Do We Need A Symbol To Unite ALL JATS..

[jagmohan]

Dear All,

Most communities in the world have something common to identify with. All religions have a particular symbol that helps people rally behind it. Even the different sects of Hinduism: Buddhists, Jainis & Sikhs have been succesful in charting their own path by breaking away from main stream Hinduism and are having their own symbols. I think Guru Nanak Dev Ji was a very smart and far sighted thinker and the Tenth Guru, Guru Govind Singh Ji realised that in order to optimise the communities strength he needed to do something different. That's why you had the Guru declare "Guru Manyo Granth" and the five symbols of Sikhism.

Even the Moslems all over the world identify themselves with the Holy Koran and nothing else. There is some problem with the Shias though but they too rally behind the Holy Koran.

I feel we as a community lack a common symbol. This point was briefly touched upon during the Second Mumbai Jat Meet. I feel that we JATS should have such a symbol so that the whole community can rally behind and unite together. The symbol could be a place. The Sikhs have their Gurudwaras but we don't have anything. JATS hardly go to a Mandir and it is actually hilarious to see a JAT praying. He just can't do so because we weren't brought up like that. Though Arya Samaj Movement did a lot of good but still it did not leave us with that 'One Symbol', to which we could be subservient.

Do the members feel that we should have a symbol like that or is it OK to be the way it is, each one to his own.

This is a very serious topic and I would request members to please give their considered opinion after taking into account all aspects. Let us see what we feel.

Regards,

JS Malik

[rkumar]

Having a Jat symbol is a great idea. This has to be something which every Jat can keep/ display with ease. It has to be something very practical like;

1. Snake shape bangle ( representing Lord Shiva)
2. Snake shaped Lathi
3. Snake shaped Bajuband for Jat women.

I am sure members will now come out with some more creative ideas...

RK^2

[devdahiya]

Jagmohan sir, idea is very good but i will need some time to deliberate on the issue. Need to scratch my head really. Will post my thoughts shortly. Great idea but any thing we propose need to be in line with present times because in older times carrying bigger things like LUTHH or TALWAR was not a problem but in present day/in future, such like things would be a big problem. Anyway i will have my say on this important issue.

[satyakarwasra]

I don't know of an idea like this being used anywhere in our community. There has to be something to wake us up. It is already happening in many communities. But it just won't work for us in straightforward manner. It will need some creative approach to spread it out among the community

[sejwaldeepak]

Dear Col. Saheb,


It will be a great achievment for JATs .

As per my views , we can make a JAT Mahasabha in all over world which will operate from different locations with registered branch offices.

Every JAT personel has to come in branch office and register his name along with all the family members and we have to issue a identity card to them like Voter ID, License etc. which contains complete details of the particular person, like name , father name , mother's name (we can also put Grand Father's for better reference), DOB, Location , Nationality, Marital Status ( Very Imp. Can be used for Matrimonial purpose) .

This Identity Card will be very helpful to all registered members . Identity Card holder can walk to our branch office for any consultancy like Education Related Issue, Marriage purpose, For Higher Studies in India and Aboard, Our Farmers brothers can also come for any problem facing in our villages and Development related queries .

We can do such kind of things with the help of this JAT Mahasabha and i am very much sure it will be a wonderful gift for our Next Generation.

[dahiyarules]

I have a suggestion: Dhoti, Kurta, Khandua and latth. Put all these together. And You have a Jat symobol.

And if you think this doesnt include the women, listen to this. Tayis are supposed to wash the Dhoti, Kurta and Khandua after Taus mss it up, and the Tau uses the latth to reprogram the Tayi once in a while.

[mukeshkumar007]

Having a Jat symbol is a great idea. This has to be something which every Jat can keep/ display with ease. It has to be something very practical like;

1. Snake shape bangle ( representing Lord Shiva)
2. Snake shaped Lathi
3. Snake shaped Bajuband for Jat women.

RK^2

Although I am unable to get that how can a symbol help us (JAT) to come together?
BTW JHELI might be a good symbol , as JAT in rajasthan use it during the rally/shaba.

[devdahiya]

I have a suggestion: Dhoti, Kurta, Khandua and latth. Put all these together. And You have a Jat symobol.

And if you think this doesnt include the women, listen to this. Tayis are supposed to wash the Dhoti, Kurta and Khandua after Taus mss it up, and the Tau uses the latth to reprogram the Tayi once in a while.



Sumit bhai ya bhi kasooti kahi. Ha...ha...ha. You have a great sense of humor man. Keep it up! I am still laughing................REPROGRAM...ha...ha...ha.

[raj2rif]

Dear Col Jagmohan,

I think it is a nice idea, however, there are certain issues which needs to be discussed, to arrive at the afficacy of a symbol and its practicability in the welfare of the community.

1. Would the symbol means dividing the already fractured Hindu/Indian Community? We have so many Sikhs, Jains, Gujratis, Punjabis, Biharis etc. but we have very few Indians. If the purpose of symbol is to rally the entire community for one single purpose (uniting it for a single cause) then it becomes more or like and election symbol (as saffron goes with Jansangh or now BJP/RSS) To this extent we already had white and green cap instituted by the Bhartiya Kisan Union under Mr. Mohinder Singh Tikait.

2. What should symbol indicate? Should it define the community "JAT"? What benefit do we think we can get out of it? Is the word "JAT" derives any positives from other communities in today's circumstances? As per my experience "JAT" does not carry a very positive impression among other communities because of our Image as had been projected over the years. Other communites might use the symbol to further tarnish our image. I remember Ch. Charan Singh was projected as castist by other political parties, while as CM of UP he changed names of the Jat College Baraut to Janta College Baraut, and Kurmi Kshatriya College Itawa to Karm Kshetra College Itawa.

3. Do we have any political agenda to form a all JAT party? In that case a symbol of "Hal and Gun" in crossing each other would be a good idea, as it identifies the two professions "Farming and Soldiering" most popular among our community.

4. I think we need to have a very valuable cause dear to each and every member of the community whether young or old, educated or not so educated, urban or rural. The only cause that can attract each of these categories is the economic upliftment.

The thread "Rohtak Rural Convention" has been lost in wilderness and I really don't know what is happening to the October 2006 meet? I guess, making the farm products distribution centralized under the rural population thus taking out the middlemen, would be a good enough cause not only to Unite the Jat community but entire rural population. Politically, we all by ourselves may not achieve any thing worthwhile, because we are too few in a democratic system. To me becoming a leader among the rural population and taking all of them along with us would be a great idea to have a strong "SAY" at state and national level. We need to go out and reach out to other communities and obliterate the bad image that they carry about us.

Regarding helping our own community, we need to concentrate on small projects, like NAJC to help our younger people achieve higher education.

Purely on symbol issue, (that is once we had established the need for it) it may be easy to unite the younger people rather than older people. Actually, many a times as to what should be the symbol itself may lead to the division of the community.

[vinodks]

Tavathiaji,

You said it right. I don't think a symbol is necessary to unite a community. Examples, the symbols in other religion, like sikhs were originated when there was some kind of revolution or mass-movement in society and there was deep sentiment associated with it. It's difficult to have such a movement in modern age and unification is not done by symbols, it "the idea" that unites people, symbol is just superficial image of that. Any decision taken in Jatland about such serious issues is as short-lived as that thread, which is mot more than 2 weeks, because Jatland is representative of only 1000 Jats out of millions... but it's good to discuss... may be we can come up with universal Jatmahasabha that Deepak talked about, where every member will be given a ID card that would define his existence as Jat:)...

If we decide to have a symbol, I think we can have the symbol of Jatland... because any symbol decided here is applicable to people here only... if you decide have a place as symbol, I am going to fight for Sarangpur... and there will be some blood spilling over symbol of unification:-))...

I would say, en symbol-wymbol mein kuchh nahi rakha, lets keep doing our duties for community in manner which fits best to us as individuals...

-vinod

Dear Col Jagmohan,
Actually, many a times as to what should be the symbol itself may lead to the division of the community.

[positivelook]

What we get from Jat Symbol is a big question here and how we can unite Jats( in my views this is very complicated) by a symbol. Sabse pehle toh ek symbol par sab raaji karne padenge which in my views is a impossible thiong to do cos Jats kabhi ek baat sehmat hotte nahi. Baakki Rahi baat Tavathia Sir waali Jaat Party banane kee toh sir Woh bhee bahut tedhi kheer hai Jaisa kee aapne Rural Convention kee orrr ishaara karke kaha hai. But let me tell u when Rural Convention idea was given by Mukesh and all supported than we said we can organise it in rohtak and we are still thinking that we will do it if all members come forward in support and they really want to organise such a meet.
Baaki Symbol kee baat i dont think its going to work out cos Jats Are fighters and they fight with each other also. Baaki Jisne bhee ye thread shuru kiya usne kuch socha hoga agar bhai koi symbol par saare Jatlander bhee Raaji hogyan jaton ki toh baat door hai toh humne bhee bata diyo hum bhee sehmat ho jyange.

Abhimanyu Phougat

[jagmohan]

Dear All,

Thanks for the views. I feel I have not been able to explain the real meaning of ‘Symbol’ or may be members misunderstood. Let me give an example or two to make myself clearer.

We all know the following Satya Sai Baba of Puttuparti attracts worldwide. How it happened? Why was he able to attract even Presidents & PMs towards his ‘Sangathan’? Has he not used the reverence he attracts or commands for the betterment of humanity? (By the way I am no Sai Bhakth). But one thing that he has achieved is ‘Networking’ and those of you who are in the know will agree that being a Sai follower has tremendous advantages.

Then see the Jainis. They all have only few Jain Mandirs where every Jain must visit or visits regularly. They all contribute towards common causes and are one of the richest communities.

The Dalits have their Ambedkar.

See the Refugees. They are these ‘Jai Mata Di’ walas. They identify themselves with that Goddess. Say ‘Jai Mata Di’ and a refugee will give you instant discount.

May be by a JAT Symbol I meant ‘Symbolism’. Like you have the Moslems revering Mecca. They don’t raise any objections to the teaching of the Prophet.

It was this symbolism that I meant. Because we JATS hardly believe in anything else except our own selves or reprogramming the TAI. An identity card can’t be a symbol to which we can identify with. We need something that is capable of uniting all JATS together without the fear of being exploited. May be a place that was important to us in the past or may be some ‘Granth’ or ‘Book’. The sole aim: to unite us as a community. I don’t believe that by making the community stronger we would be making the nation weaker.

May be some place where a JAT can bow in submission. I know there is no place like that but is there a need? Is it possible?

Regards,

JS Malik

[deepakchoudhry]

How about Chacha Choudhry...He is such an amiable and a witty character.
:)

On a serious note, Symobol for a "RACE" always brings negative images, so bear that in mind.

[lucky]

y think of symbol having snake. i think firsts jats of aryan race. then we are shatriyas then farmers. so think of symbols which relate to one of these things. farming and fighing for country is our main work from starting. may be a colarge of sun and farm would be good idea.:rolleyes:
thats all my brain is telling me.:rolleyes: to do

[sampuran]

A Symbol For Jats

The suggestion by Colonel Sh Malik is very good. A symbol provides instant familiarity with a group or organization or a cause. It evokes strong feelings of togetherness, brotherhood, oneness, safety, security etc.

Today Jat society is in transition and turmoil. Starting from family upwards, there are fissures at every level. Traditional trust amongst people and usual bonds are breaking down. Signs of men – women going astray are all around. But that is also the case with all other communities. Over the surface this tendency seems less prevalent amongst muslims. But it could be deceptive. That is the reason the clergy and ideologues are trying to convert them into Arabians, by looks and behaviour. More they suppress individual choices and freedom; more people will learn the true nature of this ideology and leave.

Generally peoples’ sense of togetherness increases in the event of an external threat. As of today, there is no organized oppression of Jats, neither is there any threat. Traditionally, zamidara and war-fighting (kshtriya dharma) have been Jats’ bastion. Today both are no longer economically attractive, especially the former due to small land holdings. So people are stepping out of their agrarian habits and writing personal success stories in all fields and professions. But the numbers are not as significant as the total population of the community. They are a small trickle. For substantial upliftment in the overall standard of living majority of the community members, the movement has to be like a flood-flow. That can be achieved only through members joining hands and helping each other out.

A symbol can lead to exactly that kind of co-operation. It should convey the hereditary qualities of Jats, yet be futuristic to be relevant in the times to come. The symbol should be able to command devotion and respect from across regions and continents. It should appeal, at least, to the majority, if not all.

Sh VP Singh opened a pandora’s box with the Mandal commission. Not that, backward and oppressed sections of the population do not deserve affirmative action. But the way politicians used this issue, social atmosphere all over India became detestable. It continues to remain so. In fact, the divides and dislikes have only increased. Every community wants to be called backward. Everyone fears the future. The origin of this topic also seems to be a result of a deep seated fear of uncertainty.

Yes, competition is too damn tough in every field. But the despicable degradation in community pride and self-respect is a serious issue for national well being. While communities fight each other fiercely in a no holds barred war bereft of morals or principles, most of the spoils are still being pocketed by individuals who have clout and don’t need affirmative action in the first place. Result widening gap between the rich and the poor. While no particular community gains as an entity. Bihar’s case is a classic story. Yadavs claim that 15 years of Lalloo (mis)rule gave them pride. They could walk with heads held high. But Bihar as a state did not gain an inch in any index of Human development. The Yadavs migration from the state only increased, even if they had to live like poultry chicken in filthy shanties of jhuggi colonies. Bihar is more miserable, more unsafe, more potholed and poorer. Who gained ? Nobody. But caste politics still dictates public discourse. And how do the Yadavs feel when Lalloo is no more in powerful ? Has the pride been replaced by old feeling of vulnerability ?

When we talk of community self-respect and pride, an incident from early days of independence is worth recollecting. The Jews and Parsis were invited to present their case for inclusion into Minorities as per Constitution. They refused to be addressed as minorities. Their reasoning was that in thousand years of their existence in India, no discrimination or oppression was ever experienced. In fact, India is the only country in the world where the Jews were not troubled. These two are the most miniscule of the communities in India but I have not yet heard any of them dying of poverty or committing suicide because of lack of food.

The threats to India’s integrity are far more today than there were soon after independence. Weak, selfish and morally corrupt governments at all levels, terrorism and insurgency, renewed upsurge of monotheists and foreign ideologies, sharpening caste divides, naxalism and general break up of social order due individual immorality are all colossal challenges. In this scenario Jats can organise themselves aiming to win the rat race of the communities. Most probably our situation, in the end, will be like the Yadavs of Bihar; false pride. For in a no holds barred rat race, everyone will be a loser. When the whole ship sinks it does not matter who is at the top of the mast.

So the symbol should not be for short term political or sundry gains. Otherwise Jats shall remain cocooned and backward like the vote banks of Congress or Mayawatis or Lalloos. When the aims are narrow, like so many well intentioned movements, this endeavour too shall die an untimely death.

The short term objective can be to unite and uplift the community, but the ultimate aim has to be universal and global. Some time back Sh RK Kalkhande had written in the forum that all the present day conflicts in the world have their origin in the Mahabharat war. Let me modify it to say that the root of the problems is the tussle between the Good and the Evil. Good is universal and Evil is restricted, selfish.

The character and qualities of a Jat stand for the well being of the whole of human race and natural world. They are universally applicable.

What is that symbol that speaks of the whole humanity ? What is that symbol that does not discriminate because of colour, race or birth ? What is that which was present yesterday and will not lose its relevance tomorrow ? What is that which is so very familiar to the Jats ?

Veda is the symbol and Arya Samaaj the structure. Did not the world (and Jats) slip into darkness because they forgot the Veda ? Did not Arya Samaaj movement manage to stop the rot within the Jat community ? Have we not forgotten its message so soon ? Is that not the reason for repeated slide into oblivion ?

The symbol is still there, strong and unblemished as ever. Only we have pushed it out of sight. Apart from other duties, reading and spreading of Vedic knowledge was one common duty of all the varnas. When most of the people forgot this out of shear laziness, and later ignorance, downfall was only expected. Lest people misunderstand, let me clarify that there is no magic in ‘vedic adhayayan’. It just re-emphasises those things that are universally applicable and good for the humanity.

In growth lies progress, and downfall in stagnation. Let Jats aim to provide much needed community leadership to India and the world. In everyone’s well being lies their benefit. Let the Jat parivar grow. In 18th century, the people of Kashmir wanted to reconvert to Hinduism, but the Pandas of Banaras remained exclusivist. Today Kashmir is the frontline of Islamic aggression over India. Whoever lives by the defined qualities is a Jat, irrespective of his caste or colour by birth. Everyone who starts living by the Vedic principles should be welcome in the Jat fold. Are not Rao, Verma, Naidu, Kataria, Malik etc so common surnames outside the Jat heartland. If a lost tribe of Jews can be discovered in the jungles of Nagaland, Jats may also be existing over much of the globe. Should not their welfare, and those of others be aJat’s concern ?

We have all the ingredients, who will pick up the challenge ?

[sansanwalamit]

I think Peacock or a Peacock's feather will be a good symbol in my opinion. I have never visited a Jat village where I didnt come across a Peacock. Jats have always repected these birds and many Jat houses have their feathers (collected one by one) in thier house. These birds are also associated with our Lord Krishna.
I also remember reading long time back in Madame H. P. Blavatsky's account of kingdom of Bharatpur that the local people (Jats) revered these birds, and they thought of these birds as their saviours, locals also believed that they even helped them in their wars with the British and others.
And simply a Peacock or a Peacock feather is one of the most beautiful things to look at, so I think it will be a great symbol.

[jagmohan]

What is that symbol that speaks of the whole humanity ? What is that symbol that does not discriminate because of colour, race or birth ? What is that which was present yesterday and will not lose its relevance tomorrow ? What is that which is so very familiar to the Jats ?

Veda is the symbol and Arya Samaaj the structure. Did not the world (and Jats) slip into darkness because they forgot the Veda ? Did not Arya Samaaj movement manage to stop the rot within the Jat community ? Have we not forgotten its message so soon ? Is that not the reason for repeated slide into oblivion ?

The symbol is still there, strong and unblemished as ever. Only we have pushed it out of sight. Apart from other duties, reading and spreading of Vedic knowledge was one common duty of all the varnas. When most of the people forgot this out of shear laziness, and later ignorance, downfall was only expected. Lest people misunderstand, let me clarify that there is no magic in ‘vedic adhayayan’. It just re-emphasises those things that are universally applicable and good for the humanity.

In growth lies progress, and downfall in stagnation. Let Jats aim to provide much needed community leadership to India and the world. In everyone’s well being lies their benefit. Let the Jat parivar grow. In 18th century, the people of Kashmir wanted to reconvert to Hinduism, but the Pandas of Banaras remained exclusivist. Today Kashmir is the frontline of Islamic aggression over India. Whoever lives by the defined qualities is a Jat, irrespective of his caste or colour by birth. Everyone who starts living by the Vedic principles should be welcome in the Jat fold. Are not Rao, Verma, Naidu, Kataria, Malik etc so common surnames outside the Jat heartland. If a lost tribe of Jews can be discovered in the jungles of Nagaland, Jats may also be existing over much of the globe. Should not their welfare, and those of others be aJat’s concern ?

Dear Sampuran,

Thanks for your well considered thoughts bringing out almost all issues that stare our community in the face.

It seems that members are not much interested in debating this issue of a universal symbol that can unite all JATS. You are 100% right that at one point in History 'Arya Samaj' did unite us but after independence the movement seems to have lost pace. May be we didn't have a common enemy to fight, as you have rightly mentioned.

However, the biggest problem that we face today is anonymity. As urbanisation grows and the proud villages of yesteryears are engulfed by colonies and slums, the proud JATS are just disappearing in the concrete jungle, a jungle they are unequipped to survive in.

We need someone, something, a SYMBOL that can unite us. May be an annual pilgrimage to 'some place', to which only JATS identify with. We need to again occupy the rightful place in society.

Regards,

JS Malik

[devdahiya]

Jagmohan sir, A stone can Unite and a crown can divide.Question is do we want to live with generality or Wit uniqueness. I will go for later. Symbol can be a monument, A great community hero, A tree, A bird...anything. We are de-generating as a kaum at a rate faster than we might have imagined. I will always advocate a symbol for prosperity and unity.[ Exclusively my views please]

[jagmohan]

Bhai Dev,

That is what I have been trying to find out. Is there something that can unite us as a community? It could be any one of the things you mentioned. The aim is only one. TO UNITE US ALL. Like you mentioned that even a stone can unite. What is that one symbol is all I am trying to find out.

I don't think we JATS have had a symbol like others. Even the Parsis have it and display it proudly, even as a sticker on their cars. The intention is simple. To be subservient to that one symbol where you surrender your ego and contribute for the community: with Tan, Mann and Dhan. That is the symbol I am talking about. I also know 'Milna Mushkil Se' but then is there a need or not?

Regards,

JS Malik

[devdahiya]

Jagmohan sir i suggest a JAT AASTHHA MANDIR at a central location, may be in Haryana, Rajasthan or Western UP. May be a TAU-TAI mandir.

[sampuran]

However, the biggest problem that we face today is anonymity. As urbanisation grows and the proud villages of yesteryears are engulfed by colonies and slums, the proud JATS are just disappearing in the concrete jungle, a jungle they are unequipped to survive in.

We need someone, something, a SYMBOL that can unite us. May be an annual pilgrimage to 'some place', to which only JATS identify with. We need to again occupy the rightful place in society.

Regards,
JS Malik

The fear of anonimity, of being lost in the vast world, fear of being just a miniscule part of humanity....... The effect is what Bhai Dev Dahiya says, desire to be unique. Because uniqueness givs us a feeling of being special, different, better than millions of others, a boost to our egos.

Modern societies are truly cosmopolitan. Whereever they are not, they degenerate. The typical example is of what happened to Afghanistan under the Taliban. The country and society went into a morass because misguided fools tried to bring in uniformity, that too a fanatic and opressive one. But whereever we have inflow and outflow of new ideas, cultures, newer things get synthesised and created.
Man is born to lead. All have an inborn desire to be at the top, in some manner or the other. If we dont get it in conventional social or political platforms, we make sundry clubs and societies. At that level, I would say there is nothing wrong in striving for such a mechanism which satisfies our natural desires without being affront to social customs and laws.

However, pitching for uniqueness based upon social divisions or caste considerations has inherent dangers. Today it is an innocent desire to feel special, a desire for self-pride. Tomorrow it may turn into false-ego, Ghamand, and fights with other such groups. That will be bad.

We already have too many regional, caste and religious divisions within Indian society. Should we, even unwittingly, sharpen those divides ?

Perhaps my earlier reply has not been fully understood. Jats have a glorious and GLOBAL past. They have believed only in virtous living, not so much on oonch-neech based on caste/birth/colour. From where did we acquire these qualities ? The Vedas, of course. And when we kept those teachings aside, the downfall started. Arya Samaaj temporarily stopped it, but again we went into a slide. Simply because people again forgot the message but concentrated on the persona of Dayanand Saraswati. Today Arya Samaajis also interact within their castes.
The point is, a symbol of unity should not be narrow in its appeal and applicability. It should stand for the highest of the virtues and goals. That is spirituality. India has more linguistic and cultural diversity than Europe, but it survive as an entity, because of spirituality. Whereas, in Europe you have smallest of the ethinc groups in tiny countries trying to Fight for a seperate identity. Because their spirituality was crushed by the church and then by islam.
And Indian spirituality is derived from the vedas. Their teachings have stood the test of time and innumerable attempts at destruction.

Jats can proudly wear their identity on their chests. But should remember that it should not become a case of only born Jats, nobody else. Every Indian who has roots in kshtriya traditions is a Jat. Anyone outside who decides to live by the Vedic teachings should also be welcomed into the fold. Finally, as so many evidences in "The missing Links..." point Jats to be the original practioners of Vedas and residents of the whole earth, We have a duty to spread this culture.