Roots of Jats in the World

[sktewatia]

In ancient history, there were clans or tribes, who's members claimed descent from a common ancestor. This tribal name became the Gotra in Indian contest and is called a sur-name in rest of Eurasia. However, both gotra and jati in India originally are a variation of jat/goth only.

Jati means sub-jat i.e. you r jat it's ok but which Jat r u? whether Tomar, Dahiya, Dalal, .. etc. Here among Jats all jatis (clans) used 2 b equal like modern jat goths/gotras, where no one claims superiority over others unlike Rajputs. Every jat is proud of his jati i.e. clan but at the same time treats other clan of jats also with equal dignity. So proud of their clan jats are that they never changed their clan for thousands of years inspite of variations in languages, places, religions, their deadly friendly and deadly enemical alliances, their social, economic n political status etc. This word jati was later misused and mis-enterpreted by later pauranic people for their benefit as were vedas varna vyavastha were misused by them. There is Hyme in Rigveda "I'm poet, My father is physician, my mother grinds corn...etc"

Similar is with Goth n gotra is sanskritised form of Goth. It again means U r Goth/Got (means Jat) is o.k. but which Got r u? whether Bisla, Brar, Sandhu,..? this sub-got was called gotra. I've seen jats speaking many languages but all used the word got and not gotra for their clan name. These two names Jat and Got are found with little variations all over world in general and Eurasia in particular.

Many times in history a single tribe became so powerful that it gave its name to many land, areas, cities, towns, rivers, mountains, countries, oceans, seas and also to other tribes. When a particular tribe was in supremacy, all the population under its control, was called after the supreme tribe and such cohesion of people of different tribes, has been aptly called "Confedracy of Tribes". These tribal confedracy has given their names to various "castes" in India. For example when Gurj tribe was in power in 10th century AD in north India gave its name to cities like Gujrat/Gujranwala in Pakistan, areas like Gujrat state in India, and finally became a seperate caste- Gujar/Gujjar/Gurjar in India. Similar is the position of Tur/Turk, Mukhal/Mughal, Arya etc.

[sktewatia]

Now all these tribes of European n Asian mainland, are roiginally tribes of Jats appear to be the most ancient confedracy of tribes as it is, not only most prominently mentioned in the Rigveda, but it has left its mark on many areas of Eurasia. And all these tribes are still represented in the present Jat population in South Asia.

[sktewatia]

The word, Jata, perhaps originally one tribe, means "king/leader". Similar is meaning of all the clans of Jats. Other meanings are "The Sun, The Moon, The Fire, The Thunder, Top, High, Commander, Brave, Mighty.....etc." Many people under ignorance or otherwise gave, the wrong meaning of Jata, as born"

[sktewatia]

When Rigveda talks of five Jats/Jatas, they are taken as five people or tribes of people, and the word is taken as synonymous of Jana (people).

But the difficulty arises when Jata, Jana, Janyam are found together in the same line. For example, Rigveda 532/11 says: "Eknnutva satpati punchjanya jat, shrinomiyashans janeshu". Here Indra is called True Lord (Satpati) or Five People (Panchjanya), Whose praise is heard among the people and masses (Janeshu) But he is also called Jat here; and hence normally given meaning is an applicable here. Henec Indra is Jat/Jata (king) or five people.

Again Rigveda 10/53/5 says :"Panch janah mumhotram jashuntam go-jata"
Here also, the five people are called "Go-jata i.e. kings of earth".

Rigveda 2/40/1 called Soma and Pusan, as Kings of Earth, protectors of the land ("Jatau Vishvasya Bhuvnasya Gopau"). Many times Indra is called "Jatau-Jatan" i.e. King of Kings. He is also called "Adhi-Jat" which rendered as supreme king even by swami Dayananda who does not find any history in Rigveda (see his commentry on rigveda 10/10/4; 10/153/2). Agni is called ("Itah Jat vishvam") i.e. King of all in Rigveda 1/98/1. There are many references to which means "Indra, the Jat is worshipped"

[sktewatia]

Now Jat is also modified as Sa-Jat and Su-Jat in rigveda. Here Sa-Jat means "with fellow Jats" and Su-Jat means "Noble Jat". When Indra is elected as Adhi-Jat and Jatau-Jatan, the fellow Jats (Kings) are expected to call on him with gifts and this recorded in Atharv Veda (3/4/3) "Achchhatva yantu havinah Sah-jat" means "may the fellow Jats come calling into thee"

Atharv veda 1/9/3 further says about Indra that "let him sit in superiority over his fellow Jats". R.N.Dandekar has opined that these (Jats here) were members of aristocracy who alone were rntitled to elect king, and be elected as King.

[sktewatia]

European Name - Indian Jat Name

(de) Gaule - Gaul(an)
(de) Benville - Beniwal
Ander(son) - Andar/Ainder
Aurer - Aurer/Orar
Ahlwardt - Ahlawat
Dabs - Dabas
Dahl - Dahal
Brahm - Brahm(an)
Alan - Aulan
Baines/Baynes - Bains
Bissel - Bisla
Bal - Bal
Burr - Bura
Cath/Gatti - Katt(Gath)wal
Cook/Kuk - Kuk(ar)
Dam/Dammen - Dama/Dhaman
Danak/Donker - Dhankhar (Dhankar of Rigveda)
Dillon - Dhillon
Dorival - Dhariwal
Daullet - Dulat
Eng/Ang/Engal - Anga(l)
Varing/Bring - Bring
Prod - Paroda
Galt/Kelt/Celt - Galat
George - Jarj
Gill - Gill
Gode - Godha/Godara
Got/Gott/Gaut/Goth - Gat/Cut
Hall - Hala
Ola - Ola
Hood - Hooda
Jun/Junas - Jun/Joon
Kahl _ Kahl(on)/Kallan
Killick - Kalkil/Kilkal
Klar - Kalar
Korb - Kharab
Lamb/Lambe - Lamba
Latmar - Lathmar
Latter - Lather
Laur - Lohar/Lohvar (founded lahore)
Legg - Legh
Luther - Luther
More/Moor - Mor/Maur(ya) of Asoka's fame
Mack - Machher
Madden - Madan
Mader - Maderna
Mander - Manda/Mander
Mann - Mann
Mayer/Meir - Mayer
Nash - Nassar (sanskrit- Naisya)
Neubauer - Nauber/Nohwar
Noel - Nal
Noon - Nun
Nutt - Nat
Orr - Orrer/Aurer
Piggott - Phogat
Parrott - Paroda
Reid/Read - Riad/Riar
Rose - Roj/Raj
Dodd - Dodd(wal) of Maoo village of Baghpat in UP
Dood - Dudi
Todd - Tudi
Sapir - Sapra
Sandu - Sandhu/Sindhu
Schhiller/Chhiller - Chhiller
Seymour/Seamer - Simar
Shore - Shor/Shoran/Sheoran
Tatran - Tatran
Thacker - Thakkar/Thakran
Teut(on) - Teotia/Tewatia
Torr - Tur (The Turanians)

This list can be similarly multiplied to any length. This 100% commonality of tribal names presupposes common origins and this can not be later than 1000 BC.

[sktewatia]

According to J.F. Hewitt, the word 'Gut' means bull. The Persian-English Dictionary defines Gut/Guta, 'as great' or grand. The Indian works define Jat as meaning 'King'. Panini defines it as signifying a Samgha or union/federation. Jit/Jata in Hindi n Gutt in Punjabi are even today used by the jats, as signifying long hair and beards, like the present Sikh Jats. It is not for nothing that Deva Samhita calls the Jats as the first rulers of earth, whose heroic exploits and glorious history, was deliberately kept concealed. Tall and tough, the Jats have a near physical homogeneity among themselves"
With their innate antagonism to oppression,the jats have the principles of freedom and equality, the open country air and movements, in their very blood. Thier toughness of body is symbolised in the proverb that says that;''Consider a jat to be dead only when the thirteenth-day rites are over.''

[sktewatia]

the Sindh(Sindhu/sandhu/Sidhu) tribe gave its own name to Sindh river/Sindh State/Sindh/hind ocean, and ultimately to whole of India-Sindhu sthan or Hindu-sthan. There was a kang-nadu and Bana-nadu in south India-names after Kang(Sanskrit Kanka) and Bana tribes. there was singhal dweepa in Indua-Delta and also present Sri Lanka (Simhal Dweepa). kERAL is named after Kera/Khera tribe, now a days called kher, which becomes khera in maharashtra, just as Mor becomes More, Khar becomes Khare, Antal becomes Antule, due to typical marathi suffix. Orissa/Orda-isha, is named after odra tribe, oder in Europe and odran in India. Ancient Bihar was Anga and ancient Bengal was Vanga/Banga-named after Angal (the english angel/angle people) and Bang/Bangal tribes respectively. Saurastra is named after Surath(sorath) tribe, and Haryana is named after Hari tribe-mentioned in Rigveda as Hari/Harian (Hary potter) and the country is called Haryanka (Ajatsatru n Bimbisara were from this dynasty). Kashmir is named after Kashyap tribe(which gave its name to Caspian Sea also) and Andhra is named after Aindhra(/andre/andar) tribe of rigveda fame whose fellow tribes men are called Ander(son) in Europe.

[sktewatia]

West Asian/Iranian- Greek- Chinese-Central Asian- Old Indian- Present Jat

Abar - Abar/avar- ..... - Avar - Abhira? - Abara in Pak
.... - ........ - ..... - Allan - Aila?Ailavat- Ailavat
Andar - Andar
...... - Antai - ..... - Anta -...... - Antal
Airya - Ariani/Ari - .... -...... - Arya - Arya
Ashkenaz - Asiani - ......- Asi-Asika/Risika-Asiag/Sihag/Suhag
...... .... .... .... Attri - Attri
...... Uruk? ... Uluk - Aulakh

will cntinue: source BS Dahiya, "Jats, the Ancient Rulers"

[devdahiya]

Thanks for such a nice information dear. You have really taken pains. Greatful to you. Keep it up !

[sktewatia]

western calender is bit misrepresented/misunderstood indian calender
no need to start a year from january. it all starts from march or nearby like indian saka n vikram calender both started by jat rulers kanishka n vikramaditya.

even modern cristien calender is same as these are.

start from march which means MARCH means begins. n from march (1)count: April(2); May(3); June(4); July(5); August(6); September means septa means 7, saat in hindi; october means octa means 8, aath in hindi, utth in punjabi; november means 9, nau in hindi and naun in punjabi; december means deci(mal), deca(gram) means 10, dus in hindi n daa in punjabi; january 11 and february the last and 12th.

the february was the last n 12th month can be said by all common sense because its here we adjust the remaining odd days after 4 years i.e. leap year. usually n e common sense person will adjust the remaining undivisible figure in the last only n not in the beginning or 2nd month.

n had it begun with january then its absurd 2 count 7-10 i.e. (sept to december) from it; which is rather 9-12, total absurd as it is 2day. it makes sense only when this calender begins with march as said earlier.


my opinion is same not only with numerals but english n all european alphabets also seem 2 be derived from the indian ones.

[rkumar]

western calender is bit misrepresented/misunderstood indian calender
no need to start a year from january. it all starts from march or nearby like indian saka n vikram calender both started by jat rulers kanishka n vikramaditya.

even modern cristien calender is same as these are.

start from march which means MARCH means begins. n from march (1)count: April(2); May(3); June(4); July(5); August(6); September means septa means 7, saat in hindi; october means octa means 8, aath in hindi, utth in punjabi; november means 9, nau in hindi and naun in punjabi; december means deci(mal), deca(gram) means 10, dus in hindi n daa in punjabi; january 11 and february the last and 12th.

the february was the last n 12th month can be said by all common sense because its here we adjust the remaining odd days after 4 years i.e. leap year. usually n e common sense person will adjust the remaining undivisible figure in the last only n not in the beginning or 2nd month.

n had it begun with january then its absurd 2 count 7-10 i.e. (sept to december) from it; which is rather 9-12, total absurd as it is 2day. it makes sense only when this calender begins with march as said earlier.


my opinion is same not only with numerals but english n all european alphabets also seem 2 be derived from the indian ones.

Sepetember onward to samajh me aa gaya Tewatia Sahab. lekin;

2nd month was called April and not Duember ?
3rd Month was called May and not Trember ?
4th month was called May, and not Chathurhember ?
.....etc..

RK^2

[arunshamli]

Sepetember onward to samajh me aa gaya Tewatia Sahab. lekin;

2nd month was called April and not Duember ?
3rd Month was called May and not Trember ?
4th month was called May, and not Chathurhember ?
.....etc..

RK^2
arr ye bhee nahi samajh me aaya ke kuch naam hindi me q hai and kuch English me q hai...like (March)....

mujhe toh sirf september se december tak samajh me aaya baki kuch nahi aaya.....

[sktewatia]

ye hi to jat itihaas ki kahani hai. koi kitna nasht kar lega. apradhi koi kitna bhi chatur ho lekin koi na koi proof to chhod hi jata hai.

"their fortunes rose so quickly n so high within such a short period" said one historian about the jat rebellion in braj. "then 2 understand the present day jats v must go back far deep into their history"

n hence jat itihaas began frm surajmal n smtimes earlier.

[sktewatia]

heatedly means heartiestly. really missed u!

[sktewatia]

aap ko arun to samajh aya ho ga, lekin apne goth/got/gotra samajh aaye? apne aas pass ke gaon samajh aaye? Elam, Batana, Bagha, Kharkhoda, Susana,.... .

apne saare goton ka hindi/sanskrit me anuvaad kar ke dikhao?

me aap ko guru man lunga yadi aap khali in goton ka hindi anuvaad kar ke dikha do jo bees/baice maine upper likhe hain.


ola ke baarish me ola pade the?

mor (maurya asoka) ke mor paale the?

hood (robin hood) ke hood ne udao tha?

u can ask hooda n ola. they can answere first name, not however, so easily, the last one!!!

if at all they do so I can answere better then them.

Jat was a universal ruler. why r u limiting their area?

just india?


where is indus? whr is sandhu/sindhu? the name givers 2 this country n indian ocean?

However, nothing personal against u but my brother please wake up. u've 2 rule the world n not india alone!

[arunshamli]

aap ko arun to samajh aya ho ga, lekin apne goth/got/gotra samajh aaye? apne aas pass ke gaon samajh aaye? Elam, Batana, Bagha, Kharkhoda, Susana,.... .

apne saare goton ka hindi/sanskrit me anuvaad kar ke dikhao?

me aap ko guru man lunga yadi aap khali in goton ka hindi anuvaad kar ke dikha do jo bees/baice maine upper likhe hain.

Jat was a universal ruler. why r u limiting their area?

just india?

where is indus? whr is sandhu/sindhu? the name givers 2 this country n indian ocean?

However, nothing personal against u but my brother please wake up. u've 2 rule the world n not india alone!


Tewatia ji Namskar,

1. Mujhe aapki english bilkul samajh me nahi aati hai...the kind of language you use is used by aajkal ke teenagers. Since you are a scientist and a historian, this language is not expected from you

"you" and "u" are not same, "r" and "are" are not same...."n" and "and" are not the same...."2" and "to" are different....I hope you got the point.

I do not read many of your messages, just because I hate these shortcuts...
waise toh aapki puri theory hee similer sounding words pe based hai, but I still request you not to use these shortcuts...aage aapki marji bade bhai/uncle.


2. aapki knowledge and hard work dekhkar mujhe nahi lagta hai mai aapke sath debate kar sakta hoon. you are researching the history and publishing it in a public forum. everyone read them. padhne ke bad kuch doubts bhee aate hain ...I asked a simple question...... aapke pas jawab nahi hai toh koi bat nahi.....But I DO NOT WANT A DEBATE.


3. as far as the name of the places is concerned, you must understand that not every vilage/city/town name have a meaning. and it is a well known fact ki hamare yahan 1000+ years tak muslim and 200+ years tak british the. so I would not be surprized if we see some non Hindi or non Sanskrit name.

Mere gaon ka nam Bhaneda hai...mujhe toh iska meaning bhee nahi pata hai....Shayad aapko pata hoga...



4. Hindi is hardly a few hundred year old language and all these names you are asking existed before Hindi.

[narenderkharb]

It is good to see your post Arun
What Tewatia ji wants to points out is the wast geographical spread of this race known as jats,juts.gut etc.
I was hoping critical questions from you why we think they lived Indus valley,Turkmenistan,Scandinavia etc .
I expected you will pose questions and try to explain why you think we are wrong ?
Since you say you don't believe we expected why you don't?
You neither seems to assosiate jats with indus valley neither to some other place in nutshell jats with no history.Do you believe they were thrown on earth one fine morning?

Your critical questions will be highly helpful in any discussion,plz always ask your querries and proofs four our assumptions i hope this time you will respond.

PS:On a lighter note there is no harm in using your gotr these samli etc. looks good for politicians,anyway it is your personal choice don't mind my advice.

[arunshamli]

It is good to see your post Arun
What Tewatia ji wants to points out is the wast geographical spread of this race known as jats,juts.gut etc.
I was hoping critical questions from you why we think they lived Indus valley,Turkmenistan,Scandinavia etc .
I expected you will pose questions and try to explain why you think we are wrong ?
Since you say you don't believe we expected why you don't?
You neither seems to assosiate jats with indus valley neither to some other place in nutshell jats with no history.Do you believe they were thrown on earth one fine morning?

Your critical questions will be highly helpful in any discussion,plz always ask your querries and proofs four our assumptions i hope this time you will respond.

PS:On a lighter note there is no harm in using your gotr these samli etc. looks good for politicians,anyway it is your personal choice don't mind my advice.



Narander bhai,

Shamli is not my gotra, it is the name of a town. When I creatd my first email id in 1998-99, It did not let me create any id with my name and then someone suggested me to use the name of my home town. and it worked. people liked it very much. and now most of my ids are arunshamli or aurn_shamli. But let it not confuse anyone. It is just the id which is different form the name. My gotra is Baliyan( Mahendra Singh Tikait ka naam to suna hoga)

Waise ho sakta hai isko lagane se politics me entry mil jaye;)

Now coming to the point:
I do not have much information about he indus valley, so I may not be able to comment on that.

I read your post seriously and you are doing a wonderfull job. I have never said you are wrong, infact you make a lot of sense in many of your posts. I just do not agree with some of the facts made in history section. I do not like the hatred against other castes( Brahamn and Rajput), which can be clearly seen in many posts in history section. But thats a different issue not related to this post.

Tewatia Calendar:

I found the information posted by Mr. Tewatia quite interesting and I wanted to believe in it, that is why I asked the question. I wanted to follow the logic he had given about the calendar.

And my question was that Sept, Oct, Nov and Dec are fine. What about the rest of the month?

Ye toh bhai ek seedha sachcha sa question tha...isme koi agree disagree hone wali bat nahi hai....:)

[sktewatia]

Two tribes of jats were attacking roman empire one was Bal-giri n second one was Heng-giri. These two tribes had given their names to the modern countries of Bulgaria and Hungry. the modern henga (near agra, the hingnu's n kingnu's of chinese, the modern henga n kang jats) n balyan (muzoffer ngr) jats. plz read bure-bista also. jats were loyal 2 their clans first. land came later.

[sktewatia]

Jat is origin of Ujjain
SK Tewatiaji mentioned about Ujjain

"I'd like to mention that while Jats are mentioned they were never noticed by Indian historians deliberately. One is from Sunda inscription of Sinda chief Chavunda, which says that "just as Amravati looked ever beautiful with Indra, or Ayodhya with the descendents of Raghu, Mathura with Govinda, Ujjayni with Gutta, and Hastinapur with son of Marut (Bhima); so also Erambarapura attained gracefulness with Sinda Chief Chavunda". Now all the references are well understood, but no one has explained who were or was the Gutta (or Guttan) through whom the city of Ujjayani was so known."
Ujjain on Wikipedia

The earliest references to the city, as Ujjaini, are from the time of the Buddha, when it was the capital of the kingdom of Avanti.
Ujjain was the traditional capital of King Chandragupta II, also known as Vikramaditya, at whose court the nine poets known as the navaratna (nine jewels) of Sanskrit literature are said to have flourished. It marks the first meridian of longitude in Hindu geography. It is also reputed to have been the residence of Ashoka (who subsequently became the emperor), when he was the viceroy of the western provinces of the Maurya empire. It was invaded by the Delhi Sultanate lead by Iltutmish in 1235 causing widespread destruction and systematic desecration of temples.(Ref-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ujjain )
My suggestions
1. It appears to prove the theory given by Thakur Deshraj, in Jat History, that Jats moved from Malwa to Scandinavia and founded Jutland. When Jats moved their Sangh got recognized with different names in different parts of the world as explained above in this thread.
2. Under certain conditions beyond their control they migrated from Scandinavia back to Malwa region, their homeland, after hundreds of years. When they came back they were known as Gutta or Guttan, as mentioned in Sunda inscription by Tewatiaji. Gutta later on got changed to Gupta.
3. Jat may be the origin of Ujjain explained as under:
Jat .....Jatt (As in Punjab)
Jatt .....Jutt
Jutt ..... Gutt(J.....G)
Gutt ....... Guttan (As mentioned in Sunda inscription)
Guttan ........Gutian
Gutian..........Gutyan
Gutyan.........Gutjan (Y....J)
Gutjan..........Utjan (G’silent as Gunnis ,19, in Malwa becomes Unnis in Hindi)
Ut+Jan.........àUjjan (meaning noble people)
Ujjan .........Ujjain
****************************
Members may comment on above suggestions.
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Gupta and Barbarian have the same meaning
Gupt(a) means iin hindi Secret, hidden or little known. Once I discussed the word barbarian(often attached with arayans) word with Romila Thapar's research scholar. She explained that it meant little known people. It is true also. Not only Aryans but getae, guts etc. are called barbarians by herodotus also. I'll quote from history chapter "persian wars" describing the fight of massageate queen tomyris with Cyrus the great around 5-6 century BC, when cyrus was killed; "First they faught on horse back with arrows, then with spears etc. n in last both the armies came on hand to hand fighting. In all the bloody wars in which these barbarians engage themselves this war was the fiercest"

not only jat and aryan but saka, huns, turks etc. are also called barbarians. This is differently taken in history from the word barbaric which means ruthless. why these jats aryan saka etc. are called barbarians or little known people is due to the fact that most of history writers were non jats. n jats were usually little known to these outsiders i.e. non-jats.
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[sktewatia]

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another peshawar/purushpur/pakhtoon people of Shakuni's fame

ANATOLIA IN THE OLD ASSYRIAN PERIOD HISTORY

The oldest contact of Anatolia with the Akkadian-speaking peoples appears to go back to the time of the Dynasty of Agade. A legendary account, the so-called epic King of the Battle, relates that a group of merchants from the Anatolian city of Purushkhanda sent a delegation to the king Sargon of Agade, urging him to undertake a campaign to their city and vividly describing the wealth of their country. Sargon is reported in the legend to have, after some hesitation, acceded to the merchants’ request leading his troops to Purushkhanda.
Another historiographical text, the Legend of Naram-Sin, implies that the city of Purushkhanda belonged to realm of Sargon’s grandson. Here it is related that a strange host, descending from the city of Shubat-Enlil in the country of Subartu, i.e. from northern Mesopotamia, invaded Naram-Sin’s kingdom, first attacking Purushkhanda and then, turning east and finally south, advanced toward the heartland of the Akkadian Empire. It is significant that Hittite versions of both of these tales have come to light at Bogazkoy and that Sargon’s exploits in Asia Minor are alluded to by the Hittite king of Khattushilish I (c. 1650 B.C.) in an historical inscription; for this tends to show that the later population of Anatolia considered the Old Akkadian period the beginning of their country’s recorded history. It is further worth noting that in the King of the Battle one of the principal actors bore the name of Nur-daggal, which stands for Nur-Dagan. Since, in the belief of the Akkadians, the lands dominated by the god Dagan lay west and north-west of the city of Tuttul (near the mouth of the river Balikh) the name Nur-Dagan perhaps implies that the merchants of Purushkhanda were not Akkadians but western Semites who were anxious to enter into commercial relations with Akkad.
The first ruler whose contacts with that part of Asia Minor which, in the Hellenistic period, was called Cappadocia, are well attested is Erishum I of Assyria (c. 1941-1902 B.C.). Two copies of an original inscription of this king recording his building activity in the complex of the Ashur temple in the city of Ashur were excavated in 1948 at Kultepe, a site near the modern village of Karahuyuk, not far from Kayseri in central Asia Minor. With this ruler began an era in the history
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http://jatland.com/forums/images/009/statusicon/post_old.gif January 24th, 2006, 12:26 AM #35 (http://jatland.com/forums/showpost.php?p=72346&postcount=35)


old jat area was from ganges to the west of caspian sea

v take jambudwipa 2 b identical with india n search fr the solutions. The puranas explicitly say that bharat varsha is a part, of jambudwipa.

v hear dakshita kurus (southern kurus) in haryana area. n uttara kurus (northern kurus) in the north of meru parvata (pamirr moutains). The madras (modern punjab) n there r uttara madra (northern madra) people. the pakhtoons/pashtoons are in kabul/kandhar area right since the period of rigveda; n yet the Assyrian king Sargon-1 was fighting the "Uttara-pashtoon" in their city of Purushkhanda in Cappadocia in third millenium BC. We have a river called kuru(sh) or kur in the west of Caspian sea, and an area called Kourupedion (the land of Kurus) in the west of present Iraq, exactly like Kurukshetra (the land of Kurus) in india.

All these facts, along with some other facts n notices, pin-point the fact that the lands of Uttara Kurus, Uttara Madras, Uttara Pashtoons were in the region of Caspian n Black seas.

In fact jats were at the centre those times in this land from uttara kurus to dakshina kurus. like they r 2day from indus in the west 2 ganges n chambal in the east.
http://jatland.com/forums/images/009/statusicon/user_online.gif

[sktewatia]

Regarding the names of our villages and clans we have to agree that they are not from one language. Jat crossed a long distance, time, people, wars etc. Built, destroyed and faced many cultures and empires. But he rarely changed his clan name. Some villages and places etc. may be changed due to Muslim or British rule but not their clans. And most of the villages still retain their old ancient names.

Like with arrival of Kushanas their names are Kujla Kadfices etc. but gradually they changin to Kanishka, Huvishka and later to even Indian god names; but "Kushana" is still intact till today. They never changed their original clan name. They are found in Rajasthan in the form of Kusuan/Kasuan/Kaswan Jats.

Similarly Elam, Batana (Bhatana/Bhatona in Gulaothi), Bagha, Susana, Kharkhoda sound more persian rather than hindi names.
Jat, Gujar, Heer/Aheer are hard to be described in Hindi particularly not as easily as Rajput. Why? because Rajput was coined in Hindi/Sanskrit and its very recent name while other names (Jat, Gujar...etc) are much older.

[sktewatia]

Sorry, Arun Balyan ji.

Thanks for your suggestions. I'll take care of them henceforth.
Regarding your querry that half of them in hindi n english; I'd like to say that what I've in this calender is these four months Sept-Dec. March and Febrauary which leave no doubt that It is like Vikram and Saka Calender only. Beginning of year from around March month is very much justified from many reasons in India due to Its Ritus/seasons. And Vikram n Saka calender also begin with March/April.

Now what the Britishers or Christians may claim to be their original calender is in fact not the original one but a pyrated/adopted one from India. They did change the original months name as per their languages and tried and not only tried but actually they are still doing to show it as if it was their own and original one.

However, they still forgot to change the aforesaid months names and hence here they are caught.

Jat emperors of India very fond of starting new Eras. Like Harsh by Harshvardhana, Vikram by Vikramaditya, Saka by Kanishka etc.

[sktewatia]

The Yamna (from Russian яма "pit") or Pit Grave or Ochre Grave culture is a late copper age/early bronze age culture of the Bug/Dniester/Ural region, dating to the 36th–23rd centuries BC. The culture was predominantly nomadic, with some agriculture practiced near rivers and a few hillforts. Domestication of the horse, cattle, sheep and goat, use of plough and carts is attested.

Characteristic for the culture are the inhumations in kurgans, (tumuli) in pit graves with the dead body placed in a supine position with bent knees. The bodies were covered in ochre. Multiple graves have been found in these kurgans, often as later insertions. Significantly, animal grave offerings were made (cattle, pigs, sheep, goats and horse), a feature associated with early Indo-Europeans, particularly Indo-Iranians.


Approximate culture extent c. 3200-2300 BC.It is said to have originated in the middle Volga based Khvalynsk culture and the middle Dnieper based Sredny Stog culture. In its western range, it is succeeded by the Catacomb culture; in the east, by the Poltavka culture and the Srubna culture.


the Yamna culture in 4th millennium BC EuropeThe Yamna culture is identified with the late Proto-Indo-Europeans in the Kurgan hypothesis of Marija Gimbutas. It is one candidate for the Urheimat (homeland) of the Proto-Indo-European language, along with the preceding Sredny Stog culture. First in Eastern Europe remains of wheeled cart were found in "Storozhova mohyla" kurgan (Dnipropetrovsk, Ukraine, excavated by Trenozhkin O.I) associated with Yamna culture .

[sktewatia]

KURGAN CULTURE
http://www.iras.ucalgary.ca/~volk/sylvia/lacebt.gif


[B]I'm pleased and astonished to say that this page has been linked to by British television Channel 4 "Great Excavations". To find similar pages, go here. (http://www.channel4.com/nextstep/great%20excavations)


The Kurgan people were an Indo-European culture existing during the fifth, fourth, and third millennia BC; they lived in northern Europe, from Russia across Germany, and various authorities have mounted a case for them being THE proto-Indo-European culture, from which all Indo-European cultures descend. Other researchers think it likely that later-day Kurgans were the "Sea People" who laid waste to the Holy Land around 1200 BC - traveling south along the Mediterranean in ships, with their women following them in wagons along the shore. The word kurgan means barrow or grave in Slavic and Turkic; Kurgan culture is characterized by pit-graves or barrows, a particular method of burial. They are also called the Pit-grave people, or Barrow people.

The earliest Kurgan sites are in the Ukraine and southern Russia, from which they spread by about 2000 BC to Europe, crossing the Dnieper River. Wherever Kurgan culture spread, it was marked by common elements unlike those of the surrounding Bronze-Age cultures. These are the characteristics of the Kurgan people:

They practiced animal husbandry; in rubbish dumps at Kurgan hill-forts and villages are found the bones of lots and lots of horses, many cattle, and a few pigs, sheep and goats. Few bones of wild game (such as deer) were found, so Kurgans were not a hunting culture. Horse-heads carved in diorite were found, with harness-marks cut into them to indicate bridles.

Kurgan horse-herders may have been like the Scythians, who rode geldings only, their main herds being kept wild under stallions, and controlled through the mares which were hobbled near the settlements and milked regularly. Both wild-horse bones and bones of domesticated horses were found in Kurgan sites; modern bone-analysis specialists can apparently tell the difference between the two types.

[sktewatia]

Why not to try over the world!!!
Ijjesselmeir is a city/place in the County of Jutland in Europe it sounds so similar to Jaiselmer in Rajasthan. Similarly other cities n place there is More(s) comparable with More jats. Arrhus is also a place there.

See Hungary and Balgaria after Henga and Bal(yan) Jats. Eng(land) Eng/angal jats.

Capital of Moracco Rabat is similar to Rawat?

Egypt's capital Cairo and village of Pratap Singh Cairon.

Purushkhanda in Cappadocia in the west of Caspian sea is similar to Purushpur/Peshawar in Afganistan. Plz see my thread "Roots of Jats in the World"

India itself is named after Sandhu/Sindhu jats. How? Because they named the Sindhu (Indus) River after them n ultimately due the name of this river Present land came to be called Hindustan by Arabs and India (after Indus river) by greeks.

See China its ancient name is Yue-chi-um which is pronounced as Guttium is again after Yue-chi (pronounced as Gutti) i.e. Jats.

Iran is after Aryan and same is Iraq/Irak (Aryak). Flight of afganistan till today is Aryana.

River Kuru(sh) is there in west of Caspian sea (plz ref my thread "Roots of Jats in the World). and an area called Kaurupedian (like land of Kurus) in the west of Iraq.

Seoul is capital of Korea. My mother's village is exactly same at Palwal.

Saw a village of Meenas in Rajasthan "Bonn" similar to Germany's capital.

Bavaria place in Germany look to be Indian name we have here Bavaria Jats and Thakurs also.

Perhaps, Rkji told that Tomar is a big town in Portugal or spain.

Russia resembling Ross/Rose jats.

See the changing names of Caspian sea. Its known as Dadhi Sagar in old Indian literature meaning the Sea of Dahi(ya) jats. Modern dahestan is near caspian sea. Later when Mand jats were in power it was called (Dahi-Mandod). Later when Virk and Gill jats came in power over there it was known as Gillan sea and also the sea of Varkam hyrcanian. And later when Gujar tribe of Jats (modern Bad-Gujjar jats are found in Palwal) was in power it was called "Bahr-al-Khaz" meaning the sea of Gujjars by the Arabians.

And if you see the ancient map of Central and West Asia and Europe then almost each and every city/place can be traced to modern Jat clans in India and Pakistan.



Yes, In india we've forgotten Ballabgarh founded by Raja Balram Singh of Tewatia goth around 1760 AD or so. Chittore was Jittore and Jattore as mentioned by Albaruni. Banswara resembles Bains, Jalore to Jal and Sirohi to Sirohi Jats. Alwar can be compared with a Jat king De-Alwaro near Romania.

[sktewatia]

There were two Jats. Massa-Getae and Tayssa-Getae meaning big and small Jats. Greek historians classified them so. But with independent proof from Chinese; they too did know them, and Chinese called them Ta-yue-che and Siao-yue-chi. Some historians opine that the small jats were a branch of Jats who migrated through the Kansu province of Western China towards Tibet. And Kanishka the great was from this branch only. the kasuan/kaswan/XWN.

Now this Tibet, known as trivishtap in rigveda, is named after Tewatia/Tebatiya jats. (Jats in Braj can not pronounce "V" they pronounce it as "B"). And Swami Dayananda who does not find any history in vedas says that "Srishti (human beings) originated from Trivishtap", the highest plateu in the world. Satyarth prakash mentions it.

[sktewatia]

The Tomars of Delhi (http://jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10801) Views: 268
Posted By sktewatia (http://jatland.com/forums/member.php?u=5633)
mihirkula was the king of Magadh (http://jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?p=73500#post73500)

Emperor Mihirkula was succeeded at Patliputra by his son, Ajitanjaya, as per Jain chronicles. Thus Toraman, Mihirkula and Ajitanjaya are the Hari(vaishnav), Hara(Shaiv) and Ajit, respectively of...

Forum: Jat History (http://jatland.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=14) http://jatland.com/forums/images/009/statusicon/post_old.gif January 28th, 2006, 10:20 PM Replies: 15
http://jatland.com/forums/images/009/statusicon/thread_hot.gif The Tomars of Delhi (http://jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10801)
Views: 268
Posted By sktewatia (http://jatland.com/forums/member.php?u=5633)
Mihirkula was Jat and not Gujjar (http://jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?p=73497#post73497)

Plz refer Thakur prasad sharma (suresh) in a book which is a hindi translation of Huensang travels in India. Mihirkula says to the mother of Baladitya of Magadh "A short time ago I was the king of...

[sktewatia]

Posted By sktewatia (http://jatland.com/forums/member.php?u=5633)
muttra museum and origin of sakas (http://jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?p=72157#post72157)

here is a statue of maharaja kanishka without head. he started saka era.

origin of the scythians is claimed 2 b from one: Targita (tri jata rakshasi of ramayna) or Targitaus; and the swedish...

[sktewatia]

Replies: 29
http://jatland.com/forums/images/009/statusicon/thread_hot.gif India to celebrate 150th anniversary of '1857 Uprising' (http://jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9817)
Views: 402
Posted By sktewatia (http://jatland.com/forums/member.php?u=5633)
(10000/25)th jublee celebration of jats, 150 yrs r 2 less, but still a good idea (http://jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?p=71152#post71152)

in "makers of civilizations", "kephart kelvin" says

"by 7700 bc they had crossed tien mountains...... n later these getae/getz/jats became the ancestors of the nordic branch of aryans"

Forum: Jat History (http://jatland.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=14) http://jatland.com/forums/images/009/statusicon/post_old.gif January 16th, 2006, 10:54 PM Replies: 29
http://jatland.com/forums/images/009/statusicon/thread_hot.gif India to celebrate 150th anniversary of '1857 Uprising' (http://jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9817)
Views: 402
Posted By sktewatia (http://jatland.com/forums/member.php?u=5633)
but nahar the tewatia celebrated "sipahi kranti divas" the soldier's day (http://jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?p=71150#post71150)

many soldiers are having moovies after them like mangal pande. its good n i touch their feet. but this raja is nowhere mentioned in the 1st freedom struggle even in indian history. he was originally...

Forum: Jat History (http://jatland.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=14) http://jatland.com/forums/images/009/statusicon/post_old.gif January 15th, 2006, 09:48 PM Replies: 29
http://jatland.com/forums/images/009/statusicon/thread_hot.gif India to celebrate 150th anniversary of '1857 Uprising' (http://jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9817)
Views: 402
Posted By sktewatia (http://jatland.com/forums/member.php?u=5633)
raja nahar singh tewatia of ballabgarh (http://jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?p=70924#post70924)

samrat bahadur shah zafar was gheraod by british forces. the news reached raja nahar. he geraoed the british forces who gheraoed the badshah. britishers were forced to lift their ghera.

ultimately...

Forum: Jat History (http://jatland.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=14) http://jatland.com/forums/images/009/statusicon/post_old.gif January 15th, 2006, 05:49 PM Replies: 73
http://jatland.com/forums/images/009/statusicon/thread_hot.gif Jats : Aryan or Scythian ? (http://jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?t=868)
Views: 1,852
Posted By sktewatia (http://jatland.com/forums/member.php?u=5633)
contd (http://jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?p=70883#post70883)

all international numerals are arabic numerals n in turn they are indian numerals rather punjabi rather jat numerals taken by arabs from india rather punjab/sindh. Rather arabians called all the...

[sktewatia]

During Porus-Sikander War (Paur/Phaur and Alexander), the Porus army was carrying the flags of Krishna. The greek soldiers were baffled and called him Hercules. They said that these jats are the descendants of Hercules who were left behind in his expeditions.

Seeing the courage, elephants and this figure, alexanders army got dis-illusioned and retreated back, ladne se mana kar diya. then it were dahiya(s) the Jats, from Alexander army, who attacked the Porus army first.

His own elephants then retreaded back or unhon ne apni hi sena kuchal di.
Ambhi of takshshila was already won over, he was tokas(takshak, the naga jat).

Porus also was bit more confident. He refuted alexander's letter (advising him to accept his suzereinty or face war, a typical dada type letter) and answered that he will better meet him in war only.

then these two met in war. Alexander was fortunate enough to get an island in river Jhelum. Porus thought that this invader will not be able to croos jhelum in the night.

Captured Porus was produced in the court where all powers wested with the King. Then he asked Porus now let me know "Veer (brave) Porus u know who You are and who'm I? How should I behave with you?"

Porus answered "the same reply as earlier before war"

(plz read my thread "jat n mughal emperor")

Allexander was so impressed or feared that next again laid jats in India, who are ready to fight, like this stupid fellow, who's still not considering you your superior even at the death bed. He better decided to go back and retreat. but while going back he died of desease or over stress or perhaps porus killed him, god knows.

because Jat history is hidden.

Hell, to indian historians, where world worships Jats as devatas, as gods. such blatant examples are not noticed. not even like raja nahar singh. Herodotus became father of history due to jats only. And here its zero absolute zero. Inspite of the best race in their hand they are treating it like a fire ball. Riding a tiger and playing with fire!!!!!!

here is tb (thakur-brahmin) combination who's eating jats and all other tribes like black hole.



Next laid another empire of Jats the Nandals of Asthal Bohr, situated at Magadh. Alexander was told, that they are much more fierce. Better go lucky n he (Alexander turned back).

The young alexander realized the threat.

[lrburdak]

Roots of Jats in entire world

There are number of Jat gotras which find their roots in different countries of the world in the form of places, towns, cities, Deities, words of languages etc. Following list of Jat gotras with their presence out of India has been prepared from Verifiable sources. This may be expanded or used for further research:

Asiagh
Asir is a god in Scandinavia.
Achara
Achara or Ajaria (Georgian აჭარა Ačara), officially the Ajarian Autonomous Republic, (also known as Ajara, Adjaria, Adjara, Adzharia and Adzhara) is an autonomous republic of Georgia, in the southwestern corner of the country, bordered by Turkey to the south and the eastern end of the Black Sea.
Bana
Bana may refer to:
· Banasur, an asura in Hindu mythology
· Banabhatta, a 7th century Indian writer
· The village of Bana, Cameroon
· The village of Bana, Hungary
· The Bana people of West Africa
· The Bana (clan) of India
· The Bana village in Churu, Rajasthan

Batar
The Batar rocket launcher is a weapon developed by the Ezzedeen-al-qassam brigades, the military wing of palestinian militant group Hamas during the Al-Aqsa intifada.
Bavaria
Bavaria is a place in Germany.
Burdak
*There is a province Vardak in name of Burdak in Afghanistan.
*There is a town Spin-Buldak in Afghanistan.
*Buldak in Korean language means, “fire-chicken”.
*Burrak was the name of horse like animal of Prophet Muhammad that carried him to heaven.
*Burraq is village in Syria.
*Burjak is a town in Slovenia.
*Burdock is a plant of Eurasia.
*Bardock is a character in Dragon Ball game.

Burra
Burr (sometimes anglicized Bor) was the son of Búri and the father of Odin in Norse mythology in Scandinavia.

Chahal
Chahal is a municipality in the Guatemalan department of Alta Verapaz.

Chahar
Chahar is a province in Mongolia. Chahar is also dialect of this region. Chaharwati is a region in Agra. Chahar is place in Afghanistan.

Dabas
Dabas is a town in Hungary (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dabas)

Dagur
There is a Dagur god in Scandinavia.

Dhaka
Dhaka is capital of Bangladesh.

Gandhar
Kandahar province of Afghanistan used to be called as Gandhar.

Godara
Godara is also name of a place in Afghanistan.

Gora
· Góra is a town in Poland
· Gora, region inhabited by Gorani, on the southernmost tip of Serbia
· Gora is a Slavic word meaning mountain or forest.

Gulia
Venezia Giulia is region in the easternmost part of Italy. Most of it was ceded to Yugoslavia after World War II.

Hanga
Hanga is name of Odin god in Scandinavia.

Kharub
· Kharub is a village in Palestine.
· Kharub is a city in Tibet, which is of a major historical significance, It is known as Kharub site in Chab – mdo.
· Kharub is also a small town in Israel

Kharra
Kharra is Arabic verb used in Quran meaning to fall down.

Lamba
Lamba is an uninhabited island within the Shetland Islands.

Manes
In Roman mythology, the Manes were the souls of deceased love ones.

Mann
· Maan is also a district in Jordan
· Mann is a Germanic surname

Naga
· Naga is a district in Mie, Japan
· Naga, Wakayama is a town in that district.
· The Naga are an ethnic group of people living in Nagaland and Manipur state in the north-eastern part of India.
· Naga could also mean elephant in Sanskrit or Pali, as in the Naga Sutta.
· Naga means snake (also refers to a mythical race of snake-people) in Sanskrit and in many languages derived from it.
· Philippines
o Naga City, Camarines Sur
o Naga, Cebu
o Naga, Zamboanga Sibugay
· Naga is the Malay word for dragon

Nain
· Nain is a city in Iran,
· Nain is a village of Central Coast of Labrador in Newfoundland, Canada.

Nehra
· In rigveda it is mentioned as Narya (RV VIJI/24/29).
· A king of this tribe is mentioned as a great donor, son of Nara (1/112/9) 1/54/6.
· They are to be identified with Nara clan of the Jats, the Nairi of West Asia.[1].
· The Hyderabad city was earlier named Nehrun Kot after Nehras.

Punia
Punia is a town in Lithuania.

Sunda
The word Sunda refers to a kingdom and an ethnic group living in especially the west part of Java. So, in common, any other term containing this word should be related/named after this, historically.

Takhar
Takhar is a province in Afghanistan.

Teotia
Teotia corresponds to Teuton in
Europe.

Thori
There is a Thor god in Scandinavia.
Tokaj

Tokaj is a town in Hungary (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokaj)


Tomar
Tomar is a city in central Portugal, capital of the Médio Tejo (Mid-Tagus river) region. The concelho (municipality) population is about 43,000 inhabitants, 21,000 of which live in the city (2001). The municipality of Tomar is divided in 16 freguesias (parishes): 2 urban (Santa Maria dos Olivais and São João Baptista) and 14 rural.

Vanar
There is a Vanir god in Scandinavia.

Vrik
There is province of Varkania /Hyrcania in Iran.

[sktewatia]

Pathans (Sakuni, the Jatt, the brother of Gandhari) are in this area afghanistan since rigvedic times n original name of this country was bactria n b4 that dahya.

the incident I related is 2300 BC when Indus Valley civilization was at its peak in India.

Plz let me know the period of Indus Valley Civilization?

[lrburdak]

Tewatiaji,

The Period of Indus Valley Civilization was 3300 BCE–1700 BCE. It was an ancient civilization thriving along the lower Indus River and the Ghaggar-Hakra river in what is now Pakistan and Gujarat (western India). Among other names for this civilization is the Harappan Civilization of the Indus Valley, in reference to its first excavated city of Harappa. According to the Indo-Aryan migration hypothesis, Gujarat and Pakistan were the first settlements for Indo-Aryans.

The period you are worried does coincide with the above period. The location also tellies. You need do further research to find more details of Purushpur.

You may see complete article on Indus valley Civilization on the URL
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indus_valley_civilization

[narenderkharb]

Period of Indus valley civilization is older than above mentioned period,it is becoming more and more evident as new sites are being excavated.
Some articles found at dawarka are dating back to 6000BC

Excavations done at Bacteriana margiana complex reveal differnt layers of inhabitance.
The earliest samples correspond to Harppan civilization(jats)
The later civilization represent two types of cultures for east and west pamirs
the eastern pamirs corresponding to modern Afaghanistan and population represent indo afghan derived.
northern pamir representing tajik and ujbekistan revealed a sythian material culture but the anthropological data shows types of turko cacuoid type as present day inhabitants of this area are.

These datas reveal that jats inhabited these lands and later expanded west wards.
Later sythians arrived and settelded in northern pamirs,in south eastern parts
Afghani population lived after the harppan people.

When these harppan jats migrated towards caspian sea certainly earlier than 7000BC as we notice them in soko's forefathers lands around that period.

Mahabharata is a very late day creation.as we see all Yavanas,Parthas,pahalavas etc.

Plz shift this topic to history section.

[lrburdak]

Peshāwar (پیشاور) literally means City on the Frontier in Persian and is known as Pai-khawar in Pashto. It is the provincial capital of Pakistan's North-West Frontier Province. In ancient times the city was known as Purushapura when it was officially founded by the Kushans.

Peshawar occupies a region that was dominated by various tribal groups of Indo-Iranian origin and a variety of other groups, possibly of Elamo-Dravidian origin, maybe prior to Aryan settlement. The region had links to the Harappan civilization of the Indus river valley and to ancient Afghanistan (before it was called Afghanistan or even Aryana), especially the Kabul valley.

An ancient city named Pushkalwati, founded by Bharat's son Pushkal, may have existed in this general area during early Indo-Aryan times before their movement past the Indus into India. The city that would become Peshawar, called Purushapura, was actually founded by the Kushans, a Central Asian tribe of Tocharian origin, over 2,000 years ago. Prior to this period the region was affiliated with Gandhara and was invaded and annexed first by the Persian Achaemenid empire and then the Hellenic empire of Alexander the Great. The city passed into the rule of Alexander's successor, Seleucus I Nicator who ceded it to Chandragupta Maurya, the founder of the Maurya empire. Buddhism was introduced into the region at this time and claimed the majority of Peshawar's inhabitants before the coming of Islam.
The area that Peshawar occupies was then seized by the Greco-Bactrian king Eucratides (c. 170 - c. 159 BCE), and was controlled by a series of Greco-Bactrian kings. It was later held for some time by several Parthian kings, another group of Iranian invaders from Central Asia, the most famous of whom, Gondophares, was still ruling c. 46 CE, and was briefly followed by two or three of his descendants before they were displaced by the first of the "Great Kushans", Kujula Kadphises, around the middle of the 1st century.
Peshawar formed the eastern capital of the empire of Gandhara under the Kushan king Kanishka I who reigned from at least 127 CE and, perhaps, for a few years prior to this. Peshawar also became a great centre of Buddhist learning.
Reference
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peshawar

[lrburdak]

Mehrgarh was an ancient settlement 7000-3300 BCE in South Asia and is one of the most important sites in archaeology for the study of the earliest neolithic settlements in that region. The remains are located in Balochistan, Pakistan on the Kachi plain near the Bolan Pass, to the west of the Indus River valley and between the present-day cities of Quetta, Kalat and Sibi.

Mehrgarh is sometimes cited as the earliest known farming settlement in South Asia, based on archaeological excavations from 1974 (Jarrige et al). The earliest evidence of settlement dates from 7000 BCE. It's also cited for the earliest evidence of pottery in South Asia.

[sktewatia]

They were perhaps better than the ones at Purushkhanda in Cappidocia? After all it (Indus) was a merchantile culture in 2300 BC.

Regarding area you are right from Ganges n Chambal to Indus lay Jats till today and we have to research on them only.

But you are taking pains and nice work. plz keep it up.

Area of Modern Jats (roughly) coincides with the ones mentioned at Mahabharat, Indus Valley and ancient Aryan Settlement. Not only that, Delhi or nearby area, continued to be the capital of this south asian continent till today atleast for 5000 years. And by any common sense a Race like Jats in this most important area (unlike Rajasthan of Rajputs) could not be born here just over night.

I know Kanishka. I'm reviving his name. now he is my son. Kanishka the Tewatia.

Van Parva of Mahabharata (130/18) mentions Kushans in the north west of Kailash Parvat i.e. north west province of modern china. They are having many (and not 360 villages) in Churu district of Rajasthan. Tonk district is also related to Tokas (Takshak) the naga jats whom Parikshit/Janmejaya vowed to destroy. n hence mahabahrata was related by kagbhushundi.

[narenderkharb]

Good,Historians can always use kanishka 1
and Kanishka II.. ruling somewhere near 2025AD
I WANTED TO KNOW THE PROGRESS OF OUR CASE WHICH WAS PENDING IN COURT ABOUT JAT HISTORY WHICH YOU MENTIONED, MOTHER IS A PETTIONER TOO.

Though the centre has withdrawn controversial remarks about sikh leaders and bandha bahadur I DON'T THINK THEY HAVE DONE ANY THING ABOUT JATS.

[sktewatia]

My mother is not in touch with that now for a long time. She was the first person to move Delhi High court and pleaded that actual history should be taught and not the distorted and chosen one. History may be bad or good. If at all its bad then we can take lessons rather than manipulating it. If its good then also we can be more confident to do still better.

For true history of Jats you can not force the government politically to include it as other groups are stronger than you. That debate on Indian and Jat history was good opportunity to take order from court for just and right cause.

Leftists and Safforn people were both deadly united and prepared. We Jats could not unite and understand this opportunity that time. History of Jats in Indian history books is taught from Surajmal or little earlier. Nowhere it is mentioned that Jats faught with Ghazni; Who was Porus? Ranjit singh is never written that he was Jat. But every where with other castes it is openly written That ruler or person was rajput, brahmin, etc. I've mentioned in my posts about Raja Nahar Singh also.

Jats suffer on following accounts:

Jat history itself was either not recorded deliberately at the time of historical incidents. Or even when incedent became quite prominent then they were dubbed as Sudra rulers. Puranas call Nandas as the beginners of the Rule of Sudra age. The Mandas ,Maurya (mores),the pauras (pores), Kang Variks, The Balhraj , Dharanas were all from this Jat federation . When Purans say that there were seven Ahirs ,ten Gardhabas(Khars)sixteen Sakas (Kangs), fourteen Thsharas(Tusirs),thirteen Mundas, eleven Maunas (Maan) and eleven Puras (pors) all ruling India for about 13000 years. They merely mentioning the various Jats Clans . Something must have happened in 6th and 7th Century AD during the course of the revival of the orthodox Brahmanism which made these people persona non Grata with new orthodoxy.

2. Even when something becomes quite prominent and evident even today like in case of Raja Nahar Singh, he is ignored.


Any way, if those remarks are not yet deleted the court case can be filed not only to delete them but to start Jat history from ancient time. A community that too like Jats (by writing of whose exploits Herodotus became father of history) in such a wide and the most prime area in Indo-Gangetic plain can not be assumed to have history of just a few hundred years.

It was a major news that time:
HC notices to CBSE, NCERT on deletions
Our Correspondent

New Delhi, February 5
The Delhi High Court has issued notices to the NCERT and the CBSE ..... deletion of controversial references to certain religions.... These deletions were made from the history text ..... The Court took cognisance of a petition filed by a retired schoolteacher, Mrs. Krishna Devi, ....,Even the President of India has shown his concern over the doctoring of History. He wrote a letter to the World History Congress held recently expressing his concern”, pointed out Mr. Ashok Aggarwal, the counsel for the petitioner.

[sktewatia]

Well Soka Norman, you can have a look at that.

[sktewatia]

Given below is the recent research paper from the famous journal. It shows similarity of genes only but our views about origin and migrations may be different.



http://www.genome.org/icons/banner/title.gif http://www.genome.org/adsystem/graphics/1139354194913/genesdev/InsStory.gif?ad=10345&adview=true (http://www.genome.org/cgi/adclick/?ad=10345&adclick=true&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cshlpress.com%2Flink%2Finside .htm) http://www.genome.org/adsystem/graphics/1139354194913/genesdev/Telomere.gif?ad=10315&adview=true (http://www.genome.org/cgi/adclick/?ad=10315&adclick=true&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cshlpress.com%2Flink%2Fbasmic .htm)
http://www.genome.org/icons/spacer.gif
http://www.genome.org/icons/spacer.gifhttp://www.genome.org/icons/spacer.gif
Published online before print May 8, 2001, 10.1101/gr.GR-17http://www.genome.org/icons/banner/homeACT.gif (http://www.genome.org/)33RR

Genetic Evidence on the Origins of Indian Caste Populations

Michael Bamshad,1,10,12 Toomas Kivisild,2 W. Scott Watkins,3 Mary ........ A. Batzer,9,11 and Lynn B. Jorde3

1 Department of Pediatrics, University of Utah, Salt Lake City, Utah 84112, USA; ............ate University Health Science Center, New Orleans, Louisiana 70112, USA


The origins and affinities of the ~1 billion people living on the subcontinent of India have long been contested. This is owing, in part, to the many different waves of immigrants that have influenced the genetic structure of India. In the most recent of these waves, Indo-European-speaking people from West Eurasia entered India from the Northwest and diffused throughout the subcontinent. They purportedly admixed with or displaced indigenous Dravidic-speaking populations. Subsequently they may have established the Hindu caste system and placed themselves primarily in castes of higher rank. To explore the impact of West Eurasians on contemporary Indian caste populations, we compared mtDNA (400 bp of hypervariable region 1 and 14 restriction site polymorphisms) and Y-chromosome (20 biallelic polymorphisms and 5 short tandem repeats) variation in ~265 males from eight castes of different rank to ~750 Africans, Asians, Europeans, and other Indians. For maternally inherited mtDNA, each caste is most similar to Asians. However, 20%-30% of Indian mtDNA haplotypes belong to West Eurasian haplogroups, and the frequency of these haplotypes is proportional to caste rank, the highest frequency of West Eurasian haplotypes being found in the upper castes. In contrast, for paternally inherited Y-chromosome variation each caste is more similar to Europeans than to Asians. Moreover, the affinity to Europeans is proportionate to caste rank, the upper castes being most similar to Europeans, particularly East Europeans. These findings are consistent with greater West Eurasian male admixture with castes of higher rank. Nevertheless, the mitochondrial genome and the Y chromosome each represents only a single haploid locus and is more susceptible to large stochastic variation, bottlenecks, and selective sweeps. Thus, to increase the power of our analysis, we assayed 40 independent, biparentally inherited autosomal loci (1 LINE-1 and 39 Alu elements) in all of the caste and continental populations (~600 individuals). Analysis of these data demonstrated that the upper castes have a higher affinity to Europeans than to Asians, and the upper castes are significantly more similar to Europeans than are the lower castes. Collectively, all five datasets show a trend toward upper castes being more similar to Europeans, whereas lower castes are more similar to Asians. We conclude that Indian castes are most likely to be of proto-Asian origin with West Eurasian admixture resulting in rank-related and sex-specific differences in the genetic affinities of castes to Asians and Europeans.

[narenderkharb]

This was the earliest paper regarding genetics after this a series of papers have appeared and the papers of vijyendr kshayapa and Sangmitra are the latest ones in late 2005,there are some genetic finding by Safroja also which I have not gone in to.

Can you tranfer my three latest posts about our connection to Indus valley on jat history yahoo group, I don't know how to transfer data.There we can get critical appraisal by others also.

[sampuran]

Period of Indus valley civilization is older than above mentioned period,it is becoming more and more evident as new sites are being excavated.
Some articles found at dawarka are dating back to 6000BC


How marine archaeologists found Dwaraka

V GANGADHARAN
Chennai, Feb 1:

The submergence into the sea of the city of Dwaraka, vividly picturised in the great epic of Mahabaratha, is indeed true! A chance discovery made by a team of scientists, in the Gulf of Cambay region, establishes that the Mahabaratha story is not a myth. The rich city with fertile landscape and great rivers had indeed submerged into the seas several thousand years ago.

But before we get to the present, a bit of history is quite in order.

There is a vivid description in the Mausalaparvan of the Mahabaratha about the submergence of Dwaraka. The people of Dwaraka including Arjuna seemed to have witnessed strange things before its submergence in the sea. 'The event was preceded by the unabated rumbling noise of the earth throughout the day and night, birds screamed continuously, and heavy winds swept the land. The sea, which has been beating against the shores, suddenly broke the boundary that was imposed on it by nature. Huge tide with great height surrounded Dwaraka. The sea rushed into the city submerging beautiful buildings. The sea covered up everything and in a matter of few moments, there was no trace of the beautiful city.' It was something of an ancient tsunami.

And now the scientists at NIOT (National Institute of Ocean Technology, of the Department of Ocean Development) have established this. While working for British gas in the Gulf of Cambay region, a few years ago, the scientists of the NIOT, were stunned to see images of objects and things, completely alien to the marine domain. Immediately a team swung into action and samples were collected and sent for analysis and dating (it is usually done to scientifically establish the antiquity of the excavated objects).

Samples collected include artefacts, wood pieces, pottery materials, hearth pieces, animal bones. They ere sent to Manipur University, Oxford University, London, Institute of Earth Sciences, Hanover, Germany for analysis and dating. The results were astonishing. It was found beyond doubt that the samples belonged to a period varying from 7800 to 3000 years (BP) Before Present !

The even more flooring discovery happened soon. NIOT, which carried outside scan and sub-bottom surveys in the year 2002-03, established beyond doubt the presence of two large palaeochannels (river channels which existed once and later submerged under the sea) in the Gulf of Cambay. Alluvium samples were collected from different locations in the areas of the palaeochannels by the gravity core and grab method.

Badrinarayanan, Marine Archaeologist and formerly coordinator for the project, says 'the most astonishing thing was that all of the crew-members, including the ship master who was a catholic, had dreams full of strange visions, on the night of discovery. We felt we had stumbled upon something great and unusual.'

The study of the samples under microscope revealed the occurrence of fragile and highly sensitive Ostracods (tiny marine and fresh water crustaceans with a shrimp-like body enclosed in a bivalve shell) overlain by regular marine fauna.

These results strongly indicated that the freshwater deposition which took place in this area was very much a part of the onshore land region and later submerged to the depths varying from 20 to 40 meters. The alluvium (fresh water sand) samples sent to the Earth Science Department, Manipur University for OSL (optically stimulated luminescence) dating gave the OSL determinant of 3000 years (BP) Before Present !

Prof.Gartia (The Journal of Indian Ocean Archaeology, No.2 of 2005, Pg.144) after conducting extensive investigations concluded that Gujarat region had experienced at least three large killer earthquakes about 1500, 3000 and 5000 years BP respectively. Geomorphological evidences also show beyond doubt that the North-Western part of the Indian landmass was seismically active during the last 10,000 years. These killer quakes are likely to have caused the shifting of the rivers and sea level fluctuation including the sinking of the legendary city of Dwaraka, capital of the Lord-King Krishna. The discovery about the availability of fresh water from the now submerged major rivers along with other marine-archaeological evidences, corroborates the Mahabaratha reference that Dwaraka, the ancient city of Sri Krishna, lies under the great ocean !

http://newstodaynet.com/01feb/ss1.htm

[sktewatia]

Kharab ji, will you please post those links or that matter or tell us what is written there. Let me know which posts you wanted to bring on net, I'll do it. Or you can urself also do by simply copy from the post and paste on Jat land.

[sktewatia]

November 24th, 2005, 08:49 PM #63 (http://jatland.com/forums/showpost.php?p=65652&postcount=63) Rajendra Kumar Kalkhande (http://jatland.com/forums/member.php?u=1605) vbmenu_register("postmenu_65652", true);
Active Member
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To find more about Jats and their history, it might be worth reading the history of Elam empire. Jats dominated the enite west Asia all along. Even today there is a town called Jatt ( Jat) in present day Israel;

http://www.fallingrain.com/world/IS/3/Jatt.html

Dahias and Tomars in Israel and then this Jatt town, all can not be linguistic coincidence. Post Mahabharat, Lots of Jats moved over to west Asia and established empires. Elmites opposed Judism, Christianity and Islam all. There are references in Bible and the Holi scriptures of Jews against Elamites. Elmites had names like Abiramu, Nasir pal and Bani Pal which are very much like our present day names. After the fall of Elam empire, many of these jats moved over to Eastern Europe. They followed the routes adjoining sea and then moved towards deeper lands.

Rajendra
http://jatland.com/forums/images/002/statusicon/user_offline.gif http://jatland.com/forums/images/002/buttons/report.gif (http://jatland.com/forums/report.php?p=65652)
However, more to add Elam is a village also of Jats in western UP. Compare other Jat village names also like this; viz. Batana (Ec-Batana), Bagha, Susana, Sisauli, Kharkhoda, etc..

[sktewatia]

old jat area was from ganges to the west of caspian sea

v take jambudwipa 2 b identical with india n search fr the solutions. The puranas explicitly say that bharat varsha is a part, of jambudwipa.

v hear dakshita kurus (southern kurus) in haryana area. n uttara kurus (northern kurus) in the north of meru parvata (pamirr moutains). The madras (modern punjab) n there r uttara madra (northern madra) people. the pakhtoons/pashtoons are in kabul/kandhar area right since the period of rigveda; n yet the Assyrian king Sargon-1 was fighting the "Uttara-pashtoon" in their city of Purushkhanda in Cappadocia in third millenium BC. We have a river called kuru(sh) or kur in the west of Caspian sea, and an area called Kourupedion (the land of Kurus) in the west of present Iraq, ?exactly like Kurukshetra (the land of Kurus) in india.

All these facts, along with some other facts n notices, pin-point the fact that the lands of Uttara Kurus, Uttara Madras, Uttara Pashtoons were in the region of Caspian n Black seas.

In fact jats were at the centre those times in this land from uttara kurus to dakshina kurus. like they r 2day from indus in the west 2 ganges n chambal in the east.


Its not that these people moved from India after Mahabharat; but in fact they were very much part of Mahabharat, Jats, Aryan and Indus valley civilization? I've this doubt though not very clear. Mahabharat is like "Greater Bharat", like greater NOIDA today. The greater Jatland, original Jatland, the real Jatland. Migrations kept continued from here n there even till today. Greatest Bharat is yet 2b thought about?

I still recall your logic of "Indo-European n not Euro-Indian like modern English speaking babus". Indian Jats usually occupied the first place among them like Indra. They do it till today.

[sktewatia]

hi Vinod
but i've reasons to believe that it may be true also that vikram (Chandra) ruled arabia. His inscription on Iron pillar is too impressive. I'll get you that and its translation also. Its nearby where I live. But about 25 years back I myself read it and wondered that time by its language. Plz see my comments (post) of modern calender also on my thread "Roots of Jats in the World". Dr. KP Jaiswal was a very famous (non-Jat) indian historian who proved that Guptas were Jats from Punjab. Dahiya BS, however identifies them with Dharan Jats of Muttra (Mathura). Allahabad pillar inscription of Samudra Gupta mentions many of Jat clans, like Kharab, Brar (original punjabi's Prar), Jun.. etc.

Most of european alphabets n numbers including the arabic numerals also are basically Indians, including Alzebra, Geometry.....
regards
sudhir k tewatia

Vinod Sangwan <sangwan.vinod@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,

I have diffculty in believing all of this... proofs are too flimsy... First of all, it doesn't prove that Vikarmaditya was Jat... I am not sure if term Jat existed at that time anyway... secondly, if he ruled over Arbia, I am sure there must have been other proofs... inscripted dish might have been brought from some other place... BTW the website has many wrong dates about lots of historical events... e.g. date of Gautam Buddha, Chandergupta maurya.... source is unreliable... some pro-hindu sites take things to other extreme and loose the credibility of whole debate, including some saner thinkers...

http://www.thevedicfoundation.org/bhartiya_history/chronology.htm (http://www.thevedicfoundation.org/bhartiya_history/chronology.htm)

-vinod

On 1/9/06, Laxman Burdak <lr_burdak@yahoo.com (lr_burdak@yahoo.com) > wrote: Glancing through some research material recently, I was pleasantly
surprised to come across a reference to a king Vikramaditya
inscription found in the Kaaba in Mecca proving beyond doubt that the
Arabian Peninsula formed a part of his Indian Empire.

The text of the crucial Vikramaditya inscription, found inscribed on
a gold dish hung inside the Kaaba shrine in Mecca, is found recorded
on page 315 of a volume known as `Sayar-ul-Okul' treasured in the
Makhtab-e-Sultania library in Istanbul, Turkey. Rendered in free
English the inscription says:

"Fortunate are those who were born (and lived) during king Vikram's
reign. He was a noble, generous dutiful ruler, devoted to the welfare
of his subjects. But at that time we Arabs, oblivious of God, were
lost in sensual pleasures. Plotting and torture were rampant. The
darkness of ignorance had enveloped our country. Like the lamb
struggling for her life in the cruel paws of a wolf we Arabs were
caught up in ignorance. The entire country was enveloped in a
darkness so intense as on a new moon night. But the present dawn and
pleasant sunshine of education is the result of the favour of the
noble king Vikramaditya whose benevolent supervision did not lose
sight of us- foreigners as we were. He spread his sacred religion
amongst us and sent scholars whose brilliance shone like that of the
sun from his country to ours. These scholars and preceptors through
whose benevolence we were once again made cognisant of the presence
of God, introduced to His sacred existence and put on the road of
Truth, had come to our country to preach their religion and impart
education at king Vikramaditya's behest."

For those who would like to read the Arabic wording I reproduce it
hereunder in Roman script:

"Itrashaphai Santu Ibikramatul Phahalameen Karimun Yartapheeha
Wayosassaru Bihillahaya Samaini Ela Motakabberen Sihillaha Yuhee Quid
min howa Yapakhara phajjal asari nahone osirom bayjayhalem. Yundan
blabin Kajan blnaya khtoryaha sadunya kanateph netephi bejehalin
Atadari bilamasa- rateen phakef tasabuhu kaunnieja majekaralhada
walador. As hmiman burukankad toluho watastaru hihila Yakajibaymana
balay kulk amarena phaneya jaunabilamary Bikramatum".

(Page 315 Sayar-ul-okul).

[Note: The title `Saya-ul-okul' signifies memorable words.]


King Vikramaditya has been permanently enshrined in the pages of
history because he was the world's greatest ruler having the largest
empire. It should be remembered that only a monarch with a vast
empire gets famous in world history. Vikram Samvat (calendar still
widely in use in India today) which he initiated over 2000 years ago
may well mark his victory over Arabia.

It is mentioned in the Abadis i.e., the authentic traditions of
Prophet Mohammad compiled by Imam Bukhari that the Indian tribe of
Jats had settled in Arabia before Prophet Mohammad's times. Once when
Hazrat Ayesha, wife of the Prophet, was taken ill, her nephew sent
for a Jat physician for her treatment. This proves that Indian Jats
enjoyed a high and esteemed status in Arabia. Such a status could not
be theirs unless they were the rulers. Bukhari also tells us that an
Indian Raja (king) sent a jar of ginger pickles to the Prophet. This
shows that the Indian Jat Raja ruled an adjacent area so as to be in
a position to send such an insignificant present as ginger pickles.
The Prophet is said to have so highly relished it as to have told his
colleagues also to partake of it. These references show that even
during Prophet Mohammad's times Indians retained their influential
role in Arabia, which was a dwindling legacy from Vikramaditya's
times.
A careful analysis of the above inscription enables us to draw the
following conclusions:

That the ancient Indian empires may have extended up to the eastern
boundaries of Arabia until Vikramaditya and that it was he who for
the first time conquered Arabia. Because the inscription says that
king Vikram who dispelled the darkness of ignorance from Arabia. It
is clear that Vikramaditya was a Jat king. His capital was at Ujjain
which is part of Malwa.

Reference

http://www.hinduism.org.za (http://www.hinduism.org.za/)




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[narenderkharb]

Tewatia ji
plz post portion of extracts from KP Jaiswal and BS Dahiya about guptas.Most of the members are unaware of these valuable sources.

Your post abot numeral and and calender is really excellent.I have read that though foreginers may say these numerals as arabic these arabic calls them hindavi,It shows its origin from indian lands and a deep interactions between indian and arabic lands.Trade between Indus valley civilization and oman has very well been proved.

[sktewatia]

Thanks Kharab ji I'll certainly post them shortly. And also I'll go to this Iron Pillar also and bring you original photo of inscription and its translation. Mehraulli (where this IRon pillar is situated) is still a village of jats very old perhaps more than 2000 years.

Perhaps grammarien's name was Chandragomin. He wrote "Ajey Jat..." means "Invincible Jats defeated Hunas". The iron pillar at Mehraulli describes that King as "Chandra" and gupta is not written there. Historians invariably identify this "Chandra" with Chandra Gupta Vikramaditya-2. I do remember when I first saw this language that time I was a student in IIT Delhi. I'm sure it was written over there "He, who crossed the seven mouths of sea and defeated Valhikas in their own land together with all of their alliances who came united with them....The fame of that king Chandra.....". Now here what does seven mouths of sea stand for? Certainly its about the conquerring of some very far far land. Even otherwise also, this land was not unknown and many people used to go and come from there. Even Guru Nanak visited arabia. When Arabians can conquer India why not Indians can also conquer Arabia.

I was also surprised to note that some plaster was falling from the nearby temple like building stone pillars and from inside that Jain and Hindu idols were visible. One guide was telling the foregners over there that It was originally a Hindu/Jain temple which the muslim rulers tried to convert into the muslim one by certain modifications.

[sktewatia]

Muslim Period began just almost after the fall of Gupta Empire

THE JATS OF SIND

Before commencing a review of the Muslim period of Sind's history, we shall speak briefly of the Jats of Sind (Pakistan) who were known all over Iran and the Middle East for their sturdy constitution and industrious nature. They have a colourful history and an adventurous past.

The author of Mujmaul Tawarikh has quoted an extinct Sanskrit work according to which the original inhabitants of Sind were Jats and Meds. Early Arab writers on Sind also say that Jats and Meds were important tribes in their time. Ibn Khurdabah mentions 'zutts' as guarding the route between Kirman and Mansura while Ibn Haukal writes: "Between Mansura and Makran the waters from the Mehran form lakes and the inhabitants of the country are the south Asian races called Zutt. The Chinese traveller Yuan Chwang who visited this region in the 7th century A.D. also mentioned Jats.

"The Jats claim to be included in the 36 royal Rajput tribes. Some of them state that their forefathers came from Ghazni. But it is generally accepted that they are the descendants of the ancient Getae, or Jeutchi, from Scythia. Some authorities consider that they entered the sub-continent some time in 1500 BC and are the same as the Jattikas mentioned in the Mahabharata, and also identical with the Jatti of Pliny and Ptolemy. Their original home was on the Oxus."10 According to the Encyclopaedia of Islam, the Jats of the lower Indus comprise both Jats and Rajputs, and the same rule applies to Las-Bela where descendants of former ruling races like the Sumra and the Samma of Sind and the Langah of Multan are found. At the time of the first appearance of the Arabs they found the whole of Makran in possession of Jats (Zutts).

According to a 'Hadis', Hazrat Abdulla Bin Masood, a companion Prophet saw some strangers with the Prophet and said that their features and physique were like those of Jats.11 This means that Jats we in Arabia even during the Prophet's time. Hazrat Imam Bukhari (d. 875 A.D. - 256 A.H.) writing about the period of the Companions in his book "Al adab al Mufarrad" has stated that once when Hazrat Aisha (Prophet's wife) fell ill, her nephews brought a Jat doctor for her treatment. We hear of them next when the Arab armies clashed with the Persian forces which comprised of Jat soldiers as well. The Persian Command Hurmuz used Jat soldiers against Khalid Bin Walid in the battle of 'salasal' of 634 A.D. (12 hijri). This vvas the first time that Jats were captured by the Arabs. They put forward certain conditions for joining the Arab armies which were accepted, and on embracing Islam they were associated with different Arab tribes.12 This event proves that the first group of Pakistanis to accept Islam were Jats who did it as early as 12 hijri (634 A.D.) in the time of Hazrat Omar.

The Persian King Yazdjard had also sought the help of the Sind ruler who sent Jat soldiers and elephants which were used against the Arabs in the battle of Qadisia.

According to Tibri, Hazrat Ali had employed Jats to guard Basra treasury during the battle of Jamal. "Jats were the guards of the Baitul Maal at al-Basra during the time of Hazrat Osman and Hazrat Ali."13 Amir Muawiya had settled them on the Syrian border to fight against the Romans. It is said that 4,000 Jats of Sind joined Mohammad Bin Qasim's army and fought against Raja Dahir. Sindhi Jats henceforth began to be regularly recruited in the Muslim armies.

"Some of the Zutt deserters from the Persian army were transplanted in 670 A.D. by Caliph Muawiya from Basrah to Antioch. When the Arabs conquered Sind, another batch of Zutts whom the conquerors had uprooted from their native pastures seem to have been sent to Syria by Hajjaj (691-713 A.D.) and eventually sent on by the Caliph Walid 1(707-15 AD) to join the previous batch of Zutt deportees at Antioch whence some, again, were sent on by the Caliph Yazid II (720-24 A.D.) to Massisah in Cicilia…. But the bulk of Hajjaj's deportees from Sind seem to have been settled in Iraq. In the reign of Abbasid Caliph Mansur (813-33 A.D.) they broke into a rebellion which it took him and his successor Mutasim 833-42 AD), the best part of 20 years to quell….. Whether there had or had not been a voluntary immigration as well as a compulsory deportation of Zutt to Iraq from Sind, we may take it that in the course of the first two centuries of Arab rule, manpower from western subcontinent (i.e., Pakistan) had it in one way or another been pouring into a south-western Asia that, on the eve of the Arab conquest, had been depopulated by the two last and most devastating of the Romano-Persian wars."14

This statement of Tonybee is revealing in that it shows the close relations Pakistan had with the Middle East. Sindhis began to settle in areas as far away as Iraq and Syria which were depopulated by wars between the Persians and the Romans.

The origin of European gypsies is also traced to Sindhi Jats. Harun-ur-Rashid had recruited Jats to reinforce Cilician fortress. When the Romans descended on Ayn Zarbah in 855 A.D. they carried off into East Roman territory the Jats together with their women, children and buffaloes. This detachment of the Jats was the advance guard of the gypsies of Europe.15 They continued to pour into Europe in small batches at various stages subsequently

[narenderkharb]

Tewatia ji
This single evidence of attack by romans on Ayan zarbah was generalized by the author and then related to gypsies saying they kept appearing ,without any need to do so.
The author was knowing more about jats but less about other indian casts as people OF Haryana are generally treated as jats.
In the world Gypsie confrence held at chandigarh many years back it was clearly pointed out that these Gypsies were the dom cast of India and it was made clear by those Gypsies only,It was also confirmed in one of post of Soko Norman where he personaly had interaction with Gypsies. their nomadic way of life is peculiar to them and just similar to gypsy but quite different from sedentary way of life of jats.So to link gypsy to jat may not be right.These domes till today have the same way,when asked personaly they relate them to maharana partap and argue since rana took the oath not to return to mewar unless he wins it we are wandering since ,However it looks a figment of imagination to me.

However jat's influence and contribution to Europe history is so obvious THE FATHER OF Alaxender the great was a jat(REFER SOKO POST) and mother was roman who wrote a brilliant chapter in world history.

[sktewatia]

You may true Kharab. But what I quoted is not my history its that particular historian's opinion regarding gypsies. However, you are true; its not only haryana but Arabians called all people Jats who stayed east of Indus river. For them whole India was Jat. Because almost all the warriors they met were Jats in east of Indus river.

[sktewatia]

Mor jats were sanskritised as Mayurkas in Puranas. And Morasur in mahabharta. Similar was with nehra/nara jats, mentioned as narasur. used to be one bakasur also. The kasuan is mentioned as Kashyapghata, the tortoise; Bains/bhains, bhainsruhurd of sanpla in rohtak, is mentioned as Mahishassur, Machhar is mentioned as Matsya, Sapra is writing till today Sapra but some of them have started as sapera and some even like Sparrow (Maj. General Sparrow) meaning Chidiya in hindi. Solanky/Chulik/Chalukyas Jats
were confused by brahmins with the palm of hand at the time of the conversion of Jats into Rajputs at Mount Abu for which no specific date is known till today. It was like chinese (and roman walls?) that continued to be constructed for thousandas of years. Like Sivaji (when became king was associated with the so called Soorya Vanshi Dynasty of Chittore/Jattore) though he was bhonsle maratha. Similar was scindias of gwalior. n e way list is to long.

Similar was the case with Hanumann and all the Vanar Jats of Ramayana who were assumed to be monkeys; though the character of hanuman is the typical Jat one. And similar was the case with Naga Jats. The stories of Nagas "whom brahmins confused with Ichhadhari Snakes" that they they never forgive their enemy, were in fact that of Jats. Jat is a "Deadly friend n at the same time deadly enemy also, whose enemity continues for generations, for births".

Jat gotras are similar. The very ancient ones but still continue till today in its very ancient form.

Burdak ji quotes


Jat rulers in Mahabharata period
There are number of rulers in Mahabharata period after which Jat gotras have been descended.

The story of Savitri and Satyawan has been mentioned in Mahabharata Aranyaparva (277-283). Almost every Indian has studied this story. I have taken certain excerpt from this puranic story, which may be of historical importance.

Ashvapati was king of Madra country. Malwi was his queen who was from Malwa country. Ashwapati had no son. With the blessings of goddess Savitri he got a daughter who was named Savitri. Savitri was married to Satyawan son of Ddyumatsen. Ddyumatsen was king of Shalva country but his neighbour captured his state. He took shelter in a forest with Sal trees. Satyavan once had gone to forest to bring fuel wood along with Savitri. The story mentions that Yama himself came to take life of Satyavan and after taking his life Yama moved in south the direction of their pitras (forefather’s land). Savitri pleased Yama with his intelligent arguments and got back from Yama not only life of Satyavan but his Shalva kingdom as well.

***************
Comments
*In ancient India the country between the rivers Ravi and Chenab was called Madra.

* Madrak or Madra or Madrayana is an ancient gotra of Jats and is the root of many of the Jat gotras. According to various historians Sialkot, Quetta and Ghazni were the capitals of the Madrakas since ancient times.

* In puranas Yama has been a mythic character. Probably the man who takes the body of a dead man for cremation might have been identified with Yama. But the story indicates about their forefather’s land situated in south.

*The queen of Ashwapati is from Malwa indicates that Jats had ruled Malwa during Puranic period.
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In my opinion most of them were Jats n Jats only
Plz find the real mahabharat area in my thread "Roots of Jats in the World"

In Sabha parva (chapter 31) the people and kings of various areas are mentioned as attending the Rajsooy Yagna of Yudhittila (how its sounds like Attila the Hun), the gotta. verse 13 of chapter 31 says, "Viratah Saha Putraiseha Machella-Seha Maharathah". Here the Matsya king virata (along with his son) is obviously called machhella (present MACHHER/MACHHAL Jats, unfortunately some of whom write mathur now, forgetting their extremely astonishing past, similarly some of nangdi/nangri gujjars wirte nagar now in a similar manner). "Machhella the Great Charioteerr". This clearly shows that the name of the people was Machhella (present Machhal or Machhar) and it was sansktised into Matsya meaning "fish". Virata is the title of crowned kings of Uttara Kuru and Uttara Madra.

I'd request Machhar jats and Nangdi gujjars now to preserve their goths in original. By changing them they may loose much of their valuable history.

And Satyavati (the mrs santunu) was also not dheevar kanya but a jatni of this machher goth.
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[sktewatia]

Flaura and Fauna means plants and animals. Jats like their sur-names kept these alive in its original form and till today these words are found common in all Indo-european languages.

Here, I suppose, that we Jats must start a new thread on this topic

Why animals names resemble many of our Jat Gotras? Why Siva was called Pasupati? Why a god with three horns is found in Indus Valley surrounded by animals?...............????????/

Many of Jat gotras viz. Sandhu means "Horse", Gaja Means "Elephant", Got (Jat) means "Got", Dagar means "Dogger, Dagger, Danger etc.". In haryanvi it truly means "Daangars meaning Dhor-Pashu, meaning all animals and there dog was the best friend of all animals including the human animals".

[sampuran]

Given below is the recent research paper from the famous journal. It shows similarity of genes only but our views about origin and migrations may be different.



http://www.genome.org/icons/banner/title.gif http://www.genome.org/adsystem/graphics/1139354194913/genesdev/InsStory.gif?ad=10345&adview=true (http://www.genome.org/cgi/adclick/?ad=10345&adclick=true&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cshlpress.com%2Flink%2Finside .htm) http://www.genome.org/adsystem/graphics/1139354194913/genesdev/Telomere.gif?ad=10315&adview=true (http://www.genome.org/cgi/adclick/?ad=10315&adclick=true&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cshlpress.com%2Flink%2Fbasmic .htm)
http://www.genome.org/icons/spacer.gif
http://www.genome.org/icons/spacer.gifhttp://www.genome.org/icons/spacer.gif
Published online before print May 8, 2001, 10.1101/gr.GR-17http://www.genome.org/icons/banner/homeACT.gif (http://www.genome.org/)33RR

Genetic Evidence on the Origins of Indian Caste Populations

Michael Bamshad,1,10,12 Toomas Kivisild,2 W. Scott Watkins,3 Mary ........ A. Batzer,9,11 and Lynn B. Jorde3

1 Department of Pediatrics, University of Utah, Salt Lake City, Utah 84112, USA; ............ate University Health Science Center, New Orleans, Louisiana 70112, USA


The origins and affinities of the ~1 billion people living on the subcontinent of India have long been contested. This is owing, in part, to the many different waves of immigrants that have influenced the genetic structure of India. In the most recent of these waves, Indo-European-speaking people from West Eurasia entered India from the Northwest and diffused throughout the subcontinent. They purportedly admixed with or displaced indigenous Dravidic-speaking populations. Subsequently they may have established the Hindu caste system and placed themselves primarily in castes of higher rank. To explore the impact of West Eurasians on contemporary Indian caste populations, we compared mtDNA (400 bp of hypervariable region 1 and 14 restriction site polymorphisms) and Y-chromosome (20 biallelic polymorphisms and 5 short tandem repeats) variation in ~265 males from eight castes of different rank to ~750 Africans, Asians, Europeans, and other Indians. s.

The researchers had already assumed that West Europeans entering India was a fact and then started researchin on the same.

Naturally, they found what they wanted to prove.


There is a contrary view, not by a Kalu Indian, but by a western white itself. I shall come put it forward when I have been able to find it once again. (

[narenderkharb]

This is true they had certain preconcieved notions.

So despite every right result infernces of those results was wrong .

These wrong assumptions are not held only by those white man it is held even by most our present historians till today and if I am not wrong even by you.

What is this wrong assumption which lead to wrong interpretation of true scientific results.

This is....

Considering vedic brahmans a native of India.

jat and other native groups later enterant in to indian lands.

Fact is just reverse ,see all the results in the background of these results and you will see every single test telling a true story which ask for a new approach to see the history of India.

History of India is nothing but the History of JATS......Dr. Jakir Hussain.


PS. However do not cast any aspersions on the authenticity of these tests,these were not conducted by one single person but many scientists from different countries and results are not fabricated,even most reputated scientist of India does not talk about their fabrication but mention their wrong inferences.

[sktewatia]

This is true they had certain preconcieved notions.

So despite every right result infernces of those results was wrong .

These wrong assumptions are not held only by those white man it is held even by most our present historians till today and if I am not wrong even by you.

What is this wrong assumption which lead to wrong interpretation of true scientific results.

This is....

Considering vedic brahmans a native of India.

jat and other native groups later enterant in to indian lands.

Fact is just reverse ,see all the results in the background of these results and you will see every single test telling a true story which ask for a new approach to see the history of India.

History of India is nothing but the History of JATS......Dr. Jakir Hussain.


PS. However do not cast any aspersions on the authenticity of these tests,these were not conducted by one single person but many scientists from different countries and results are not fabricated,even most reputated scientist of India does not talk about their fabrication but mention their wrong inferences.


Balle balle. Mera dil bagh bagh ho gaya. My heart is garden garden.

I feel now that whether u'r jats or not but u take care of them. But leave them from the clutches of religion region.. etc.

Whether hindu, sikh, muslim, christien, arya samaji, kabir panthi, bisnoi, budhist (like gautam budha), jain (like acharya sushil muni).....

a jat remained a jat always.

[narenderkharb]

I Too agree.
Spare these jats from hindu,muslim sikh,christian bhuddism devide.
India.pakistan,romania germany devide.

LET JAT BE JATS,NOT HINDU,MUSLIMS ETC.

[sampuran]

I Too agree.
Spare these jats from hindu,muslim sikh,christian bhuddism devide.
India.pakistan,romania germany devide.

LET JAT BE JATS,NOT HINDU,MUSLIMS ETC.

Agreed. But dont bank onthe muslims and christians. Mohammed hisself has said for his followers - Dont even trust your family members, if they are not muslims.
And Hadiths are full of stories where his followers killed their own wives, brothers, parents, friends just because of this indoctrination.

Of course, when a muslim gives up Islam, he is again a full Jat.

[narenderkharb]

Sampuran ji
jats can never be forced to reconvert.

They converted to Islam on seeing the vices of our religion like castism,unequality,and dakosala of karmkand by our brahmans,and due to the sufi wave which swept west punjab.

I agree to you, they might not have been very happy when they might have discovered such hate as you mention there.

But to ask them to join us we have to show ourself the best.

Today also one foreigner lady who spent so much time in adopting hindhu religion and philosphy is denied entry to a temple saying she is melechha.

Today also we find RSS head advocating castism with the pretext that it was a way of reservation,thanks for the revelations,what a cruel apathy to sufferings of millions of our downtrodden people.


Kanshi ram in his intrerview to times of india in 1989 said ,who says jinnah made pakistan,it was founded by jats who voluntarily converted to muslim religion against inequalities and poplila of brahmans,jinnah just took the credit for it.

[sktewatia]

To help you fully appreciate the variety of riches Lancashire has in store for you, this site has information about the best that its twelve districts have to offer (Please note that Blackpool and Blackburn are separate unitary authorities).

By clicking in the different areas of the map you can view a more detailed page containing information about the best that each district has to offer. Alternatively you can click on the text link for each area. http://www.lancashire.gov.uk/corporate/lancashire_handbook/images/background_green/homepage_top_right.gif


Jats gave two epiques and stories in hindu religion viz. Ramyan and Mahabharat.

[sampuran]

Sampuran ji
jats can never be forced to reconvert.

They converted to Islam on seeing the vices of our religion like castism,unequality,and dakosala of karmkand by our brahmans,and due to the sufi wave which swept west punjab.

I agree to you, they might not have been very happy when they might have discovered such hate as you mention there.

But to ask them to join us we have to show ourself the best.

Today also one foreigner lady who spent so much time in adopting hindhu religion and philosphy is denied entry to a temple saying she is melechha.

Today also we find RSS head advocating castism with the pretext that it was a way of reservation,thanks for the revelations,what a cruel apathy to sufferings of millions of our downtrodden people.


Kanshi ram in his intrerview to times of india in 1989 said ,who says jinnah made pakistan,it was founded by jats who voluntarily converted to muslim religion against inequalities and poplila of brahmans,jinnah just took the credit for it.

Kharab Bhai,
Ram Ram. I wouldnt entirely agree that muslim Jats dont want to reconvert. you must have heard about 'mole' (Haryanvi pronunciation) Jats. They were forcibly converted at some point of time but revolted and became Hindus again. They cut off all ties with Islam and follow original Hindu culture.
Some years back many such people whose roots were in Gahlot gotr wanted to rejoin the parental body. In fact, they have been trying sinc independence ! The Gahlot khap of Haryana and Delhi welcomed them in with the traditional Havan n hukka.
However, when they started looking for matches for marriagable young people, other Jat gotras wouldlnt relent. People went almost all over Haryana, Delhi and western UP but to get disappointed. We Jats failed them. We could not rise above closed mindset or gather the courage to give a helping hand to the brothers who needed it. What was the end of the story I dont know.

Lets recall the root of the Kashmir problem and what the Kashmiris wanted to do in 17th century. They wanted to return to Hindu fold but the Pandas of Baneras refused. Today whole of India must be regretting that foolishness.

I think we will have to face the bigger issue at some stage as we talk of brotherhood of the Jats. Merely Jat geneology may not hold much attraction when the religious & regional differences and prejudics are so strong between Hindus and Muslims, Muslims and Sikhs, Sikhs and others etc.
So what is the unblemished glue that can appeal to every Jat today irrespective of his other affiliations ? What is that slogan which can encourage us to give up differences & ideologies to follow a path of integration ?

Who is that lady you have mentioned ? I think its for Jats to correct the wrongdoings of these scums.

RSS encouraging casteism is purely tactical. Within their organisation they dont ask your caste. But they are doing so so that Dalits remain within the Hindu fold for the attraction of Govt jobs. It also forc the Christists and Muslims either to accept that they have also been practicing casteism, if they want to get benefits of reservations. If they dont accept, the converts are not entitled reservations.
Its a tricky issue. But RSS r or for that matter who wants to demolish casteism, has a Hobson's choice.

what Kanshi Ram says can have hidden meaning. Also it again suggests what I said above - religious differences amongst Jats are too deep to be bridged till Muslims remain muslims.

[sampuran]

This is true they had certain preconcieved notions.

So despite every right result infernces of those results was wrong .

These wrong assumptions are not held only by those white man it is held even by most our present historians till today and if I am not wrong even by you.

What is this wrong assumption which lead to wrong interpretation of true scientific results.

This is....

Considering vedic brahmans a native of India.

jat and other native groups later enterant in to indian lands.

Fact is just reverse ,see all the results in the background of these results and you will see every single test telling a true story which ask for a new approach to see the history of India.

History of India is nothing but the History of JATS......Dr. Jakir Hussain.


PS. However do not cast any aspersions on the authenticity of these tests,these were not conducted by one single person but many scientists from different countries and results are not fabricated,even most reputated scientist of India does not talk about their fabrication but mention their wrong inferences.


Facts are just reverse ...... What I failed to comprehend is that if the Brahmins came from outside, how did they manage to sit on our heads ?

When we consider other outsiders like British or Muslims, they brought in totally a new socio-cultural-religious thought. But the Brahmins didnt. The underlying philosophy of Indian culture did not change why ?
Any gues wround what period did the Brahmins come ?

[narenderkharb]

They never sat on our head,but to the contrary we sat on their head,and they called us kshtriya,since their kshtriya were totally bitten by us,they keep on complaining this in their literature,which you are seeing and beliving and in real life they were given the same respect as given today by our elders.Though our native pujaris adopted their karmkand for selfish gains,but there varanas etc were totally rejected by our elders so much so that they almost left this land to gangatic plain a, historic fact noted in purans b y their absence from this Indus area.

What do you think were they native to this land?