Political Party by IItians...

[singh1981]

what do u say?looks like something different then usual.....


http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1384411.cms


BANGALORE: Seems like Mani Rathnam's Yuva is getting off the reels. Five IITians, all in their 20s, have decided to take up mainstream politics. The youths, based in Jodhpur, will be in the city to campaign for their national party, "Paritrana'' , which was launched in Jodhpur on Friday.

"Giving up handsome pay packages, comfort of family and support of friends wasn't that easy,'' says Tanmay Rajpurohit, the national president of the party and B Tech in aerospace from IIT Bombay followed by an MS from GeorgiaTech and double masters in arts.

"But my inner voice told me that I should invest my efforts in my country rather than making my pockets heavier,'' said Ajit Ashwalayan Shukla, vice president of the party.

"People think we are crazy so much so that our families have also failed to understand our motto, but we won't give up,'' he added.

The core team of "Paritrana' ' comprises Rajpurohit , Shukla, Amit Beesen, also the vice president and a B Tech (Mechanical) from IIT Bombay and a LLB graduate, Chandrashekhar (national treasurer), B Tech (computer science) from IIT Kanpur, Bharat Sundaram, the PRO of the party and B Tech from IIT Kanpur and PhD in electronics from Melbourne.

"Paritrana means complete relief from the various causes of distress, and that is what we want to do for our people,'' added Chandrashekhar. Low funds have not discouraged them in their efforts of holding door-to-door campaigns in Gujarat, Madhya Pradesh, Rajasthan and parts of Maharashtra.

"We strongly feel that the politicians of today are no longer the voice of the common man but instead they voice their own personal agendas through which they can fetch maximum votes,'' said Shukla.

"We are not here for the power game. We are here to deal with the grassroots issues of each and every small village that we come across,'' added Shukla.

The zeal and burning desire of the five youngsters sounds sincere. "I believe that we are just five ordinary boys from the middle class family with no godfathers in politics but have dared to come forward and fight for our rights,'' said Chandrashekhar. "And we will succeed in it,'' he added.

After the launch of the party at the Suchana Kendra in Jodhpur, the party members, as a part of their promotional campaign will tour Jodhpur, Udaipur, Ahmedabad, Mumbai, Pune, Bangalore and Chennai

regrds,
Sukhbir Singh

[raj2rif]

It is an excellent initiative by the people who are cream of our country. I hope they can continue and maintain their agenda/vision. Their hands needs to be strengthened. Our current politicians and the mafia will do their best to unsettle them, but we the public must support them. I have not seen the movie "Rang de Basanti" but if the movie has been able to motivate the youth of the country to this extent to do some thing good for the country, then probably it may be the right choice for an oscar.
Let us wait and watch the progress of this political party. I had been advocating all along that an organization that is taking up the responsibility to do some thing good for the nation has to be a political one. We need to make our presence felt in the system, where we just can't be ignored.
Good luck to these IIT youths.

[singh1981]

yup at the frst glance it looks quite good......
even this is the response i got from one of my frnd.
" if they decide to contest elections from Delhi i will surely vote for them...........
I am fed up with stupid, illiterate, incompetent politicians..............."

but my point is ......
As they r from IIT's or may be from some other good eng. college....but is that sufficent to prove ki vo ek ache politican honge....
i mean physics or math ki 10 kaidi problem solve karne ka ye matlab to nahi ki vo har kaam kar sakta hai.....

[raj2rif]

yup at the frst glance it looks quite good......
even this is the response i got from one of my frnd.
" if they decide to contest elections from Delhi i will surely vote for them...........
I am fed up with stupid, illiterate, incompetent politicians..............."

but my point is ......
As they r from IIT's or may be from some other good eng. college....but is that sufficent to prove ki vo ek ache politican honge....
i mean physics or math ki 10 kaidi problem solve karne ka ye matlab to nahi ki vo har kaam kar sakta hai.....

Dear Mr. Sukhbir Dhanda Ji,
Firstly, while your fears may be genuine, it is a chance we need to give to our youth. Whether you can or can't solve a math problem does not in any way affect the capabilities of a social worker or a politician per say. Ability to solve the math problem certainly does give an advantage to the people to make valuable decisions for math works on logic. Unless we give them a chance we would never know if they could do it. And the best thing is that with current crop of politicians being what it is, we have nothing to lose, so why not atleast try?

[dreamz0802]

what do u say?looks like something different then usual.....


http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1384411.cms



"We are not here for the power game. We are here to deal with the grassroots issues of each and every small village that we come across,'' added Shukla.


regrds,
Sukhbir Singh


This is really a big step forward for a NEW INDIA....., but still we can`t judge them in one go, so first atleast we need to participate them and know exactly that if they are the one who really knows the meaning of DAND and the one who can really regulate it on good side rather then negative side.
http://www.paritrana.org/ideology.htm

Their ideology (if they are on it) "The role of the System, the Government, the State, or that of a King is to "regulate" Dand, not to hold it.

this guy "Amit Beesen" National Vice-President of PARTY is from ROHTAK as well and was my senior in school and I he used to be a very decent boy in school.


Cheers

[rkumar]

why can't we Jatlanders form a political front along the same lines and join progressive group like these young IItians ? Let us add mass with such groups and convert into a real critical mass. We may not win elections, but we can certainly stire public views on impartant national issues. We can be a real patriotic front.

RK^2

[vinodks]

Rkiji, Namaste, good to see you again:-)) Hmmm, your ever-green willingness to start something new for betterment of our community is very encouraging... Political party started by IITians is really promising step to eracidate corruption in politics...

As you showed your interest in starting something like that we support you to fullest... so lets start a political party... I was wondering if you are willing to take a lead and guide us through it... so whats the first step we do?... What is your vision and goal that may be achieved thru it? and whats is tentative deadlines by which we aim to launch this party?... What would be our agenda and how it's gonna be different from other parties?... please answer...

Thanks
Vinod

why can't we Jatlanders form a political front along the same lines and join progressive group like these young IItians ? Let us add mass with such groups and convert into a real critical mass. We may not win elections, but we can certainly stire public views on impartant national issues. We can be a real patriotic front.

RK^2

[rkumar]

Rkiji, Namaste, good to see you again:-)) Hmmm, your ever-green willingness to start something new for betterment of our community is very encouraging... Political party started by IITians is really promising step to eracidate corruption in politics...

As you showed your interest in starting something like that we support you to fullest... so lets start a political party... I was wondering if you are willing to take a lead and guide us through it... so whats the first step we do?... What is your vision and goal that may be achieved thru it? and whats is tentative deadlines by which we aim to launch this party?... What would be our agenda and how it's gonna be different from other parties?... please answer...

Thanks
Vinod

Let us call it Bharat Vikas Manch. May be members might have better names to suggest. This Manch can act like a true political/ social front. Our main agenda would be to see India a real world power in next 10-20 years. This manch will be run on hard core patriotism and if required, will take even head on against all those whose actions are dragging India backward. There won't be any place for popular type of politics. We will have shadow ministers who will be true experts in their subjects. Let us meet somewhere in 3rd week of April and launch the front with full fanfare...

RK^2

[raj2rif]

Dear Rajendra Ji,
Yes, that is a good idea. I had been propogating to have our own political organization dedicated to the betterment of Bharat and not the individuals. We need to serve the real India which lives in villages. The IITn's Party could be a good partner in getting our message across. Let us start the discussion and see how can we best do it.

[rkumar]

Dear Rajendra Ji,
Yes, that is a good idea. I had been propogating to have our own political organization dedicated to the betterment of Bharat and not the individuals. We need to serve the real India which lives in villages. The IITn's Party could be a good partner in getting our message across. Let us start the discussion and see how can we best do it.



I am all for it Tavathia Sahab... Let us join hands and make it happen.. Let us support even other politicians whom we think are doing great job to make India shine and oppose openly all those who are shame for the nation.

RK^2

[positivelook]

Rk and tavathia uncle

I m sure u both are experienced and knows ifs and buts of life but do u people think that sitting on foreign land and making a political party in india can go together. This really a big problem and in my views it very hard to do this. One more thing abt these IIT guys is that so far they only form a party and there is no difference in agenda cos every political party talks abt all these things like corruption, bharat vikas and etc. etc. So we cant say that these guys are going to do something well for the nation at this stage atleast. Formiong a political party needs lots of things such as man power and Karyakarta who can work day and night for party.
Haan ek baat ho sakti hai akk aane wale time ke berra political party bhee Internet ke through kaam karn lag jyaan arrr poster, banner, ghoshna, election campaign sab kutch Internet par hone lag jaye than it is possible to form a political party while sitting outside India.

Abhimanyu Phougat

[positivelook]

Party Suprimo se nivedan hai kee agar aap mujhe party mein shaamil kar sakein toh mein bhee tyaar hoon. Ho sakta hai aapke saath meri soch bhee badal jaye.

Abhi

[raj2rif]

Rk and tavathia uncle

I m sure u both are experienced and knows ifs and buts of life but do u people think that sitting on foreign land and making a political party in india can go together. This really a big problem and in my views it very hard to do this. One more thing abt these IIT guys is that so far they only form a party and there is no difference in agenda cos every political party talks abt all these things like corruption, bharat vikas and etc. etc. So we cant say that these guys are going to do something well for the nation at this stage atleast. Formiong a political party needs lots of things such as man power and Karyakarta who can work day and night for party.
Haan ek baat ho sakti hai akk aane wale time ke berra political party bhee Internet ke through kaam karn lag jyaan arrr poster, banner, ghoshna, election campaign sab kutch Internet par hone lag jaye than it is possible to form a political party while sitting outside India.

Abhimanyu Phougat
Dear Abhimanyu,
The points raised by you are valid and merit due consideration. Forming a political party is one thing and achieveing the political objectives is another.
First point first. Sitting in foreign land and controlling it or operating it: Well atleast I don't have any intention to control the party if formed for it will be the privilage of the person on the ground with masses. Our contribution could be on brainstorming the subjects and finding a workable solution to the various national and international problems that surface in a political system. We sitting abroad probably can contribute toward the organizational structure and internal administration of the party. We can't be the face of the party and that task has to be performed by the members who are in direct contact with the masses.

Just on a lighter side: If people can win elections from Jail, why can't we run a party from aborad? Think over it. It is basically the communication that is most important. With the technology so advanced, real time information can be passed and even video confrencing can be arranged for specific purposes.

Policy formation is an important issue which requires the brain of the party. We possibly could contribute to that part of the organization.

The majority of the work had to be done by the people in India.

[vinodks]

Arre yaar, I guess you missed my point... I am no intention of forming a political party but if RKji is going to form one I will certainly try to sit in opposition... Because cricitism would help in making the party better... You and Sumit Dahiya should join hands and help RKji and Col Tawathiaji to form such front...
I will remind RKji in 2nd week of April about the meeting in case he forgets and will ask in 4th week about the minutes of meeting... Oh yeah I will try my best to be in meeting to ask more questions:-)))

Vinod

Rk and tavathia uncle

I m sure u both are experienced and knows ifs and buts of life but do u people think that sitting on foreign land and making a political party in india can go together. This really a big problem and in my views it very hard to do this. One more thing abt these IIT guys is that so far they only form a party and there is no difference in agenda cos every political party talks abt all these things like corruption, bharat vikas and etc. etc. So we cant say that these guys are going to do something well for the nation at this stage atleast. Formiong a political party needs lots of things such as man power and Karyakarta who can work day and night for party.
Haan ek baat ho sakti hai akk aane wale time ke berra political party bhee Internet ke through kaam karn lag jyaan arrr poster, banner, ghoshna, election campaign sab kutch Internet par hone lag jaye than it is possible to form a political party while sitting outside India.

Abhimanyu Phougat

[rkumar]

Rk and tavathia uncle

I m sure u both are experienced and knows ifs and buts of life but do u people think that sitting on foreign land and making a political party in india can go together. This really a big problem and in my views it very hard to do this. One more thing abt these IIT guys is that so far they only form a party and there is no difference in agenda cos every political party talks abt all these things like corruption, bharat vikas and etc. etc. So we cant say that these guys are going to do something well for the nation at this stage atleast. Formiong a political party needs lots of things such as man power and Karyakarta who can work day and night for party.
Haan ek baat ho sakti hai akk aane wale time ke berra political party bhee Internet ke through kaam karn lag jyaan arrr poster, banner, ghoshna, election campaign sab kutch Internet par hone lag jaye than it is possible to form a political party while sitting outside India.

Abhimanyu Phougat

Points well taken. Let us now ask the same questions about all those who are in politics and sitting in India;

1. How much we hear of Rahul Gandhi visiting UP or Bihar ?
2. How much Advani goes to Bihar or West Bengal?

90% of Jatlanders are in India and only 10% are outside. Those who are outside, heve their soul and heart in India. Gandhi Ji was outside when he launched his political career and then moved full time to India. Sam Pitroda is a US national and still contributing a lot for India by chairing many important missions. Where there is will, there is way. Let us make sure that we hold at least two major political conclaves each year to educate people about our programmes and some of us are regularly accessible right in India. Let us think of suitable party membership fee so that financially we can run party affairs and don't have to beg money in streets. Overseas wing of our party can do a lot by mobilising media and public opinion against corrupt politicians.

RK^2

[dahiyarules]

I admire the boys' enthsiasm. but, unfortunately as most of you know, I am not impressed.

The solution to government isnt more government. The solution is less government, becuase the problem is the government.

In India, government has failed at pretty much everything, except for being really good at not doing what they are supposed to do.

Forming more political parties and contesting elections ensures eternity for this problem called government.

Let private enterprises have the freedom to provide us with more services to the public. Becuase when we pay for something, we deserve to get what we pay for. And if that doesnt happen, we atleast have someone to hold accountable. When goods and services are provide by the government, we dont have anyone to hold accountable. Who has the courage to confront the government. When people phone lines die out, or their electricity connection is not turned on for ages, or their water supply is pathetic, people dont go to government offices and demand an explanation. Instead, they fold their hands, and plead for help, only if someone just had the mercy to listen to their prayers.

Dont think that this scenario will be improved by having a better government. There is no such thing as "better government." Government doesnt come in vanilla, chocolate and strawberry flavors, that you get to choose. It just comes in one flavor, and that is the one that no one likes.

We need to work more towards reducing the influence of government in private lives, if we are really concerned about the state of affairs.

Running for office to with a mission to reduce the government is something I may support. But if someone is running for office to become part of the government, is something I wont endorse even over my grave.

Please give it a thought.

I am updating my website www.sumitdahiya.com regularly. I request you to give it a glance once in a while.

Thanks,
Sumit

[lokeshpawar]

To all of u,
Ram-Ram,

Sir,
Frankly speaking Ihave been observing that we people share our views on each topic and that too very critically. But it is really not going to help us till and until we implement them. So we should think over this issue. How, who, when, what and why of every issue should be considered in implementation terms. Brainstorming without implementation is wastage of time and slowly we will loose our interst on these kind of issues.Tomorrow i am going to Nicobar for a month trip, I am not sure wether I will get internet facility there, if, than i will surely respond to you.

Regards,

LOKESH PAWAR>

[cooljat]

I salute these real young leaders of nation, only young guns can take revolutions n I think time has come now, I wish them all the very best!

salutations & kudos to them all!

rock on
Jit

[mukeshkumar007]

it Bharat Vikas Manch. May be members might have better names to suggest. This Manch can act like a true political/ social front. RK^2

It is indeed a good idea and now we need to shape it asap. Without forming a political manch our problem can’t be solved. If it can be done then I would surely join it as an active member.

[naresh.mehta]

Dear Mr Sumit...
I find the post by you in a very pessimistic mode.
I hope the statement by you that "Government is the problem" is something you have really pondered upon and not some usual sarcastic comment we people are so used to pass!!
If an automobile fails or breaks down, does it imply that we should stop using the vehicles itself and revert to walking ??? No, it rather indicates that something has to be changed/improved in the vehicle...
The government of Indian soverign got into action in Nov 1949 (after the end of Interim Govt) and soon the constitution saw the daylight (26 jan 50).. The Govt and the constitution are no jokes to be made fun of by pessimists at some internet forums. I find it in really bad taste and consider it a serious unpatriotic act.
There is no reason to lose faith in the system itself.. System is flawed due to antisocial elements. It is not the Govt... but the people who are corrupt and of low self esteem and rather lower ideals who keep on electing wrong candidates for some paltry aid or worse in the name of caste and religion!!
Laloo was in power for ages.. His Govt was bad... fine.. Bad govt.. But I guess it was because of the people of bihar that they had such a CM... !!
Dear Sumit, Govt does come in flavours ... flavours which people even like.. But the Chef (or watever an icemaker is called!!) got to be real good ... He has to make the icecream with pure heart and full sincerity.. The politicians at the time of freedom , had reached there after a long freedom struggle.. They had given up their bright career to fight british (Now please dont come with the usual pessimistic disparaging of Nehru and Gandhi!.. ) And no wonder the Govt under Nehru was free of corruption...
As the time passed on dynasties came and godfather system flourished.. Politics came in the hands of some few people... and the downfall began! But it is not irreversible.. things can be set back on track!
Why iitians' act is more appreciable is because they have not been driven by any urge to earn money.. They could have made decent earning in corporate world.. The only reason they are out there is to serve.. And this motive of SERVICE is what had been missing for long...
So please Sir be optimistic and do not disparage the genuine Govt servants with such an indifference!


I admire the boys' enthsiasm. but, unfortunately as most of you know, I am not impressed.

The solution to government isnt more government. The solution is less government, becuase the problem is the government.

In India, government has failed at pretty much everything, except for being really good at not doing what they are supposed to do.

Forming more political parties and contesting elections ensures eternity for this problem called government.

Let private enterprises have the freedom to provide us with more services to the public. Becuase when we pay for something, we deserve to get what we pay for. And if that doesnt happen, we atleast have someone to hold accountable. When goods and services are provide by the government, we dont have anyone to hold accountable. Who has the courage to confront the government. When people phone lines die out, or their electricity connection is not turned on for ages, or their water supply is pathetic, people dont go to government offices and demand an explanation. Instead, they fold their hands, and plead for help, only if someone just had the mercy to listen to their prayers.

Dont think that this scenario will be improved by having a better government. There is no such thing as "better government." Government doesnt come in vanilla, chocolate and strawberry flavors, that you get to choose. It just comes in one flavor, and that is the one that no one likes.

We need to work more towards reducing the influence of government in private lives, if we are really concerned about the state of affairs.

Running for office to with a mission to reduce the government is something I may support. But if someone is running for office to become part of the government, is something I wont endorse even over my grave.

Please give it a thought.

I am updating my website www.sumitdahiya.com (http://www.sumitdahiya.com) regularly. I request you to give it a glance once in a while.

Thanks,
Sumit

[dahiyarules]

Dear Naresh!

Thanks for responding to my post without any badmouthing. I usually take in a lot of abuse both publicly and privately for my views. But I appreciate it all, because it strengthens my faith in my beliefs.

Governmentis not a vehicle. It is an institution. We are not facing a vehicle breakdown. We are facing the downfall of an institution.

Now that Laloo's Govt. has been kicked out, do you think that Nitish Kumar's government will set up the "ram rajya," everyone dreams of. It will be kicked out too. The only reason not one government rules eternally, and gets kicked out of poweris becuase it fails to live up to their pre-election pledges. And it happens again and again. This is pure evidence that the institution of Government is a failure. And we try to fix this failure by electing a new govenrment, which one day becomes a failure itself.

Power to the people.

This is the core of my beliefs. Whis is it so difficult for you guys to digest this idea. What wrong in empowering people to make the crucial decisions in their lives. Capitalism provides people with choice. If one provider doesnt suit you, you can choose from the others available. Government is inherently a socialist institution, and goes completely against the principles of "voluntaryism," which in other words I call "capitalism."

My question is: How long will you let the institution of Government to fail over and over again, until you want to give voluntaryism a fair chance. Do you want 5 years, 10 years, 15, 20, 50 or 100 years? Give me a concrete figure. I dont know if I will be here for that long of a time, but assuming that you say 50 years, and after 50 years, things are still the same. Would you be willing to give voluntarysm a chance? If the answer is yes, then that proves that you have a doubt somewher ein your heart, about the efficiency of government. You know that there is a fair chance that nothing can be done about it. If the answer is no, then you are stuck in your head. And I cannot do anything about it.

Finally, I will keep criticizing the leaders of India including Gandhi, Nehru and Bose etc. Point me out if I have unfairly mentioned something about them. Everything I have said is a fact, and cannot be denied. These leaders were hardcore socialists, and socialism is the bane of civilized societies.

I always say: if healthy criticism of Government and political leaders is discouraged or disparaged, its a very unhealthy sign for a civilized society. It is a symbol of "unjustified blindfaith" in the establishment. This leads to the ceasure of all healthy debate and discussion, finally pushing the society off a cliff.

Criticism leads to innovation.


Dear Mr Sumit...
I find the post by you in a very pessimistic mode.
I hope the statement by you that "Government is the problem" is something you have really pondered upon and not some usual sarcastic comment we people are so used to pass!!
If an automobile fails or breaks down, does it imply that we should stop using the vehicles itself and revert to walking ??? No, it rather indicates that something has to be changed/improved in the vehicle...
The government of Indian soverign got into action in Nov 1949 (after the end of Interim Govt) and soon the constitution saw the daylight (26 jan 50).. The Govt and the constitution are no jokes to be made fun of by pessimists at some internet forums. I find it in really bad taste and consider it a serious unpatriotic act.
There is no reason to lose faith in the system itself.. System is flawed due to antisocial elements. It is not the Govt... but the people who are corrupt and of low self esteem and rather lower ideals who keep on electing wrong candidates for some paltry aid or worse in the name of caste and religion!!
Laloo was in power for ages.. His Govt was bad... fine.. Bad govt.. But I guess it was because of the people of bihar that they had such a CM... !!
Dear Sumit, Govt does come in flavours ... flavours which people even like.. But the Chef (or watever an icemaker is called!!) got to be real good ... He has to make the icecream with pure heart and full sincerity.. The politicians at the time of freedom , had reached there after a long freedom struggle.. They had given up their bright career to fight british (Now please dont come with the usual pessimistic disparaging of Nehru and Gandhi!.. ) And no wonder the Govt under Nehru was free of corruption...
As the time passed on dynasties came and godfather system flourished.. Politics came in the hands of some few people... and the downfall began! But it is not irreversible.. things can be set back on track!
Why iitians' act is more appreciable is because they have not been driven by any urge to earn money.. They could have made decent earning in corporate world.. The only reason they are out there is to serve.. And this motive of SERVICE is what had been missing for long...
So please Sir be optimistic and do not disparage the genuine Govt servants with such an indifference!

[rkumar]

..........Governmentis not a vehicle. It is an institution. We are not facing a vehicle breakdown. We are facing the downfall of an institution.
.......................................
Power to the people.

This is the core of my beliefs. ..............

Criticism leads to innovation.

Let us imagine world without government where power is with people...

1. Every person will think that his words should be the final
2. Every person will have freedom to do whatever he/ she wants, including punishing whomever one likes.

It will be Chimpengy rule almost where Alpha male will rule..and others will have no option but to submit...

Did we ever have a society where there was no government and power was with people ? If not then why?

RK^2

[vipin_nadar]

I have to agree with Sumit in certain sense however not completely.
The government might be a problem and we need not up the world record for largest number of political parties.
On the other hand we can't also wait for someone else to come up and rid us of our problems. In case we have issues we need to stand up and work for them.
We hail this new party however by reading about that we don't think of joining it. we think of our own party.
My view is why can't we make this Party (paritrana) stronger and be a part of it. We like the ideology so why not take a step further and say dude we are brothers in arms and we'll make the change together.
The only fear I have is that we can have no gaurentee that party we support today based on some ideology would not be like the others that started in the similar ideoloical grounds?
I still do not see any political party that believes in governing. All we have are power mongers. The only thing a Party wants to do is be in POWER and then forget everything else.
I hope and wish that the idea that I am planning to support with Paritrana does not get lost and we can shape things better.

VIP in

[vipin_nadar]

I agree with you Sumit that Power with People is the key to future world of prosperity however not all are able to handle that power and we have seen this very thing with our political scenario. we have provided undeserving people with power and they do not know what to do with it.
What I believe is that let people like us who understand what the power is and how it can be used, come forward and try to make things right.
Power to people is OK, however What i am unable to understand in your view is, who is going to give it to them. I believe we have to Take it.
educate me in case I misunderstand your point

VIP in

[crsnadar]

Hi Dear All,

First of All "Our Heartly Salute to these initiators".

Now what the Young Blood of Jatlad can do for these?
It is the prime question now.....as far I think.

We should send some Serious Support to this group.
If it would be from the young Blood then it would be great.
India is very big so need more such Young People to come to politics.
So many people are here who can contribute at least to the area to which they are familier.
Senior persons should give us some direction.
Myself for Bulandshahar (along with other Bulandshaharians e.g. hemendra & Vipin).
Is not it?
Bye

RAHUL NADAR
09412707508

[mukeshkumar007]

Now what the Young Blood of Jatlad can do for these?


we too can shape such type of political organisation. and I think we all in the direction and guidence of our senior members can go ahead.. lets wait how it goes.? I am of the view that wihout political organisation we can't solve every problem.

[raj2rif]

I agree with you Sumit that Power with People is the key to future world of prosperity however not all are able to handle that power and we have seen this very thing with our political scenario. we have provided undeserving people with power and they do not know what to do with it.
What I believe is that let people like us who understand what the power is and how it can be used, come forward and try to make things right.
Power to people is OK, however What i am unable to understand in your view is, who is going to give it to them. I believe we have to Take it.
educate me in case I misunderstand your point

VIP in

I am surprised with the understanding of the government by Sumit. In its simplest form: Power with the people as advocated by Sumit is what is the democracy means? It is the Government of the people, by the people for the people. Sumit is advocating the corporate structure. Who runs the corporate, the management? From where does the management come?: Elected by share holders. That is exactly we do in a democratic system. The Government is like a corporation whose management is elected by the share holders (the public) What if Corporation breaks down? Like Enron? If Government was not there, probably, Enron would have continued. However if Government fails, people have a chance to change it: BJP, Congress and Laloo all loosing election or Nixon getting impeached. If answer to corporate checks is Union, then what is the checks to the Unioin. Are we not walking back to the system of governance with the different name.

Here the example given of the vehicle breakdown perfectly suits the situation. We need to repair the vehicle rather than discarding it and start walking.

Government is the institution. Is the government bad? No, it is the people who are representing it are bad. Who elects them? The people whose vary cause Sumit is advocating. So in ecessenc it is the people who need to be educated, rather than condemening the institution of Government. The law and order is the core of a civilized society and let us have no doubts about that. Intellectuals discussing and discarding this Institution rarely go to vote. The people who don't have a job or make very little money are then exploited by the corrupt PEOPLE (among us) who pay them a little more than their daily wages to vote for them. It suits both the corrupt politician as well as the poor, unemployed person. And when one gets to the power, by spending money, he tries to make more money. Simply as a corporation works to get more return, so does this corrupt politician. Thus the politics becomes business rather than service.

We need to correct the people first, and when we do that, the institution of the government would become what we want it to become.

[naresh.mehta]

I could not agree more with the views expressed by Col Tavathia ...
And please Mr Dahiya , stop being an anti marxist over here... The topic in question has nothing to so with socialism, communism or capitalism.. and neither are u expected to bend things so as to make them fall in these cateogaries!
The 'healthy criticism' from your side and the subsequent suggestion of 'privatisation' speaks of the extremely low awareness you have regarding the remote villages and tribal areas in India!!!
How exactly do you plan to get 'this' power in the hands of the people ??... What better way can you suggest over the democracy which has sustained milleniums- since the days of Takshshila!!
I think the basic act of continuous, indefatigable pursuit is what actually defines human life. And Indian people are no exceptions.. We vote them and hope that they will work.. if they do work ... they are re elected.. ( how can u forget bengal govt under Mr Basu... though communists!), else they are replaced... We atleast have a choice in democracy.. The constant effort of improvisation is what we are expected to do... Things will finally move in the right direction.
But just criticising and that too in such a hopeless manner is not the way out..
Without any hard feelings towards foreign settled junta and NRIs, I seriously wonder over your basic understanding of Indian society!! How can you criticise socialism so blatantly when 25% of our people are still below poverty line!! How can a 'Volunteer' be more effective and passionate then the person elected by these poor unaware tribals and remote villagers ... I agree that clever politicians have been fooling these people for a long time now.. and they have been electing wrong guys over and again... But that's what these people from iit are trying to mend.. Showing them the right path.. the ray of hope.. the genuine candidate..
One need not fight the election but one can try educating poor voters of their rights.. of the demands they can put and contro they can have over the elected legislators (thanks to the great constitution)...
People have founf loopholes in the system and in the constitution also.. We have to plug them back.. I seriosuly respect the great efforts taken by the leaders (whom you so passionately hate... as they were socialists and cared for the society which had just seen the sun of freedom!! ... Could you be more indifferent to these people??) .. If you ever get to read about the way in which the constitution was framed , you will realise how tough it is to manage and run a nation of 116 crores.. Just having the enthusiam and just volunteering is not enough!...
How will a volunteer from New Jersey or California or even Mbai understand the pain of a bheel in golkunda? The present format is the BEST possible.. Educating the voter will be a significant move ... which will set the democracy in motion... toward the right direction!!!
Amen!

Dear Naresh!

Thanks for responding to my post without any badmouthing. I usually take in a lot of abuse both publicly and privately for my views. But I appreciate it all, because it strengthens my faith in my beliefs.

Governmentis not a vehicle. It is an institution. We are not facing a vehicle breakdown. We are facing the downfall of an institution.

Now that Laloo's Govt. has been kicked out, do you think that Nitish Kumar's government will set up the "ram rajya," everyone dreams of. It will be kicked out too. The only reason not one government rules eternally, and gets kicked out of poweris becuase it fails to live up to their pre-election pledges. And it happens again and again. This is pure evidence that the institution of Government is a failure. And we try to fix this failure by electing a new govenrment, which one day becomes a failure itself.

Power to the people.

This is the core of my beliefs. Whis is it so difficult for you guys to digest this idea. What wrong in empowering people to make the crucial decisions in their lives. Capitalism provides people with choice. If one provider doesnt suit you, you can choose from the others available. Government is inherently a socialist institution, and goes completely against the principles of "voluntaryism," which in other words I call "capitalism."

My question is: How long will you let the institution of Government to fail over and over again, until you want to give voluntaryism a fair chance. Do you want 5 years, 10 years, 15, 20, 50 or 100 years? Give me a concrete figure. I dont know if I will be here for that long of a time, but assuming that you say 50 years, and after 50 years, things are still the same. Would you be willing to give voluntarysm a chance? If the answer is yes, then that proves that you have a doubt somewher ein your heart, about the efficiency of government. You know that there is a fair chance that nothing can be done about it. If the answer is no, then you are stuck in your head. And I cannot do anything about it.

Finally, I will keep criticizing the leaders of India including Gandhi, Nehru and Bose etc. Point me out if I have unfairly mentioned something about them. Everything I have said is a fact, and cannot be denied. These leaders were hardcore socialists, and socialism is the bane of civilized societies.

I always say: if healthy criticism of Government and political leaders is discouraged or disparaged, its a very unhealthy sign for a civilized society. It is a symbol of "unjustified blindfaith" in the establishment. This leads to the ceasure of all healthy debate and discussion, finally pushing the society off a cliff.

Criticism leads to innovation.

[sunildabas]

I could not agree more with the views expressed by Col Tavathia ...
And please Mr Dahiya , stop being an anti marxist over here... The topic in question has nothing to so with socialism, communism or capitalism.. and neither are u expected to bend things so as to make them fall in these cateogaries!
The 'healthy criticism' from your side and the subsequent suggestion of 'privatisation' speaks of the extremely low awareness you have regarding the remote villages and tribal areas in India!!!
How exactly do you plan to get 'this' power in the hands of the people ??... What better way can you suggest over the democracy which has sustained milleniums- since the days of Takshshila!!
I think the basic act of continuous, indefatigable pursuit is what actually defines human life. And Indian people are no exceptions.. We vote them and hope that they will work.. if they do work ... they are re elected.. ( how can u forget bengal govt under Mr Basu... though communists!), else they are replaced... We atleast have a choice in democracy.. The constant effort of improvisation is what we are expected to do... Things will finally move in the right direction.
But just criticising and that too in such a hopeless manner is not the way out..
Without any hard feelings towards foreign settled junta and NRIs, I seriously wonder over your basic understanding of Indian society!! How can you criticise socialism so blatantly when 25% of our people are still below poverty line!! How can a 'Volunteer' be more effective and passionate then the person elected by these poor unaware tribals and remote villagers ... I agree that clever politicians have been fooling these people for a long time now.. and they have been electing wrong guys over and again... But that's what these people from iit are trying to mend.. Showing them the right path.. the ray of hope.. the genuine candidate..
One need not fight the election but one can try educating poor voters of their rights.. of the demands they can put and contro they can have over the elected legislators (thanks to the great constitution)...
People have founf loopholes in the system and in the constitution also.. We have to plug them back.. I seriosuly respect the great efforts taken by the leaders (whom you so passionately hate... as they were socialists and cared for the society which had just seen the sun of freedom!! ... Could you be more indifferent to these people??) .. If you ever get to read about the way in which the constitution was framed , you will realise how tough it is to manage and run a nation of 116 crores.. Just having the enthusiam and just volunteering is not enough!...
How will a volunteer from New Jersey or California or even Mbai understand the pain of a bheel in golkunda? The present format is the BEST possible.. Educating the voter will be a significant move ... which will set the democracy in motion... toward the right direction!!!
Amen!

i fully agree with naresh that if we have bad leglistaor we can change him(though it may take some time) but what if the private enterprises have there freedom then i am pretty sure they will suck blood.
for e.f look at privatisation of electricity in delhi
the services have not much improved but the bill amount has surely taken a steep rise. what will happen if a man earns rs 7000 or 8000 per month and has a electricity bill of aprrox. rs 4000.
this is what happened in delhi and to solve the problem the govt. had to internve and gave subsidy to bses to solve the problem.
everyone knows that private enetrprises are totally professionals and they are only aim is to have max. profit and they r least corncerned abt the problems of public. sumit everyone is not rich like u so u should also sometimes view this world from the point of view of poors or middle class.

[sunildabas]

Dear Abhimanyu,
The points raised by you are valid and merit due consideration. Forming a political party is one thing and achieveing the political objectives is another.
First point first. Sitting in foreign land and controlling it or operating it: Well atleast I don't have any intention to control the party if formed for it will be the privilage of the person on the ground with masses. Our contribution could be on brainstorming the subjects and finding a workable solution to the various national and international problems that surface in a political system. We sitting abroad probably can contribute toward the organizational structure and internal administration of the party. We can't be the face of the party and that task has to be performed by the members who are in direct contact with the masses.

Just on a lighter side: If people can win elections from Jail, why can't we run a party from aborad? Think over it. It is basically the communication that is most important. With the technology so advanced, real time information can be passed and even video confrencing can be arranged for specific purposes.

Policy formation is an important issue which requires the brain of the party. We possibly could contribute to that part of the organization.

The majority of the work had to be done by the people in India.

Dear Col Tavathia sir pls find a workable solution to the problem of illegal const. in delhi specially illegal const in lal dora.
how clever are the rich man or businessman are. a case was filed by RAW in court for commercial use of resdential pr. in places like green park or hauz khas.
1)but the situation took a dramatic turn now the bull dozers of mcd are heading for illegal const. in lal dora
2)court wanted to stop corruption but the mcd officers now are taking bribes 10 times higher or even more than that.
3)rich man(who has malls etc) can afford the bribe but the poor can not hence ultimately the poor will suffer.
4) no consiladation of land has been done since 1908 in many villages so the abadi that increased after 1908 where it should go
i)so is it fault of the people who occupied there farms and converted there farms for resudinetial purposes or
ii)the govt which should have taken some measures to solve this problem




why does the court ask the govt. what action it took to rehabliate people or i mean why does the court not the govt. to task which in my opion is at fault

[positivelook]

We cant run a country without govt. and if we try to do this than the results will be as bad as when britishers came to india for business and ruled india for 200 yrs.

Abhimanyu Phougat

[dahiyarules]

Wow!

The responses were awesome. I just cannot resist myself from resisting. But, then I have two big exams today.

Anyways!

"No government" is an idea that I should keep from you guys. It just drives you nuts just like a red cloth drives a bull bonkers in Yonkers(Any Jatlander from Yonkers?). :))

For now, how about focussing just on privatization?

WAKE UP GUYS. COMMUNISM CAME TUMBLING DOWN LIKE A HOUSE OF CARDS. THIS WHOLE MARXIST THEORY DOES NOT WORK.

SO WHO WILL GIVE ME ONE GOOD EXAMPLE OF A STATE RUN ENTERPRISE THAT RUNS EFFICIENTLY AND PROVIDES SERVICES TO THE PEOPLE WHILE GENERATING POSITIVE REVENUES? I CAN GIVE YOU TONNES OF EXAMPLES OF PRIVATELY RUN AND OWNED ENTERPRISES THAT MEET THESE GOALS?

Private enterprises run better than government enterprises. Dispute this one?

As for the political party, how many of you see these IITans going anywhere? If they will be honest, they will be run over by the bad guys. If they will be corrupt, they will end up becoming like the rest. I dont see any ray of hope.

Now before anyone yells "pessimistic," how about a 100 rupee bet. Lets give them 10 years. If they win, I give you 100 rupees, if they loose you give me 100 rupees, and I will shut up for the rest of my life. I will submit, and wont bitch about government anymore. But if I win, then you guys will have to submit, and agree with me that we need more privatization.



We cant run a country without govt. and if we try to do this than the results will be as bad as when britishers came to india for business and ruled india for 200 yrs.

Abhimanyu Phougat

[choudharysaaab]

kafi interesting replies he... jo IITians ki is step ke oppose kar rahe he me unlogo ko ye kahana chahunga ki kam se kam in "kuchh logo" me wo "JAJBA" to he jo aur dusare logo me nahi he society me revolution lane ka...IITians ne har field me achcha kiya he...once they are given chance ye log yaha bhi achcha hi karenge, unko apne efforts marne do bhaiyo kya dikkat he kisi ko...if you don't want to support then I would request you to kindly calm down without any opposition....well, baki logo ki apni apni thinking he, kon kitna achcha karna chahata he society ke liye wo to wo khud hi behtar jante he; isme mere ya ap ke kahane bhar se kuchh firk nahi padega, age ake kuchh karke dikhao, nahi ho sakta kisi se to chup baithe raho aur jo kar rahe he unko karne do :rolleyes:

[positivelook]

Dear Sumit

As a individual i respect ur viewpoint and i hope that god give u strength to go ahead with ur viepoint. My dear friend i am agree with ur remarks on these IITians abt winning the election and i also think wht u are saying but dont u think that ur viewpoint is also like this that u also know that its not going to be happen that we won't have a govt. and privatization took over all the govts. We all know including u that wht ur saying abt no govt. is such a issue on which u hardly get a minor support from the outside world and there is no possibility in near future. I really appreciate ur view point and ur concern abt the people of india but i think its better to accept things which u know are not going to happen. But nyway if u still think that ur voice will wakeup masses one day than i appreciate ur positiveness.
I also think of doing something for my people and my country but difference is that we have differences in thinking and we both think that we are right so lets see how things go in next ten yrs.
Apne sidhanton se smjhauta nahi karna chahiye the way u think move in that direction only.

Abhimanyu Phougat

[naresh.mehta]

Wow!

The responses were awesome. I just cannot resist myself from resisting. But, then I have two big exams today.

Anyways!

"No government" is an idea that I should keep from you guys. It just drives you nuts just like a red cloth drives a bull bonkers in Yonkers(Any Jatlander from Yonkers?). :))

For now, how about focussing just on privatization?

WAKE UP GUYS. COMMUNISM CAME TUMBLING DOWN LIKE A HOUSE OF CARDS. THIS WHOLE MARXIST THEORY DOES NOT WORK.

SO WHO WILL GIVE ME ONE GOOD EXAMPLE OF A STATE RUN ENTERPRISE THAT RUNS EFFICIENTLY AND PROVIDES SERVICES TO THE PEOPLE WHILE GENERATING POSITIVE REVENUES? I CAN GIVE YOU TONNES OF EXAMPLES OF PRIVATELY RUN AND OWNED ENTERPRISES THAT MEET THESE GOALS?

Private enterprises run better than government enterprises. Dispute this one?

As for the political party, how many of you see these IITans going anywhere? If they will be honest, they will be run over by the bad guys. If they will be corrupt, they will end up becoming like the rest. I dont see any ray of hope.

Now before anyone yells "pessimistic," how about a 100 rupee bet. Lets give them 10 years. If they win, I give you 100 rupees, if they loose you give me 100 rupees, and I will shut up for the rest of my life. I will submit, and wont bitch about government anymore. But if I win, then you guys will have to submit, and agree with me that we need more privatization.

Mr Dhaiya,
First of all please tell frankly ... are you writing all this stuff just to test our patience and to keep the thread going or you seriously mean what you are saying!!!!
If the later is the case .. I am afraid you are in a very sad state of ignorance and dwelling in the fool's paradise for real long time now.. ( ya i knw it is a cliche and seldom used.. but it fits you so well dear..!! )
Privatisation in governance.. Hahaha... You know what is the sole purpose of Govt.. of Constitution and of Beaureaucrats.. it is to protect weak .. and poorer ones from exploitation by the richer people.. to be precise from the opportunist capitalists!! [Though I agree it is not being followed as is expected!] .. Nehru had very clearly stated that Constitution is nothing but a written document which can help Govt to be biased to the cause of poor people.. Unfortunately clever people found hidden meanings and interpretated constitution in there own ways!!
Developing a nation is no big deal... But doing so with full consent of people , without harassing poor is what makes it tedious.. And I am damn sure no privatised institution can do so without encurring losses..
Like a myopic illetrate you are praising private coorps for their success.. but dude have you ever thought why do Govt run institues fail to make so much profit.. Time to wake up and get your basics starightened..
Govt run PSUs are always running in loss.. not because of some lack of efficiency or committment .. but thanks to the social friendly policies of PSUs.. Most of the PSUs were estd long back in smaller towns to give better job opportunities to the people of these remote areas.. There is a reservation to the tune of 30% ... ( Now chill.. you need not brag about stopping reservation.. we all know the pros n cons of it!.. Let the poor come up.. Let them too get an opportunity to see metros if not abroad.. ) .. The profitability was never an issue or aim.. Due to public friendly locations.. PSUs lost lot of money on transportation of raw material and finished products...
Take SBI v/s ICICI.. SBI has 36000 branches in small towns... to support and work for the poor people over there.. Ofcourse the employee there are underutilized and bank accounts much lower than that of some Swiss bak (you are so much in luv with..!!) ... Case with ICICI is opposite.. they target high end customers.. and earn huge margins in profit..
If all of us start thinking like you.. get things privatised ( mind u a private firm works for the sole aim of profit and shareholder value maximisation!) .. who will show passbooks to the poor farmers.. labourers .. dreaming of a brighter future..!!
Dont patronise these big firms like Pepsi.. Walmart.. HLL etc.. which have been growing at the cost of so many small retailors.. Be on the other side of the fence and you will realise the facts..
Kabhi aao yaar apne firangi armaanon ko chor ke.. kabhi aao tho milna.. aapko dikhata hoon mein kaise jeete hain log gawn mein...!!
And dude.. Marxism was never a failure.. I had told you earlier too.. to keep this crap out of discussion... He believed in socialism... but unfortunately stalin turned it into sad communism.. And anyway USSR was always powerful.. they had scared USA to death .. by the high profilic space prog.. then again China .. with the same communist policy is beating India , Korea and even Japan (to an extent) in all the fields..
I dont want a socialism or maoism.. but surely not privatisation in admin.. does this statement even make sense?? Plz do lemme knw how u plan to do so... It is not even feasible dude.. Cmon.. be practical!

[dahiyarules]

Dear Abhimanyu!

You know something. Even I realize the fact that "no government" is never going to happen. Then I look for the reason, as to why? You think people are going to enforce some kind of government on the society? Wrong! Majority of people dont even vote in the world's largest democracy. People have other more mportant things to worry about. The only other party in this equation is the government. Anarchism has been made a crime in the books of law by the government. Becuase they realize the direct threat of anarchism, against the government.

I am not in any sort of race or competition for pupularity. I want people to wake up to the reality that the reason for their suffering is the Governmnet. If not get rid of it entirely, atleast cut its role in our lives to the greatest extent possible.

Well nothing against those who dont agree with me. I love you all, for atleast listening to me. We have a lot else in common.

[dahiyarules]

Dear Naresh !

Go to www.mises.org

Or read my older threads. I am on the verge of copy pasting my arguments now. hehehe

I dont want any country to be scared to death by some other country. If theres any race tha we must particiapate in, it must not be that of weapons and putting man on moon. It should be for creating wealth and opportunities for our societies.

Governmnet just fails at everything that puts a smile on my face.

My simple argument is that evil dies. Government has been dying a slow death as mankind grows. From living in tribes and under kings, we have come a long way living under elected government. Government evolves. This wont stay for ever. Even the mighty Soviet Union collapsed, and the Maoist China is opening up. Capitalism opened the doors of the communist China. So the current system wont last for ever, and it will come to an end just like other evil.

Thanks

Mr Dhaiya,
First of all please tell frankly ... are you writing all this stuff just to test our patience and to keep the thread going or you seriously mean what you are saying!!!!
If the later is the case .. I am afraid you are in a very sad state of ignorance and dwelling in the fool's paradise for real long time now.. ( ya i knw it is a cliche and seldom used.. but it fits you so well dear..!! )
Privatisation in governance.. Hahaha... You know what is the sole purpose of Govt.. of Constitution and of Beaureaucrats.. it is to protect weak .. and poorer ones from exploitation by the richer people.. to be precise from the opportunist capitalists!! [Though I agree it is not being followed as is expected!] .. Nehru had very clearly stated that Constitution is nothing but a written document which can help Govt to be biased to the cause of poor people.. Unfortunately clever people found hidden meanings and interpretated constitution in there own ways!!
Developing a nation is no big deal... But doing so with full consent of people , without harassing poor is what makes it tedious.. And I am damn sure no privatised institution can do so without encurring losses..
Like a myopic illetrate you are praising private coorps for their success.. but dude have you ever thought why do Govt run institues fail to make so much profit.. Time to wake up and get your basics starightened..
Govt run PSUs are always running in loss.. not because of some lack of efficiency or committment .. but thanks to the social friendly policies of PSUs.. Most of the PSUs were estd long back in smaller towns to give better job opportunities to the people of these remote areas.. There is a reservation to the tune of 30% ... ( Now chill.. you need not brag about stopping reservation.. we all know the pros n cons of it!.. Let the poor come up.. Let them too get an opportunity to see metros if not abroad.. ) .. The profitability was never an issue or aim.. Due to public friendly locations.. PSUs lost lot of money on transportation of raw material and finished products...
Take SBI v/s ICICI.. SBI has 36000 branches in small towns... to support and work for the poor people over there.. Ofcourse the employee there are underutilized and bank accounts much lower than that of some Swiss bak (you are so much in luv with..!!) ... Case with ICICI is opposite.. they target high end customers.. and earn huge margins in profit..
If all of us start thinking like you.. get things privatised ( mind u a private firm works for the sole aim of profit and shareholder value maximisation!) .. who will show passbooks to the poor farmers.. labourers .. dreaming of a brighter future..!!
Dont patronise these big firms like Pepsi.. Walmart.. HLL etc.. which have been growing at the cost of so many small retailors.. Be on the other side of the fence and you will realise the facts..
Kabhi aao yaar apne firangi armaanon ko chor ke.. kabhi aao tho milna.. aapko dikhata hoon mein kaise jeete hain log gawn mein...!!
And dude.. Marxism was never a failure.. I had told you earlier too.. to keep this crap out of discussion... He believed in socialism... but unfortunately stalin turned it into sad communism.. And anyway USSR was always powerful.. they had scared USA to death .. by the high profilic space prog.. then again China .. with the same communist policy is beating India , Korea and even Japan (to an extent) in all the fields..
I dont want a socialism or maoism.. but surely not privatisation in admin.. does this statement even make sense?? Plz do lemme knw how u plan to do so... It is not even feasible dude.. Cmon.. be practical!

[naresh.mehta]

Dear Dahiya...
Before getting into any debate please take a proper stand and then stick to it!!
You wanted " No Govt" some 5 days back... Then you decided to get away with " privatisation .. " and now acting like some Darwin you are giving evolution lectures as if it some new concept!! So now you state that the present system of Governance has to be evolved as it is evolving since ever... pahle kings the.. then came colonial powers.. blah blah.. So now you support " evolution of government.. " but then what else was i talking of!! We all have agreed that the systemk of Government has to be evloved... but you initial stand of " No Goverment itself" has been smartly done away with.. by you!!
What ever so what are we supposed to do now??
Shall we rename the The Darwin theory of evolution.. Should it be rechristened as some.. " Dahiyastics theory!! "
Please take a stand and dont be a hypocrat ...!! Evolution is too obvious and well known fact to have been stated by you with such an authority!

And my sincere advice is to stop making castles in air and stop talking in arbitrary relative terms.. Please talk concrete.. it should have some physical relevance.. !

Dear Naresh !

Go to www.mises.org (http://www.mises.org)

Or read my older threads. I am on the verge of copy pasting my arguments now. hehehe

I dont want any country to be scared to death by some other country. If theres any race tha we must particiapate in, it must not be that of weapons and putting man on moon. It should be for creating wealth and opportunities for our societies.

Governmnet just fails at everything that puts a smile on my face.

My simple argument is that evil dies. Government has been dying a slow death as mankind grows. From living in tribes and under kings, we have come a long way living under elected government. Government evolves. This wont stay for ever. Even the mighty Soviet Union collapsed, and the Maoist China is opening up. Capitalism opened the doors of the communist China. So the current system wont last for ever, and it will come to an end just like other evil.

Thanks

[dahiyarules]

Hey Naresh!

My position is still the same. NO GOVERNMENT TOTAL PRIVATIZATION. A BORDERLESS WORLD.

Got it?

The whole idea is that I will walk two steps if you walk one.

I know that not many are willing to buy my idea of no governmnet, just like I am not willing to buy their idea of total socialism.

So, lets start by taking a middle path approach. We privatize all that we can, and see if it works better than it did before privatization. All the while we still have some government. If things are better with privatization, we keep privatizing and keep cutting down on governmnet role in private life till the point that things keep improving.

Let me give you the dictionary meaning of evolution.

A gradual process in which something changes into a different and usually more complex or better form.

Evolution doesnt mean Darwinism. While, Darwinism may mean evolution.

Public administration is evolving. It is a continuous processs. Its happening as I write this. Things today are not the same, as they were yesterday, and they wont be the same tomorrow, as there were today. Every day changes the way politics are conducted in our society. My view is that it is changing in the right direction. Politics is achieving perfection with time. And perfection, I mean less power to the governmnet and more freedom for the individual.

What do you mean by "Dahiyastics Theory?"

I dont think that it is a healthy idea to indulge in name calling. That just shows the immaturity on your part and the fact that you are running out of ideas to keep this discussion sincere and material.

Look Bacche! I dont make castles in the air. I know my potential really well. I have come a long way in my life in very short time. You can call it boasting on my part, but I will call it "sour grapes" on your part. I have worked my a** off and continue to do so. So I reserve the right to talk loud about myself. If someday you match up with me and be loud about yourself, I really wont give a crap about it.

So stop whinning and be more respectful.

Dear Dahiya...
Before getting into any debate please take a proper stand and then stick to it!!
You wanted " No Govt" some 5 days back... Then you decided to get away with " privatisation .. " and now acting like some Darwin you are giving evolution lectures as if it some new concept!! So now you state that the present system of Governance has to be evolved as it is evolving since ever... pahle kings the.. then came colonial powers.. blah blah.. So now you support " evolution of government.. " but then what else was i talking of!! We all have agreed that the systemk of Government has to be evloved... but you initial stand of " No Goverment itself" has been smartly done away with.. by you!!
What ever so what are we supposed to do now??
Shall we rename the The Darwin theory of evolution.. Should it be rechristened as some.. " Dahiyastics theory!! "
Please take a stand and dont be a hypocrat ...!! Evolution is too obvious and well known fact to have been stated by you with such an authority!

And my sincere advice is to stop making castles in air and stop talking in arbitrary relative terms.. Please talk concrete.. it should have some physical relevance.. !

[naresh.mehta]

When you are too stubborn to buy anyother concept.. and keep on repeating the same thing in bole letters over and again.. How do u expect to gain respect from others??
I am sorry .. was a little rude in making the 'dahiyastic' remark .. but then u got to be a lil receptive.. !!
And if u still believe in continuing to assault the system.. God help you!!
And please avoid this word 'bachhe' .. Jats have this uncanny habbit of disparaging people younger in age... You might have crossed miles and gone much higher on the ladder of success.. but those following you are not some creeps here!!
I am proud of myself.. proud of my views.. and proud of whatever i have achieved till date (and it is not that bad either..) ... Please refrain from boasting of your achievements over here.. you will always (believe me!) always find someone better off!
You some noble proze winner or wat btw?? Now dont get panicked again.. and start letting me know of the dollars you have made... Believe me I too dont give a ****!

[naresh.mehta]

When you are too stubborn to buy anyother concept.. and keep on repeating the same thing in bold letters over and again.. How do u expect to gain respect from others??
I am sorry .. was a little rude in making the 'dahiyastic' remark .. but then u got to be a lil receptive.. !!
And if u still believe in continuing to assault the system.. God help you!!
And please avoid this word 'bachhe' .. Jats have this uncanny habbit of disparaging people younger in age... You might have crossed miles and gone much higher on the ladder of success.. but those following you are not some creeps here!!
I am proud of myself.. proud of my views.. and proud of whatever i have achieved till date (and it is not that bad either..) ... Please refrain from boasting of your achievements over here.. you will always (believe me!) always find someone better off!
You some noble proze winner or wat btw?? Now dont get panicked again.. and start letting me know of the dollars you have made... Believe me I too dont give a ****!

[dahiyarules]

This message was responded by pvt. messaging, becuase the thread was deviating from the original topic.

When you are too stubborn to buy anyother concept.. and keep on repeating the same thing in bold letters over and again.. How do u expect to gain respect from others??
I am sorry .. was a little rude in making the 'dahiyastic' remark .. but then u got to be a lil receptive.. !!
And if u still believe in continuing to assault the system.. God help you!!
And please avoid this word 'bachhe' .. Jats have this uncanny habbit of disparaging people younger in age... You might have crossed miles and gone much higher on the ladder of success.. but those following you are not some creeps here!!
I am proud of myself.. proud of my views.. and proud of whatever i have achieved till date (and it is not that bad either..) ... Please refrain from boasting of your achievements over here.. you will always (believe me!) always find someone better off!
You some noble proze winner or wat btw?? Now dont get panicked again.. and start letting me know of the dollars you have made... Believe me I too dont give a ****!

[naresh.mehta]

I guess the thread is over!!
Let the iitians work.. hope they do something real good for the society...
I apologise for being a contributary in deviating the thread from its actual context!

[raj2rif]

Dear Naresh,
I think you guessed right. What the IITns are doing now? Are they still active? Are they getting adequate media attention or have scumbbed to the pressure of the local politicians and the government?
Is there any media where we can know about them more?

[vinodks]

RKji, It was great vision that you showed desire to start a new political party, Bharat Vikas Manch... And the meeting is supposed to be held in 3rd week of April, please letus know updates on that... where and when meeting is to be and who and all are invited?...
Also, whats are agenda points and what is the Party's motto?...
Since deadline is coming on fast, I thought its my duty to remind you... consider me grass-root worker in the party if there is a place...
I believe that life-time of a vision by great leader like you shouldn't be equal to life-time of a thread on Jatland.

-vinod

Let us call it Bharat Vikas Manch. May be members might have better names to suggest. This Manch can act like a true political/ social front. Our main agenda would be to see India a real world power in next 10-20 years. This manch will be run on hard core patriotism and if required, will take even head on against all those whose actions are dragging India backward. There won't be any place for popular type of politics. We will have shadow ministers who will be true experts in their subjects. Let us meet somewhere in 3rd week of April and launch the front with full fanfare...

RK^2

[rkumar]

RKji, It was great vision that you showed desire to start a new political party, Bharat Vikas Manch... And the meeting is supposed to be held in 3rd week of April, please letus know updates on that... where and when meeting is to be and who and all are invited?...
Also, whats are agenda points and what is the Party's motto?...
Since deadline is coming on fast, I thought its my duty to remind you... consider me grass-root worker in the party if there is a place...
I believe that life-time of a vision by great leader like you shouldn't be equal to life-time of a thread on Jatland.

-vinod

Thanks Vinod. All those who are serious about the idea, let me have your names. We will meet on 23rd April 2006 at C-3122, Greenfield Colony, Suraj Kund Badkal Lake Road, Faridabad at about 11 AM.

Rajendra

[ratheetheraist]

Wow!


For now, how about focussing just on privatization?

WAKE UP GUYS. COMMUNISM CAME TUMBLING DOWN LIKE A HOUSE OF CARDS. THIS WHOLE MARXIST THEORY DOES NOT WORK.

SO WHO WILL GIVE ME ONE GOOD EXAMPLE OF A STATE RUN ENTERPRISE THAT RUNS EFFICIENTLY AND PROVIDES SERVICES TO THE PEOPLE WHILE GENERATING POSITIVE REVENUES? I CAN GIVE YOU TONNES OF EXAMPLES OF PRIVATELY RUN AND OWNED ENTERPRISES THAT MEET THESE GOALS?

Private enterprises run better than government enterprises. Dispute this one?

As for the political party, how many of you see these IITans going anywhere? If they will be honest, they will be run over by the bad guys. If they will be corrupt, they will end up becoming like the rest. I dont see any ray of hope.

Now before anyone yells "pessimistic," how about a 100 rupee bet. Lets give them 10 years. If they win, I give you 100 rupees, if they loose you give me 100 rupees, and I will shut up for the rest of my life. I will submit, and wont bitch about government anymore. But if I win, then you guys will have to submit, and agree with me that we need more privatization.

i full heartedly support sumit bhai saab...........arey bhai innee raaannddd dengee india ke politicians........arr mere te bhi le jaiyoo koisaa 100 rupee je we kimme karr ke dikhawen too..........

bt still i wish they swell like the budding flowers...........nd do smthing gd to the nation..........

LEFTISTS TE DESH NEY KUEE MAIN GERANN LAAG RE SAINN.........THEY HAVE JUS DESTROYED KOLKATTAA.........NOW THEY R IN MOODS TO DESTROY THE COUNTRY...........BL***Y Y R THEY OPPOSING PRIVATIZATION OF AIRPORTS.................????????????:mad::mad:

[rkumar]

........LEFTISTS TE DESH NEY KUEE MAIN GERANN LAAG RE SAINN.........THEY HAVE JUS DESTROYED KOLKATTAA.........NOW THEY R IN MOODS TO DESTROY THE COUNTRY...........BL***Y Y R THEY OPPOSING PRIVATIZATION OF AIRPORTS.................????????????:mad::mad:

Exactly and this is the reason that counter groups are needed to support right actions of government. If 2000 leftists can hold the nation at ransom, who is to be blamed ? Giving lectures on Jatland or in drawing rooms is not going to help. Right minded people have to come into streets to oppose these leftists. Baba Ramdev incidence is fresh in the memory of us all. How collective action of people has forced Karats and her alikes into their shells. So come out in open and support right actions of any government. Come into streets in large numbers to counter thse leftists hooligans.

Rajendra

[positivelook]

Exactly and this is the reason that counter groups are needed to support right actions of government. If 2000 leftists can hold the nation at ransom, who is to be blamed ? Giving lectures on Jatland or in drawing rooms is not going to help. Right minded people have to come into streets to oppose these leftists. Baba Ramdev incidence is fresh in the memory of us all. How collective action of people has forced Karats and her alikes into their shells. So come out in open and support right actions of any government. Come into streets in large numbers to counter thse leftists hooligans.

Rajendra

Very well Said RK Sir and coming into streets will definitely improve the scene but the question is under which banner. About the new political party idea i wanna ask tht do we really need it and do we have the resources and manpower to form a strong political party. Well i doubt it cos its hard to make a political party from Jatland especially. But still with all these doubts i beleive there is a need of coming into strreets to oppose all the wrong decisions of govt.

Abhimanyu Phougat

[rkumar]

Very well Said RK Sir and coming into streets will definitely improve the scene but the question is under which banner. About the new political party idea i wanna ask tht do we really need it and do we have the resources and manpower to form a strong political party. Well i doubt it cos its hard to make a political party from Jatland especially. But still with all these doubts i beleive there is a need of coming into strreets to oppose all the wrong decisions of govt.

Abhimanyu Phougat

I am not talking of a political party like others who will fight elections and sit in assemblies and parliament. All I am talking is to make a sort of national front to support right actions of any government so that hooligans like leftists cannot hold government to ransom. Also this front can act as think-tank. If people like Arundhati Roy and Medha Patekar can hold all development, our front will act as a counter to all such people and their actions. We will be some thing like BKU, but supporting mainly the right actions of governments and fighting with the people who obstruct good development projects. I don't think we need loads of money for this. If something is useful for whole community, we will certainly get the support of people and they will come in streets in large numbers. You know how farmers were mobilised by Tikait. I am fully convinced that we can do it and there is urgent need for such front in India.

RK^2

[ratheetheraist]

Exactly and this is the reason that counter groups are needed to support right actions of government. If 2000 leftists can hold the nation at ransom, who is to be blamed ? Giving lectures on Jatland or in drawing rooms is not going to help. Right minded people have to come into streets to oppose these leftists. Baba Ramdev incidence is fresh in the memory of us all. How collective action of people has forced Karats and her alikes into their shells. So come out in open and support right actions of any government. Come into streets in large numbers to counter thse leftists hooligans.

Rajendra

rk unclee jii..........aaoo kitte bulla lyoo inn kaamaan taain.......katii bhaaje aawengee........inki issii tesiii........leftists kii.........chaloo kheench lyoo te apnii beltaan neyy saare........arr aap ke guidance main aapan kathhe ho kee dhuma thaa denge...........

[rkumar]

rk unclee jii..........aaoo kitte bulla lyoo inn kaamaan taain.......katii bhaaje aawengee........inki issii tesiii........leftists kii.........chaloo kheench lyoo te apnii beltaan neyy saare........arr aap ke guidance main aapan kathhe ho kee dhuma thaa denge...........

Great. Nation certainly needs an aggressive anti-communist front as parties like Congress, BJP etc cannot come into streets and fight the way communists create nonsense on every major national issue. Only a Jat brigade of tough guys can handle them. They have reduced major industrial towns like Faridabad into shambles. India can never become manufacturing hub till communists backed trade unions have the upper hand. Only a non-political front can handle irresponsible communists of this country. Let us join hands and make a front. Let us meet in Delhi on 23rd April in large numbers and decide the organisation and the future course of action. Let us recruit committed jawans from every village and contribute in nation building. We need just commitment and little time and certainly no money for such things.

RK^2

[vikaskundu]

uncle ji i think for this to happen we need to luk at sum of previous events, many threads like this were started bfore but the subtantial progress is doubted,acc to my budhi we need sumthin like follwin things
1.a leader who takes all the resposibilty, decisions
2. commited workers( i dont no how people with jobs frm 8 in mor to 8 in evenin will do it)
3. we need money nd a lot of it, yahan (india ) apko agar kuch bhi karna hai to u wil have to spend money a lot of it
4.wtever happened to the national rohtak meet???? abhi tak to vo bhi arrange nahi hui hai
5 . it will take lifetimes of several than may b sumthin cud b achieved
6. uncleji r u ready to devote rest of ur lifetime to this ?
7. money cud b from nris of haryan but they(all ) will not do it for sum jat org, it will need morover a general base


i am ever supporting of this nd hoping for best

[rkumar]

uncle ji i think for this to happen we need to luk at sum of previous events, many threads like this were started bfore but the subtantial progress is doubted,acc to my budhi we need sumthin like follwin things
1.a leader who takes all the resposibilty, decisions
2. commited workers( i dont no how people with jobs frm 8 in mor to 8 in evenin will do it)
3. we need money nd a lot of it, yahan (india ) apko agar kuch bhi karna hai to u wil have to spend money a lot of it
4.wtever happened to the national rohtak meet???? abhi tak to vo bhi arrange nahi hui hai
5 . it will take lifetimes of several than may b sumthin cud b achieved
6. uncleji r u ready to devote rest of ur lifetime to this ?
7. money cud b from nris of haryan but they(all ) will not do it for sum jat org, it will need morover a general base


i am ever supporting of this nd hoping for best

I am aware of all the points Vikas you have mentioned.

RK^2

[atul.jhajhria]

God save their party. :D