Army census

[gsvijay1]

Lot of ink is wasted, in print media, in writing about Muslim survey in Indian army. I think this is not necessary at all. There are few thing in a country which you keep above politics, your nation army is one of them. When our solders fight with enemies they have to trust the person sitting next to them if they start thinking about his religion they will never be able to trust him. If govt. want to do some survey they should do it for all the minorities not for just one minority community.

What other members feel?

http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1626137,0008.htm
http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1626137,0008.htm

[jagmohan]

Dear All,

What the Government has done is unacceptable. Had I been the Chief of Army Staff, I would have resigned.

This is preposterous. absurd, foolish, ridiculous, senseless, unreasonable and wrong, to say the least.

Having served in a Regiment that has 50% Muslims, I can say without any doubt whtsoever that Muslims in the Army are treated as Soldiers of India, at par with all others and are as brave, if not more than the martial races. Period.

During the Annual OBA of my school, I came to know that one Col Doddami was a Muslim. I had known him since 1968 and came to know of his religion only in Dec 2005, not that it mattered to me.

Ye Politicians is desh ko phir gulam bana ke rakh deinge.

Regards,

JS Malik

[captmanjeet]

Rajendra Sachar Committee has been appointed by the Prime Minister Office to find out the number of Muslims in the armed forces. The result is a known thing. The number of muslims in the armed forces are very less when compared to the entire population of muslims in India. So what is the Prime Minister going to do? Recruit more muslims into the armed forces to make it secular?

The functioning of our armed forces are exceptionally very well when compared to our neighboring countries. There has not been any instability or coup attempt like how it has happened in Pakistan. So why go and invite trouble? Even Christian soldiers are very less when compared to the christian population. I think taking that survey is the next thing after the Muslim survey.

So along with Gurkha regiment, Sikh regiment, we will have Muslim regiment, Christian regiment in our armed forces. Is this what the intention is? We should discuss the result of having a bigger number of Muslims in the armed forces in the different thread.

The idea of having “secular“ Indian armed forces came from a book written by a muslim in the US, Omar Khalidi, (Khaki and Ethnic Violence in India)http://www.telegraphindia.com/1031003/asp/opinion/story_2417653.asp. Khalidi is an assistant professor at the Massachusetts Institute of Techonology in the United States.

All I can say is that, this survey and the idea of secular armed forces is certainly going to affect the basic function of the armed forces itself. Better not to mess up with this and let it remain as it is. Let the bunch of jokers at the center do what ever they want with the number of seats in the consituencies or reservation in other government jobs. Do not get into department of education, private companies and armed forces at least.

[mukeshkumar007]

http://www.ndtv.com/topstories/showtopstory.asp?slug=No+survey+on+Muslims+in+Army %3A+Pranab&id=18772&category=National

[rahulkharb]

Kangress kangress kangress ..... wat else wuld u expect frm thm. desh kay aur tukde karne pay lage hue hai.. :mad:

[raj2rif]

I think any one who proposed the idea of making the armed forces to be secular based on religion, should be investigated and thoroughly interrogated. It is crazy to even order a survey on this subject, leave aside doing any thing after the outcome of survey.

I guess, soldiering is a religion in itself. When you are in uniform, your religion is your regiment and the country you serve. All those who are advocating the reservation for any caste, community, or religion in the armed forces, should be debarred from taking up any official position and should be put in Siachen Glacier for a three year term.

It is so frustrating and disgusting to read such things. If you take a survey, the people from Gujarat are probably minimum in the armed forces. How about then having reservation state wise. Let us not divide our armed forces, for in spite of their shortcomings, they have stood the test of time and have served the nation well.

[sampuran]

Most people realise the perils of such a communal exercise. But interestingly, they find themselves so helpless in front of a shameless government that is **** scared of Islamic terror.

But they have not learnt a bit from the past - More you give in to the blackmailer and terrorist, the more he wants. That has been the strategy of Islamic clergy and ideologist since the time they were defeted militarily. As long as they were militarily strong, they would simply cut off the heads of the kafirs.

The charter of demands put up by the muslim leadershio before Sonia Maino is interesting - Recognition of madarssa education by CBSE, AICTE, at par with any other academic or professionally qualification.

Reservations for muslims in all government jobs as per the percentage of their population

Constitutional recognition of Sharia courts.

No Indian court should have any juricdiction over the civil matters of any muslim.

All personal immovable property (houses and agricultural lands) should belong to the Waqf or such muslim body. The Indian state should have no right or juricdiction over such lands.

Repael of article 44 that states - The State should endeavour to enact a uniform civil code.

Imagine the impact of such demands ! Then these people claim that they are patriotic Indians.


First thing that this survey is going to do is to raise a religion based feeling of differentiation amongst the soldiers.Then they will issue orders to recruit more muslims with lowered standards. Then there would be resentment in the forces. Combat capabilities will drop.

Next, more intellegence will leak out to the Pakis and other enemy countries. Since Kargil the forces have realised that most of their tactical information is available to the enemy within a day. In some areas like J&K, UP, Assam Bengal, wherever sizable muslims live nearby the cantoments, the intellegence leaks out within minutes.

The moment muslim population reaches i critical figure, in any organisation or nation, there is a fast deterioration in law and order. In Trinidad, 15% of muslims tried to stage a coup because they thought they had required size within the army. Luckly they didnt succeed.
Indian Army or any other service has not ever thought of spooking any elected government, will it remain patriotic if more muslims join, is for people to guess !

[lucky]

what can u except from congress it is run by indias biggest fools. those poeple can make sonia as prime minster thats another thing the could.for me it is party of bunch of fools:mad:........ and we ppl elected them:mad:
kashmir issue kaam hai muslim and hindu mai diffrnce lanai kaliya. ki abh ya issue bhi start hojai ga. army mai apni ablitiy sai ana chahia naki religion sai or muslim kyo phir christan ki bhi kuro:mad:

[ratheetheraist]

still i m too young to quote on this sensitive issue bt still i would like to share my views here .......

y only muslims r considered as minorities y noy jain s, budhhists, sikhs, who constitute jus 1% of the total population f country ,,,,,,

and even if they did so thn y r they tring it to bring the regionalism feeling in our army......have they ever thought f the effect it going to have in our army....

Y SHALL THEY HAVE NY EFFECT????? BECAUSE YE CONGRESS PEOPLE HAMESHA HI MUSLIMS KE SAATH GOTIYAAN FIT KARTE RAHE HAIN ...JUS FOR THE PETTY POLITICS..........

AUR GANDHI AUR NEHRU NE TO TRUE POLTICIANS HONE KE GUR DIKHA DIE THE JAB BAANT DIYA THA DESH KO SIRF ISLIYE KE UN LOGON NE KISI EK DESH PAR RAAJ KARNA THA ........AUR JINNAH UNKE RAASTE ME AAYA TO PAKISTAAN NAAAM KA TUKDAA USKE MUH ME DE DIYA.....NA JAANE AB KISKI BAARI HAI ........

AFSOOS KARNE SE KUCH NAHI HOGA DOSTO KUCH KARO AUR DESH KO BACHAO .....AUR SHAYAD HUM YAHAN YE SAB DISCUSS KAR KE ACHA KAAM KAR RAHE HAIN EK DOOSRE KO SANDESH DE RAHE HAIN KE KUCH KAROOO.......

JAI HIND HIAN HUM JAI HIN KI SENA

[gsvijay1]

When Sir Robert lockhart, the first Commander-in-Chief of Independent India, presented to Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru a paper on the proposed size and shape of the Army in the light of the perceived threats, Nehru’s response was: “Rubbish, total rubbish. We don’t need a defence plan. Our policy is non-violence. We foresee no military threats. Scrap the Army. The police is good enough to meet our security needs”.

It was the invasion of Kashmir a few days later in October 1947 that kept the Army going. But it still did not change Nehru’s mind. So much so that even after the Chinese debacle in 1962, he had not shed his bias towards the Army. The result was that in December 1962, when the Army embarked upon rapid expansion after years of neglect, Nehru in a letter to Bertrand Russel said: “The danger of military mentality spreading in India and the power of the Army increasing bothered him”.

[priyanka_sindhu]

I guess, soldiering is a religion in itself. When you are in uniform, your religion is your regiment and the country you serve. All those who are advocating the reservation for any caste, community, or religion in the armed forces, should be debarred from taking up any official position and should be put in Siachen Glacier for a three year term.

I think what you say here is very true....but only coming from an officer who hasn't served under the present scenario. As it exists, it is only religion, caste, nepotism that is being promoted by the sikhs today. No officer, however competent will be allowed to get ahead if he isn't a fellow "turbanator". It is disgusting, 'coz tomorrow if this country needs to go to war we have a bunch of incompetent surds in command, and they sure will bring us down to our knees. The old school of thought that existed from the time of our fathers and grandfathers was that we are here, fighting for a common goal, which is the safety and securitty of our citizens and our Motherland...but today, none of that exists as like parasites the sikhs are just pulling each other up. I think this is a wake up call to our leaders to actually take a look at what is happening within the system instead of wasting precious time on other inconsequential matters like doing a census for the Muslims in the forces.

[rraajjeevv]

Manjeet,

Omar Khalidi is not an Assistant Professor at MIT. he is just a(reference) librarian of the Aga Khan Collection there. See this link -
http://archnet.org/shared/community-member.tcl?user_id=4960.

The biggest hoax being perpetrated is that he is some sort of senior academic and an expert to boot from MIT.

He did his PhD from University of Wales (ranked a lowly 61), Lampeter, UK, most probably in Islamic Studies (http://www.lamp.ac.uk).

Although everyone has been quoting this person and his book 'Khaki and the Ethnic Violence in India', no one has bothered to question his qualifications. This particular book of his has been shred to pieces at http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MONITOR/ISSUE6-4/nandv2.html.

Rajeev

[captmanjeet]

Manjeet,

Omar Khalidi is not an Assistant Professor at MIT. he is just a(reference) librarian of the Aga Khan Collection there. See this link -
http://archnet.org/shared/community-member.tcl?user_id=4960.

The biggest hoax being perpetrated is that he is some sort of senior academic and an expert to boot from MIT.

He did his PhD from University of Wales (ranked a lowly 61), Lampeter, UK, most probably in Islamic Studies (http://www.lamp.ac.uk).

Although everyone has been quoting this person and his book 'Khaki and the Ethnic Violence in India', no one has bothered to question his qualifications. This particular book of his has been shred to pieces at http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/MONITOR/ISSUE6-4/nandv2.html.

Rajeev
Thanks rajiv,
Thanks for the information reagarding khalidi.Actually i tried to gain the info regarding khalidi but all those places says that he wasd a professer in MIT.any way thanks for the info

[rraajjeevv]

Hi Manjeet,
I do not think anybody would have tried to find out his profession. In India we do not tend to question a person with a degree from abroad. This MIT link (http://libraries.mit.edu/guides/subjects/islamicarchitecture/index.html)
too says that he is a librarian.

I came across some more information about him. He has a very sinister agenda. He wants to carve a muslim majority state from Andhra Pradeshand Bihar.

Swapan Dasgupta who writes for Daily Pioneer (http://www.dailypioneer.com) mentions in one his articles that -

"In an interview to Radiance, the Jamaat-e-Islami weekly, Khalidi gave a taste of his agenda. "We need Muslim-majority districts for three reasons. First, concentrated areas provide security.

Second, they provide an environment that is conducive to our cultural independence. Third, they provide a political base through which our people can be elected." He suggested a Deccan province by merging Hyderabad, Rangareddy and Gulbarga districts, an Urdu-speaking State covering Kishanganj, Katihar and Purnea districts in Bihar. "There are regions in Bengal and UP where Muslims can be in majority. Though a large number of Muslims would still be left out, having these strongholds is important for their future." "

Dasgupta found the above reference from here -

Indian minority empowerment through political representation (http://www.milligazette.com/Archives/2005/16-31Mar05-Print-Edition/163103200506.htm)

But when Dr.Omar Khalidi, the Hyderabad born MIT academic, suggested another way for improving Muslim representation, he was attacked for allegedly advocating the "Islamization" of India. Explaining his call for creating Muslim majority districts in an interview to the Radiance he said : "We need Muslim-majority districts for three reasons. First, concentrated areas provide security. Second, they provide an environment that is conducive to our cultural independence. Third, they provide a political base through which our people can be elected. At present, constituencies have been created in a way that our numbers don't add up to elect adequate legislators.... Hyderabad and Rangareddy in Andhra Pradesh and Gulbarga and certain talukas could be merged to create a Deccan province. Similarly in Bihar, the regions of Katihar, Kishanganj and Purniya can be made into an Urdu-speaking province or a Union Territory. There are regions in Bengal and UP where Muslims can be in majority. Though, a large number of Muslims would still be left out, having these strongholds is important for their future. This would ensure proper political representation in States and we would have our voice in Parliament.... A decade ago, it was not fashionable to talk about reservation for Muslims. Today, Muslims have reservation in Kerala and Karnataka. In Andhra, too, we are likely to get reservation. Don't judge everything from what's happening today. Huq liye jaten hain pesh nahin kiye jate."