Should a widow remarry or not..????? [Archive]

vikasgulia222

February 24th, 2006, 10:24 AM

Most of the time blamed for the fate of their husbands in an environment in which remarriage for women is out of the question, widows in India are commonly condemned to solitary lives of misery.
But now as the time is changing we people have started talking about the freedom given to a widow to remarry and start a new life but how many of us accept this fact in our own life and how much..? When a person loses his wife then every member of his family and all relatives start thinking about his remarriage at the earliest but we don’t care that much if a woman loses her husband. We all know that a single woman without her own family is open to exploitation and harassment but still we let a widow to continue her miserable life on her own.

This kind of general opinion of our society towards widow remarriage stems from man's desire to monopolize all the good things in life.

lucky

February 24th, 2006, 10:45 AM

well as i have seen from my own eyes yes people do try to haras an widow or any single lady. i do except second marrige and i mean it but the thing comes here wuld the otherperson love her kids of first husband like own and mostly they donot know:(. they want to marry for money or for lady to care of his kids.

but ya if the person is good then women should she need love she has her share of life. and IN I AM SAYING OPENLY SHE NEED PHYSICAL ATACHMENT ALSO. when males need it then u not female. :mad:

but ya our socity thinks of male not female.........:rolleyes:

sunitahooda

February 24th, 2006, 11:51 AM

I must say its a good question raised here by you Gulia Bhai. My own Bhai expired in an accident and my bhabhi was merely 24-25 yrs and all relatives thought of getting her settled with my cousin but could not do it due to interference of my Mami and the age difference between the cousin and bhabi....Since then i have been feeling and i wish that i was in place of my Father and i could Marry my bhabi like my own daughter....woman also have feelings and when a woman accepts some other women's kids then why cant men accept some other men's kids?

sansanwalamit

February 24th, 2006, 11:59 AM

Why should'nt she, unless she herself does'nt want to, I do not see any reason that should prevent her from remarrying.

sampuran

February 24th, 2006, 01:04 PM

cooljat

February 24th, 2006, 01:06 PM

Agreed, A widow should marry, if she wants too.
thanks gulia bro for raisin a nice topic!

rock on
Jit

When a vidhur can, why not a vidhwa ?

This is a challange to our young Jat bhais to

1 Have the courage to stand up to misplaced social dogmas

2 Have the large heartedness to accept and love the children that the widow may have from previous marriage.

rkumar

February 24th, 2006, 01:24 PM

I don't think among jats we have this as a big problem. Most of the time widows are married to brothers or cousins of the late husband. May be in some rare cases widows themselves decide not to remarry..Problem comes only when there is no suitable match in the family of late husband and lady has kids. Neither family nor widow will like to give away kids and marry some one outside late husband's family.

RK^2

downtoearth

February 24th, 2006, 02:54 PM

gsvijay1

February 24th, 2006, 04:58 PM

A widow should remarry if she can find a suitable match or her family can arrange one. She should definitely remarry.

I remeber one case where a young army office expire just three month after marriage. His wife walked away with all the money to her parents house, leaving nothing for boy's parents. I don't know if somebody marry these kind of widows.

abhirana

February 24th, 2006, 05:33 PM

i dont know how many women in rural households tell about their feelings

yes in cities where the views of people are different there are such women...

still whatever may be the case marriage shouldn't be a problem

but it depends whether the lady in question is ok with marriage or is she forced to get married...

and yes how many males are there who are ready to accept a widow as their wife.

rkumar

February 24th, 2006, 07:02 PM

Leave aside the technical and social aspect of widow/ widower marriage, let us now look at emotional aspects. Childern look at the parents as role model. Its extremely hard for childern to identify either of their parents with third person. Problem is even more difficult if childern are grown up. In most of the cases childern revolt openly or silently. One should prepare enough ground before jumping for the remarriage. If childern are grown up, one should prepare them mentally and gently, else it can lead to many problems later on for all the parties concerned. Whole thing might sound simple, but in reality its not so.

RK^2

ravichaudhary

February 24th, 2006, 07:59 PM

When a vidhur can, why not a vidhwa ?

This is a challange to our young Jat bhais to

1 Have the courage to stand up to misplaced social dogmas

2 Have the large heartedness to accept and love the children that the widow may have from previous marriage.

Sampuran

You may not be aware, the widow remarraige among the jats, is not stigmatized as in the Sanathna Dharam Hindus.

Widow re marriage is actively encouraged, and has been since Vedic times.It has various names, Karewa, Chadar, and so on.

If the girl is of marriageable age, the remarriage is very actively encouraged.

In earlier tradtional times, to one of the extended family, or if none could be found to someone suitable from outside.

The question we are asking is,from an historical interest, why Hindu Sanathan Dharam dogma, separated from the Vedic stream which the Jats follow.

and also when did this separation occur?

If I could ask a technical question, and you do npt take offenec, how is that you do not know anything about this Jat tradition?

Could you share with us what goth you are, and what is your village ?

Ravi Chaudhary

kharub

February 24th, 2006, 11:02 PM

Widow re-marrige is in no way forbidden or even stigmatised in Jat Society ...

i am quite young and have not been living in India for at least 10 years ..... and i also hail from an urban Haryanvi background and even i know it ......

i am quite surprised by the lack of knowledge of Jat Traditions among my senior blood brothers and sisters ......

thats really unfortunate ...........

My grandfather's (Nana) elder brother died in 2'nd World War and thus my grandmother who was his brother's wife was later was married to him.

And i know one of my friend's mother was also re-married in a similar way ...

so this is a common Jat Custom

fool4love

February 24th, 2006, 11:57 PM

i don see any reason.. y she sudn't re-marry..........its her life.. she can live the way she want...!!
i know.. our customs... log won't make it easy for her... but then.. its up to her... if she wants to live for others.. or for herself!!

lucky

February 25th, 2006, 08:06 AM

well what i know a male presence makes lot of diffrence a lot. in socity:( remarrge helps a single women to survie:(

jyotijoon

February 25th, 2006, 10:19 AM

rkumar

February 25th, 2006, 03:32 PM

Inside husband's family is the only best option I can think and we Jats already follow that tradition. This way Childern get the best possible alternative. Emotional issues still remain, but I suupose one has to always compromise in life. Accepting elder brother's wife as one's wife and then adjusting to that is quite a big task and takes time. I have seen cases where younger brother's wife got married to elder brother who was widower. All said and done, there are strong emotional issues involved in all these relationships. Elder brother's wife who is supposed to be equivalant to mother till otherday can not enter the heart and mind as wife suddenly. Same is for younger brother's wife who is treated like a daughter by elder brother and then how to treat her like wife, is not an easy matter. I know even cases where widow bhabhi literally brought up her young Dewar like her son and then had to marry the same guy..I am sure these are very tough acts in practical life. whatever one might call them socially, emotionally they spell quite a nightmare.

RK^2

sampuran

February 25th, 2006, 07:03 PM

Sampuran

You may not be aware, the widow remarraige among the jats, is not stigmatized as in the Sanathna Dharam Hindus.

Widow re marriage is actively encouraged, and has been since Vedic times.It has various names, Karewa, Chadar, and so on.

If the girl is of marriageable age, the remarriage is very actively encouraged.

In earlier tradtional times, to one of the extended family, or if none could be found to someone suitable from outside.

The question we are asking is,from an historical interest, why Hindu Sanathan Dharam dogma, separated from the Vedic stream which the Jats follow.

and also when did this separation occur?

If I could ask a technical question, and you do npt take offenec, how is that you do not know anything about this Jat tradition?

Could you share with us what goth you are, and what is your village ?

Ravi Chaudhary

Ravi Bhai,
Namaskar.
I think you got it wrong. And , my mistake as well, I did not think for the need to clarify.

There is no stigma to widow re-marriage amongst Jats. We see it all around. We have many cases within our village and kunba.
But they are all within the extended family, at the most.
What if the widow does not want to marry within the family ?
What if there are no marriageable men in the family ?
Should she be forced or feel compelled because alternatives are not available ?

When I said that we need young men to have the courage I as talking about being able to hold the hand of a widow who is an outsider, not from the family.

As RK bhai saheb says when children are also there, its a slightly difficult issue. The parents of the deceased boy have to approach it with lot of compassion and sense of duty to the widow, as their own daughter.

Somebody raised a point about a lady married to an armyman walking out with all his money. The sad part is that rules in India are made by uneducated men - uneducated in the culture of the soiety. It is like a village panchayat outlawing 'sagotr'marriage, but the Court declaring nothing wrong with that.
I guess, the moment an army man marriage, his parents cease to be his kin. The first plac goes to his wife. So as long as she is alive, in the event of the death of the man, all his property goes to the widow.

Obviously somebody who made this rule was convent educated half-Englishman, whose parents would have disowned him at the age of sixteen, like they do in Christian societies. Had he been Indian by education, he would have known that sons and daughters in India look after their parents and grand-parents till the samadhi.

narenderkharb

February 25th, 2006, 07:58 PM

jyotijoon

February 25th, 2006, 09:16 PM

dndeswal

February 25th, 2006, 10:00 PM

.
An unnecessary debate is going on due to lack of knowledge of our age-old traditions which have proven their strength beyond doubt. I mean we Jats are true inheritors of Vedic culture. The debate about remarriage of widows has been continuing for thousands of years. As Kalkhande Sahab has rightly pointed out above, we Jats are already following the best possible options.

In the Chapter 4 of Satyarthprakash, there is a detailed description about the options for a widow. It is not possible to translate everything here. The Vedic definition of word "Devar" is given as under, in Satyarthprakash:

Quote

Question: If there is no younger brother of the deceased husband, with whom the widow should try her 'Niyog' ?

Answer : With Devar. But the meaning of 'Devar is not as you think. The younger brother, the elder brother, someone of our caste ("varnaa") or of a higher caste - 'Devar' is he with whom the widow makes the ritual of 'Niyog' .

UNQUOTE

The definition of 'Niyog' is given in detail. We should read it in the book. In short, 'Niyog' used to be a ritual where a widow chooses a person for the purpose of conception. Such a person has no relationship with her, the children or their property, after the children are born. He also has no responsibility to look after those children. The children born will deemed to be the sons and daughters of the deceased father. Pandavas were born with the same method. Same was the case with Dhritrashtra, Pandu and Vidur - the biological father of all three was Vedvyas.

Discussing a topic is different but the realities to be faced are quite contrary.

There is perhaps no need to follow Western thoughts of today - it is a wastage of time. Our Vedic culture always gives great respect to womenfolk even in circumstances such as after being a widow. Later, the "Hindu" customs were the creations of a few vested interests i.e. the so called religious 'pundits'. And we Jats are the inheritors of that Vedic culture, not the "Hindu" one.
.

dahiyarules

February 26th, 2006, 10:16 AM

sampuran

February 26th, 2006, 12:13 PM

Dear Sampuran bhai

We had a genuine feeling that you are unaware of jat traditions and jat ethos.
I mean equality ,dignity of labour,secular approach,and a pride in our history.

Though you have never said I am a jat, saying I may be mali,rajput or jat,sometimes you give vague references as I started this thread do we jats have......,

These things apart,we really appreciate your concern for nation and your intelligence,but your hate for budhism,muslim,christian,and your strange logics that rajput took swords to defend hindhuism,jats are as scum as brahmans,they can be related to chamars and so on forces us to wonder what your real motives are?

So please clear the picture,even if a non jat you are most welcome.

Kharab Bhai.
Earlier on you had asked similar question, hope you read my reply properly.
Let me repeat. My Gotr is Gahlot. In UP, Haryana and Delhi Gahlots are Jats. But through this forum only I came to know that in Rajasthan Gehlots are considered to be Maalis. Of course, I had read in media that Sh Ashok Gehlot was a lower caste Jat. Which obviously did not make sense because Jats have no casteism amongst themselves.
Now choic is yours what you want to consider me. I would like to keep believing what has been the norm in Delhi & Haryana.

Since when have expression of unorthodox or uncommon ideas become measure of a person's lineage or sincere intentions ? Lets say I was not a Jat, will that materially change the nature of the discussion. I think we are digressing for no valuable reason.

Who told you I hate Buddhism ? Noneof my posts evn indicates that a veee bit. I had merely pointed out the weakness of Buddhism in that post about history of Jats in reply to Ch Ashok verma's thread. Seeing the condition of Buddhist lands since the advent of Christianity and Islam, it is cler to everyone that the social structure proposed by Buddhism lacks that element of security and safety. So when the Muslims came, there was no body to fight them, and they either massacred the Buddhists or forced them to convert. Does it mean I hate Buddhism ?

Ditto for Islam and Christianity. I think these are ideologies at controlling political power rather than religions. Because both are bereft of spirituality. Just try to giv one example of any spiritual work, experience, evolution, thesis that these two have producd since their advent.

One certainly cant hate them evn though their tenets and history are full of cruelity and immorality. Hate does not change the world for better. Hate karne ke liye to ye dono hi kafi hain.

positivelook

February 26th, 2006, 01:22 PM

I think everthing matters on individual to individual and time so it all depend on circumsatnces and age and family background. So no comments more than this.

Abhimanyu Phougat

narenderkharb

February 26th, 2006, 02:18 PM

jyotijoon

February 27th, 2006, 11:16 AM

Question is: Who all are willing to marry widows. I see some very patronizing males on this forum supporting the idea. But, if someday you were facing a decision to get married, would you be willing to marry a widow?

Good question Sumit ji.kya koi bhi apna beta ki shaadi ek vidhawa se karna chahiga.(If she is not from their family.) khana asaan hai, karna mushkil hi

sampuran

February 27th, 2006, 01:03 PM

Sampuran Bhai

You are again avoiding,a simple straight forward question through excellent words craftmanhip as you avoided earlier also.

Are you a jat or not?

You know very well in haryana up and delhi ghelot surname is used by different groups from malis, rajput and jats.

Please give one example from Haryana or Delhi.

But ghelot jats are JATS not considered jats as you want to suggest.

What does that mean ?

Though different jat surnames are adopted by different sections but their casts never change,so I HOPE YOU ARE VERY WELL AWARE OF IT.

In another discussion about casteism you said we Jats dont believe in castes ? In still another one you said Jat is a race, a race, race. To me that doesnt seem very clear.

Now whether this will alter the coruse of our discussion, certainly not.

But we will know that we have to walk an extra yard to convince sampuran bhai,which we will certainly do.

As you might be very well aware that racial affinity do colour your perceptions.

The topic was widow remarriage. And my first reply was wrt a post by a member - If I were in place of my father, I would have re-married my bhabhi as my own daughter.
But rather than understanding the menaning and context of what I wrote, you decided to go by Ravi bhai's scepticism that I was not aware of Jat traditions . And by inference I was not a Jat !

Racial affinity colouring my perception ? I think its the other way around. Please read most of my posts on the site. I have been trying to say that we hav to rise above racial or caste prejudices.

A recent example I mentioned about sirsili village when we stressed in western UP most Tomars are jats ,one guy quoted this village from internet and wrote see this rajput tomar village.The facts as we know thanks to the efforts of rahul were just the opposite ,what he said.

You see how these guys who converted Jat tomar rulers of delhi for approximately four centuries in to Rajputs,are dong it on mass level converting entire village to jats in to village of rajputs.

This kind of activity is certainly reprehensible. Still to my mind there is no racial differentiation between Jats and Rajputs. Differences are created by vested interests and ignorance.
Again we can keep fighting amongst ourselves and let the external enemies nibble onto our roots.

I hope my intentions are not wrtong.

Not at all. Its most welcom. 'Shanka' aur 'tark-vitark' se hi gyan badhta hai.
But hope we can switch to e-mail rather than clogging this topic.

narenderkharb

February 27th, 2006, 03:05 PM

Ghelot saheb only one word reqired ,Yes or NO,if You are, say Yes I am a jat,as we all jats do.This is the last time otherwise, I won't ask again.

arunshamli

February 27th, 2006, 03:11 PM

Ghelot saheb only one word reqired ,Yes or NO,if You are, say Yes I am a jat,as we all jats do.This is the last time otherwise, I won't ask again.

Naredar bhai kya bacho jaise jid laga rakhi hai....asking the same thing again and again.....dont you think this is too much..????????

narenderkharb

February 27th, 2006, 03:23 PM

Arun tum kah rahe ho to lo jid chodh di.

jat-is-jat

February 27th, 2006, 04:24 PM

Arun tum kah rahe ho to lo jid chodh di.

BUT WHAT IS WRONG WITH SAMPURAN SINGH? WHY HE DIDN'T SAY "YES I AM A JAT"

ravichaudhary

February 27th, 2006, 08:39 PM

what is suitable match for her if she has very young kids?
can she marry to a unmarried person or she should marry to a divorced,widower,older than her...........?
If a unmarried boy wants to marry her will his family accept her and her kids or it will be a stigma to their family.

It is perfectly acceptable that a widowed girl, be married off, to anyone who is suitable, be they in the extended family, and for greater clarity,or outside the extended family if no suitable match could be found in the extended family.

This was and is the tradition.

In future , we may expect less of remmariage in the extended family, and the norm to be of re-marriage of the widowed girl outside the family.

Widow re marriage is also now being accepted in " sanathan dharmi" hindus, and we will see more and more of that in the future.

ravichaudhary

February 27th, 2006, 08:46 PM

.
Our Vedic culture always gives great respect to womenfolk even in circumstances such as after being a widow. Later, the "Hindu" customs were the creations of a few vested interests i.e. the so called religious 'pundits'. And we Jats are the inheritors of that Vedic culture, not the "Hindu" one.
.

Quite so

If I may, the concept of Niyog, is a ' hindu", "Brahministic' custom.

The woman, in that paradigm, is treated as an articifical machine, a producer of a baby.

This is not the Jat/Vedic custom.

The Arya Samaj teachings of Swami Dayanand, did not clash with the ancient jat customs of widow remmarige, for they were only doing what they had done from ancient Rig Vedic times, circa 2500 BCE, and they continued to follow their customs..

The Jats did not accept the Niyog Concept as propounded by Swami Dayanand.

That concept does not apply to the Jats.

Ravi Chaudhary

ravichaudhary

February 27th, 2006, 09:32 PM

Question is: Who all are willing to marry widows. I see some very patronizing males on this forum supporting the idea. But, if someday you were facing a decision to get married, would you be willing to marry a widow?

Plenty of people marry widows.

They just choose not to make a song and dance about it.

If we look around us, we will find we know plenty of people who have married widows.

Among the Jats this is very common.

What does happen is the as the Jats leave their home village communities, their younger generation grow up outside the influence of their ancient culture, and they get less and less supportive message inputs.

They start to question their beliefs and customs, (which they should) and start to shy away from the ancient values( which latter they do not have to).

The input they receive from society of a Jat ,is a negative image

An image that is a crude image, of being uncouth, rustic, simple minded, a villager, a dacoit and a bandit, robber, a troublemaker.

Their self esteem declines.

They are not taught that theirs' is an ancient culture, and they contributed much to society from spiritual and religious texts, to martial arts, to education, and to nation building.

Quite naturally many have no clue, and when questions like serious questions are raised, they wish to hide the fact they are Jat, and fall prey to illusion of "Hindu/ Brahminist" society, which do not understand or follow Vedic values.

One of the purposes of this site, and others including Dudheeji's ********.net and our Yahoo JatHistory group is the bring the material before our community, for all- old and young, male and female, to educate them about our achievements, our role models, and our values and first and foremost to develop a positive image of the Jats for the generations to follow.

Hopefully that will enable a healthy discussion to take place, as we question our belief systems, which as I have said before we should and must, and learn from that.

Ravi Chaudhary

ravichaudhary

February 27th, 2006, 09:38 PM

Plenty of people marry widows.

They just choose not to make a song and dance about it.

If we look around us, we will find we know plenty of people who have married widows.

Among the Jats this is very common.

What does happen is the as the Jats leave their home village communities, their younger generation grow up outside the influence of their ancient culture, and they get less and less supportive message inputs.

They start to question their beliefs and customs, (which they should) and start to shy away from the ancient values.

One of the purposes of this site, and others including Dudheeji's ********.net and our Yahoo JatHistory group is the bring the material before our community, for all- old and young, male and female, to educate them about our achievements, our role models, and our values and first and foremost to develop a positive image of the Jats for the generations to follow.

Ravi Chaudhary

I had typed in ********.net

the word "Jat World" as one word '********' does not appear.

Any reason it does not appear?

Could adminstrators please advise?

dndeswal

February 27th, 2006, 09:59 PM

ravichaudhary

February 28th, 2006, 12:27 AM

.
Thanks Ravi bhai for taking interest in this debate.

Yes, the tradition of 'Niyog' has not been practised in Jats on a large scale. Swamiji has mentioned that it has to be adopted in very rare and exceptional circumstances such as cited in Mahabharata. Naturally a Maharani cannot be married outside the palace and there were no choices for remarriage in the royal family. Swamiji was a great advocate of widow marriage but there are limits of such a marriage, according to Vedic customs which have been explained by him in his books.
.

I will challenge you to show me where the concept of "Niyog" is practised by Jats, even on a small scale.

Every thing that Swami Dayanand said, cannot be taken to be the absolute truth.

The concept of ' niyog' is to use the womb of a woman to beget offspring. In other words to 'rent' out her womb.

This is not a Jat custom, nor is it a Vedic custom.

The Jat custom is Widow remarriage, with full honour.

Remarriage to one of the extended family, or outside, with full honour to the girl. and to her children, old and new.

In the Jat society there was/is no discrimination.

The Satyarth Prakash in this context does not apply to the Jat society.

They also followed widow re marriage before Swami Dayanand and had son so for thousands of years.

Jats are not the only people who follow widow remarriage.
We finds this custom, in the Gurjars, Abhirs, Veershaivites ( in Karnataka).

Thus the bulk of the populatin did not follow the ' neo Hindu' custom.

It is just that in the “neo- Hindu- sanatan Dharm”, stream this concept of Widow remarriage was eliminated, and hyped to the extent that it was considered, as something negative.

Why and how this occurred is a different matter.

dndeswal

February 28th, 2006, 12:58 AM

[quote=ravichaudhary]I will challenge you to show me where the concept of "Niyog" is practised by Jats, even on a small scale.

Every thing that Swami Dayanand said, cannot be taken to be the absolute truth.

This is not the topic of discussion, the topic is marriage of widows. It is not the question of "Challenge". Swamy Dayanand has himself written that he is not the final authority and everything is subject to debate. He has also not written that this tradition was prevalent in Jats. He has definitely written that to a small extent this was prevalent at the time of Mahabharat, because of certain circumstances. Jats have been a part of society before Mahabharat. When large scale wars take place and when thousands of youngmen are killed during wars, thousands of women too become widows. So, this custom must be prevalent, though at the level of barest minimum during that period in some societies, if not in Jats. So, better read his books. About 3 pages have been devoted in Satyarthprakash about this custom, giving vast details and removing many doubts. Everything cannot be translated here, as I have said. There is no harm in reading something - one may agree or not, it is upto the individual.

The central point is that traditionally, we Jats are already following the best options for remarriage of widows, compared to other societies.
.

raj_rathee

February 28th, 2006, 01:54 AM

This discussion with regard to history seems to be misplaced. History is a tool. It is a source of accumulated knowledge (just like old men and their tales). We use it
to make more informed decisions about current issues.

If you want to raise historical context while discussing the topic raised, what you
might want to do is to bring about points as to why or why not was widow
remarriage encouraged or frowned upon. That might be more useful than debating
one man's (Swami Dhaynand's) unqualified statements.

Perhaps doing that might help us on deciding if widows should remarry. And
since most educated contemporary thinkers will undoubtedly answer in the
affirmative, what might be more interesting is to hear why widows should NOT
remarry.

If there are none to support that, then the debate is pretty much non-existent. Any
remaining discussion can be moved to the history section.

raj_rathee

February 28th, 2006, 01:59 AM

Vaise Deswal yaar, aapki photo Swami Dhaynand ki portrait se bahot milti julti hai.
Koi relationship hai kya unse ?

ravichaudhary

February 28th, 2006, 02:12 AM

[quote=ravichaudhary]I will challenge you to show me where the concept of "Niyog" is practised by Jats, even on a small scale.

The central point is that traditionally, we Jats are already following the best options for remarriage of widows, compared to other societies.
.

I have read the Satyarth Prakash.

It does not talk about Widow remarriage but about "Niyog", which is the "renting/contracting" out of the woman's womb to create offspring.

" Niyog" is not remarriage.

The MBH story can also be questioned.

It is vast body of literature, much of it fictional.

The MBH was being revised right upto 100 years ago.

We do not know who inserted the Niyog story and when.

The MBH also contains other stories, which support 1st cousin marriage,which is not a Jat concept, bt is a custom followed in the South Indian Brahmin and non Brahmin societies.

Some caution re the MBH may not be entirely out of order.

Since this topic is about Widow remarriage and its relationship to the Jat society and culture-

I agree with you completely that the jats were following the best treatment of women, which included the common widespread custom of their remarriage, and that was the most desirable option.

Ravi Chaudhary

vinodks

February 28th, 2006, 02:51 AM

Raviji,
I will get back to to the current topic later but regarding about "jat world".net issue I raised this point in my post earlier... it doesn't appear becuz mention of this word is banned here... I don't understand whats wrong in quoting some nice material from that website... Do we mean to spread factitious feeling by such references? I don't understand...
no moderator responded to my request, nobody even cares about such queries... none of other requests of members like a forum for "development" or "health and fitness" are properly addressed by moderators... Only thing they know is "delete" key... And I don't feel shy in stating it publically...

-Vinod

I had typed in ********.net

the word "Jat World" as one word '********' does not appear.

Any reason it does not appear?

Could adminstrators please advise?

ravichaudhary

February 28th, 2006, 03:39 AM

Raviji,
I will get back to to the current topic later but regarding about "jat world".net issue I raised this point in my post earlier... it doesn't appear becuz mention of this word is banned here... I don't understand whats wrong in quoting some nice material from that website... Do we mean to spread factitious feeling by such references? I don't understand...
no moderator responded to my request,

-Vinod

is the term "Jat world.net "' one word " " ********.net" banned from this site?

Perhaps this section should be shifted by moderators to the appropriate section.

Perhaps the problem could just be addressed, without a molehill becoming a mountain.

Could one of the administrators take the lead ?

arunshamli

February 28th, 2006, 04:07 AM

[QUOTE=dndeswal]

I have read the Satyarth Prakash.

It does not talk about Widow remarriage but about "Niyog", which is the "renting/contracting" out of the woman's womb to create offspring.

Ravi Chaudhary

First thing first. I am not saying what Swamy Dayanand said was right or wrong. But I am saying what exactly he has said about niyog and remarriage.

1. Satyarth prakash me niyog stri aur purush dono ke liye likha hai. so your saying renting the womb and articifical machine, a producer of a baby is not correct. Why not say renting the sperm??? According to Dayanand a lady can go to man and man can also go a lady to have kids.(If you wish I can send the exact word he has said in the next post)

2. He did say about the remarriage of vidhawa/vidhur, but only if they have not lived togather. It is just before the question where he has said what is wrong in remarriage.

You seem to have a very good knowledge of vedas. May I know whose translation do you follow?

narenderkharb

February 28th, 2006, 09:11 AM

ARUN

I have not read satyarth parkash,but what I read from on going disscussion lead me to conclude that what You said and what Ravi ji said is pretty much the same, short of,one night stand with out any responsibility and totally different from what we jats follow in our society ,wether it is renting the womb or renting the sperm, it is one and the samething. .

We never heard anywhere any time in our memory(not to talk about mahabharata,which may or may not be true)any thing like Niyogh in jat society,and such as a custom is totally looked down in our society.

What Ravi ji wanted to clarify, and is abosulute true is, that this niyogh is not our custom.

From your 2nd point about stayarth parkash it looks swami ji was not entirly in favour of widow remarriage,since you say that only if,can you put exact words what swami ji said about widow remarriage in different circumstances.

But what is most important to note, and pointed out by both deswal ji and ravi ji is,
JATS HAVE BEEN PRACTISING THE BEST TRADITIONS IN WIDOW REMARRIAGE

and those who tried to belittle these customs are themselves saying....

These are higher traditions followed by jats.

SEE WHAT A CURIOUS TURN OF FATE.

dndeswal

February 28th, 2006, 09:15 AM

Dear all,

A healthy debate is going on but the topic has unnecessarily been diverted to a petty issue. None, including me, can accept the fact that such practices are now in use in our societies, despite mention in our ancient books. Hence, it is not proper to drag this topic further in this thread and we should concentrate on the issue of remarriage of widows. The sum is that Jats are already following the best options available for a widow's marriage.

We have heard this from our elders and it is not written anywhere - At the time of third battle of Panipat, many Maratha soldiers had brought their families along with them since they feared that they might have to stay for a longer period. The soldiers went to Panipat to participate in the battle, leaving their families in the villages around Rohtak, requesting Jat families to look after them till they return. 'Dange' community in Maharashtra is a warrior one, like us, and it is believed that 'Dangi' and 'Dange' have the same ancestors. Many soldiers were killed in the battle of Panipat but many of their widows did not go back to Maharashtra and they ultimately mingled in our society, mostly by remarrying. Many Jat soldiers from Haryana also lost their lives during this battle. This is not a very old incident - The battle took place in the year 1761. Being a warrior community, we used to face the problem of how best to adjust a widow in society and our ancestors were able to solve this to the maximum possible.

The recent examples are two major wars with Pakistan (1965 and 1971) and another low-intensity war of Kargil some years back - thousands of Jat soldiers got martyrdom in these battles and their widows were adjusted in society. Even today, hundreds of armymen lose their lives per year in internal conflicts in Kashmir and elsewhere.

As rightly pointed by many members, times are changing - and with the passage of time, traditions too undergo a change. The citations from earlier books is just to guide us and know something about our old rituals. But today's school education in India, which is 'secular' in nature, bars our children from such ancient knowledge.

(Arun Kumar's post - No. 44, last page - is perpahs pointing towards Ravi chaudhary but by mistake, on top of the thread 'dndeswal' is written)

.

jyotijoon

February 28th, 2006, 11:00 AM

thx Mr. Ravi to bring this thread back to its track.Otherwise peoples started debating on an unrelated topic.

It is perfectly acceptable that a widowed girl, be married off, to anyone who is suitable, be they in the extended family, and for greater clarity,or outside the extended family if no suitable match could be found in the extended family.

This was and is the tradition.

In future , we may expect less of remmariage in the extended family, and the norm to be of re-marriage of the widowed girl outside the family.

Widow re marriage is also now being accepted in " sanathan dharmi" hindus, and we will see more and more of that in the future.

sunitahooda

February 28th, 2006, 02:32 PM

Raj Rathee Ji....this thread is not meant for commenting on photos...for that we have a separate thread...Jaton ke muskurate chehre...please post your comments there....dont divert the flow of this thread....Please

Vaise Deswal yaar, aapki photo Swami Dhaynand ki portrait se bahot milti julti hai.
Koi relationship hai kya unse ?

rkumar

February 28th, 2006, 04:17 PM

[QUOTE=ravichaudhary.

We do not know who inserted the Niyog story and when.

Ravi Chaudhary[/QUOTE]

If I understood correctly, didn't we have this tradition even during Mahabharat period ? Dhratrastra, Pandu, Vidur and all the five Pandavs were born through such arrangements. There were well laid down rules for this.

Rajendra

raj_rathee

February 28th, 2006, 06:30 PM

arunshamli

February 28th, 2006, 09:05 PM

Dear all,
(Arun Kumar's post - No. 44, last page - is perpahs pointing towards Ravi chaudhary but by mistake, on top of the thread 'dndeswal' is written)
.

Deswal ji, You are right...I was commenting on Ravi's post and not on yours. sorry for the confusion.:)

dndeswal

February 28th, 2006, 11:30 PM

Vaise Deswal yaar, aapki photo Swami Dhaynand ki portrait se bahot milti julti hai.
Koi relationship hai kya unse ?

HAHA ! Yaar Rathi, yah khoob kahi ! Bhai, photo ka tey pata na, par shayad 1-2 cheez milti hongi - ek to mera naam milta hai. Aur doosre mein University level tak Sanskrit padha hoon (Honours degree in Sanskrit from Punjab University, Chandigarh - not from a Gurukul). Par bhai, manney tey kade bi nyuun nah sochya ke mein koi vidvaan hoon - sayad aap sare USA wale hi jyada padhe likhe honge - baki sari duniya ke Jat tey inn USA walon ke aage anpadh ey honge !

Kai anpadh log nyuun kahte sunne sein ki Yoh Swami Dayanand bi Jat-e tha. Nah teh kyoon zahar (poison) khaa kar marta (ek musalmaan ney unko zahar diya tha). Nyuun bi kahya karein ki Shivji bi Jat tha - doosre devta amritpaan kar rahe the aur zahar uss Shiv ke zimme aaya.

Aur Bhai, aap ne aapni photo to kya, apna occupation, phone no. e-mail etc. kuchh bhi nahin likh raakhya. Ab Bhala mein aap ke photo per kya comment karoon? Manney tey bhai sab kuchh likh rakha sey - aur photo bi. Bhai, hamare ko kuchh bi chupaane ki ke zaroorat sey? Koi Dawood wale kaam thode-ey kar rakhye sein?

Mazaak sey bhai, bura mat maaniyo!
.

gaganjat

February 28th, 2006, 11:53 PM

Widow ki apni marji sai.

Jab miya biwi raji , tou ke aapni issi tissi karawega kazi:D

raj_rathee

March 1st, 2006, 12:11 AM

HAHA ! Yaar Rathi, yah khoob kahi ! Bhai, photo ka tey pata na, par shayad 1-2 cheez milti hongi - ek to mera naam milta hai. Aur doosre mein University level tak Sanskrit padha hoon (Honours degree in Sanskrit from Punjab University, Chandigarh - not from a Gurukul). Par bhai, manney tey kade bi nyuun nah sochya ke mein koi vidvaan hoon - sayad aap sare USA wale hi jyada padhe likhe honge - baki sari duniya ke Jat tey inn USA walon ke aage anpadh ey honge !

Kai anpadh log nyuun kahte sunne sein ki Yoh Swami Dayanand bi Jat-e tha. Nah teh kyoon zahar (poison) khaa kar marta (ek musalmaan ney unko zahar diya tha). Nyuun bi kahya karein ki Shivji bi Jat tha - doosre devta amritpaan kar rahe the aur zahar uss Shiv ke zimme aaya.

Aur Bhai, aap ne aapni photo to kya, apna occupation, phone no. e-mail etc. kuchh bhi nahin likh raakhya. Ab Bhala mein aap ke photo per kya comment karoon? Manney tey bhai sab kuchh likh rakha sey - aur photo bi. Bhai, hamare ko kuchh bi chupaane ki ke zaroorat sey? Koi Dawood wale kaam thode-ey kar rakhye sein?

Mazaak sey bhai, bura mat maaniyo!
.

At the risk of being scolded by Sunita :p ......

Actually Deswal (sir), my pops is a big fan of Swami Dayanand, and I have
on occasion been forced to sit through the fire ceremony (forget what its called..
..but Arya Samajis do that daily to purify the air..havan ????). We used to live
in Dar-Es-Salaam (Tanzania) and Arya Samajis were active there. [BTW...pops
used to work for external affairs as well.] So Swami Dayanand's portrait is etched
in my mind and I found your pic. reminded me very much of him....even
before this thread got started.

Rahi baat USA walon ke Padhe likhe hone ki...toh...he he he he....you'd
be surprised at the numbskulls you'll find here. So its a misconception for
sure. Computer Science ki degree le ke koi padha likha na honta. Baaki
koi Jat kissi ne faalto tae oon bhi na maanta....Ha ha ha ha...
So fikar na karo.

Vaise jahan tak maine suna hai Swami Dayanand was killed by some nacchne
waali by mixing powdered glass in his milk.

Regarding my pic...well everytime I put something up Nitin
takes it off. Don't know what the deal is. ANyways, nu socch lo ki
khaan peen mein ko kami na raakh rakhi. Baaki tae apne Jatan jissa e soon. :D :D

In California. Software Industry. Email is in my profile so can
always send an email. ...BTW...Modern day professional
life mein keeping one's private info private isn't that bad an idea. Pasting it
all over the net has its issues......

devdahiya

March 1st, 2006, 06:05 AM

At the risk of being scolded by Sunita :p ......

Actually Deswal (sir), my pops is a big fan of Swami Dayanand, and I have
on occasion been forced to sit through the fire ceremony (forget what its called..
..but Arya Samajis do that daily to purify the air..havan ????). We used to live
in Dar-Es-Salaam (Tanzania) and Arya Samajis were active there. [BTW...pops
used to work for external affairs as well.] So Swami Dayanand's portrait is etched
in my mind and I found your pic. reminded me very much of him....even
before this thread got started.

Rahi baat USA walon ke Padhe likhe hone ki...toh...he he he he....you'd
be surprised at the numbskulls you'll find here. So its a misconception for
sure. Computer Science ki degree le ke koi padha likha na honta. Baaki
koi Jat kissi ne faalto tae oon bhi na maanta....Ha ha ha ha...
So fikar na karo.

Vaise jahan tak maine suna hai Swami Dayanand was killed by some nacchne
waali by mixing powdered glass in his milk.

Regarding my pic...well everytime I put something up Nitin
takes it off. Don't know what the deal is. ANyways, nu socch lo ki
khaan peen mein ko kami na raakh rakhi. Baaki tae apne Jatan jissa e soon. :D :D

In California. Software Industry. Email is in my profile so can
always send an email. ...BTW...Modern day professional
life mein keeping one's private info private isn't that bad an idea. Pasting it
all over the net has its issues......

Arre ow Raj singh....bhai tu ya jelli thha ke kisse ho ke kandhhe pe matt dhrya karr jhikoi. Dayanad ji kaffi sobhaya aur shant parvarti ke sajjan purush sein bhai.I have known him for many years and frankly this gentleman does not need such comments.If you meet him once then you will repent using these lines.Frankly he is too decent a person. Bhai thodda dhyaan rakhnna chahiye maryadda ka. Par Raj bhai tanne sawaade na aawe bina ye panchpelli karein...ha...ha..ha. Anyways burra matt maniye Raj chhorre...i just thought to advise you on this particular issue. Orr ke saang chal rhya se aajkal...update de diye. God bless!

devdahiya

March 1st, 2006, 06:11 AM

Yes, widows must get married to a suitable person.In our society women suffer at large and we know the plight of widows too well.....Jindaggi haraam kar deta hei jammana.Ofcorse they get raw deal most of the time on the question of choice while re-marrying but still they are much more safer in wedlock than being alone.Our society does not sympathize with unfortunate side of these women,rather it exploits the situation.What Dayanand Deswal ji has said has a logic.

raj_rathee

March 1st, 2006, 06:25 AM

Arre ow Raj singh....bhai tu ya jelli thha ke kisse ho ke kandhhe pe matt dhrya karr jhikoi. Dayanad ji kaffi sobhaya aur shant parvarti ke sajjan purush sein bhai.I have known him for many years and frankly this gentleman does not need such comments.If you meet him once then you will repent using these lines.Frankly he is too decent a person. Bhai thodda dhyaan rakhnna chahiye maryadda ka. Par Raj bhai tanne sawaade na aawe bina ye panchpelli karein...ha...ha..ha. Anyways burra matt maniye Raj chhorre...i just thought to advise you on this particular issue. Orr ke saang chal rhya se aajkal...update de diye. God bless!

Hey Bhagwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn !!!!! Chacha, mein tae apni jaan
mein bahot acche tareeke tae boloon tha...Deswal sir ki acchayee kar raha tha...
ya issme bhi Jelli dighk gaye tae, mein eeb nu socchoon sun kade sacchi jeli tha li
tae ke hoga :D :D :D :D :D....

Chacha aapne galat samjha. Mein toh poora polite ho kae bol raha tha...

Anyways, great to see you back. Site aap ki bina kucch pheeke
si pad gayee thi. Welocme back....

devdahiya

March 1st, 2006, 06:35 AM

Hey Bhagwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn !!!!! Chacha, mein tae apni jaan
mein bahot acche tareeke tae boloon tha...Deswal sir ki acchayee kar raha tha...
ya issme bhi Jelli dighk gaye tae, mein eeb nu socchoon sun kade sacchi jeli tha li
tae ke hoga :D :D :D :D :D....

Chacha aapne galat samjha. Mein toh poora polite ho kae bol raha tha...

Anyways, great to see you back. Site aap ki bina kucch pheeke
si pad gayee thi. Welocme back....

Theek bhai.....good one...i liked it. Ferr theek sei bhai.........Got it. Thanks Raj...was a little occupied in ghar-grehsti.....Tu bhi fansse ga tawalaye...ha...ha..ha. Nyu chhadda na handde saari jindaggi......Dheedhh aa jyan gi jib treppanni ne lyawegga.....[no disrespect to women folks plese] Ha..ha..ha.

ravichaudhary

March 1st, 2006, 06:35 AM

To tie up some questions:

1. Deswal sahib puts it’s correctly, that our Jat community has had the best way of dealing with bereavement of the lady, by encouraging re marriage.

2. To Arun’s question:

MY KNOWLEDGE OF THE VEDAS.

I would be wrong to claim I have any knowledge of the Vedas.

I know no Sanskrit, and am therefore delighted to see that Deswal sahib has a MA in Sanskrit.

If he is willing, I would like him to help us interpret some Sanskrit texts. This will of immense value in our Historical investigations, especially on the Jathistory group, where we have to deal with outsiders, and there is a constant argument of what the text means.

My approach the study of the Vedas, from a historical perspective, is that we are dealing with only one version- the Sayana version.

Sayana was a “caste Brahmin” minister in the Vijaynagar Kingdom circa 15th century AD.

It is his interpretation that has taken hold on the Hindu society, and it is his version that was translated by the Europeans.

He was a South Indian, unfamiliar with the northern culture where the Rg and other Vedas were composed.

Since the Vedas were already obscure by the 6th century BCE (Panini’s times- conventional dating) and three centuries before him also obscure (time of Yaksha), then Sayana's interpretation cannot be accepted as carved in stone.

Indeed since he would have been unfamiliar with Northern Cultural practices, his interpretation must be suspect, especially as he is dealing with a text that was composed ( even by western dating), some 3,000 years before his time. By Indian historians dating the RV is dated some 4,000 to 5,000 years before Sayana.

The interpretations ignore the Jat perspective, which they should not as the bulk of the Tribes and Rishis have Jat Goths..

This document has to be interpreted afresh, from a Jat perspective, as to what it means and does not mean.

3 To: KHALKANDE SAHIBS QUESTION RE THE MAHABHARAT:

The Mahabharat (MBH) is an epic that has been expanded and re expanded time and time again.

Originally known as the “Jai” it has 8000 shlokas, and then it was expanded to have 24,000 slokas, finally to over 120,000 slokas.

These revisions, re revisions, expansions continued right upto the late 19th century. The composition of the MHz as we know is today took well over 2500 years, even by conservative dating.

The MBH contains much historical data, and the kernel of the story has some truth, but one should question the various stories and customs that have been grafted on, to suit a certain perspective.

Hence I question the customs of 1st cousin marriage ascribed to Lord Krishna? which I suspect is a late interpolating to suit an existing south Indian Brahmin custom.

Ditto for Niyog etc.

The priestly panda, first inserts these customs, and then uses them as an existing Dharmic rule, for society to follow.

Ditto too for the treatment of the Jat tribes, who are shown as degraded, uncouth etc? The term used for them is Jarta, which many writers today take to mean Jats. The problem with this story it was an 18th century interpolation.

Hence my question, at what point of the time line of the expansion were these stories inserted in the MBH.

In other words, when looking at these texts, as historical evidence, they should be treated with some caution.

We have discussed much of this on the Yahoo Jat history group. A visit to the archives there may not be unfruitful.

Those bored with the Historical digression, please excuse me this time. I suggest any further discussion on the technical historical aspect be on the History section.

4. Gagan Dhillon is very correct- that it should be upto the lady, and we should all abide by her wishes.

Regrettably her wishes were not taken into account, in ‘Sanatan Dharmic’ Hindu society.

In the Hindu customs either she was burnt to death, or tonsured, i.e. head shaved off, ostracized and cast out of the house, sent off to Brindban, etc to a life of exploitation and misery.

Given a choice between re marriage, and consequential happiness, or not, is a simple choice. Most people will take remarriage, and the option of conjugal bliss.

The option has to be that of the lady, but it not the place of a just society to deny her that option.

As Hindu society opens up more and more, and starts to follow the traditions the Jats have followed for thousands of years, we will see a more egalitarian society evolve.

Ravi Chaudhary

arunshamli

March 1st, 2006, 06:37 AM

Narendar, It is not a good idea to talk about a third person, if he has any question he could ask it directly and I would be more than happy to answer it. q meri image kharab karwaan ke peeche pad gaye ho yar..;) fir bhee mai aapke question ka jawab dene kee koshih karta hoon. and It is based on my knowledge of Satyarth Prakash and my personal views may be different from it.

1. What Mr. Ravi said, gives the impression that Dayanand was against stri jati. and he(Ravi) used the word child producing machine. Which in this context is wrong. Mr. Ravi did not give the complete information. and the complete information is that Niyog is for both men and women with out any discrimination of gender.

2. Swami's Idea was that sex is not for pleasure, it is only for reprodcution. and he did not think that sex is a bad thing. so this "one night thing" seem bad to those people who think sex is a bad.

Niyog is not being practiced by any body (including Jats) in modern time. But it was pracitced in old days. Dashrath ke charo putra niyog se paida hue the. panch pandav niyog se paida hue the.

From your 2nd point about stayarth parkash it looks swami ji was not entirly in favour of widow remarriage,since you say that only if,can you put exact words what swami ji said about widow remarriage in different circumstances.

you are right, He was not entirly in favor of widow remarriage. this is allowed in special case only. he has said ki agar koi shadi hote hee vidhwa/vidhur ho jata/jati hai and they have not live togather, they can have a second marriage.

ab mera personal view , no system could be perfact. I have seen many cases where remarraige has turned into the worst nightmare for the women. Niyog ki apni visheshta hain and apni burai hai. same goes for the remarriage. It should be left to the individual what they prefer. maine jabardasti chadar dalwati hui dekhi hain. the widow did not want a second marriage but their family member forced them to marry either to a very old person or a very young. you can never give an option which is good for all. It just does not make sense to me when someone says this is the best solution. in my view there is no such thing as best option. It is always good have multiple option. jisko ko achcha lage woh kare, isse kisi dusre ko khujli nahi honi chahiye.

Narendar, I want to ask you something, please try to answer the following questions honestly(no offence please)

Haryana (known as the jat state) has a female/male ratio of 850/1000. It is the worst in the world. even the muslim are better than us. They are killing girls even before they are born. How does this justify your statement saying jat respect women?

ravichaudhary

March 1st, 2006, 07:04 AM

1. What Mr. Ravi said, gives the impression that Dayanand was against stri jati. and he(Ravi) used the word child producing machine. Which in this context is wrong. Mr. Ravi did not give the complete information. and the complete information is that Niyog is for both men and women with out any discrimination of gender.

2. Swami's Idea was that sex is not for pleasure, it is only for reprodcution. and he did not think that sex is a bad thing. so this "one night thing" seem bad to those people who think sex is a bad.

Niyog is not being practiced by any body (including Jats) in modern time. But it was pracitced in old days. Dashrath ke charo putra niyog se paida hue the. panch pandav niyog se paida hue the.

you are right, He was not entirly in favor of widow remarriage. this is allowed in special case only. he has said ki agar koi shadi hote hee vidhwa/vidhur ho jata/jati hai and they have not live togather, they can have a second marriage.

That is exactly what I am saying.

the Swami was in favour of Niyog, and not widow remarriage. No one can point to the Jats following this custom.

Since you are interested in the Vedas.

The custom, unless I am mistaken, is only mentioned is in the 10th mandala,(book) which is a late mandala, ( a late interpolation), unrelated to the other nine.

The Jat custom was widow remarriage. - Karewa, Chadar etc, but not Niyog.

Today if you talk to the Arya Samaj shastris, they will tell you unanimously( and rightly so). that the Arya Samaj supports Widow Remarriage and therefore we should not hang too much, i.e literally, on what is said in the Satyarth Prakash re this.

Deswalji is right. we should not get bogged down in petty detail.

Re the Pandavs story- Please try not to accept the Mahabharat as the gospel truth.

Please see my previous post.

On female feoticde.

This is a sick practice, and best eliminated.

This is not to defend any jat family where this occurs, but it is not restricted to the jats, but occurs all over, in all communities. One has only to look at the number of ultrasound labs springing up. They do not cater only to Jats, nor do Jats get a volume discount or community based discount.

Yet it is only the Jats that get the criticsim!

It is an important topic, and should be discussed separately.

Ravi Chaudhary

arunshamli

March 1st, 2006, 07:23 AM

My approach the study of the Vedas, from a historical perspective, is that we are dealing with only one version- the Sayana version.

Ravi Chaudhary

Swami had completely rejected Sayana. also he himslef had written the commentory for Rigveda and Yajurveda. you might want to read him.

If you are interested you can read article on this web site http://www.vedah.com there are some good articles which you may like or may not like. this is a south Indian web site but they were inspired by Arubindo(who was a not a south Indian).

ravichaudhary

March 1st, 2006, 07:29 AM

Swami had completely rejected Sayana. also he himslef had written the commentory for Rigveda and Yajurveda. you might want to read him.

If you are interested you can read article on this web site http://www.vedah.com there are some good articles which you may like or may not like. this is a south Indian web site but they were inspired by Arubindo(who was a not a south Indian).

I have heard this before.

Is Swami ji interpretation on line?

Ravi

narenderkharb

March 1st, 2006, 07:30 AM

Arun ........q meri image kharab karvane ke piche....

ha...ha...ha...

Don't think like that Arun.

850/1000

It is really shameful,no if and but,what ever may be the reason.

This is the most important issue cocerning our society and members should think about it.
Plz continue your discussion....

arunshamli

March 1st, 2006, 07:36 AM

I have heard this before.

Is Swami ji interpretation on line?

Ravi

unfortunately NO.

you can find some of Dayanand's commentory on
http://aryasamajjamnagar.org/
the site is not organized very well, but you can try it.

raj_rathee

March 1st, 2006, 08:07 AM

Interesting article...didn't get to read it all....but very relevent here...

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/Organizations/healthnet/SAsia/suchana/0500/h014.html

dndeswal

March 1st, 2006, 01:49 PM

Dear brothers,

Indeed many of us have very little knowledge of Vedas and other literature, but all of us have some roots (sanskaras) inside us - and that is why we are all discussing the subject. It is indeed a good sign of our awakening. Swamiji had started the work of 'Bhasya' of all vedas but he could not complete the entire task. Rigvedbhasya remained incomplete. Nevertheless, the commentary of Adisankaracharya is truly vedic but his texts are available only in a few libraries. I shall attempt a short article on this subject some time later.

And Sayan's commentary ('Bhasya') is completely rejected. He was the one who interpreted 'Ashvamedh' as "sacrifing a horse to holy fire". He has also interpreted 'Go-medh" as 'killing a cow" (actually 'gomedh' means to look after cows - same as 'govardhan'). We all know that 'Ashvamedh' means an old system where a horse was used to be released by a might emperor and whosoever try to stop it, meant that he is challenging the king. Not only Western sholars, we had such half-literate scholars earlier, who brought a bad name to our literature. Swami Dayanand only corrected their mistakes and showed a true path to our society.
.

sampuran

March 1st, 2006, 03:42 PM

Deswal Bhai
Can you throw some light on commentaries by Sri Aurobindo Ghosh ? He also had similar views as Swami Dayanand Saraswati about Sayana.

dndeswal

March 5th, 2006, 08:56 PM

.
Vikas Gulia from Badli village (Haryana) opened a Pandora’s box by starting this thread on 24 February (Bhai Vikas Gulia is pursuing ph.d. from University of Delhi) but after that, he himself did not participate in this long discussion. By this moment, this thread has been read by more than 1100 readers. Heated debate continued among NRI brothers, mostly in USA and Canada. In between, hot exchanges took place and the topic was diverted to a petty issue. Wow! It seems USA-wallahs are the ones who would bring revolution in our society simply by such discussions over the Internet ! Among them, there might be many young Jat members of marriageable age in USA/ Canada. But none has so far dared to give a straight answer (Yes/No) to Sumit Dahiya’s question : “Who all are willing to marry widows. I see some very patronizing males on this forum supporting the idea. But, if someday you were facing a decision to get married, would you be willing to marry a widow?”

In the beginning only, I had said : “discussing a topic is different but the realities to be faced are quite contrary”.

A request : Since the flood-waters seem to have receded now, there is one humble request : let one of the members located in the US find out the current position in regard to the case of a destitute Jat girl (Geeta Singh) – though she is not a widow. She was the subject of a thread Help Required from Jat Members in America (http://www.jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11703) . It would be better if someone from Jat community in USA finds out the current position and make a comment on that thread.

The sum and substance of this whole thread :
The famous sayings and idioms – let us terminate the debate with some humor.

“Much ado about nothing”
“Make a mountain out of a molehill” – English

“Baat ka battangadd”
“Til ka taadd - raayi ka pahadd”
“Na soot, na kapaas – aur julaahon mein latthamm-latthaan” – Hindi

“Seeng nahin, poonch pakaddna”
“Bichalla (center) nahin, thaud (kinaara) pakaddna”
“Boomblyaan pey gahntaa chalana”
“Jhote Taley Doodh ki Balti (http://www.jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11380) dharnaa” – Haryanavi/ Desi !!!

Aur sab ko Ram-Ram.
.

ravichaudhary

March 5th, 2006, 11:53 PM

Mr Deswal

You are trvializing the topic

You can do one of two things, broadly

1) hang in to the Hindu sanathan dharam system, with its anti widow remarriage bias.

or

2) we can acknowledge that it is an ancient Jat custom and the Jats have that tradition even today and our proud of it.

[ Best leave Swami Dayand's views out of this- in this case they are not in tune with the Jat tradition. nOw if you wish to disscuss his views , start a new thread]

Marriage is a personal choice and best left to the person getting married and their family.

There are plenty of familes with their daughters who have been widowed,a nd we see plenty of happy endings.

The only point to note is, that there is no reason for jats not to marry a widowed lady, and they have no reason to be ashamed to do so.

If anything, this thread has done, it is to reinforce that tradition.

Best regards

Ravi Chaudhary