Jats in reservation as OBC

[chhillar]

If revervation has to be, should Jats be included in as OBCs at national level?

Who all do you think can help?

[vipin_nadar]

THERE SHOULD BE NO RESERVATION.

thats a loser thought when people are protesting against reservation. We do not need reservation to prove we are the best. WE ARE and WE CAN SHOW that without RESERVATION.

DOWN WITH RESERVATION

[bharatrattan]

If revervation has to be, should Jats be included in as OBCs at national level?

Who all do you think can help?
Dear Amit,
I concur with your counterview in previous threads and not follow hollow boasting.
If it is there (and It will always be there) the politically correct decision would be to get enlisted.
Bharat

[chhillar]

If it is there (and It will always be there) the politically correct decision would be to get enlisted.


Economically and socially too!

[chhillar]

THERE SHOULD BE NO RESERVATION.

thats a loser thought when people are protesting against reservation. We do not need reservation to prove we are the best. WE ARE and WE CAN SHOW that without RESERVATION.

DOWN WITH RESERVATION
Question is not whether reservation should be there or not OR if it is good or bad, I think is should not be and it is bad, but the question is if it has to be due to whatever reasons, do we want to join as OBC or not.

Looks like you mean say that even if there is reservation keep Jats out of it.

[naveenprakash]

hahha......hahhaa
dekhe chillar bhai ise ne tei kahya kare "dekh jat ke thaath".
jat tei uus lathi ki terha hai jo toot sakti hai mud nahi sakti chaye khaan ne dane bhi naa hoon ghar mein

[raj2rif]

Economically and socially too!

I tend to agree with Mr. Nadar, for the following reasons.
While it may be considered a correct decision, politically, economically and socially, it may not be so ethically.

Firstly, sooner or later the reservation has to end. It is a cancer that is killing the very fibre of our nation. It has divided the society and while most of us are against it, it will be wrong decision to join the race. We need to stand tall and oppose it wholeheartedly.

The advancement of culture as we can call it or the broadening of the view points has resulted in our clans getting married in other communities. As the trend continues, the reservation issue will also become a family issue. What when between the two spouses one comes from the community that gets reservation and one from the one not listed. This may result more and more people opting against the reservations.

I am pretty sure, that most of the older generation was against and still seems to be against the reservation. While it is tough for younger generation to fight for survival because of this reservation, we still need to fight against it. Reservation of any kind, is asking some one to run a 100 meter race with 50 meter lead given to competitor. We all must unite and fight against it.

Let us not sacrifice the Long term goals for short term objectives. I really don't know how it will be a correct decision to join the rut socially as mentioned above?

[chhillar]

Tawathia Saab, I can appreciate what you said here if not necessarily agree fully with that. Can you please tell me as to how many people are really into inter-caste marriages today, rough percentages wise? If it is really high or going up high then all that you said makes perfect sense.

I would not go that far to say that reservation is 50m lead in 100m race but yes it certainly gives an edge that too on the cost of other castes (sounds unfair) but other forward castes have done the same in the past to get ahead of us Jats or other backwards (I know I know...Jats!...backward? Yes they are, sooner we accept it better of we are)

Last of all, Jats may be whatever but they are certainly not one of the forward castes in India at least economically and that itself makes them qualify to be in reservation as OBC.

Deal with reservation or no reservation separately. A long as it is in the Indian system let Jats get that 50m lead too because most of them are running just 50m or are already too high speed for Jats.

[rkumar]

Tawathia Saab, I can appreciate what you said here if not necessarily agree fully with that. Can you please tell me as to how many people are really into inter-caste marriages today, rough percentages wise? If it is really high or going up high then all that you said makes perfect sense.

I would not go that far to say that reservation is 50m lead in 100m race but yes it certainly gives an edge that too on the cost of other castes (sounds unfair) but other forward castes have done the same in the past to get ahead of us Jats or other backwards (I know I know...Jats!...backward? Yes they are, sooner we accept it better of we are)

Last of all, Jats may be whatever but they are certainly not one of the forward castes in India at least economically and that itself makes them qualify to be in reservation as OBC.

Deal with reservation or no reservation separately. A long as it is in the India system let Jats get that 50m lead too because most of them are running just 50m or are already too high speed for Jats.




why can't we fight for better educational facilities for our villages ? Reservations won't help anyone except very few selected people. Has reservation improved the condition of SCs and STs in India ? If not, then why do u think it will help OBCs? We need high quality education for all and not reservation. Sooner we tackle this problem better it will be for we Jats and for whole nation. Why villagers never agitate and demand better facilities in the same way as other groups ?

RK^2

[chhillar]

why can't we fight for better educational facilities for our villages ? Reservations won't help anyone except very few selected people. Has reservation improved the condition of SCs and STs in India ? If not, then why do u think it will help OBCs? We need high quality education for all and not reservation. Sooner we tackle this problem better it will be for we Jats and for whole nation. Why villagers never agitate and demand better facilities in the same way as other groups ?

RK^2

If reservation has not helped SCs and STs (says who!!?) then why being worried about reservation anyways because according to you it does not help those who are in reserved categories (except a very few which doesn’t really matter…right?), if that is the case then it can't hurt others anyways.

We need quality education and sooner the better.....AGREED

[virenderkhokhar]

why can't we fight for better educational facilities for our villages ? Reservations won't help anyone except very few selected people. Has reservation improved the condition of SCs and STs in India ? If not, then why do u think it will help OBCs? We need high quality education for all and not reservation. Sooner we tackle this problem better it will be for we Jats and for whole nation. Why villagers never agitate and demand better facilities in the same way as other groups ?

RK^2
wat i have percieved of mr chillar's question is that whether jats sud consider being OBC if reservation is going to exist. well most of the decisions are based on the votebank theory.....whichever suits it, is going to happen.......this is in a way wat democracy is all abt but there are some ethics which r non existent in our politics......do we jats have to show all the ethics wen nobody is actually bothereed abt it.......discussion here is abt whether jats sud consider this option if this reservation is imminent........no point discussing overhere the pros n cons of reservation.........cant the reservation and the social welfare of jats esp. rural jats go side by side.......i dunn see any reason ........reservation is no way going to harm any body except the ones who dunn have this reservation.......this is ofcorse going to help to gain bureaucratic jobs as well as admissions into top notch institutes.......makes the job a bit easier.......well mab be the jatland members are the ones who have competed with best of the crowd ...but we sud not forget abt the masses who in villages dunn have any idea abt the competion......lets not sacrifice the jat community in so called sukhi chodhrahat.......eske k liye kuch byont bhi hona jaroori hai........waise ab kuch NCR main zamin k rate chadd gaye to kuch hawa bhar gi hai :)

[chhillar]

wat i have percieved of mr chillar's question is that whether jats sud consider being OBC if reservation is going to exist. well most of the decisions are based on the votebank theory.....whichever suits it, is going to happen.......this is in a way wat democracy is all abt but there are some ethics which r non existent in our politics......do we jats have to show all the ethics wen nobody is actually bothereed abt it.......discussion here is abt whether jats sud consider this option if this reservation is imminent........no point discussing overhere the pros n cons of reservation.........cant the reservation and the social welfare of jats esp. rural jats go side by side.......i dunn see any reason ........reservation is no way going to harm any body except the ones who dunn have this reservation.......this is ofcorse going to help to gain bureaucratic jobs as well as admissions into top notch institutes.......makes the job a bit easier.......well mab be the jatland members are the ones who have competed with best of the crowd ...but we sud not forget abt the masses who in villages dunn have any idea abt the competion......lets not sacrifice the jat community in so called sukhi chodhrahat.......eske k liye kuch byont bhi hona jaroori hai........waise ab kuch NCR main zamin k rate chadd gaye to kuch hawa bhar gi hai :)

Absolutely right.
I don't know why we have to discuss about how bad reservation is while almost everybody is agreeing on that...

[virenderkhokhar]

Absolutely right.
I don't know why we have to discuss about how bad reservation is while almost everybody is agreeing on that...

no need to discuss it..instead the educated ones sud make efforts towards making it possible......

[sampuran]

Amit bhai
Economically it looks very tempting to go with the issue. The problem is of long term effects. No person works who gets his meals on a platter. If we want to become kaamchor and alsi, we should do everything to ensure that Jats are also included in the OBC. Somehow if we can get BC status, it will be even better.

[virenderkhokhar]

Amit bhai
Economically it looks very tempting to go with the issue. The problem is of long term effects. No person works who gets his meals on a platter. If we want to become kaamchor and alsi, we should do everything to ensure that Jats are also included in the OBC. Somehow if we can get BC status, it will be even better.
sounds strange.......everybody is more of less same intelligent......wats is important is the exposure n the upbringing.....those who dunn have this privilage wat they sud do.....obvious answer wud be 'struggle' ........this will sacrifice a lot of them........i dun see ne harm

[raj2rif]

Tawathia Saab, I can appreciate what you said here if not necessarily agree fully with that. Can you please tell me as to how many people are really into inter-caste marriages today, rough percentages wise? If it is really high or going up high then all that you said makes perfect sense.

I would not go that far to say that reservation is 50m lead in 100m race but yes it certainly gives an edge that too on the cost of other castes (sounds unfair) but other forward castes have done the same in the past to get ahead of us Jats or other backwards (I know I know...Jats!...backward? Yes they are, sooner we accept it better of we are)

Last of all, Jats may be whatever but they are certainly not one of the forward castes in India at least economically and that itself makes them qualify to be in reservation as OBC.

Deal with reservation or no reservation separately. A long as it is in the Indian system let Jats get that 50m lead too because most of them are running just 50m or are already too high speed for Jats.




Dear Amit Ji,

Firstly, about Intercaste marriages. I don't have any statistical data about it, but what ever may be its percentage, it is more now than it was 20 years ago and is going to be more than now in next 20 years. This is purely due to the vision of people broadening as their exposure broadens.

You have also mentioned in another reply that when every one agrees (don't know on what issue) then why discuss the subject. Well you are the originator of the subject and would be best to answer this question.
To me, any subject that provokes the thoughts of the community/members is worth discussing.

The next point is that certainly "jats are not forward class". I personally don't care where we are whehter forward or backward, but if one has to choose from the two words, I would rather move forward rather otherwise. To me forward and backward are the results of economical prosparity and educational advancement. Thus I would go with what Rajendra ji has said, to create educational infrastructure in villages. Why always good educational institutions come up in Cities? Because they have the existing infrastructure. If good institutions come in villages, the other develpments would also take place in that area. Pilani is one example of the same.

NAJC members have done some good work in educational field by creating some facilities in rural area. I posted, a thread on this subject and you see it for yourself, while over 60 people have read that not even one comment or reply. So that is our commitment towards such issues.

I have always been against any kind of reservations all my life. Will I change my views in future? Who knows? but surely I don't see any merit in an activity which divides the communities and reservations does that.

We all keep talking about that so called forward castes have exploited the jats, or the SC or the BC in past. Well, let of Jat Zamindar's had done the same. So, it was really not the function of caste but of economic advancements or haves and have nots. While we are moving forward in a democratic system, we need to be equal in all things that we do, giving equal opportunities to every one. The only reservation I support is based on economic condition of the candidate and that should be in terms of monetory help rather than intellectual help. The competition should be fair and just for all young people irrespective of the caste they come from. No one gets born in a family of his/her choice.

Some members feel that reservation is going to remain part of our political system as it attracts the votes. True, it has become an integral part of the system over the period, but that does not mean it is the right thing that has happened. We need to stand tall on this issue and oppose it and root it out from the system as our contribution to the future generations, rather than taking the path of least resistance.

These are my views and members need not necessarily have to agree with these views.

[MKadwa]

Question is not whether reservation should be there or not OR if it is good or bad, I think is should not be and it is bad, but the question is if it has to be due to whatever reasons, do we want to join as OBC or not.

Looks like you mean say that even if there is reservation keep Jats out of it.
Dear Amit Ji,
Your are right. If it happens then we should be included in OBC, as we are already in OBC in Rajasthan.
So it happens nay how then we should be included in OBC at national level.

[chhillar]

Tawathia Saab,

I was just trying to say that the issue of reservation is incontrovertibly bad and it shouldn't be there. So what's the point arguing about some thing we almost all already agree?

As far as charity and such issues go if I go with my personal past experiences I would rather take care of it myself instead of being member of an org due to obvious reasons.

I personally know about your org and have high regard for the members and whatever you guys are doing.

[narenderkharb]

If reservation is going to stay and which is an absolute certainty than jats must be there otherwise the future of our young people is going to be bleak.

Secondly contrary to general approach I think reservation is not at all wrong.Only way of its implementation is wrong where all benefits are harvested by creamy layer .Again the economicaly poor sections of other groups should also be given reservation.With all its shortcomings its better than no reservation at all.

Those who talk of merit I ask them what do they mean by merit when merits are being manipulated by people sitting at postions of influence at every stage of life.

I shall ask how a poor boy from a rural background or an adivasi from tribal area can compete with a guy from DPS delhi with coaching from from reputed institutes .

Reservation is there to dereserve the already reserved opportunities for welthier section in positions of influence.Its faulty implementations should be rectified and implemented in true spirits.

Jats should not fall prey to this worthless tag of forward and backward but must safegaurd interests of their young generations.

We should try to get reservation at national level and an effort in this regard must be made by all who think about our future generations.

[bharatrattan]

Tevathia Uncle,
Namaste,
Every single cast in India is about the population of many European Countries. Many equally intelligent people don't get the opportunity by 0.000025 percent marks difference in India. At AIIMS 34 general Category Students seats are settled within 1.5% marks difference.

Practically the "forward" thinking would be to get enlisted as "OBC" instead of competing for meager 50% seats. In 2007 when OBC quota will be implemented the effective population with which people will have to compete would be 1.5 billion (overnight!)
What an Individual can achieve by hard work can not be replaced by politics and what politics can achieve, can not substitute for Individual success. The best way is to maximize both. Your charity organiztion is helping people achieve individual outcomes and the decision of OBC issue would act by providing opportunities.



Be realistic and not emotional.

Regards,
Bharat

[chhillar]

If I give you a hypothetical situation where reservation is going to be there in India for another 100 years; what would you want to choose out of these two?

a) Be part of the reservation and get your kids’ fair (or unfair) share of opportunities and on the side push for quality education etc.

b) Engage your kids in protests against reservation for all these 100 years and not allow them to avail their fair (or unfair) share of opportunities and of course on the side push for quality education etc.

Which one, a or b?
I won't keep you guessing about mine, its a.

Also how many of us really believe that reservation won't be there in India anyway in future, if so what is realistic timeline?

[raj2rif]

Tevathia Uncle,
Namaste,
Every single cast in India is about the population of many European Countries. Many equally intelligent people don't get the opportunity by 0.000025 percent marks difference in India. At AIIMS 34 general Category Students seats are settled within 1.5% marks difference.

Practically the "forward" thinking would be to get enlisted as "OBC" instead of competing for meager 50% seats. In 2007 when OBC quota will be implemented the effective population with which people will have to compete would be 1.5 billion (overnight!)
What an Individual can achieve by hard work can not be replaced by politics and what politics can achieve, can not substitute for Individual success. The best way is to maximize both. Your charity organiztion is helping people achieve individual outcomes and the decision of OBC issue would act by providing opportunities.



Be realistic and not emotional.


Regards,
Bharat

Dear Dr. Rattan,

It is not an emotional issue. I have always been against reservation since my childhood. I don't believe in reservation. On one side we are supporting the anti reservation movement, on the otherhand we want to be enlisted as OBC to get the benefits of reservations. This is double standards. Let us do what we believe in. Even if it takes 100 years we need to fight the wrong policies rather than get comfortable by joining them. While, joining as OBC might help the Jat Community per say, what will it do to the nation. I do think beyond the Jat Community also. For me it is the human being that is important, what community he/she belongs to is not as much important. We do have good and bad people in all communities. We as a nation need to get rid of this reservation system and provide a fair opportunity to all our future generations.

[raj2rif]

If I give you a hypothetical situation where reservation is going to be there in India for another 100 years; what would you want to choose out of these two?

a) Be part of the reservation and get your kids’ fair (or unfair) share of opportunities and on the side push for quality education etc.

b) Engage your kids in protests against reservation for all these 100 years and not allow them to avail their fair (or unfair) share of opportunities and of course on the side push for quality education etc.

Which one, a or b?
I won't keep you guessing about mine, its a.

Also how many of us really believe that reservation won't be there in India anyway in future, if so what is realistic timeline?




And mine would be (B) even if it takes 100 years. By prolonging a wrong thing it does not become right.

[bharatrattan]

And mine would be (B) even if it takes 100 years. By prolonging a wrong thing it does not become right.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/EL10Df03.html

[bharatrattan]

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/EL10Df03.html

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/EL10Df03.html

[rkumar]

This is the way to go on reservation;

http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1711761,000900010003.htm

Haryana government has done great job by introducing reservation for students passing matriculation from rural schools.. All caste based reservations should be abolished and oly rural boys and girsl should be provided reservation till educational infrastructure in rural areas in brought at par with urban areas.

RK^2

[chhillar]

This is the way to go on reservation;

http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1711761,000900010003.htm

Haryana government has done great job by introducing reservation for students passing matriculation from rural schools.. All caste based reservations should be abolished and oly rural boys and girsl should be provided reservation till educational infrastructure in rural areas in brought at par with urban areas.

RK^2

I would support it all the way!!!

[raj2rif]

This is the way to go on reservation;

http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1711761,000900010003.htm

Haryana government has done great job by introducing reservation for students passing matriculation from rural schools.. All caste based reservations should be abolished and oly rural boys and girsl should be provided reservation till educational infrastructure in rural areas in brought at par with urban areas.

RK^2

Even though it is better than than the one on caste basis, yet it still does not address needs of the poor living in urban areas. I would say any blanket sanction of reservation whether it is on caste basis or area basis, is detrimental to building a close society. If at all there has to be reservation, it should be based on economics/finances available to a particular student. there should not be any for jobs though.

[devdahiya]

Reservation[chahe kisse kissam ki ho...aadammi nei nikkamma te bannawe-e sei.

[chhillar]

Reservation[chahe kisse kissam ki ho...aadammi nei nikkamma te bannawe-e sei.

saheee...par bina reservation ke ham keetanek kamere (forward) ban ge....
na na ko chhodo, koi raasta deedkaao!!!

[chhillar]

Even though it is better than than the one on caste basis, yet it still does not address needs of the poor living in urban areas. I would say any blanket sanction of reservation whether it is on caste basis or area basis, is detrimental to building a close society. If at all there has to be reservation, it should be based on economics/finances available to a particular student. there should not be any for jobs though.

for the first time!....dair aye par doorast aye...Col saab raasta bataao...kya karna chahiye, seriously?

[drrajat]

We need reservation just for ecnomically week section of ours.

[raj2rif]

for the first time!....dair aye par doorast aye...Col saab raasta bataao...kya karna chahiye, seriously?

It is neithe "der aya nor durust aya" The statement made by me is clear here as well as in my first post. I have expressed similar views on other posts on the same issue as well.

Help is to be given to the poor people. To me help should be monetery rather than giving advantage on intellect. We may feel happy about getting unfair advantage to ourselves for our short term goals, but we really are not aware the long term damage that reservation has already done and will do in future.

The suggestion is clear. Help the poor students to get to colleges by giving them money for tuition and if needed for coaching. But don't deprive the bright students of other communities in getting into colleges just they don't qualify for reservation quota.

I would love you getting treated by a doctor who scores 22% marks in CPMT (and gets admitted due to reservation) and not by the one who scores 70% and does not become doctor because he did not qualify for reservation.

Same will be the case with our diplomants and engineers, CEOs etc. Let us face the fact that reservation does not bring quality people to forefront. I am sure we all need the best to govern our country.

[devdahiya]

saheee...par bina reservation ke ham keetanek kamere (forward) ban ge....
na na ko chhodo, koi raasta deedkaao!!!



Agar jatton ko rasta nahin dikh rha tou wo apni halat ke liye khudd jimmedaar hein.....A kaum which had rotti,kappdda aur makkan from very inception[while others were starving all through] has to blame itself if they are not on top in all departments of life. AAi samajh mei Amit?

Sorry the double click while editing!

[devdahiya]

saheee...par bina reservation ke ham keetanek kamere (forward) ban ge....
na na ko chhodo, koi raasta deedkaao!!!



Agar jatton ko rasta nahin dikh rha tou wo apni halat ke liye khudd jimmedaar hein.....A kaum which had rotti,kappdda aur makkan from very inception[while others were starving all through] has to blame itself if they are not on top in all departments of life. AAi samajh mei Amit?


Aur jahan takk abb rasta dekhne-dikhane ki baat hei tou tarika abb bhi vahi hei aur tabb bhi vahi tha.....KHUDD KO KARR BULLAND ITTANA KE KHUDDA JATTON SE KHUUD PUUCHHE...BATAO FUFFAO TUMM KE CHAHO SOU.

[keshavdahiya]

well I THINK in cuming times the scinerio will be diff..........I think all of you shud have a look at this..............



http://photos.hi5.com/0001/055/902/4DBAN6055902-02.jpg

[sukhda]

I remember the words of Ch. Bansi lal here.........when ppl used to complain that jats are being exploited in the hands of others.....he used to say let jats face such trials and tribulations........JITNA DABAOGE UTNA UBHAR KAR AAYEGEIN!!!
Though this is bit out of context here...but very much supports the logic behind every kindda exploitation........as also rightly affirmed by dev ji "khudi ko kar buland itna ki har taqdeer se pehle khuda bande se khud pooche bata teri razza kya hai"........
I am not supportin reservation here ....all i am tryin to say is that, also if its there we need to face it with courage and prove ourselves instead feelin jittery bout it.
Policies .....vote banks.....govts.....manifestoes.......selfish interests etc etc........these things will never disappear........its better to make one self strong enough to face them or we ll be butchered too as many others have been in the past.






Agar jatton ko rasta nahin dikh rha tou wo apni halat ke liye khudd jimmedaar hein.....A kaum which had rotti,kappdda aur makkan from very inception[while others were starving all through] has to blame itself if they are not on top in all departments of life. AAi samajh mei Amit?


Aur jahan takk abb rasta dekhne-dikhane ki baat hei tou tarika abb bhi vahi hei aur tabb bhi vahi tha.....KHUDD KO KARR BULLAND ITTANA KE KHUDDA JATTON SE KHUUD PUUCHHE...BATAO FUFFAO TUMM KE CHAHO SOU.

[chhillar]

Agar jatton ko rasta nahin dikh rha tou wo apni halat ke liye khudd jimmedaar hein.....A kaum which had rotti,kappdda aur makkan from very inception[while others were starving all through] has to blame itself if they are not on top in all departments of life. AAi samajh mei Amit?
.
Agar app ka matlab he ki Jat apne aap ko blame karen apni halat ke liye aur sab theek ho gaye ga to konya aai samajh mein.


Aur jahan takk abb rasta dekhne-dikhane ki baat hei tou tarika abb bhi vahi hei aur tabb bhi vahi tha.....KHUDD KO KARR BULLAND ITTANA KE KHUDDA JATTON SE KHUUD PUUCHHE...BATAO FUFFAO TUMM KE CHAHO SOU.

agar sab apne aap ko buland karne layak hote to help, charity, reservation etc. ki zuroorat hi nahin thee...nyu kahya karen ke Talwaar aur gyan doosre ki liye hota he...Kitne ek sein hade jinne Bhagwan fuffa ke se aur muh mangya de se....aur aisa karne ka tarika kya he 'blame yourself'

thanks!

[chhillar]

It is neithe "der aya nor durust aya" The statement made by me is clear here as well as in my first post. I have expressed similar views on other posts on the same issue as well.

Help is to be given to the poor people. To me help should be monetery rather than giving advantage on intellect. We may feel happy about getting unfair advantage to ourselves for our short term goals, but we really are not aware the long term damage that reservation has already done and will do in future.

The suggestion is clear. Help the poor students to get to colleges by giving them money for tuition and if needed for coaching. But don't deprive the bright students of other communities in getting into colleges just they don't qualify for reservation quota.

I would love you getting treated by a doctor who scores 22% marks in CPMT (and gets admitted due to reservation) and not by the one who scores 70% and does not become doctor because he did not qualify for reservation.

Same will be the case with our diplomants and engineers, CEOs etc. Let us face the fact that reservation does not bring quality people to forefront. I am sure we all need the best to govern our country.

der aye doorast aye wali baat to majak mein kahi thi Col saab but what you suggested here is no doubt a valuable thought, I have been working on the same lines for some time now but much much more can be and has to be done. Regards to your feelings about other communities too

[crsnadar]

JATon ke saath "OBC" tag to jud gaya par iska Benefit nahi mila aur sirf respect hi kum hua.


Moving against the Reservation only in the present tide is not enough.

If most of the JATs here are against the Reservation then make it complete because in most of the parts of India JATs are recognised as OBC whether they get benefit of it or not (UP JATs - State level OBC, Delhi JATs - State leve OBC, Rajsthan JATs - National level OBC).

So if move against Reservation then move completely & remove JATs from any kind of Reservation they have & full fledged so as to aware all other castes about JATs
or
If favour Reservation then favour completely so as to include JATs in central list of OBC (at national level).


Kum se Kum ek cheej to ho
Respect of "GENERAL" ya Benefit of "OBC"

Filahal naa to JATon ka "GENERAL" wala respect hai aur naa hi "OBC" waala benefit.

& Please don't be imotional because aaj ki date me jo hota hai uspar hi haamare aane waale JAT KIDS aur YUVA JATon ka bhavishya nirbhar karta hai.

Rahi baat success ki to wo to MEHNAT se hi milti hai.
"GENERAL" category RESPECT ____ENCAURAGE YOU which matters a lot
"OBC" category BENEFIT____ONLY HELPS A BIT which matters little

this is the practical thing, IMOTIONS are aside.



Mathematical Analysis

Encouragement by "GEN category RESPECT" gives you
-You will work 20% hard then other
-You need not to bother to produce OBC certificate
-If u even don't fill your category in app form "NO PROBLEM"
-Everybody (SC/ST, OBC & GEN) likes the GEN category
-Aur shan to hai hi jiski koi kimat nahi

Benefits by "OBC category TAG" gives you
-U will qualify on getting 3-5% less marks then GEN candidate
(I want to make clarify here that the difference between OBC & GEN is much narrow then expected)
-Relaxation upto 3 yrs
-May be u work less because of Benefit in mind



So the benefit is less & loss is much

But currently we are not getting any of that so the LOSS IS MUCH MUCH HIGHER.
This may be one of the reason that now a days we the "JATS" are feeling backward in the todays RACE to SUCCESS.
Few of us may have felt the same but I got some bitter words by my OWN JATBHAIs on these words in previous similar thread but I never felt BAD because being imotional is of no mean.


SO either get full RESERVATION
or get full status of GENERAL CATEGORY
beech ka nahi chaahiye

ek chhota sa sher repeat kar raha hu
"E mauze samunder gairat kar, tufa me kashti fir le chal"
"Wo dekh teri naakami par, kamjakhat kinaare haste hai"

My stand is with "NO RESRVATION" because I m a greedy man & greed of Respect first than benefit of OBC.
Such bolne ki aadat se mazboor hu bhai log so please tolerate & reply with cool hands.
BYE

[chhillar]

JATon ke saath "OBC" tag to jud gaya par iska Benefit nahi mila aur sirf respect hi kum hua.


Moving against the Reservation only in the present tide is not enough.

If most of the JATs here are against the Reservation then make it complete because in most of the parts of India JATs are recognised as OBC whether they get benefit of it or not (UP JATs - State level OBC, Delhi JATs - State leve OBC, Rajsthan JATs - National level OBC).

So if move against Reservation then move completely & remove JATs from any kind of Reservation they have & full fledged so as to aware all other castes about JATs
or
If favour Reservation then favour completely so as to include JATs in central list of OBC (at national level).


Kum se Kum ek cheej to ho
Respect of "GENERAL" ya Benefit of "OBC"

Filahal naa to JATon ka "GENERAL" wala respect hai aur naa hi "OBC" waala benefit.

& Please don't be imotional because aaj ki date me jo hota hai uspar hi haamare aane waale JAT KIDS aur YUVA JATon ka bhavishya nirbhar karta hai.

Rahi baat success ki to wo to MEHNAT se hi milti hai.
"GENERAL" category RESPECT ____ENCAURAGE YOU which matters a lot
"OBC" category BENEFIT____ONLY HELPS A BIT which matters little

this is the practical thing, IMOTIONS are aside.



Mathematical Analysis

Encouragement by "GEN category RESPECT" gives you
-You will work 20% hard then other
-You need not to bother to produce OBC certificate
-If u even don't fill your category in app form "NO PROBLEM"
-Everybody (SC/ST, OBC & GEN) likes the GEN category
-Aur shan to hai hi jiski koi kimat nahi

Benefits by "OBC category TAG" gives you
-U will qualify on getting 3-5% less marks then GEN candidate
(I want to make clarify here that the difference between OBC & GEN is much narrow then expected)
-Relaxation upto 3 yrs
-May be u work less because of Benefit in mind



So the benefit is less & loss is much

But currently we are not getting any of that so the LOSS IS MUCH MUCH HIGHER.
This may be one of the reason that now a days we the "JATS" are feeling backward in the todays RACE to SUCCESS.
Few of us may have felt the same but I got some bitter words by my OWN JATBHAIs on these words in previous similar thread but I never felt BAD because being imotional is of no mean.


SO either get full RESERVATION
or get full status of GENERAL CATEGORY
beech ka nahi chaahiye

ek chhota sa sher repeat kar raha hu
"E mauze samunder gairat kar, tufa me kashti fir le chal"
"Wo dekh teri naakami par, kamjakhat kinaare haste hai"

My stand is with "NO RESRVATION" because I m a greedy man & greed of Respect first than benefit of OBC.
Such bolne ki aadat se mazboor hu bhai log so please tolerate & reply with cool hands.
BYE

Interesting way of looking at it...it makes sense

[rkumar]

Please read this article which quotes what all Rajiv Gandhi said in parliament on reservations and compare it with what present congress government is doing;

http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1712539,00300002.htm

If at all we Indians need to fix , its our politicians and nothing else. Everything else will fall in place. How the politicians loot money and how they spend it is nicely explanied in the following article by Vir Sanghvi.

http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1712539,00300002.htm

RK^2

[bharatrattan]

http://www.indianexpress.com/story/5752-2.html
Dev DahiyaJi,
This is suicidal. You may seem to win this petty feud by writing oblique poetry about members, but the gravity of the situation is best judged by people in academics and not freelance internet surfers.
40 quality seats means 40 people (at best like you) would fill them and thousands of aspirants would loose hope. You are fighting a debate by teasing people, which is dirty.
I wish you had shown more understanding of the issue. What a sacrifice to declare most people failures/khassi bacause of reservation politics.
This is inhumane competition.
Bharat

[ashwani]

i feel that if this OBC bill gets passed then our community should also be included in that on the national level. Only reservation i have is that once an individual enjoys the privelage of that and rises in the so called creamy layer then this should not be passed on to the next generation. I think it will not be a good idea for not getting ourself included in it since other so called higher castes of India have suppressed us a lot in the past. You can very well see the changes on the better side in the gowth of jats from Rajasthan after there inclusion in the OBC quota.

[dhillonpradeep]

If revervation has to be, should Jats be included in as OBCs at national level?

Who all do you think can help?
yes jats must be included but should be based on theur economic conditions only

[manu14]

well I THINK in cuming times the scinerio will be diff..........I think all of you shud have a look at this..............



http://photos.hi5.com/0001/055/902/4DBAN6055902-02.jpg
great depiction
great kesu ur involvement n ur posts are always interesting n ofcourse good

[chhillar]

arre kyun darave se Keshav bhai...

[manu14]

One of the serious obstacles to the improvement of our race is indiscriminate charity. ;)
though the politicians n reserved candidates are not realizing
but the truth is the same n they actually destroying these people by giving reservation
but the sufferers are no doubt us the general category
hope these politicians stop playing this cheap vote politics

[chhillar]

Bhaiyo, come back as it's ok now. No more distractions. Keep building the controvertible yet respectful conversation...please! I had my own view on reservation but I think now have a better and more balanced standpoint on it through the courtsey of you all by contributing to threads like this one...so please!!!

Here we go again...

Reservation for Jats demanded

http://www.hindu.com/2006/01/10/stories/2006011012520400.htm

[anujkumar]

OBC has become almost as competitive as general (exception acknowledged), since there is 27% reservation for OBC who constitute 40% population, and as people have been saying again and again.. OBC's are not really backward!

In other word, any "help" that OBC's get out of this reservation really PROVES their backwardness. It's a typical "order statistics" problem.

Here is what is going-on on the street, which I think have not been discussed before.

OBC's get their rank in both list! as you may want to check for your self.. a typical OBC.. say in UP govt. medical admissions, gets almost the same thing as he/she would get in GE based on these lists.

But the topper OBC use the GE quota! which helps the lower OBC's. This is more the case when they can collude, (i.e system allows for some level of corruption) to adjust the "bin packing problem".

For example if there are 100 vacancies in Muzaffarnagar, 20/27 OBC's are going to JAT's and 35/50 GE are are going to JAT's.

So net positive, there is 10% milage out of it.

[mann123]

How relevent it is in states like Haryana and Punjab where GC population ()including JATS) is more than 70% and seats for GC are 51%.

Where these 20% GC candidates should go??

What the hell is this reservation for we jats in haryana??

Mera Kumar (Centre minister for social justice) now demanded the reservation of SC/ST on the basis of the population but declined the same in Haryana and Punjab.

Is this our fault that we are having one/two kids as compare to others having half a dozen childrens.??

[bls31]

I tend to agree with Mr. Nadar, for the following reasons.
While it may be considered a correct decision, politically, economically and socially, it may not be so ethically.

Firstly, sooner or later the reservation has to end. It is a cancer that is killing the very fibre of our nation. It has divided the society and while most of us are against it, it will be wrong decision to join the race. We need to stand tall and oppose it wholeheartedly.

The advancement of culture as we can call it or the broadening of the view points has resulted in our clans getting married in other communities. As the trend continues, the reservation issue will also become a family issue. What when between the two spouses one comes from the community that gets reservation and one from the one not listed. This may result more and more people opting against the reservations.

I am pretty sure, that most of the older generation was against and still seems to be against the reservation. While it is tough for younger generation to fight for survival because of this reservation, we still need to fight against it. Reservation of any kind, is asking some one to run a 100 meter race with 50 meter lead given to competitor. We all must unite and fight against it.

Let us not sacrifice the Long term goals for short term objectives. I really don't know how it will be a correct decision to join the rut socially as mentioned above?

I think being calledOBC is derigotry to us Jats, My father was the first generation out of village, retd as as a Distt Megistrate,all three sons post graduate, I retired as a brigadier, daughter in New York , son in business, sister married to aJat DG Third generation of all doing well, if we are back ward it is our own fault,,brought cousens from village to educate and uplift but the ties to home were too strong,possibly aspirations are modest, those who want to excell have excelled,The basic stock is excellent, what is needed is motivation Brig lakshman

[hdsura]

Brigadier,

Your post compelled me to respond.

Your father is not DM. He is a farmer, working hard to make the ends meet.You just missed the NDA, ended up as a third grade teacher, have a sister, married to another teacher. You have a daughter, a son who tried 3/4 times in IIT, AIIMS etc.. just missed and there are other OBCs, SC/ST in your village they made it. You are a third grade teacher what world could you turn?

Now please re-write your post.


I think being calledOBC is derigotry to us Jats, My father was the first generation out of village, retd as as a Distt Megistrate,all three sons post graduate, I retired as a brigadier, daughter in New York , son in business, sister married to aJat DG Third generation of all doing well, if we are back ward it is our own fault,,brought cousens from village to educate and uplift but the ties to home were too strong,possibly aspirations are modest, those who want to excell have excelled,The basic stock is excellent, what is needed is motivation Brig lakshman

[mann123]

One question for all of Jats

What do you feel and think about a chamar who is your senior just because he is chamar.

You feel proud of him or thought that he don't deserve it. The respect can not be earned like this. if we want to be respected by all other we must be deserving not reserved.

[skarmveer]

This is not fare to get enlisted in obc or any other reservation catagory for Jats. Why we jats like to get reservation ? the only reason, others are getting hence we want reservation. We are not thinking others condition verses Jats condition. We had enough resources to go forward but we are unable then how we go forward by getting reservation.

We all know if we get somthing without doing much, why we do hard work
for getting everything, we will satisfy by getting that some by way of reservation.
I am agree with Col Tewatia. Reservation is not solution of problem by any way.

If the reservation is the only way to go forward by getting other's share then it is a cycle of forwards and the backwards. Today we feel backward
tomorrow those feel backwards who are today forward and the cycle moving like this then what is the end.

Regards

[hdsura]

On his face one better respect him.

If one doesn't then, unless he is nice and forgiving, can make junior's life hell and leave one with miserable options.


One question for all of Jats

What do you feel and think about a chamar who is your senior just because he is chamar.

You feel proud of him or thought that he don't deserve it. The respect can not be earned like this. if we want to be respected by all other we must be deserving not reserved.

[saharan21]

there should be no reservation for anyone on the basis of caste or religion.
if the govenment want to uplift the backwards they can do it by giving them free education and other benifits.
poverty makes the life hell no matter whether he is a jat or a person from other caste.
today we are fighting against the reservation. tell me by what face we can demand reservation for jats.
more over reservation is a slow poision it will shows it effects in long term.

THOSE LEADERS(AND THEIR NEAR AND DEAR) WHO WANT RESERVATION ON THE BASIS OF CASTE SHOULD BE TREATED WHEN THEY NEED MEDICAL ATTENTION BY A DOCTOR WHO GOT THERE THROUGH RESERVATION.

if and if there should be a reservation that should be on the basis of economic condition of the people not by caste or religion.

[chhillar]

One question for all of Jats

What do you feel and think about a chamar who is your senior just because he is chamar.

You feel proud of him or thought that he don't deserve it. The respect can not be earned like this. if we want to be respected by all other we must be deserving not reserved.

What do you feel about a corrupt and evil Jat IAS, IPS or for that matter Tehseeldar of your area? Do you think all these people deserve that respect you are talking about here?

[chhillar]

there should be no reservation for anyone on the basis of caste or religion.
if the govenment want to uplift the backwards they can do it by giving them free education and other benifits.
poverty makes the life hell no matter whether he is a jat or a person from other caste.
today we are fighting against the reservation. tell me by what face we can demand reservation for jats.
more over reservation is a slow poision it will shows it effects in long term.

THOSE LEADERS(AND THEIR NEAR AND DEAR) WHO WANT RESERVATION ON THE BASIS OF CASTE SHOULD BE TREATED WHEN THEY NEED MEDICAL ATTENTION BY A DOCTOR WHO GOT THERE THROUGH RESERVATION.

if and if there should be a reservation that should be on the basis of economic condition of the people not by caste or religion.

Sahran saab, there is reservation in just entrance to medical college but from there on the student has to pass the MBBS exam to get the degree on his own. So I would have problem in being treated by reserved category doctor.

[rakeshdahiya]

I feel JATS should be placed in the OBC List, and that too at the national level because:

a) reservation is going to stay as our politicians will never allow this tool to go out of thier hands....

b)Now the govt is lobbying to introduce reservation in private sector as well.

c) And generally speaking, I dont think jats have many significant achievement to boast about. Please keep in mind we are primarilay a farmimg community. 70% of jats are still engaged in farmimg and related activities.....but land size is shrinking. We have to move towards a knowledge base industry now and for that we need good education and then proper jobs. And if reservation can help us in achieveing thet then why should we be assamed of it...we shd just grab the opportunity...and use it to the best of our benefit.

[mann123]

What do you feel about a corrupt and evil Jat IAS, IPS or for that matter Tehseeldar of your area? Do you think all these people deserve that respect you are talking about here?

I had seen the corrupt and evil Jat IAS/IPS and honest as well. The numbers of honest and principled people are still high in Jat community. and I had seen people below these IAS saying "sala na to leta arr na leen deta"

I think non corrupt people set high standards in life for others and i had seen one of them and felt proud is a Jat.

arr bahee rahee baat corrupt voh to koi bhee ho doesn't deserve the respect.

[mann123]

On his face one better respect him.

If one doesn't then, unless he is nice and forgiving, can make junior's life hell and leave one with miserable options.


respect is a feeling which comes from inside and have long standing, not just on his face it goes beyond that....

[chhillar]

I had seen the corrupt and evil Jat IAS/IPS and honest as well. The numbers of honest and principled people are still high in Jat community. and I had seen people below these IAS saying "sala na to leta arr na leen deta"

I think non corrupt people set high standards in life for others and i had seen one of them and felt proud is a Jat.

arr bahee rahee baat corrupt voh to koi bhee ho doesn't deserve the respect.

Mann Saab, on one side you are saying the number of honest Jats is high (dil behlaane ko Galib, khyaal achha he) and then how come you have seen just "one", they should have been all around you.

[bls31]

I had seen the corrupt and evil Jat IAS/IPS and honest as well. The numbers of honest and principled people are still high in Jat community. and I had seen people below these IAS saying "sala na to leta arr na leen deta"

I think non corrupt people set high standards in life for others and i had seen one of them and felt proud is a Jat.

arr bahee rahee baat corrupt voh to koi bhee ho doesn't deserve the respect.

I know of a few, totally honest Jats. My Bother in law ,late Bhagwant Singh, my own late father ,a PCS officer from whom I learnt the vertue of being honest, though a retired Army officer, I hit the bed at 11 Pm and go to instant sleep,it was a major complaint against me by my late wife. If you have not been honest ,you would need either alchol or sleeping tablets and that too for a disturbed sleep Brig lakshman

[bidhlan]

jat must be included in obc

[mann123]

Mann Saab, on one side you are saying the number of honest Jats is high (dil behlaane ko Galib, khyaal achha he) and then how come you have seen just "one", they should have been all around you.

Amit Bhai

hai to bahut saree but kaam or vasta nahee pada. Jisse kaam pada aur honest thaa uska example de diya.

vaise list bhee de du to bhee kam rahe ge. It's way of looking some take positivity (which is very less) and some take negativity (every where) out of it.

[pmalhan]

I am one of the strongest opponents to reservations. Yet I am the one who has been associated with the struggle to include JATS of Delhi in the OBC list, for over ten years (typing and printing letters on my fathers behalf, who played one of the most important roles in getting reservation for jats of delhi.) till the objective was achived and still continue for inclusion in the central list.

The reason is simple, thousands of jat youth are getting jobs after reservation.

Lets face it, either all forms of reservation should be done away with or jats shall be part of it.

[brainspeak]

I am one of the strongest opponents to reservations. Yet I am the one who has been associated with the struggle to include JATS of Delhi in the OBC list, for over ten years (typing and printing letters on my fathers behalf, who played one of the most important roles in getting reservation for jats of delhi.) till the objective was achived and still continue for inclusion in the central list.

The reason is simple, thousands of jat youth are getting jobs after reservation.

Lets face it, either all forms of reservation should be done away with or jats shall be part of it.

bilkul theek baat!!

[narenderkharb]

Well done Parveen .

Need more people like you.

[pmalhan]

Thanks Narender, My contrubution is not worthy of mention.
We are all thankful to all the people who actually led this struggle.

[chhillar]

I know of a few, totally honest Jats. My Bother in law ,late Bhagwant Singh, my own late father ,a PCS officer from whom I learnt the vertue of being honest, though a retired Army officer, I hit the bed at 11 Pm and go to instant sleep,it was a major complaint against me by my late wife. If you have not been honest ,you would need either alchol or sleeping tablets and that too for a disturbed sleep Brig lakshman

Dear Brigadier saab, both of my grand fathers were graduates from Punjab University, Lahore. My father and my father-in-law both have PhD's from HAU to boast like you did but that doesn't tell the truth about Jats.....

[pmalhan]

Chhillar Bhai shayad hum phir topic se bhatak gaye hain. We were discussing reservation, shifted to corruption and now to something totally unrelated...

I would like to make one more point here, the govt is trying to go forward with its proposal of reservation in private sector, if that happens, whatever opportunities are there, will also evoprate.

Dispite these facts if we are still polishing our false pride and let the opportunities(say reservation) of growth pass by, then I think this single point demonstrates our backwardness and hence need for reservation.

[rakeshdahiya]

Dear Praveen,

Thanks for bringing the topic back to the original point of jats in reservation as OBC.....As i have alredy pointed out that Jats are still a backward community in terms of education and awareness.....and if reservation can help us to come out of it...then we should embrace it

[opsiwach]

I will say Yes..
In our constitution reservation is given to socially, educationally and economically backward classes sothat they can come as per the upward classes and not to Caste's as our politician has done for there well thought agenda of "vote bank".
if there is reservation, why not for JAts.
i m not in favour of reservation but if it is there it should also be given to all communities based on the economic criteria.