HC stops Jat Mahapanchayat

[chhillar]

Ke saang he yo???? Do they really represent mind set of people of those many villages or just self styled

This is the news in today's The Tribune




HC stops Jat Mahapanchayat


Inter-caste marriage in Bhiwani


Maneesh Chhibber



Chandigarh, June 9
Taking strong note of the unlawful and unconstitutional activities of self-styled representatives of the Jats, the Punjab and Haryana High Court today directed the district administration of Bhiwani not to allow the proposed Mahapanchayat of representatives of the community from 84 villages in Bhiwani district of Haryana to be held on June 11.
The vacation Bench headed by Mr Justice K.S. Garewal has also ordered that complete protection of a newly-wed couple and their respective families be ensured.
This order was passed on the petition filed by Surinder Kumar of Kharkari village in Bhiwani district. The self-styled leaders of the Jat community had been making life difficult for Surinder and his wife as they had married out of their respective castes. While the boy belongs to the cobbler caste, the girl belonged to the Jat community.
Highlighting his and his family’s plight, the boy had sought directions to the district administration and the police to safeguard their lives and rights.
In his petition, Surinder had stated that he got married to Poonam of Dhaman village in Sonepat district at a ceremony held in the girl’s village in May. Both families were present in the ceremony. The girl’s father, Mr Kishan Kumar, is a Subedar in the Indian Army.
While Surinder is employed with a private sector bank, Poonam is a trained staff nurse. Both were in love with each other for sometime before getting married.
Trouble began, when the bridegroom brought his wife to his native village in Bhiwani. On coming to know that he had married an upper-caste girl, the self-styled representatives of the Jat community of the village held a panchayat and questioned the marriage.
They issued a diktat to both families to dissolve the marriage or face consequences.
Refusing to bow before the unlawful pressure being put on them, the newly-weds went to Bhiwani to get the marriage registered. However, there, Poonam was allegedly forcibly picked up by members of her caste and taken away. The boy and others who were accompanying him were also beaten up.
Even though an FIR was got registered on May 23, no action was reportedly taken by the police and the girl was not united with her husband.
In fact, the petition says she might have been forcibly married off to a member of her caste.
Thereafter, on May 25, Jats of nine villages held a panchayat at Singani village(Bhiwani), in which over 6,000 persons were reportedly present. The girl’s father was also summoned to the panchayat and told to dissolve the marriage.
Here, the boy’s family was directed to return all the dowry items and also foot the expenses of the panchayat.
Still not satisfied, a maha panchayat was also ordered to be convened on June 11, where a decision about the future course of action against the members of the cobbler caste residing in the boy’s village was to be taken.
The case is yet another instance of high-handedness by co-called guardians of the caste system. In his particular case, the self-styled leaders of the Jat community were making life miserable for the entire cobbler community as a boy of their community had dared to marry a Jat girl.
Not only had the self-styled custodians of the community forcibly separated the couple, the girl had also been allegedly forced to marry another boy of her own community.
Apparently not satisfied with the punishment meted out to the boy and his family, the Jats had told them to leave their houses and go away from the village.
Surprisingly, the district’s civil and police administration did not wake up to the situation and allowed it to worsen. This is not the first such case in Haryana. Earlier also, it was the High Court that had intervened to safeguard the lives of the weaker sections facing the wrath of the influential, powerful higher class.

[poonam]

Indeed pathetic! God knows what the truth is!

But if this happens to be true, then it’s a matter of shame for us. If the two families agreed to this alliance then what was the need for this unacceptable drama of power show off!..:( Instead of focusing on something constructive why are energies being wasted in this farce?

[chhillar]

Indeed pathetic! God knows what the truth is!

But if this happens to be true, then it’s a matter of shame for us. If the two families agreed to this alliance then what was the need for this unacceptable drama of power show off!..:( Instead of focusing on something constructive why are energies being wasted in this farce?
No wonder half of these kinds of Chodharies are losers themselves and their kids never got any attention from them as far as education, career etc. go but still they leave no stone unturned to teach others' kids lessons on the pretext of Maha Panchayatese...

this reminds me of one of VJ Kharab's post about govt., I think there should be some criterion for qualification of these Maha Panchayatese too..mein koon... belya... khaam khaan

[ranjitjat]

DEAR MEMBERS
YOUR VIEW PLEASE ON THIS IMPORTANT SOCIAL & LEGAL ISSUE.
ANOTHER JAT KHAP MAHAPANCHAYAT.
ANOTHER INTER-CASTE MARRIAGE.
SHEORAN KHAP OF 84 VILLAGES AGAIN ON HEADLINE. FOR RIGHT OR WRONG REASON FOR 3RD TIME WITH IN 1 YEAR.
WHAT IS THE WAY OUT ?



HC stops Jat Mahapanchayat
Inter-caste marriage in Bhiwani

Chandigarh, June 9
Taking strong note of the unlawful and unconstitutional activities of self-styled representatives of the Jats, the Punjab and Haryana High Court today directed the district administration of Bhiwani not to allow the proposed Mahapanchayat of representatives of the community from 84 villages in Bhiwani district of Haryana to be held on June 11.

The vacation Bench headed by Mr Justice K.S. Garewal has also ordered that complete protection of a newly-wed couple and their respective families be ensured.

This order was passed on the petition filed by Surinder Kumar of Kharkari village in Bhiwani district. The self-styled leaders of the Jat community had been making life difficult for Surinder and his wife as they had married out of their respective castes. While the boy belongs to the cobbler caste, the girl belonged to the Jat community.

Highlighting his and his family’s plight, the boy had sought directions to the district administration and the police to safeguard their lives and rights.

In his petition, Surinder had stated that he got married to Poonam of Dhaman village in Sonepat district at a ceremony held in the girl’s village in May. Both families were present in the ceremony. The girl’s father, Mr Kishan Kumar, is a Subedar in the Indian Army.

While Surinder is employed with a private sector bank, Poonam is a trained staff nurse. Both were in love with each other for sometime before getting married.

Trouble began, when the bridegroom brought his wife to his native village in Bhiwani. On coming to know that he had married an upper-caste girl, the self-styled representatives of the Jat community of the village held a panchayat and questioned the marriage.

They issued a diktat to both families to dissolve the marriage or face consequences.

Refusing to bow before the unlawful pressure being put on them, the newly-weds went to Bhiwani to get the marriage registered. However, there, Poonam was allegedly forcibly picked up by members of her caste and taken away. The boy and others who were accompanying him were also beaten up.

Even though an FIR was got registered on May 23, no action was reportedly taken by the police and the girl was not united with her husband.

In fact, the petition says she might have been forcibly married off to a member of her caste.

Thereafter, on May 25, Jats of nine villages held a panchayat at Singani village(Bhiwani), in which over 6,000 persons were reportedly present. The girl’s father was also summoned to the panchayat and told to dissolve the marriage.

Here, the boy’s family was directed to return all the dowry items and also foot the expenses of the panchayat.

Still not satisfied, a maha panchayat was also ordered to be convened on June 11, where a decision about the future course of action against the members of the cobbler caste residing in the boy’s village was to be taken.

The case is yet another instance of high-handedness by co-called guardians of the caste system. In his particular case, the self-styled leaders of the Jat community were making life miserable for the entire cobbler community as a boy of their community had dared to marry a Jat girl.

Not only had the self-styled custodians of the community forcibly separated the couple, the girl had also been allegedly forced to marry another boy of her own community.

Apparently not satisfied with the punishment meted out to the boy and his family, the Jats had told them to leave their houses and go away from the village.

Surprisingly, the district’s civil and police administration did not wake up to the situation and allowed it to worsen. This is not the first such case in Haryana.

Earlier also, it was the High Court that had intervened to safeguard the lives of the weaker sections facing the wrath of the influential, powerful higher class.

[kharub]

I know my opinion might surprise some people and i might be contradicting my self (people might think i am contradicting myself, my beliefs are crystal clear and firm) ........... but i do object to the marrige of a CHAMAR and a JATNI

Yes indeed it is a private affair , but at the same time it is also an issue which concerns our society and tribe.

I am seriouly against such a marrige, and i think the Panchayat has a right to interfere in such matters to a certain degree.

If it was a marrige between a Jat Male and a Jat Female , then the panchayat has no business to interfere even if they do not agree with it ....

BUt this is an intercast marrige and the society has a right to get involved.

Equality of all does not mean, that we loose our own identity - that means Chamars and Jat are equal , but they should mind their own business ..... they are equal in political rights, education , employment and all ....

But equality does not mean that you mix ethnicities or mix race and blood ....

I totally support the Panchayat

It is such rules that have kept Jews intact all this time ..... Jews are very forward , economically powerful people (the most economically and politically powerful ethnic group in the whole world) , and it might not be wrong to say that they control the world to a great extent ......... and they have been able to do so because they keep their blood pure , and inter-religious marrige is seriously frowned upon in teh Jewish society

These liberal and mix with all ideas have destroyed the identity and culture of the European Society - Do we want to head the same way ?????????

[ratheetheraist]

I know my opinion might surprise some people and i might be contradicting my self ........... but i do object to the marrige of a CHAMAR and a JATNI

Yes indeed it is a private affair , but at the same time it is also an issue which concerns our society and tribe.

I am seriouly against such a marrige, and i think the Panchayat has a right to interfere in such matters to a certain degree.

If it was a marrige between a Jat Male and a Jat Female , then the panchayat has no business to interfere even if they do not agree with it ....

BUt this is an intercast marrige and the society has a right to get involved.

Equality of all does not mean, that we loose our own identity - that means Chamars and Jat are equal , but they should mind their own business ..... they are equal in political rights, education , employment and all ....

But equality does not mean that you mix ethnicities or mix race and blood ....

I totally support the Panchayat

It is such rules that have kept Jews intact all this time ..... Jews are very forward , economically powerful people (the most economically and politically powerful ethnic group in the whole world) , and it might now be wrong to say that they control the world to a great extent ......... and they have been able to do so because they keep their blood pure , and inter-religious marrige is seriously frowned upon in teh Jewish society

These liberal and mix with all ideas have destroyed the identity and culture of the European Society - Do we want to head the same way ?????????

dude........ which identity u r talkin about???????

can u please xplain this identity word u used here in ny context..!!!!!!!!

[kharub]

is it not clear that I am talking about the Jat identity - i thought it was obvious .....

Our ethnic identity - our social position and customs - our genetic identity - our identity as people -

WHY DO NOT THINK YOU HAVE ANY STRONG AND PARTICULAR JAT IDENTITY ???

CAN YOU NOT IMAGINE IT YOURSELF ???

[panward]

It reminds me of an old 'Bush'ism which goes somewhat like:

I do have opinions of my own but I don't always agree with them

I know my opinion might surprise some people and i might be contradicting my self

[kharub]

let me rephrase for you my friend - i meant - "people might thing i am being contradictory "

I have very clear ideas, values and beliefs - Crystal Clear ......

is that okay now ?????????

[ratheetheraist]

is it not clear that I am talking about the Jat identity - i thought it was obvious .....


okkk............. so u mus b sain tht marrying into chamars wil loose our identity...?? okk........

bt killing so many chamars n churaas nd burning their homes like we saw in GOHANA sm time back will make up our help in getting us the identity we all the time are obsessed with....?

there has been many incidents earlier nd still in the INDIAN ARMY ......... there are those shoulders which r seen like the way we r so proud seeing thm ..... bt they r there to face the bulets of enemy...... THEN WHEN THEY GO TO THE BORDERS U NEVER MAKE THIS HUE N CRY THT WE DONT WANT CHAMAR SOLDIERS ND CHAMAR OFFICERS TO PROTECT OUR COUNTRY...........

i think we shall come out f this identity circle nd see towards the life of those affected.......... nd shall have a different angle to think abt their future.........

we have seen so many blood n things on these issues ..... do we really need to carry on like this.....??

there has been incidents when these PANCHAYTIES have made the BROTHER N SISTER OUT F THE HUSBAND N WIFE ND MADE THE WIFE TO TIE RAKHI ON HER HUSBAND`S HAND.........@#$%&@$%&........

they r jus ridiculous nd i dont think it is the way to bring out ny decision which is goin to affect the lives of these newly weds........

[kharub]

okkk............. so u mus b sain tht marrying into chamars wil loose our identity...?? okk........

bt killing so many chamars n churaas nd burning their homes like we saw in GOHANA sm time back will make up our help in getting us the identity we all the time are obsessed with....?

there has been many incidents earlier nd still in the INDIAN ARMY ......... there are those shoulders which r seen like the way we r so proud seeing thm ..... bt they r there to face the bulets of enemy...... THEN WHEN THEY GO TO THE BORDERS U NEVER MAKE THIS HUE N CRY THT WE DONT WANT CHAMAR SOLDIERS ND CHAMAR OFFICERS TO PROTECT OUR COUNTRY...........

i think we shall come out f this identity circle nd see towards the life of those affected.......... nd shall have a different angle to think abt their future.........

we have seen so many blood n things on these issues ..... do we really need to carry on like this.....??

there has been incidents when these PANCHAYTIES have made the BROTHER N SISTER OUT F THE HUSBAND N WIFE ND MADE THE WIFE TO TIE RAKHI ON HER HUSBAND`S HAND.........@#$%&@$%&........

they r jus ridiculous nd i dont think it is the way to bring out ny decision which is goin to affect the lives of these newly weds........


Mate read what i wrote and if you cant understand it , get somebody's help to undertsand it and write a response ,

what i have written there is no where even remotely close to what you understood

so before you go on pointlessly .... try to first comprehend what i have stated

OKIE .. DOKIE

[ratheetheraist]

Mate read what i wrote and if you cant understand it , get somebody's help to undertsand it and write a response ,

what i have written there is no where even remotely close to what you understood

so before you go on pointlessly .... try to first comprehend what i have stated

OKIE .. DOKIE

ohh cmon vj........... now its the only thing which come out f ur pint f view on this issue ....... rest if smthing is there...... there is noone here to explain ...... can u plz help........;)

[kharub]

and for your kind information what happened in sonepat - do you even know what happened there ... or you get all your information form the Jat bashing media .....

THEY KILLED A JAT YOUTH MERCILESSLY - THEY KILLED HIM LIKE AN AMINAL , BECAUSE HE PROTESTED AGAINT THEIR THUGGERY AND INDECENT PUBLIC BEHAVIOUR ......

GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT MATE ....... YOU JUST MADE MY BLOOD BOIL ....

JATS WERE THE VICTIM IN THAT SONEPAT INCEDENCE ......

the valmikis started that bloody thing in sonepat ...... Jats just reacted and thay too not properly ... and then the Valmikis got hefty compensation from the state government - as a reward for slaying a JAT ......

[deepshi]

If u cant b possessive n passionate 4 ur belongings(identity here) then u cant stand 4 anything
of course- marryin a chamar is pathetic- its nt bout false liberality or caste system- bt its bout havin pride in ourselves..
this way v r on d verge f loosing our identity.

[panward]

I know my opinion might surprise some people and i might be contradicting my self (people might think i am contradicting myself, my beliefs are crystal clear and firm) ........... but i do object to the marrige of a CHAMAR and a JATNI

One more thing mate, which is not crystal clear from your statement or may be I am intellectually challenged and myopic to comprehend (see), but you have objections just because a Chamar married a Jatni. Does that mean you won't mind when a Jat marries a Chamari??

[deepshi]

though dint go thru d whole repititive n monotonous story;)

[kharub]

okkk............. so u mus b sain tht marrying into chamars wil loose our identity...?? okk........

bt killing so many chamars n churaas nd burning their homes like we saw in GOHANA sm time back will make up our help in getting us the identity we all the time are obsessed with....?

there has been many incidents earlier nd still in the INDIAN ARMY ......... there are those shoulders which r seen like the way we r so proud seeing thm ..... bt they r there to face the bulets of enemy...... THEN WHEN THEY GO TO THE BORDERS U NEVER MAKE THIS HUE N CRY THT WE DONT WANT CHAMAR SOLDIERS ND CHAMAR OFFICERS TO PROTECT OUR COUNTRY...........

i think we shall come out f this identity circle nd see towards the life of those affected.......... nd shall have a different angle to think abt their future.........

we have seen so many blood n things on these issues ..... do we really need to carry on like this.....??

there has been incidents when these PANCHAYTIES have made the BROTHER N SISTER OUT F THE HUSBAND N WIFE ND MADE THE WIFE TO TIE RAKHI ON HER HUSBAND`S HAND.........@#$%&@$%&........

they r jus ridiculous nd i dont think it is the way to bring out ny decision which is goin to affect the lives of these newly weds........

1. Yes marrying Chamars will loose our identity in the long run - if this coupel have a kid, he will claim himself to be part Jat , which is right because the mother is Jat , but he is not , he will be raised in a Chamar household, with their habbits and social manners and customs , - and if these things keep on going, we will have a lot of so called Jats but actually Chamars in our clan and thus we will loose our identity and ethnic purity ..........
If it was a Jat boy marrying a Chamar girl the matter would have been less serious as the kids would grow up in a Jat household they will be more JAT

2. Gohana - already answered in the previous post

3. I am not in no way that Chamars are not our brothers or they are inferiour to us - I never said that . I firmly believe in eqality
But eqality and identity and ethnicity are different things my friends - dont consider them all as the same thing.
we are equal , but we are different too , so while not having any prejudice, lets keep our identity intact and our ethnicity pure.
We need to recognise and appreciate any achievement by Charmars or anyone else, they are also people - mixing blood does not mean equality , it just means impurity

4. Liberal ideas like this have spelled an end to the Great Europe - Europe is dying , its declining because of just such ideas.
30% of under 5 in France are of North African and Turkish Origin even though that polulation is only 5 % ...... why ???

Because they preserve their identity where as the French marry into these ethnic minorities and loose their frenchness but acquire a Moroccan or Turkish identity. and the statistics alone suggest and it will not be long when these minorities will become majority.

WE ARE ALL EQUAL , BUT WE ARE DIFFERENT AT THE SAME TIME AND OUR DIFFERENCES MAKE US UNIQUE .... THEY MAKE US JATS ... AND THATS WHAT IS VALUABLE TO US TO PRESERVE OURSELVES CULTURALLY AND ETHNICALLY ..............

Did that Help ?????

[ratheetheraist]

and for your kind information what happened in sonepat - do you even know what happened there ... or you get all your information form the Jat bashing media .....

THEY KILLED A JAT YOUTH MERCILESSLY - THEY KILLED HIM LIKE AN AMINAL , BECAUSE HE PROTESTED AGAINT THEIR THUGGERY AND INDECENT PUBLIC BEHAVIOUR ......

GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT MATE ....... YOU JUST MADE MY BLOOD BOIL ....

JATS WERE THE VICTIM IN THAT SONEPAT INCEDENCE ......

the valmikis started that bloody thing in sonepat ...... Jats just reacted and thay too not properly ... and then the Valmikis got hefty compensation from the state government - as a reward for slaying a JAT ......

yeahi very well know all tht............ nd i think mus b knowing more than u do..... so..... i know abt tht jat boy was killed mercilessly..... bt then to show the identity only tht whole drama went on na..... bus u agree tht jats also reacted in a way which was not proper.......this was the only thing i wanted to say........ they only did tht how cud a jat b touched by these valmikies......... dear the differences cud arise among nyone nd they may take ny kind f turn thn...........

there is nthg getting ur blood warm......... nd ignore this n read the rest of the lines i wrote nd thn say tht this is the identity we thrive for......??

chal now cmin back on the topic.....................

i have seen many jat boys marrying inter caste nd when a JAT GIRL takes such a step....... thn only THE JATISMM of us comes out of us..........

arrey uss bechari nee ke koi haqq nahi apnaa partner chunnan kaa....... humney haii arr........ y this happens with us all the time ..........

i m jus against the voices those try to supress the grls nd try dictating their lives according to them.......... she has to live her life nd she does not even have the right to choose with whom she shall move forward.....

although these r really rare cases where jat grls fall in so called luv with the other cast males.... bt when it happens thn y cant we jus accept it...... she also has a heart of her own...... nd a right too......

jats kill their daughter nd the person with whom she marries nd spend their life in jails........ whole of the family is JUS LIKE OVER............. is this the solution to this guys............ i have been going to the courts since last one year nd i can see the jats involved in the similar issues nd they r jus helpless after doin these acts.......... i have met the families who have gone through this TRAUMA......... nd they cry in frnt of our SIR....... tht vakeel saab galti ho gii ibb ke karaan.......??

THIS IS A REALL BIG ISSUE ND COMMENTS FRM SENIOR MEMBERS R IN WAITING HERE............ DO THROW SM LIGHT ON IT ND HELP TO CHANGE ATLEAST ONE JAT MIND .......... I WILL B HAPY IF I CUD.........

thanks n regards
vikas rathee

[ratheetheraist]

One more thing mate, which is not crystal clear from your statement or may be I am intellectually challenged and myopic to comprehend (see), but you have objections just because a Chamar married a Jatni. Does that mean you won't mind when a Jat marries a Chamari??

hey daksh .................

this is the thing i wana have answer about.............. can u all protectors of our identity can answer this........

nd seeing this kinda statement frm a grl is pathetic........... haah.......... bt its like it only...... thts wt i say..........HONEST DIFFERENCES ARE OFTEN HEALTHY SIGNS OF PROGRESS.......... bt i dont think the differences r honest....

[kharub]

One more thing mate, which is not crystal clear from your statement or may be I am intellectually challenged and myopic to comprehend (see), but you have objections just because a Chamar married a Jatni. Does that mean you won't mind when a Jat marries a Chamari??

My dear friend ... i like your sarcasm , its very refreshing ........

I have a logic for my beliefs .. and I dont go on stating things before i dont evaluate them form my perspective (and it is strictly my perspetive, you dont have to agree with it , but you can always try to point out the weakness in my argument)


1. A jat marrying a Chamari would be a similar case, but a less severe offence , just becasue as stated in the previous post , the Chamarness willl be diluted and the kid will be more Jat than a chamar ......

2. It will not be such a grave issue just because the plain fact is that we dont have enough females in the Jat community for all the Jat boys so if they marry outside teh caste and bring the girls in to Jat families and TAKE EVERY MEASURE TO MAKE SURE THAT THESE WOMEN ADAPT TO THE JAT SOCIETY AND THAT THE OFFSPRINGS ARE DEFINATELY WELL VERSER WITH JATS CUSTOMS ... with no hint of their mother's ethnicity or culture , then it is okay

and my argument is not totally emotionally charged , it is based on logic and historical facts ....

[deepshi]

me nt an egghead;) n comparatively- green,, still stating wot i felt, nthin 'pathetic' here
actually dis goes 4 both d gals as well as guys,, i equally condemn boys contaminating their bloodlines.
if i had my druthers, i wud hv made mandatory nt marryin in chamars n low castes, both guys n gals

[kharub]

I consider my self a liberal .... but a conservative liberal .... and my dear friends i have been living and witnessing these things in Europe and Australia quite closely , i am and have been for the last 8 years living with Europeans and i have had negligible contact with Indians in all this time ..... my society, friend circle, work everything is european .... ya in Australia i had a few friends from Rohtak , but in Europe i am completely a part of the European social fabric ...


So dont you dismiss me as a backward, illitrate, neglected Jat - I am living it, I am seeing it and I believe it ...... These views are not as a result of ignorance and backwardness ........ but these views are as a result of observance and close study of the demise of liberal socities ....

Your identity makes you who you are - without it you are a nobody

[ratheetheraist]

My dear friend ... i like your sarcasm , its very refreshing ........

I have a logic for my beliefs .. and I dont go on stating things before i dont evaluate them form my perspective (and it is strictly my perspetive, you dont have to agree with it , but you can always try to point out the weakness in my argument)


1. A jat marrying a Chamari would be a similar case, but a less severe offence , just becasue as stated in the previous post , the Chamarness willl be diluted and the kid will be more Jat than a chamar ......

2. It will not be such a grave issue just because the plain fact is that we dont have enough females in the Jat community for all the Jat boys so if they marry outside teh caste and bring the girls in to Jat families and TAKE EVERY MEASURE TO MAKE SURE THAT THESE WOMEN ADAPT TO THE JAT SOCIETY AND THAT THE OFFSPRINGS ARE DEFINATELY WELL VERSER WITH JATS CUSTOMS ... with no hint of their mother's ethnicity or culture , then it is okay

and my argument is not totally emotionally charged , it is based on logic and historical facts ....

man it means tht u living in london nd stillu believe in the differences based on caste......... thts strange........... u calling it a crime frst nd thn u satisfing ur ego by saing if our fellow brother does it ... its a crime of low frequence..... nd if done by a jatni thn she shall b hanged or stoned till death.........

forget abt the history when we cant see the loss of humanity here killing the grl nd her luv ruthlessly....

[panward]

The remarks, I am sorry to say, are terribly fuedal and sexist.
A jat male can sleep around with anybody and everybody -- even forcibly at times -- while a female has no right of marrying someone of her choice!

The child, in your example, will have no dilemma of that sort 'coz
he's born in a family where mother doesn't have a misplaced sense of pride while father is shorn of any inferiority complex.

IN the third point you want to strike the balance by saying we should give Chamars equility but at the same time we should save our gene pool. Buddy, how will you ensure that people mingle but not 'mix' together.

And which Great Europe are you boasting of. The same white ba****ds, who wrote Indians and dogs are not allowed! Or those who carried out mass murders in the name of racial superiority.

Dost this superior-inferior thing is very tricky. If I say I am superior to someone then I am letting myself vulnerable to be proved inferior to some other.

Marriage, lastly, is private affair and no one, and I mean no one has a right to poke nose in others affairs. These panchayats more often than not trouble economically backward families to assert their authority. Had there been an influential family which would have done the same, I am sure they would not have pointed a finger.


1. Yes marrying Chamars will loose our identity in the long run - if this coupel have a kid, he will claim himself to be part Jat , which is right because the mother is Jat , but he is not , he will be raised in a Chamar household, with their habbits and social manners and customs , - and if these things keep on going, we will have a lot of so called Jats but actually Chamars in our clan and thus we will loose our identity and ethnic purity ..........
If it was a Jat boy marrying a Chamar girl the matter would have been less serious as the kids would grow up in a Jat household they will be more JAT


3. I am not in no way that Chamars are not our brothers or they are inferiour to us - I never said that . I firmly believe in eqality
But eqality and identity and ethnicity are different things my friends - dont consider them all as the same thing.
we are equal , but we are different too , so while not having any prejudice, lets keep our identity intact and our ethnicity pure.
We need to recognise and appreciate any achievement by Charmars or anyone else, they are also people - mixing blood does not mean equality , it just means impurity

4. Liberal ideas like this have spelled an end to the Great Europe - Europe is dying , its declining because of just such ideas.
30% of under 5 in France are of North African and Turkish Origin even though that polulation is only 5 % ...... why ???

Because they preserve their identity where as the French marry into these ethnic minorities and loose their frenchness but acquire a Moroccan or Turkish identity. and the statistics alone suggest and it will not be long when these minorities will become majority.

WE ARE ALL EQUAL , BUT WE ARE DIFFERENT AT THE SAME TIME AND OUR DIFFERENCES MAKE US UNIQUE .... THEY MAKE US JATS ... AND THATS WHAT IS VALUABLE TO US TO PRESERVE OURSELVES CULTURALLY AND ETHNICALLY ..............

Did that Help ?????

[deepshi]

the words highlighted in blue is nt about bein a sexist or a male chauvinism, its more f biological, paternity n contribution in producing a child of sum1s bloodline!!

[kharub]

man it means tht u living in london nd stillu believe in the differences based on caste......... thts strange........... u calling it a crime frst nd thn u satisfing ur ego by saing if our fellow brother does it ... its a crime of low frequence..... nd if done by a jatni thn she shall b hanged or stoned till death.........

forget abt the history when we cant see the loss of humanity here killing the grl nd her luv ruthlessly....


Mate who said anything about killing ????? Did i say anything about killing somebody

I am being logical in my arguments ... so debate me .. dont twist my words and use logic to defend or criticise

Yes i firmly believe in ethicity and tribe .. yes .... i dont belive that one caste is better than other

I would liek to state again if you have not understood it rightly after repeated statements - ALL SOCIAL AND ETHIC GROUPS , WHETHER BELONGING TO LOW CASTE OR HIGH CASTE ARE SAME
THERE IS NOTHING HIGH CASTE OR LOW CASTE ... BUT THERE IS DIFFERENT CASTES .. AND THESE DIFFERENCES SHOULD BE PRESERVED WITHOUT ANY SOCIAL INEQALITY ...... BECASCE THESE DIFFERENCES ARE THE VERY IDENTITY OF ANY TRIBE or GROUP of PEOPLE ........ WIHTHOUT THESE DIFFERENCES ... WE HAVE NO IDENTITY ...... IF THERE ARE NO DIFFERENCES AMONG CATSES ...THEN WHAT IS A JAT THEN ????????

WHY THE HELL ARE YOU ON JATLAND ...... ????????????????

Your new found liberalism is a sign of a new bird flight out the cage ..... you are trying to be liberal to prove that you are not a backward Jat and you are filled with neo-liberal ideas about equality and freedom ....

You are just running away from your rural rigid jat society and potray yourself as modern ................

I am not facing any similar dilema, My beliefs have formed after a close observation .. a first hand close observation of one THE MOST liberal society in the world ....

Where as your ideas are a result of you fight against yourself (where you have come from and what you are trying to be)

[rekharathee]

here i fully agree wid each and every thought of VJ Kharub,

u can blame it on my upbringing in d way that i am tought d same or my personal thinking that there is no match between chamaars or lowercast and jats

[kharub]

The remarks, I am sorry to say, are terribly fuedal and sexist.
A jat male can sleep around with anybody and everybody -- even forcibly at times -- while a female has no right of marrying someone of her choice!

The child, in your example, will have no dilemma of that sort 'coz
he's born in a family where mother doesn't have a misplaced sense of pride while father is shorn of any inferiority complex.

IN the third point you want to strike the balance by saying we should give Chamars equility but at the same time we should save our gene pool. Buddy, how will you ensure that people mingle but not 'mix' together.

And which Great Europe are you boasting of. The same white ba****ds, who wrote Indians and dogs are not allowed! Or those who carried out mass murders in the name of racial superiority.

Dost this superior-inferior thing is very tricky. If I say I am superior to someone then I am letting myself vulnerable to be proved inferior to some other.

Marriage, lastly, is private affair and no one, and I mean no one has a right to poke nose in others affairs. These panchayats more often than not trouble economically backward families to assert their authority. Had there been an influential family which would have done the same, I am sure they would not have pointed a finger.


I like debating you mate .... its always fun and informative ....

Who said Europe is superior ??? I quoted Europe as an example of a dying society and not because it is superior .. and the reason why i emphasised the fact that i am living as a part and parcel of European society was for you to understnad, that i am very familiar with your liberal views and i see then in action everyday and i also see the consequences of them ...

I am not superior to anybody in any way .... we all live because our heart pumps blood in our veins and that day that stops we all die .... so there is no question of being superior or inferior ......

And Europe in general and Scandanavia in particular is the most liberal society in the world today my friend - without any doubt

and please read me ... understand me and dont misquote me

I come from a Jat family which has highly educated and profesionally distinguished females, who have broken the glass ceiling and are super achievers , My Mother , My aunties .................. so dont you dare label me a sexist ......

My views are totally rational and not biased - my beliefs are based on social and historical facts

And if its a case of Inter - cast marrige , the panchayats do have a role to play - Marrige is a private affair , but inter-caste marrige is a social affair , as it sets the future social trends

Dont debate me just because you want to be against me ..........

[deepshi]

at d risk f sounding obstinste, n gettin crucified..( dont lose ur rags guys!)
still i wanna state sumthin practical
even i was high-headed earlier, of castes n creeds bein equal, guys n gals, bt now i when i faced it practically-differences do exizt
wen a father gets his daughter married, it scares d s*** outta him( moreso if he luvs her a lot)
wot my dad says is - he cant let her daughter marry into jus about any1, coz she wl hv to embrace whole f his culture, traditions, n whole family- alongwid d hubby
bt ib case of a son- he has left him loose- coz d arriving gal wud b the main concern n its SHE who has to conform herself to the surroundings n paddle her own canoe,,
i had mistook it as differentiation, bt after thinkin practically, he is right.....
v indians........

[deepshi]

i dont hv any axe to grind here!

[ratheetheraist]

Dont debate me just because you want to be against me ..........

hey vj.... listen bro... i don want to b against u....... nd y shall i......... i damn care abt tht.......arr tu kunsa meri jhotti kholl ke le gyaa jo main tere aginst jhanda thaaunga .......

now u keep on sain tht marryin a SC boy by a JAT GIRL is a superior offence nd its obvious tht we r alws ready to punish the grl who does so...... so its tht killing wt i m saing........ its not although related to ur quotes or wtever........ who cares abt tht wt u r quoting or nt........... bt my view is jus a general one okk...... not against u....... now u plz dont start saing tht i havnt said this n tht y r u saing this.........

and yeah the thing is tht i m here standing the thought nd acts of jats who r so straight forward in taking decisions to kill their daughters nd sisters jus after they gt to know tht she has married a SC boy........

nd on the other side if their son does so.... they r like chalta hai chaudhary saab....... ibb ikklauta chora thaa ka kartey.... ghar tee kaadha bhi tee naa jaamtaa......... ARR JAAT KEE BYAAH HOEE PAACHEE TEE CHORRII AAPEE EE JAATNI HO JAAGI............

jus tell me if m wrong here........... nd forget abt personal quotes nd unquotes .........

nd yes if u really feel m wrong here thn yeah i m happy being wrong like this nd will do wtever i cud to stop this misshappening in our society.....

nd yes vj u also said tht i m trying to become modern out here......... haah.... is thinking like this states me modern in ny context... aree do we really need to prove how much jatism is inside us or abt my family how closely we r related to this community JAT........

brother ..... thinking of a jat girl in such situation is i think a jus part of my concern to b called as jat..... AND OBVIOUSLY A GOOD REASON TO TELL U Y THE HELL I M HERE ON JATLAND..........

being on jatland nd shouting all the time we r jats ... we will do this n tht for our community n all ....... wee need to look into ourselves nd see wt actually we can do towards tht feeling of helping nd doing something for the JAT community...........

I THINK IF U CAN GIVE A JAT GIRL WHO IS LET LIVE HER LIFE WHO MADE HER MIND TO SPEND HER LIFE WITH SMONE SHE THOUGHT RIGHT THEN I THINK ITS A REAL HELP U CAN DO TO BRING THIS FEELING OF JATISM FORWARD........

[chhillar]

Mere ko pata nahin ye baat kab samajh mein ayegi ke everybody is not equal arr bhagwan ne sab ko alag alag banaya he. I think I should take some classes from some of these superior race people and unlearn the concept of 'Equality' all together:rolleyes: .....putting others castes dowm arr wo bhi khulam khulla..wa bhai bhai!!!

[kharub]

hey vj.... listen bro... i don want to b against u....... nd y shall i......... i damn care abt tht.......arr tu kunsa meri jhotti kholl ke le gyaa jo main tere aginst jhanda thaaunga .......

now u keep on sain tht marryin a SC boy by a JAT GIRL is a superior offence nd its obvious tht we r alws ready to punish the grl who does so...... so its tht killing wt i m saing........ its not although related to ur quotes or wtever........ who cares abt tht wt u r quoting or nt........... bt my view is jus a general one okk...... not against u....... now u plz dont start saing tht i havnt said this n tht y r u saing this.........

and yeah the thing is tht i m here standing the thought nd acts of jats who r so straight forward in taking decisions to kill their daughters nd sisters jus after they gt to know tht she has married a SC boy........

nd on the other side if their son does so.... they r like chalta hai chaudhary saab....... ibb ikklauta chora thaa ka kartey.... ghar tee kaadha bhi tee naa jaamtaa......... ARR JAAT KEE BYAAH HOEE PAACHEE TEE CHORRII AAPEE EE JAATNI HO JAAGI............

jus tell me if m wrong here........... nd forget abt personal quotes nd unquotes .........

nd yes if u really feel m wrong here thn yeah i m happy being wrong like this nd will do wtever i cud to stop this misshappening in our society.....

nd yes vj u also said tht i m trying to become modern out here......... haah.... is thinking like this states me modern in ny context... aree do we really need to prove how much jatism is inside us or abt my family how closely we r related to this community JAT........

brother ..... thinking of a jat girl in such situation is i think a jus part of my concern to b called as jat..... AND OBVIOUSLY A GOOD REASON TO TELL U Y THE HELL I M HERE ON JATLAND..........

being on jatland nd shouting all the time we r jats ... we will do this n tht for our community n all ....... wee need to look into ourselves nd see wt actually we can do towards tht feeling of helping nd doing something for the JAT community...........

I THINK IF U CAN GIVE A JAT GIRL WHO IS LET LIVE HER LIFE WHO MADE HER MIND TO SPEND HER LIFE WITH SMONE SHE THOUGHT RIGHT THEN I THINK ITS A REAL HELP U CAN DO TO BRING THIS FEELING OF JATISM FORWARD........

Social trends dictate social trends ..... we have a lack of women in our community due to female fetocite - A Crime of the gravest kind
Therefore there is some justification for a jat guy marrying an outsider - purely based on social reasons - not emotional, not sexist, not equality - Just a purely social reason - otherwise we need to start wife sharing ...

And the personal freedom is not superior to the social cause - If they have married then the society should use its influence to undo that mistake ....

But if they are firm on their decision , they should be outcasted and be expelled form the social framework ...

You cannot go on aginst the societal rules and then think you will be welcome in the social mainfold with warmth ......... The choice is individual

Confer to social norms or be outcasted - you cannot have the best of both worlds.

Killing is not justified - unless an expceptional reason (child sex abuse, rape+murder, harming national interest etc)

But people who want to go against the society must also be ready to face social expultion ...... Society is superior to personal wants ....

Supporting something that is against the Jat Clan and society is not Jatism my friend - its a liberal policy of appeasement

[ritu]

oh my god kya justification h jat caste k bahr jaata h to social reason h er jaatni jaati hto uuch neech saare chize saamne aajati h.
kya jaat kya chamar mujhe to sharam aarahi h itne pade likhe logo ko aisi baate karate dekh ker.karm h jo adami ko nicha banate h ya uppar uttathe h.
aise padelikho se to anpad behtar h er aisi soch wale jaato se chamar behtar h.ye do logo ki jindagi ka sawal h er samaj k thekadar kyu khamkah unki jindagi ka phasla kar rahe h
to hell with caste.when it comes to marriage compatibility is the only thing which matters.
chamar kya insaan nahi hote.






Social trends dictate social trends ..... we have a lack of women in our community due to female fetocite - A Crime of the gravest kind
Therefore there is some justification for a jat guy marrying an outsider - purely based on social reasons - not emotional, not sexist, not equality - Just a purely social reason - otherwise we need to start wife sharing ...

And the personal freedom is not superior to the social cause - If they have married then the society should use its influence to undo that mistake ....

But if they are firm on their decision , they should be outcasted and be expelled form the social framework ...

You cannot go on aginst the societal rules and then think you will be welcome in the social mainfold with warmth ......... The choice is individual

Confer to social norms or be outcasted - you cannot have the best of both worlds.

Killing is not justified - unless an expceptional reason (child sex abuse, rape+murder, harming national interest etc)

But people who want to go against the society must also be ready to face social expultion ...... Society is superior to personal wants ....

Supporting something that is against the Jat Clan and society is not Jatism my friend - its a liberal policy of appeasement

[narenderkharb]

I agree with deep sikha.

It is not a matter of male marrying out side or female doing so.

We love culture customs and values of our ancesstors and this is our heritage and identity.

On a personal note I don't want any dilution or contamination in that which is not based on superior or inferior but on a distinct identity others may have their own reasons to go for more mixing.

But it may lead to some strange combinations as ..

This site is reserved for jat churra hindus only.

Jai jat chmar killki taull..etc...etc.

[deepshi]

well, 1st set ur priorities right..
wot actually was d topic? was it about:-
1) rights f gals n boys
2) role f society in sum1s personal life
3)jat marryin a chamari or vice versa..

well, let me clarify- twas bout jat marryin in2 chamars
so talkin bout aforementioned points:-
1) GALS V/S BOYS
well, ritu babe, dont try 2 sound feminist, coz i despise them!
insecure ladies r feminists. y do v rant n reek bout d ladies bein exploited- it can b other way round too;) (well-jokin). in my opinion ppl deserve 2 b exploited only r exploited, n gettin exploited meekly is worse crime then exploiting itself!! so, insted f hemming n hawing, ladies must keep their chins up, live dignifiedly n harm none- NEVER BITCH! worst trait f ladies!!
2)ROLE F SOCIETY
i care 2 hoots bout dis goddamn society n al2gether shun it! feel m very unsocila.
ya society jib kit chali ja se jib kisse ki gellan bhundi bann jaa:mad: apney-apney khandwa me muu lakoo le sein- toye bi na paaawein - 2 hell wid it!
3) JATS MARRYIN CHAMARS- WELL, DIS BEIN D REAL TOPIC..
it has nthin 2 do wid societal presure, or man v/s woman
its bout keepin our identity + blood clean
that v r THIS!
Jats hv their own unique n distinct traits n nature, upbringing, traditions
so keep it distinct...
V HAVE NTHIN GOIN AGAINST CHAMARS, Latte dedyo- unne khaan peen ne de dyo, financially support kar dyo, has batlaa lyo- but dont bring them inside u!!!!
AS SIMPLE AS DAT!!

[balrajsejwal]

yes, i am totally agreed with vj kharub statements, we (jaats) are the one of the most superior race of the world . the feeling of being a jaat is something speciall and by intercast marriage(with any body) as we are above of all casts will lead to loose our identity, feelings, power, pride , i am totally against this intercast marriage . i am also get bit surprized by reaction of some of my jaat brothers who talks in the favour of intercast marriage. in the end i want to say, exellent to mr vj kharub for his statements.

[ritu]

1) GALS V/S BOYS
well, ritu babe, dont try 2 sound feminist, coz i despise them!
insecure ladies r feminists. y do v rant n reek bout d ladies bein exploited- it can b other way round too;) (well-jokin). in my opinion ppl deserve 2 b exploited only r exploited, n gettin exploited meekly is worse crime then exploiting itself!! so, insted f hemming n hawing, ladies must keep their chins up, live dignifiedly n harm none- NEVER BITCH! worst trait f ladies!!
what r u trying to say here deepika i am not getting it.what u mean by saying ppl deserve to be exploited r exploited.in my opinion no body deserves to be exploited.i donot care what i am sounding like here.but i am a human being before jat.and i do not see any logic in separating a couple just because the husband is chamar thats it.now they r husband and wife before chamar and jaatni.
bebe blood t blood hi se chahe vo chamar ka ho chahe jat ka.I am not saying here that we should promote marriages like this.but no body has the right to separate a married couple.look at their lives.
for me humanity comes before any caste thats it.

[panward]

Who said Europe is superior ??? I quoted Europe as an example of a dying society and not because it is superior .. and the reason why i emphasised the fact that i am living as a part and parcel of European society was for you to understnad, that i am very familiar with your liberal views and i see then in action everyday and i also see the consequences of them ...

Read your previous post. You said "Great Europe". What was so great about them? Probably that, they undertook the "white man's burden" and liberated all of us from otherwise condemned lives!

and please read me ... understand me and dont misquote me...

I've no illusions about my intelligence and I admitted it in an earlier post. So I won't hesitate to say I find myself even more baffled every time I read you. Why? Just go through what you write:

1) I am a conservative-liberal (very convenient. Having best of both worlds, if I may quote you!)

2) Jaatni can not marry chamar in any case. Jat can marry chamari and it is an offence but an acceptable one.

3) I like debating you......... don't debate me just because you want to be against me (Another Bushism. If you are not with me, you are against me.)

4) My beliefs are based on social and historical fatcs. (The only fact you gave was the that French one where you lamented that those Frenchies were losing their "Frenchness" and what's their Frenchness? These very Frenchmen massacered millions in central and west Africa while it was under their subjugation! OK this was during imperialism but even in the 20th century, these Frenchies provoked genocide in Rawanda claiming another 800,000 people.)


I come from a Jat family which has highly educated and profesionally distinguished females, who have broken the glass ceiling and are super achievers , My Mother , My aunties .................. so dont you dare label me a sexist ......

Look Mr Hammu Rabi (since you are drafting codes of law for us here), I don't know you or your family neither am I interested in doing that. Read my post and you will find I said, "I am sorry to say these remarks (Attn)are terribly fuedal and sexist". I did not say that you are sexist, however, if you think the latter was implied, I am not sorry for that.

Your conviction in what you think is admirable but then I might have to admire Osama bin laden for what he thinks and does!

Lastly, I am happy that not everyone here on this site shares this neo-Nazi ideology and some are "neo liberals" like us.



On a personal note I don't want any dilution or contamination in that which is not based on superior or inferior but on a distinct identity others may have their own reasons to go for more mixing.

I have no problem with you agreeing to any one sir. And I am happy that you said, "On a personal note...." rather asserting and generalising your thoughts for the whole society. You are free to think and do what you like, at the same time I should be allowed to do what I damn well please.

yes, i am totally agreed with vj kharub statements, we (jaats) are the one of the most superior race of the world . the feeling of being a jaat is something speciall and by intercast marriage(with any body) as we are above of all casts will lead to loose our identity, feelings, power, pride , i am totally against this intercast marriage . i am also get bit surprized by reaction of some of my jaat brothers who talks in the favour of intercast marriage. in the end i want to say, exellent to mr vj kharub for his statements

I don't know who is mistaking and misquoting Kharub. He said he does not believe in superiority and inferiority. Leave it. Tell me five things which make us jats superior. I will give you ten which make us beast like.

May be the place you hail from has jats who have just descended from heaven. In my area, half the young guys of my community are only good at lasciviously leering and passing lewd remark at womanfolk while scratching their crotch in public.

Another 30 per cent or so are dropouts who haven't cleared matriculate exam despite several efforts and now roam around highways after dusk to carry out a theft or robbery.

I think, and I mn I think, it was a sensible decision on that girls part to go for a chamaar guy rather than going for one of those above mentioned types.

It is time for us stop taking ourselves too seriously and start looking our flaws which are there to be seen. May be then after some time, we would be able say, yes we are a good (not superior) community.

Regards
-Daksh

[vikaskundu]

inter caste marriage karni to nahi chaiye especailly to chamar...but it is an individuals decision......

"jab dil aya gadhe pe to chand kya cheez hai"

[panward]

Vikas Rathee, bro please dont mind but do one thing here - replace that Jat Girl who married a chamar with your sister for one moment and now let me know your answer.

Again we are crossing swords on a different thread Yash. Nevermind:) .

Ask this question to me. If my sister had done the same thing, I would have stood by her.

I love my sister who is flesh and blood and would any day give preference to her wishes over an abstract thing like society and Prathistha, which is faceless and I can not touch.

What has this society of yours done to prevent vices like foeticide and say dowery which are so rampant in this jat samaj? Have you heard of any panchayat where perpetrators of such a heinous crimes were lynched publicly and hanged by their neck?

[balrajsejwal]

Read your previous post. You said "Great Europe". What was so great about them? Probably that, they undertook the "white man's burden" and liberated all of us from otherwise condemned lives!



I've no illusions about my intelligence and I admitted it in an earlier post. So I won't hesitate to say I find myself even more baffled every time I read you. Why? Just go through what you write:

1) I am a conservative-liberal (very convenient. Having best of both worlds, if I may quote you!)

2) Jaatni can not marry chamar in any case. Jat can marry chamari and it is an offence but an acceptable one.

3) I like debating you......... don't debate me just because you want to be against me (Another Bushism. If you are not with me, you are against me.)

4) My beliefs are based on social and historical fatcs. (The only fact you gave was the that French one where you lamented that those Frenchies were losing their "Frenchness" and what's their Frenchness? These very Frenchmen massacered millions in central and west Africa while it was under their subjugation! OK this was during imperialism but even in the 20th century, these Frenchies provoked genocide in Rawanda claiming another 800,000 people.)




Look Mr Hammu Rabi (since you are drafting codes of law for us here), I don't know you or your family neither am I interested in doing that. Read my post and you will find I said, "I am sorry to say these remarks (Attn)are terribly fuedal and sexist". I did not say that you are sexist, however, if you think the latter was implied, I am not sorry for that.

Your conviction in what you think is admirable but then I might have to admire Osama bin laden for what he thinks and does!

Lastly, I am happy that not everyone here on this site shares this neo-Nazi ideology and some are "neo liberals" like us.





I have no problem with you agreeing to any one sir. And I am happy that you said, "On a personal note...." rather asserting and generalising your thoughts for the whole society. You are free to think and do what you like, at the same time I should be allowed to do what I damn well please.



I don't know who is mistaking and misquoting Kharub. He said he does not believe in superiority and inferiority. Leave it. Tell me five things which make us jats superior. I will give you ten which make us beast like.

May be the place you hail from has jats who have just descended from heaven. In my area, half the young guys of my community are only good at lasciviously leering and passing lewd remark at womanfolk while scratching their crotch in public.

Another 30 per cent or so are dropouts who haven't cleared matriculate exam despite several efforts and now roam around highways after dusk to carry out a theft or robbery.

I think, and I mn I think, it was a sensible decision on that girls part to go for a chamaar guy rather than going for one of those above mentioned types.

It is time for us stop taking ourselves too seriously and start looking our flaws which are there to be seen. May be then after some time, we would be able say, yes we are a good (not superior) community.

Regards
-Daksh
daksh, u r getting away frm origional negotiation, which is intercast marriage.wht u had mention tht there are jaat guyz who havn"t able to clear matriculate exams and some passing lewd remarks , makes jaat community inferior to others?i would like to ask u in which other community these unfair practises and illiteracy doesn't exits, tell me which other community has superior qualities then jaat"s.
JAAT"S ARE SUPERIOR COZ THEY ARE POWERFULL, PATRIOTIC,FARMERS(the most reputated occupation of the world),all jaat's follows same tradition, language,background.
in the end ,i am stick to my opinion tht intercast marriage is not good for jaat race and the recently incident of marriage of jaat n chamaar is pathetic and shamefull.

[panward]

Vikas Rathee, bro please dont mind but do one thing here - replace that Jat Girl who married a chamar with your sister for one moment and now let me know your answer.

Now that both me and Rathee have answered your question, would you mind telling us what would have been your reaction, in this hypothetical situation, if it were your sister?

I guess, you would have tried to anull that marriage, but what if she would been fiorm on her decision? Would you have killed her then? (Accept my apologies in advance if I've gone too personal)

[panward]

daksh, u r getting away frm origional negotiation, which is intercast marriage.wht u had mention tht there are jaat guyz who havn"t able to clear matriculate exams and some passing lewd remarks , makes jaat community inferior to others?i would like to ask u in which other community these unfair practises and illiteracy doesn't exits, tell me which other community has superior qualities then jaat"s.
JAAT"S ARE SUPERIOR COZ THEY ARE POWERFULL, PATRIOTIC,FARMERS(the most reputated occupation of the world),all jaat's follows same tradition, language,background.
in the end ,i am stick to my opinion tht intercast marriage is not good for jaat race and the recently incident of marriage of jaat n chamaar is pathetic and shamefull.

I respect your opinion in toto, it's just that I don't subscribe to them.
And my opinion on your opinion is:

All generalisations are false including this one - Oscar Wilde

[deepshi]

jab dil aya ghadhey pe to chand kya chiiz he !;) :D

well, PRADA glares?!!

inter caste marriage karni to nahi chaiye especailly to chamar...but it is an individuals decision......

"jab dil aya gadhe pe to chand kya cheez hai"

[rkumar]

Freedom of individuals is supreme . If a Jat girl has decided to marry a Harijan boy and accept his caste, who are we to question her. Ofcourse we can exercise our freedom to disown her if we wish so.. Matter should end here.

RK^2

[kharub]

On the advice of some respected elders @ Jatland and Rajendra Ji's comments, i will retire form this discussion.

All my beliefs are stated in previous posts backed by logical argument and a clear discussion .... A failure to understand it, due to a lack of logical and rational thinking is not my fault .....

A bird newly set free from its cage .. thinks he can fly around the whole world in one go .. and then dies of exhaustion ..... this is your story ....

[msingh]

jaats were not the victim of tht incident vj,,,everybody new tht jats will going to do tht,,they will going to put the houses on fire....why do u think chamars didnt die in tht incident,,,they had been evacuated beforehand....this is all poltics,,and why shd we bother,,,,,even i dont support the jat and chamar marriage,,and how many people who support will marry them,,i am not against it,,but jo izzat apani caste maine se vo kissi aur maine nahin,,,jab uss chori ke parents koi prob nahin hai to why shd we say something,,,,i am sure she must have seen something in tht guy,,,,,,,,,and for your kind information what happened in sonepat - do you even know what happened there ... or you get all your information form the Jat bashing media .....

THEY KILLED A JAT YOUTH MERCILESSLY - THEY KILLED HIM LIKE AN AMINAL , BECAUSE HE PROTESTED AGAINT THEIR THUGGERY AND INDECENT PUBLIC BEHAVIOUR ......

GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT MATE ....... YOU JUST MADE MY BLOOD BOIL ....

JATS WERE THE VICTIM IN THAT SONEPAT INCEDENCE ......

the valmikis started that bloody thing in sonepat ...... Jats just reacted and thay too not properly ... and then the Valmikis got hefty compensation from the state government - as a reward for slaying a JAT ......

[deepika]

i know a guy whose father is jat and mother is american..............does it mean he is not jat??????its not about JAT identity its about an individual's identiy and life.......had she been married to any jat guy and wud have suffered then???????if u think that way its good for you.......you marry anyone you want to......but u have no rights to oppose anyone's decision when u r not concerned.......someone's whole life depends on it.......but trying to mess one's life is not fair.is it not clear that I am talking about the Jat identity - i thought it was obvious .....

Our ethnic identity - our social position and customs - our genetic identity - our identity as people -

WHY DO NOT THINK YOU HAVE ANY STRONG AND PARTICULAR JAT IDENTITY ???

CAN YOU NOT IMAGINE IT YOURSELF ???

[rakeshsehrawat]

Agar itna pyar aa raha hai jato ko baaki sab par to jatland moderators se request hai meri k jatland ka naam badal kar chamarland kar do

aur ye jo gussa dikhayee de raha hai kisi ke bhi against matlab ye ugra bhawnaiyein ye darshati hain ki aap jat ho

Believe in ur community I M Proud To be a JAT n if somebody says against it it hurts me

Sabke apni apni soch hoti hai ise koi nahi rok sakta aur mera man-na ye hai ki ye panchayat humari identity ko bachane ki koshis kar rahi hain

aur jo kehta hai ki doosri caste mein shadi karne se kuch nahi hota to ye use tab pata lagta hai jab woh apne bacho ki sadi karne ki koshis karta hai

meine ek aisa incident dekha hai jab ek admi ne doosri caste mein saadi ki thee aur apni beti ki saadi karne ke liye use kitnee problems uthani padi

mere chote bhai (my cousin) n intercaste marriege ki hai iklota hone ke bawjood mere parivar wale use ghar se nikal chuke hain aage ki mein nahi keh sakta lekin abhi bhi humare khoon mein woh jat wali garmi hai aur aaj hum yahan hain kyonki hum apni caste mein believe karte hain

[rkumar]

Agar itna pyar aa raha hai jato ko baaki sab par to jatland moderators se request hai meri k jatland ka naam badal kar chamarland kar do

aur ye jo gussa dikhayee de raha hai kisi ke bhi against matlab ye ugra bhawnaiyein ye darshati hain ki aap jat ho

Believe in ur community I M Proud To be a JAT n if somebody says against it it hurts me

Sabke apni apni soch hoti hai ise koi nahi rok sakta aur mera man-na ye hai ki ye panchayat humari identity ko bachane ki koshis kar rahi hain

aur jo kehta hai ki doosri caste mein shadi karne se kuch nahi hota to ye use tab pata lagta hai jab woh apne bacho ki sadi karne ki koshis karta hai

meine ek aisa incident dekha hai jab ek admi ne doosri caste mein saadi ki thee aur apni beti ki saadi karne ke liye use kitnee problems uthani padi

mere chote bhai (my cousin) n intercaste marriege ki hai iklota hone ke bawjood mere parivar wale use ghar se nikal chuke hain aage ki mein nahi keh sakta lekin abhi bhi humare khoon mein woh jat wali garmi hai aur aaj hum yahan hain kyonki hum apni caste mein believe karte hain

Bhai Rakesh,

Yeh sab to insaan ko pehle sochna chahiye ki uske ess kadam ka kiya fal hogaa. If some one has decided to marry outside caste then why should he or she worry about marrying his/ her kids in the same caste? Honestly we should not bother at all about such things. Let this be individual affair and let them be solely responsible for their actions. Community should not get involved at all in individual marital affairs unless they are against the Hindu marriage act as defined in constitution.

RK^2

[narenderkharb]

What has this society of yours done to prevent vices like foeticide and say dowery which are so rampant in this jat samaj? Have you heard of any panchayat where perpetrators of such a heinous crimes were lynched publicly and hanged by their neck?

I really feel sad when some members of our own community in their discussion fervo say baseless and unheard things which give a bad name to our community.

Dowery rampant in jats..????????

Which samaj are you talking about daksh.
And our khaps are most vigilant as far as this social evil is concerned issuing direction time and again to follow rule of five baratis and no dowry.
we could not achieve 100% results but efforts of our elders via khaps are 100% in this regard.I don't remember a single khap who has not passed this resolution if you know any tell me.

Second this foeticide is beyond the scope of enforcebale resolutions and khaps do talk about this problem. lastly this foeticide is present in every group and efforts of our elders in this regard are not lesser than any other samaj.

So don't say any thing without any base which throw a bad light on our society and elders.

No offence ment.

[narenderkharb]

Agreed that community have no right to interfere if some one marry outside this community.

But wiil you agree that it has the right to say that you are not a part of our community if you don't follow customs and traditions of our community.

[rakeshsehrawat]

Bhai Rakesh,

Yeh sab to insaan ko pehle sochna chahiye ki uske ess kadam ka kiya fal hogaa. If some one has decided to marry outside caste then why should he or she worry about marrying his/ her kids in the same caste? Honestly we should not bother at all about such things. Let this be individual affair and let them be solely responsible for their actions. Community should not get involved at all in individual marital affairs unless they are against the Hindu marriage act as defined in constitution.

RK^2

Sir please tell me what abt marriying a muslim gal
m i hindu or muslim????

which act applies on me?????Hindu or muslim?????
i m little bit weak in these matters and don't like intercaste marrieges

[drjatin]

Ke saang he yo???? Do they really represent mind set of people of those many villages or just self styled





This is the news in today's The Tribune




HC stops Jat Mahapanchayat






Inter-caste marriage in Bhiwani










Maneesh Chhibber







Chandigarh, June 9
Taking strong note of the unlawful and unconstitutional activities of self-styled representatives of the Jats, the Punjab and Haryana High Court today directed the district administration of Bhiwani not to allow the proposed Mahapanchayat of representatives of the community from 84 villages in Bhiwani district of Haryana to be held on June 11.
The vacation Bench headed by Mr Justice K.S. Garewal has also ordered that complete protection of a newly-wed couple and their respective families be ensured.
This order was passed on the petition filed by Surinder Kumar of Kharkari village in Bhiwani district. The self-styled leaders of the Jat community had been making life difficult for Surinder and his wife as they had married out of their respective castes. While the boy belongs to the cobbler caste, the girl belonged to the Jat community.
Highlighting his and his family’s plight, the boy had sought directions to the district administration and the police to safeguard their lives and rights.
In his petition, Surinder had stated that he got married to Poonam of Dhaman village in Sonepat district at a ceremony held in the girl’s village in May. Both families were present in the ceremony. The girl’s father, Mr Kishan Kumar, is a Subedar in the Indian Army.
While Surinder is employed with a private sector bank, Poonam is a trained staff nurse. Both were in love with each other for sometime before getting married.
Trouble began, when the bridegroom brought his wife to his native village in Bhiwani. On coming to know that he had married an upper-caste girl, the self-styled representatives of the Jat community of the village held a panchayat and questioned the marriage.
They issued a diktat to both families to dissolve the marriage or face consequences.
Refusing to bow before the unlawful pressure being put on them, the newly-weds went to Bhiwani to get the marriage registered. However, there, Poonam was allegedly forcibly picked up by members of her caste and taken away. The boy and others who were accompanying him were also beaten up.
Even though an FIR was got registered on May 23, no action was reportedly taken by the police and the girl was not united with her husband.
In fact, the petition says she might have been forcibly married off to a member of her caste.
Thereafter, on May 25, Jats of nine villages held a panchayat at Singani village(Bhiwani), in which over 6,000 persons were reportedly present. The girl’s father was also summoned to the panchayat and told to dissolve the marriage.
Here, the boy’s family was directed to return all the dowry items and also foot the expenses of the panchayat.
Still not satisfied, a maha panchayat was also ordered to be convened on June 11, where a decision about the future course of action against the members of the cobbler caste residing in the boy’s village was to be taken.
The case is yet another instance of high-handedness by co-called guardians of the caste system. In his particular case, the self-styled leaders of the Jat community were making life miserable for the entire cobbler community as a boy of their community had dared to marry a Jat girl.
Not only had the self-styled custodians of the community forcibly separated the couple, the girl had also been allegedly forced to marry another boy of her own community.
Apparently not satisfied with the punishment meted out to the boy and his family, the Jats had told them to leave their houses and go away from the village.
Surprisingly, the district’s civil and police administration did not wake up to the situation and allowed it to worsen. This is not the first such case in Haryana. Earlier also, it was the High Court that had intervened to safeguard the lives of the weaker sections facing the wrath of the influential, powerful higher class.




How can another totally unrelated person can decide which girl/guy should marry whom! it is totally pathetic mindset of frustrated people who claim to be Choudharies!

I TOTALLY CONDEMN THIS ACT OF BARBARISM BY THE MAHAPANCHAYAT!
IT REFLECTS THEIR HOLLOW MINDSET FIGHTING ON BULLSHIT ISSUES!

WHY DOENT THIS MAHAPANCHAYAT CONCENTRATE ON FIGHTING FOR EDUCATION ELECTRICITY BETTER SCHOOLS AND HOSPITALS ENSURING RESERVATION TO ECONOMICALLY BACKWARD OF OUR CASTE ( JATS OF HARYANA ARE ONLY THE ONLY JATS WHO DONT HAVE ANY RESERAVATION AN CENTRE OTR STATE)

I URGE EVERY JAT TO CONDEMN THIS PUBLICALLY AND I AM SURE ANYONE WITH A SLIGHT GREY MATTER WILL DO THIS

WE SHOULD FIGHT FOR EDUCATION JOBS AND THE BETTERMENT OF OUR SOCIETY RATHER THAN THESE BULLSHIT ISSUES
OTHERWISE WE WILL BE LEFT MILES BEHIND OTHER CASTES

I AGREE A CHAMAR IS A PERSON OF LOWER CASTE BUT HE IS ALSO A HUMAN BEING WHOSE BLOOD IS RED LIKE US WHO ALSO HAS GOT THE SAME EMOTIONS AS ANY HUMAN BEING HE ALSO FEELS HUNGRY THIRSTY LIKE US AND HE ALSO EATS ROTI AND SABZI!

AND DOES THE MAHAPANCHAYAT THINKS THAT THE GIRL IS A FOOL OR THE CHAMAR HAS HYNOTISED HER! SHE IS A MATURE HUMAN BEING AND SHE CAN DECIDE THE BEST FOR HER!

WHY SHE DECIDED TO MARRY A CHAMAR SINCE SHE FELT THERE ARE NOT SUFFICIENT EDUCATED PEOPLE WHO TREAT A WOMEN AS A HUMAN BEING IN HER CASTE OR MAYBE SHE DIDNT HAD A HANDSOME DOWRY TO PAY OR MORE SIMPLY SHE FELL IN LOVE

FALLING IN LOVE WITH ANY PERSON IS NOT A CRIME WHEN THEY HAVE DECIDED TO GET MARRIED!

THE MAHAPANCHAYAT SHOULD CONCENTRATE ON PROVIDING EDUCATION AND HEALTH FACILITIES TO PEOPLE OF OUR CASTE RATHER THAN THESE BULLSHIT ISSUES

AND I AM ALSO A JAT OF BHIWANI DISTRICT THEY DONT REPRESENT MY MINDSET AND I URGE ALL JATS AND PARTICULARLY THOSE OF MY DISTRICT(BHIWANI) TO CONDEMN THIS!

AND THANKS A LOT TO AMIT CHILLAR, POONAM SANSANWAL, VIKAS RATHEE, D PANWAR, RITU CHOUDHARY,RK SIR AND DEEPIKA SINGHROHA I READ YOUR VIEWS AND I KNOW I AM NOT ALONE THINKING IN THAT WAY BUT I WILL SAY MOST WILL THINK IN THAT WAY

AND VJ KHARAB MARRYING A PERSON OF OTHER CASTE WILL NOT LOSSEN OUR IDENTITY BUT IF WE WILL CONTINUE THIS HOLLOW MINDSET THE DAY IS NOT FAR WHEN JATS WILL BE AT THE BOTTOM OF THE SOCIAL STRUCTURE BUT I AM A SURE THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN SINCE MAJORITY OF JATS THINK IN MY WAY!

[rkumar]

But wiil you agree that it has the right to say that you are not a part of our community if you don't follow customs and traditions of our community.

Yes why not. Its very much within democratic rights of the community or individuals to expell or admit some one. I see nothing wrong in it. Even father can disown his son I suppose. Both parties are within their rights to act democratically and peacefully. If my child has right to marry as per his/ her wish, I too have my rights to express my likes or dislikes in a democratic manner. Who can stop me?

RK^2

[rkumar]

Sir please tell me what abt marriying a muslim gal
m i hindu or muslim????

which act applies on me?????Hindu or muslim?????
i m little bit weak in these matters and don't like intercaste marrieges

Norms ( and not the rule) under such matters are that the girl adopts the caste or relegion of the boy. You are very much within your rights not to like intercaste marriages and no one can stop your views on this. However, you can not force your views on others either. As par Muslim law a girl will cease to remain Muslim once she marries a non-muslim.

RK^2

[dahiyars]

Dear All

As per the Govt rules as far as I know The Couple is to be rewarded by a reward of RS 25000.

R.S.Dahiya

[vijay]

Well guys,

I don't believe in this khaps and panchayats, but my point of view is clear and straight forward regardless of what u feel.

A jat is a jat and chamaar is chamaar. No comparasions.

What you think about the parents who allowed their daughter to marry with a chamaar ? Do they have real Jat Blood ? Well, i have doubts.

Maybe some modern jats with some beautifully written thoughts may feel proud on this marriage but i am feeling ashamed about it.

Over to you.........................

[shobhitdeshwal]

Dear All,

I feel sitting in our homes... writing somethings over the net... Would hardly change the situation... The Mahapanchayat is condemned widely, but what would this lead us to, tomorrow again such things will get up and again we will sit here and condemn this???

We have had words many a times on this and other NAIVE looking issues... That this is our society and we are brought up in such a manner and shall accept the supremacy of elders.... But... We need to start to know the truth!!!! That ones life is his or her sole property and no one;... No one shall try to have his or her right over this.....

A JATNI marrying a CHAMAR... What difference does this make???? Nothing..... But... I have read people saying this fakes their identity!!!!!! Which rule book says that a Jat or a Jatni is not fre to choose his or her life????

Come... let us unite against this barbaric unwritten law... which brings shame to us... atleast me... of calling myself a Jat!!!!!This alone.... That.... I am not free to choose my life!!!!!!!! Why???

What can we do??? Dudee ji, Rajendra ji, Kharab ji, and all other seniors.... how can we come to fore against this?? Now.. talking won't lead to a way out!!!!!!

Cheers!!

Shobhit Deshwal

[vijay]

A JATNI marrying a CHAMAR... What difference does this make???? Nothing..... Cheers!!




Cheers Shobhit, for such modern thoughts. You are right ! We shoud feel proud that a Jatni is marrying a Chamaar.

Congrats bro !

[shobhitdeshwal]

Cheers Shobhit, for such modern thoughts. You are right ! We shoud feel proud that a Jatni is marrying a Chamaar.

Congrats bro !
Right Bro... So we shall assume that a Jatni and a Jat are not meant to have hearts and are not meant to be humans!!!!
A jatni.. her only flaw is that she is a jatni and can not think beyond this?? Humanity is supreme in such cases... Though our blood is getting exploited.. but the human feeling of emotion and love.... Is the most important thing!! And we shall look for it!!!

Cheers!!

Shobhit Deshwal

[vijay]

Right Bro... So we shall assume that a Jatni and a Jat are not meant to have hearts and are not meant to be humans!!!!
A jatni.. her only flaw is that she is a jatni and can not think beyond this?? Humanity is supreme in such cases... Though our blood is getting exploited.. but the human feeling of emotion and love.... Is the most important thing!! And we shall look for it!!!

Cheers!!

Shobhit Deshwal


Excellent words and thoughts, Shobhit, but not practical. Relax dear !

[drjatin]

Well guys,

I don't believe in this khaps and panchayats, but my point of view is clear and straight forward regardless of what u feel.

A jat is a jat and chamaar is chamaar. No comparasions.

What you think about the parents who allowed their daughter to marry with a chamaar ? Do they have real Jat Blood ? Well, i have doubts.

Maybe some modern jats with some beautifully written thoughts may feel proud on this marriage but i am feeling ashamed about it.

Over to you.........................


Well this is the reason that India which was known as golden sparrow in 12th century is nearly at bottom of world

I AM NOT SAYING THAT THE GIRL HAS DONE SOMETHING BRILLIANT AND THAT SHE HAS GIVEN A GOOD NAME TO OUR CASTE but is it justified to forcefully seperate her from her husband and forcing her to marry someone us?

I FAIL TO UNDERSTAND WHY THIS JAT BLOOD IS FEELING PROUD IN HARRASING A COUPLE AND RAPING THE JATNI(SHE WAS FORCED TO MARRY SOME ONE ELSE)

TODAY COUNTRIES LIKE ANGOLA AND COSTA RICA ARE PLAYING WORLD CUP AND WE ARE AT BOTTOM OF MEDAL TELLY IN OLYMPIC AND OUR MAHAPANCHAYATS ARE BUSY IN BULLSHIT THINGS WHAT A SHOW OF JATS BLOOD. THE WHOLE INDIA IS FEELING PROUD OF US AND THE WHOLE WORLD WILL FEEL PROUD OF JATS WHEN IT COMES IN BBC!

THE ROLE OF MAHAPANCHAYATS IS TO THINK ABOUT BETTERMENT OF OUR COMMUNITY AND TODAY WE HAVE TO CONCENTRATE TO EXCEL ON GLOBAL FRONT NOT TO ENGAGE IN NONSENSE THINGS

THE MAHAPANCHAYAT SPENT SO MUCH MONEY ON ASSEMBLING AND ARE FEELING PROUD ON HARRASING A COUPLE WHERE THEY SHOULD BE FOCUSSING ON THE BETTERMENT OF OUR SOCIETY

WELL DONE THE MAHAPANCHAYAT YOU HAVE DONE A COMMENDABLE JOB!
5 LAC PEOPLE FIGHTING AGAINST ONE HELPLESS COUPLE WHAT A SHOW OF BRAVERY !YA U R RIGHT VIJAY THEY HAVE SHOWN THAT THEY HAVE REAL JAT BLOOD

PEOPLE ASK ME HERE 'INDIA WITH ONE BILLION PEOPLE' AND MY HEART BURNS FROM INSIDE WHEN I THINK THAT INSPITE OF ONE BILLION PEOPLE WE ARE NOT
EVEN PLAYING WORLD CUP AND ARE AT BOTTOM OF MEDAL TELLY IN OLYMPIC SINCE OUR MAHAPANCHAYATS ARE BUSY DECIDING HOW TO HARASS A HELPLESS COUPLE, HOW TO DECLARE A MARRIED COUPLE BROTHER AND SISTER ON TOTALLY NONSENSE THINGS

WHY THE REAL JAT BLOOD IS FEELING PROUD IN HARRASING A HELPLESS
I STRONGLY BELIEVE THAT IT IS NOT JAT BLOOD

THE REAL JAT BLOOD IS IN THE JATS WHICH HAVE GIVEN US A NATIONAL AND GLOBAL NAME AND THE BLOOD WHICH IS SHED IN WAR FIGHTING THE INVADERS PROTECTING THE MOTHERLAND




Beta- Babu mhare gam mein light koni aati, koi aspatall be konya, er school mein bahut khana competition sai, kille be mahre dhore 3 e rahege. E saare gaama ke log kyon katthe ho rahe sain? ke ye school khulwawange? ya ground banwanwege jit mein fotball khelunga er pele banunga olypic mein medal le ke aaunga, ek ye light ka bandobast karan thai mahapanchayat kar rahe sain taki mein padh likh luun er naukri thaa luun

Babu- Re bawwele ke modern thought sain tere !tere mein to real jat blood se e konya! Hum mahapanchayat nu kaaran sain taki on chamaran ke ghar phookan er wo jine byah ke llaya tha unka byah tudwa ke us ne kisse aur ke saath byaah dyan! Hum me REAL JAT BLOOD se beta, hum aapna dhaan modern chizan mein na laate


EVERY JAT SHOULD FEEL SHAME IN THIS TOTALLY INAPPROPRIATE SHOW OF BRAVERY!

[rakeshsehrawat]

Norms ( and not the rule) under such matters are that the girl adopts the caste or relegion of the boy. You are very much within your rights not to like intercaste marriages and no one can stop your views on this. However, you can not force your views on others either. As par Muslim law a girl will cease to remain Muslim once she marries a non-muslim.

RK^2

Sir fir bache Hindu honge ya muslim????

aur jis ladki ne chamar se sadi ki uske bache to chamar hi kehlayenge aur fir mama ke ghar jayenge to log unhe kya kahenge????
mera view itna hai ki hum padhe likhe hain lekin ek baat bhoolte ja rahe hain ye caste system us time se suru hai jis time humare granth hi janme the kaam ke hisab se jaat bani thee... aaj jab nasa prove kar raha hai ki India aur Shri Lanka ke beech mein bridge hai jo ki sayad aaj ke engineers na bana sakein
to unhone kuch soch kar hi ye distribution kiya hoga
aur yahan jatland par padhe likho ko agar koi chamar keh de ya yun hi keh de ki chamaro ke mohalle mein rehte ho to mein dekhta hoon ki chup rehne wala kaun hai???
jo chamar kehalwane ke baad chup rehne ko tayar hai use hi in mahapanchayton ki burai karni chaiye
ya fir koi aisa jo apne ghar ki kisi larki ko intercaste marriege(In more Lower class say Chude ya shanshi) karwane ke liye raji hai

[yashmalik]

Again we are crossing swords on a different thread Yash. Nevermind:) .

Ask this question to me. If my sister had done the same thing, I would have stood by her.

I love my sister who is flesh and blood and would any day give preference to her wishes over an abstract thing like society and Prathistha, which is faceless and I can not touch.

What has this society of yours done to prevent vices like foeticide and say dowery which are so rampant in this jat samaj? Have you heard of any panchayat where perpetrators of such a heinous crimes were lynched publicly and hanged by their neck?

I think i m late
Thanx for the sound reply paward. As you said you love your sister pretty much and i m sure she loves you equally and if you care about her i m again sure she'll care about you too. And when you both care about each other so much then i guess you both would care about your parents too.

Look if someone have deep gratitudes for his family then he/she will never end up marrying against their parents will. Oh i forgot to mention one thing

MARRIAGE IS THE BIGGEST THING IN ANYONE'S LIFE

Now if someone really care about his sister he'll never support this kinda sentimental decesion. Its a question of his sister's future and moreover the future of her childern.
What that brother will want, that his sister's childern will be called a Chamar when they grow up and they'll automatically be handed up a SC logo for life which will make them inferior to the society and which will result making them mentally and socially retarded. Now what the future result will be ? A Jatni's emotional decesion.! which runined her future, her children's future and the coming generations in this socially backward Indian society where people achieve their success on the behalf of their casts.

Sorry i wont let my sister ruin her life, no matter how much i love her

[prashantacmet]

oooooooooo Bhai Raathi................ ek chotti si baat mharri bhi sun le tu................ nu kaha kare."Jibb ghar main ek chorra badchalan hojja to issa lagge jyooker ghar tai baahar thook diya ho, par jibb ek chhorri badchalan hojja ne to issa lagge jyooker kissi ne bahar tai ghar main thook diya ho".......... shyana manas hai tu to iss baat ne simajh le............

& my dear bro, fact is , still we are so far away from that type of equality which u are advocating here. Our surroundings , our society cannot accept that.......... Things are being shedded in the urban areas to some extent but situation remains same in rural areas where u & me born & brought up......................

jisski chhorri chamar ke chorre ke gail bhaaj ja uski gaam mai haalat dekh le tu........... madak se byoont ka aadmi bhi kanpatte pe saha r de usske......................

So it's our responsibility to maintain the honour & prestige of our parents in that way as so called SAMAJ thinks................
hey vj.... listen bro... i don want to b against u....... nd y shall i......... i damn care abt tht.......arr tu kunsa meri jhotti kholl ke le gyaa jo main tere aginst jhanda thaaunga .......

now u keep on sain tht marryin a SC boy by a JAT GIRL is a superior offence nd its obvious tht we r alws ready to punish the grl who does so...... so its tht killing wt i m saing........ its not although related to ur quotes or wtever........ who cares abt tht wt u r quoting or nt........... bt my view is jus a general one okk...... not against u....... now u plz dont start saing tht i havnt said this n tht y r u saing this.........

and yeah the thing is tht i m here standing the thought nd acts of jats who r so straight forward in taking decisions to kill their daughters nd sisters jus after they gt to know tht she has married a SC boy........

nd on the other side if their son does so.... they r like chalta hai chaudhary saab....... ibb ikklauta chora thaa ka kartey.... ghar tee kaadha bhi tee naa jaamtaa......... ARR JAAT KEE BYAAH HOEE PAACHEE TEE CHORRII AAPEE EE JAATNI HO JAAGI............

jus tell me if m wrong here........... nd forget abt personal quotes nd unquotes .........

nd yes if u really feel m wrong here thn yeah i m happy being wrong like this nd will do wtever i cud to stop this misshappening in our society.....

nd yes vj u also said tht i m trying to become modern out here......... haah.... is thinking like this states me modern in ny context... aree do we really need to prove how much jatism is inside us or abt my family how closely we r related to this community JAT........

brother ..... thinking of a jat girl in such situation is i think a jus part of my concern to b called as jat..... AND OBVIOUSLY A GOOD REASON TO TELL U Y THE HELL I M HERE ON JATLAND..........

being on jatland nd shouting all the time we r jats ... we will do this n tht for our community n all ....... wee need to look into ourselves nd see wt actually we can do towards tht feeling of helping nd doing something for the JAT community...........

I THINK IF U CAN GIVE A JAT GIRL WHO IS LET LIVE HER LIFE WHO MADE HER MIND TO SPEND HER LIFE WITH SMONE SHE THOUGHT RIGHT THEN I THINK ITS A REAL HELP U CAN DO TO BRING THIS FEELING OF JATISM FORWARD........

[rkumar]

Sir fir bache Hindu honge ya muslim????

aur jis ladki ne chamar se sadi ki uske bache to chamar hi kehlayenge aur fir mama ke ghar jayenge to log unhe kya kahenge????
mera view itna hai ki hum padhe likhe hain lekin ek baat bhoolte ja rahe hain ye caste system us time se suru hai jis time humare granth hi janme the kaam ke hisab se jaat bani thee... aaj jab nasa prove kar raha hai ki India aur Shri Lanka ke beech mein bridge hai jo ki sayad aaj ke engineers na bana sakein
to unhone kuch soch kar hi ye distribution kiya hoga
aur yahan jatland par padhe likho ko agar koi chamar keh de ya yun hi keh de ki chamaro ke mohalle mein rehte ho to mein dekhta hoon ki chup rehne wala kaun hai???
jo chamar kehalwane ke baad chup rehne ko tayar hai use hi in mahapanchayton ki burai karni chaiye
ya fir koi aisa jo apne ghar ki kisi larki ko intercaste marriege(In more Lower class say Chude ya shanshi) karwane ke liye raji hai

1. Hindu Husband, wife ex-muslim----- Kids will be Hindus
2. Husband Harijan and wife Jat------- Kids Harijan. And if marriage was by mutual consent, and parents of both blessed it, why should girls brother worry about if their Bhanje are Harijan ? Whys should you and me bother about all this as its none of our problem. Why should it be taken as a entire Kaum's issue?

RK^2

[yashmalik]

yash...... frst of all i want to make it clear to u tht i m not saying things just for the sake f saying it........ right... my sis or ny known grl is far more precious to me than ur this bloody TIGERHOOD........ its obvious tht i want her to get married to a jat only bt as u went so much into it i jus wana say tht i m goin to support my sis wtever this clan or ur pure blood theory may suggest....... just hell with it......

nd i feel pity on the views u really carry with u........ its digusting u used artificial insemination there.....haah....... o cmon dude..... does it really make a difference ........ kit haanddee sai tera dimaakk.... please check out whether the CELLS OF BRAVERY R VANISHED WHILE PROCESS OF ARTIFICIAL INSEMINATION...?? wt a remark........

poor walk......... poor hunter...... wt r u trying to disclose i dont knw........

and after all do u really think this is the theory applicable amoung the civilised society....?? jus dont b diploomatic nd dont b the person who changes faces with the change of wind..... make ur thoughts clear nd by shouting like this tht my clan or my race u r not doin ny good to ur own clan...... if u really wana do good thn try to get into the need f the time nd think .........

nd yes .. i wont ask wt ur step gonna b if ur sm knwn one takes this step thn wt wud b ur reaction... because i knw ur ans mus b tht... GOLLII KAADD DENGEY.... wt else u cud do .... KAADEE JAAOO GOLLII ARR KAR LYOO MANN KII...

nd yeah ur duty to maintain these qualities........????????????????

ur frst duty is to protect ur country borders nd thn ur family........ nd this protection also includes to do the needful to the family whn it asks for.... nd when these situations arise thn u jus bombard ur family with ur FIR os HATRED nd go nd join some ur so called QUALITY MAINTING CLUB OF JATISM....... i wonder if u wud find nyone there in tht club

Vikas bhai, on one hand you are accusing me of not providing basic facts and on another you are stuggling to make yourself heard with the above posted personal comments. Stop having pity over my views and place your basic arguments here.

Ok, lemme answer you

My real cousin was fighting on the tiger hills in Kargil way back in 1999 against the enemy. He killed 7 enemies alone and was killed fighting for the sake of the country. He was just 29.

You know what motivated him to fight.. the same 'Tigerhood' which you are calling 'bloody'. You cant even imagine the josh he had. The commander in the patalian urged him with these words

"Tu Jat ka chhora hai, er Jat kade bhi haar konya manna karte. Tera khoon pani konya, ja jake baras ja dushmana pe er dikhade unhe ki asli Jat ka beej kitna sachcha hoya kare. Ja ja ke jatta ki chhatti ne chora kar er dushmana ne ragad de"

There are plenty of Jatlanders here who have defence background if you have any doubt then its your wish to ask them that weather patalians in Indian Army are motivated on the basis of their race and caste or not during wars.

Rathee, i m a proud Jat and always will be. NO BODY IN THIS HELL CAN CHANGE ME. The comments you posted are the outbursts of your anger, rosed by my question. From Art. Ins. i wanted to tell ya A Tiger Is a Tiger if he is born from the blood of a Tiger.

Have you ever heard a Tigress being mothered by a fox. Or have you ever heard a female Elephant being inseminated by an Ox. If these animals are so scincere with their race and breeds then why the hell people like you are rubbing themselves day and night to make new samaj and adarsh no matter what the baseless propoganda they might have to use.

Okay now lemme again share a story with ya:
One day an egg of a wild eagle accidently fell from the nest located on the top of a hill. That egg dropped in the nest of a hen where there were six or more hen's eggs were laying. The chicken thought that eagle's egg to be one of her eggs. After few days Egg plates broke and chickens came out, the baby alien too joined them. Soon they grew up eating worms and danas.

One day all brothers were busy in finding worms beneath earth's chest then suddenly the alien brother spotted something in the sky. He asked his brothers "what's that beautiful bird flying miles in the sky" ? They answered "Its a wild eagle, and you should stop dreaming to be that coz you are merely a chicken who can only fly few feets over the ground"
The poor alien had no idea that he is the one who is the king of the sky, he is the one who is born to win, he is the one who is the 'Wild Eagle'.

Here i m not saying the girl has taken the wrong decesion for herself, but she surely has gifted her children a SC tag which will stick to their mind and body for life. The same tag will prevent her childred to excel, the same tag will make them inferior to themselves and to the world, the same tag will result more and more lives depending themselves for reservations and quotas.

If you want this kinda future for your sister and her children then Good Luck.

[prashantacmet]

terri baat ne merri bhittar bhi josh ana diya Bhai yash................Some new westernized Jats are trying to abuse our community's dignity & proud. On one hand they show the arrogant style same as in blood of Jats, on other hand they show sympathy & softeness for some acts which are really condemnable....It's really shows some bad symbol for our community.............These Jats are dangerous for our community"s future......................yeh SANKAR jaatoien ke FAUJ banwenge........... Naash howewega inn jaattoien ka eibb to............ eiibb to nuoey keh ek"I am proud of Jat" per nu kaha karengee "I am proud of being hybrid of a JAT & CHAMAR.........."................. merre Simajh main nuoey ni aaya.............jo yeh JAT_CHAMAR ki shaadi ne support kar rhe............. inhe iss site tai nyari doosri jagah kona paayi ke............................sharma jaao........... iitne modern na bano eibbhi tai............ yu ISHQPISHQ 5-7 din main thandda padd le.......... jibb paachhe pai 5-7 kamokde laage............................
Vikas bhai, on one hand you are accusing me of not providing basic facts and on another you are stuggling to make yourself heard with the above posted personal comments. Stop having pity over my views and place your basic arguments here.

Ok, lemme answer you

My real cousin was fighting on the tiger hills in Kargil way back in 1999 against the enemy. He killed 7 enemies alone and was killed fighting for the sake of the country. He was just 29.

You know what motivated him to fight.. the same 'Tigerhood' which you are calling 'bloody'. You cant even imagine the josh he had. The commander in the patalian urged him with these words

"Tu Jat ka chhora hai, er Jat kade bhi haar konya manna karte. Tera khoon pani konya, ja jake baras ja dushmana pe er dikhade unhe ki asli Jat ka beej kitna sachcha hoya kare. Ja ja ke jatta ki chhatti ne chora kar er dushmana ne ragad de"

There are plenty of Jatlanders here who have defence background if you have any doubt then its your wish to ask them that weather patalians in Indian Army are motivated on the basis of their race and caste or not during wars.

Rathee, i m a proud Jat and always will be. NO BODY IN THIS HELL CAN CHANGE ME. The comments you posted are the outbursts of your anger, rosed by my question. From Art. Ins. i wanted to tell ya A Tiger Is a Tiger if he is born from the blood of a Tiger.

Have you ever heard a Tigress being mothered by a fox. Or have you ever heard a female Elephant being inseminated by an Ox. If these animals are so scincere with their race and breeds then why the hell people like you are rubbing themselves day and night to make new samaj and adarsh no matter what the baseless propoganda they might have to use.

Okay now lemme again share a story with ya:
One day an egg of a wild eagle accidently fell from the nest located on the top of a hill. That egg dropped in the nest of a hen where there were six or more hen's eggs were laying. The chicken thought that eagle's egg to be one of her eggs. After few days Egg plates broke and chickens came out, the baby alien too joined them. Soon they grew up eating worms and danas.

One day all brothers were busy in finding worms beneath earth's chest then suddenly the alien brother spotted something in the sky. He asked his brothers "what's that beautiful bird flying miles in the sky" ? They answered "Its a wild eagle, and you should stop dreaming to be that coz you are merely a chicken who can only fly few feets over the ground"
The poor alien had no idea that he is the one who is the king of the sky, he is the one who is born to win, he is the one who is the 'Wild Eagle'.

Here i m not saying the girl has taken the wrong decesion for herself, but she surely has gifted her children a SC tag which will stick to their mind and body for life. The same tag will prevent her childred to excel, the same tag will make them inferior to themselves and to the world, the same tag will result more and more lives depending themselves for reservations and quotas.

If you want this kinda future for your sister and her children then Good Luck.

[prashantacmet]

Rajendra Ji.......... Let me explain a bit.........
We are Jats......having a repo in this society due to our arrogant style, traditions , culture., strictness..........If any hard decision is not taken on such issue, for sure in coming time such steps will be in excess...........koi bhi cHHORRI bhaaj leggi kissi ke Gailla........ Our repo,dignity will be degraded....... JAATOIEN ko koi kuch nahi samjheggaa......... JISS GAAM ki aar JISS GOTRA ki chorri ne yu itna burra kaam kara........... uss GAAM ke riste bhi lene main daran laag jyange......INTERNET access karan aalo ke to kaam chaal jyaange..........par unka KAAM kona challe jonsse waastav main Jaat(GAAM aale) hai.......... Duniya GOO bhareggi JAATOIEN ke MUH main.................ista bada kalank koi na mharre maathhe pai........... uss chhorri ne to faassi dedo...aarr susrre GEETALL ke golli kahad do bichalle ku........... fer kuch khauff to baith jaagya in sirfirre premiyon ke bhittar............................

Don'y u think 80% jatas are living in villages......... They are not westernized(CHAMAR_JAAT ki Byaah ne support karan aale).... by these supporting remarks we are only hurting their emotions.......................................
1. Hindu Husband, wife ex-muslim----- Kids will be Hindus
2. Husband Harijan and wife Jat------- Kids Harijan. And if marriage was by mutual consent, and parents of both blessed it, why should girls brother worry about if their Bhanje are Harijan ? Whys should you and me bother about all this as its none of our problem. Why should it be taken as a entire Kaum's issue?

RK^2

[sunitahooda]

Well....read few of the posts by VJ/Rathee n Deepshikha....though it gives a geek feeling to think of marrying a Non-Jat and that too a chamar....but when it comes to the Women's liberation....i strongly support Vikas Rathee....Why this hue and cry is generally not made when a JAT BOY does so???? Also i dont feel any boy or girl asks the other person....teri caste ya gaut bata jibbey mai tere tai pyar karunga/karungi???? doesn't it sound funny....aur agar aise sawaal poochey jatey to ye intercaste marriages shuru hi nahi hoti....whats the issue if the girl didn't find a suitable JAT BOY in her own opinion....arr manne ye socalled....LAMBEY-THADDEY/SUTHREY/KAMAU arr KHANDANI JAT CHHOREY BI BHATEREY DUKH DETE DEKHEY SAIN:mad: :(

[prashantacmet]

Shobit bhai........... kya kehne aapke........aap bhi Dil ki hi sunte hai....................do u know what is the most unstable things in this world........... HEART......... if this is not so............ the two persons ffall in love ties in knot against their parents's consent & after one of two year
move for divorce proceddings...................I think all westernized JAATS know about this ............ because it's so common in western culture................forget about this eternal love..........& try to do something which will give a high forehead to your parents & ur community............. Bhagat Singh ne ishq kona kara tha........... 23 SAAL ki umar main SHAHEED holiya tha wo.................
Right Bro... So we shall assume that a Jatni and a Jat are not meant to have hearts and are not meant to be humans!!!!
A jatni.. her only flaw is that she is a jatni and can not think beyond this?? Humanity is supreme in such cases... Though our blood is getting exploited.. but the human feeling of emotion and love.... Is the most important thing!! And we shall look for it!!!

Cheers!!

Shobhit Deshwal

[sampuran]

Dear all
Ram Ram. I am a late entrant to this debate and have not read mnost of the reacions. Still let me try to put forward a few things

Intercaste marriage is a personal and family choice. Wider society should not a have vehement opposition as long as established norms like not marrying witihn same village, or close family, etc are followed.

Feeling pride in Jat blood is a matter of inculcation by parents and elders. IOn this incident, the girl wants to marry and family has no opposition, obviously they have no special pride of being Jat and no ambition to keep the bloodline pure. Thier choice, why should an outsider have a problem. Afterll, most of us, or those who are organising a Mahapanchyat, have never shared the other joys and sorrows of the family.


At the same time, the interference of Court is a serious matter. Tomorrow somebody may break all social norms and community traditions, to the detriment of the society. Certainly no civil court of India understands the Jat social traditions, and will invariably try to impose its own interpretatinos on the ciommunity. That is alarming.

The wider question before us is HOW TO ENSURE COURTS DO NOT INTERFER IN OUR SOCIAL TRADITIONS WHERE COMMUNITY INTERESTS ARE GENIUNLY THREATENED.

or HOW TO EDUCATE THE MODERNIST COURTS THAT THEY SHOULD MAKE AND EFFORT TO EDUCATE THEMSELVES ABOUT JAT COMMUNITY.

PS : Shouild we also ask for an independent Personal Law Board like the muslims ?

[rkumar]

....PS : Shouild we also ask for an independent Personal Law Board like the muslims ?

and then every caste follows the same? India will have 36000 Personal Law Boards? Are we unifying India or dividing India? Is India so week that one marriage is enough to break it or make us think about having a Personal Law Board? No wonder India is what our mentality is... We will keep wasting our time in proving our supremacy through talks and do very little to improve our society which is infected with so many ills. If there are people who draw pride in being called backward and getting reservations, by same logic there is nothing wrong with this Jat girl going a step forward and joining SC category to ensure reservations for her coming generations.

RK^2

[amitranamba]

Ye biran log se... tu mere pe kicchad ger mei tere pe... ar yo sarkar mei bi to ye hi sanki posted hai sarey... mahapanchayat ka ke fayda if they cannot keep up with time... people are moving free in society now sarey ghumme ... mobile rakkhe chattin kare if u have given them this freedom them how can you stop on their feelings... ar Jat bi to OBC bange khud is case me Chamaar mhare te aggey hi hai. Then they wont feel insulted. Agar donno padhe likhe hai ar ghar chala sake to rehen do ya to pehle hi rokte. Bas mhari bejjati hogi ar kat do mar do apas mei gali galoch karke biran holo. You cant find a solution for them therefore. Even 50% of ppl married in same caste have insultin issues. Modern bi banenge ar dimag bi backward rakhenge. Waise bi to ye idhar udhar muh marte hai tab kaha ja inki samajik reputation.
I agree Jat marrying a jat girl for sure, par practical bi to bano. Bina markaat kare kam ni hotta ke? Fir bi to sarkar se sunai...
Jatto me bhya karo khus raho ... Sarey Jat bhai ek dusre ka sahyog karo ar apna naas na karo. Self respect high rakho.:) :) Bhai koi bura na maniyo meri kisi bat kaa...

[spdeshwal]

Dear Members,

I have a dear friend who incidently was born in Chamar family. He is a highly respected docter in his speciality and a superb human being.He has married with a jat girl and have two beautiful kids. Now i can't imagine my this friend going through all this **** of these khap panchayats like the poor guy in the present case.

To me, this act of so called mahapachayat is most inhuman and cowardice. Most deplorable act! These panchaytees are losers and suffering from sick mentality.

Sampuran bhai, perhaps you did not read the news report in the begining of the thread. The division bench of high court was headed by a jat justice K.S Grewal. So there is no reason for your apprehention that no civil court understand the general jat social traditions.

cheers!

[prashantacmet]

If elders will instigate to youngers to do such shameful & disgusting act..............Destruction of Jat community is round the corner........... be prepare to see ur downfall...........
Dear Members,

I have a dear friend who incidently was born in Chamar family. He is a highly respected docter in his speciality and a superb human being.He has married with a jat girl and have two beautiful kids. Now i can't imagine my this friend going through all this **** of these khap panchayats like the poor guy in the present case.

To me, this act of so called mahapachayat is most inhuman and cowardice. Most deplorable act! These panchaytees are losers and suffering from sick mentality.

[sunitahooda]

Prashant....some of these JAT BOYS dont have the kind of respect....which may be that Chamar Boy has for that Jat Girl....and i dont need to mention here....hope you understood what i mean:) If elders will instigate to youngers to do such shameful & disgusting act..............Destruction of Jat community is round the corner........... be prepare to see ur downfall...........

[ritu]

prashant destruction of jat community k liye aur bhatare factors h.and why u have written ur downfall.tu bhi to hum sabke sath hoga ek nahi.


If elders will instigate to youngers to do such shameful & disgusting act..............Destruction of Jat community is round the corner........... be prepare to see ur downfall...........

[prashantacmet]

theek hai bobbo......... hor kaaran to tajhe baara hogya.........majhe to bas itna pata......... ek yeh westernized jat jo kuch to india mai hi reh ke westeren hogye ar kuch to kher amreeka, england main reh re.......... ek yeh aapne ghar -pariwar, maa-baap ki izzat aabru tai jyaada emotions ku importance derre.............kal ku ek chorra kahan lagga ek mere to emotions nu keh reh ek main to 5-7 beerbaaniyon ne raakhunga.......... maan logyo uski baat......... kuch niyam kanoon .......... izzat aabroo bhi hai ek jyooker emotions keh nuo