GUJJAR Reservation

[rajoura]

Hi Guys

I Would like to know, what impact will come on JATS if Gujjar get reservations?

Thanks
Sanjeev

[dahiyarules]

Jats will have a reason to work hard and be successful and Gujjars will sink down the sludge to the level of the Chamaars who havent been able to recover despite 60 years of reservations and special treatment.

Good luck Rajoura saab! I hope you promote this message in your community.

[netrapalsingh]

Jat already OBC me hai ye ladayee ST ke liye hai or Gujjar hee ST kee haqdaar the parantoo voto kee rajnitee ke karan Meenas ST me agayee
kyonkee Meena vots jyada hai banaspat gujjar vots ke.

Gujjar Bhed-Bakriyo revad rakhte the or jagah jagah ghoomte rahte the
or Schedule-Tribes me is kaaran gujjars hee hate hai. Or isee haq kee ab ladayee hai. Ye bat Choudhar Charan Singh ne Nehru jee ko bhoot pahale hee bata dee thee. Meena Shuru se hee jamidar kom rahi hai.

netra.....

[narendra81]

ram ram bhaiyon.....

netrpal ji bhai sahab aapki ye baat kuch jami nahin ki meena humesha se hee jamidar rahe hain... maine to suna hai ke wo hamesha se hee jaanwaron ke chori karte thaae and were not at all prosperios or civilized....

now about gujjar issue...
what i think is that may be this voilence is bad on first sight but in a long run this disturbence (including resrvation related issues all over nation) will ultimatly lead to the end of reservation.
because when these things will attain certain level then everybody(including reserved ones) will see the negative seen of the reservation and then at that moment it will be followed by a sudden step by government to end reservation.

[rameshlakra]

Can't agree more with Mandiwal bhai's View. This may lead to end to Reservation

[narendra81]

ok ramesh ji let me try to elaoborate....

see there are two possibilities for a movment from wrong to right..

1. we know in advance that itz going to be wrong and letz not do it.
2. Letz do it, if it turns to be wrong then we will switch.

Wht is happening with reservation issue is the second case.
At the moment, I think government knows that itz wrong but only issues is that any step to end reservation will lead to a polytical crisis at least for that government or the party. I know itz unfortunate but true that this is strong factor for government not to end resrvation.

Ok, then only possibility when this decision can be taken by government (here I assume that gov. is willing to end reservation) is, when it faces least resistance from ppl.
Now least resistance will come only when there is nothing good left in the reservation.

This voilenece all over may lead to two possibilities.

1. Goverment will oppose it and in turn voilence goes stronger, may it gets
worse and so worse that one day everyone satrts thinking that what all we
are getting out of it? can't we stop all this. May be at that moment gov.
go for ending it expecting least resistence. So it ends well.

2. gov. may accept their demands and faviour the reservation theory. This
will further encourage other ppl (general category) to demand reservation
and may I tell you, itz happening in rajasthan when rajputs and even
brahmins(i m not sure) demanded it at one point of time. So again if
opposed by gov., it will lead to point one. if accepted, then the point two
will be repeated until so much reservation will be given that no relevance
left. This again leads to end it with expecting least resistence from people.

Ramesh ji itz all my perception developed by accumulating somes facts and logics. May be I am wrong but still I think so.

We can discuss this anyway so that issue can be analysed better.

regards,
narendra

[netrapalsingh]

ram ram bhaiyon.....

netrpal ji bhai sahab aapki ye baat kuch jami nahin ki meena humesha se hee jamidar rahe hain... maine to suna hai ke wo hamesha se hee jaanwaron ke chori karte thaae and were not at all prosperios or civilized....

now about gujjar issue...
what i think is that may be this voilence is bad on first sight but in a long run this disturbence (including resrvation related issues all over nation) will ultimatly lead to the end of reservation.
because when these things will attain certain level then everybody(including reserved ones) will see the negative seen of the reservation and then at that moment it will be followed by a sudden step by government to end reservation.

ye bat shee hai kee meena chori karte the parantoo inkee sankhya bhoot kam thee jyadatar meene kheti karte the. Ajaadi se pahale jab rajppoto ka shashan tha tab meene inhe surag diya karte the kee fala gadh me kya hai fala rajpoot kis par aagrman karega to ye rajpooto ke najdeek hone ke karan kai kai beega jameen ka milk ho gaye.

Rajasthan me Dosa, Sawaimadhopur, Kota, Alwar, Tonk, Bundi, ye sare meena bahunlya kchetra rahe hai or sampanna meene hai kheti par hee nirbhar rahe hai shuru se Jaipur ke Ass pass Jat kee banaspat meene jyada hai or jato se jyada jagrook hai.

To Bhai Narender Meena to Shuru see hee sampann or jagrook hai
aaj se das sal pahale kee bat hai Lalsoot ka ek meena apne chore kee bahoo ko Halicoptor me legya tha vida kara kar.

Netra.....

[narendra81]

Thanks netrapal ji for sharing...
It was my lack of knowledge on meenas indeed.
bhai sahab manne jyada gyan nahin hai meena ke bare mein isliye jo suna tha wo aapse kah diya... :)

[netrapalsingh]

ok ramesh ji let me try to elaoborate....

see there are two possibilities for a movment from wrong to right..

1. we know in advance that itz going to be wrong and letz not do it.
2. Letz do it, if it turns to be wrong then we will switch.

Wht is happening with reservation issue is the second case.
At the moment, I think government knows that itz wrong but only issues is that any step to end reservation will lead to a polytical crisis at least for that government or the party. I know itz unfortunate but true that this is strong factor for government not to end resrvation.

Ok, then only possibility when this decision can be taken by government (here I assume that gov. is willing to end reservation) is, when it faces least resistance from ppl.
Now least resistance will come only when there is nothing good left in the reservation.

This voilenece all over may lead to two possibilities.

1. Goverment will oppose it and in turn voilence goes stronger, may it gets
worse and so worse that one day everyone satrts thinking that what all we
are getting out of it? can't we stop all this. May be at that moment gov.
go for ending it expecting least resistence. So it ends well.

2. gov. may accept their demands and faviour the reservation theory. This
will further encourage other ppl (general category) to demand reservation
and may I tell you, itz happening in rajasthan when rajputs and even
brahmins(i m not sure) demanded it at one point of time. So again if
opposed by gov., it will lead to point one. if accepted, then the point two
will be repeated until so much reservation will be given that no relevance
left. This again leads to end it with expecting least resistence from people.

Ramesh ji itz all my perception developed by accumulating somes facts and logics. May be I am wrong but still I think so.

We can discuss this anyway so that issue can be analysed better.

regards,
narendra

ye rajnitik stant hai government bhee isme kya karegee do din ka khel hai khatam ho jayega. kuch nahi hota mai in sab ko jantaa hoo ye ek thaili ke chatte batte hai. Do char or marenge shor sharaba hoga 8-10 din me sab shant ho jayega...............Jato ko OBC me kise liya tha. Kya jato ne koi andolan kiya tha ya koi base jaliee thee fir mila kyo deemak se Dr. Ishwar Singh Nehtra, jisko bhoot kam log jante hai injaise state forward warkaro sare jato ek manch par ektra kiya saree bhoomeeka banee, Governmnent ko ek manch par ek hokar dikhya tab jaar kar jato ko arakshan mila tha. Aise Buse jalane se kam hota to Mandal Ayog lagoo hee nahi hota us samay bhee poora desh jal utha tha kitne logo ne atmdah kiya tha maloom hai.

netra.....

[rajoura]

I think gujjar should not get reservation because they have chosen a wrong way of getting it. We Jats had a proper plan and were more united and organized in our plans. That is why we got it. If Gujjar will get reservation on the basis of voilence than it will be tough to stop meenas because they are more powerful and influential than Gujjars in Rajasthan

Thanks

Sanjeev

[desijat]

Let us take it point by poing (with my view point)

1. How did Meenas get reservation?

There was a Meena tribe called Bheel-Meena who was a genuinly a tribe and they were proposed to be granted reservation. But when the proposal was read by Government they mistook it as BHEELS and MEENAS as 2 different communities and both of them got reservation. Hence, it is really not justified.

2. Gurjars and Meenas - do they deserve reservation?

They both have been rulers in the past, they live at similer areas and both face similar problems

Hence if one is said to be derserving for reservations, so is other.

3. Should jats also join Gurjars to get SC quota?

In my opinion there should be no reservation, for Jats specially..... Reservation makes people dependable and people stop working, they stop thinking and take things for granted which ultimately is not good for them and for the nation.


On the contrary, Jats, even if they want reservation should keep quite for a while till this Gurjar episode is on. See the end result of it and then take some action. More over Jats are under OBC in UP and Rajasthan and if we protest to be in SC we might have to share our OBC Res. too, which we hardly use as of now.

An open question to jats here, Would anyone like to be called an SCHEDULE CAST/OBC just for the heck of reservation?

[amit_sehrawat]

hi i wanted to say something about this issue of reservation...caste based reservation will have more fissiparous effect on the entire country,,and now the area s around delhi are burning...that day is not far away if politicians and soem people from different casters continue to ignite flame of caste issues will ultimately lead to the burning of the house.we should not forget that todays world is a very competitive world. and we cant be away from this globalization scenario in which work matters ...next 30ition from the whole world if india and its people have to really strive towrds something...now these guys who are burning buses and stopping trains around delhi are basically getting financed and supported by the some landlords of the same caste who have become richer by the increase in the property prices around national highway ..now these guys are instigating the local unemployed youth to go for st qouta...will it make any diffrence to those thousand and thousnads of gujjar youth who dont know that they are mere used as pawns by the so called patriah of gujjar community... in my opinion the reservation should be poverty based no caste based...becuase .1. the caste based discrimation is already over and by certain provisions of the constitution...2. the creamy layer and well off people in the obc and st section uses this reservation as a ploy not only to get into higer govermental positions but becoming patriah of the caste and further dividing people on caste lines...if we remove reservations on the basis of caste..the poor and unprivilged will be united to form a bigger force so that they can fight with the imperialism of cpitalist society...i m not in favour of total communism,,that was a failure but an equally playing field for all...if some child is borne poor in our country then he should br privilgrd to have some compesation that he can go for upward social mobility by some amount of reservation...this will increase competition in poor class...and by this way we will be able to bring 26% poor living below poverty line into thrivfing middle class which wants to excel itself into every field...bye the way its all poor and people below poverty line who become pawn in hands of each and every casste patriah be it mayawati be it some col baisla from gujjar community....our society is interdepent and we have to understand it...the great jat leader chaudhary chhotu ram was always for poor and peasents be it jats ahir gujjar hindu muslim and thas why he was so great and could able to bring prosperity to this region by total uplifment of poor in to a stage where they can educate thier children..he dint divide peole on castist lines....this is right movement for the leaders oof all the community to sit down to work for prosperity to teach each and every person under his guidance that todays need is work...and by work only better opportunities and better wolrd can be created ..not by killing and burning each other....and the mad dogs who dont listen to all this will not only bring dooms day for them selves but they are blood sucking parasites for the society ..these parasites are always product of corruption and wrong deeds and they spread it further and further....now greateness is understanding and stopping this menace and not becoming fools by burning our own hands by burning our own hands in the fire ignited by some parasites of the society...

[jitender_singh]

Hi Vikas,

I am not sure but i have heard that Jats in UP are still not getting benefits of OBC reservation ..
as mulayam singh yadav filed one writ in supreme court aginst the reservation for jats in UP.

and i Think Morever at central level Jats have no reservation at all..

so it would be really beneficial if Jats get reservation in central govt jobs...

Regards
Jitender


Let us take it point by poing (with my view point)

1. How did Meenas get reservation?

There was a Meena tribe called Bheel-Meena who was a genuinly a tribe and they were proposed to be granted reservation. But when the proposal was read by Government they mistook it as BHEELS and MEENAS as 2 different communities and both of them got reservation. Hence, it is really not justified.

2. Gurjars and Meenas - do they deserve reservation?

They both have been rulers in the past, they live at similer areas and both face similar problems

Hence if one is said to be derserving for reservations, so is other.

3. Should jats also join Gurjars to get SC quota?

In my opinion there should be no reservation, for Jats specially..... Reservation makes people dependable and people stop working, they stop thinking and take things for granted which ultimately is not good for them and for the nation.


On the contrary, Jats, even if they want reservation should keep quite for a while till this Gurjar episode is on. See the end result of it and then take some action. More over Jats are under OBC in UP and Rajasthan and if we protest to be in SC we might have to share our OBC Res. too, which we hardly use as of now.

An open question to jats here, Would anyone like to be called an SCHEDULE CAST/OBC just for the heck of reservation?

[alok4kal]

Hi,
I believe that the whole concept of reservation based on caste is a curse for the nation.It is a misuse of the national resources which the parliamentrians do not hesitate to implement for their own share of votes. It is their selfish motive. I hope we all would get a respite from Supreme court's verdict soon wherein I believe economically backwardness would be the sole criterion for reservations.

Caste based reservations is a means to divide the country and rule. This is what the Britishers did to us. The same systems that were used by the british to rule colonial India have been replicated by the subsequent Indian Governments. The Systems we have in India are not democratic. Now, that meenas and Gujjars have plunged into this conflict.Previously, it was reservation lobby with non reservationists etc..etc.. the governments have their own vested interests to remain in Power.In effect it is people like Arjun Singh and sonia ghandhi who are flourishing(Now that he is has been nominated for the presidency of India).Now that they are trying to get 15% reservation for Muslims as well!! trying to secure the future of her son Rahul because politics is a family bussiness now. so, they can play with the future of millions of indians for the sake of one politician son.

I can assure you that even in our community there are lakhs of us who are very poor.Our great country could surely come up provided we abolish the caste system as a whole.How can we decide the fate of a person by virtue of him being born in a family of Chamar.Is it just??

[sktewatia]

Hi Guys

I Would like to know, what impact will come on JATS if Gujjar get reservations?

Thanks
Sanjeev

Gujjars are already in OBC. They are demanding ST status. Jats dnt mind it provided they are declared as OBC everywhere.

Otherwise, as Gujjars and Meenas are on roads today, similar will be Jats and Gujjars in Haryana, Punjab, UP, Delhi, MP, Uttranchal, Himanchal, J&K etc.
Gujjars should get reservation as ST only when Jat gets OBC everywhere.

[crsnadar]

Where are we going?

Forward or Backward

[rameshlakra]

Tewatia ji,

What about spearheading a "Jat Stir". This will be a good technique to eventually stopping all sorts of reservation.
U must have been in touch with jat leaders and Jat mahasabha.
It would be perfect time to strike the very core of reservation itself by asking for reservation for "poor" jats.

Regards