fall of the Jat Power !!

[samranwa]

Hi all,

I have just got a book, Rise of Jat power by R.P. Singh. have read the introduction, which states "Shri krishna was born in a jat family" and "600 BC till 200 AD" Jats did exist" and that " the population of jats was 5 times in 4th BC than that in 1921"

I just wonder why then only 1669 and further as the times of Jat uprising.

What about the fall of Jat Empire?? never happened to read a text over this. Will feel good if I am helped with this!

Regards,

Sam.

[kasutajatram]

read Herodotus, the father of history. Its Jat history only which made him father of history.

[ranjitjat]

Dear Samikasha
Nice to know your interest in Jats History.

R.P Singh mean RAJPAL SINGH.
it will be better to read all the book and write a review.
There are many other jat historian and History books to read.
This is life long process interesting but boring some time.
see Link below
cheers

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jat_clan_system

[kasutajatram]

by the way jat never falls.

[kasutajatram]

westernmost branch in the Danubian region: Jász, Jat, Jut. During the British rule over India, colonizers and scholars noticed to their astonishment that many Jat people had apparently English family names or very similar. Certainly the proud Jats would have never adopted British surnames for their own ancestral clans, and they did not result from intermarriage either. Other foreign powers ruled over the Indus Valley before and for longer periods than England, yet no Jat clan names corresponding to the previous rulers have been found. Besides this, no other Indian people had such names except Jats. This peculiarity led scholars to research about these Jat-British homonyms: those names in England may be traced back to a Jut origin, mainly Kentish; among the Jats, they exist since the distant past. This appears to be more than a coincidence; Jats and Juts are the same people. This assertion finds confirmation in historic records, for example, the Roman writer Ammianus Marcellinus, who called all Sarmatian peoples "Alani", wrote: "Alani once were known as the Massagetae. The Alani mount to the eastward, divided into populous and extensive nations; these reach as far as Asia and, as I have heard, stretch all the way to the river Ganges, which flows through the territories of India". British scholars and also officers compared the Jats' warrior character with that of the Kentish men as well as their traditional laws, for instance, the double heritage part for the youngest son, still practised among Indian Jats. An accurate research about this people which takes account of all the relevant characteristics of their ethnicity reveals that they are among the purest Sarmatic tribes existing today. See map of the Indus valley peoples (http://www.imninalu.net/Eurasia_maps.htm#Sakastan).

[vinodks]

this quote about Krishna comes from Al Biruni's book on India written around 1000AD (2000 years after Krishna's time)... al biruni's book is valuable source on India's history and full text is available in DLI website... this particular quote occurs casually in one sentence and shouldn't be taken literally... as far as I remember this sentence is the only place where Jat word is mentioned in the book... he wrote what he saw and heard, and he must been informed by someone that Krishna was so he wrote it... this sentence is quoted in almost all jat history book and no one has questioned it...
On other hand, such a quote could be seen as metaphor for origin of Jats from Yadava's for which there are ample proofs and you still don't need to take the quote literally... Relations of Jats and Yadavas was first suggested by Desraj and Qanungo and a chapter is devoted to that in Paurnia's and Juke's book(which is verbatim copy of the former, thanks Ravi ji for providing a copy)...
As per R P Singh's book it's lackluster, there is not much original content... most of it just about Bharatpur... the most original work on Bharatpur was done by Wendel in his memoirs which became backbone reference for all future books... instead of R P Singh begin with Qanungo or better still Wendel...
As per population of Jats in ancient times God only knows...

-vinod


Hi all,

I have just got a book, Rise of Jat power by R.P. Singh. have read the introduction, which states "Shri krishna was born in a jat family" and "600 BC till 200 AD" Jats did exist" and that " the population of jats was 5 times in 4th BC than that in 1921"

I just wonder why then only 1669 and further as the times of Jat uprising.

What about the fall of Jat Empire?? never happened to read a text over this. Will feel good if I am helped with this!

Regards,

Sam.

[kasutajatram]

but I got it from this

www.imninalu.net/Eurasians.htm (http://www.imninalu.net/Eurasians.htm)

[teotiakuldeep]

some1 told me that ,nagon(nagvansh) ne krishnavansh ko khatm kar diya tha

[cooljat]

Dudi Uncleji,
Pranam!!

That was so informative stuff I found there on the wiki link u mentioned!!
Im realy greatful to u for that.....it was indeed enlighting educatin reading about Clan/Gotra system!!

Im kinda confused as it shows Takhars as Nagavanshi Jat clans,
I couldnt understand much about Vansa theory n in particular Nagavanshi,
historians kindly describe this in simple language!!

Is this really useful Wiki-link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jat_clan_system added in Jat-wiki or not?? I guess its not there....Burdak uncle or DND uncle would u plz do it :)

thanx in advance!!


Rock on
Jit

Dear Samikasha
Nice to know your interest in Jats History.

R.P Singh mean RAJPAL SINGH.
it will be better to read all the book and write a review.
There are many other jat historian and History books to read.
This is life long process interesting but boring some time.
see Link below
cheers

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jat_clan_system

[ravichaudhary]

Rajpal Singh book is basically his P.hd thesis.

When he wrote it, his purpose was to get a P.hd, which is done under a ‘guide’.

The subject matter is then basically the house of Bharatpur, with some other brief comments thrown in.

The references are to existing literature, mainly Urdu sources.

He is very hesitant, and that is not unexpected either, regrading the Jat sources.

There is not, and one should expect it either, any great amount of new information being brought out.


If he had taken a much more in-depth, and Jat oriented approach, it may have interfered in his getting a P.hd.

His work is then not about the history of the Jat since time immemorial.



If you are looking to get an insight into that, then please start with two books-

RS Joon _ History of the Jats

And Thakur Desraj Jat Ithihas -


both online in the Yahoo Jat History group in the file section

You can also read, Jat Ithihas by Dr Nathan Singh.

Those three will give a good all round insight into the subject.

Once one has been through these book, then Rajpal Singh’s book is helpful, for it will supplement our knowledge for an in depth account in English of Surajmal’s times.


Good Luck

Ravi Chaudhary

[lrburdak]

Samiksha's question remains unanswered. When was the fall of Jat Empire ?

First fall - First fall was the fall of Manda Empire in Iran. It was a result of these wars that the first migration of the Jats took place and from the Manda Empire and from other parts of Central Asia they came to India. That is why Panini mentioned many cities of theirs in the heart of Punjab in the fifth century B.C.


Second fall - With the death of Harshavardhana in 647 AD.


Third fall - With the defeat of Prithvi Raj Chauhan in 1192 AD.


Rise started again - With Gokula in 1669

[prashantacmet]

Samiksha's question remains unanswered. When was the fall of Jat Empire ?

First fall - First fall was the fall of Manda Empire in Iran. It was a result of these wars that the first migration of the Jats took place and from the Manda Empire and from other parts of Central Asia they came to India. That is why Panini mentioned many cities of theirs in the heart of Punjab in the fifth century B.C.


Second fall - With the death of Harshavardhana in 647 AD.


Third fall - With the defeat of Prithvi Raj Chauhan in 1192 AD.


Rise started again - With Gokula in 1669

burdak ji........abt second and third i m not sure...but i am not really convinced abt the third one............... who has considered prithvi raj chauhan as jat

[devdahiya]

When was the golden period of Jat history....can any one throw some light please.

[lrburdak]

The Gupta Empire (320 - 540 AD) was one of the largest political and military empires in ancient India. It was ruled by the Gupta dynasty from around 240 to 550 CE and covered most of northern India and what is now eastern Pakistan and Bangladesh. During this period it was considered a Great power. The period of this Jat Empire is considered to be the Golden period in the History of India.

See more on Jatland Wiki at URL

http://www.jatland.com/home/Gupta_Empire

Regards,

[ravichaudhary]

The Gupta Empire (320 - 540 AD) was one of the largest political and military empires in ancient India. It was ruled by the Gupta dynasty from around 240 to 550 CE and covered most of northern India and what is now eastern Pakistan and Bangladesh. During this period it was considered a Great power. The period of this Jat Empire is considered to be the Golden period in the History of India.

See more on Jatland Wiki at URL

http://www.jatland.com/home/Gupta_Empire

Regards,

Why not, use to correct terminolgy, call it the Dharan (Gupt) empire.

On our web sites that is what should call it.


Simply because the wrong terminology was used in history books does not mean we should continue the wrong terminology.

As a matter of fact, if the colonial historians had known that it was the Dharan Dynasty , they would have called it that.

Our goal is to get the right terminology to be used, and to bring out that they were Jats, in all Indian History textbooks.


Ravi Chaudhary

[vairesatendra]

But still a lot of confusion is going on over the Dharan (gupt) to be considered as Jats.:(

However, I have seen the comments mentioned by Mr. Burdak Ji, Ravi Chaudhary Ji and other at the wiki, where Jat History items are being deleted...:confused::confused:

If really we have the proof, why such ambiguity in the minds of other Historians...:mad:

[psgahlaut]

some1 told me that ,nagon(nagvansh) ne krishnavansh ko khatm kar diya tha

its not true. the story goes like this that maharaja parikshit ultimately decided to end the nag vansh out of anger. there then ensued a understanding type that nagas are also jats and your brothers only.

lived there a mahrishi like kagbhushundi (kakran jat) of meerut. who pacified these two jats, not to querrel, therefrom comes the story of mahabharat.

he told them that your ancestors (kaurav/pandav) querralled so n so till end n this was the result..

[psgahlaut]

But still a lot of confusion is going on over the Dharan (gupt) to be considered as Jats.:(

However, I have seen the comments mentioned by Mr. Burdak Ji, Ravi Chaudhary Ji and other at the wiki, where Jat History items are being deleted...:confused::confused:

If really we have the proof, why such ambiguity in the minds of other Historians...:mad:

whether posts are being deleted or accepted, please see their concern. please show your concern like them, just try....

[ravichaudhary]

But still a lot of confusion is going on over the Dharan (gupt) to be considered as Jats.:(

However, I have seen the comments mentioned by Mr. Burdak Ji, Ravi Chaudhary Ji and other at the wiki, where Jat History items are being deleted...:confused::confused:

If really we have the proof, why such ambiguity in the minds of other Historians...:mad:

Simply having proof is not enough.

There is also the matter of what is ‘established’ doctrine, and that then has to be overcome. There are also vested interests whose careers are based on the existing paradigm.


Make change happen is not a simple matter, it is an uphill task.

The analogy for example, could be.

Mr. x has discovered a new technology, a new engine that will run on air, which will save billions of Dollars in the cost of running motor vehicles - oil, tires, cheaper cars etc.

However the new product will displace the old existing manufacturers. – who depend on oil; whose self interest would be being served by shutting down the competition and continuing to make money.

The new company is forced out of business.

Similarly the existing version of History shows that the Gupta were not jats. The origins arte described as ‘obscure’.

If they had been described as Jats, and so was Harshvardhan, and also the first Mauryas, then in today’s history classes, it would not be unreasonable to ask what happened to them and their descendants?

Questions would also be raise das to rise of the Islamic power and the concomitant Rajput power; one could not have existed without the other.

That would create quite a dysfunction.

Hence despite the proof being there, we have to contend with vested interests, who will not give up their position easily.

That is why, the work of the Jat historians is most important and also important is the work of the young Jat men and women, who are needed to continue the battle to re- acquire our heritage.

We need help. The more volunteers the better.

Join us, do not be lukewarm

Ravi Chaudhary

[ravichaudhary]

However, I have seen the comments mentioned by Mr. Burdak Ji, Ravi Chaudhary Ji and other at the wiki, where Jat History items are being deleted...:confused::confused:

If really we have the proof, why such ambiguity in the minds of other Historians...:mad:



We are not dealing with historians, but with amateurs.

These amateurs wish to push their narrow view of history.

The view is usually based on their limited knowledge acquired by limited reading,of versions written by English speaking colonial writers .

Since wiki can be edited by anyone, these people delete material at will and this is difficult to check or stop.

Lack of knowledge of the subject is not a deterrent for these people.

To stop them, a continous effort is required.

The only way to stop this is for more of us to get involved.

Best regards


Ravi Chaudhary

[psgahlaut]

We are not dealing with historians, but with amateurs.

These amateurs wish to push their narrow view of history.

The view is usually based on their limited knowledge acquired by limited reading,of versions written by English speaking colonial writers .

Since wiki can be edited by anyone, these people delete material at will and this is difficult to check or stop.

Lack of knowledge of the subject is not a deterrent for these people.

To stop them, a continous effort is required.

The only way to stop this is for more of us to get involved.

Best regards


Ravi Chaudhary

Sir ji

hats off to your efforts.


regards

[nijjhar]

Hi all,

I have just got a book, Rise of Jat power by R.P. Singh. have read the introduction, which states "Shri krishna was born in a jat family" and "600 BC till 200 AD" Jats did exist" and that " the population of jats was 5 times in 4th BC than that in 1921"

I just wonder why then only 1669 and further as the times of Jat uprising.

What about the fall of Jat Empire?? never happened to read a text over this. Will feel good if I am helped with this!

Regards,

Sam.

Yes. We are basically Yadav and Jatt is one of the major tribes of Yadav Bans. Yes. We Jatt belong to the family of Shri Krishan Baldev Ji, an incarnation of "Shiv" and not of the Vishnu. We are Shiv Sena and we supported Sachae Patshah Har Gobind Ji, the most.

But we cannot be strong in Kalyug as the Crown of Kalyug belongs to the most dishonest tribe of Khatri. Khatris used to be Devta in Traeta Yug but in Kalyug, the opposite. Now, we have Lala Manmohan Singh Kohli as the Prime Minister ready to end this Kalyug.

Our Jatt king Ranjit Singh Sandhu had a rule of 40 years in the name of 40 Muktae who longed for material things. We are the most stupid but honest tribe of all the tribes.

[gsb]

Dear Samiksha, I am glad you are reading Jat history. I have not read RP singh book so can not comment. However there are many books on the subject, I have some of them. I hope more young girls like you and boys will read. One thing is sure our history has not been written truly by since begining, the moguls or Britishers since in those days all was written by non jats to please the rulers of that time and therefore needs young jat researchers. You may read Jat Itihaas by Dr. Nathan Singh which gives lot of insight the jat history and platform to find out more about us. All the best in your efforts. Take care. Beniwal

[psgahlaut]

All Jats/zats/castes are derived out of Jats only. Its not vice versa. Thats why original and main name is still retained by Jats. We are the largest and most forward population in the world today also in the form of Aryan or Indo-European. Wherever Indo-European name occurs Jat do occur there in historical background from Europe to India through Central Asia. For example England in back ground history is combination of Jutes and Brittons.

[psgahlaut]

history is a cruel subject where nothing succeeds like success.

Jats challenged all. They were too destructive and too constructive.

lands echoed with their activities. let it be the deset of Thar or egypt. let it be Taj or pyrimid of egypt.

there was a question in IAS long back that Asoka had the energy of Chandragupta Maurya, he was genious versatile like samudra gupta and had the catholicity of Akbar, please, elucidate.

the spices in indus valley are exported till to day from India. And the good horses/dogs were never bred in India.

the exports and imports are same and history made no impact on them.

[psgahlaut]

Jat is a race on whom time and place had no impact.

[vairesatendra]

Simply having proof is not enough.

There is also the matter of what is ‘established’ doctrine, and that then has to be overcome. There are also vested interests whose careers are based on the existing paradigm.


Make change happen is not a simple matter, it is an uphill task.

The analogy for example, could be.

Mr. x has discovered a new technology, a new engine that will run on air, which will save billions of Dollars in the cost of running motor vehicles - oil, tires, cheaper cars etc.

However the new product will displace the old existing manufacturers. – who depend on oil; whose self interest would be being served by shutting down the competition and continuing to make money.

The new company is forced out of business.

Similarly the existing version of History shows that the Gupta were not jats. The origins arte described as ‘obscure’.

If they had been described as Jats, and so was Harshvardhan, and also the first Mauryas, then in today’s history classes, it would not be unreasonable to ask what happened to them and their descendants?

Questions would also be raise das to rise of the Islamic power and the concomitant Rajput power; one could not have existed without the other.

That would create quite a dysfunction.

Hence despite the proof being there, we have to contend with vested interests, who will not give up their position easily.

That is why, the work of the Jat historians is most important and also important is the work of the young Jat men and women, who are needed to continue the battle to re- acquire our heritage.

We need help. The more volunteers the better.

Join us, do not be lukewarm

Ravi Chaudhary

Well respected Ravi Ji, I m keenly interested to know out History and this interest of mine brought me at your Yahooo group 3-4 years back, and we exchanged a few mails at that time.:) (Probably you might have forgotten)

I really acclaim your exertion and Kudos to you.

We are not dealing with historians, but with amateurs.

These amateurs wish to push their narrow view of history.

The view is usually based on their limited knowledge acquired by limited reading,of versions written by English speaking colonial writers .

Since wiki can be edited by anyone, these people delete material at will and this is difficult to check or stop.

Lack of knowledge of the subject is not a deterrent for these people.

To stop them, a continous effort is required.

The only way to stop this is for more of us to get involved.

Best regards


Ravi Chaudhary

Now Sir, as wiki can be edited very easily, so isnt there any other way so that we can put the JAT HISTORY that cant be edited (provided it should be based on facts and proves)? Though we young gun too have to be part of this campaign. As only few young Jats are aware of the JAT history.

What else constructive can we do?

[psgahlaut]

samajh koni aawe bhai Vaire

aa Jat ka kit soot baithe ga? jo apne desh aur apni majority me hi dusre ka gulam sse, aa tte mere vichar tte OBC ka pahla haqdar sse. aa sub tte badda moorkh sse duniyan ka.

[psgahlaut]

the best way to preserve Jat history is to write research papers and publish them in International Journals a journal can never be edited.

[psgahlaut]

Moreover International Journal's contents are too authentic. If any substance appears there the same can be forced to be written in Indian Text Books also if not through govt then through court. Opposite to Indian scene, there are no people, usually, in International Journals who are sitting biased against Jats. Moreover, other Jats outside India (Muslims and Christians) are ready to co-author if any such attempt is taken in this direction. As we search for our counterparts in other countries, they search for their counterparts in India.

However, idea of Raviji, Burdakji etc. to edit wikipaedia is same ukk koi tte bhala manas kiti nne aa wiki pedia ne khol ke dekhe ga aur us ki samajh aa gayee te is pe kuchh kitab/kitoob paper/paaper chhape ga:):)

[harra]

dear samiksha ,


whole thing about jats existence in ancient times is confusing . now a days historians have made a mockery of jat history by coining tales through similiar sounding names . the whole thing about british finding jat surnames as originated from europe or somewhere else is wrong. In fact britishers carried a survey in what is present day haryana and used to ask the people about their origin and so. Most of the jats in haryana told themselves to have originated from rajputs. in fact there is list which describes which jat calns originated from which rajput clans.

Moreover Col. Todd in his book , Annals and Antiquite of Rajasthan has told jats to originated from jits, a clan of rajputs inhabiting the region from eastern bank of sutlej to western bank of yamuna .

the whole thing about jats existence in Krisna's time is doubtful . it was only after separation from rajputs that jats came to be known as distinct entity and some of these started gaining independence and founded their own kingdom. and hence give an impresssion that jats rose again.

[vijay]

And bhai here you are to rewrite the history again ... right ?

dear samiksha ,
whole thing about jats existence in ancient times is confusing . now a days historians have made a mockery of jat history by coining tales through similiar sounding names . the whole thing about british finding jat surnames as originated from europe or somewhere else is wrong.

I don't see anything confusing .... but british made it confusing and later so called secular communists.


In fact britishers carried a survey in what is present day haryana and used to ask the people about their origin and so. Most of the jats in haryana told themselves to have originated from rajputs. in fact there is list which describes which jat calns originated from which rajput clans.

Yup, British did their best to confuse us regrading our History.
For your kind info Jat even in Nowdays are well spread in Punjab, Himachal, Rajasthan, UP MP, Gujrat ... but not only in Haryana.
And their so called survey told us that jats originated from Rajputs ? I want to see the report about that so called survey ( and if you know about that survey ... write down the outcome of that survey ) and i am more interested in the so called list which you are mentioning here.

On serious note, do you really know when this term 'Rajput' came into existance ? Forget about telling different clans ........


Moreover Col. Todd in his book , Annals and Antiquite of Rajasthan has told jats to originated from jits, a clan of rajputs inhabiting the region from eastern bank of sutlej to western bank of yamuna .

the whole thing about jats existence in Krisna's time is doubtful . it was only after separation from rajputs that jats came to be known as distinct entity and some of these started gaining independence and founded their own kingdom. and hence give an impresssion that jats rose again.


Gaining independence..... from whom ?
Can you tell us about any Rajput King .... of ancient times .... if there was any ................. and here you find so many Jat Kings since thousands of years.

Who separated from whom ...... Real history is exactly opposite what you want to force upon. Jats were the first here and rajputs separated from them gradually.

[snandal1]

The Gupta Empire (320 - 540 AD) was one of the largest political and military empires in ancient India. It was ruled by the Gupta dynasty from around 240 to 550 CE and covered most of northern India and what is now eastern Pakistan and Bangladesh. During this period it was considered a Great power. The period of this Jat Empire is considered to be the Golden period in the History of India.

See more on Jatland Wiki at URL

http://www.jatland.com/home/Gupta_Empire

Regards,

gupta empire made india rich in gold not because india had enough gold in its mines. even silver mines are not enough in india. even copper mines at khetli (rajasthan) wherefrom copper was acquired in pre-iron culture i.e. rigvedic and indus was not good enough for aryans/jats to describe it as bronze age culture.

Jat acquired gold through sea trade. hence, vasudev is made captive by kamsa, hence Jaydratha kills abhimanyu, hence Jats are described in Sindh, hence Somnath is looted by Ghazni....

[snandal1]

and hence that vakataka kalkal jat whom this 2nd vikram betal married his daughter to. because he wanted that bhauruch, gujrat port.

in all history/inscriptions its mentioned that some guild family shifted from ....:)

[snandal1]

burdakji

you must watch an english movie like "water world"

conclusion is that "Jat never jokes"

Jat re Jat tere sir pe khat

teli re teli

tere sir pe kolhu

rre batt (tukbandi) koni bani...

rre koni banyo ...

per bojhal tte mare gya...

[raka]

Hi all,

I have just got a book, Rise of Jat power by R.P. Singh. have read the introduction, which states "Shri krishna was born in a jat family" and "600 BC till 200 AD" Jats did exist" and that " the population of jats was 5 times in 4th BC than that in 1921"

I just wonder why then only 1669 and further as the times of Jat uprising.

What about the fall of Jat Empire?? never happened to read a text over this. Will feel good if I am helped with this!

Regards,

Sam.

Jat Empire kabhi khatam nahi huai balki alag alag dhramo me batt ghae , jiska phayaida in panditto ne uthaia, inhone kabhi hamara ithihaas nahi likha sirf rajputo ke ghun ghaye, kyoki jat bhramanwad me vishwas nahi rakhta tha. inhone Maharaja Ranjit Singh ko sikh likh diya hum bi inki ha me ha mila rahe hai . ha wo to sardar hai ye nahi jante ki hai to ek khun. kissi historian ne khaha hai "kissi jatti ko khatam karna hai to uske ittihaas ko khatam kar do wo apne aap khatam ho jaenge" yahi humare sath ho raha hai hum samaj nahi rahe jat sikh ko bol dete hai ye to sardar hai.bishnoi jat ko yo to bishnoi se.