Benazir Bhutto

[crsnadar]

RAWALPINDI, Pakistan -- The assassination of Benazir Bhutto, the opposition leader who had promised to restore democracy in Pakistan, set off a nationwide wave of grief and raised the specter of violent unrest that could threaten the government of U.S.
An all time political struggling life of a name Born on 21June 1953 ended on 27Dec 2007.

Is this an end of "Bhutto Era"...or...

Attached herewith is her last moment photograph...

[ssindhu]

i remember two of her most interesting wits with karan thapar...

karan thapar was the VP of cambridge n she the VP of oxford...there was an interuniversity debate on premarital sex and benazir was lenient on it...while she was winning it all the way, karan rang the bell (he was the moderator, PS: i would love to have such moderators. lol) and asked if she would like to practise what she preaches and the audi burst into a laughter...

benazir tilted her glasses, looked into his eyes and said: yes, but not with you... and had the bigger laugh


when rajiv visited her in islamabad, after a dinner when media people were waiting for her statement to come she retorted a rajiv-benazir marriage would be a solution to sub-continent's problems...(rajiv and benazir had been parelled keeping in view their political legacies and aspirations by media and political figures)

[VirenderNarwal]

(he was the moderator, PS: i would love to have such moderators. lol)
Jitna Benzir ke jane ka atti dukhad anubhav hua utna hi hame Seema ji ke aane ka sukhad anubhav hua.

[skarmveer]

Benazir Bhutto ka to pata tha kee musharaf usey marvaker hee dam lega.

Per aapkee Jatland per wapsee kee bahut khusi hui or pata nahi tha kee yea modrator aapko kab bahaal karengey.

i remember two of her most interesting wits with karan thapar...

karan thapar was the VP of cambridge n she the VP of oxford...there was an interuniversity debate on premarital sex and benazir was lenient on it...while she was winning it all the way, karan rang the bell (he was the moderator, PS: i would love to have such moderators. lol) and asked if she would like to practise what she preaches and the audi burst into a laughter...

benazir tilted her glasses, looked into his eyes and said: yes, but not with you... and had the bigger laugh


when rajiv visited her in islamabad, after a dinner when media people were waiting for her statement to come she retorted a rajiv-benazir marriage would be a solution to sub-continent's problems...(rajiv and benazir had been parelled keeping in view their political legacies and aspirations by media and political figures)

[mukeshkumar007]

She was being accused of working as a R&AW agent when she primeminister in 1988. She was accused that she had shared lot of intelligence reports with Rajiv Gandhi many times as both of were good friend. She was dismissed in 1990 BY Ishaq Khan on the basis of these allegations against her. How far was it true?

[raj2rif]

Dear Members,

I really don't know as to when will we mature as a community. It is a pretty, important event which is very sad and will have a lot of repercussions not only in Pakistani Politics but elsewhere as well.

Read the first two post, which started the discussion and read the next two, where they take you. There is a humor column where we can do what ever leg pulling we want to do.

The events of next few weeks would be interested to watch. An unstable Pakistan is in no one's interest. True, they are reaping what they sowed, but that does not help the world community.

Terrorism is mushrooming in NWFP of Pakistan and may be in major part of Baluchistan. Coupled with this is the situation in Afghanistan and off course we have a regime in Tehran, who has to settle score with the West. All this makes the situation more dangerous, than what it looks on the face value of an assassination of political leader in Pakistan.

The biggest question is who did it. Some people in US who probably have only one thing on their mind are blaming Al-Quida for it. No one is even thinking that ISI could also be a player in the event. What about PML (Sharief) And off course there are those religious parties who are ruling two of Pakistan’s four provinces.

Remember that Pakistan is a nuclear state and they do have quite a few nuclear weapons. Access to these nuclear weapons by fundamentalists or Al-Quida cadre is going to be extremely dangerous for the world community. Whether we like or dislike any political leader in Pakistan, it is time to think and be prepared for the effect of a Pakistani Government for us. It is in our own interests that we do have a stable Pakistan that is more geared towards the economic development than any thing else.

I think the discussion demands much more than a welcome statement for Ms. Seema Singh

[mukeshkumar007]

[It is in our own interests that we do have a stable Pakistan that is more geared towards the economic development than any thing else.[/SIZE][/FONT]



[/COLOR][/B]

Exactly. Although Mushraf is responsible for the present deteriorating situation in Pakistan but this is also true that he is the only one person in Pakistan who can settle the things on right track. India along with other international power should back musharaf in this direction as a future course of action. All countries should work together with Mushraf to settle down the situation before the nuclear button goes into wrong hands.

[coolengineer]

Exactly. Although Mushraf is responsible for the present deteriorating situation in Pakistan but this is also true that he is the only one person in Pakistan who can settle the things on right track. India along with other international power should back musharaf in this direction as a future course of action. All countries should work together with Mushraf to settle down the situation before the nuclear button goes into wrong hands.

What i beleive is that any form of elected govt is much better then the autocratic military rule of mushraff.I think the Election were scheduled for next months in pakistan..God knows when a democratic govt will be formed in pakistan.
Pakistan has realy plunged into one of its gravest crisis ever.Terrorisom and JEHAD are realy at their Peak now.

[rkumar]

Dear Members,

....... It is in our own interests that we do have a stable Pakistan that is more geared towards the economic development than any thing else.

I think the discussion demands much more than a welcome statement for Ms. Seema Singh



A stable Pakistan or for that matter a stable Englistan can not be anything more than wishful thinking in which we as a nation hardly have any role. Till we have a stable and strong India, it hardly matters how these countries are. Let us be clear that its highly unlikely that an Islamic country can ever be stable unless its ruled by a ruthless dictator and which in return can never be good for a non muslim India. So either way we will have problem. Only way to handle it is that we remain very strong and focused. We have unstable Nepal, unstable Sri Lanka, unstable Bangladesh, unstable Burma...name anyone and we have them all. In a way India is an Oasis in desert. I am 100% sure, we will keep growing strong, come what may. I suppose we Indians respond to crisis fairly well.

RK^2

[mukeshkumar007]

A stable Pakistan or for that matter a stable Englistan can not be anything more than wishful thinking in which we as a nation hardly have any role. Till we have a stable and strong India, it hardly matters how these countries are. Let us be clear that its highly unlikely that an Islamic country can ever be stable unless its ruled by a ruthless dictator and which in return can never be good for a non muslim India. So either way we will have problem. Only way to handle it is that we remain very strong and focused. We have unstable Nepal, unstable Sri Lanka, unstable Bangladesh, unstable Burma...name anyone and we have them all. In a way India is an Oasis in desert. I am 100% sure, we will keep growing strong, come what may. I suppose we Indians respond to crisis fairly well.

RK^2


Very true, but will have to remember that unlike Bangladesh and Nepal, Pakistan is a nuclear power country and any instability in this country, increases the chances of capturing the nuclear arsenal by fundamentalists. And if it happens one can imagine what threat they can pose to India and other countries.

[rkumar]

........ Pakistan is a nuclear power country and any instability in this country, increases the chances of capturing the nuclear arsenal by fundamentalists. And if it happens one can imagine what threat they can pose to India and other countries.

High time as a nation we get prepared for the worst. Terrorism is like cancer and if first treatment is not good, it just spreads all over. Americans have missed the bus. Same applies to India. If Jihadis take control of Nuclear bombs, India, USA and Russia all will have to strike hard in one go, else they are all doomed. Indians should be ready to get bombed and die in large numbers, but must have will to strike back with full force in one go so that Jihadis are wiped out once for all. Each and every atom bomb in our stock will have to be dropped over Jihadis. Its no use entering into dialogues with Jihadis as they won't agree to anything shorter than full islamisation of India and rest of the world.

RK^2

[VirenderNarwal]

Jitna Benzir ke jane ka atti dukhad anubhav hua utna hi hame Seema ji ke aane ka sukhad anubhav hua.


Read the first two post, which started the discussion and read the next two, where they take you. There is a humor column where we can do what ever leg pulling we want to do.


I think the discussion demands much more than a welcome statement for Ms. Seema Singh

आदरणीय श्री वीरेन्द्र जी.......मैं अपनी भावनायें सपष्ट कर रहा हूँ...मैने मेरी भावनायें आहत की जगह आहत और सुखद की जगह सुखद प्रकट की हैं.....(क्युंके दोनो बातें साथ-साथ हुई थी)
मैने बेनजीर की हत्या पर सपष्ट शब्दों मे दुख व्यक्त किया है और साथ मे एक जाट्लैंड का पुरानी सद्स्या....जो किन्ही विशेष कारणों से जाटलैंड पर आना बन्द कर चुकी थी...और अपने बहुमूल्य विचार प्रकट करना भी बन्द कर चुकी थी...उनकी जाटलैंड पर दुबारा वापसी या उपस्तिथी .....देख कर उनका स्वागत किया .....लेकिन दोनों ही बातों मे मैने ना तो कोई Leg Pulling की है ओर ना ही कहीं ह्यूमर का प्रयोग किया है।

Regards
.
.

[shailendra]

...If you live by the sword, you die by the sword!

A death of a known leader of a country (or any death for that matter) is no laughable matter, or should be diluted with wise cracks; but the bottom line is that Benazir had her own moment of glory (or infamy) when she was in power herself!... If we restrict ourselves to discuss just her contributions (that directly-indirectly can be linked to her ultimate death too) here then one would surely agree that she herself was one helluva corrupt politician (and along with her Husband Zardari) did what they (like most sub-continent leaders- including Indian politicians) do!!! Milk the system as best as they can for their own coffers...

...and frankly to get starry eyed by reading about 'promises' from world leaders (what happens in Pakistan has repercussions everywhere) like her would be foolish to say the least.

Her death has been a shocking incident no doubt (considering the fact that the era we are in and news with the words like 'assassination' makes you feel that this still must be the dark ages where forget the normal gentry even the leaders are not safe!) the fact of the matter still is that she too had a big slice of the pie in her own good ol' days and after being out of power (okay so her's was not a military coup) into self imposed exile (my foot; she knew she would probably be imprisoned and worse still- executed for the charges, real or unreal if she stuck around too long) and as the now familiar story goes- before it was the spineless dude Nawaz Sharif baying for her blood and now of course she was quite a political opposition threat to the 'Stalin' Musharraf himself.
The way things were (and still are) in Pakistan, post 9/11 and with all the renewed US interference she knew it was the opportune moment to make a come back and take her place in the sun again!
(Sadly that never materialized in the way she had planned)

...and so keeping that in mind one can only say- us desh ka (and all the corrupt players there juggling the dice) to waise bhi kuchh nahee ho sakta.
One can get really excited with all the activity and excitement of seeing all kinds of useless leaders of the bygone era jumping into the bandwagon and making all sorts of comebacks, imposed, self-imposed, or voluntary only to be pushed around, thrown out, only to come back again; but the ground zero fact that still remains is-

This sort of thing will continue to go on and any romantic talks (and promises) of restoring Democracy in that god forsaken country is nothing but a joke!...

[raj2rif]

A stable Pakistan or for that matter a stable Englistan can not be anything more than wishful thinking in which we as a nation hardly have any role. Till we have a stable and strong India, it hardly matters how these countries are. Let us be clear that its highly unlikely that an Islamic country can ever be stable unless its ruled by a ruthless dictator and which in return can never be good for a non muslim India. So either way we will have problem. Only way to handle it is that we remain very strong and focused. We have unstable Nepal, unstable Sri Lanka, unstable Bangladesh, unstable Burma...name anyone and we have them all. In a way India is an Oasis in desert. I am 100% sure, we will keep growing strong, come what may. I suppose we Indians respond to crisis fairly well.

RK^2

Dear R K Ji,

Comparing Pakistan with Nepal, Bhutan, Sri Lanka, Burma and Bangladesh would be nothing but gross error of judgment if not foolhardiness. None of these countries except Burma have the land mass that Pakistan has, and none of these countries have as powerful military as Pakistan has. So comparing these countries with Pakistan is like comparing Apples with Oranges.

Secondly geographical situation of Pakistan itself merit much more attention. Nepal and Bhutan are land locked countries. One Naval blockade of Bangladesh makes it land locked too. Sri Lanka does not have the space to trade for time in the event of full-scale war apart from having a porous border because of sea around it.

Further, the demography of the Pakistan and rich Islamic world that supports it makes it more important than any other country in our neighborhood.

A stable and strong India off course is essential for it is much bigger than Pakistan both geographically and economically. Stability in your neighborhood always helps. Think about when you want to buy a home to live, one of the factor and probably most important one you consider is peace in the neighborhood. I think that should drive the point home.

[rohittewatia]

She was a able and powerful leader. Unfortunately, the common people would never come to know the real facts.

/Rohit.

[ravichaudhary]

Democracy , simplistically is rule of the majority.

Democracy can only function is a society that goes beyond divisions based on identity, where loyalty to an identity will outweigh other considerations. It can only function in a homogenous society, where the values are same, and moreover, where the rights of individual are protected, and an individual is permitted to seek his/her potential as a human being free from the diktats of those who seek conformity to a particular group identity.

There are different kinds of group identities.

Group identities, such as we see in the USA or Western Europe or Japan, are nation based, and the population holds similar values, around family, and the rights of an individual- a live and let live society. These kinds of societies are the societies, whom we associate with term democracy, as we know it today,

When we speak of democracy in other countries, we come across different challenges. In India for example we find that an election can only be won, by an alignment of disparate groups who have little in common- e.g an alliance of communists with religious based groups, the kind that is in power today- a Congress, supported largely by Islamic voters, with Communists, who are in turn supported by and support Islamic parties, each driven solely by a desire to occupy the seat of power.

In countries like Pakistan and the rest of the Islamic world, the society is defined by the Islamic religion, which has a fascist hue, than a homogenous society held together by values that seek the emancipation and liberation of the human spirit.

These societies, are held together under a veneer of community – Islam, but governed by as an oligarchy of feudal families, while the common person is confined to a structure by the priests of its religion, who expound and enforce the values of the religion into the society, and ensure that society as a whole conforms to these tenets. Individuality is punished, and so is any attempt to leave the fold, by fear induced by violence as threat, and then by actual physical violence.

Most members of society would rather conform than risk ostracization from family and societal groups.

Education and liberalization are the enemies of these kinds of these kinds of society, and by that token so is democracy.

Democracy cannot and should not mean a simply rule of the majority. This kind of democracy, be it in Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, or any other nation dominated by Islam, simply means rule by a religio- fascist group, whose aim was and is to rule and exploit the rest of the society, who are doomed to live out their lives in subservience, in ignorance, without education, and in poverty.

Today a country like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait or Pakistan is dominated by a religio- fascist society, Islamic, where a simple election by a majority of votes, means the election of those , who will trample of the rights and the harassment of those who do not conform to the majority’s views. The rest of the minorities, e.g. the remaining, Hindus or Buddhists are exploited and have no rights, their daughters kidnapped, and they are forced to convert to Islam. Every ancient religion, Zoroastrianism, Buddhism, Jainism, Sikhism, has been exterminated. or is on the verge of extermination. Steps like the destruction of the Bamiyan Buddhas or the denial of cremation facilities to the Hindus , Sikhs etc only confirm the overall objective of this neo religio- fascist. Society and their progress to their goal.

It is no accident that even as recently as fifty years ago west Pakistan had a 25% population of Hindus, Sikhs, who are reduced now to an insignificant minority, an underclass living in daily fear.

What democracy can exist then in such a society?

The current situation in Pakistan has to be analyzed in that light.

The choices were between Sharif, and Bhutto and the Islamic parties or the continued rule by the army under Musharraf.

Both Sharif and Bhutto were feudalists, whose wealth and power was inherited from their immense rural holdings and the large number of villages and villagers they had under their heels. Nothing had really changed in the last 60 years. If anything they and the families like them only consolidated their power and access to funds through corruption. Not for nothing were the Bhutto’s were known as Mr. and Mrs. 10 %, because they took a 10 % cut as a bribe of every government contract that was issued.

The armed forces were not to be left behind, and their military-industrial complex were integrated into every industry from agriculture to manufacturing, to drugs. The last was the most lucrative, and to it they provided safe passage, by army convoy to the Islamabad and Karachi, and by Air force transport to the Western destinations. On occasion they would be caught as in the case of the, rapidly hushed up, arrest of a Pakistani Air Force Major in New York for carrying a consignment of drugs.

At the center of this nexus was the US bureaucracy the CIA , and the State Department , to whom all this was part of State policy- and proving safe passage to drug runners ahs always been one of them,- viz Air America of the Vietnam days. This has always been in conflict with the goals of the DEA, whose task was to stop drug smuggling. The CIA would win in cases of, “ National Interest “, as in the case of Pakistan, and turn a blind eye to their drug smuggling.

We are told Bhutto was savior of democracy, was the Western world’s last hope and now the region and the West’s hopes are now plunged into darkness and despair.

The reality is harsher- Bhutto had done nothing to repeal the Sharia laws brought in by her predecessor general Zia ul Haq, nor for that matter was anything done by Sharif. The target was simply Hindus, other minorities, and Hindustan, and India was targeted for terror termed as ‘low intensity warfare’ – what a lovely sanitized term. Under that cover every generation of Pakistani leader, sought to exploit their people and retain their comforts..

The problem now is that the very dogs they raised to attack democracies like India, have morphed into hyenas, out of control.

The problem now is that while they may make noises of secularity and democracy, in reality they are all devout Islamicists and will, when the crunch comes , as it has come, support their neo-religious cause, and seek to bring the rest of the world under the shadow of their version of Islam, rather than create a society that espouses :liberty equality and fraternity.



Ravi Chaudhary

[ashwal]

Dear R K Ji,

Comparing Pakistan with Nepal, Bhutan, Sri Lanka, Burma and Bangladesh would be nothing but gross error of judgment if not foolhardiness. None of these countries except Burma have the land mass that Pakistan has, and none of these countries have as powerful military as Pakistan has. So comparing these countries with Pakistan is like comparing Apples with Oranges.

Secondly geographical situation of Pakistan itself merit much more attention. Nepal and Bhutan are land locked countries. One Naval blockade of Bangladesh makes it land locked too. Sri Lanka does not have the space to trade for time in the event of full-scale war apart from having a porous border because of sea around it.

Further, the demography of the Pakistan and rich Islamic world that supports it makes it more important than any other country in our neighborhood.

A stable and strong India off course is essential for it is much bigger than Pakistan both geographically and economically. Stability in your neighborhood always helps. Think about when you want to buy a home to live, one of the factor and probably most important one you consider is peace in the neighborhood. I think that should drive the point home.

I fully agree with Virendra Ji . Pakistan is quiet different from rest of our neighbors. Here is some analysis of some Terror expert Steve Schippert, co-founder of the Center for Threat Awareness and managing editor for ThreatsWatch.org

"The loss of Bhutto is not only a loss for Pakistanis, but also for the rest of the world hoping Pakistan can stabilize and modernize and lose itself one day of the threat of an al-Qaeda which strengthens and grows on its fertile grounds.

Her assassination comes at particularly high cost for Afghanistan and Hamid Karzai, who was in Pakistan attempting to build upon the strained, angry relations between the two countries. For every measure of instability within Pakistan, there is an equal measure of violent attacks into Afghanistan from within the Taliban-al-Qaeda Pakistani lairs. Recall that Musharraf's ceding of the Waziristan Agencies in the Federally Administered Tribal Areas was based on a written agreement that cross-border attacks into Afghanistan would be halted. They rose 300% overnight. An even weaker Pakistan ripped and distracted by internal unrest beyond the tribal areas spells trouble measured in blood for Afghanistan.

Equally concerned is India. Should al-Qaeda gain control of Pakistani nuclear weapons, the first target will not likely be New York, Tel Aviv or Baghdad, but rather New Dehli. If al-Qaeda can successfully decapitate the whole of India's political class, an insurgency by Indian Muslims could be successfully and swiftly launched, breaking India up into pieces while simultaneously and successfully resolving the Kashmir conflict - which is still teeming with al-Qaeda-aligned terrorist groups. Any Indian retaliatory strike can be plausibly acceptable considering the gains and the dutiful expansion of a new caliphate."

[ssindhu]

...If you live by the sword, you die by the sword!

A death of a known leader of a country (or any death for that matter) is no laughable matter, or should be diluted with wise cracks; but the bottom line is that Benazir had her own moment of glory (or infamy) when she was in power herself!... If we restrict ourselves to discuss just her contributions (that directly-indirectly can be linked to her ultimate death too) here then one would surely agree that she herself was one helluva corrupt politician (and along with her Husband Zardari) did what they (like most sub-continent leaders- including Indian politicians) do!!! Milk the system as best as they can for their own coffers...

...and frankly to get starry eyed by reading about 'promises' from world leaders (what happens in Pakistan has repercussions everywhere) like her would be foolish to say the least.

Her death has been a shocking incident no doubt (considering the fact that the era we are in and news with the words like 'assassination' makes you feel that this still must be the dark ages where forget the normal gentry even the leaders are not safe!) the fact of the matter still is that she too had a big slice of the pie in her own good ol' days and after being out of power (okay so her's was not a military coup) into self imposed exile (my foot; she knew she would probably be imprisoned and worse still- executed for the charges, real or unreal if she stuck around too long) and as the now familiar story goes- before it was the spineless dude Nawaz Sharif baying for her blood and now of course she was quite a political opposition threat to the 'Stalin' Musharraf himself.
The way things were (and still are) in Pakistan, post 9/11 and with all the renewed US interference she knew it was the opportune moment to make a come back and take her place in the sun again!
(Sadly that never materialized in the way she had planned)

...and so keeping that in mind one can only say- us desh ka (and all the corrupt players there juggling the dice) to waise bhi kuchh nahee ho sakta.
One can get really excited with all the activity and excitement of seeing all kinds of useless leaders of the bygone era jumping into the bandwagon and making all sorts of comebacks, imposed, self-imposed, or voluntary only to be pushed around, thrown out, only to come back again; but the ground zero fact that still remains is-

This sort of thing will continue to go on and any romantic talks (and promises) of restoring Democracy in that god forsaken country is nothing but a joke!...

shail the concern is not over her death, the concern is the manner of her death...i will give an upperhand to millitancy and again boost their spirit as the repercussions of WTO, tube and mumbai serial blasts...whatever the stature of a politician-- corrupt or honest...such assassins are too big a terror to be negated within the same country...as you can see what happened in other countries after WTO

[rkumar]

......
The problem now is that while they may make noises of secularity and democracy, in reality they are all devout Islamicists and will, when the crunch comes , as it has come, support their neo-religious cause, and seek to bring the rest of the world under the shadow of their version of Islam, rather than create a society that espouses :liberty equality and fraternity.



Ravi Chaudhary

Exactly. Islam has been always at war both within and outside and will continue to be so. Our hopes rest only in our strength and preparedness. We have enough history to back our concerns.

RK^2

[rkumar]

I fully agree with Virendra Ji . Pakistan is quiet different from rest of our neighbors. Here is some analysis of some Terror expert Steve Schippert, co-founder of the Center for Threat Awareness and managing editor for ThreatsWatch.org

"The loss of Bhutto is not only a loss for Pakistanis, but also for the rest of the world hoping Pakistan can stabilize and modernize and lose itself one day of the threat of an al-Qaeda which strengthens and grows on its fertile grounds.

Her assassination comes at particularly high cost for Afghanistan and Hamid Karzai, who was in Pakistan attempting to build upon the strained, angry relations between the two countries. For every measure of instability within Pakistan, there is an equal measure of violent attacks into Afghanistan from within the Taliban-al-Qaeda Pakistani lairs. Recall that Musharraf's ceding of the Waziristan Agencies in the Federally Administered Tribal Areas was based on a written agreement that cross-border attacks into Afghanistan would be halted. They rose 300% overnight. An even weaker Pakistan ripped and distracted by internal unrest beyond the tribal areas spells trouble measured in blood for Afghanistan.

Equally concerned is India. Should al-Qaeda gain control of Pakistani nuclear weapons, the first target will not likely be New York, Tel Aviv or Baghdad, but rather New Dehli. If al-Qaeda can successfully decapitate the whole of India's political class, an insurgency by Indian Muslims could be successfully and swiftly launched, breaking India up into pieces while simultaneously and successfully resolving the Kashmir conflict - which is still teeming with al-Qaeda-aligned terrorist groups. Any Indian retaliatory strike can be plausibly acceptable considering the gains and the dutiful expansion of a new caliphate."

Islamists will always be what they have been all through history and its no use wishing them differently. Its we what matters the most. Economic progress does not mean much if we don't have the strength and the will to defend us and annihilate the enemy. India was producing almost 40% of world goods even when British took us over. Each and every Indian has to understand the value of defence preparedness and will to strike enery very hard. If we have any knowledge of islamic history, all the media analysis are nothing new. We don't need all these self cl;aimed analysts to trell us what will these jihadist will do to the world. Nor we need some great astrologers to predict. Its only our strength and will to strike, which will save us. India will survive any nucl;ear attack, come what may. Our sheer number is also our strength in any nuclear war. Even if 200 million Indians survive, thats still good enough my friends. Let us manufacture atom bombs round the clock...

RK^2

[raj2rif]

Islamists will always be what they have been all through history and its no use wishing them differently. Its we what matters the most. Economic progress does not mean much if we don't have the strength and the will to defend us and annihilate the enemy. India was producing almost 40% of world goods even when British took us over. Each and every Indian has to understand the value of defence preparedness and will to strike enery very hard. If we have any knowledge of islamic history, all the media analysis are nothing new. We don't need all these self cl;aimed analysts to trell us what will these jihadist will do to the world. Nor we need some great astrologers to predict. Its only our strength and will to strike, which will save us. India will survive any nucl;ear attack, come what may. Our sheer number is also our strength in any nuclear war. Even if 200 million Indians survive, thats still good enough my friends. Let us manufacture atom bombs round the clock...

RK^2

Dear Rajendra Kumar Ji,

Actually, I am a little surprised to read your post. There are a few issues that I would like to concentrate. Please also correct me if my perception and understanding of your post is wrong.

The first issue is about the history. I was wondering if we could generalize a thing. A well-known and reputed family with chequred history can have a bad child. Similarly an indifferent family or a bad family can have a good child as well. If that were so, why there can’t be good people in Islam. Actually, fact is that there are a lot of good people in Islam as well as there are bad people in every religion that is practiced in the world. So, if historically, Islamic rulers have been bad that does not mean we can’t have good Islamic Ruler. With all its deficiencies (as perceived by other communities) Akbar and Aurangjeb can’t be equated. They both were part of the same dynasty. To me, it is the time factor that is very important. The bygone era is history; our future would be what we do in present. And if we spread hatred in the name of religion or any thing else, that is what we are going to reap, exactly as Pakistan is now feeling the heat of nurturing the terrorism.

There is no doubt about having a formidable defense. Development has to be protected. Defense is counter-productive since it uses the enormous resources those could be otherwise used for development. But as we call it, it is a necessary evil (if we call it in terms of economic drain it puts on the country’s economy) that developed nations must have.

In the era where every one is talking about development and improvement of economy, your proposal of making “Atom Bombs” round the clock comes to me as a disappointment. I personally expect the educated and elderly people of the community guiding the youth toward the development rather than giving them a message of hatred.

Sir, my post has been written in good faith and if it hurts you even a small bit, I extend my BIG apology in advance. My own perception is that we need to unite the communities and spread the message of love rather than hate, for then there would be no difference between the fundamentalists and us. To me every Muslim is not a Zihadi. We on this forum itself have discussed our beloved Ex President Dr. Abdul Kalam. In history we had “Kavi Rahim” and I don’t know if “Raskhan” was also a Muslim.

[rkumar]

Dear Rajendra Kumar Ji,

Actually, I am a little surprised to read your post. There are a few issues that I would like to concentrate. Please also correct me if my perception and understanding of your post is wrong.

The first issue is about the history. I was wondering if we could generalize a thing. A well-known and reputed family with chequred history can have a bad child. Similarly an indifferent family or a bad family can have a good child as well. If that were so, why there can’t be good people in Islam. Actually, fact is that there are a lot of good people in Islam as well as there are bad people in every religion that is practiced in the world. So, if historically, Islamic rulers have been bad that does not mean we can’t have good Islamic Ruler. With all its deficiencies (as perceived by other communities) Akbar and Aurangjeb can’t be equated. They both were part of the same dynasty. To me, it is the time factor that is very important. The bygone era is history; our future would be what we do in present. And if we spread hatred in the name of religion or any thing else, that is what we are going to reap, exactly as Pakistan is now feeling the heat of nurturing the terrorism.

There is no doubt about having a formidable defense. Development has to be protected. Defense is counter-productive since it uses the enormous resources those could be otherwise used for development. But as we call it, it is a necessary evil (if we call it in terms of economic drain it puts on the country’s economy) that developed nations must have.

In the era where every one is talking about development and improvement of economy, your proposal of making “Atom Bombs” round the clock comes to me as a disappointment. I personally expect the educated and elderly people of the community guiding the youth toward the development rather than giving them a message of hatred.

Sir, my post has been written in good faith and if it hurts you even a small bit, I extend my BIG apology in advance. My own perception is that we need to unite the communities and spread the message of love rather than hate, for then there would be no difference between the fundamentalists and us. To me every Muslim is not a Zihadi. We on this forum itself have discussed our beloved Ex President Dr. Abdul Kalam. In history we had “Kavi Rahim” and I don’t know if “Raskhan” was also a Muslim.

Tavathia Sahab,

Trust me I am not communal. Being good is not enough. Can these so called good muslims lead their community away from the path of violence ? Do we hear any significant efforts in muslim world against these hardcore jihadists? If we are percived as soft targets, Jihadist, Chinese or for that matter anyone will hit us. Development and defence have to go hand in hand. I agree, every muslim is not a Jihadi. But almost every muslim is mum to their activities. How amny experiments do we need to learn that we have been enslaved by almost anyone..

RK^2

[rkumar]

here is the link to an interesting article on Ms Bhutto;

http://www.business-standard.com/economy/storypage.php?leftnm=lmnu2&subLeft=3&autono=309469&tab=r

RK^2

[piush_tomar]

Thats really good..

i remember two of her most interesting wits with karan thapar...

karan thapar was the VP of cambridge n she the VP of oxford...there was an interuniversity debate on premarital sex and benazir was lenient on it...while she was winning it all the way, karan rang the bell (he was the moderator, PS: i would love to have such moderators. lol) and asked if she would like to practise what she preaches and the audi burst into a laughter...

benazir tilted her glasses, looked into his eyes and said: yes, but not with you... and had the bigger laugh


when rajiv visited her in islamabad, after a dinner when media people were waiting for her statement to come she retorted a rajiv-benazir marriage would be a solution to sub-continent's problems...(rajiv and benazir had been parelled keeping in view their political legacies and aspirations by media and political figures)

[devdahiya]

Whatever...She did not deserve this inhuman disposal from this planet.I felt sad and aggrieved at her barbaric assassination which only insensible people can justify.Any loss of human life in this manner is deplorable and worth a shame.

[shailendra]

shail the concern is not over her death, the concern is the manner of her death...i will give an upperhand to millitancy and again boost their spirit as the repercussions of WTO, tube and mumbai serial blasts...whatever the stature of a politician-- corrupt or honest...such assassins are too big a terror to be negated within the same country...as you can see what happened in other countries after WTO

Oh I agree; the manner of her death was without discussion a barbaric and inhuman one! I don't care who the main culprits could be or how macho they believe they are, and however Bhutto herself may be blamed for the turn of events; but meeting out death to any woman like this is totally a cowardly act!

But having said that I shall have to agree to disagree with you on the level of militancy getting any sort of boost- militancy is already on a huge high in the subcontinent, (and for that even the way our own security forces and intelligence services are unable to thwart terrorist acts within the country) and hardly need any furthur boost, when it's already on a major high…and this act in broad daylight in Pakistan, on a major political figure after all the red flags, only reinforces that same fact that we are living in dangerous times and while the western world may have woken up to the terrorism fact after 9/11 but our shores have already been infliterated by this evil since long and we continue to be on dangerous grounds!....

But anyways, if we are simply dissecting her death act, I will tell you one thing though- I find it very weird that for someone who was a marked politician, had escaped being blown up right when she had set foot in Pakistan… how could the security measures taken be so-so lax!!?!!...I mean, it's almost like a no-brainer and doesn't need rocket science to now look back and see that unfortunately she almost had it coming!
That whole Bhutto assassination issue by the way has been already debated to death (no pun intended) by now here in the US media and after listening in to all the experts; one can only shake their head in disbelief at the utter disregard by the Bhutto camp for all the visible signs of possible fatal assassination attempts!

[ashwal]

I agree to Rajendra Sir ,
We need to be really assertive in our handling totalitarian political system and supremicism of sharia preached/enforced by these radicals all over the world. Terrorism is just a more visible and vilont manifestation of the same .If not checked, it is going to threten the very democracy and secular values we are trying to protect.

>>> But almost every muslim is mum to their activities. How amny experiments do we need to learn that we have been enslaved by almost anyone..

Rightly said, it is like very well thought out act of omission ,even in west ( e.g US ) , where moderate muslims should be feeling very less threatned by radicals , you hardly find any strong criticism of such barbric act of terrorism.

You can have many examples to amply demonstrate this
1. Post 9/11 there has been more than 10,000 small/medium/large attacks by extremist all over the world.
2. Consistently all over the world in any Muslim Majority nation population of non-Muslims has decreased progressively.
3. Non-Muslims & Women have very limited rights rather treated as a second grade citizen.
4. In a non-Muslim majority nation, even a small district of Muslim Majority would take whole system for a ride China, Russia, Philipines , India , Thailand all facing religion driven seperatist vilont movements.
5. Treatment of Non-Muslim Religious places and ancient history ( if it non-Islamic ) is destroyed or never discussed and credited.


Idea is not to hate or attack anybody but to actively confront and protect our social & cultural values , democracy , freedom ...