Who

[rsdalal]

Who you think is/was the most prominent jat
Raja SurajMal,
Ch Devi Lal,
Ch. charan Singh
Sir Chhotu Ram
Ch Tikait
Gokul Jat
Ch Ram Sawroop
Virender Sehwag
Any Other

Please write few line with your choice as well, why you think him/her to be the most famous

[sansanwalamit]

Being Amit SANSANWAL I have to go with Raja Soorjamal .......
and without any bias there is no doubt Sir Chhotu Ram is the Greatest......had he not been there things would have been reall sadd.......
Thank you

[uday]

How can you forget Seth Chhajju Ram ??? The Great Jute Tycoon........

[rsdalal]

Uday Bhai,
That is why I have added last entry for any Others. I was not showing any ignorance, but in fact I do not know about Seth Chhajju Ram.
May be you can write few line about the great jat to educate others.
I have a feeling that many more personalities are not part of the initial list so feel free to add on everyone.

Uday Dahiya (Jan 13, 2003 03:31 a.m.):
How can you forget Seth Chhajju Ram ??? The Great Jute Tycoon........

[rsdalal]

Ranvir Singh Dalal (Jan 13, 2003 08:51 a.m.):
Uday Bhai,
That is why I have added last entry for any Others. I was not showing any ignorance, but in fact I do not know about Seth Chhajju Ram.
May be you can write few line about the great jat to educate others.
I have a feeling that many more personalities are not part of the initial list so feel free to add on everyone.

Uday Dahiya (Jan 13, 2003 03:31 a.m.):
How can you forget Seth Chhajju Ram ??? The Great Jute Tycoon........

[akdabas]

OM PRAKASH CHAUTALA - The Chief Minister of HARYANA.

[akdabas]

AND MOST IMPORTANT.

We can not compare all these leaders with Sir Chhotu Ram. Not at all.

Sir Chhotu Ram. - The JAT leader who gave real freedom to JATS.

[akdabas]

Uday Bhai,

Please don't mind but I have to ask this question.

Seth Chajju ram was JAT or a Seth/Baniya. I think we are talking about the JAT leaders here. AND if he was JAT then why did not he used Ch. as the salutation ?

[ranjitjat]

ASHOK BHAI & ALL

I & Rajender singh written 10 times on history section,
SIR CHHAJUU RAM- WAS DHARAM PITA OF CH- CHHOTU RAM
HE & HIS WIFE BHUA LAXMI DEVI KEEP BHAGAT SINGH UNDER GROUND IN THEIR HOUSE IN CALCUTTA FOR 2 MONTHS.
LAMBA GOTRA JAT FROM VILLAGE- ALAKPURA BHIWANI- HARYANA.
THIS IS ON THIS SITE- NIJJAR MADE SOME INSULTING REMARKS ON MY & RAJENDER SINGH WRITING.
HOW CAN ANY BODY MISS- IGNORE
OR CALL A LAMBA JAT - GOD FATHER OF
CH. CHHOTU RAM A VANIYA OR KHATRI
ON JATLAND-BHAGAT SINGH KO SARAN DAENY WALY KO AAJ _ JATLAND PER LOG NAHI JANATY.
GOD HELP THE JATS COMMUNITY.

[yvsgaawar]

Ranvir Singh Dalal (Jan 12, 2003 07:58 p.m.):
Who you think is/was the most prominent jat
Raja SurajMal,
Ch Devi Lal,
Ch. charan Singh
Sir Chhotu Ram
Ch Tikait
Gokul Jat
Ch Ram Sawroop
Virender Sehwag
Any Other

Please write few line with your choice as well, why you think him/her to be the most famous

In my opinion all these Jats are great in their own time boundary. No comparison can be done between them. Like you cannot compare Maharaj Surajmal with Sir Chotu Ram or Ch. Devi lal with Sehwag. They are different in nature and in their respective fields.
There are more unsung JAT heroes who never came in the limelight, but had done a good job for country and community. Let's try to find those unsung heroes and give them the respect and honor they deserve.

[akdabas]

Dudee ji,

Laxmi Bhua ka naam to bhot achchi tarah yaad se aur unki kurbani bhee. Aap bar bar likh rahe hein, iske liye dhanyavad bhee.

Lekin ye Sir Chajju Ram ke naam ke samne Seth kyon laga diya ? Its confusing.

[akdabas]

Ek Bat to achchi bata gaye S. Nijjhar bhi.

Bhagat Singh ka surname - Sidhu/Sandhu.

[ranjitjat]

ASHOK BHAI
NIJJAR KO AAP BHI NAHI BHOLAY HAN.
NIJJAR JASY USA- INDIA MAE BHI BAHUT HAN.
PER APP UK MAE KITANY NIJJAR JASY LOGO KO JANTY HAN ??
AUR APP YAH KASY BHUL GAYE.
RAVI JI- KANTA JI- RAJENDER AUr kaye yo ny likha han
kae war
CH- SIR- CHHAJUU RAM - LAMBA JAT FROM ALAKHPURA BHIWANI
JATOO KA BHAMBA SHAH- CH CHHOTU RAM KA DHARAMPITA HH
UNKA NAM TO CH CHHOTI RAM SY BHI PHALY ANNA CHAHIYE.
KHABI 2 HISTORY SEC BHI DAEKHLIYA KARO.

[akdabas]

Dudee Ji,

Mujhe to sabhi log yaad rehte hein. History mein to mein thora kamjor hi tha. Ghana sa interest konya raha History mein.

Ib ye roj roj nai nai technology aa ja sein. Time ae na milta. ke karoon.

Jatland pa aapki aur amne kuch doosre JAT bhaiyon ki post parh ke jankari badha raha hoon.

Retire life mein poori ki poori JAT history padhoonga. NEW YEAR RESOLUTION. :)

[duhan]

Ashok Kumar Dabas (Jan 13, 2003 02:15 p.m.):
Dudee Ji,

Lagta hei aap bhula nahin pa rahe hein apne samkaleen sathi Ch. Nijjhar Ko. Ye S. Nijjhar jese log sare UK mein hi kyon rehte hein ?

I remember a quote here by Napoleon (I think):
"All existing adversities in world start from London"
Ashok jee- you have a friend in Napoleon!!!.

[akdabas]

Dharmpal Singh Dudee (Jan 13, 2003 03:43 p.m.):
ASHOK BHAI
NIJJAR KO AAP BHI NAHI BHOLAY HAN.
NIJJAR JASY USA- INDIA MAE BHI BAHUT HAN.
PER APP UK MAE KITANY NIJJAR JASY LOGO KO JANTY HAN ??
AUR APP YAH KASY BHUL GAYE.
RAVI JI- KANTA JI- RAJENDER AUr kaye yo ny likha han
kae war
CH- SIR- CHHAJUU RAM - LAMBA JAT FROM ALAKHPURA BHIWANI
JATOO KA BHAMBA SHAH- CH CHHOTU RAM KA DHARAMPITA HH
UNKA NAM TO CH CHHOTI RAM SY BHI PHALY ANNA CHAHIYE.
KHABI 2 HISTORY SEC BHI DAEKHLIYA KARO.

Ek ko ;)

[akdabas]

Urmila (Jan 13, 2003 04:18 p.m.):
Ashok Kumar Dabas (Jan 13, 2003 02:15 p.m.):
Dudee Ji,

Lagta hei aap bhula nahin pa rahe hein apne samkaleen sathi Ch. Nijjhar Ko. Ye S. Nijjhar jese log sare UK mein hi kyon rehte hein ?

I remember a quote here by Napolean (I think):
"All existing adversities in world start from London"
Ashok jee- you have a friend in Napolean!!!.

Urmila Ji, You are very right.

[duhan]

Urmila Ji, You are very right.[/quote]

Ashok jee- these are not my views but Napoleons!! I just happen to remember it when i read your post :)

[ranjitjat]

HISTORY- NAPOLIAN ko yad kar laena.

CH- CHHTU RAM KY DHARAM PITA -
CH- SIR CHHAJU RAM KO BANIYA KAHANA
PHIR MAJAK BANANA
NAEPOLIAN KA HAWALA DEKAR
THIS IS INSULT TO ALL JATS INCLUDING
CH- CHHOTURAM & CH CHHAJU RAM
you shouild be ashamed. this is not joke

[ranjitjat]

WHAT YOU MEAN
APKY SAMKALIN SATHI NIJJAt??????
NIJJAR JASY LOG UK MAE HI KUE RAHATY HAN??
THIS IS PERSONAL ATTACK ON ME & UK PEOPLE

[yvsgaawar]

Dedee Ji and Ashok Bhai,
Please cool down AND resolve your issues by writing private mails.

[duhan]

Dharmpal Singh Dudee (Jan 13, 2003 05:44 p.m.):
HISTORY- NAPOLIAN ko yad kar laena.

CH- CHHTU RAM KY DHARAM PITA -
CH- SIR CHHAJU RAM KO BANIYA KAHANA
PHIR MAJAK BANANA
NAEPOLIAN KA HAWALA DEKAR
THIS IS INSULT TO ALL JATS INCLUDING
CH- CHHOTURAM & CH CHHAJU RAM
you shouild be ashamed. this is not joke

My post was regarding Napoleon's view of U.K politics and its effect on world and has nothing to do with Jats -living or dead. I hope this ends all misinterpretations.

[akdabas]

Dudee Ji,

Apne samjhane mein galti kar di hei. I think samkaleen ka matlab 'Ek hi samay mein rehne wale" E.g. Aap aur mein bhee samkaeen hein. Lekin agar aapko bura laga ho to, Sorry. Aap hamare bujurg hein aur hum aapko naraj nahin kar sakte. Hum aapki respect karte hein.

Please be assured that there is no intention for the personal attack on anybody.

We all respect and proud on all our JAT leaders the same way as you do. There is not question of disrespecting or anything like that.

So please cool down.

[akdabas]

Dudee Ji,

Koi bhee kisi JAT ko baniya kese bana sakta hei. Aur apne JAT leader ka majak udana to koi soch bhee nahin sakta atlease mein to nahin and Its not a JOKE.

Of course, I would be ashamed if I had really made it a joke.

Sir Chajju Ram ke naam ke samne Seth lagane par mein confuse hoon. Jab unko SIR ka khitab mila hua hei to unka naam always SIR ke saath hi likhna chahiye. I just wanted to convey my message that we should write his name with Sir and not Seth.

Any way no more confusion. I am not gonna write anything on your posts.




Dharmpal Singh Dudee (Jan 13, 2003 05:44 p.m.):
HISTORY- NAPOLIAN ko yad kar laena.

CH- CHHTU RAM KY DHARAM PITA -
CH- SIR CHHAJU RAM KO BANIYA KAHANA
PHIR MAJAK BANANA
NAEPOLIAN KA HAWALA DEKAR
THIS IS INSULT TO ALL JATS INCLUDING
CH- CHHOTURAM & CH CHHAJU RAM
you shouild be ashamed. this is not joke

[sansanwalamit]

Hello everyone,
I wuld just like to add that Mr Dabas does make sense to me , as a person like me who unfortunatley never even heard Ch. Chajjoo Ram's name got really confused too ...I mean Seth is offcourse too Baniya to be used a Jat name's prefix......whereas on the other hand Sir is still suitable as it denotes knighthood not some cast .......thus the question raised was appropriate and I feel rest of the commments could have been avoided...
Amit Sansanwal

[ranjitjat]

DANVIR CH- SIR- CHHAJU RAM LAMBA OF V.ALAKHPURA- BHIWANI - HARYANA
DHARAM PITA OF CH. CHOTURAM
HISTORY MAE LIKHA HH.
10 times last 10 days mae duharaya gaya hh.
ABHI BHI HISTORY SEC MAE HH.
mostly people know this on site
APANI _ HISTORY NAHI PADHANA.
NAEPOLIAN KI DHUHAYE DENA.
HATTH_ DHARMI HH- PICHALY THREAD KI BHADDAS NIKAL NY KA BAHANA HH

[akdabas]

Gaawar Bhai,

Aesi koi baat nahin hei. JAT's mein thora bhot to chalta hi rehta hei. MARTIAL kom hei na..

Cheers,



YagyaVir Singh Gaawar (Jan 13, 2003 05:55 p.m.):
Dedee Ji and Ashok Bhai,
Please cool down AND resolve your issues by writing private mails.

[duhan]

APANI _ HISTORY NAHI PADHANA.
NAEPOLIAN KI DHUHAYE DENA.

Arrogance in persons of merit affronts more than arrogance in those without merit. I have nothing but contempt for your remarks- if your remarks were directed towards me.

[ranjitjat]

URMILA JI
I have nothing personal against you or any one.
YAH UNAKY LIYE HH
JO CH- CHAJJURAM KO BANIYA KAHATY HAN.
UK MAE SABHI NIJJAR JASY HI RAHATY HAN ??
MUJH KO USAKA SAKALIN KAHATY HAN.

[akdabas]

I think there is a big difference between what was said and what is being presented but I don't want to drag this discussion any more. There is a quote.

"The eye sees only what the mind is prepared to comprehend."

[ishwarlamba]

All,
Let us take it lightly.
In 1969 I went for a interview in Brijmandal college Hodel. Ch Ram Narayan was SDM of Palwal and president of college. Before interview I met him. He asked me chore ke nam se. I told my name. He said ye lambe he jato ke aggarwal and told Seth Chajju Ram was Lamba. He also said there was Subedar Richpal Singh Lamba from Dalanwas was first Indian to get get Victoria Cross in world war II.
I told him my forefathers had come from Dalanwas to Kutabgarh in Delhi long back.

Seth Chajju Ram had come from a poor family and was director of 80 companies including Birlas in Calcutta.
As bhai Rajinder Singh Ji has written, he was jute king of India. His had his own ships.
I was lucky to meet his grand son in Moth Luhari village (village of our Mrs Om Pati Grewal, Indian Consulate in Sydney) near Hansi in Haryana.
It is a custom in India especially in Calcutta and Bombay to call a rich person as seth.
It is a title and some day it could be Seth Ashok Kumar Dabas. We have a shop "Lamba Hardware Store" in Kutab Delhi. My father had a title Seth in our area. Many people coming from other villages used to think we are bania.
Nothing wrong in that.

We should try to understand why Dudee Sahib is so emotional on these issues. He could locate the samadhi of his grand father along with his grand son in France, who gave his life
in world war I. He also worked very hard to get correct the spelling written on the samadhi.
We can understand how his family might have suffered
Regards to all.

______________________________________
Ashok Kumar Dabas (Jan 13, 2003 06:38 p.m.):
Dudee Ji,

Koi bhee kisi JAT ko baniya kese bana sakta hei. Aur apne JAT leader ka majak udana to koi soch bhee nahin sakta atlease mein to nahin and Its not a JOKE.

Of course, I would be ashamed if I had really made it a joke.

Sir Chajju Ram ke naam ke samne Seth lagane par mein confuse hoon. Jab unko SIR ka khitab mila hua hei to unka naam always SIR ke saath hi likhna chahiye. I just wanted to convey my message that we should write his name with Sir and not Seth.

Any way no more confusion. I am not gonna write anything on your posts.




Dharmpal Singh Dudee (Jan 13, 2003 05:44 p.m.):
HISTORY- NAPOLIAN ko yad kar laena.

CH- CHHTU RAM KY DHARAM PITA -
CH- SIR CHHAJU RAM KO BANIYA KAHANA
PHIR MAJAK BANANA
NAEPOLIAN KA HAWALA DEKAR
THIS IS INSULT TO ALL JATS INCLUDING
CH- CHHOTURAM & CH CHHAJU RAM
you shouild be ashamed. this is not joke

[uday]

you can add Brig. Run Singh from Village Dighal.. As per my knowledge he helped JAT community by recruiting thousands of Jats in Army...He was also a minister in Devi Lal Govt somewhere in 1977 - 78... As people told me that he always prefer in army recruitment ( commisioned \ Non commisioned )

That's what I know about him. it is up to you all JATLAND MEMBERS to select him in your list or not ??

Aaap Bhai log kya bolte hai is barey main????

[uday]

As people told me that he always prefer JATS in army recruitment ( commisioned \ Non commisioned )..


Uday Dahiya (Jan 14, 2003 08:14 a.m.):
you can add Brig. Run Singh from Village Dighal.. As per my knowledge he helped JAT community by recruiting thousands of Jats in Army...He was also a minister in Devi Lal Govt somewhere in 1977 - 78... As people told me that he always prefer in army recruitment ( commisioned \ Non commisioned )

That's what I know about him. it is up to you all JATLAND MEMBERS to select him in your list or not ??

Aaap Bhai log kya bolte hai is barey main????

[ranjitjat]

I FULLY AGREE WITH YAGVAVIR SINGH.
This is not fair to select top ten like this.
THEY ARE ALL GREAT IN THEIR OWN TIME & FIELDS.
THERE ARE OVER MILLION MARTYRS IN HISTORY & UNSUNG HEROES
INCLUDING WINNER OF VCS& PVC
RESILDAR BADLU SINGH DHAKLA VC
SUBEDAR RICHHPAL RAM LAMBA VC
HAV-MAJOR -CHHALURAM DINOD -BHIWANI VC

RAMSARUP SINGH V KHERI VC

COL HOSHIAR SINGH PVC
MAJOR -GEN BUDH SINGH MC
BRIG- HOSHIAR SINGH MAHAVIR CHAKAR
MAJOR MAHINDER SINGH - MAHAVIR CHAKAR
AND THE LIST IS LONG
FROM FRANCE TO KARGIL
INCLUDING INA
FAUJI MEHAR SINGH
RAJA-MAHENDER PARTAP
MAHA RANI MATA KISORI
JAWAHAR SINGH
& MANY MORE
WE HAVE ALREADY MADE A LIST OF GREAT JAT JATNI ON THIS SITE.
OF COURSE BRIG- RANSINGH SPEAKER OF HARYANA VIDHAN SABHA.
I DO NOT FEEL HAPPY ABOUT THIS THEARD AT ALL
NO NEED TO PUT NO TAG ON GREAT NESS
WHO ARE WE TO DECIDE
WHO IS NO 1 & NO 10
LET THE PUBLIC DECIDE
YAH JANATA SABH JANTI HH
ADAMI KO PAHCHANTI HH.

[rsdalal]

Hello EveryOne,
Purpose of this thread was not to rank anyone, but just to get few lines about famous people and why author of the post thinks he is the most prominent. My knowledge is limited and I guess there are many out there in the same boat. That is why I added the "ANY OTHER" at the last in the list. It would have been a great knowledge sharing. But looks like we end up in mess all the time.

[duhan]

Dharmpal Singh Dudee (Jan 14, 2003 12:31 p.m.):
I FULLY AGREE WITH YAGVAVIR SINGH.
This is not fair to select top ten like this.
THEY ARE ALL GREAT IN THEIR OWN TIME & FIELDS.
THERE ARE OVER MILLION MARTYRS IN HISTORY & UNSUNG HEROES
INCLUDING WINNER OF VCS& PVC
RESILDAR BADLU SINGH DHAKLA VC
SUBEDAR RICHHPAL RAM LAMBA VC
HAV-MAJOR -CHHALURAM DINOD -BHIWANI VC

RAMSARUP SINGH V KHERI VC

COL HOSHIAR SINGH PVC
MAJOR -GEN BUDH SINGH MC
BRIG- HOSHIAR SINGH MAHAVIR CHAKAR
MAJOR MAHINDER SINGH - MAHAVIR CHAKAR
AND THE LIST IS LONG
FROM FRANCE TO KARGIL
INCLUDING INA
FAUJI MEHAR SINGH
RAJA-MAHENDER PARTAP
MAHA RANI MATA KISORI
JAWAHAR SINGH
& MANY MORE
WE HAVE ALREADY MADE A LIST OF GREAT JAT JATNI ON THIS SITE.
OF COURSE BRIG- RANSINGH SPEAKER OF HARYANA VIDHAN SABHA.
I DO NOT FEEL HAPPY ABOUT THIS THEARD AT ALL
NO NEED TO PUT NO TAG ON GREAT NESS
WHO ARE WE TO DECIDE
WHO IS NO 1 & NO 10
LET THE PUBLIC DECIDE
YAH JANATA SABH JANTI HH
ADAMI KO PAHCHANTI HH.


Dudee jee- you are right that it is very hard to judge people's contribution especially when they lived in different times and under different circumstances and their area of focus may have been different from each others. Just as many of us have favourite film stars/sports persons/ politicians, i don't see anything terribly wrong in having a favourite Jat personality. It seems simple to me.

[akdabas]

Thank you very much Uncle Ji for sharing the information in a really nice way. I appreciate your efforts.

[quote]Ishwar Singh Lamba (Jan 13, 2003 09:23 p.m.):
All,
Let us take it lightly.
In 1969 I went for a interview in Brijmandal college Hodel. Ch Ram Narayan was SDM of Palwal and president of college. Before interview I met him. He asked me chore ke nam se. I told my name. He said ye lambe he jato ke aggarwal and told Seth Chajju Ram was Lamba. He also said there was Subedar Richpal Singh Lamba from Dalanwas was first Indian to get get Victoria Cross in world war II.
I told him my forefathers had come from Dalanwas to Kutabgarh in Delhi long back.

Seth Chajju Ram had come from a poor family and was director of 80 companies including Birlas in Calcutta.
As bhai Rajinder Singh Ji has written, he was jute king of India. His had his own ships.
I was lucky to meet his grand son in Moth Luhari village (village of our Mrs Om Pati Grewal, Indian Consulate in Sydney) near Hansi in Haryana.
It is a custom in India especially in Calcutta and Bombay to call a rich person as seth.

[ranjitjat]

LAMBA SAHIB
THANK YOU FOR YOUR UNDERSTANDING.
I AM HAPPY THAT AT LEAST ONE PERSON CAN UNDERSTAND MY FEELING.
What ever you said- this information is on this site written by me & other that
CH SIR CHHAJURAM LAMBA WAS DHARAMPITA OF CH CHOTU RAM
Very few people read it- no one given me any credit. This was repeated 11 times in 11 days.
What upset me or any jat
ARE YOU OR YOUR FATHER WAS A BANIYA ?
We should respect our great leaders & martyrs.
Sorry so say very little resprct- understanding & good will on this site.
that is why is mess daily.

[pssangwan]

Ashok Kumar Dabas (Jan 13, 2003 12:48 p.m.):
Uday Bhai,

Please don't mind but I have to ask this question.

Seth Chajju ram was JAT or a Seth/Baniya. I think we are talking about the JAT leaders here. AND if he was JAT then why did not he used Ch. as the salutation ?

Very strange, people know so little about a GREAT JAT !
Seth Chhaju Ram was a JAT, rather the only SETH JAT.
He was from a poor landless family from village Sekhpura, near Hansi in Distt. Bhiwani.
He had no formal schooling; yet, he became a renowned scholar of Sanskrit. He was instrumental in creating DAV college Lahore and solely responsible for creating Jat School and College Hisar and helped financially Jat Schools and colleges of Rohtak and Jind. He helped many other educational institutes of -now Haryana. Jat School and college Hisar are named Seth Sir Chhaju Memorial……
He was a self made man. From humble backgrounds, he created his Empire of Jute Industry around Culcutta and Dhaka, with countless factories.
The road from Delhi to Hisar, a Kacha village-to-village path, was made a Packa road for his Horse-Buggy by lime stone brought from Dadri. You can well imagine the costs, labour and time!
He used to come his native village by train from Culcatta.
In those days even a Horse-Buggy used to take 2 days from Delhi to Hisar. So a rest house was built for him at Rohtak. Now it is called NILI KHOTHI . This was gifted to Sir Chhotu Ram, in which now his Dohata Virender Singh -Ex-minister and Ex-Congress President, lives. He was God Father of Sir Chhotu Ram and he helped him for his graduation from Lahore and everywhere later on.
His POTTA was MLA of Hansi in the last term. But only a so and so. Nobody of prominence evolved in his family progressed to imminence.
But the incident of keeping Bhagat Singh, concealed in his house for two months, is the Greatest. You all can well imagine the risk involved in it for such a prominent industrialist in the Angreji Raj. Only a Jat can do it, not a Bania.
The word Seth does not mean a caste. It is a BYOOK –PADVI OR UPADHI, given to a rich person.
He was a self-made man, a leader, a philanthropist, an educationist and a DESHBHAGAT.
He was a follower of Swami Daya Nand and a Pakka Arya Samaji and firm believer of our social and moral values.
AS FAR AS A WHO IS GREAT, THIS IS ALWAYS CONTROVERSIAL.
GREATS ARE GREAT.
NO COMPARISON!
WE SHOULD RESPECT THEM AND LEARN FROM THEM.
Let us all be the Greats -mentioned in the list!

Partap.

[ranjitjat]

DEAR DR PARTAPSINGH
WELCOME TO JATLAND
Thank you very much for your contribution & wise words about our great leaders. Most of this information about our leaders is on the site.
We request our members to read this information & history before writing here
WHO IS GREAT?
WHO IS RIGHT?
The Q should be what is right not who is right?
FREE & FAIR DEBATE IS ALWAYS WELCOME.

[akdabas]

Dr. Partap Ji,
First, Let me welcome you on the Jatland. We always need our senior JAT members here to teach us something about the JAT History / knowledge and some good habbits.

I agree that Sir Chajju ram is a great hero of hindustan and nobody questioned or can never question about his greatness or loyality to the country.

I have some thoughts I would like to put on the table.

--------------------------------------
"Very strange, people know so little about a GREAT JAT !"

Could you please tell if any study book from K.G. to 12 th covers any of these great personalities even in history books outside of haryana ?

JATS are everywhere and not only in HARYANA.
-------------------------------------------

"AS FAR AS A WHO IS GREAT, THIS IS ALWAYS CONTROVERSIAL."

GREAT is always great and I think it can never be controversial if the person talking about the GREAT knows about him.

No one should presume that everyone knows about everybody.
-------------------------------------------

"GREATS ARE GREAT. NO COMPARISON!"

I think they can still be compared if they are in the same field but they all are great. We are not saying that one is great and the other one is not. We are just comparing their acheivements and again there are so many factors which may impact on their acheivements. I agree its a tough job. Comparision does not mean that we are down grading the other one.

-------------------------------------------
"WE SHOULD RESPECT THEM AND LEARN FROM THEM."

THIS IS VERY TRUE. - NO EXCUSE.

Actually I would say that we should respect each and everybody unless until we found something WRONG/annoying. (Tit for Tat) These are my personal views and should not be mistaken as personal attack on anybody.

[smalik]

Dear Dr Sahaab,
welcome to Jatland
thanx for your views

[dkumar]

Well Gr8 discussion is going on...lot to learn from it...

Thank you all!
Regards,

[pssangwan]

Dear Ashok,
Thanks for taking interest in my post on Seth Chhaju Ram.
This is my belated reply due to my certain preoccupations.
You have raised certain questions, which I think I should reply.
I shall be brief, as far as, possible and these are my personal views and please, don’t take it other way.
--------------------------------------
1. "VERY STRANGE, PEOPLE KNOW SO LITTLE ABOUT A GREAT JAT !"
Q. Could you please tell if any study book from K.G. to 12 th covers any of these great personalities even in history books outside of haryana ?
JATS are everywhere and not only in HARYANA.
A. We Indians, as a whole, have been very poor Historians. Sadly, our writers of Modern history are not Indians but foreigners like Cunninghum and Todd etc. History of Jats is in even poorer shape. All our knowledge of our past used to be oral, ie told to from generation to generation and not recorded anywhere chronologically. Our only reliable records are with JAGGAAs who record the birth of new baby and PANDAAs who record the death of someone in the family. From these records you can construct your Genealogy Tree of your ancestors, but they don’t mention the deeds done by that person. They romanticize their records and are not reliable as history. They always stretch the Genealogy of every caste upto either Ram [Suryavanshi] or Krishan [Chandervanshi] !
But now some good books on the Jat History are available and they do mention the role of our present heroes.
-------------------------------------------
2. "AS FAR AS A WHO IS GREAT, THIS IS ALWAYS CONTROVERSIAL."
Q. GREAT is always great and I think it can never be controversial if the person talking about the GREAT knows about him.
No one should presume that everyone knows about everybody.

A. There is no fixed criterion to define greatness or a scale to measure it. This is purely a subjective assessment and not an objective analysis. Everyone has his own model heroes and individual assessments are bound to differ. So controversies are also bound to occur. My only point was that we should not compare them with each other and create a hierarchy.

You are right, nobody can know everybody, but it is better if one knows if a person in query is really somebody, especially from one’s own community. It gives some inspiration and pride.
-------------------------------------------
3. "GREATS ARE GREAT. NO COMPARISON!"
Q. I think they can still be compared if they are in the same field but they all are great. We are not saying that one is great and the other one is not. We are just comparing their achievements and again there are so many factors which may impact on their achievements. I agree its a tough job. Comparison does not mean that we are down grading the other one.

A. I think it is already covered in my first answer.
-------------------------------------------
4. "WE SHOULD RESPECT THEM AND LEARN FROM THEM."
This Is Very True. - No Excuse.
Actually I would say that we should respect each and everybody unless until we found something WRONG/annoying. (Tit for Tat) These are my personal views and should not be mistaken as personal attack on anybody.

A. Thanks. I also agree.

I hope this covers the main points.
A healthy discussion always benefits.
With warm regards and all good wishes,
Cordially,

Dr. Partap Singh Sangwan
Sangwan Hospital
Uklana Mandi Distt. Hisar Haryana -125 113
Ph. 01693-233077, 233677, 235077
pssangwan@rediffmail.com

;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; ;;;;;;;;

[lrburdak]

Hi !
Shri Ranvir Singh's list of prominent jat personalities is limited.If choice is limited to this list only I consider Maharaja Suraj Mal as the greatest personality.His strugle for establishing a jat kingdom at a very difficult and crucial time was worth appriciating.He should be given a due honour.
If we look at recent times I would like to mention one name-Dr.Gyan Prakash Pilania, Ex. D.G.Police of Rajasthan and Sanrakshak Jat samaj.His role is worth mentioning because he united Jats of Rajasthan,Haryana,Delhi,U.P.,motivated them to strrugle for common cause of community, to restore the honour of jats.The movement created by Dr.Pilania was so strong that the govt. of India and other state govts.were bound to hounor the demands for reservation for jats in the Govt.jobs,I do not find any parallel movement in recent times.
L.R.Burdak

[sudesh]

I Feel it is not wise to compare these great Jats

[raj2rif]

Dear All,
We should not compare these great leaders. With no offence to any one, we include Shewag and forget about Major Shaitan Singh PVC, Col Hoshiyar Singh PVC and likes of Brigadier Hoshiyar Singh MVC (Hero of 62 war).
While Virendra Shewag has done well for himself, he has a long way to go. And if the sports is the criteria then why forget Master Chandgi Ram and the long list of such sportsmen.

[rajendersingh]

dear all , its really sad to see ppl talking and discussing as we do in election days in villages. it is something like convessing for a candidate and crossing all limits of decency or could be breaking all level of human maturity.we all have our favourates but does it really sound well on this site to talk all this?it can lead only to bad taste,the level could be any.i suggest,we should always keep in mind the level of the thread.this site is being taken seriously by the community and we all have to help it to be so. as the site is totally nonpolitical so we all adhere to it.

kindly do not take it as personal offence bec it is not meant hear ,belive me

[rajiv7]

One of Seth Chhajju Ram family member is Sunil Lamba. He was the Chairman of Bhiwani Zila Parishad in the earlier term. This time his wife, Seema Lamba is the Chairperson.

There are many interesting stories about Seth Chhajju Ram's pride in being a jat and his fights with the traditional trading communities. As a matter of fact the traders all ganged up against him, since he was a jat, and almost totally ruined his business.

Rajiv

[lrburdak]

hi all
The point of discussion was who is greatest out of few names the author proposed leaving scope for others also. A large no. of personalities who fought for jat rights but did not find place in history can now be brought out.
L.R.Burdak

[akdabas]

Aap thik keh rahe hein Burdak Sahab. Let us continue with that.

I don't know much about history but currently Ch. Sahib Singh Verma is also doing good for JAT community. He has worked a lot for outer Delhi development which is JAT dominated area.

regards,

L.R.Burdak (Feb 12, 2003 09:25 p.m.):
hi all
The point of discussion was who is greatest out of few names the author proposed leaving scope for others also. A large no. of personalities who fought for jat rights but did not find place in history can now be brought out.
L.R.Burdak

[rajiv7]

Col Sahab,

I am a distant relative of Brigadier Hoshiar Singh Rathee. And I am also compiling a list of all war heroes from Haryana who got PVC, MVC and VrC.

Are you sure Brig Hoshiar Singh got the MVC? As far as I know, while he was a hero of the 1962 war, he got no medal. Can you please confirm this?

And Major Shaitan Singh, was he a Jat? As far as I know he was a Rajput from Rajasthan. Apologies for my ignorance.

Regards,

Rajiv

Col Virendra S Tavathia(Retd) (Feb 12, 2003 09:49 a.m.):
Dear All,
We should not compare these great leaders. With no offence to any one, we include Shewag and forget about Major Shaitan Singh PVC, Col Hoshiyar Singh PVC and likes of Brigadier Hoshiyar Singh MVC (Hero of 62 war).
While Virendra Shewag has done well for himself, he has a long way to go. And if the sports is the criteria then why forget Master Chandgi Ram and the long list of such sportsmen.

[ranjitjat]

Dear all.
First of all heading should be some great jats.
We cover all these name here & before under other heading.
The name of Army heroes- Col Hoshiar singh pvc
All victoria cross holders- mahavir chakra - virchakra & others are in history sec.
BRIG. HOSHIAR SINGH RATHI is MAHAVIR CHAKARA- I met him in RAJ -RIF CENTRE DELHI CANTT.
The names of all vc- pvc- award holders & Martyrs are in my book from France to Kargil.
Frist of all you the jat community- respect our heroes & leaders.
No-2- put the wrong historical fact right by writing true history of JATS & our heroes.
Jaihind

[rajiv7]

Brigadier Hoshiar Singh Rathi died in the 1962 Indo-China war. He commanded the Sela Brigade near Bomdilla. In the action on the crucial Sela pass, in which Brig Hoshiar died fighting so bravely, Subedar Joginder Singh got the PVC.

Brigadier Sahib was NOT awarded the MVC. He may yet be awarded and get his due recognition if the enquiry report is made public including the fact that Brigadier Hoshair Singh was asked to withdraw fom his position despite his vigorous protests. To save the incapable Generals, he was made a scapegoat.

Please all of you check your facts.

Rajiv Lather

Dharmpal Singh Dudee (Feb 25, 2003 06:55 a.m.):
Dear all.
First of all heading should be some great jats.
We cover all these name here & before under other heading.
The name of Army heroes- Col Hoshiar singh pvc
All victoria cross holders- mahavir chakra - virchakra & others are in history sec.
BRIG. HOSHIAR SINGH RATHI is MAHAVIR CHAKARA- I met him in RAJ -RIF CENTRE DELHI CANTT.
The names of all vc- pvc- award holders & Martyrs are in my book from France to Kargil.
Frist of all you the jat community- respect our heroes & leaders.
No-2- put the wrong historical fact right by writing true history of JATS & our heroes.
Jaihind

[ranjitjat]

Col Sahib please check & confirm the fact about Brig Hoshiar singh Co of your BN.

[rajendersingh]

chacha dudeeji namaskar,

as rajiv bhai rightly said it is our misfortune and the gravest of unjustice done to the soldier class as such and specificallyto brig.hoshiar singh and his family that the due honour was denied to him for some reasons which are very common to indian army.we all wish that brig. hoshiar singh should have got what was his due and that was pvc and not mvc,and sad part is that he got nothing .thas the realty.
i am saying this bec as secretary zila saink board jhajjar all such records were in my office andthis hard fact of life was open to all.
now the pvc, we have got only one that was late col hoshiar singh of 3 gernadiers. no other jat.............so all other names should be taken with due respect but at right place.

now there are a few senior officers (of course retired )from the community who told me that had gen k k singh would not have been in know of things another injustice would have been there as this community with largest number of martyrs and the best fighters but wthout a single pvc.

chhachji as u are a family with such a great contribution towards the countrywith generations of sacrifice, it is not required to have any lengthy talk on this topic .

[ranjitjat]

Rajender singh
You are right- we should not discuss this topic in this way.
Who is great?
Topic should be some great jats-Jatnis.
I closed the topic long time back. But it is still here.
It is hurting martyrs & Shaheeds Families.
It may end up like other thread.
I know about PVC only major Hoshiar singh got it/ we discussed in history topic- that also in my book- other jats are Victoria cross holder or mahavir chakra- vir chakra.
Some army site still on record about BRIG - HOSHIAR SINGH MVC.
If your record in sanik board say no- I respect that too- this is final word from me on this topic.
But now is the time to fight for justice for heroes like Brig. Hoshiar singh & other martyrs.
Fight for justice- instead fighting with each other.
Fight the route cause of the problems
Jaihind cheers

[rajendersingh]

chacha dudeeji namaskar,

kindly do not take it as a issue being blown out perportion. i realy admire and respect u for the great love and affection u got for the community and particularly the fauji's. it shall only be a fools venture to belittle your contribution towardsthis noble cause.and be rest assured what ever the shortcommings in us, no body can afford to cross this limits even considering all the human faults.
the issue of jats contribution has been brought on the site by u and its u who has been keeping it alive even when pple did not respond for weeks. so i being very much part of the system feel that we all should do justice to the issue . be assured, we all are there to respect the sentiments of all faujis which are realy close to u r heart. and keeping all this in mind i feel we should put in our best afforts in this direction

regards
rajender

[harvindermalik]

[quote]Ashok Kumar Dabas (Jan 13, 2003 06:38 p.m.):
Dudee Ji,

Koi bhee kisi JAT ko baniya kese bana sakta hei.

BHAI MAFI CHAHUNGA..THARE ROLE MAI KUDNE KI..PR JAT KI ATHANNI AALI BAT SAI KHUDKE BINA RAHEGI NHI....

BHAI..CHHAJU RAM JI KO US ZAMANE ME KING OF JOOTS MANA JATA THA.. BUSSINESS ME UNKA NAM KAFI BDA THA.. JAT COUM MAI SABSE DHANI HONE KE KARAN ..JAT BHAI HI UNHE SETH KAH KR PUKARTE THE..SETH KYUKI PAISE WALE KO KHA JATA HAI..ES LIYE JAT PROUD FEEL KARTE HAI...KI MHARA BHI AADMI SETH RYA SAI... JAB JAT BANIYE KA KAM MAI NAM KAMAWAIGA TO USNAI BANIYE KE TITLE SE PUKARNE MAI KE GALTI SAI...KOI DEVILAL TAI SETH THODE HI KAHWAI SAI..

[raj2rif]

Dear All,
Brigadier Hoshiyar Singh Rathi, commanded my own battalion twice. He was awarded MVC in 1962 war postumously.

[rajiv7]

Respected members,

This is really getting out of hand. There is no Government of India notification giving/awarding the MVC to Brig Hoshiar Singh. Brig Hoshiar Singh's son, Brigadier Rajinder Rathi recently retired from the Army Medical Core. He is my Phuffa. He confirms that Brig Hoshiar Singh was NOT awarded the MVC. Please do not confuse issues, please do not mention awards that have not been awarded. Please do not take the names of other brave winners of PVC and claim that they were Jats.

What is wrong with us? Are we so weak that now we have to take to falsehood to show the strength, bravery and unique nature of our community.

We are what we are, we are special, but we are also a part of the bigger community of Indians.

And to repeat, Brigadier Hoshiar Singh certainly deserved at least the MVC and maybe even the PVC, but he WAS NOT awarded the MVC.

Rajiv Lather

[ishwarlamba]

Rajiv Ji,
nameste
Thanks for information on Brig. Hoshiyar Singh.
Very happy to u are so closely related to the family.
I am lucky, I met this Mahan Atma
It was year 1960. He was Col and Dy commandent of NDA, Kharagwasla.
I was in year nine student at Haryana Shakti H. Sec School Kanjhawla, Delhi. In those days this school was very famous in Outer Delhi/Haryana. Brig Shahib's native place Bahadurgarh/Sankhol is only few KM's from our school. He was invited to give a talk.
In his talk he encouraged us to join the NDA.
He said even among one thousand people, I find out and tell this boy has got training at NDA Khadagwasla.
These great people belonged to whole India and gave their life for mother land.
-----------------------------------------
Rajiv Lather (Feb 25, 2003 10:35 p.m.):
Respected members,

This is really getting out of hand. There is no Government of India notification giving/awarding the MVC to Brig Hoshiar Singh. Brig Hoshiar Singh's son, Brigadier Rajinder Rathi recently retired from the Army Medical Core. He is my Phuffa. He confirms that Brig Hoshiar Singh was NOT awarded the MVC. Please do not confuse issues, please do not mention awards that have not been awarded. Please do not take the names of other brave winners of PVC and claim that they were Jats.

What is wrong with everyone? Are we so weak that now we have to take to falsehood to show the strength, bravery and unique nature of our community.

We are what we are, we are special, but we are also a part of the bigger community of Indians.

And to repeat, Brigadier Hoshiar Singh certainly deserved at least the MVC and maybe even the PVC, but he WAS NOT awarded the MVC.

Rajiv Lather

[rajiv7]

Respected Lamba ji,

Namaste. Mein aap se chhota hun, namaste karne ka mauka aap mujhe dijiye.

I have read up on Brigadier Sahab quite a lot, more so as we were related. My mother still keeps newspaper cuttings from the 1962 war especially those mentioning Brigadier Hoshiar Singh. He was a great soldier, a dashing officer. A smart handsome man. He laid down his life so that the men under his command could safely withdraw, while he himself refused evacuation through a helicopter. He died fighting where he had remained. He deserved the PVC, but he was made a scapegoat by the chaaploos generals of Nehru.

Rajiv

[ranjitjat]

Dear Rajiv
I met Brig Hoshiar singh when i was in school- during RAJ RIF CENTRE- RE-union in1957. My Mamaji- Capt. Amirsingh was in his BN.
We have respect for all martyrs.
We are writing this as respect. - we all understand now the true story. thank you telling us the bitter truth.
We all here to help each other not to hurt.
JAIHIND

[rajiv7]

Dharampal Singh ji,

Jai Hind.

I am just trying to set the record straight.

One hopes that some day the 'Henderson Report' authored by Lt Gen Henderson Brooks is made public and the real heroes get their dues and the real culprits are exposed. All patriotic Indians should agitate to have this enquiry report out in the open. Only then we will be able to learn from our past mistakes and make sure that they are not repeated in the future.

Brigadier Hoshiar Singh will always continue to be our inspiration.

Rajiv Lather

[ranjitjat]

Dear Rajiv
Thank you very much for putting record straight.
We all are with you to help in any way.
I am happy that some good result will come from this discussion.
Truth will come out- justice will be done- truth will win inthe last.
True martyrs will be respected for ever in free INDIA.
JAIHIND
Dharmpal Dudee

[akdabas]

Rajiv Bhai,

Aap bilkul thik keh rahe hein. I have been to Sankhol several times and all the people told me the same version of the truth what you are telling here.

I think everybody in the neighborhood of Sankhol knows Brig. Hoshiyar Singh just like their family member.

Initially I thought we are discussing some other Brig. Hoshiyar Singh here.


Rajiv Lather (Feb 26, 2003 11:46 a.m.):

Jai Hind.

I am just trying to set the record straight.

One hopes that some day the 'Henderson Report' authored by Lt Gen Henderson Brooks is made public and the real heroes get their dues and the real culprits are exposed. All patriotic Indians should agitate to have this enquiry report out in the open. Only then we will be able to learn from our past mistakes and make sure that they are not repeated in the future.

Brigadier Hoshiar Singh will always continue to be our inspiration.

Rajiv Lather

[rsdalal]

Can somebody (May be Rajiv bhai) put together one paragraph about Brig Hoshiyar singh, including the incidents of war 1962. Right now we have information in bits and pieces here and there. It will be good for people like me who knows the name of this great person, biut did not know till now the controversy and the un just done to this great jat soul. Information sharing will definatley help in bringing the issue to table again and may be we can bring it to our local politicians. MLA from Bahadurgadh is Mr Nafe Singh Rathi.
My villege (Ashodha) is very near and have seen Brig sahab's statue countless time, but did not know much, but just a name. thanks for sharing the info.

[rajiv7]

Ranvir Bhai,

I got in touch with Brigadier Rajinder Rathi (Retd), son of Brigadier Hoshiar Singh again today. I had the same idea that you have. I have requested him to send me all information that he has, right from Brigadier Sahab's birth to his ultimate sacrifice. He has also promised me some photographs. I am going to write up a full page biography of Brigadier Sahib, including the incident at Se La pass in some detail. Any person who has some information on Brig Hoshiar Singh may please mail it to me. Such help will be much appreciated.

Thanks,

Rajiv Lather

[ranjitjat]

Ranvir & Rajiv Bhai
Good idea- let us do some thing about it jointly as a team work.
I know Nafe singh Rathi MLA & Capt Inder singh MP- both are very helpful.
Major Rajender singh & Sanik board Jhajhhar will be helpful.
We can get more information From RAJ -RIF CENTRE & Army HQ about BRIgadier sahib life
history.
cheers ---- JAIHIND
Dharmpal Dudee

[rajendersingh]

dear all,

its realy a issue which every body has heard or read some or the other time. in fact he was the only jat about whom i ever read in any text book till my graduation .it could be some time in 3rd or 4th std in early 70's. and every body is aware that injustice has been done to the community while denying him ,his due . now i only request ,when we raise this issue ,what ever the forum it should be firm.
i mean either we keep mum or go all out ,my only request is that the great hero is not made a loughing stock. u all know the worth of our politicians.nothing against any body . i am ready to follow the collective order.

[lrburdak]

Rajender Singh ji
I fully agree with you. Such a great hero should find proper place in the history. Rajiv ji has agreed to bring more information on the life of Brig.Hoshiyar Singh. All community member should Help him by providing all available material.

[scsheorayan]

We all look forward to reading about this great soldier and fellow Jat whose name will shine for many generations to come.

[rsdalal]

How about start from here itself and we gether the info here, discuss here, put together a practical strategie and once ready, we can take it out. As this is private discussion boards so we can discuss all possible ways to present the case in front of law makers(or law breaker, Sarcasiom here)