Brahmans !!!! Some Historic facts (Must read)

[rkumar]

Friends,

1. Kashmiri Brahmans handed over Guru Gobind Singh's sons to Mughals to be excuted by laters.

2. Neither Geeta nor Ramayna nor Mahabharat was written by a Brahman. Brahmans have rarely been original thinkers. Even our great Kalidas was not a brahman.

3. Brahmans rarely have pardon as a virtue. right from Parsuraam, Durwasa, chanakya, Dronacharya to present days ones, they currse others at slightest ooportunity.

4. Brahmans accepted the supermacy of Ksthriyas race with reluctance only when Brahman king Ravan was killed by Lord Rama. Mind you it was Brahman Parsuram who opposed Sita's wedding to Rama openly. Ravan was part of that savaymbar.

5. Brahman image is that of a great devotee hindu to God. Even this image stands false if one looks carefully. Greatest of all devotee has been King Bhagirath who stood on one leg and brough Ganga on Earth (even though it might be mythological story)

6. I strongly doubt if Hindu culture or religion has anything to do with Brahmans as far as I can think. Given the choice, Brahmans would have never accepted any one as God who is not born to a Brahman mother. Brahmans have just used Hindu religion and culture to earn their livelihood. Most smaller hindu Gods are of animal shape and very contrary to Brahman thinking. Mind you most jats are vegitarian contrary to most Brahmans. I never beleive that a non-veg is more evolved than a veg person..( I am willing to argue this on any plateform).

More will follow on this...

Rajendra

[parul]

i think this site should not be used to defame any particular caste. Most of us would agree to the fact that caste system has become obsolete, but still there is a deeper cultural aspect to this, which has brought most of us here on this site.
parul

[rsdalal]

Good info Rajender ji, I did not know this, Thanks for sharing.

Rajendra Kumar Kalkhunde (Apr 13, 2003 11:20 p.m.):
Friends,

1. Kashmiri Brahmans handed over Guru Gobind Singh's sons to Mughals to be excuted by laters.

Rajendra

[pradeeprana]

Rajendra Kumar Kalkhunde (Apr 13, 2003 11:20 p.m.):
Friends,

1. Kashmiri Brahmans handed over Guru Gobind Singh's sons to Mughals to be excuted by laters.

2. Neither Geeta nor Ramayna nor Mahabharat was written by a Brahman. Brahmans have rarely been original thinkers. Even our great Kalidas was not a brahman.

3. Brahmans rarely have pardon as a virtue. right from Parsuraam, Durwasa, chanakya, Dronacharya to present days ones, they currse others at slightest ooportunity.

4. Brahmans accepted the supermacy of Ksthriyas race with reluctance only when Brahman king Ravan was killed by Lord Rama. Mind you it was Brahman Parsuram who opposed Sita's wedding to Rama openly. Ravan was part of that savaymbar.

5. I strongly doubt if Hindu culture or religion has anything to do with Brahmans as far as I can think. Given the choice, Brahmans would have never accepted any one as God who is not born to a Brahman mother. Brahmans ahve just used Hindu religion and culture to earn their livelihood. Most smaller hindu Gods are of animal shape and very contrary to Brahman thinking. Mind you most jats are vegitarian contrary to most Brahmans. I never beleive that a non-veg is more evolved than a veg person..( I am willing to argue this on any plateform).

More will follow on this...

Rajendra


Dear rajen,
i am thankful to u for this information.u should share more and more, i m also of same views hope u got my hint.
thanx.


didnt agree with parul, this site meant for jats we should be writing freely our views.

[parul]

can you quote the source of this information?
parul
Rajendra Kumar Kalkhunde (Apr 13, 2003 11:20 p.m.):
Friends,

1. Kashmiri Brahmans handed over Guru Gobind Singh's sons to Mughals to be excuted by laters.

2. Neither Geeta nor Ramayna nor Mahabharat was written by a Brahman. Brahmans have rarely been original thinkers. Even our great Kalidas was not a brahman.

3. Brahmans rarely have pardon as a virtue. right from Parsuraam, Durwasa, chanakya, Dronacharya to present days ones, they currse others at slightest ooportunity.

4. Brahmans accepted the supermacy of Ksthriyas race with reluctance only when Brahman king Ravan was killed by Lord Rama. Mind you it was Brahman Parsuram who opposed Sita's wedding to Rama openly. Ravan was part of that savaymbar.

5. I strongly doubt if Hindu culture or religion has anything to do with Brahmans as far as I can think. Given the choice, Brahmans would have never accepted any one as God who is not born to a Brahman mother. Brahmans ahve just used Hindu religion and culture to earn their livelihood. Most smaller hindu Gods are of animal shape and very contrary to Brahman thinking. Mind you most jats are vegitarian contrary to most Brahmans. I never beleive that a non-veg is more evolved than a veg person..( I am willing to argue this on any plateform).

More will follow on this...

Rajendra

[rkumar]

Parul (Apr 14, 2003 10:02 a.m.):
can you quote the source of this information?
parul
Rajendra Kumar Kalkhunde (Apr 13, 2003 11:20 p.m.):
Friends,

1. Kashmiri Brahmans handed over Guru Gobind Singh's sons to Mughals to be excuted by laters.

2. Neither Geeta nor Ramayna nor Mahabharat was written by a Brahman. Brahmans have rarely been original thinkers. Even our great Kalidas was not a brahman.

3. Brahmans rarely have pardon as a virtue. right from Parsuraam, Durwasa, chanakya, Dronacharya to present days ones, they currse others at slightest ooportunity.

4. Brahmans accepted the supermacy of Ksthriyas race with reluctance only when Brahman king Ravan was killed by Lord Rama. Mind you it was Brahman Parsuram who opposed Sita's wedding to Rama openly. Ravan was part of that savaymbar.

5. I strongly doubt if Hindu culture or religion has anything to do with Brahmans as far as I can think. Given the choice, Brahmans would have never accepted any one as God who is not born to a Brahman mother. Brahmans ahve just used Hindu religion and culture to earn their livelihood. Most smaller hindu Gods are of animal shape and very contrary to Brahman thinking. Mind you most jats are vegitarian contrary to most Brahmans. I never beleive that a non-veg is more evolved than a veg person..( I am willing to argue this on any plateform).

More will follow on this...

Rajendra


Dear Parul,

The sources of information are;

1. Role of Kashmiri Brahmans in Guru Gobind Singh's sons handing over is well known and you can consult sikh history on this.

All other points mentioned by me are public knowledge and I have just put hear for ready reference. Please let me know which particular point you dispute. I will bring as much proof as will be convincing to you. Please note that I am not a particulat caste baiter. I am just trying to educate Jat memebrs to be equiped with ready answers when they face others who are jat baiters. Hope you read the article I posted only few days back titled jet vs Jat written by Vir Sanghvi in Hindustan Times.

Hope you know what is written in history books abut Jats? I was reading "India by Al-Biruni" where they say that Lord Krishna was born to Jat parents and Jats were Sudras...I will argue on any forum and prove that this is totally false and malicious. History of great races have been distorted to pull them down. ...any way...i will be keen to answer all your questions on the subject if you still have doubts.

Rajendra

[ram]

I agree with Everything that Rajender said about Brahmins. Kashmiri Brahmin gave Guru Gobind's son to Nawab of Malerkotla to be Buried alive in the wall. Guru Gobind's father Guru Teg Bahadur gave his head to save Kashmiri Pandits. What a way to return the favor? Another daughter of Kashmiri Brahmin (Indira
Gandhi) attacked Golden Temple.

[mbamal]

Rajenndra,

may b brahamans have distorted facts to defame the great tardtions, culture and race of jats....but we must be sensible and kind to forgive such things...jet age shoud be a age of jats...let arise above brahaman and baniya bashing and show them that like a gr8 race we have the great virtue of forgiveness...

I am not saying that we should be indiffernt to such things but let us all demonstrate that we have power combined with forgiveness...and its apt too...

shama shobti us bhujang ko jiske pass garal ho,
woh kya jo vish rahit veneet saral ho..

so forgivess goes in hand to hand with our greatness...

[ravichaudhary]

Nikian Jindan-Vada Saka: Story of Child Martyrs#
Dr. Manmohan Singh*

# The anniversary of the martyrdom is observed in the last week of December.

* 889 Phase-10, SAS Nagar. 160069 (PB)

Guru Gobind Singh Ji, the founder of the Khalsa Panth sacrificed his whole family to protect the freedom of faith for India’s persecuted masses, standing as a bulwark against the tyranny and suppressive policy of Mughal rulers. To begin with, the child Gobind in 1675 at the age of nine years, implored his father, Guru Teg Bahadur to sacrifice his life to protect the Kashmiri Pandits against forcible conversions after over-hearing the grim dialogue between Guru Teg Bahadur Ji and the Pandit delegation from Srinagar. Guru Teg Bahadur was put to death in Delhi’s Chandni Chowk, along with five devoted Sikhs in Novemmber, 1675.


After this tragic but noble martyrdom, Guru Gobind Singh became the 10th Guru of Sikhs and he fought a number of battles not only against marauding hill Rajas but also the Mughals. While at Quila Anandpur Sahib in 1701 AD, along with many followers, the forces of Subedar Sirhind and the Hill Chieftain, Raja of Bindher, viciously laid siege to the fortress.

The seige continued for many months. The enemy forces eventually made an offer to Guru Gobind Singh to leave the fortress on the sworn undertaking that they would not attack his family or followers on the way out. The Guru initially declined the offer but the beleaguered Sikhs, pestered by pangs of starvation and sickness, passed a resolution on the basis of which Guru Ji accepted the offer. But the Mughal forces, in contravention of the promises made in the name of God, attacked the Guru and his entourage while they were crossing the flooded Sirsa river. During the attack the family of Guru Gobind Singh was separated. Guru Ji, his two elder sons, Baba Ajit Singh and Baba Jujhar Singh and companions reached Chamkaur Sahib, while the younger two sons, Baba Zorawar Singh and Baba Fateh Singh and his mother Mata Gujari took shelter at the house of Gangu Brahmin, a long time servant of the Guru.


At Garhi Chamkaur Sahib, Guru’s first two sons Baba Ajit Singh and Baba Jujhar Singh and a handful of followers laid down their lives in the battle of Chamkaur fighting against several thousand strong Mughal army. Guru Gobind Singh left for Machhiwara after the battle of Chamkaur Sahib.


Meanwhile, Gangu Brahmin, in whose house the two younger sons and mother of Guru Ji had taken shelter in village Kheri, was allured by the jewellery of Mata Gujari and the reward set by subedars of Sirhind for their arrest. After stealing the bag full of gold he informed the Kotwal of Morinda about their stay at his residence. They were peremptorily arrested and handed over to Wazir Khan, the Subedar of Sirhind.

Rest of article at:

http://www.sikhreview.org/december2000/moral.htm.

[rkumar]

Mandeep Bamal (Apr 14, 2003 05:20 p.m.):
Rajenndra,

may b brahamans have distorted facts to defame the great tardtions, culture and race of jats....but we must be sensible and kind to forgive such things...jet age shoud be a age of jats...let arise above brahaman and baniya bashing and show them that like a gr8 race we have the great virtue of forgiveness...

I am not saying that we should be indiffernt to such things but let us all demonstrate that we have power combined with forgiveness...and its apt too...

shama shobti us bhujang ko jiske pass garal ho,
woh kya jo vish rahit veneet saral ho..

so forgivess goes in hand to hand with our greatness...

Mandeep bhai, I agree with you that forgiveness is a virtue but indiscrete use of this virtue or for that matter any virtue can be very dangerous. History is full of such incidents. Just think of some following incidents;

1. Prithviraj Chauhan let Ghouri free 16 times..Ghouri again attacked Delhi 17th time and imprisoned Chauhan and took him to afganistan...what all followed everone knows till date.. and Pakistan calls its deadly missile as Ghori..and Abdali after the name of same invadors.

2. Sivaji was lured by Aurangjeb to Delhi fort and imprisoned. It was Shivaji's smartness that he escaped else we all would have been hanging our head in shame.

I would quote here from the book of one very famous british auther as to how he defines evil.." Good carried in excess is evil"...

Jats have power and lots of great virtues but we lack the knowledge as to how to use them in right amounts so that we gain our rightful position in society.

Rajendra

[mbamal]

Rajendra Jee,

Well said...

Mandeep

[budhian]

It is the most fundamental of all my beliefs that we can't look good by making others look bad.

BTW what makes you believe that Ramayan , Mahabharat et al aren't fiction .

Atleast base your arguements on facts and not on fiction and mythology .

[rkumar]

Abhishek Budhian (Apr 15, 2003 01:47 p.m.):
It is the most fundamental of all my beliefs that we can't look good by making others look bad.

BTW what makes you believe that Ramayan , Mahabharat et al aren't fiction .

Atleast base your arguements on facts and not on fiction and mythology .

Abhishek Bhai,

Please trust me, I have no intentions of making others look bad. Please read my signatures and you will know what sort of person I am. All I am trying to put forward is how we have been treated in hstory by some one who themselves have doubtful credentials.

Well..Mahabharat, Ramayan and Geeta all may be or may not be fictions..In case one wants to beleive them to be work of fiction, I will take recourse to human evolution. For a moment even if we assume these books to be work of fiction, the brains behind these fictions were really great and need to be admired that millions beleive them to be true..... Mind you most noble prizes and other major prizes in literature are given on the work of fictions and rarely on reality. Anyway this sort of discussion can never be concluded. May be I will not win my arguments, but certainly I won't loose them either.

Rajendra

[parul]

Just an observation...
why it happens we always compare overselves with the so called higher castes and never with so called lower castes..? in my opinion this fact itself hints towards that deep down we have nurtured a particular feeling..a feeling of inferiority complex.
parul

[mbamal]

parul dont use the word we...if u feel that way then u might have nurtured the feeling of being inferior...thrs nothing wrong to b proud of ones race....rajendra jee is just tryin to say that brahamans false propaganda about them being the elite is not true...n hes has given some refrences....

[budhian]

The Brahmin class has shown all the vices of a privileged and entrenched class in the past and large numbers of them have possessed neither learning nor virtue. YET they have largely retained the esteem of the public not because of the temporal power or possession of money but because they have produced a remarkable succession of men of intelligence and their record of public service and personal sacrifice for the public good has been a notable one .The whole class has profited by the example of it's leading personalities in every age .

[parul]

if soemone is trying to create a public opinion on the basis of a few isolated individual cases, i find it a bit unbearable.
on the top of the they are based on a few "known facts" whose soruce is unknown.
while reading my mail, you missed the first half, you may want to say something about that.
parul

PS: all my comments should be taken as general statements.
Mandeep Bamal (Apr 15, 2003 03:32 p.m.):
parul dont use the word we...if u feel that way then u might have nurtured the feeling of being inferior...thrs nothing wrong to b proud of ones race....rajendra jee is just tryin to say that brahamans false propaganda about them being the elite is not true...n hes has given some refrences....

[mbamal]

Parul,

First of all when you express your viewpoint on an online forum like this then it would always be viewed as your personal opinion and not a general opinion.

Rajendra Jee just highlighted some of the refrences related to brahaman hypocracy..He never implied to be disrespectful to any race. It was just for the sake of knowledge of the members of this forum...and so i dont think it should be misunderstood that he was trying to defame the race of brahamans...every race has its bad and good things...and thrs nothing wrong in pointing that out...

You said that why do we always compare ourselves will high castes...like brahamans...So Rajendra's jee post was exactly to remove that misconception from you mind...brahams are no high castes...they have always been dependent on JATS(zamindars) for their survival. So thrs no question of comparison. I do not beleive in Castes and all that but i beleive in science and biology..Since Jats were hard workin people and they were strong...and they never married outside their race...so its not wrong to say that Jats have evolved to be a physically superior race...so in that sense also brahamans are no high castes...I do not know where you come from but in haryana brahamans are no more then bhiksus who begged for food and other things since they did not have any other resources and skills to manage for themselves.

I apologize if any of it hurts your sentments...