2nd World jat Convention- A measurable step forward in the right direction.

[amitdahiya]

At the conclusion of the 2nd world jat convention there are a flood of impressions. experiences and indeed suggestions for improvement from many quarters. But the following useful developments and occurences do stand out in one's mind after the event.

1. Jats from all over the world including Pakistan answered the call of the Kaum and met as scheduled in New Delhi on 280204. This speaks well both for the large vision of the organising team who refused to get bogged down in petty local issues and are focussing on developing a global vision and mission statement for the Kaum.

2. While the event was open to all, the fact that Shri Som Pal ji ( Chairman of the National commission on Farmers) was chosen to inaugurate the event as opposed to a politician speaks well of the fact that the foundation is founded by a technocrat- Shri Jagdish K.Gehlawat a former professor of the IIT (Kanpur) who seeks to bring a scientific temperament to the development initiatives for the quam.

3. The fact that eminent politicians chose to attend is a measure of the political maturity of the organisers and also the acceptance and respect that the institution enjoys in the corridors of decision making in the country. To expect that senior jat politicians in attendance would not offer political commentary at such an important event of the Kaum is perhaps a little naive of those who have raised some sharp controversy on this site. We are after all in the run up to the largest democratic elections in the world. and you may not expect politicians to ignore this even if you do in your innocence of reality.

3. The programme commenced and concluded more or less precisely as scheduled which speaks well for the no nonsense management style of the event.

4. Arrangements at this event were simple and sophisticated both in terms of the structuring of the presentation sessions and the technologies employed including large screen projections and cordless microphones for the use of the audience. The simple but good Jat fare that was enjoyed by all participants was also in good taste.

5. There is no substitute to these attempts as we muddle and struggle our way ahead to learning how to communicate and cope with the need to accept the Challenge of Change which as a theme of the event found all round approval and acceptance.

6. While it is not th most important aspect of a convention, special mention needs to be made of the excellent signage that was put up by Vinod Choudhary. Vinod is a modest unassuming Jat from Trans Yamuna who did a truly world class job in terms of quality. Cetainly the signage was the best ever seen at any Jat event at any previous point of time. This may not seem important to some of us today, but it is an important component for large scale event management in the future. So this has now become a proven capability and a dedicated profesional has been found for all jat events.

7. While the politicians quite reasonably made their very focussed presentations with the coming elections in mind, the other presentations on subjects like on The power of communication by Soni Sangwan of the Hindustan Times, Karlo Duniya Mutthi Mein by Die Hard admirer of the Jat Kaum Pankaj Malhotra, and a key note presentation by the undersigned on an Interactive Rural Development Index for Villages and suburban communities, placed this event on a far higher intellectual and practical plane than similar events of the past.

Certainly the organisers will discover a treasure trove of options and if 's and buts as they introspect over the organising of the 2nd world Jat Convention but I do believe that at the end of th day there is some real cause for satisfaction over the results of the effort.

Yours Sincerely
Amit Dahiya

[piush_tomar]

Dear Sir,
It was a poor gethering out there..the motive was only political!!

[ajmer]

Thanks a lot Amit Bhai for such a good take on the convention. It is hard to believe that it was purely a political gathering because as far as I know the convention was announced much before the elections were announced. Also, what is wrong for Jats to get involved in politics. I really appreciate the effort of the organisers. In fact, I fully support the idea of Muslim Jats and Sikh Jats, Christian Jats and any other Jats getting together for such an event. Aliances are important in life.

Great job guys.

-ajmer

[ravichaudhary]

At the end of the day the only sense anything makes is political power.

Piyush and others, why be ashamed or afraid of it ?

We Jats have our identity in Haryana , U P, Punjab, Rajastan,because our ancestors held the political power in their hands- the Haryana Sarv Khap.

When we lost that power in 1857, we lost our position, and have suffered since then, so much so that people have even forgotten what the Haryana Sarv Khap was.

We lost our govrening system, control over state reveunes, the judicial system, our schools, to start with.

We became a society of peasants and serfs and never recovered.

If you do not believe me, just check around you.

Elsewhere we have lost too, and been marginalized out of existence.

Even here we are being marginalized more and more everyday.

Since we do not control the revenues, and spending power,the resources we Jats create, go to others.

Our children in the villages go uneducated, without heath care, and are reduced to a life of grinding poverty


We must now reach out and change that.

To do that, we need to reclaim, our history, our culture, our identity .

Prof J K Gehlawat and others have taken a very important and gigantic first step, we must all do what we can to support them.

The annual convention is but a first step, and we need our new generation to take part and drive the movement.

As for numbers, wait untill the 5th or 6th convention. As crtical mass is achieved, watch everyone join in.

I would rather see people like you Piyush, Amit and others take active part, in asking Prof Gehlawat, what help he needs, and providing it.

Many hands make light work.


Ravi

[amitdahiya]

Dear Mr Tomar,
You have apparently decided that it was apurely politcal affair and therefore a poor one. I am curious to know how you were involved in the event or even if you made any contribution other this remark. To the best of my knowledge the event was based on selective invitation and no attempt was made to 'truck in the crowds'. If after listening to erudite thinkers on development issues like Shri Som Palji you insist on using expressions like 'A poor gathering' I am going to request you to use temperate language towards your elders or present here your own credentials to speak in this fashion.

Please receive this communication in good spirit.

Sincerely
Amit Dahiya


Piyush Tomar (Mar 04, 2004 07:48 a.m.):
Dear Sir,
It was a poor gethering out there..the motive was only political!!

[amitdahiya]

Dear Ajmer,Ravi and Piyush( Last but not the least),

Thank you for your encouragement, illuminating comment and er.. sharp feed back, respectively.

I was given the opportunity to serve the event as its spokesman and also to present the Keynote address. Since this post is being typed five minutes after the previous one I do not feel so strongly about brother Piyush 's comment . Perhaps numbers are important but I dont think that this brain storming and networking event had that on the agenda, but maybe Piyush has a point and in future events large numbers should also become one of the objectives.

Yours thoughtfully
Amit.

[ravichaudhary]

What was the attendence ?

Who were the speakers ?( thanks Amit for telling us you were one of them Well done)

What papers were presented ?

What resolutions were passed ?

What initiatives were set in motion?

Was there a youth wing created ?

These are standard questions, which people would like information on.


Now Rome was not built in a day, but firts steps are important,

Is Piyush in Delhi ?

Why not coopt him ( if he is willing and ha sthe time)to help answer some of these queries.

We need a communication coordinator, for this nascent organization, whose only function should be to provide communication.

Ideally it should be a full time , paid position.

Hopefully Mr Rajnish Gehlawat will return to this forum and help

Ravi

[nvedwan]

I think the Convention is a step in the right direction, and since it is a point in an evolving process, it can always expand/modify its agenda to be of direct relevance to our community. Constructive feedback and comments should thus not only be tolerated but actively solicited.

However, I have a humble suggestion to make. In connection with the mission statement of Jat Jyoti under whose ambit this convention was organized (?), I find the use of the word "Aryan" fraught with problems. There are several reasons for this and the mainly the problem arises because of the baggage that the word carries, not necessarily due to the intentions of the user(s).

The world Aryan takes us back to the Nazi propaganda about the superiority of some races (Germans, Hitler considered them pure Aryans, and the acme of human evolution, the "master race") vis-a-vis others, an ideology, which ultimately led to the holocaust and deaths of millions of innnocent people.

Do want to be associated with a word that has such inflammatory potential. This is all the more significant since we are terming ourselves "world"/International here. In the strictly Indian context, the word has different connotations (say, as in Arya Samaj), but I think it will be a marker of our intellectual maturity if we are alert to the consequences of our actions AND WORDS, as we go mainstream. Anyways, what's the significance of the word in terms of its meaning? How do you define it: in terms of geographic origin, outdated concept of "shared blood", or what?

In general, it is a good policy to stay away from theories that proclaim racial/ethnic superiority of a people/group, even implicitly. At best, the use of the word "Aryan" conveys a certain antiquated mindset, unfamiliar with the (serious) scholarship in the area of culture/history, and of its negative connotations, albeit unintentional. We definitely don't want to be misunderstood as being associated with groups like the "aryan brotherhood": white supremacist organizations in the US (most of them claim to be "aryan") or left with the (defensive) task of explaining the differences to serious people.

[ravichaudhary]

The term Aryan is now considered to be a lingustic concept, unrelated to race.

Arya means noble.

Aryan means the noble ones

In the case of the Arya Samaj the term Arya is correctly used.

Yet also if some misguided Nazi's misused the phrase, as they did the beautiful Swastika, and turned a symbol of light into darkness, should we give up the Swastika.?

I would hope not


Ravi

[nvedwan]

I have studied linguistics but never came across "Aryan" languages: the term used is "Indo-European".

The point is that we have to behave in a somewhat rational, somewhat accountable way, unless of course we want to be considered a fringe, lunatic group. Therefore, it doesn't so much matter what my grandmother thought of it, but what's the meaning attached to it by the community of serious, well-meaning people, scholarly or otherwise.

[ravichaudhary]

Neeraj Vedwan (Mar 06, 2004 10:27 a.m.):
I have studied linguistics but never came across "Aryan" languages: the term used is "Indo-European".

The point is that we have to behave in a somewhat rational, somewhat accountable way, unless of course we want to be considered a fringe, lunatic group. Therefore, it doesn't so much matter what my grandmother thought of it, but what's the meaning attached to it by the community of serious, well-meaning people, scholarly or otherwise.
**************
Maxmueller who coined the term Aryan as race , later disowned it.

The term, was popularized by the German Nationalists and the British Colonialists as well as some of the Indian syncopants. Trautman wrote a rather interesting book" Aryans and British India" Vistaar Publications, New Delhi, which shows how this "Aryan" as a race concept pervaded and became part of the bedrock of the Indian Psyche and Indian History.

Stuff like this gets embedded, like some( many) Jats think they are degraded Rajputs, descended from the union of a Rajput and a Jat( gujar) woman.

and ,

I would not rush to disown what your grandmother thought, many of our oral traditions are handed down from generation to generation orally.

Written history, started from an oral base.

That is one of the things that has enabled us ( is enabling us) to reconstruct the history of the Jats, which is at considerable variance from established ' scholarly" sources.


What is your area of study in linguistics. What languages do you know?

Do you know Pali, Kharosthi, Brahmi, Sanskrit, any of the Central Asian Languages?

If you do, you can be of great help to me, especially on the Jat History group, where we deal with many non jats.

I need many terms interpreted- Start with "Jatveda'.in the vedas

Are you a member there, if not please join and help us.

Ravi

[nvedwan]

I have studied some anthropological linguistics, and was speaking from that understanding. The point I am trying to make is very simple:

1. The term "aryan" has a lot of negative connotations to it because of its (mis)use in the past. Also, what do we exactly mean by saying World Jat Aryan forum as opposed to World Jat forum? I don't think the usage is directed at highlighting membership in some linguistic group. Quite the contrary, the quasi-racial tone (and its associated air of superiority) of the term is pretty clear. Since we are attempting to reach an international audience, we have to be careful about terms that we may otherwise throw around carelessly. This is usually one of the preconditions of entering mainstream (but not obscurantist) discourse. Just like, if I were to apply a Swastika on my door, it wouldn't fly just because I can claim it be an originally Hindu symbol. People are more likely to go by what it means in the popular imagination.

Again this is what I meant by the reference to the "grandmother", not that I don't value her thoughts and ideas, but that in entering the larger stage you have to broadly conform to the canons of accepted discourse in order to be considered and not be dismissed as Quixotic, and worse.

[ravichaudhary]

what languages do you know?

Ravi

[amitdahiya]

Dear Neeraj.
Although the event was initially scheduled as the World Jat Aryan Convention, my first submission to the principal organiser of the event( as a spokesman) was to drop the use of the word aryan and this was easily achieved by a very convenient lapse of memory . It is a tribute to the sensibility of the organisers that they too came around to this point of view. Secy Shri J.K. Gehlawat has agreed in priciple to drop the use of the word Aryan from the corporate entity of the Foundation and its events for the simple reason that it does not need emphasis. The sky is blue and we are Aryans so why belabour the point by inviting unnecessary comment and controversy which serve only to distract and confuse us from quickly acquiring a focussing ability for the mission statement which i advise is the top most priority and which does deserve your collective energy and response in continuation of this post.

So please Band of brothers, get together now and reply with short focussed drafts on a mission statement (Not more than thirty words please), this, for a process driven change agency, which I perceive is what the World Jat foundation needs to become.

Respects Regards
Amit Dahiyabadshah




Neeraj Vedwan (Mar 06, 2004 10:08 a.m.):
I think the Convention is a step in the right direction, and since it is a point in an evolving process, it can always expand/modify its agenda to be of direct relevance to our community. Constructive feedback and comments should thus not only be tolerated but actively solicited.

However, I have a humble suggestion to make. In connection with the mission statement of Jat Jyoti under whose ambit this convention was organized (?), I find the use of the word "Aryan" fraught with problems. There are several reasons for this and the mainly the problem arises because of the baggage that the word carries, not necessarily due to the intentions of the user(s).

The world Aryan takes us back to the Nazi propaganda about the superiority of some races (Germans, Hitler considered them pure Aryans, and the acme of human evolution, the "master race") vis-a-vis others, an ideology, which ultimately led to the holocaust and deaths of millions of innnocent people.

Do want to be associated with a word that has such inflammatory potential. This is all the more significant since we are terming ourselves "world"/International here. In the strictly Indian context, the word has different connotations (say, as in Arya Samaj), but I think it will be a marker of our intellectual maturity if we are alert to the consequences of our actions AND WORDS, as we go mainstream. Anyways, what's the significance of the word in terms of its meaning? How do you define it: in terms of geographic origin, outdated concept of "shared blood", or what?

In general, it is a good policy to stay away from theories that proclaim racial/ethnic superiority of a people/group, even implicitly. At best, the use of the word "Aryan" conveys a certain antiquated mindset, unfamiliar with the (serious) scholarship in the area of culture/history, and of its negative connotations, albeit unintentional. We definitely don't want to be misunderstood as being associated with groups like the "aryan brotherhood": white supremacist organizations in the US (most of them claim to be "aryan") or left with the (defensive) task of explaining the differences to serious people.

[amitdahiya]

Dear Ravi,

The Day was divided into three parts. The opening session was on current affairs and the need for unity on the eve of the worlds biggest democratic elections. naturally the speakers were Choudhary Som Pal Ji a distinguished former memebr of the the Planning commission and an important econmic thinker on development. He has been just been appointed Chairman of the single most important commission in the history of independent India i.e. The Commission on Farmers.

His presentation was one that sought to place in perspective the vast spread and its historical, economic and political potential.

Smt Vasundhara Raje Scindia Chief minister of Rajasthan and The maharani Sahiba of erstwhile Royal Jat House of Dholpur made a simple elegant presentation acknowledging the importance of the Jat vote and the need to bring the community forward in every respect.

Shri Sahib Singh Verma the Hon Minister for Labour made some incisive comments on the political realities of the day. His analogy of the success of Maya devi went largely mis reported by the press which misconstrued his point to mean that he was recommending her as arole model for the jat community.

I shall detail the other sessions in a seperate postand also try to post more details.

Amit Dahiya



Ravi Chaudhary (Mar 06, 2004 09:34 a.m.):
What was the attendence ?

Who were the speakers ?( thanks Amit for telling us you were one of them Well done)

What papers were presented ?

What resolutions were passed ?

What initiatives were set in motion?

Was there a youth wing created ?

These are standard questions, which people would like information on.


Now Rome was not built in a day, but firts steps are important,

Is Piyush in Delhi ?

Why not coopt him ( if he is willing and ha sthe time)to help answer some of these queries.

We need a communication coordinator, for this nascent organization, whose only function should be to provide communication.

Ideally it should be a full time , paid position.

Hopefully Mr Rajnish Gehlawat will return to this forum and help

Ravi

[amitdahiya]

I think we need to wait for the World Jat Foundation to
finish transcribing the presentations if they were recorded. Perhaps Rajnish Gehlawat would be in a better position to reply to Ravi's well structured request for information. In the meanwhile I am arranging to scan and post my presentation on an Interactive Rural Development Index for your information and comments.



[quote]Ravi Chaudhary (Mar 06, 2004 09:34 a.m.):
What was the attendence ? etc...

[gehlawat]

Notice To Mr. Amit Dahiya, Kakroi, Sonepat

From: World Jat Aryan Foundation (Registered)
248, Ramakrishna Vihar, Plot no. 29, 8th Avenue, I.P. Extension,
Delhi-110092, India
Phone: 91-11-22503766 Mobile No.: 91-11-33136443 Fax No.: 91-11-22510088
Email: worldjat@hotmail.com

It is hereby informed that: - Views expressed by Mr. Amit Dahiya (alias Dahiyabadshah) are to be considered his personal observations and in no way can they be construed as official report/comments/statements from 'World Jat Aryan Foundation'.

Mr. Amit Dahiya may not use the expression 'official spokesperson' of the Foundation. Any such use is illegal and amounts to misrepresentation.

Management




Amit Dahiyabadshah (Mar 08, 2004 09:09 a.m.):
Dear Ravi,

The Day was divided into three parts. The opening session was on current affairs and the need for unity on the eve of the worlds biggest democratic elections. naturally the speakers were Choudhary Som Pal Ji a distinguished former memebr of the the Planning commission and an important econmic thinker on development. He has been just been appointed Chairman of the single most important commission in the history of independent India i.e. The Commission on Farmers.

His presentation was one that sought to place in perspective the vast spread and its historical, economic and political potential.

Smt Vasundhara Raje Scindia Chief minister of Rajasthan and The maharani Sahiba of erstwhile Royal Jat House of Dholpur made a simple elegant presentation acknowledging the importance of the Jat vote and the need to bring the community forward in every respect.

Shri Sahib Singh Verma the Hon Minister for Labour made some incisive comments on the political realities of the day. His analogy of the success of Maya devi went largely mis reported by the press which misconstrued his point to mean that he was recommending her as arole model for the jat community.

I shall detail the other sessions in a seperate postand also try to post more details.

Amit Dahiya



Ravi Chaudhary (Mar 06, 2004 09:34 a.m.):
What was the attendence ?

Who were the speakers ?( thanks Amit for telling us you were one of them Well done)

What papers were presented ?

What resolutions were passed ?

What initiatives were set in motion?

Was there a youth wing created ?

These are standard questions, which people would like information on.


Now Rome was not built in a day, but firts steps are important,

Is Piyush in Delhi ?

Why not coopt him ( if he is willing and ha sthe time)to help answer some of these queries.

We need a communication coordinator, for this nascent organization, whose only function should be to provide communication.

Ideally it should be a full time , paid position.

Hopefully Mr Rajnish Gehlawat will return to this forum and help

Ravi

[rkumar]

[quote]Rajnish (Mar 16, 2004 05:51 a.m.):
Notice To Mr. Amit Dahiya, Kakroi, Sonepat

From: World Jat Aryan Foundation (Registered)
248, Ramakrishna Vihar, Plot no. 29, 8th Avenue, I.P. Extension,
Delhi-110092, India
Phone: 91-11-22503766 Mobile No.: 91-11-33136443 Fax No.: 91-11-22510088
Email: worldjat@hotmail.com

It is hereby informed that: - Views expressed by Mr. Amit Dahiya (alias Dahiyabadshah) are to be considered his personal observations and in no way can they be construed as official report/comments/statements from 'World Jat Aryan Foundation'.

Mr. Amit Dahiya may not use the expression 'official spokesperson' of the Foundation. Any such use is illegal and amounts to misrepresentation.

Management
[quote][b]

Dear Shri Rajnish ji,

I wonder what made you post this message ? I have gone through all the postings by Mr Amit Dahiya on the subject and nowhere he has claimed to be the spokperson of the Jat Foundation. At Jatland every member has the freedom to express his/ her views on any event of interest to Jats and as far as I can understand, this is what Amit has done. Your notice sounds like as if he has broken some copyright by informing the members about the proceedings of the convention. I do not know how other members feel about your posting this notice, but I certainly feel it like intimidating a fellow member who in his right spirit has posted his observations.

Regards
Rajendra

[sanjaychhikara]

Kalkhunde saab, u said it 100% right, i fully agree with u

Rajendra Kumar Kalkhunde (Mar 16, 2004 08:16 a.m.):
[quote]Rajnish (Mar 16, 2004 05:51 a.m.):
Notice To Mr. Amit Dahiya, Kakroi, Sonepat

From: World Jat Aryan Foundation (Registered)
248, Ramakrishna Vihar, Plot no. 29, 8th Avenue, I.P. Extension,
Delhi-110092, India
Phone: 91-11-22503766 Mobile No.: 91-11-33136443 Fax No.: 91-11-22510088
Email: worldjat@hotmail.com

It is hereby informed that: - Views expressed by Mr. Amit Dahiya (alias Dahiyabadshah) are to be considered his personal observations and in no way can they be construed as official report/comments/statements from 'World Jat Aryan Foundation'.

Mr. Amit Dahiya may not use the expression 'official spokesperson' of the Foundation. Any such use is illegal and amounts to misrepresentation.

Management
[quote][b]

Dear Shri Rajnish ji,

I wonder what made you post this message ? I have gone through all the postings by Mr Amit Dahiya on the subject and nowhere he has claimed to be the spokperson of the Jat Foundation. At Jatland every member has the freedom to express his/ her views on any event of interest to Jats and as far as I can understand, this is what Amit has done. Your notice sounds like as if he has broken some copyright by informing the members about the proceedings of the convention. I do not know how other members feel about your posting this notice, but I certainly feel it like intimidating a fellow member who in his right spirit has posted his observations.

Regards
Rajendra

[jagmohan]

Dear All,

In one of the posts, post No 6 I think, this is what Mr Amit wrote

"Amit Dahiyabadshah (Mar 06, 2004 07:46 a.m.):

Dear Ajmer,Ravi and Piyush

I was given the opportunity to serve the event as its spokesman and also to present the Keynote address....

Yours thoughtfully
Amit"

Mr Rajnish and Mr Amit can only clarify the point.

Thanks,

Lt Col JS Malik (Retd)

[amitdahiya]

Dear Col Malik,
5 days before the event I was requested in writing by this organisation on its letter head to serve as the Spokesman of the 2nd world jat Aryan Foundation.

Although the Stadium was booked almost 6 months in advance this short notice made a difficult task even more challenging. I dont know who this character Rajnish is or even how he is connected with this event. But in that short period I was able to obtain prominent coverage of the event in National and regional media going by the flood of emails and telephone calls that I have received.

It is true that I did not project certain points thatwere put before me because i felt they served only some narrow, selfish and short sighted interests. I refused for instance to use the term Aryan because it is pedantic, sectarian and limits both the scope and relevance of the kaum in a world of new opportunities and emerging identities.

There were a few other matters but i have chosen not to dwell on them and instead to focus only on the positive aspects of the event. Master Rajneesh is on very thin ice here and were he not a complete stranger to me I would deal with him in a suitable manner. But Jatland is not the forum for that and I have no intention of allowing him to vitiate the atmosphere by this uncouth attempt at bluff and bluster. He has insulted members seeking information about the event on this site for their curiosity and certainly I have counselled him strongly against this in a private post. If need be I shall have the letter scanned and posted in reply to his shabby little notice that seeks only to draw attention to himself by using the little Dug dugi or damroo. But this was an international event and as members of the Kaum we have a right and aresponsibility to attend and comment and report on what we saw, with or without any letter of authority.

My posts on this subject speak for me in this regard and I need not elaborate beyond the limits of decorum and dignity demanded by this site and the Kaum.If I have not done as I have said in this regard either in letter or spirit Iam prepared to offer an unqualified apology. But how or why doesone apologise to some one one doesnt even know or recognise.
Good wishes and respects
Amit

Lt Col Jagmohan Malik (Retd) (Mar 17, 2004 01:20 a.m.):
Dear All,

In one of the posts, post No 6 I think, this is what Mr Amit wrote

"Amit Dahiyabadshah (Mar 06, 2004 07:46 a.m.):

Dear Ajmer,Ravi and Piyush

I was given the opportunity to serve the event as its spokesman and also to present the Keynote address....

Yours thoughtfully
Amit"

Mr Rajnish and Mr Amit can only clarify the point.

Thanks,

Lt Col JS Malik (Retd)

[mbamal]

Amit,

I agree with you. and thanks a lot for a very balanced and informative reporting on conference. But as said in the earlier post apparently u used the word 'offcial spokesperson' somewhere. Anyway it doesnt matter if u were the official spokesperson or not, wat matters is that you did exactly what was to be done. That is to share information, opinions and observations. Jatland is a forum for interaction and not for sending notices and fighting legal and political battles.

Mandeep

[rkumar]

I fully agree with the views expressed by Mandeep that Jatland is not the forum to serve notices and ofcourse not the forum to use inapproprite words for members. This is a forum for meaningful interaction. May be the moderators of site do not let such issues be brought to the site.

Rajendra

[jagmohan]

Dear Amit,

Thanks for the clarification.

I agree with the views expressed by Rajendra Ji & mandeep Ji.

Let us all look forward and do something positive. We all have a right to comment on what we see, hear, read and talk and no one should question this right. Differences are ought to be there in perception but then mature individuals know where to draw the line.

Thanks and regards,

Lt Col JS Malik (Retd)

[amitdahiya]

Mandeep,
The only reason why I am not posting the scanned copy of the letter officially appointing me as the spokesman for the conference is because it achieves nothing to prove that some one is using this forum to tell a blatant barefaced lie instead of doing something useful with this space.
Regards
Amit


Mandeep Bamal (Mar 18, 2004 01:50 p.m.):
Amit,

I agree with you. and thanks a lot for a very balanced and informative reporting on conference. But as said in the earlier post apparently u used the word 'offcial spokesperson' somewhere. Anyway it doesnt matter if u were the official spokesperson or not, wat matters is that you did exactly what was to be done. That is to share information, opinions and observations. Jatland is a forum for interaction and not for sending notices and fighting legal and political battles.

Mandeep

[ravichaudhary]

[quote]Amit Dahiyabadshah (Mar 18, 2004 10:42 p.m.):
Mandeep,
The only reason why I am not posting the scanned copy of the letter officially appointing me as the spokesman for the conference is because it achieves nothing

***********

Official or not is somewhat irrelevant.

In our community everyone has a right to think, participate and contribute, and to be treated as an equal, irrespective of personal wealth and status.

At this point,in the issue of clarity, you should post the letter, as evidence, and the issue should then be closed.

Otherwise someone will raise the issue, a year from now, and we can all revisit the issue and waste more time.

The overall issues facing our community are too great to be bogged down or be sidetracked.

People have different ways of contributing.

One could even ask what is the need for a new organization- the World Jat Aryan Organization ?.

There is the Jat Mahasabha, the SarvKhap of Haryana which is 1,500 years old.

It had its departments of culture, education,( defence- now part of greater Bharat).

The Gurukul system evolved from that. Their schools languish without funds.

The infrastructure is already there.

If we can ( and we should) swallow our petty egos.

Why not build on something, with a great tradition and history, rather than invent something new ?


Ravi

[amitdahiya]

Ravi,
Point taken and anyway since this crude notice I should not be bound by any explicit or even implicit committment to confidentiality. The need for something new instead of revitalising some traditional institution is simply that the greatest crisis facing the kaum i feel is that of Frozen Creativity.

To work around it would be hard enough in anew set up but perhaps impossible in an instution where peoples are reinforced by tradition and even dead habits.

My parents were both snaathaks of Gurukul Kangri , my father was literally raised from infancy by Swami Shraddhanad Ji at Purani Bhoomi, my maternal grandfather Prof Lal Chand served there as professor and principal. The Mahasabha is another case in point and already there are two clones of one frozen organisation. I am saying this after attending several meets where not a single suggestion for change or development was acted upon.

A new approach of a conceptual organisation willing to work with every one by providing research based solutions, reference, conectivity, facilitation, and communication catalysts may posssibly serve our purpose better in the mid term and definitely in the long term.

Your comments pl.

Regards
Amit



Ravi Chaudhary (Mar 19, 2004 03:22 p.m.):
[quote]Amit Dahiyabadshah (Mar 18, 2004 10:42 p.m.):
Mandeep,
The only reason why I am not posting the scanned copy of the letter officially appointing me as the spokesman for the conference is because it achieves nothing

***********

Official or not is somewhat irrelevant.

In our community everyone has a right to think, participate and contribute, and to be treated as an equal, irrespective of personal wealth and status.

At this point,in the issue of clarity, you should post the letter, as evidence, and the issue should then be closed.

Otherwise someone will raise the issue, a year from now, and we can all revisit the issue and waste more time.

The overall issues facing our community are too great to be bogged down or be sidetracked.

People have different ways of contributing.

One could even ask what is the need for a new organization- the World Jat Aryan Organization ?.

There is the Jat Mahasabha, the SarvKhap of Haryana which is 1,500 years old.

It had its departments of culture, education,( defence- now part of greater Bharat).

The Gurukul system evolved from that. Their schools languish without funds.

The infrastructure is already there.

If we can ( and we should) swallow our petty egos.

Why not build on something, with a great tradition and history, rather than invent something new ?


Ravi

[rkumar]

Dear Friends,

I thought I have had my say on the topic. After reading the latest India today, I have no option but to alert every jat that there is not much time at our disposal if we want to find any place in the race to progress in modern India. If we keep debating and criticising each other, please be sure that we will be living at the alms which future goverments will give to those below poverty line. High time we reach to every village and form honest and sincere groups who are not looking for exposue and power, but for the upliftment of the community. India today is talking of becoming a developed country by 2020. High time we take a serious look if we Jats are poised to be there along with rest of the nation or preferably much before. We can not wait for Gram Panchayats to take us there or the state Goverments to take there. We have to get active right now if our future generations have to keep their heads high. As told many times, its not the resources which will bring this change, but our honest and the clear headedness in our objective. We do not need leaders who can give long bhasans, we need those who can toil among our masses and help them see the future ahead and how to reach there. Time is to act and share the experience with each other. Let these discussions change to repoting the progress on various fronts. To me this is like an emergency where we have to rush with an ambulence and with all the medicines....and not sitting away from the crisis and just praying for its welbeing.

Rajendra

[ravichaudhary]

Rajendra Kumar Kalkhunde (Mar 20, 2004 11:39 a.m.):
Dear Friends,To me this is like an emergency where we have to rush with an ambulence and with all the medicines....and not sitting away from the crisis and just praying for its welbeing.

Rajendra

Agreed

Ravi

[mbamal]

The Development of a country like India can be brought about only on the basis of technological advancement and skilled and educated people. Education, Vocational training and technology transfer are the only ways to improve the living standard of Jats in India and Haryana. 70% of people are engaged in agriculture in India. Most of the Jats are still well off. But entrepeneurship must be encouraged in Jats. Setting up some kind of regional indubator to encourage Jats to implement their ideas can be one of the solutions.and also there must be a change in attitude of Jats. I have rarely come across a Jat businessman. Most of Jats I know are in Army or Police of employed by public sector. Since agriculture alone can not support the community for long, it is essential to bring about some kind of a change in attitude of youth, specially in rural areas. In punjabis if someone is not good at studies, he is immediately taken off studies and made to provide a helping hand in the family business. But a Jat never bothers to do these so called "menial" jobs of running a shop or any other similar profession. I am not saying that Jats should do start running a job, but i mean to say that Jats should take advantage of the development thats happening now days in India and should be more open to other possiblities. Haryana should have a growth rate of around 10% if it to become developed by 2020. Nowdays its around 5%. I have no idea how this all is going to happen but I am gald that some very nice and realistic ideas are being discussed on this forum.

[amitdahiya]

Despite the difficulties, challenges and indeed frustrations of organising such meetings, the need of the day is to meet more, organise better, facilitate properly and finally to reach formal written conclusions with time lines and plans of action, where ownership of processes is clear and practiced.

Amit

[opchoudhary07]

Hello Guys,

There are positive comments and negative comments about this Jat convention held in Delhi. Everybody has the right to express the opinion, but it should be thoughtful opinion, not just off the cuff remarks like it was political motivated convention. Human beings are political animal and we can never separate the political motive from this kind of events. The larger issue is how we JATS around the world come on one platform and get our collective force in right direction. That right direction could be education, administration, farming related issues, and larger then all how we control our own destiny. If we have earned tons of money and fame, it would still not be sufficient until we play a significant role and control the political platform at a national level, state & local level.

Before we make scanty comments, we should look within ourselves and examine, what we have done for the community & family. It's easy to make comments, but very hard to perform duties at such platforms. Guys, it's not easy.

I was in India during this convention and could not participate due to my business appointments. My father did participate in this event and he had lot of praises for the function. I did talk to Prof. Gehlawat 2 days before the convention and I can tell you he has put more then 100% of his energy in organizing this function. He himself was running around to make all the arrangements with very little help from our own community. I did whatever help remotely I could have done, but I felt the pain Prof. Gehlawat has taken and organized such a wonderful function. As a community we should work towards coming closer. Questions like are Muslim & Sikh Jats should be included in such Jat gatherings should not be the major issues in our brothers mind. People have the individual identity, community's collective identity, community's particular religion might have different identity for themselves, but when we talk about our history and historical roots, we all Jats have same traits and background, so we should stand together collectively on such national platforms and work towards our progress.

There was political representation from BJP side, the visible stalwart leader Mr. Sahib Singh Verma was present. Our community leaders should make efforts to bring other party leaders collectively. We should think it as a community event, not an event organized by a party. Participation from people from all walks of like, like professional, politics, administration, agriculture, & scientific community.

The representation or attendance would go up as it becomes more popular and more people get active in coming years. It's a good start.

Thanks,

OP Choudhary




Piyush Tomar (Mar 04, 2004 07:48 a.m.):
Dear Sir,
It was a poor gethering out there..the motive was only political!!

[ravichoudhary]

I am just cutting and pasting one of the replies of the chain below.
I belong to a business (Finance company, Hotel , Resturant ++++farm house hahahaha JAT hai to farm house to hoga hi hoga family and so is everyone in my khandan.

C L Verma ( DLF, Running a well known FAN company and make tullo pump and motor for coolers) is one of the richest Jat in India.

Well I have business preposition for all of you's. Well atleast help all the JAT members of JATLAND group and their families in reducing the phone bills for international calls.

4-5 Rs CALL from India to USA or AUSTRALIA or CANADA or SINGAPORE as a example.
calls can easily be made from anywhere to anywhere.

I roughly make 10 % monthly residual ongoing commission on hardwork done once in my life.

For more details browse my website and my phone numbers and email ID are listed below.

http://www.1cellnet.com/ideachat

Superb voice QUALITY

Regards
Ravi Choudhary (BASED in AUSTRALIA)
celnet@optunet.com.au
ravi.choudhary@citigroup.com
+ 61 412 130180

So please don't say JATS cannot do business we can we will but for some unknown reason we are not trying.

The Development of a country like India can be brought about only on the basis of technological advancement and skilled and educated people. Education, Vocational training and technology transfer are the only ways to improve the living standard of Jats in India and Haryana. 70% of people are engaged in agriculture in India. Most of the Jats are still well off. But entrepeneurship must be encouraged in Jats. Setting up some kind of regional indubator to encourage Jats to implement their ideas can be one of the solutions.and also there must be a change in attitude of Jats. I have rarely come across a Jat businessman. Most of Jats I know are in Army or Police of employed by public sector. Since agriculture alone can not support the community for long, it is essential to bring about some kind of a change in attitude of youth, specially in rural areas.

[mbamal]

Ravi,

I never said that Jats cant do business. I said that they should be encouraged to look beyond public sector and agricultural employment.