The Futile Debacle about Hindu Jats vs. Non-Hindu Jats

[shokeen123]

If we are obsessed about secular humanism, why not rename the site something like "Humanity.com” so that we are morally correct and more accepting of all other regional or cultural philosophies? We have quite a good representation here of a variety of hypocrites! On one hand we are a 'cordial bunch,' on the bandwagon to accept anyone and everyone bearing a Jat title from around the world; yet, a sample of Jatland members (of varying age groups) reveals utter intolerance for other cultures, especially with regard to important lifelong decisions such as matrimony? To that end we have witnessed a tug of war of the die-hard fanatics from both sides. Aren't we on a collision course with our sense of morality, and or humanity? Do we want to associate with morality or identity? In either case we are compromising on some aspect of humanity and morality, by excluding one or the other! There is no pristine end in sight for this polemic argument. Therefore leaving this site alone for a pure social interaction among the homogeneous Jats (Hindu) would fit the bill. It's okay to allow Muslim Jats on the site but lo we have no business marrying our daughter to Mr. Hussain-Jamal-Abubaker. Nope, those 3 names are alien! Jatland Matrimonial Section anyone? Those who are promulgating the integration agenda should first visit the matrimonial ads, and if they say “caste no bar” or the ad doesn’t mention 3 gotras (self, mother’s and grandmothers), lets embrace the Sikhs and the Muslims? Don’t tell me you are going to integrate these groups to only chitchat and keep them at bay for all else? We are so not so broad-minded just yet…

Preference for exclusion of a culture or a sub sect of a population for the purpose of homogeneous cohesiveness cannot be equated with inhumanity; such parallels cannot be drawn from a few pseudo superficial common traits. Terms like 'Castes' or 'Religions' are not mutually exclusive concepts. Religion is more than caste. You cannot be a Hindu and not denounce non-vegetarianism (killing of the cow). Similarly try asking a Muslim Jat to worship in your sacred temple, or ask him to accept Prasad, you will get first hand crash course on religious intolerance. It is not so much about the similarities that exist among Jats, as much it is about the dissimilarities in our outlooks of stark contrasts. At the heart of the matter are major religious differences that separate us from any other Jat, Sikh or Muslim! I get greeted with the exact same distaste from interacting with my international non-Hindu professional colleagues (some of whom are Pakistani and Sikhs) even in a modern and culturally neutral society as I witnessed some two decades ago as a Jat village girl, in a culturally mixed dorm. How so? It is because people tend to have regionalistic attitude based on generally held perceptions. In the dorm the very people who were closest to my own culture (Punjabis/Sikhs) made the distinction. They perceived me as a 'Jat' and thus automatically backward. In an international set up the same (Urdu speaking, curry eating Pakistanis) perceive me as an Indian first a Hindu second and no one ever talks about being a Jat! Why such perceptions exist is a multifaceted question, but the fact that they exist can't be ignored. Sure we Indians and Pakistanis mingle with each other at social gatherings, and yes we even buy air tickets from agents from both sides, but that's about it! I have been fortunate to have lived in Muslim countries where "anything beef was sacred, and 'anything Hindu was worthy of hatred. Did I coin such phrases, no! Unfortunately that's reality... I have no problem respecting other religions and other humans but accepting them as having similar philosophies will be like comparing apples and oranges!

You think I sound like an illiterate condemning humanity; perhaps so, but I have no problem being misunderstood in this instance, go ahead brand me as one, I would love to hold my head high living with convictions than to fly under the radar by not saying something that I don’t agree with. And all I am saying is that the word Jat alone doesn’t bind us culturally. My ignorance here stemmed from personal experiences, where I was considered a 'nobody' and treated differently based on my religion. I was 'Hindu,' first an 'Indian' second in a country with predominantly Muslim population. Give me one good reason to love such hateful minds or to mingle with them as one (apart from the Gandhian theory to offer my other cheek when humiliated)? No, can't do! I was a neutral entity and always a human being first until I got this heavy dose of regionalism and religion. I have compassion for the mankind and I am still able to practice humanity, however, to what extent and why I feel more comfortable interacting with Hindu Jats has nothing to do with exclusion of other sub-sect of a population, I just feel I am different. May be their prejudiced religious upbringing has no room for acceptance of others?

Many who have asserted their regional ties to Hindu Jats have the right to do so. My allegiance is to India first as an Indian, and I have no hesitation in associating myself with Hindu Jats having grown up as one. If such differences didn't impact the everyday mundane life we will not have IoK or PoK, Chechnya, Serbia, or madrasas in every city of Pakistan? We will be one big happy nation. Did anyone know the restaurants at the United Nations cater to the delicate palates of people from all parts of world? Everything Jewish is not kosher; there are ethnic, cultural and religious differences no matter where you go. For heaven's sake let us not cry wolf about the Brits again! We have long been liberated! And why drag the Rajput factor into it? So we want to respond to the 'cry for help?' Let us uplift the downtrodden within our own community and our own country first, who so ever he/she is, without preference to caste creed or religion before crossing the borders for the sake of Jat fanaticism! Ethnic cleansing has taken thousands of lives in the Balkan states. Religious fanaticism is murderous and shall not be tolerated as morally correct, however, some cultures are unable to separate philosophy of life from religion. I am in favor of humanity in any shape or form, but intolerant of religious degradation. If I can be tolerant enough to think of a Mosque as a place of worship and thus sacred, so can a Muslim? There are some deep-rooted philosophical differences that cannot be bridged by plain talk! The cultural homogeneity we are seeking is beyond the breadth and scope of this site.

PS: I think the cow dung analogy in another thread was misplaced intellectual exercise. “There is dignity in any kind of labor” be it baking cow dung cakes in a village or manufacturing computer chips in Bangalore…

[ravichaudhary]

Education, will determine, whether the Jat girls and boys, in the villages can escape what is increasingly a marginalized life, with low income, no heath care, and no future for their next generation to come

They are falling further and further behind.

Lack of education = poverty( collecting cow dung cakes)

Education = go to Bangalore and command a six figure income.

Given the above two choices which would you reccomend back in the village?.

Ravi'
The thing about dignity of labour is best left to the religious hacks and the garibi hatao slogan mongers.

There is nothing dignified about living in poverty

It applies to all, Jats and non Jats.

If I am little direct, please understand I intend no offence to you or anyone else.

Ravi

[ravichaudhary]

[quote]Sujata (Mar 07, 2004 11:55 a.m.):
If we are obsessed about secular humanism,

***************
Things like marriage etc are personal things.

How many Jat members are there on this list, whose sons or daughters have come back with a spouse from another community, - English, American, white, Christian, Guyanese, bania etc

Should they , and their sons/daughters be banned ?

No one is suggesting that anyone enter into a matrimonial alliance with a Muslim Jat or a sikh Jat family.

But by trying to keep them away, can you really succeed in keeping every non Jat away from your family ?.

Then what are you really trying to protect ?

A Jat way of life ?

The village life is gone forever, it is following the same direction as any agricultural society , which is in transistion to an industrialized society.

There was a time when those is agriculture were rich.

Why?

They owned the means of production of wealth

The industrial age destroyed that.

Those who stayed , and clung to the past, insular, and ingnored the winds of change, declined economically

Those who adapted, to the new ways and the new opportunites, not only survived, but became successful.

Change is here, and the rate of change is accelerating.

To me if I can get even one Jat family to change, and accept the new realty, and educate their kids and get them out or subsitence farming, I will have succeeded.

They also need to be taught the survival skills, and be provided the support structures.

I get calls, e mails from total strangers, who I help as best as I can to adapt to this western world. I am sure many other do that do, In fact I know many who do much more.

How on earth can we teach someone survival skills, and provide support structures to them if we ourselves are afraid of dialogue with others?

Ravi

[bnashier]

One of the questions, with which this entire discussion started, was whether to “allow” Muslim Jats on this site. It is plain that a yes or no answer to this question is totally inconsequential simply because there won’t be an iota of difference in anyone’s life, or even in one night’s sleep.

The following may be a more serious and meaning exercise. Let us throw some light on the purpose of this site- Jatland.com. Among some other purposes, I would like to assume that we wish to learn from each other, interact with each other, exchange ideas and indulge in discussions on social issues that affect our folks, and very importantly; try to be of help to our people for a better life. Well, are we really learning anything? Are we really cleaning our house? I am not saying that we aren’t. I am simply raising questions. Have we really understood these castes and religions? Have we really understood the meaning of humanity? Have we become mature enough to accept and live in harmony with people of different philosophies? I know that some of these questions are hard, and for right reasons. If you can only think about these questions, let alone find answers, you might agree with me in that a mere yes/no answer to allowing, say, Muslim jats on site has no value.

[shokeen123]

This is in response to Ravi's two responses:

Education will determine, whether the Jat girls and boys, in the villages can escape what is increasingly a marginalized life, with low income, no heath care, and no future for their next generation to come. They are falling further and further behind.

Lack of education = poverty (collecting cow dung cakes)?
Education = go to Bangalore and command a six figure income.
Given the above two choices which would you recommend back in the village?The thing about dignity of labor is best left to the religious hacks and the garibi hatao slogan mongers.There is nothing dignified about living in poverty. It applies to all, Jats and non-Jats.

Excuse me brother, I baked cow dung cakes as a kid, and I now make six figure income, in US dollars! You could be born in utter poverty and yes amount to being a productive and successful citizen. That’s not at all a far-fetched idea! Poverty is an equal opportunity phenomenon, Jats or non-Jats. And yes, I agree people should take measures to uplift themselves and get empowered, but what the word “Jatland” has to do with such an improvement? It would be justified under a different banner, having a broader concept like “Rural Upliftment.” Such a site should be open to knowledgeable scholars from all parts of the world to broaden our knowledge, especially to know what might have worked in which part of the world, let’s say in farming, or family planning? As far as the “Garibi Hatao” slogan is concerned, I am naïve, never been interested in such wasteful exercises.

Things like marriage etc are personal things.

Aha! There you go! Escapism is a poor substitute for courage. I call this hypocrisy. Why everything becomes so sacred with regard to matrimony? What’s wrong with marrying a decent human being that happens to be compatible and can also broaden your horizon? I would like to say that circumstances like poverty and wealth are also personal. At least I don’t consider myself the Messiah of the world with regard to wealth and an empty vessel when confronted with morality of a different kind!

How many Jat members are there on this list, whose sons or daughters have come back with a spouse from another community, - English, American, white, Christian, Guyanese, bania etc.

Actually, I know quite a few, right here on Jatland! I know a friend who has English daughter-in law, a friend who is married to a Gayanese-Indian wife, a friend married to a White American, another to a Black American. A friend’s daughter is married to a South Indian, another one’s to a Bania, but I have no business minding their preferences. Bottom-line is that we are not debating the matrimony as a right. I am implying much deeper understanding of humanity. If we integrate people with different backgrounds on this site just to broaden our horizon for upliftment, then something is a miss with regard to other moral and human aspects. Shouldn’t we be able to open our hearts and minds and yes, that does include matrimony?

No one is suggesting that anyone enter into a matrimonial alliance with a Muslim Jat or a sikh Jat family.

So then what should we exchange notes on? Weather?

But by trying to keep them away, can you really succeed in keeping every non-Jat away from your family? Then what are you really trying to protect? A Jat way of life?

I have more non-Jat friends than Jats, including Muslims, Jews, Christians and Sikhs. But none of them understand what “seet and rabadi” means, or “kothali and sindhara” means, this is where I get to interact with my own kind who understand my own language. No, neither they, nor I can protect anyone’s way of life. They have their own group that they feel comfortable with. Lives cannot be molded by transient, spur of the moment anecdotes on things from the Web. Lives are made and planned through a structure called family unit.

The village life is gone forever; it is following the same direction as any agricultural society, which is in transition to an industrialized society. There was a time when those is agriculture were rich. Why?They owned the means of production of wealth. The industrial age destroyed that. Those who stayed, and clung to the past, insular, and ignored the winds of change, declined economically, those who adapted, to the new ways and the new opportunities, not only survived, but also became successful.
Change is here, and the rate of change is accelerating.

Village life has gone forever for some Jats, but not for every Jat. However, it is encouraging to see a lot many Jat kids in professions that were unheard of before. To empower one economically one doesn’t need to interact with Sikh or Muslim Jats. However, I am sure once someone has sound education you will find them at par with citizens with high caliber native or international.

To me if I can get even one Jat family to change, and accept the new realty, and educate their kids and get them out or subsistence farming, I will have succeeded. They also need to be taught the survival skills, and be provided the support structures. I get calls, e-mails from total strangers, who I help as best as I can to adapt to this western world. I am sure many other do that do, In fact I know many that do much more. How on earth can we teach someone survival skills, and provide support structures to them if we ourselves are afraid of dialogue with others.

There is umpteenth number of ways to broaden one’s horizon than to learn from one Website? How on earth can I broaden my horizon by interacting with only Jat-Sikhs and Jat-Muslims? Why not interact with Jews and Christians, Vietnamese and Chinese? There are Websites with science, farming and technology to teach people survival skills? People who are on this site have already survived through education and parental support; they don’t need such interaction. The ones you are implying to improve are back home, in villages! We have been so far only preaching to the Choir.

By officially inviting comments under two separate headings is one way to exhibit the underlying discomfort expressed openly that may never have otherwise surfaced our minds! Some things are best left alone because there is no solution for them and they can never bring harmony.

[ravichaudhary]

Does discussion bother you that much ?


I apologise

Ravi

[anilkc]

Just my 2 cent:

Real Education = Make 6 figures dollar salary in my village (and collect cattle ****) = Real elevation in std of living

[jagmohan]

Dear Ravi,

(Though I have posted this already on the other thread but since the issue is being discussed here too, I am taking the liberty of cut-paste)

Thanks for quoting my earlier mail. And I am no visionary. I am a simple JAT. I was born in a village and was lucky to have studied in a Sainik School very far from home (In Karnataka State). I got luckier when I was commissioned in the Jammu and Kashmir Light Infantry. For your information all Jawans of this regiment are recruited only from the state of J&K only. The officers are from all over the country. I have been indeed grateful to God all this while and more so because I got an opportunity to pray in Mandir -Maszid-Gurudwara (popularly called MMG in the regiment) for 21 years. I know more about Islam than many Moslems.
However, all that is my personal experience which I share with others to bring about an acceptnace that there is one God or Power and differents ways to get there. But does everyone think so? Not my Muslim friends.

I am now working in Mumbai and live in a predominantly Muslim neighbourhood. There are two Masjids nearby. In fact I am woken up everuday by 'Azan' and I take it that I have also marked my presence to the Almighty. One day I went to the Masjid and asked the Maulvi whether I can attend Namaz? I did not tell him who I was, but since I have grown 'French Cut', he may have thought that I was a Muslim. He said why not. Then I told him I was a Hindu. He nearly fainted and polietly refused me.

What I am trying to get to is a very simple point. Let us first make sure that we learn to communicate within our own community and then have grand plans of integrating the Sikhs and Muslims. I am a very broadminded person but when it comes to my core beliefs about my 'Kaum' ie JATS (And I don't consider myself to be a Hindu. I am an Arya Samaji and a JAT), I have very extreme views.

I wish the Muslims and Sikhs all the happiness in thid world. Let them multiply as much as they wish. As an individual I am first concerned about my family, then my near and dear ones (many of them from different castes and creeds), then my Kaum and then the country. No Sir, I am a JAT first and then a Haryanvi and then an Indian. And when I was in the Army I was a soldier first and my religion was the religion of my Jawans. I know this might surprise a lot of people but then those are my beliefs. Today it has become fashionable to say 'I am an Indian' first and foremost, especially amongst those who have caused maximum damage to the very fabric of this country. These 'India Shining Wallas'. Let me first be a good son, husband, father brother and friend and then when time comes to give my life for the country, I would do so only when I see these 'Shinng Wallas first make sacrifices themselves (I am still on the reserve list). Let me first make a difference in the life of one JAT who is not related to me (though all JATS are supposed to be related), then I will think of integrating the Sikhs and Muslims. I know enough about then and don't want to learn more from then. My first priority is towards educating those poorest of the poor JATS who have been forgotton by their brethern who feel making chips in Bangalore is better than making cowdung cakes in villages.

Another point about Dr Sangwan's point that "Whoever marries a JAT, becomes a JAT". I don't think so. I don't have any relative abroad (have not tried to find out but there are many out there) and would like to know from those who have married white Americans or Europeans whether this is true. Have you made them JATNIS or they have made you, whatever?

Mr Ravi, I am very clear. I think the aim of this site is as written by Budh Nashier Bahi and Sujata Ji. Let us first make a difference to our own community and then think of others. Yes, those of us who feel the pangs of separation, please go ahead and become a Muslim or Sikh. Why not? Aren't we all JATS. And those who want to get educated, please do so but spare simple JATS like me.

Thanks and regards,

Lt Col JS Malik (Retd)

[manish_tomer]

I agree with Sujata.

Why do we have to play "welcome all" ? Why do we have this mindset that the more friends we have the better we are? So whenever we find even a glimpse of friendship we are all for it. Who knows muslim jats have their own site and so have the sikhs. but take my word they'll never let you in. but we are Big hearted always.

[amar0974]

Iss ka ta ek a tarika sa ke jo bhey membership ke leye apply kare usey Jatland ke 'Dictionary' ke meaning puchey jaye jo 90% sahi bataye usey ko jatland ka member banney ka adhikar ho phir wo chahey sikh ho ya muslim ho chahey hindu ho.

[danarambeerda]

Another point about Dr Sangwan's point that "Whoever marries a JAT, becomes a JAT". I don't think so. I don't have any relative abroad (have not tried to find out but there are many out there) and would like to know from those who have married white Americans or Europeans whether this is true. Have you made them JATNIS or they have made you, whatever?

Here is the issue i raised earlier about vasundhra raje schindiya whether she is jatni or not, but no one was with me, mostly members said she is jatni caz she got married with a jat.....and i am 100 % disagree on them, You are right col. sahab if any jat get married to any white girl would she be jat... no not at all...never...and the same thing with that lady too...

with best regards

[shokeen123]

Ravi Chaudhary (Mar 07, 2004 10:51 p.m.):
Does discussion bother you that much? I apologise Ravi

No, on the contrary I love discussions, but I have also read this somewhere:

"The truth isn't the truth until people believe you, and they can't believe you if they don't know what you're saying, and they can't know what you're saying if they don't listen to you, and they won't listen to you if you're not interesting, and you won't be interesting unless you say things imaginatively, originally, freshly(William Bernbach)."

When I write I try to maintain that fine balance in my posts. When it becomes obvious what direction the sentiment of the majority are one must heed other's advice. However, that doesn't nearly mean that one is following the mob or herd mentality! A distinction is to be made with extreme discretion as to when it is necessary to go with the mob.

[yvsgaawar]

Amardeep Bazaad (Mar 08, 2004 05:49 a.m.):
Iss ka ta ek a tarika sa ke jo bhey membership ke leye apply kare usey Jatland ke 'Dictionary' ke meaning puchey jaye jo 90% sahi bataye usey ko jatland ka member banney ka adhikar ho phir wo chahey sikh ho ya muslim ho chahey hindu ho.

Bhai Amardeep,
60% Jatland member baahar kar diye tune. I guess most Jatland member will fail if we implement this. I barely understand 50% of them.

[anujkumar]

Bazaad Sahab,

Bahoot sahee idea hai. Enterence Test Hona chahiye Jatland ke liye. Jinko nahee aate unko yaad kurne chahiye. :) Jo yaad bhee naa kur sakai hai unka bhee ilaz hai.. Donation se admission ho jaga!!



Amardeep Bazaad (Mar 08, 2004 05:49 a.m.):
Iss ka ta ek a tarika sa ke jo bhey membership ke leye apply kare usey Jatland ke 'Dictionary' ke meaning puchey jaye jo 90% sahi bataye usey ko jatland ka member banney ka adhikar ho phir wo chahey sikh ho ya muslim ho chahey hindu ho.

[sansanwalamit]

Mr. Baazad aapka idea ek dum fantastic hai, and aapki haazir jawaabi aur wittyness ka main kaafi time se fan hoon, aapne kaafi saari posts ko boring hone se bachaya hai.
and Anuj tera joke bhi bahut funny and realistic hai.
I hope everyone learns from this, and realizes that such discussions would not result in any fruit.
Who knows if I am not a Hindu Jat, I could be some sham for all you know I could be some bihari who lived for long in Katwria Sarai like so many of them do. And they do get to know about our culture.
Thus we should not bother about it anymore, if there is some Muslim or Sikh member here, or will be; truly they would not relate much to us and would not waste their time on this website.

[vimal]

Kal ko koi yeh mat kahna ke ab to sikh or muslim jats ko site par admission mil gaya hai, isliye haryanvi words naa use karo. Ya phir kahin hamme punjabi or urdu ke words bhi jat dictionary mei daalne na pad jaye.

[anilkc]

jatland ka paper bhi leak karne ka contract kisko diya jaye?

[amar0974]

Dhanyawad Bhai Gawaar,Anuj, Amit,Vimal, Anil. Bhai merey khayal se to Hamari jo ek alag Pehchan hai wo isey leye hai ke ham abhey tak apney Jado (Dharam, Sanskriti, Bhasha) se Judey huwey hain. Or wo(Sikh & Muslim) apney alag pehchan bananey ke leye hum se alag(dharma parivartan) ho gaye hai. Ab wo sikh ya musalmaan pehley hain Jat baad ma hain 1984 ke dango main jab sardaar marey ja rehey they tab kisey na ye nahi dekha tha ke wo Jat ha ya bania hai sirf ye dekha tha ke wo sikh hai.
Ar bhai rahi baat unhey site par nayota dene ke to bhai unhey to baad ma Nayotna pehley apney ghar walo(hindu jat) ko to shamil kar lo. Jatland ke 3-4 saal baney hone par bhey aaplog members ke sankhya jayada nahi badha paye ho. Pata chale ke itney bahaar ke aadmio ka nayota de deya ke ghar ke jeeman(membership) ke baat a dekhtey raha gey, Ara bhai pehla apna na jima do to-to ka, pher kuch bacha ga wo khawa dengay.

Kyon theek hai na???????

[uday]

100% right and practical.

Appney balak sadk aper dhakkey khan lag rahey hai. unki sudh te lende na.. aar Mandyasey \ Gaadey ne nyoten chal pade :-) :-D


Amardeep Bazaad (Mar 09, 2004 03:50 a.m.):
Dhanyawad Bhai Gawaar,Anuj, Amit,Vimal, Anil. Bhai merey khayal se to Hamari jo ek alag Pehchan hai wo isey leye hai ke ham abhey tak apney Jado (Dharam, Sanskriti, Bhasha) se Judey huwey hain. Or wo(Sikh & Muslim) apney alag pehchan bananey ke leye hum se alag(dharma parivartan) ho gaye hai. Ab wo sikh ya musalmaan pehley hain Jat baad ma hain 1984 ke dango main jab sardaar marey ja rehey they tab kisey na ye nahi dekha tha ke wo Jat ha ya bania hai sirf ye dekha tha ke wo sikh hai.
Ar bhai rahi baat unhey site par nayota dene ke to bhai unhey to baad ma Nayotna pehley apney ghar walo(hindu jat) ko to shamil kar lo. Jatland ke 3-4 saal baney hone par bhey aaplog members ke sankhya jayada nahi badha paye ho. Pata chale ke itney bahaar ke aadmio ka nayota de deya ke ghar ke jeeman(membership) ke baat a dekhtey raha gey, Ara bhai pehla apna na jima do to-to ka, pher kuch bacha ga wo khawa dengay.

Kyon theek hai na???????

[ravichaudhary]

Sujata (Mar 08, 2004 08:25 a.m.):
Ravi Chaudhary (Mar 07, 2004 10:51 p.m.):
Does discussion bother you that much? I apologise Ravi

No, on the contrary I love discussions, but I have also read this somewhere:

"The truth isn't the truth until people believe you, and they can't believe you if they don't know what you're saying, and they can't know what you're saying if they don't listen to you, and they won't listen to you if you're not interesting, and you won't be interesting unless you say things imaginatively, originally, freshly(William Bernbach)."

When I write I try to maintain that fine balance in my posts. When it becomes obvious what direction the sentiment of the majority are one must heed other's advice. However, that doesn't nearly mean that one is following the mob or herd mentality! A distinction is to be made with extreme discretion as to when it is necessary to go with the mob.



Re your comments.

There are two kinds of discussion in my view

1) A brainstorming, discussion, bouncing ideas around to achieve a better result.

The other

2) To get into a “I am right, you are wrong, inflammatory argument, scoring debating points.”

Frankly I have little time for the latter.

A couple of your comments struck me.

1) Re Muslim Jats, and what conversation you could have with a Muslim Jats.

You bring it down to marriage which I suggest is a personal thing, and that raises your ire, and which does not sit well with you.

Frankly if you and he wish to converse (if at all) and have nothing better to talk about than the weather, that is you will talk about - the weather.

Was it really appropriate on your part to make allegations of hypocrisy and escapism, because I suggest that marriage is a personal thing?

2) The other is suggesting that there is a mob mentality here and you wish to go along with it. Perhaps I read you wrong.

However which of the people who posted in this thread could you suggest have a mob mentality:

Col Malik
Amardeep Bazaad,
Anil Chaudhary
Anuj Kumar
Uday Dahiya
Amit
Vimal Kumar

To name a few


I see no mob mentality at all.

I see highly intelligent, and articulate people. They have passion, and strong views.


I see them expressing themselves, and questioning themselves, and their environment, and certainly not rushing to accept the first different view thrown at them.

I see leaders, not a mob

If I misunderstood you, all the above is superfluous anyway.

Best regards


Ravi

PS.

I would also prefer to see your writing talents better utilized in helping to change the perceptions of our community in the real world.

Help us deal the Nonica Datta's of the world, and get their biased views out of academia.

Did You know she is becoming the authority on Jat culture in Academia ?

Use our Jathistory group as a base, or start a column of your own , I will support you.

[dhruvdahiya]

If we are obsessed about secular humanism, why not rename the site something like "Humanity.com” so that we are morally correct and more accepting of all other regional or cultural philosophies? We have quite a good representation here of a variety of hypocrites! On one hand we are a 'cordial bunch,' on the bandwagon to accept anyone and everyone bearing a Jat title from around the world; yet, a sample of Jatland members (of varying age groups) reveals utter intolerance for other cultures, especially with regard to important lifelong decisions such as matrimony? To that end we have witnessed a tug of war of the die-hard fanatics from both sides. Aren't we on a collision course with our sense of morality, and or humanity? Do we want to associate with morality or identity? In either case we are compromising on some aspect of humanity and morality, by excluding one or the other! There is no pristine end in sight for this polemic argument. Therefore leaving this site alone for a pure social interaction among the homogeneous Jats (Hindu) would fit the bill. It's okay to allow Muslim Jats on the site but lo we have no business marrying our daughter to Mr. Hussain-Jamal-Abubaker. Nope, those 3 names are alien! Jatland Matrimonial Section anyone? Those who are promulgating the integration agenda should first visit the matrimonial ads, and if they say “caste no bar” or the ad doesn’t mention 3 gotras (self, mother’s and grandmothers), lets embrace the Sikhs and the Muslims? Don’t tell me you are going to integrate these groups to only chitchat and keep them at bay for all else? We are so not so broad-minded just yet…

Preference for exclusion of a culture or a sub sect of a population for the purpose of homogeneous cohesiveness cannot be equated with inhumanity; such parallels cannot be drawn from a few pseudo superficial common traits. Terms like 'Castes' or 'Religions' are not mutually exclusive concepts. Religion is more than caste. You cannot be a Hindu and not denounce non-vegetarianism (killing of the cow). Similarly try asking a Muslim Jat to worship in your sacred temple, or ask him to accept Prasad, you will get first hand crash course on religious intolerance. It is not so much about the similarities that exist among Jats, as much it is about the dissimilarities in our outlooks of stark contrasts. At the heart of the matter are major religious differences that separate us from any other Jat, Sikh or Muslim! I get greeted with the exact same distaste from interacting with my international non-Hindu professional colleagues (some of whom are Pakistani and Sikhs) even in a modern and culturally neutral society as I witnessed some two decades ago as a Jat village girl, in a culturally mixed dorm. How so? It is because people tend to have regionalistic attitude based on generally held perceptions. In the dorm the very people who were closest to my own culture (Punjabis/Sikhs) made the distinction. They perceived me as a 'Jat' and thus automatically backward. In an international set up the same (Urdu speaking, curry eating Pakistanis) perceive me as an Indian first a Hindu second and no one ever talks about being a Jat! Why such perceptions exist is a multifaceted question, but the fact that they exist can't be ignored. Sure we Indians and Pakistanis mingle with each other at social gatherings, and yes we even buy air tickets from agents from both sides, but that's about it! I have been fortunate to have lived in Muslim countries where "anything beef was sacred, and 'anything Hindu was worthy of hatred. Did I coin such phrases, no! Unfortunately that's reality... I have no problem respecting other religions and other humans but accepting them as having similar philosophies will be like comparing apples and oranges!

You think I sound like an illiterate condemning humanity; perhaps so, but I have no problem being misunderstood in this instance, go ahead brand me as one, I would love to hold my head high living with convictions than to fly under the radar by not saying something that I don’t agree with. And all I am saying is that the word Jat alone doesn’t bind us culturally. My ignorance here stemmed from personal experiences, where I was considered a 'nobody' and treated differently based on my religion. I was 'Hindu,' first an 'Indian' second in a country with predominantly Muslim population. Give me one good reason to love such hateful minds or to mingle with them as one (apart from the Gandhian theory to offer my other cheek when humiliated)? No, can't do! I was a neutral entity and always a human being first until I got this heavy dose of regionalism and religion. I have compassion for the mankind and I am still able to practice humanity, however, to what extent and why I feel more comfortable interacting with Hindu Jats has nothing to do with exclusion of other sub-sect of a population, I just feel I am different. May be their prejudiced religious upbringing has no room for acceptance of others?

Many who have asserted their regional ties to Hindu Jats have the right to do so. My allegiance is to India first as an Indian, and I have no hesitation in associating myself with Hindu Jats having grown up as one. If such differences didn't impact the everyday mundane life we will not have IoK or PoK, Chechnya, Serbia, or madrasas in every city of Pakistan? We will be one big happy nation. Did anyone know the restaurants at the United Nations cater to the delicate palates of people from all parts of world? Everything Jewish is not kosher; there are ethnic, cultural and religious differences no matter where you go. For heaven's sake let us not cry wolf about the Brits again! We have long been liberated! And why drag the Rajput factor into it? So we want to respond to the 'cry for help?' Let us uplift the downtrodden within our own community and our own country first, who so ever he/she is, without preference to caste creed or religion before crossing the borders for the sake of Jat fanaticism! Ethnic cleansing has taken thousands of lives in the Balkan states. Religious fanaticism is murderous and shall not be tolerated as morally correct, however, some cultures are unable to separate philosophy of life from religion. I am in favor of humanity in any shape or form, but intolerant of religious degradation. If I can be tolerant enough to think of a Mosque as a place of worship and thus sacred, so can a Muslim? There are some deep-rooted philosophical differences that cannot be bridged by plain talk! The cultural homogeneity we are seeking is beyond the breadth and scope of this site.

PS: I think the cow dung analogy in another thread was misplaced intellectual exercise. “There is dignity in any kind of labor” be it baking cow dung cakes in a village or manufacturing computer chips in Bangalore…




Great philosophy but who is listening bua jee? Why don't you come here and educate us [people who want to learn] missing you out here. You write your heart out and i take you as true educated person in every sense. You are simply great.

[stokas]

If we are obsessed about secular humanism, why not rename the site something like "Humanity.com” so that we are morally correct and more accepting of all other regional or cultural philosophies?
.......a sample of Jatland members (of varying age groups) reveals utter intolerance for other cultures, especially with regard to important lifelong decisions such as matrimony?
.......Therefore leaving this site alone for a pure social interaction among the homogeneous Jats (Hindu) would fit the bill. It's okay to allow Muslim Jats on the site but lo we have no business marrying our daughter to Mr. Hussain-Jamal-Abubaker.
........Those who are promulgating the integration agenda should first visit the matrimonial ads, and if they say “caste no bar” or the ad doesn’t mention 3 gotras (self, mother’s and grandmothers), lets embrace the Sikhs and the Muslims? Don’t tell me you are going to integrate these groups to only chitchat and keep them at bay for all else? We are so not so broad-minded just yet……


Sujata Ji and Jagmohan Sir,

You both are damn right!!!!

Agar saare jatton ko hadae badan (enter) denaa hae - tae iss ka naam www.humanity.com ya www.alljatsland.com rakh denaa chahiye!!

Amardeep has also raised a good question:

Agar doosre Jattan nae mhari bolli hi samajh mae nahin aayee - to ve haadae ke apna sir maaran aawenge? Sab tae badaa farak yo hi sae, unn mae ar mhare mae. Agar sab tae chhoot de di tae, thode dinaa ke baad (shayad 3-4 saallan baad) :rolleyes: hamnae apni typical jat bhasha mae likhane ki bhi ijaajat nahi hogi.

Siraf angrezi mae hi likhna padegaa sab-kucchh :o ya fir "Insha allah, assalaamaalekum", "Oye munde - ki karda, kithe janda" vagera sikhna padega - 'chhori' ki jagah 'kudiye' kehna padegaa :( ar bhai, mae to yo sab nahin kar paungaa :mad: Pehlyaa-e nahin padhe, tae eeb aur nayee padhai kyukar kar sakae sain :p

Bhaiyon-behnon ar ankal-antiyon, issa din dekkhan tae pehlyaa, mae hade tae izzat ke saath bahar jaana chahunga!!!!!!!!! :cool:!!!!!!!!Iss tae pehlyaan ke koi doosra mane tahvai!!!!!!!!

Ram-Ram

[dhruvdahiya]

No, on the contrary I love discussions, but I have also read this somewhere:

"The truth isn't the truth until people believe you, and they can't believe you if they don't know what you're saying, and they can't know what you're saying if they don't listen to you, and they won't listen to you if you're not interesting, and you won't be interesting unless you say things imaginatively, originally, freshly(William Bernbach)."

When I write I try to maintain that fine balance in my posts. When it becomes obvious what direction the sentiment of the majority are one must heed other's advice. However, that doesn't nearly mean that one is following the mob or herd mentality! A distinction is to be made with extreme discretion as to when it is necessary to go with the mob.






BUA JI IS INSPIRATIONAL AND WORLDLY WISE. Admire you bua ji.

[mukeshkumar007]

Siraf angrezi mae hi likhna padegaa sab-kucchh :o ya fir "Insha allah, assalaamaalekum", "Oye munde - ki karda, kithe janda" vagera sikhna padega - 'chhori' ki jagah 'kudiye' kehna padegaa :( ar bhai, mae to yo sab nahin kar paungaa :mad: Pehlyaa-e nahin padhe, tae eeb aur nayee padhai kyukar kar sakae sain :p
:D :D hmm.... oye yeh ki huweya


Bhaiyon-behnon ar ankal-antiyon, issa din dekkhan tae pehlyaa, mae hade tae izzat ke saath bahar jaana chahunga!!!!!!!!! :cool:!!!!!!!!Iss tae pehlyaan ke koi doosra mane tahvai!!!!!!!!

Shildendra bhiyaji..yeh phir se jane wali bate kyo sharu kar dii....agar aap jaise ache log bi yeha se jana sharu kar diya to phir bachega kaun.... If something is going wrong then we should protest it with the support of all member instead of going out ....
Yeh to maidan chore ke jane wali baat ho gai...

By the way personally I also feel that this site should be only for Hindu Jats ....

[stokas]

Re Mukesh, ghabra matt!!!!

Mai maidaan chhod ke bhaagne walon me se nahin hoon - basharte ki koi ghar wala ya apnaa sagyaa hi be-ijjat kar kae naa bhaga be.

Datt rhe sain bhai, itni asaani tae thodi naa bhaaj jyaange :D

Chup-chap - khade ho kae tamassa dekkhanian aur honge - mhare pae nahin dekhya jatta bhai.

"Bitode" "Gitwaad" "Choorma" "Gaam" "Chhora" "Seedha" "Peeliyaa" "Bhaan" "Babbu" ka matlab ke ho sae - koi doosri 'bhasha' aala bataa sakae sae ke?

These are my only concerns dear - nothing more than that!!

Enjoy and take care,

Badaa bhai

[scsheorayan]

Dear friends,

I was not able to log on for a few days and apologise for this. I see that this topic has surfaced again.

Let us try and ask ourselves just one question. Do you feel same Apnapan with Muslim Jats and Sikh Jats as you do with Hindu Jats.

It is all about having a virtual home for Hindu Jats. Honestly speaking I can not feel as comfortable with non Hindu Jats ( Don't think I hate any one, I have some good friends in those quarters also) and will always think before commenting any thing about their religions. Hello Hi is fine but Apnapan is Not so easy.

Some one who thinks otherwise is perfectly entitled to his/her opinion but let us not try and force our ideology on others. If you feel so much attachment with other Jats nothing stops you from logging on their websites and experience first hand then come back and tell others on this website.

That will make interesting reading.

[nmalik1]

sabse pahle main ye puchhta hun ki ye narrow vision ki defination kahaan ja kar khatam hoti hai.....kya muslim jats aur sikh jats ko is site par invite karne ke baad ye broad vision ho jayega.

kya is site ko siraf hindu jats ke liye rakhna galat hai...bilkul nahi...iska matlab ye nahi hai ki hum kisi aur kaum ke khilaaf hain...aur behtar yahi hoga ki is site ko hindu jats ke liye hi rakha jaye aur hum apni kaum ki behtri ke liye kaam karein....

lekin kuchh bhai apne-aap ko secular saabit karne ki phirak mein bol rahein hain is site ko sabhi jats ke liye kar diya jaye...phir to bhai isse achha hai ki isko open for any human being kar diye jaye to achha hoga aur hum secular ka tagma bhi pahan lenge..lekin achha to hoga ki isko siraf hindu jats ke liye hi rakha jaye.......

lekin abhi aisa hoga nahi kyonki jab baad hi khet ko khaane lag jaye to phir bachne ki ummid nahi hai....kuchh din pahle tak jo bhi jat sikh jatland ka member banta tha usko delete/ban kar diya jata tha ...lekin abhi ye "harjiwan malhi" aur ek aur hai "pkaur"...inko is site par puri publicity di ja rahi hai aur ADMINISTRATORS ki taraf se bhi kuchh action nahi hua hai...ye sab ek sochi-samjhi chaal hai

mere ko ye baar-baar block kar rahein hain lekin what abt this "pkaur"...asliyat mein ye nitiz hai
http://www.jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8482

nitin dahiya aur nitiz ka apas mein kuchh link hai aur ye ek dusre ko achhi tarah se jante hai...mera kahne ka matlab hai ki ye family freinds hain aur ye in dono ki sochi samjhi chaal hai ki aisa mahol bana diya jaye aur is site par dusre jaato ko bhi bula liya jaye taaki ki members jyaada ho jayein...aur yahi karan hai ki nitin dahiya nitiz aur uske dwara banayi gayi fake user id ko tab tak nahi delete karta jab tak us par hamare jaiso ko dabav na badh jaye...jab hum yahaan baith kar bata sakte hain ke kaunsa member fake lag raha hai to phir NITIN ko to koyi problem nahi honi chahiye.

dosto main vyaktigat taur par kisi kaum ke khilaaf nahi hun aur mere kuchh achhe mitro mein se jat sikh bhi hain...lekin jab identity ki baat aati hai to phir hamein kuchh sochna chahiye.

halanki kamjor mansikta ka parichay dete huye nitin dahiya ne is thread ko lock kar diya hai aur main apne in dosto ki baat se bilkulo sahmat hun:-

http://www.jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7698

main ab is site se resign kar raha hun...lekin agar iske Administrators aur Moderators ko badal diya jaye to kuchh vichaar kiya ja sakta hai...

present Administrators aur Moderators mein se siraf "Shubha Chand Sheoran" hi aise hain jo ek JAT ki tarah baat karte hain....mere khayal se Shubha Chand ji ko Administrator bana dena chahiye..agar is site ki maryada bachani hai to

main ab is site se RESIGN kar raha hun...aur mere ko pata hai ki kuchh dalle pichhe se bhaan-bhaan karenge..jo ki unki adat hai...kisi ko impress karne ke liye

PS:- Administrator, main aaj ke baad apne vichar jatland par nahi rakhunga.....lekin aap ne agar meri is reply post ko delete kiya to siraf isko copy paste karne ke liye pakka aata rahunga(aur vo bhi ciber cafe main baith kai chahe ip address block kar diyo)...other wise u can sleep peacefully

[raj_rathee]

Bhai mere, you seem to be having way too many issues. Resign kar
jao toh accha. Please go away if possible.


sabse pahle main ye puchhta hun ki ye narrow vision ki defination kahaan ja kar khatam hoti hai.....kya muslim jats aur sikh jats ko is site par invite karne ke baad ye broad vision ho jayega.

kya is site ko siraf hindu jats ke liye rakhna galat hai...bilkul nahi...iska matlab ye nahi hai ki hum kisi aur kaum ke khilaaf hain...aur behtar yahi hoga ki is site ko hindu jats ke liye hi rakha jaye aur hum apni kaum ki behtri ke liye kaam karein....lekin kuchh bhai apne-aap ko secular saabit karne ki phirak mein bol rahein hain is site ko sabhi jats ke liye kar diya jaye...phir to bhai isse achha hai ki isko open for any human being kar diye jaye to achha hoga aur hum secular ka tagma bhi pahan lenge..lekin achha to hoga ki isko siraf hindu jats ke liye hi rakha jaye.......

lekin abhi aisa hoga nahi kyonki jab baad hi khet ko khaane lag jaye to phir bachne ki ummid nahi hai....kuchh din pahle tak jo bhi jat sikh jatland ka member banta tha usko delete/ban kar diya jata tha ...lekin abhi ye "harjiwan malhi" aur ek aur hai "pkaur"...inko is site par puri publicity di ja rahi hai aur ADMINISTRATORS ki taraf se bhi kuchh action nahi hua hai...ye sab ek sochi-samjhi chaal hai

mere ko ye baar-baar block kar rahein hain lekin what abt this "pkaur"...asliyat mein ye nitiz hai
http://www.jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8482

nitin dahiya aur nitiz ka apas mein kuchh link hai aur ye ek dusre ko achhi tarah se jante hai...mera kahne ka matlab hai ki ye family freinds hain aur ye in dono ki sochi samjhi chaal hai ki aisa mahol bana diya jaye aur is site par dusre jaato ko bhi bula liya jaye taaki ki members jyaada ho jayein...aur yahi karan hai ki nitin dahiya nitiz aur uske dwara banayi gayi fake user id ko tab tak nahi delete karta jab tak us par hamare jaiso ko dabav na badh jaye...jab hum yahaan baith kar bata sakte hain ke kaunsa member fake lag raha hai to phir NITIN ko to koyi problem nahi honi chahiye.

dosto main vyaktigat taur par kisi kaum ke khilaaf nahi hun aur mere kuchh achhe mitro mein se jat sikh bhi hain...lekin jab identity ki baat aati hai to phir hamein kuchh sochna chahiye.

halanki kamjor mansikta ka parichay dete huye nitin dahiya ne is thread ko lock kar diya hai aur main apne in dosto ki baat se bilkulo sahmat hun:-

http://www.jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7698

main ab is site se resign kar raha hun...lekin agar iske Administrators aur Moderators ko badal diya jaye to kuchh vichaar kiya ja sakta hai...present Administrators aur Moderators mein se siraf Shubha Chand Sheoran hi aise hain jo ek JAT ki tarah baat karte hain....mere khayal se Shubha Chand ji ko Administrator bana dena chahiye..agar is site ki maryada bachani hai to

main ab is site se RESIGN kar raha hun...aur mere ko pata hai ki kuchh dalle pichhe se bhaan-bhaan karenge..jo ki unko adat hai...kisi ko impress karne ke liye

PS:- Administrator, main aaj ke baad apne vichar jatland par nahi rakhunga.....lekin aap ne agar meri is reply post ko delete kiya to siraf isko copy paste karne ke liye pakka aata rahunga...other wise u can sleep peacefully

[dhruvdahiya]

Narender uncle...why should you go ? you are a spirited Jat and i am sure people like you are needed out here. Every one is wathing as to what people do here. Your point well taken and i request Nitin bhaiya not to do anything with your ID. If one person is criticising you for personal reasons that does not mean there is dearth of people who don't like you. Why not face these people and put them to their place. CHEERS!

[scsheorayan]

Dear Narendra,

Resigning from Jatland is like running away from a fair fight. If there are some issues let us discuss them and find out what the truth is. None of us is perfect but atleast we can aspire together to improve ourselves. It sounds great that we side the truth but in real world truth is some times quite different from what it appears on the surface. Let us not forget that speakers and listeners of truth are very rare in this Kaliyug. But don't give up so easily and learn to roll with the punches. Jats are never quitters. That is what the Jat spirit is after all. Some members may have difficulty in understanding the Roman and if possible please try to translate in English (does not have to be perfect) for the benefit of those readers.

[dhruvdahiya]

Dear Narendra,

Resigning from Jatland is like running away from a fair fight. If there are some issues let us discuss them and find out what the truth is. None of us is perfect but atleast we can aspire together to improve ourselves. It sounds great that we side the truth but in real world truth is some times quite different from what it appears on the surface. Let us not forget that speakers and listeners of truth are very rare in this Kaliyug. But don't give up so easily and learn to roll with the punches. Jats are never quitters. That is what the Jat spirit is after all. Some members may have difficulty in understanding the Roman and if possible please try to translate in English (does not have to be perfect) for the benefit of those readers.



Uncle ji you are very right. We must not quit.

[dhruvdahiya]

We should love our people without any condition. Mere dada ji kehte the and i quote," Chalna rahi ka chahe ferr kyuna ho, bethhna bhaiyan ka chahe berr kyu na ho"....and he followed it till his death.[unquote]

[dhruvdahiya]

Intolerance of highest order........ooops.......it sucks. Bravo uncle! aap bhi to great ho....kuchh achhi baat sikhao.Mere dada ji achhe the to achche kahoonga..aapko bura laga to mai kya krun. aap NY mei baith kar aisi baatein karte hain uncle. Sujata bua ji aap RAJ-RAAAJ uncle ko batana mei kaun huun..........ye preshan lag rahe hain...gali gloch kar rahe hain. Any way uncle to apne hi hein na...sab chalta hai.Izzat karna hamara kaam.....BASS.

[ramksehrawat]

It is a pity that those who are already here are fighting on a hypothetical issue of the membership of Sikh/Muslim jats instead of forging and maintaining unity amongst those who are already here. Incidently Sikh/Muslim jats have not qued up at your gates to seek entry. They are not bothered about you, why you are so concerned. My personal opinion and experience is that no sikh jat takes pride in being a jat rather he is a sikh first and anything else latter. Between a non-jat sikh and a hindu jat, a sikh-jat will side with a non-jat sikh. Sikh jats hardly mixes with Hindu jats whereas they have "dant-kati roti" with even with khatri and SC sikhs. Same with muslim jats, even worse. To them Allah is supreme and they will not hesitate even for a minute to kill Hindu jats for the sake of Allah. Moreover, to me the Muslim jats are the most coward of the jat kaum. Those who broke down and renounced their religion in fear can never be true jats. By discussing the issue of their membership we are behaving like that chamari who was telling her husband "bhain bvayagi to kis-2 nai seet denge" even before the "bhains" had conceived. Let's not waste our sleep over the issue of their membership and destroy whatever love and affection we have amonst ourselves.

[jagmohan]

It is a pity that those who are already here are fighting on a hypothetical issue of the membership of Sikh/Muslim jats instead of forging and maintaining unity amongst those who are already here. Incidently Sikh/Muslim jats have not qued up at your gates to seek entry. They are not bothered about you, why you are so concerned. My personal opinion and experience is that no sikh jat takes pride in being a jat rather he is a sikh first and anything else latter. Between a non-jat sikh and a hindu jat, a sikh-jat will side with a non-jat sikh. Sikh jats hardly mixes with Hindu jats whereas they have "dant-kati roti" with even with khatri and SC sikhs. Same with muslim jats, even worse. To them Allah is supreme and they will not hesitate even for a minute to kill Hindu jats for the sake of Allah. Moreover, to me the Muslim jats are the most coward of the jat kaum. Those who broke down and renounced their religion in fear can never be true jats. By discussing the issue of their membership we are behaving like that chamari who was telling her husband "bhain bvayagi to kis-2 nai seet denge" even before the "bhains" had conceived. Let's not waste our sleep over the issue of their membership and destroy whatever love and affection we have amonst ourselves.

Dear Sehrawat Ji,

Very true and aptly put. I agree with you 100%. That is why I keep saying that insted of talking about 'Missions', 'Visions' & 'Statements', let us help out our less fortunate brothers, sisters and relatives. Perhaps it is easier to talk about JAT UNITY than doing simple things like helping out that ONE JAT who needs our help.

Regards,

JS Malik

[raj_rathee]

My personal opinion and experience is that no sikh jat takes pride in being a jat rather he is a sikh first and anything else latter.

Quite to the contrary, Sikh Jats are very much aware of being Jat. There
exists a lot of bias against non-Jat Sikhs, and likewise a lot of resentment
against Jat Sikhs in the hearts of non-Jat Sikhs. This is based on my
interaction with quite a few Sikhs in Canada.

[ramksehrawat]

Rathee Sahab,

No jat-sikh true to his blood have any love lost for a Hindu Jat. This is what my personal experience is after interacting with them for 35 years. When you are in Canada there are several other considerations which may bring them near to you but while in India you see their true colours. Never forget that in Punjab they have ruled the state since independence but always discriminated against Hindu jats. Water sharing is the burning example.

[raj_rathee]

Right Sir, I agree with you in that respect. I was only pointing out
that among Sikhs themselves there is a lot of Jat/Non Jat issues.
But yes, for the most part they have no love lost for Hindu Jats.

Rathee Sahab,

No jat-sikh true to his blood have any love lost for a Hindu Jat. This is what my personal experience is after interacting with them for 35 years. When you are in Canada there are several other considerations which may bring them near to you but while in India you see their true colours. Never forget that in Punjab they have ruled the state since independence but always discriminated against Hindu jats. Water sharing is the burning example.