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rajendersingh
March 10th, 2004, 09:37 PM
Dear all,
It is really great to hear ppl talking about brotherhood, care for others, relations with jatt Sikhs, Muslim Sikhs and many more. We all love such things. I fully support these noble ideas. And intact all jats do that. It’s in our blood. We are too good at helping others. And I am proud of that.
It’s for the information of all those, who are ignorant about the social life in a Jat village, as a rule the weaker section of society are always protected by jats only. its very common to see a jat standing against a jat to ensure that no injustice is done to any one who is considered weak.bechara garib or bechara kamjor, whether he is a bramin,or refugee or a bc or sc, he get his due in all forms. We all r proud of that. We all feel great about the fact that Jat villages r the oldest republics in human history. It’s a fact nobody can deny that.

Whatever is the written history, fact is that jats had sacrificed the most in all terms .they had done the supreme sacrifice for their country. They had shown maximum possible respect for fellow human beings which nobody had done. It is all seen whether it is India or any other part of world, wherever they were/are present. Now did they get their due at any point of time in history? I strongly feel it has never been.

Let’s not go very far, the recent history shows how it treated is this kaum. Whenever we have/had a leader of some substance he was always branded the communal leader. u take case of late sir ch. chotu ram, late ch. charan singh, late ch. devi lal and the present breed. It always hurts to see in news papers that they r always branded as Jat leaders as if they have stopped all the privileges and rights of other castes, so this is the reality of life.

Few of our friend’s r very eager to see jatt Sikhs on jatland. The explanation given is that they r as good jats as we r. and other reasons r like friendship and what not. Let’s try to analyze the problem in brief. The Sikhs helped Britishers during 1857. In return, they got all favors. All irrigation facilities preference in job and they became favorites of Britishers when India became free, Sikh dominated Punjab was much ahead of the Punjab of present haryana. In 1966 when jats got their state as haryana it was one of the most backward parts of yamuna-ganges plains. People like pratap singh karion ensured that not a single penny is spent in this part of Punjab. karion was a jatt Sikh. is this the blood relationship we r talking about. Till recently there use to be a large number of jatt sikhs as generals in Indian Army and as well as very senior civil officers. personally i know many cases where an edge was given to a bhapa Sikh, ramdasiya Sikh and majhbhi Sikh by jatt Sikhs, but I never ever heard a jatt Sikh giving preference to a jat at any level in any form. I think that its high time that instead of talking all these big things, lets concentrate on the real issue i.e. jat. i have got no problems with jatt Sikhs as few of my friends r from that community and I take extra time to tell them the truth about our common blood relations and the differences which we have got.

I believe I m here because it is space meant for jats and it should be groomed in that form only. The strongest point which is against us is that we do not unite. This is what I have been hearing since my child hood. It is very surprising to see people talking about all these jatt Sikhs and Muslim jats and many more. Isn’t it very odd for this site, can't we take some time for our own people. My humble request is to restrain from such wild ideas. Our brothers such as jatt Sikhs and Muslim jatts r close to our hearts, but the reality is u stand no where in their priority. so, let's think of this kaum who has been victim of everyone and it really needs u and me.

Here some body was talking about world fraternity and what not, isn't it very immature on our part to forget the reality o life and get swayed by ideas which r of no concern to jats.

Here I m quoting from a book which is most quoted about the present and future world permutation and combination,” THE CLASH OF CIVILIZATIONS AND THE REMAKING OF WORLD ORDER" by Samuel P. Huntington. It says "there can be no true friends without true enemies. Unless we hate what we r not, we cannot love what we are. These r the old truths we r painfully rediscovering after a century and more of sentimental cant. Those who deny them deny their family, their heritage, their culture, their birthright, and their very selves! They will not likely to be forgiven." it further says that these old truths cannot be ignore by statesman and scholars. For people seeking identity and reinventing ethnicity, enemies r essential, and the potentially most dangerous enmities occur across the fault lines between the world's major civilizations.

I with all humility tell god that jats don't need more honesty as they r already the most honest people you have ever created On this earth.
Hard work is their obsession, so this trouble is not required and relax on this part.
They never failed to take care of the weaker one, so do spent some time telling others to follow the Jat’s example.
When u taught about sacrifices, it is all known that jats r the most attentive
Oh god, u never said, but they read your mind and looked after the weaker one as nobody hasn't done till the day and the best thing is that they, never bargained for u in temple,
U know they r the only one who gave u ample.
To be honest, they never asked u a thing
All the likings have they stood for everything.

Not a pray but a question, are we punished? We don't care for each other
Is it a strategy for us to finish?
Oh god be kind so that we unite, we never bothered u, as it is your might
Still u ought to be right
And let the jats unite

nvedwan
March 10th, 2004, 10:00 PM
I agree with all the point made. The historical review of Punjab/Sikh situation is particularly good. Especially for people who claim to know history, it is strange that they miss out on the evolution of sikh identity over time. There are clear and strong attempts being made to differentiate sikhs from hindus for a long time: in other words the TREND IS TOWARDS INCREASING SOCIO-CULTURAL, POLITICAL DISTANCE between the two communities. The formation of present-day punjab on linguistic basis, the systematic neglect of Haryana before 1967, are all points in the same evolving process. Only last year, the SGPC adopted Nanakshahi calendar and rejected Vikrami calendar. This is what BBC had to say about the development:

"Sikhs see the adoption of the new calendar as a big step forward for Sikh identity, and one that will help dispel any suggestions that Sikhism is just a variety of Hinduism."

In this situation, what is the best course for jats as a community:
1. to be pragmatic and not be driven by these wild-eyed theories. be practical in our approach to relations with other community. do alliance building with similarly-placed rural communities, WHERE POSSSIBLE, and go alone, where necessary.
2. Base our political identity in our RECENT, empirical history of struggle, and if I may add, triumph, in the face of heavy odds (This is more inspiring to me then to claim some sort of aristocratic status). The advantage is that this history is not obscure but lives in our collective memory, and therefore can form a superb basis for a rejuvenated jat identity. Our energy will best be utilized in promoting role models such as ch. Chhotu Ram, Ch Charan Singh and not Harshvardhan and Mohammad of Ghazni (apparently the latter was jat too!!)

3. Balance short-term needs and aspirations of our people with fuzzy "vision". There are many pressing needs of the community which can be best met through a practical approach rather than a purely ideologically driven crusade.

ranjitjat
March 10th, 2004, 11:40 PM
DEAR Rajender & NIRAJ
I fully agree with you.
Let us we hindu jat unite frist.
We can have friendly relation with them on public issues.

BUT THEY WILL NEVER TREAT US EQUAL UNTIL WE ARE STRONG & UNITED

CHEERS

ravichaudhary
March 11th, 2004, 12:46 AM
1857 was 150 years ago. The Rajputs, Gurkhas,
and the Rajas of Patiala, Jind, Nabha supported
the British( to protect their pensions, why take that out on the poor footsoldier who was followng orders )

Yes we know Haryana was neglected, so was UP, and Rajastan

The rural wealth was drained to first to pay the British,and then the Congress foibles.

How long do you wish to hang into the past ?

D S Ahlawat wrote very well about that, and i have translated some of that

see

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JatHistory/message/1126

and followup messages



and if you continue to allow a breakdown in communication, what do you think the future is going to bring ?

If you refuse to communicate with those who wish to communicate with you, and have goodwill towards you, what progress do you expect to make?

Is an inward looking vision going to bring unity? strength?

Ever ask your self why the Sikhs seek to detach and distance themselves from Hinduism, and what kind of specific Hinduism they are distancing themsleves from?

Then consider what is your vision of Hinduism, and of a Jat as a Hindu ? Is he a vaishnava ?, part of the Brahmin, Kshatrriya, Vaishya, Sudra system ?

Gets a little complex !

I will repeat what I wrote elsewhere, that this was a request made to by some Sikh Jats, and I have passed it on.

What people here wish to do , is upto them.

Developing an inward looking vision is not going to bring strength.

Ravi

ravichaudhary
March 11th, 2004, 07:55 AM
Rajender Singh (Mar 10, 2004 12:07 p.m.):
Dear all,. The Sikhs helped Britishers during 1857. In return, they got all favors. And let the jats unite


****************
Did no jats( hindu) help the british against fellow Jats in this war ???


Why single out the sikh Jatts ?

Ravi

bnashier
March 11th, 2004, 01:52 PM
****************
Did no jats( hindu) help the british against fellow Jats in this war ???


Why single out the sikh Jatts ?

Ravi[/quote]

******************

Ravi Ji:

At this stage of the game, and after more than 90 posts on two topics, it is clear that many people have taken time to express their views. I would suggest the following:

1. Now we stop discussions on these topics simply because we have juiced them out, and any prolongation might cause some personal frictions among members.

2. One of Murphy's laws says something like this: "If you fool around with something for very long, you will mess it up."

3. I am certain that we have many issues/problems of our folks, which we can discuss and hopefully help someone.

ravichaudhary
March 11th, 2004, 04:37 PM
I have also come to the same conclusion.

Ravi

drnchaudhry
March 11th, 2004, 07:16 PM
Budh Nashier (Mar 11, 2004 04:53 a.m.):


3. I am certain that we have many issues/problems of our folks, which we can discuss and hopefully help someone.


Fine, Lets discuss issues/problems of our folks and ways to crack them down. How to coordinate our efforts to serve the cause?

Regards,

rkumar
March 11th, 2004, 08:49 PM
Dr. Narender Dudee (Mar 11, 2004 09:46 a.m.):
Budh Nashier (Mar 11, 2004 04:53 a.m.):


3. I am certain that we have many issues/problems of our folks, which we can discuss and hopefully help someone.


Fine, Lets discuss issues/problems of our folks and ways to crack them down. How to coordinate our efforts to serve the cause?

Regards,


Even I agree. Let us move forward.

Rajendra

rajendersingh
March 11th, 2004, 09:03 PM
dear all,
many points raised by ravi ji still need to be answered.since it is a close chapter,i respect the verdict.

ravichaudhary
March 11th, 2004, 09:41 PM
One suggestion,

Since Rural education is a prime focus.

We do have Shri Dudhee's initiative, his education group, and his involvement in the Arya Samaj Gurukuls to build upon.

We also have many excellent educationists,

Dr Birbal Singh for one , comes immediately to mind, and his family did much in the early fifties to build hostels for Jat girls and Boys.


They raised over Rs 1 crore for this purpose.

1 crore then was something like 100 crores today.

No disrespect to the many others of vision and purpose , who have not been named here.

Rajendra -

on unanswered points, why do you not send me an off list e mail. and if as a result there is something we wish to share with others, and may be of interest to them, we can always do so.


Ravi

ranjitjat
March 14th, 2004, 08:01 PM
Dear Ravi ji & all.
Please write your view & vision of Education suitable for 21 ST centuary in Rural India in General & JAT HEARTLAND IN PARTICULAR
We agree Education is most imporant.
Your suggestion about Dr Birbal singh family is a example of community service. There are many other jat families and institutions active in this field.
DR GHASI RAM VARMA & RAM SARUP ARYA JI ARE WELL KNOWN NAME IN THIS FIELD.
Good luck to them.
But the task is very important and great. We all have a duty to help our future generation.
So please join in this noble task of community service.
We all have some exp of education & social work.
I request to all of you that please get unite and work as a team for this noble mission.
Let we all join together and work together as a Team of
WORLD JAT EDUCATION FOUNDATION.
FROM TODAY ON WARD
Dr Birbal singh
GHASI RAM VARMA JI
Major Rajender Singh
BUDH JI
Ram sarup Arya JI
Baljit Singh Harita
SUBHA CHAND JI
Ishwar Lamba ji
Rajender kumar ji
Col Jagmohan Malik Sahib
SUJATA BAHIN JI
MRS OMPATI GREWAL
RAVI JI
COL. Ashok Varma Ji
COL. Tevatiya Ji
and other who are serious anout rural Education.
Let we all unite and form a working education commettee and work as a team of World Jat Education Foundation.
We can write a blue print on Education.
What type of Education we need in Rural jat heart land.
What should we our minimum AIM & objective.
How to achive it.
What should be role of our Teachers, parents and goveranment.
How NGO. Politicians & other can help.
Please write your vision of education in Future.

This is my vision. I have not consulted any one to use their names. This is in good faith.
All suggestions are welcome
with best wishes
Dharmpal Dudee


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jay Jawan Jay Kisan Jay Jat Shaheed

sindhu
March 14th, 2004, 09:29 PM
This is politics. and no solution in politics, its answer is only politics. Some decisions are made which are popular or beneficial to the person at command not necessarily to benefit all. This is what had happened in past which we are discussing here.

It will be really wise to refrain from politics on this site.

ranjitjat
March 14th, 2004, 11:52 PM
Sindhu Sahib.
I think you have great interest in Education.
Please write your future vision on Education.
Under Diff thread if you wish.
Naraj mat hona- Agar yah politics hae to yah to yaha day 1 sy chal rahi hae.
Yaha per sikh joke ya sick joke hi hote han.
Agar koe sarafat ka rule hae to safi per lagu hota hae.
I am glad you speak out your heart.
pls do not take personel. for lighter side.
Lekin Aaj kal Election han na- is liye sabhi ko
Politics ky vision dream mae ane lage han.
CHEERS

chhoraharyanada
March 21st, 2004, 11:39 PM
The Royal Sidhu clan of Patiala lent their troops to the British.

They were instrumental in:

1) allying themselves to the British to overthrow the "Sikh Empire" in 1844.

2) quelling the Indian Revolt of 1857.

I have been doing a bit of reading on point 2). Much of it occured in Haryana itself. Rao Tula Ram Ahir of Rewari/Gurgaon regions was the main guy from Haryana who got involved in the revolt. Most of his battles against the British were actually against the Patiala regiments who were working as the 'chum-cheh' of the British.