The Search for a Mission Statement for the Kaum can begin here and now will you stand up and be coun

[amitdahiya]

We, more than any other community, are in desperate need for process driven change. But complex problems demand simple solutions and simplicity requires clarity, focus, universal relevance and practical relevant truth. This is where a mission statement can make a small simple but real difference to our various , diverse, fragmented and unconnected efforts for the kaum.

The mission statement could serve as an umbrella or flag that belongs to no one and is always there when we need it.

A good mission statement shouldnt have more than thirty words. It should be capable of providing a simple credible expression of the need and the journey to transform, empower and involve us in our kaums acceptance of the Challenge of Change.

Please spare a little energy from your many postings to contribute to a good mission statement. pl start now. Your suggestions will be compiled , put up before various groups, brain stormed and adopted formally at a grand gathering of the the Jat clans.
Regards, respects
Amit

[amitdahiya]

Your comments please on the following Staement of Mission, Vision and values.
__________________________________________________ _

MISSION:
To promote processes for the measurable improvement of the quality of life, living standards and empowerment of the jat community on the Indian subcontinent.


VISION:
1. To achieve 100 percent literacy by the year 2009 and true bi-lingual literacy with English as a second language for all school children and assignment to a selected, dedicated sports stream from the the primary level. Win an individual Olympic Jat Gold within three Olympics hence.
2. To achieve 100 percent employment for all graduates by 2007 with a special focus on vocational employment and small enterprise in new and non traditional areas.
3. To achieve 100 percent responsible/ education based use of farm chemicals and 10 percent organic farming produce ( In terms of area under cultivation) and 20% increase in gross farm productivity within three years.
4. To achieve 10 percent reduction in existing litigations in Jat areas and 10 percent decline in new litigations (y.o.y).
5. To register a 10 percent growth in the total population of the Girl child- in the districts of Ambala, Kurukshetra, Karnal, Panipat, Sonepat and Jat villages of Delhi in the age group 1-3 years - within three years.


VALUES: Your inputs needed please in three areas .(pl specify which while contributiong your thoughts)

CULTURAL RENAISSANCE:
Dev' and promotion Image & Artistic ability (R.K.Kalkhunde)
Promote self esteem and History
( Ravi Choudhary)
Promote moderation in use of alcohol and Tobacco. ( Bharat Dahiya)

Promote disapproval rejection and deedification of the use of profanity based on Mothers, Sisters and daughters. ( Anonymous)


CONTINUOUS IMPROVEMENT & GROWTH:
Bring access to computers at village level to promote connectivity, Technology,opportunity.
(Budh Nashier & Ranvir Dalal)

Minimum standards Guidelines to help village communities to monitor education quality in Village schools (Ajmer Dahiya & Amit Dahiya)

A standing training programme to introduce school teachers in Haryana and the Jat Areas of other states to the Best Education Pactices world wide and the latest concepts. ( Mimi Singh)

QUALITY LEADERSHIP, MANAGEMENT AND GOVERNANCE:

[ravichaudhary]

Good start

The statement is fine.

1. Literacy:

as a subset, somewhere I would add fluency in English, from kindergarten.

If english is taught from KG up, in fifteen years( one generation) you will see a seachange, and momentum, critical mass, will take over

It will enable our kids to compete

2. Employment,

You need non traditional employment.

Like self employment, business.

We must find a way to encourage this. Business should not be looked down, as was previously the case, a profession for a Bania, not fit for a Jat.

Big businesses grow from small ones.

People must be encouraged to start businesses, Transport, shops, STD booths, anything, and our rural community shuld support such businesses.

I see this is some communities here. The chinese are very community minded, and support only their own community.

Businesses create jobs, and wealth

As usual my ideas will generate some controversy.

Let us not be afraid of that.


Ravi

[amitdahiya]

Dear Ravi,
Thanks this is great. I wish I had thought of this on your lines so we're going to factor in your inputs
and put you on the mailing list for a newsletter for this project. Also congrats for being the first to stand up and be counted.

The people who contribute intellectually here are doing it out of love for kaum and a sense of responsibility. The brainstorming and quality and volume of input may well serve as an eyeopener for all of us. Pl send us your address and some description of what you do so that when we break up into teams on individual aspects of the mission you could facilitate/team up on that part of the process.

Amit Dahiyabadshah


Amit Dahiyabadshah (Mar 13, 2004 11:33 a.m.):
Your comments please on the following possible measurable mission.
__________________________________________________ _

1. To achieve 100 percent literacy by the year 2009.
2. To achieve 100 percent employment for all graduates by 2007
3. To achieve 100 percent responsible/education based use of farm chemicals and 10 percent organic
farming produce ( In terms of area under cultivation) and 20% increase in gross farm productivity in
4. To achieve 10 percent reduction in existing litigations in Jat areas and 10 percent decline in new
litigations (y.o.y).
5. To register a 10 percent growth in the total population of the Girl child in the districts of Ambala, Kurukshetra, Karnal, Panipat, Sonepat and Jat villages of Delhi in the age group 3 years within 2 years.

[rsdalal]

How about adding something in regards to sports

[jagmohan]

Dear Amit,

My suggestion:-

I pledge to:

1. Help another JAT.

2. Respect the right of the girl child to be born and able to survive, get educated
with equal right as her brother and be counted as an equal.

3. Look after the aged of the family.

4. Not to accept and give dowry as also not attend marriages where dowry is likley
to be given or accepted.

5. Contribute towards genuine charity for upliftment of poorest JATS by direct action.

Regards,

Lt Col JS Malik (Retd)

[uday]

Shelters for WAR WIDOWs under one umbrella in each district and uplift of education standards for their children.
Although Govt. aided WAR widow shelters are there but not fully
available for all "NEEDY" war widows.

Amit Dahiyabadshah (Mar 14, 2004 12:47 a.m.):
Your comments please on the following Staement of Mission, Vision and values.
__________________________________________________ _

Mission:
To promote processes for the measurable improvement of the quality of life living standards and empowerment of the jat community on the Indian subcontinent.


Vision:
1. To achieve 100 percent literacy by the year 2009 with English asa second langauage for all school children from the primary level.
2. To achieve 100 percent employment for all graduates by 2007 with aspecial focus on vocational employment and small enterprise in new and non traditional areas.
3. To achieve 100 percent responsible/ education based use of farm chemicals and 10 percent organic farming produce ( In terms of area under cultivation) and 20% increase in gross farm productivity within three years.
4. To achieve 10 percent reduction in existing litigations in Jat areas and 10 percent decline in new litigations (y.o.y).
5. To register a 10 percent growth in the total population of the Girl child- in the districts of Ambala, Kurukshetra, Karnal, Panipat, Sonepat and Jat villages of Delhi in the age group 1-3 years - within three years.


Values:( Your inputs needed please)
Cultural renaissance, continuous growth and Quality in leadership and management.

[amitdahiya]

Dear Colonel malik and Bhai Ranvir
Thank you for your invaluable inputs
I propose that the second post on this subject can be continuously modified by me as your contributions come in.

May I suggest that we should structure our contribution by headlining the nature of the input either as Mission, Vision, or Values. For instance I feel that Colonel Sahibs contributions come under values while Bhai ranvir's suggestions need to be expressed along with a numerical target in the Vision part.

The Central mission statement is broadly conceptual in nature and needs to be revised very carefully for the risk of excluding or including controversial matters, inadvertently.
Regards Amit.


Ranvir Singh Dalal (Mar 14, 2004 10:33 a.m.):
How about adding something in regards to sports

[amitdahiya]

Dear Ravi two of your contributions have been considered and included in the statement. One on education related to english and the other on non traditional enterprise. Congratulations and many thanks.
Amit.


Ravi Chaudhary (Mar 13, 2004 03:37 p.m.):
Good start

The statement is fine.

1. Literacy:

as a subset, somewhere I would add fluency in English, from kindergarten.

If english is taught from KG up, in fifteen years( one generation) you will see a seachange, and momentum, critical mass, will take over

It will enable our kids to compete

2. Employment,

You need non traditional employment.

Like self employment, business.

We must find a way to encourage this. Business should not be looked down, as was previously the case, a profession for a Bania, not fit for a Jat.

Big businesses grow from small ones.

People must be encouraged to start businesses, Transport, shops, STD booths, anything, and our rural community shuld support such businesses.

I see this is some communities here. The chinese are very community minded, and support only their own community.

Businesses create jobs, and wealth

As usual my ideas will generate some controversy.

Let us not be afraid of that.


Ravi

[amitdahiya]

For updates of the Mission Statement based on your inputs pl refer to post number 2 on this topic. If you havent noticed your input reflected already it only means that it is being discussed and brain stormed. A careful perusal of other posts on the subject wil help avoid repitition and actually help speed up the process.

[rkumar]

Dear Freiends,

Its a wonderful thought to have mission. First of all let us list all the major problems we wish to address through mission. Once we have the list. we compile it according to priority. Once we reach this level, the real issue will come of implementation, which we can take up once we have the misson statement ready and adopted. My list of the issues which need urgent attention are;

1. Meaningful Education ( This should include vocational, languages, moral, social etc...)
2. Female literacy
3. Well being of girl child
4. Cooperative farming ( Very important as land holdings are becoming small and cost of inputs have gone very high and beyond the means of most average farmers)
5. Alternative agriculture
6. Spots as they are big money spinners in today's world
7. Water conservation as water is becoming a big issue and basis of all major disputes
8. Image if Jats as those cultured and not the present image of a lathmaar
9. Most jats have too much greed for land and engage in grabbing even essential lands from roads and other utility lands. This makes infrastructure extemely poor in Jat villages and thereby making it exteremely difficult for any external investment in the area. Jats need to be taught of this and how this has been harming them all.
10. Jats are not known for fine arts. They need to be sensitised to music, acting, paintings etc in a organised way. This will bring manyfold revenues.
11. Dowry of course is a big issue.
12. Village architecture. I feel this is extremely important area which need to be addressed.

Regards
Rajendra

[ravichaudhary]

[quote]Rajendra Kumar Kalkhunde (Mar 15, 2004 01:30 a.m.):
Dear Freiends,

Its a wonderful thought to have mission.


8. Image if Jats as those cultured and not the present image of a lathmaar

*****************
Thank you Rajendra,

This one is particlularly close to my heart.

Our Jat society is portrayed as backward, crude , uncultured, to the point where many Jats refuse to admit they are Jats, especially if they get a little educated.

The children in school feel discriminated against.

Growing up I had no idea who Sir Chotu Ram was, or that that Harshvardhan, the Mauryas or the Guptas, or Kaniska were Jats or what the Sarv Khap was, and what the deeds its members had performed.

Assuredly my attitude to life would have been different if I had learnt that in our history books.


A proper positive view of our history and culture must be brought out.

1) internally for our Jat children and the adults

2) our history texts books in schools must be revised to give the Jats their due place in history, so that the attitude of future generations of Indians do not carry these negative attitudes.

Much of our nascent work on the Yahoo Jathistory group is to change the thinking in non Jats about us Jats.

It works, but we need the force of full community behind us.

and we need many more people to take the initiative

This is not a task that I ( or a few others) can achieve alone.


Ravi

[rkumar]

Thanks Ravi. My personal experince is that jats tend to fall behind any jat leader who can convey to them that he is selfless, honest and truely care for them. Jats tend to argue first, but they accept the advice if its put properly to them. Unfortunate part is that they have been exploited by their own fellow jats often and that made them not tro trust many of seudo social worker jats. I am 100% sure that if just one of us takes the cause of jats with full honesty and integrity, whole jat mass will be behind him/her in due course of time. There will be initial hurdles from some political leaders who will think that this some one is trying to become a parallel force.

Knowing our community so well, I feel the best way to begin will be to make a small dedicated group of just 5 like minded persons who can put their own resources and go from village to village in the begining spreading their concern for the community. I am fully convinced that within few months this will become a movement and people will start flocking to attend bigger meetings region wise. Results will be visible just in one year. Like Panch piara, let us call this group of 5 dedicated young jat boys as...Panch....??////

Rajendra

[amitdahiya]

Dear Rajendra and Ravi,

Thanks for your valuable inputs and I shall update post number 2 to incorporate your inputs suitably .

One problem that i have experienced on jatland is a tit for tat kind of response to common cause. No sooner do you propose to do something, than some idiot dilutes the focus by immediately framing a parallel initiative or cause, thereby immediately dividing the energy available to brainstorm an issue to its logical conclusion.

These people are particularly active on jatland where they keep feeding their own midget sized egos and never see any of their innumerable projects and proposals through to any useful conclusion. I have tried to ignore such people in the past and even gone off the site for several months thinking that they would wear themselves out, but sadly that is not the case.

Let us beware of those who constantly go about playing their tiny little Dug-Dugis ( Little rattling hand drums used by bandar nachanewalas) confusing the Kaum, and distracting those who would rather do something, into attending their courts of senile self aggrandisement. Just look at the latest offerings under current affairs and you'll know what I mean. Frankly I am beginning to feel a little disgust now. But what to do about this distracting presence.

Regards
Amit




Rajendra Kumar Kalkhunde (Mar 15, 2004 08:54 p.m.):
Thanks Ravi. My personal experince is that jats tend to fall behind any jat leader who can convey to them that he is selfless, honest and truely care for them. Jats tend to argue first, but they accept the advice if its put properly to them. Unfortunate part is that they have been exploited by their own fellow jats often and that made them not tro trust many of seudo social worker jats. I am 100% sure that if just one of us takes the cause of jats with full honesty and integrity, whole jat mass will be behind him/her in due course of time. There will be initial hurdles from some political leaders who will think that this some one is trying to become a parallel force.

Knowing our community so well, I feel the best way to begin will be to make a small dedicated group of just 5 like minded persons who can put their own resources and go from village to village in the begining spreading their concern for the community. I am fully convinced that within few months this will become a movement and people will start flocking to attend bigger meetings region wise. Results will be visible just in one year. Like Panch piara, let us call this group of 5 dedicated young jat boys as...Panch....??////

Rajendra

[rkumar]

[quote]Amit Dahiyabadshah (Mar 15, 2004 09:44 p.m.):
Dear Rajendra and Ravi,

Thanks for your valuable inputs and I shall update post number 2 to incorporate your inputs suitably .

One problem that i have experienced on jatland is a tit for tat kind of response to common cause. No sooner do you propose to do something, than some idiot dilutes the focus by immediately framing a parallel initiative or cause, thereby immediately dividing the energy available to brainstorm an issue to its logical conclusion.

These people are particularly active on jatland where they keep feeding their own midget sized egos and never see any of their innumerable projects and proposals through to any useful conclusion. I have tried to ignore such people in the past and even gone off the site for several months thinking that they would wear themselves out, but sadly that is not the case.

Let us beware of those who constantly go about playing their tiny little Dug-Dugis ( Little rattling hand drums used by bandar nachanewalas) confusing the Kaum, and distracting those who would rather do something, into attending their courts of senile self aggrandisement. Just look at the latest offerings under current affairs and you'll know what I mean. Frankly I am beginning to feel a little disgust now. But what to do about this distracting presence.

Regards
Amit

[Quote]

Dear Amit,

I can see lots of energy and impatience in you to do something really positive on ground. However, as a elder I must advise you to accept the world around you as it is. Its not a pefect world and this is why your efforts and everyone's efforts are required to correct the things from time to time. Higher the speed you gain to change the things , higher will be the resistence you will face. This is simple Physics. So don't be distracted what others think or do. Just keep doing what you think is right. I am sure with time you will have a crowd of well meaning people behind you. Let us move forward and come out with a plan which can be implemented within our resources and can be carried forward. All problems have simple solutions.

Rajendra

[bnashier]

Folks:

If we try to pin down one single cause that has harmed our rural people the most, what would come to your mind? If we are granted just ONE wish to be fulfilled by some angel, what would that be?

Drinking problems of alcohol is consuming our youth in rural Haryana. Thousands of families are being destroyed every year due to drinking problems. Go to any village, and you will hear hundreds of horror stories. Ever since those 'Sharab thekas' were opened near almost every village in the seventies, a road was paved straight to hell for our village youth. Nothing, yes absolutely nothing, is going to help our village youth unless this drinking problem is placed under control. Children’s school fee and other needs are going straight to the bellies of drunkard fathers via alcohol. This is a very serious problem.

If we can’t put an end to this problem, our villages will become hell we can’t even imagine. This problem needs serious attention.

[ajmer]

Folks,

This is a good start. I am happy that there are really some good hearted and wise
people on this site. I would not get distracted and take my eyes off the ball by some
people trying to curb some of the elite and wise people of this forum.

We all know about some of the problems of the community. We have discussed them
again and again. It is time we talk about some solutions. I know some very respected
people have personally taken it to find the solution and that is just great. But many of
us are not as fortunate for whatever reason to single handedly carry out our missions.

We all accept that education is the key. I would add that the solution lies in the awareness
of our folks about the problem and possible solutions.

We can't start with a very ambitious solution(s). Because we know how hard it is to
do anything in our community. The basic problem (which is very visible on this very
site) is the moment you suggest something, multiple other camps will emerge
simultaneously trying to do the same thing in a very different way. Everyone
wants to be a leader. That very problem exists in villages these days. The moment
you suggest something there are people ready to spoil it before you even start it.

Whatever solution we come up with, the solution has to involve people right from
the community (village). We have to find people in the community who have
influence, have some time, have energy and carry respect. We all know one
or more such people in the community. Then we start passing our message of
the importance of the eduction and awareness through them to the community.
We try to make them aware on how they can take control of the future of the
people. I know some such people (not my relatives, not very political).
We just have to empower them and create a communication channel to pass on
the ideas. The problem(s) can only be solved from inside the community and not
from outside.

Another very important aspect is to be always ready to do what we can do at our
personal level. Never wait for a miracle to happen because it is not going to happen.
Do what you can at your own level. Try to find out some like minded people, organise
and do what you can at organization level but try to leverage on an existing
organization instead of forming a new one.

Once we have agreed on a plan we can start the chat feature to get the action going.
Do we agree that "Improving Education" is the top priority? I think so. Let us start just
with one problem and find a solution.

I know this was a little off track from the search of a mission. But I had to get my
ideas out and I didn't want to start another mission thread. If this really was a
distraction then I am sorry and we can start yet another thread.

Thanks folks and let us work together.

-ajmer

[ranjitjat]

BHAI BADSHAW
KIS KO IDIOT LIKH SSS.
1 NOTICE SY HI KAM CHALE.
NAHI TO ELITE KI SARI CREAM NY MAKODI KHALIGI.
this is another notice & Final warning from moderators
thanks Regards
---------------------------------------------
Dear Rajendra and Ravi,
Thanks for your valuable inputs and I shall update post number 2 to incorporate your inputs suitably .

One problem that i have experienced on jatland is a tit for tat kind of response to common cause. No sooner do you propose to do something, than some idiot dilutes the focus by immediately framing a parallel initiative or cause, thereby immediately dividing the energy available to brainstorm an issue to its logical conclusion.

These people are particularly active on jatland where they keep feeding their own midget sized egos and never see any of their innumerable projects and proposals through to any useful conclusion. I have tried to ignore such people in the past and even gone off the site for several months thinking that they would wear themselves out, but sadly that is not the case.

Let us beware of those who constantly go about playing their tiny little Dug-Dugis ( Little rattling hand drums used by bandar nachanewalas) confusing the Kaum, and distracting those who would rather do something, into attending their courts of senile self aggrandisement. Just look at the latest offerings under current affairs and you'll know what I mean. Frankly I am beginning to feel a little disgust now. But what to do about this distracting presence.

Regards
Amit






--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rajendra Kumar Kalkhunde (Mar 15, 2004 08:54 p.m.):
Thanks Ravi. My personal experince is that jats tend to fall behind any jat leader who can convey to them that he is selfless, honest and truely care for them. Jats tend to argue first, but they accept the advice if its put properly to them. Unfortunate part is that they have been exploited by their own fellow jats often and that made them not tro trust many of seudo social worker jats. I am 100% sure that if just one of us takes the cause of jats with full honesty and integrity, whole jat mass will be behind him/her in due course of time. There will be initial hurdles from some political leaders who will think that this some one is trying to become a parallel force.
Knowing our community so well, I feel the best way to begin will be to make a small dedicated group of just 5 like minded persons who can put their own resources and go from village to village in the begining spreading their concern for the community. I am fully convinced that within few months this will become a movement and people will start flocking to attend bigger meetings region wise. Results will be visible just in one year. Like Panch piara, let us call this group of 5 dedicated young jat boys as...Panch....??////

Rajendra


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[rkumar]

[quote]Dharmpal Singh Dudee (Mar 17, 2004 06:36 a.m.):
BHAI BADSHAW
KIS KO IDIOT LIKH SSS.
1 NOTICE SY HI KAM CHALE.
NAHI TO ELITE KI SARI CREAM NY MAKODI KHALIGI.
this is another notice & Final warning from moderators
thanks Regards
---------------------------------------------
Respected Dudee ji and everyone else,

No provocation should be strong enough to stop us loving our fellow jat members. Only through love and consideration we can win their support and admiration. Being Jat, we should know how we are and how we can react to simple situations. Every Jat thinks he / she is a leader. One has to become really tall to be accpted as leader by other jats. Let us not feel uncomfortable when some memebr expresses his/ her views in a bit strong manner. I am sure, realisation will come soon. Please continue being good and considerte to young Jat memebers. Words of wisdom like " Kshma badan ko chahiye, chotan ko utpaat"...can be the best guding principal in life. Let us accept that Jat ki marod hai hi karod ki. Har Jat ko upna upna hukka lekar baithne ki aadat hai...It will take time to bring them under one fold.

Regards
Rajendra

[danarambeerda]

Drinking problems of alcohol is consuming our youth in rural Haryana. Thousands of families are being destroyed every year due to drinking problems. Go to any village, and you will hear hundreds of horror stories. Ever since those 'Sharab thekas' were opened near almost every village in the seventies, a road was paved straight to hell for our village youth. Nothing, yes absolutely nothing, is going to help our village youth unless this drinking problem is placed under control. Children’s school fee and other needs are going straight to the bellies of drunkard fathers via alcohol. This is a very serious problem.

yes its absolutly right , this problem is not only in Hryana but every where (in rajasthan, UP, Delhi) this habit needs to be eradicated.

[ranjitjat]

Rajender kumar Ji.

Calling other members IDIOT is not greatness.

REGARDS
Dharmpal

[rkumar]

Dudee sahib, I fully agree with you. Use of words like Idiot is highly objectionable on such plateforms. If you read my response, I advised Mr Dahiya somewhat mildly. I am sure he will realise his mistake and appologise for the use of such language towards other members. As a community we are going through changes and as you would agree, we are bound to make mistakes. As an elder give him a chance. Also I am requesting Amit to be respectful in using the language. Unity, mutual respect is the need of the hour. Together we succeed. On a lighter note, when jats talk, to others it looks like we are fighting. Its like how lions convey their love to each other when most other animals think that they are fighting...

Rajendra

[danarambeerda]

whats the matter, we dont know, please be unite dont devide.

with best regard

[nvedwan]

I think this little incident is a good indicator of why it is so difficult to accomplish anything-- when people are not even willing to communicate in a civilized manner. There is hardly anything that has been accomplished, and people are already launching pre-emptive strikes to thwart each other! Why? because everyone wants to be the next "great leader" or if you cannot be that,at least you can prevent others from getting any credit! This attitude is also called "my way or the highway", and has been the BANE of jat society since a very long time. and let's not, please, glorify such behavior in the name of marod, lion-like attitude or whatever. I understand that the underlying intention behind using these words is, perhaps, to calm passions down, but it also risks sending the wrong message, that " we are like this only". and then we wonder why people make fun of jats.

The eggs have not yet hatched (they are hardly in sight) and people are fighting over counting the (invisible) chickens!

[rkumar]

Neeraj Vedwan (Mar 17, 2004 12:34 p.m.):
I think this little incident is a good indicator of why it is so difficult to accomplish anything-- when people are not even willing to communicate in a civilized manner. There is hardly anything that has been accomplished, and people are already launching pre-emptive strikes to thwart each other! Why? because everyone wants to be the next "great leader" or if you cannot be that,at least you can prevent others from getting any credit! This attitude is also called "my way or the highway", and has been the BANE of jat society since a very long time. and let's not, please, glorify such behavior in the name of marod, lion-like attitude or whatever. I understand that the underlying intention behind using these words is, perhaps, to calm passions down, but it also risks sending the wrong message, that " we are like this only". and then we wonder why people make fun of jats.

The eggs have not yet hatched (they are hardly in sight) and people are fighting over counting the (invisible) chickens!

Dear Vedwan ji,

Whatever may be the situation, we have to make efforts till we make things happen
I know, egos will come, many other problems will come, but we can not let our jats be divided. We are going through some teething troubles. I am sure we will settle down soon.

Rajendra

[ravichaudhary]

[quote]Neeraj Vedwan (Mar 17, 2004 12:34 p.m.):
I think this little incident is a good indicator

and then we wonder why people make fun of jats.


***********************

The reason Jats are made fun of, is because they are perceived as uneducated, rustic , peasants.

The reason people can get away with it, because many Jats themselves do not have an idea of their rich culture and history.

That the vedas were composed by Jat rishis

That 60 clans mentioned in the Rig Veda were Jat clans, existing even today

That many learned sants were Jats, Nischal Das, and Ganga Das for example, yet many jats on this list also would not know who they were.

Our humble little Yahoo Jathistory group effort is showing that presented with irrefutable facts, the non Jat world changes its tone .

The Toronto Arya Samaj, recently included a summarized form of the 1857 war and Swami Dayanand, the the sacrifices and efforts of the Haryana Sarv Khap, and many Jats. Their source was the Yahoo group. They verifed it and published it.

This was a result of research of a great Jat Historian - Capt Dilip Singh Ahlawat.

My humble task was simply to translate it, and put it open the net and give the credit to Capt Ahlawat.

See URL below and followup messages

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JatHistory/message/1126

When I read Capt Ahlawat's work, my own view changed, and I was better able to convey anotherv view of our people.

Let us try not to beat up on ourselves, or simply go along with the majority.

Let each of us make an effort, and become aware of our rich heritage.

Let the secure base of that knowledge speak for itself, and let it refute the fun makers .

Each one of us , has to make some effort.

The rest will come

Ravi

[ranjitjat]

MR Vedwan & others
According following entry no 14 of MR Dahiyabadshah.
Every one who written in current affears recently is a Idiot.
Including you and many other.
Every one has some respect. please tell us dif between self resprct & Ego
We are not fighting for election.
Who are we and other groups.
who are some idiot. Who is Elite ???
cheers
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Rajendra and Ravi,
Thanks for your valuable inputs and I shall update post number 2 to incorporate your inputs suitably .

One problem that i have experienced on jatland is a tit for tat kind of response to common cause. No sooner do you propose to do something, than some idiot dilutes the focus by immediately framing a parallel initiative or cause, thereby immediately dividing the energy available to brainstorm an issue to its logical conclusion.

These people are particularly active on jatland where they keep feeding their own midget sized egos and never see any of their innumerable projects and proposals through to any useful conclusion. I have tried to ignore such people in the past and even gone off the site for several months thinking that they would wear themselves out, but sadly that is not the case.

Let us beware of those who constantly go about playing their tiny little Dug-Dugis ( Little rattling hand drums used by bandar nachanewalas) confusing the Kaum, and distracting those who would rather do something, into attending their courts of senile self aggrandisement. Just look at the latest offerings under current affairs and you'll know what I mean. Frankly I am beginning to feel a little disgust now. But what to do about this distracting presence.

Regards
Amit






--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rajendra Kumar Kalkhunde (Mar 15, 2004 08:54 p.m.):
Thanks Ravi. My personal experince is that jats tend to fall behind any jat leader who can convey to them that he is selfless, honest and truely care for them. Jats tend to argue first, but they accept the advice if its put properly to them. Unfortunate part is that they have been exploited by their own fellow jats often and that made them not tro trust many of seudo social worker jats. I am 100% sure that if just one of us takes the cause of jats with full honesty and integrity, whole jat mass will be behind him/her in due course of time. There will be initial hurdles from some political leaders who will think that this some one is trying to become a parallel force.
Knowing our community so well, I feel the best way to begin will be to make a small dedicated group of just 5 like minded persons who can put their own resources and go from village to village in the begining spreading their concern for the community. I am fully convinced that within few months this will become a movement and people will start flocking to attend bigger meetings region wise. Results will be visible just in one year. Like Panch piara, let us call this group of 5 dedicated young jat boys as...Panch....??////

Rajendra


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mar 15, 2004 on 09:44 p.m.

[nvedwan]

Hello Dudee jee,

I did read Amit Dahiyabadshah's message where he says that "No sooner do you propose to do something, than some idiot dilutes the focus by immediately framing a parallel initiative or cause"
and "These people are particularly active on jatland where they keep feeding their own midget sized egos". Later he compares "these
people" with madaris, and so on.

I found it highly objectionable but since I was unaware of the context, I didn't really know what prompted this outburst. It was clear that this attack was aimed at you for starting the other thread but it seemed that there was more to it than met the eye. Later, when Mr Rajnish (who, as we have seen earlier, also is not immune from having these outbursts) declared Amit Dahiyabadshah a persona non grata (in his grand capacity as "management", which I presume is higher than a mere "official spokesperson"!), it was quite clear that you must have pulled some strings to cause this hukamnama to be issued.

Now that you hinted in your last post that there is some sort of history between Amit and you (and others) on some (?) issues, I can understand this altercation better but still find it hard to accept that we can have mud-slinging like this go on publicly with no restraint.

I am not (nor anyone else, to my best understanding) equating what amit said with your response. Going by what we know (which is important), amit (or anyone) has no right to abuse/ridicule anyone publicly. and one thing which everyone has to understand is that in public life, brickbats are encountered more often than bouquet, but the response has to be to convince people, engage and debate with them, rather then abuse them, or dismiss them contemptuously. My simple advice: don't step into public domain if you don't have the stomach for the nastiness. It doesn't have to be this way but unfortunately it is.

regards
neeraj
Dharmpal Singh Dudee (Mar 17, 2004 07:05 p.m.):
MR Vedwan & others
According following entry no 14 of MR Dahiyabadshah.
Every one who written in current affears recently is a Idiot.
Including you and many other.
Every one has some respect. please tell us dif between self resprct & Ego
We are not fighting for election.
Who are we and other groups.
who are some idiot. Who is Elite ???
cheers
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Rajendra and Ravi,
Thanks for your valuable inputs and I shall update post number 2 to incorporate your inputs suitably .

One problem that i have experienced on jatland is a tit for tat kind of response to common cause. No sooner do you propose to do something, than some idiot dilutes the focus by immediately framing a parallel initiative or cause, thereby immediately dividing the energy available to brainstorm an issue to its logical conclusion.

These people are particularly active on jatland where they keep feeding their own midget sized egos and never see any of their innumerable projects and proposals through to any useful conclusion. I have tried to ignore such people in the past and even gone off the site for several months thinking that they would wear themselves out, but sadly that is not the case.

Let us beware of those who constantly go about playing their tiny little Dug-Dugis ( Little rattling hand drums used by bandar nachanewalas) confusing the Kaum, and distracting those who would rather do something, into attending their courts of senile self aggrandisement. Just look at the latest offerings under current affairs and you'll know what I mean. Frankly I am beginning to feel a little disgust now. But what to do about this distracting presence.

Regards
Amit






--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rajendra Kumar Kalkhunde (Mar 15, 2004 08:54 p.m.):
Thanks Ravi. My personal experince is that jats tend to fall behind any jat leader who can convey to them that he is selfless, honest and truely care for them. Jats tend to argue first, but they accept the advice if its put properly to them. Unfortunate part is that they have been exploited by their own fellow jats often and that made them not tro trust many of seudo social worker jats. I am 100% sure that if just one of us takes the cause of jats with full honesty and integrity, whole jat mass will be behind him/her in due course of time. There will be initial hurdles from some political leaders who will think that this some one is trying to become a parallel force.
Knowing our community so well, I feel the best way to begin will be to make a small dedicated group of just 5 like minded persons who can put their own resources and go from village to village in the begining spreading their concern for the community. I am fully convinced that within few months this will become a movement and people will start flocking to attend bigger meetings region wise. Results will be visible just in one year. Like Panch piara, let us call this group of 5 dedicated young jat boys as...Panch....??////

Rajendra


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mar 15, 2004 on 09:44 p.m.

[amitdahiya]

.... Just a little housekeeping folks , sweeping, dusting and cleaning up on the good advice of Shubha Chand Ji.. Got to keep the topic site clean after all it is on Jatland.

[ranjitjat]

Mr Dahiya
MY NAME IS NOT MR DUDDY.
Please not that you have no right to call people idiot and insult them in the name of mission to the kaum
You are no one to tell me my duty to the kaum & to this site
Who give you right to call people IDIOT.
Mind your language and buseness too.
Who are you to stop me writing any thread . calling people IDIOT & MADARI ????

[rsdalal]

Request to all members, please concentrate on the topic for which this thread was started. Things which are not related to mission statement can be addressed in another separate thread of its own.
Hope all of us will try to adhere to this norm, now on.

Here is my view, every villege should have one basket-ball court, Cricket field etc. Just like we have few Khade’s (Akhada) in every villege. That will help directly and INDIRECTLY to solve many problems and will be helpful in progress.

[amitdahiya]

Dear Mr Dudee'
Thank you for getting my name right at last. Your presence on this post is welcome because it proves one good thing.That even though you may criticise me in public in your heart you probably have affection for me and respect for what I am trying to do with the Mission Statement which involves every one, even You. As for the 'Idiot' remark are you saying that people can send me crude attention gathering notices without any down side for them. Forgive me Dudee Ji but I am not a christian jat and I do not believe in turning the other cheek. Pehlay Chhedd na nahi, Pachhay chhodna nahi.

Second how have you taken it upon yourself that my remark was aimed at you. Have you done anything to deserve such a remark , I think not, so why this bickering. Perhaps like two proud jats who do not know how to express regret for past errors of omission and comission we are unable to express our regard and good feelings easily and openly. Why not try, it cant hurt and I am sure it will benefit us and the site much more than the bickering and tu tu mei mein. Go on say something good or nice about me, maybe even that you are actually proud of me and I promise to take full responsibility for our past misgivings and touch your feet right here on jatland in front of every one. Go on say something nice please.and itll do so much good for every ones mood and social drive. Please Mr Dudee?

Yours respectfully
Amit



Dharmpal Singh Dudee (Mar 18, 2004 02:10 p.m.):
Mr Dahiya
MY NAME IS NOT MR DUDDY.
Please not that you have no right to call people idiot and insult them in the name of mission to the kaum
You are no one to tell me my duty to the kaum & to this site
Who give you right to call people IDIOT.
Mind your language and buseness too.
Who are you to stop me writing any thread . calling people IDIOT & MADARI ????

[amitdahiya]

Ranvir,
your point on sports is acknowledged now as part of the mision statement under point one of the Vision section viz.education and sports . Is it posible do you thinkthat each Khaap should develop a rural sports centre for its cluster of villages. to begin with we would need a design that could be implemented by villages themselves. second a year round competitive programme because competition produces results and not just practice. Thirdwith Govt interface and corp sector a talent spotting/scouting prog to choose fasttrack kids for special progs at sport school Rao etc. yr comments pl. and i ma sorry about the bickering but am working to mend old broken bridges .
regads
Amit



Ranvir Singh Dalal (Mar 18, 2004 07:58 p.m.):
Request to all members, please concentrate on the topic for which this thread was started. Things which are not related to mission statement can be addressed in another separate thread of its own.
Hope all of us will try to adhere to this norm, now on.

Here is my view, every villege should have one basket-ball court, Cricket field etc. Just like we have few Khade’s (Akhada) in every villege. That will help directly and INDIRECTLY to solve many problems and will be helpful in progress.

[bnashier]

Suggestion:

With 100% literacy, and 100% employment for all graduates by year 2007, it will be a glorious community. Great!!!!!

I suggest that we should have a public library in every village by year 2007. The library should be equipped with computers and internet service. All libraries should have books on Jat History. There should be a supercomputer centrally located, and with a database of all Jat families in Haryana, Rajasthan and U.P. The database would help, among other things, to match alliances for boys and girls.



Amit Dahiyabadshah (Mar 18, 2004 01:09 p.m.):
Your comments please on the following Staement of Mission, Vision and values.
__________________________________________________ _

VISION:
1. To achieve 100 percent literacy by the year 2009 and true bi-lingual literacy with English as a second language for all school children and assignment to a selected, dedicated sports stream from the the primary level. Win an individual Olympic Jat Gold within three Olympics hence.
2. To achieve 100 percent employment for all graduates by 2007 with a special focus on vocational employment and small enterprise in new and non traditional areas.
3. To achieve 100 percent responsible/ education based use of farm chemicals and 10 percent organic farming produce ( In terms of area under cultivation) and 20% increase in gross farm productivity within three years.
4. To achieve 10 percent reduction in existing litigations in Jat areas and 10 percent decline in new litigations (y.o.y).
5. To register a 10 percent growth in the total population of the Girl child- in the districts of Ambala, Kurukshetra, Karnal, Panipat, Sonepat and Jat villages of Delhi in the age group 1-3 years - within three years.


VALUES: Your inputs needed please in three areas .(pl specify which while contributiong your thoughts)

CULTURAL RENAISSANCE:
Dev' and promotion Image & Artistic ability (R.K.Kalkhunde)
Promote self esteem and History
( Ravi Choudhary)


CONTINUOUS IMPROVEMENT & GROWTH:


QUALITY LEADERSHIP, MANAGEMENT AND GOVERNANCE:

[rsdalal]

Budh ji,
Implementation is already started in this direction. That super computer Central database is Jatland.com. Now we have to see how it grows. Right now it has only matrimonial and indivisual members in database.

Budh Nashier (Mar 19, 2004 06:10 a.m.):
Suggestion:

There should be a supercomputer centrally located, and with a database of all Jat families in Haryana, Rajasthan and U.P. The database would help, among other things, to match alliances for boys and girls.


[/quote]

[bnashier]

Ranbir Ji:

Only a very few privileged folks (those who have computers and internet access) can surf through Jatland.com. The villagers, for which the mission is designed, need this facility and a library.

[quote]Ranvir Singh Dalal (Mar 19, 2004 07:51 a.m.):
Budh ji,
Implementation is already started in this direction. That super computer Central database is Jatland.com. Now we have to see how it grows. Right now it has only matrimonial and indivisual members in database.

[amitdahiya]

Dear Budh,
Books have aleready started collecting at a store in New Delhi. Could members list out any and all extra books that they would like to spare for the Kaum. A 10,000 bk library is opening in my village Kakroi on January 1 2005. Land is procured, construction completed and the books will be shifted there after a suitable person has been trained to run it. One question is whether there should be a token fee or not. I suggest we combine this with another two suggestions i.e. the one on rural education and the need for English based literacy. So the liberary could ideally be a reading club with some corporate business house or company sponsoring an English Reading Programme where kids and adults read to groups in turn and score points which can be converted into rewards. Have had a meeting with two companies lets see how it goes. But this library can serve as a low cost model for replication after we have seen its running for six months or so. Ideally money shouldnt come into the process at any point to avoid any petty controversy.

Your thoughts advice on this pl.

Amit.



Budh Nashier (Mar 19, 2004 06:10 a.m.):
Suggestion:

With 100% literacy, and 100% employment for all graduates by year 2007, it will be a glorious community. Great!!!!!

I suggest that we should have a public library in every village by year 2007. The library should be equipped with computers and internet service. All libraries should have books on Jat History. There should be a supercomputer centrally located, and with a database of all Jat families in Haryana, Rajasthan and U.P. The database would help, among other things, to match alliances for boys and girls.



Amit Dahiyabadshah (Mar 18, 2004 01:09 p.m.):
Your comments please on the following Staement of Mission, Vision and values.
__________________________________________________ _

VISION:
1. To achieve 100 percent literacy by the year 2009 and true bi-lingual literacy with English as a second language for all school children and assignment to a selected, dedicated sports stream from the the primary level. Win an individual Olympic Jat Gold within three Olympics hence.
2. To achieve 100 percent employment for all graduates by 2007 with a special focus on vocational employment and small enterprise in new and non traditional areas.
3. To achieve 100 percent responsible/ education based use of farm chemicals and 10 percent organic farming produce ( In terms of area under cultivation) and 20% increase in gross farm productivity within three years.
4. To achieve 10 percent reduction in existing litigations in Jat areas and 10 percent decline in new litigations (y.o.y).
5. To register a 10 percent growth in the total population of the Girl child- in the districts of Ambala, Kurukshetra, Karnal, Panipat, Sonepat and Jat villages of Delhi in the age group 1-3 years - within three years.


VALUES: Your inputs needed please in three areas .(pl specify which while contributiong your thoughts)

CULTURAL RENAISSANCE:
Dev' and promotion Image & Artistic ability (R.K.Kalkhunde)
Promote self esteem and History
( Ravi Choudhary)


CONTINUOUS IMPROVEMENT & GROWTH:


QUALITY LEADERSHIP, MANAGEMENT AND GOVERNANCE:

[ajmer]

Folks

Yes, library, internet connection and suports facilities are really good.
These are must for progress in education and also keep youths (and
others) involved and occupied.

At the same time, as Ravi suggested earlier on this thread we need
facilities to train youths for career oriented jobs. We need technical
vocational schools or education. As has been pointed out people in
villages have to think outside the box. Currently they think in the
direction of Govt. (police, army, DTC). Students (girls and boys)
needs to be trained for career oriented skills.

I think every 10+2 school in villages should offer ITI type courses.
In fact, those courses should be available to everyone (educated or
uneducated). The courses can be divided based on the level of education.

The best thing about a private business is that the entire family can then
get involved and contribute to the business. Also, the future generations
of the family also have a permanent place to get involved if nothing else.
That is not the case with govt. jobs.

I can think of some courses such as car/scooter mechanic, sewing,
masonary, painting, welding and so on.

Also, we need more technical education then pure sciences. We need
many more engineering colleges. In fact, every undergraduate college
whould have engineering courses.

Now the resources are already there to the great extent. The existing
govt. school system can easily be utilized for this. The school can also
be utilized for library, internet connection and sports facility.

Once again, making the community aware about the resources and better
utilization of the existing resources is what is needed.

-ajmer

[amitdahiya]

How about a wall magazine for villages. Does any one have any experiene or expertise on this subject.
Questions are : What Contents Size, frequency, design and layout, and logistics. It seems to me that this one medium may be able to highlight many or almost all points of the Mission Statement at a slow pace but with a long collective exposure to the maximum number of people.

Comments advice pl
Amit

[sanjeevmalik]

A successful project should have a very good, competent and dedicated team members. A good, successful project usually has a very good strategy, good design and a very effective implementation followed up by a good follow up.

A mission statement is a precursor to all the activities stated above. A good effective mission statement gives a guideline for decision making and to resolve present and future issues.

On Jatland.com, we have a superb set of mindsets with an interest to talk/discuss/solve the larger problems in our community. But as important as the mission statement and the strategy development is in getting a good and effective start in resolving/attacking the issues, an implementation of the strategy is much more important. If the implementation team is not as dedicated as the strategy development team, the end product is still a bad product.

How are we going to implement a good mission/strategy?

How are we going to make things change on the grass root level?

We can all talk and debate on the information highway but how will it translate to working on the real highways that lead to our villages?

May be I am jumping to the next phase (implementation) and the real fight of the resources (time, money, etc) is another point/issue to talk/debate, but what I am trying to do here is look at the problem from a system level and find a system solution to the problem.

I hope the mindset to change/better our society/kaum, doesn’t end up here by creating a great mission statement.

Thanks.

[amitdahiya]

Sanjeev,
Concur completely. Of course you are one step ahead of the process at this stage. The mechanism needs to be set up to implement the final mission statement what ever shape it takes. your post does inspire the thought that perhaps we need to plan one step ahead of the process to shorten the timeline. A few thoughts on this have been outlined in post no: on this topic and alook at it might help us to take advantage of your focussed view on this aspect. I would also be grateful to receive some details about yourself so w could explore further interaction.

A few thoughts on the subject:

1. Working title of the Organisation: Jat Mission Task Force.
2. One mobile team using a mobile work station equipped for tasks such as:
-Data collation verification and dissemination.
-Internet communication through mobile telephony
-Real time connection with Extension department of the Agriculture Universities.
-Desk top publishing for real time local print communication.
-Multi media projection and presentations to facilitate short effective meetings and working
groups at the local level as far as possible using unemployed graduates working on job work basis.
* mobile team would comprise a driver cum dtp and communication equipment operator.
3. District Laison Teams. interacting with NG's, District officials, community leaders.
4. Village Self Help Development team.
5. A Task force base team located in a central district or location.
6. Laison reps in New Delhi and Chandigarh to help shorten timelines on Government response to need and input.

Your comments and feed back pl



Sanjeev Malik (Mar 22, 2004 11:20 a.m.):
A successful project should have a very good, competent and dedicated team members. A good, successful project usually has a very good strategy, good design and a very effective implementation followed up by a good follow up.

A mission statement is a precursor to all the activities stated above. A good effective mission statement gives a guideline for decision making and to resolve present and future issues.

On Jatland.com, we have a superb set of mindsets with an interest to talk/discuss/solve the larger problems in our community. But as important as the mission statement and the strategy development is in getting a good and effective start in resolving/attacking the issues, an implementation of the strategy is much more important. If the implementation team is not as dedicated as the strategy development team, the end product is still a bad product.

How are we going to implement a good mission/strategy?

How are we going to make things change on the grass root level?

We can all talk and debate on the information highway but how will it translate to working on the real highways that lead to our villages?

May be I am jumping to the next phase (implementation) and the real fight of the resources (time, money, etc) is another point/issue to talk/debate, but what I am trying to do here is look at the problem from a system level and find a system solution to the problem.

I hope the mindset to change/better our society/kaum, doesn’t end up here by creating a great mission statement.

Thanks.

[mukesh_rana80]

hello!!
issues of education and drinking are really imprortant!.But, how good education will b possible if people don't have money to pay the higer fees (cost of good quality education),how many charity schools providing quality education do we need and who will contribute for it (how many of us are willing to contribute to a jat education trust and how much?)??
i personally feel that solution to most of the problems of villagers will be the prospsrity(money!),(once they have money many private schools giving quality eduaction will come into existance )!
issue is how to generate money (develop rural economy).for this we need not only to identify our weaknesses but also our strengths and at the same time the oppertunities available!!
can't we develop the cooperavies like AMUL in gujarat or someting of that kind??
how can we generate work (enterprise ,organic farming,export driven agriculture,crafts, ect.).once market driven production is there , work is there ,people will b busy in work and development then where will b time for drinking or any waste thing.
so, anything which generates employment and money will b the best and should b the first thing to start.

[mukesh_rana80]

hello!!
issues of education and drinking are really imprortant!.But, how good education will b possible if people don't have money to pay the higer fees (cost of good quality education),how many charity schools providing quality education do we need and who will contribute for it (how many of us are willing to contribute to a jat education trust and how much?)??
i personally feel that solution to most of the problems of villagers will be the prospsrity(money!),(once they have money many private schools giving quality eduaction will come into existance )!
issue is how to generate money (develop rural economy).for this we need not only to identify our weaknesses but also our strengths and at the same time the oppertunities available!!
can't we develop the cooperavies like AMUL in gujarat or someting of that kind??
how can we generate work (enterprise ,organic farming,export driven agriculture,crafts, ect.).once market driven production is there , work is there ,people will b busy in work and development then where will b time for drinking or any waste thing.
so, anything which generates employment and money will b the best and should b the first thing to start.

[sanjeevmalik]

I guess our community is in a catch 22 situation. Money brings education and education brings money. But education brings more than money. Education also brings power to think and analyze. Education should become the lowest common denominator of our community and not the highest common denominator. What I mean that every jat (boy/girl) should be educated till 12 grade and not a handful only being educated. The successful people should become role models for the youth in villages. The role models should go and invest their time to bring hope for the youth in villages by giving examples of how and why they succeeded. The change is not easy and not immediate. Education should become part of the upbringing process of a child or part of living of every individual.

Quality education comes from quality teachers who are dedicated to their profession. A quality education environment (part of our mission statement) should be made available to the every child. It takes the ownership of the parents and dedicated effort from a child to attain success. Tangible rewards should be set to motivate parents and children to have a serious take at being educated.

The youth energy should be piped/channeled to be productive. The youth should be involved to work in their community.

The question boils down to the same thing again and again. What I want to ask myself and others is what can we do to make this change? Only talking and debating on this issue will not get us accomplished in our goal to make a change in the youth of our villages.

Are you willing to take any ownership of drive/bring the change that needs to be done? If so how?

Thanks.

[amitdahiya]

Dear Mukesh,
I feel that in order to bring about a rennaisance in the deveopment of the Jat Kaum we need
to start all those activities for development which at first do not require Government support. There are many such activities. The Mission Task Force needs to first get all such activities going before any large plan is implemented. The small activities are necessary to promote teamwork, synergy, symbiosis and sense of common cause . All these words mean the same thing but they are used because the importance of simple measurable beginnings cannot be over estimated. So the money too is imp[ortant but subsequently when we have showm measurable progress without any. That more than anything will attarct the Kaum and the nation.

Amit.


Mukesh Rana (Mar 23, 2004 03:00 p.m.):
hello!!
issues of education and drinking are really imprortant!.But, how good education will b possible if people don't have money to pay the higer fees (cost of good quality education),how many charity schools providing quality education do we need and who will contribute for it (how many of us are willing to contribute to a jat education trust and how much?)??
i personally feel that solution to most of the problems of villagers will be the prospsrity(money!),(once they have money many private schools giving quality eduaction will come into existance )!
issue is how to generate money (develop rural economy).for this we need not only to identify our weaknesses but also our strengths and at the same time the oppertunities available!!
can't we develop the cooperavies like AMUL in gujarat or someting of that kind??
how can we generate work (enterprise ,organic farming,export driven agriculture,crafts, ect.).once market driven production is there , work is there ,people will b busy in work and development then where will b time for drinking or any waste thing.
so, anything which generates employment and money will b the best and should b the first thing to start.

[amitdahiya]

Dear Sanjeev your second post is every bit as profound as the first and i wonder what wisdom the third shall bring. with you totally on this but as chairman Mao said to Chou Enlai on the proposal to have some form of free market enterprise to break the ice for Nixons visit" Make haste slowly" There is not only a delicious paradox in that notation of the great helmsman but practical sagacity as well.
Regards Amit


[quote]Sanjeev Malik (Mar 23, 2004 04:23 p.m.):
I guess our community is in a catch 22 situation. Money brings education and education brings money. But education brings more than money. Education also brings power to think and analyze.

[sanjeevmalik]

How can we best utilize the resources we have?

Talking/debating/discussion/brainstorming is the first right step in order to trying to achieve a goal. But only if talking could resolve issues, the state of affairs wouldn’t be so bad. A sincere, honest, dedicated effort is required to bring change and thus progress. Most of us know the main root cause of state of affair of our society (jat kaum included).

All of us accessing Jatland.com are privileged users in one way or other. We have achieved some success in the real world or are associated to somebody else who has provided/paid to access to the resources (internet/computer/cable/dsl). We (onliners) have seem world from eyes of an educated eyes/brain in different environment (cultural/physical) outside the villages. We can utilize our experience/resources for a good cause.

We kind of know where we all as a community should be. Very Good. But lets take the ownership and pledge to make some changes in the place where it ought to be (villages, towns) and not just in our minds or on the Jatland.com.

The privileged set (all of us) percentage is very low compared to the size of the jat community. It’s important to have the right person to make up a good, dedicated team. It’s easy to sit in a cozy environment at home/work and pen/post few words. This is a good start for a change but this change should be carried/drilled forward with enthusiasm and dedication to uplift our community, etc.

I am not sure how many of us can pledge to become integral part of the "change" team, which will be able to work to bring some changes in our jat community to become better. If we privileged people cannot commit some kind of resource toward our own community than who will? Pledging can be in various forms like personal time, monetary funds, sponsorship, providing resources whatever it can be to work for a cause to better the community, etc.

Or we are all here to just re-iterate the problems (education, women empowerment, poverty, raising the living conidtion, creating jobs, etc) we all know that exist in our community.

Arise, awake and lets do just more than the talk.

[amitdahiya]

Dear Sanjeev
Your enthusiasm is so contagious. And while it would be fatal to this project to jump the gun and overtake the perceived process, I see no harm in at least drawing a few timelines to help assuage your need/thirst for signs of action, sooner rather than later.

In 2004
1. Drafting the Mission Statement. By end April.
2. Drafting a communication plan. By end May.
3. Drafting an action plan. By end July.
4.Printing and mass distribution of the Mission statement ( All Sarpanches and panchayat members of Jat villages. All school principals in Jat areas, All notice boards of Colleges in Jat Areas,All Government institutions and office notice boards. Bus stands, railway stations, waiting areas near kachairis , Tehsil's and sugar/ rice mills and mandis. By October.

5.Designating one Lead Village in each district to implement the Mission Statement as a showcase for emulation by surrounding villages. By December.


In 2005-2006.

6.Providing one reconditioned computer to an educated unemployed youth in a designated Nucleas Village to network for the Wall Magazine,sponsored by advertisingand to show case for emulation.

7.Launching career orientation mission.

8.Launching Village Education Minimum Quality mission.

9.Launching 3-S. village fitness and sports orientation programme ( Focussing on Speed, Stamina and Strength.alongwith a hygeine and disease prevention programme.

10.Launch the Interactive Rural Development Index for 10 villages per district for emulation by others. I delivered the Key note address based at the 2nd world Jat convention in New Delhi recently and it will be delivered also at every other event of the Kaum in this year. A presentation on this is being made at the relevant levels of Government.

For your Information and comments/feedback please.


Amit.





[quote]Sanjeev Malik (Mar 24, 2004 11:21 a.m.):
How can we best utilize the resources we have?

Talking/debating/discussion/brainstorming is the first right step in order to trying to achieve a goal. But only if talking could resolve issues, the state of affairs wouldn’t be so bad. A sincere, honest, dedicated effort is required to bring change and thus progress. Most of us know the main root cause of state of affair of our society (jat kaum included).

All of us accessing Jatland.com are privileged users in one way or other. We have achieved some success in the real world or are associated to somebody else who has provided/paid to access to the resources (internet/computer/cable/dsl). We (onliners) have seem world from eyes of an educated eyes/brain in different environment (cultural/physical) outside the villages. We can utilize our experience/resources for a good cause.......

[sanjeevmalik]

Dear Amit,

I know you have a good sense of direction for this project. I am no way trying to jump over the process. I know the importance of the process in getting things/goals accomplished. I am a huge admirer/supporter of a process driven project, though some people/individuals think the process as an overhead. As you have mentioned guidelines/checkpoints/milestones are very important to judge the progress of the project and also to have check/control over the healthiness of the project. I totally agree.

I don’t want this thread to disappear or lose its relevance with time. What I was trying to achieve in my earlier postings is to initiate the ownership of the onliners on the Jatland.com rather than just being passive commentators on the issues that we all know exist. No doubt, the perspective of our fellow onliners have given us some direction but I guess it’s the customers (youth, elders of villages) that should become part and parcel of the problems faced by them for this project. We (on Jatland.com) should try to help minimize/resolve the issues faced by the customers of the product we are trying to cater to really make a successful project with a healthy willingful participation. The broader issues like education has to be dealt with strong initiatives (customer/provider) and by creating a ray of hope/dream in their (customer) eyes/brains. This involves some success examples by the real people who have made it big though innumerable hardships.

Amit, the milestones set by you are great. But what I was trying to do is to create ownership of other suitable, honest, dedicated personnel to become/create a team ( A “Change” team). I am sure you single handedly have the courage and energy to drive the process/project to it’s successful completion but I feel a team of willingful , energetic volunteers to come/stand up and do something meaningful for our community in longer term. May be some of us are willing to do more than what is said on this forum but I feel a structure to it might be more beneficial. But that’s my viewpoint.

My writing/postings on this forum is far from complete and I am open to all critical comments by all and every member, as I see that as an opportunity to improve.

Thanks.

[scsheorayan]

It is nice to be important but it is even more important to be nice. In a civilised world people can have different opinions and talk freely about it without bullying some one. My request to all posters is to contain their personal feelings and show some respect for the community by behaving in a civilised way. After all that is the main problem our community is facing that it is losing it's culture and all those good things which come with it. Without some kind of order it is Chaos and wastage of energy. Each human being has only certain amount of energy which he/she can spend constructively or destructively that is the choice we all have. Let us try and use it constructively.

[amitdahiya]

Dear All
This topic is not an excercise in self aggrandisement or self projection for me, so please dont personalise this needlessly.

Thanks and regards
Amit

[bnashier]

[quote]Amit Dahiyabadshah (Mar 28, 2004 10:39 a.m.):
In 2004
1. Drafting the Mission Statement. By end April.
2. Drafting a communication plan. By end May.
3. Drafting an action plan. By end July.
4.Printing and mass distribution of the Mission statement ( All Sarpanches and panchayat members of Jat villages. All school principals in Jat areas, All notice boards of Colleges in Jat Areas,All Government institutions and office notice boards. Bus stands, railway stations, waiting areas near kachairis , Tehsil's and sugar/ rice mills and mandis.

****************
How about visiting some 40-50 villages and seeking their input in the mission plan. To find their needs and ways to meet them will be a good thing.

[chaudhary020]

friends,it's great to see the enthusiasm for acting to uplift the community.i noticed cinflict amongst the members during previous postings,which in fact is a natural and common occurence at the initial stages of team building and development of an organization.we should not feel disheartened by it ,as it shall resolve in the due course.
i agree that there needs to be a clearcut and realistic plan for the movement.it's not enough to have a goal.i strongly support the the mission to eradicate the iliteracy.somebody mentioned earlier that we take stock of the resources available,including finances,manpower and specialist intellectual skills.this ,i think will be extremely useful in preparing a plan of action and effective execution of it.
i ,myself am a psychiatrist with drug and alcohol addiction as one of my special interest.in addition i am also happy to contribute towards health education for disadvantaged.i suggest that we create a database of resources on this site ,especially professional and experiential background of potential volunteers.it may be easier then to prepare an organized taskforce.
best wishes to everyone

[amitdahiya]

Dear Budh,
Thank you for your proactive contribution. I am glad that there are some Jats who are not falling into the bad habit of doing the 'Ulhaas ' of constantly bringing down someone or the other while projecting themselves instead of some action oriented plan for development.
I agree completely and in case any one cares to list out every District with a population of at least 5 Lakhs Jats then we could nominate a Nucleas village in each and draw up a systematic visit plan with a data quest to make them Model/Lead villages for local emulation/replication.

Regrds
Amit




Budh Nashier (Mar 30, 2004 01:50 p.m.):
[quote]Amit Dahiyabadshah (Mar 28, 2004 10:39 a.m.):
In 2004
1. Drafting the Mission Statement. By end April.
2. Drafting a communication plan. By end May.
3. Drafting an action plan. By end July.
4.Printing and mass distribution of the Mission statement ( All Sarpanches and panchayat members of Jat villages. All school principals in Jat areas, All notice boards of Colleges in Jat Areas,All Government institutions and office notice boards. Bus stands, railway stations, waiting areas near kachairis , Tehsil's and sugar/ rice mills and mandis.

****************
How about visiting some 40-50 villages and seeking their input in the mission plan. To find their needs and ways to meet them will be a good thing.

[sanjeevmalik]

Optimism drives life and pessimism drags/(part of) life.

[bnashier]

[quote]Amit Dahiyabadshah (Mar 31, 2004 07:53 a.m.):
Dear Budh,
Thank you for your proactive contribution. I am glad that there are some Jats who are not falling into the bad habit of doing the 'Ulhaas ' of constantly bringing down someone or the other while projecting themselves instead of some action oriented plan for development.

I agree completely and in case any one cares to list out every District with a population of at least 5 Lakhs Jats then we could nominate a Nucleas village in each and draw up a systematic visit plan with a data quest to make them Model/Lead villages for local emulation/replication.

Regrds
Amit
****************
Amit Ji:

I would like to offer a couple of suggestions. First of these two suggestions is no provocative advice or chastisement in any shape or form, but a communication that we all find beneficial in our daily lives.

1. We all develop our own personalities and egos in life. Every step of the way, we come across situations and people we don’t agree with. Many times we misunderstand people and quite often we are misunderstood. Our character is formed by how do we deal with such offerings of life. THE MOST PROFOUND URGE WE ALL HAVE IS THE TENDENCY TO REACT HARSHLY AND NEGATIVELY TO THINGS WE DON’T FIND TO OUR LIKING. Peace and fruitfulness in a person’s life are directly proportional to the ability to curb this tendency; and to change ourselves according to need and to help others see things in a better way. It is not an easy thing to achieve; we have to constantly work very hard at it.

Sometimes we subconsciously end up saying or doing things that have no benefit to anything, but plenty of potential harm. For example, given the current state of affairs created by dialogues between various members, your first paragraph has done no good (to me) and it conveys a continual combative mode. I think the post (absent the first paragraph) would have been more effective.

2. To nominate any nucleus village is part of the later stages. First, the needs of the villages and people therein are to be known for the mission. And that can be achieved only by talking to people in many villages. Time is now for such talks with them. See what is hurting them the most. Find out what they would like to change. Find out how they can help in the process. They need to get involved in the making of any agenda for their needs.

[sanjeevmalik]

A success of a product is usually judged by its usage by the potential customers (youth and the elders of the village in this case). The customers have to buy-in/understand the philosophy of the change. The profit/benefit comes out only with some commitment by the users/customers. If the product is given free, usually there is little/low value associated with it. The value associated with our product can be the customers buy-in and their pledge/commitment to be a better community.

Customers need to understand that the real benefit will only come if the involvement is serious and work will have to be done by them also to taste the success. We as a team/project can only help to provide the infrastructure/resources and guideline to benefit from our project. It’s them who will have to take advantage of this opportunity and exploit it to the fullest.

What I want to understand is the fact that “Are the customers aware of the things that need to be modified (cultural/thinking changes) that will need to be brought in to reap the benefits of the project?”. Our mission statement should take in to consideration of the demands/request of the customers and also educate the challenges that will be part of the real implementation and success of the project.

As Mr. Budh Nashier has mentioned in his posting earlier and I also had mentioned in my post#49, a sample/interview of the customer should take place before the finalizing of the mission statement.

Thanks.

[amitdahiya]

True Sanjeev
Random surveys so far have resulte in the following feed back based on very small samples.

For the sake of development the community apparently is placed in three groups:

Urban and sub urban: Who are in the process of assimilating themselves in the urban cosmopolitan mainstream. Their priority is to shed as much of the cultural stereotype of the Jat and all its associated baggage as soon as possible. Their Jatness will not survive the departure of the present generation of decision makers in the family. For them the need appears to be a loose discreet connectivity to the clan for marriage and some social reasons and for pressure /influence groups leverage.

Sub Rural: Likely to have farmlands acquired . Crisis is how to invest sudden riches just biding time doing little to prepare for the transition. Urgent need is connectivity to perspective counselling and culture change workshops example Carreer counselling kids, interview skills workshops, intensive fastrack academic guidance and coaching preferably in small town entrepreneurial streams.

Rural: stuck in traditional cropping patterns very slow to innovate or embrace change. Villages dirty, badly drained, one solution is to start building homes in fields, urgently need education to access agri extension services. Need to attract new cropping patterns agri industry, educate and train land surplus human resource into service streams esp in the private sector. Need more sainik schools to produce officer cadres and also short course skill sets to tap into overseas manpower supply pools. Need urgent soil fertility mapping to match suitable cropping patterns. data available with univ's but not extended properly. 'If Mohammed will not go to the mountain then the mountain must go to Mohammed'. 99 percent of framers have never visited an agriculture univ- need a continuous reverse extension programme where farmers visit univ to ask questions and learn on campus thru interface mechanisms. Need urgent chemical appropriate use training to limit abuse to self health and consumer well being thru agri chem toxicity. promote organic farming in small holdings thru marketing networks.

Amit



[quote]Sanjeev Malik (Mar 31, 2004 11:33 a.m.):
A success of a product is usually judged by its usage by the potential customers (youth and the elders of the village in this case). The customers have to buy-in/understand the philosophy of the change.

[sanjeevmalik]

Very well said that applies to every individual though it has no relevance with the topic of this thread i.e "Search for Mission Statement for the Kaum".

[quote]Budh Nashier (Mar 31, 2004 09:22 a.m.):

..........
1. We all develop our own personalities and egos in life. Every step of the way, we come across situations and people we don’t agree with. Many times we misunderstand people and quite often we are misunderstood. Our character is formed by how do we deal with such offerings of life. THE MOST PROFOUND URGE WE ALL HAVE IS THE TENDENCY TO REACT HARSHLY AND NEGATIVELY TO THINGS WE DON’T FIND TO OUR LIKING. Peace and fruitfulness in a person’s life are directly proportional to the ability to curb this tendency; and to change ourselves according to need and to help others see things in a better way. It is not an easy thing to achieve; we have to constantly work very hard at it.

Sometimes we subconsciously end up saying or doing things that have no benefit to anything, but plenty of potential harm.
..........

[sanjeevmalik]

Now that we have a lot of input from the intellect minds on this thread, let’s try to word the mission statement.

As iterated before also a mission statement should be used to:
- set goals (example:100% literacy by 2010) and objectives (at least 10 grade education for every boy/girl, ),
- make decisions and
- provide the goods(reading material, schools, libraries) and services (seminar, talks, workshops, guidance trainings, debates, competition-sports/academic )

The mission identification process usually has three questions to be answered.
1. What do we do?
2. For whom do we do it?
3. How do we go about it?

Does anyone want to take a first stab on writing the first draft of mission statement for the Jat Kaum?

I can assure you that creating a mission statement is an iterative process. There will/should be at least 10 drafts (my guess) before finalizing our mission statement. No one writes the best mission statement. It’s a team effort. There will be mistakes initially and we will need your help to find out the faults/weakness/incompleteness. So don’t sit back and feel that you might be the picked on just because you volunteered to do something for the kaum.

Please don’t hesitate to ask questions, if you have any or send private messages to me or to Amit.

[amitdahiya]

Dear Sanjeev,

In every process driven project a moment comes when the objective becomes greater than the ego, ambition, the altruistic dream, and why even, the vision of any individual. Speaking for myself that defining moment has just arrived with post number 60 on this topic. I feel we have arrived at a point of synergy from which we can take off without the danger of an individual being brought down and taking the mission with him. Without belaboring the point the journey from post No:1 to post No:60 has not been without its ups and downs and this when the journey can hardly be said to have begun. But the spirit in which you have stepped up the stake holding is an act of love for the Kaum that brings its own reward ingrained in the feeling of service above the self. I am delighted to follow your initiative from here because it is the need both of the hour and the Kaum.

Good wishes to every one who has contributed to the effort this far. With Sanjeev taking up the lead on the drafting I can actually respond to the restless desire for action on the ground to move onto the building of the Mission Task Force and the logistic base.

Tagore said" Faith is the bird that sees the light and sings when the dawn is dark. Well people guess what ?its time to sing! thanks to the efforts of all those whose names you find on this topic As God is my witness , their emotional energy and intelligence is the true 'fuel of change' and the new strength of the Jat Kaum.

Good wishes and 'Bon Courage'

Amit

[scsheorayan]

Dear Amit ji,

It is important to get people on your side if one wishes to succeed in any community project. Let us hope senior management of this project have not overlooked that simple but crucial criteria. Why prohibition failed in Haryana is a complex issue. They say road to hell is paved with good intentions. There were good intentions but the devil was in detail. Let me not discourage you but I will dare say that let us come back on this topic one year from now and see how far your team has progressed. That is a fair dincum wouldn't you say. Good luck.

[sanjeevmalik]

Dear Shubha Chand Sheorayan ji,

May be we will reach no where with just a mission statement. But it’s a benign beginning at least in a direction. If one week or month in a village could have changed the face of the village, I am sure every Jat (including Amit, me and yourself) would have stayed there even for a months together even if there were the least of basic humane living conditions. You and I know that us staying in villages will not bring the desired/required changes. Change has to come in our thought process with an honest desire to make something better and how can we help to improve those in need. At least we can provide some kind of resource (materialistic/intellect) to our kaum members who has not been as lucky/successful as we are.

If your views are that this project is doomed for failure than why don’t you help us get back on the line/track instead of trying to dampen our spirits. And please don’t think that you are actually doing it. We all know the practicalities of the problem in our villages and it’s sure hard to bring magical changes. I guess the first change has to come right in the mind of us people before we can bring change in others/villages.

I take the problems as challenges and an opportunity to do something instead of just throwing negativism around. I hope to see at least one thing that you would do to better our kaum.

Thanks.

[bnashier]

[quote]Sanjeev Malik (Apr 01, 2004 10:41 p.m.):
Now that we have a lot of input from the intellect minds on this thread, let’s try to word the mission statement.

The mission identification process usually has three questions to be answered.
1. What do we do?
2. For whom do we do it?
3. How do we go about it?

Does anyone want to take a first stab on writing the first draft of mission statement for the Jat Kaum?

***********
Dear Folks:

Yes, I would like to take the first stab. Until someone ends up writing a polished statement that would really look remarkable and throw us in the golden ages of 21st century, how about working on something that
(i) needs no money to spend
(ii) will save lives and money in rural areas
(iii) does not need any statement
(iv) will do more good to rural communities than anything else
(v) and the rural areas desperately need it.

And that thing is the task of getting rid of all alcohol shops in rural areas. I can say this with 100% certainty(here is something we have attained 100% success) that there is no a family in rural areas that is not affected by the menace of alcohoism either directly or indirectly.

For this, go to villages and spend time with youths and other folks. Tell them what this alcohol and drugs are doing to them. Tell them to revolt against the shops and stop not till they are gone!!!!!

Conclusion: A month or two of your time in villages on this task will educate you more than you have ever learnt by conversations on Jatland.

[ajmer]

Dear all,

You don't have to go to a village to understand the problem. In fact,
the problem is evident on this very site. The problems, in fact the roots
of the problem, in our community are:

- Getting along (the ego) with each other.
- Pulling legs if someone wants to do something instead of joining hands.
- Skepticism, that if someone is trying to do something there must be
something he personally wants to gain from it.
- Negativism, that nothing can be done.

Now, I and many of you have spent most of our life in villages and we very
well know that this is what goes on in the villages these days. That is one of the main reasons the situation is not improving.

We all know that there is no magic bullet which can solve the problem(s). There is
no one person who can solve the problems or even make a dent unless of course
we can have Ch. Chhotu Ram or Mahatma Gandhi. Now either we can wait until
something like that happens or join hands and make an attempt.

So, as an ordinary person I am only looking for ways how I can make a difference
at my personal level and how I can contribute to a group/organization in such an effort.

It is easy to challenge others. So, let me also challenge everyone on this site to
find at least _one_ way how you are making a positive difference in the community
_and_ at least _one_ way how you are helping a group or organization which you
believe is making a positive difference in the community.

Now this is a challenge, a very simple challenge. If you can't just find one way how
you are making a positive contribution to the community at your own personal level
then you must not be trying hard. Also, if you don't believe that there are not even
a single group or organization which may be making a positive difference in the
community then you are probably too negative.

Now back to the mission statement, we should probably include these issues in the
mission statement as to how we can improve the social environment in the community.

Please don't take it personal. I really didn't mean any of it against any individual. I am an optimist and I truly believe that the community is changing for the positive. I have a great respect for people who have a passion for it and are contributing positively to the community. One proof of it that the community is changing is that we are talking about it on this site sitting at different corners of the world.

-ajmer

Budh Nashier (Apr 02, 2004 12:06 p.m.):

Conclusion: A month or two of your time in villages on this task will educate you more than you have ever learnt by conversations on Jatland.

[bnashier]

[quote]Ajmer Dahiya (Apr 02, 2004 01:49 p.m.):
Dear all,

So, as an ordinary person I am only looking for ways how I can make a difference
at my personal level and how I can contribute to a group/organization in such an effort.

It is easy to challenge others. So, let me also challenge everyone on this site to
find at least _one_ way how you are making a positive difference in the community
_and_ at least _one_ way how you are helping a group or organization which you
believe is making a positive difference in the community.

Now this is a challenge, a very simple challenge. If you can't just find one way how
you are making a positive contribution to the community at your own personal level
then you must not be trying hard.

Ajmer Ji:

I just pointed out a task to get rid of the alcohol shops in rural areas. Isn't that a good mission? What is the problem with that? Just writing statements on computers in order to tell others that they are negative is itself negative. One needs to grow up just a little bit to see the world brightly.

And, just for your information, in no post of mine in this thread I see any negative skepticism conveyed. If you have seen it, do point out. Writing these essays means emptiness. When you say that you know the problems in the villages, it would be nice for you to post any ideas or solutions. May be you have. I have not seen any.

Don't take it negatively. It is all a part of education.

[sanjeevmalik]

Thanks Mr. Budh Nashier on volunteering and giving your thoughts/take on creating a mission statement.

Mr. Budh has raised a very valid practical problem of alcoholism in our villages and an objective for mission statement.

Here are my thoughts on this topic of alcoholism in our villages.

Alcohol has been part of the human consumption since centuries or to say start of mankind. Intake of alcohol by humans can never be eradicated, according to me. Such harsh steps of removing all the alcohol shops will only give rise to the black markets. Alcohol consumption cannot be 100% eradicated but alcohol addiction can be. We have to be practical in outlining the goals, objectives and thus our mission statement. Our mission statement should be to educate the youth/elders of our community the disadvantages and bad effect of alcohol on the individual health, family and community. Alcohol should be out of reach of minors. The alcohol market should be more regulated and responsible while catering their products. The alcohol markets should be held responsible on the bad effects of alcoholism in the community it operates.

Thanks.

[ajmer]

Dr. Budh Ji.

I am not going to overeact because there is no reason to. This is only a clarification.

Budh Nashier (Apr 02, 2004 02:33 p.m.):

Ajmer Ji:

I just pointed out a task to get rid of the alcohol shops in rural areas. Isn't that a good mission? What is the problem with that? Just writing statements on computers in order to tell others that they are negative is itself negative. One needs to grow up just a little bit to see the world brightly.

I totally agree. There is no problem with such a mission and I never said there is. If you don't agree that there is negativism in the minds of many people then I respectfully disagree. I am talking about people in general (in the villages, in jat community, people on this site). Again, I never directed it towards any individual and most certainly not towards you.

And, just for your information, in no post of mine in this thread I see any negative skepticism conveyed. If you have seen it, do point out. Writing these essays means emptiness. When you say that you know the problems in the villages, it would be nice for you to post any ideas or solutions. May be you have. I have not seen any.

Yes, in fact I find your posts among the most enlightning. I may not have read all of your posts but I have definitly not seen the kind of issues I highlighted in your posts.

The only reason I included your quote is to point out whether you would have to go to the village or not to understand the problem in the community. I did agree with the rest of the post and that was the reason I didn't include the rest your post.

Don't take it negatively. It is all a part of education.

No, I am not taking it negatively at all. In fact, if we don't talk about it then there are bound to be mis-understanding.

Now back to the alcohal problem. Yes, I know this is a problem and it is certainly a good mission to get rid of it. But we have to talk about whether removing the alcohal shops will get rid of this evil. There are a number of problems with that:

- Fisrt, it is very hard (almost impossible) because those people are so powerful that noone can touch them.

- Even if we removed the shops, the youths will find something else, maybe even worse drugs.

I think we have to look at the root of the problem, not just the problem. The root of the problem is that the standard of the education is down and people don't have anything better to do.
The youths need something to get involved in. The solution lies in reinforcing the need for education and other activities (such as sports) in which the youths can be involved in. There is also a need for job oriented taraining centers in each and every school for those students who are not paying enough attention to the education or who cannot afford expensive higher education.

Let us not forget my two challenges - one thing we are doing at own personal level and one thing we are doing at group level. Any problem in such a challenge?

-ajmer

[amitdahiya]

Dear Ajmer, Sanjeev, Budh ( last but not the least),

The most effective model for corporate growth that can work dramatically with Indian employees is one based on a corporate philosophy like a tripod. The three legs are;

1.Culture Change
2.Continuous improvement and
3.Quality management.

The history of alcoholism has proved time and again that it thrives on restriction, regulation and denial. On the other hand it ceases to be a problem in societies enjoying high productivity ,surplus income and all round growth. In 2 thousand years of recorded history society has failed to handle only two evil scourges one the poorly understood abuse of psychotropic substances including alcohol and the other is terrorism from the small irregular force.

They say that an alcoholic can neverer kick the habit unless he first hits rock bottom. So does it mean that things need to get worse before they get better? Probably. But self defeating fear of the inevitable must not prevent us from designing and implemeting with vision and courage a simple blueprint of an alternative model of change on a scale where it can be emulated as a social model.

One of the catalysts we are neglecting is the need for a modern practical spiritual revival because societies in a state of spiritual decline are far worse off in coping with the abuse of alcohol, drugs and prostitution. But spiritual revival movements need to be steered from religiosity that feeds polarity fundamentalism and obscurantism. The strange decline of the Arya Samaj from Haryana has eroded vedic values from the Garh of democratic Hinduism and this has something to do with the spread of Alcoholism.

Your thoughts on this please....

[bnashier]

Dear Ajmer:

Of course, there is plenty of tug-of-war everywhere. That is why I wrote part I of my post#56. I appreciate your taking my message in good spirit. We all learn from each other.

Quickly coming to the point, indeed the education now is in ruins in villages. I went to village schools in the sixties for my middle school education. Teachers were sincere and dedicated, and all of them were from rural areas. All of them loved their profession. In the evenings or early mornings, many of them used to offer "extra" classes (free of cost, of cousre) to make that sure students were drilled well. Around 1970, Mr. Bansi Lal, the then Chief Minister of Haryana, decided to transfer all teachers no less than 40 miles from their homes. The guy must have been on drugs. The result was a frustration due to harsh dislocations. Students suffered and the education in rural areas got in shambles.

I remember when I was growing up in the sixties, there was hardly any serious problem of alcoholism in the villages. There were no alcohol shops around and people were away from it. Then, in the early seventies, Mr. Bansi Lal came up with the idea to generate state revenue by offering licenses to people to open alcohol shops in rural areas. Rest is history.

I must make it known that I am a non-political person and I refrain from making political statements. I don't know Mr. Bansi Lal personally; however, the above cited two actions of him have gone as "dark actions" in the history of Haryana.

Now these problems has become profound. Of course, certain things change with passage of time and the old innocence slowly goes away with progress of society. However, our villages went in the WRONG direction!!!!!

Now, my dear, it is a rather sad state of affairs in villages now. Life there has not kept up pace with social and technological progress of the last few decades.

But, never mind, not all is gloomy. We should do the best we can for those who are very close to us. One positive result is one more in count. Our brothers/sisters and other relatives are all in the Kaum. We should help them, and anybody who is in need.

[amitdahiya]

Brother Budh,
Point number (iii) under the first stab negates all the others and also this entire excercise. Is it serious or are you just being light hearted about it because it is time that someone did lighten up a bit getting pretty grim i was almost expecting a stab in the bk ( just kidding ) but do clarify.
Regds
Amit

[quote]Budh Nashier (Apr 02, 2004 12:06 p.m.):
[quote]Sanjeev Malik (Apr 01, 2004 10:41 p.m.):
Now that we have a lot of input from the intellect minds on this thread, let’s try to word the mission statement.

The mission identification process usually has three questions to be answered.
1. What do we do?
2. For whom do we do it?
3. How do we go about it?

Does anyone want to take a first stab on writing the first draft of mission statement for the Jat Kaum?

***********
Dear Folks:

Yes, I would like to take the first stab. Until someone ends up writing a polished statement that would really look remarkable and throw us in the golden ages of 21st century, how about working on something that
(i) needs no money to spend
(ii) will save lives and money in rural areas
(iii) does not need any statement
(iv) will do more good to rural communities than anything else
(v) and the rural areas desperately need it.

[bnashier]

Amit Dahiyabadshah (Apr 02, 2004 05:23 p.m.):
Brother Budh,
Point number (iii) under the first stab negates all the others and also this entire excercise. Is it serious or are you just being light hearted about it because it is time that someone did lighten up a bit getting pretty grim i was almost expecting a stab in the bk ( just kidding ) but do clarify.
Regds
Amit

[quote]Budh Nashier (Apr 02, 2004 12:06 p.m.):
[quote]Sanjeev Malik (Apr 01, 2004 10:41 p.m.):
Now that we have a lot of input from the intellect minds on this thread, let’s try to word the mission statement.

The mission identification process usually has three questions to be answered.
1. What do we do?
2. For whom do we do it?
3. How do we go about it?

Does anyone want to take a first stab on writing the first draft of mission statement for the Jat Kaum?

***********
Dear Folks:

Yes, I would like to take the first stab. Until someone ends up writing a polished statement that would really look remarkable and throw us in the golden ages of 21st century, how about working on something that
(i) needs no money to spend
(ii) will save lives and money in rural areas
(iii) does not need any statement
(iv) will do more good to rural communities than anything else
(v) and the rural areas desperately need it.

Dear Amit:

(iii) simply means we don't need to go through the pains of defing terms/words in any formal write-up. For instance, terms like "100% literacy" or "100% employment" need formal definitions.

This was the intent of (iii).

[ajmer]

Dr. Budh Ji and others:

I actually went to the village school for high school and that too
in early 80s. The situation was not bad even then. Most of the teachers
were sincere and dedicated. I remember (how can I ever forget) one of my
science teachers. noticing that this kid seems to be doing better than the
rest of the class, offered to help complete the full math and science course
on his own time free of cost just for me outside the rest of the class.
He didn't want me to languish while the rest of the class was having some
difficult time. That was mainly because other well doing students could go
to the city for their education while my parents couldn't afford. Now this no reflection on my parents, they did
everything and beyond what they could do with thier small land holding
and their two hands each. The journey from village Chhotta Khanda (with no primary school, electricity or road at the time) to
Silicon Velley, California in 10 years (1982-1992) was not as smooth as
it might seem. All that is now part of memories but the journey is very
much on. How can it be over until the rest of the family and others who
we care so deeply about are also not on the move.

Back to the question - why do you think the standard of education went
down in the villages. I think the main reason is corruption and not
Ch. Bansi Lal. I have heard mostly good things about Ch. Bansi Lal.
BTW, he did try the experiment of remvoing the liquir shops from Haryana.
Now I was not in India to watch the experiment but I have heard that the
experiment failed miserably.

Amit, no I am not forgetting the mission statement, it is just that we
need full understaning of some of the issues we are trying to resolve.

-ajmer

Budh Nashier (Apr 02, 2004 05:16 p.m.):
Dear Ajmer:

Quickly coming to the point, indeed the education now is in ruins in villages. I went to village schools in the sixties for my middle school education. Teachers were sincere and dedicated, and all of them were from rural areas. All of them loved their profession. In the evenings or early mornings, many of them used to offer "extra" classes (free of cost, of cousre) to make that sure students were drilled well. Around 1970, Mr. Bansi Lal, the then Chief Minister of Haryana, decided to transfer all teachers no less than 40 miles from their homes. The guy must have been on drugs. The result was a frustration due to harsh dislocations. Students suffered and the education in rural areas got in shambles.

I remember when I was growing up in the sixties, there was hardly any serious problem of alcoholism in the villages. There were no alcohol shops around and people were away from it. Then, in the early seventies, Mr. Bansi Lal came up with the idea to generate state revenue by offering licenses to people to open alcohol shops in rural areas. Rest is history.

I must make it known that I am a non-political person and I refrain from making political statements. I don't know Mr. Bansi Lal personally; however, the above cited two actions of him have gone as "dark actions" in the history of Haryana.

Now these problems has become profound. Of course, certain things change with passage of time and the old innocence slowly goes away with progress of society. However, our villages went in the WRONG direction!!!!!

Now, my dear, we can exercise to write these essays on computers for mission statements. Some of us can polish our writing skills, while a few can score points against each other. It does not hurt to pass time.

But, never mind, not all is gloomy. We should do the best we can for those who are very close to us. One positive result is one more in count. Our brothers/sisters and other relatives are all in the Kaum. We should help them, and anybody who is in need.

[bnashier]

[quote]Ajmer Dahiya (Apr 02, 2004 07:20 p.m.):
Dr. Budh Ji and others:

The journey from village Chhotta Khanda (with no primary school, electricity or road at the time) to
Silicon Velley, California in 10 years (1982-1992) was not as smooth as
it might seem. All that is now part of memories but the journey is very
much on. How can it be over until the rest of the family and others who
we care so deeply about are also not on the move.