OBC status for Haryana Jats ! Are you For or Against it?

[mbamal]

Personally I do not support an OBC status for Haryana Jats. Jats in haryana are proud independent people and claiming an OBC status will not do any good for the "Jat Pride" and independence. If Jats in haryana get the OBC status they will go down in history as OBCs. Backward Caste Status for a forward looking community of un-orthodox and hard working people. Doesnt makes any sense to me. It may give some temporary financial gains but nothing more than that. Other so called upper castes like brahmins will still get this financial advantage by getting reservations in name of "poor upper castes". Atleast they are not trying to get this tag of OBC. On one hand associations are named like World Jat Aryan foundation and on the same hand some Mahasabha wants an OBC status for Jats! If any JAT Mahasabha is trying to get this OBC status for Jats then that Mahasabha doesnt represents me. No thank you!

[bnashier]

As a CLASS, we Jats have not gone forward with respect to the progress during the last few dacades. So, if we admit that our villages have certainly languished and are backward as a CLASS (by no means they are forward using any standards), it is simply accepting the naked truth.

The youth in villages need ALL possible help. Forget the castes stuff. Talk about class and you are fine.

[sansanwalamit]

Well what is the point for such status, Jats in Delhi had recieved it long time back, and no body could ever make use of it, well firstly noone needed it and still I heard that those who had gone to get it were refused as they were told that they had to be financially poor to avail such status.
Thus I would say, if noone is going to make use of it then we should not go for it as it just gives other people to make fun of Jats by saying that they are OBC which is also not a big deal, thus, it really does not matter, I reckon I should not go in circles here,

[jagmohan]

Dear All,

May I express alittle different view on this issue.

Being born into a SC/ST/OBC family is no crime as this is not in the hands of the individuals but a matter of chance which many call 'fate', 'Destiny' or 'Kismat'. Even debating as to whether there has been an improvement in the lives of those who have been conferred the OBC status is outside the preview of this topic.

In today's world no one should be bothered about what caste, creed and 'Class' one belongs to. How does it actually matter? We have had all kinds of people from all kinds of classes. However, if giving OBC status to Haryana JATS means more jobs to the children of the poorest of the poor JAT families, I would welcome such a move. The problem will start when the Chautalas/Bansi Lals/Bhajan Lals take advantages of this categorization, as it has happened in the case of reservations. There is no point living in poverty just because one belongs to this 'Clan' or 'Khap' or 'whatever'. For those who are well to do it doesn't really matter.

If one believes that all humans are children of the same elements, like I do, then no status is good or bad, high and low and backward or forwardbig. After all there are only four blood groups, aren't they. I wish we would have had some sort of religious differentiation based on blood groups rather than what we have now!! Just a thought.

Regards,

Lt Col JS Malik (Retd)

[bnashier]

Very nice, Jagmohan Bhai.

Lt Col Jagmohan Malik (Retd) (Apr 06, 2004 06:01 a.m.):
Dear All,

May I express alittle different view on this issue.

Being born into a SC/ST/OBC family is no crime as this is not in the hands of the individuals but a matter of chance which many call 'fate', 'Destiny' or 'Kismat'. Even debating as to whether there has been an improvement in the lives of those who have been conferred the OBC status is outside the preview of this topic.

In today's world no one should be bothered about what caste, creed and 'Class' one belongs to. How does it actually matter? We have had all kinds of people from all kinds of classes. However, if giving OBC status to Haryana JATS means more jobs to the children of the poorest of the poor JAT families, I would welcome such a move. The problem will start when the Chautalas/Bansi Lals/Bhajan Lals take advantages of this categorization, as it has happened in the case of reservations. There is no point living in poverty just because one belongs to this 'Clan' or 'Khap' or 'whatever'. For those who are well to do it doesn't really matter.

If one believes that all humans are children of the same elements, like I do, then no status is good or bad, high and low and backward or forwardbig. After all there are only four blood groups, aren't they. I wish we would have had some sort of religious differentiation based on blood groups rather than what we have now!! Just a thought.

Regards,

Lt Col JS Malik (Retd)

[rkumar]

Dear Friends,

This issue came up earlier also. I am somewhat amazed that just for monetary benefit one will like the community to be graded as OBC. If so, what is wrong of those historians who classified Jats as Sudras? Why not to fight for becoming Sudras and corner all the benfits? Why stop at OBC? Its like a lion going vegetarian if he does not get to kill his prey by evening. I certainly do not look for a Jat community with such views. Jats are known to be people with pride and certainly being called OBC is not what I will like. I think its desperateness and lack of self confidence what makes one accept such titles... majority of Rajputs in villages are as backward as Jats. Let us address the real issues and not seek favours by downgrading us...

Rajendra

[chhoraharyanada]

Aren't Jats in UP OBC's there?

I think they have categories for it?!

category A: jats,yadavs,gujjars etc
category B: something else etc
category C: something else etc

so if its there in UP - why not Haryana?
surely it'll help getting better Gov't jobs etc?!

[bnashier]

Dear Rajendra Bhai and others:

It is always useful to indulge in discussions with rational and intelligent people. Let me now comment as follows.

1. Let us look at the way how a country or system should work. People make a country or system. We all need a pile of things to be done for a system to work. Everybody should contribute in a manner he or she is good at. If it is left to open competition, then that should be the only way to go. Then we MUST not have these reservations in the name of categories. We have these quotas everywhere -from admissions in colleges to jobs at the highest level. Intelligent and capable people get denied opportunity simply because they don’t have a particular stamp on their forehead. And the opportunity waits for a person who does not exist or would accommodate a person not as good as the one told to take a hike. How good is that system?

2. It we insist on placing these stamps, then anyone left behind in progress should be given a special consideration. There are NO CASTES here. Only classes, this gradation should be based on progress. This caste stuff is all a problem and not any benefit to anything.

WHEN YOUR CHILDREN ARE SLEEPING HUNGRY AND THEY DON'T HAVE CLOTHES TO PUT ON, THEN NO ONE HAS TO DEGRADE YOU - YOU ARE ALREADY GRADED TO THE BOTTOM.

3. A good way to avoid ourselves from getting trapped in these harmful circles of pride is to dismiss these stamps of castes when we talk of social progress.

Rajendra Kumar Kalkhunde (Apr 06, 2004 08:02 a.m.):
Dear Friends,

This issue came up earlier also. I am somewhat amazed that just for monetary benefit one will like the community to be graded as OBC. If so, what is wrong of those historians who classified Jats as Sudras? Why not to fight for becoming Sudras and corner all the benfits? Why stop at OBC? Its like a lion going vegetarian if he does not get to kill his prey by evening. I certainly do not look for a Jat community with such views. Jats are known to be people with pride and certainly being called OBC is not what I will like. I think its desperateness and lack of self confidence what makes one accept such titles... majority of Rajputs in villages are as backward as Jats. Let us address the real issues and not seek favours by downgrading us...

Rajendra

[jitendersingh]

Hi All,

Its one of the most controversial issues of Indian politics. Everyone know that reservation on the basis of casts and community is morally wrong, but the vote bank politics ensures that this will never be reverted.

The reason for the divide in India on these basis has really been the same issue, which has never allowed this line be erased.

Anyway I oppose the reservation on the basis of the caste and community. The basis should be strictly economic, and that too only in the field of education.

[mbamal]

I completely agree with Rajendra Ji. Claiming an OBC is not the only way towards economic improvement. After 20-30 years dont blame someone if he calls the Jats as inferior and backward people. Dont blame if the next generation of Jats turns out to be suffering from an inferiority complex. No matter how much liberal or socially advanced some people might proclaim themselves to be, in India caste and relegion cannot be seperated form the social life of a person. May be the professional life of an individual is aloof from these but definitely not the social life. India is a democracy for last 50 years but life is still dominated by caste and relegion. I am not for castes, relegion or race. I know that these concepts are socially divisive and biologically incorrect. But We live in a society and how others look at us is very important. I joined JATLAND because I am a JAT. I feel good to be associated with a community that is proud of its history, culture and traditions. Who would be proud to be an OBC? I do not beleive in Caste, but if something is so much instituionalized and well characterized then you cannot turn a blind eye to your official status in society. I remember my first year at IIT Delhi. We were alotted double rooms in our first year. All the SC and ST students were put togather and not a single SC or ST was given a room with general student. May be the SCs and STs dont beleive in caste system, they are only for the financial gains, but what about other people. Due to this segregation there was never a interaction between the general and SCSTs. They always felt under siege and even in hostels they lived in the shadows and never turned up in any of our parties or social gatherings. I would never recommend OBC status for Jats. What if the next yr some brahmins or rajputs get reservations under the catefory of "poor upper castes"? They still get the financial benefits w/o the tag of OBC?

[rohittewatia]

Just think of how many Jat Friends will be able to make use of this opportunity. It will be a climbing seedi for the youths in the villages to get employment. Our youths in villages are lacking in english and other skills. This would be certainly helpful for them. If they could get the OBC status of jats in haryana, you could easily see how many jats will be doctors, engineers, civil Services and other high positions. Infact this will be a developing step for the Jat Community.

[rkumar]

Ramandeep (Apr 06, 2004 09:09 a.m.):
Aren't Jats in UP OBC's there?

I think they have categories for it?!

category A: jats,yadavs,gujjars etc
category B: something else etc
category C: something else etc

so if its there in UP - why not Haryana?
surely it'll help getting better Gov't jobs etc?!

If UP has done stupidity, does not mean Haryana should repeat it? I know how how my daughters hate being called OBC. She refuse to claim any benifut under OBC.
Financial sigma can be addressed, but not the social sigma. Look at poor muslims many of whom can not have two times meal, but they don't claim OBC status. I certainly do not prescribe to this logic of financial gains and accepting the OBC title. I can quote 100s of examples where financial helps have not been able to change the status of a society or the country unless its people have worked hard to improve their lots. Look at countries like Nepal who depend upon financial aids..Are we competing with SC/STs now ? I can tell better ways of making money if thats what we want.

Rajendra

[rkumar]

[quote]Budh Nashier (Apr 06, 2004 09:12 a.m.):
Dear Rajendra Bhai and others:

It is always useful to indulge in discussions with rational and intelligent people. Let me now comment as follows.

1. Let us look at the way how a country or system should work. People make a country or system. We all need a pile of things to be done for a system to work. Everybody should contribute in a manner he or she is good at. If it is left to open competition, then that should be the only way to go. Then we MUST not have these reservations in the name of categories. We have these quotas everywhere -from admissions in colleges to jobs at the highest level. Intelligent and capable people get denied opportunity simply because they don’t have a particular stamp on their forehead. And the opportunity waits for a person who does not exist or would accommodate a person not as good as the one told to take a hike. How good is that system?

2. It we insist on placing these stamps, then anyone left behind in progress should be given a special consideration. There are NO CASTES here. Only classes, this gradation should be based on progress. This caste stuff is all a problem and not any benefit to anything.

WHEN YOUR CHILDREN ARE SLEEPING HUNGRY AND THEY DON'T HAVE CLOTHES TO PUT ON, THEN NO ONE HAS TO DEGRADE YOU - YOU ARE ALREADY GRADED TO THE BOTTOM.

3. A good way to avoid ourselves from getting trapped in these harmful circles of pride is to dismiss these stamps of castes when we talk of social progress.

...............................

I am against all Stamps. be it OBC or high caste or what ever one calls it. However, self pride can not be called a stamp. Seeking OBC amounts to having no self confidence and which is what I am against. A society which has no confidence in its ability can never progress. Seeking financial gains under the garb of OBC is like living on life support system and one can never win a race while being on a sick bed and living on such systems.

I am reminded of a story where in a village one old man went to some one house to ask for buttermilk. While he was having the buttermilk, his moustouche got wet. On that the lady told him to clean shave them and he did so. Next day when he went for the buttermilk, lady told that she did not have enough to spare. So tyhe poor fellow lost his mousteche and got nothing... We are talking the same thing. Where are the govt jobs? Time has come when most jobs are moving in Pvt sector. Who will employ people in Pvt sector based upon our OBC status? Let us fight our way up based upon our merits and strengths and not on the alms..

Regards
Rajendra

[bnashier]

[quote][b]Rajendra Kumar Kalkhunde (Apr 06, 2004 03:23 p.m.)


I know how how my daughters hate being called OBC. She refuse to claim any benifut under OBC.
Financial sigma can be addressed, but not the social sigma.
_________

Rajendra:

Yes, your daughters are right. So are mine. (And remember that daughters are always right! Okay!) You and I are NOT in any backward class now. We are pretty forward. We got all the facilities to provide to our children and family.

However, our next door neighbour in the village or even a brother could very well be in a very backward class - though we all are JATS. He does not have the means we have. He is struggling to send his children to school, while you and I can afford to send ours in any school in the country. We may belong to the same caste (whatever that is), but certainly not the same class. Observe the distinction here! No castes are backward or forward. They are just taboos. It is the economics or the means that are stupid!

Conclusion:

a) Either there should be NO partiality for opportunities based on any kind of categorization. Let the fittest survive. Let the brightest take the lead everywhere. I vote for this.

b) If the system is going to categorize, then let it be based on means and poverty level - and not on these taboos of caste/creed etc.
_______
By the way, I like your story about the moustache. That is funny.