Break up of Jats in Haryana - Dhe?Bagri?etc

[chhoraharyanada]

Ram Ram all,

I was reading this article in the Tribune on Bhupinder Hooda and it mentioned various belts existing among the Jats of Haryana.
( http://www.tribuneindia.com/2005/20050305/haryana.htm#1 )

I was under the impression that the crude break up of Jats was that Bagris were more dominant in Rajasthan, Deswalis in w.Uttar Pradesh and Dhe's in Haryana.

Mr Hooda carefully cultivated the Deswali Jats by arousing their aspirations to head the state. So far all Jat Chief Ministers, be it Mr Devi Lal, Mr Bansi Lal, Mr Bhajan Lal or Mr Om Prakash Chautala, all belonged to the Bagri belt. It was due to his efforts that the Indian National Lok Dal could win only one reserved constituency in the entire Jat belt of the state.

So who are the Dhes? What type of gotras do they have? Whereabouts are they dominant?
(As it seems Haryana politics has long been dominated by Bagris etc).

Regards, and RAM RAM.

[devdahiya]

Dear Mr Ramandeep,

I can't give out the GOTRAS but for sure what have you talked here is a fact. Rohtak distt, being jat dominated[ofcorse now devided in three ie Sonepat and JHajjaR ALSO] COULD NOT see a CM from there.

Regards

[nrao]

I am currently reading a lot about Jat history but I still do not understand the difference between Deshwali and Baghri.

Can you somebody please explain this difference?
Why are these terms used for Jats, within Haryana itself, leave alone UP, Rajasthan etc?
Are these difference of recent making or go back in time?
and most importantly, should I or we care about them and why?

[jakhar77]

i agree with u.
why we r making differences between us.
i think we should not use these words.


In my opinion All Jats are same.

[uday]

Haath ki panchoo unglee kaat ke dekh lo, barabar hi dard hoga !!

[chhoraharyanada]

i agree with u.
why we r making differences between us.
i think we should not use these words.


In my opinion All Jats are same.

Ram Ram Jakhar ji!

Difference banaane ki baat nahi hai.

I think it is important not to brush academic integrity under the carpet when doing a thorough investigation of one's history.

Understanding concepts like this may serve as an indicator into some of today's way/habits. Aur eh cheezeh aise kyu hote hai?

Regards, and RAM RAM

[chhoraharyanada]

I am currently reading a lot about Jat history but I still do not understand the difference between Deshwali and Baghri.

Can you somebody please explain this difference?
Why are these terms used for Jats, within Haryana itself, leave alone UP, Rajasthan etc?
Are these difference of recent making or go back in time?
and most importantly, should I or we care about them and why?

RAM RAM.

I was under the following assumption:

Deswali Jats - w.UP
Bagri Jats - Rajasthan.
Dhe Jats - Haryana.

Haryana itself divided into three belts:
(going north to south)

i. Punjabi belt (which incl. Jat sikhs) - Ambala, Panchkula, Yamunanagar, some areas in Sirsa on one side and some in the Karnal regions.

ii. Jat belt - central Haryana (largest chunk) - Jind, Jhajjar, Rohtak, Sonepat/Panipat, Bhiwani, Sirsa.

iii. Ahir belt - southern Haryana - Gurgaon, Rewari, Mahendragarh.

and there's other smallish places like Mewat (with meos), Faridabad (with meo's/gujjars etc).

Ab, acc'ding to the above mentioned articles the "over-flow" (for lack of a better way of describing) of Deswalis goes into Haryana into the Rohtak regions, and the "over flow" of Bagris from Rajasthan comes into areas like Bhiwani and Sirsa etc.

So - again, who are the Dhe's? What are their gotras? Where are they prominent?

Regards, and RAM RAM.

[aloknandal]

it`s not good to categorize ourselves as bagris or deswalis.we all are same.however even in hissar and sirsa districts we have bagri and deswali jats living in the same area and even in the same village.so there are villages where both dialects bagri and haryanvi can be found e.g chuli bagriyan and chuli deswali near adampur in hissar district.

[chhoraharyanada]

it`s not good to categorize ourselves as bagris or deswalis.

Ram Ram!

Categorize karne ki baat nahi hai.

Just to know who's who, and what's what!

But, I think we should all try to aim to be united - UP Jaats, Haryana Jaats, Rajasthani Jaats and Jat Sikhs of the Punjab.

Regards, and RAM RAM.

[nrao]

RAM RAM.

I was under the following assumption:

Deswali Jats - w.UP
Bagri Jats - Rajasthan.
Dhe Jats - Haryana.

Haryana itself divided into three belts:
(going north to south)

i. Punjabi belt (which incl. Jat sikhs) - Ambala, Panchkula, Yamunanagar, some areas in Sirsa on one side and some in the Karnal regions.

ii. Jat belt - central Haryana (largest chunk) - Jind, Jhajjar, Rohtak, Sonepat/Panipat, Bhiwani, Sirsa.

iii. Ahir belt - southern Haryana - Gurgaon, Rewari, Mahendragarh.

and there's other smallish places like Mewat (with meos), Faridabad (with meo's/gujjars etc).

Ab, acc'ding to the above mentioned articles the "over-flow" (for lack of a better way of describing) of Deswalis goes into Haryana into the Rohtak regions, and the "over flow" of Bagris from Rajasthan comes into areas like Bhiwani and Sirsa etc.

So - again, who are the Dhe's? What are their gotras? Where are they prominent?

Regards, and RAM RAM.

Ramandeep

Thanks for information. Here is something that I found on Jat Mahasabha web site. The weblink is http://www.jatmahasabha.com/home.htm. Here is a cut and paste of their explanation of this difference:

Jats live in Punjab, Rajputana and on the banks of the Yamuna and the Ganges. They seemed to have first appeared around the Sind, gradually moving into Punjab and the Yamuna valley and then settled in the Gangetic plains.

They were involved in colonising the lands around the banks of the Yamuna river and were gradually transformed into a wider category of warrior cultivators and semi-pastoralists. They were not a rigid cast, but a socially inclusive group with a remarkable capacity to incorporate 'pioneer peasant groups and miscellaneous military adventurers'.
Hissar, Rohtak, Gurgaon and Panipat, with their bhai-chara (co-sharing) tenures and the khudkasht (peasant-propreitor), were part of the Jat heartland. Two main groups of Jats that live here were the Deswali or Hele and the Dhe and Pachchade. The Deswali claimed to be the descendants of the 'original' Jats settled in the region about a thousand years ago, while the Dhe were later arrivals who extended their sphere of influence following the disintegration of the Mughal empire.
In Rohtak (situated west of the Yamuna), the Deswali Jats appear to have settled some seven or eight hundred years ago while the Dhe Jats, probably the descendants of immigrants from Bagar, a tract just beyond the border of Bikaner, moved into the western parts of the Hissar district around 1783 and took up the land abandoned after the terrible Chalisa famine of that year. Some of them came from Bikaner and Nabha in the early nineteenth century. The areas adjoining Bikaner and to the west of Bhiwani, such as Hissar and Fatehabad were called Bagar, a term meaning 'dry country' in common parlance. The term 'Bagri' was applied to a Hindu Rajput or Jat from the Bagar region. According to local traditions, it was a corrupted form of Nagri who claimed to be Chauhan Rajputs. The Godaras and Punias, too, considered themselves to be Bagri Jats.
While the Bagri Jats forged cultural links and matrimonial alliances with the Jats living in Rajasthan, the Deswali Jats did the same with their counterparts in western UP living on the other side of the Yamuna.
There were some Muslim Jats in the region as well. They were called Mula or Mule, a few of whom were found in the Rohtak. They called themselves Sheikhs interacted with the Hindu Jats.
The relationship of the Jats with the other groups was defined through their Got(Gotra). The Deswalis were members of 12 different gots which were further divided into atleast 137 sub-clans. Locally they were organized under the tappa system, a territorial and not a kinship grouping. The tappa was controlled by the dominant landholding Jat clan in a given area.
Among the main clans in Rohtak, the stronghold of the Ghatwalas (Malik) was at Ahulana in the Gohana tehsil of the district. The Dagars lived in Delhi and Gurgaon, while the Dahiyas inhabited the northeastern border of Sampla and the adjoining portions of the Sonepat tahsil in Rohtak and Delhi. The Rathi Jats were concentrated in Gurgaon, Delhi and Rohtak and the Golias in Rohtak and Karnal. The Dalals lived in the adjoining territory of Delhi, Hissar and Jind. The Deswals were more numerous in Rohtak, Gurgaon and Karnal; the Dhankars in Jhajjar (Rohtak); the Poghats in Jind, Gurgaon and Rohtak; the Sangwans in Jind, Hissar and Rohtak.
An important feature of Jat society in pre-colonial Haryana was the absence of political authority or a monarchical system. This was different from either Bharatpur in the South or the Sikh states of Patiala and Jind in the north. Generally speaking, the Haryanvi Jats, with their distaste for headmen and chiefs, had their village managed by their 'panch', a committee of elders.

[chhoraharyanada]

Hi Naveen,

Great! Thanks for the info.

Just 1 thing:

" While the Bagri Jats forged cultural links and matrimonial alliances with the Jats living in Rajasthan, the Deswali Jats did the same with their counterparts in western UP living on the other side of the Yamuna. "

I was under the impression that the Jats of w.UP (Baghpat etc) were Deswal Jats.

Correct me if I am wrong please ... if so, then what are they?

(I thought "Teotia"/"Tavatia" [like Col Sahib's gotra] are one of the more dominant ones from that region & that they are Deswal)

Regards, and RAM RAM.

[ndahiya]

Thanks for information. Here is something that I found on Jat Mahasabha web site. The weblink is http://www.jatmahasabha.com/home.htm. Here is a cut and paste of their explanation of this difference:

Jats live in Punjab, Rajputana and on the banks of the Yamuna and the Ganges. They seemed to have first appeared around the Sind, gradually moving into Punjab and the Yamuna valley and then settled in the Gangetic plains.


Very funny actually... Considering this is a rough cut-paste from our own history pages... :D :D

Though still, it would be interesting to know the difference in nomenclature...

[nrao]

Very funny actually... Considering this is a rough cut-paste from our own history pages... :D :D

Though still, it would be interesting to know the difference in nomenclature...

Yes funny indeed. It does appear on History page of our own web-site, I just noticed it again. But my copy-paste was actually from JatMahasabha web link - http://www.jatmahasabha.com/haryana.htm

Anyways, from history point of view there should be a better explanation than this.

[ravichaudhary]

Jats live in Punjab, Rajputana and on the banks of the Yamuna and the Ganges. They seemed to have first appeared around the Sind, gradually moving into Punjab and the Yamuna valley and then settled in the Gangetic plains.

They were involved in colonising the lands around the banks of the Yamuna river a


This is pure Irfan Habib, who pushes the theory that Jats did not exist before the 7th century AD.


Sadly many Indians, includng some Jats, accept his views

For his article and a response see:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JatHistory/message/1603

The response is a little technical, but worth the effort of reading through



Ravi Chaudhary

[gurjant]

"This is pure Irfan Habib, who pushes the theory that Jats did not exist before the 7th century AD."

Ravi Ji, that article is from Nonica Dutta book.And it was you who introduced her work on this site long ago. Bhuul gaye kya :D

[ravichaudhary]

Hi Gurjant

Her source is Irfan Habib

Habib was one of her mentors, and she is obligated to him for getting her in to the School orf Oriental Studies in England, and later the Miranda House job, she served first at the Islamic College, the Jamia Millia.



Ravi

[ramksehrawat]

I am of the view that the three nomenclatures represent the areas. Bagri jats are those who hail from Bagar (desert areas), Deshwal jats are desis (original settlers) and Dhes are migrants as the world "Dhes" means roaming tribe. Dhes are said to be migrants from Punjab or Sindh. Pure guess.