About Jokes on SardarJi's

[ashokkhatri]

Hi All,

Many of us post jokes on sardarji's and yet do not realize the harm they may be doing.....

I read an article recently.... which i am pasting here... plz add your commensts on what you all feel....

Thanks
Ashok


I hope you don’t mind buddy if I tell another joke, he said. “Of course not! I have no mind”, I said, as everybody joined in the laughter. “Once there was a Sardarji traveling in a train, and you know what……………”, he continued, I had already stopped listening, my ears were straining as I tried to shut out the loud guffaws already filling the room. The most difficult part was yet to come. I, a Sardar myself, had to laugh at the opportune moment to show that I was a good sport. Ahh there it is, the laughter, “Ha Ha Ha…”I laugh, “that was a good one buddy, where do you learn these excellent jokes from”, I complemented him. This was a closely rehearsed reaction that I had slowly acquired over my years of listening to these enlightening jokes spreading a light on my ilk.



During my adolescence I was not as sporty, of course. At times, I was in my sister’s college, with a bunch of goons, flexing my muscles, to put the message across to a classmate of hers who had sent her crying home for being a Sikh. At times, in college, I used to shout at the joke-er, argue my points and invariably walkout of the party in a huff. Being a six-footer, I could really put my point across with a bang if it came to that. And then my close buddies would chase and try to cool me down.



“It’s just a joke buddy, we all respect your community. You mustn’t be so narrow minded not to take a joke on yourself” one would say. “Only a community that learns to laugh at itself can be called a civilized community”……“look at Khushwant Singh, if he can laugh at himself why cant you”……..“Take the jokes as a tribute to your community’s fun loving nature”….the advice used to come thick and fast. And then my well- wishers would go back to the party, parting with a sympathetic pat on my shoulder.



I used to convince myself that perhaps I was wrong, I used to curse myself for being a spoilsport and would slowly walk my steps to the party only to see a hush in the crowd as I stepped in, as the flow of their jokes stopped midway. Of course they didn’t want to continue the jokes in my presence, they could always wait for the joke to finish till I was not around. I slowly mingled in the crowd trying to put everybody at ease. Such incidents continued and my ambivalence reduced. Perhaps I was maturing as a person. At least my adolescence memories are not as bad as those from my childhood!



I still remember my childhood days when I was in school. The lone Sardarji in a class of fifty, perhaps the only one in my school. My school, for me, was the best school in the world, the teachers were great, the playgrounds were beckoning and I led the class academically. Everything was great and I used to come home with a glee on my face, except those days when the whole class would start laughing at me as the clock turned twelve. Sardarji ke barah baj gaye, Sometimes they even pulled at my hairs to clarify what they meant. I never could understand the linkage between the clock and me, but I used to dread the dong of the bell as it struck the noon hour. And when I used to come home crying, my Mom would take me in her arms and tell me tales of valour of the Sikh warriors, tales that told me of days of plunder and gore by the then rulers amongst the hindu masses. Tales of how the militant wing of the masses – the Sikhs – retaliated at midnoon or midnight and rescued the kidnapped women from their clutches, when the guards were asleep. She told me how the rulers of that age began to dread the clock at twelve for fear of Sikh attacks, and somehow their fearful exclamation had evolved into this sarcastic remark. Little comfort it was to my little soul then! I wanted to shout at the top of my voice, and tell all my classmates my mom’s tales, if only anybody cared to listen. The clock kept on striking twelve and my mates kept on having fun at my expense, if they could not put me down any other way, this was the best way to shut me down for good, at least for an hour.



The clock still strikes twelve as I work in my office in a reputed company, and there is still the occasional ‘barah baj gaye’ remark from my officers when I make a mistake, or from my subordinates when I lose my temper around that time. There is still the occasional round of jokes that portray my community as a bunch of morons who don’t know the left hand from right. Sitting across the table with my colleagues, I am supposed to appreciate the jokes and laugh intelligently at the opportune moment.



Much water has flown over the bridge since the reality of being the butt of jokes really struck me. What the heck! I can’t change the world. I can take such things in the stride, if I am to avoid strife with my colleagues and friends.



The only times that I still retaliate is when I am a part of some family gatherings and I feel a joke directed at my father. I still feel that portraying my community as a bunch of jokers, is an insult to my entire ancestry, my father, my grandfather and great grandfather who fought for the country, and the gurus who gave their life to protect the meek.



The circle of falsehood needs to be stopped. I have never ceased to marvel at the sheer capacity of these jokes to propagate even amongst five-year-old children. Perhaps it is the enlightened parents who inculcate their sanskar amongst their children.



Or is it the media that has its share of fun? I have been meekly watching entire Sardarji jokes sections in reputed internet portals, like Indiatimes.com (and even on Pakistani portals – who take these jokes invented in India to a higher plane) I have been watching chain e-mails with Sardarji jokes circulating all over the net. And I have been seeing sickening Sardarji jokes in reputed newspapers.



Very often these jokes tend to propagate as just another innocent fascia of secular India, without a second thought to the people being laughed at, without a thought to their impact on impressionable minds, and without a thought to the insulting overtones they may acquire in the hands of a fundamentalist.



Please spare future generations from these jokes! Please don’t propagate such jokes, especially amongst children! Do we want to continue inculcating this culture of racist remarks amongst our children!



I have learnt to take the jokes as a fact of life, but I don’t want my son to come home crying. The joke is on us, but please spare our children their tears!

[srajdeep]

Ok Lets bring the discussion/argument/fight to this post and leave the Humor section alone.

I will start with outlining people's feelings so far.

1) We shouldn't make jokes on Sardars or on any other community. We should respect people's feelings.
2) Ashok had posted a good article to start this discussion, which no one wanted to read or comment on. If we had read and commented on it we might have avoided the whole argument.
3) Sandeep needs hair cut (which is cheaper in India ) and need do at least two more semester of English class.
4) There are more Hindu homosexuals than Sikhs (I assume all of them are hetro) in Washington DC. (I have no idea how someone found out if a Indian looking guy is homosexual and if he is whether he is Hindu or not, but I will accept the numbers).
5) Most of us love to piss others off :-) and will find a way of doing so.


So lets some serious discussion now. [please understand that I am expressing my feelings here which might hurt someone's feelings and if it does please excuse me and let me know and I will send a formal apology email]

Usually telling jokes is a way of breaking ice and starting conversation when you meet new people. Also when we hear something which makes us laugh we like to share it with our friends. But everyone has a unique sense of humor and what I find funny might not be funny to others. So before telling a joke we should respect the feelings of those surrounding us which most of us do. For example: I think most people on this site has at least once in their life told a sexual joke to their buddies and laughed but I don't think any of us has told the same joke in front of their female friends or their parents. Same goes with Sardar/Chamar/Jat jokes. I don't think anyone ever told a Sardar joke to a Sardar stranger (if you did please share with us how many bones were broken).
It is harder to observe (force) same behavior on on line discussion forums. First we don't know everyone there but know enough people and think of them as friends and want to share a good joke(which we think is good) with them. but there are other people too who might read the same post and might get offended.

So lets find out what offend people and then ask the administrator to put those things as guidelines and if someone doesn't follow those rules his joke will get deleted.

I like most jokes [as long as I could hear them with my sister (she is also a member of this site) ].

[ratananmol]

2) Ashok had posted a good article to start this discussion, which no one wanted to read or comment on. If we had read and commented on it we might have avoided the whole argument.

Posts do get missed sometimes; i missed the original post but read this one carefully. It was unfortunate that Sandeep got singled out but most posters of these things are callous loose guns. I am not sure how do we expect things to change without even trying to stop this kind of thing. Doing padyatra?


3) Sandeep needs hair cut (which is cheaper in India ) and need do at least two more semester of English class.

Well he asked if there is something personal and both him and most readers missed the point. By saying you need a haircut i trivialized the suspicion that there was something personal. We need to have a bare minimum level of understanding of language before we start engaging in useful conversation or else we are wasting time; bina baat aapne kapde phado aur phir Raju bhai jaise maidan me refree ban jayenge.

4) There are more Hindu homosexuals than Sikhs (I assume all of them are hetro) in Washington DC. (I have no idea how someone found out if a Indian looking guy is homosexual and if he is whether he is Hindu or not, but I will accept the numbers).

By the law of large numbers there are more hindus than sikhs so my analogy holds true universally. If doubts persist i can direct ppl to webpages flaunting their new found freedom.

5) Most of us love to piss others off :-) and will find a way of doing so.


Let us rephrase slightly; most of us love to enjoy even if it comes at the expense of other person. Our new found love is the "patriotic masalmaan of india" and the "dirty rich Sikh" is funny anyway. Let me not continue telling history but is there any comparison? I forgot a small useful story which comes from panctantra before i started this Jat sudhar campaign:
Once two sparrows advised a monkey drenched in rain to try and build a house; they had small nests in which they used to protect themselves. They thought they had done a favor to the monkey by giving him right advice but by the time they came back in the evening their nests were gone.
Let the sardar who wrote the story ashok has cited keep crying for your mercy and it is okay to have icebreaker jokes even if it comes at the expense of somebody's selfrespect, dignity and very existence. (mind you there is difference in attacking race versus attacking religion as we tend to do it in these sardar jokes.)

Yaar juggu (i have nicknamed my andhrite roomate after the terrorist Jagtar singh hawara caught by indian police last month) kuch roti pani kha lain? Aagli bar indian store se bournvita bhi lana padega. (Aka Poonam)

[brad]

agreed with anmol ratan, no sardar jokes, no gujju jokes, no tau jokes, no gulti jokes,no gora admi jokes.basically no jokes that has anything to do with india or US(we are earning and studying here, so we should not hurt their sensibilties too). ok lets include other countries too, bcos we do business with them, we fly over them. no be fair to animal lovers, no jokes that has any animal characters in it will be cruel and derogatory to them. And obviously for gender equality, sexuality of no charcters in the joke should be disclosed. no physical, mental or spiritual charctersistics of the persons inovolved should be described or made fun of. to be fair and show ur support and appreciation for the effort to make you laugh, at the end of the joke, everyone should laugh, else it will be considered as descriminatory behaviour.
In short no jokes pls, we all are good humans and dont want to hurt any body and go to hell. Humor is an ancient custom perpetuated by a few to hurt and torture the souls of all good persons. In the modern, advanced civilised society of total political correctness, such barbaric inhuman rituals of the dark ages should not be tolerated.

So, its my humble request to the admin of this site to remove the humor section, the continuation of which reflects poorly on the Jat community and shows them to be out of step with modern progressive thinking.

[captmanjeet]

agreed with anmol ratan, no sardar jokes, no gujju jokes, no tau jokes, no gulti jokes,no gora admi jokes.basically no jokes that has anything to do with india or US(we are earning and studying here, so we should not hurt their sensibilties too). ok lets include other countries too, bcos we do business with them, we fly over them. no be fair to animal lovers, no jokes that has any animal characters in it will be cruel and derogatory to them. And obviously for gender equality, sexuality of no charcters in the joke should be disclosed. no physical, mental or spiritual charctersistics of the persons inovolved should be described or made fun of. to be fair and show ur support and appreciation for the effort to make you laugh, at the end of the joke, everyone should laugh, else it will be considered as descriminatory behaviour.
In short no jokes pls, we all are good humans and dont want to hurt any body and go to hell. Humor is an ancient custom perpetuated by a few to hurt and torture the souls of all good persons. In the modern, advanced civilised society of total political correctness, such barbaric inhuman rituals of the dark ages should not be tolerated.

So, its my humble request to the admin of this site to remove the humor section, the continuation of which reflects poorly on the Jat community and shows them to be out of step with modern progressive thinking.
well said sir,
it is more important to keep humor in its spirits thentaking it more personnel.

[ratananmol]

Bhai Dudi: Mujhe lagta hai ke panchtantra wala bandar abki bar un chidiyon to jaan se hi maar dega....

[sandeep.dahiya]

Hi all,

From the previous thread i would like to say that i have written the joke so that people can laugh not to heart someone's feelings. up to now i feel that I did't commit any mistake. but as the discussion is going on so you people will decide wheather i am right or wrong. if I will proved wrong i will definatly apologise for my mistake. I am not saying that anmol is wrong at his point but his way of blaming me is wrong. Satyapal bhai is very right that anmol's comment has't change 1% of my views.

I am totally agree that we should not heart someone's self respect. but in jokes our motto is not that. if we think these types of things, no one can create jokes. surender sharma always tell jokes on himself and his wife and i think he is not hearting his wife feelings.

[ratananmol]

Dear Sandeep:
i admit it is an emotional issue and the subjective judgements bind us to our respective stands but i did not meant to heart you in any way...as you might have realized by now.(you and most ppl think i became personal but i am not taking it personally.)
At the end of the day you will do what you like and ppl who enjoy this stuff tend to ignore the invisible harm to others...but as a set of civilized people we have responsibilities and not just rights.
I think you will rethink your stand.
Anmol.

[jitendershooda]

Dear Sandeep:
(you and most ppl think i became personal but i am not taking it personally.)
Anmol.

Bhai Anmol aur te baat theek sein saari .... par mere nu samajh mein na aai ke baat sardaran ki er tun likhe ke tha ....

"Dear you missed the point....learn more english...dont behave like sundu"

"so email me after you have done at least a 2 semester course in english comprehension."

Yaar do you feel these are good words from you ...... Re bhai baat hude tahi rakhya karo jo topic chal rahya ho ... ke aagle pachle ron lag jao ho sari ....

I am not saying anything about your views only I would request you to not to be personal in such debates ....

( Er haan sujhav tha bas yo ......... er bhai kite aangreji mein kime kami rahe jya te jhoh mein mat aaiye Nu bata diye ek ya line nu likhya karen ... )

Sandeep is responding in too much limits and now again what a good reply here is

Hi all,

From the previous thread i would like to say that i have written the joke so that people can laugh not to heart someone's feelings. up to now i feel that I did't commit any mistake. but as the discussion is going on so you people will decide wheather i am right or wrong. if I will proved wrong i will definatly apologise for my mistake.


Baki saari baat indirectly dudi ji ne kahe di ....

[ratananmol]

dear hooda ji:
meri typing speed is very slow and it is very tiring to engage in a conversation where people get you exactly the other way round.
maine logo se responsibility ki liye kaha hai....na maane to inki marji.
Bhai mujhe oracle aadi ka gyan nahi aur mein lagun oracle me gana gane(singing song) to behtar hoga ki main pehle oracle sikhon...bolo thik ya galat...isme personal hone ki kya baat hai.
AR.
(bhai muuche to hooda jaisi)

[jagmohan]

Dear All,

We are again digressing. Let us discuss the topic.

Before I give my view let me just say a few things. I know those of you who served in the Armed Forces would agree with me. Humor is considered to be a very important trait for all those who want to be leaders in whatever field. Having spent almost 85% of my life away from home and with persons belonging to different caste, creed & religion, I can say with some authority that I have heard the crudest, harshest & funniest jokes about Sardars from Sardars themselves. The JAT Sikhs have jokes on Majhabi Sikhs/Bhappa Sikhs/Namdhari Sikhs and vice versa. The Patiala vs Amritsar Jokes will make even the most crude jokes about 'Pedro' seem like prose. And have you heard the jokes about the 'Giani's' cracked by Sardars?

Having served with The Sikh Regiment (Jat Sikhs) & Sikh Light Infantry (Majhabi Sikhs), I know the kind of jokes and/or discrimination that exists. I was commissioned in Jammu & Kashmir Light Infantry and we had a SIKH LI 'paltan' located in the same Brigade in Gwalior in 1982-83. We also have JAK RIF ie Jammu & kashmir Rifles (very different from JAK LI). During inter battalion hockey match in Gwalior something extraordinary happened that I remember to this day. During half time one burly Sardar from SiKH LI team came to me and offered me water. I told him that we are carrying our own and I thanked him for his gesture. You know what he said? He said "O Saheb ki farak painda he, assi bhi chuhde te tussi bhi". I somehow couldn't make the connection. Later in the evening I asked one of my friends who was serving in that Paltan as to why his hockey player had made that statement. He laughed aloud and said that just like the difference in Sikh & Sikh LI regiments, his troops thought that JAK RIF has upper castes people from J & K, while JAK LI had scheduled castes!!! I too laughed.

Though Sikh 'Dharam' is considered to be unique and all equal, the truth is different. Till few years back 'Jawans' from SIKH paltan didn't accept even Tea from SIKH LI troops.

What I am trying to say is that let's not equate respect we should have for other communities with the kind of jokes that are cracked, by themselves and others. Yes, I am totally against any kind of jokes that hurt the religious sentiments of others. And like I keep saying, we are all educated people here (equating education with knowing how to operate a computer, though it need not be so), let us laugh in the 'Humor Section' and debate issues that are somehow stopping us from advancing rapidly towards social harmony, tolerance and attaining our rightful place in the communities.

Regards,

JS Malik

[ratananmol]

Dear Malik Uncle:
Your post provides the unique practical window of what might be true for the army. We are a culture not free from caste biases (you would admit that the attitude of Jats towards "Chamars" and other backward classes reflects this bias in subtle ways). A few days ago Mr. Sharma had asked a question related to his identity (since sharmas are not per se jats but his parents have told him otherwise) and he was brutally spurned by one of the members.(The entire post got deleted). It was a very critical question and may have opened window into a lot of issues? Are we proud of our racial heritage only or do we take pride in the JAT(justice, action, truth)culture?
Some current practices and mindsets in our society are just irrational,although we may not have created them but by accepting status quo we are definitely perpetuating them.
It is true that castism has survived in the sikh religion but it was not intended and despite this the institutions in the sikh religion are the first best instruments to remove this discrimination (langar and sangat).
You are suggesting that jokes and harmony/respect for others can go together; i would like to respectfully differ on this untenable objective because you can crack a joke (as sportily as possible) but you can not control its effects (the effect on the person with whom you are sharing it; even if he is your fast friend,every time he listens he has a free mind to make an opinion about it).
I would like the members to display the same compassion in defending sikhs against these denigrating "profanities"/cheap political instruments (Buta singh was found missing in these jokes for a long time before he became governer)
which they displayed recently for someone they feel more equal than other equals (using the Orwellian characterization).
Let me go back to Rajdeep's reference to the icebreaking capacity of these jokes: of course it helps to "icebreak" but it breaks other things too.
When we talk of progressing, our "acceptability" depends on the impression we convey thru our words and deeds.Does it help to make fun of people who are second to none in the indian subcontinent?

I take pride in being a Jat but it is morally unsustainable for me to relate to anything which militates against a fellow Indian, a more equal hindu (Orwellian) and a human being.
Best
Anmol.


Kabir Circa 1450
Keson Kaha Bigadia, Je Moonde Sau Baar
Man Ko Kahe Na Moondiye, Jaamein Vishey Vikaar

Translation
What harm have the hair done, you shave them hundred times
Why not shave the mind, that's filled with poisonous thoughts

[brad]

Is it possible to crack a joke without the possibilities of hurting anyone?
If yes, pls provide an example?

Joke is genrally defined as:
Something said or done to evoke laughter or amusement
Something not to be taken seriously.

But in no definition i have seen so far, include or excludes expections on the part of the things related or involved in the joke. In other words it does not specify the scope. Should everyone laugh and be amused ? With respect to our sardar ji jokes, is it OK if every one other than sardards laugh or should all sardars also laugh to make a valid joke?

i think there are lot of valid concerns and questions abt jokes and i am sure someone shuld file a pil and clarify the issue before posting more jokes and preventing further cruelty, though unintentional, to others.

[dahiyasaab]

dear hooda ji:
meri typing speed is very slow and it is very tiring to engage in a conversation where people get you exactly the other way round.
maine logo se responsibility ki liye kaha hai....na maane to inki marji.
Bhai mujhe oracle aadi ka gyan nahi aur mein lagun oracle me gana gane(singing song) to behtar hoga ki main pehle oracle sikhon...bolo thik ya galat...isme personal hone ki kya baat hai.
AR.
(bhai muuche to hooda jaisi)

Agar kissi ko koi cheez nahi aati toh u mean to say usey try bhi nahi karna chahiye. I got ur point or this time also we fail to understand what u mean to say ! Mujhe sirf ek baat pata hai koi bhi cheez ish duniya mein aisi nahi jo na aaye, bus aadmi ko try karte rehna chahiye, agar aapko oracle nahi aati toh koi baat nahi sikna toh shuru karo ! aur agar aapko shruvat mein hi koi kehde ki tumhara logic bekkar hai ur GOOD FOR NOTHING, toh shayad aap thodey bahut demoralise jarour hongey !
U cannot send private messages but do spare time to reply !

[dahiyasaab]

Just want to say something !
We all played holi, have u played in typical haryanvi style
Where women use koladas, u can say lauth maar type of holi,
Holi is a colourful festival, Is there any need of tht in holi ?
But jatni used to play like this only, so what’s there intention .
Is they really want to hurt anyone or just wanna play !
Tht would be decided only by their action, if they are using
this as an oppurtinity to take revenge tht would be clear if they
started attacking particular person only, I think our humur section
resembles to tht. The style of playing holi like this would be bad
according to someone but people in villages still used to play like this.
So, I just wanna say tht we cann’t blame anybody for posting community
specific jokes if tht person’s intention is not harmful to the community !
I don’t think tht there are member on this site who regularly post a
community specific jokes, it is sometime incidental not intentional !
bhai logon angreji mein galti ho teh maaf kariyo, mera sirf app logon ka
ek hi baat ki taraf dhyan khichney ka iraada hai voh ki yahan intentionally
koi kissi majahab ki burai nahi karta, pls. Read patriotic sardar joke for any
clarifications ! & try to send private messages to a poster of joke abt ur views
if u don’t like the joke with reasoning !

[spdeshwal]

It was most heartening to note that both Anmol and Sandeep have prefered to come closer ideally rather than continue to hurt one another's feelings.

Sandeep may be less previlaged in getting his early education, that in fact helps one to be good in written and spoken English. Although Anmol's comments were not in good taste, but I would like to advise Sandeep to take his comments Positively and spend some more time in his reply to a post or in initiating a new thread.

I had been in Indian Navy as an ordinary sailor and lived with sikh friends for ten years. I don,t agree fully with the story narrated in the given article. It all depends on one's relationship with other members of the group or with member of his immediate family,from where that person derives imotional support. At least I don't remember any sikh friend feeling humbled and hurt to that level explained in this article. Even the relationship among them used to be of equals and I would never make out there cast or backround except some jat gotras.And the type of jokes we often cracked on them used to be nastier than we can imagine on this site. Therefore, I believe that we should not drag this topic any further and leave the matter on conscience of the person posting a joke.

My personal opinion is that we should not crack jokes on any community or individual who doesn't come from the same backround as majority of the member of this come from.

[junnu]

Hello people,

I think we are having a useless discussion here...coz all jokes are geared towards someone or somebody....we do have Jat jokes too...which sardars use to laugh...
The oldest on is " Jaat re Jaat, tere sir pe Khaat !! "
I think there is nothing wrong with jokes, if they are taken the right way...ie lightly !!
" Laughter is the best medicine " So laugh and live life.
And Dudi, well said.....there are hardly any jokes that wont hurt someones feelings..... by the way...hope you are High and Dry in alabama.....and not affected by Katarina?
Junnu

[brad]

thanks for ur concern, i am high and dry and safe, but not in Alabama right now.

[ratananmol]

i cant delete it.