UNSC Expansion: US not supporting India

[deepender]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/07/18/us.india.ap/index.html

The fact that US feels it is righteous to attack countries around the world in name of propogating democracy on one hand and is reluctant on the other to back world's largest democray for a UNSC seat is shocking. What double standards!

Maybe we should not even care about UNSC permanent seat and consider quiting the UN itself.....

[ozyjat]

Dear Deepender Bhai,

With all due respect i do not agree with your final statement.
I reckon quiting altogether is not a solution.Running away from problems is not a good thing to do coz they will follow you no matter where you go.I beleive we should keep our cool and use their reluctance to bag a few more goodies on our march to the UNSC permanent seat.

http://in.rediff.com/news/2005/jul/19reactors.htm


http://headlines.sify.com/news/fullstory.php?id=13898360&headline=US~recognises~India~as~nuke~weapon~power

Here are a few links you can visit and get an idea what i mean by goodies.
Regards
Deep Sangwan





http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/07/18/us.india.ap/index.html

The fact that US feels it is righteous to attack countries around the world in name of propogating democracy on one hand and is reluctant on the other to back world's largest democray for a UNSC seat is shocking. What double standards!

Maybe we should not even care about UNSC permanent seat and just quit the UN itself.....

[deepender]

Deep, Point well taken. Perhaps I was suggesting a too radical a measure there.
However, the real message that I wanted to communicate really is:
Without the reflecting the present day realities of world in the UN Security Council, the UN seems to have become a uneffective organization in itself...and if that's the case we need to reconsider its value proposition for us and our role in it....


Dear Deepender Bhai,

With all due respect i do not agree with your final statement.
I reckon quiting altogether is not a solution.Running away from problems is not a good thing to do coz they will follow you no matter where you go.I beleive we should keep our cool and use their reluctance to bag a few more goodies on our march to the UNSC permanent seat.

http://in.rediff.com/news/2005/jul/19reactors.htm


http://headlines.sify.com/news/fullstory.php?id=13898360&headline=US~recognises~India~as~nuke~weapon~power

Here are a few links you can visit and get an idea what i mean by goodies.
Regards
Deep Sangwan

[rkumar]

khud ko kar buland itna ki khuda pooche e bande teri marzee kiya hai.. Let us not bother about UNSC...Let us make India so strong that UN becomes meaningless without India on the scene. I think our PM did a great job by making US agree for Civil Nuclear Cooperation. This amounts to US accepting India as Nuclear Power with us signing even NPT. With sound economy, strong Army, no one can ignore India's claims..Let us keep working...

Congratulations PM..Well done. ..We are really proud of you.

RK^2

[ozyjat]

Bhiasaab,
Your suggestion was not radical it just had a bit of aggression in it. As someone once said to me it is the best combination to have a bit of aggression and patience hand in hand.
Its like flying a kite, thori dheel do phir khencho, phir dheel do aur thora khencho, jyaada jhatke denge to dhaaga toot jayega.Jaisa Rajendar uncle ji ne kaha humein khud ko itna buland karna hai ki wo khud hamare paas aayen.

Jahaan tak rahi UN ki baat I feel it still has affects of it's own.Yes US controls it but without UN it will be isolated as well.So we have to wait and watch but maintain our efforts towards as I said before 'Our march towards the UNSC permanent seat.'.................


Deep, Point well taken. Perhaps I was suggesting a too radical a measure there.
However, the real message that I wanted to communicate really is:
Without the reflecting the present day realities of world in the UN Security Council, the UN seems to have become a uneffective organization in itself...and if that's the case we need to reconsider its value proposition for us and our role in it....

[rkumar]

US has not rejected India's claims on UNSC. US is rejecting the way G4 is going about. Let us remember that US is on record of supporting Japan's claim on UNSC and opposing Germany. USA wants two or so members to be added to UNSC and India fulfils the criteria of their definition. USA has been very unhappy for a long time on the functioning of UN. USA wants to undertake the entire reform process and just not the UNSC expansion. I tend to agree with US approach. If one reads world media, except Pakistan, no other country is opposed to India's UNSC membership. I am sure India will make it to UNSC. Its just a matter of time. In today's circumstances, UNSC without India will be highly ineffective. UK, Russia and France are not good enough to control world affairs any more..USA alone also knows what all it can do and can not do.

RK^2

[raj_rathee]

Absolutely right Chacha ! Just look at China...Slowly and steadily building
their economic and military power, to the point where no one can
ignore it.

Seedhi se baat sae. Jab Sundu Inspector ki naukri laag jaaga, tae chorri
aale aape na bhaage-2 rishte le kar aayenge.

Engagement is the name of the diplomatic game.

Words of the wise: It is even more important to stay closer to your
enemies and detractors than to your friends.


khud ko kar buland itna ki khuda pooche e bande teri marzee kiya hai.. Let us not bother about UNSC...Let us make India so strong that UN becomes meaningless without India on the scene. I think our PM did a great job by making US agree for Civil Nuclear Cooperation. This amounts to US accepting India as Nuclear Power with us signing even NPT. With sound economy, strong Army, no one can ignore India's claims..Let us keep working...

Congratulations PM..Well done. ..We are really proud of you.

RK^2

[deepender]

Rajendra uncle ji, this brings about another important point maybe G4 formation is hurting our chances rather than helping us...? Pakistan, Argentina, Canada, Italy and Mexico are have currently formed a group called "United for Consensus" to oppose G4 -- seems like some of these contries maynot have a problem with India but are opposing because of some other country in G-4.
Like Argentina & Mexico must oppose Brazil;
Italy must oppose Germany;
I have no idea what is Canada's problem?
Also reportedly Chinese delegation is silently conducting some counter lobbying against India.

I agree that US is not proactively against India and that India has the best chance of US endorsement after their announced support for Japan.

By the way I am in total agreement with building our might regardless of this, though I believe at even at this point we already have built enough might for the world to acknowledge.....


US has not rejected India's claims on UNSC. US is rejecting the way G4 is going about. Let us remember that US is on record of supporting Japan's claim on UNSC and opposing Germany. USA wants two or so members to be added to UNSC and India fulfils the criteria of their definition. USA has been very unhappy for a long time on the functioning of UN. USA wants to undertake the entire reform process and just not the UNSC expansion. I tend to agree with US approach. If one reads world media, except Pakistan, no other country is opposed to India's UNSC membership. I am sure India will make it to UNSC. Its just a matter of time. In today's circumstances, UNSC without India will be highly ineffective. UK, Russia and France are not good enough to control world affairs any more..USA alone also knows what all it can do and can not do.

RK^2

[rkumar]

Seedhi se baat sae. Jab Sundu Inspector ki naukri laag jaaga, tae chorri
aale aape na bhaage-2 rishte le kar aayenge.

Engagement is the name of the diplomatic game.

......

Correct Bhateejje..This tells the whole story....

Lath me teil lagakr rakho, tau fer sab kahenge... jiska lath uskee bhais... UNSC seat Singapore ya Luxemberg ko nahi milne wali...India ko hi milegee..

RK^2

[rkumar]

Rajendra uncle ji, this brings about another important point maybe G4 formation is hurting our chances rather than helping us...? Pakistan, Argentina, Canada, Italy and Mexico are have currently formed a group called "United for Consensus" to oppose G4 -- maybe if some of these contries maynot have a problem with India but are opposing because of some other country in G-4.
Like Argentina & Mexico must oppose Brazil;
Italy must oppose Germany;
I have no idea what is Canada's problem?
Also reportedly Chinese delegation is silently conducting some counter lobbying against India.

I agree that US is not proactively against India and that India has the best chance of US endorsement after their announced support for Japan.

Deepender!. There will be always few countries who will be opposing each other and let us not worry about it. India being in G4 gives it many other advantages which are also important in long run. This has brought India closer to Japan Germany and Brazil who are very important countries. Japan is very close to USA and USA is openly supporting its candidature to UNSC. USA alone is not going to help India for ever. She needs other countries as well. Its because of G4 that countries like USA and China feel rattled. India has come out very strongly as Japan is doing most of the spending. India on its own would not have managed the type of publicity she is getting through G4. I think its good to be with G4. However, ultimately the UNSC membership will be on our own merit only. China will not dare to oppose us openly. China will oppose us through her stooge countries like Pakistan. I know how Chinese operate in international relations. The are tough talkers but not tough actors.

RK^2

[deepender]

Sure, seems like now we are on the world scene more than ever before, even the debate in itself is helping us.....

Jad laddoo phuta kare, to kime na kime to thyaya kare



Deepender!. There will be always few countries who will be opposing each other and let us not worry about it. India being in G$ gives it many other advantages which are also important in long run. This has brought India closer to Japan Germany and Brazil who are very important countries. Japan is very close to USA and USA is openly supporting its candidature to UNSC. USA alone is not going to help India for ever. She needs other countries as well. Its because of G$ that countries like USA and China feel rattled. India has come out very strongly as Japan is doing most of the spending. India on its own would not have managed the type of publicity she is getting through G4. I think its good to be with G4. However, ultimately the UNSC membership will be on our own merit only. China will not dare to oppose us openly. China will oppose us through her stooge countries like Pakistan. I know how Chinese operate in international relations. The are tough talkers but not tough actors.

[rkumar]

If one reads the fine print of joint Indo-US statement;

http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_1435093,001301320000.htm

both countries talk of global approach to their relationship and not just bilateral. This is the crux of relationship which makes India a global power of future. As far as I can forsee, it will be US resources and Indian manpower/ brain powerwhich will pull the punches in future....May be with time the balance would change when India will also have enough resources to play more and more global roles..name of the game is remain engaged...power will surely flow..

RK^2