National Defense: Our Strenghts and Weaknesses

[raj2rif]

Many members on this site have asked to discuss some meaningful subject. Being an ex defense personal, I thought this could be an interesting topic to discuss. What I intend to discuss is our strengths and weaknesses. In my mind the topic could be further sub divided into following sub heads;

1 Geography: how does our geography dictates our defense needs. What advantages do we have geographically? What are our weaknesses in various sectors and how can we overcome it without drawing international attention.

2. Military Strength: What is our strenght and weaknesses? Which are the areas we are OK and where we need to improve.

3. Social: Socially, what are our strenghts and weaknesses as far as defense of the nation is concerned. How can we turn our weaknesses into our strenghts?

4. Economics: How do we perceive our economy furthering our defense goals. How can we use the economic development to our advantage to strenghten the national security.

There could be many more sub heads, but let us start on these first. I would recommend members using one of these heads as "Heading" for their replies/posts or word "General" if they wish to address more than one issue in one single post.

I look forward for an interesting and meaningful discussion. May be we can get some ideas for enhancing our national security.

Thanks a lot in advance for your valuable contributions.

[ozyjat]

Dear Tavathia Ji,
This topic is very interesting indeed.I would like to post comments on one of the four sub-heads:

1.Geography:

a.Indian Ocean Geography:-
Total area: 73,600,000 km2; Arabian Sea, Bass Strait, Bay of Bengal, Java Sea, Persian Gulf, Red Sea, Strait of Malacca, Timor Sea, and other tributary water bodies

Comparative area: slightly less than eight times the size of the US; third-largest ocean (after the Pacific Ocean and Atlantic Ocean, but larger than the Arctic Ocean)

Coastline: 66,526 km

Climate: northeast monsoon (December to April), southwest monsoon (June to October); tropical cyclones occur during May/June and October/November in the north Indian Ocean and January/February in the south Indian Ocean

Natural resources: oil and gas fields, fish, shrimp, sand and gravel aggregates, placer deposits, polymetallic nodules.

Environment: endangered marine species include the dugong, seals, turtles, and whales; oil pollution in the Arabian Sea, Persian Gulf, and Red Sea.

The Indian Ocean provides a major transportation highway for the movement of petroleum products from the Middle East to Europe and North and South American countries. Fish from the ocean are of growing economic importance to many of the bordering countries as a source of both food and exports. Fishing fleets from the USSR, Japan, Korea, and Taiwan also exploit the Indian Ocean for mostly shrimp and tuna. Large reserves of hydrocarbons are being tapped in the offshore areas of Saudi Arabia, Iran, India, and Western Australia. An estimated 40% of the world's offshore oil production comes from the Indian Ocean. Beach sands rich in heavy minerals and offshore placer deposits are actively exploited by bordering countries, particularly India, South Africa, Indonesia, Sri Lanka, and Thailand.

Above mentioned facts tell us how strong our economy can be if we make proper use of all the available resources.Such a vast area almost eight times that of US but our revenues is not even one eigtht of America.We need to create a balance between our Naval presence and amount of business we generate in this area.The more stronger we are as a nation in defence terms the better and firm say we would have when we do business.Conduct more Naval exercises in the area, create a better infrastructure to do business.At present the infrastructure is not that efficient.We should also try to create a system where laddoo chahe koi bhi phore humein bhi thora hissa mile........



Many members on this site have asked to discuss some meaningful subject. Being an ex defense personal, I thought this could be an interesting topic to discuss. What I intend to discuss is our strengths and weaknesses. In my mind the topic could be further sub divided into following sub heads;

1 Geography: how does our geography dictates our defense needs. What advantages do we have geographically? What are our weaknesses in various sectors and how can we overcome it without drawing international attention.

2. Military Strength: What is our strenght and weaknesses? Which are the areas we are OK and where we need to improve.

3. Social: Socially, what are our strenghts and weaknesses as far as defense of the nation is concerned. How can we turn our weaknesses into our strenghts?

4. Economics: How do we perceive our economy furthering our defense goals. How can we use the economic development to our advantage to strenghten the national security.

There could be many more sub heads, but let us start on these first. I would recommend members using one of these heads as "Heading" for their replies/posts or word "General" if they wish to address more than one issue in one single post.

I look forward for an interesting and meaningful discussion. May be we can get some ideas for enhancing our national security.

Thanks a lot in advance for your valuable contributions.

[mukeshkumar007]

3. Social: Socially, what are our strenghts and weaknesses as far as defense of the nation is concerned. How can we turn our weaknesses into our strenghts?

.
Respected Uncelji, Thanks a lot for starting such a nice thread. Very intresting.

Our main social strength has been obeying the elder's orders with full respect. It makes us more discipline toward our values and culture and taught us to believe in supreme power. And as you know to believe in supreme power is the key factor of a strong society. Is not it ? But now a day's indiscipline is gradually growing especially among students and that is really a warning single to the national security and social integrity. The word Indiscipline has become unknown to students. We are running away from our roots and trying to find a shortcut for the success.
Decreasing harmony and feeling of brotherhood among member of society is also a thought full point. The tendency of living in separate family is the root cause for this problem. Due to this cause to live together even for real brothers has become very difficult. Some one has rightly said "A nation cannot become safe and strong unless strong & integrated society."

thanks & regards

[rkumar]

Defence of any nation is as good as its weakest link because this is where the enemy will hit. India has to identify these week links and then strengthen them. In my view the weakest links are;

1. Lack of National doctrine.
2. Poor social relations
3. Short sighted political class
4. Poor education and sensitisation of population to national issues

India will be fighting internal social wars and external proxy wars most of the time. Both these wars exploit our above-mentioned weaknesses. Why should our enemies attack us with conventional weapons when they know that better results can be achieved with low cost proxy wars. This is where India must focus all its energy from now on. Rest will all fall in place automatically.

RK^2

[ramksehrawat]

I entirely agree with Rajendraji. Though we started shouting from roof tops that India is an emerging economy, would be super power and blah.. blah, if you look around carefully we are still a very poor and weak country. I am not talking of the elite class using internet as they are just the "mukhota" of real India, but I am talking of those millions who still look skyward with prayers for rains so that they could grow something in their small landholdings in order to feed their children. There are still millions who leave their homes in the morning to find some work so that they could eat something at the end of the day. India is too meek a country to earn too many enemies beyond its borders, whatever adversity we have earned is because of our own mistakes in Kashmir or giving asylum to Dalai Lama, or being blind followers of USSR. The main enemies lies within the country. Vote bank politics is the biggest threat to India.

[raj2rif]

I have just posted the Geographical strength that we have over China. Kindly read that. I shall try copy and paste it here in next post.

[raj2rif]

Dear Members, I am sorry, the post I posted about India's geographical strenght on the thread Sino-Indian Relations did not go through and hence I am writing it here.

Geographically, India has a very distinct advantage over China in any military conflict.

War in Air: The performance of an aircraft depends on its All Up Weight. The altitude of the airfield affects this capability. Thus, Chineese air crafts can not lift more weight while taking off from airfields located in Tibet while air craft located in Chineese main land are too far from the border and thus will have limited radius of action. All that China can improvise is that air crafts taking of from main land airfields with full weight capacity and landing at airfields at Tibet for refueling before heading back to parent airfield. Aircrafts taking from the Tibet will have limited capability to have more ammunition, while the aircrafts taking from the main land china will need major part of their all up weight coming from the fuel and thus reducing the warhead carrying capacity. As against it, Indian aircrafts can take off with full weight close to the border from airfields located in plains like "Tejpur" and strike deep since they will have a larger radius of action.

Mechanised Forces: Indian mechanised forces can roll on to Tibet plains from Sikkim. The same is not possible for the Chinese mechanised forces.

Naval War: Probably we need to concentrate more on the war at Sea. We do have a very strategic advantage by having Andaman and Nicobar Islands with us. We do control one of the chock points for the entry to Indian Ocean. We do need to keep some good relations with the countries in Pacific ocean be it Phillipines, Indonesia, Cambodia, Thailand or Vietnam.

Diplomatic Relations: We do have good relations with Taiwan. That is always going to be bone of contention while dealing with the subject of Sino-Indian relations. As a democracy we need to support Taiwan, while that is not acceptable to China. Probably we may have to play down the Taiwan card a little till we need Chinese support to get into the UNSC.

For the time being this is good enough, I will try and touch down on other aspects some time later.

Once again thanks a lot for taking interest on the subject. Let us see some very healthy discussion.

[rkumar]

Tavathia Sahab,

1. Technically you may be 100% right as you are from services. However, China having a defence treaty with Pakistan, will face no such disadvantages as you have mentioned in your post. Chinese will use Pakistani air bases in all probability. Now regarding our advantage in Andman Nicobar, Chinese are also collaborating with Indonesia, Myanmar and many other Asean countries. However, all said and done, Chinese will exhaust all other avenues like proxy wars through Pakistan sponsored terrorism and social unrests etc before they venture into full scale conventional war. China-Pakistan-Bangladesh combine can keep us busy in North East, Kashmir and many other parts for years. Fighting a conventional war is much easier these days than proxy wars.

2. My other concern in any major war would be our lack of ammunition stock. I wonder if our productions would match those of China. You might be more informed on this aspect.

Regards
Rajendra

[raj2rif]

Tavathia Sahab,

1. Technically you may be 100% right as you are from services. However, China having a defence treaty with Pakistan, will face no such disadvantages as you have mentioned in your post. Chinese will use Pakistani air bases in all probability. Now regarding our advantage in Andman Nicobar, Chinese are also collaborating with Indonesia, Myanmar and many other Asean countries. However, all said and done, Chinese will exhaust all other avenues like proxy wars through Pakistan sponsored terrorism and social unrests etc before they venture into full scale conventional war. China-Pakistan-Bangladesh combine can keep us busy in North East, Kashmir and many other parts for years. Fighting a conventional war is much easier these days than proxy wars.

2. My other concern in any major war would be our lack of ammunition stock. I wonder if our productions would match those of China. You might be more informed on this aspect.

Regards
Rajendra

Dear Rajendra Ji,

War is not some thing that one decides in the evening and launches the attack next morning. The battle indicators start with the breaking down of the diplomatic channel. Regarding, Pakistan air bases. The use of air bases byone country while the other is on war with third country amounts to globalization of war and may lead to world war. It is because of this reason, most of the conflicts are contained to the local area. While Pakistan may give moral, diplomatic and covert support, allowing use of her air bases would invite a very strong reaction from us. Bangla Desh as of today does not have much military resources, nevertheless, a naval blockage would be pretty good to keep them busy. Andaman and Nicobar Island control the Strait of Mallaca and thus the shortes route from Indian Ocean to Pacific Ocean. If you read my post, I have said that we might have to keep our relations pretty good with the countries in this area. While China may be making all the efforts we also have to keep the diplomatic efforts going. Regarding ammunition stock, the USSR in 1971 gave us 130 mm guns but not the ammunition in spite of defense pact with them. We did get the ammunition from some of the friendly countries even though we did not have diplomatic relations with them. A potential war between India and China will have global implications and thus has to be bilateral. Any third country taking active part may provoke the world war scenario. India on its own I guess have enough resources to provide enough ammunition for her armed forces. The key issue is going to be the cost of such a war. In the ultimate analysis it will boil down to as to who can sustain herself for a longer duration. India on her part must plan a short and swift action.

[ravichaud]

This is a great discussion. I believe the military might of a nation is not truly alive until it is able to mobilize the lower/lower middle class into an effective technical force. When I say technical force, I do not mean making every destitute citizen a software programmer. Rather, Napoleon's true "Leve en masse" rests with building an education system that can effectively ensure the masses have some skill that will allow farmlands, foundries, factories, and steel mills to be filled when the time comes to mobilize.

We often mock the educational standards in the U.S...however, the ability to mobilize a nation rests within this education system. True...not every American can solve a quadratic equation on demand. However, when the time comes to mobilize, every foundry, factory, steel mill, or textile mill could be filled with citizens trained with basic educational skills to take on these types of jobs. That's where the military might of a nation comes from. Production potential born out of an effective workforce for mobilization.

[rkumar]

Defence of nation cannot be the job only of armed forces. Every citizen needs to be sensitised and made aware of his/her responsibilities towards nation. Media has a big role to play in involving common man. This cannot be one time event; it has to be on a continuous basis. Some time back I wrote to our Army Chief when he just took over the office. My major suggestions to him were;

1. Spare some of junk tanks and planes as trophy, which can be mounted on major road crossings in small rural towns, as ultimately it’s the rural youth who joins army at relatively lower ranks.

2. Republic day parade should not be limited only to big Cities and national capital. It should go to smaller towns every few years.

3. Army should hold exhibitions of their equipments in smaller towns and invite youth to interact with top army brass.

There are many more such steps, which will go a long way in motivating our rural youth for national defence.

Rajendra

[brad]

Strength: We have many who are ready to die and fortunately some of them choose the military
Weakness: our brain is dead, but bahas is great !

[rkumar]

Since we are talking of national defence, here is the latest on Indian Navy which has been reported in Paksitan Daily. Surprisingly no major Indian newspapers have taken up this very serious matter.

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_3-8-2005_pg4_23

National defence comparises everything we do on day to day basis. Our every step makes India either stong or weak.

Rajendra

[gaganjat]

Good to see such an important topic Col Virendra Tavathia.

First of all, I would make it clear when we are discussing about war and weapons, humananity issues shouldnt interfere. More the destruction, better the weapon.

I believe in todays scenario its more important to have the most destructive weapons which decide the power of a country (lets keep related issues like economic condition, politics etc aside).

India should concentrate more on big weapons of mass destruction like Nuclear bombs, Hydrogen bombs etc. Good long range missiles and aircrafts to carry them. I think India doesnt have many long range missiles which can cover any country of the world.

As our big portion of our land is surrounded from water ,strong navy is extremely important.

Another important thing is keeping any eye on others move through satellites
and other systems. And how to destroy missile attacks in air after tracking them.

It is about watching moves of others (through satellites or whatever), destroying their attacks (antimissile system and others) attacking them without defects (accurate attack, not traced and resisted by any of enemys systems) and preventing ourselves from attacks (underground bunkers,towns etc.)

[raj2rif]

Since we are talking of national defence, here is the latest on Indian Navy which has been reported in Paksitan Daily. Surprisingly no major Indian newspapers have taken up this very serious matter.

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_3-8-2005_pg4_23

National defence comparises everything we do on day to day basis. Our every step makes India either stong or weak.

Rajendra

Dear Rajendra Ji,

The text of Pakistani paper says, that it has been reported by Times of India and Dainik Bhaskar. I guess Times of India is a major newspaper. Why others have not reported we are not sure.

But the problem is of our intelligence. It is our very weak link and so is lust for money in a human being born and brought up in a corrupted society. These are the challenging issues and we would try and discuss on the other thread.

[mukeshkumar007]

Dear Rajendra Ji,

The text of Pakistani paper says, that it has been reported by Times of India and Dainik Bhaskar. I guess Times of India is a major newspaper. Why others have not reported we are not sure.

.

Respected uncelji, I have read in detail this news in Dainik Bhaskar. In that news It was written that a war plan of Navy had stolen and our intelligency came to know about it when they are doing sendmari in pakistani database then they found that our navy's war plan already their.
But after one day it also has been acknowledged that no war plan had been stolen.
what was the truth who know ?

[rkumar]

I was reading some times back the news about some British declassified documents whereby they mentioned that the details of most of the decisions from cabinet meetings of Mrs Gandhi were leaked within minutes of the meetings were over. There was some mole in her cabinet who was passing on all the sensitive information as per these declassified documents. If this is the state of affairs then what can one expect? There are too many weak links even to keep a count.

RK^2

[devdahiya]

Dear Rajendra Ji,

War is not some thing that one decides in the evening and launches the attack next morning. The battle indicators start with the breaking down of the diplomatic channel. Regarding, Pakistan air bases. The use of air bases byone country while the other is on war with third country amounts to globalization of war and may lead to world war. It is because of this reason, most of the conflicts are contained to the local area. While Pakistan may give moral, diplomatic and covert support, allowing use of her air bases would invite a very strong reaction from us. Bangla Desh as of today does not have much military resources, nevertheless, a naval blockage would be pretty good to keep them busy. Andaman and Nicobar Island control the Strait of Mallaca and thus the shortes route from Indian Ocean to Pacific Ocean. If you read my post, I have said that we might have to keep our relations pretty good with the countries in this area. While China may be making all the efforts we also have to keep the diplomatic efforts going. Regarding ammunition stock, the USSR in 1971 gave us 130 mm guns but not the ammunition in spite of defense pact with them. We did get the ammunition from some of the friendly countries even though we did not have diplomatic relations with them. A potential war between India and China will have global implications and thus has to be bilateral. Any third country taking active part may provoke the world war scenario. India on its own I guess have enough resources to provide enough ammunition for her armed forces. The key issue is going to be the cost of such a war. In the ultimate analysis it will boil down to as to who can sustain herself for a longer duration. India on her part must plan a short and swift action.


VIRENDRA SIR,



YOU ARE BANG ON TARGET. WHY BUT.........SORRY SIR!

[raj2rif]

VIRENDRA SIR,



YOU ARE BANG ON TARGET. WHY BUT.........SORRY SIR!

Dear Dahiya Ji,

I did not understand the blanks in your message. Could you please clarify.

Thanks