Religion, stops a thinking mind???

[pup030]

Dear friends,

I was born in a Hindu family and my family members are devout Hindus who follow all the rituals and practices associated with the same. I too was made a part of such practices at home during my childhood but as the grey matter started to tick which naturally led to my questioning the Religions and all the practices associated with them. I could not understand the logic of a absentee landlord the world calls "God". My family was and still remains in a state of shock on being informed by me that I am an Atheist.

I have come to understand and believe that religion stops a thinking mind. It numbs your grey matter into being part of the herd and have a mindset which is quite akin to that of sheep. We are supposed to be better then Sheep are we not??

Ancient humans could not understand the real reason for the passing seasons. They associated what they observed with all sorts of mystical goings on. Later, some clever chap came along and exploited the thoughts and understanding of those ancient social groups by saying that it was a omnipresent universal power which made the seasons change and thus the very basic phenomenon got shrouded in mystery and till date we ascribe to the theological thought that God, the absentee landlord makes things happen for us. This clever chap also declared that the omnipresent universal power had ordained him to rule and thus he came to rule the tribes and the social groups of those times. Little has changed till date. Come on guys, dont you realise the trickery involved. Make use of your grey matter.

Mark my words. the day humans have a better idea then God, God would be thrown into the dustbin. Offended, but why?? Give it a thought. Well, somebody has said that from the saintly and devout to the extremist is but one step. I do not want you to fall squarely into that category nor would you.

One of the first questions I am asked by true believers and doubters alike is, “If you don’t believe in God, there’s nothing to prevent you from committing crimes, is there? Without the fear of hell-fire and eternal damnation, you can do anything you like, can’t you?

The answer to the questions posed above is, of course, "Absolutely not!" I often tell that my behaviour is subject to the same rules of sociology, psychology, and neurophysiology that govern the behaviour of all members of our species believers included. Moreover, despite protestations to the contrary, we may assert as a general rule that when believers practice ethical behaviour, it isn't really due to their fear of hell-fire and damnation, nor is it due to their hopes of heaven. Ethical behaviour - regardless of who the practitioner may be - results always from the same causes and is regulated by the same forces, and has nothing to do with the presence or absence of religious belief.

Most religions say that they make people better humans and if I am able to be a better human being without religious crutches then why should I carry that extra religious baggage?

We need a Detoxification from Religion.....think about it.

Dhiren Singh
Advocate

[rkumar]

Dhiren,

One can argue effectively either way. Etiology does not prove that those who do not beieve in God are any better thinkers. Communists tried their best to downly play both religion and God. There is no evidence thet this improved their thinking capacity substantially. One can at best confine it to personal beliefs and can not genralise. My personal belief is that God has been one of the most fascinating human created concepts. This creation has been both used and missued extensively.

RK^2

[spdeshwal]

Bhai Dhirender,

Namaska!

Dhirender Baramchari ki dalan rang na badlakar!

Dusre thread me te hanuman ke gungan karan lag ra tha. Ek baat pe jama reh

AK Vakalat ka assar hogya.


Cheers!

[anujkumar]

Bhai Dhirender,

Namaska!

Dhirender Baramchari ki dalan rang na badlakar!

Dusre thread me te hanuman ke gungan karan lag ra tha. Ek baat pe jama reh

AK Vakalat ka assar hogya.


Cheers!

:D :eek: :(

Very funny.. People try to be more consistant

[raj_rathee]

Diren...good to hear all this....
Laage sae tu mahari aur ka maanus sae. Welcome to the enlightened
zone !

But dost everything has a purpose. Religion and all things Godly can be used as a tool to be manipulate and control others. Just look at how we control our women !
We make them sing "Pati Parmeshwar" tunes while we engage in more
earthly endeavors (wink, wink).

Bhai har cheez ki utility sai....We just need to remember not to be hoodwinked
by our own medicine. ;)

[pup030]

Bhai Dhirender,

Namaska!

Dhirender Baramchari ki dalan rang na badlakar!

Dusre thread me te hanuman ke gungan karan lag ra tha. Ek baat pe jama reh

AK Vakalat ka assar hogya.


Cheers!

Bhai,

Below is the text from my thread on Hanuman. I guess you take things literally and do use the finer grey matter to read between the lines.

I have thoroughly read the mythological scriptures and having known the deeds of Lord Hanuman and what he stood for, his unquestioning loyality to Lord Ram and family made me wonder if he was the true Jat.

I have firmly started believing so and hold him as the role model Jat.

Is my belief true or unfounded.

My friend, nowhere in the above text on Hanuman have I said that I believe in a religious practice and Hanuman has been referred to as being the symbolic jat. Its about his qualities as depicted in mythology and nothing more just that. I have stated that I have firmly started believing Hanuman to be a role model Jat the point of reference being his depicted qualites and I do agree with what raj-rathee wrote about everything having its utlity and the utility of Hanuman for me is to learn from his stories to be strong, i mean brains and brawn both, be loyal but at the same time question(thats a point of divergence) for I do not want to be part of the herd.

I guess you must have got my point.

Dhiren Singh
Advocate

[spdeshwal]

My Dear Dhirender Bhai

Forgive me for not getting you right!.You may be right in saying that I may be one who takes things literally.For that matter, I am not a literary person who can visualise beyond a written text.

To me, when someone pronounce 'Lord Ram or Lord Hanuman' is reverential and degree of revernce is that shown to a religious Deity or God and not a title bestowed on by the Queen Of England.

As a Arya Smaji I don't beliew in Ram or Hanuman as GOD but believe that they were historical stalwarts with extraordinary human qualities. And the narrations to descibe their role as historical charactors may have gone through substantial distortions of the events by the grace of unscruplous bramins.

Raj Rathee Bhai, Pati Parmeshwar with addition of Patni parmeshwar( Equals) is better than Pati Partners or Patni Parteners.I mean Puran Samarpan( total commitment).Without total commitment relationships r not sustainable.


TO ME LIFE WITHOUT RELIGION is like FLOWERS WITHOUT FRAGRANCE

Cheers!

[dahiyarules]

Hey Dhirendra !

well I dont call myself an Athiest. Atheism is an abusive term imposed on peoplelike me and you, who are unacceptable to the "religiously enlightened." So I call myself logical. Logic says that if someone shows u five fingers you say, and if its four, you say four. Similarly If someone hides their fingers behind their back and asks: How many fingers, tell me now. You have noway to answer correctly, unless you have some kind of psychic powers. So you say I dont know. Logically so. Similarly, when I asked myself the question, growing up in an environment, similar to yours, Is god there, and all I got in response was a stony silence. There are a lot of grey areas with the whole "god theory."

Kalkhande sir said: it can be argued equally well either way. I dont think so. I want to see god to believe that it exists. The whole notion of god is so stupid. tell me something. You goto your bank to deposit some money. the banks closed. do you leave the money at the door. logically, you wont. You want to give it to a casier, who exists physically. and you have some kind of assurance as to what happened to your money. but on the other hand people goto temples, and throw tonnes of money on stone idols. whats in their mind when they do that? In my thinking, most people think that its going to god. There might b a few who know that the money is going no where, but to the priests.

And even if theres this supercomputer out there in the universe, that determines our destiny, then I dont believe in that too. We write our own destiny. Our actions dictate our future. Jaisa karega waisa bharega.

The comunists had thier own reasons for abolishing religion. They understood religion to be a direct threat to their establishment. It was just another form of organization of people, that they feared might organize against he communist establishment someday.

My religion is to be a nice-hearted person. I try not to do things that might hurt someone. I help people in need, within my scope. I try to be honest. Lying just postpnes the moment of agony that the truth may put someone under. These are some of the traits that people who I know personally, identify me with. At the end of the day, I just try to be a civilized human being. And for that I dont need to be religious or have a god.

Whats the point trying not to offend somone who doesnt even exist, when you are out there and killing people, and lying continuously, every day of your life. Fear the neighbor next door, rather than fearing the cloud in the sky.

[kuldeepsingh]

Thaks for the thread

Mere Hissab sey bhagwan nahi sai ar sai tai do bhagwan sain ek amiran ka ar doosra gareeban ka.

Kuldeep Singh

[kamna_singh]

hello dhiren,

well,first of all let me congratulate u,because u did't blindly follow what ur family did and u definitely used ur brain and had the guts to question the existence of god.albeit the debate reagarding the existence of god is eternal and theist and atheist will continue to exist come what may.....but yes we all have a right to stick to our own beliefs,but the world will become a better place for sure if there is one religion and that should be the religion of humanity.the world is a beautiful place to live in,but in the name of religion people are killing each other,politicians come to power by exploting the religious sentiments of people and the veil of religion on the mind of people makes them blind and the moment anyone tries to challenge the existence of god,they will turn rebellious.it appears that the fear first brought gods in the world and it is not that only illiterate people who believe in god but i have seen people who are erudite,rich and everything is working for them also believe in god.i am not against god,but i feel pity for people who are befooled by the so called god men,and in turn they exploit them to the hilt.

yes its very true that we can do whatever we want and thats what we do,we dont care for anyone,do we?if the fear of god was instilled so deep in us then the kind of crimes which take place,would have never taken place ......and what startles me more is that why god remains as a silent spectator?time for god to come out of deep slumber and hibernation if god is out there in reality......... :confused: the incarnations of the god are created by some capenter,scluptor,potter or someone else i.e. THEY ARE CREATED BY HUMAN BEINGS AND NOW THE QUESTION ARISES HOW A HUMAN BEING CAN CREATE SUCH A GOD WHICH DOESNT BLESS THE CREATOR RATHER IT IS CAPABLE OF FULFILLING THE WISHES OF THE DEVOTEES.....

.............. if there is one place where god can be found thats right inside us and nowhere else..,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,if anyone finds mr god or mrs godess do let me know..

kamna singh
advocate

[dahiyarules]

blah blah blah !

I think there must be as many religions as people want to have. Abolition of religion is not the answer. Its the awakening that matters. I really dont ahve aproblem with relgious people. They are not that bad at heart, anyday. But I would feel better if people became more logical instead.

[spdeshwal]

May I request our senior members like Shri Ram Singh Aryaji, Dr Birbalji, CH Dharampal Singh Dudiji, Shri Subhachand Sheoranji, Behan Sujataji, Behan Sarla Chodhry,Sh Laxman Burdakji,Uday Dahiyaji, Col. Jagmohan Malik, Rajender kumar kalkhundeji( that shot reply is not acceptable), Mrs. kanta and Ishwar Lambaji and all others to participate and share your views on this subject

SAIDHANYAVAD !

Sateypal Deshwal

[spdeshwal]

Q What proof is there that God Exists?

A: Presence of God is known through perception and other evidences around us in the form of the nature. We get the knowledge of the outside world through perception using our five senses, namely the sense of touch, hearing, sight, taste and smell. Our sense organs send the appropriate signals to our mind which processes these signals and forms a perception of object that we are investigating. The perception of the object we get using our senses and the mind is based on the attributes (qualties) of the object and not the object itself. When we see a stone we immidiately know that it is a stone because we know its attributes ( qualities). On the other hand we can't see air but it can be perceived through skin. So how we get a perception of an object, depends on the attributes of the object that is being studied. Just as the five senses perceive the attributes of touch, smell, sight, taste and sound with the help of the mind and perceive everything around it, similarly by perceiving the design of nature, intelligence and perfection of creation we perceive God. When we decide to do something bad like stealing or something good like helping the needy and when the soul is fully focused on this action, at the very moment, from within us comes the emotions of fear, hesitation or shame if the action is bad, and fearlessness, detemination and joy if the action is good. These emotions come not from the soul but from the God.
When the soul sets to contemplate God with purity of feelings(through Astang yoga), it perceives both, itself and the God

Q Is God every where or does He reside at one place?

A: He is every where. Had He been at one place only, he could not have been all-pervding, all knowing, all-ordaining, all sustaining and all desolving. No agent can work at a place where He does not exist.

Q Is God both, just and merciful or not?

A: Yes He is both.

Q These two attributes are inconsistent. Where there is justice, there is no mercy; and where there is mercy , there is no justice. justice means the giving of exactly so much pleasure or pain as is one's due on account of one's good or bad actions; neither a jot more , nor a jot less. But mercy means to let the guilty go unpnished.

A: Justice and mercy only differ in name. They both serve the purpose. Punishment is given with the purpose of dissuading man from sin and preventing his pain. Justice means that a criminal should be punished to extent of his crime. If he is not punished, mercy is out of question. To let of one robber means to give pain to thousands of righteous people. How it will be called mercy when letting off one to prevent him from further evil deeds is mercy to the robber. Even if the robber has to be put to death it will still be a mercy to the thousands of righteous people.

The greatest mercy of God is this, that God has created all sort of objects in this world so that the souls may derive benifit from them. What else can be a greater mercy? Now look at justice. It is evidenced by the difference in the magnitude of pleasure and pain, due to good and bad actions. The only differece between mercy and justice is off angles off vision. When one wishes that everyone be happy and be exmpted from from pain, it is mercy. But giving punishment where it is due , by external actions is justice. The purpose of both these is the same, namely prevention of sin and removal of pain.

Adapted from
"Sathyarth Prakash- The light of Truth"
By Maharishi Dayanand Saraswati

[arunshamli]

If someone does not have faith on God, it does not make any difference to the God. It is a personal matter to think why we have been born and blessed by the God with human body.
But if you do not believe in something, it does not mean that it does not exist. You may close your eyes and say that the sun does not exist. But is that true? So is the case with the God. One should know the real qualities of the God. It is the responsibility of each and every person to find the truth. In our scriptures the path to find the God is mentioned. one should practice asthang yoga( yam , niyam , asan , pranayam , pratyahar, dharna, dhyan , samadhi) and when you reach at the stage of a-sam-prag-yat samadhi, you realize the God.

There are three kinds of proofs.

1. Pratyaksh praman: It is the result of direct contact of five senses with their objects. But we can prove only those things which we know. We can not prove those things which we do not know.

2. Anuman praman: we infer some event from some other true event. By seeing a kid we assume he must have parents, even if we have not seen them we still believe it to be true. jab subaha ham sokar uth-te hain aur har jagar pani dikhayi deta hai toh ham sochte hain ke rat me barish hui hogi, lekin hamne barish hote hue nahi dekhi fir bhee ham ye maante hain. theek isi prakar jab ham Prithvi , surya, chandrama, aadmi aadi ko dekhte hai toh ham sochte hai ki inko jaroor kisi ne banaya hoga and banae wala insan toh nahi ho sakta hai. banane wala bhagwah hai, aisa anuman hota hai.

3. Agam praman: kisi aise aadmi se sunna jisne koi cheej pahale experience ki hui ho. jaise koi aadmi pahale USA gaya hua ho toh ham usse puchte hai ke USA kaisa hai. and we believe in what he says. is category me vidwan log and spritiul books aate hain. and they all believe in the existance of god.

so out of those three categories the existance of god is proven by two of them. and the first one(pratyakash) is only proved by doing asthang yoga.

If I have not tried any thing to find about the God, how can I say that it does not exists?

The Sanskrit word Dharam is different from the English word religion. There is no word for Dharam in English language. Religion is created by the man and Dharam is by God.

I myself do not believe in the religion. but I believe in Dharam and the existance of God.

BTW, God does not stop and can not stop you from doing anything. you can do what ever is in your capacity. but you should be ready to face the consequences of your acts. The results are not in your hand.

some people in forum have said that they do this and they do not do this.

My question to them: how do you decide what is wrong and what is right? where did you learn that you should be a nice hearted person? Where did you learn that you should not hurt others? where did you learn that you should be honest? Where did you learn that you should be a civilized person? and how do you know you are civilized?

probably the answer will be that they learned it from those who have faith in God.