Senseless Community Action & Shameless Inaction

[pup030]

TO WHOMSOEVER IT MAY CONCERN

I have lived for pretty long enough to be in a position to comment and form an opinion about absurdities and medieval attitudes which persist in the community at large. To begin with we proudly say that calling a spade a spade is what a Jat is all about but the reality is somewhat different.

Look at whats been happening over the years within the community at different location but all through runs a common thread which I would term as senseless action at some places and at others shameless silence and inaction. Being firmly rooted to beliefs does no good to anyone. Now coming to the specific occurrences which would enable me to establish and demonstrate what I am trying to communicate.

# Location: Village-Mitraon, Delhi (Example of shameless community silence).... It all started with a dispute between two families over a petty piece of land(dearer then dear life), horns locked by the male members from both the side, bloodshed ensued, local criminal gets into the fray and support of one family, further bloodshed, softest targets taken out from either side, total casualities...hold your breath..almost 70. Youth from the village and neighbouring areas criminalized and indoctrinated into a life of crime. Result.. the emergence of the deadliest criminal gangs in Delhi and NCR.
The Shameless community silence : Vis a vis the the incidents in Village Mitraon, the community remained a silent spectator and shamelessly, whatever happened to those rustic, medieval Mahapanchayats which often speak on behalf of the community and assign themselves al the wisdom of settling matters in community terms. But funnily, elsewhere the same mahapanchayats come to the fore vociferously when ever a boy and a girl from the same village take the step of loving and getting married. Well, those poor little things have to bear the brunt and the anger of these Panchayats being soft targets. Why did no such initiative take place with regard to Mitraon???? Hit yourself on the head and find an answer.

# Location: Gohana (Example of Senseless community action)....Its really a mad world we live in and it all started with the murder of a local Jat trader and financier, given a inter community colour by vested interests and over enthuistic chaps from the community, the reason being that the murderers were SC(scheduled caste). A mob is marshalled which goes on to torch the home and hearth of folks from the same SC community. Could there be something more senseless. This was a purely mediveal conduct.

Example of Senseless community action : As the events in Gohana demonstrate that we still remain a medieval community with those very attitudes, or why else would the mob in Gohana comprising jats have been incited by the murder of another Jat which was purely an act of crime perpetrated by some local boys belonging to another community. The law would have taken its course and had there been something lacking in the police investigation and action then certainly the community could have pursued the matter as per the procedure laid by the law but the patience was deliberately made to run thin. There was more to it then meets the eye. Well, the commonality or say the common thread which runs with regard to Gohana and the Mahapanchayats organised to tackle same village love marriages is the itch and the over eagerness to send a message and establishing a high hand by taking on the softest possible targets.

Where will this lead us....certainly to doom. Think of what we have come to symbolise as a community.

I am proud to be born a Jat but would never want myself to be identified by conduct with the likes of Narender Modi's and people of his ilk. Would you?????

I do not see any logic or fair reasoning vis a vis the senseless action and shameless silence on the part of the community, do you???

Dhiren Singh
Advocate

[devdahiya]

TO WHOMSOEVER IT MAY CONCERN

I have lived for pretty long enough to be in a position to comment and form an opinion about absurdities and medieval attitudes which persist in the community at large. To begin with we proudly say that calling a spade a spade is what a Jat is all about but the reality is somewhat different.

Look at whats been happening over the years within the community at different location but all through runs a common thread which I would term as senseless action at some places and at others shameless silence and inaction. Being firmly rooted to beliefs does no good to anyone. Now coming to the specific occurrences which would enable me to establish what I have been trying to communicate.

# Location: Village-Mitraon, Delhi (Example of shameless community silence).... It all started with a dispute between two families over a petty piece of land(dearer then dear life), horns locked by the male members from both the side, bloodshed ensued, local criminal gets into the fray and support of one family, further bloodshed, softest targets taken out from either side, total casualities...hold your breath..almost 70. Youth from the village and neighbouring areas criminalized and indoctrinated into a life of crime. Result.. the emergence of the deadliest criminal gangs in Delhi and NCR.
The Shameless community silence : Vis a vis the the incidents in Village Mitraon, the community remained a silent spectator and shamelessly, whatever happened to those rustic, medieval Mahapanchayats which often speak on behalf of the community and assign themselves al the wisdom of settling matters in community terms. But funnily, elsewhere the same mahapanchayats come to the fore vociferously when ever a boy and a girl from the same village take the step of loving and getting married. Well, those poor little things have to bear the brunt and the anger of these Panchayats being soft targets. Why did no such initiative take place with regard to Mitraon???? Hit yourself on the head and find an answer.

# Location: Gohana (Example of Senseless community action)....Its really a mad world we live in and it all started with the murder of a local Jat trader and financier, given a inter community colour by vested interests and over enthuistic chaps from the community, the reason being that the murderers were SC(scheduled caste). A mob is marshalled which goes on to torch the home and hearth of folks from the same SC community. Could there be something more senseless. This was a purely mediveal conduct.

Example of Senseless community action : As the events in Gohana demonstrate that we still remain a medieval community with those very attitudes, or why else would the mob in Gohana comprising jats have been incited by the murder of another Jat which was purely an act of crime perpetrated by some local boys belonging to another community. The law would have taken its course and had there been something lacking in the police investigation and action then certainly the community could have pursued the matter as per the procedure laid by the law but the patience was deliberately made to run thin. There was more to it then meets the eye. Well, the commonality or say the common thread which runs with regard to Gohana and the Mahapanchayats organised to tackle same village love marriages is the itch and the over eagerness to send a message and establishing a high hand by taking on the softest possible targets.

Where will this lead us....certainly to doom. Think of what we have come to symbolise as a community.

I am proud to be born a Jat but would never want myself to be identified by conduct with the likes of Narender Modi's and people of his ilk. Would you?????

I do not see any logic or fair reasoning vis a vis the senseless action and shameless silence on the part of the community, do you???

Dhiren Singh
Advocate




Dhiren bhai ji,

Please hold on, else a bigger sin is likely to be committed by all of us; incase we start discussing the situation on ground vis-a -vis what the JATS are suppose to be?It will be better and appropriate, incase we discuss the whole issue under three main headings like:

a] Genesis of the problem[ Which you brought out]
b] Present Situation.
c] Solution/suggestion to bring the community on track.

Merely criticizing the community will not help a bit. Hope you ponder over the suggestion?


Regards.

[raj2rif]

Taking law in your hand is not a civilized way of living. We have a law which we want others to follow. At the same time, we also have people who are associated with the protection of law, doing some thing other than what they are expected to do, be it a police inspector, attorney and some times even a judge. It is few or many of these people who have been responsible for the public loosing faith in the system. While what has happened in these incidents must be condenmed to the heart's content, and culprits brought to books ASAP, we must also go into the details of the psychology leading to such incidents. Is it lack of education at home, inactivitiy or corruption among the law enforcing agencies or any thing else. Whatever it may be, we as a citizen need to rise to the occassion and contribute our bit to help our government to make our society a safer place to live honorably.

[rkumar]

I agree 100% with your observations Dhiren. How do we address the issue and set the things right? We need to debate the issue logically and suggest the methods of addressing the problem of this mob mentality.

Rajendra

[dahiyars]

Dear Dhiren,

I fully agree with you. These Panchayats are imposing their decisions on weaker sections- dalits, women and poor persons even from jat community.The mediveal behaviour cannot be condonned. The members of the so called panchayat should be put behind the bars.In the murder case let the law take its own course. If we extend the panchayat decision then only last thursday a student has been murdered in the open, the victims village has got the fatwa with it to burn the village of the murderer. I think if this is allowed to happen the total Haryana villages will be burnt within few years.

Dr.R.S.Dahiya

[sumitsehrawat]

TO WHOMSOEVER IT MAY CONCERN

I have lived for pretty long enough to be in a position to comment and form an opinion about absurdities and medieval attitudes which persist in the community at large. To begin with we proudly say that calling a spade a spade is what a Jat is all about but the reality is somewhat different.

Look at whats been happening over the years within the community at different location but all through runs a common thread which I would term as senseless action at some places and at others shameless silence and inaction. Being firmly rooted to beliefs does no good to anyone. Now coming to the specific occurrences which would enable me to establish and demonstrate what I am trying to communicate.

# Location: Village-Mitraon, Delhi (Example of shameless community silence).... It all started with a dispute between two families over a petty piece of land(dearer then dear life), horns locked by the male members from both the side, bloodshed ensued, local criminal gets into the fray and support of one family, further bloodshed, softest targets taken out from either side, total casualities...hold your breath..almost 70. Youth from the village and neighbouring areas criminalized and indoctrinated into a life of crime. Result.. the emergence of the deadliest criminal gangs in Delhi and NCR.
The Shameless community silence : Vis a vis the the incidents in Village Mitraon, the community remained a silent spectator and shamelessly, whatever happened to those rustic, medieval Mahapanchayats which often speak on behalf of the community and assign themselves al the wisdom of settling matters in community terms. But funnily, elsewhere the same mahapanchayats come to the fore vociferously when ever a boy and a girl from the same village take the step of loving and getting married. Well, those poor little things have to bear the brunt and the anger of these Panchayats being soft targets. Why did no such initiative take place with regard to Mitraon???? Hit yourself on the head and find an answer.

# Location: Gohana (Example of Senseless community action)....Its really a mad world we live in and it all started with the murder of a local Jat trader and financier, given a inter community colour by vested interests and over enthuistic chaps from the community, the reason being that the murderers were SC(scheduled caste). A mob is marshalled which goes on to torch the home and hearth of folks from the same SC community. Could there be something more senseless. This was a purely mediveal conduct.

Example of Senseless community action : As the events in Gohana demonstrate that we still remain a medieval community with those very attitudes, or why else would the mob in Gohana comprising jats have been incited by the murder of another Jat which was purely an act of crime perpetrated by some local boys belonging to another community. The law would have taken its course and had there been something lacking in the police investigation and action then certainly the community could have pursued the matter as per the procedure laid by the law but the patience was deliberately made to run thin. There was more to it then meets the eye. Well, the commonality or say the common thread which runs with regard to Gohana and the Mahapanchayats organised to tackle same village love marriages is the itch and the over eagerness to send a message and establishing a high hand by taking on the softest possible targets.

Where will this lead us....certainly to doom. Think of what we have come to symbolise as a community.

I am proud to be born a Jat but would never want myself to be identified by conduct with the likes of Narender Modi's and people of his ilk. Would you?????

I do not see any logic or fair reasoning vis a vis the senseless action and shameless silence on the part of the community, do you???

Dhiren Singh
Advocate



... is exactly what I wanted to say.

Thanks for putting it Dhiren.

regards,
$umit

[dahiyarules]

Once again, as I always say Socialism is to blame. Government is not a Superman to do everything from ripping apart the oceans to putting hell on fire. we expect too much form the government. Based on those expectations, the government took control of the major resources in our society. For decades our kids in villages have been relying on underprovided government schools. They lack motivation. A few who are highly driven work hard to get out of the vicious circle and setlle in urban centers. Others drop out in midst of their education. The end result is a lack of opportunities, as government doesnt have the entreprenurial drive to create profitable enterprises, and our elected officers play favoritism and trade oppotunities for hush monies. Its a very sad scenario.

Most of us maylook at capitalists as the evil baniyas. But they create oppotunities. Theres no freeriding and its a fair game.

[rkumar]

Once again, as I always say Socialism is to blame. Government is not a Superman to do everything from ripping apart the oceans to putting hell on fire. we expect too much form the government. Based on those expectations, the government took control of the major resources in our society. For decades our kids in villages have been relying on underprovided government schools. They lack motivation. A few who are highly driven work hard to get out of the vicious circle and setlle in urban centers. Others drop out in midst of their education. The end result is a lack of opportunities, as government doesnt have the entreprenurial drive to create profitable enterprises, and our elected officers play favoritism and trade oppotunities for hush monies. Its a very sad scenario.

Most of us maylook at capitalists as the evil baniyas. But they create oppotunities. Theres no freeriding and its a fair game.

Absolutely correct.

RK^2

[dahiyarules]

Thank you Kalkhande sir. :-D

[dreamz0802]

DEV ji you are on right track and I know what exactly you are asking and

I would like to ask DHIREN bhai that how many times have you drive passed on your way, ignoring any policeman or any common people fighting or bashing a weak and poor person (infact nor do I most of the times except few) because as we all had in our mind that this is life and we single handedly can not do any thing, but you know what that there is something special in each of us but not everything, so all we need to do is get togeather and form this kinda army to fight such issues (if not much then only to let the common peoples know what their powers are) and as I don`t know if you have gone through some of those threads for "RURAL DEVELOPMENT" and unfortunatley we are missing your participation in that if you got some spare time for that function.
EVEN DEV UNCLE ji and other senior members I would like to suggest the name of DHIREN ji for acting as an ATTORNY to deal with legal matters for our commitee if he is able and capable (no doubts from my side) to do so...

CHEERS

Dhiren bhai ji,

Please hold on, else a bigger sin is likely to be committed by all of us; incase we start discussing the situation on ground vis-a -vis what the JATS are suppose to be?It will be better and appropriate, incase we discuss the whole issue under three main headings like:

a] Genesis of the problem[ Which you brought out]
b] Present Situation.
c] Solution/suggestion to bring the community on track.

Merely criticizing the community will not help a bit. Hope you ponder over the suggestion?


Regards.

[pup030]

DEV ji you are on right track and I know what exactly you are asking and

I would like to ask DHIREN bhai that how many times have you drive passed on your way, ignoring any policeman or any common people fighting or bashing a weak and poor person (infact nor do I most of the times except few) because as we all had in our mind that this is life and we single handedly can not do any thing, but you know what that there is something special in each of us but not everything, so all we need to do is get togeather and form this kinda army to fight such issues (if not much then only to let the common peoples know what their powers are) and as I don`t know if you have gone through some of those threads for "RURAL DEVELOPMENT" and unfortunatley we are missing your participation in that if you got some spare time for that function.
EVEN DEV UNCLE ji and other senior members I would like to suggest the name of DHIREN ji for acting as an ATTORNY to deal with legal matters for our commitee if he is able and capable (no doubts from my side) to do so...

CHEERS

Dear Pammu Bhai,

Nice that your beliefs and feelings are quite similar to mine with regard to the issue being discussed. To give you an example of my actions I would just give a short insight into some incidents which happened a few years back.
It was one of such incidents which have happened over a life time. It was a some years back that I had started practicing law and used to commute from Gurgaon to Delhi by a chartered bus which used to ferry lawyers, policemen and staff from different ministries and the central government offices in Delhi. On one such morning a nice looking gentleman got into the bus and he was a stranger but one was shocked to see this chap acting funny with a lady who was a daily commuter. It was the most disgusting and revolting act one had seen and the lady could not gather the courage to speak out. Or perhaps she did not want to create a scene but I could see the discomfort the lady was undergoing. I got up and went straight to this guy and whispered in his ear to let go and restrain but he did not budge and retorted back. Well I pulled him to the back of the bus and gave him some knocks which turned out to be to hard on him and he was disembarked at the next stop. Next day two constables got into the same bus with that man and the man identified me. I was asked to come to the PS Udyog Vihar. A case had been registered against me under sections 323,324 and 506 IPC. Since I am from the legal community, I got the bail and the case is still under trial. Then there was an incident wherein a constable was hassling a poor lady in the court complex I practice in and I intervened and it led to some fisticuffs and later a case against me was registered under sections which pertain to obstructing a public servant in discharge of his duty. Its a different story that the constable in question was trying to extort money from this shrivelled, dirt poor lady. The trial continues in this case too.

Two instances of my intervention, two cases against me for all the right reasons but that has not diminished my spirit and it has made me a stronger person. I still continue to intervene for I am able to see things happening before my eyes in the correct perspective. I give a damn to those cases.Strangely what has baffled me at times is the reaction of colleagues who advise me to restrain myself.Even if i wanted to change myself i could not. That would be lying to my own true self.

As proposed by you, I offer my services to any member who wishes to pursue a legal remedy which could bring relief with regard to a cause and I would deliver. Waiting to hear from someone who needs something to be done for the larger good and I am available 24 x 7 for anyone who cares. Please read my thread in the current affairs section titled "Six degrees of Separation" and that would give another perspective on why we must do what we ought to reach out to someone in need.


Keep the spirit.

Dhiren Singh
Advocate

[poonam]

Dear Pammu Bhai,

Nice that your beliefs and feelings are quite similar to mine with regard to the issue being discussed. To give you an example of my actions I would just give a short insight into some incidents which happened a few years back.
It was one of such incidents which have happened over a life time. It was a some years back that I had started practicing law and used to commute from Gurgaon to Delhi by a chartered bus which used to ferry lawyers, policemen and staff from different ministries and the central government offices in Delhi. On one such morning a nice looking gentleman got into the bus and he was a stranger but one was shocked to see this chap acting funny with a lady who was a daily commuter. It was the most disgusting and revolting act one had seen and the lady could not gather the courage to speak out. Or perhaps she did not want to create a scene but I could see the discomfort the lady was undergoing. I got up and went straight to this guy and whispered in his ear to let go and restrain but he did not budge and retorted back. Well I pulled him to the back of the bus and gave him some knocks which turned out to be to hard on him and he was disembarked at the next stop. Next day two constables got into the same bus with that man and the man identified me. I was asked to come to the PS Udyog Vihar. A case had been registered against me under sections 323,324 and 506 IPC. Since I am from the legal community, I got the bail and the case is still under trial. Then there was an incident wherein a constable was hassling a poor lady in the court complex I practice in and I intervened and it led to some fisticuffs and later a case against me was registered under sections which pertain to obstructing a public servant in discharge of his duty. Its a different story that the constable in question was trying to extort money from this shrivelled, dirt poor lady. The trial continues in this case too.

Two instances of my intervention, two cases against me for all the right reasons but that has not diminished my spirit and it has made me a stronger person. I still continue to intervene for I am able to see things happening before my eyes in the correct perspective. I give a damn to those cases.Strangely what has baffled me at times is the reaction of colleagues who advise me to restrain myself.Even if i wanted to change myself i could not. That would be lying to my own true self.

As proposed by you, I offer my services to any member who wishes to pursue a legal remedy which could bring relief with regard to a cause and I would deliver. Waiting to hear from someone who needs something to be done for the larger good and I am available 24 x 7 for anyone who cares. Please read my thread in the current affairs section titled "Six degrees of Separation" and that would give another perspective on why we must do what we ought to reach out to someone in need.


Keep the spirit.


.[/COLOR]Dhiren Singh
Advocate


Real Life Hero you, Dhiren!!

P.S. You know after reading this you reminded me of 'Damini'(one of my favorite hindi movies). Amazed to know that we do have these heroes in real life ...not just in reel life.. :).
My thumbs up to you, Dhiren

[devdahiya]

Real Life Hero you, Dhiren!!

P.S. You know after reading this you reminded me of 'Damini'(one of my favorite hindi movies). Amazed to know that we do have these heroes in real life ...not just in reel life.. :).
My thumbs up to you, Dhiren



Bhai Dhiren ji,

Now i must give you shabashi to be on the side of the truth on those two occasions. Good&keep it up! All of us are unsung heros in some or other respect[sometime or other in life time] but unfortunately don't recognise each other's worth or may be God does not want it to be highlighted. What a pity? Keep doing the good job brother[however Hitting someone may not be a good idea at all] God speed! Dr poonam ki baat tei galat ho-e na sakti...beshak barhma galat ho ske se....Nahi poonam? ha...ha..ha....Great human being she is!

[shailendra]

Two instances of my intervention, two cases against me for all the right reasons but that has not diminished my spirit and it has made me a stronger person. I still continue to intervene for I am able to see things happening before my eyes in the correct perspective. I give a damn to those cases.Strangely what has baffled me at times is the reaction of colleagues who advise me to restrain myself.Even if i wanted to change myself i could not. That would be lying to my own true self.


Keep the spirit.

Dhiren Singh
Advocate

Bravo! Proud to have come in contact with a 'Guy with Guts' like you...
My Compliments Dhiren... and even more strength to you on your strong convictions!

[dreamz0802]

datz just too GR8 DHIREN bhai, but the thing is that this is all you can do or refrain those dirty, sleezy peoples from doing those activities of misconduct, when the scene comes to your scenario but there are still many peoples suffering behind, for them there is no DHIREN. So that is what we as an team can do and I am really greatfull for accepting and extending your helpfull and strong hand for this task.
We`ll do all this very soon (as described in previous threads)

CHEERS

Dear Pammu Bhai,

Nice that your beliefs and feelings are quite similar to mine with regard to the issue being discussed. To give you an example of my actions I would just give a short insight into some incidents which happened a few years back.


Dhiren Singh
Advocate

[pup030]

Dear Shailendra, Poonam and Pammu,

Felt nice to have read your comments but at the same time its important not to let your encouragement go to my head for if it does then I would be treading the oft repeated mistakes some folks with the same convictions have committed in the past. Just be your true self and just do it. One has to learn and understand that gut feelings and instict never let you go wrong. Bring in other pros, cons and considerations into play and the mind gets perplexed, confused and the sensitivities tend to go numb.

And Pammu Bhai, lets get some things done to demonstrate that we could really move things and make a difference collectively and seriously so devoid of any other motives. Using a bit of cautioning language for I have seen people approaching one with an idea to help but disappointingly the same activist turned out to be making money or building a constituency in the garb of activism. Please do not take the aforesaid caution personally. Do Keep me posted about what idea you would like to work on and initiate demonstrative action to wake people out of their slumber. I promise to be with you through and through.

Got to rush to the court now.

Warm regards you folks.

Dhiren Singh
Advocate

[spdeshwal]

Dhiren bhai,

I appreciate you concern about the senseless action of the community !

I remember an incident told by elders that had taken place some times in 60s.

A well known Jat Lawyer of Rohatak was slapped by a Baniya of Railway Road Rohtak.That lawyer came from a well known Jat family of the region. That incident had a profound impact on the Lawyer and that caused him to withdrew socially. In fact he did not live very long after that incident. Many members from Rohtak may be knowing about the incident including you if are from there. I don't want to name him.
He and his Family had high place in society ( jise kahte hnai na ki Dhak thi sare region mai)

If we analyse this incident from a social psycholgist point of view, our investigation prob. lead to the theory:

His "EGO" was hurt when he was publicly humiliated and that resulted in "Low Self Esteem"
A person with low self esteem can indulge or forced to indulge in two type of activities; Internal which are self destructive and External which can be both self destructive and harming others.

In my view, same type of psychlogical phenomeon has been working behind the recent events at Gohana. Situation was aggrevated by sensationalization by media of the actual happennings.

If we reverse the actors in the story, all involved would have been more patient, give admin some more time and in most probability, there would not have been ultimate action of setting on fire the houses of those who would have been involved in the murder

If we analyse further, the participants or I would say people who lead these panchayats suffer from some kind of insecurities. They feel left behind and neglected and constantly indulge in activities to draw the attention of others.
Scapegoats are always economically and socially weak people of our on community. They are a bunch of Low Esteem Creatures.
The corrective measures can be initiated through educating them and involving them in more constructive activites like The Proposed Rural Meet at Rohtak. Interaction of the organisations like Jatland.com can go a long way to help to improve the situation.

May God show our community the 'Right Path'!

[positivelook]

Dhien Bhai Saab

First of all i appreciate ur invovement iin some of the cases which were shame on the humanity. But as u have provide few examples here so i would like to say that today the situation is getting worse and the reason behind this is lack of good leadership, and poor knowledge and unemployement is another cause for this. Today our youth is heading towards the wrong direction as u see in the Mitraon village incidence, this story started from village mitraon and noweven this bloody war already lost its originality and now these people become gangsters and whole NCR area is effected due to this. I know lots ogf youths who are going in this direction because our own people use them for their own sake. In gohana whatever happened was not good but i think the police has played a vital role in that also cos police was present their as spectator. But i want to say that these are not good signs for our community. One more thing i want to pointout here is its only the Jta youth today going in the wrong direction and reason for that is lack of good leaders in villages. So now this is the right time to take some initiative towards this, iof we really want to save our villages and community from these bloody wars than we have to work as a team and thatswhy we are planning to work together and first initiative in this is Ruarl convention at Rohtak. Well we just want to see how many serious people we get with us but i clearly want to mention here is i beleive in word of mouth.

So try some action now else be prepare urself to see dark side!

Abhimanyu Phougat

[vdeswal]

hye, dunno why??? but after reading these previous posts and specialy the one whr you knocked down couple of miscreants, i have started feeling tht you wouldn't be differnet then those horns locked men:

"if tht Village Mitrao case happens in your family"

However, shouldn't happen to anyone,my prayers to LORD.

My suggestions:

You could have got tht man to Police station instead of throwing hammer punches on him,means you made a bigger mistake then wht he was doing and facing trials still for the same.Had you done this lawfully then all sitting in tht bus will gather courage to do the same if in future it happnes again. but now i guess not many will be interested in getting themselves indulged practically depneding upon their biceps/triceps sizes.

Dhiren, wht matters is the procedure not output.Because if your procedure is rgt THEN OUTPUT GOT NO CHOICE BUT BEING RIGHT.your previously mentioned unplanned spur of the moment actions put you in trouble instead of giving any solutions.You really think its tht worthy!!!!

You beat tht man in bus and he came back with another attack you still fighting.
You caught tht constable he attacked bk, you still fighting on trials.

On street level cases it is taking you months to solve,wht s**t you know about mahapanchyats, or JAT community's proactive membranes. Anyways,this time when you revert back to this post, think/plan and then act.

ALSO COMMUNITY PROBELM EXIST EVERYWHERE AND IN ALMOST SAME CONTEXT THEN WHY THE HELL ARE WE BLAMING JAATS FOR FIGHTING OR ANY OTHER SO CALLED JAAT ACTIVITY. PUNJABI/SIKH/MALYAALI/GUJRATI,ENGLISH,AUSTRALIANS,MEXICAN, AREY SAB JOOT BAJAWAI SAI BHAI,AR SAB RAAZI BHI RAHVEY SAI,YO BHAGWAAN KA INCORPORATED ELEMENT SAI. KYON KI JAI SAB THEEK HOGEY TAI PHER BHAGWAAN GELYAAN JOOT BAJAWENGEY.

So let's discuss on some broader spectrum on ideas like education to all, electric fascility to villages,better disinfecatants for their crops,micro finacing for the poors etc. then suffusing us with smthing like land fights etc.

JAT (Jamaa Aandi Thaatti)-abhi banayaa hai thodey or ideas do isko refine karney ke.

[pup030]

hye, dunno why??? but after reading these previous posts and specialy the one whr you knocked down couple of miscreants, i have started feeling tht you wouldn't be differnet then those horns locked men:

"if tht Village Mitrao case happens in your family"

However, shouldn't happen to anyone,my prayers to LORD.

My suggestions:

You could have got tht man to Police station instead of throwing hammer punches on him,means you made a bigger mistake then wht he was doing and facing trials still for the same.Had you done this lawfully then all sitting in tht bus will gather courage to do the same if in future it happnes again. but now i guess not many will be interested in getting themselves indulged practically depneding upon their biceps/triceps sizes.

Dhiren, wht matters is the procedure not output.Because if your procedure is rgt THEN OUTPUT GOT NO CHOICE BUT BEING RIGHT.your previously mentioned unplanned spur of the moment actions put you in trouble instead of giving any solutions.You really think its tht worthy!!!!

You beat tht man in bus and he came back with another attack you still fighting.
You caught tht constable he attacked bk, you still fighting on trials.

On street level cases it is taking you months to solve,wht s**t you know about mahapanchyats, or JAT community's proactive membranes. Anyways,this time when you revert back to this post, think/plan and then act.

ALSO COMMUNITY PROBELM EXIST EVERYWHERE AND IN ALMOST SAME CONTEXT THEN WHY THE HELL ARE WE BLAMING JAATS FOR FIGHTING OR ANY OTHER SO CALLED JAAT ACTIVITY. PUNJABI/SIKH/MALYAALI/GUJRATI,ENGLISH,AUSTRALIANS,MEXICAN, AREY SAB JOOT BAJAWAI SAI BHAI,AR SAB RAAZI BHI RAHVEY SAI,YO BHAGWAAN KA INCORPORATED ELEMENT SAI. KYON KI JAI SAB THEEK HOGEY TAI PHER BHAGWAAN GELYAAN JOOT BAJAWENGEY.

So let's discuss on some broader spectrum on ideas like education to all, electric fascility to villages,better disinfecatants for their crops,micro finacing for the poors etc. then suffusing us with smthing like land fights etc.

JAT (Jamaa Aandi Thaatti)-abhi banayaa hai thodey or ideas do isko refine karney ke.

Dear Vijay,

I quote your signature "WHAT WE STAND FOR IS MORE IMPORTANT THEN WHAT WE STAND IN" and then read it in the context of your post. Prima facie divergent views. Well, either you ought to change the aforecited quote or perhaps give a thought to what each person has tried to communicate vide their respective posts.

You did talk about procedures. So here it goes.. if anyones' sister or a woman acquaintance was being molested in full view of the person concerned would you still be advising to follow the "Procedures". Let me inform you that even the law affords protection to a person who causes injury, hurt or even death to or of another person in order to prevent the commission of a bigger offence. The inury, hurt or death so caused has to be commensurate to the anticipated offence which was prevented by that person. And for the protection afforded by the law to come into play needs a trial and thats what I am doing . Thats the procedure my friend. Two dates of hearings in two months is a small price for standing up.

Besides, why this thread about my community then the apt answer would be that I live in a world full of different communities but the community I know best is my own and I wish that some things ought to change which leads the community forward and be at par with the rest socially, economically and culturally.

Waiting to hear from you.

Dhiren Singh
Advocate

[devdahiya]

Dhiren bhai,

I appreciate you concern about the senseless action of the community !

I remember an incident told by elders that had taken place some times in 60s.

A well known Jat Lawyer of Rohatak was slapped by a Baniya of Railway Road Rohtak.That lawyer came from a well known Jat family of the region. That incident had a profound impact on the Lawyer and that caused him to withdrew socially. In fact he did not live very long after that incident. Many members from Rohtak may be knowing about the incident including you if are from there. I don't want to name him.
He and his Family had high place in society ( jise kahte hnai na ki Dhak thi sare region mai)

If we analyse this incident from a social psycholgist point of view, our investigation prob. lead to the theory:

His "EGO" was hurt when he was publicly humiliated and that resulted in "Low Self Esteem"
A person with low self esteem can indulge or forced to indulge in two type of activities; Internal which are self destructive and External which can be both self destructive and harming others.

In my view, same type of psychlogical phenomeon has been working behind the recent events at Gohana. Situation was aggrevated by sensationalization by media of the actual happennings.

If we reverse the actors in the story, all involved would have been more patient, give admin some more time and in most probability, there would not have been ultimate action of setting on fire the houses of those who would have been involved in the murder

If we analyse further, the participants or I would say people who lead these panchayats suffer from some kind of insecurities. They feel left behind and neglected and constantly indulge in activities to draw the attention of others.
Scapegoats are always economically and socially weak people of our on community. They are a bunch of Low Esteem Creatures.
The corrective measures can be initiated through educating them and involving them in more constructive activites like The Proposed Rural Meet at Rohtak. Interaction of the organisations like Jatland.com can go a long way to help to improve the situation.

May God show our community the 'Right Path'!




Bang on targed Steypal ji.I am aware of the true episode you brought out and have interacted with the family. WO DIN IZZAT KE THHE...AAZ SHATIR DEMMAGON KE HEIN. Any way, very well brought out.

[meetmanu]

hye, dunno why??? but after reading these previous posts and specialy the one whr you knocked down couple of miscreants, i have started feeling tht you wouldn't be differnet then those horns locked men:

"if tht Village Mitrao case happens in your family"

However, shouldn't happen to anyone,my prayers to LORD.

My suggestions:

You could have got tht man to Police station instead of throwing hammer punches on him,means you made a bigger mistake then wht he was doing and facing trials still for the same.Had you done this lawfully then all sitting in tht bus will gather courage to do the same if in future it happnes again. but now i guess not many will be interested in getting themselves indulged practically depneding upon their biceps/triceps sizes.

Dhiren, wht matters is the procedure not output.Because if your procedure is rgt THEN OUTPUT GOT NO CHOICE BUT BEING RIGHT.your previously mentioned unplanned spur of the moment actions put you in trouble instead of giving any solutions.You really think its tht worthy!!!!

You beat tht man in bus and he came back with another attack you still fighting.
You caught tht constable he attacked bk, you still fighting on trials.

On street level cases it is taking you months to solve,wht s**t you know about mahapanchyats, or JAT community's proactive membranes. Anyways,this time when you revert back to this post, think/plan and then act.

ALSO COMMUNITY PROBELM EXIST EVERYWHERE AND IN ALMOST SAME CONTEXT THEN WHY THE HELL ARE WE BLAMING JAATS FOR FIGHTING OR ANY OTHER SO CALLED JAAT ACTIVITY. PUNJABI/SIKH/MALYAALI/GUJRATI,ENGLISH,AUSTRALIANS,MEXICAN, AREY SAB JOOT BAJAWAI SAI BHAI,AR SAB RAAZI BHI RAHVEY SAI,YO BHAGWAAN KA INCORPORATED ELEMENT SAI. KYON KI JAI SAB THEEK HOGEY TAI PHER BHAGWAAN GELYAAN JOOT BAJAWENGEY.

So let's discuss on some broader spectrum on ideas like education to all, electric fascility to villages,better disinfecatants for their crops,micro finacing for the poors etc. then suffusing us with smthing like land fights etc.

JAT (Jamaa Aandi Thaatti)-abhi banayaa hai thodey or ideas do isko refine karney ke.

Dear Vijay,

I can understand that you have a different outlook and that's why you took a stance that is in total contrast to the other respondents to Dhiren's mail, but I wonder why did you feel the need to use expletives to express whatever you wanted to say? Does that make you feel like a "biggie" or something?

You have also rightly said that these problems exist in almost all the communities, but does that mean that nobody should take any initiative to change the status quo? If that would have been the case (thank heavens, it is not) then this world still would be in the dark ages. It takes guts and perseverance to swim against the tide; and if this is being done for a selfless motive, that is really special. Let's respect the spirit of someone who cared to rise above me/mine/myself and think about doing something to remove some of many vices plaguing our community. It is absolutely fine to express your opinion, even if it takes a differing stance, but do it in a dignified fashion.

Best!

Manu

[positivelook]

hi Vijay

I think u are talking two different things in ur thread. One u r saying if the Mitraon tragedy happens in ur family than .>>>>> and the other hand ur saying to dhirender abt following the procedure so wht does this mean my friend. i didnt got ur viewpoint on this because u cant talk like this. You have to support the one side of coin instead of both sides. So just think abt this.

ok
Abhimanyu Phougat

[vdeswal]

[QUOTE=pup030]Dear Vijay,

I quote your signature "WHAT WE STAND FOR IS MORE IMPORTANT THEN WHAT WE STAND IN" and then read it in the context of your post. Prima facie divergent views. Well, either you ought to change the aforecited quote or perhaps give a thought to what each person has tried to communicate vide their respective posts.

>>>>>YOUR WORDS HAS MY ANSWER>>give a thought to what each person has tried to communicate vide their respective posts.

FUTHER TO YOUR POINTS BELOW:
You did talk about procedures. So here it goes.. if anyones' sister or a woman acquaintance was being molested in full view of the person concerned would you still be advising to follow the "Procedures".

Let me inform you that even the law affords protection to a person who causes injury, hurt or even death to or of another person in order to prevent the commission of a bigger offence. The inury, hurt or death so caused has to be commensurate to the anticipated offence which was prevented by that person. And for the protection afforded by the law to come into play needs a trial and thats what I am doing . Thats the procedure my friend. Two dates of hearings in two months is a small price for standing up.

>>>>>WHT HAPPENS WHN EVERYBODY STARTS TALKING THE SAME LANGUAGE OF TRIALS MY DEAR FRIEND.LET'S TALK DAY TO DAY LIFE AND GET TO THE ROOTS TO KNW HOW EFFICINT AND FRIENDLY THIS COURT LIFE IS TO A COMMON MAN. AND JUST BY READING THIS PREVIOUS SENTENCE NOW DON'T COME TO A CONCLUSION THT I DONT HAVE RESPECT FOR LAW OR I DON'T BELIEVE IN IT.HOWVERE DECISIONS MADE ON SPURS MAKES IT GOOD AND BEST.YOU DECIDED TO DO FIST FIGHT, I WOULD HAVE DECIDED TO SUFFUSE HIS ILL THINKING FOREVER.

ANYHOW, I HAVEN'T COME ACROSS ANY HERO-MISBEHAVING IN PUBLIC OPENLY IN "TODAYS WORLD" ON OUR MOTHERS AND SISTERS OR WIFE FOR THT MATTER AND ALSO TO BE FRANK, JAI KISEEY NAI CHHED DI AR USNEY SUDHARAN KE CHAKKAR MAI HUM BHI TRAILAAAN MEIN PHAS GEY, TAI BHAI DE DAAL MEIN PAANI.IN SIMPLE LANGUANGE,BE HARD ENUF TO HIT/SOLVE YOUR PROBELMS SO THT IT DOESN'T BOUNCE BACK AND THTS WHT I MEAN BY "PROCEDURES."

MOREOEVER MY POINT IS TO HANDLE PROBELMS IN MOST REFINED EDUCATED AND FOOLPROOF WAY INSTEAD OF BEING A PART OF IT.BECAUSE ONLYTHEN WE WILL MINIMISE THE GRAVITY OF PROBLEMS ND WILL BE ABLE TO MOVE AHEAD ON PRIORITISING IT'S SOLUTION OF MAKING OUR COMMUNITY BETTER THEN OTHERS AS MENTIONED IN YOUR LASTER SENSTENCES.

[pup030]

[QUOTE=pup030]Dear Vijay,

I quote your signature "WHAT WE STAND FOR IS MORE IMPORTANT THEN WHAT WE STAND IN" and then read it in the context of your post. Prima facie divergent views. Well, either you ought to change the aforecited quote or perhaps give a thought to what each person has tried to communicate vide their respective posts.

>>>>>YOUR WORDS HAS MY ANSWER>>give a thought to what each person has tried to communicate vide their respective posts.

FUTHER TO YOUR POINTS BELOW:
You did talk about procedures. So here it goes.. if anyones' sister or a woman acquaintance was being molested in full view of the person concerned would you still be advising to follow the "Procedures".

Let me inform you that even the law affords protection to a person who causes injury, hurt or even death to or of another person in order to prevent the commission of a bigger offence. The inury, hurt or death so caused has to be commensurate to the anticipated offence which was prevented by that person. And for the protection afforded by the law to come into play needs a trial and thats what I am doing . Thats the procedure my friend. Two dates of hearings in two months is a small price for standing up.

>>>>>WHT HAPPENS WHN EVERYBODY STARTS TALKING THE SAME LANGUAGE OF TRIALS MY DEAR FRIEND.LET'S TALK DAY TO DAY LIFE AND GET TO THE ROOTS TO KNW HOW EFFICINT AND FRIENDLY THIS COURT LIFE IS TO A COMMON MAN. AND JUST BY READING THIS PREVIOUS SENTENCE NOW DON'T COME TO A CONCLUSION THT I DONT HAVE RESPECT FOR LAW OR I DON'T BELIEVE IN IT.HOWVERE DECISIONS MADE ON SPURS MAKES IT GOOD AND BEST.YOU DECIDED TO DO FIST FIGHT, I WOULD HAVE DECIDED TO SUFFUSE HIS ILL THINKING FOREVER.

ANYHOW, I HAVEN'T COME ACROSS ANY HERO-MISBEHAVING IN PUBLIC OPENLY IN "TODAYS WORLD" ON OUR MOTHERS AND SISTERS OR WIFE FOR THT MATTER AND ALSO TO BE FRANK, JAI KISEEY NAI CHHED DI AR USNEY SUDHARAN KE CHAKKAR MAI HUM BHI TRAILAAAN MEIN PHAS GEY, TAI BHAI DE DAAL MEIN PAANI.IN SIMPLE LANGUANGE,BE HARD ENUF TO HIT/SOLVE YOUR PROBELMS SO THT IT DOESN'T BOUNCE BACK AND THTS WHT I MEAN BY "PROCEDURES."

MOREOEVER MY POINT IS TO HANDLE PROBELMS IN MOST REFINED EDUCATED AND FOOLPROOF WAY INSTEAD OF BEING A PART OF IT.BECAUSE ONLYTHEN WE WILL MINIMISE THE GRAVITY OF PROBLEMS ND WILL BE ABLE TO MOVE AHEAD ON PRIORITISING IT'S SOLUTION OF MAKING OUR COMMUNITY BETTER THEN OTHERS AS MENTIONED IN YOUR LASTER SENSTENCES.

Dear Vijay,

I do not really know what words to choose in order to give an apt reply to your perspective. Anyway, to begin with you seem like besotted with some sort of confusion or you are too inward looking which makes clarity of thought something distant for you. I might be sounding harsh but then this was the best manner I could respond in.

I really do not understand what you really wish to express. Does anyone have a clue..please do let me know. I would ask Vijay to use simpler and plain language which clearly spells what he seeks to communicate.

Dhiren Singh
Advocate

[rajeshnehra]

Hi Dhiren !
YOU ARE RIGHT AND CONTINUE WHAT YOU ARE DOING .........BEST OF LUCK
Dr.Nehra

[jitendershooda]

1. On one such morning a nice looking gentleman got into the bus and he was a stranger but one was shocked to see this chap acting funny with a lady who was a daily commuter. It was the most disgusting and revolting act one had seen and the lady could not gather the courage to speak out. Or perhaps she did not want to create a scene but I could see the discomfort the lady was undergoing. I got up and went straight to this guy and whispered in his ear to let go and restrain but he did not budge and retorted back. Well I pulled him to the back of the bus and gave him some knocks which turned out to be to hard on him and he was disembarked at the next stop. Next day two constables got into the same bus with that man and the man identified me. I was asked to come to the PS Udyog Vihar. A case had been registered against me under sections 323,324 and 506 IPC. Since I am from the legal community, I got the bail and the case is still under trial.


2. Then there was an incident wherein a constable was hassling a poor lady in the court complex I practice in and I intervened and it led to some fisticuffs and later a case against me was registered under sections which pertain to obstructing a public servant in discharge of his duty. Its a different story that the constable in question was trying to extort money from this shrivelled, dirt poor lady. The trial continues in this case too.

Two instances of my intervention, two cases against me for all the right reasons but that has not diminished my spirit and it has made me a stronger person. I still continue to intervene for I am able to see things happening before my eyes in the correct perspective. I give a damn to those cases.Strangely what has baffled me at times is the reaction of colleagues who advise me to restrain myself.Even if i wanted to change myself i could not. That would be lying to my own true self.

As proposed by you, I offer my services to any member who wishes to pursue a legal remedy which could bring relief with regard to a cause and I would deliver. Waiting to hear from someone who needs something to be done for the larger good and I am available 24 x 7 for anyone who cares. Please read my thread in the current affairs section titled "Six degrees of Separation" and that would give another perspective on why we must do what we ought to reach out to someone in need.


Keep the spirit.

Dhiren Singh
Advocate

Ram ram Dhiren Bhai,

You have mentioned that you faced two incidents and according to you in both the cases you got angry and forget the LAW path even being a Lawyer.

Though in both the cases what Vijay Deswal told was the right approach if you really wish to respect the LAW. But in both the incidents you too took the other path ( to take the LAW in your hands and tried to solve the Problem in a Heroic Manner ...... WHY ? SITA KISE KI THI ER PUNJHAD Apne JALWAI .... Wo bhi isse senseless community ka e asar tha bhai kite deep mein ja ke dekhya ja to .... aapki jegah agar koe punjabi baniya hota to na karta isa kaam ... )


# Location: Gohana (Example of Senseless community action)....Its really a mad world we live in and it all started with the murder of a local Jat trader and financier, given a inter community colour by vested interests and over enthuistic chaps from the community, the reason being that the murderers were SC(scheduled caste). A mob is marshalled which goes on to torch the home and hearth of folks from the same SC community. Could there be something more senseless. This was a purely mediveal conduct.


Bhai one thing is really pinching me is that may be you can have different opinion with what was done by the JATs in Gohana but you should put the right things here na ..." it all started with the murder of a local Jat trader and financier, given a inter community colour by vested interests and over enthuistic chaps from the community" ......

WA 12 gaman ki panchayat ke sirf jatan ki thi ...??

Bhai, it was not started instantly with the murder of a local Jat trader ....but reality was that due to the continuous courageous activities of those People lead to this incident ....

They committed a RAPE to a gal of near by Village some times back, that is open and may be others those may not gone open ... and 2 instant murders and lot other small kidnap like issues were there ...and it became a daily routine for them to commit such activities ......

So Dhiren you got angry at the abuse of a Lady that you only knew ....and beaten up that guy ... so think of the Brothers/Parents of that Girl who was a RAPE victim ???? You himself told that "i wanted to change myself i could not." Te bhai ye JAT coum bhi dhire dhire change hogi ...

HERE WE CAN HAVE DIFFERENT OPINIONS THAT WHATEVER PATH TAKEN WAS OK OR WRONG ....but atleast accept this thing that it was not at all communal act and not they got aroused of a single incident ... But They all got very irritated ( NAAK MEIN DAM AALIYA THA UNKE ) with the daily activities and it took nearly an year or two and list of rapes...murders and kidnaps ....to come to such an action ....

I was there in Gohana last year Dec. and at that time those SC's kidnapped a Guy after a small dispute and then left him badly beaten up. And this was not the only incident ....

Its nice to see your helping words for any legal remedy ... so get ready bhai kade bhi koe case leke aa sakun hun .. [ par bina fees ladna padega ...ha ha .. :) ]

Ek be Dev ji ne ek kavita hi bana ke ne kahya tha ek YE JAT KAUM HAI MHARI BHOLI BHALI ..... bhai ye jaat ghane kootniti aale te hote nahi er jib choh aa jya hai te inke bas mein nahi raheta ....er yohe hua hai hude us kand mein bhi ........KAUM KE BARSON PURANE MIJAJ KO BADALNE MEIN TIME LAGEGA ....

[spdeshwal]

Dhirenji Agar mere jaisa ek molad aapke sath aur aajata us bus mai kuchh jyada pitai ho jaati to kya hota? Aur agar wo lucha lafanga galti se dalit hota to kya hota? Aur aapne te bera e se aapne bawlyna ka. Issa moka dekhte hi baat ka bera ho chahe na, nu kahange aaja re ham bhi seklyna do char. Aur baat hathse aapke bhi nikal jati.

This is very commom. That what precisely happened at Gohana.
The residents fled the colony to get away from the police interogation and not from the fear of the villagers. Also Panchayat never instructed to attack rhem .
It was only a few over exited youth who embarked on that attack and wanted to teach a lesson only to those who were involved in the murder and other atrocities. Lekin durbhagay se tamashgir, haath sekne wale aa gushe bhich mai and the situation become out of control.

Aap thik kahte Bhai Devji, aaj shatir politicians aur kuchh khud garj log haavi hnai in panchayto par. Swami karampal jaise log jinhone pahle kafi achhe kam kiye hnai abh politician ki kathpootli ban jaate hnai.

Jitender Hoodaji, " ye jat kaum hai mahari bholi bhali" is 100% true and believable.

Kanhi bhi bahkave mai aakar truckno or tractoro mai bhar kar in politicians ke saath ho lete hnai.

Aapne dekha hoga last wali panchayat ko kaise rally mai badal diya aur ultimatum dilwadiya 20 tarikh tak. It was surely a political move to embrass the CM. He may not be able to react in either way because of the election on 28 sep.

Aur ab baari aati hai ham jaise logo ki, hume sirf jatland par likhne tak hi seemit nahi rahana chahiye. Jo bhai bahan is position mnai hai, mera matlab hai sampark mai hai, they should actively take part in these panchayats. Safai to kichad mnai utarne se hi hogi. Jimedari ham sab ko nibhani hi padegi.

[sampuran]

Namaskar ! To everyone on the forum. Thanks to Dhiren Bhai for initiating a very appropriate debate. The arson and looting of the homes of Balmikis was a cowardly and reprehensible act. In no way does it demonstrate the bravery Jats have inherited from their ancestors.
Before writing further on the subject, some clarification about various thought posted by other members, are in order.

Mitraon can be called a symbol of what is wrong with Jat society today. However, it is wrong to say that no effort was made by concerned people to hammer out peace. There were numerous, at almost all stages of the dispute between the two warring groups. However, whichever of the two had an upper hand, would scuttle the efforts. Solution was made difficult by the fact that many within the village had their sons deep into this gangstership. These were the ‘kamau poots’. Even if by dacoity. These people were afraid of losing the abundant flow of easy money.
The role of the Delhi Police is something shameful for Indian nation. One SHO of Najafgarh had to be transferred because he would inform the gangster before any raid was to commence.
Then, the Special branch staged encounter killings of only one of the gangs. This was the one which was gradually gaining an upper hand. This was the one not involved in any extortions. They were simply taking revenge for their kith and kin who had been killed.
The other one had political connections. When they were losing ground, most of them surrendered and went into state protection inside the Tihar jail. It seems the DP was paid heavily at this juncture and that’s the reason for Special branch wiping out their rivals.

Second case was of some love marriage by boy and girl of the same village. Do you know the rationale behind comparing Gotras before marriage is finalized ? Have you understood the theories of Survival of the Fittest and ‘Mandels law of Natural Selection’ ? Much before the westerners came to discover these, our forefathers had been putting the same to everyday practice.
Children born out of wedlock between close relatives have much higher probability of birth defects. Also recessive genes do not get a chance to be rejected, because both parents may have the same gene as recessive. So you have greated occurances of hereditary diesesases like, leukemia, night blindness, colour blindness, heart attack, diabetes, dementia, proneness to a specific illness. Take the example of muslims who generally marry within close relatives. See the ghetto mentality they have, and a very limited worldview (tolerance). Inspite of their large population, not one invention has come out of the Islamic countries in the last so many centuries. And we really don’t know the effect of recessive genes because scientific study has not been undertaken specific to that religion.
Our fore-fathers were not fools to lay down that marriage should not be done if any of the four Gotras of the boy or girl side are common - own, mother’s, paternal grand mother’s and maternal grand mother’s. It is different matter that we have forgotten the reasoning and follow think it just to be another old tradition. And the educated ones decry it as a medieval practice.

Somebody on the forum has written about other side of the Gohana story. Surely it must have been a case of ‘ Ab to pani sir ke oopar se chala gaya’. But how does one justify the vandalizing of innocent people’s homes ? There is no ‘mardangi’ in that. Anybody can beat up a weaker person, what have the perpetrators of this action achieved or proved ?

Mardon wali baat will be something that the Shias of POK have been doing in recent times. For too long they have been traumatized by the Sunni Pak establishment. Pakis along with the terrorist groups have been carrying our regular massacres of the Shias and Hunjas of POK. Now the victims have fanned out through out Pakistan and they are the ones helping US in capturing the Al-Queda elements. They directly inform the US forces, knowing fully well that paki police is hand in glove with the terrorists. And whichever Sunni is not on the wanted list of US, they kill that guy themselves.

So if the people of Gohana and surrounding areas were fed up with some rouges elements in the Balmiki community, then they should have finished off the criminals, not vandalized the homes of common people.

At another level, casteism has no religious sanction. The enemies of Indian society always try to malign our civillisation and religion by spreading falsehood. We have to take immediate steps counter their propaganda and, at the same time, educate fellow Indians to give up caste related prejudices. If the followers of Swami Dayanand, Jats, don’t do it, no body can.

Abhimanyu Phogat Bhai, that idea of Rural convention is a good beginning. Could you keep us apprised of the happenings.

[raj_rathee]

I love the righteous path and the intellectual discussions stemming from
it. Humanity and moral integrity is an integral part of any civilised
society...and we should strive for that.

At the same time, practicality and ground realities is also a consideration. If the law of the land was fair and it was properly enforced, then in most circumstances...incidents like Gohana would probably not have happened.
But lets face it. Indian system is corrupt and the keepers of the law
are up for sale.

While some of us would like to do our part to stand up and be righteous, in the
mean time the rest of us need to take care of ourselves. In a system of
"Jiski laathi uski bhains", I would prefer to be the one with the "lathi"...
morality and righteousness be damned.

So, just as I stand by my loved ones who resort to alternative approaches
to seek justice and protect their honor and dignity, I stand by the Jats in Gohana.

[sanjaysiwach]

Dear all,

Gohana incident is not based on community .It is a fight against injustice and crime. Please read from jitender forum, he is aware of realty.

[stokas]

TO WHOMSOEVER IT MAY CONCERN

# Location: Village-Mitraon, Delhi (Example of shameless community silence).... It all started with a dispute between two families over a petty piece of land(dearer then dear life), horns locked by the male members from both the side, bloodshed ensued, local criminal gets into the fray and support of one family, further bloodshed, softest targets taken out from either side, total casualities...hold your breath..almost 70. Youth from the village and neighbouring areas criminalized and indoctrinated into a life of crime. Result.. the emergence of the deadliest criminal gangs in Delhi and NCR.
The Shameless community silence : Vis a vis the the incidents in Village Mitraon, the community remained a silent spectator and shamelessly, whatever happened to those rustic, medieval Mahapanchayats which often speak on behalf of the community and assign themselves al the wisdom of settling matters in community terms. But funnily, elsewhere the same mahapanchayats come to the fore vociferously when ever a boy and a girl from the same village take the step of loving and getting married. Well, those poor little things have to bear the brunt and the anger of these Panchayats being soft targets. Why did no such initiative take place with regard to Mitraon???? Hit yourself on the head and find an answer.

I am proud to be born a Jat but would never want myself to be identified by conduct with the likes of Narender Modi's and people of his ilk. Would you?????

I do not see any logic or fair reasoning vis a vis the senseless action and shameless silence on the part of the community, do you???

Dhiren Singh
Advocate

I respect your feelings for our community Dhiren bhai,

Whatever happened in Mitraon village was an act of 'Jatness'. And that was obvious!!

One party had purchased some agricultural land from other. After many years, during some negotiations in a 'panchayat' - the other party somehow abused the first party's parents. This got the first party angered and their real Jatness started to crop-up. And the rest is history!!

While, this is a case from a Delhi village - sometimes I wonder about other backward areas - what could be the situation over there??

I am sure, our politicians are the real culprits for all this. Without their help, not a single criminal could survive for long. Isn't it??

These politicians may be the directors for every wrong act - if I am not wrong?

If they must have acted on right time and perspective - we wouldn't have seen some of those 70 deaths in Mitraon village!!

And what to say about our panchayats?? No words on this!

Regards,

Shailendra

[mayank_singh]

phogat sir on one side you criticise Jats for thier action aginst to so called dalits, and you also say that they should not take law in thier own hand.

you are a Advocate also, and you know all the rules and laws very well more than a common man then why you took Law in your own hand when you saw somebody misbehaving with a female, as per your ideology you should have reported the matter to police. Here you are trying to show yourself hero and on the other hand you want to show your self intelectual/Philosopher by criticisng the action of Jats of Gohana.

I think you are not aware of the facts.

It was also very said that you found some supporters on the jatland for the heroic act of yours in the Bus. I think you want to show yourself a hero here. my freind if people on jatland start writing their experience then you will find so many brave acts. Please stop self praising yourself and dont criticise Jats without any pakka sabut. Because you are a Lawyer.

Please dont take it to heart. I could not stop writing this when i saw your Dual Personality.


Dear Pammu Bhai,

Nice that your beliefs and feelings are quite similar to mine with regard to the issue being discussed. To give you an example of my actions I would just give a short insight into some incidents which happened a few years back.
It was one of such incidents which have happened over a life time. It was a some years back that I had started practicing law and used to commute from Gurgaon to Delhi by a chartered bus which used to ferry lawyers, policemen and staff from different ministries and the central government offices in Delhi. On one such morning a nice looking gentleman got into the bus and he was a stranger but one was shocked to see this chap acting funny with a lady who was a daily commuter. It was the most disgusting and revolting act one had seen and the lady could not gather the courage to speak out. Or perhaps she did not want to create a scene but I could see the discomfort the lady was undergoing. I got up and went straight to this guy and whispered in his ear to let go and restrain but he did not budge and retorted back. Well I pulled him to the back of the bus and gave him some knocks which turned out to be to hard on him and he was disembarked at the next stop. Next day two constables got into the same bus with that man and the man identified me. I was asked to come to the PS Udyog Vihar. A case had been registered against me under sections 323,324 and 506 IPC. Since I am from the legal community, I got the bail and the case is still under trial. Then there was an incident wherein a constable was hassling a poor lady in the court complex I practice in and I intervened and it led to some fisticuffs and later a case against me was registered under sections which pertain to obstructing a public servant in discharge of his duty. Its a different story that the constable in question was trying to extort money from this shrivelled, dirt poor lady. The trial continues in this case too.

Two instances of my intervention, two cases against me for all the right reasons but that has not diminished my spirit and it has made me a stronger person. I still continue to intervene for I am able to see things happening before my eyes in the correct perspective. I give a damn to those cases.Strangely what has baffled me at times is the reaction of colleagues who advise me to restrain myself.Even if i wanted to change myself i could not. That would be lying to my own true self.

As proposed by you, I offer my services to any member who wishes to pursue a legal remedy which could bring relief with regard to a cause and I would deliver. Waiting to hear from someone who needs something to be done for the larger good and I am available 24 x 7 for anyone who cares. Please read my thread in the current affairs section titled "Six degrees of Separation" and that would give another perspective on why we must do what we ought to reach out to someone in need.


Keep the spirit.

Dhiren Singh
Advocate

[pup030]

phogat sir on one side you criticise Jats for thier action aginst to so called dalits, and you also say that they should not take law in thier own hand.

you are a Advocate also, and you know all the rules and laws very well more than a common man then why you took Law in your own hand when you saw somebody misbehaving with a female, as per your ideology you should have reported the matter to police. Here you are trying to show yourself hero and on the other hand you want to show your self intelectual/Philosopher by criticisng the action of Jats of Gohana.

I think you are not aware of the facts.

It was also very said that you found some supporters on the jatland for the heroic act of yours in the Bus. I think you want to show yourself a hero here. my freind if people on jatland start writing their experience then you will find so many brave acts. Please stop self praising yourself and dont criticise Jats without any pakka sabut. Because you are a Lawyer.

Please dont take it to heart. I could not stop writing this when i saw your Dual Personality.

Dear Mayank,

There is a stark difference between the reactions of an individual and that of a group. An individual reacts in the given adverse circumstances in manner which is most conducive and mostly from the gut feeling and all along the right and wrong of it is in the knowledge of the individual.

Whereas, when groups or communities react its either a well orchestrated plan being acted upon or the group or community being taken for a ride by some vested interests of some individuals.

Me a hero, well, far from it my friend but nonetheless I know how to stand my ground. Do one thing today, visit any of the Police stations in Gurgaon and try to lodge a basic and simple Daily Diary report that would be Roznamcha about a lost document and you would come to your senses and perhaps a realisation would dawn upon you that you are treated no better then a second class citizen and you would be ashamed of being born in this country. You would feel all the above if your heart and mind is in the right place.


Need I say more, you are wise enough but one looks forward to your undertaking the above experiment and hearing from you about your experience. I hope you are not one of those with a very sheltered and cocooned existence. Come to the real world my friend. Awaiting to hear about your experiment with truth.

With warm regards

Dhiren Singh
Advocate

[devdahiya]

Dhiren bhai ji,

Please hold on, else a bigger sin is likely to be committed by all of us; incase we start discussing the situation on ground vis-a -vis what the JATS are suppose to be?It will be better and appropriate, incase we discuss the whole issue under three main headings like:

a] Genesis of the problem[ Which you brought out]
b] Present Situation.
c] Solution/suggestion to bring the community on track.

Merely criticizing the community will not help a bit. Hope you ponder over the suggestion?


Regards.



Respect worthy Dhiren bhai......I read your thread with interest that day and mind you, i was the first to react.I don't say that there was no merit in your utterances but the tone was loud and too condeming. We can not brand a COMMUNITY MADE OF OUR PARENTS AND RELATIVES AS BARBARIC AND USELESS IRRESPECTIVE OF KIND OF DEEDS IT PERFORMS.We should intervene and guide our people silently[if we have the capabilities] rather than shouting from the roof top that JAT COMMUNITY IS USELESS AND PRIMITIVE. what are we so called EDUCATED and 'BALIDANI' people doing in the surroundings to improve their lot? Or are we here to see 'TAMASHA' and call them names. Wisdom should dictare that it is dangerous to criticise our own blood even if the group is wrong at times because idealism does not exist on this planet.When Every cast or creed is busy playing dishonest games in
order to out do each other then How can we expect ALL CORRECT approach from our innocent people? Bhai Dhiren we are proud of you as an indvidual [you have done well for yourself and may be for the community too] and wish you best of luck and many more honours in times to come but my submission is that WHATEVER THESE JATS ARE....THEY ARE PART OF US AND WE OWE THEM MORE THAN OUR EACH DROP OF BLOOD.Let me ask you one question; How many BUDHEEJIVI jats went to Gohana and Chandigarh to put across the correct picture? Gohana was a sad chapter and if we remain busy in condeming our community than there will be many more Gohanas,Kharkhodas,Jhajjars and Bahadurgarhs in times to come [though i wish none should happen].Kindly don't take anything said herein to the heart as it is just a healthy discussion please.

Regards!

[pup030]

Respect worthy Dhiren bhai......I read your thread with interest that day and mind you, i was the first to react.I don't say that there was no merit in your utterances but the tone was loud and too condeming. We can not brand a COMMUNITY MADE OF OUR PARENTS AND RELATIVES AS BARBARIC AND USELESS IRRESPECTIVE OF KIND OF DEEDS IT PERFORMS.We should intervene and guide our people silently[if we have the capabilities] rather than shouting from the roof top that JAT COMMUNITY IS USELESS AND PRIMITIVE. what are we so called EDUCATED and 'BALIDANI' people doing in the surroundings to improve their lot? Or are we here to see 'TAMASHA' and call them names. Wisdom should dictare that it is dangerous to criticise our own blood even if the group is wrong at times because idealism does not exist on this planet.When Every cast or creed is busy playing dishonest games in
order to out do each other then How can we expect ALL CORRECT approach from our innocent people? Bhai Dhiren we are proud of you as an indvidual [you have done well for yourself and may be for the community too] and wish you best of luck and many more honours in times to come but my submission is that WHATEVER THESE JATS ARE....THEY ARE PART OF US AND WE OWE THEM MORE THAN OUR EACH DROP OF BLOOD.Let me ask you one question; How many BUDHEEJIVI jats went to Gohana and Chandigarh to put across the correct picture? Gohana was a sad chapter and if we remain busy in condeming our community than there will be many more Gohanas,Kharkhodas,Jhajjars and Bahadurgarhs in times to come [though i wish none should happen].Kindly don't take anything said herein to the heart as it is just a healthy discussion please.

Regards!

Dear Dev bhai,

You have aptly communicated your thoughts a second time around and some of the points have been internalised by me but at the same time another thought disturbs me and that is the possibility of mind getting closed and the ghettoisation as has happened with some of the communities.

Besides, it is said that from the saintly and idealist to the extremist is but one step and come to think of saintly and idealist in terms of fixation with supporting the community even when facts speak otherwise could lead to extreme positions for individuals as well as for the group concerned. Herd mentality and could also result from such an approach leading the community and individual nowhere. Besides, atrophy of the individual is the biggest danger from such a course.

Well, how could I take anything to heart,never, for its only once in a while that one finds an apt match in someone who makes my grey matter tick. I know i am not a know all and am wrong at times and I wish to learn and grow buddy.

Would love to hear your reflections in the context of the current post.

With warm regards

Dhiren Singh
Advocate