Serious Discussion

[scotlandjat]

Hi

Hope all is fine here on Jatland.com has been a while since i made a Thread.

Anyway to the point. I've been browsing jattworld.com for some time and one Thread caught which was Jatland.com

I must admit some of the members of jattworld.com made really good points and about Jatland.com being only exclusive for Jat/Hindus and also put across very Valid points in my opinion to why this website is only still for Jat/Hindus/.

Now i do not know if anyone knows this BUT i am a JATT/Punjabi/Sikh.

Anyway i would like to hear from the members of this site and see what they to say.

Regards

[hamendra]

Hi

Hope all is fine here on Jatland.com has been a while since i made a Thread.

Anyway to the point. I've been browsing jattworld.com for some time and one Thread caught which was Jatland.com

I must admit some of the members of jattworld.com made really good points and about Jatland.com being only exclusive for Jat/Hindus and also put across very Valid points in my opinion to why this website is only still for Jat/Hindus/.

Now i do not know if anyone knows this BUT i am a JATT/Punjabi/Sikh.

Anyway i would like to hear from the members of this site and see what they to say.

Regards

Mahlee Bhai,
As per my opinion, there is no such difference between JAT(Sikh) and Jat(Hindu). Still, we have the marriages. What was the sikh reigion and who was the originator of sikh dharm, Sri Gurunanak Jee, and his shishay Bala Sahib, both were the Jats. But still, I m not able to digest that what is this going on. Please don't create that kind of differences. Jat means Jat either Sikh or Hindu. That's the power of our community.

I request to VHP (Vishav Hindu Parishad), please don't create the confussion.

[captmanjeet]

dear mahlee
it is indeed a very good topic u have brought on this forum.i my self was seriously thinking about the same of late that this topic has to be addressed in great depth.As per my knowledge this site was originally designed for hindu jats and 80% of the active members are hindu jats only till date.I am sorry to say that i differ from Mr. hamender here that this site should be open to all jats wheather sikh or hindu.he is very right in digging up the history and drawing the right conclution that once upon a time when there was no sikhism there were only JATS.but times have changed.
This change has brought the jats sikhs more close to sikhism and farther from being jats.Jats sikh likes to be identified as sikh first and a jat later which is quite opposite with hindu jat.A hindu jat is first a jat and his religion comes later.that is one of the main reason that there has been no or little history of communal violence in haryana dispite so many muslims in mewat region of haryana.On the opposite hand thay are more sensitive towards there caste that is jat.He will create all sorts of ruckus when he is pitched with some other community, immaterial with respect to his religious faith.
And if this is the case that two jat brothers have splitted because of what so ever is the reason and both are follower of different relegious faiths there is no harm in considering them different.They have to lead there life differently.So no harm in advocating that this site is exclusive for the hindu jats.
i am of opinion that this site should be exclusive for the hindu jats only.if the majority of peaple on this site feels no we want all jats from other relegion too member of this site whome am i to stop that.but i certainly feel there should be some platform exclusive for HINDU JATS.I know some of u will come up with the logic that jats also have diffrent type such as deshwalis,dhe and bagri jats so why not have exclusive for them too.and some wise thinkers will even go down till the gotra levels.i am not in disagreement with that if someone can achieve the aim this site achieving with some other platform of particular gotra should take aleep forward.
Thanks for giving me oppurtunity to put acroos my view on the topic.
capt manjeet

[jagmohan]

Dear All,

Though it is the sole prerogative of the 'Karta Dharta' of this portal to open membership to ALL HUMANITY, my views are different. I have already posted my views earlier but since the topic has come up again, allow me to cut paste.

"And I am no visionary. I am a simple JAT. I was born in a village and was lucky to have studied in a Sainik School very far from home (In Karnataka State). I got luckier when I was commissioned in the Jammu and Kashmir Light Infantry. For your information all Jawans of this regiment are recruited only from the state of J&K only. The officers are from all over the country. I have been indeed grateful to God all this while and more so because I got an opportunity to pray in Mandir -Maszid-Gurudwara (popularly called MMG in the regiment) for 21 years. I know more about Islam than many Moslems.
However, all that is my personal experience which I share with others to bring about an acceptnace that there is one God or Power and differents ways to get there. But does everyone think so? Not my Muslim friends.

I am now working in Mumbai and live in a predominantly Muslim neighbourhood. There are two Masjids nearby. In fact I am woken up everuday by 'Azan' and I take it that I have also marked my presence to the Almighty. One day I went to the Masjid and asked the Maulvi whether I can attend Namaz? I did not tell him who I was, but since I have grown 'French Cut', he may have thought that I was a Muslim. He said why not. Then I told him I was a Hindu. He nearly fainted and polietly refused me. What I am trying to get to is a very simple point. Let us first make sure that we learn to communicate within our own community and then have grand plans of integrating the Sikhs and Muslims. I am a very broadminded person but when it comes to my core beliefs about my 'Kaum' ie JATS (And I don't consider myself to be a Hindu. I am an Arya Samaji and a JAT), I have very extreme views.

I wish the Muslims and Sikhs all the happiness in this world. Let them multiply as much as they wish. As an individual I am first concerned about my family, then my near and dear ones (many of them from different castes and creeds), then my Kaum and then the country. No Sir, I am a JAT first and then a Haryanvi and then an Indian. And when I was in the Army I was a soldier first and my religion was the religion of my Jawans. I know this might surprise a lot of people but then those are my beliefs. Today it has become fashionable to say 'I am an Indian' first and foremost, especially amongst those who have caused maximum damage to the very fabric of this country. These 'India Shining Wallas'. Let me first be a good son, husband, father brother and friend and then when time comes to give my life for the country, I would do so only when I see these 'Shinng Wallas first make sacrifices themselves (I am still on the reserve list). Let me first make a difference in the life of one JAT who is not related to me (though all JATS are supposed to be related), then I will think of integrating the Sikhs and Muslims. I know enough about them and don't want to learn more. My first priority is towards educating those poorest of the poor JATS who have been forgotten by their brethren who feel making chips in Bangalore is better than making cow dung cakes in villages.

Another point about Dr Sangwan's point that "Whoever marries a JAT, becomes a JAT". I don't think so. I don't have any relative abroad (have not tried to find out but there are many out there) and would like to know from those who have married white Americans or Europeans whether this is true. Have you made them JATNIS or they have made you, whatever? Mr Ravi, I am very clear. I think the aim of this site is as written by Budh Nashier Bahi and Sujata Ji. Let us first make a difference to our own community and then think of others. Yes, those of us who feel the pangs of separation, please go ahead and become a Muslim or Sikh. Why not? Aren't we all JATS. And those who want to get educated, please do so but spare simple JATS like me. (07 Mar 2004)"

My request to Mr Malhee: Please don't take it personally. Just like others, I too have a right to have my say.

Regards,

JS Malik

[devdahiya]

Charity Must Begin At Home And Should End At Home Too. This Site Should Be For Hindu Jats Without Any Doubt.

[captmanjeet]

Dear All,

Though it is the sole prerogative of the 'Karta Dharta' of this portal to open membership to ALL HUMANITY, my views are different. I have already posted my views earlier but since the topic has come up again, allow me to cut paste.

"And I am no visionary. I am a simple JAT. I was born in a village and was lucky to have studied in a Sainik School very far from home (In Karnataka State). I got luckier when I was commissioned in the Jammu and Kashmir Light Infantry. For your information all Jawans of this regiment are recruited only from the state of J&K only. The officers are from all over the country. I have been indeed grateful to God all this while and more so because I got an opportunity to pray in Mandir -Maszid-Gurudwara (popularly called MMG in the regiment) for 21 years. I know more about Islam than many Moslems.
However, all that is my personal experience which I share with others to bring about an acceptnace that there is one God or Power and differents ways to get there. But does everyone think so? Not my Muslim friends.

I am now working in Mumbai and live in a predominantly Muslim neighbourhood. There are two Masjids nearby. In fact I am woken up everuday by 'Azan' and I take it that I have also marked my presence to the Almighty. One day I went to the Masjid and asked the Maulvi whether I can attend Namaz? I did not tell him who I was, but since I have grown 'French Cut', he may have thought that I was a Muslim. He said why not. Then I told him I was a Hindu. He nearly fainted and polietly refused me. What I am trying to get to is a very simple point. Let us first make sure that we learn to communicate within our own community and then have grand plans of integrating the Sikhs and Muslims. I am a very broadminded person but when it comes to my core beliefs about my 'Kaum' ie JATS (And I don't consider myself to be a Hindu. I am an Arya Samaji and a JAT), I have very extreme views.

I wish the Muslims and Sikhs all the happiness in this world. Let them multiply as much as they wish. As an individual I am first concerned about my family, then my near and dear ones (many of them from different castes and creeds), then my Kaum and then the country. No Sir, I am a JAT first and then a Haryanvi and then an Indian. And when I was in the Army I was a soldier first and my religion was the religion of my Jawans. I know this might surprise a lot of people but then those are my beliefs. Today it has become fashionable to say 'I am an Indian' first and foremost, especially amongst those who have caused maximum damage to the very fabric of this country. These 'India Shining Wallas'. Let me first be a good son, husband, father brother and friend and then when time comes to give my life for the country, I would do so only when I see these 'Shinng Wallas first make sacrifices themselves (I am still on the reserve list). Let me first make a difference in the life of one JAT who is not related to me (though all JATS are supposed to be related), then I will think of integrating the Sikhs and Muslims. I know enough about them and don't want to learn more. My first priority is towards educating those poorest of the poor JATS who have been forgotten by their brethren who feel making chips in Bangalore is better than making cow dung cakes in villages.

Another point about Dr Sangwan's point that "Whoever marries a JAT, becomes a JAT". I don't think so. I don't have any relative abroad (have not tried to find out but there are many out there) and would like to know from those who have married white Americans or Europeans whether this is true. Have you made them JATNIS or they have made you, whatever? Mr Ravi, I am very clear. I think the aim of this site is as written by Budh Nashier Bahi and Sujata Ji. Let us first make a difference to our own community and then think of others. Yes, those of us who feel the pangs of separation, please go ahead and become a Muslim or Sikh. Why not? Aren't we all JATS. And those who want to get educated, please do so but spare simple JATS like me. (07 Mar 2004)"

My request to Mr Malhee: Please don't take it personally. Just like others, I too have a right to have my say.

Regards,

JS Malik
thanks malik sir
Once again u have like before put across the views in very impressive and genuine manner.Three cheers to u sir!!Being a brother officer i must confess how true u were in the confession about MMG we all lived with that till the time we wore the olive green and never even thought about the relegion of our own we condidered the relegion of our men as our own.
capt manjeet

[gaganjat]

.........................

[gaganjat]

:D Serious Discussion LOL:D :D :D

Bire, ke pharak painda nae.

Let the Sites go the way they are ,its just internet.

As long Jatts can come to Haryana and Jats can go to Punjab, its cool.

Mahlee, Haryana and Punjab share the same capital called 'Chandigarh' if you have a clue.
Did u ever hear that B22 'Chandigarh kare ashique' :rolleyes:

In chandigarh Jats and Jatts live together.

Why dont u put all the resources together to form a site on 'Chandigarh concept'. FUUUUUUUUUFFFFFFF

Serious? I wrote really seriously :D

Its alright maaaannnn let it go.

[scotlandjat]

Hi,

Some really intresting replys and some pathectic ones.

Please do bare in mind i am not trying to cause a Division on Jats i am simply asking WHY is it that Some members of this website and jattworld.com are creating Divisions.

If you want i will cut and paste a few replys by the members of jattworld.com and then we will see what the members of this website have to say.

LordJatt wrote:

Hi Everyone,
Nice Discussion.
As we study various population groups, we find that there are several misconceptions on JattSikhs by both Sikhs who are not Jatts and by Jatts who are not Sikhs. For removing these misconceptions, there is an utter need for a Dialogue - For an Expression of thoughts.

We usually initiate and have this dialogue with our Non-Jatt Sikh counterparts and to some extent it does create a positive understanding and since this thread deals with an attempt to initiate a dialogue with Hindu Jatts, I fully support it.

As pointed out by AJat, the Exclusiveness Policy of JatLand.com is certainly Talibanistic and it doesnt helps either side, either way except that it creates more misunderstanding. Yes Flavours of the site can be Religio-Culture based. Eg Jatt.com and JattWorld.com are both "Sikh Flavoured" Jatt Websites. JatLand.com should be "Hindu Flavoured" Jatt Website - thats a natural instinct and is understandable. But why have a Paranoic attitude towards Cultures and Religions different than you?

My conclusion is that:
(1) There should be a Dialogue
(2) Dialogue needs a Basic Understanding that we are Different in Certain ways and have Commonality in Certain Ways.
(3) That we must have a feeling of Accetability and Tolerance towards Differences that we have.

Thus Accept the Differences, Share the Common Bonds and thus give rise to Tolerance and Understanding for the Prosperous Future of our Race.

Rabb Rakha

[scotlandjat]

LordJatt wrote:


Hi AJat and Ravi,
Today I was reading the thread concerning Sikh Jatts on the forum we are discussing about. What I found is that allthough few intellectual ones like Ravi Chaudhary would surely like to initiate a Dialogue but majority ones would not. The reason for this I found is a sense of Insecurity about Jatt Sikhs. That once Jatt Sikhs are allowed, BANG... the Punjabi Culture Would come to Dominate the Forum, the Forum which otherwise has been designed for Haryanavi Culture. And interestingly, this Insecurity the majority ones carry, inspite of the fact knowing well that the Forum Administration and Moderation would still reside in their own hands.

With this thing in mind, I guess they initially stayed away from this Challenging Task. So they created the Policy - Dont Invite the Trouble Keep Punjabi Jatt at Bay .

But what they dont realize is that this Closed Egg Approach is not only Unnatural but unrealistic and a bit Paranoid.

What are they really scared of? Will we challenge their Ideologies? Will we ask too many questions? Will we Dominate the Forum with Punjabi Culture by Supressing Haryanavi Culture?

In conclusion the message that I wanna give to those who oppose the inclusion of Jatt Sikhs is is - Welcome to the 21st Century - The Age of Competition. Compete, Argue and Debate your Viewpoints. Dont try Supressing yourself cos by that you are falling backwards yourself. Chaudhary Chotu Ram was definitely a Great Man and I have tremendous respect for him. But Jatt Race is much more wider than that. But Dont close your door to Ranjha Jatt, Mirza Jatt, Heer Sial, Jeona Maur, Maharaja Ranjit Singh etc.

In short, stop being a Fanatic and Open Up. Cmon

AJat, how about giving a Open Up Call to Muslim Jatts of West Punjab? How do you think they would react?

Cheers

[raj2rif]

In my opinion I find no difference in Jats and Jatts. Sikhism is comparatively very new religion and most of the Sikhs were Hindus first. In fact when it was started, by Guru Nanak Ji, it wasn't even a religion per say. Most of the traditions in Hinduism and Sikhism are similar. Their eating habits are similar and so is their attitude.

I feel that whether you are a Jatt or a Jat, it really does not matter, so long you contribute meaningfully on the site.

[sumitdaheya]

I thik sikh jats have unwarranted sympathy with muslim jats. And I think muslim Jats have quite forgotten their ancestary and are mixed through intermarriage and other means with the invading muslims and imbibed the invaders culture and developed some sort of disdain bordering on hate towards hindu jats and hindus in general.

[navingulia]

Some really intellectual talk.
Respected Malik Sir, and Manjeet bhai, i was amazed by your clarity of thoughts. I agree.
My Points?
1. Jaatism is about genes. Jaat genes run in our blood. Our nature, behaviour, temprament...
2. Hindu Jaats/ Haryanvi Jaats find on this site a foum to interact with their language and culture, something they dont get at other places. They definitely wouldnt like this site to become a hybrid of language and culture.
3. Hindu Jaats are more linked to Jaatism than religion. According to Arya Samaj 'Hindu' is not a religion. 'Vedic' is the religion. At a time in indian history the rajpurohits had more importance than the king and some of these pandits created meaningless rituals and practices and named it 'hinduism'. Hindu was a word which was used to classify people who lived east of the river Sindhu (indus).
4. Jaats from Har/Raj/UP are different from Sikh Jatts in many ways. Language is one. Culture is very different. While Sikhism acts as a unifying force for a large group of people, it also alienates them from others. I really admire the unity of sikhs and everyone knows that sikhs do a lot for their community. A jatt sikh given a chance will help a sikh rather than helping a Haryanvi Jaat.
5. This site is a place where Jaats interact with their language and culture and it should continue doing that.
6. Yes, Sikh Jaats, Hindu Jaats and maybe even Muslim Jaats can have another common website where they can share their views and find and talk about their common ancestory/ genealogy.
7. Yes, if anyone wants to visit Jatland, he is most welcome irrespective of whether he is a hindu, sikh, muslim, christian, Jew......
Mahlee sir, we can have a unified forum also (i would love to join that too) but why disturb this forum. Let this forum take its purpose forward. Compared to Sikhs, hindu Jaats have very few forums working for the community. This should remain one.
Regards to all

[ritusang]

Some of the replies are really pathetic. Man is social animal.

Never expected that all these people in this forum give so much bhashan every day and think so cheap that Sikh Jats are diff.
Well it is true that there are lot of sikh jats also think like this.
My wife once just told my best friend’s wife other day that tomorrow is diwali, her spontaneous reply was that haan, wo to aap hindu log manate ho naa.
Lekin, we should not be carried away by that.

I am a Jat from Nagaur, Rajasthan. When I first moved to Delhi and met a Jat family in Palam, A boozurg man told me that you are not real jaat. I was amazed at his words.
After that this was common thing and baad me maine inke mooh lagana hee chod diya.

So ye log agar apni community ko hee respect nehi de sakte to Sikh ko kya denge. Sanki log.

Ek baat bataoon.
Doori jitni badhao ge ootani hee badhagii.

And some people give bhashan everyday about doing things about country and do this and that……
You can do it only when you are together.
Respect ootani hee milti hai jitni aap dete ho.

One message to Mr. Harjivan Singh Mahlee as well that this is not a forum to argue (I believe. Real jats should confirm it). He has written that “Compete, Argue and Debate your Viewpoints”. We loose friends if we argue. Debate and discussion are better words. Because in argument we tend make one thing better than other.

Lot of people in this forum have sad that Jat is on the top of religion and if it is that then all should be welcome as long he understand what does JAT means.

[scsheorayan]

Dear All,

Thank you very much for frank opinion on this subject. It has been discussed earlier and a few words here will clarify the situation.:)

Having friends among Jats and Jatts I can sincerely say that the difference of one extra T can be difficult for some to accomodate.

How many Jats would like to join Jatt website or go uninvited there and post their opinions. Mr. Mahli, with due respect I must say that there is some thing on Jatland which Jatts find attractive. What is attarctive on Jatland is that it gives us sense of belonging and coming home at the end of the day.
But if Jatts were in then it will not be the same.

I believe the purpose of this website is I to provide a common meeting place rather than try to change the World. Which may not be possible if we had Jatts as members as well.

On the lighter side I will not be wrong in saying that writing Sardar jokes will be a NO NO. :)

[captmanjeet]

Some of the replies are really pathetic. Man is social animal.

Never expected that all these people in this forum give so much bhashan every day and think so cheap that Sikh Jats are diff.
Well it is true that there are lot of sikh jats also think like this.
My wife once just told my best friend’s wife other day that tomorrow is diwali, her spontaneous reply was that haan, wo to aap hindu log manate ho naa.
Lekin, we should not be carried away by that.

I am a Jat from Nagaur, Rajasthan. When I first moved to Delhi and met a Jat family in Palam, A boozurg man told me that you are not real jaat. I was amazed at his words.
After that this was common thing and baad me maine inke mooh lagana hee chod diya.

So ye log agar apni community ko hee respect nehi de sakte to Sikh ko kya denge. Sanki log.

Ek baat bataoon.
Doori jitni badhao ge ootani hee badhagii.

And some people give bhashan everyday about doing things about country and do this and that……
You can do it only when you are together.
Respect ootani hee milti hai jitni aap dete ho.

One message to Mr. Harjivan Singh Mahlee as well that this is not a forum to argue (I believe. Real jats should confirm it). He has written that “Compete, Argue and Debate your Viewpoints”. We loose friends if we argue. Debate and discussion are better words. Because in argument we tend make one thing better than other.

Lot of people in this forum have sad that Jat is on the top of religion and if it is that then all should be welcome as long he understand what does JAT means.
Hi Ritu (Mr/Miss/Mrs?????)
First thing I saw on Jat land today morning when I logged in was your reply in this thread and the expression that floated across my mind was the title of my reply. I am aware that u are hardly 24 hours old in this fraternity and really don’t know what this whole discussion is all about. This was really stopping me to reply to your post on the thread, but I could not control my self in doing so. By using as strong words as pathetic regarding the views of other members shows yours lackadaisical attitude towards the place u have just joined.
My dear friends when u joins a new place u are expected to learn the ethics, manners and the decorum of the place. See the place, the people around, and then put across your views and that too supposed to be in gentle way.
Now coming on to your actual points which u have put in favour of letting Jatland open for all. My dear Ritu we are not disrespectful to Sikhs in saying that they should not be allowed to join this site we only meant that let this platform be only for the Jats (Hindu).
This is perfect meeting place for so many people in our community who otherwise don’t get chance to interact with each other. Being an army officer, and that two from Sikh paltan I think I know much more then u do regarding the differences between Sikh and JattSikhs. You yourself have said here that even majority of jatt Sikh’s think in the same manner so if they do think that way where is the need to change their thinking.

Then u also said that “respect utni hi milti hai jitne app dete ho” How true your words are so if these other jatts whether Sikh or Muslims don’t consider us as part of there community what is need of harping to make them join us. My friend I agree united we stand divided we fall but we cannot stand united if we have people who have different priorities and different aim in respect of jat culture

I am here to meet Hindu jats and help those jats who might need my help. If I could help one Jat in the process my aim to be on this site is achieved.
Last but not the least I would also like to know what is your perception of REAL jats, because as per me if some is either Jat or he is not.

Capt manjeet

[radhikachhillar]

very well said captain. Paidda huye pehle hi Ramayan ke pervachan kar gire.

[nainsandeep]

Respected All
I agree with Hamendra, when he says Jatt and Jat are same race and should be allowed to join each other.

and found the following line on Jattworld.com which make sense...

"Thus Accept the Differences, Share the Common Bonds and thus give rise to Tolerance and Understanding for the Prosperous Future of our Race."

Undoubtedly, this site was started with an aim of providing a common platform to the whole jat community, So we should welcome Jatt Sikhs and allow them to share their feelings about OUR RACE.

Shubha Ji (The Moderator), Everyone here has some sikh friends who crach jokes about themselves(sardars). So, you dont have to say NO NO to sardar jokes as none of our jokes are offensive.

Regards

[abhirana]

hi all

i dont agree with some of the points
if you say that for a jat his religion is secondary
so why are we making a mountain of this issue...
whether its a JAT or JATT...i welcomes all
and i dont think there's much difference b/w the 2
except the letter "T" .:)

regards

~Abhishek Rana