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Thread: Lt Gen Sinha's Speech:The Politics in Kashmir

  1. #1

    Lt Gen Sinha's Speech:The Politics in Kashmir

    Dear Members,

    I was forwarded this speech by one of our military friend. I think it is a good speech, and will give you all some vital information on issue: Kashmir. Post your views on the subject and not individuals.

    Since the subject matter is too long, may be I will have to post it in more tha one post. Gen Sinha's observations and his work is interesting.

    Have a nice reading.


    THE FIRST FIELD MARSHAL MANEKSHAW MEMORIAL LECTURE
    (Delivered by Lt Gen S K Sinha at the Defence Services Veterans Conclave, New Delhi in August 2008)

    Field Marshal Sam Manekshaw is our national icon whom we failed to give an appropriate farewell when he passed away recently. I am glad that the Conclave of Defence Services Veterans have started Field Marshal Manekshaw Memorial lecture series. I feel greatly honoured to be invited to deliver the first lecture. I was privileged to serve under the Field Marshal in various capacities for several decades. I recall that in September 1946 when
    the Interim Government had come to power in Delhi and India’s Independence was fast approaching, three Indian officers were posted in three different sections of the Military Operations Directorate of the then General Headquarters (India), which later became our Army Headquarters. Till then this Directorate was manned exclusively by British officers
    and British clerks. These three Indians were Lt Col Manekshaw, Major Yahya Khan and myself in the rank of Captain. Later I served under him as instructor first at Mhow and then at Wellington, when he was the Commandant of these training institutions. Thereafter I served as a Brigade Commander when he was the Army Commander and as a Deputy PSO when he was the Army Chief.

    The war clouds had gathered in 1971 and I was due to command a Division. He held me back as Deputy PSO on his staff. I told him that the G-1
    was going to war with the G-2 and the G-3 should not be left out of battle. He turned down my request saying that he needed me more on his staff. I last met him in 2007 when he was terminally ill on life support system in Wellington Military Hospital. A little earlier at the intervention of the then President, he had received over one crore as arrears of pay of a
    Field Marshal for the past 35 years. At last the bureaucracy had relented and given him his due which had been denied to him. We had taken up the case in 1972 when he was promoted Field Marshal. I congratulated him for this. He smiled and told me,”A Babu came from Delhi to give me the cheque which I have sent to my bank, but I am not sure if the cheque will be honoured.”

    I have been asked to talk about Jammu and Kashmir which is today, the most burning topic affecting our national security. After Independence, Sam, as Manekshaw was affectionately called, became a Brigadier and took over as Director Military Operations. I was posted as GSO-2 (Operations) in a newly raised skeleton Command Headquarters, which later became Western Command. When I was leaving the Directorate, Sam told me that I had been dealing with internal security for a year and now I was going to a Command
    Headquarters which was being raised primarily for internal security in Delhi and Punjab. The Headquarters would be in a railway train operating between Delhi and Lahore. Mountbatten had made the Viceroy’s special corridor train available for this purpose. Little could Sam or I foresee that in a few weeks our Command under the leadership of Lt Gen Sir Dudley Russell, will be fighting a war in Kashmir. For the first few weeks I was the only
    Indian officer in the Headquarters, the others being all British. The British Government directed that no British officer then serving with the Indian or the Pakistan Army will be allowed to go to Kashmir. That placed a heavy responsibility on me as I was the only officer from the controlling Headquarters who could visit Kashmir for the first few weeks.

    Our Headquarters got Indianised by January 1948 when Lt Gen (later Field Marshal) succeeded Lt Gen Sir Dudley Russell. In October 1947 , Russell had asked me to act as his eyes and years in Kashmir, functioning like Montgomery’s Liaison Officers at El Alamein and after in the Desert during the Second World War. Russell had been a Divisional Commander at El Akamein. I was also given the task of organizing the airlift of some 800
    Dakota sorties in civilian aircraft from Safdarjang airport to Srinagar in 15 days. In all this I was closely interacting with Sam, who was the DMO at Army Headquarters. After the first Indo.Pak War in Kashmir, the United Nations held a cease fire conference at Karachi. The Indian delegation was led by General Shrinagesh with the Defence Secretary, Kashmir
    Affairs Secretary, Maj Gen Thimayya and Brigadier Manekshaw as members. I was the Secretary of the delegation.

    Given our long common association with Kashmir, it is only appropriate that the first Field Marshal Manekshaw Memorial Lecture should be about National Security: The J&K Perspective.

    Kashmir has been a major lingering problem for our national security for the past over sixty years. We have fought four wars with Pakistan over Kashmir and emerged winners in each one of them. The violence of the ongoing proxy war has been very substantially contained. When I took over as Governor of the State in 2003, the average rate of daily killing due to terrorist violence was 10. By2008 this came down to a little over one a day.
    However, in terms of propaganda and media war, we have been at the losing end. This has been largely due to the appeasement policy of our vote bank politicians towards communal and anti-national elements.

    The origin and genesis of the Kashmir problem lies in the Partition of the Sub-Continent on the basis of religion. Pakistan’s stand has been that Kashmir being a Muslim majority State should have been part of that country which had been created as a homeland for Muslims on the Sub-Continent. India which has more Muslims than the total population of Pakistan has been opposed to the concept of religion being the basis for nationhood. No doubt in 1947, the partition of what was then British India, the eleven provinces directly ruled by the British, was carried out on the basis of religion. This did not apply to the 562 States ruled by the Princes. Their rulers had entered into treaty with the British Sovereign and accepted
    the latter’s paramouncy. Jinnah wanted that on the withdrawal of the British power from the Sub-Continent and the lapse of paramouncy, the rulers should be allowed to decide the future of their kimgdoms. His hidden agenda was that Hyderabad which was the richest and largest State in India, of the size of France, and which had a Muslim ruler with over 90% Hindus subjects, should opt for Pakistan. He even tried to get the Maharajas of
    Jodhpur and Jaisalmer to accede to Pakistan, promising them the world. As for Kashmir, which had 70% Muslim population with a Hindu ruler, he was confident that both geography and demography were favourable for Pakistan and the State would fall like a ripe plum in his lap. In the event, he got neither Hyderabad nor Kashmir. It suited the British to go along with Jinnah’s thinking in this matter.
    .........................To be contd........................................
    Last edited by raj2rif; August 30th, 2008 at 07:22 PM. Reason: text size became too small, but could not fix it.
    Col (Retd) Virendra Tavathia


    "A person should not be judged by the nature of his/her job, but the manner in which he/she does that".

  2. #2

    ....Lt Gen Sinha's Speect..... Contd.....

    ......Contd.....

    The Independence Act passed by the British Parliament had a specific provision for the Ruling Princes along these lines. Thus, when the Maharaja signed the Instrument of Accession, legally the State of Jammu and Kashmir became an integral part of India. The ratification of this accession by Sheikh Abdulla, the most popular leader of Kashmir with the largest popular base, provided all the moral justification for accession. India’s legal claim to Kashmir was recognized by the UN when its resolution accepted by Pakistan, required that all Pakistan forces should withdraw from Kashmir while Indian forces were to remain till the holding of plebiscite. This was further confirmed by the UN when the 200 square mile Tilel Valley which had been No Man’s land, was made inclusive to India during the delineation of the Cease Fire Line.

    For the fear of losing if the plebiscite was held while Sheikh Abdulla was in power, Pakistan failed to honour her commitment of withdrawing her forces. Yet Pakistan and the separatists in Kashmir launched full steam propaganda that plebiscite could not be held because of India’s intransigence. Moreover, the memory of Pakistan Forces pillage, plunder and rapine of Baramulla was fresh in the minds of the people and this would have adversely affected Pakistan’s prospects in a plebiscite held at that time Incidentally, if Pakistan had not been in too much of a hurry and had invaded Kashmir ten days later, she would have secured Kashmir without any difficulty. With the approach of winter, the fair weather airfield at Srinagar would have become unusable and the 9,000 feet high Banihal Pass blocked with snow. There was no tunnel at Banihal in those days. The Indian Army would not have
    been able to intervene in Kashmir till six months in the next summer.

    As for the 1965 War, Pakistan’s offensive failed as admitted by General Mohammad Moosa, the then Pakistan Army Chief in his book, My Version, because of lack of support from the people of Kashmir. After the 1971 War, Pakistan realized that she could not wrest Pakistan through conventional military means. General Zia-ul Haq, the Mulla in Khaki, with plenty of petro
    dollars and US bounty for Jehad against Soviet Russia in Afghanistan, formulated a plan callrd Operation Topaz. This has been a low intensity conflict with a vicious mix of insurgency, terrorism and proxy war. His strategy of thousand cuts was aimed at bleeding India to death in Kashmir. As a result we have had to tackle militancy in Kashmir since 1989. I have recounted the past to enable the Kashmir problem to be viewed in its correct
    perspective.

    I had a long background of service in Kashmir for many years at different levels during my army career, when I took over as Governor of the State in June 2003. I found that we had done little long term planning for resolving the Kashmir issue. We dealt with the problem from day to day with knee jerk reaction to situations as they arose. A few weeks earlier, Vajpayee in a dramatic move had held out a hand of friendship to Pakistan which ushered
    the commencement of the peace process. By the end of the year, a cease fire was agreed upon on the LOC which has been holding for five years with a few recent exceptions.

    The normal three point strategy of unified command, economic development and psychological initiatives was being pursued. Besides organising free health camps, renovating school buildings, providing sports grounds, constructing roads and so on, as part of psychological initiatives, I tried to work on measures to bring about a mind change among the people. My efforts in this regard had yielded good results in Assam when I was Governor there for six years before taking up my assignment in Jammu and Kashmir. Hitherto the thinking in Delhi had been Valley centric with not much concern for Jammu and Ladakh. I felt that the three demographic groups had to be addressed differently. Hindus, Sikhs and Buddhists who constituted 35% of the State population felt neglected. I made special efforts to look after the sentiment of the Dogras who form the bulk of the population in this group. Zorawar Singh is their icon and I did my best to honour his memory. Large equestarian statue of Zorawar Singh was put up at Jammu and Reasi. A Zorawar Singh air-conditioned Auditorium with a seating capacity for 2000 was put up in Jammu University akong with a
    few seminar rooms and art galleries. portraying the culture of the three regions of the State. It is perhaps the finest University auditoriums in the country. As Chairman of Mata Vaishno Devi Shrine Board, I concentrated on religious tourism and providing improved infrastructure. The annual pilgrimage to the shrine picked up during my tenure from about
    50 lakhs to nearly 80 lakhs. This was a great boon to the economy of Jammu region. We put up a Mata Vaishno Devi University with an outlay of 200 crores without any assistance whatsoever from the Government.
    The University was inaugurated in 2004 by the then President Dr Abdul Kalam . In May 2008 we held its first Convocation addressed by the Prime Minister. Two batches passing out from the University, of mostly Jammu students, got hundred per cent placement in the corporate sector. We also worked o a state of the art cancer hospital of 250 beds for 100 crores, without any assistance from the Government. The completion of this project has got a little delayed due to recent disturbances’ All this was much hailed by the Dogras. They made me the Chief Patron for life of the Dogra Sabha and instituted a new award called Dogra Ratan for me. As for Gujars and Bakherwals, I got the Army to install 1000 micro-hydel projects based on water mills , producing 5 kilowatt of electricity, Villagers who had never seen an electric bulb now had 30 light points in their village. By day, power
    was used for grinding corn and operating loom. On completion of this scheme, I visited the last project completed in a mountain village near Uri. I travelled 20 kilometers by road from the helipad to the project site. All villages en route had the Indian national flag fluttering and the villagers had lined up the route with paper national flags. I also had special arrangements for education of the children of these nomadic tribes. Army put up over 50
    Goodwill schools besides two Army Public Schools. Hostels for Gujar children were put up by the Army and the civil administration. One of my last public engagements towards the end of my tenure was inaugurating a modern hostel for Gujar boys hostel at Reasi. The senior and much respected Gujarleader Mian Bashir was awarded the coveted Padma Bhushan. All this endeared me to the Gujars who began to look upon me as a father figure.
    I also made extensive efforts to bring about a mind change among Kashmiri Muslims who constitute 45% of the population of the State. Contrary to their past heritage, religious fundamentalism had seeped among them to a very large extent. This has been the main cause for militancy in Kashmir. Separatists are almost entirely from this community. I remember that in October 1947 when the Indian Army had gone to rescue the people of
    Kashmir from a brutal invasion launched by Pakistan, and Srinagar was under great threat from Pakistani raiders who had pillaged and plundered Baramulla.

    .......to be contd.......
    Col (Retd) Virendra Tavathia


    "A person should not be judged by the nature of his/her job, but the manner in which he/she does that".

  3. #3

    ..Lt Gen Sinha's Speech.. Contd.....

    ......contd...........

    I was sent to Srinagar city to assess the situation and the need for employing the army to maintain order in the city. That was at a time when the whole subcontinent was reeling under unprecedented communal violence. Millions perished and millions were uprooted during the Partition
    holocaust. The Maharaja and senior officers had fled to Jammu. I was most pleasantly surprised to find that there was no communal violence, nor communal tension in the city. The people were raising the slogan of “Hamlewar, Khabardar. Hum Kashmiri Hindu Muslim Sikh Tayar.”
    No wonder an anguished Mahatma wrote that he saw a ray of hope only in Kashmir. That was the Kashmiriyat in action that I had seen in those critical days. One of my opening remarks on taking over as Governor of the State was that while I agreed with Jahangir’s description of Kahmir as Paradise on Earth for its scenic beauty, iwhat was more important to me was that Kashmiriyat was the message of Paradise. I took various measures to
    promote Kashmiriyat because I felt that this would be a potent weapon for fighting religious fundamentalism which lay at the root of militancy in the State. This was not to the liking of the fundamentalists. They said that they did not have to learn Kashmiriyat from a non-Kashmiri. They also tried to ridicule my concept of Kashmiriyat. Undeterred I continued with my efforts and I got identified as an ardent advocate of Kashmiriyat. As Chairman of Amarnath Shrine Board, I used to inaugurate the Yatra by offering prayers at the Holy Cave and the same day fly to Charar-e-Sharif to place a chadar
    at the grave of Sheikh Noorudin, the patron Saint of Kashmir, greatly revered by Hindus, as Nund Rushi. I also started a three days Sufi music festival to mark the inauguration of Amarnath Yatra. In 2004 for the first time we had Pakistani musicians performing at this festival in Kashmir. This became an annual feature during my tenure as Governor. For the
    sixth Amarnath Yatra that I inaugurated on June 18 this year, we had Sufi musicians from Pakistan, Egypt, Syria and Uzbekistan, besides our own top musicians. I also got the Army to help in renovating Ziarts, when requested to do so by the local people and the local cleric. In 2007 I inaugurated a Ziarat at Badhgam, which had been renovated at much cost
    on my directions on the request of its imam. A largely attended public meeting was held when the local people expressed their gratitude to the Army and thanked me for what I had got done. The fundamentalists were upset at the growing popularity of the Army among the people on this account. They issued a fatwa against the Army saying that non-Muslims
    should not have anything to do with Muslim shrines. We said that the Army had no religion. It had people from all religions including Islam serving in it. The money used for renovation was not that of any religious community, but that of Government of India. If Haj subsidy was acceptable, how can there be any objection to the Army renovating Ziarats. However, we
    did not want to get involved in a religious controversy, and stopped doing any work at Ziarats. On 2 October 2007, Chief Minister Ghulam Nabi Azad organized an essay competition for school children on Mahatma Gandhi’s philosophy. The fundamentalists called for a boycott of this competition, but ignoring their call, 50,000 students participated. They issued a fatwa against the Chief Minister. All this only showed the mindset of the fundamentalists.
    I established a Centre for Kashmir Studies in Kashmir University for research and study of Kashmiri philosophy, history, literature, art and so on. We held a highly successful international seminar on Kashmiriyat in which scholars from Pakistan and Central Asian Republics participated. We decided to expand the field of activity of this Centre in cooperation
    with the South Asia Foundation put up under the patronage of UNESCO. The Centre was now registered as an autonomous body in the University and designated as Institute of Kashmir Studies. The President of India inaugurated this Institute before a very large gathering on 25 May this year. Messages of goodwill were read from various dignitaries including Secretary General UNESCO. High powered delegations from all the eight South Asian countries attended this inauguration. Sri Lanka was represented by
    Chandrika Kumartunga Bandarnaike, Afghanistan by a senior Minister Dr. Ghaaznafar as Karzai dropped out at the last minute. Pakistan was represented by Begum Hashmi, the daughter of the legendary Urdu poet Faiz Mohammed Faiz. She is a leading figure in Pakistan civil society and politics. Similarly there were delegates from Nepal, Bhutan, Bangladesh and Maldives. Never before had such a mega international event been held in
    Srinagar. The separatists and the Valley Press were critical of this function. The following day we had the world famous Janoon Sufi Pop music band perform in Srinagar. The United Jihad Council had asked Pakistan Government not to send this band to Kashmir, but their request had been ignored. The terrorists held out death threats and we arranged special
    security. The fundamentalists called for a boycott of the band function. Yet some ten thousand people assembled near Dal Lake and were enthralled by the music. The leader of the band from Pakistan in his opening remarks stated that he had come to Srinagar to launch a musical Jihad for peace. The leading English Daily of Pakistan, Dawn, in its editorial on 28 May under the heading “Breaking Barriers” wrote that music knew no boundaries. The
    Kashmiri people expressed their anger against religious militants and their violence. Of course the Valley Press criticized the band function and our national media ignored it. However, the separatists and fundamentalists were too rattled and this time instead of issuing Fatwa chose an innocuous issue to arouse communal passions. The last week of May 2008, with my five year tenure as Governor finishing on 4th June, was the high water mark of my efforts to promote Kashmiriyat.

    ..... Contd......
    Col (Retd) Virendra Tavathia


    "A person should not be judged by the nature of his/her job, but the manner in which he/she does that".

  4. #4

    ...Lt Gen Sinha's speech... Contd....

    .. Contd.....

    Ironically, it was also the start of a communal movement to hijack my efforts to promote a moderate and liberal outlook as against a fanatic and intolerant outlook which has been the root cause of militancy in Kashmir. The fundamentalists and the separatists got together to communalize the atmosphere in the Valley. They chose the Government order regarding diversion of the hundred acre plot of land at Baltal to the Amarnath Shrine Board for doing so. The Shrine Board had asked for this land for putting up temporary prefabricated accommodation for Amarnath pilgrims in 2005. It took the government three years to take a decision on this request. The two ministers who processed this case and recommended it to the Cabinet were from PDP. They were present at the Cabinet meeting when a unanimous decision was taken on this issue. Yet when they found communal passions getting aroused on the land issue, they jumped on to the bandwagon of the agitation. A canard was spread that the Shrine Board was going to settle Hindus on this land and build Hindu townships in the Valley with a view to changing its demography, like Israel had done in Palestine. The clarifications and contradictions issued by the Shrine Board were blacked out or distorted by the Valley press. The national media initially ignored the agitation that was building up. It’s a pity that no political party took a stand against this agitation and explained how the people were being misled. The land was to be diverted to the Board solely for construction of prefabricated accommodation for the pilgrims and no other purpose. The ownership rights over the land remained with the State Government. Baltal remains covered with snow for seven to eight months in the year, when it is unapproachable and uninhabitable. How could anyone in his senses accept that a Hindu township could be developed in this plot of land. Further, the State Government would never allow this to happen when they had denied citizenship rights to 30,000 Hindu and Sikh refuges that came from West Pakistan to Jammu in 1947. Their number has now swollen to over one lakh. They are denied voting rights, employment in State Government, ownership of immovable property and their children are not allowed admission to technical institutions of learning. Nevertheless, the agitation against diversion of land to the Shrine Board continued unabated gaining momentum everyday. On 24 June the agitators had become violent and the police had to open fire, killing one of them. The following morning I was departing from Kashmir having relinquished my appointment. At my farewell at Srinagar Airport, Chief Minister Ghulam Nabi Azad assured me that he would be holding a Press conference to clarify matters and he was confident that the agitation would die down. He held his Press conference that day, after I had left Srinagar, but it had no impact. Conditions in the Valley continued to worsen and a week later under a new Governor, the Government order regarding the land at Baltal was revoked. Another week later the Azad Government fell because its coalition partner, the PDP, led by Mufti Mohammed Sayeed had withdrawn support. Our national media displayed ignorance of facts and our secular brigade among them was only too willing to be misled and misled the people. They started chanting that I
    was communal and I was responsible for the crisis. They even started saying that I had ordered the transfer of the land at Baltal to the Shrine Board.
    The State Government had been allotting thousands of acres of land to various agencies for different purposes, to PWD for constructing roads, to Reliance for constructing communication towers, to electricity departments for transmission lines, to power corporations for hydel projects, to education department for university campuses and so on. Even on the day the Cabinet approved of diversion of land in Baltal to the Shrine Board, five other transfers of land to different agencies had been approved. Despite this, the
    communal and anti-national elements like the PDP, picked on diversion of land to the Shrine Board for launching a widespread communal agitation. The Congress, with a new Governor, went on an overdrive with its appeasement policy by not only revoking the land diversion order, but virtually dismantling the Amarnath Shrine Board, taking away its
    functions and trying to hand it over to the Tourist Department. All the members of the board were asked to resign and the Chief Executive Officer of the Board removed. Perhaps, in their thinking, the Board in making a request for the land in 2005, had committed a crime. The excellent work done by the Board in the management of the Yatra and promoting
    facilities for pilgrims had resulted in the number of pilgrims going to the Cave by over five times. It reached an all-time high of nearly six lakhs this year. Such ill-advised appeasement, ignoring High Court judgments and legal provisions, caused great consternation amongst the people of Jammu. The jubilant separatists and fundamentalists in the Valley also started calling for the reorganization of the Shri Mata Vaishno Devi Shrine Board. This resulted in a spontaneous outburst of pent up feelings of the people of Jammu against the discrimination they had been suffering for years. The
    ongoing agitation in Jammu for the past forty days is a record. There had been much violence and a large number of deaths in the wake of a totally unnecessary agitation started by communalists in Kashmir Valley. It is pertinent that whereas the agitation in Kashmir has been communal, the movement in Jammu has been non-communal with many Muslims like All Jammu Muslim Conference and several Gujjars supporting it. 150 Muslims after offering prayers at Jumma Masjid at Delhi were flagged off under the
    leadership of Tanveer Ahmed, former President of the Haj Committee to go to Kashmir and demand return of the Baltal land to the Shrine Board. They were prevented at Pathankot from entering Jammu and Kashmir.
    There has been no economic blockade of Kashmir as such, but movement of vehicles from Pathankot to Kashmir had got disrupted due to the disturbances in Jammu. By 4 August, the Army had ensured that hundreds of vehicles carrying supplies were moving into and out of the Valley. Yet anti-national and communal forces launched a march to Muzaffrabad across the LOC on 7 August resulting in security forces preventing them from doing this. The latter had to open fire against violent mobs resulting in several deaths. The situation has been on the boil in Jammu and Kashmir for over a month now with the Army forced to take action against violent agitating mobs in both regions. In Jammu, the agitators have been carrying the National Flag and shouting slogans in support of the Army. Whereas, in
    Srinagar, they have been carrying Pakistani flags and have been denouncing the Army. Even in this daunting and difficult situation, the Army has kept its cool and has been carrying out its duties in an impartial manner, both in Jammu region and in the Valley. The present conflict in Jammu and Kashmir is not between Hindus and Muslims as such, but between nationalists and separatist forces. Our national interests demand that the situation should be brought under control and the problem resolved as quickly as possible.
    Failure to do so will greatly damage our national Interests and will be a grave threat to our National Security. The policy of appeasement must be eschewed at all costs. The national media must present facts correctly and not attempt to be over-zealous in displaying its secular credentials. Justice must not only be done to all, but must also be seen to be done.

    Dear Members, the purpose of posting this speech is not to fill the site with yet another "cut paste stuff". I think, Gen Sinha's has given a very good account of the Kashmir problem in this speech and I feel it might just be helpful to our readers to understand his perspective of Kashmir.

    I hope it would be helpful.
    Col (Retd) Virendra Tavathia


    "A person should not be judged by the nature of his/her job, but the manner in which he/she does that".

  5. #5
    the facts presented in his speech by General Sinha once again highlight the fact that petty politics will always take precedence over national interests....until and unless people stop looking through the narrow aperture of their self interests...the nation would always suffer...

  6. #6
    I initially ignored the recent situation in Kashmir as just another riot. But as things got worse I tried to look it up on the internet to get the facts about who was right and who was wrong. Unfortunately I national media as Gen. Sinha says has been overzealously playing its secular credentials. And, in the process has totally filtered out the facts that people need to know.

    Gen. Sinha's speech make everything clear. I wish more people read it and its circulated widely so that people can know the truth and decide for themselves.

  7. #7
    Well this is correct from the day one. Infact some people have critized on this forums in the past as freedome of speech.

    I disagree with those who are doing a whole in their own plate (e.g. Yasin Malik or raising Green flag in Kashmir etc.).

    Everybody should read this thread and moderator also should keep it open for while as this is the most important issue today.

    Media was ok but since it has major stake from this multinationals, centiments of non-muslim and non-christian were never presented to public correctely.

    Very great example is Gujraat roit. After taking huge amout of money from gulf contries, media showed a soft corner for muslim, which was totally wrong. I live 3 hours away from Ahmedabad.

    Only hindi news paper are ok to some extent but coverage is limited.

    Please support this thread and make everybody aware of it. I have sincere request to ladies specially that please read and support it. Please do not say that media is free to show. They are not only showing incomplete but wrong also.

    Congress will never take action against this unless it convertes into another protest like Amarnath. Specially these three people, Sonia, Pranav, and Arjun Singh. We have to raise our voice. Theer were some protest in Toronto and Ottawa also this time. A canadian newspaper said that we have seen first time a protest (pro-india) from Hindus and generally there peacefull people. We are planning a major protest in Toronto from Arya Samaj, Gore Mandir etc about Kashmir. A most frustrating part is that Pakis had a plan to before Indian HighCOmmision to show their protest, which was refused. We will not let that hapen.

    taking action is totally different thing. Atleast awareness should there.
    Our Jats are the major one on the front to suffer.

    Regards

  8. #8
    Colonel Saheb

    Very good speech by General Sinha with detailed account of kashmir problem.
    Every time situation moves towards normalcy in Kashmir and when more determined efforts are needed, not surprising, Congress policy of appeasement gives a new life to the separatist movement. Worst is , congress relying on spineless people like Azad who has no mass base in the state and earlier on unforgettable Mufti who bargained his daughter Rubaiya for national security and now with another daughter Mahbooba

    http://www.bloggernews.net/115168

    When I was young , on the one hand would think of plebiscite as unjust interference of UN in the internal matters of India and other hand used to think it just as a right to choose by the Kashmiri People. First time i have come to know that even the Pakistanis delayed, fearing to loose any moral ground whatsoever to demand kashmir.

    Although General has chosen to concentrate on his efforts to improve the situation under the current provisions of the constitution and didn't touch on article 371 but i am of the view that whenever parliament has the required majority to support should do away with this article.


    Cheers!
    Last edited by spdeshwal; September 1st, 2008 at 04:57 AM.

  9. #9
    thanks for shairing this speech !
    “Lead me, follow me or get out of my way”

  10. #10

    Champions of "Sick-ularism" ...another perspective !!!

    Quote Originally Posted by raj2rif View Post
    The Maharaja and senior officers had fled to Jammu. I was most pleasantly surprised to find that there was no communal violence, nor communal tension in the city. The people were raising the slogan of “Hamlewar, Khabardar. Hum Kashmiri Hindu Muslim Sikh Tayar.” No wonder an anguished Mahatma wrote that he saw a ray of hope only in Kashmir. That was the Kashmiriyat in action that I had seen in those critical days. One of my opening remarks on taking over as Governor of the State was that while I agreed with Jahangir’s description of Kahmir as Paradise on Earth for its scenic beauty, iwhat was more important to me was that Kashmiriyat was the message of Paradise. I took various measures to promote Kashmiriyat because I felt that this would be a potent weapon for fighting religious fundamentalism which lay at the root of militancy in the State.
    ... the contents of this post are mail feeds frm my kashmiri friends (all pandits)... the 1st hand info. frm those who have gone thru this ordeal... chk out, wat they have to say abt this.

    Strange times, we are living in.The people whose entire polity is based on Hate as prescribed in their religious scriptures seem to be invoking "secularism". In India this term secular has been so badly abused that its synonym seems to be subjugation of majority Hindus at the hands of an monolithic vote bank of "peace loving, marginalized & scared Muslims". The policy of "secularism" has been experimented all over all India with great" Success" by the Limousine Liberals, but nowhere has it been so pronounced and effective as it has been in J&K. It bears a name there, yes an indigenous name, a name whose etymology no one knows. It is called Kashmiriyat. So what exactly does it mean? Well to a lot of Indians which includes Congressmen, Half bred and Ill read Journalists, Bonhomiests and Page 3 people it means "a unique syncretic culture wherein Hindus and Muslims live like brothers as would they live in a Sooraj Barjatya movie". Well who doesnt love the concept of idealistic romance with mush, flowers, chocs, temples & mosques all in symbiotic and syncretic idylic vale.

    The only problem with this is that the much hyped Kashmiriyat which people like Karan Thapar and etal invoke every time is that it has been used as a convenient stick to beat the Hindus of Kashmir. I have often been told that there have been no riots in Kashmir.True, there haven't been any. But doesn't it take two to riot. The Hindus of Kashmir have faced the ire of irate Islamists right from the day when the Muslims came to Kashmir. There are hundreds of instances from books of History to suggest that Hindus were forced to convert, their temples were desecrated and thus the real Kashmir was in a way converted to the present day" Islamist paradise "that it is. For those who want to delve deep into the Islamic Iconoclasm and the policy of establishing the rule of Deen may refer to this. As Anantnag beomes Islamabad, Hari Parvat becomes Kohe Maran, Shankaracharya Hill becomes Sulaiman Teng secularism thrives and Kashmiriyat lives on in the drawing rooms of our Limousine Liberals.

    We may not have to travel too far in times to know how our Kashmiriyat Wadis stood like mute spectators while their Kashmiriyat was getting raped. At the onset of the Islamist insurgency in 1989 Muslims of the valley went berserk, the mosques became centres of spreading hate and venom, the secularists of today ie Yasin Malik, Mirwaiz Farooq (Omar's father) and the eternal rabble rouser the Geelani went on exhorting people in the name of religion. The very Yasin Malik who today behaves like the last apostle of Peace, went on killing Hindus. In less than three months, in Srinagar city alone, 89 Pandits were selectively killed by JKLF of whose Yasin Malik is today the Chariman. The irate mobs shouted "Azzadi ka Matlab kya ...La Illah Illalah", "Aesse Gache Kashir Batav Bagaer ti Batnev saan" meaning We want Kashmir without Pandit men but with Pandit women. As all this happened the Kasmiriyat Wadis in the rest of nation slept or went to Hibernation. Half a million souls became refugees and Secularism survived.
    That day when we left our home in the middle of the night secularism meant "death to Hindus". This still was just the beginning of my tryst with "sickularism". My mother wept bitterly as I read the news that our house in Bagat-i-Kanipora was torched. My father did not speak to anyone for more than month. We thought he had gone dumb.

    Now, as Sajjad Lone gives in his sob story about baby milk not being available in Kashmir, I wish to ask him, Did you and your ilk and that includes your slain father bother to check whether we ever had anything to eat or hide ourselves under? My dear friend... Hatred begets more haterd. You are reaping what you have sown. You are lucky that GoI is with you. They are kiling Hindus so that you may get your dog food. Everytime a terrorist attack happens, the liberals do not fail to tell us that this is a response to Babri Mosque demolition and Gujarat riots. May I ask them why is it the exclusive privelige of the Muslims alone to take revenge. For one Babri Mosque we have 600 temples desecrated in Kashmir. With my own eyes have I seen sh.it on the very God I used to offer milk and flowers every morning. We did not kill anyone in retaliation. We did not burst bombs in Muslim localities. We did not run campaigns of hate despite being the worst sufferers of "sickularism".

    While I cannot stop anyone from sticking or being in love with anything, I will no longer remain a mute spectator to Islamic terrorism or their quest for turning Darul Harb to Darul Islam. Time has come to meet fire with fire. If they think they can bring the Indian Government on its knees by bringing a couple of thousand rabble rousers on the streets of Kashmir they have more than met their match on the Streets of Jammu. It is now or never. Let, death do us apart believers in Kashmiriyat live in their ill conceived and misunderstood Utopia. It is time to move on Comrades.
    ! ... be BOLD in what you stand for !
    !! ... i've the simplest tastes, i'm always satisfied with the best !!
    !!! ... be yourself, everyone else is already taken !!!

  11. #11
    Thanks Brahm for putting in the comments of your Kashmiri Pandit friends who are the actual sufferers in comparison to the Islamists who shed crocodile tears and who are good in publicity gimmicks thanks to the Sickularist Media.

    How many times this country has to be divided on religious lines? We gave the muslims the country of their choice. They took it more than willingly. The Islamists are once again raising the ugly head of secessionism and terrorism but this time the difference is that its going to happen Pan India with much serious repercussions as they have spread their tentacles all across the land. The demography of our country has changed drastically over the past few decades thanks to the spineless and cowardly acts of the Central governments and the so called intelligentsia leaving no stone unturned in its quest towards minority appeasement.

    Whats happening in Kashmir as a result of the fire being fanned by the Islamists is just the tip of the iceberg. It shows us a glimpse of things to come in the not too distant future. Well Brahm, could not stop myself from keying in my views. Hindus being kicked out of their homes is not going to be limited to Kashmir, but wait and watch, the same will be repeated all across the country with the rapidly changing demographics. If with so many examples around, we still sleep on it, then only God can save us... And as has been said by some wise man long time ago - God helps those who help themselves..
    Last edited by skadian123; September 2nd, 2008 at 10:12 PM.

  12. #12

    Thumbs up

    Tewatia Uncle, Thanks a lot for sharing the speech, its indeed very informative n provide inside facts of Kashmier issue!

    Kudos to Lt Gen Sinha!!


    Rock on
    Jit
    .. " Until Lions have their historians, tales of the hunt shall always glorify the hunter! " ..



  13. #13

    Hinduon ka sabsay bada dushman khud hindu hai.

    Hinduo ko sabsay jayda khatra in so-called secular hinduon say hai jo apney dharm kee burai karney mein bilkul der nahi kartey.

    Jawaharlal Nehru say leker Manmohan Singh tak muslim tustikarn kay raag allap rahey hain, Mulyam Singh, Lalu Yadav, Mayawati or sarey hindu comunist hinduo ke against bolney mein kabhee kamee nahi chhodtey fir sepretist koun hai yea dekhna hoga.

    Orrisa mein eak christian ko jala ker mar deney per Pop ka msg aagaya or sarey christian school eak din key liyea band rahey, Wanhi per eak hindu
    sawami ko jo kee dharm parivartan key virodh mein kaam ker raha tha usey uskey kai sathiyeo key saath mar deney per bhee koi bolney tak ko tayar nahi hai, why?

    Saari duniya Islaamic terrirism say pareshan hai fir bhe unhey duniya bher kee suvidhai/subsedi keu dee ja rahi hai jab kee wo sarker ko tax tak deney ko tayar nahi hai.

    Agar ab bhee hindu nahi jaga to bahut der ho jayagee, usey apna adhikar mangna hoga, aaj jis pasey say kashmeriyeo ko subsedised suvidhai mil rahi hai wo hinduo key dawara diya gay tax ka paisa hai. Hindu unhey barso say paal rahey hai or wo hamarey dharm-esthal key liyea jameen tak deney ko tayar nahi jo jameen unkee kabhee thee hee nahi us per un muthi bhar logo ney kabja ker rakha hai or jo Pandit uskey malik they wo beghar hoker ghoom rahey hai.
    WORD IMPOSSIBLE SAYS I M POSSIBLE.

    Apologising dosent mean that U are wrong & the other is right.....It only means that U value the relationship much more than ur ego.

  14. #14
    you are absolutely coorect Karmveer Ji.

    Lekin not everybodi willing to understand it it. I was very shocked/disturbed when some people on this forum said protest in kashmir (Jihad) are freedom of speech, which means that whateven muslim are protesting Kashmir is OK as this is freed democracy.

    If this is the case than what is the difference between Jats and Raam Vilas Paswaan.

    Yes log jis thali mai khate hai usee mai ched karte hai. Not acceptable.

    And critisizing the Amarnath protest, which actually has very solid resaon for some land as population has increased there and more facilities are needed for woman/kids etc.

    It is little difficult to understand when one of major sufferers in J&K are Jats from Army etc. I mean we have first hand information from our own people. There is not much a difference between locals and terrorrist. They go hand-in-hand.

    anywas. This thread is ok so far as no oppossition but support.
    lets see.

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