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Thread: One Rank One Pension (OROP) for Defence Pensioners

  1. #81
    Dear Karan,

    I don’t agree with your point of view being expressed on the forum in various threads about the discussion with regard to matters military. However, that doesn’t mean that I will dismiss your views, which is the most common trait noticed here. The discussion naturally becomes passionate too. I shall try and give my point of view in simple language.

    The military service in India was and is voluntary. I joined the forces because of passion to serve my motherland. I was fully aware of the dangers involved when I opted for Infantry and served with my head held high for 21 years. Given another chance, I shall do exactly that, again and again. It is my choice and no one can convince me about the correctness of my decision or otherwise. Others may be corrupt but I can only speak for myself. I have held various important appointments during my career and I never indulged in any act that was ‘un-officer like’.

    The Indian Army officers who get posted to US or other foreign countries are mostly those who have had an outstanding career record. Yes, sometimes few in-laws too can manage. However, if they sell their souls for getting a green card, it is a sad reflection on their character. I personally know more than a dozen officers who were posted in foreign countries, including Washington, and I can vouch for their uprightness. Every nation and force has black sheep. What to do, the system is like that. Even ‘many so called greats Americans’ managed to escape from being sent to Vietnam by using influence of one kind or the other.

    The Indian Army follows a chain of command like any other Army. In an Infantry Battalion the second in command (2IC) always takes over if the commanding officer is killed or wounded. If a company commander (a Major) is wounded then his 2IC, an officer or a JCO, takes over. Who says Indian Army doesn’t train their JCO’s and NCO’s to be leaders? There are numerous posts along the Pak & China border (Platoon and Section Posts) which are commanded by JCO’s & NCO’s. In fact formal courses are conducted at premier training establishments for junior leaders. However, officers, whenever commanding a company or even a special combat detachment lead from the front.

    It is hard to believe that in an actual combat situation a Battalion Commander of a US Infantry Battalion has a Sgt Major as his 2IC and not a Lt Col. A Sgt Major can officiate as a CO in a training exercise, but in actual combat, I have my doubt, unless there is no officer left to take over. Presently, a debate is taking place in military circles all over the world about the overall leadership, effectiveness and efficiency of the mightiest Army of the world (US Army). We can discuss that later.

    It is very easy to comment on the issue of ‘false bravado’ of an officer that leads to casualties. Who is to judge? There are too many factors that are in play leading to a combat situation. It is easy to blame and there is no end to this blame game. The Army can blame the Government for not giving priority to the needs of modernization of the forces. If funds are released, there is a blame game that kick backs have been received. The socialists and communists say that why so much expenditure on armed forces when there is abject poverty in the country. The human rights groups too start making noise. There is no end.

    I am also against the over romanticizing of our fallen comrades who made the ultimate sacrifices for the ‘naam’, ‘namak’ & ‘nishan’ of their ‘Paltan’ and Nation. Well, who else is there to make that sacrifices if people from the Armed Forces don’t? Not the shopkeeper next door! Is there a need to make that sacrifice? I suppose if you don’t kill the enemy, he kills you. And the Indian Army is fighting a war since independence. It is not our fault to be in that situation. We can’t just pick up our bags and leave the borders unmanned, can we?

    We will continue to fight for better pay and perks, status, facilities and pensions. We are in a democracy and we have the constitutional right to do so. When ‘Masters’, ‘Teachers’, ‘Sweepers’, ‘IITians’, ‘Bankers’, ‘Doctors’ strike, they hold the country to ransom. We are, so far, only carrying out a very peaceful and disciplined protest.

    Best regards,

    JS Malik
    JAT BALWAN, JAI BHAGWAN

    (Ein Volk - Ein Reich - Ein Fuhrer)

  2. #82
    Some disguised stupids are brainlessly condemning the proud defence forces.They are foolish people and deserve mercy.Idiots will never improve.Politicians/IAS/IPS/contractors/bdos/sdos/tehsildars etc chahe desh ki kabbar khodd dein inn rakshashon ko manjoor hei par ye faujj ki beijjati karne se bazz nahin aate.....in ko ignore kiya jaye aur inki badtameezzee ko maaf kiya jaye...ye appradhhi hein.Col Malik aap apna khuun kyun fook rahe ho in bewakooffon ko samjhhane mein.Once an idiot is always stays one.

  3. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by karan View Post
    Col Malik, No pun intended. but does that mean Indian Army is training her NCO, JCO to be followers and not thinkers.
    Reason I say that is, I was deployed with US forces in Afghanistan couple years ago, during one Battalion level engagement, Battalion Commander told his men if anything happens to him in this engagement, his 2nd-in-C is the Sgt Major==Subedar Major of IA. In today's battlefield combat units have additional responsibility to be innovative and improvise on their feet during the life and death situation. Just interested in your thoughts.



    Furthermore, Col Malik--I see both sides here. I can understand why some members have some hatred toward some officers, maybe it is because some of their loved ones are no longer alive due to massive screw up of their commander's false bravado. There are plenty of stories making rounds about some officers false and misplaced bravado that led to deaths of many men.
    I was never a uniformed military personal but have spent enough time attached to units to understand the intricacies of military working.


    Bhai Karan Singh....tu Amrica mein hei ya idhhar kahin Haryana mein chakkar kat rahya sei.You seems to be a sick mind.Coat pehen lene se tameez nahin aati.You stretched beyond your imagination stupid.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by rajesh00 View Post
    Bhai Karan Singh....tu Amrica mein hei ya idhhar kahin Haryana mein chakkar kat rahya sei.You seems to be a sick mind.Coat pehen lene se tameez nahin aati.You stretched beyond your imagination stupid.
    Rajesh
    When you learn to construct a coherent sentence then come and talk to me. Until then keep reading.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by karan View Post
    Rajesh
    When you learn to construct a coherent sentence then come and talk to me. Until then keep reading.


    Again foolish.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by jagmohan View Post
    Dear Karan,

    I don’t agree with your point of view being expressed on the forum in various threads about the discussion with regard to matters military. However, that doesn’t mean that I will dismiss your views, which is the most common trait noticed here. The discussion naturally becomes passionate too. I shall try and give my point of view in simple language.
    Your digress is welcome and do agree that passions do fly.
    The Indian Army officers who get posted to US or other foreign countries are mostly those who have had an outstanding career record. Yes, sometimes few in-laws too can manage. However, if they sell their souls for getting a green card, it is a sad reflection on their character. I personally know more than a dozen officers who were posted in foreign countries, including Washington, and I can vouch for their uprightness. Every nation and force has black sheep. What to do, the system is like that. Even ‘many so called greats Americans’ managed to escape from being sent to Vietnam by using influence of one kind or the other.
    I didn't raise the question of "Great Americans". Just wrote how things have changed in last 10 years.

    It is hard to believe that in an actual combat situation a Battalion Commander of a US Infantry Battalion has a Sgt Major as his 2IC and not a Lt Col. A Sgt Major can officiate as a CO in a training exercise, but in actual combat, I have my doubt, unless there is no officer left to take over. Presently, a debate is taking place in military circles all over the world about the overall leadership, effectiveness and efficiency of the mightiest Army of the world (US Army). We can discuss that later.
    Would love to have discussion on that. A constructive criticism doesn't hurt anyone, it only makes us better.

    It is very easy to comment on the issue of ‘false bravado’ of an officer that leads to casualties. Who is to judge? There are too many factors that are in play leading to a combat situation. It is easy to blame and there is no end to this blame game. The Army can blame the Government for not giving priority to the needs of modernization of the forces. If funds are released, there is a blame game that kick backs have been received. The socialists and communists say that why so much expenditure on armed forces when there is abject poverty in the country. The human rights groups too start making noise. There is no end.
    I am surprised that dissension and objections from communist, socialist and Human Rights group can hold the modernization of Military Hostage. Somebody is not donning the mantle of media blitz.

    We will continue to fight for better pay and perks, status, facilities and pensions. We are in a democracy and we have the constitutional right to do so. When ‘Masters’, ‘Teachers’, ‘Sweepers’, ‘IITians’, ‘Bankers’, ‘Doctors’ strike, they hold the country to ransom. We are, so far, only carrying out a very peaceful and disciplined protest.
    I guess the compromise was reached and the cake was shared.

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by karan View Post
    Your digress is welcome and do agree that passions do fly.
    I didn't raise the question of "Great Americans". Just wrote how things have changed in last 10 years.

    Would love to have discussion on that. A constructive criticism doesn't hurt anyone, it only makes us better.

    I am surprised that dissension and objections from communist, socialist and Human Rights group can hold the modernization of Military Hostage. Somebody is not donning the mantle of media blitz.

    I guess the compromise was reached and the cake was shared.



    propriety demands descrition else limits are crossed and idiots are let loose to torment the environment out here.Ask them to stop please.

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