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Thread: Asia's "Jats" and "Alani" Become Europe's "Jutes" and "Alans"

  1. #1

    Asia's "Jats" and "Alani" Become Europe's "Jutes" and "Alans"

    Refer http://www.israelite.info/bookexcerp...ibestoday.html


    Asia's "Jats" and "Alani" Become Europe's "Jutes" and "Alans"
    As the Saxons migrated into Europe and the British Isles, they were closely allied to the "Jutes." History records that after their entry into the British Isles, they settled in Kent, the Isle of Wight and parts of Hampshire.79 The Jutes left their name (Jute-land) on the Danish peninsula of "Jutland." Where did they come from? Is there evidence of their name in Asia? There certainly is, and even then we find them closely identified with the Sacae, who became the Saxons. When describing the Sacae Scythian tribes who migrated from the Caspian Sea region in the second century, B.C., to settle within the Parthian Empire, historian George Rawlinson notes that the greatest tribe, the Massagetae, was also named the "great Jits, or Jats."80 These migrating Sacae or Saka gave their name to the Parthian province of Sacastan and to the Saka kingdoms of Northwest India. The term "Jat" has survived as a caste-name in northwest India into modern times, attesting to the ancient dominance of the Jats in that region. The Encyclopedia Britannica states the following about the ancient "Jats:"
    "The early Mohammedans wrote of the Jats country as lying between Kirman and Mansura...Speculation has identified them with the Getae of Herodotus ...[or] Scythians or Indo-Scythians."81 (Emphasis added)
    The Asian Jats lived near the land of Kirman (i.e. the Kerman or German region of Parthia). If they were Asian "Getae," their later European name was the "Getes" or "Goths." If they were Scythians (Sacae), they became known as Germans or Saxons as they entered Europe. Collier's Encyclopedia states of the Jats:
    "They are believed to be descended from the Saka or Scythians, who moved into India in a series of migrations between the second century B.C. and the fifth century A.D."82 (Emphasis added)
    Since the Jats were a branch of the "Sacae," called "Saxones" by Ptolemy, it is not surprising that they were still allied to the "Saxons" and called "Jutes" by the time they reached Europe and the British Isles. Note that the consonants of the words “Jats” and “Jutes” are identical.
    Many Sacae moved into Parthia in the second century B.C., but some did stay in Asia centuries after the fall of Parthia as we will document in the next chapter. In Asia, the Sacae and Jats lived next to the Kermans (Germanii); in Europe they were called the Saxons and Jutes, and were part of the migrating Germans. Their names changed very little as they moved from Parthian Asia into Europe as part of the great Caucasian migrations. The names "Kerman" and "Jats" also remained in the regions of Asia where they once lived. Some Jats stayed in India and intermarried with other tribes in the region. Today, the Indian Jats "in general have a fair complexion,"83 supporting the conclusion that they had Saka ancestors. As discussed in books two and three of this series, the Massagetae, a leading tribe of the Sacae were most likely the descendants of the Israelite tribe of Manasseh, and the suffix "-getae" indicates a common origin with the "Getae" ("Goths") of the Black Sea region.
    Historian Herbert Hannay wrote about this connection:
    "The Goths, too, it will be remembered, when in Asia as the Massagetae, had been worshippers of the Sun..."84(Emphasis added)
    The second book in this series discussed the Massagetae in detail, acknowledging that they were sun-worshippers. After crushing the army of the Persian King, Cyrus the Great, in the sixth century B.C., they migrated into Parthia in the second century B.C. They lived in the Parthian province of Sakastan, named for their Sacae origins. It must be acknowledged that while Christianity had significant numbers of converts in the Parthian Empire, many Parthians and Scythians remained Zoroastrians or sun-worshippers. Hannay's quote identifies the Massagetae with the "Goths" who migrated into Europe. However, this author thinks most of the Massagetae (a "Sacae" tribe) merged into the Saxon tribes who migrated into northern Europe after Parthia fell.
    Another Asian tribe that moved from Asia into Europe was the Alans (or Alani). Historian George Rawlinson notes that bands of Alani lived from the Black Sea region to the east of the Caspian Sea.85 They have been called "half-caste Scyths," and many Alani followed the Vandals into Europe.86 Collier's Encyclopedia asserts the Alans were a tribe of "Iranian-speaking nomads" who moved from Asia into Europe in the 5th century A.D., and established a kingdom of their own in Portugal.87 Even as the numerous third century Goths by the Black Sea exhibited "Iranian" (i.e., Parthian) traits, the Alans had an "Iranian" language. This confirms they had a common origin with the Parthians and Scythians, whose "Iranian" language and culture is well-documented.
    The Indo-Europeans who migrated from Asia into Europe in the aftermath of Parthia's fall included many different nations and tribes. As tribes intermingled, became allied or split up as they poured into Europe, there came to be considerable overlap in terms such as "Germans," "Goths," and "Saxons." The term "Caucasian" became an overall term to describe all these tribes migrating into Europe through the Caucasus Mountain/Black Sea region.



    Footnotes:
    46.Turner, Sharon, The History of the Anglo-Saxons, pp. 100-101
    47.Langenscheidt's German-English/English-German Dictionary, see word "Saxon" in English-German section, p. 510
    48.Camden, William, Britannia, p. 129
    49.Turner, Sharon, The History of the Anglo-Saxons, Vol. 1, pp. 31 and 34
    50.Rawlinson, The Sixth Oriental Monarchy, pp. 187-189
    51.Gawler, Colonel J.C., p. 6 (citing Sharon Turner's History Of The Anglo-Saxons, Vol. 1, p. 100)
    52.R. H. Hodgkin, History of the Anglo-Saxons, p. 17
    53.Church, Early Britain, pp. 80-82
    54.Camden, Britannia, p. 141
    55.Hodgkin, p. 36
    56.Ibid, p.42
    57.Fisher, DV., The Anglo-Saxon Age, p. 1
    58.Turner, Vol. 1, p. 50
    59.Hodgkin, pp. 24-27
    60.Bradley, pp. 1, 7-8
    61.Encyclopedia Britannica, Vol. 10, Heading entitled: "Early History," p. 549
    62.Ibid. p. 549
    63.Ibid, p. 5
    64.Ibid, p. 4
    65.Encyclopedia Britannica, Vol. 10, Heading entitled "Goths," Subhead: Gothic Language," pp. 551-552
    66.Bradley, p. 5
    67.Ibid, p. 5
    68.Gawler, p. 9
    69.Bradley, pp. 4-5
    70. Hannay, Herbert, European and other Race Origins, p. 232
    71.Ibid, p. 232
    72.Herodotus, The History, 1, 125
    73.Encyclopedia Britannica, Vol. 17, Heading entitled "Persis," p. 611
    74.Strabo, The Geography of Strabo, Vol. 7, 15. 2. 14
    75.Ibid., Vol. 5, 12. 4. 3
    76.Church, Alfred, Carthage, p. 269
    77.Dilke, O.A.W., Greek and Roman Maps, p. 46 (citing Pliny, iv. 81)
    78.Encyclopedia Britannica, Vol. 19, Heading entitled "Sarmatae," p. 1001
    79.Ibid., Vol. 13, Heading entitled, "Jutes," p. 217
    80.Rawlinson, The Sixth Oriental Monarchy, p. 118
    81.Encyclopedia Britannica, Vol. 12, Heading entitled "Jat," p. 970
    82.Collier's Encyclopedia, Vol. 11, Heading entitled "Jats," p. 356
    83.Ibid., p. 357
    84. Hannay, Herbert, European and other Race Origins, p. 233
    85.Rawlinson, The Sixth Oriental Monarchy, p.291(see also footnote 2)
    86.Encyclopedia Britannica, Vol. 1, Heading entitled "Alani," p. 496
    87.Collier's Encyclopedia, Vol. 1, Heading entitled "Alani," p. 310

  2. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to vivekkaliyar For This Useful Post:

    balraaj (July 6th, 2013), bhupindersingh (February 22nd, 2011), cooljat (February 22nd, 2011), maddhan1979 (June 2nd, 2013), Moar (November 28th, 2011), ravinderjeet (February 22nd, 2011), suniltomar (February 22nd, 2011)

  3. #2

    Post Bird’s Eye View of Jatt History: JattWorld.COM

    Hi Guyz, I would like to Share the Link to a Very Important Article written on Jat History. A MUST READ !!!


    See:
    http://www.jattworld.com/online/bird...w-jatt-history

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by vivekkaliyar View Post
    Refer http://www.israelite.info/bookexcerp...ibestoday.html


    Asia's "Jats" and "Alani" Become Europe's "Jutes" and "Alans"
    As the Saxons migrated into Europe and the British Isles, they were closely allied to the "Jutes." History records that after their entry into the British Isles, they settled in Kent, the Isle of Wight and parts of Hampshire.79 The Jutes left their name (Jute-land) on the Danish peninsula of "Jutland." Where did they come from? Is there evidence of their name in Asia? There certainly is, and even then we find them closely identified with the Sacae, who became the Saxons. When describing the Sacae Scythian tribes who migrated from the Caspian Sea region in the second century, B.C., to settle within the Parthian Empire, historian George Rawlinson notes that the greatest tribe, the Massagetae, was also named the "great Jits, or Jats."80 These migrating Sacae or Saka gave their name to the Parthian province of Sacastan and to the Saka kingdoms of Northwest India. The term "Jat" has survived as a caste-name in northwest India into modern times, attesting to the ancient dominance of the Jats in that region. The Encyclopedia Britannica states the following about the ancient "Jats:"
    "The early Mohammedans wrote of the Jats country as lying between Kirman and Mansura...Speculation has identified them with the Getae of Herodotus ...[or] Scythians or Indo-Scythians."81 (Emphasis added)
    The Asian Jats lived near the land of Kirman (i.e. the Kerman or German region of Parthia). If they were Asian "Getae," their later European name was the "Getes" or "Goths." If they were Scythians (Sacae), they became known as Germans or Saxons as they entered Europe. Collier's Encyclopedia states of the Jats:
    "They are believed to be descended from the Saka or Scythians, who moved into India in a series of migrations between the second century B.C. and the fifth century A.D."82 (Emphasis added)
    Since the Jats were a branch of the "Sacae," called "Saxones" by Ptolemy, it is not surprising that they were still allied to the "Saxons" and called "Jutes" by the time they reached Europe and the British Isles. Note that the consonants of the words “Jats” and “Jutes” are identical.
    Many Sacae moved into Parthia in the second century B.C., but some did stay in Asia centuries after the fall of Parthia as we will document in the next chapter. In Asia, the Sacae and Jats lived next to the Kermans (Germanii); in Europe they were called the Saxons and Jutes, and were part of the migrating Germans. Their names changed very little as they moved from Parthian Asia into Europe as part of the great Caucasian migrations. The names "Kerman" and "Jats" also remained in the regions of Asia where they once lived. Some Jats stayed in India and intermarried with other tribes in the region. Today, the Indian Jats "in general have a fair complexion,"83 supporting the conclusion that they had Saka ancestors. As discussed in books two and three of this series, the Massagetae, a leading tribe of the Sacae were most likely the descendants of the Israelite tribe of Manasseh, and the suffix "-getae" indicates a common origin with the "Getae" ("Goths") of the Black Sea region.
    Historian Herbert Hannay wrote about this connection:
    "The Goths, too, it will be remembered, when in Asia as the Massagetae, had been worshippers of the Sun..."84(Emphasis added)
    The second book in this series discussed the Massagetae in detail, acknowledging that they were sun-worshippers. After crushing the army of the Persian King, Cyrus the Great, in the sixth century B.C., they migrated into Parthia in the second century B.C. They lived in the Parthian province of Sakastan, named for their Sacae origins. It must be acknowledged that while Christianity had significant numbers of converts in the Parthian Empire, many Parthians and Scythians remained Zoroastrians or sun-worshippers. Hannay's quote identifies the Massagetae with the "Goths" who migrated into Europe. However, this author thinks most of the Massagetae (a "Sacae" tribe) merged into the Saxon tribes who migrated into northern Europe after Parthia fell.
    Another Asian tribe that moved from Asia into Europe was the Alans (or Alani). Historian George Rawlinson notes that bands of Alani lived from the Black Sea region to the east of the Caspian Sea.85 They have been called "half-caste Scyths," and many Alani followed the Vandals into Europe.86 Collier's Encyclopedia asserts the Alans were a tribe of "Iranian-speaking nomads" who moved from Asia into Europe in the 5th century A.D., and established a kingdom of their own in Portugal.87 Even as the numerous third century Goths by the Black Sea exhibited "Iranian" (i.e., Parthian) traits, the Alans had an "Iranian" language. This confirms they had a common origin with the Parthians and Scythians, whose "Iranian" language and culture is well-documented.
    The Indo-Europeans who migrated from Asia into Europe in the aftermath of Parthia's fall included many different nations and tribes. As tribes intermingled, became allied or split up as they poured into Europe, there came to be considerable overlap in terms such as "Germans," "Goths," and "Saxons." The term "Caucasian" became an overall term to describe all these tribes migrating into Europe through the Caucasus Mountain/Black Sea region.



    Footnotes:
    46.Turner, Sharon, The History of the Anglo-Saxons, pp. 100-101
    47.Langenscheidt's German-English/English-German Dictionary, see word "Saxon" in English-German section, p. 510
    48.Camden, William, Britannia, p. 129
    49.Turner, Sharon, The History of the Anglo-Saxons, Vol. 1, pp. 31 and 34
    50.Rawlinson, The Sixth Oriental Monarchy, pp. 187-189
    51.Gawler, Colonel J.C., p. 6 (citing Sharon Turner's History Of The Anglo-Saxons, Vol. 1, p. 100)
    52.R. H. Hodgkin, History of the Anglo-Saxons, p. 17
    53.Church, Early Britain, pp. 80-82
    54.Camden, Britannia, p. 141
    55.Hodgkin, p. 36
    56.Ibid, p.42
    57.Fisher, DV., The Anglo-Saxon Age, p. 1
    58.Turner, Vol. 1, p. 50
    59.Hodgkin, pp. 24-27
    60.Bradley, pp. 1, 7-8
    61.Encyclopedia Britannica, Vol. 10, Heading entitled: "Early History," p. 549
    62.Ibid. p. 549
    63.Ibid, p. 5
    64.Ibid, p. 4
    65.Encyclopedia Britannica, Vol. 10, Heading entitled "Goths," Subhead: Gothic Language," pp. 551-552
    66.Bradley, p. 5
    67.Ibid, p. 5
    68.Gawler, p. 9
    69.Bradley, pp. 4-5
    70. Hannay, Herbert, European and other Race Origins, p. 232
    71.Ibid, p. 232
    72.Herodotus, The History, 1, 125
    73.Encyclopedia Britannica, Vol. 17, Heading entitled "Persis," p. 611
    74.Strabo, The Geography of Strabo, Vol. 7, 15. 2. 14
    75.Ibid., Vol. 5, 12. 4. 3
    76.Church, Alfred, Carthage, p. 269
    77.Dilke, O.A.W., Greek and Roman Maps, p. 46 (citing Pliny, iv. 81)
    78.Encyclopedia Britannica, Vol. 19, Heading entitled "Sarmatae," p. 1001
    79.Ibid., Vol. 13, Heading entitled, "Jutes," p. 217
    80.Rawlinson, The Sixth Oriental Monarchy, p. 118
    81.Encyclopedia Britannica, Vol. 12, Heading entitled "Jat," p. 970
    82.Collier's Encyclopedia, Vol. 11, Heading entitled "Jats," p. 356
    83.Ibid., p. 357
    84. Hannay, Herbert, European and other Race Origins, p. 233
    85.Rawlinson, The Sixth Oriental Monarchy, p.291(see also footnote 2)
    86.Encyclopedia Britannica, Vol. 1, Heading entitled "Alani," p. 496
    87.Collier's Encyclopedia, Vol. 1, Heading entitled "Alani," p. 310

    EXCELLENT, long live Kaliyar.

  5. The Following User Says Thank You to maddhan1979 For This Useful Post:

    balraaj (July 6th, 2013)

  6. #4
    Good Attempt by both Mr Kaliyar and Mr Moar !!
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

  7. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by DrRajpalSingh View Post
    Good Attempt by both Mr Kaliyar and Mr Moar !!
    I also read that "Saxons" or "Anglo Saxons", were also "Scythians".

  8. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    I also read that "Saxons" or "Anglo Saxons", were also "Scythians".
    Friend,

    Kindly give more details if these three had any connection with Jat identity or not to make the information complete !

    Thanks
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

  9. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by DrRajpalSingh View Post
    Friend,

    Kindly give more details if these three had any connection with Jat identity or not to make the information complete !

    Thanks
    If i remember correctly, u have to look for "archaeological gold artifacts" that belonged to these tribes and were found in UK.

  10. #8
    I shall try to find out !!!!
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

  11. #9

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    IndoEuropean tribal links:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaunt
    The first para of the link provided by you is about a breed of dogs not human beings. please read note also before the below given para which clearly mentions its non reliability, i.e.

    The link is : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaunt

    The
    Alaunt is an extinct breed of dog, its original breed having existed in central Asia and Europe from ancient times through the 17th century. A number of modern dog breeds are believed[by whom?] directly descended from the Alaunt. The original Alaunt is thought to have resembled a Caucasian Shepherd Dog. They were large, short coated dogs of varying type. The Alaunt was bred by the Alani tribes, the nomads of Indo-European Sarmatianancestry who spoke an Indo-Iranian language. The Alans were known as superb warriors, herdsmen, and breeders of horses and dogs. The Alans bred their dogs for work and had developed different strains within the breed for specific duties.

    In view of it, it is requested that we must read the matter given under the headings carefully before advising others to follow the same.

    Thanks
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by DrRajpalSingh View Post
    The first para of the link provided by you is about a breed of dogs not human beings. please read note also before the below given para which clearly mentions its non reliability, i.e.

    The link is : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaunt

    The
    Alaunt is an extinct breed of dog, its original breed having existed in central Asia and Europe from ancient times through the 17th century. A number of modern dog breeds are believed[by whom?] directly descended from the Alaunt. The original Alaunt is thought to have resembled a Caucasian Shepherd Dog. They were large, short coated dogs of varying type. The Alaunt was bred by the Alani tribes, the nomads of Indo-European Sarmatianancestry who spoke an Indo-Iranian language. The Alans were known as superb warriors, herdsmen, and breeders of horses and dogs. The Alans bred their dogs for work and had developed different strains within the breed for specific duties.

    In view of it, it is requested that we must read the matter given under the headings carefully before advising others to follow the same.

    Thanks

    Dear Dr. Rajpal,
    When we are talking about some civilization, some people, some context of human life for e.g. IndoEuropean people, u can not leave the aspects of life that represented them. Animals is one of them, several breeds of horses, dogs and other animals trace their roots to these ancient civilizations and people. A human civilization is not only represented by its gene pool rather it is also represented by other environmental factors such as animals that were part of their ancient huma life.

    As per the reliability of the above fact, if someone does not consider it reliable, the person can verify, modify or factualize the reliability himself based on his investigation. I will be happy to hear more.

    Thanks.
    Last edited by maddhan1979; July 19th, 2013 at 08:12 AM.

  14. #12
    Thanks for sharing your views on the issue,
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

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