Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 21

Thread: man singh tomar of gwalior was a jat or rajput?

  1. #1

    Question man singh tomar of gwalior was a jat or rajput?

    i hv searched a lot on net on glorius history of gwalior n everywhere (in rajput history ,in wikipedia , n all sites it was added in rajput dynasty )it is clear mentioned that mann singh tomar was rajput king bt jats in gwalior n also jat community says that he was jat can any jat historian will tell about this( even in various site they didn't mentioned about doubly claiming on this topic) ?????

  2. #2
    Can somebody answer this "man singh tomar of gwalior was a jat or rajput?

  3. #3
    Email Verification Pending
    Login to view details.
    jat me se hi rajput bane hain.
    Last edited by kanishka; November 3rd, 2007 at 09:01 PM.

  4. #4
    Email Verification Pending
    Login to view details.
    I've seen Gwalior fort. Its very ancient and built by Asoka Jat perhaps or may be even earlier than that. Lastly I think it was with Jats, taken over by Rajputs from them. Then Marathas (scindia's) captured it from Rajputs.
    Last edited by kanishka; November 3rd, 2007 at 09:05 PM.

  5. #5
    Email Verification Pending
    Login to view details.
    He was not JAt
    as per history he was a Rajput

  6. #6
    This History of the Tomars is discussed.

    The extract below and the associated messages will give readers a better insight

    Ravi Chaudhary

    ********

    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JatHistory/message/2819


    History of the Jat Tomars(4)- Gwalior

    -The Tomars of Gwalior

    The History of the Tomars of Gwalior is not a subject that has been
    explored.

    The general history starts of with Man Singh circa 16th century CE,
    and he is designated as a Rajput king, and the line that follows him
    is also known then as Rajput. And that is that.

    However this is not quite the complete story of the Tomars of Gwalior-
    Who were the? What were their antecedents? Where did they spring from?

    One book that sheds some light on this is a book in Hindi, called
    "Tomaron ka Ithihaas", h or "The history of the Tomars" by Harihar
    Dvivedi.

    The book is out of print. It is held is high esteem by a number of
    historians including the late Hukam Singh Pauria, the author of: "The
    Jats- their Origins, Antiquity, Migrations, Mathan Press Rohtak,
    Haryana India.

    Excerpts form the book appear in ` The book Jat History- Jat Ithihaas
    ( 1991) by Mahendra Kumar Shastri, Parmesh Sharma, and Rajpal
    Shastri, Madhur Prakshan, Bazar Sitaram, Delhi Price Rs 300 ( US $
    6/-) ( available from the Arya Samaj Delhi)

    I have translated the entries, which are a little disjointed. I am
    putting it forward in its raw form, as it may be interest to readers.

    How ever they do tell us a tale, which is very relevant to those
    looking at the history of the Tomars, including those of Gwalior


    One thing is quite clear.

    The Tomars of Gwalior were not Rajputs. They were Jats from the Delhi
    region.

    They also have 84 villages near Gwalior. Most of these are Jat Tomars,
    but some are also Rajput Tomars.

    They may have started to call themselves Rajputs circa 16th century,
    but that was not the case earlier.


    Ravi Chaudhary

    HISTORY OF THR TOMARS OF GWALIOR



    Tejpal Tomar was the last ruling ruler of the Tomars of Delhi. He
    ascended the throne in 1192, following the defeat of his cousin
    Prithviraj Chauhan. He ruled for only fifteen days, and was defeated
    by Kutubin Aibak, the General of Mohammad Ghori. [When Ghori's head
    cut off by the Khokkar Jats, (1206CE), Aibak succeeded him throne and
    his dynasty is known to historians as the slave dynasty, as he
    originally was a slave of Ghori. In 1192 he was till a general].

    In circa 1192/3 CE Tejpal's son Achal Braham Dev Tomar left Delhi for
    the Chambal area and arrived in Asiagarh.

    The Dynastical history of the Tomars of Gwalior starts at that time.

    Some details of the descendants

    Tejpal's son was Achal Brahmdev

    1. Achal Brahmdev ( 1193 CE)
    2. Vir Shah
    3. Madan Pal
    4. Bhupati
    5. Kunwar Sigh


    6: The son of Kamal Singh (GhatamDev 1340 to 1342 CE)
    7. Dev's son Varma( Dev Brahma) 1342 to 1375 CE)
    8. Vir Singh 1375 CE to 1402 CE

    9. According to the History of the Tomars (page 27) Vir Singh had 20
    sons. He was blessed with 3 sons, 1) Udharandev, 2) Lakshmandev 3)
    Durlabdev (Dhola). Virsingh ruled Asiagarh and also conquered Gopalpur.

    A Tomar Inscriptions tells us:

    "Durhe Gopalaakya Yadrachi Shatmukhi
    Prajya Samrajya Laksmi."

    10. Viral Dev's son (4) from 1402CE to 1423 CE

    11 Agnate Dev's son 95) from 1423 CE to 1425 CE

    12 Dungrendra Singh( son of Narendra Singh) from 1425 CE to 1459 CE
    13 Kirti Singh from 1459 CE to 1480 CE.


    Vir Singh Dev's dynasty ruled Gwalior for 125 years. He also wrote a
    book " Durga Bhakti Tarangani"


    (k) The local saying is that Dhola Shah the son of Vir Singh settled
    Dholpur. His father appointed him as the ruler of Chambal. He died in
    1423.

    Udharandev became the ruler of Gwalior after the death of his father.
    On the occasion of his father's Shradh (death anniversary) he had the
    lake of Ganagolatal in Gopal Garh cleaned.

    "Mahimahendrodharnohn Mahiyaan Aashardshith
    Panchbyon Pithrdev varthe"
    Inscription dated June 14, 1401 CE
    [Tomars of Gwalior (Hindi) page 37]

    Chandreev Dughsindhohsthsmadh Udharan Bhupatijarneeth:|
    Padmnabhkrth – Yadhodhar Charith (page 37, Gwalior ke Tomar)

    (10) Tarhrputr Virmendra
    : Sakal Vasumatipal Chudamanivamrya:
    Padmnabhakth Yashodhar Charith (Gwalior ke Tomar pp 48)

    Viramdev established the temple to Ambika Devi near Kuthwar Sudhaniya.
    (11, 12) Ganpatidev defeated his enemies and took the title
    Dungarsingh Dev. He is also known as Dungrendra.

    Gopachal Durg Tomarvanshi Raja Shri Ganpati Devastah Maharajdhiraj
    Shri DungarSingh Rajya Prnmathi||

    The Chaurasi of 1440 CE of Mathura.

    [ from the Multan pratima manuscript of Jammu Swami- Gwalior ke Tomar
    pp 77]


    (13) Gopachal Durge maharahdhiraj Hindu- Surtran Shri Kirti Singh
    Dev Jijjayrajya

    [From the inscription in the Gopachal fort of the year 1466CE]


    Kirtimal( Kirtimull) is also famous as Gajmull. His son Bhanu Singh
    had no offspring.

    (14) Kalyaan Mull (1480CE to 1486 CE]


    (15) Man Singh ( 1486 VE to 1516 CE)

    (13) Kirti Singh ruled in Gwalior upto 20th of April 1480. He
    constructed a huge Lake near Gopal Garh. In the reign of Dungrendra
    Singh and his son, the entire kingdom was free of thieves, Dacoits,
    and low moral people. The populace was happy; there was peace, and pride.


    (14) Kalyaan Mull was also known as Kalyaan Sah and as Kalyan Singh.
    His reign started on the 20th of April 1480.

    Ambojini Bandukul Prastuth:
    Krpur Rajanya Udarkirti|
    Tirv Prata Paan ladhgdsh shatru streLokya Chandr:
    Shitipaal Ahsith||4||

    Tasyathmjohstith Gajmull ithi prsidh:
    Sangraamsanthpthparajith Vairivrindh;|
    Shnatyadhiashesh Shubhalshun sannivahs sh chnadrahshu
    nirmalyaeshoruchirehkrthash: ||5||

    Putrohsyam tsya kuthukartha-manangrang granth,
    Vilasijanvallabhmaathnohthi|
    Shrimaanmhahk vishesh kalavidghdh:
    Kalyanmull ithi Bhupmuniyarssvi||6||

    [Ananagrang prashsthith Gwalior ke Tomar pp114]

    (15) Maansingh ruled Gwalior for 30 years. He is compared to Lord Krishna.

    Krishnshritathsthu nanau Maan Singh:
    ChiranJeev Chirnendha Chirn Paalya medhineemr|
    Shri Maansingh Rajendra Yaavachchnandrdivakaroh||

    [Inscription Gwalior ke Tomar pp 130]

    He built Maan Mandir, Gujari Mahal, Badal Garh, and decorated them
    with illustrations and pictures.


    The other son of Kirti Singh, Bhanu Singh acknowledged and respected
    Maansingh.

    Man Singh had three nephews- Nihal Singh, Ajit Singh, and Narsingh Dev.

    (Gwalior ke Tomar pp 137)

    (a) Nihal Singh acted a diplomat and ambassador for the Gwalior kingdom.

    (b) Ajit Singh ran away from Agra after it was besieged by Humayan
    after the battle of Panipat. He took his family and tried to escape
    with the treasure. The Kohinoor diamond was in that treasure. The
    value of that diamond even in those days was considered to be so high,
    that the entire population of the world could be fed for two and a
    half days.

    This Koh –I Noor (the peak of the sky) went from Ajit Singh Tomar to
    Humayun in 1526, and in 1536 from Humayun to Shajehan, and from
    Shajehan to Muhammad Shah
    , then to Ahmad Sah Abdalli in 1757 CE, then to Shahujah, and then to
    Ranjit Singh. It then went into the hands of the British.

  7. #7
    continued


    © Narsingh Dev resided mostly in the Gujarat Courts,

    (d) Mitrasen Tomar was appointed the Governor of Rohitash Fort in
    Bihar. In 1661 he constructed the Mitraeshwar Mahadev (Shiv) temple.

    (e) Shajehan appointed Sangram Singh Tomar as the governor of the fort
    of Narwar; He erected a victory pillar there in 1631?

    (15) Maansingh ruled from 1486 CE to 1516 CE.

    (16) Vikramaditya was the last independent ruler of Gwalior. He was
    besieged by Ibrahim and by Humayun. The siege continued for five or
    six years. Khadakrai wrote:

    "Ghere reh Varsh Cheh: Panch theji Gaye aisohn
    Ghero aayi panchu pavan Nah NAD Pad Jaayi"

    The Tomar raja had made such arrangements inside his fort that for six
    years he held off Ibrahim and Humayun. Vikramaditya had received much
    wealth and a large army from his father, and because of this his
    fortress was impregnable. He died in battle in the plains of Panipat
    fighting Humayun on April 20, 1526.

    Shri ramshairBhaytanyohthjsya
    ShriShalivaan Ithi Pratthosya Putra|

    Tasya Shri Syam Singh Shithi Makutmani
    Mitra Sensch Putroh|
    Daneh Yudh Harihar CharnahMBhoj
    Puja Prathkatoh|| Yashogatha||

    (Gwalior ke Tomar PP 256)


    Vikramaditya had a younger Brother Ajit Singh. He was entrusted with
    the Agra Treasure by Ibrahim.

    The Tomars are Chandravanshi. This Vansh has 44 Villages, 40 miles
    from Delhi.

    They also have 84 villages near Gwalior. Most of these are Jat Tomars,
    but some are also Rajput Tomars.

    It is more than possible that that the Abu Ceremony by the Hattash
    Brahmins, some Kshatriyas was present who took this new Rajput Name.
    It is possible that at that time ether were some Jat Tomars present
    also, as happened with the Parihar, Parmar, Chaphan (Chauhan), and
    Shukla (Solanki).



    AithSimanantreh Kale Kanykubjoh Dvijotham:
    Abu-dh Shikarn Pratpthya Brhamohyathakaroth|
    Ved Mantra Prabhavaach Jaacha Chatohvari- Kshatriya|
    Pramarsamvedhya: Chaphaniyajurvid
    Triveddyastha Shuklohtharva sa Pariharak|

    ( Bhavishaya Purana Prathisarag Parv
    Prtahm Khand Adhyaya

    Kushwaha Kshatryohtpati – Mimansa pp 233)


    16. Tomars of Garhwal.

    Diwan Shaymdas Tomar gave his introduction to PrithviShah as "I am
    Tomar", and the saying was
    "Tunwar Maan Diwan hi Janeh".


    17. The Palam- Bawli Inscription.

    || Shri Ganptahyeh Nam|| Om Nameh: Shivaya|

    Srjthi Rakshthi Sanharuih Yastiryathi,
    Prathibodhyati Praja|

    Sa Bhavtohn Bhaktaphroh Haroh Bahvtu
    Bhavuk chintithdahyak: || I ||

    SamrajyasyaBhishek Shriyammardhuni Yasya Mudhidhan
    Prayahtah Kurvanthi Tarangeh Virrath Vichalaccha _

    Martvam Prathi|Shubranshu malavyamathisithchatrachaytraman
    Manathiprabhavoh Bhavtu s Bhavtanh Shankar Shankrishnu;|| 2||

    Abhoji Tomardahdoh Chauhanehsthnantar|

    Hariyanakbhurehsha Shakendra: Shahshtyehsdhunah|| 3||

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to ravichaudhary For This Useful Post:

    ygulia (November 27th, 2012)

  9. #8

    Tomars are mostly Jats.

    I want to tell something.Now a days A Sindhya family of Gwalior is Rajput.But we know Mahadji Sindhya was related with a Barber family.Like it Maharaja Ranjeet singh was a Jat but he called him a Rajput.there are so many example this type of tendency.Tomars newer said them Rajputs.Most of them came into Jat community and other in Rajputs. In Nepal we know Gorkhas in power but know Royal family of them say them Rajputs.Jatts of patiyala Royal family[Amarinder singh] say them Rajput now a days and tell that they are related with bhatti Rajputs.

  10. #9
    .

    I just came across this old thread in Jat History section. Interestingly, the debate over Tomar gotra has been the subject of many threads. At one place, I had also mentioned that freedom fighter Ram Prasad Bismil also happened to be a Jat, whose ancestors migrated from 'Tomardhar' area which, at one time, was part of erstwhile Gwalior state in British era (now in Murena district of UP). Dacoit Man Singh, Bhup Singh and other bandits also hailed from the twin villages of Ruhar and Bardai of Tomardhar, from where the grandfather of Ramprasad Bismil had migrated to Shahjehanpur.
    .
    Last edited by dndeswal; November 26th, 2012 at 11:39 PM.
    तमसो मा ज्योतिर्गमय

  11. The Following User Says Thank You to dndeswal For This Useful Post:

    cooljat (December 2nd, 2012)

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by ravichaudhary View Post
    This History of the Tomars is discussed.

    The extract below and the associated messages will give readers a better insight

    Ravi Chaudhary

    ********

    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JatHistory/message/2819


    History of the Jat Tomars(4)- Gwalior
    .................................................. .....................
    (b) Ajit Singh ran away from Agra after it was besieged by Humayan
    after the battle of Panipat. He took his family and tried to escape
    with the treasure. The Kohinoor diamond was in that treasure. The
    value of that diamond even in those days was considered to be so high,
    that the entire population of the world could be fed for two and a
    half days.

    This Koh –I Noor (the peak of the sky) went from Ajit Singh Tomar to
    Humayun in 1526, and in 1536 from Humayun to Shajehan, and from
    Shajehan to Muhammad Shah
    , then to Ahmad Sah Abdalli in 1757 CE, then to Shahujah, and then to
    Ranjit Singh. It then went into the hands of the British.
    Chaudhary Sahib,

    For very interesting information on Tomar History you deserve our congratulations.

    I would like to point out that the chronological order of the change of hands of the Kohinoor at second stage i.e. in 1536 from Humayun to Shahjahan seems to be contrary to facts as Between Humanyun and Shah Jahan there is a very long gap. According to the Mughal chronological order Humayun died in 1556 then Akbar ruled from 1556 to 1605 and Jahangir from 1605 to 1627. Only then Shahjahan came on scene as ruler in 1627 and was dethroned by his youngest son Aurangzeb in 1658.

    Likewise, Shahjahan could not give it to Muhammadshah who became emperor in 1719 A..D. whereas Shahjahan had been dethroned in 1657 and expired in 1666.

    So the fact needs recheck please.

  13. #11
    I deserve no accolades.

    Respect is due to Harihar Dwivedi,who did the research and wrote the book- ' Tomaron ka Ithihas'. It was quoted by Mahendra Shastri el al in their book- Jat ithihas

    They deserve the credit.

    I tried to get a copy of the book some years ago.

    I could not succeed

    Perhaps other members could try.

    It would a welcome resource.


    I have reproduced the information as best as I could from Hindi to English. There may be errors in my work.

    Broadly the Kohinoor is supposed ot have gone from the hands of the Tomar family to the Muslim Mughals and from them to others.

    The writer may well have not been accurate in the sequence and dates.

    The story does not appear incorrect.

    What should also be interesting is the compromises made by a branch of this family with the invaders and they continued to serve under them.

    The line did not die out.

    Then too we have the branch that supposedly went to Western U.P and set up the Tomar Khap


    Warm regards

    Ravi Chaudhary

  14. #12
    This may the same or another book


    Dwivedi, Harihar Niwas, Delhi ke Tomar (736-1193 AD), Vol. I, Hindi, Gwalior, 1973

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by ravichaudhary View Post
    continued
    Quote Originally Posted by ravichaudhary View Post



    © Narsingh Dev resided mostly in the Gujarat Courts,

    (d) Mitrasen Tomar was appointed the Governor of Rohitash Fort in
    Bihar. In 1661 he constructed the Mitraeshwar Mahadev (Shiv) temple.

    (e) Shajehan appointed Sangram Singh Tomar as the governor of the fort
    of Narwar; He erected a victory pillar there in 1631?

    (15) Maansingh ruled from 1486 CE to 1516 CE.

    (16) Vikramaditya was the last independent ruler of Gwalior. He was
    besieged by Ibrahim and by Humayun. The siege continued for five or
    six years. Khadakrai wrote:

    "Ghere reh Varsh Cheh: Panch theji Gaye aisohn
    Ghero aayi panchu pavan Nah NAD Pad Jaayi"

    The Tomar raja had made such arrangements inside his fort that for six
    years he held off Ibrahim and Humayun. Vikramaditya had received much
    wealth and a large army from his father, and because of this his
    fortress was impregnable. He died in battle in the plains of Panipat
    fighting Humayun on April 20, 1526.

    Shri ramshairBhaytanyohthjsya
    ShriShalivaan Ithi Pratthosya Putra|

    Tasya Shri Syam Singh Shithi Makutmani
    Mitra Sensch Putroh|
    Daneh Yudh Harihar CharnahMBhoj
    Puja Prathkatoh|| Yashogatha||

    (Gwalior ke Tomar PP 256)
    Vikramaditya had a younger Brother Ajit Singh. He was entrusted with
    the Agra Treasure by Ibrahim.

    ………………
    ( Bhavishaya Purana Prathisarag Parv
    Prtahm Khand Adhyaya
    Kushwaha Kshatryohtpati – Mimansa pp 233)|


    Friend,

    In the above mentioned description about alliance of Humayun and Ibrahim and Gheroa of Gwalior for six years is totally ahistorical.

    If at all Ibrahim besieged Gwalior for such a long time and captured it then also there is no question of giving charge of Kohinoor to him.

    Babur killed Ibrahim Lodhi in the battle of Panipat fought on 26th April, 1526 and even if it were agreed that Vikramaditya Tomar participated in it he too might have been killed at the same time.
    Humayun appeared on the scene only after the death of Babur when both Ibrahim Lodhi and Vikramditya Tanwar were no more.
    It means, the description is juxtaposition of facts. It needs further verification of source material to make it more authentic and flawless.


    This is a challenge as well as opportunity for the scholars to take help from this book to delve deeper in the subject and bring out the historical facts.

    Thanks
    Last edited by DrRajpalSingh; November 27th, 2012 at 09:20 AM.

  16. #14
    Dear Dr. Singh

    Why do we not try and get the original book by Mr. Dwivedi and see what it says.

    A better translation than what I did will also be most useful.

    I have no views on the subject at present, except in as far as the identity of the Gwalior Tomars as Jats , when they came to Gwalior, and later started to take on the 'Rajput' appendage.

    Ravi Chaudhary

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by badal24 View Post
    I want to tell something.Now a days A Sindhya family of Gwalior is Rajput.But we know Mahadji Sindhya was related with a Barber family.Like it Maharaja Ranjeet singh was a Jat but he called him a Rajput.there are so many example this type of tendency.Tomars newer said them Rajputs.Most of them came into Jat community and other in Rajputs. In Nepal we know Gorkhas in power but know Royal family of them say them Rajputs.Jatts of patiyala Royal family[Amarinder singh] say them Rajput now a days and tell that they are related with bhatti Rajputs.
    Friend,

    Before posting your views on such sensitive issues, kindly ensure their correctness first by checking the sources.

    Regards

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by ravichaudhary View Post
    Dear Dr. Singh

    Why do we not try and get the original book by Mr. Dwivedi and see what it says.

    A better translation than what I did will also be most useful.

    I have no views on the subject at present, except in as far as the identity of the Gwalior Tomars as Jats , when they came to Gwalior, and later started to take on the 'Rajput' appendage.

    Ravi Chaudhary
    Chaudhary Sahib,

    Kindly do not take my points as criticism of your translation or your views on the topic.

    The book under reference in itself is a useful addition to our knowledge.

    In fact it is to your credit that you have brought the original book on this stage where its short comings or errors/lapses could be plugged.

    Thanks

  19. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by dndeswal View Post
    .

    I just came across this old thread in Jat History section. Interestingly, the debate over Tomar gotra has been the subject of many threads. At one place, I had also mentioned that freedom fighter Ram Prasad Bismil also happened to be a Jat, whose ancestors migrated from 'Tomardhar' area which, at one time, was part of erstwhile Gwalior state in British era (now in Murena district of UP). Dacoit Man Singh, Bhup Singh and other bandits also hailed from the twin villages of Ruhar and Bardai of Tomardhar, from where the grandfather of Ramprasad Bismil had migrated to Shahjehanpur.
    .
    Deswalji,

    Very interesting point raised by you that inhabitants of Tomardhar around Murena in modern day M P state are Tomar Jats. It would be a favour to us if you could throw more light on this aspect of their history.

    Perhaps, Bismil's parents left the profession that their fore fathers used to do and adopted Purohitgiri or priesthood and came to be known as Brahmins as has been shown in his Biographical notes by you. Likewise when the Rajput ascendancy in Political affairs of the country increased, some of the Tomar Jats started to style themselves as Rajputs to earn social higher status. Therefore, I do not doubt the verocity of the claim made by some of my friends that they were Tomar Jats from Delhi Region.

    However, this fact needs some corroborative evidence in the form of original sources. So, you will appreciate that the matter needs thorough investigation and support of irrefutable evidence before we could finally say 'Yes' Man Singh Tomar was a Jat and nothing else but a Jat.

    Shri Burdak ji could perhaps elicit more information on the issue by using his influence on the people of the area as he has links and vast experience of staying in M P.

    Thanks and regards

  20. #18
    I don't know much in detail. But I know one thing...The Tomar's of Desh Khap..having 84 villages and All of them are proud Jat...and I'm one among them.
    Vivek Tomar
    Be Happy With Every Moment

  21. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by tarzon View Post
    I don't know much in detail. But I know one thing...The Tomar's of Desh Khap..having 84 villages and All of them are proud Jat...and I'm one among them.
    Friend,

    It would be interesting to learn if you could throw some light on any aspect of the functioning of Tomar's of Desh Kap of 84 villages.

    Thanks.

  22. #20
    Tomars in MP are not Jats. They are Rajputs. I have got a copy of Book by Dwivedi on Tomar History.
    Laxman Burdak

  23. The Following User Says Thank You to lrburdak For This Useful Post:

    DrRajpalSingh (December 1st, 2012)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •