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Thread: Jats in Ukraine

  1. #1

    Jats in Ukraine

    The encyclopaedia britanica, 2001 has given the following version about pre history of Ukraine.
    “From prehistoric times, migration and settlement patterns in the territories of present-day Ukraine varied fundamentally along the lines of three geographic zones. The Black Sea coast was for centuries in the sphere of the contemporary Mediterranean maritime powers. The open steppe, funneling from the east across southern Ukraine and toward the mouth of the Danube, formed a natural gateway to Europe for successive waves of nomadic horsemen from Central Asia. And the mixed forest-steppe and forest belt of north-central and western Ukraine supported a sedentary agricultural population, linked by waterways to northern and central Europe. The marchlands of these zones were frequent areas of both military conflict and cultural transmission.Beginning in the 7th-6th centuries BC, numerous Greek colonies were founded on the northern coast of the Black Sea, in the Crimea, and along the Sea of Azov; these Hellenic outposts later came under the hegemony of the Roman Empire. During the 1st millennium BC the steppe hinterland was occupied successively by the Cimmerians, Scythians, and Sarmatians. These peoples, all of Iranian stock, maintained commercial and cultural relations with the Greek colonies.A period of great migrations began with the descent of the Goths from the Baltic region into Ukraine about AD 200. They displaced the Sarmatians, but their own power was broken about 375 by the invading Huns from the east, who were followed in the 5th-6th centuries by the Bulgars and Avars. Between the 7th and 9th centuries, the Ukrainian steppe formed part of the Turkic Khazar kaganate, a mercantile empire centred on the lower Volga River. Khazar control of the steppe was breached in the late 9th century by the Magyars. The Pechenegs, who followed, dominated much of southern Ukraine in the 10th and 11th centuries, and they were in turn succeeded by the Polovtsians (Cumans). Throughout this period of nomadic invasions, only a few of the Greek settlements in the Crimea, notably Chersonesus, maintained a precarious existence, relying on the support of the Byzantine Empire.”
    I .Sara, a Canadian barrister and solicitor has pointed out that the recent excavations in the Ukraine and Crimea provide visible links of Jats and Scythians.
    Cap. Dalip Singh Ahalawat has reported in an article published in Jat Samaj Patrika (Oct./Nov.1991) that Jats had ruled in Scythia and Central Asia. He has given a list of about 70 Jat gotras who have ruled over there. Details can be found in his book “Jat Viron ka Itihaas.”
    According to a survey report by http://www.joshuaproject.net there are about 32000 Jats in Ukraine and their language is Jatali. If jats are there some of gotras pointed by Cap. Dalip Singh Ahalawat must be still there. One of ruler gotra pointed out by him is JAKHAR. I found on internet search that similar surname in Ukraine is ZAKHAROV. It is a matter of research if they are same or different. Surname Zakharov is masculine and Zakharova is faminine. Some names seem to be derived from Sanskrit such as, …Svetlana, Kupriyanova, Ushakova, Vakulenko, Veronika, Navratilova etc.
    regards,
    Laxman Burdak

  2. #2
    Cap. Dalip Singh has mentioned following Jat gotras who ruled over Scythia and Central Asia in his book "jat veeron ka itihaas"-
    1.Saka 2.barbar 3.shivi 4.palhav 5.chol 6.kamboj 7.valhik 8.pandyav 9.rishik 10.tushar 11.kundu 12.nagvans 13.kalkhande 14.kang 15.darad 16.sihag 17.her 18.bhullar 19.dahiya 20.maurya-maur 21.nav-nauvar 22.yaudhey 23.jakhar 24.punia 25.gaur 26.nag 27.kalkal 28.kuru-kaurav 29.tomar-tanwar 30.tur 31.tatran 32.maan 33.ven 34.ojhalan 35.kashyap 36.kaswan 37.kuran 38.pahalvi 39.sandharan 40.odharan 41.hans 42.dabas 43.chahal 44.sikarwar 45.chhina 46.gil 47.goojar 48.johal 49.lamba 50.chhikara 51.ghangas 52.nohvar 53.puruya-paurav 54.ahalawat 55.kataria 56.khatkar 57.rathi 58.sindhu 59.chalukya 60.gulia 61.kuntal-khoontal 62.khasa 63.tangal 64.utar 65.seoran 66.mirdha-mira 67.varaich 68.shishi 69.dagar 70.bhadra.
    The jatland members of above gotras may try to find their roots of origin.
    regards,
    Laxman Burdak

  3. #3
    Laxman Burdak (Jul 05, 2003 03:20 a.m.):
    Cap. Dalip Singh has mentioned following Jat gotras who ruled over Scythia and Central Asia in his book "jat veeron ka itihaas"-
    1.Saka 2.barbar 3.shivi 4.palhav 5.chol 6.kamboj 7.valhik 8.pandyav 9.rishik 10.tushar 11.kundu 12.nagvans 13.kalkhande 14.kang 15.darad 16.sihag 17.her 18.bhullar 19.dahiya 20.maurya-maur 21.nav-nauvar 22.yaudhey 23.jakhar 24.punia 25.gaur 26.nag 27.kalkal 28.kuru-kaurav 29.tomar-tanwar 30.tur 31.tatran 32.maan 33.ven 34.ojhalan 35.kashyap 36.kaswan 37.kuran 38.pahalvi 39.sandharan 40.odharan 41.hans 42.dabas 43.chahal 44.sikarwar 45.chhina 46.gil 47.goojar 48.johal 49.lamba 50.chhikara 51.ghangas 52.nohvar 53.puruya-paurav 54.ahalawat 55.kataria 56.khatkar 57.rathi 58.sindhu 59.chalukya 60.gulia 61.kuntal-khoontal 62.khasa 63.tangal 64.utar 65.seoran 66.mirdha-mira 67.varaich 68.shishi 69.dagar 70.bhadra.
    The jatland members of above gotras may try to find their roots of origin.
    regards,
    Below is a link from a russian page. Apparently Molakan people are very intruiged by a jat village in haryana. The associated link and the mention is halway down the page
    http://gecko.gc.maricopa.edu/clubs/russian/Molokan/news/index_2001.htm

  4. #4
    Good search Vivek.Jats live in Maldives also.It is a matter of research if the residents of Malokan village are connected with Maldives. The link gives description which is reproduced below-
    " A town named Malokan in India Added Dec 10
    District Jhajjar (Haryana), India -- "about eight hundred years ago ... There was a town named Malokan in the east of present Jhajjar city, mostly inhabited by Jats. ... Malokan was also among there ill-fated villages. Having left their homes and belongings, the residents of Malokan started living here and there. ....Brave Chajju Jat, resident of Malokan village made an appeal to Emperor Shabuddin Gori to rehabilitate the village. Malokan village had fought bravely to defend the country against the Goris........"
    *******************************
    copied from the URL-http://gecko.gc.maricopa.edu/clubs/russian/Molokan/news/index_2001.htm
    Laxman Burdak

  5. #5
    I tried to search my own surname BURDAK on internet. To my surprise I found that there are 80 BURDAKs in MY FAMILY PEOPLE FINDER website. The URL address of this site is-
    http://reunite.myfamily.com
    I also found that Mr. IVAN BURDAK is a great leader of some party of Ukraine. There are surnames in Ukraune such as BURDAKOV meaning son of Burdak and BURDAOVA meaning daughter of Burdak.
    Can anybody help to link BURDAK in India and those in Ukraine?????
    Laxman Burdak

  6. #6
    Very interesting. I dont know much about it but I have Russian friends who tell me Guliya is a common surname in Russia and Ukraine.

    Rohit Guliya
    Rohit Guliya - Jat's the way i like it

  7. #7
    Bhai,

    Tum Ukraine aur bhagwan jaane kin kin ki baat karan laag rey ho and we don't even bother to go into depth when it comes to Jats from our own subcontinent mainly Jat clans from Pakistan and Jat clans which claim Pathan descent. We all fall over each other to claim European lineage even if it means clutching at any linguistic similarity that might accidentally crop up between us and some guys in Ukraine. Is it a post colonial hangover - "gori chamdi ka chaska". We should first find out about our immediate Jat brothers rather transporting ourselves rather miraculously from Rohtak bus stand to Kiev airport.

    Regards
    Satbir.

  8. #8
    Thank you Satbir ji,
    As per your suggestion I searched JAT surname on the website-
    http://reunite.myfamily.com
    I found 63 entries with JAT surname, out of which about 35 are persons with Muslim first names. We have large no of Jats in Pakistan, Iran,Iraq etc.
    we are trying to search truth. We are simply interested in knowing where jats in Ukraine have come from. Do you mean to say they have gone from India ?
    Laxman Burdak

  9. #9
    Guliya ji,
    You are right. Your surname can be searched on the website I suggested.
    http://reunite.myfamily.com

    You will find that there are 150 entries of GULIA surename. Most of them have English first names.The list of searched names gives the states to which they belong. You will find much more entries on the website-
    http://www.ancestry.com
    This may help to find some links.
    regards,
    Laxman Burdak

  10. #10
    I am not aware of the history part. But I was in Ukraine for two years from 1994-96 and observed that most of the people behave like jats i.e. to try to do things by muscle power without using brains. I used to call them white jats unconscious of the fact they could really be jats.
    JAT - For Justice And Truth

  11. #11
    Laxman ji,

    If at all there is a connection between Jats and some Ukrainians, then I guess it might have something to do with our Scythian past i.e. Scythian tribes which inhabited the northern shores of the Balck Sea dispersed in all directions and some of them for sure moved into the Ukraine because of the evident geographical proximity but I think talking of a blood relation between them and us at this juncture might be too far fetched an idea. It, in all probability, has got lost in the mists of time. Present day Jats of Haryana, Punjab, Rajasthan, Western UP and Pakistan are the same stock and much more ethnically related but mind you, ethnically and not necessarily religiously. Anyways, nice work by you.

    Regards.

  12. #12
    Dear Gulia Ji,
    I am giving here ALL RUSSIAN FAMILY TREE SURNAMES LIST which is available on the website with URL address-
    http://www.vgd.ru/ENGLISH/g.htm
    This search shows that your surname GULIA is very much there in the surname list connected with Russian names. The word GULIA has no equivalent word in Sanskrit are hindi. It means it must have some meaning in Russian languages. Now you can do further research to find out the origin of GULIA surname. Any Jatland member in Russia can help.

    Dear Satbir ji,

    Thanks for your nice suggestions on links between Jats and Ukraine. The Scythian past theory is also evident from the details of pre History of Ukraine which I have given in the beginning of this thread.
    Regards,
    Laxman Burdak

  13. #13
    Hi Mr. Burdak,

    To me your name sounds very Turkish. Best Wishes,

  14. #14
    Hi Sunny ji,Thank you !!!
    Your post gave an idea to search my surname BURDAK in Turkey. I found it is there in Turkey. I found one news in Turkish Daily News about one leader named Ridvan Burdak. But still I do not know the meaning of my surname and its origin. Can you help me ???
    Laxman Burdak

  15. #15
    There are also the Bur-yats towards Siberia

    The Y and J are interchangeable

    Ravi
    the future belongs to those who appreciate their past

    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JatHistory/

  16. #16
    Hi Laxman,

    I really don’t know how to help you more, but India saw an incursion of White Huns (modern Panjabis) and Ghaznavids (Turks). Even your features are Turkish or Turko-Iranian. Regards,

  17. #17
    Dear Mr Budhrak

    THanks for the information

    Rohit GUliya
    Rohit Guliya - Jat's the way i like it

  18. #18
    Sehrawat ji,
    It is nice to know that you have been to Ukraine. Can you through more light on life and culture of people of Ukraine. Interestingly I posted one message on Some message board of Ukraine region. I got immegiate response. one fellow provided me very useful informations and some websites. Those people seem to have great interest in India.
    regards,
    Laxman Burdak

  19. #19
    Burdakji,

    Though I had not much interaction with the local populace due to language handicap (very few 0.01% of the people knew English then) When I was there, their economy was in shambles and they were trying to recover from the shock of disintegration of USSR. Though the older people love India very much, the younger lot love the yuppi culture and wish to run away to America and Europe. The older people are hard working, though rash and get easily provoked like a typical jat, they love to drink home made vodka and dance, whereas the younger ones love whisky and all other western ways of life. The bottomline is that when I was there the country was in transition from communism to democracy, the people love India and some have even married Indians, due to crumbling of USSR their economy was in bad shape and the people were on the verge of starvation, hence could do anything for money.

    However, one thing I liked about them is they are very disciplined. Though there was scarcity of food items, they always qued up to buy whenever anything was on sale and the ladies with children were allowed to buy first, knowing fully well that the stock might not last till the last person. Women and older people are respected. People travelling by public transport vacate seats for ladies and older people.

    Like in India, the older ladies of Ukraine, don't eat before their husbands and the husbands after having meals thank their wives for food, on each occasion no matter how many they eat during a day. Milk, butter and matha/lassi/seet (khimir in Russian) is an important part of their diet besides non-veg.

    Almost everyone is either an artist or accompalished sportsperson. It is part of their educational curriculum. They love Hindi and will try to learn it at every possible opportunity. In fact my wife used to teach Hindi in a local school on honorary basis and she had about 100 students, including some teachers as well as the Principal of the school.
    JAT - For Justice And Truth

  20. #20
    Thanks Sehrawat ji for your valuable information about the life and culture of Ukrainian people. I have been interested in Ukraine and Russia since beginning. I have been studying Russian literature. But with the disintegration of USSR it was stopped. I have got with me FOLK TALES OF UKRAINE. It tallies with the version given by you. There are cultural and behavioral similarities of Ukrainian people with Jats. Some of the folk tales are same as in PANCH TANTRA.
    Can you tell more on the CASTE SYSTEM in Ukraine?
    About marriage system??
    And Social Harmony ???

    regards,
    Laxman Burdak

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