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Thread: Dara Singh - Is He a Jat?

  1. #1

    Dara Singh - Is He a Jat?

    Dara Singh, the president of the Jat Sabha - is he a Jat or a Sikh. Why do we have a Sikh as the president. Couldn't we find someone else.

  2. #2
    Dear Satbir,

    Whatever little I know of religion, a Sikh is one who is supposed to have six 'K's like Kesh, kada, karpan, kanghee, kachaa,...one more i forget..Dara Singh does not have any of these. Moreover, if Mr Dara Singh accepts himself as Jat, what makes you think that he is not Jat ? Just his father being a Sikh look alike does not bestwo the sikh religion on Mr Dara ingh. Many people in his father's genration used to keep beard and turbon..Leave aside anything, its the personal belief what matters the most. Dara Singh is 100% jat and so is Dharmendra..and any woman married to a Jat is also 100% jat...

    Rajendra

  3. #3
    Dara Singh is purely a JATT SIKH....

    5 "Kakkes" as defined in Holy Guru Granthh sahib.....Kesh. kada.kangha,kachha and kirpan... ( Nanak naan chadhey kalaan .. tere dware sarbar da bhalla)


    I will really appreciate if he would ( had) helped Hindu JATS........

    Baki poiltics..OR teekh tekh laga liyo :-)
    Grow Trees...Save Trees...Save EARTH !!!

  4. #4
    Dear Rajendra ji,

    Forgive me if I'm wrong but anyone who keeps the five 'k's you've mentioned is a Khalsa. The Khalsa are a purified form of the Sikhs and the most militant of them. So, your assertion that since Dara Singh does not sport any of these, he automatically becomes a Hindu Jat, is, well, not true at all. Going by your logic, the present generation of Jat Sikhs (most of whom are clean shaven) should all be Hindu Jats. This assumption, I'm afraid, is ludicrous. They still go to Gurudwaras and most of them have not even seen the inside of a mandir. They still marry into Jat Sikhs only. I fail to understand as to how we can call them Hindu Jats by any stretch of imagination. Since I'm a Grewal Jat and there are a large number of Grewal Jats among the Sikhs as well, I've interacted very closely with them. You'll be surprised to know that most of them look down upon the Hindu religion and being called a Hindu is almost derogatory in a Jat village in Punjab. So, assuming that Dara Singh and Dharmendra have renounced their religion is self-delusional. They became clean shaven only because their profession demanded it i.e. wrestling and acting. In any case, any Jat who gives up his religion as easily as you think, is not a Jat at all, whether Sikh or Hindu. So the question remains that couldn't we find someone from Haryana as president of the Jat Mahasabha.

    Regards.

  5. #5
    Satbir

    Why is finding someone from Haryana, so important ?

    Is Haryana the homeland for all Jats?. It was only creaated in 1968, and until then was part of Punjab.

    Many jats adopted Sikhism, as you may know.

    If the jat becomes a sikh, does that stop him /her from being a Jat ?

    I would think not

    ravi
    the future belongs to those who appreciate their past

    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JatHistory/

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  7. #6
    Satvir Ji,
    First of all, Jats are Hindus, Sikhs and Muslims
    Let me give some background of Dara Singh Ji.
    In 1980 (approx) Jat Samaj was started in Mumbai. Founding members where very smart people. We have cream of the community in Mumbai, successful in business, services in civil and armed forces.
    They said we do not mind working, but we need Leaders and the Money to run the samaj.
    One of founding members I know is Dr (Col) Prem Singh. They did not have people of high profile from their own stock in Mumbai. Dharmendra's family is Arya samaji. His mother helped to build the samaj. They started a annual cultural programme "Sitaron Ki Sham presented by Jat Samaj". Because of Dara Singh ji and Dharam Ji, we started getting free top Heros and Heroins for our programme. We bought office for Jat Samaj in Santa Criz. Haryana Samaj which existed for 100 years did not have their own ofiice till I left India in 1988.
    Also initially we used to call politicians as chief guest for our cultural programmes, but we found them useless because they always tried to divide the samaj members on party lines. Also in the dancing and singing programme no body was intested to see faces of politicians, because people who bought tickets where 95% non jats, the biggest hall of Mumbai used be house full.
    Another smart thing done by us (I was one of them), we declared Dara singh Ji as life long president. Because of him we where alloted land in New Mumbai also.
    Then people from Rajesthan and Haryana also started calling Dara singh and Dharmendra to their area for reservation for jats. Finally Dara Singh was made president of All India Jat Mahasabha. Dara Singh Ji was made member of Rajya Sabha. Dharmendra became a Lok Sabha from Bikaner.
    Punjabi samaj in Mumbai did not take help of these great people because they have so many successful people from Punjab. They can get thousands of Dara Singh, we had none.
    We starting calling top business people as chief guest from Mumbai itself like film industry.
    They never created problems for the samj.
    Let me tell u successful people are like big trees (they will give sheetal chaya), they do not belong one caste (they belong to all casts). they will help those who need help from them.
    Because of these great souls, we do not have election problems. Now tell me what is harm
    Regards

    -------------------------------------------
    Satbir Grewal (Sep 26, 2004 04:35 a.m.):
    Dara Singh, the president of the Jat Sabha - is he a Jat or a Sikh. Why do we have a Sikh as the president. Couldn't we find someone else.

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  9. #7
    Ishwar ji and Ravi ji,

    Yo baat aapne pate ki kee se. Jats are Jats. Religion does not change blood. Point taken but I'd like to clarify something here. I am related to Dharmendra, although distantly and I can tell you for a fact that his family is not arya samaji but very much Sikh. His father, Kewal Krishan Deol, was under the influence of arya samaj but Dharmendra reverted
    back to Sikhism and even Bobby's marriage was conducted according to Sikh rites. His daughters are married to Jat Sikhs and in fact Bobby's marriage was at one point due with a Grewal Jat Sikh girl from England but Bobby declined because he didn't know the girl. He later went in for a love marriage as we all know. Dharmendra's ancestral village is near Sahnewal (distt Ludhiana) and he visits it very often. In fact he was earlier going to contest Lok Sabha elections from Patiala but that did not materialise since he had a very strong adversary, Maharani Parneet Kaur, Maharaja Amarinder Singh Sidhu's wife standing in his way. So, he then thought better of it and went to Rajasthan and wisely so because he won from Bikaner. As far as Dara Singh is concerned, he is a Jat Sikh form the Randhawa clan and a very devout Sikh by all accounts.

    Regards.

  10. #8
    Satbir

    So what is the big deal whether anyone is a sikh( follows the Guru's panth) or an arya samaji ( follows the Vedic dharam)?

    Anyone looking at the principles involved, can tell, that the same egalitarian priniciples are being followed- moksha is the objective, the concepts of atma, karma are recognized, idol worship is not reccomended etc

    Frankly I do not see waht the big deal is, beyond some people insisting on creating a defining boundary.

    A person is who he/she thinks he/she is.

    If you think you are a Jat , you are one, If you do not , you are not one.

    I prefer to look for common and unifying factors rather than divisive ones.


    Ravi
    the future belongs to those who appreciate their past

    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JatHistory/

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  12. #9
    I fully agree with Ravi in his last post and add further points;

    1. Going to Gurudwara does not make one sikh as lots of Hindus visit Gurudwaras regularly.

    2. If I agree with Satbir for a moment that the nature of profession demaned shaving the head and beared, now when Dharmendra does not act and Dara Singh does not wrestle, both could have gone back to their sikh appearances.

    3. Fact of the matter is that Jats have never been strictly religious and folllowed whatever fancied them..Had Dara Singh been a strict Sikh, he would have politely declined the honor of being President of Jata Mahasabha or any Jat organisation..

    Rajendra

  13. #10
    One could even suggest, that if he was a strict Sikh, and followed the Guru's Panth, and principles( not just appearances) he would have no problem, indeed would have welcomed, being part of the Jat Sabha.

    The problem becomes, that to create a social group, one first creates boundaries, the boundaries come first not later. Physical appearances, customs,etc are part of the defining acts(rules) of these boundaries.

    Gradually a separate group get created and develops its own identity.

    To overcome these self created boundaries, takes some awareness and effort.

    The Jat Sabha that Mr Lamba refers to is one such creation, a common identity overcoming differences of perception.

    In that Sabha, each person is free to follow his spiritual beliefs( another time honoured Jat concept).

    Thus Dara Singh was a true Jat, and became head of a Jat organization.

    I have a unifying bent of mind, and unashamedly will push that view

    Best regards


    ravi
    the future belongs to those who appreciate their past

    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JatHistory/

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  15. #11
    Ram Ram.

    Satbir,

    Why do you care so much about Dara Singh?
    OK - fine he might be of Jat Sikh origins, but he is with the BJP. That implies that he is hindutva-slanted and cares about hindus above silly ideas (e.g., pseudo "secularism").

    Here: read this link from two or so weeks ago:
    http://www.tribuneindia.com/2004/20040913/haryana.htm#15

    Dara Singh seeks job quota for Jats
    Our Correspondent

    Ambala, September 12
    Renowned wrestler, member of Rajya Sabha and a campaigner of the BJP Dara Singh while praising Prime Minister Manmohan Singh said he was not a dummy Prime Minister.

    Dara Singh was in Ambala to address a conference of the Haryana unit of the All-India Jat Maha Sabha. He is also holding the post of president of the maha sabha.

    Talking to mediapersons here today he said Manmohan Singh was an intelligent leader but due to the pressure of coalition partners he was not able to implement his policies properly.

    In reply to a question he said tainted MPs should not be inducted in the Cabinet and political parties should come forward to oppose this practice. He justified the protest of BJP in and outside Parliament in this regard. Defending the BJP leaders Lal Krishan Advani and Uma Bharti he said they were not the tainted leaders as the cases registered against them were of political nature whereas the tainted ministers of Congress were involved in criminal cases.

    Referring to the poor performance of Indian players in Athens he said the players had not been getting proper facilities and undue interference by politicians and bureaucrats in the selection of the players should be stopped.

    Briefing about the activities of Jat Maha Sabha he said Jats should be included in OBC list and should be given reservation in jobs.

    He said personally he favoured reservation in jobs but was of the view that promotions should be made on the basis of merit.

  16. #12
    Ravi ji,

    I couldn't agree with you more. We shouldn't be hunting for divisive issues. We can only hope that one day everybody's going to think along the same lines. This is a mature and wise approach to the whole issue.

    Having said that, what amuses me most is rajendra's illogical and self-consoling optimism about what he so fervently believes and wants others to do likewise.

    Oh yeah, rajendra ji, so you believe that Dara Singh and Dharmendra Deol are not Jat Sikhs but Sikhs who have renounced their own faith and fallen into the Hindu fold. Well, keep deluding yourself if it makes you feel any better. I've personally seen some of the most anti-Hindu, rabid Jat Sikhs who are absolutely clean shaven. Please go to some village in Punjab and you'll come to know exactly what I'm trying to say. Try telling them that they're Hindu and well....the less said the better.

    The most hilarious part of your post is the weird assumption that just because Dara Singh accepted the presidentship of the Jat Mahasabha, that immediately makes him a Hindu Jat. I've never encountered a more simplistic form of conclusive analysis. Have a heart, rajendra ji, don't snatch peoples' faith away just because it suits your point of view. How would it feel if somebody called you a musalman.

    As far as your contention goes that Jats have never followed any faith religiously, you'll have to pick up your history books and study Sikh militancy. It was almost entirely fuelled by Jat Sikhs. If you really want to put your theory to test, try and meet some of the fanatic Jat musalmans of Pakistani Punjab who cross over into India on behalf of the Let or the JeM. Good hunting and Good luck.

    Regards.

  17. #13
    Satbir

    What you are refering to is lack of knowledge and awareness.

    In some areas, yes, the term Hindu is denigrated and becomes a perjorative termterms

    That in itself is one of the factors I refer to ,when I talk of social groups being formed, and defining boundraies being created.

    Soon members of the group lose awareness and knowledge of Hinduism, or the Arya Samaj, - they only become terms to be used to abuse someone.

    Tragic is it not ?


    All this is telling you, on a broader level, is that a separate group is being/has been created.

    So people like yourself, or me or Rajendra,( and I agree with him here) have two choices,

    1) do we work to dispel the ignorance and darkness ( in these villages and elsewhere , you talk about)?

    or

    2) do we accept the diviseness born out of ignorance and propogate ignorance. ?

    You decide.
    the future belongs to those who appreciate their past

    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JatHistory/

  18. #14
    Ravi,

    You're spot on. Dara Singh's or Dharmendra's professing the Sikh faith does not make either of them less of a Jat. It's good that they're doing something for the Jat community. If they go to a Gurudwara to observe their faith, it should be none of our concern. As long as they speak for Jats as well it is quite alright with us. At least we've found some able leaders who can voice our concerns even if we required two Jat Sikhs to do it and mind you, they have a lot of political clout. I just hope Navjot Sidhu will show the same fervour for his Jat community.

    Regards.

  19. #15
    Little drops do an ocean make
    the future belongs to those who appreciate their past

    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/JatHistory/

  20. #16
    Satbir Grewal (Sep 27, 2004 10:03 a.m.):
    Ravi ji,

    I couldn't agree with you more. We shouldn't be hunting for divisive issues. We can only hope that one day everybody's going to think along the same lines. This is a mature and wise approach to the whole issue.

    Having said that, what amuses me most is rajendra's illogical and self-consoling optimism about what he so fervently believes and wants others to do likewise.

    Oh yeah, rajendra ji, so you believe that Dara Singh and Dharmendra Deol are not Jat Sikhs but Sikhs who have renounced their own faith and fallen into the Hindu fold. Well, keep deluding yourself if it makes you feel any better. I've personally seen some of the most anti-Hindu, rabid Jat Sikhs who are absolutely clean shaven. Please go to some village in Punjab and you'll come to know exactly what I'm trying to say. Try telling them that they're Hindu and well....the less said the better.

    The most hilarious part of your post is the weird assumption that just because Dara Singh accepted the presidentship of the Jat Mahasabha, that immediately makes him a Hindu Jat. I've never encountered a more simplistic form of conclusive analysis. Have a heart, rajendra ji, don't snatch peoples' faith away just because it suits your point of view. How would it feel if somebody called you a musalman.

    As far as your contention goes that Jats have never followed any faith religiously, you'll have to pick up your history books and study Sikh militancy. It was almost entirely fuelled by Jat Sikhs. If you really want to put your theory to test, try and meet some of the fanatic Jat musalmans of Pakistani Punjab who cross over into India on behalf of the Let or the JeM. Good hunting and Good luck.

    Regards.
    Dear Satbir,

    Some of the Jat sikhs you are talking, might be anti Hindus in general, but ceratinly not anti jats like you are appearing to be anti Sikh jats for the resons best known to you..Like you know of Jat Sikhs, I too have lots of friends among them and I know them as well as you probbaly. Most Hindu Jats are also anti brahamnas and anti banias...therefore I am not convinced by your logics..To me all Jats are Jats.. Now coming to muslim Jats, I have met many of them and they still maintain a speacial place for us hindu jats in their heart..Fighting for Pakisan is another thing for them...Two are different issues as far I can understand..

    Rajendra

  21. #17
    Dear all,
    I repeat successful people have no caste or religion, they belong to all, they help all.
    We love Dara Singh Ji and Dharam Ji and are proud of them.

    Here are two incidents:
    1. In Jaipur, Jat Sabha organised a blood donation camp and invited Dharam Ji, I tell u there where thousands of jat youths, Dharam Ji was so moved he had tears in his eyes. He said I cannot forget this incident in my life.
    2. Ones there was film shooting going on in beeds of Sikar district. When Dharam Ji was coming back on the way one old man gave hand. Dharam ji stopped the car and gave him lift, on the way old man said I am a jat and u should stay with me. Dharam Ji accepted the offer, he had dinner with bajre ki roti and sarsoo ka sag and slept there.
    He is down to earth and loves his community.

    Thanks Satbir bhai sahib, you are just supporting what I said , I just meant that till parents are there, they are family heads, we all jats follow that tradition.
    regards

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  23. #18
    Dara Singh has always identified himself with Hindu jats and is striving for the welfare of the community including getting the community declared backward and given reservation in government jobs, hence the raising of very question of his being a Sikh is very absurd. Similarly, Dharmender writes his name in all documents as "Dharmender Kewal Krishan". His father Master Kewal Krishan was a well known Arya Samaji of his area. It is proof enough that he is not repeat a sikh. His son Sunny's name is "Ajay Deol" and he also don't write Singh. Dharmender is a jat and that too a hindu jat. His wife also don't use the usual suffix "kaur" which is common with sikh ladies but simply writes 'Prakash'. He is not only a jat but a very brave jat. There is an incident involving him and the late Raj Kumar. Dharmender was a relatively new comer those days and the late Raj Kumar was an established star. In a party Raj Kumar after getting drunk was misbehaving with everybody but nobody had the courage to stop him. Emboldened he also pulled Dharmender's tie and uttered some unpleasant words to him. Infuriated Dharmender caught Raj Kumar by his collor and told him "aaj ke bad yeh mat bhulna ki main jat hoon". Similarly, the incident of his bashing up the journalist Devyani is well known. Only a jat is capable of doing that. Hence no doubts.

  24. #19
    Mr Sehrawat,

    From what I can make out, you're also one of those Alices in Wonderland. Where on earth did you come to know that Parkash Kaur does not write "Kaur" and Bobby and Sunny do not suffix Singh to their names. I hope it's not the "filmi kalian" type of reliable information. Going by your logic, even Navjot Sidhu is a Hindu Jat because he doesn't append 'Singh'. Give me a break, for heaven's sake. For your info, when Dharmendra filed his nomination from Bikaner, he filled his wife's name as Parkash Kaur. His son's names are Vijay Singh Deol and Ajay Singh Deol.

    Let me tell you something very interesting. My mother's goth is Deol and I happen to be related to Dharmendra so for God's sake don't give me those "filmi kalian" gossips. If you're such a film buff, you might've noticed that the Deol home production "Dillagi" started with recitations from the Sikh scriptures with the Khalsa flag fluttering and not bells chiming in a Mandir. So, relax. Gossip time is over. I didn't want to sound ostentatious by claiming any relation with Dharmendra but posts such as yours compelled me to reveal whatever distant relation I have with Dharam. By the way, his full name is Dharam Singh Deol. Besides this, if you want to meet a Hindu Jat in the Jat Sikh heartland of Punjab, you'll need a pair of very powerful lenses, a torch, a binocular and loads of hope. Jat villages of the Punjab had converted enmasse to Sikhism.

    Regarding Dara Singh, you seem to be suffering from bouts of fantasia. Since he is fighting for reservations for the Jat community, he's a Hindu Jat. Wow. Do you know that Sikh Jats in the districts of Hanumangarh, Anupgarh and Ganganagar in Rajasthan have been granted OBC status by the Rajasthan govt alongwith Hindu Jats. Mr Sehrawat, nice try but life is not so simple that you can twist facts to suit your fervent beliefs.

    Regards.

  25. #20
    Satbir Grewal (Sep 26, 2004 04:35 a.m.):
    Dara Singh, the president of the Jat Sabha - is he a Jat or a Sikh. Why do we have a Sikh as the president. Couldn't we find someone else.
    Dear Satbir,

    Your very question itself is contradictory. You are comparing Jat and Sikh and not the Hindu Jats and Sikh Jats..Let me ask you a simple question here based upon what you have posted;

    Does Jat Sabha constitution differentiate between Jats from various faiths?

    Let us carry forward the debate after you answer this..Let us ensure that we keep our debate to the point and do not call each other by names. We all accept that you know about Dharmendra and Dara Singh more than any other member here..

    Rajendra

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