Advice : a vice

[ashokkhatri]

Hi all,

you may find the title a bit surprising but you will know what I am talking about.


One thing that I find very annoying, to say the least, in India is people tend to advice you even if you have not asked for advice. It all begind with the question
"what should you do..." and then everyone becomes a self appointed moral, social and cultural policeman and starts advicing you...

you should do this... you should not do that... that doesn't look good.... thats not our culture...

people can't just mind their own business, take an example of a guy going with a gal and people will start staring .. and if they meet someone they know then .. well
well what can I say...

People just have this tendency to meddle in everyone's life, and you might think that I am overstreching it but if we accept this kind of behaviour then it goes on to
become stronger and the so called "society" tries to put more and more restrictions on you. You can see such behaviour by many such "cultural" organizations
which try to curb people's freedom. Be it Valentine's day or be it misbehaviuor with couples is in UP... you name it ...

there are numerous examples.... even on this site there are many threads which show this kind of tendency...

lets take an example of a thread where someone asked "SHOULD people who have gone abroad come back or not", now the problem with this questions is that now matter
the answer is YES or NO, there is an obligation attached to it, as it say "SHOULD?" If it was merely for informative purposes then the question would be
what are the criterias one can look at when deciding whether to come back or not... but no it was asked as if the people are obligated to do something....

there are other questions like "Should One go for Love marriage..?" or "Should someone do this.." " Should someone do that..." you can hear everywhere, common guys
India is a free country , let people decide what they want to do in their lives and as long as they are not harming anyone or breaking the law , why whould any one be
concerned.

Then there is the argument about "Culture' , well you know what , culture is made by people and not the other way round. Culture is a very dynamic thing and thats
the way it should be. Culture should be defined by people , how they do things, how they behave etc... it should not be some fixed idea in some people's mind
to which everone has to abide.

well the names may be different but this is basically intolerance and it finally leads to fanatisicm.

When I reached US , I often heard this phrase " free country..." and I thought what the heck India is also free, but I have realized that these people do understand what
freedom means. Not that I am all praises about firangs but hey you got to apreeciate the good things.

Another thing we hear is "Hamare time main to aisa hota tha... ab to pata nahi kya ho gaya hai..." , guys please understand times change and so do people to cope up with
the changing times. And I bet there are so many things that are much better than what used to be... please try to appreciate these.


So what is this all about... well i wanna know what people think on this issue, or any comments /concerns in general are welcome.....

Live and Let Live

Cheers

[devdahiya]

...........edited................................. ...

[sansanwalamit]

Ashok,

I totally agree with you, you have raised a very valid point and put it very well. I can totally relate to what you are saying and feel the same. Unfortunately, one still has to ask and struggle for some personal freedom. This takes a lot of energy and time, and this is one of the main reason behind some people leaving India and enjoying freedom in west. Hopefully, things will change with the wheels of time, but I am not sure whether I will be alive to see it.

Cheers,

Amit

[devdahiya]

Amit bhai if you say that there is no freedom in India and West offers you the ideal conditions in this regard, it will be defficult to digest. I think India is the most liberated nations in so many respects. May be you people sitting on the foreign land have a different perception of things...May be.....you have seen both....May be. But kindly don't say that you went to a firrang land in search of freedom....will you define that so called liberty for which you were so desperate to go abroad?...kindly do us honour Amit. I don't find this a mature statement at all.

[arunshamli]

Amit bhai if you say that there is no freedom in India and West offers you the ideal conditions in this regard, it will be defficult to digest. I think India is the most liberated nations in so many respects. May be you people sitting on the foreign land have a different perception of things...May be.....you have seen both....May be. But kindly don't say that you went to a firrang land in search of freedom....will you define that so called liberty for which you were so desperate to go abroad?...kindly do us honour Amit. I don't find this a mature statement at all.

Dev ji, Some people are like that only...they always find themself on the wrong side of the issue. jo log India ko gali dete hain...woh log USA me rahahte hue USA ko bhee gali dete hain...confused guys.....;)

ye log jab USA ke bare me bat karte hain toh USA ko gali dete hain and jab India ke bare me baat karte hain toh India ko glai dete hain.......matlab ye hai ke inehe toh kisi na kisi ko gali deni hai....

....kuch log hote hee aise hain....by nature;)

[sansanwalamit]

Amit bhai if you say that there is no freedom in India and West offers you the ideal conditions in this regard, it will be defficult to digest. I think India is the most liberated nations in so many respects. May be you people sitting on the foreign land have a different perception of things...May be.....you have seen both....May be. But kindly don't say that you went to a firrang land in search of freedom....will you define that so called liberty for which you were so desperate to go abroad?...kindly do us honour Amit. I don't find this a mature statement at all.

Dev Ji,

I agree with your statement that India is one of the most liberated nation in the world, but I would also add a caveat that unjustly liberated nation in the world. And this is because in India many people do not get full freedom, hence they do not recieve full scope and opportunities for their growth.
I will not be the perfect example to demonstrate how India limits the personal freedom resulting in limited scope and opportunities for growth for many. Fortunately, I am a male from a well to do and established family so things have been much easier for me.
But, everyone is not in the same situation, for example our women. In India men and women have different hours in a day, for a woman it is very difficult to stay out of her house after sunset. And still instead of making such environment safe, people start judging a woman's charcter pretty quickly if she stays out until late, whether for work or for anything else.
That was an example of lack of personal freedom, now some opinions and feelings behind "not so mature" statement.
In my opinion, in India people tend to have a lot of time at their disposal so they kill it by being interested in other people's life a bit too much. The moment they feel that someone is not like them or the majority they start causing difficult situation for that person. Still a person can exist but it is very energy and time consuming life. Another thing I notice in India and Indians is the speed at which they make judgements. For example, Mr. Arun Kumar so easily put me in the category of "confused" people. He should have realised that firstly I do not live in USA and secondly I do not swear either at India or Canada. I love both the places but just find Canada a more relaxing and liberated place.
Here discrimination is either not there, or if it is then it is subtle enough to go unnoticed unless you really look for it. Everyone has equal opportunities whether you are a male or a female or even transgendered. Just to brag about the liberties and equality Canada offers, it is one of the very few nation to give marriage right to their homosexual citizens. Now you might say how does this better the society , well then my answer is that society gets better only when everyone has equal freedom, and this is what Canadian government is trying to establish. In India we still have more obvious freedoms to bring in. I do see positive move towards a more free society in some pockets of Delhi, Bombay and Bangalore but thats it.

[devdahiya]

Dev Ji,

I agree with your statement that India is one of the most liberated nation in the world, but I would also add a caveat that unjustly liberated nation in the world. And this is because in India many people do not get full freedom, hence they do not recieve full scope and opportunities for their growth.
I will not be the perfect example to demonstrate how India limits the personal freedom resulting in limited scope and opportunities for growth for many. Fortunately, I am a male from a well to do and established family so things have been much easier for me.
But, everyone is not in the same situation, for example our women. In India men and women have different hours in a day, for a woman it is very difficult to stay out of her house after sunset. And still instead of making such environment safe, people start judging a woman's charcter pretty quickly if she stays out until late, whether for work or for anything else.
That was an example of lack of personal freedom, now some opinions and feelings behind "not so mature" statement.
In my opinion, in India people tend to have a lot of time at their disposal so they kill it by being interested in other people's life a bit too much. The moment they feel that someone is not like them or the majority they start causing difficult situation for that person. Still a person can exist but it is very energy and time consuming life. Another thing I notice in India and Indians is the speed at which they make judgements. For example, Mr. Arun Kumar so easily put me in the category of "confused" people. He should have realised that firstly I do not live in USA and secondly I do not swear either at India or Canada. I love both the places but just find Canada a more relaxing and liberated place.
Here discrimination is either not there, or if it is then it is subtle enough to go unnoticed unless you really look for it. Everyone has equal opportunities whether you are a male or a female or even transgendered. Just to brag about the liberties and equality Canada offers, it is one of the very few nation to give marriage right to their homosexual citizens. Now you might say how does this better the society , well then my answer is that society gets better only when everyone has equal freedom, and this is what Canadian government is trying to establish. In India we still have more obvious freedoms to bring in. I do see positive move towards a more free society in some pockets of Delhi, Bombay and Bangalore but thats it.



Ok Amit bhai.....thanks for the rejoinder. I wish not to take this debate further because i find it to vague a topic. It may sound a waste of time by Indians in the end......Ha..ha..ha. Good luck.

[arunshamli]

Dev Ji,

Another thing I notice in India and Indians is the speed at which they make judgements. For example, Mr. Arun Kumar so easily put me in the category of "confused" people. He should have realised that firstly I do not live in USA and


Amit sanaswal, yar maine toh sapne me bhee nahi socha thaa ke maine aapke ooper comment kar diya hai....

jaise aap generalized statement de rahe hai ke India ye or India woh....waise hee maine bhee generalized statement diya tha. aapne pata nahi q judgement le liya;) ke maine aapke bare me kaha hai. You know it very well that I was talking about the Indian living in USA ...and I fail to understand why you think I was talking about you....please do not ask further clarifications on this as I did not make any comment on you...it was a generalize statement.....I have no further interest in the topic...you guys can continue on.

[gaganjat]

Bhai kitte bhi ho aapnae mann ki karo.
Baki khani sab jhothi hai. Karan aalo tahi sari jagah freedom hai.

[ashokkhatri]

Bhai kitte bhi ho aapnae mann ki karo.
Baki khani sab jhothi hai. Karan aalo tahi sari jagah freedom hai.


That's true gagan, but as Amit said it takes too much time and energy if someone is not doing what he/she is "supposed" to do....

[jagmohan]

Dear Ashok,

I agree with Gagan.

It is important to understand the difference between 'Advice', 'Concern', 'Interference', Taking a Position', 'Commenting' and 'Expression' as applicable in a familial or societal environment.

I have heard my elders saying "In our Times", my son listens from me "In my Time" and I have no doubt that he would tell his children "In my Time". This is nothing new. Parents will be parents and children will be children. My mother is nearing 90 years in age and whenever I go home she says "Bette, maada hogyaa", even though she knows that I have put on extra pounds which are obvious. Such things come in the category of LOVE by elders and not interference.

The relatives would interfere only one allows them to. I don't recall any relative of mine ever trying to interfere in my affairs, leave alone dictating my life & actions. But there have been hundreds of occasions when I have gone to my relatives & friends for advice & help. I live in a joint family and being the elder son have certain rights & duties to perform. Whenever it was necessary to speak out for the better future of my younger brother's children, I have always taken a stand, liked or not liked is not the issue.

Now comes the question of freedom. If you FEEL FREE you are free even in a dictatorship, otherwise people are not free even in The US of A.

There is a very old thread about NRI's and their contributions. It is worth a read.

Regards,

JS Malik