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lrburdak
January 8th, 2007, 09:10 AM
Jatland is becoming an important source of information about Jats. We aim to make it an encyclopedia of Jats. Any Jat or any other person interested should be able to search and use informations on it for fair use. We do not have coyright policy for using the informations either from Jatland threads or from Jatland Wiki. There are requests to use info from here in articles or research purposes.

It is therefore proposed to make a copyright policy. Suggestions are invited from the members.

regards,

ranjitjat
January 8th, 2007, 08:03 PM
DEAR LAXMAN JI.
I DO NOT KNOW MUCH ABOUT COPY RIGHTS ON INTERNET.
BUT MOST OF THE MATERIAL HERE IN HISTORY & ON WIKI
FROM THKUR DESH RAJ
BS. DAHIYA
CAPT. DALIP SINGH AHLAWAT
LT. RAMSARUP JOON
DHARMPAL SINGH DUDEE- ME & OTHERS ARE ALREADY PUBLISHED IN HISTORY BOOKS . SO ALREADY COPY RIGHTS.
MOST OF MY POSTs ARE REF TO SOME BOOKS. SO THEY ARE ALSO COME UNDER COPY RIGHTs.
I DID NOT WRITE COPY RIGHT REF TO EVERY MY POST IN GOOD FAITH IN THE PAST AND MOST OF THEM GONE TO WIKI WITH OUT ANY REF OF MINE OR ANY WRITER.
I DO NOT MIND PERSONALLY. IF MY WRITING SERVE ANY NOBLE CAUSE. THEY CAN BE USED FOR RESEARCH WITH DUE REF & RESPECT.

vinodks
January 9th, 2007, 12:08 AM
Quite true.

-vinod


DEAR LAXMAN JI.
I DO NOT KNOW MUCH ABOUT COPY RIGHTS ON INTERNET.
BUT MOST OF THE MATERIAL HERE IN HISTORY & ON WIKI
FROM THKUR DESH RAJ
BS. DAHIYA
CAPT. DALIP SINGH AHLAWAT
LT. RAMSARUP JOON
DHARMPAL SINGH DUDEE- ME & OTHERS ARE ALREADY PUBLISHED IN HISTORY BOOKS . SO ALREADY COPY RIGHTS.
MOST OF MY POSTs ARE REF TO SOME BOOKS. SO THEY ARE ALSO COME UNDER COPY RIGHTs.
I DID NOT WRITE COPY RIGHT REF TO EVERY MY POST IN GOOD FAITH IN THE PAST AND MOST OF THEM GONE TO WIKI WITH OUT ANY REF OF MINE OR ANY WRITER.
I DO NOT MIND PERSONALLY. IF MY WRITING SERVE ANY NOBLE CAUSE. THEY CAN BE USED FOR RESEARCH WITH DUE REF & RESPECT.

ndahiya
January 9th, 2007, 09:52 AM
Jatland is becoming an important source of information about Jats. We aim to make it an encyclopedia of Jats. Any Jat or any other person interested should be able to search and use informations on it for fair use. We do not have coyright policy for using the informations either from Jatland threads or from Jatland Wiki. There are requests to use info from here in articles or research purposes.

It is therefore proposed to make a copyright policy. Suggestions are invited from the members.

regards,


my understanding is that the site already has an automatic copyright against "duplication" of content, but the idea to have a formal policy makes sense.

In the past, we've not had anyone ask us specifically (except in one instance, when they wanted to duplicate content and we advised them against it). However, instances where people have copied stuff verbatim from the forums and/or the wiki have been pointed out, but we've not had the ability or the time to enforce the copyright.

it might make sense for you to share your thoughts on how we should do this?

one possible model is as we have done on the wiki page on jat regiment, where we clearly reference the original source of the material (and we use it relatively unchanged). so we can allow ppl to use content by referencing us. obviously, for scholarly articles, people may be unlikely to use jatland as a source, but our policy can be consistent/use independent.

vinodks
January 11th, 2007, 11:18 AM
Sorry, but it didn't. Atleast to me. As far as history content goes (more or less the only referencable material), most of the articles have primary source from other books/journals which few dedicated members made available by typing/composing themselves. The idea should be to bring out, rather publicize, valuable historical references all over the internet even though it may involve pasting/discussion of these articles in other forums, non-Jat forums being important example of that section e.g. India-forum, where Ravi ji single handedly had kept alive Jat history discussion for last couple of years by using articles which were simulatenously pasted at 3-4 portals for wider audience (e.g. Jatland, juttworld, india-forum, yahoo-group and "you-know-what-website"). Focus should be on disseminating this information aggresively for "others" to take notice. Non-jats are anyway not allowed to discuss history here so what we have here is only our points of views on history which may be good enough for our satisfaction but not good enough for it to claim its deserved place in mainstream history of India. Rest on your wisdom.

-vinod



it might make sense for you to share your thoughts on how we should do this?

priti
January 12th, 2007, 02:44 AM
Ditto as Vinod....dont think we need copyright unless deshwalji wants to get quoted for his "Kissa Kadyan Khap" which definitely is a very ingenuine piece of work...

ravichaudhary
January 12th, 2007, 04:01 AM
Perhaps we could just concentrate on bringing out and publicizing the material for the benefit of our community.


We should be encouraging all to use the material freely - no restrictions.




Ravi Chaudhary

vijay
January 12th, 2007, 04:43 AM
Is History posts only deserve the Copyright Act ?

lrburdak
January 12th, 2007, 10:01 AM
It is important to have a policy of Copyrights on this site and mentioned on it. We have to decide:

1. Which contents are to be allowed to RE-use or copy freely without restriction ?

2. Which contents are allowed to RE-use or copy from Jatland with rstrictions ?

3. So far we have not been mentioning name of the author on articles in Jatland Wiki. Though it remains in its history page. Some people insist to write the name of editor on the page itself. Shall we permit it ?

My immediate broblem came from Wikipedia. I gave stub article about Alka Tomar. I receved following message from user ReyBrujo.
***************************
Alka Tomar

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia! We welcome and appreciate your contributions, such as Alka Tomar, but we regretfully cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from either web sites or printed material. This article appears to be a direct copy from

http://www.jatland.com/home/Alka_Tomar,

and therefore a copyright violation. The copyrighted text has been or will soon be deleted.

If you believe that the article is not a copyright violation, or if you have permission from the copyright holder to release the content freely under the GNU Free Documentation License (GFDL), you can comment to that effect on Talk:Alka Tomar. Then you should do one of the following:

Make a note on the original website that re-use is permitted under the GFDL and state at Talk:Alka Tomar where we can find that note; or
Send an e-mail from an address associated with the original publication to permissions-en(at)wikimedia(dot)org or a postal message to the Wikimedia Foundation permitting re-use under the GFDL, and note that you have done so on Talk:Alka Tomar.

Thank you, and please feel welcome to continue contributing to Wikipedia. Happy editing! -- ReyBrujo 15:15, 7 January 2007
***********************

amitrajora
January 12th, 2007, 11:47 AM
Copyrights, without the means of enforcing them, iare worthless. This site, being a non-profit venture might not be easily able to enforce any copyrights.(Individual works referenced on this site are an entirely different issue, and their owners are totally responsible for that.)

As for the immediate problem, the administrators can easily solve it if they are amenable to it.

ravichaudhary
January 13th, 2007, 05:03 AM
It is important to have a policy of Copyrights on this site and mentioned on it. We have to decide:

1. Which contents are to be allowed to RE-use or copy freely without restriction ?

2. Which contents are allowed to RE-use or copy from Jatland with rstrictions ?

3. So far we have not been mentioning name of the author on articles in Jatland Wiki. Though it remains in its history page. Some people insist to write the name of editor on the page itself. Shall we permit it ?

My immediate broblem came from Wikipedia. I gave stub article about Alka Tomar. I receved following message from user ReyBrujo.
***************************
Alka Tomar

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia! We welcome and appreciate your contributions, such as Alka Tomar, but we regretfully cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from either web sites or printed material. This article appears to be a direct copy from

http://www.jatland.com/home/Alka_Tomar,

and therefore a copyright violation. The copyrighted text has been or will soon be deleted.

If you believe that the article is not a copyright violation, or if you have permission from the copyright holder to release the content freely under the GNU Free Documentation License (GFDL), you can comment to that effect on Talk:Alka Tomar. Then you should do one of the following:

Make a note on the original website that re-use is permitted under the GFDL and state at Talk:Alka Tomar where we can find that note; or
Send an e-mail from an address associated with the original publication to permissions-en(at)wikimedia(dot)org or a postal message to the Wikimedia Foundation permitting re-use under the GFDL, and note that you have done so on Talk:Alka Tomar.

Thank you, and please feel welcome to continue contributing to Wikipedia. Happy editing! -- ReyBrujo 15:15, 7 January 2007
***********************


The copyright policy is then ,

" free use and reproduction of all material allowed" , put prominently on the website"

B]Make a note on the original website that [/B] re-use is permitted

chhillar
January 13th, 2007, 08:36 AM
Do you have any idea about the cost of what you are talking about here...I have a sofware product where we had to go for copy right thats how I know the process. It's not only expensive but very elaborate and time consuming too and then on top of that how sure are about the info being posted here is true and valid?

ndahiya
January 13th, 2007, 09:43 PM
It is important to have a policy of Copyrights on this site and mentioned on it. We have to decide:

1. Which contents are to be allowed to RE-use or copy freely without restriction ?

2. Which contents are allowed to RE-use or copy from Jatland with rstrictions ?

3. So far we have not been mentioning name of the author on articles in Jatland Wiki. Though it remains in its history page. Some people insist to write the name of editor on the page itself. Shall we permit it ?

My immediate broblem came from Wikipedia. I gave stub article about Alka Tomar. I receved following message from user ReyBrujo.
***********************


I believe the question of whather we have a copyright is settled (Yes, we do).

The other issue is that Burdak ji and Ravi ji raise. What should our policy be ref the copyright ?

My view is that exact copies of material should reference the source. Ideally speaking material that is "based on" or substantially similar needs to refer or atleast acknowledge the source as well. This improves the quality of information as it allows for linking up the info sources...

In my view, our policy should allow for free re-use, but with a reference back to the site.

Ref mentioning the author name, the collabarative nature of a wiki renders this somewhat useless, especially if multiple people work on a page. In our case, Mr Burdak does most of the work, so it can be different. But believe that putting the authors' name will desist others from contibuting.

From a copyright point of view for a website, the copyright owner is the site once the material is posted on it (even though the site does not vouch for the "correctness" of the content), unless ithe content creator is explicitly recognized as the copyright owner, in my view.

ndahiya
January 13th, 2007, 09:51 PM
Do you have any idea about the cost of what you are talking about here...I have a sofware product where we had to go for copy right thats how I know the process. It's not only expensive but very elaborate and time consuming too and then on top of that how sure are about the info being posted here is true and valid?

Believe we are not talking abt enforceable business copyright as in your case, but a policy ref the content. Even though an unenforceable policy has no direct material benefit, it provides a framework for content sharing.

vinodks
January 14th, 2007, 04:14 AM
Free re-use with Ref sounds ok. Articles taken from other primary sources of course could be reproduced further(as they have been reproduced here) without Ref. I suggest (if it matters at all) that authors of articles could have their names(if they wish) on articles in wiki for atleast two reasons.

1) The website won't be held responsible for accidentaly incorrect information(as there are some even right now) and it would be easier to trace individual writer for any change to be made. When two people have different opinions on certain piece its better for them discuss and decide the final form rather than keep editing wiki alternatively.

2) It gives incentive and ecourages new members to participate. It can be elaborated by examples but I would leave it at this.

-vinod

ndahiya
January 14th, 2007, 08:43 PM
Free re-use with Ref sounds ok. Articles taken from other primary sources of course could be reproduced further(as they have been reproduced here) without Ref.
-vinod

The distinction is trivial at best. Obviously, we do not want to violate anyone elses copyright policy just as we do not want ours to be violated. We should be properly referencing material as well (unless it is under a GFDL license). Anyone who uses us a source should refer back...

vinodks
January 14th, 2007, 09:46 PM
Lets take an example. You mean the following article taken (verbatim) from Dilip Singh's book regarding Jats' role in 1857 struggle can't be reproduced elsewhere without Jatland's Ref? Jatland should be grateful for people who made it available here and similarly if book publisher doesn't mind, it is absolutely legal to use it further by directly quoting Dilip Singh's name. No qualm about it.

http://www.jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?t=805

Rest of course gets decided as per your whims.

-vinod


The distinction is trivial at best. Obviously, we do not want to violate anyone elses copyright policy just as we do not want ours to be violated. We should be properly referencing material as well (unless it is under a GFDL license). Anyone who uses us a source should refer back...

ndahiya
January 15th, 2007, 04:33 AM
Lets take an example. You mean the following article taken (verbatim) from Dilip Singh's book regarding Jats' role in 1857 struggle can't be reproduced elsewhere without Jatland's Ref? Jatland should be grateful for people who made it available here and similarly if book publisher doesn't mind, it is absolutely legal to use it further by directly quoting Dilip Singh's name. No qualm about it.

-vinod

If that is the case, we should refer to it. One would like to assume that any "duplicated" content is already refered properly, unless it is made available by the original copyright owner/policy.



Rest of course gets decided as per your whims.
-vinod

There is little anyone can do with your presumptions and cynicism. :)

vinodks
January 15th, 2007, 07:43 AM
<edited by mod>

Well, that proves my point. Take care.

-vinod

narenderkharb
January 15th, 2007, 09:36 AM
Wants little clarification...?

Who will have the ownership ,if a writer submits an article via post here on jatland ,writer or jatland site?

vinodks
January 15th, 2007, 09:12 PM
Same question here.

-vinod


Wants little clarification...?

Who will have the ownership ,if a writer submits an article via post here on jatland ,writer or jatland site?

ndahiya
January 16th, 2007, 01:26 AM
Who will have the ownership ,if a writer submits an article via post here on jatland ,writer or jatland site?

Any material a member posts on the site needs to be original work or under a free license or under a fair use clause. To that extent, the member owns the copyright. Of course, it also means the member is responsible for making sure that nothing that is protected by another copyright (exceptions above) is copied.

So lets see: A member posts something here, and then wants to monetize it (say, sell the article to a publication). IMHO, he/she can choose to monetize it without asking the site, but can not ask the site to take it down.

Thus the member/poster is the owner of the content, but once he/she chooses to post on the site, can not exclude the site from using it.

On the separate issue of what the license involves: A reading of the GNU Free Documentation License (GFDL) makes interesting reading...

http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/fdl.html



.....

2. VERBATIM COPYING
You may copy and distribute the Document in any medium, either commercially or noncommercially, provided that this License, the copyright notices, and the license notice saying this License applies to the Document are reproduced in all copies, and that you add no other conditions whatsoever to those of this License.
....



My understanding of the text above is that once the text is under GFDL (as per the site's policy), the copyright owner can not object to its reuse etc. However, the copyright needs to be acknowledged everytime, hence the refer back to the site...

lrburdak
February 23rd, 2007, 10:24 PM
Jatland Wiki contributors have licensed to the public under the GNU Free Documentation License (GFDL) under which Permission is granted to copy, distribute and/or modify this document under the terms of the GNU Free Documentation License.

Jatland Wiki content can be copied, modified, and redistributed so long as the new version grants the same freedoms to others and acknowledges the authors of the Jatland Wiki article used. A direct link back to the article on Jatland satisfies our author credit requirement.

Jatland Wiki articles therefore will remain free forever and can be used by anybody subject to certain restrictions, most of which serve to ensure that freedom.

The Jatland does not own copyright on Jatland Wiki article texts and illustrations. It is therefore useless asking for permission to reproduce its content.

The permissions to reproduce Jatland Wiki content in accordance with these conditions are granted without request.
***************************
Note:- Based on above discussions above Jatland Wiki Copyright Policy Draft proposal has been prepared. If members feel to add any correction it may be suggested. If it is finalized it may be put on Jatland Wiki Copyright Policy page for implementation.

Regards,

ndahiya
March 4th, 2007, 01:38 AM
Overall, think it summarizes the discussion... We can provide a link to GFDL, so as not to repeat its details...




Jatland Wiki articles therefore will remain free forever and can be used by anybody subject to certain restrictions, most of which serve to ensure that freedom.

The Jatland does not own copyright on Jatland Wiki article texts and illustrations. It is therefore useless asking for permission to reproduce its content.


The second statement is probably incorrect. Jatland does own the copyright, but has decided to (per this policy) share it under GFDL. if there is no copyright, where is the question of having to provide a link back etc... ? Hence we need to just say something like, "Subject to the above policy, no explicit permission needs to be taken to reproduce contect, so long as the conditions (eg: link back etc) are met"..

Also, wonder if these statements are better suited as an explanation than as a part of the policy ?

lrburdak
March 19th, 2007, 10:11 AM
Jatland Copyrights policy has been posted on Jatland Wiki. It may be kept for some days for amendments etc and later it can be protected. May see here-

http://www.jatland.com/home/Jatland_Wiki:Copyrights

Regards,