Guru, An inspiration or an intivitation for false approaches?

[desijat]

Today i saw Guru, which one can see clearly is the story of one of the most successful Businessman of India. Mr. Dhirubhai Ambani

I salute that man for his vision, his efforts and hardwork. Indeed it requires a lot to start a business from nothing and then to create an empire. But there are some questions that this movie has raised in my mind which i would like to discuss with respected members of Jatland.


This movie talks about a trend which was started that time, not a trend rather a virus, of Corruption and it is very much justified in this movie that it was nothing wrong that the gentleman did looking at the vision and money he had...... how much justified is it that one can break the system and we potray him as a hero?


Another thing that took me to surprise was that Guru, the character is facing a trial for 29 Cases of breakage of Export Import policy, Income tax, Sales Tax etc. which were literally proved, but when he gives a 5 minute lecture saying he did this all for his share holders, he wants India to grow and not to beg to world bank for road funds, he wants people/middle class to go big etc etc. where he does not talk anything about charges framed on him, he is still exempted from 27 cases and is just fined for 2 cases........ Are we trying to show here that our Law is so weak that a 5 Minute lecture can make the jury emotional? Talks about share holders, their rise in income justifies your not paying taxes to govt? and then talking about India shining and getting free from world bank's loans.... And this comes from a visionery Businessman



Now a question about Reliance, We all know that how reliance has made it so big, i am just talking about the facts beyond hardworkt,wrong evalution of properties, capturing markets by unfair means, bribing govt. ministers and officials for policies.... The question i want to ask is should we be making movies showing people using false approaches but still emerging as hero, or movies like Rang De Basanti where people change the system, remove ills..... i




In all to sum up.... What do we need....

Guru - a movie showing a visionery getting a part of corrupt system, but still managing to get out of it and emerge as a hero

Rang De Basanti - Rebellious movie, which motivates us to take an action if we see any ill in the system

[dahiyarules]

Bad Laws must be broken.

Have we forgotten about the civil disobdience movement? When our freedom fighters broke all unfair British laws to get our freedom.

I want every citizen to break all possible economic laws of the country. Hide as much money as possible from the government and avoid paying taxes. Do whatever you want with your money. Its your money. The government cannot spend it as well as you can.

[desijat]

I want every citizen to break all possible economic laws of the country. Hide as much money as possible from the government and avoid paying taxes.

This is a surprise, rather a shock to me....

Would you expect people to build infrastructure like roads, flyovers, hospitals for poor etc from their savings? People dont even pay their taxes fully, forget about social service....

This approach of yours would make rich people more rich and poor more poor.

Being in a country like India where people save more than spending would disturb whole liquidity of economy.....

If i could kindly request you to please see the ads for Income tax n Sales tax that government runs on TV channels... they are not just wasting money on them rather teaching us the importance of taxes..

[neels]

Haven't seen the movie, will discuss after seeing the movie.

[vijay]

Bad Laws must be broken.

I want every citizen to break all possible economic laws of the country. Hide as much money as possible from the government and avoid paying taxes. Do whatever you want with your money. Its your money. The government cannot spend it as well as you can.

I agree with you Sumit here, word to word.

[dahiyarules]

This is a surprise, rather a shock to me....

Would you expect people to build infrastructure like roads, flyovers, hospitals for poor etc from their savings? People dont even pay their taxes fully, forget about social service....

This approach of yours would make rich people more rich and poor more poor.

Being in a country like India where people save more than spending would disturb whole liquidity of economy.....

If i could kindly request you to please see the ads for Income tax n Sales tax that government runs on TV channels... they are not just wasting money on them rather teaching us the importance of taxes..

This shows that you know nothing about economics.

When people have money, they have two options.

1. Spend it.

2. Save it.

Lets look at what happens when people want to spend their money.

People want to spend their money on buying things that improve their lives. Things like nice cars, air-conditioners, electronic gadgets etc.

If people want to have a car, they want to drive it too. So, there will be a demand for roads and flyovers. Now they have 2 options.

a. Drive on roads that are constructed and maintained by the money that the government steals from people like you, in the name of taxation.

b. They pay for the roads just like they do at numerous toll roads and flyovers in India now a days.

What would you prefer? Do you want to pay for the roads on which people can drive their nice cars? Do you want people to pay the roads, themselves?

If you are a rational person, I guess you would want people to pay for their own roads and flyovers.

Without drifting from the issue at hand, I want you to know that in the absence of a government provided system, people will be encouraged to pay for their own needs instead of transferring the burden of their liabilities on taxpayers like me and you.

As far as the poor are concerned, poverty is an unavoidable evil in our society. Even in America there are millions who are homeless and live below the poverty line.

But, this is not the end of the story for them. Many people are poor because of lack of opportunities due to heavy government regulation of the economy. I know of so many graduates who drive auto-rickshaws to feed their families. Now a days graduates get decent jobs in some outsourcing business in India, thanks to a freer economy.

We can reduce the level of poverty by providing more opportunities by the means of free markets. The left over poverty must be dealt by open hearts and pockets. I would love to pay for a poor man's child's education, when I start making money.

Infact I am poor too. A couple of years ago, I had a medical bill worth several thousand dollars. My insurance took care of some. The hospital's donors took care of the rest.

The fact is that you cannot abolish poverty by letting the government steal your hard earned money and keeping 90 percent of it and giving the rest to the poor. I dont think that the poor even get 10 percent of what we pay in taxes. I had rather give the entire 100 percent to the poor, but in person.

But, we can definitely reduce poverty by creating more opportunities by the means of free-markets.

Coming back to Option 2.

If people save money, they keep it in banks or invest it in securities. If government has tough fiscal regulations then people will horde money or hide it in overseas accounts.

If the government doesnt have tough fiscal regulations people will have the incentive to save the money within our borders. Such money will be reinvested in our economy, and thus creating jobs and opportunities.

If the government has tough fiscal regulations people will hide money in overseas accounts. That money will be invested in some one elses economies and thus creating jobs and opportunities which our citizens rightfully deserve.

I could go on and on. But, people need to understand the importance of free-markets.

[rraajjeevv]

Bad Laws must be broken.

I want every citizen to break all possible economic laws of the country. Hide as much money as possible from the government and avoid paying taxes. Do whatever you want with your money. Its your money. The government cannot spend it as well as you can.

Sumit,
In USA do you practice what you preach?

[dahiyarules]

Sumit,
In USA do you practice what you preach?

In India, maybe I do, Maybe I dont. I have the right to avoid self-incrimination. So, I wont tell you what I do or what I dont when I am in India.

I just want you to know that I am a guest here. I do not belong to this country. And guests are expected to live by the rules of the host. That is my philosophy. And, I follow it whole heartedly.

[pnauhwar21]

I could go on and on. But, people need to understand the importance of free-markets.

Sumit yaar, if you channel all your thoughts and energy in creating a good political party in india and change the system while being in government it will be far more easier than explaining and convincing people about benefits of Free markets without any government as your idea is really unpractical. I had asked you the practical implementation of your idea in other thread 'Does India need to increase or decrease it's defense spending?', Post no. 55 but you skipped it.

One more thing, almost all of us agree that private companies are better than government and we should have more private companies whether for road building, electricity or any other thing. But a line is drawn between your thoughts and mine (and I believe most of us) when you talk about 0 government as thats simply not possible and feasible. But replacing the corrupt people is possible if people like us dive in the mainstream of politics and improve the system. Now, this may not be possible right away but is not impossible.

Last option ye hai ki Marne ke baad Bhagwan se baat kar loonga ek pralaya lane ke liye jisme saare corrupt log bah jayen..:)

[dahiyarules]

Sumit yaar, if you channel all your thoughts and energy in creating a good political party in india and change the system while being in government it will be far more easier than explaining and convincing people about benefits of Free markets without any government as your idea is really unpractical. I had asked you the practical implementation of your idea in other thread 'Does India need to increase or decrease it's defense spending?', Post no. 55 but you skipped it.

One more thing, almost all of us agree that private companies are better than government and we should have more private companies whether for road building, electricity or any other thing. But a line is drawn between your thoughts and mine (and I believe most of us) when you talk about 0 government as thats simply not possible and feasible. But replacing the corrupt people is possible if people like us dive in the mainstream of politics and improve the system. Now, this may not be possible right away but is not impossible.

Last option ye hai ki Marne ke baad Bhagwan se baat kar loonga ek pralaya lane ke liye jisme saare corrupt log bah jayen..:)

I will respond to your queries with just two words: "Politics Corrupt."

The last moralist who tried to stick to his moral while he was in politics was gunned down just before our country started administering itself. His Name was Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi.

You cannot expect anyone to get rid of the Government by being a part of it. You wont shoot yourself in your own foot.

My advice to the citizens is to choose private alternatives over government alternative. The short term costs may be higher, but the long term benefits surpass all costs. Be open minded-about free-markets. Be competitive. Give the best player in the market the chance to serve your interests. Maximize the value of your rupee.

[brainspeak]

This shows that you know nothing about economics.

When people have money, they have two options.

1. Spend it.

2. Save it.

Lets look at what happens when people want to spend their money.

People want to spend their money on buying things that improve their lives. Things like nice cars, air-conditioners, electronic gadgets etc.

If people want to have a car, they want to drive it too. So, there will be a demand for roads and flyovers. Now they have 2 options.

a. Drive on roads that are constructed and maintained by the money that the government steals from people like you, in the name of taxation.

b. They pay for the roads just like they do at numerous toll roads and flyovers in India now a days.

What would you prefer? Do you want to pay for the roads on which people can drive their nice cars? Do you want people to pay the roads, themselves?

If you are a rational person, I guess you would want people to pay for their own roads and flyovers.

Without drifting from the issue at hand, I want you to know that in the absence of a government provided system, people will be encouraged to pay for their own needs instead of transferring the burden of their liabilities on taxpayers like me and you.

As far as the poor are concerned, poverty is an unavoidable evil in our society. Even in America there are millions who are homeless and live below the poverty line.

But, this is not the end of the story for them. Many people are poor because of lack of opportunities due to heavy government regulation of the economy. I know of so many graduates who drive auto-rickshaws to feed their families. Now a days graduates get decent jobs in some outsourcing business in India, thanks to a freer economy.

We can reduce the level of poverty by providing more opportunities by the means of free markets. The left over poverty must be dealt by open hearts and pockets. I would love to pay for a poor man's child's education, when I start making money.

Infact I am poor too. A couple of years ago, I had a medical bill worth several thousand dollars. My insurance took care of some. The hospital's donors took care of the rest.

The fact is that you cannot abolish poverty by letting the government steal your hard earned money and keeping 90 percent of it and giving the rest to the poor. I dont think that the poor even get 10 percent of what we pay in taxes. I had rather give the entire 100 percent to the poor, but in person.

But, we can definitely reduce poverty by creating more opportunities by the means of free-markets.

Coming back to Option 2.

If people save money, they keep it in banks or invest it in securities. If government has tough fiscal regulations then people will horde money or hide it in overseas accounts.

If the government doesnt have tough fiscal regulations people will have the incentive to save the money within our borders. Such money will be reinvested in our economy, and thus creating jobs and opportunities.

If the government has tough fiscal regulations people will hide money in overseas accounts. That money will be invested in some one elses economies and thus creating jobs and opportunities which our citizens rightfully deserve.

I could go on and on. But, people need to understand the importance of free-markets.

i usually dont read ur posts....but today happened to read one...only one word-- absurd!

[pnauhwar21]

I will respond to your queries with just two words: "Politics Corrupt."

You cannot expect anyone to get rid of the Government by being a part of it. You wont shoot yourself in your own foot.


You have proved now that you don't have a clue how your theory of 'No Government' can be implemented. So no more questions to you...Good luck with your shallow theories :)

[desijat]

Few questions for Mr. Dahiya....
Supposingly India is made a free market and we have no government system....


How would you ensure the security of a country? .... or would u outsource it to some other organization?\
Who would care about the basic human rights? Wont we see richer segment of society putting more pressure of poor people... would poor have a say?
How would the police work? Or are you assuming that there wouldnt be any crime in the society then?
Last but not the least..... in a country like India, What alternative do you see for the subsidies that govt. provides on basic necesseties like LPG?

[dahiyarules]

You have proved now that you don't have a clue how your theory of 'No Government' can be implemented. So no more questions to you...Good luck with your shallow theories :)

Just read any of my related posts or my website. I just see no point in repeating it the zillionth time. You know what I am going to say. You just want to pan me once again. Theres really no point locking horns on this issue.

[dahiyarules]

i usually dont read ur posts....but today happened to read one...only one word-- absurd!

Thanks a lot.

[dahiyarules]

Few questions for Mr. Dahiya....
Supposingly India is made a free market and we have no government system....


How would you ensure the security of a country? .... or would u outsource it to some other organization?\
Who would care about the basic human rights? Wont we see richer segment of society putting more pressure of poor people... would poor have a say?
How would the police work? Or are you assuming that there wouldnt be any crime in the society then?
Last but not the least..... in a country like India, What alternative do you see for the subsidies that govt. provides on basic necesseties like LPG?


Just read any of my related posts or my website. I just see no point in repeating it the zillionth time. You know what I am going to say. You just want to pan me once again. Theres really no point locking horns on this issue.

To talk to you would be like reading Shakespeare to someone who has no knowledge of the english alphabet. In other words you have no idea of economics or commerce.

Please do not reply to this post. Because I do not want it to become another heated argument. I promise I am not going to reply to it, no matter how agonizing and controversial you make it to be. If you have any questions or comments, you may email me.

[downtoearth]

Just read any of my related posts or my website. I just see no point in repeating it the zillionth time. You know what I am going to say. You just want to pan me once again. Theres really no point locking horns on this issue.

To talk to you would be like reading Shakespeare to someone who has no knowledge of the english alphabet. In other words you have no idea of economics or commerce.

Please do not reply to this post. Because I do not want it to become another heated argument. I promise I am not going to reply to it, no matter how agonizing and controversial you make it to be. If you have any questions or comments, you may email me. he he dahiya bro take ur chill pill:p:p...:):) even einstein used to ask questions;););)....

[dahiyarules]

he he dahiya bro take ur chill pill:p:p...:):) even einstein used to ask questions;););)....

Its not abt questions Rupi yaar! It is about repeated questions. :)

Questioning is what I am doing. I am questioning the way things are. Is the current system where we give unprecedented and unimpeachable authority to the government helping us?

The recent case in Nithari (Noida) did cause some members to question if everyone including the poor are equal under the current system.

My belief is that we cannot be equal if we offshore the our right to choose and decide to a system that is corrupt from all angles.

[vinaychaudhary]

i will also think about it and will comment

[desijat]

Just read any of my related posts or my website. I just see no point in repeating it the zillionth time. You know what I am going to say. You just want to pan me once again. Theres really no point locking horns on this issue.


If u cant convince people even after explaining something zillionth times , then check whose failing and why is it that people are not liking your ideas?

simply cause they are way beyond practicality....


To talk to you would be like reading Shakespeare to someone who has no knowledge of the english alphabet. In other words you have no idea of economics or commerce.


I can see that when people cant answer certain questions, what kind of escape route they take......

Calling someone a fool simply wont leave you intelligent... it takes a lot to prove it


Please do not reply to this post. Because I do not want it to become another heated argument. I promise I am not going to reply to it, no matter how agonizing and controversial you make it to be. If you have any questions or comments, you may email me.

If u think u r right, and if u r confident ... u will

i promise

[gaganrana]

Sumit you should not use word GOVERNMENT, but BAD GOVERNMENT or Unorganized part of government is the right way to putting things across..... as Complete Government is NOT wrong, corrupt or unethical but some parts...its not an ADVICE bro, just think about it....:cool:

Also, you cannot justify that Goverments are completely wrong and useless......



Its not abt questions Rupi yaar! It is about repeated questions. :)

Questioning is what I am doing. I am questioning the way things are. Is the current system where we give unprecedented and unimpeachable authority to the government helping us?

The recent case in Nithari (Noida) did cause some members to question if everyone including the poor are equal under the current system.

My belief is that we cannot be equal if we offshore the our right to choose and decide to a system that is corrupt from all angles.