PDA

View Full Version : Why do we criticize our nations?



Samarkadian
February 12th, 2007, 11:38 PM
While surfing acroos,I came across to the following article from a blog.Somehow, I liked it and pasting here for reading n thinking pleasure of fellow Jatlanders:-

{
Most people in the world grow up with prejudices and preset notions ingrained into them by the schools, parents and the media. This is no different for people of India. For example, an Indian talking to Pakistani is confronted with ‘gross distortion’ of history- it baffles him that what they learn is completely ‘untrue’. That’s because we are taught history in different ways. Most Indians grow up knowing the map of India to be such (which includes the beautiful head shape of Jammu and Kashmir). We do not question its authenticity. Therefore, when someone depicts the reality (which shows PoK, Northern regions and Aksai Chin outside India), we become very angry and resort to protest. Most Indians do not know their constitution either- hence an unnecessary debate arises when some groups resist mandatory singing of a ‘patriotic’ song. The state, the media and the system participate in mass education and after awhile it becomes unchallenged – even blatant lies pass on as absolute truths. And in countries like India where people lean more towards authoritarian setup compared to libertarian, questioning authority is tantamount to being traitorous or unpatriotic, and therefore all kinds of critical introspection is condemned as sacrilegious. This unquestioning faith and loyalty in the system is extreme in matters of nation (all army actions are absolved) and its enemies (targeting certain alien religions within), but is completely renounced when it comes to matter of adhering to law and order (here it becomes very subjective).

<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->

The incidents and events of Kashmir are portrayed to Indian masses in a deliberate and intended light. Most Indians grow up knowing 'Indianized' history; they know only the atrocities committed against Hindu Pandits; they are aware of mass killings carried out by terrorists, who happen to be ‘foreign mercenaries enjoying Pakistan support’, but are unaware of all other popular movements in that region. Most Indians do not get the same exposure to the role of Indian politics in Kashmir, role of Indian Army, and the nature of local and indigenous freedom movements. Even if they hear it, they dismiss it as mass propaganda of Pakistan, Islamists, or of vested interests that want to see India fail.

<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->

Such continued prejudices, misinformation campaigns and selected hearing result in a mass hypnosis and soon the actual facts and data are out of the door to be replaced with ideology. We soon have a breed of young fanatic Indians who believe they can lay down their life to defend Kashmir. Against whom?

Every nation that has to hide its mistakes has to create a bogeyman, someone who can take blame for all the incidents and events that seem to question the legitimacy of the nation’s mistakes and misadventures. Pakistan has always been our bogeyman and now the new entrant is Islamic fundamentalism. You can explain away almost every incident and event that takes place in Kashmir by blaming these two culprits. A terrorist action against Army barracks- it was done by Pakistani infiltrators. A mass protest against Indian rule- it was instigated and funded by Pakistan. A suicide killer blew up a bridge- the innocent Kashmiri youth are brainwashed by Islamic groups in Pakistan. Kashmiris do not turn up to vote for local elections- they were threatened by Pakistani and Islamic terrorists. So on so forth. This argument is used again and again, so much so that nobody questions it anymore, because the lie has been repeated so many times it has now become truth.


<!--[endif]-->
“Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it”- Adolf Hitler

<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->

Questioning our government’s stance and oneself is only the first step towards rational thought. Most of us, the critics, want you to ask questions. You don’t have to believe what we say. But you may want to listen to what we say because it presents the other side of the story. You may already know THE truth but what we present is the OTHER truth. In our attempt to present the other side of the story, we may not repeat certain true stories that you have already heard.

<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->

Most of us who criticize Indian rule in Kashmir, American aggression, Israel occupation, are not Islamists nor do we believe in radical Islam as practiced in certain nations or as promoted by some terrorist outfits. Even if we were given a choice we would not go live in those theocratic nations. That’s why you find Noam Chomsky and Michael Moore living in US although they are its biggest critics. Most of us who criticize our nations are ensconced in democratic and free institutions in which we take pride. The reason why we take pride in our nations is because it allows and accepts that criticism, our voice and expression, however bizarre it may sound. We believe this criticism is necessary to provide the necessary checks and balances to otherwise a strong and autocratic government that feeds on fascistic, nationalistic or religious jingoistic majorities. We believe these nations are great because of this very reason- that it allows people to speak their opinion and criticize their nations- each of its actions and symbols. Many people who do not like my writings berate me and tell me to shut up. They say, “How can you criticize your own nation and talk against it? How can you be not proud of the very nation that gave you shelter, food, etc? Aren’t you grateful to the nation which has given you this freedom? You must be an Islamist or a communist!”

<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->

We run into a paradox when we encounter such people- these first-generation immigrants and those redneck Americans who have never understood the greatness of their own nation; these urban educated Indians who have not understood the greatness of their own nation. Why do they want me to stop criticizing my nation that I take pride in, when the very reason I take pride in it is because it allows that criticism?

<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->

Most overzealous people in an obsessive effort to combat their enemy become just like their enemy, but on the other side of the coin. The Hindus who fight Islam want to portray Hinduism as monotheistic and rigid just like Islam but on the opposite side (which according to them is a good side). The Indians who fight Pakistan want to curb all voices of dissidence within its nations just the way Pakistan does. The Americans who fight terrorism want their citizens to be grateful of their nations to become just like their enemies they fight- dogmatic and authoritarian, curbing people’s freedom on the name of Patriotic Act. The biggest success of terrorists of 9/11 and the biggest defeat of US is the loss of that American freedom. The Indian side of the story has TADA, POTA, Section 144, Emergency, banning of books, movies, and art shows.

<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->

We, the miniscule few critics of India, consider ourselves different kind of champions of India and its institutions. For us, the greatness is not found in ancient texts or Akhand Bharat. We don’t see glory in the remote past nor expansion of our boundaries. Even if a Danish jail cell provides much better living conditions and amenities, we would not recommend it to someone living in slums of Delhi, but who is free. We are not proud of our nation when it rules certain people at the point of a gun with a belief that it is actually giving it better facilities and freedom while those people reject all our gestures. We believe the greatness of this nation is its institutions, though half-built, but still working- which promote modern and universal values. We believe the greatness comes when minorities, backward classes, the poor and downtrodden of this country get the same opportunities, enjoy access to basic amenities (like education, food, water, shelter) and avail the same values which we take pride in. We believe in looking inward to build institutions that give fair trial, equal opportunity, and guarantee for fundamental rights. However, we do not believe in forcing those values down the throats of others- because then it becomes an ideology.

<!--[if !supportEmptyParas]--> <!--[endif]-->

Though India has quickly embraced tools of modernity (like cell phones, cars, internet, etc) it has not completely embraced the values of modernity- equality, tolerance, liberty, and modern science. In an effort to combat its enemies, it is fast eroding all its half-built institutions, to become exactly like its enemies- intolerant of diversity, shunning of modern science, curbing of people’s freedom and aspirations. India, which has been the champion of independence and freedom movements elsewhere has now become the same aggressor it abhorred. It is slowly becoming exactly like its enemy. And we critics do not want that to happen.}

Refernce=http://sujaiblog.blogspot.com/2006/10/why-do-we-criticize-our-nations.html

priti
February 13th, 2007, 01:28 AM
nice dig Samar....keep it rolling....

kharub
February 13th, 2007, 03:27 AM
Who ever wrote it has no clue how nations are run ... and has a biased opinion ....

Somethings are just a fact of life and cannot be change ... and we have to do them because everybody else does it and fi dont do it ... we risk failure and disintegration ......

For the greater good small sacrifices have to be made .. there is no way around it

priti
February 13th, 2007, 08:48 PM
Kharub bhai
Apke strong opinion sunke, manne thoda sa dar laage se likhan mein par likhe bina datta bhi na jaata...

any thought/idea/ideology which loses it subtleness and becomes a greater fact than people is at risk of becoming fascist (including this thought of mine)...thats what is good about this article......your post sort of defeats the purpose.....


Who ever wrote it has no clue how nations are run ... and has a biased opinion ....

Somethings are just a fact of life and cannot be change ... and we have to do them because everybody else does it and fi dont do it ... we risk failure and disintegration ......

For the greater good small sacrifices have to be made .. there is no way around it

kharub
February 14th, 2007, 01:12 AM
Priti Ji, I might be a bit aggressive in my approach at times, but I have not turned a cannibal as yet, so dont worry

It is very important that somebody else challenges or debates one's view as it leads to a greated clarity of thought and a better understanding .. and also to enlightment sometimes



Most people in the world grow up with prejudices and preset notions ingrained into them by the schools, parents and the media. This is no different for people of India.

What is prejudice ?
I guess pre-judice is having an opinion or judgement on something without having any first hand knowledge or without having dealt with it yourself

Human mind is like a computer, you feed info and then when it comes across something it tries to rationalise it based on that stored information, so prejudice is a natural process there is nothing wrong with prejudice and it is not neccessarily bad
The values that one is fed and learns determine the narture of that pre-judice, whether it is positive or negative.

Prejudice comes natural to every human being everyone who has a functional brain has prejudice


For example, an Indian talking to Pakistani is confronted with ‘gross distortion’ of history- it baffles him that what they learn is completely ‘untrue’. That’s because we are taught history in different ways. Most Indians grow up knowing the map of India to be such. We do not question its authenticity. Therefore, when someone depicts the reality (which shows PoK, Northern regions and Aksai Chin outside India), we become very angry and resort to protest.

What rubbish, I bet everybody who uses internet or reads a newspaper knows what is the Indian Map and what actually is Indian terrotory
But still we accept the Map even though we know that it is not the real map
Its called "A matter of Principle" which this guy lacks any knowledge of, Its call pride for which a man can kill or die
But I guess he neither has any balls nor self-respect

The state, the media and the system participate in mass education and after awhile it becomes unchallenged – even blatant lies pass on as absolute truths.

Any nation, especially when it is as diverse as India, needs a set of common values, beliefs and customs to be uniform inspite of all the diversity and this is when we have to implement a uniform education system
To achieve those shared values, beliefs & customs
Germany, Austria and Most of Switzerland are esentially German speaking Germanic people, but distinctively different countries - why ??
Because they have different values even when they are the same race
So in a country like India where every 100 km the language and the ethicity changes, we need that uniform system of mass education to create a sense of belonging


And in countries like India where people lean more towards authoritarian setup compared to libertarian, questioning authority is tantamount to being traitorous or unpatriotic, and therefore all kinds of critical introspection is condemned as sacrilegious.

In India the emerging and powerful media is everyday questioning the corrupt and the authority and has wide support of the general public and people like myself

Libertarian stands for spineless, enemies of the human society. Libertarians want animalistic freedom for human beings and destroy the very social and moral fabric which makes us human and has defined our existence

Questioning is not wrong, destroying or provocating to destroy, what is sacred is wrong and should be punished, there is a limit for everything and the limit here is the protection and safeguard of society and social values


Such continued prejudices, misinformation campaigns and selected hearing result in a mass hypnosis and soon the actual facts and data are out of the door to be replaced with ideology. We soon have a breed of young fanatic Indians who believe they can lay down their life to defend Kashmir.

What is the fact and what is misinformation ?? Can anybody ever establish that??
Fact can very well be completely opposite for people on the opposite sides of the argument ... it can be as a result of conflict of interest or mental conditioning (i like to call it education) ... So what is right for one may very well be wrong for the other and both can be right in their stand ....
So we have to establish what is the truth for us ....... and the truth for us is what is in our best interest

Fanatics - this is what libertarians call people with self-respect, dignity, values and strong beliefs, because they themselves lack it all

I would lay down my life for my country or race (JAT) any day and not because I am an ignorant brainwashed fool, but because there are somethings more sacred and important than human life, these are call Values, the very basis of human society
but what would a libertarian understand about these concepts ... huh



Every nation that has to hide its mistakes has to create a bogeyman, someone who can take blame for all the incidents and events that seem to question the legitimacy of the nation’s mistakes and misadventures. Pakistan has always been our bogeyman and now the new entrant is Islamic fundamentalism.

Yes some mistakes need to be masked and hidden from the masses otherwise we risk chaos and confusion
I will give you an example

Maybe you smoked and drank and did a bit of drugs when you were young .. but you tell your kids dont do it, and you never tell them that you yourself did it when you were young - Why ??
because you think if you tell them you made the same mistakes they will not heed your advice ... and you are right

What is important is that mistakes be realised and lessons learnt and there are times when you have to hide them and blame them on others - such is the nature of life and human behaviour

And Pakistan is doing those things .... this guys makes it seem like they are all lies .. there is definately a big Kashmiri element in the fight .. but Pakistan is instigating it all and sending poeple ... Pakistan is not the bogeyman .. Pakistan is the culprit


“Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it”- Adolf Hitler --- Hitler did not say it Joseph Goebbels did


Questioning our government’s stance and oneself is only the first step towards rational thought. Most of us, the critics, want you to ask questions. You don’t have to believe what we say. But you may want to listen to what we say because it presents the other side of the story. You may already know THE truth but what we present is the OTHER truth. In our attempt to present the other side of the story, we may not repeat certain true stories that you have already heard.

Yes it is very important to question - but criticism is not right just for the sake of it
Questioning & Critisizing are two completely different things, Though this guy seems to have mistaken them for one and the same


Most of us who criticize Indian rule in Kashmir, American aggression, Israel occupation, are not Islamists nor do we believe in radical Islam as practiced in certain nations or as promoted by some terrorist outfits. Even if we were given a choice we would not go live in those theocratic nations. That’s why you find Noam Chomsky and Michael Moore living in US although they are its biggest critics.

Michael Moore is a rat, he is a puppet fo the very people he criticizes on TV .. he was used as a puppet by the American establishment ... to pose as a citic .. and undermine the real critics and divert the attention from real questions and if you want we can have a discussion on why and how

Most of us who criticize our nations are ensconced in democratic and free institutions in which we take pride.

Why criticize .. question first .. and if its wrong the feel free to criticize .. why are you hell bent on citicizing when you have not even established if something is worthy of criticism or not .. just because you are a habitual critic


Though India has quickly embraced tools of modernity (like cell phones, cars, internet, etc) it has not completely embraced the values of modernity- equality, tolerance, liberty, and modern science.

Why is modernity such a great thing ... liberty .. do you think liberty comes at the cost of society and social values ?? .. like in the west .. then I reject that liberty or that modernity .... I rather be a primitive savage and feel human because I have social bonds and a social structure that was the very basis of human identity and progress

But if moderanity means preserving the society while embracing new thoughts, ideas, diversity, equality and knowledge then I am up for it


We welcome questioning the establishment and criticizing the wrong ... it is very much needed to check the misuse of power .. but critisizing everything is a wrong approach and not healthy ... Something cannot be criticised like respecting your parents and elders .. like standing up for justice and fairness

Life in reality is much more trivial and complex and so is the running of nations and preserving socities ... These things are multi-dimentional .... they cannot be looked into while having a one dimentional view .. somethng that this guys has .......... with these glasses on .. he will never understand these trivial affairs and will always critisize .. not because these matters deserve criticism .. but because he lacks the mental, visual and imaginatory scope to assess and see into these matters