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ishwarlamba
June 21st, 2004, 05:47 AM
Hi All,
My bhatija Amit got in for IIT. He has to choose on 30th June. Looking at the score, he may get Computer Science in IITG, Instrumentation in IITK or Maths & Computing. I have preference for computer science. Can you all help me on this noble cause. I am also an old IITian (1971), waiting for your advice soon.
regards

mbamal
June 21st, 2004, 06:49 AM
Uncle Ji,

According to me,

IITG CS is the best option.

next best option is maths and computing (is it at iitd?)

congratulations to Amit!.

birbal
June 21st, 2004, 07:01 AM
Lambaji,

Congratulations to your nephew for getting into IIT. I feel intelligent children should be allowed to pursue their own interests and dreams, but since you asked for opinions here, I would like to offer my analysis.

I have seen over the years that when it comes to choosing a field in India the standard practice is to "follow the crowd and join the fad". I remember 45 years ago the first branch to be filled was Mechanical Engineering, and now a days it is Computer Science.

My belief is that it is not a good idea to chase a "hot" field unless one has a genuine interest in it and has some specific plans for the future. However, for someone who is not committed to one field, the choice should be made on the basis of long term prospets.

I prefer Mechanical Engieering for someone who is good in math and who wants to keep his options open. Companies are always trying to make smaller and faster devices, and that has made mechanical engineering the most stable field of engineering in times of economic uncertainty. The field provides ample opportunities for an "entrepreneurial" person to pursue his dreams but it also provides a stable career for someone who just wants a decent life. For those who are good in applied math, a B.Tech. in Mech. Eng. followed by M.S. and/or Ph.D. in Industrial Engineering always leads to excellent opportunities. Those with good interpersonal skills can follow with an MBA. Mechanical engineering is really the most versatile field as it overlaps with civil eng. (structures and mechanics), chemical eng. (heat and fluid flow), and electrical eng. (controls ).

The problem I see with computer science is that unless you get out of pure "techie stuff" soon it is not so fun to compete with 20 year olds when you are heading past 40. But, usually the computer types are "boxed in" and they get trapped. Very few people realize that the guy who designed the first PC is now a practicing medical doctor in Atlanta, Georgia. I remmber watching a show on PBS showing the history of PC and the pure techies did the work but did not receive any credit or benefits.

In general, it is a good idea to join a field that offers multiple options for a varity of personality traits. There is a place in mechanical engineering for introverts and extroverts, math geniuses and practical oriented, easy going and workaholics. Most importantly, if all the toppers are concentrated in comp science, it may be lot easier to get a higher rank in mech. eng. and that is critical for future prospects.

ishwarlamba
June 21st, 2004, 08:04 AM
Thanks Mandeep for feed back
Yes, Maths and computing is at IITD
with love
------------------------------------
Uncle Ji,

According to me,

IITG CS is the best option.

next best option is maths and computing (is it at iitd?)

congratulations to Amit!.[/quote]

ishwarlamba
June 21st, 2004, 08:17 AM
Dr Birbal Singh Ji,
Thanks for very informative reply
I agree with u, engineering means mechanical Eng which is a complete engineering while others are its subsideries.
I asked the boy, he said I like physics. But I know every bright student is good at physics any way. Also it looks he has not made up his mind. Today I will discuss with him more options.
I received reply from Dr Prev Vrat, director IITR and he also said computer science.
It looks in India because of international market leadership, IT will be first preference for at least another 10 years. Also salary in IT multinational companies is quite high which engineers are not getting unless do MBA from an IIM on top of your degree. Also one need not do pogramming for long if u are in India. All my batch mates are vice presidents or in general management.I know people working in TCS etc who grow quite well. This problem we face when we migrate to a new country in middle age.
At 45 I was head of computer department in India, but in Australia I had to start as an Analyst/Programmer. This was the situation 16 years ago. That time we Indians had just started coming to Australia on migration. Financialy we were fine and we came with family, but technology wise we where not that upto date and we newcomers had to pay the price at that time. At least we had not to do the odd jobs.
regards

----------------------------------
Lambaji,

Congratulations to your nephew for getting into IIT. I feel intelligent children should be allowed to pursue their own interests and dreams, but since you asked for opinions here, I would like to offer my analysis.

I have seen over the years that when it comes to choosing a field in India the standard practice is to "follow the crowd and join the fad". I remember 45 years ago the first branch to be filled was Mechanical Engineering, and now a days it is Computer Science.

My belief is that it is not a good idea to chase a "hot" field unless one has a genuine interest in it and has some specific plans for the future. However, for someone who is not committed to one field, the choice should be made on the basis of long term prospets.

I prefer Mechanical Engieering for someone who is good in math and who wants to keep his options open. Companies are always trying to make smaller and faster devices, and that has made mechanical engineering the most stable field of engineering in times of economic uncertainty. The field provides ample opportunities for an "entrepreneurial" person to pursue his dreams but it also provides a stable career for someone who just wants a decent life. For those who are good in applied math, a B.Tech. in Mech. Eng. followed by M.S. and/or Ph.D. in Industrial Engineering always leads to excellent opportunities. Those with good interpersonal skills can follow with an MBA. Mechanical engineering is really the most versatile field as it overlaps with civil eng. (structures and mechanics), chemical eng. (heat and fluid flow), and electrical eng. (controls ).

The problem I see with computer science is that unless you get out of pure "techie stuff" soon it is not so fun to compete with 20 year olds when you are heading past 40. But, usually the computer types are "boxed in" and they get trapped. Very few people realize that the guy who designed the first PC is now a practicing medical doctor in Atlanta, Georgia. I remmber watching a show on PBS showing the history of PC and the pure techies did the work but did not receive any credit or benefits.

In general, it is a good idea to join a field that offers multiple options for a varity of personality traits. There is a place in mechanical engineering for introverts and extroverts, math geniuses and practical oriented, easy going and workaholics. Most importantly, if all the toppers are concentrated in comp science, it may be lot easier to get a higher rank in mech. eng. and that is critical for future prospects.[/quote]

bnashier
June 21st, 2004, 10:23 AM
Ishwar Ji: Greetings!

Thanks for sharing with us the good news of your nephew’s achievement for selection in IIT. You have actually brought up a very important point in asking for suggestions regarding his choice of a field of study. In this regard I certainly have very concrete suggestions that would be beneficial to any bright person.

1. The right and best thing for people of ability to do is to appeal to their own interest in choosing a career. I could not improve much upon Dr. Birbal Singh Ji’s statement, “I feel intelligent children should be allowed to pursue their own interests and dreams”. We should not compromise with this dictum. People of ability become successful NOT because of a field of work they choose, but due to finding and then concentrating on their discipline of interest. First-rate researchers and contributors in any field are seldom ushered in that field, they are there due to their own choosing and interest. I have followed and practiced this philosophy all my life. Some 32 years ago, I came to that cross road for myself. Most parents wanted their children to become doctors/engineers; and many of my classmates did become. My uncle very much wished and hoped that I would become an IAS officer. I certainly could have studied to become any of those, as I was second to none in almost all exams I appeared for till I completed my M.Sc.(Hons.) in mathematics from Chandigarh. HOWEVER, soon after my matriculation, I appealed to my inner voice for guidance and I realized that I wanted to become a Mathematician. It probably sounded odd to many friends back then but not to me. Rest was history and a very pleasant one.

2. I have applied the same principle to my children. I have thoughtfully refrained from giving advice to my children about their choice of field of study. They have to study according to their interest and only then they will reach a level of satisfaction and accomplishment. My only advice has been and is, “Appeal to yourself and find out what you want to accomplish. I will do my part and you be sincere in your work and everything will be just fine.” And the philosophy is paying off. My daughter just became of an assistant professor in a fine school in California at a very young age of 27. I simply watched her work hard according to her own pace and interests. I only provided her encouragement as need be. I am certain that my conviction will pay off in other cases as well.

3. I can keep on writing but the message will remain the same. In conclusion, your nephew is a bright fellow. He should study any discipline where his interest is the most profound. Then only he will do very well and he will be a satisfied person with much to offer to any society. To predict what will happen in any job market 5 years down the road is a futile exercise. A job to make a living is rarely a burning issue for a bright person. It is the interest and full utilization of one's ability that need attention.

Success is doing what you love and loving what you do.

I wish him well.

dahbal
June 21st, 2004, 10:56 AM
Dear Uncle Ishwar Singh Lambaji,

Congratulations to you,Amit & your whole family for this great achievement!!


Regards,
Balraj Dahiya

Ishwar Singh Lamba (Jun 20, 2004 08:17 p.m.):
Hi All,
My bhatija Amit got in for IIT. He has to choose on 30th June. Looking at the score, he may get Computer Science in IITG, Instrumentation in IITK or Maths & Computing. I have preference for computer science. Can you all help me on this noble cause. I am also an old IITian (1971), waiting for your advice soon.
regards

rkumar
June 21st, 2004, 12:56 PM
I totally agree with what Budh ji has said...If one follows the crowd, one will surely reach a crowded place....Intelligent pleople should follow what they enjoy doing the most...Self life of computer courses is very short..and one has to be be exteremely careful. I know many who never had computers as their
main or even secondary subject, but still made excellent in computers. Salary alone should not be the deciding factor. Intelligent people will always earn enough to live comfortably.

Regards
Rajendra

mbamal
June 21st, 2004, 08:48 PM
uncle Ji,

I agree with the views put up by Dr. Birbal singh, Dr. Budh Nashier and Rajendra Jee. The choice has to be his own and obviously he is intelligent enough to make that choice. He should not be forced to take up something that he doesnt like.

But what you get to study at IITs is not entirely based on your choice but is more or less decided by the rank you get. In that regard only top 100 rankers can "really choose" something. Rest have to choose from what is available. A computer science grad from IIT is definitely not a part of any crowd. only 150 or so odd students out of nearly a million high school passing students get to study comp. sci. at IITs.

Also, choosing comp. sci. does not in any way limits the options. Hardly any graduate from comp. sci. from IIT joins an IT firm like Infosys,TCS or other big software firms. Thats normally the domain of mechanical, chemical or civil engineers. Most of the graduates pursure research oriented careers. Just as an example i can give some stats of 2002 batch of comp sci from iitd. A very few of them are "working" in software companies. 5-6 of them are at microsoft. Many of them joined IIMs and many went abroad for their higher studies in diverse fields such as bio-informatics, theoretical computer science, AI, robotics etc. 7 of them started their own company using the help of techology incubator at iitd. This diversity in career options is in itself a reflection of the numerous career paths one can pursue after graduation.

Also generally your department at IIT is generally considered as an selection crieteria for many non-technical companies that visit IITs for recruitment. Comp sci and elec are normally invited by nearly all the non-technical organizations.

---

maths and computing at iitd is a unique program. Its around 50% mathematics and 50% computer science. This program is also in high demand and normally chosen by students more dispositioned towards mathematics. Career prospects are similar to those of CS graduates.

ajmer
June 21st, 2004, 11:20 PM
Lamba Ji,

Congratulations to Amit for getting selected in IIT. Amit is certainly a bright kid. So no matter what branch he chooses, he is likely to do very well.

I completely agree with you all about letting Amit choose his own option but I am sure he can use some help mainly because even though he is a really bright student, he probably doesn't have all the insight in the various industries and the direction these industries are heading into.

So, Amit's interests should be fully taken into consideration and then his well wishers should guide him accordingly.

I would certainly advise against Comp Sc. This space is really crowded and most importantly you can always do Comp Sc by completing a few extra courses. In Comp Sc it is only the experience which counts. There is only elementry stuff which is tought in Comp Sc courses. I really don't have anything against Comp Sc, I am just stating what I feel about the industry (after working in this area for 15 years). I finished my Master's in Comp Sc. in 1989 when hardly anyone knew and wanted to go into this other than IITs.

If I were Amit (which I am not), I would go for Electrical, Mechanical or (Tele)Communication followed by an MBA. When a kid gets in IIT you want to make him lead in an industry which will be there for long time and which will thrive for long time. Choosing, Electrical or Mechanical will keep his options open for any industry he wants to go into with all his subject fundamentals clear.

I think Communication technologies have much room to grow and the whole communication paradigm is likely to change from the way we see it today. Cell phone is just the beginning.

Thanks.

-ajmer



Ishwar Singh Lamba (Jun 20, 2004 08:17 p.m.):
Hi All,
My bhatija Amit got in for IIT. He has to choose on 30th June. Looking at the score, he may get Computer Science in IITG, Instrumentation in IITK or Maths & Computing. I have preference for computer science. Can you all help me on this noble cause. I am also an old IITian (1971), waiting for your advice soon.
regards

bab_shinoo
June 22nd, 2004, 01:14 AM
Dear Uncle..
My heartiest congratulations to Amit ....I am sure whta ever field he chooses to go, he will do good in it ...I feel its more important to be good at yur work rather than being average in something which is called hot job .....
Babita

srajdeep
June 22nd, 2004, 02:11 AM
Lamba Ji,
I will suggest against comp sci in IIT-G and sending Amit to other older IIT's like IITD, IITK or my loving IIT-Kharagpur. Reason being that, for companies who comes to hire students older iit's are well known while newer aren't. So he will have a better chance of getting a good job.
Amit is a bright kid and he could work hard for one more year and could change the branch once he join any IIT. If he goes to any of the older IIT's which already have reputation of good departments and change department after one year he will be in better position than getting comp sci degree from IITG which is relatively new IIT.
Almost all of IIT students join software companies. So best thing will be have a degree in something other than comp sci so that he will have a more choices in future. As we have already seen comp sci is a good field but it has already gone down and as more and more students are coming out with comp sci degrees demand for IIT graduate is not that high (Why pay an IIT graduate twice than any other person for the same type of job) IIT graduates are considered better in other fields not because they are smarter but because IITs have better facilities that other colleges thus students will have more understanding/exposure to latest technologies.
Let me know if you need more info on IIT kgp. I did my graduation from there in 1998 (ECE). Nitin could provide more info on IIT-D.

regards
rajdeep singh

ishwarlamba
June 22nd, 2004, 04:13 AM
Thank you very much to all of you, Dr Birbal Ji, Mandeep Ji, Budh Ji, Balraj Ji, Rajendra Ji, Ajmer Ji, Babita Ji and Rajdeep Ji for all your kind well wishes for Amit and and very very useful advice. Views of all of us cover different aspects and hence are right and complements of other views. All of we are are lucky members of this international jat family. Also as Budh bhai as mentioned, by this we are getting very good analysis on career selection process and will be useful for our young students. When we talk of selection, many of us even do not know what is available on the menu, then only the choice of selection comes.
Regards

rajenderdahiya
June 22nd, 2004, 03:19 PM
Dear Mr. Ishwar Singh Lambaji,

Congratulations to you, Amit & your family for this great achievement!!

I agree with the advise of Ajmerji, Dr. Birbalji and others who are talking about long term and not to rush after the crowd. As Ajmer wrote, CS is additional qualification which can be achieved at any stage.


Regards,

Rajender Dahiya

ishwarlamba
June 23rd, 2004, 04:09 AM
Thanks Rajinder Ji
regards
--------------------------
Dear Mr. Ishwar Singh Lambaji,

Congratulations to you, Amit & your family for this great achievement!!

I agree with the advise of Ajmerji, Dr. Birbalji and others who are talking about long term and not to rush after the crowd. As Ajmer wrote, CS is additional qualification which can be achieved at any stage.


Regards,

Rajender Dahiya[/quote]

ajaysinghbamel
June 23rd, 2004, 06:58 PM
Uncle Ji,

Congrats uncleji.
regds,
ajaybamel

anilkc
June 24th, 2004, 10:54 AM
Dear Lamba ji, pls convey my Congratulations and best wishes to Amit!!!
Rajdeep brought up a very good point and I fully agree with him, as i used the same logic while joing college abt 15 yrs back. Its location, location, location !
The campus culture, alumuni networking and the campus brand name is more important, All IITs and all IIMs are not same. All cities are not same. I know many of my friends who gave up a seat in IIT to join a 2nd line engring college in Delhi or gave up on a more prestigious course to join a better known campus. And, non have regreted that decision yet.

anujkumar
June 25th, 2004, 01:21 AM
Congratulations to Amit and family,

Great news.

and great suggestions as well.

-A

ishwarlamba
June 25th, 2004, 03:59 AM
Thanks Anil and Anuj
regards

sonalisingh
July 11th, 2004, 12:42 AM
I see too many people saying that one should choose XYZ engineering over computer science/engineering, because all you have to do is take a few programming courses to learn computer science. This is rather naive.

Just like a "luhaar" is no mechanical engineer, and just like a "khaati" is no civil engineer, a mechanical engineer with a few programming courses is no computer scientist.

Sure a mechanical engineer can learn a programming language or two and do low end programming jobs, and in the boom economy of the late 90s might even do quite well.

But under a tighter economy and for high end computer jobs, a mechanical engineer with some programming is no go.

There are too many people with erra-gaeera computer programming diplomas and NIIT courses offering guidance here. Sure, if all these people have been doing is low end application development and web site development (and similar work), they might tend to think the same. Well kuve ka maindak.....you know what I mean !

rkumar
July 11th, 2004, 01:02 AM
Sonali Singh (Jul 10, 2004 03:12 p.m.):
I see too many people saying that one should choose XYZ engineering over computer science/engineering, because all you have to do is take a few programming courses to learn computer science. This is rather naive.

Just like a "luhaar" is no mechanical engineer, and just like a "khaati" is no civil engineer, a mechanical engineer with a few programming courses is no computer scientist.

Sure a mechanical engineer can learn a programming language or two and do low end programming jobs, and in the boom economy of the late 90s might even do quite well.

But under a tighter economy and for high end computer jobs, a mechanical engineer with some programming is no go.

There are too many people with erra-gaeera computer programming diplomas and NIIT courses offering guidance here. Sure, if all these people have been doing is low end application development and web site development (and similar work), they might tend to think the same. Well kuve ka maindak.....you know what I mean !

May be you have better advice to offer Sonali. I am sure you can enlighten us all with your views. I know most of us are kuve ke mendak. I am sure you must be a whale from Ocean and must have seen the whole world and must be knowing about everything. At least guide us as to how you will like us to be..what is your vision on issues facing community..I am sure like me most members will love hearing your views.

Rajendra

sonalisingh
July 11th, 2004, 01:36 AM
Well you just heard some of my views Rajendra. In this particular case, I don't think taking such a narrow view of a whole field is appropriate. What computer engineers do spans a remarkably vast scope. To do a lot of the high end (and financially and intellectually rewarding) work requires some serious computer science training. Taking a misguided view that a view computer science courses is all you need is very short sighted.

Yes, if all one wants is some job, then perhaps you'll survive.

As for other views I'm sure you keep hearing them. I'll try to contribute as and when I have time.

dayvraj
July 20th, 2004, 02:42 PM
Ishwar Singh Lamba (Jun 20, 2004 08:17 p.m.):
Can you all help me on this noble cause. I am also an old IITian (1971), waiting for your advice soon.
regards

Didn't have time up my sleeves to go through the entire thread but by now ur nephew must have done away with the branch thingy .

Neither an advice nor a suggestion but just my humble personal opinion -

The two most important decisions of any person's life , in the decreasing order of priority are -


1.Chosing a career for himself / herself.

2.Chosing a spouse for himself / herself.

If a person needs anybody else's advice to make these two choices , or anybody else's advices / wishes are imposed upon him / her , he / she would be just leading his/ her life , he / she wont be living it .Though it's alltogether a different thing whether the person in question has a taste for leading life or living life.

Putting it with an explicit bluntness - Ek kutta bhee binaa kissi kay salaah mashware kay apne liye ek kutyaa dhoond letaa hai , toh kyu ek paRha likhaa insaan apne aap ko akal say itnaa paidal samajhtaa hai kee 10th kay baad arts , science yeah commerce leni hai , engg may entrance clear karne kay baad comp , mech yeah E&T leni hai et al yeh sub kay faislae karne kay liye usko pehle apne Pehle Mummy , papa , mama , mami , tau , tai , chacha , chachi , , saalay , saadu et al say panchayat karwaani parti hai hore uskay baad panchayat faislaa karegi kee choray nay kay paRhna chaah aage .*ROLLS EYES*

THumbs down to such an ANTI PROACTIVE MIND.*DOWN*

Everyone has his own preferences and priorities in life and as such I just despise and feel pity on those folks who supress or try to supress their child's squeals with their shouts.

For example my bro and I have always had a preference for the place and neither for the branch nor for the Institute and so he had very happily against the wishes of all the family members gone for IITBombay - Chemical than for IITG - Computers and I had opted for Computers in a private college in Pune and had without a moments thought discarded Mechanical from REC Allahabad.Later after the completion of the course he discarded a 10 lac Package from HLL and went to US for his PHD , again against the wishes of our parents - Reason being again it was place which was important for him and not the money.The HLL guys had sent him to their plant in some vague and stupid place in Eastern UP ( can't recall the name).He was suppose to stay there for 2 and a half months but in just a fortnight he packed his bag and baggage and tata good bye to all that crap.

We both find ourselves most alive in a , happening and open environments ie - a lounge of liberals amidst a broad minded gentry than to live in stupid , sluggish , mentally claustrophobic and constipated places - ie a coterie of conservatives like Guwahati or Allahabad.*DOWN*

Today both of us are simply elated for the decisions we took against the wishes of our folks .We r just glad that we had those guts and sense to know whats good for us and whats not , what we like and what we don't like .

Sorry if it offends someone or appears as an attempt at digression / derailing.

sonalisingh
July 20th, 2004, 07:03 PM
Courage often comes when one KNOWS what one wants. The tough part is often knowing what one wants/needs.


Dayvraj (Jul 20, 2004 05:23 a.m.):
Today both of us are simply elated for the decisions we took against the wishes of our folks .We r just glad that we had those guts and sense to know whats good for us and whats not , what we like and what we don't like .

Sorry if it offends someone or appears as an attempt at digression / derailing.

rahul_malik23
July 20th, 2004, 07:38 PM
Dayvraj,

You have a valid point regarding making own decision.
But there is no harm in taking advice (or in explicit bluntness "calling a panchayat") as long as one is sticking with what he likes/wants? As Sonali also mentioned that it's important that the person should know what he wants.

Sometime advice might help a person to make a better judgement. But most important thing is that final decision should be his/her own (Thats what i feel you want to convey).

On lighter note : "Ek kutta bhee binaa kissi kay salaah mashware kay apne liye ek kutyaa dhoond letaa hai..."
It seems to be typical Bambaiya dialogue from some movie (so-called happening place). Nothing personal Dayvraj. Just a little expectation from a fellow jat bhai to be more thoughtful in his choice of words.

best regards,
Rahul



[quote]Dayvraj (Jul 20, 2004 05:23 a.m.):
..........
Putting it with an explicit bluntness - Ek kutta bhee binaa kissi kay salaah mashware kay apne liye ek kutyaa dhoond letaa hai , toh kyu ek paRha likhaa insaan apne aap ko akal say itnaa paidal samajhtaa hai kee 10th kay baad arts , science yeah commerce leni hai , engg may entrance clear karne kay baad comp , mech yeah E&T leni hai et al yeh sub kay faislae karne kay liye usko pehle apne Pehle Mummy , papa , mama , mami , tau , tai , chacha , chachi , , saalay , saadu et al say panchayat karwaani parti hai hore uskay baad panchayat faislaa karegi kee choray nay kay paRhna chaah aage .*ROLLS EYES*

.......
.......
We both find ourselves most alive in a , happening and open environments ie - a lounge of liberals amidst a broad minded gentry than to live in stupid , sluggish , mentally claustrophobic and constipated places - ie a coterie of conservatives like Guwahati or Allahabad.*DOWN*
....
....

rkumar
July 20th, 2004, 07:40 PM
[quote]Sonali Singh (Jul 20, 2004 09:33 a.m.):
Courage often comes when one KNOWS what one wants. The tough part is often knowing what one wants/needs.

[quote][b]

Umm...high end philosphy... Dont think so knowing alone is enough to make one courageous. Most people know what they want or what they need. It is the degree of need and lack of compromise with anything other than what one wants, is the basis of courage....week people often compromise their needs and the strong ones go for fuylfilling them. Its like a lion who will not eat grass at the end of day even if hungry and will wait till he gets his lion share...

Rajendra

dayvraj
July 21st, 2004, 01:19 PM
Advice when most needed is least heeded .

Nothing can be taught , everything has to be learnt.

I personally hold that perspectives from various people NOT their Advices can be of a great help in taking an informed decision but at the same time dude in this case it wasn't the nephew who was seeking perspectives or advices , it is his uncle who is seeking them for the nephew and it appeared that the uncle is interested in imposing his decision .

What I find mind boglingly uncomfortable and appalingly unbelievable to accept is the fact that the Uncle himself who claims to be an ex IITian and possesses a head of silver hair oozing wisdom ( as seems from his avatar) himself doesnt considers himself fit for holding a personal perspective on the issue .

May be I am sounding somewhat conceited / condescending or giving the glimpse of a patronizing attitude but honestly speaking I HATE to say that I just feel pity on him .What makes me feel more tch tch tch is the fact that somewhere in the archives I read that he is living / lived abroad and still such an unconfident approach towards a promising prospect .* THUMBS DOWN AGAIN*

It is amongst the most fundamental of all my beliefs that "Never give an advice in charity , unless the person who needs it actually asks for it himself and before asking for it proves to you with a rational logic that why does he considers that seeking your advice would help him take an informed decision"

Nowhere in the thread it appeared that it's the nephew who is seeking the advice .May be the nephew doesn't have web access but then in that case the thread started should have presented the scenario accordingly .Something like ...

My nephew wants to take an informed decision while opting for a branch / institute / place and since he doesnt have web access he has requested me to do the same for him .Here is his personal perspective on the thing and in the para below is my personal perspective as an ex IITian .These are his parents / folks/ friend's / pallies /Rellies perspectives .These are his and our priorities in the dictionary.com format and these are his and our long term and short term goals and targets in life .THis is what his heart says and this is what his head says .He is in a dilemma and so needs to consider things in more details and accordingly weigh the pros and cons of the same and thereby take a straight smart / street smart decision which in future would make him feel glad.Consequently I invite you all to come up with your loud and proud views;).




Rahul Malik (Jul 20, 2004 10:19 a.m.):
Dayvraj,

You have a valid point regarding making own decision.
But there is no harm in taking advice (or in explicit bluntness "calling a panchayat") as long as one is sticking with what he likes/wants? As Sonali also mentioned that it's important that the person should know what he wants.

Sometime advice might help a person to make a better judgement. But most important thing is that final decision should be his/her own (Thats what i feel you want to convey).

On lighter note : "Ek kutta bhee binaa kissi kay salaah mashware kay apne liye ek kutyaa dhoond letaa hai..."
It seems to be typical Bambaiya dialogue from some movie (so-called happening place). Nothing personal Dayvraj. Just a little expectation from a fellow jat bhai to be more thoughtful in his choice of words.

Pardner it's simply a practical and pragmatic thing and trust me I don't owe these words to plagiarism .Everything original ( May be thought provoking and interesting too )

I just presented my personal views on the subject , if they sounded rude or crude and me apologising for the same would cheerish even a single soul then mhaari us bhalay maanas say dono haath joR kay praarthnaa haigi kee taau mainNay baalak samajh kay maaphi dae day .

*CHEERS*

dayvraj
July 21st, 2004, 02:01 PM
without even a moments thinking I would have filled the counselling sheet as

IITB - Any branch in the following order

Computer , electrical , Chemical , Mechanical , Instrumentation ,

CHemical before Mechanical as work load / hours / week are minimum in Chemical and computers .

My Priorities
1.PLACE
2.BRANCH
3.INSTITUTE.



But then to each one his / her own thoughts .

ishwarlamba
July 22nd, 2004, 08:31 AM
Dayvraj Beta,
Thanks for your nice advice.
That was the whole purpose to get more information from people.
There are lot of people specially the young blood like on this site who have helped us.
Also old in not always gold, but at this age of 60 I can say that one should be bit careful in choice of the words and this becomes more inportant when writting.
with love
Ishwar Lamba
-------------------------------------
without even a moments thinking I would have filled the counselling sheet as

IITB - Any branch in the following order

Computer , electrical , Chemical , Mechanical , Instrumentation ,

CHemical before Mechanical as work load / hours / week are minimum in Chemical and computers .

My Priorities
1.PLACE
2.BRANCH
3.INSTITUTE.



But then to each one his / her own thoughts .[/quote]

mbamal
July 22nd, 2004, 02:11 PM
I sometimes wonder how can anyone like or live in a city in which he is sure to be confronted by the worst conditions of humanity on this planet (read 7 million jhuggi walas),filthy beaches..every day!...I would choose Delhi over B'bay and IITD over IITB anyday!...only my personal opinion..!

bab_shinoo
July 22nd, 2004, 11:50 PM
I seriously dont understand why sonali and Dayvraj have taken the topic in a diff. direction ...
Sonali, I strongly belive what ever you do, two things are important; you need to love what you are doing and you need to have knowledge abt what you are doing. There is no job higher than other. As I realise you are a lawyer, you might be too good in using words, but this is a simple truth of what is called perfect work for a person. What ever you do, doesnt matter. I was really surprised to read the way you compared mechanical engg, computer engg. and the word u used ("kuve ka maindak") for some of the members at Jatland. When makes you an expert to say such a thing abt other ppl. Would you like it, if I being an IITian and doing my research on what is being called "Hot Research" ,look down on your work and position? I am sure there are many ppl on this site who have graduated from grt universities (in India/USA), and who are at really high positions, if everyone starts doing this, the whole reason of being a member of this site is lost. I expect you to know every one has a right to expression, and all these members were trying to be helpful in what ever way they can be to Lamba uncle.
I am an ex-IITian and its been only two yrs since I graduated ....if my brother/sis goes for IIT in the coming 5-8 yrs, I will ask the same questions. Dept. rankings/Profs/research/courses offered change at the speed you cant imagine....n Lamba uncle graduaated 30 yrs back, believe me things have changed a lot since then.
I remember my self 6 yrs back, I was in the same state as Amit is today,I liked eveything; chemistry, physics, mechanics, maths, programming ..almost everything ....It gets tough to decide, you r a kid after all ...you need ppls view point, then you analyze things yurself n then you make a decision ....
Its my personal request to you, not to use statements which can offend members on this site, specially where there are ppl much older to us.
So, lamba uncle, what did Amit decide.
Babita

sonalisingh
July 23rd, 2004, 08:02 AM
Babita:

What on earth are you talking about ? Did you even read the posts before you started foaming at the mouth ?

You were correct in one aspect. I am not too shabby with words. I have to admit guilt here. So, "Guilty as charged your honor! Please pardon me."

But, honestly, given your fine education I would have expected you to have acquired finer comprehension skills. Where did things go wrong ? You don't seem to have a clue to the gist of what was being said !

I'd rather not waste too much time on this. So lets just give it one more try, and then that's it. Go ahead and try reading the thread once more and see if we can do better this time. Make sure you read right from the start. We wouldn't want to miss anything, would we now ?

Let me know how things go. We can talk further after that. I am sure you can do this right, the second time around.

Sonali

PS: If I am not mistaken weren't you studying Physics in IITD some time back ? Slightly on the darker side ? I heard you had a good shoulder on your head (no ! I typed that correctly, ha ha ). It's a small world, especially amongst us Jats, isn't it ?

How is Uncle Dhayal doing ? Its been ages since I last saw him ! He must really be proud of his little girl.

And oh yes, if I seem a bit tough with my words do overlook it, won't you dear ? I guess it comes with being a lawyer. We don't win those cases by being polite. I'm sure you comprehend (oh no ! there I go again.)

Also, you might want to skip the advice regarding elders and so on. I think I can manage on my own. Would really appreciate that !

So shhwweet !

[quote]Babita (Jul 22, 2004 02:20 p.m.):
I seriously dont understand why sonali and Dayvraj have taken the topic in a diff. direction ...

[...A whole lot of mumbo jumbo deleted....]

anujkumar
July 23rd, 2004, 10:13 AM
Practical Humor:

There is statistically significant evidence that a female to female war of words on Jatland is more likely than any other combination thereof.

dahbal
July 23rd, 2004, 10:40 AM
Hi Everybody,

First of all we all should be happy that someone of us got selected in IIT.That is the great news for our community.How many of our community student get admission in IIT everyyear?Only a few!!

Here someone is asking advice regarding the selection of careers not the useless arguments on it. Nobody is forcing here that you give your advice here.If you have some good idea and wanna share then you should.Otherwise I think there is no need to do argument which is of no helpful to anyone except subject of word fighting.
Save your enery for some great work also.

Please don't mind it.

-Balraj

sonalisingh
July 23rd, 2004, 11:56 AM
Balraj:

Discussion/arguments/points and counter points are a normal part of discussions. I think it is okay to express our opinions. Some of us do so vigorously, others in more subdued manner. That's just the way forums of this nature work.

As long as generally acceptable decorum and decency is maintained I don't see any harm in saying what we think. Let us not make these forums so sterile that nobody has anything to say, out of politeness for the others.

It seems that every second person here starts giving advice on what words to use, how to address elders and so on. Maybe folks here differ, but when I read something, all I see is the words, not who wrote them, or how old that person is.

Let people have some leeway in how/what they want to say. That is what brings interesting issues out, not some strictly enforced code of conduct where every little deviance causes the "Behaviour Police" to wave their batons.


[quote]Balraj Dahiya (Jul 23, 2004 01:10 a.m.):


Here someone is asking advice regarding the selection of careers not the useless arguments on it.

bab_shinoo
July 23rd, 2004, 08:45 PM
Thanks sonali for these "beautiful" words....YES I have a head on my shoulders and YES Sonali my Dad is very pround of his little girl ....and I hope to continue in a way tht always will make him proud of me ....and yes, this post of yurs tells me a lot abt yur broad attitude
PS: Its not easy to get things right in one's life, some try to work on it, some like it that way !!!!!




Sonali Singh (Jul 22, 2004 10:37 p.m.):
Babita:

What on earth are you talking about ? Did you even read the posts before you started foaming at the mouth ?

You were correct in one aspect. I am not too shabby with words. I have to admit guilt here. So, "Guilty as charged your honor! Please pardon me."

But, honestly, given your fine education I would have expected you to have acquired finer comprehension skills. Where did things go wrong ? You don't seem to have a clue to the gist of what was being said !

I'd rather not waste too much time on this. So lets just give it one more try, and then that's it. Go ahead and try reading the thread once more and see if we can do better this time. Make sure you read right from the start. We wouldn't want to miss anything, would we now ?

Let me know how things go. We can talk further after that. I am sure you can do this right, the second time around.

Sonali

PS: If I am not mistaken weren't you studying Physics in IITD some time back ? Slightly on the darker side ? I heard you had a good shoulder on your head (no ! I typed that correctly, ha ha ). It's a small world, especially amongst us Jats, isn't it ?

How is Uncle Dhayal doing ? Its been ages since I last saw him ! He must really be proud of his little girl.

And oh yes, if I seem a bit tough with my words do overlook it, won't you dear ? I guess it comes with being a lawyer. We don't win those cases by being polite. I'm sure you comprehend (oh no ! there I go again.)

Also, you might want to skip the advice regarding elders and so on. I think I can manage on my own. Would really appreciate that !

So shhwweet !

[quote]Babita (Jul 22, 2004 02:20 p.m.):
I seriously dont understand why sonali and Dayvraj have taken the topic in a diff. direction ...

[...A whole lot of mumbo jumbo deleted....]

sonalisingh
July 23rd, 2004, 09:17 PM
Always there for you, dear. Apno kay liye nahin toh kiske liye ?

[quote]Babita (Jul 23, 2004 11:15 a.m.):
Thanks sonali for these "beautiful" words....

shokeen123
July 24th, 2004, 01:28 AM
Babita:

Indeed you have a good head on your shoulders, a kind heart and the basic human decency...and yes, any father will be proud of a daughter like you!

Best wishes!

Sujata

ishwarlamba
July 26th, 2004, 05:16 AM
Babita Beta,
Thanks for putting my thread on the right track.
I am very happy to know u are are also from IITD.
Are you related to my friend Sh Narain Singh Dhayal working for Iindian Standards
With regards
Ishwar Lamba
----------------------------------
I seriously dont understand why sonali and Dayvraj have taken the topic in a diff. direction ...
Sonali, I strongly belive what ever you do, two things are important; you need to love what you are doing and you need to have knowledge abt what you are doing. There is no job higher than other. As I realise you are a lawyer, you might be too good in using words, but this is a simple truth of what is called perfect work for a person. What ever you do, doesnt matter. I was really surprised to read the way you compared mechanical engg, computer engg. and the word u used ("kuve ka maindak") for some of the members at Jatland. When makes you an expert to say such a thing abt other ppl. Would you like it, if I being an IITian and doing my research on what is being called "Hot Research" ,look down on your work and position? I am sure there are many ppl on this site who have graduated from grt universities (in India/USA), and who are at really high positions, if everyone starts doing this, the whole reason of being a member of this site is lost. I expect you to know every one has a right to expression, and all these members were trying to be helpful in what ever way they can be to Lamba uncle.
I am an ex-IITian and its been only two yrs since I graduated ....if my brother/sis goes for IIT in the coming 5-8 yrs, I will ask the same questions. Dept. rankings/Profs/research/courses offered change at the speed you cant imagine....n Lamba uncle graduaated 30 yrs back, believe me things have changed a lot since then.
I remember my self 6 yrs back, I was in the same state as Amit is today,I liked eveything; chemistry, physics, mechanics, maths, programming ..almost everything ....It gets tough to decide, you r a kid after all ...you need ppls view point, then you analyze things yurself n then you make a decision ....
Its my personal request to you, not to use statements which can offend members on this site, specially where there are ppl much older to us.
So, lamba uncle, what did Amit decide.
Babita[/quote]

ishwarlamba
July 26th, 2004, 05:19 AM
All,
Finally Amit is joining IITR will be doing Electrical Engineering

I am very thankful to all of you who have contributed for this noble cause.
Because Amit did not have a email, I had printed this thread and all other emails on this subject and posted him.
I am happy that Amit will be joining with my friend Dr Prem Vrat, Director IIT Roorkee
Regards
Ishwar Lamba

bnashier
July 26th, 2004, 07:04 AM
Ishwar Ji:

Good luck to the bright young fellow for his choice. Along with the lines I had posted in post #6, what will really matter now is the amount of knowledge he acquires during his course of study and the amount of interest he develops in what he does. That is what will define and shape his future.

I wish him a happy journey during the course of his studies.




Ishwar Singh Lamba (Jul 25, 2004 07:59 p.m.):
All,
Finally Amit is joining IITR will be doing Electrical Engineering

I am very thankful to all of you who have contributed for this noble cause.
Because Amit did not have a email, I had printed this thread and all other emails on this subject and posted him.
I am happy that Amit will be joining with my friend Dr Prem Vrat, Director IIT Roorkee
Regards
Ishwar Lamba

ajmer
July 26th, 2004, 11:31 AM
Congratulations and best wishes for Amit on hist choice.

Folks, this thread is not as much for Amit as it is to dicscuss the current trends and career choices for young Jat boys and girls as well as disemination of information and thinkings of some of the very educated Jat professional on this site. How else do you come into contact of such a wonderful group of professionals from all sorts of fields, with all kind of backgrounds, at various stages of their career and with varied level experinces. What a wonderful site and Thanks to Ch. Lamba Ji for initiating this thread.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. What a wonderful experience.

-ajmer

dayvraj
July 26th, 2004, 09:32 PM
What is the point and logic in getting pissed off over such a trivial thing as an online spat and that too on a person whom you have never even met or spoken to in life and chances are you'll never like to meet them .( though it's alltogether a different thing that once you get to meet them in person you might be singing a different tune ).
Trust me you'll benefit a lot in life if you chose DAyvz Philosophy -

"Sticks and stones might break Dayvz bones but words can never hurt him"

*Pats Sonali and takes the ring side seat*

Popcorns Anybody ?

dayvraj
July 26th, 2004, 09:46 PM
Incase you don't like it , please do daanto me for my poor taste .

Babita Babbo , it's entirely my personal belief that one really is into subconscious mental masochism ( a masochism without the ailer's knowledge) if one gets hurt by someone's words.

* before I am flooded with hate mails ,the word masochism , not meant in the literal sense but in the metaphorical sense*

sonalisingh
July 27th, 2004, 09:12 AM
Dayvy tries to flatter Sonali. Needs to work at it...but still gets some credit for trying...

*Wink, Wink and a Whack !*

palsaniya
July 27th, 2004, 04:33 PM
Fisrt of all Congrate Lamba ji!!!!
i m late to advice...
Instrumentation in IITK is best option.

Regards,
Rc
B.TECH. IIT KGP (Mechanical)

cooljat
July 28th, 2004, 11:11 PM
Hi! Babita,
Whassup!

Well, I really appreciate these words of wisdom, which ur expressed in the post –

“IT’S NOT EASY TO GET THINGS RIGHT IN ONE'S LIFE, SOME TRY TO WORK ON IT, SOME LIKE IT THAT WAY!”

100% absolute truth….couple of Jats here also consider themselves super-genius & over- smart. So let them pamper themselves and stay happy on the cloud no-9, we should ignore them and move ahead.
Before ending wanna add some words of wisdom from my side as well-

“NEVER TRY TO WRESTLE A SWINE COZ’ IT’LL MAKE U GRUBBY
AND IT LIKES IT AS WELL”

U perhaps already know it.
Besides, when u getting back to pink city??!!


Take care,
Ram Ram!!!

Rock on,
Jit.


[quote]Babita (Jul 23, 2004 11:15 a.m.):
PS: Its not easy to get things right in one's life, some try to work on it, some like it that way !!!!!

sonalisingh
July 29th, 2004, 09:45 AM
Kya rey Jitu. Tujhe bhee diplomacy aa gayee rey. Kucch tayda tayda baat kar raha sae.
Bada shyaana ho gaya hae. :-)


[quote]Jitendra Mehta (Jul 28, 2004 01:41 p.m.):
100% absolute truth….couple of Jats here also consider themselves super-genius & over- smart. So let them pamper themselves and stay happy on the cloud no-9, we should

cooljat
July 29th, 2004, 11:31 PM
thank u, shukariya, dhanywad!

rock on,
Jit

Sonali Singh (Jul 29, 2004 12:15 a.m.):
Kya rey Jitu. Tujhe bhee diplomacy aa gayee rey. Kucch tayda tayda baat kar raha sae.
Bada shyaana ho gaya hae. :-)


[quote]Jitendra Mehta (Jul 28, 2004 01:41 p.m.):
100% absolute truth….couple of Jats here also consider themselves super-genius & over- smart. So let them pamper themselves and stay happy on the cloud no-9, we should

dayvraj
July 30th, 2004, 02:25 PM
Sonali Singh (Jul 26, 2004 11:42 p.m.):
Dayvy tries to flatter Sonali. Needs to work at it...but still gets some credit for trying...

*Wink, Wink and a Whack !*

*Gives Dayvy a creepy feeling that his shonu dawling loves flattery to an extent that she requires an applause when she farts*

gary
August 18th, 2004, 09:11 AM
Dear Sir,

If I am not wrong then you are from Sydney, father of Ruchi !

am i correct.

gary
August 18th, 2004, 09:12 AM
Dear Sir,

If I am not wrong then you are from Sydney, father of Ruchi !

am i correct.

ishwarlamba
August 18th, 2004, 04:14 PM
Thanks Beniwal Ji, yes I am father of Ruchi
How are u
regards
Ishwar Lamba
---------------------------

G.R.Beniwal (Aug 17, 2004 11:42 p.m.):
Dear Sir,

If I am not wrong then you are from Sydney, father of Ruchi !

am i correct.

gary
August 29th, 2004, 11:52 PM
Yes uncle,
we are fine, hope you would be all fine with family,

with best regards,

G.R.Beniwal
CA

nirmalkumar
September 9th, 2004, 01:45 AM
Dear Lambaji,

Congates for the great success of Amit.

regards,
--Nirmal

sandeepdangi
September 12th, 2004, 07:06 PM
uncle ji,

congratulations for such a great achievement
of your nephew.