Faith in man or faith in God?

[navingulia]

A man or a book written and printed by man, tells you what God wants from you. Man says "have faith in God, believe what i am saying".

You have faith but is it faith in man or faith in God.

Because God never told you what he wants, man did and you believed him i.e you believed man not God.

Man is playing this shrewd game 'Have faith' to excercise his influence over as large a population as possible, dividing the people against each other. Inciting hatred.

If God is there, he is got to be perfect. Right?

If he is perfect, he wont be praise hungry, power hungry, offerings hungry, jealous....
Right?

He wouldnot be pleased by superficial rituals.
Right?

What would a God, who is perfection, ask from us?
That we be good human beings.
(or would he ask for rituals, how we bow and pray or how we keep beard or hair or weather we wear bangle, cross or tilak)

Do we need God to tell us how to be good human beings? Cant we make out a good human being when we meet one?

Compassion, understanding, love, helping each other, gentleness, respect for each other.... Do we need God to tell us these things?

For God's sake, let us all be good human beings first.

Today man is destroying the earth by pollution and overpopulation, destroying the mother nature and he is happy that he is building temples, mosques and churches to please God. He is just pleasing himself.

[yatinder19]

Navi Bhaai
Bahut achhi baatein likhi hain...Ye aapka God ke saath ladaai kab tak chalta rahega :D:D:eek:...Jokes apart...
Lekin Aapki AAdhi baatein meri samajh main nahin aati...

[sidchhikara]

Navin Bhai,
I believe in the fact that you cannot pray for something and get it. Every good or bad thing that happens to you has an explanation for it. All our life we interact with our surroundings physically and mentally and because of that interaction things happen to us - or we deliberately make them happen. When least probable things happen to us we call it bad luck or maybe some people blame God, when good things happen we call it good luck and thank God for it.

[shekhar_nehra]

Naveen Bhai
[1: A man or a book written and printed by man, tells you what God wants from you. Man says "have faith in God, believe what i am saying". ]

It is not the process how book got printed, but what motivated a person to document some general principles, guidelines of goodness. He rose above day to day struggles ( be it GautamBudh, Mnnu , Mohammad or GuruNanak or any one else you or me for that matter) and single mindedly under the influence of some supreme power came up with some suggestions, guidelines to the best of his belief, with pure heart. He is just a means of supreme power to get something done.


[2 :You have faith but is it faith in man or faith in God.]

Faith in universally accepted principles of society.

[3 :Because God never told you what he wants, man did and you believed him i.e you believed man not God.]

Do not accept any thing blindly just because it was told to you , apply your own reasoning. It appeals to you follow that generally accepted principle else not.

[4 :Man is playing this shrewd game 'Have faith' to exercise his influence over as large a population as possible, dividing the people against each other. Inciting hatred.]

This happens only if you accept the things blindly. You call a pundit for havan , give him some dakshna and do not understand a single word of the sholaka he chants. The problem is with you, who believes what ever pundit/maulvi/priest told you. You are letting your self to be misused.

[5 :If God is there, he is got to be perfect. Right?]

In deed there is some orderliness in this universe , the rotation of Earth around Sun for example which leads the phenomenon of Day and Night. This supreme power [Orderliness and un-orderliness in it (varying time of Day, Night and Summers winters] This power may be called GOD.

[6 :If he is perfect, he wont be praise hungry, power hungry, offerings hungry, jealous....
Right? ]

Not at all ! It is very immature to see this power and apply these adjectives to it.

[7 :He would not be pleased by superficial rituals.
Right? ]

No he won't be if you are just doing something for the sake of doing it. You are not true to yourself. Do what ever you feel is right you have the right to choose your actions.


[8 :What would a God, who is perfection, ask from us?
That we be good human beings.
(or would he ask for rituals, how we bow and pray or how we keep beard or hair or weather we wear bangle, cross or tilak)]

He just want’s you to live and let others live. What ever hurts you will hurt others. What ever makes you truly happy will make any other person also happy in a similar situation. Follow simple rules .That is the bottom line.

[9 : Do we need God to tell us how to be good human beings? Cant we make out a good human being when we meet one? ]

God does not want you to be good, you have choice of action. Its the same person who under the influence of supreme power come up with some principles.. he just proposes its up to you to accept it. It’s up to you to accept it or not. Good and Bad are relative. What ever makes you good may make some else even more good that you and you bad as compared to him!


[10 :"Compassion, understanding, love, helping each other, gentleness, respect for each other.... Do we need God to tell us these things? ]

These are your generally accepted traits of being good. You will find almost all of them in all religious books. It is not about reading it daily but practicing them daily in your life that matters.

[11 :For God's sake, let us all be good human beings first.]

You may only request someone to follow these guidelines but not force him or her. We will still be humans by default no matter what we do. We will do what ever appeals us and we are in control of our lives and take responsibility of our actions.


[12 :Today man is destroying the earth by pollution and overpopulation, destroying the mother nature and he is happy that he is building temples, mosques and churches to please God. He is just pleasing himself]

God has given you the choice of action and you are doing what ever you want, be it creating all kind of pollutions , we all use automobiles that pollute air , plastics that do not degrade etc.. We are moving away from GOD by moving away from ourselves we go to temple join hands before a stone statue and crib and we think all our prayers will be answered, some of them do get answered! Is it not a miracle!! We never do what our heart says which is nothing but what we call God in ourselves.


Regards
Shekhar

[poonam]

Hey Navin, tum to bhagwaan ke peechhey haath dho ke padd gae....bechara koon main laag liya hoga...hehehe...:D

Yeah, but on a serious note, agreed with what you said. Moreover, jats never believed, I guess, in God as such. Dont remember if in olden times (times when there was not much of show off business) jats were ever involved even in idol worship..!

[shekhar_nehra]

Hey Navin, tum to bhagwaan ke peechhey haath dho ke padd gae....bechara koon main laag liya hoga...hehehe...:D

Yeah, but on a serious note, agreed with what you said. Moreover, jats never believed, I guess, in God as such. Dont remember if in olden times (times when there was not much of show off business) jats were ever involved even in idol worship..!


Jats in general always belived in God[exceptions may be there]. They never belived in Idol worship only after they were convenced by Arya Samaj's teachings which was formed in 1875.

Regards
Shekhar

[navingulia]

Bhai Shekhar,
Its important to note why i said what i did say.
There is tremendous hatred and disrespect in this world over religion. You are speculating about what mohammad said, you are speculating he was divine or had divine effect on him. No, he was not. He had an army and he tried to capture as much of the world as possible. The laws that he stated in quran i.e chopping off a thiefs hand, stoning to death, women wearing burqa, circumcising, keeping beard, wearing cap, - For Gods sake, these things were not said under influence of God or by rising above human level of thoughts. It is written over 1000 times in the bible and Quran that God is very jealous of anyone who prays to any other form of God and God will severly punish those who do pray to anyone else.
These are not words of God.
I have been writing because I want to remove hatred, promote love, compassion, understanding and respect for each other. That is the only thing which can make this world a better place.
There are a billion people inciting hatred in this world, we definitely need a few who can promote love, compassion, understanding and respect for each other.
Bhai, negating every point i said doesnt solve any purpose. I have no ulterior motives.
Regards
Navin Gulia

[navingulia]

Bhai Yatinder and Poonam
mai God ke peechhe nahin padya, mai to logon ke peechhe padya huun ki 'for God's sake, pyar prem se rah lo'

Poonam, you are right, jats actions have never been defined by God. They never fought battles for God and they never built temples of gold where schedule caste are not allowed. Their Godly rituals only involve saying 'ram ram' when they meet and going for mata dhokna once in many years.

[dskadyan]

Hey Gulia, What a good and Deep thought that its men commands men. its men who is telling what God is ,all Good and Bad things,behaviour .I didnt get this idea a single time earlier and i bet 90 % of us will be like me ( i left 10% because Jaat dont admit easily that he dont know something!! Just kidding). But now raise a toast for mankind who have such a abstract thinking and than the followers who give a thought to all this and praise a good thought. And hey All, we all believe in a mankind more than anything becuase an human being knows better of the mind of mankind than anything else.

So now i am 100 % sure that every mankind is form of God and there is nothing bad in believing in a man.

And some of us who dont believe in God are doing just because we dont want someone with equal to ourselves will have command on us. SO good news Either you believe in GOD or MANKIND or yourself but you are not "nastik" at all.

Dev

[navingulia]

Devender Sir, Thanks for appreciating.

[shekhar_nehra]

Naveen bhai , I never wanted to negate your points and I have not done so for all points either.... I have just provided my understanding / views on the points raised by you because I could not connect what you wanted to convey.

Please note being a Hindu I am tolerant and open for tark vitark and frankly speaking I do not know what is written in Quran , so can not comment on it but would like to point what ever you are saying about Islam does not spread love either.

So when I see some female in burqua or man with beard and cap , I am least bothered about his/her get up as long as the person is good in his/her deeds. It is none of my business what rituals he follows. As far as Bible is concerned it says "Hate the Sin not the Sinner".

All I want to say is that the fault is with us who never read any Religious book ourseves and have our own interpretation of it , instead we believe in what ever is told to us by by people who are in business of selling religion. If you have any preconceived notion about any religion, class , sect then you can not spread love. But the fact remains we all live in same world. For you to be right the other one need not be wrong .We both may be right at the same time. :)


Regards
Shekhar

[navingulia]

Bhai shekhar mere bhai, you are right, we both and in fact every one is right in his own way.
I read these books and when i found these things i realised why so much hatred in the world.
Why budhist dont fight or spread terroris? because their religion doesnot teach them violence.
One billion muslims are told that quran is the word of god and what God wants. and when some one reads it, he reads, this is the only true God, you should die fighting for him. Blasphemy, stone to death. How do you expect peace to happen. Fear is the factor. People are so scared, they dare not say anything against islam.
Hinduism is reffered to as 'mythology' everywhere in public and media but you try reffering to quran or bible as mythology and see what will happen to you.
We keep our mouth shut.
But those who want to use islam for causing violence dont. They teach violence and hatred in madarsa's and around the globe.
We choose to keep quiet not because we respect quran but because we are scared.

I dont believe in man made religions, they only cause mutual distrust, disrespect and hatred.

Hinduism, itself has so many kuritis in it. Ritualism, temples and idols of gold. Caste system, kshudras. Yes, the good thing is that hinduism has given us the right to question and thats why we both are able to question ourselves.

Budhism gives you a right to question and in fact just like vedas, you are encouraged to question so that you discover truth. But Bible and Quran specifically say, dont even dare to question a word coz this is word of God.

Recently in a tv show the hindu gurus and muslim gurus were talking and the hindu guru said "we should sit together and remove from our religions the things which cause conflict amongst us"
The muslim cleric said "We will not change a single alphabet or even a dot. You change watever you want in your religion"

None of these religions can bring peace, hindus, christians and muslims fight within themselves also and with each other also.

I, luckily, am just a human being. I am not a hindu, nor a christian, nor a muslim.

The world needs to realise human values. We need to be humans.

[navingulia]

We need to evolve more in our thinking to realise the common good of the world.

We need to get out of these animalistic genes which make us try to gain more and more power.

[devdahiya]

We need to evolve more in our thinking to realise the common good of the world.

We need to get out of these animalistic genes which make us try to gain more and more power.


Greed is born with the cord Naveen.Greed breeds selfishness;selfishness leads to accumulation;then comes the intoxication called wealth;and wealth motivates one to dominate others in shape of power[which is blind and as such sees no reason] and then starts the ruin...for sure......history is full of such people....But we all stay in the rat race knowing fully well that even if we win that race we remain the rats still.Anyways nice thoughts dear...keep it up!

[ranvirsingh]

For God's sake, let us all be good human beings first.




Are Naveen Bhai...so you ended up where you did not want.

It does not matter who wrote the book, what matters is the content and how the reader takes it. It depends on our own mentality. It's we who have a desire and prejudice. Nature has it's own set rules and change is one of them, change with time.

Who ever wrote the book on a God or a human being portraying him to be God, was extremely influenced by that personality or he created a personality which he thought was ideal. The Hero of that book definitely has something in it, that it influenced so many of us to follow his path. We have to look upon in which context and in which situation the book was written. Man donot make God but a man becomes God by his actions. It's we who elevate such a person to give him/her status of God. We only have a limited life span, so to comment on those books talking about ancient God/ Goddesses will be premature.

Not going into the past, just take the exaple of one like Mahatma Budh. He is a God today because he did something good and preached something good. But was he a perfect man? No, he even did not care about his family. Thats how it depends on us how we take them. I may say how he can be God when he even did not care about his duty as a husband or father. But then we cannot ignore what he did!



Now comming to praise hungry, power hungry etc etc. Who praises him? We do. Its not God who is power or praise hungry, its mankind who thinks that by praising him exclusively, he/she will get everything he wish. It's our greed that forces us to praise him rather than following the path shown by him. How many people worship Sri Krishn and how many of them have read Gita. Is that worship worth it or going to be fruitful when they donot know the path shown by Sri Krishn. In such a situation we think that just by praising God we will get everything but its not going to happen. We saw a person crying of pain because unfortunately he met an accident. But many of us honked the horn and passed by watching the scene of that ailing soul. One day something happened with us and no one came to help in time, then we blame God and it's creation, man. How can we be so selfish and prejudice? Newtons 3rd law apply every where, If we want comfort then we have to take the pain to help someone in discomfort. Here the law applies with a delayed reaction time and thats what we call Karam Phal.


God is not a fool sitting on the 9th cloud who enjoys giving pain to us, he was one day among us and did something that we made him God. We donot pray to God, we pray to the path shown by him. By praying we kind of take an oath to follow his path and help mankind. None of these Gods never promised anything coming our way magically just by praying them, They themselves faced a rough path and so should we expect. Many of us exploit on the name of God and preach the people in wrong way and thats where the problem lies. We need not beware of God but beware of those who exploit on the name of God.

[navingulia]

Ranvir sir,
1. I deliberately used the words "for God's sake" to convey that if people want to do something for God at all, please be good human beings.
2. My intention - encourage harmony and peace with each other.
3. In Bible or Quran, it is clearly written
a) this is the only God
b) this God is very jealous
c) he wants lots of praise
d) he wants the whole world to follow him alone.
e) other religion people have been called idolaters, pharisees, pagans, non-believers. Specifically allah has been referred to as a pagan God in bible, hindus have been reffered to as people who pray to stone and cow.
f) Hinduism itself has so many kuritis. Casteism, untouchability. Vedas also have well defined rituals which would mean nothing.

If such things are propagated by these religions, how do you expect peace to happen in this world?

My intention is not to show off my knowledge or the lack of it, my intention is not to propagate my own religion, my intention is not to be a swamy or religious leader.

I am chosing to speak because my conscience doesnt permit me to stay quiet. A Billion of educated people in this world are keeping quiet while another billion who are uneducated and poor are being led to disrespect each other and fight wars by a few mean and shrewd people. We all need to speak out.
Regards
Navin Gulia

[ranvirsingh]

Naveen Bhai, I know you used that phrase as sarcasm.

You are right in what you said but the question is were these books written by Prophet Mohammad or Jesus themselves who are considered the highest souls in these religions. There are many versions and all have something different and so are their preachers.

If you read Hanuman Chalisa you will read something similar that you talk about other religions.

I fully agree that there should be no religion and we should be good human being without any prejudice to learn from the great souls from different parts of the world.

In the end, I appreciate the respect you give others but I am younger than you, so kindly donot use this SIR, it makes me feel old.