~ FaCeS of ReLaTiOnShIpS ~

[shweta123]

People come and go, life moves on ! We eat, laugh, and live but something precious do melts away and we find ourselves less of something, whenever someone special goes far from us, and this is relationship ! Relations can be interpreted by different people in different manner, different perspective. The world is full of some relations which we can name, but more than those are the ones which cant be binded within the pedals of any name ! What will we call a person whom we notice daily sitting idle at the end of our street, the person whom we often see running while we are on our way to office ? And, moreover these are just simple kind of associations which we often don’t name, but feel. Beyond these simple ones are some complex relations into which people fall, many a times unknowingly, and are left wondering whats the way out, is it correct to feel this way, are we doing wrong to someone genuine, are we sharing our pocket of feelings with someone not known to the society as someone legally in relationship with us ! And so rises a relationship which the society may not see with a welcome eye, but the people in the relationship see no evil in that. Cant say who is wrong and who is right, its situational at times, but no doubts such instances are on an all time high ! is this a problem, or anything just socially less acceptable, or an evil just like many others ?

[anilsinghd]

manne tai samajh mein hi na aaya ki key likha tha :O:confused:

[rkumar]

People come and go, life moves on ! We eat, laugh, and live but something precious do melts away and we find ourselves less of something, whenever someone special goes far from us, and this is relationship ! Relations can be interpreted by different people in different manner, different perspective. The world is full of some relations which we can name, but more than those are the ones which cant be binded within the pedals of any name ! What will we call a person whom we notice daily sitting idle at the end of our street, the person whom we often see running while we are on our way to office ? And, moreover these are just simple kind of associations which we often don’t name, but feel. Beyond these simple ones are some complex relations into which people fall, many a times unknowingly, and are left wondering whats the way out, is it correct to feel this way, are we doing wrong to someone genuine, are we sharing our pocket of feelings with someone not known to the society as someone legally in relationship with us ! And so rises a relationship which the society may not see with a welcome eye, but the people in the relationship see no evil in that. Cant say who is wrong and who is right, its situational at times, but no doubts such instances are on an all time high ! is this a problem, or anything just socially less acceptable, or an evil just like many others ?

Relationship is an outcome of any sort of interaction. The interaction can ve visual, verbal, social. Next comes the duration of interaction. All interactions don't lead to relationships. Its like interaction of atoms. Like all atoms act in a well defined manner, we human being also act in a fairly defined manner and then establish relationships. Getting into relationship is not an issue. Major issue is managing a relationship. Lesser is the energy ( or attention) required, longer lasting is the relationship. Relationships which need lots of attention, often lead to fatigue and are doomed to fail. It’s a big topic and loads can be written on this....

RK^2

[shashiverma]

And so rises a relationship which the society may not see with a welcome eye, but the people in the relationship see no evil in that. Cant say who is wrong and who is right, its situational at times, but no doubts such instances are on an all time high ! is this a problem, or anything just socially less acceptable, or an evil just like many others ?

Well as far as society is concerned in this context..then I would say we live in a strange world... For instance, take the simple relation between radha-krishan...Just ask people whether they believe that or not....people in our country not only respect but worship that....forget about the picture of god and rest of things and move ahead to discuss the relation with anyone....and I am sure you will find that not even few percent of people try to understand that relation but still blindly worship...and in case they strongly support that kind of relation...ask them can they approve such kind of relations in their present society....i am sure they will kick you out of the place.
So as far as society is concerned.....I would say forget it. No one here cares for the world...people are smart (hindi word is much better ...shayanai) enough to manipulate things as per their convenience.
I think whats more important is whether you yourself approve that or not. If you are strong enough, you can give answer to yourself and ready to take the responsibilities of your action then go ahead. In the present world its just a personal choice. Its like go ahead for.... what you believe in and just stand strong.

As far as right and wrong is concerned....I do not see anything as wrong or right in it...Its merely a choice based on your understanding. There was a time when people used to simply follow the social norms as they were more fair and there was more of freedom in the choices. But today i feel that they are more deterioted and rigid. So its quite obvious that in the present generation people repel from these illogical relations and look for their own ways.
But unfortunately, i do agree that there are whole lot in our present generation as well who just do not understand realtionships and so keep jumping from one to other.

Very well said by RK....you can write pages...

[anilsinghd]

For instance, take the simple relation between radha-krishan...
.......
ask them can they approve such kind of relations in their present society....i am sure they will kick you out of the place.


You just took my words in this ! This question has haunted me for long , when i have tried asking people (so as to reduce my confusion ), i have been categorised as being out of the world.
:)

My conclusion is : Most dont understand the essence of a relationship.
And my soultion is pretty simple * just seconding Shashi ji on this ), Ask your conscience whether you feel a particular relation as pure and pious, and if the answer is Yes , there is no second opinion.



But today i feel that they are more deterioted and rigid. So its quite obvious that in the present generation people repel from these illogical relations and look for their own ways.
But unfortunately, i do agree that there are whole lot in our present generation as well who just do not understand realtionships and so keep jumping from one to other.



I would personally go for a softer treatment to the present generation ( including me off course ) . I believe this is the that phase in which we are seeing a transition ( some might call it the process of westernization , but i would like to call it liberalization rather ). The inner self is looking for more different sources of seeking solace and in turn churning out new kind of relationship , obviously not approved by the society. But due to the lack of strong will , we are not able to carry through , and hence suffer and make others suffer.

Regarding the Shashi ji comment on the f requent hop by people in relationship , i would be rather protective of the lot on whom that is being commented. IT is a matter of choice after all.:) I am too lil to analyse the vast realms of human realtionships , i just presented waht i feel !
Very well said by RK....you can write pages...


I just quoted to make the matter a lil concrete and to take forward the discussion. Thanks !

[shashiverma]

I just quoted to make the matter a lil concrete and to take forward the discussion. Thanks !

Well I do not know the present discussion is in the frame of the relationship mentioned in the first mail of thread....but anyways...
I totally agree with you Anil. Its probably a phase of transition and I do believe that the need of such changes reflect that there is something surely not right with the present scenario of relationships in our society. Had it been so....people would have never thought of switching to other defintions of relations.
Sometime back I was discussing this with some of my friends and I have found that the most of people who do not want to get into marriage are the one who strongly believe in relationships. (oops if its off...but have to bring it to make the point). But they do not approve the way relationships are being carried in the present society....probabaly there is no meaning in that. In that sense I would say their argument is very much justified. If the relationship do not serve the basic purpose of being in relation than what is the meaning in carrying the tag of relation for the sake of society? Are the social definitions not being created for the happiness of individuals? If so than probably we do need to re-analyse the present form of relationships.

Well by whole lot..... I was referring to the whole lot among those who opt to follow their own ways. The whole idea behind mentioning that was simply the fact that since we agree and support the changes.....we should ensure that we demand changes for the sake of betterment of society. It should not be that since their is something wrong in the present form of relationships we follow something else simply for the sake of change. It should be better than the one we are discarding. If not, than we should look for the ways by which we can improve the existing definitions. I mentioned this because you can see people around who prefer going for different ways for the sake of change (without giving much thought about the way) but ultimately end up frustrated after being into one relation and than other....And finally most of them take turn to accept the easy ways of the society.
So if this is the situation than what is the point in running behind the misleading relations. If you follow them ..than stand by it and let it be proved to the society that you are right. Otherwise do not ask for it. Thats why I said that they jump from one relation to the other.

[neels]

Beyond these simple ones are some complex relations into which people fall, many a times unknowingly, and are left wondering whats the way out, is it correct to feel this way, are we doing wrong to someone genuine, are we sharing our pocket of feelings with someone not known to the society as someone legally in relationship with us ! And so rises a relationship which the society may not see with a welcome eye, but the people in the relationship see no evil in that. Cant say who is wrong and who is right, its situational at times, but no doubts such instances are on an all time high ! is this a problem, or anything just socially less acceptable, or an evil just like many others ?

What's genuine, n what's ingenuine? What's correct to feel n what's wrong...?? Is relationship bound to be legal....??? Who's to decide all these...!!! Individual who is the pivot to a relation or the society ?
Ofcourse these are complex issues. Relationship is between 2 individuals..no society or any leagal system can create/develop any relation if the individuals aren't willing to do so. Relations develop between individuals based on emotions n feelings, where one belongs to another.
Who's to decide Shweta what's wrong or what's right. And where doesnt lie a problem??? problems lie in legalized or societal approved relations also. It's the individuals themselves to decide the right-n wrongs. Societal norms to an extent are okay, but when they start intruding into your personal preferences and decisions, start becoming a burden and encroaching in your happiness, there's no harm in shedding them off n move ahead with your own head upright. If you yourself have any doubts about anything , you should not go for it. The most important is to be content, satisfied, and feel inner most happiness in anything you do.

[anilsinghd]

Sometime back I was discussing this with some of my friends and I have found that the most of people who do not want to get into marriage are the one who strongly believe in relationships. (oops if its off...but have to bring it to make the point). .



That basically sums it up all for me. The day everyone would stop that " Oops ..... " thing to kind of satisfy those people who are avert to " good " change ( Please note the use of the adjective : good ) and concentrate more on the arguments ( in a sense better utilizing one's energy in solving the problem rather than defending the proposed solution ) , we will surely be in a better frame.:)

I second Shashi ji 's thoughts on the topic , Looking forward to hear from the Author , Shweta !

[anilsinghd]

The most important is to be content, satisfied, and feel inner most happiness in anything you do.

I second the idea !
:)

[asuhag]

People come and go, life moves on ! We eat, laugh, and live but something precious do melts away and we find ourselves less of something, whenever someone special goes far from us, and this is relationship ! Relations can be interpreted by different people in different manner, different perspective. The world is full of some relations which we can name, but more than those are the ones which cant be binded within the pedals of any name ! What will we call a person whom we notice daily sitting idle at the end of our street, the person whom we often see running while we are on our way to office ? And, moreover these are just simple kind of associations which we often don’t name, but feel. Beyond these simple ones are some complex relations into which people fall, many a times unknowingly, and are left wondering whats the way out, is it correct to feel this way, are we doing wrong to someone genuine, are we sharing our pocket of feelings with someone not known to the society as someone legally in relationship with us ! And so rises a relationship which the society may not see with a welcome eye, but the people in the relationship see no evil in that. Cant say who is wrong and who is right, its situational at times, but no doubts such instances are on an all time high ! is this a problem, or anything just socially less acceptable, or an evil just like many others ?

What a beautiful topic Shweta! Bravo!
Not making meaning out of relationships as probably addressed by a few others, seeing them more in terms of entity relationships describing a LIFE like (DB) schema the topic reminds me of the movie "CRASH".

How signigicant & not so significant relationship (visualize every entity in your life to have a relationship of some sorts with you) unfold with time & circumstances... Simply beautiful!

I also really liked the "Radha-Krishan" analogy by Shashi. Shashi - its a very thoughtful one and how about we have a seperate thread on it altogether?

[shashiverma]

What a beautiful topic Shweta! Bravo!
I also really liked the "Radha-Krishan" analogy by Shashi. Shashi - its a very thoughtful one and how about we have a seperate thread on it altogether?

I think this thread itself may be good enough to move ahead with this Ashish. I am sure the topic raised by Shweta do have enough space to well place this subject as well. Lets see what others have to say.

[vikasgulia]

This topic is toooo... serious to invoke the contributor in me!!!..yet i could jumble up a few words on this....

Just ask the child in you...Are you happy being in proximity/relation to someone?..If he (child) says "Yes!"..go ahead.embrace the someone and teh world as well...Otherwise ......stick to what societal norms want u to...

Kaisi rahi....:p:p:p
__________________________________________________ _________
---"Sometimes even i act serious...gud to realise that...." :):)

[shweta123]

Well as far as society is concerned in this context..then I would say we live in a strange world... For instance, take the simple relation between radha-krishan...Just ask people whether they believe that or not....people in our country not only respect but worship that....forget about the picture of god and rest of things and move ahead to discuss the relation with anyone....and I am sure you will find that not even few percent of people try to understand that relation but still blindly worship...and in case they strongly support that kind of relation...ask them can they approve such kind of relations in their present society....i am sure they will kick you out of the place.
So as far as society is concerned.....I would say forget it. No one here cares for the world...people are smart (hindi word is much better ...shayanai) enough to manipulate things as per their convenience.
I think whats more important is whether you yourself approve that or not. If you are strong enough, you can give answer to yourself and ready to take the responsibilities of your action then go ahead. In the present world its just a personal choice. Its like go ahead for.... what you believe in and just stand strong.

As far as right and wrong is concerned....I do not see anything as wrong or right in it...Its merely a choice based on your understanding. There was a time when people used to simply follow the social norms as they were more fair and there was more of freedom in the choices. But today i feel that they are more deterioted and rigid. So its quite obvious that in the present generation people repel from these illogical relations and look for their own ways.
But unfortunately, i do agree that there are whole lot in our present generation as well who just do not understand realtionships and so keep jumping from one to other.

Very well said by RK....you can write pages...

That’s the biggest irony Di ! I have observed that people at large, look at the things in the manner they are made to look at, and not in the way they genuinely feel from deep within, just because of the sheer fear of committing a momentous misdeed of not being in conformity with the prescribed societal norms ! Lifestyles have radically changed and so have changed the needs of people and their expectation from the relationships that they live in, but society which gets mum when even a girl is raped by a high profile person, all of a sudden comes to action to beat to death a poor woman on finding her eloping with her lover to escape from the daily atrocities of her husband. The society wants you to be all clean, all good, no frown, no fuss, just modesty must speak up in all your deeds, but no set norm applies to it ! The people who comprise the root of this ‘society’ are humans too and are free to do their will, but when they come into picture wearing the mask of protectors of society, they find it anything different from their viewpoint as anti social. But people, owing to their inner aspirations or desires, indulge into so called anti-social acts, because they know very well that they will be culprits if caught ! Everyone does what he likes, but society still wants to keep its big mouth big, and this behind the back show goes on!

[shweta123]

What's genuine, n what's ingenuine? What's correct to feel n what's wrong...?? Is relationship bound to be legal....??? Who's to decide all these...!!! Individual who is the pivot to a relation or the society ?
Ofcourse these are complex issues. Relationship is between 2 individuals..no society or any leagal system can create/develop any relation if the individuals aren't willing to do so. Relations develop between individuals based on emotions n feelings, where one belongs to another.
Who's to decide Shweta what's wrong or what's right. And where doesnt lie a problem??? problems lie in legalized or societal approved relations also. It's the individuals themselves to decide the right-n wrongs. Societal norms to an extent are okay, but when they start intruding into your personal preferences and decisions, start becoming a burden and encroaching in your happiness, there's no harm in shedding them off n move ahead with your own head upright. If you yourself have any doubts about anything , you should not go for it. The most important is to be content, satisfied, and feel inner most happiness in anything you do.

I completely agree Neelam ji, with the basic fact that relations can't be formed just by societal pressure, and have their own lane down which many a emotions travel, many a things shape up and eventually comes to existence a tiny plant of relationship, looking forward to grow into a vast tree over the period of time. But, often the society doesnt gives time for such a plant to even come up, and if it comes without consent, its crumpled. I also agree that the society is not at fault always, there are many a people who are ever ready to use the double edged sword of emotions to fulfill their desires which are against societal norms, covering them up with the fake color of emotions ! Nothing works out without proper administration and so is the case with any society. Society made some norms to enable peaceful co-existence of people and mutual gains, but over the time it failed to change its outlook, keeping pace with the changing times! No one party is at fault for the eruptions of problems like relationship failures, an all time high of extra marital affairs, so called casual freindships and the likes. Whats the way out to deal with the ugly aspects of such situations positively ?

[shashiverma]

That’s the biggest irony Di ! I have observed that people at large, look at the things in the manner they are made to look at, and not in the way they genuinely feel from deep within, just because of the sheer fear of committing a momentous misdeed of not being in conformity with the prescribed societal norms ! Lifestyles have radically changed and so have changed the needs of people and their expectation from the relationships that they live in, but society which gets mum when even a girl is raped by a high profile person, all of a sudden comes to action to beat to death a poor woman on finding her eloping with her lover to escape from the daily atrocities of her husband. The society wants you to be all clean, all good, no frown, no fuss, just modesty must speak up in all your deeds, but no set norm applies to it ! The people who comprise the root of this ‘society’ are humans too and are free to do their will, but when they come into picture wearing the mask of protectors of society, they find it anything different from their viewpoint as anti social. But people, owing to their inner aspirations or desires, indulge into so called anti-social acts, because they know very well that they will be culprits if caught ! Everyone does what he likes, but society still wants to keep its big mouth big, and this behind the back show goes on!

It is true shweta and i completely agree with you.
But I feel the problem is that none of us dare to stand...as you have rightly pointed....
The society we are talking about is nothing more than people like us....Did you stood in support of the lady you are mentioning?..No...neither do I.....behaved nothing more than spectators. But its atleast good that you bothered to think about it today...probably tomorrow we may even dare to speak and fight for what we believe in....Changes never took place in a day....and this will not happen even today...Its a gradual process and will move at its own pace provided we stay committed to our ownself and do not settle for any kind of compromises with our soul for the sake of temporary comforts....Its like if we can clean our houses and surroundings.....society will be automatically taken care.
If you want to enjoy and live with your kind of relationships...then its only you who have to put efforts to stand against everything...watsoever.....nd who said happiness do not have a price tag...No free lunches...so is in life and relations....Buy happiness for your soul..or let it suffocate.

[gaganjat]

thaam ta saare ke saare ghane bhunde senti ho rhe so...lol

Shweta ! ke baat sai chori..sari post emotional sentimental likkhe sai..tregedy queen ho rhe sai

[addy]

Thats what I feel n the reason is simple."one person cant b there for one n all who desire him/her to be theirs"..so where lies the solution??
Sometimes its hard to negotiate those cheeky turns when you know passing through those will take you to the summit and a small slip and you end up deep down in a gorge..and the dilemma is even bigger when its nt just abt our own life alone..???..Neway the points n counter points are endless...Go on..

[shashiverma]

thaam ta saare ke saare ghane bhunde senti ho rhe so...lol

Senti......yaha kaun senti ho leya GD....
hum sab to saare yaha ghanne khush ho leya....tabhee to serious topic dhondhee hai Shweta...

[neels]

Whats the way out to deal with the ugly aspects of such situations positively ?

By not letting them to become ugly. Now yu will say how this ? somewhere yu ve mentioned of extra marital affairs as ppl arent satisfied or happy wid their marriage... I wud say then one shud have that much courage to come out of such a relation and shud keep the one he/she likes....then be it formal or informal, leagally n socially approved or not. Infidelity is wrong... one shud nt do anything about which one can not even assure oneself.

[shweta123]

By not letting them to become ugly. Now yu will say how this ? somewhere yu ve mentioned of extra marital affairs as ppl arent satisfied or happy wid their marriage... I wud say then one shud have that much courage to come out of such a relation and shud keep the one he/she likes....then be it formal or informal, leagally n socially approved or not. Infidelity is wrong... one shud nt do anything about which one can not even assure oneself.

.Problem lies not just in trying to make a stiff decision and arrive at a choice, problem arises when the other person involved takes the relation in a completely different way and is not willing to part away! Imagine a situation where a person with two kids desires a separation and his wife is completely dependant on him and more than that, loves him dearly and is ready for any sort of improvements at her end. And such situations are not just imaginary or just limited to plots of some useless TV serials, it has entered common households! Reasons several, but result one : Immense pain and a lifelong strive to bear the burn of a failed relationship and much more ! And the reason I see behind, besides others, is that people are losing on some very crucial attributes which can take a relation forward amongst sun & shade consistently.

[shweta123]

Thats what I feel n the reason is simple."one person cant b there for one n all who desire him/her to be theirs"..so where lies the solution??
Sometimes its hard to negotiate those cheeky turns when you know passing through those will take you to the summit and a small slip and you end up deep down in a gorge..and the dilemma is even bigger when its nt just abt our own life alone..???..Neway the points n counter points are endless...Go on..

Rightly said, such situations not just affect a single person's life but of many others. Its really very tough to negotiate because in such situations, the helping hands decreases in numbers while the twisting eyebrows rises giving rise to a very predicament situation and lives of many become a gamble !

[neels]

And the reason I see behind, besides others, is that people are losing on some very crucial attributes which can take a relation forward amongst sun & shade consistently.
Agree that people are lacking in the committment.
Getting into different relations at one given time ---few observed facts are,,,, different kinds of needs...some are met,, some not met with one relation... so ppl look out at the sources to gratify them.
Reasons for walking out - indulgence into high comfort zone, ease, no compromise attitude, and no accountability. Only I stands, I , my happiness, my wish, my wants, my needs, n my desires.
If it's easy to change one partner for another, where's the incentive to develop staying power in a relationship?
Whereas Marriage is a highly responsible relationship that not only demands personal commitment of both the spouses, but, is bound by social and legal provisions that tend to enforce responsibility and accountability. It demands high levels of sincerity, cooperation and compromise as the costs involved are very high.
I am a firm believer of the institution of marriage or be it any other relationship and will never favor the option of walking out as long as the problems are due to some differences or issues and the things can be worked out.
But then, will never advocate to carry on while one isn't willing and the other is suffering all the humiliation just to keep the outer shell of this so called relation which is all hollow from within,,,,,and there the problem lies in taking a bold decision only.

Problem lies not just in trying to make a stiff decision and arrive at a choice, problem arises when the other person involved takes the relation in a completely different way and is not willing to part away! Imagine a situation where a person with two kids desires a separation and his wife is completely dependant on him and more than that, loves him dearly and is ready for any sort of improvements at her end. And such situations are not just imaginary or just limited to plots of some useless TV serials, it has entered common households! Reasons several, but result one : Immense pain and a lifelong strive to bear the burn of a failed relationship and much more !

So much to say on this.... but maybe my views may sound revolutionary or too strong to digest....so wud restrict only to say..... why women are so "helpless, dependent, parasitic being" till date.
We talk of Women Empowerment a lot these days. Empoweremnt doesnt mean that you are working and earning. It means to stand for the Self. I feel shocked that Why the women of today still dont want to come out of the image of- "Abla jeewan hae tumhari yahi kahani....."

Whtever, I m going with what I had to say, and this can be for either of the sexes-

In the given situation also I will say,,,, have a control on your emotions...don let any one rule over you. Loving, sacrifising, compromising is fair as long as yu are also getting something. but when the other person doesnt care for you, you also stop caring and worrying about it. the more you become vulnerable, the more you will be exploited. It is much much better to live alone with dignity rather than an ever insulting n humiliating relationship. So instead of being Exhausted and exasperated maintaining the noise of wedding bells ringing and digging the brain; be strong to learn to live without the alms of the person you love. This is what I meant in my thread Poverty of Soul,, don let your soul be a beggar of love. Love cant be demanded or begged. It ll be only mercy then. The more you show your weakness for love n realtion, the more the other person will control you and exploit. Ofcourse pain ll be there,,,,n no less infact.... but lesser than the pain, humiliation and the rejection of daily basis.

[rkumar]

Agree that people are lacking in the committment.
Getting into different relations at one given time ---few observed facts are,,,, different kinds of needs...some are met,, some not met with one relation... so ppl look out at the sources to gratify them.
Reasons for walking out - indulgence into high comfort zone, ease, no compromise attitude, and no accountability. Only I stands, I , my happiness, my wish, my wants, my needs, n my desires.
If it's easy to change one partner for another, where's the incentive to develop staying power in a relationship?
Whereas Marriage is a highly responsible relationship that not only demands personal commitment of both the spouses, but, is bound by social and legal provisions that tend to enforce responsibility and accountability. It demands high levels of sincerity, cooperation and compromise as the costs involved are very high.
I am a firm believer of the institution of marriage or be it any other relationship and will never favor the option of walking out as long as the problems are due to some differences or issues and the things can be worked out.
But then will never advocate to carry on while one isn't willing and the other is suffering all the humiliation just to keep the outer shell of this so called relation which is all hollow from within,,,,,and there the problem lies in taking a bold decision only.


So much to say on this.... but maybe my views may sound revolutionary or too strong to digest....so wud restrict only to say..... why women are so "helpless, dependent, parasitic being" till date.
We talk of Women Empowerment a lot these days. Empoweremnt doesnt mean that you are working and earning. It means to stand for the Self. I feel shocked that Why the women of today still dont want to come out of the image of- "Abla jeewan hae tumhari yahi kahani....."

Whtever I m going with what I had to say, and this can be for either of the sexes-

In the given situation also I will say,,,, have a control on your emotions...don let any one rule over you. Loving, sacrifising, compromising is fair as long as yu are also getting something. but when the other person doesnt care for you, you also stop caring and worrying about it. the more you become vulnerable, the more you will be exploited. It is much much better to live alone with dignity rather than an ever insulting n humiliating relationship. So instaed of being Exhausted and exasperated maintaining the noise of wedding bells ringing and digging the brain; be strong to learn to live without the alms of the person you love. This is what I meant in my thread Poverty of Soul,, don let your soul be a beggar of love. Love cant be demanded or begged. It ll be only mercy then. The more you show your weakness for love n realtion, the more the other person will control you and exploit. Ofcourse pain ll be there,,,,n no less infact.... but lesser than the pain, humiliation and the rejection of daily basis.

I don't think Nari is Abla at all. Who says in all extra-marital relationships its only the man to be blamed. All such relations have a man and a woman as party. Who says that only men cheat? Women are equal cheaters. It can begin from either side. Its a very complex issue. To me a relationship is like a Shama and Parwana relationship. Its worth sacrificing one's life for someone we love. I don't beleive in any further analysis.

RK^2

[kabir]

I don't think Nari is Abla at all. Who says in all extra-marital relationships its only the man to be blamed. All such relations have a man and a woman as party. Who says that only men cheat? Women are equal cheaters. It can begin from either side. Its a very complex issue. To me a relationship is like a Shama and Parwana relationship. Its worth sacrificing one's life for someone we love. I don't beleive in any further analysis.

RK^2

Quite right

[shweta123]

Quite right

Its not a man-woman attitude we are evaluating pertinent to the subject being discussed, rather we are just debating upon the urge that rises so often nowadays to exit one relation and enter some other to seek newer shelter.

[devdahiya]

People come and go, life moves on ! We eat, laugh, and live but something precious do melts away and we find ourselves less of something, whenever someone special goes far from us, and this is relationship ! Relations can be interpreted by different people in different manner, different perspective. The world is full of some relations which we can name, but more than those are the ones which cant be binded within the pedals of any name ! What will we call a person whom we notice daily sitting idle at the end of our street, the person whom we often see running while we are on our way to office ? And, moreover these are just simple kind of associations which we often don’t name, but feel. Beyond these simple ones are some complex relations into which people fall, many a times unknowingly, and are left wondering whats the way out, is it correct to feel this way, are we doing wrong to someone genuine, are we sharing our pocket of feelings with someone not known to the society as someone legally in relationship with us ! And so rises a relationship which the society may not see with a welcome eye, but the people in the relationship see no evil in that. Cant say who is wrong and who is right, its situational at times, but no doubts such instances are on an all time high ! is this a problem, or anything just socially less acceptable, or an evil just like many others ?



Relationship is outcome of our attitudes.Those who seek people to meet their ends meet will have a different kind of shallow relationship where as those who are kind and serious about mutual benefitting and learning will certainly have longer lasting[may be eternal]relationship.We all get connected to the environment through the observation,eye contact,touch,feel,spoken words and in so many other ways.In fact we have ekind of relationship with every surrounding we pass bye even if it is momentry that is basically because of our faculties being active all the time.In a way we feel connected to a begger on the street whom we see every day irrespective of whether we spoke to him or donated him something or not..that is because we have feelings and kind of feelings we carry in side us will dictate the level of relationship and kind of relationship...including the length of any relationship.It is a vast topic and sou much can be wirtten on this topic.

[rkumar]

Its not a man-woman attitude we are evaluating pertinent to the subject being discussed, rather we are just debating upon the urge that rises so often nowadays to exit one relation and enter some other to seek newer shelter.

Unless until we understand the science of relationship, there is no way we can understand this urge of exiting or remaining into any relationship. All one needs is the basic knowledge of chemistry to understand any type of relationship. I can certainly write on the scientific aspects, but it will be boring to most of members here. May be we organise a half day seminar on this topic like we organise trade meetings and scientific meetings.

RK^2

[Samarkadian]

In any relationship, the person with the most power is the one who needs the other the least.

This is a foundation of any relationship, not just intersexual ones, but family, business, etc. relationships as well. It is a dynamic that is always in effect.This principle isn't so much about 'power' as it is about control.
Later.

[neels]

I don't think Nari is Abla at all. Who says in all extra-marital relationships its only the man to be blamed. All such relations have a man and a woman as party. Who says that only men cheat? Women are equal cheaters. It can begin from either side. Its a very complex issue. To me a relationship is like a Shama and Parwana relationship. Its worth sacrificing one's life for someone we love. I don't beleive in any further analysis.

RK^2

RK Sir, You totally missed my point. What I said about women was particularly to one example mentioned by Shweta.... Read the next line before the last paragraph...


Whtever, I m going with what I had to say, and this can be for either of the sexes...

I ve seen males also feeling terribly vulnerable when their partners leave them for any reason. Ofcourse it can be from any side. And surely its a very complex issue, and those who had had a problem free life can never understand the issues like controlling... power... dependence...helplessness. Scientifically its a give n take relationship... if there 's a balance in it , all fine...or it wont be a pleasant relationship at all.

[neels]

In any relationship, the person with the most power is the one who needs the other the least.

This is a foundation of any relationship, not just intersexual ones, but family, business, etc. relationships as well. It is a dynamic that is always in effect.This principle isn't so much about 'power' as it is about control.
Later.


Absolutely Right Samar.

[devdahiya]

In any relationship, the person with the most power is the one who needs the other the least.

This is a foundation of any relationship, not just intersexual ones, but family, business, etc. relationships as well. It is a dynamic that is always in effect.This principle isn't so much about 'power' as it is about control.
Later.



True...letter by letter Samar.

[devdahiya]

For any relationship to thrive one ought to take charge.When we talk of mutuality it does not work.One out of the Two has to be wiser not to get carried away.Maturity and passion are the two keys for any heart out relationship.We tend to ruin ourselves by sticking to useless egos which are nothing but momentary madnesses.If i am convinced that i must love and seek a person then i must do that with complete passion at my disposal.Half hearted and doubtful feelings always lands a person in dungeons.It is not a child play.It stems from a desire to love and get loved...or feel for some one deep inside.It does not come by fluke or trial and error.Serious yes very serious concerns are called for to love the surroundings.

[jagmohan]

Dear All,

An interesting, important and apt subject, fit for freewheeling comments.

Relationships? A very complex issue like members have commented. No one can give conclusive answers or remedies for questions that arise out of ‘relationships’. There seems to be no thumb rule either. Scientific answers are found and fed to public as per the economic viability of their acceptance or otherwise.

Because there are no set answers to situations arising out of relationships, it would be wrong to say that what is applicable to a given situation is a set template answer for all individuals. “Sawari aapne saaman ki khud jimmewar hai” is the greatest learning that I have assimilated from the famous Haryana Roadways bus. This sentence is written in almost every one of them. This means that each and everyone of us is fully responsible for the consequences, good, bad or indifferent, that are a fallout of getting into any and every relationship. Some relationships we inherit because of our birth. No issues there. Say if I am a single child of my parents then I can do nothing about it. My experiences in life may be different than others who are not in my position. Therefore, every individual will have to bear his own cross.

Another point that I want to make is that somehow I have come to believe in a very important phenomenon, and that is that each and every individual will experience all emotions that this world has to offer in his life time. The frequency, intensity, result thereof etc will vary for each individual but everyone will go through those emotions. There are too many emotions to list here and I am sure you all must have experienced most of them, and if not then my best wishes are always with you.

The last point is also too obvious to be missed, but people find it difficult to accept. A human being is the worst thing that happened to mother earth. We can have a separate discussion on this point though. Human being is the most scheming animal there ever was or will be. We have the ability to never let others know what our true ‘Charitra’ is. We possess the best possible traits and the worst possible ones too. In public we come across as personification of all that is good but in real lives the realities may be quite the opposite. Therefore, let us do some internal path finding and I am sure all the answers are crystal clear.

Warm regards,

JS Malik

[devdahiya]

Dear All,

An interesting, important and apt subject, fit for freewheeling comments.

Relationships? A very complex issue like members have commented. No one can give conclusive answers or remedies for questions that arise out of ‘relationships’. There seems to be no thumb rule either. Scientific answers are found and fed to public as per the economic viability of their acceptance or otherwise.

Because there are no set answers to situations arising out of relationships, it would be wrong to say that what is applicable to a given situation is a set template answer for all individuals. “Sawari aapne saaman ki khud jimmewar hai” is the greatest learning that I have assimilated from the famous Haryana Roadways bus. This sentence is written in almost every one of them. This means that each and everyone of us is fully responsible for the consequences, good, bad or indifferent, that are a fallout of getting into any and every relationship. Some relationships we inherit because of our birth. No issues there. Say if I am a single child of my parents then I can do nothing about it. My experiences in life may be different than others who are not in my position. Therefore, every individual will have to bear his own cross.

Another point that I want to make is that somehow I have come to believe in a very important phenomenon, and that is that each and every individual will experience all emotions that this world has to offer in his life time. The frequency, intensity, result thereof etc will vary for each individual but everyone will go through those emotions. There are too many emotions to list here and I am sure you all must have experienced most of them, and if not then my best wishes are always with you.

The last point is also too obvious to be missed, but people find it difficult to accept. A human being is the worst thing that happened to mother earth. We can have a separate discussion on this point though. Human being is the most scheming animal there ever was or will be. We have the ability to never let others know what our true ‘Charitra’ is. We possess the best possible traits and the worst possible ones too. In public we come across as personification of all that is good but in real lives the realities may be quite the opposite. Therefore, let us do some internal path finding and I am sure all the answers are crystal clear.

Warm regards,

JS Malik



Yup...agree with you ...if we can just be natural self all emotions will flow from inside in right degree and at right time and life will be bliss irrespective of the hardships we all endure.Doing it is believing.

[shweta123]

Read so many diverse kinds of views, and got some new perspectives to look at the matter. Now, let me jot down some budding trends in relationships which look creepy as the basic factor which must form the basis of any relationship, comfort level and mutual understanding, has been put crossways with a big question mark nowadays.......................................... ...............Situation 1 : Relations which we get by virtue of birth and we cant seek separation from them : A son leaves his house for higher education, gets a new environment, gets addicted to intake of excessive liquor, falls prey to many vices and becomes a womanizer. He cant even study without having cigarettes every few minutes, but manages to complete his course any how as his young body could bear the burden of his vices at this point of time. Parents forcefully get him married with a hope that he will improve with his ways of life. Son knows he is not correct, but finds him unable to change, have tried many a times but now he is assured somewhere in his heart that now he an all together different person, he doesn’t feels happy when he is with family as he used to feel earlier, and many other things……….. He finds himself full of double guilt, first that he is not doing well to himself, second that he is doing good to no one but cant change himself now, he has accepted that it’s too late now! Now, he cant stand his parents complaining every now and then and just cant live with them anymore. Fed up of his wife telling him not to do this, think about future and all this seems utter bullshit to him. He is not even happy with himself, work pressure of office, peer pressure; just everything around him is dark. If one has to live, he has to inevitably have some things to drive pleasures from. He now seeks pleasure from outside his family, and leaves all morality lessons on hold. He wants to be free, and there being no problem in reality, but owing to some ego problems, over reactions from family at times, burgeoning mental anxiety, he makes his life fall the way it will take him…. May be he is making good money at work, may be society sees him as a good and happily living person, but the world within him is dark and gloomy, his family neglected and dejected……. Everyone around but all alone ! Members of family smile, go out, look normal, but their heart filled with oceans of all sort of gloomy feelings – And such situations are increasing in reality, more so in metros.

[jagmohan]

Read so many diverse kinds of views, and got some new perspectives to look at the matter. Now, let me jot down some budding trends in relationships which look creepy as the basic factor which must form the basis of any relationship, comfort level and mutual understanding, has been put crossways with a big question mark nowadays.......................................... ...............Situation 1

A real sad situation I must say, invited upon himself by the collective efforts of his parents, wife, society and his own doings. I can also understand that this is not a hypothetical case but a real one. There are plenty of examples in neighborhood akin to this.

If two people agree to each other at all times then surely one of them is abnormal, if not both. This is universally applicable. In this case the fault can’t be assigned to one individual or one event. Even considering this example to be true, there must have been a series of wrong decisions taken because somehow an atmosphere of ‘materialism’ existed in the family. And this boy must have seen his parents only talk money, position in society, dowry, so and so has become this, so and so has so much property etc. Therefore the environment was what it was and wrongly perceived by the boy to be the right one. That’s it and everything else is a derivative of bad parenting to start with.

If the son was a balanced person he should not have been carried away by the environment he found himself to be in when he went to study abroad. Not everyone who goes abroad finds himself in such a situation.

Now if he can’t accept parents nagging him, he should take his wife (if the wife wants to be with him in the first place) and live independently. When one lives away then one realizes the importance of parents and relations.

Actually, solutions to such problems can’t be found by such discussions. But the problem mentioned is not new anymore. More and more people are getting frustrated each day and wonder “was this the life I opted for”. Many have choices to make but are scared to take that first step because of family and societal pressure. The end result is breaking relationships, drunkenness, neglect and what not.

If Situation 1 is real and affects a JAT Family, I recommend express psychiatric help for all members of the family. Few for being mad themselves while others for allowing themselves to be in such a position.

Warm regards,

JS Malik

[neels]

Read so many diverse kinds of views, and got some new perspectives to look at the matter. Now, let me jot down some budding trends in relationships which look creepy as the basic factor which must form the basis of any relationship, comfort level and mutual understanding, has been put crossways with a big question mark nowadays.......................................... ...............Situation 1 : Relations which we get by virtue of birth and we cant seek separation from them : And such situations are increasing in reality, more so in metros.

It seems a very complex problem, with so many issues n factors involved in it. And as is suggested by Col. Malik, to save the life of the person,, or to get it back on the right track,,,,Professional help is must required.

[neels]

Son knows he is not correct, but finds him unable to change, have tried many a times but now he is assured somewhere in his heart that now he an all together different person, he doesn’t feels happy when he is with family as he used to feel earlier, and many other things……….. He finds himself full of double guilt, first that he is not doing well to himself, second that he is doing good to no one but cant change himself now, he has accepted that it’s too late now! Now, he cant stand his parents complaining every now and then and just cant live with them anymore. Fed up of his wife telling him not to do this, think about future and all this seems utter bullshit to him. He is not even happy with himself, work pressure of office, peer pressure; just everything around him is dark. If one has to live, he has to inevitably have some things to drive pleasures from. He now seeks pleasure from outside his family, and leaves all morality lessons on hold. He wants to be free, and there being no problem in reality, but owing to some ego problems, over reactions from family at times, burgeoning mental anxiety, he makes his life fall the way it will take him…. May be he is making good money at work, may be society sees him as a good and happily living person, but the world within him is dark and gloomy, his family neglected and dejected……. Everyone around but all alone ! Members of family smile, go out, look normal, but their heart filled with oceans of all sort of gloomy feelings – And such situations are increasing in reality, more so in metros.

I don't see the family as a culprit anywhere in this situation... Its the mental health of the person,,, which is affected by his physical addictions in first place,,, and that is the reason for all his miseries. Unable to face the criticism at home,,, not being able to mend his ways,,, this person is just getting a recluse in outer world,,where no one is to blame him....n running away from realities,,finding solace away from real life problems,,are symptoms of very ill mental health. Its not that he doesn't want to change... rather its not in his capacity now to change,,, he seriously needs professional counselling.

[shweta123]

I don't see the family as a culprit anywhere in this situation... Its the mental health of the person,,, which is affected by his physical addictions in first place,,, and that is the reason for all his miseries. Unable to face the criticism at home,,, not being able to mend his ways,,, this person is just getting a recluse in outer world,,where no one is to blame him....n running away from realities,,finding solace away from real life problems,,are symptoms of very ill mental health. Its not that he doesn't want to change... rather its not in his capacity now to change,,, he seriously needs professional counselling.

I agree that a helping hand can be of immense help, but at times people just end up fixing blames on someone else's attitudes and even fail to diagnose that they need some help !

[neels]

I agree that a helping hand can be of immense help, but at times people just end up fixing blames on someone else's attitudes and even fail to diagnose that they need some help !

Not only sometimes,,,, it's the case most of the times... hardly ever the affected person is able to realize that he/she is suffereing from some problem and needs help. The biggest reason behind this is the mentality of our society... who just think going to a psychiarist for a psychological problem = Paagal/Mental/Psycho... as they usually call it. And with such a mentality around, no one is ready to recognize and accept the psychological problem, even in cases when one is understanding that something is wrong with him.

While as there are physical health problems, so are mental health problems. For physical illness, no one minds to go to a physician...but for psychological problems, no one likes to go. Treatment in both kind of problems is must.

[plsehrawat]

but i feel that jats are equally ignorant of both. rather, more to say, more, ignorant of first, i.e. physical one. gamma mme jab ladd ke chalen se, bimar ne jub kati us ka jee likadne wala howe se. aur shahr tayeen aate aate aa dum tod dewe sse.:)

[cooljat]

OFFTOPIC!! :confused:


but i feel that jats are equally ignorant of both. rather, more to say, more, ignorant of first, i.e. physical one. gamma mme jab ladd ke chalen se, bimar ne jub kati us ka jee likadne wala howe se. aur shahr tayeen aate aate aa dum tod dewe sse.:)

[Maniisha]

In any relationship, the person with the most power is the one who needs the other the least.

This is a foundation of any relationship, not just intersexual ones, but family, business, etc. relationships as well. It is a dynamic that is always in effect.This principle isn't so much about 'power' as it is about control.
Later.

Yep Sam very True .. Straight to the point ..:)
As per my view mutual understanding and admiration are two important building blocks of any relationship. The relationship can only survive when one partner takes lead over the other in case one gets carried away by situations. Every relationship passes through periods of rough patch when conflicts of ideas arises.As the time passes due to unnecessary ego's and misunderstandings add fuel to fire. So its important to maintain the sanctity of such relationships by being true to each other.
Transparency, Truthfulness , Trust are three T's that goes towards strengthening a relationship....:):)

[anilsinghd]

Yep Sam very True .. Straight to the point ..:)
As per my view mutual understanding and admiration are two important building blocks of any relationship. The relationship can only survive when one partner takes lead over the other in case one gets carried away by situations. Every relationship passes through periods of rough patch when conflicts of ideas arises.As the time passes due to unnecessary ego's and misunderstandings add fuel to fire. So its important to maintain the sanctity of such relationships by being true to each other.
Transparency, Truthfulness , Trust are three T's that goes towards strengthening a relationship....:):)


dhanya ho gaya mod sahiba aapse gyaan paakar !!! :D

[mamtadg]

A bit complex one.
only one thing to say on relationship and life .
Everything in life comes with an expire date:)

[deepakchoudhry]

We fall in love with people's personalities and get disillusioned after a while.
And sometimes never expand our love to others...along those lines I have written this poem.

shakisyat hoti hai kamzor,shakisyat say na pyar karo

yeh prem ki ganga bhitar hai behti, Iska tum kabhi toh dhayan karo
shakisyat hoti hai kamzor,shakisyat say na pyar karo

Mann ki sunatay ho, jo hai swaarthi, chao toh ban sakte ho paramarthi
mann ki is vayatha ka, nirthark malay gaan na karo,
shakisyat hoti hai kamzor, shakisyat say na pyar karo

Beh janay doh yeh ganga, Bhuja doh jag ki aag
Nafrat ka Junoon failakar funn, baitha hai aaj
Apnay is prem ka, kuch toh vistaar karo
shakisyat hoti hai kamzor, shakisyat say na pyar karo

Dhalta hua suraj, Balak ki muskaan
Kya Indradhunush nay, mangaa hai kabhi hisab
Din raat tum apany prem ka, nirbhay ho kar daan karo
shakisyat hoti hai kamzor, shakisyat say na pyar karo

[shweta123]

We fall in love with people's personalities and get disillusioned after a while.
And sometimes never expand our love to others...along those lines I have written this poem.

shakisyat hoti hai kamzor,shakisyat say na pyar karo

yeh prem ki ganga bhitar hai behti, Iska tum kabhi toh dhayan karo
shakisyat hoti hai kamzor,shakisyat say na pyar karo

Mann ki sunatay ho, jo hai swaarthi, chao toh ban sakte ho paramarthi
mann ki is vayatha ka, nirthark malay gaan na karo,
shakisyat hoti hai kamzor, shakisyat say na pyar karo

Beh janay doh yeh ganga, Bhuja doh jag ki aag
Nafrat ka Junoon failakar funn, baitha hai aaj
Apnay is prem ka, kuch toh vistaar karo
shakisyat hoti hai kamzor, shakisyat say na pyar karo

Dhalta hua suraj, Balak ki muskaan
Kya Indradhunush nay, mangaa hai kabhi hisab
Din raat tum apany prem ka, nirbhay ho kar daan karo
shakisyat hoti hai kamzor, shakisyat say na pyar karo


Very nice :)

[deepakchoudhry]

Upanishads say that we don't actually love the other but we love ourselves through others, be it our spouse, kids or anyone.

In other words we project our image on others and fall in love with that image.

Two empty, disillusioned and needy individuals form a relationship hoping for love from each other.

How can one beggar help another beggar, it is simply not possible.

[shweta123]

Upanishads say that we don't actually love the other but we love ourselves through others, be it our spouse, kids or anyone.

In other words we project our image on others and fall in love with that image.

Two empty, disillusioned and needy individuals form a relationship hoping for love from each other.

How can one beggar help another beggar, it is simply not possible.

A newer approach but a true one I think ! We want to get loved and somewhere deep within we want to love someone to get ourselves loved in his way of loving !!

[vijay]

Everything in life comes with an expire date:)

What about Predated expiry ? :)

[vijay]

In any relationship, the person with the most power is the one who needs the other the least.

Agree..... Powerful person take everything for granted becoz he/she knows that sooner or later others wud come back.

But POWER changes sides with time and so does the relationship :) ... complex ....... isn't it ?



This is a foundation of any relationship, not just intersexual ones, but family, business, etc. relationships as well. It is a dynamic that is always in effect.This principle isn't so much about 'power' as it is about control.
Later.

Every PARTY in a relationship want to control it by his/her own way rather than following the basic rule of understanding and adjustments ..... and that's the real problem.

Realtionship always flourish where the control word is replaced with co-operation. :)

[anilsinghd]

Read all ( most to be precise ) the posts.

to be true to all of you and myself , i dont have an opinion on this ! Infact , my belief is that the myriads of human feelings and emotions is too complex to have an opinion. Scenario based analysis is more apt i beleive.

Samar mentioned that is is the power , the Strongest needs the weak the least. Somewhere it was said that the ego is the root of problems.
Now if ego is a variable to be used in analysis , then we must conclude that strong would never leave the weak ( because this event will inherently tell him that he failed in his / her relationship ; PS : I am not analysing weaker souls who dont have enough self esteem to feel such things ) .

Dont know about you , but i am confused.


Considering the scenario put forward by Shweta and some of the propsed solutions , do we seriously believe that a " Professional " help would actually help ? In the course of the treatment , it can further increase the problem because : the person himslef , the wife , the family : all are now made to believe that there is a problem and everyone is skeptical and chaos will follow. ( more often than not , simple solutions will be stripped off their effectiveness and the complex methods of a psycho treatment will only damage ). The important thing is this one must consider the patience level of the involved before before even thinking on these lines.

Another humanitarian consideration is of the people involved who are not a party to the cause at all. Think of the poor wife who has done nothing wrong and have had always dreamt of a loving and caring husband. The sacred institutions of marriage have forced upon her to live in misery and remind herself daily that she is living in misery. The bonds are too hard for her to break and instead of supporting her to free herself , the society pushes back with all the force they do.
Result : A disinterested life !!

I am forced to not believe in the sanctity of all the insitutions we have put into practice. And it does not end here.

There will be a time when the husband will bounce back ( the law of averages will prevail ) but he will not have time on his hand. The wife would have either comitted suicide by this time , would have ventured into unwillingly relations Or would have been too disinterested even to continue living or even thinking of a possibility of living again happily.
More than that , her ego will not allow her to be happy with the husband again. And there goes the final opportunity !!!


I will not end without proposing what i feel best.

Most of you would have seen the movie : Life in a metro ! for those who have not seen and are contributing to the topic , i would suggest its a must watch.

I like the movie, i was moved by the movie infact. But i hated the end which Shilpa got , and infact if someone happened to watch it closely , the touch of her husband was even not confortable to her ( even after the compromise ). I dont find that life worth living.:)

[shweta123]

Read all ( most to be precise ) the posts.

to be true to all of you and myself , i dont have an opinion on this ! Infact , my belief is that the myriads of human feelings and emotions is too complex to have an opinion. Scenario based analysis is more apt i beleive.

Samar mentioned that is is the power , the Strongest needs the weak the least. Somewhere it was said that the ego is the root of problems.
Now if ego is a variable to be used in analysis , then we must conclude that strong would never leave the weak ( because this event will inherently tell him that he failed in his / her relationship ; PS : I am not analysing weaker souls who dont have enough self esteem to feel such things ) .

Dont know about you , but i am confused.


Considering the scenario put forward by Shweta and some of the propsed solutions , do we seriously believe that a " Professional " help would actually help ? In the course of the treatment , it can further increase the problem because : the person himslef , the wife , the family : all are now made to believe that there is a problem and everyone is skeptical and chaos will follow. ( more often than not , simple solutions will be stripped off their effectiveness and the complex methods of a psycho treatment will only damage ). The important thing is this one must consider the patience level of the involved before before even thinking on these lines.

Another humanitarian consideration is of the people involved who are not a party to the cause at all. Think of the poor wife who has done nothing wrong and have had always dreamt of a loving and caring husband. The sacred institutions of marriage have forced upon her to live in misery and remind herself daily that she is living in misery. The bonds are too hard for her to break and instead of supporting her to free herself , the society pushes back with all the force they do.
Result : A disinterested life !!

I am forced to not believe in the sanctity of all the insitutions we have put into practice. And it does not end here.

There will be a time when the husband will bounce back ( the law of averages will prevail ) but he will not have time on his hand. The wife would have either comitted suicide by this time , would have ventured into unwillingly relations Or would have been too disinterested even to continue living or even thinking of a possibility of living again happily.
More than that , her ego will not allow her to be happy with the husband again. And there goes the final opportunity !!!


I will not end without proposing what i feel best.

Most of you would have seen the movie : Life in a metro ! for those who have not seen and are contributing to the topic , i would suggest its a must watch.

I like the movie, i was moved by the movie infact. But i hated the end which Shilpa got , and infact if someone happened to watch it closely , the touch of her husband was even not confortable to her ( even after the compromise ). I dont find that life worth living.:)

And I was also wedged by an analogous feeling that solution to this problem is not that easy. Professional help seeking for the whole family or any individual requires a feeling of being at ease and their being geared up to put an honest insight into the roots of the problem, but this is as tough a nut to crack as it seems to be effortless when it comes to practical lives ! but when things turn so sad and sour, people often get adamant. They lose interest to be precise ! they catch hold of other activities or sink into other relations in order to drive the basic pleasure which is indispensable for a human being to restrain himself from for a long time, not all can be so patient, understanding and determined to bring back that lost spark !

[shashiverma]

एक वक्त लगता था ज़िंदगी की खुब्सुर्ती होते हैं रीशते . पहचान, प्यार और विश्वास निभाते है रीशते . कभी सँभालते, कभी मुस्कुराते, कभी औंसू पौंछ्ते, कभी हौसला देते, कभी मुश्कीलो से जुझते, कभी रुठ्ते, कभी मनाते .........हर पल ज़िंदगी जीते रीशते.
हाँ, ऐसी ही तो होते थे रीश्ते .....
फींर क्यों आज परीभाषा बदले दीखते हैं ये रीशते.

ज़िंदगी की ज़्रुरत से लगते है अब ये रीशते. न नीभ्ते फींर भी लोगो से बंधे ये रीशते . कही मज्बुरी का नाम धरे, कही ख़ुद मज्बुर होते रीशते . कही खोखली नीव पर रखे, कही सोच की नीव पर रखे खोखलापन नीभाते रीशते. साथ चलने को लोग रीशते जोड़ते हैं, फींर भी क्यों दूर भागते हैं ये रीशते. लोग वीश्वास भी करते हैं, प्यार भी करते हैं.......फींर भी क्यों नहीं जीते हैं ये रीशते. जाने कीस आधार पर रखे, कीस आधार पर बीखरते हैं ये रीशते.

मैं सुन्दरता ढूँढ रही थी रीशतो में, जीतना जाना पास जाकर .....लगा हर पहचान पर दम तोडते ये रीशते. मुखुटो के पीछे से साँस लेने की जगह ढूँढ्ते ये रीशते. अब तो लगते सिर्फ़ बैसाखी से है ये रीशते.....थमा हाथ ज़रूरतों ने, मजबूरी सा नाम धरा.....साथ का भ्रम पाले....अकेलेपन में घुटते...आज़ादी ढूँढ्ते ये रीशते. ज़िंदगी का गर आधार होते है रीशते तो क्यों इतने बदसूरत से देखते हैं ये रीशते. सरल सी ज़िंदगी में क्यों उल्झते उल्झाते रीशते. क्यों नहीं अब जीते हैं ये रीशते. क्यों हर पल फींर भी बनते और बीगड़ते हैं रीशते.
कल लगते थे जीने की ताकत, ज़िंदगी की सुन्दरता होते हैं रीशते......अब लगते कीताबे बातो से ये रीशते, सीरफ कल्पनाओ में ही जीते हैं ये रीशते.

[poonam]

Well, the entire concept of Relationships (here I don’t necessarily mean couple, could be any kind of relationship, by birth or by choice) is nothing but one Real Time process. As you grow as a person, your viewpoint keeps changing; the picture keeps changing, for better I would say. The best teacher is life and by life I mean life lived by you so far which could never be the same for any two individuals. We have our lessons learnt with each passing day!

As they say there is no real fear, going with the same analogy…there is no real complete existence of a relationship in real time. Its all fluid and more or less the concept is the axis of everything else going on in our lives and the world per se actually. How one person relates to another…be it your spouse, kids, parents, friends, boss or colleagues is the central key point for whatever happens around us (of course, barring those natural phenomenon).

Only when you have lived your life (or may be a phase of it) and when u visualizes your life in retrospect then only you will be able to get the true real picture. Nothing in this world/life is real.
So, in a nutshell, it’s a sort of paradox, though human relationships are a real time process, it is happening to you but at the same time its not real actually. I know getting too philosophical now…so I better shut up…

I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying........:D.( well, that was not me but Oscar Wilde but I do agree with him here…)

[navingulia]

has anyone heard of "unconditional Love"
When we can love people for the sake of loving, because we want to love and not because we want to possess them dominate them r rule them, we wouldnot have pain.
When parents love their children, its fine but problem arises when they want to possess their children and every decision the children take. The parents are only extending their lives through the children, they dont want the children to have their own lives with its own 7joys and sorrows, mistakes and victories and failures.

When we love someone to dominate that person and his decisions and activities with our expectations, we are only trying to expand our own existence on others by snatching away theirs.

When i was a child I used to love catching a bird/sparrow and then patting and cuddling it, thinking i am giving it love whereas the bird was hell scared and frustrated and exhausted. As I grew up I learnt the joy of watching the bird in its free life and living its life, rather than making the bird live my life.

when we make other people live our lives we are restricting our growth. When we learn to live what other people live, feel and experience, we grow and evolve.

I say "meeting one more person is like leading one more life"

our love and our happiness shouldnot be bound with terms and conditions.

[jitendershooda]

has anyone heard of "unconditional Love"
When we can love people for the sake of loving, because we want to love and not because we want to possess them dominate them r rule them, we wouldnot have pain.
When parents love their children, its fine but problem arises when they want to possess their children and every decision the children take. The parents are only extending their lives through the children, they dont want the children to have their own lives with its own 7joys and sorrows, mistakes and victories and failures.

When we love someone to dominate that person and his decisions and activities with our expectations, we are only trying to expand our own existence on others by snatching away theirs.

When i was a child I used to love catching a bird/sparrow and then patting and cuddling it, thinking i am giving it love whereas the bird was hell scared and frustrated and exhausted. As I grew up I learnt the joy of watching the bird in its free life and living its life, rather than making the bird live my life.

when we make other people live our lives we are restricting our growth. When we learn to live what other people live, feel and experience, we grow and evolve.

I say "meeting one more person is like leading one more life"

our love and our happiness shouldnot be bound with terms and conditions.

Badhiya Thoughts bhai saab.

[shweta123]

एक वक्त लगता था ज़िंदगी की खुब्सुर्ती होते हैं रीशते . पहचान, प्यार और विश्वास निभाते है रीशते . कभी सँभालते, कभी मुस्कुराते, कभी औंसू पौंछ्ते, कभी हौसला देते, कभी मुश्कीलो से जुझते, कभी रुठ्ते, कभी मनाते .........हर पल ज़िंदगी जीते रीशते.
हाँ, ऐसी ही तो होते थे रीश्ते .....
फींर क्यों आज परीभाषा बदले दीखते हैं ये रीशते.

ज़िंदगी की ज़्रुरत से लगते है अब ये रीशते. न नीभ्ते फींर भी लोगो से बंधे ये रीशते . कही मज्बुरी का नाम धरे, कही ख़ुद मज्बुर होते रीशते . कही खोखली नीव पर रखे, कही सोच की नीव पर रखे खोखलापन नीभाते रीशते. साथ चलने को लोग रीशते जोड़ते हैं, फींर भी क्यों दूर भागते हैं ये रीशते. लोग वीश्वास भी करते हैं, प्यार भी करते हैं.......फींर भी क्यों नहीं जीते हैं ये रीशते. जाने कीस आधार पर रखे, कीस आधार पर बीखरते हैं ये रीशते.

मैं सुन्दरता ढूँढ रही थी रीशतो में, जीतना जाना पास जाकर .....लगा हर पहचान पर दम तोडते ये रीशते. मुखुटो के पीछे से साँस लेने की जगह ढूँढ्ते ये रीशते. अब तो लगते सिर्फ़ बैसाखी से है ये रीशते.....थमा हाथ ज़रूरतों ने, मजबूरी सा नाम धरा.....साथ का भ्रम पाले....अकेलेपन में घुटते...आज़ादी ढूँढ्ते ये रीशते. ज़िंदगी का गर आधार होते है रीशते तो क्यों इतने बदसूरत से देखते हैं ये रीशते. सरल सी ज़िंदगी में क्यों उल्झते उल्झाते रीशते. क्यों नहीं अब जीते हैं ये रीशते. क्यों हर पल फींर भी बनते और बीगड़ते हैं रीशते.
कल लगते थे जीने की ताकत, ज़िंदगी की सुन्दरता होते हैं रीशते......अब लगते कीताबे बातो से ये रीशते, सीरफ कल्पनाओ में ही जीते हैं ये रीशते.

Very deep thoughts drentched in the water of sweet thoughts :)

Mai bhi kuch aisi hi lines likh rahi hu kabhi likhi thi maine ....



Kai dino se koi chehra nahi dekha
Mukhoto ke sheher me rehti hu main..........

Dikhti hain bas kuch dhoondli si lakeeren
Kabi kuch dikhaati kabhi kuch chupaati si

Rishto ke haath thaame khadi hai zindagi
Par unme hain kuch jhoot ki keele chubhi si

Aasmaan savere se khud ko bhigotaa to hai
Par us ujaale ki chamak bhi hai kuch feeki si

Kai dino se koi chehra nahi dekha
Mukhoto ke sheher me rehti hu main............

[shweta123]

has anyone heard of "unconditional Love"
When we can love people for the sake of loving, because we want to love and not because we want to possess them dominate them r rule them, we wouldnot have pain.
When parents love their children, its fine but problem arises when they want to possess their children and every decision the children take. The parents are only extending their lives through the children, they dont want the children to have their own lives with its own 7joys and sorrows, mistakes and victories and failures.

When we love someone to dominate that person and his decisions and activities with our expectations, we are only trying to expand our own existence on others by snatching away theirs.

When i was a child I used to love catching a bird/sparrow and then patting and cuddling it, thinking i am giving it love whereas the bird was hell scared and frustrated and exhausted. As I grew up I learnt the joy of watching the bird in its free life and living its life, rather than making the bird live my life.

when we make other people live our lives we are restricting our growth. When we learn to live what other people live, feel and experience, we grow and evolve.

I say "meeting one more person is like leading one more life"

our love and our happiness shouldnot be bound with terms and conditions.

Truly said :)

This is the way relationships should be, a constant endeavour to greet them with showers of love, and an undying zeal to love them without seeking anything in return ! And whats special about this concept is that if we love someone with this approach and wholesome goodness we end up being loved in return and this mutual love gives rise to a tree of happiness that gives shade in all adversities of life !

But as is said, most of the good things are tough to acquire and so is the case with this concept. It takes some time, an honest will, a dedicated heart and a loving soul to love someone unconditionally !

[shashiverma]

has anyone heard of "unconditional Love"
When we can love people for the sake of loving, because we want to love and not because we want to possess them dominate them r rule them, we wouldnot have pain.
When parents love their children, its fine but problem arises when they want to possess their children and every decision the children take. The parents are only extending their lives through the children, they dont want the children to have their own lives with its own 7joys and sorrows, mistakes and victories and failures.

When we love someone to dominate that person and his decisions and activities with our expectations, we are only trying to expand our own existence on others by snatching away theirs.

When i was a child I used to love catching a bird/sparrow and then patting and cuddling it, thinking i am giving it love whereas the bird was hell scared and frustrated and exhausted. As I grew up I learnt the joy of watching the bird in its free life and living its life, rather than making the bird live my life.

when we make other people live our lives we are restricting our growth. When we learn to live what other people live, feel and experience, we grow and evolve.

I say "meeting one more person is like leading one more life"

our love and our happiness shouldnot be bound with terms and conditions.

Thats very true Navin. And thats the only way the love is. Love do not live with any kind of conditions or expectations.
But the problem arises when we wrap it in relationships. Relationship do have expectations and they are not uncondiotional and simple like love.......atleast thats what I have seen around. That complicates the situation and looking at relationships in todays world I can only see suffocating and buried love. Anyways I am not an expert to comment on that. There is already lot discussed on this topic here. I better close it.

[shweta123]

Thats very true Navin. And thats the only way the love is. Love do not live with any kind of conditions or expectations.
But the problem arises when we wrap it in relationships. Relationship do have expectations and they are not uncondiotional and simple like love.......atleast thats what I have seen around. That complicates the situation and looking at relationships in todays world I can only see suffocating and buried love. Anyways I am not an expert to comment on that. There is already lot discussed on this topic here. I better close it.

Kabhi kabhi lagta hai Di ki life kitni complicated hai ! :)

This also a side of the coin and cant be denied ......

On one hand, unconditional love gives energy to move on with a new zeal and generates a feeling of giving ! But, on the other hand, this world of reality poses newer challenges each day, newer problems to fight with, newer difficulties to stand against and there by every human being needs a helping hand, a comforting soul and often some expectations creep in unknowingly !

But this is how life moves, this is what life is all about, so I feel that though some expectations are always there, there are dark days, there are misunderstandings too, but an unconditional love doesnt means no expectations, it means expectations which are logical, which are normal, which are justified, which is again very subjective but true.

But these expectations must not be laid at the forefront, they must be kept aside at times and then the relationship must be pumped in with a newer blood to breath afresh again ! Expectations can never be detached, but still unconditional love can arise amongst this situation too....... :)

[cooljat]

Very pragmatic reply Poons, Second ur viewpoint! :):)
Specially the bold lines; beauty with brains, a very rare sight!! ;):p

Rock on
Jit


Well, the entire concept of Relationships (here I don’t necessarily mean couple, could be any kind of relationship, by birth or by choice) is nothing but one Real Time process. As you grow as a person, your viewpoint keeps changing; the picture keeps changing, for better I would say. The best teacher is life and by life I mean life lived by you so far which could never be the same for any two individuals. We have our lessons learnt with each passing day!

As they say there is no real fear, going with the same analogy…there is no real complete existence of a relationship in real time. Its all fluid and more or less the concept is the axis of everything else going on in our lives and the world per se actually. How one person relates to another…be it your spouse, kids, parents, friends, boss or colleagues is the central key point for whatever happens around us (of course, barring those natural phenomenon).

Only when you have lived your life (or may be a phase of it) and when u visualizes your life in retrospect then only you will be able to get the true real picture. Nothing in this world/life is real.
So, in a nutshell, it’s a sort of paradox, though human relationships are a real time process, it is happening to you but at the same time its not real actually. I know getting too philosophical now…so I better shut up…

I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying........:D.( well, that was not me but Oscar Wilde but I do agree with him here…)

[poonam]

Very pragmatic reply Poons, Second ur viewpoint! :):)
Specially the bold lines; beauty with brains, a very rare sight!! ;):p

Rock on
Jit

Well, thanks Jit!

I, for a second there, thought the write up was so “stellar and explicit” that no one understood anything (as agreeing once again with those bold lines, speaking for myself though)….hehhe...:D

[navingulia]

Budha was anguished, he sat under a tree for an infinity and he realised "desire is the cause of pain" - desire to achieve, desire to attain, desire to possess. He said 'no desire no pain'
True
Now taking it from where Budha left it. Not desiring is like not living. Desire, expect but dont bind your happiness, joy, satisfaction and love to the desire.
(Here you can use expectation and desire to mean same. You expect what you desire to happen.)
Desiring is a programming of our genes, we are bound by it. We have to evolve/grow beyond it. But do we want to?
1. Sometimes we take pleasure and satisfaction in giving up - 'there is pain, suffering, its tough' - we accept to be in pain. It is kind of self punishing, like tapasya of a yogi. When we punish ourselves (not eating or inflicting physical or emotional pain), we get a calm and peace effect because that itself is going against our genetic programmimg which compells us to protect ourselves and strive for power and supremacy.
2. Sometimes we accept defeat, repeatedly telling ourselves 'how difficult it is' and hence providing ourselves the reason for losing, or for not being able to do it.
3. Possessing is a compulsion of our genetic programming. We have to learn to let go if we want to evolve beyond our present (animalistic/genetic) existence.

"growing and evolving beyond our present state is the key"

Live in a state of superconcious. Experience the pain, the pleasure, the joy, the rise, the fall, the heat, the chill, the wetness, the dryness, the flying, the sinking, the tears, the laughter and use these experience to grow beyond them.

On a lighter note.
When my first girlfriend left me, i was a little devastated. i was talking to a senior and telling him "sir my girlfriend left me". He said "dont worry, by the time 3-4 leave you, you will get used to it"
When people have wanted to leave me (to whatever extent, little, more or totally), I have let them(they as it is would).

We cannot look at the world through windows in our limited existence. We have to expand our existence, giving ourselves bigger goals than merely achieving/possessing.

[navingulia]

but an unconditional love doesnt means no expectations, it means expectations which are logical, which are normal, which are justified, which is again very subjective but true.[/B]

But these expectations must not be laid at the forefront, they must be kept aside at times and then the relationship must be pumped in with a newer blood to breath afresh again ! Expectations can never be detached, but still unconditional love can arise amongst this situation too....... :)

Shweta Ji, to add a perspective, see, everybody would feel his expectations are logical and justified, who wouldnt

one of my cousins while talking to me was regularly using "kam se kam (atleast)" e.g kam s kam ye to ho, kam se kam wo to ho, etc
i told her that you have tied your happiness and peace to this 'kam se kam'.
arey baba, when ghenghis khan after conquering the whole world wanted ki 'kam se kam wo amar ho jaae', he wanted 'atleast i shouldnt die'. Is kam se kam aur minimum ki koi seema nahin hai, hum swayam ko isme baandh nahin sakte.

[shweta123]

Shweta Ji, to add a perspective, see, everybody would feel his expectations are logical and justified, who wouldnt

one of my cousins while talking to me was regularly using "kam se kam (atleast)" e.g kam s kam ye to ho, kam se kam wo to ho, etc
i told her that you have tied your happiness and peace to this 'kam se kam'.
arey baba, when ghenghis khan after conquering the whole world wanted ki 'kam se kam wo amar ho jaae', he wanted 'atleast i shouldnt die'. Is kam se kam aur minimum ki koi seema nahin hai, hum swayam ko isme baandh nahin sakte.

Wonderful and a pertinent insight must say ! Well, when I used these terms like logical and justifiable expectations, the I also meant that these must be logical taking into cognisance many a kind of social and behavioural factors around, and these must not be laid at the forefront ! Beacuse, if we keep them following in rigid sense then we are bound to overlook others' perspective many a times. Still, I agree that we must work on this front and try keeping this 'minimum' really !

[pscil]

एक वक्त लगता था ज़िंदगी की खुब्सुर्ती होते हैं रीशते . पहचान, प्यार और विश्वास निभाते है रीशते . कभी सँभालते, कभी मुस्कुराते, कभी औंसू पौंछ्ते, कभी हौसला देते, कभी मुश्कीलो से जुझते, कभी रुठ्ते, कभी मनाते .........हर पल ज़िंदगी जीते रीशते.
हाँ, ऐसी ही तो होते थे रीश्ते .....
फींर क्यों आज परीभाषा बदले दीखते हैं ये रीशते.

ज़िंदगी की ज़्रुरत से लगते है अब ये रीशते. न नीभ्ते फींर भी लोगो से बंधे ये रीशते . कही मज्बुरी का नाम धरे, कही ख़ुद मज्बुर होते रीशते . कही खोखली नीव पर रखे, कही सोच की नीव पर रखे खोखलापन नीभाते रीशते. साथ चलने को लोग रीशते जोड़ते हैं, फींर भी क्यों दूर भागते हैं ये रीशते. लोग वीश्वास भी करते हैं, प्यार भी करते हैं.......फींर भी क्यों नहीं जीते हैं ये रीशते. जाने कीस आधार पर रखे, कीस आधार पर बीखरते हैं ये रीशते.

मैं सुन्दरता ढूँढ रही थी रीशतो में, जीतना जाना पास जाकर .....लगा हर पहचान पर दम तोडते ये रीशते. मुखुटो के पीछे से साँस लेने की जगह ढूँढ्ते ये रीशते. अब तो लगते सिर्फ़ बैसाखी से है ये रीशते.....थमा हाथ ज़रूरतों ने, मजबूरी सा नाम धरा.....साथ का भ्रम पाले....अकेलेपन में घुटते...आज़ादी ढूँढ्ते ये रीशते. ज़िंदगी का गर आधार होते है रीशते तो क्यों इतने बदसूरत से देखते हैं ये रीशते. सरल सी ज़िंदगी में क्यों उल्झते उल्झाते रीशते. क्यों नहीं अब जीते हैं ये रीशते. क्यों हर पल फींर भी बनते और बीगड़ते हैं रीशते.
कल लगते थे जीने की ताकत, ज़िंदगी की सुन्दरता होते हैं रीशते......अब लगते कीताबे बातो से ये रीशते, सीरफ कल्पनाओ में ही जीते हैं ये रीशते.

What beautiful lines to describe the existential self. This contradiction you describe is because what people call love is only an illusion. In reality the more you talk about love is the more you hate. All dualities of love and hate good and evil are contradictory. The true essence lies in just being