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shweta123
March 10th, 2008, 11:13 AM
Purdah or Pardaa has been defined somewhere as the practice of preventing men from seeing women. This takes two forms: physical segregation of the sexes, and the requirement for women to cover their bodies and conceal their form. Purdah exists in various forms in the Islamic world and among Hindu women in parts of India.

In a world where we talk about women empowerment and the likes, this practice of observing pardaa is still prevalent, not even in villages but in big cities too. And a pardaa has nothing to do with the education level of the lady, background of her upbringing, her yearning to follow this system, her reliance in this ritual etc. It’s a self proclaimed instruction that is to be observed to confirm a woman’s integrity, her respect towards her in laws and her adherence to our so called cultural requirements for a good ‘bahu’. :rolleyes:

I have visited many an areas in Delhi itself, and I often sink into deep thoughts on seeing highly educated girls and women who never come before any men who visit their house unless they are the only ones back home and that too with a big ghoonghat. More surprise hits me to see some women who also work in offices, and are successfully accomplishing their duties and working with all male counterparts around, but when they return home, they take a steep turn to return to their ‘ghoonghat spree’ – an altogether shift in dialect that happens each day and they don’t dare to break this erroneous belief and life moves on. But is this anything more than useless show-off just to please a strata for whom a good bahu is a pardaa wali bahu? And their husbands, ahaa proud of their women ! What is this ? What they think they are doing and proving ? :confused:

And a somewhat funny side to this system is that there are lots of women who lay no stone upturned to pick futile fights with their men folks on trivial issues on a daily basis but still are very punctual about their pardaas ! They do nothing short of just literally hitting them, but with pardaa ! In a nutshell, a pardaa is no pledge of a respect filled person behind it. Its more of a obligation, which often sinks into the shoes of proving a woman’s good moral values, her certificate of observing due respect to her in laws, her pious and rules abiding nature etc.

Nothing is right or wrong it’s the circumstances that make it so. Lets talk about this pardaa system, the logic behind its origin, how it devolved down the lane of time, how its shape saw many phases and how has it come to rest on the shoulders of today.

dkumars
March 10th, 2008, 12:58 PM
Parda bahut jaroori hai. Mein iska kattar samarthak hoon. :p:D;)

gaganjat
March 10th, 2008, 01:53 PM
ib tai choriyaan salwar-kameez bhi pahrna chod rhe sai...parda tai door ki baat sai :rolleyes:
...cant talk about parda till the time we get them back to wearing salwaar-kameez:p

I believe now the girls are confident enough to handle things (ched-chad karne wale , sit and talk with elders in the family nd stuff) so parda is not that important any more.

choti-choti families sai aaj kaal , agar ghar ki lugaiyan ae ghungat kare rahengi to bade-bhudda tai kun baat karega. Its good that parda is disappearing now.

I have really old-fashioned values but I am still against parda but if women are out of parda they need to know how to behave out of it.

Real parda is 'respect and self-esteem'

shweta123
March 10th, 2008, 02:22 PM
ib tai choriyaan salwar-kameez bhi pahrna chod rhe sai...parda tai door ki baat sai :rolleyes:
...cant talk about parda till the time we get them back to wearing salwaar-kameez:p

I believe now the girls are confident enough to handle things (ched-chad karne wale , sit and talk with elders in the family nd stuff) so parda is not that important any more.

choti-choti families sai aaj kaal , agar ghar ki lugaiyan ae ghungat kare rahengi to bade-bhudda tai kun baat karega. Its good that parda is disappearing now.

I have really old-fashioned values but I am still against parda but if women are out of parda they need to know how to behave out of it.

Real parda is 'respect and self-esteem'


Chorriyan bhale hi salwar kameez pehanna chod rahi ho, par aise kayi "rich" ghar hain jinki choriyyan te salwar kameej na pehnti par bahuo pe saare kaanoon lagoo hain........ and mind me in well off families ! Undoubtedly, we are getting out of this, but very slowly.

Even the educated and working husbands want their better half to observe a pardaa when she comes to live at in-laws place because by advocating a no-pardaa, he thinks that he is disappointing his parents.

Problem lies not in pardaa or no-pardaa, it lies in the mentality behind, the hypocracy that surrounds it and the double standards people adopt as regards to this practice.

gaganjat
March 10th, 2008, 02:27 PM
bahut mulajib farmaaya aapne mohtaarma!



Chorriyan bhale hi salwar kameez pehanna chod rahi ho, par aise kayi "rich" ghar hain jinki choriyyan te salwar kameej na pehnti par bahuo pe saare kaanoon lagoo hain........ and mind me in well off families ! Undoubtedly, we are getting out of this, but very slowly.

Even the educated and working husbands want their better half to observe a pardaa when she comes to live at in-laws place because by advocating a no-pardaa, he thinks that he is disappointing his parents.

Problem lies not in pardaa or no-pardaa, it lies in the mentality behind, the hypocracy that surrounds it and the double standards people adopt as regards to this practice.

shweta123
March 10th, 2008, 02:40 PM
bahut mulajib farmaaya aapne mohtaarma!

Ji mulajib ya munasib na bhi farmaaya hota to bhi ye watan aise hi chal raha hota jaise ab chal raha hai.

Beherhaal, gaur farmaaiyega janaab ki aap kisi ko 'behave' karne ki taalim nahi de sakte..... khuda ne insaan ko sikhaane ki nemat bakhshi hai par seekhna na seekhna usne bando pe chod diyaa hai. :)

gaganjat
March 10th, 2008, 02:50 PM
hakikat bayaan ki aapne ! bahut khoob , bahut khoob !

iss waqut mere paas agar sone ki asharfiyan hoti, to aapko ko ik peetal ki asharfi inaam me de deta:p

Vaise mai khuda ka banda nahi hu aur mere se sekhne ki jarorat bhi mat samajyega.

Ji mulajib ya munasib na bhi farmaaya hota to bhi ye watan aise hi chal raha hota jaise ab chal raha hai.

Beherhaal, gaur farmaaiyega janaab ki aap kisi ko 'behave' karne ki taalim nahi de sakte..... khuda ne insaan ko sikhaane ki nemat bakhshi hai par seekhna na seekhna usne bando pe chod diyaa hai. :)

dreamer
March 10th, 2008, 03:03 PM
ib tai choriyaan salwar-kameez bhi pahrna chod rhe sai...parda tai door ki baat sai :rolleyes:
...cant talk about parda till the time we get them back to wearing salwaar-kameez:p

I believe now the girls are confident enough to handle things (ched-chad karne wale , sit and talk with elders in the family nd stuff) so parda is not that important any more.

choti-choti families sai aaj kaal , agar ghar ki lugaiyan ae ghungat kare rahengi to bade-bhudda tai kun baat karega. Its good that parda is disappearing now.

I have really old-fashioned values but I am still against parda but if women are out of parda they need to know how to behave out of it.

Real parda is 'respect and self-esteem'




Kya baat hai yaar Gagan... Great

shweta123
March 10th, 2008, 03:06 PM
hakikat bayaan ki aapne ! bahut khoob , bahut khoob !

iss waqut mere paas agar sone ki asharfiyan hoti, to aapko ko ik peetal ki asharfi inaam me de deta:p

Vaise mai khuda ka banda nahi hu aur mere se sekhne ki jarorat bhi mat samajyega.

bahut khoob ! .... par 'bahut' to khud hi 'khoob' hota hai ....... :rolleyes:

Aapki jaraanavaazi ke liye shukriyaa..... ab jabki aap sone ki asharfiyon se mehroom hain, to peetal na de ke diamond ki asharfiyaan baksh sakte hain ....... khair aapki marji ....... aur aap khuda ke bande nahi hain jaan kar taazub hua janaab .... humne suna tha ki har insaan us upar waale ka hi banda hai .... :)

Well, its quite Off the topic as is said ..... so lemme come out of this .... any constructive worth sharing philosophy sir, apart from this ? Do you think a girl doesnt respects her father and brother as she is obliged to keep a pardaa from his father-in-law and elder brother-in-law, but not her father and brother? What do you think must have been the logice behind this :rolleyes:

Well, I personally beleive all the traditions were framed with a logic standing behind them, but as the time passed those logics vanished but the traditions remained and changed shape......

umeshkalia
March 10th, 2008, 03:50 PM
why fix it when its not broken

shweta123
March 10th, 2008, 04:07 PM
why fix it when its not broken

So easy to say let it continue when it appeals some people ! What about the lady who has to put a dupatta all around her head irrespective of the weather around, irrespective of the inconvenience caused and what for, to please someone ! If this pleasing is the case than how is it something better than a road show to please some road side people? :rolleyes:

I guess, first spend some days, jammed in a duppatta all through the day, work in kitchen with it, go out in your freinds with it and then come back and lets discuss again :rolleyes: ....... "pleasing" as you said is a sick mindset if its so !

And, if women fail to understand what a man undergoes many a times then is it a predetermined cumpulsory punishment for her inability to be phychologically too fast to read minds precisely !

I am sorry to say, it is broken and need to be fixed. Step into the shoes of this practice and you will see what it means to be pardaa clad all the times.

vicky
March 10th, 2008, 04:08 PM
hum sab apne bado ki izzat karte hain....phir esa kyon hota hae chhota hi bado se ashirwad lete hain(khas kar bahu saas se)....why is it not the other way round....afterall its only the feelings that matter....

shadi ke baad ladki hi kyun sasuraal jati hae, ladka aur ladki to barabar hote hain....phir ladke kyon sasural rehne nahi jate......

ese kyon hota hae ki shadi ki jodi mein mostly ladka ladki se bada hota....y is it not the other way round....normally

babies are born by women but they mostly are known by father's name...
there are many societies where children are known by their mothers name (but believe me they haven't shown much progress because of that)

& finally....the eternal wish of most women......y is it that only women have to give birth to babies....men also should get pregnant.....

if a simple pardah can keep a family happy, then i don't think its big deal, although yeh kahi nahi likha hae ki...sukhi vivahit jeevan ka raz hae pardah

but why fix it when its not broken.......its a philosophy that makes life easy

the basic problem is that women think they are always being bullied....except for a few minority,....baki sach kya hae yeh hum sab jante hain:p but then 19-20 to hota hi hae...

i am not a great philosopher but....freedom is not choice of action but its responsibilty of decision

men are also sacrificing a lot which women mostly fail to appreciate....same is true for men also....men hardly appreciate what their women do...

& that is the problem....its not presence of purdaah that is a problem, actually its absence of mutually admiration and respect that is the problem

aur jaha tak rivaj ka sawal hae....usi se to culture banta hae....sirf bol dene se nahi hota...let us not change so much ke pehchan hi khatam ho jaye

shweta123
March 10th, 2008, 04:08 PM
why fix it when its not broken

Oh ..... you edited what you wrote..... anyways, I answered what you wrote.

mukeshkumar007
March 10th, 2008, 04:42 PM
sati hona bi ek tradition tha continue rehne dete phir, child marriage bi ek tradition tha kyo 30-30 saal tak baite rehte hai phir karwa lena chaiye , culture jo hai.. ek widow ki shaadi nai hona aur usko zindagi bhar white saari maie sasural rehna bi ek tradition hi tha.. kyo continue nai rakha, chalne dena chaiye tha..

ek man ko dhoti kurta pehnna bi culture maie hi tha phir kya huwa...

culture ke naam par ek woman ki life ko narak bana ke rakh diya (mostly in villages ).. culture maie achi cheez bi hoti hai aur buri bi.. aur samjdari yehi hai ki jo buri hai usko mita dena chaiye society se... faltu maie culture ki duwai nai deni chaiye..

parda warda sab bakwas hai, ek aurat ko ghar maie bado ke samne dang se present hona chaiye yeh baat to samaj maie ati hai lakin bina koi rationality ke chehre ko dhake rehne ka kya matlab..

sanjeetsparp
March 10th, 2008, 05:39 PM
Perda hai parda hai ... gerat qualli
Perde main rehne do perda na uthao .....
Teri chunriya dil le gari....
Aaja na chole meri chunari sanam

kaya song thee perda na hota to ye kehaan se bante..

Aaj kel to parda bhi chhota ho gaya hai .... bike pe baithe ke pichli seat pe ghar walon se bachne ke liye perda kaam aata hai .....

Perda na hota to bach ke dikaati..

Sir main dhool se bachhane ke liye parda kaam aata hai ....

Hum khabhi nahi bolte perda karo .......... i am not a samarthak of parda .....
koi faayeda nahi hai .........

aaj kel kehan perda hai ... aaj kel to jeans or tshirt ka milan hi nahi hota hai bechaari dono aapas main milne ko tarasti rehti hain yaar ...... perde ki sir pe nahi kehin or jaroorat hai aaj kel .......kripya t-shirt or jeans ka milan karao....

shweta123
March 10th, 2008, 05:47 PM
Perda hai parda hai ... gerat qualli
Perde main rehne do perda na uthao .....
Teri chunriya dil le gari....
Aaja na chole meri chunari sanam

kaya song thee perda na hota to ye kehaan se bante..

Aaj kel to parda bhi chhota ho gaya hai .... bike pe baithe ke pichli seat pe ghar walon se bachne ke liye perda kaam aata hai .....

Perda na hota to bach ke dikaati..

Sir main dhool se bachhane ke liye parda kaam aata hai ....

Hum khabhi nahi bolte perda karo .......... i am not a samarthak of parda .....
koi faayeda nahi hai .........

aaj kel kehan perda hai ... aaj kel to jeans or tshirt ka milan hi nahi hota hai bechaari dono aapas main milne ko tarasti rehti hain yaar ...... perde ki sir pe nahi kehin or jaroorat hai aaj kel .......kripya t-shirt or jeans ka milan karao....

Nice observation Sanjeet ji ! I heratily wish my plea reaches the culprits ..... Mr. T-Shirt and Miss Jeans ..... kindly hear what Sanjeet sir has to say ;)

Pardaa is not always bad.... I agree....... undoubtedly.... and specially in situations you mentioned :p .... but lemme tell you ....... at times I have seen such "T-shirt- jeans separate separate" :p type of girls wearing a good ghoonghat when they get married and they say ........ " ye saale budhhe ko kaun samjhaaye" ......... ab bas yehi kehna hai ki aisi haalat shobha nahi deti ..... thoda sa bado ko samajhna chahiye aur bahut saara bacchho ko :)

jitendershooda
March 10th, 2008, 07:02 PM
Nothing is right or wrong it’s the circumstances that make it so. Lets talk about this pardaa system, the logic behind its origin, how it devolved down the lane of time, how its shape saw many phases and how has it come to rest on the shoulders of today.

Shweta, you have written a good piece. Its the reality that on the one hand some women are doing pardah and on the other she is ripping off each and everything of her inlaws. .... ha ha ek baat yaad aagi ...

2 dada ke balkan mein rolla ho rahya tha .... ek lugai baddi phool ke batan lag rahi ... Eee manne to karke ghunghat uss buddhe ke marya dhakka padya jake ... ha ha ha

Mukesh ne bhi sahi kahya ki jo kuritiyan hein unko chod dena chahiye .... lekin

who will decide what is wrong and what is right. And what will be the parameters for that.

What we are finding wrong was right for our elders and what we feel to be wrong will be right for our youngers.

Like Sanjeet said and Sweta also promoted that thought ... but whats wrong in that? Ek admi baniyan pehar ke bahar gaal mein hand sake hai ... er kae to usne bhi upar chadhae rahenge pet kadh ke garmi mein ... ha ha ... to why there should not be a gap between the T-Shirt and Jeans. ha ha ha

Eeb sari peharen sein jib bhi to wo portion dikhe ee se janani ka.

Shweta rightly said its not limited to the uneducated ones. Here in UK i have seen many girls from muslims they cover their full heads and even learned ones too. In an interview last year one such girl was there and she was very happy to keep this as its their culture and she find it very cool to wear that.

Here it comes that its on the person what he feels to wear and what not. In India we still cant accept a women to show off some of her skin or curves. Why its wrong if a lady shows off a bit or when she wear light clothings?

About its origin, I feel that it started after the arrival of mugals in india ... as the Puri, Ajanta and khajuraho depicts open culture of that time. After that when moguls started looting wealth and ladies also .... then people started keeping their ladies at home to protect them and they took the works outside. This was a sheilding they were providing to their women that seems to be exploitation in todays world. Also there are several stories when a mugal soldier looked at beautiful lady and he took her away ... so they have started covering their ladies too with this Purdah. This was good in those days but bad today. Times changed and now there are different circumstances and so accordingly these necessasities of older days (those become tradition in the mean time ) are now depleting. What I feel is that its only till our parents generation is there and there will be no purdah in our communities in coming 15-20 years. The situation is changing rapidly in villages also.

sumitsehrawat
March 10th, 2008, 08:21 PM
"Pardah" .... .ufff!!
I mean...this ain't mughal period...it's 2008...this practice better be abolished. We actually don't need it.

Just checkout the attached pic. Beshak tey iske maah Ibraham 'The' Dawood baithya ho [:x]!

Thanks,
Sumit

ygulia
March 10th, 2008, 08:42 PM
It was the need of hour at that time. Pardaa is not needed any more in the present day society. Education is the only tool to get rid of such customs.

vikasgulia
March 11th, 2008, 11:47 AM
I have heard it time and again that nothing can be more beautiful than a woman in purdahh.(though said in a different context)..If we abolish this, what will happen to this..we will not have beautiful women around ? wt say :p

shweta123
March 11th, 2008, 11:55 AM
I have heard it time and again that nothing can be more beautiful than a woman in purdahh.(though said in a different context)..If we abolish this, what will happen to this..we will not have beautiful women around ? wt say :p

Jaise pardaa na hua A-one beauty parlour ho gaya :p .....

Let me tell you one more limitation of a Pardaa which implies mystery at times but can turn into a disaapointment... .... Keeping the same old woman under pardaa is a silent prayer hoping to see a new beauty each time, but it ends in disappointment ...... 'aree yaar tum to wohi ho...... waisi hi ho....... please pardaa mat kiya karo har baar pardaa uthta hai to shock lagta hai" :eek: !

prashantacmet
March 11th, 2008, 12:43 PM
Purdah or Pardaa has been defined somewhere as the practice of preventing men from seeing women. This takes two forms: physical segregation of the sexes, and the requirement for women to cover their bodies and conceal their form. Purdah exists in various forms in the Islamic world and among Hindu women in parts of India.

In a world where we talk about women empowerment and the likes, this practice of observing pardaa is still prevalent, not even in villages but in big cities too. And a pardaa has nothing to do with the education level of the lady, background of her upbringing, her yearning to follow this system, her reliance in this ritual etc. It’s a self proclaimed instruction that is to be observed to confirm a woman’s integrity, her respect towards her in laws and her adherence to our so called cultural requirements for a good ‘bahu’. :rolleyes:

I have visited many an areas in Delhi itself, and I often sink into deep thoughts on seeing highly educated girls and women who never come before any men who visit their house unless they are the only ones back home and that too with a big ghoonghat. More surprise hits me to see some women who also work in offices, and are successfully accomplishing their duties and working with all male counterparts around, but when they return home, they take a steep turn to return to their ‘ghoonghat spree’ – an altogether shift in dialect that happens each day and they don’t dare to break this erroneous belief and life moves on. But is this anything more than useless show-off just to please a strata for whom a good bahu is a pardaa wali bahu? And their husbands, ahaa proud of their women ! What is this ? What they think they are doing and proving ? :confused:

And a somewhat funny side to this system is that there are lots of women who lay no stone upturned to pick futile fights with their men folks on trivial issues on a daily basis but still are very punctual about their pardaas ! They do nothing short of just literally hitting them, but with pardaa ! In a nutshell, a pardaa is no pledge of a respect filled person behind it. Its more of a obligation, which often sinks into the shoes of proving a woman’s good moral values, her certificate of observing due respect to her in laws, her pious and rules abiding nature etc.

Nothing is right or wrong it’s the circumstances that make it so. Lets talk about this pardaa system, the logic behind its origin, how it devolved down the lane of time, how its shape saw many phases and how has it come to rest on the shoulders of today.

It is just an influence of long period islamic rules in our country. Aryans/scythians never practised this until islamic invaders crippled us. It was never in our culture, better to get rid of it.

dkumars
March 11th, 2008, 04:13 PM
It is just an influence of long period islamic rules in our country. Aryans/scythians never practised this until islamic invaders crippled us. It was never in our culture, better to get rid of it.


Ranna jhotta tai keh hi ga ki get rid of... arrai mugla tai koi dikkat na thi... darr tai tere kaise ka hai daangar... haha:p;):D

sanjeetsparp
March 11th, 2008, 04:39 PM
See Robin, Karthik & UV ....
too thirsty and staring the water bottles....






Parde ki jarurat hai ya nahi??????????????

Ab ye mat bolna Boys will be boys :D

dreamer
March 11th, 2008, 04:44 PM
See Robin, Karthik & UV ....
too thirsty and staring the water bottles....






Parde ki jarurat hai ya nahi??????????????

Ab ye mat bolna Boys will be boys :D



Bhai yuh photu kith tai maarya eeb !!!

shweta123
March 11th, 2008, 04:45 PM
See Robin, Karthik & UV ....
too thirsty and staring the water bottles....






Parde ki jarurat hai ya nahi??????????????

Ab ye mat bolna Boys will be boys :D

Hum doosre type ke parde ki baat kar rahe the :rolleyes:

dkumars
March 11th, 2008, 04:47 PM
See Robin, Karthik & UV ....
too thirsty and staring the water bottles....






Parde ki jarurat hai ya nahi??????????????

Ab ye mat bolna Boys will be boys :D


bhai tesaae aadmi ne parde tai ke lena... thankk rahe the chorre tai paani kehen lakhaave the ... ibb ismein galat ke hai ...

arr bhai bhagwaan ne khoobsurti dekhne ke liye aur admire karne ke liye hi banayi hai ... bhagwaan ki maya hai hum sab toh uske numaainde hai bass ...

prashantacmet
March 11th, 2008, 04:59 PM
Ranna jhotta tai keh hi ga ki get rid of... arrai mugla tai koi dikkat na thi... darr tai tere kaise ka hai daangar... haha:p;):D

aachaa reee pilpottan....merre jise ne ghana dard tha raakhya deekhe terre.....ROOKKAAA@@@@@@@@ghana bhoonda dard.........puranai yaad bhool jaa eibb...juwaan hoga tu na to gfhana inferiorty complex bhar jaaga terre bheetar...aapni beerbaani tai fer tu hi parda karta hadega.............ROOKAAAAAAAAA..............:p;)

dkumars
March 11th, 2008, 05:36 PM
aachaa reee pilpottan....merre jise ne ghana dard tha raakhya deekhe terre.....ROOKKAAA@@@@@@@@ghana bhoonda dard.........puranai yaad bhool jaa eibb...juwaan hoga tu na to gfhana inferiorty complex bhar jaaga terre bheetar...aapni beerbaani tai fer tu hi parda karta hadega.............ROOKAAAAAAAAA..............:p;)


hahahahaha ... tere wah sabhya bhasha sooooooooootttttt na kare thi ... jyah tahi makka isnei isski asliyat meinle aaun ... hahaha ... ibbb maare jaaaa dhindhore dhaal rukkkeeeeeeeeeeeeee ... hahaha:p

prashantacmet
March 11th, 2008, 06:07 PM
hahahahaha ... tere wah sabhya bhasha sooooooooootttttt na kare thi ... jyah tahi makka isnei isski asliyat meinle aaun ... hahaha ... ibbb maare jaaaa dhindhore dhaal rukkkeeeeeeeeeeeeee ... hahaha:p

maka ...ghani daantri na paade......maan hi jaata le

kabir
March 11th, 2008, 06:20 PM
भई मैं तो परदा प्रथा का पुरजोर विरोध करता हूँ.
दिस इज ग्रोस्ली अनफेयर ओन अस मेन. परदे वाली औरतें कैन ईजिली हैव देयर आई कैंडी विदाउट मेन ईवन नोइंग दैट. नोट डन!


Purdah or Pardaa has been defined somewhere as the practice of preventing men from seeing women. This takes two forms: physical segregation of the sexes, and the requirement for women to cover their bodies and conceal their form. Purdah exists in various forms in the Islamic world and among Hindu women in parts of India.

In a world where we talk about women empowerment and the likes, this practice of observing pardaa is still prevalent, not even in villages but in big cities too. And a pardaa has nothing to do with the education level of the lady, background of her upbringing, her yearning to follow this system, her reliance in this ritual etc. It’s a self proclaimed instruction that is to be observed to confirm a woman’s integrity, her respect towards her in laws and her adherence to our so called cultural requirements for a good ‘bahu’. :rolleyes:

I have visited many an areas in Delhi itself, and I often sink into deep thoughts on seeing highly educated girls and women who never come before any men who visit their house unless they are the only ones back home and that too with a big ghoonghat. More surprise hits me to see some women who also work in offices, and are successfully accomplishing their duties and working with all male counterparts around, but when they return home, they take a steep turn to return to their ‘ghoonghat spree’ – an altogether shift in dialect that happens each day and they don’t dare to break this erroneous belief and life moves on. But is this anything more than useless show-off just to please a strata for whom a good bahu is a pardaa wali bahu? And their husbands, ahaa proud of their women ! What is this ? What they think they are doing and proving ? :confused:

And a somewhat funny side to this system is that there are lots of women who lay no stone upturned to pick futile fights with their men folks on trivial issues on a daily basis but still are very punctual about their pardaas ! They do nothing short of just literally hitting them, but with pardaa ! In a nutshell, a pardaa is no pledge of a respect filled person behind it. Its more of a obligation, which often sinks into the shoes of proving a woman’s good moral values, her certificate of observing due respect to her in laws, her pious and rules abiding nature etc.

Nothing is right or wrong it’s the circumstances that make it so. Lets talk about this pardaa system, the logic behind its origin, how it devolved down the lane of time, how its shape saw many phases and how has it come to rest on the shoulders of today.

dndeswal
March 11th, 2008, 07:34 PM
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Those Jatnis who want to adopt (or advocate) this kind of pardaa - welcome ! Let us see who comes forward ! hehehe :)


http://www.imcworldwide.org/blog/afghanistan/uploaded_images/IMG_0056-705316.JPG



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sumitsehrawat
March 11th, 2008, 08:02 PM
Bhot badiya Deswal Sir.... [:)]!
Aao ek aur dekhe...

http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c302/babyvenus111/arab.jpg

dineshdhochak
March 12th, 2008, 03:18 AM
Hello brothers....

This is absolutely unfair with ladies but still parda system is adopted in villages upto high level. And to be frankly even today itself my mother also do parda from my grandfather in village but our parents are very liberal and allowed new generation but as a respect there should be some cloth on head always.

vijay
March 12th, 2008, 04:11 AM
Parda system was invented during the Muslim rule where Hindu rulers set this tradition to save their self respect (read... their women literally ) from the 'bad eyes' of invaders. Fundamentlists still use this weapon to show their presence.

Real respect reside in the heart but not in that piece of cloth they are supposed to wear.

As a kid i used to watch thousands of people visiting my home ( My Grand Father were MLA ) and felt that my mother was worried about the service she could provide to the family only rather than Parda or any other damn thing :)

raj_rathee
March 12th, 2008, 08:30 AM
Actually those folks asserting that the Purdah came into existence
during Mughal times may be voicing the misconceptions that probably
exist around this topic.

Check out the following which provides a different perspective on its
origins. This was after current President Patil had made similar assertions
being made here.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/Experts_lift_veil_off_purdah_origin_/articleshow/2132555.cms



Experts lift veil off purdah origin
19 Jun 2007, 0149 hrs IST,TNN

SMS NEWS to 58888 for latest updates
NEW DELHI: When UPA's Presidential candidate Pratibha Patil on Sunday said that the purdah was introduced in India during the Mughal rule "to save women from Mughal invaders," she seemed to be going against what historians and NCERT books suggest.

Historians say that purdah in India started much before Babur heralded the Mughal rule in 1526 AD. According to them, the UPA candidate's reasoning as to why the social custom emerged - to protect women from aggressors' eye - also doesn’t fully explain the causes leading to the emergence of purdah . They say that the purdah was also a status symbol of the higher classes in medieval India.

In his well-known book, 'Mediaeval India', renowned historian Satish Chandra writes that during the Delhi Sultanate period, beginning in 1206, the practice of keeping women in seclusion and asking them to veil their faces in the presence of outsiders became widespread among the upper class women. He says that the Arabs and the Turks brought the custom to India, and consequently, it became widespread in north India.

In the chapter, 'Government and economic and social life during Sultanate period', Chandra writes that, "the growth of purdah has been attributed to the fear of the Hindu women being captured by the invaders. In an age of violence, women were liable to be treated as prizes of war.

Perhaps the most important factor for the growth of purdah was social - it became a symbol of the higher classes in society. And all those who wanted to be considered respectable tried to copy it. Also, religious justification was found for it."

Nandita Prasad Sahai, who teaches a course on the gender history of mediaeval India in JNU, says that there is
no consensus amongst historians about the precise period when purdah originated in Indian society.

"Historian Kegan Paul traces the practice of the custom back to the Vedic period. And anthropologist Patricia Jeffrey says that seclusion and veiling of women was not unknown before the Muslim invasion. It appears that a social ideal recommending women to remain in seclusion to mark their complete loyalty towards their husband already existed," she says.

This is further evident in the layout of the mediaeval Chittorgarh fort that has separate quarters for women called the jenani deorhi . According to Sahai, this indicates that patriarchal values had already emerged in pre-mediaeval times. And, that a family's honour had already come to reside in the bodies of their women.

"Most historians consider the Muslim invasion as a watershed when purdah is said to have become more widespread as a defensive reaction in troubled times among the Rajput royalty trying to protect their women. In fact, the case is unproven in the absence of statistical material that could establish a change in the extent of the practice of purdah . It seems plausible, however, that the practice became more widespread amongst the Rajput royalty in trying to imitate the custom of the new ruling classes," says Sahai.

Interestingly, the peasant and working class women did not observe purdah . It was a feature primarily among upper classes.

"Over time, seclusion came to be combined with purdah/ghoonghat and became a signifier of female respectability amongst the higher classes, and part of the feminine code of modesty. That is why it was also observed among elderly female relatives," says the JNU historian.

By the 15th century, purdah became integral to the feudal etiquette of Rajasthan and was observed vis-a-vis both outsiders, as well as insiders.

Patil's statement on the origins of purdah may have been off the mark, historically. However, few will disagree with her advocacy to end the custom.

raj_rathee
March 12th, 2008, 08:58 AM
Personally I do believe that the Purdah (and general other associated mores
behind it) was effective in reducing, if not eliminating, the "socially
defined unacceptable" relationships and associations from developing.

Isn't it just a whole lot easier to flirt with someone you can
actually see?

I think it would be safe to say that for the most part men are the primary "instigators", and women are the "targets". Hence arguments that men could be the ones to adorn the Purdah instead to achieve the same purpose would seem far-fetched.

Now, whether or not the objective behind the Purdah is desirable or
not is another matter. Personally I find it frustrating... :D:eek: ...and
of course I am not the one wearing it. Also, arguments against women
having to bear this burden to uphold social mores are fair game.

I think our society is gradually resolving this issue and moving away
from the Purdah. It ain't gonna happen overnight. Thankfully
we come from a society that is not stuck in extremes...neither
talibanized nor "Khajurao"ized (oh darn! :D) and is generally open
to change, albeit gradual.

raj_rathee
March 12th, 2008, 09:28 AM
भई मैं तो परदा प्रथा का पुरजोर विरोध करता हूँ.
दिस इज ग्रोस्ली अनफेयर ओन अस मेन. परदे वाली औरतें कैन ईजिली हैव देयर आई कैंडी विदाउट मेन ईवन नोइंग दैट. नोट डन!

Vo sab tae dekhya jaa...I am more concerned about the inherent inefficiencies built into the system resulting in massive wastage of resources
and productivity within society.

Imagine spending days, perhaps months, pataoing a purdah waali...and then,
horror of horrors...munh dikhai reveals a scare!!

shweta123
March 12th, 2008, 10:32 AM
भई मैं तो परदा प्रथा का पुरजोर विरोध करता हूँ.
दिस इज ग्रोस्ली अनफेयर ओन अस मेन. परदे वाली औरतें कैन ईजिली हैव देयर आई कैंडी विदाउट मेन ईवन नोइंग दैट. नोट डन!

Ahaa ! A positive side indeed ;) ..... Well Kabir, your 'Purzor Virodhh' is taken on record ...... on a Hinglish record :p

shweta123
March 12th, 2008, 10:38 AM
Parda system was invented during the Muslim rule where Hindu rulers set this tradition to save their self respect (read... their women literally ) from the 'bad eyes' of invaders. Fundamentlists still use this weapon to show their presence.

Real respect reside in the heart but not in that piece of cloth they are supposed to wear.

As a kid i used to watch thousands of people visiting my home ( My Grand Father were MLA ) and felt that my mother was worried about the service she could provide to the family only rather than Parda or any other damn thing :)
So, whats the point ? One should either do time-pass or come out with something of use !

shweta123
March 12th, 2008, 10:53 AM
Personally I do believe that the Purdah (and general other associated mores
behind it) was effective in reducing, if not eliminating, the "socially
defined unacceptable" relationships and associations from developing.

Isn't it just a whole lot easier to flirt with someone you can
actually see?

I think it would be safe to say that for the most part men are the primary "instigators", and women are the "targets". Hence arguments that men could be the ones to adorn the Purdah instead to achieve the same purpose would seem far-fetched.

Now, whether or not the objective behind the Purdah is desirable or
not is another matter. Personally I find it frustrating... :D:eek: ...and
of course I am not the one wearing it. Also, arguments against women
having to bear this burden to uphold social mores are fair game.

I think our society is gradually resolving this issue and moving away
from the Purdah. It ain't gonna happen overnight. Thankfully
we come from a society that is not stuck in extremes...neither
talibanized nor "Khajurao"ized (oh darn! :D) and is generally open
to change, albeit gradual.

Good to know that the system seems frustating, whatever may be the inherent reason :rolleyes::).... Well, this is a fact that our society is till longing for many a modifications and refinements, yet its not stuck in extremes. Practical implementation of refined practices takes time but atleast we are always open to discussions and review of the matters at helm, except a few people who move with very stiff and rigid bent of mind !

renuchoudhary
March 16th, 2008, 11:57 AM
parda or ???????

kusumdhochak
March 16th, 2008, 12:50 PM
there is one even more serious aspect of purda. not only that women cover their faces, their voices are also expected to be never heard by the elder male members.
so women are never a part of any important discussion in the house which always has all male members. this is not only for the bahus of the house but even the girls are never allowed to take part in discussions. one can very frequently hear phrases like 'main aurton se jyada baat nahi karta', 'is ghar mein aurton ki chalti hai' etc etc..

It's so bad that half the family members don't think. they are not even familiar with the idea of thinking or having a point of view...
and think of a society where half the people don't think. the homemakers don't think!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think it is far more serious then the physical purda which in itself is anyways very bad no doubts about that.

moreover, we all agree that purda is bad, we should rather discuss some solutions to the problem..
Are families of ours, the members of this community free from purda..........

P.S. The situation i described is surely true rural places and even in small towns even if it may seem unbelievably bad

vijay
March 17th, 2008, 01:02 AM
'is ghar mein aurton ki chalti hai' etc

Is that such a bad remark ........ and if bad than for whom ? For Men or Women of that 'ghar' ...

If we think positively than this remark just tells us that women of that 'ghar' have decisive powers in every matter :)

shweta123
March 17th, 2008, 09:59 AM
there is one even more serious aspect of purda. not only that women cover their faces, their voices are also expected to be never heard by the elder male members.
so women are never a part of any important discussion in the house which always has all male members. this is not only for the bahus of the house but even the girls are never allowed to take part in discussions. one can very frequently hear phrases like 'main aurton se jyada baat nahi karta', 'is ghar mein aurton ki chalti hai' etc etc..

It's so bad that half the family members don't think. they are not even familiar with the idea of thinking or having a point of view...
and think of a society where half the people don't think. the homemakers don't think!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think it is far more serious then the physical purda which in itself is anyways very bad no doubts about that.

moreover, we all agree that purda is bad, we should rather discuss some solutions to the problem..
Are families of ours, the members of this community free from purda..........

P.S. The situation i described is surely true rural places and even in small towns even if it may seem unbelievably bad


A relevant point indeed. Often women are seen as 'women' and not as an integral part of family. In many a households, either their views are never heard or if heard they occupy a back seat.

Advocating about women empowerment or a plea against pardaa system or such similar crimes against women is not the result of any kind of battle of the sexes, its just a way out to reach out to the masses and make them believe that women should not be seen as a secluded community, rather as an integral part of all kind of systems. But unfortunately when we peep into general households women can be seen facing many a kind of silent and noisy crimes ! With advancement and upliftment in the way of living etc, these crimes have just changed shapes. There is still a long way to go.

kusumdhochak
March 29th, 2008, 12:17 PM
well Vijay ji,
If this remark was really made in positive sense then one can think about it positively...
problem to yahi hai na ki logon ko ye baat accept karna itna mushkil hai. tabhi aisa sarcastic remark dete hain. aur jahan tak maine suna hai, log aam taur par ise ghar ke male logon ko uksane aur chidhane ke liye istemal karte hain.
isliye positive sense mein lena mushkil hi hai



Is that such a bad remark ........ and if bad than for whom ? For Men or Women of that 'ghar' ...

If we think positively than this remark just tells us that women of that 'ghar' have decisive powers in every matter :)