PDA

View Full Version : Young committing suicide :-(!!



sumitsehrawat
March 17th, 2008, 11:49 AM
Around 6,000 students committed suicide in 2006
Source: http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Nearly_6000_students_committed_suicide_in_2006/articleshow/2872298.cms

In 2006, 5,857 students — or 16 a day — committed suicide across India due to exam stress. And these are just the official figures.

Shimla superintendent of police (crime), Punita Bhardwaj, said incidents of children committing suicide because of examination stress often did not get reported as traumatized parents wanted to keep the issue under wraps.

Anita Naresh, a 16-year-old from Kanpur who swallowed dye last week as she felt she had not done well in her Class X exams, is one of them. Her condition is still critical. A teenager from Chandigarh attempted suicide inside the examination centre but was taken to hospital just in time. Bangalore has witnessed a series of attempted suicides by students denied a hall ticket for a board examination owing to poor attendance.

According to Kolkata psychiatrist Debashish Roy, scores of youngsters seek counselling before and after the exam season and have to be put on medication.

It's not just board exams that get stress levels soaring in students. Entrance tests to professional courses that require extra coaching also have the same effect. St Joseph's Convent, Patna, teacher Shweta Priyadarshini put it best when she said: "Most students face two kinds of pressure: one due to the board examinations and the other due to competitive exams."

Sri Sankara Senior Secondary School, Chennai, class XII student Athreya Mukundsubramanian said he would not have any time to relax after the board examination as he would have to prepare for a series of competitive exams, including the All-India Pre-Medical and Pre-Dental papers and the IIT-JEE.

"I wish I could just fast-forward the next two months," his mother, Gayathri, said. "Why on earth can't the syllabus for entrance tests also be incorporated in the regular college syllabus so that students don't require additional coaching?" Shetty asked.

It is the combination of entrance tests and board exams that some students are finding it difficult to handle. "The examination system itself should be hanged!" That's the passionate cry from Amritsar lawyer B K Joshi. His relative, Amritsar Engineering College student Kanika Sharma died after consuming poison when she failed in mathematics.

Students have often held their teachers solely responsible for suicide. "I will come back as a ghost and harass
my teacher," the suicide note left behind by a student from a prestigious Bangalore school said.

Some students have discovered other mechanisms to deal with the pressure, like running away from home or simply refusing to appear for exams. Two boys from a school in Ahmedabad walked out of their class X board exams for fear of failure. Three students, in three separate incidents in Chandigarh, ran away from home for fear of exams.

:mad:,
Sumit

anilsinghd
March 17th, 2008, 11:08 PM
"Why on earth can't the syllabus for entrance tests also be incorporated in the regular college syllabus so that students don't require additional coaching?"

Its simple , choose one :D as i did it !!!

I only focussed on entrance and was scolded time and again while working on entrance problms in the class room. :(


On a serious note , i think the gap between school and college needs be bridged and my solution would be something like this :


get all ( say for example , those who managed more than 75 % ) into engineering college ! in ne case first year is general , so teach them and during the 1 year process , based on their performance , their institutes can be decided. ( for example : best perfomers can be taken to IITs , and next best to NITs and so on ) PS : I am not discriminating , but only categorising based on performance , because in the end quality also matters!

And i guess another half an year or may be 1 full year can be spent in respective colleges to categorise on what department they need to go.

And for this to happen , we have to make the standard of class 12th a bit high.
( it is well known that class 11th and 9th are harder than 12th and 10th respectively , which should not be the case ) !

And in actuality , we have to think these from lower classes as well , studies should be more focussed and creativity , intelligence should be pursued rather than rote learning !

sidchhikara
March 18th, 2008, 01:12 AM
These kids are worried about their future. College and jobs.
Get the government out of education - school and college. No government regulation on syllabus, research spending. capacity etc etc. These kids will have more opportunities, choices and will be treated more humanely by the schools, colleges and parents. Where are the parents in all of this? they are also partly responsible for this.

There is cut-throat competition eveywhere - especially medical / engineering - and what do we have to show for, after all is said and done, we produce an army of drones who do a lot of repetitive computer programming for the developed world. What a shame!! Those poor kids did not need to die for it.

Oh God !! I hate our politicians, but our politicians are just a reflection of the ignorant people who vote for them.

vijay
March 18th, 2008, 02:18 AM
These kids are worried about their future. College and jobs.


Rightly said Sid, Kids must/should behave like kids only ........



Get the government out of education - school and college. No government regulation on syllabus, research spending. capacity etc etc. These kids will have more opportunities, choices and will be treated more humanely by the schools, colleges and parents. Where are the parents in all of this? they are also partly responsible for this.


The bloody govt. ( more precisely ..... the polticians ) is/are spoiling the future of India by default. I can bet that Indian kids are good to learn whatever they should/would be. Todays parents are spoiling them by having a cunning behaviour like "uska baccha mere bacche se intelligent kyon ?" but they hardly pay any attention to their kids own interests.



There is cut-throat competition eveywhere - especially medical / engineering - and what do we have to show for, after all is said and done, we produce an army of drones who do a lot of repetitive computer programming for the developed world. What a shame!! Those poor kids did not need to die for it.

Oh God !! I hate our politicians, but our politicians are just a reflection of the ignorant people who vote for them.

Cut throat competition is just becoz of this damn govt thing we have in India ........... where people are so eager to invest on education for the next generation but the govt. just want to show it's superority and off course politicians seems to fill up their Swish bank accounts only.

Now ..... i hope you can understand why i don't like Gandhi, Nehru like politician but admire a Subhash Chandra Bose.

crsnadar
March 18th, 2008, 11:12 AM
Our biggest mistake is to think of KIDS like KIDS really...

May be their behaviour be kiddish but now a days they are very much smarter than any other GENn.

Respect their SMARTNESS & try to direct their energy into some MEANINGFUL PROJECT or WORK or simply any TASK.

like
-Fill their room with lot's of amazing & knowledgeful books
-Give them sketches, colours & canvas as B'Day gifts
-Let them be the regular reader of children & students sections in newspapers
-Sports
-Try to have some time playing sports with them like Carom & Badminton etc
-Discuss about different places around the world so as to create curiosity for the same
-Discuss success stories of legends
-Never impose success as a compulsion over them, every child is different, so don't kill their talent by overexpectations........be happy & let them be happy yaar:)


&
MOST IMPORTANT

-NEVER BORE THEM WITH YOUR OWN STORIES:):):)

bye

shweta123
March 18th, 2008, 12:40 PM
Is committing suicide a one minute decision? Mostly people commit suicide at spur of a moment when they find themselves in a situation all gloomy, murky and seemingly difficult to escape. And this is the point where an urge to live bows down in front of the desire of get rid of the situations around.

Now coming to the front of education, some students feel themselves overburdened and still not able to keep pace with the peers around, they succumb to this whole episode and eventually embrace death.

Now the way out. Education is considered to be the certification of one’s ability to lead life prosperously and easily. The motive why people get after their children trying every trick to make them study is many a times a wish to make them earning-machines ! And here lies the root of the problem. There are very few parents who understand and make their children understand the real reason why education is vital!

Education is not just a tool to make one’s life comfortable, respectable and economically sound. It’s a necessity to be able to interact with newer horizons implicit in every human being, to give food to the soul, to be able to find oneself in a situation where the precincts of thinking widen making ground for enlightened vision, realizing the rationale behind many a kinds of acts and much more. Do any parents understand this? If they do, suicide is a far off thing many other problems will also be solved on their on and believe me government has nothing to do with this atleast ! ‘Approach’ that lies behind why one need to study is of foremost importance.

Education policies need to be reframed, lots have to be done to make education not a burden, but a gleeful activity. It may take time but a good parenting need not wait for that. Tell your child how study can do wonders and let them fly freely in the world of burden-free education.

:):)

sidchhikara
March 19th, 2008, 03:18 AM
Here is a collection of posts from Atanu Dey on education. All of them are eloquent and honest. Read them if you want to know about the reasons why education sucks in schools and colleges alike.

http://www.deeshaa.org/category/education/

shweta123
March 19th, 2008, 01:37 PM
Here is a collection of posts from Atanu Dey on education. All of them are eloquent and honest. Read them if you want to know about the reasons why education sucks in schools and colleges alike.

http://www.deeshaa.org/category/education/

I don’t say that education system in India is good or even satisfactory. There is a lot to be done to make education a chore worth cherishing rather than an inevitable burden.

My point was that a student should not be forced to the stage when he decides to end his life because his country lacks in proper education environment. A problem doesn’t means one has to choose such an option ! Undoubtedly, our country has a long way to go make its education system near to ideal, but till then we cant die for having deficiencies around !

Maniisha
March 19th, 2008, 05:32 PM
Is committing suicide a one minute decision? Mostly people commit suicide at spur of a moment when they find themselves in a situation all gloomy, murky and seemingly difficult to escape. And this is the point where an urge to live bows down in front of the desire of get rid of the situations around. ....

Education policies need to be reframed, lots have to be done to make education not a burden, but a gleeful activity. It may take time but a good parenting need not wait for that. Tell your child how study can do wonders and let them fly freely in the world of burden-free education.
:):)

Yes Shweta Di is right when people decide to end their lives they just forget that the phase is temporary and they will get over it. Their urge to live diminshes and they start perceiving death as the only solution to their problems. The changing social scenario where the parents love to start or end their talks boasting about their kids achievements is making more and more students to end their lives. From the time a child starts attending his school he is burdened with the load of expectations (of parents)and stress. Whereas education should be utilized to make man more cultured social being whereas now a days parents perceive it as a money minting element. I think there is a need to change the social mindset of parents. They should learn from others mistakes. They should realize that their child is precious so should not pressurize them to carry the load of their expectations...

dkumars
March 19th, 2008, 05:46 PM
Yes Shweta Di is right when people decide to end their lives they just forget that the phase is temporary and they will get over it. Their urge to live diminshes and they start perceiving death as the only solution to their problems. The changing social scenario where the parents love to start or end their talks boasting about their kids achievements is making more and more students to end their lives. From the time a child starts attending his school he is burdened with the load of expectations (of parents)and stress. Whereas education should be utilized to make man more cultured social being whereas now a days parents perceive it as a money minting element. I think there is a need to change the social mindset of parents. They should learn from others mistakes. They should realize that their child is precious so should not pressurize them to carry the load of their expectations...


Parents ko roz ek baar Taare Zameen Par dekhni chahiye.:)

sidchhikara
March 19th, 2008, 09:36 PM
Here are some hard numbers on education by Atanu Dey

The post is here.... http://www.deeshaa.org/2008/03/19/india-spends-13000000000-on-education-abroad/#more-1147

I've posted the complete text here...
India Spends $13,000,000,000 on Education Abroad

March 19th, 2008 · 2 Comments (http://www.deeshaa.org/2008/03/19/india-spends-13000000000-on-education-abroad/#comments)

That’s what a report in the Hindustan Times (http://www.hindustantimes.com/Frames.htm?pageid=http://www.htnext.in/news/5922_2107307,008700010014.htm) claims: US $13 billion each year. Figures such as these are unbelievable but I suppose someone must have done the numbers. In any case, I had estimated that number to be around $10 billion a few years ago.
Let’s pause for a moment and figure. $13 billion every year. Or in the last 10 years, about $100 billion. Imagine what you could buy for that money. How about 100 colleges with first class infrastructure with housing, classrooms, labs? Each year India could have an additional capacity for 10,000 college students and in 10 years you could have 100,000 additional capacity. Imagine the multiplier effect of that spending — in construction, in salaries to teaching and non-teaching staff. Imagine the boost to the industry from creating human capital. The imagination boggles at the sheer waste.
Imagine how much infrastructure you could build for $100 billion.
One of the principal lessons one learns as one studies economic development is that success or failure depends largely on the set of economic policies that govern the economy. India, for instance, is poor and economically a failure because its economic policies are extremely brain-dead. Of course one can explain why these brain-dead economic policies exist. We will not visit that now. Here I would only mention that the policy on education is the most brain-dead and that educational policy is largely to blame for why India is poor today, and if the policy is not changed, then it will certainly doom India in the future.

In other words, India is poor because Indian policymakers are either (1) morons who are too bloody stupid to realize that they are continuing to keep India poor and are killing any future that India may have, or (2) they are evil immoral bastards that know what they are doing to the country but do it anyway because by controlling the system they line their own pockets. Or perhaps a combination: some policymakers are of the first kind (morons), and some of the second (bastards.) In end result is the same, however.

Here’s the text of that article — for the record.
Industry body Assocham said on Monday that over $13 billion is spent every year by about 450,000 Indian students on higher education abroad.


Over 90 per cent of students appearing for the Indian Institutes of Technology (IIT) and the Indian Institute of Management (IIM) entrance examinations are rejected due to capacity constraints, of which the top 40 per cent pay to get admission abroad.


“Over 150,000 students every year go overseas for university education, which costs India a foreign exchange outflow of 10 billion dollars. This amount is sufficient to build more IIMs and IITs,” it said.


The primary reason for a large number of Indian students seeking professional education abroad is lack of capacity in Indian institutions. The trend can be reversed by opening series of quality institutes with public-private partnership by completely deregulating higher education, Assocham President Venugopal Dhoot said in a statement.


Higher education in India is subsidised as an IIT student pays an average 120 dollar monthly fee, while students opting for education in institutions in Australia, Canada, Singapore, the US and UK shell out 1,500-5,000 dollars as fees every month.


Deregulation of higher education in the country will result in creating annual revenues of 50-100 billion dollars, besides providing 10-20 million additional jobs in the field of education alone, the chamber said. India has only 27,000 foreign students, as compared to four lakh in Australia.


Assocham further said vocational education in India is a meagre five per cent of its total employed workforce of 459.10 million as against 95 per cent in South Korea, 80 per cent in Japan and 70 per cent in Germany.
Tags: Rants (Warning: May cause offense) (http://www.deeshaa.org/category/rants-warning-may-cause-offense/) · The Dismal Failure of our Education System (http://www.deeshaa.org/category/education/the-dismal-failure-of-our-education-system/) · Why is India Poor? (http://www.deeshaa.org/category/development/why-is-india-poor/)

anilsinghd
March 19th, 2008, 11:32 PM
.

“Over 150,000 students every year go overseas for university education, which costs India a foreign exchange outflow of 10 billion dollars. This amount is sufficient to build more IIMs and IITs,” it said.


Sid, it is all too easy to say that we can build more IIMs And IITs but i guess the infrastructure does not provide the education ? Or does it ?


Infact since i have been a part of the IIT system , I can tell some shocking realities , There is severe shortage of staff.

Not to be derogatory but the current recruits as profs in IITs are no where compared to the earlier ones.
In my 5 years in MAths Dept , IIT Delhi , more than 5 professors left the institute to go to either a foreign university or a company.
Thats surely not helping.

Quality is what have taken institutes like IIT and IIM to the top of the world.

Quality is what Indian students have , but the role of a good teacher/prof / system / parenting cant be denied and we are seriously failing in that.

sidchhikara
March 20th, 2008, 03:54 AM
Sid, it is all too easy to say that we can build more IIMs And IITs but i guess the infrastructure does not provide the education ? Or does it ?


Infact since i have been a part of the IIT system , I can tell some shocking realities , There is severe shortage of staff.

Not to be derogatory but the current recruits as profs in IITs are no where compared to the earlier ones.
In my 5 years in MAths Dept , IIT Delhi , more than 5 professors left the institute to go to either a foreign university or a company.
Thats surely not helping.


They are doing what any rational person would do. The reasons why they can be found in every one of those posts on education from Atanu Dey, who BTW also graduated from one of the IIT's. Here is the link...

http://www.deeshaa.org/category/education/



Quality is what have taken institutes like IIT and IIM to the top of the world.

Quality is what Indian students have , but the role of a good teacher/prof / system / parenting cant be denied and we are seriously failing in that.

IIT and IIM are not top of the world.
The students at these institutes have a lot of potential. that is why they are successful when they get better opportunities abroad. Honestly, I think it is an injustice to all these students who worked so hard to get in, once they are in they realize that there is not a whole lot going on as far research / publications / sponsored projects are concerned. Then they look West and Stanford cuts them a sweet deal. I say good for them.

anilsinghd
March 21st, 2008, 02:06 AM
IIT and IIM are not top of the world.
The students at these institutes have a lot of potential. that is why they are successful when they get better opportunities abroad. Honestly, I think it is an injustice to all these students who worked so hard to get in, once they are in they realize that there is not a whole lot going on as far research / publications / sponsored projects are concerned. Then they look West and Stanford cuts them a sweet deal. I say good for them.

Sid,

I dont buy your view that IIT and IIM are not at the top of the world, I guess even you know that i was referring to that they are among the top.

People do respect these institutions and their students.

Another point i wish to add is that it is their time spent in India which makes them bright.
To substantiate, the competition they face made them what they are.
I have always felt that in my whole education the peers performance had a big role to play.
Just to quote a fact :I would have never worked harder if i was not afraid of loosing my No.3 position :) And the hard work actually led to end up the topper of department. ( Please dont interpret i am boasting of anything here ).

I really really believe that peers have a lot of say in performance. They really do.

sidchhikara
March 21st, 2008, 02:49 AM
Sid,

I dont buy your view that IIT and IIM are not at the top of the world, I guess even you know that i was referring to that they are among the top.

People do respect these institutions and their students.

Another point i wish to add is that it is their time spent in India which makes them bright.
To substantiate, the competition they face made them what they are.
I have always felt that in my whole education the peers performance had a big role to play.
Just to quote a fact :I would have never worked harder if i was not afraid of loosing my No.3 position :) And the hard work actually led to end up the topper of department. ( Please dont interpret i am boasting of anything here ).

I really really believe that peers have a lot of say in performance. They really do.

You seem to be in agreement with me !! If you read my earlier post, you should know that I am on your side.

Since you and your friends are working so hard, maybe you should ask your student union to go ask the lazy dean to also work hard on your behalf and bring in money for research.
Wait a minute ! he is powerless because the HRD ministry has him in chokehold. Arjun Singh does'nt want to honor your hard work, he just wants to dilute it by increasing reservation quota.
Maybe you guys should protest.

That is the game that is being played with you and other people's future for votes. Enjoy. That brings my education argument full circle.

Those posts on education are really good... If you want to read them ...just follow the link.

sidchhikara
March 21st, 2008, 02:51 AM
There are no dependable rankings of world Universities.
This website makes an attempt based on web presence.

IIT Bombay comes in at 559 on world rankings and 39 in Asia.

Here's the link....

http://www.webometrics.info/top100_continent.asp?cont=asia

anilsinghd
March 21st, 2008, 05:11 PM
There are no dependable rankings of world Universities.
This website makes an attempt based on web presence.

IIT Bombay comes in at 559 on world rankings and 39 in Asia.

Here's the link....

http://www.webometrics.info/top100_continent.asp?cont=asia


Thats true , there is nt a particular ranking. on basis of technology , IITs are ranked 7th in world , but its about people as well ! And IITians and IIM guys can compete with anyone in the world i believe !!!

anilsinghd
March 21st, 2008, 05:15 PM
You seem to be in agreement with me !! If you read my earlier post, you should know that I am on your side.

Since you and your friends are working so hard, maybe you should ask your student union to go ask the lazy dean to also work hard on your behalf and bring in money for research.
Wait a minute ! he is powerless because the HRD ministry has him in chokehold. Arjun Singh does'nt want to honor your hard work, he just wants to dilute it by increasing reservation quota.
Maybe you guys should protest.

That is the game that is being played with you and other people's future for votes. Enjoy. That brings my education argument full circle.

Those posts on education are really good... If you want to read them ...just follow the link.

Hi Sid , I am not a believers in arguments , m a believer of discussions , so even if i quote u , that does not mean that i am going agaisnt you , may be i am substantiating u :)

and u r right in saying that some people like Arjun Singh are trying to dilute things , which is not gonna help i believe , it will make people who are really brilliant frustrated i guess and will lead to more people leving for other countries to satify their intellect.

WEll we did fight against these things , i took part in a rally ( sadly my fotu did not come in newspare :D lol ) !!


but even u know better than me that things in india are not about right always !!! but am an optimist ! :)

desijat
March 24th, 2008, 01:51 AM
And IITians and IIM guys can compete with anyone in the world i believe !!!

I beg to differ.... :)

Some of the worst failures that corporate world has seen in recent past come from these places.

Taking of a quote of Pepsico India's director - "''Students with merely excellent academic track-records make only excellent management trainees. They are inherently averse to risk-taking. Once they are on their own in the real world, they are extremely poor at coping. The IIM-A is producing managers today whereas they need to produce leaders for tomorrow."

Our IIMs still dont give us hands on experience in India, and that is why we see many people opting to go abroad when it comes to MBA.

ygulia
March 24th, 2008, 02:18 AM
I beg to differ.... :)

Some of the worst failures that corporate world has seen in recent past come from these places.

Taking of a quote of Pepsico India's director - "''Students with merely excellent academic track-records make only excellent management trainees. They are inherently averse to risk-taking. Once they are on their own in the real world, they are extremely poor at coping. The IIM-A is producing managers today whereas they need to produce leaders for tomorrow."

Our IIMs still dont give us hands on experience in India, and that is why we see many people opting to go abroad when it comes to MBA.

Those people go abroad only when they do not get admission in Top Indian institutes. If you think that IIMs' and IITs" are not producing good leaders then the Managers of top companies who are hiring these graduates are fool. If you do a survey then you will find that there are many CEO's of american companies in USA who are graduates from IIM and IIT. In the last I will say you should not be jealous of IITs' and IIMs'.

vijay
March 24th, 2008, 02:57 AM
I beg to differ.... :)

Some of the worst failures that corporate world has seen in recent past come from these places.

Taking of a quote of Pepsico India's director - "''Students with merely excellent academic track-records make only excellent management trainees. They are inherently averse to risk-taking. Once they are on their own in the real world, they are extremely poor at coping. The IIM-A is producing managers today whereas they need to produce leaders for tomorrow."

Our IIMs still dont give us hands on experience in India, and that is why we see many people opting to go abroad when it comes to MBA.

And where you want to differ ?

About grounded realieties or about a perfectly business statement from a business personality.

And of course i believe that you have something better in you so that you can rate our IIT'ians and IIM's.

desijat
March 24th, 2008, 04:41 PM
And where you want to differ ?

About grounded realieties or about a perfectly business statement from a business personality.

And of course i believe that you have something better in you so that you can rate our IIT'ians and IIM's.

I differ with the views put up by ANIL (Please take a little more pain read the quoted phrase to that reply)

Unfortunatly it is a business personality that runs a business and hire these proff.

Thirdly, i do not have any parameters to judge them, i go by the opinion of leaders and then apply my little management intelligence to it(as i am a b-school graduate myself, yet to go for my post grads)

desijat
March 24th, 2008, 04:46 PM
Those people go abroad only when they do not get admission in Top Indian institutes. If you think that IIMs' and IITs" are not producing good leaders then the Managers of top companies who are hiring these graduates are fool. If you do a survey then you will find that there are many CEO's of american companies in USA who are graduates from IIM and IIT. In the last I will say you should not be jealous of IITs' and IIMs'.

How funny will it sound - "Am going to HARVARD/YALE/INSEAD/MONASH etc etc just because i couldnt get through IIMs". . . .


and what makes you think that am jealous of IITs and IIMs? i dont have a B-School of myself that i would be jealous of them.

ygulia
March 24th, 2008, 05:49 PM
How funny will it sound - "Am going to HARVARD/YALE/INSEAD/MONASH etc etc just because i couldnt get through IIMs". . . .


and what makes you think that am jealous of IITs and IIMs? i dont have a B-School of myself that i would be jealous of them.

People have quit IAS/IFS to take admission in IIM. It is easy to get admission in Havard than IMM. US universities keep seats for foreign student to generate income for university because they pay three times the fee paid by local students. I would like to mention here that you guys still count on Havard which is no longer number one in US. Right now it is Kelloggs school of Management which has tie up with Hyderabad Mgt. school. I am surprised that in couple of years after doing under graduate degree you got the knowledge and competence to analyse the performance of TOP educational institutions of the country? Rest you are smart enough to understand what I want to convey.

desijat
March 24th, 2008, 06:12 PM
People have quit IAS/IFS to take admission in IIM. It is easy to get admission in Havard than IMM. US universities keep seats for foreign student to generate income for university because they pay three times the fee paid by local students. I would like to mention here that you guys still count on Havard which is no longer number one in US. Right now it is Kelloggs school of Management which has tie up with Hyderabad Mgt. school. I am surprised that in couple of years after doing under graduate degree you got the knowledge and competence to analyse the performance of TOP educational institutions of the country? Rest you are smart enough to understand what I want to convey.

Do you actually wish to check my knowledge? Well here it goes

The name that you are trying to figure out of the Hyd B School it is Indian School Of Business who not only has association with Kellogg(IT IS NOT KELLOGGS) but also many other B Schools(and mind you it is not a tie up).

I am sure you do not know about it but do a little more research on Great Lakes B School in Chennai, you will get an insight on more intl b schools in India.

By the way, List of B Schools changes with survey and genre, i am sure you would never find Kellogg number one besides marketing B Schools.

By the way, your knowledge of B schools is reflected by the spellings, must say real good.

Fore more please visit - http://www.forbes.com/careers/2007/08/16/best-business-schools-biz-07mba_cz_kb_0816bschool_land.html

Do see that Northwestern or KELLOGG is featured at no. 9 and the one's i mentioned in the post above like Yale, Harvard are above it. But this is no criterion to measure a B School as it differes with specialiazation.

anilsinghd
March 25th, 2008, 12:09 AM
I beg to differ.... :)

Some of the worst failures that corporate world has seen in recent past come from these places.

Taking of a quote of Pepsico India's director - "''Students with merely excellent academic track-records make only excellent management trainees. They are inherently averse to risk-taking. Once they are on their own in the real world, they are extremely poor at coping. The IIM-A is producing managers today whereas they need to produce leaders for tomorrow."

Our IIMs still dont give us hands on experience in India, and that is why we see many people opting to go abroad when it comes to MBA.

Vikas , your difference of opinion is greatly appreciated.

But i found a fundamental flaw in the argument of yours and please correct me if i am wrong.


Your argument line is that some of the worst failures have come from these. Without even going into the details of your argument or for its verification i can say two things:

1. I mentioned that these guys can compete with anyone in the world. And by these i was not talking about 1-2 but i was being general. So 1-2 failures cannot undermine the general statements validity. Can they ?

2. Next : By no mean u have verified that the schools u r mentioning , harvard etc have had no failures. Extremes are always there and they are important but we are governed by the average things.

And again if u have took me wrong , no way i mentioned ( or at least i dint intended to ) that they are "the" best, what i meant was they are certainly among the top brass.
:)
Hope that helps.

And am not denying that a person not from IITs , IIMS or not from HArvards etc cant reach the top ! We have lot of examples for the same i guess.

anilsinghd
March 25th, 2008, 12:11 AM
On the general discussion schema , I would appreciate Vikas that he has tried to substantiate his points through facts and testimonies where as we have seen un necessary and un required extrapolations from others ! Please refrain if possible !!!

ygulia
March 25th, 2008, 01:24 AM
Do you actually wish to check my knowledge? Well here it goes

The name that you are trying to figure out of the Hyd B School it is Indian School Of Business who not only has association with Kellogg(IT IS NOT KELLOGGS) but also many other B Schools(and mind you it is not a tie up).

I am sure you do not know about it but do a little more research on Great Lakes B School in Chennai, you will get an insight on more intl b schools in India.

By the way, List of B Schools changes with survey and genre, i am sure you would never find Kellogg number one besides marketing B Schools.

By the way, your knowledge of B schools is reflected by the spellings, must say real good.

Fore more please visit - http://www.forbes.com/careers/2007/08/16/best-business-schools-biz-07mba_cz_kb_0816bschool_land.html

Do see that Northwestern or KELLOGG is featured at no. 9 and the one's i mentioned in the post above like Yale, Harvard are above it. But this is no criterion to measure a B School as it differes with specialiazation.

So, you want to judge my Knowledge of 'B' schools through spellings. I do not want to indulge in this dirty game. If I look at things from your angle then I think that you do not even know how to write english. None of your sentences is grammatically correct. Any how, I think I am fortunate enough that I came to know about a person who is an AUTHORITY on B-Schools.
Thanks.

desijat
March 25th, 2008, 11:26 PM
[QUOTE=ygulia;164263] None of your sentences is grammatically correct. QUOTE]

:):)Thanks for letting me know:):)

vijay
March 26th, 2008, 01:24 AM
Hahahahaha ...... It's jatland :)

Here personal egoism rules and that is beyond the topic of the thread itself :)

Doesn't matter who initiate it and who take a back seat sometimes ....... war is always on :)

dkumars
March 26th, 2008, 11:43 AM
Doesn't matter who initiate it and who take a back seat sometimes ....... war is always on :)


Thats what jats are known for :)

ssindhu
March 26th, 2008, 03:10 PM
These kids are worried about their future. College and jobs.
Get the government out of education - school and college. No government regulation on syllabus, research spending. capacity etc etc. These kids will have more opportunities, choices and will be treated more humanely by the schools, colleges and parents. Where are the parents in all of this? they are also partly responsible for this.

There is cut-throat competition eveywhere - especially medical / engineering - and what do we have to show for, after all is said and done, we produce an army of drones who do a lot of repetitive computer programming for the developed world. What a shame!! Those poor kids did not need to die for it.

Oh God !! I hate our politicians, but our politicians are just a reflection of the ignorant people who vote for them.

something on the same note which i always curse is that there's a strict demarcation of streams...science, commerce, arts etc... when my dad forced me into science studies, and being a kid i coudn't rebel, though later on i did...i always used to have this fancy if i could take up literature with science...and it's nothing whimsical...i had an equal liking for some of the subjects from all three streams... i wanted to study biology + literature + economics...but there was no such provision of taking all three in one course...and i had to take a long course later on...

govt should dissolve this demarcation...and let us have more varied options...

sanjeetsparp
March 26th, 2008, 03:14 PM
Upbringing the kids...
Away from responsibilities ...
Undue attention ...
Comparision ... self friend circles / parents / teachers
Pressure from all side ...
Every one want to be super human .. who want to achieve more than his/her capacity
Stress from every side


Some of the reasons not more than that ......

reasons are many and can be discussed in detail ..... but we should focus on what is the remedy for these .. that why the children are so much stressed ... how to gie them back their childhood.....

shweta123
March 26th, 2008, 03:40 PM
Upbringing the kids...
Away from responsibilities ...
Undue attention ...
Comparision ... self friend circles / parents / teachers
Pressure from all side ...
Every one want to be super human .. who want to achieve more than his/her capacity
Stress from every side


Some of the reasons not more than that ......

reasons are many and can be discussed in detail ..... but we should focus on what is the remedy for these .. that why the children are so much stressed ... how to gie them back their childhood.....

Rightly said, I have noticed that at many a places here people just run a race to highlight the factors that are responsible for any given problem and discussion revolves around the problem and solution to that can be seen nowhere !

The very first point I made in this thread was that its ok that we, as a country have lots of problems, lots of malpractices breeding around, truck load of dirty politicians and much needs to be done to resolve those problems and it will surely take time.

But in the meanwhile, cant we try to change our attitude and not just act like foolish rebels ? Cant we atleast keep on contributing our share of goodness ? Cant we make ourselves understand that such criticizing is beneficial only if it gives us an insight into the root cause, but keep on going with criticism will not do anything for us ? If our educational set up is not good and our government is not doing much for it then embracing suicide as a solution is fine ?

In nutshell, act of committing suicide is not the result of our inefficient systems, its the result of our own inefficiency to move on with fighting spirit, its a token of our succumbing in front of adversities.

Why is it that we expect a perfect system, why dont we go forward and do efforts to make it perfect ? Its easy to fight a battle on paper but quite tough when it comes to the battlefield of practicality. We should fuss over issues and problems, but to an extent, otherwise it ends up being blowing a useless trumpet which anyone can do easily. I dont get why should a young commit suicide if his country is not the best, why cant he take a vow to give every moment of his life (which he was upto ending) to do something good for his country !

anilsinghd
March 26th, 2008, 10:41 PM
Rightly said, I have noticed that at many a places here people just run a race to highlight the factors that are responsible for any given problem and discussion revolves around the problem and solution to that can be seen nowhere !

The very first point I made in this thread was that its ok that we, as a country have lots of problems, lots of malpractices breeding around, truck load of dirty politicians and much needs to be done to resolve those problems and it will surely take time.

But in the meanwhile, cant we try to change our attitude and not just act like foolish rebels ? Cant we atleast keep on contributing our share of goodness ? Cant we make ourselves understand that such criticizing is beneficial only if it gives us an insight into the root cause, but keep on going with criticism will not do anything for us ? If our educational set up is not good and our government is not doing much for it then embracing suicide as a solution is fine ?

In nutshell, act of committing suicide is not the result of our inefficient systems, its the result of our own inefficiency to move on with fighting spirit, its a token of our succumbing in front of adversities.

Why is it that we expect a perfect system, why dont we go forward and do efforts to make it perfect ? Its easy to fight a battle on paper but quite tough when it comes to the battlefield of practicality. We should fuss over issues and problems, but to an extent, otherwise it ends up being blowing a useless trumpet which anyone can do easily. I dont get why should a young commit suicide if his country is not the best, why cant he take a vow to give every moment of his life (which he was upto ending) to do something good for his country !

Dint see anything that could have catered as a solution :confused:

A few bullet point can help !!! Please refrain from essays :p:D

sidchhikara
March 27th, 2008, 10:01 AM
something on the same note which i always curse is that there's a strict demarcation of streams...science, commerce, arts etc... when my dad forced me into science studies, and being a kid i coudn't rebel, though later on i did...i always used to have this fancy if i could take up literature with science...and it's nothing whimsical...i had an equal liking for some of the subjects from all three streams... i wanted to study biology + literature + economics...but there was no such provision of taking all three in one course...and i had to take a long course later on...

govt should dissolve this demarcation...and let us have more varied options...

Good point......... government should just leave us alone....... at all times.....on all occasions...........at all costs. Don't need them.......... they never did any good for me except cause inconvenience and abject sense of hopelessness....showed the worst face of humanity........ I absolutely detest government interference in any facet of my life.

The government is stealing the future of so many young people.... so much so that they are ready to commit suicide...... the farmers are also driven to the same fate.

Indians deserve it because we are a corrupt, apathetic society. Thats why I don't get choked up on calls for nationalism

sanjeetsparp
March 27th, 2008, 04:36 PM
Good point......... government should just leave us alone....... at all times.....on all occasions...........at all costs. Don't need them.......... they never did any good for me except cause inconvenience and abject sense of hopelessness....showed the worst face of humanity........ I absolutely detest government interference in any facet of my life.

The government is stealing the future of so many young people.... so much so that they are ready to commit suicide...... the farmers are also driven to the same fate.

Indians deserve it because we are a corrupt, apathetic society. Thats why I don't get choked up on calls for nationalism

Dear Sid ..... Govt. and Society were like this ... is like this and will be like this .... and we are the part of this system .... Its only the youth has to change the system .... and if the youths are not courragious ... and in their view the solutions is just Suicide .. then no point in changing the system for that .....The system will follow those who kicks the system and mold it their way .... the opportunities are available for every one ..... weather its job, education etc..... But its time to educate teachers and parents that .... stop treating their kid as super Boy/ Super Girl .... or face these situation ....Who elect the Govt .... and these people are no-one .... 10th pass, 12th pass, no vision ..... beaurocrats .. are like their dogs .... no policies ... so we have to be with these illiterates and we have to modify the system at our level .... atleast in the neighbourhood ......Ye Suicide ... metro cities main hi hain ... gaaoon main jehaan expectations hamesha kam rehti hain ... kisi ko koi farak nahi pedta ....So stop being too much ambicious and be in reality .. this is the line for the parents and teachers on metro cities

ygulia
March 27th, 2008, 06:52 PM
I agree with Sanjeet. If we are not satisfied with the system then we should make efforts to change it the way we want it. Efforts may not bear fruits instantaneously but in the long run it always pays.

scsheorayan
March 29th, 2008, 06:02 PM
:)Whatever posted on this thread is true but that is not the whole truth.We must ask ourselves, what is the purpose of life. What is important in life and where is society heading.
Integrity, honesty, truth and character are the basis for contentment in life. Without contentment, there can be no peace and without peace there is no happiness.
In our society there is increasing unhappiness and dissatisfaction with quality of life. Because all of a sudden we have discarded our cultural values and started chasing material possessions at all costs. It is like shadow chasing. Every one wants to get rich very very quickly because success in life is being measured by amount of possessions. Who does not want to be successful.
Take a breather and think of the moment when you were the happiest in life. Chances are that it came free of cost. Then why do we crave material possessions so much ? By no means we can survive without necessities of life. But the real problem is lack of confidence in our cultural values which forces us to reprioritise things in our life, believing that material possessions will compensate for loss of integrity.But that does not happen and individual is doomed to eternal craving and dissatisfaction in life.
When that happens to individuals, they will try to justify their actions and mostly it is claimed to be for the sake of family. We have not learnt from the example of Valmiki (believe readers know the story of turning point in Valmiki's life and creation of Ramayan). The solution is staring in the face, only if we would see it. Achieve whatever you can, but do not compromise your personal integrity. If a child fails in the exam, it is not a sin. Parents need to motivate children to pay attention in class and be a good student and ultimately good citizen. Also child must have confidence in parents that if he/she did not top the class parents will not be harsh and understand. We live in an imperfect world and no amount of blaming others, be it Govt., politicians (after all they are part of the society only) will help. The solution lies in reprioritising our own lives. Strength of character will contribute to self confidence and success in life. There is nothing to fear but the fear itself. Those who believe in this statement will certainly exude confidence and will not be slave to transitory possessions and ego. Did any one notice that over the decades people in our society are becoming more impatient and angry. These are all outward symptoms of inner fear of failure for which young students commit suicides. Every one of us can try and find time to alleviate this fear in those around us. Let us hope young lives can be saved through such efforts.

sidchhikara
March 30th, 2008, 12:37 AM
:)Whatever posted on this thread is true but that is not the whole truth.We must ask ourselves, what is the purpose of life. What is important in life and where is society heading.
Integrity, honesty, truth and character are the basis for contentment in life. Without contentment, there can be no peace and without peace there is no happiness.
In our society there is increasing unhappiness and dissatisfaction with quality of life. Because all of a sudden we have discarded our cultural values and started chasing material possessions at all costs. It is like shadow chasing. Every one wants to get rich very very quickly because success in life is being measured by amount of possessions. Who does not want to be successful.
Take a breather and think of the moment when you were the happiest in life. Chances are that it came free of cost. Then why do we crave material possessions so much ? By no means we can survive without necessities of life. But the real problem is lack of confidence in our cultural values which forces us to reprioritise things in our life, believing that material possessions will compensate for loss of integrity.But that does not happen and individual is doomed to eternal craving and dissatisfaction in life.
When that happens to individuals, they will try to justify their actions and mostly it is claimed to be for the sake of family. We have not learnt from the example of Valmiki (believe readers know the story of turning point in Valmiki's life and creation of Ramayan). The solution is staring in the face, only if we would see it. Achieve whatever you can, but do not compromise your personal integrity. If a child fails in the exam, it is not a sin. Parents need to motivate children to pay attention in class and be a good student and ultimately good citizen. Also child must have confidence in parents that if he/she did not top the class parents will not be harsh and understand. We live in an imperfect world and no amount of blaming others, be it Govt., politicians (after all they are part of the society only) will help. The solution lies in reprioritising our own lives. Strength of character will contribute to self confidence and success in life. There is nothing to fear but the fear itself. Those who believe in this statement will certainly exude confidence and will not be slave to transitory possessions and ego. Did any one notice that over the decades people in our society are becoming more impatient and angry. These are all outward symptoms of inner fear of failure for which young students commit suicides. Every one of us can try and find time to alleviate this fear in those around us. Let us hope young lives can be saved through such efforts.

Why do you think they are becoming impatient and angry? Why is the inner fear of students so great that it leads them to suicide.
This is my take on it:
People are impatient and angry because there is no fairness, there is no rule of law. You might work hard to achieve something in life and somebody with some political contacts or enough muscle will come in and take that opportunity away from you - that is just one small example, there are many more.
The students are scared because they donot have lot of choices because higher education is tightly controlled by the government. That is a fact.

It is easy to lecture but the reality is that things are in the $hitter and there is a need to speak out about it instead of being content with status quo. When ehough people make enough noise - change is possible. Case in point: Jessica Lall murder case.

Sir, what culture are you talking about?? culture of corruption? I hope it erodes really fast.

ygulia
March 30th, 2008, 06:06 AM
Fight with system, make you way through hard work. To surrender to the system, you do not like, is the job of coward. Do you think that all those persons, who get the job, are taking help of politician or money?
Life is what you want, rest depends on your hard work only. People are finding excuses to justify their wrong doing.

anilsinghd
March 31st, 2008, 04:15 AM
Why do you think they are becoming impatient and angry? Why is the inner fear of students so great that it leads them to suicide.
This is my take on it:
People are impatient and angry because there is no fairness, there is no rule of law. You might work hard to achieve something in life and somebody with some political contacts or enough muscle will come in and take that opportunity away from you - that is just one small example, there are many more.
The students are scared because they donot have lot of choices because higher education is tightly controlled by the government. That is a fact.

It is easy to lecture but the reality is that things are in the $hitter and there is a need to speak out about it instead of being content with status quo. When ehough people make enough noise - change is possible. Case in point: Jessica Lall murder case.

Sir, what culture are you talking about?? culture of corruption? I hope it erodes really fast.

We share an exact synergy on the lines that we chose to coment on
.these were the very lines i wanted to comment on before reading ur post.

But i beg to differ from u on this.

ur saying that now political contacts etc take away things also happened in the past with the rules of rajas etc in place. so its not a new development.

regarding choices i guess people never had enough choices and to me infact now a days we have more choices than anywhere we had in our history.

so that also does not help in saying that the situations have changed a lot from the ancient past.

what then are the answers to the questions u asked in this post of yours ?
i have no ideas , i am still finding out.:)

satishsparp
April 5th, 2008, 01:51 PM
In my view there is huge gap between economic development and social development. Economic development forces everybody to perform in competition with others. Now a days this is the only visible part of life and in the process society doesn’t realize the social development at par with economic development. Therefore be it child or adult, everybody is under tremendous pressure. Socially society is not mature enough to absorb the economical development. Therefore these types of problems occur.

sanjeetsparp
April 5th, 2008, 08:48 PM
In my view there is huge gap between economic development and social development. Economic development forces everybody to perform in competition with others. Now a days this is the only visible part of life and in the process society doesn’t realize the social development at par with economic development. Therefore be it child or adult, everybody is under tremendous pressure. Socially society is not mature enough to absorb the economical development. Therefore these types of problems occur.

Aaayiye jenaab aayiye ....... good first post...... truely in the thinking terms a planner ......
Sure the angle people seeing life in a view of economic terms and the social angle gone somewhere .... now education means ... good job and Great Salary ... and the main purpose of Education has been vanished.....

anilsinghd
April 6th, 2008, 07:25 PM
Aaayiye jenaab aayiye ....... good first post...... truely in the thinking terms a planner ......
Sure the angle people seeing life in a view of economic terms and the social angle gone somewhere .... now education means ... good job and Great Salary ... and the main purpose of Education has been vanished.....

Hi Sanjeet : Although its very difficult to argue but its not education which teaches that education is about good salary and great job !
Its more to do with the mental makeup of a person.