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ranjitjat
May 10th, 2008, 04:56 PM
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2008/20080510/main2.htm

Honour Killing
Family strangles daughter, lover in Haryana


Balla (Karnal), May 9
In yet another incident of honour killing in Haryana, a Jat family allegedly strangled its daughter, who was pregnant, and a local youth from the same community to death early this morning.

Later, the girl’s family kept the bodies outside their house as a “befitting lesson” for others.

What was more disturbing was that the family and villagers “supported” the act as “a measure to defeat the act of immorality” committed by Sunita and Jasbir, the lovers who were killed.

When The Tribune team reached the village this morning, located about 40 km from Karnal, an uneasy calm prevailed there. On seeing mediapersons in the village, villagers and family members started cursing the couple for causing “embarrassment” to them.

The police said for the past six months both had taken shelter at the residence of Jasbir’s sister Neelam in Machhroli village near Panipat.

She alleged that yesterday a group of 30-35 persons reached her residence and took the couple in separate vehicles. “The couple promised not to enter the village, but their pleas went unheard,” rued the sobbing sister.

Sources claimed that the girl’s family informed the police about the gory incident and none of them tried to escape from the village.

Sunita (23) had separated from her husband about a couple of years ago and was staying with her lover Jasbir (26), a taxi driver.

A panchayat member said the girl’s family was hurt after they learnt about Sunita’s pregnancy.

The sources said due to her love affair, Sunita’s marital status was “annulled” by village elders. Previously she was sent twice to her relatives’ place, but the couple managed to flee to stay together.

Karnal district police chief A.S. Chawla confirmed that the girl’s family was involved in this heinous crime. “A case of murder and attempt to destroy evidence has been registered against 29 persons and a few have been rounded up for interrogation,” he said.

ranjitjat
May 10th, 2008, 05:01 PM
This is not the frist or last honour killing.
This is common now. LOVE GAME
What is the way out ?
GAON KI GOAN MAE
GOTT KI GOTRA MAE
CHUP KAR LOVE DARMA KA YAHI HAL HOGA.
HAVE WE LEARN ANY LESSON OR WAY FORWARD ?

jatriski99
May 10th, 2008, 06:47 PM
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2008/20080510/main2.htm

Honour Killing
Family strangles daughter, lover in Haryana


Balla (Karnal), May 9
In yet another incident of honour killing in Haryana, a Jat family allegedly strangled its daughter, who was pregnant, and a local youth from the same community to death early this morning.

Later, the girl’s family kept the bodies outside their house as a “befitting lesson” for others.


What was more disturbing was that the family and villagers “supported” the act as “a measure to defeat the act of immorality” committed by Sunita and Jasbir, the lovers who were killed.

When The Tribune team reached the village this morning, located about 40 km from Karnal, an uneasy calm prevailed there. On seeing mediapersons in the village, villagers and family members started cursing the couple for causing “embarrassment” to them.

The police said for the past six months both had taken shelter at the residence of Jasbir’s sister Neelam in Machhroli village near Panipat.

She alleged that yesterday a group of 30-35 persons reached her residence and took the couple in separate vehicles. “The couple promised not to enter the village, but their pleas went unheard,” rued the sobbing sister.

Sources claimed that the girl’s family informed the police about the gory incident and none of them tried to escape from the village.

Sunita (23) had separated from her husband about a couple of years ago and was staying with her lover Jasbir (26), a taxi driver.

A panchayat member said the girl’s family was hurt after they learnt about Sunita’s pregnancy.

The sources said due to her love affair, Sunita’s marital status was “annulled” by village elders. Previously she was sent twice to her relatives’ place, but the couple managed to flee to stay together.

Karnal district police chief A.S. Chawla confirmed that the girl’s family was involved in this heinous crime. “A case of murder and attempt to destroy evidence has been registered against 29 persons and a few have been rounded up for interrogation,” he said.


well this is a serious problem,but one thing i will say that family honour is primarily above love n all, i don't understand when people know that their family won't allow them to get marry then why they get involved themselves in such kind of relationship. I can't figureout why girls go against their parents wish.
want to say--------- 'jo apne maa baap ke sage nahi hote vo apas me kya nibhayenge' . love means to sacrifice 4 others........n one more thing we must respect 'rishtey' getting eloped with lover is not a solution it's a poblem ........ u can't runaway from those who has brought u in this world,
tookcare.....
love is blind n all is 'bakwas'......
but killing the so called lovers is also not appreciable, u can't kill someone just becoz they got married against yr wish.......

ygulia
May 10th, 2008, 07:06 PM
The acts of boy and girl are not acceptable in the society. The parents, relatives and other associated with them have committed this henious crime and they should be punished under the law. Society has other ways of punishing these people.
The act of the people who commited this crime is more deplorable than that of the couple.

cooljat
May 10th, 2008, 10:31 PM
I second ur thoughts Gulia bro...


The acts of boy and girl are not acceptable in the society. The parents, relatives and other associated with them have committed this henious crime and they should be punished under thw law. Society has other ways of punishing these people.
The act of the people who commited this crime is more deplorable than that of the couple.

misguidedyouth
May 10th, 2008, 11:22 PM
two wrongs can not make a right

navingulia
May 11th, 2008, 03:13 PM
i pity the parents, wish they had known better.
the couple were staying where they were getting love. it is very obvious that they wouldnt have got that love from such parents
parents giving birth is a law of nature but that shouldnot take away from the child a right to lead his own life.
if parents think that by giving birth they have recieved the right to decide everything for their child from his studies, his sports, his career, his partner and how many kids he should have, then it is pathetic to say the least. they dont love their children, they only love themselves and their own decisions.

killing their own child and displaying her body in the street?????? God!

if the girl had been put forcibly into a rude and abusive marriage, who is the society to not give her a right to live with the only person who really loves her to hell with such a mean society

i used to say bad about taliban but what right do i have to say a word about them, my own 'so called society' did it

if a couple love each other, why dont they have the basic right of nature to live with each other(even animal societies provide that right. just to satisfy the false egoes of the parents and the society?

"jo ma baap apne bachchon ke nahin hue, aur jinhon ne apne janm diye bachche ko maar kar display par rakh diya, wo society ke khaak hoenge"

ratheetheraist
May 11th, 2008, 10:17 PM
no questions regarding wt all hapened has brought our progressive thoughts to dust..the poor couple has been given death for their attempt to live a better life..they were killed for all reasons we know..!!

bt i have smthng more to add on to it..!!

a woman tried to live as per her wish with a person whom she liked n loved aftr her separation frm her husband..the gloom which was surrounding al over her life by tht separation incidence seemed to gt over n a ray f light in her lite came in form f tht taxi driver..bt our society nd even her parents were nt able to see thm hapy nd the society`s talks must hav made it miserable for her parents nd they were forced to act so violently, miserbly, brutlly n wt nt..the dream f a already ignored nd sarcasticaly neglectd woman comes to a tragic end..!!

now the question arises if the same wud hav been done by the son f the same family(livin wth ny woman aftr his broken marriage) wud they hav taken the same step...????

i thnk th obvious ans is No..!! instead they wud hav got his son married even bfore nd the situation wudnt hav arose in frnt f him..how hypocrate wl we be..??

rising India shining India...talking abt presenting n passing the women`s bill in the parliament nd a small wish f a woman is crushed in her own family..!!

how can we justify..!! lotsa minds to b changed lotsa minds to b taught..the issue is much bigger than it seems..nd the struggle, even more..!!

dkumars
May 11th, 2008, 11:29 PM
i pity the parents, wish they had known better.
the couple were staying where they were getting love. it is very obvious that they wouldnt have got that love from such parents
parents giving birth is a law of nature but that shouldnot take away from the child a right to lead his own life.
if parents think that by giving birth they have recieved the right to decide everything for their child from his studies, his sports, his career, his partner and how many kids he should have, then it is pathetic to say the least. they dont love their children, they only love themselves and their own decisions.

killing their own child and displaying her body in the street?????? God!

if the girl had been put forcibly into a rude and abusive marriage, who is the society to not give her a right to live with the only person who really loves her to hell with such a mean society

i used to say bad about taliban but what right do i have to say a word about them, my own 'so called society' did it

if a couple love each other, why dont they have the basic right of nature to live with each other(even animal societies provide that right. just to satisfy the false egoes of the parents and the society?

"jo ma baap apne bachchon ke nahin hue, aur jinhon ne apne janm diye bachche ko maar kar display par rakh diya, wo society ke khaak hoenge"


Very right ... my thoughts word by word

Samarkadian
May 12th, 2008, 04:14 AM
Honour killing, sounds royal(Pardon me). Where honour has been put? Is it just related with marriage or life? Intriguing.We will keep on proving that materialsticaly we have improved but as a side effect have developed acute insensitivity in terms of humanity.Whats the solution of this big confusion?
or getting back to the cosy world of 'I'. ?

It gave me pain thinking Love is not an universal feeling but surely hatred is(its much easier,always unconditional and proved so often) and its prevailing more and more everywhere.So the whole concept of society is neither moral nor anti moral.Society is merely non-moral. Interestingly, it will degrade more as there are no apt challanges in the society(our own community as well) to move upward rather than load of distractions increasing day by day.

naveenbazad
May 12th, 2008, 06:47 AM
killing by girls parents is the problem of not only that parent but of the whole of our community ... this is my personal opinion ...

i may be harsh here that we ppl r very adamant .... our parents have this attiude of proving that they r right in every sense ...

i think the role of parents come in when before marriage in trying to give suggestion what is right for them .. but even after their suggestion the girl marries then they never support it ... its adamancy of the parents attitude .. they never support their daughter ... this is problem with parents ....
according to me parents give suggestion .. daughter feels right then she take it .. if she doesnt then parents shd respect her decision and support her and make her life happy with that person ...

so attitude of each and every one shd be changed in that way .. i feel so ....

each person has ability to excel .. what is needed is the love among each other ...

what if parents chosen the guy and the guy is not right ....

so in all when marriage has hapepned then no one shd interfere in it .. make the life happy and not the hell for any one ....
even if u r parents .. brother .. sister or neighboutr or any ...

jatriski99
May 12th, 2008, 10:06 AM
I would say girl took a wrong decision instead of living with the taxi driver she must have given a seriuos thought about her 'identity crisis'. she must have left her parents n husband forever n worked hard to be independent.

vo to ek hell se nikalkar dusre hell me chali gayi............I don't understand the whole concept of getting married, are we girls only for marrige n kids? i mean girls must refuse to except this . she wasn't financially n socially strong that's why she became a victim, if she had been that strong i think her life would have been on otherway.. ..i will strongly say education is important 4 girls not marriage or the so called 'love'.
one more thing 4 parents............
aaj bhi ladki tumhare upar bhoj hai, ek dar hai,tumhari taakat nahi kamjori hai........I have seen in my village mere saath ki sari ladkiyon ki haalat.......unhe kahin bhi kuch nahi mila na apne ghar mein na sasural mein........dono jagah unhone sirf gobar utahaya aur bhans ko nilaya........they don't know abt es gaon aur ghar ke bhar bhi ek duniya hai.....aur gaon ke bujurg bhaut proud feel karte hain unpar......crap........
4 grls............
hamari pheli priority honi chahiye.......to be financially n socially strong.....rest baad mein. aft all this is ur life hemare har faisle hamari life ko nayi disha dikhate hain........if yr parents refuse to allow u from getting married to yr whatever..........i think it's better don't get married 4 whole life.......

prashantacmet
May 12th, 2008, 11:38 AM
well this is a serious problem,but one thing i will say that family honour is primarily above love n all, i don't understand when people know that their family won't allow them to get marry then why they get involved themselves in such kind of relationship. I can't figureout why girls go against their parents wish.
want to say--------- 'jo apne maa baap ke sage nahi hote vo apas me kya nibhayenge' . love means to sacrifice 4 others........n one more thing we must respect 'rishtey' getting eloped with lover is not a solution it's a poblem ........ u can't runaway from those who has brought u in this world,
tookcare.....
love is blind n all is 'bakwas'......
but killing the so called lovers is also not appreciable, u can't kill someone just becoz they got married against yr wish.......

kyounki dil pe kisi ka jor nahi chalta..... madam ji:cool::cool:

prashantacmet
May 12th, 2008, 11:41 AM
i pity the parents, wish they had known better.
the couple were staying where they were getting love. it is very obvious that they wouldnt have got that love from such parents
parents giving birth is a law of nature but that shouldnot take away from the child a right to lead his own life.
if parents think that by giving birth they have recieved the right to decide everything for their child from his studies, his sports, his career, his partner and how many kids he should have, then it is pathetic to say the least. they dont love their children, they only love themselves and their own decisions.

killing their own child and displaying her body in the street?????? God!

if the girl had been put forcibly into a rude and abusive marriage, who is the society to not give her a right to live with the only person who really loves her to hell with such a mean society

i used to say bad about taliban but what right do i have to say a word about them, my own 'so called society' did it

if a couple love each other, why dont they have the basic right of nature to live with each other(even animal societies provide that right. just to satisfy the false egoes of the parents and the society?

"jo ma baap apne bachchon ke nahin hue, aur jinhon ne apne janm diye bachche ko maar kar display par rakh diya, wo society ke khaak hoenge"

THEEK KAHI AAPNE

prashantacmet
May 12th, 2008, 11:44 AM
no questions regarding wt all hapened has brought our progressive thoughts to dust..the poor couple has been given death for their attempt to live a better life..they were killed for all reasons we know..!!

bt i have smthng more to add on to it..!!

a woman tried to live as per her wish with a person whom she liked n loved aftr her separation frm her husband..the gloom which was surrounding al over her life by tht separation incidence seemed to gt over n a ray f light in her lite came in form f tht taxi driver..bt our society nd even her parents were nt able to see thm hapy nd the society`s talks must hav made it miserable for her parents nd they were forced to act so violently, miserbly, brutlly n wt nt..the dream f a already ignored nd sarcasticaly neglectd woman comes to a tragic end..!!

now the question arises if the same wud hav been done by the son f the same family(livin wth ny woman aftr his broken marriage) wud they hav taken the same step...????

i thnk th obvious ans is No..!! instead they wud hav got his son married even bfore nd the situation wudnt hav arose in frnt f him..how hypocrate wl we be..??

rising India shining India...talking abt presenting n passing the women`s bill in the parliament nd a small wish f a woman is crushed in her own family..!!

how can we justify..!! lotsa minds to b changed lotsa minds to b taught..the issue is much bigger than it seems..nd the struggle, even more..!!




AAPNE BHI THEEK KAHI

prashantacmet
May 12th, 2008, 11:49 AM
I would say girl took a wrong decision instead of living with the taxi driver she must have given a seriuos thought about her 'identity crisis'. she must have left her parents n husband forever n worked hard to be independent.

vo to ek hell se nikalkar dusre hell me chali gayi............I don't understand the whole concept of getting married, are we girls only for marrige n kids? i mean girls must refuse to except this . she wasn't financially n socially strong that's why she became a victim, if she had been that strong i think her life would have been on otherway.. ..i will strongly say education is important 4 girls not marriage or the so called 'love'.
one more thing 4 parents............
aaj bhi ladki tumhare upar bhoj hai, ek dar hai,tumhari taakat nahi kamjori hai........I have seen in my village mere saath ki sari ladkiyon ki haalat.......unhe kahin bhi kuch nahi mila na apne ghar mein na sasural mein........dono jagah unhone sirf gobar utahaya aur bhans ko nilaya........they don't know abt es gaon aur ghar ke bhar bhi ek duniya hai.....aur gaon ke bujurg bhaut proud feel karte hain unpar......crap........
4 grls............
hamari pheli priority honi chahiye.......to be financially n socially strong.....rest baad mein. aft all this is ur life hemare har faisle hamari life ko nayi disha dikhate hain........if yr parents refuse to allow u from getting married to yr whatever..........i think it's better don't get married 4 whole life.......

sabhi log aap jaisse "strong" nahi hotte madam ji..."identity" comes after survival......

brahmtewatia
May 12th, 2008, 11:50 AM
"To err is human, to forgive is Divine"
a JAT would interpret it as...
"To err is human, to forgive is not my policy"

For sure nobody would accept the acts of the boy and girl in our society. At the same time nobody would even accept the heinous crime of their killings. Remember, no one is above the law.

skarmveer
May 12th, 2008, 11:50 AM
In my thought Parents are not that at fault if compare with that girl.

Agar hamara paida kiya hua bacchcha hamarey hee vishwas ka katal kar raha hai to hum or kya karengay. isay saport karna bhee galat hai keukee yea eak beemari hai jitna suport kiya jaygee utnee he badhege.

Jo bachhey apney ma-baap ko keese anjaan key liyea chhod saktey hai wo kesee ke nahi ho saktey or isseliyea sabsay jayada ladai love couples mein hoti hai.

These all are my thoughts.

sanjeetsparp
May 12th, 2008, 02:26 PM
I don’t know weather the society is for the people or people are for society. If we see it in terms of Humanitarian angle then to kill the two people who were happy with each other is a heinous crime what there 29 people have done for the sake of pride. I am not saying that the couple was right at all they should have a respect for the laws, rules and rituals of the society, which they have not kept in mind but by killing both of them has sorted out the matter. I my view killing of any person is a heinous crime. They could have barred them entering in to the village, is necessary to kill those or to show the society the false pride. I am not defending their crime, which couple has done, but just tell me how many ladies and gents in a village have illicit relationship in their society in a particular house, in a particular “Panna” or “Thaula” , in a village, right from the school to the elderly people if you will ask somebody in personal or by encouraging they will tell you either their’s or of someone else illicit relation and tell you with a great interest, in the society. They are safe because their crimes are hidden under the cover.
But in my view the couple had done a serious crime and the society has done more serious crime than the couple. Don’t know weather the society is for the people or people are for the society.

ratheetheraist
May 12th, 2008, 02:26 PM
I would say girl took a wrong decision instead of living with the taxi driver she must have given a seriuos thought about her 'identity crisis'. she must have left her parents n husband forever n worked hard to be independent.

vo to ek hell se nikalkar dusre hell me chali gayi............I don't understand the whole concept of getting married, are we girls only for marrige n kids? i mean girls must refuse to except this . she wasn't financially n socially strong that's why she became a victim, if she had been that strong i think her life would have been on otherway.. ..i will strongly say education is important 4 girls not marriage or the so called 'love'.
one more thing 4 parents............
aaj bhi ladki tumhare upar bhoj hai, ek dar hai,tumhari taakat nahi kamjori hai........I have seen in my village mere saath ki sari ladkiyon ki haalat.......unhe kahin bhi kuch nahi mila na apne ghar mein na sasural mein........dono jagah unhone sirf gobar utahaya aur bhans ko nilaya........they don't know abt es gaon aur ghar ke bhar bhi ek duniya hai.....aur gaon ke bujurg bhaut proud feel karte hain unpar......crap........
4 grls............
hamari pheli priority honi chahiye.......to be financially n socially strong.....rest baad mein. aft all this is ur life hemare har faisle hamari life ko nayi disha dikhate hain........if yr parents refuse to allow u from getting married to yr whatever..........i think it's better don't get married 4 whole life.......

paragya ji kaafikuch achi baatein kahi..grls r nt at all 4 marriages n machines to produce children..all ths luv pyar mohabbat crap hai theek hai..bt we cant justify it like tht..if the grl was left over by her husband then do u want her to follow those old rituals f livin in isolation for whole f her life nd accept it as it comes..sab khush rehtey agar woh ghar mey akeli apni khushi ko maar kar rehti..or ussi ladki ney taxi driver k sath kya khushi dhoondh li saarey smaaj ki aankh mey chubh gai..or maar diya gaya usko..good justifications..!!

thn ur last lines dosnt do justice to the topic.. if parents dosnt allow to marry a grl accrding to her wish..thn y shall she stay quiet or acept it like tht only..we shud lite the tourch in th minds f parents nd tell thm tht the grls r nt mere objects bt living citizens with equal rights n they hav the right to choose..although the graph is goin down bt still there is need to enlighten some poor n hypocryte souls..!!

samay tezzii sey badal raha hai...humko bhi ussi tarah badalna hoga...warna kaafi kuch sehna padega..!!

R2delhi
May 12th, 2008, 03:18 PM
Agrees 100% with you pragya. Most importantly how many of us can afford and tolerate this activity from our family members (specially girls) which will lead us to big time social shame. Secondly, it's the easiest job available on earth to criticise others but when it came to us (may god will save us from these stuff in our life) i am sure none of us can restrict himself doing anything less than this. Though, no support for the parants also. After all we are human beings and we should act like what the god has made us.

R2Delhi


well this is a serious problem,but one thing i will say that family honour is primarily above love n all, i don't understand when people know that their family won't allow them to get marry then why they get involved themselves in such kind of relationship. I can't figureout why girls go against their parents wish.
want to say--------- 'jo apne maa baap ke sage nahi hote vo apas me kya nibhayenge' . love means to sacrifice 4 others........n one more thing we must respect 'rishtey' getting eloped with lover is not a solution it's a poblem ........ u can't runaway from those who has brought u in this world,
tookcare.....
love is blind n all is 'bakwas'......
but killing the so called lovers is also not appreciable, u can't kill someone just becoz they got married against yr wish.......

jatriski99
May 12th, 2008, 03:59 PM
kyounki dil pe kisi ka jor nahi chalta..... madam ji:cool::cool:

ye kitabi bateen hai.................be practical........

jagmohan
May 12th, 2008, 04:30 PM
Dear All,

A very sad incident indeed and unfortunately not the last one, as these things will happen again. As people become more and more educated and aware, especially the girl child, there are bound to be questions raised against traditions and customs. The older generation will do what they think as right and the newly educated and liberated young minds will question them. This is a fact of the matter and there is no way out as no one is willing to acknowledge that there is a problem that exists in the villages. In cities no one has the time to notice such things but in the villages people have lot of time for ‘noticing’, in fact many do nothing but do only this.

Is this ‘so called honor killing’ justified? No. Should concerned persons be punished? Yes, as quickly as possible. Was it right for the young couple to do what they did? The mind says, what they did was no crime, but the heart says otherwise. And it is this dilemma that will face our community (and all others who have this gotra system) in times to come. There is a very old and apt saying about brotherhood and ‘Bhaichara’ and it goes like this: “Bhai sabse pehle Gaam Ka, pher Got ka, pher Gavhand ka, pher Jaat (caste) ka, pher Paat ka, pher Desh ka aur pher Bhesh ka” (This has been mentioned by another worthy member in another post).

Now the question is: What to do? There is no way our community and its members, educated or otherwise, would accept girls and boys from the same village get into a situation where they either elope or get married. They may have been affairs between girls and boys in the villages, but our community would not accept these things openly. I don’t foresee marriages taking place in the same gotra in the next 1000 years. I may be wrong but I have had a little experience of living in a village and have tried to understand the mindset of those who live there, some of them even very educated ones.

The role of a woman or mother who remains a key factor in deciding the future of the girl child needs to be seriously looked into. As long as women are treated the way they are in the villages, nothing will improve. It is necessary for the womenfolk to come out of this vicious circle of ‘wanting to have a male child’ and thinking of a male child as one who would be a harbinger of prosperity. For that to happen, girls must be allowed to own ancestral property including land. The whole outlook of the community needs an overhaul. I know it is easier said than done but then there is no other way.

As for the departed souls, may God rest their souls in peace.

Regards,

JS Malik

jatriski99
May 12th, 2008, 04:46 PM
paragya ji kaafikuch achi baatein kahi..grls r nt at all 4 marriages n machines to produce children..all ths luv pyar mohabbat crap hai theek hai..bt we cant justify it like tht..if the grl was left over by her husband then do u want her to follow those old rituals f livin in isolation for whole f her life nd accept it as it comes..sab khush rehtey agar woh ghar mey akeli apni khushi ko maar kar rehti..or ussi ladki ney taxi driver k sath kya khushi dhoondh li saarey smaaj ki aankh mey chubh gai..or maar diya gaya usko..good justifications..!!

thn ur last lines dosnt do justice to the topic.. if parents dosnt allow to marry a grl accrding to her wish..thn y shall she stay quiet or acept it like tht only..we shud lite the tourch in th minds f parents nd tell thm tht the grls r nt mere objects bt living citizens with equal rights n they hav the right to choose..although the graph is goin down bt still there is need to enlighten some poor n hypocryte souls..!!

samay tezzii sey badal raha hai...humko bhi ussi tarah badalna hoga...warna kaafi kuch sehna padega..!!

see agar hum es tarah ki ghatnaon ke piche karan jane to samagh ayega ki jo hamara samajik system hai usme bahut khamiyan hai, pheli baat gaon mein ladki ko sirf ghar ki chaar diwari tak rakha jata hai, uski sooch develop nahi ho pati, vo ache bure mein antar nahi kar sakti......
es case mein ........ab jab shaadi ke baad uska talak ho gaya aur vo apne parents ke ghar mein hain to jhahir si baat hai uski 'manstithi' ko samajna parents ka kaam hai aur uski zindagi ko ek disha dikhana unka farz hai taki uske paas jine ki koi vajah bacche, nahi to vo bhatak jayegi jo yahan par hua.
dusri baat hum apna dayara apne parivaar tak hi bana kar rakhte hai, kyon nahi samaj ke liye acche kaam kare taki humen ek disha milegi aur tabhi to samaj mein chetna phelegi. kya koi parent apne bacchon se kahata hai ki tum samaj ke liye jiyo .........nahi .........sab apne liye jeete hai..........tabhi to burai samaj mein phel rahi hai, apradh badh rahe hai.......bhai bhai ko maar raha hai, baap beti ka rape kar raha hai.........aaj samaj ko acche logon ki jarurat hai....hum sab bhatke hue hain.......

is mamle mein gaon vale khete hain ki humne jo kiya accha kiya kyon ki ladka ladki ek 'gotra' ke the to bhai bhen hue.......... now the question arises n tell me how many of you favour marriage in the same 'gotra'? justify it........
one of my best frnd a jat grl from rhotak left her boyfriend 4 her parents just becoz boy's grandmother n her grandmother were of the same gotra........she went through the pain....but then she left him.......
my frnd from punjab a jat boy left his grndfriend 4 her mother becoz they were from the same village..........can't marry.........he went thruogh the pain..........I respect them.......that's love...........first understand it........there's a wall between love n lust...........

navingulia
May 12th, 2008, 04:49 PM
1. ek pakshi ka bachcha bada hokar apna ghonsla alag banata hai, use apni udaan aazad bharne ka adhikar hota hai. uke maa baap use janam dene me apni mahaanta nahin dikhaate hain.
2. ek pashu samaj bhi apne bachchon ko apna jeevansaathi chun ne ka adhikar deta hai. unka paalan poshan karne ka ahsaan nahin jatata. 'parent' to har koi ban sakta hai, kintu sirf 'parent' hona unhe mahaan nahin bana sakta.
3. Itihaas bhi jab is kisse ko yaad karega to thookega hamare samaj pe. (aaj koi siri, farhaad ya laila majnu pe nahin thookta, sab us samaj pe thookte hain jisne unhe milne nahin diya.
4. mata, pita janam dete hain aur bachcha us jeevan ko jeeta hai ye prakriti ka niyam hai. us niyam ko mat todo. Apni jhooti aan, false ego, false pride, jealous possessiveness ki bali mat chadhaao bachchon ko. Bachchon ko aisi haalat me mat laa ke khada karo ki wo bol paden "aapne hame janam hi kyuun diya???"

pothi padh padh jag muan, pandit bhaya na koy, dhaai aakhar prem ka padhe so pandit hoe.

====
Quran me, Geeta me, Bible me kahin likha hai aisa?? Ramayan me, mahabharat me kahin hai udaharan ki koi ladki apne premi ke saath rahne lagi to use waapas laake uske maa, baap aur bhaaiyon ne maar diya?

us beti ne to us gaam ka ya maa baap ka naam nahin duboya tha kintu us gaam ke badon ne aisa dhabba lagaya hai maanavta pe, itihas bhi yaad karega

=======
Radha ne krishna se prem kiya tha vivah nahin, kintu samaj aaj bhi radhe shyam bolta hai (krishnas wife was rukmini)

andhe ko deekhe nahin, kya us se ho bair,
aankh munde jag pada, kaun manaae khair

======
is jag ki samasya wair hai, prem nahin

bus ab aur nahin likhunga is thread pe. jisnai apne baalak maarne ho, maar liyo bhai

navingulia
May 12th, 2008, 05:00 PM
Respected Jagmohan Sir,
You are one generation senior to me. It is a treat and inspiration to see how nicely you think and speak.
Thanks



Dear All,

A very sad incident indeed and unfortunately not the last one, as these things will happen again. As people become more and more educated and aware, especially the girl child, there are bound to be questions raised against traditions and customs. The older generation will do what they think as right and the newly educated and liberated young minds will question them. This is a fact of the matter and there is no way out as no one is willing to acknowledge that there is a problem that exists in the villages. In cities no one has the time to notice such things but in the villages people have lot of time for ‘noticing’, in fact many do nothing but do only this.

Is this ‘so called honor killing’ justified? No. Should concerned persons be punished? Yes, as quickly as possible. Was it right for the young couple to do what they did? The mind says, what they did was no crime, but the heart says otherwise. And it is this dilemma that will face our community (and all others who have this gotra system) in times to come. There is a very old and apt saying about brotherhood and ‘Bhaichara’ and it goes like this: “Bhai sabse pehle Gaam Ka, pher Got ka, pher Gavhand ka, pher Jaat (caste) ka, pher Paat ka, pher Desh ka aur pher Bhesh ka” (This has been mentioned by another worthy member in another post).

Now the question is: What to do? There is no way our community and its members, educated or otherwise, would accept girls and boys from the same village get into a situation where they either elope or get married. They may have been affairs between girls and boys in the villages, but our community would not accept these things openly. I don’t foresee marriages taking place in the same gotra in the next 1000 years. I may be wrong but I have had a little experience of living in a village and have tried to understand the mindset of those who live there, some of them even very educated ones.

The role of a woman or mother who remains a key factor in deciding the future of the girl child needs to be seriously looked into. As long as women are treated the way they are in the villages, nothing will improve. It is necessary for the womenfolk to come out of this vicious circle of ‘wanting to have a male child’ and thinking of a male child as one who would be a harbinger of prosperity. For that to happen, girls must be allowed to own ancestral property including land. The whole outlook of the community needs an overhaul. I know it is easier said than done but then there is no other way.

As for the departed souls, may God rest their souls in peace.

Regards,

JS Malik

ygulia
May 12th, 2008, 06:26 PM
well this is a serious problem,but one thing i will say that family honour is primarily above love n all, i don't understand when people know that their family won't allow them to get marry then why they get involved themselves in such kind of relationship. I can't figureout why girls go against their parents wish.
want to say--------- 'jo apne maa baap ke sage nahi hote vo apas me kya nibhayenge' . love means to sacrifice 4 others........n one more thing we must respect 'rishtey' getting eloped with lover is not a solution it's a poblem ........ u can't runaway from those who has brought u in this world,
tookcare.....
love is blind n all is 'bakwas'......
but killing the so called lovers is also not appreciable, u can't kill someone just becoz they got married against yr wish.......

It is not clear what you want to say.
On one hand you justify the parents and on other hand you do not justify killings. It will be better if you write your thoughts clearly.
I will say kids should be above social pride of parents. Things are clear; parents could not handle the situation and committed this heinous crime in the name of social pride. There were still lots of solutions with parents to deal with this problem. Parents are not fulfilling their responsibility in this modern world. They think that they have to provide only financial support. They never sit down with their kids, discuss their problems and behave with them like friends. Had they done like this, they would not have been in the present situation. In the nut shell, I would like to say that 100% fault lies with the parents and the villagers, who instigated them in the name of so called social pride, are equally responsible for these killings.

spdeshwal
May 13th, 2008, 08:44 AM
एक सफ़ेद चादर का निर्माण आपने हाथो से किया !
इस मी तुम्हारा सारा अस्तित्व सिमट आया !
फ़िर एक दीन पता चला वो चादर मैली हो गई !
आप अपनी चादर पर लगे धब्बे से कुपित हो कर उसे नष्ट कर देते हैं!
फ़िर पता चला , धब्बा चादर पर नही उनके मन मस्तिस्क पर था , जो ज्यूँ का तों है!
अब दो दो दुःख हैं , एक अपनी बनाईं चादर पर लगे धब्बे का , दूसरा उसे अपने ही हाथो अपनी ही बनाईं चादर नस्ट करने का !
कोनसा दुःख बड़ा है ?

ranjitjat
May 13th, 2008, 11:09 AM
Dear All,

A very sad incident indeed and unfortunately not the last one, as these things will happen again. As people become more and more educated and aware, especially the girl child, there are bound to be questions raised against traditions and customs. The older generation will do what they think as right and the newly educated and liberated young minds will question them. This is a fact of the matter and there is no way out as no one is willing to acknowledge that there is a problem that exists in the villages. In cities no one has the time to notice such things but in the villages people have lot of time for ‘noticing’, in fact many do nothing but do only this.

Is this ‘so called honor killing’ justified? No. Should concerned persons be punished? Yes, as quickly as possible. Was it right for the young couple to do what they did? The mind says, what they did was no crime, but the heart says otherwise. And it is this dilemma that will face our community (and all others who have this gotra system) in times to come. There is a very old and apt saying about brotherhood and ‘Bhaichara’ and it goes like this: “Bhai sabse pehle Gaam Ka, pher Got ka, pher Gavhand ka, pher Jaat (caste) ka, pher Paat ka, pher Desh ka aur pher Bhesh ka” (This has been mentioned by another worthy member in another post).

Now the question is: What to do? There is no way our community and its members, educated or otherwise, would accept girls and boys from the same village get into a situation where they either elope or get married. They may have been affairs between girls and boys in the villages, but our community would not accept these things openly. I don’t foresee marriages taking place in the same gotra in the next 1000 years. I may be wrong but I have had a little experience of living in a village and have tried to understand the mindset of those who live there, some of them even very educated ones.

The role of a woman or mother who remains a key factor in deciding the future of the girl child needs to be seriously looked into. As long as women are treated the way they are in the villages, nothing will improve. It is necessary for the womenfolk to come out of this vicious circle of ‘wanting to have a male child’ and thinking of a male child as one who would be a harbinger of prosperity. For that to happen, girls must be allowed to own ancestral property including land. The whole outlook of the community needs an overhaul. I know it is easier said than done but then there is no other way.

As for the departed souls, may God rest their souls in peace.

Regards,

JS Malik

I fully agree with Col Malik Sahib. This is very serious problem.
Thank you all for taking part and expressing your views
freely and fairly on this very sensitive issue.

ranjitjat
May 13th, 2008, 11:15 AM
Honour killing
Four arrested, remanded


Karnal, May 11
Two days after a pregnant woman and her lover were strangled to death in a village near here by her relatives, the police has arrested four persons, including the girl’s father, in connection with the honour killing.

The four — Om Prakash of Ballah village, the father of 23-year-old Sunita, two relatives Rajesh and Ram Mehar, and one Dharamveer - were arrested last night and produced before a duty magistrate today.

The court in Assandh town of the district has remanded the four to a 14-day judicial custody.

Even as four persons were arrested, no organisation, including the state government, had condemned the incident of honour killing.

Interestingly, Chief Minister Bhupinder Singh Hooda and a battery of his ministers and MLAs and MPs from different parties are camping in Karnal for the past several days for canvassing for Indri bypoll, but no one had reacted to the incident that had shock the region.

Sunita and Jasbir, both of the Jat community, were murdered and their bodies were displayed outside the family house in Balla village, apparently as a warning to others who might try to emulate the “immoral act” on Friday.

The family had strong reservations over the couple’s relationship as Sunita’s marriage was annulled due to her extra-marital affair.

The police said Dharamveer was the driver of one of the vehicles in which Sunita and Jasbir were bundled into after a mob pulled them out of a house in Phurlak village on Thursday night.

Though the police had registered a case against 20 persons, it has failed to arrest others.

Meanwhile, the Panipat police clarified that the couple was not forcibly taken from Neelam’s residence at Macchroli village, where they were reportedly residing for the past few months.

Panipat district police chief M.S. Sheroan said some family members of the girl had contacted the sarpanch of Macchroli village on Friday before entering Neelam’s house.

“Our investigation revealed that the family members of Sunita had told the sarpanch that they were keen to take the couple back to the village with their consent. There was no basis that the couple was taken forcibly from the Panipat village,” he claimed.

Sheroan said no crime took place in Panipat district and it was up to the Karnal police to investigate the brutal murders.

cooljat
May 13th, 2008, 11:15 AM
Jaggu Uncle,

I second & admire ur thoughts word by word!

Rock on
Jit





The role of a woman or mother who remains a key factor in deciding the future of the girl child needs to be seriously looked into. As long as women are treated the way they are in the villages, nothing will improve. It is necessary for the womenfolk to come out of this vicious circle of ‘wanting to have a male child’ and thinking of a male child as one who would be a harbinger of prosperity. For that to happen, girls must be allowed to own ancestral property including land. The whole outlook of the community needs an overhaul. I know it is easier said than done but then there is no other way.

As for the departed souls, may God rest their souls in peace.

Regards,

JS Malik

ranjitjat
May 13th, 2008, 11:17 AM
Honour Killing
One more held


Karnal, May 12
The Karnal police today arrested Satbir, another relative of Sunita, in the Balla honour killings case.

Satbir has been sent on a 14-day judicial custody by the illaqa magistrate at Assandh today. This is the fifth arrest in connection with the murder of Sunita and Jasbir.

The couple was allegedly strangled on Friday by the girl’s family and their bodies were kept outside her residence at Balla village, near Assandh.

Meanwhile, a mahapanchayat was organised today at the Jat-dominated Balla village reportedly to "discuss" the killings and its aftermath. According to the information, a panel of 47 members from different communities has been chosen to take "further course of action".

It is also learnt that the committee would discuss the issue at the village chaupal tonight and make its views public on Tuesday. The participating members refused to share the information. Certain members at the panchayat aired their views against the media for highlighting the issue.

They termed it as undue "interference" in the social set up of villages.

Though villagers from the nearby villages also attended the meeting, family of Jasbir was not invited. Sushil, brother of the deceased, confirmed over telephone that none of his family members were invited for the mahapanchayat.

Questions have also been raised on the timing of the mahapanchayat. Sushil stated that the family was finding it hard to fight for justice. He also alleged that money and pressure were playing factors in the whole issue.

sidchhikara
May 13th, 2008, 09:55 PM
In my thought Parents are not that at fault if compare with that girl.
Tau,
Bhaang chaat rhya se?



Agar hamara paida kiya hua bacchcha hamarey hee vishwas ka katal kar raha hai to hum or kya karengay. ..

Bachhon ne peet peet ke slavery karva le... tere pe nazar rakhne padegi... you kids are not safe.


isay saport karna bhee galat hai keukee yea eak beemari hai jitna suport kiya jaygee utnee he badhege.

Jo bachhey apney ma-baap ko keese anjaan key liyea chhod saktey hai wo kesee ke nahi ho saktey or isseliyea sabsay jayada ladai love couples mein hoti hai.

Tau, tanne scientific survey kar rakha se. Love couples ke baarne jaja ke survey kare se tu kyon?


These all are my thoughts.
Next time you have a thought --- just let it go!!

sidchhikara
May 13th, 2008, 10:09 PM
well this is a serious problem,but one thing i will say that family honour is primarily above love n all,

What honor??
You think these murderers had honor to begin with??



i don't understand when people know that their family won't allow them to get marry then why they get involved themselves in such kind of relationship.

Yeah, people should just shut their mind and not talk to anybody from a different cast / religion etc because at some point down the line, they might feel attracted to each other. Good thoughts!!



I can't figureout why girls go against their parents wish.
want to say--------- 'jo apne maa baap ke sage nahi hote vo apas me kya nibhayenge' . love means to sacrifice 4 others...

Yeah, the girl is supposed to sacrifice somebody she wants to spend her life with so that the parents false ego can be satisfied. What a beautiful thought.
Maa baap sage hote hain, jo apne bachchon ko jaan se maar dein.



.....n one more thing we must respect 'rishtey' getting eloped with lover is not a solution it's a poblem ........ u can't runaway from those who has brought u in this world,
tookcare.....
love is blind n all is 'bakwas'......
but killing the so called lovers is also not appreciable, u can't kill someone just becoz they got married against yr wish.......

Hahahaha !! that word is inappropriate for that sentence on so many levels.

sidchhikara
May 13th, 2008, 10:20 PM
i pity the parents, wish they had known better.
the couple were staying where they were getting love. it is very obvious that they wouldnt have got that love from such parents
parents giving birth is a law of nature but that shouldnot take away from the child a right to lead his own life.
if parents think that by giving birth they have recieved the right to decide everything for their child from his studies, his sports, his career, his partner and how many kids he should have, then it is pathetic to say the least. they dont love their children, they only love themselves and their own decisions.

killing their own child and displaying her body in the street?????? God!

if the girl had been put forcibly into a rude and abusive marriage, who is the society to not give her a right to live with the only person who really loves her to hell with such a mean society

i used to say bad about taliban but what right do i have to say a word about them, my own 'so called society' did it

if a couple love each other, why dont they have the basic right of nature to live with each other(even animal societies provide that right. just to satisfy the false egoes of the parents and the society?

"jo ma baap apne bachchon ke nahin hue, aur jinhon ne apne janm diye bachche ko maar kar display par rakh diya, wo society ke khaak hoenge"

Navin bhai, very civilized and humane thoughts !!

vijay123
May 14th, 2008, 07:24 AM
Very well answered. Such things coming from a girl shows how cold blooded her thoughts are. There is no place for such incidents in a civilized society. The incident has shown that these parents are several level below Talibans. Instead of murdering they could have simply disowned and boycotted the couple. No one has right to take a life.



What honor??
You think these murderers had honor to begin with??



Yeah, people should just shut their mind and not talk to anybody from a different cast / religion etc because at some point down the line, they might feel attracted to each other. Good thoughts!!



Yeah, the girl is supposed to sacrifice somebody she wants to spend her life with so that the parents false ego can be satisfied. What a beautiful thought.
Maa baap sage hote hain, jo apne bachchon ko jaan se maar dein.



Hahahaha !! that word is inappropriate for that sentence on so many levels.

kahlawat
May 14th, 2008, 03:06 PM
Us chori ki ma ka interview dekhu tha and I was just laughing at that lady when she was saying that yes I ordered the killing and asked my family members to kill her. Aise bhi hoti hai ma.. But later on I thoght that use bhi uske ghar walo ne kaha hoga ye sab bolne ke liye.
But one thing is sure from this that the love between the couple was very strong. although they didn't had anybody to support them still they fought with the so called society ke thekedars for so long. Both loved each other long before the girl was forced to marry in a hell like family. Girl was also strong because getting away from such a hell is not a easy task.

raj2rif
May 14th, 2008, 05:13 PM
I was just wondering "What is the Honor in Killing"? in first place.

Parenting is a very complex job. It was easy to do it when the children had no access to media and outside world. It is much more difficult and complex as the technology advances. Our day to day busy life takes us away from our loved ones, be it our children or our spouses unless we make sure that we meet each other's expectations. We have to draw a balance in our life to ensure that we do give time to all those who need your attention.

The parents must find out what the child want. One need to be friend to the children. In our community, more often than not, we do act like we are the authority. We don't see the change that had taken place during all these years that we grew up. A lot can be written on the subject.

My only question to all the senior members who justify this act is simplest one : "What is the honor in Killing"?

Will some one answer that?

ygulia
May 15th, 2008, 03:51 AM
Sab se auchhi baat ye hai ki ab tak kisi bhi Political leader(MLA/MP) ne ,chahe wo kisi bhi party ka ho, byan nahi diya ki ye bahut hi ghinona kaam hua hai. Ye sare ke sare leader chup baithe hai.............Ise baat se andaja laga lo ki in sabhi leadro ka koi deen dhran nahi hai..........paisa inka baap hai aur kursi inki maa hai............

sidchhikara
May 15th, 2008, 04:07 AM
Sab se auchhi baat ye hai ki ab tak kisi bhi Political leader(MLA/MP) ne ,chahe wo kisi bhi party ka ho, byan nahi diya ki ye bahut hi ghinona kaam hua hai. Ye sare ke sare leader chup baithe hai.............Ise baat se andaja laga lo ki in sabhi leadro ka koi deen dhran nahi hai..........paisa inka baap hai aur kursi inki maa hai............

Leaders kya bolenge .... leaders represent mostly uneducated people who don't care about this or think it is ok.

Some of the so-called educated people on this forum think that this was somehow justified.

Garmi mein inki buddhi brahsht ho rahi se.

spdeshwal
May 15th, 2008, 07:46 AM
Col Tevathia ji, a woman,s greatest honor is motherhood.There can,t be a greater honor for a women than becoming a mother and can,t be a greater dishonor or disgrace than becoming partner to the killing of her own child with her grand child in her womb!



It is very very complex situation. those from rural background would know this better. I agree with Colonel Malik the whole outlook of the community needs an overhauling.

I remember an incident in my village where two teenager of our community were involved. Same Gottra, same Village, same Panna. They were two young to realise any thing. They ran away from home but where the two 15-16 year old could go. There end looked like a suicide or was made to look like a suicide. Believe me , the tragic end was a big relief to the whole village.

I was too in my teens and was of the view that time that there was no alternate to what had happened. After 30 years of that incident I have no clearcut solution to that problem.

What are the feasible solutions?

Do away with Gotra system and allow marriages in same Gotra?

Allow marriage in the same village?

Allow intercaste marriage even within in a village?

Allow all the above but the couple cease to have any relation/ connection/inheritance ?



I wouldn,t support this heinious crime even in my wildest dream but favoure the age old customs of not marrying in at least same Gotra.

I believe, all the members would agree with Colonel Malik that the community needs to make some fundamental changes. I would request all the members to contribute and suggest the ways to tackle this problem.

spdeshwal
May 15th, 2008, 08:05 AM
I consider the present Gotra system of marriage as a deterrent that restricts such incidents. It restricts youths from any relationship within the same Gotra/ village. Number of violent incidents is more where intercaste, relationship/ marriages happen.

navingulia
May 15th, 2008, 10:53 AM
Satyepal Sir,
Referring to your points raised by you (waise till now i was not aware that this was a same gotra case also as it was not mentioned in any news and updates.

1. origin of gotra was obviously when gotras were like small families. it was a system designed by man to suit those times. Not today when gotra stregths are 10 to 15 lakhs.

2. scientifically 5 generation gap is maintained and considered safest.

3. some people have strong sentiments attached to gotras since they have lived with the concept in all the upbringing. These people should by all means follow gotra system to the extent they feel fine. We all can understand these sentiments. I always feel a closer bond with those who are Gulia or ahlawat(my maternal gotra).

4. However, if any person wants to not abide by the system he should be free to do so and with as much respect as anyone else. If you dont want to meet him or talk to him, fine.

5. We dont need to do away with gotra system or caste system, time will do that (whether we want that to happen or not). But those who dont want to follow it, can do so.

6. Today so many arranged marriages are happening without declaring that the third gotra was not adhered too i.e 3rd gotra (grandmothers) clashing. when good rishta comes the samaj silently ignored third gotra.

7. the human civilisation has always changed/evolved since stone age and will do so, ir-respective of whether we want it to change or not.


roodhivadita abhishaap hai, hame aur samaj ko apni soch ko bada karne ki jaroorat hai.

jis samaj ne un mata pita ko itna uksaya ki unhone apne bachchon ko maar dala, wo samaj utna hi doshi hai.

prashantacmet
May 15th, 2008, 11:37 AM
Leaders kya bolenge .... leaders represent mostly uneducated people who don't care about this or think it is ok.

Some of the so-called educated people on this forum think that this was somehow justified.

Garmi mein inki buddhi brahsht ho rahi se.

Dear bro calm down!! i really don't justify the act of killing even a bit. It's not a crime to search for happiness what exactly couple did but have you stretched your nerves to find out the actual cause that provoked parents to take this drastic step? I think the biggest fear of the parents/family was that whole community/village will slander the family till centuries. Not even this generation but forthcoming generations also would be humiliated ..issi baat koi na bhoolta ..gaama main to kai peedhiyan lok kahawat ban jaaya karree... ..solution lies not in blaming parents but lies somewhere else...hope u understand:):)

jatriski99
May 15th, 2008, 03:14 PM
I wanna ask you al ----- how many of you would favour a jat grl marrying in muslim community or to lower castes?

nysa
May 15th, 2008, 04:13 PM
I wanna ask you al ----- how many of you would favour a jat grl marrying in muslim community or to lower castes?


Praggya , I guess u r missing the whole point here. :)

a very simple question that has been raised up here is : does a human life has a value or not ? can two people decide to live the life they would like to or not?


rahi baat , muslim ya lower caste mein shadi karne ki to , I would only say , if the two peope involved have taken the decision they must given thought to all the pros n cons.no body is immamture to take such decision without any prudence ...
waise just n FYI... the same has happened in our village.... where one of the girl from our community has married the muslim guy and nobody seems to be minding that.. and touch wood she living well and blessed with two beautiful kids :)

Cheers to the humanity :)

navingulia
May 15th, 2008, 05:36 PM
I wanna ask you al ----- how many of you would favour a jat grl marrying in muslim community or to lower castes?

1. as many girls, as would chose a muslim/other caste partners. fine with me.
2. girls of Jat community are not my personal property and i dont want to treat them like that.
will the humans ever evolve beyond these petty things?

shashiverma
May 15th, 2008, 06:36 PM
--------------------

prashantacmet
May 15th, 2008, 06:46 PM
Praggya , I guess u r missing the whole point here. :)

a very simple question that has been raised up here is : does a human life has a value or not ? can two people decide to live the life they would like to or not?


rahi baat , muslim ya lower caste mein shadi karne ki to , I would only say , if the two peope involved have taken the decision they must given thought to all the pros n cons.no body is immamture to take such decision without any prudence ...
waise just n FYI... the same has happened in our village.... where one of the girl from our community has married the muslim guy and nobody seems to be minding that.. and touch wood she living well and blessed with two beautiful kids :)

Cheers to the humanity :)

Eight wonder of world.:confused:..kaun sa gaam hai ji aapka.?..ham bhi darshan kar lenge

sunitahooda
May 15th, 2008, 07:35 PM
Praggya....why are you going out of JAT community? A question to ALL Members favoring the Girl's act- How many of you have married in your village itself or first cousins? or will be marrying off your children in same pattern as the deceased girl did?The murder was a brutal step....no doubt about it but how many can actually HER STEPS? It certainly feels great to type about such things and appreciating each other's fancy words BUT can all who have unmarried children really go to your villages and find suitable matches in their villages itself not out of it?
I wanna ask you al ----- how many of you would favour a jat grl marrying in muslim community or to lower castes?

naveenbazad
May 15th, 2008, 08:38 PM
i am a person who accepts the situation and move on .. whereas what i find is that many ppl among our jat community is not ready to move on ...

for example a jat girl wants to marry a muslim or a village guy ... like any other parents u will object it and tells the girl the pitfalls .. even after that the girl marries then what happens is this :

even if a girl is living happily and fighting hard and works day and night and earnign good enough money .. what parents does is this .. whenever she comes in home instead of talking in a polite manner they say hummne kaha tha na yeh sahi nahi hein .. hum to yeh bol rahe the wagera wagera
.. humme to pehle pata tha yeh hoga and always tries to prove that they r right ......

whereas what shd it be ... parents shd be polite in every manner to a girl ...they shd support her in every manner ... they shd not be a cause of worry for the girl ....that her parents r behaving in this manner because she has taken the decision ...

what if parents has chosen and she faces prob then ...

so what i want to say is that u shd accept the situation .. work hard and try to make it better .. if sincere effort is there then i dont think any thing will not work....

now someone say what if girl faces the lots of problem ... then according to me parents shd not take decission ... let the girl take decision what she wants .. its her life .. u just have to be suggestion giver but that too also to soem extent ...

saranrabar
May 15th, 2008, 11:49 PM
"All Desirable things in life are either banned, illegal, expensive, fattening or married to someone else!"
I like this quote. It is amusing. Sex and love and longing were so expensive for Sunita, she paid it with her life!

More serious tone: the killing of Sunita and Jasbir, the lovers, is in a way the responsibility of her family, villagers and extended family members, village elders and other panchayat members, and … the Jat community, including a virtual community such as ours. Before shooting me for this statement, reread the statements of the honorable Jat virtual community members above.

To say is politely, someone would state “we are humans with weaknesses and shortcomings. We sin, and approve such a sin (the killing of Sunita and Jasbir) because some of our century old culture kept us insensitive to rationality of the status of being human. Wanting to be loved, and loving someone is natural for human being. Some fall in love with the pretty, educated, rich and internationally savvy Jat boy, her family found (bought) through business connections. Other just fall in love naturally, despite all the centuries old taboos of their “prestigious lineages.”

To say it less diplomatically, other person would say “We Jats are backwards. Even the most educated of us, with PhD degree and Internet literacy, could not comprehend – why the heck are they in love anyway?” Indeed, what a stupid concept: falling in love with someone your parents did not designate? Why don’t they (Sunita and Jasbir) obey to their elders edicts? Why fall in love out of wedlock while you know pertinently that you are Jats?

To put the weight of cultural backwardness in perspective, just think of “how are the Jats living and working in large cities looking at the ways and means of those Jats in villages?” How are the “educated traditions and pride” of those working for governments and large businesses and the Army viewed by those Jats who owned houses in the United Kingdom and Kentucky, USA? This is to say that backwardness is RELATIVE, and SUBJECTIVE view of the world.

Probably the family of Sunita felt a strong peer pressure amongst villagers. For them to become whole and be accepted again by the village elders and other panchayat members and their neighbors, they needed to “wash the perceived sin of their daughter, by killing her”. So did they.
There is hope: just the fact that the troubling event was reported and discussed here is a hope that someday, 10 years or 100 years from now, the Jats will shed their backwardness and embrace all the good things of the world. Being human means being able to select and judge, what needs to be kept and fostered (such as higher education and good grammar), and what needs to be trashed (such as honor killing and profanities.)


==========


I would say girl took a wrong decision instead of living with the taxi driver she must have given a seriuos thought about her 'identity crisis'. she must have left her parents n husband forever n worked hard to be independent.

vo to ek hell se nikalkar dusre hell me chali gayi............I don't understand the whole concept of getting married, are we girls only for marrige n kids? i mean girls must refuse to except this . she wasn't financially n socially strong that's why she became a victim, if she had been that strong i think her life would have been on otherway.. ..i will strongly say education is important 4 girls not marriage or the so called 'love'.
one more thing 4 parents............
aaj bhi ladki tumhare upar bhoj hai, ek dar hai,tumhari taakat nahi kamjori hai........I have seen in my village mere saath ki sari ladkiyon ki haalat.......unhe kahin bhi kuch nahi mila na apne ghar mein na sasural mein........dono jagah unhone sirf gobar utahaya aur bhans ko nilaya........they don't know abt es gaon aur ghar ke bhar bhi ek duniya hai.....aur gaon ke bujurg bhaut proud feel karte hain unpar......crap........
4 grls............
hamari pheli priority honi chahiye.......to be financially n socially strong.....rest baad mein. aft all this is ur life hemare har faisle hamari life ko nayi disha dikhate hain........if yr parents refuse to allow u from getting married to yr whatever..........i think it's better don't get married 4 whole life.......

saranrabar
May 16th, 2008, 12:04 AM
This is a very thoughtful post by one of our most worthy members. So I wish to just repost it to emphasis my approbation, instead of paraphrasing what is well said. Thanks.



Dear All,

A very sad incident indeed and unfortunately not the last one, as these things will happen again. As people become more and more educated and aware, especially the girl child, there are bound to be questions raised against traditions and customs. The older generation will do what they think as right and the newly educated and liberated young minds will question them. This is a fact of the matter and there is no way out as no one is willing to acknowledge that there is a problem that exists in the villages. In cities no one has the time to notice such things but in the villages people have lot of time for ‘noticing’, in fact many do nothing but do only this.

Is this ‘so called honor killing’ justified? No. Should concerned persons be punished? Yes, as quickly as possible. Was it right for the young couple to do what they did? The mind says, what they did was no crime, but the heart says otherwise. And it is this dilemma that will face our community (and all others who have this gotra system) in times to come. There is a very old and apt saying about brotherhood and ‘Bhaichara’ and it goes like this: “Bhai sabse pehle Gaam Ka, pher Got ka, pher Gavhand ka, pher Jaat (caste) ka, pher Paat ka, pher Desh ka aur pher Bhesh ka” (This has been mentioned by another worthy member in another post).

Now the question is: What to do? There is no way our community and its members, educated or otherwise, would accept girls and boys from the same village get into a situation where they either elope or get married. They may have been affairs between girls and boys in the villages, but our community would not accept these things openly. I don’t foresee marriages taking place in the same gotra in the next 1000 years. I may be wrong but I have had a little experience of living in a village and have tried to understand the mindset of those who live there, some of them even very educated ones.

The role of a woman or mother who remains a key factor in deciding the future of the girl child needs to be seriously looked into. As long as women are treated the way they are in the villages, nothing will improve. It is necessary for the womenfolk to come out of this vicious circle of ‘wanting to have a male child’ and thinking of a male child as one who would be a harbinger of prosperity. For that to happen, girls must be allowed to own ancestral property including land. The whole outlook of the community needs an overhaul. I know it is easier said than done but then there is no other way.

As for the departed souls, may God rest their souls in peace.

Regards,

JS Malik

vijay
May 16th, 2008, 02:11 AM
I have a female friend at Jatland who says that she doesn't have any match for her within the Jat community.

Should we kill her at first place ....... or let her try her theory to understand this world ?

sidchhikara
May 16th, 2008, 04:50 AM
I have a female friend at Jatland who says that she doesn't have any match for her within the Jat community.

Should we kill her at first place ....... or let her try her theory to understand this world ?

Hmmm.. lets see.... I know you question is rhetorical ... but I will treat it as literal.

And mind you ... I am just reflecting the thoughts of a minority of members on Jatland.

Lets come up with a way to kill.....

1) Using guns is not safe because it can be traced back to the owner.
2) How about kick her in the face till her facial features disappear.
3) If she is pregnant kicking her in the stomach would do the trick since it is a vulnerable spot ... ek teer se do shikar.
4) She can be hanged in the chaupal while the sarpanch puffs at his hooka.
5) Stabbing, it seems convenient and there is choice. The butcher can use daranti, saag katne ki chhuri, or order a Rampuri chakkoo since this is a special occasion.
6) How about an old-fashioned rape-kill-run?

Most importantly, after the kill, a decision has to be made about the corpse display. This includes what the corpse should wear - lets go traditional this time since it will complement the reason for killing - tradition! A full-fledged daaman is needed. This can be found in daadi's sandook. How about arranging a dharam so that people from neighboring villages can also attend this spectacle -- ladoo, jalebi bhi jeem jyange.

I am not finished... here's the kicker - The gentleman who does the execution can say that it is in the name of Jat tradition. This will also provide ink to the press and exhibit the valor of our people.

Members are free to add more ways to kill to the above list.

nysa
May 16th, 2008, 07:46 AM
Hmmm.. lets see.... I know you question is rhetorical ... but I will treat it as literal.

And mind you ... I am just reflecting the thoughts of a minority of members on Jatland.

Lets come up with a way to kill.....

1) Using guns is not safe because it can be traced back to the owner.
2) How about kick her in the face till her facial features disappear.
3) If she is pregnant kicking her in the stomach would do the trick since it is a vulnerable spot ... ek teer se do shikar.
4) She can be hanged in the chaupal while the sarpanch puffs at his hooka.
5) Stabbing, it seems convenient and there is choice. The butcher can use daranti, saag katne ki chhuri, or order a Rampuri chakkoo since this is a special occasion.
6) How about an old-fashioned rape-kill-run?

Most importantly, after the kill, a decision has to be made about the corpse display. This includes what the corpse should wear - lets go traditional this time since it will complement the reason for killing - tradition! A full-fledged daaman is needed. This can be found in daadi's sandook. How about arranging a dharam so that people from neighboring villages can also attend this spectacle -- ladoo, jalebi bhi jeem jyange.

I am not finished... here's the kicker - The gentleman who does the execution can say that it is in the name of Jat tradition. This will also provide ink to the press and exhibit the valor of our people.

Members are free to add more ways to kill to the above list.


even these would not suffice ..trust me on this buddy ..



Eight wonder of world.:confused:..kaun sa gaam hai ji aapka.?..ham bhi darshan kar lenge


gaam ka naam bhujh k koi fayda koni coz neither ur muslim nor from the lower caste.

nysa
May 16th, 2008, 07:55 AM
Sunita, no offences ..but wat do u suggest ???


Well, if we go by this HONOUR KILLING then mind it , half of these villages would be dead , Now ppl dont act as if we are not aware how extra -marital had been flourishing in our villages ryt under our PRUDENT noses!!

Not just dat, are we not aware of the affairs that been springing among the teens, the teens pregnencies, kept in hush, avoided to come into light!!

Killings will stop such cases who can guarantee this ?? Nobody. I m not promoting or concurring what the deceased did...but can we all think of a solution ? Is there any ? All I can think of is education putting a sense of ryt and wrong from the childhood and giving some respect to the FEMALES , at least a recognition as human being.

cooljat
May 16th, 2008, 10:52 AM
Hummmm.... Its so very true!! :)

Lil offtopic, I find ur name lil strange, how do ya spell it?

Ok, now lets get back to the topic!...


"All Desirable things in life are either banned, illegal, expensive, fattening or married to someone else!"

prashantacmet
May 16th, 2008, 10:59 AM
even these would not suffice ..trust me on this buddy ..





gaam ka naam bhujh k koi fayda koni coz neither ur muslim nor from the lower caste.

iska matlab lower caste arr muslim hona zaroori sai .......:p...suthra gaam sai:rolleyes:.......2-4 gaam aur likad jaange uss main tai mixed breed aale.....:rock

yudhvirmor
May 16th, 2008, 03:36 PM
I wanna ask you al ----- how many of you would favour a jat grl marrying in muslim community or to lower castes?

I just wanna tweak this question.....

How many of us would favour our jat daughter/sister/bua/Grand daughter to marry in our Gotra/our village or may be with her cusion (she has every right to follow her heart...)

I dont know but i think there is something called INCEST. :confused::confused::confused:

ygulia
May 16th, 2008, 03:39 PM
I have a female friend at Jatland who says that she doesn't have any match for her within the Jat community.

Should we kill her at first place ....... or let her try her theory to understand this world ?

Vijay your friend says: she doesn't have any match for her within the Jat community??????????????

If she has any excuse or any thing else and she wants to go for marriage outside the community then it is fine. But she should not say that she has no match within the community. It appears that her social circle or knowledge about JAT community is limited and you(VIJAY) should help her in that field.

There are people who want to go for marriage outside the community because they love someone, there is no harm in doing so. I will say always go for your love but do not find excuses to justify it before parents that there are no matches available within community.

arunshamli
May 16th, 2008, 03:48 PM
bina soche samjhe kiye kaam kaa anjam kabhee bhee achcha nahi hota.

spdeshwal
May 16th, 2008, 05:36 PM
Dear Vijay

There are numerous examples where a girl or boy has opted for intercaste marriage from our community. Where is the problem? My own nephew has married a non jat sikh girl. But in this case both boy and girl have shown lots of patience and determination. They had to waite for years for the parents to consent. They didn't want to hurt the feelings of the parents as well.
Your friend seems to be an educated woman who can lead an independent life if circumstances demand of her. I have concluded her to be educated because most of the Jatland members are highly educated and your friend doesn't find a compatibles match within the community shows that she has attained some high standards in her education and career as well.

The problem we are discussing is related to those unfortunate girls who are mostly from rural background and may not be in a position to lead an independent life. By saying independent I mean, Moving away from home and can support herself without the support of family and relatives.

Bhai Yudhveer, the term 'Incest' is mostly used for close relations and probably couldn't be applied to cases involving marriage in same Gotra but a different village. Of course, I wouldn't support this at all.


Cheers!

jitendershooda
May 16th, 2008, 06:15 PM
Satyepal Sir,
Referring to your points raised by you (waise till now i was not aware that this was a same gotra case also as it was not mentioned in any news and updates.
roodhivadita abhishaap hai, hame aur samaj ko apni soch ko bada karne ki jaroorat hai.

jis samaj ne un mata pita ko itna uksaya ki unhone apne bachchon ko maar dala, wo samaj utna hi doshi hai.

Navin bhai, you have explained it correctly. But still owing to the blocked mind am not able to digest till now ... though trying to be more and more liberal in thoughts .... may be this is the property of mind to refuse new and different thoughts in first go.

Satyepal ji have brought up nice questions.

I wish to share with you all one incident .... that I have written in some other thread also .....

Ye jo PYAR ki baat kahi ja rahi hai .... just willing to know ...what age members feel is the right age to go for pyar ... ye 15-16 saal ki umar mein huya khichav pyar hota hai kya? and are they aware at that age what is right and what is wrong? What I feel is that at the earlier stages child is dragged by other fantasies rather than PYAR.

Last year one professor of patna was having affair with his 22-23 year old student ... they were openly saying that though the man have few children and one wife but what they can do they are in PYAR .... let them live their life ... why samaj is concerned about this. Couldnt come up to any conclusion that time also ..... on one side the family and wife of person is there ... ab kahene ko to yun bhi kahe lein ki us aurat ne uska jeena haram kar rakha hoga .....

Jaise iss case mein kuchek comments padhey us ladki ki shadi wale ghar ke liye ... NARAK se nikal kar ... dont feel so ... agar us family ne us ladki ko talaq de diya itni asani se to iska matlab wo kharab log nahi they ... unko kyun badnam karte ho ... ab ek ghar ki bahu ka premi usse milne ata hai shadi ke baad bhi ... to wo log kya karenge ... hum log sympathy mein itne bahe jate hein ki surroundings sab dhatta ho jati hein ....

Second .... rohtak khattar wani .... char bacho ki maa apne premi sang bhagi ... 1 rupiye mein ...... though a funny comment ... but .... it is a question also ... whether to let her live her life ... or is she wrong and we should not encourage such things .... or what can be the solution for such kind of incidents.

One more .... ek din rohtak kacheri mein ek chora milya ... Saini guy was married to a girl ... but they came to know that she was pregnant of 6 months after 4 months of marriage only ... and later they found that the baby was of her TAU only ... who used to visit her sasural even after the marriage .... girl was in LOVE with her TAU ji ..... and didnt dropped the child ... gods knows but that guy was facing a Dowry case ...

So what should be the solution for such kind of incidents ...

Kis kis baat ko hum roodhivadita mein dalna chahenge ..... ya phir this should be the theme ... koe kime kare ... karan dyo ...its their life.

prashantacmet
May 16th, 2008, 06:44 PM
Navin bhai, you have explained it correctly. But still owing to the blocked mind am not able to digest till now ... though trying to be more and more liberal in thoughts .... may be this is the property of mind to refuse new and different thoughts in first go.

Satyepal ji have brought up nice questions.

I wish to share with you all one incident .... that I have written in some other thread also .....

Ye jo PYAR ki baat kahi ja rahi hai .... just willing to know ...what age members feel is the right age to go for pyar ... ye 15-16 saal ki umar mein huya khichav pyar hota hai kya? and are they aware at that age what is right and what is wrong? What I feel is that at the earlier stages child is dragged by other fantasies rather than PYAR.

Last year one professor of patna was having affair with his 22-23 year old student ... they were openly saying that though the man have few children and one wife but what they can do they are in PYAR .... let them live their life ... why samaj is concerned about this. Couldnt come up to any conclusion that time also ..... on one side the family and wife of person is there ... ab kahene ko to yun bhi kahe lein ki us aurat ne uska jeena haram kar rakha hoga .....

Jaise iss case mein kuchek comments padhey us ladki ki shadi wale ghar ke liye ... NARAK se nikal kar ... dont feel so ... agar us family ne us ladki ko talaq de diya itni asani se to iska matlab wo kharab log nahi they ... unko kyun badnam karte ho ... ab ek ghar ki bahu ka premi usse milne ata hai shadi ke baad bhi ... to wo log kya karenge ... hum log sympathy mein itne bahe jate hein ki surroundings sab dhatta ho jati hein ....

Second .... rohtak khattar wani .... char bacho ki maa apne premi sang bhagi ... 1 rupiye mein ...... though a funny comment ... but .... it is a question also ... whether to let her live her life ... or is she wrong and we should not encourage such things .... or what can be the solution for such kind of incidents.

One more .... ek din rohtak kacheri mein ek chora milya ... Saini guy was married to a girl ... but they came to know that she was pregnant of 6 months after 4 months of marriage only ... and later they found that the baby was of her TAU only ... who used to visit her sasural even after the marriage .... girl was in LOVE with her TAU ji ..... and didnt dropped the child ... gods knows but that guy was facing a Dowry case ...

So what should be the solution for such kind of incidents ...

Kis kis baat ko hum roodhivadita mein dalna chahenge ..... ya phir this should be the theme ... koe kime kare ... karan dyo ...its their life.

Reamarkable explaination hooda bhai....it was expected from u dear:):)

prashantacmet
May 16th, 2008, 06:47 PM
Vijay your friend says: she doesn't have any match for her within the Jat community??????????????

If she has any excuse or any thing else and she wants to go for marriage outside the community then it is fine. But she should not say that she has no match within the community. It appears that her social circle or knowledge about JAT community is limited and you(VIJAY) should help her in that field.

There are people who want to go for marriage outside the community because they love someone, there is no harm in doing so. I will say always go for your love but do not find excuses to justify it before parents that there are no matches available within community.

nice thoughts yoginder bhai:)

cooljat
May 16th, 2008, 06:59 PM
Kudos to u bhaisaab, I second ur 'pragmatic' thoughts word by word! :)


There are numerous examples where a girl or boy has opted for intercaste marriage from our community. Where is the problem? My own nephew has married a non jat sikh girl. But in this case both boy and girl have shown lots of patience and determination. They had to waite for years for the parents to consent. They didn't want to hurt the feelings of the parents as well.
Your friend seems to be an educated woman who can lead an independent life if circumstances demand of her. I have concluded her to be educated because most of the Jatland members are highly educated and your friend doesn't find a compatibles match within the community shows that she has attained some high standards in her education and career as well.

The problem we are discussing is related to those unfortunate girls who are mostly from rural background and may not be in a position to lead an independent life. By saying independent I mean, Moving away from home and can support herself without the support of family and relatives.

Bhai Yudhveer, the term 'Incest' is mostly used for close relations and probably couldn't be applied to cases involving marriage in same Gotra but a different village. Of course, I wouldn't support this at all.


Cheers!

jatriski99
May 16th, 2008, 07:55 PM
Praggya , I guess u r missing the whole point here. :)

a very simple question that has been raised up here is : does a human life has a value or not ? can two people decide to live the life they would like to or not?


rahi baat , muslim ya lower caste mein shadi karne ki to , I would only say , if the two peope involved have taken the decision they must given thought to all the pros n cons.no body is immamture to take such decision without any prudence ...
waise just n FYI... the same has happened in our village.... where one of the girl from our community has married the muslim guy and nobody seems to be minding that.. and touch wood she living well and blessed with two beautiful kids :)

Cheers to the humanity :)

I'm nt talking abt exception, tel me wat the majority feels. few exceptions r always there, it doesn't means jats r getting liberal, it's a fact we r a very rigid community, I ve nt heard jats let her daughters married to Sc/St, tel me hw many?

jatriski99
May 16th, 2008, 08:10 PM
Navin bhai, you have explained it correctly. But still owing to the blocked mind am not able to digest till now ... though trying to be more and more liberal in thoughts .... may be this is the property of mind to refuse new and different thoughts in first go.

Satyepal ji have brought up nice questions.

I wish to share with you all one incident .... that I have written in some other thread also .....

Ye jo PYAR ki baat kahi ja rahi hai .... just willing to know ...what age members feel is the right age to go for pyar ... ye 15-16 saal ki umar mein huya khichav pyar hota hai kya? and are they aware at that age what is right and what is wrong? What I feel is that at the earlier stages child is dragged by other fantasies rather than PYAR.

Last year one professor of patna was having affair with his 22-23 year old student ... they were openly saying that though the man have few children and one wife but what they can do they are in PYAR .... let them live their life ... why samaj is concerned about this. Couldnt come up to any conclusion that time also ..... on one side the family and wife of person is there ... ab kahene ko to yun bhi kahe lein ki us aurat ne uska jeena haram kar rakha hoga .....

Jaise iss case mein kuchek comments padhey us ladki ki shadi wale ghar ke liye ... NARAK se nikal kar ... dont feel so ... agar us family ne us ladki ko talaq de diya itni asani se to iska matlab wo kharab log nahi they ... unko kyun badnam karte ho ... ab ek ghar ki bahu ka premi usse milne ata hai shadi ke baad bhi ... to wo log kya karenge ... hum log sympathy mein itne bahe jate hein ki surroundings sab dhatta ho jati hein ....

Second .... rohtak khattar wani .... char bacho ki maa apne premi sang bhagi ... 1 rupiye mein ...... though a funny comment ... but .... it is a question also ... whether to let her live her life ... or is she wrong and we should not encourage such things .... or what can be the solution for such kind of incidents.

One more .... ek din rohtak kacheri mein ek chora milya ... Saini guy was married to a girl ... but they came to know that she was pregnant of 6 months after 4 months of marriage only ... and later they found that the baby was of her TAU only ... who used to visit her sasural even after the marriage .... girl was in LOVE with her TAU ji ..... and didnt dropped the child ... gods knows but that guy was facing a Dowry case ...

So what should be the solution for such kind of incidents ...

Kis kis baat ko hum roodhivadita mein dalna chahenge ..... ya phir this should be the theme ... koe kime kare ... karan dyo ...its their life.


very well said sir, logon ne pyaar ka matlab galat samjha hai, pyaar kise se bhag kar shaadi karne ya cheekh cheekh kar kahena ki main tumse pyaar katra hun bla..bla.... nahi hota.
ek maa apne bacchon se jitna pyaar karti hai usse jyada pyaar koi kisi se nahi kar sakta kyonki usme 'dard' ka rishta hota hai.dard ke bagair pyaar nahi, aur apne pyaar ki vajah se aap apne maa baap ko takleef dete ho to vo pyaar nahi, parents kabhi apne bacchon ka bura nahi chahate.

agar aap kisi se pyaar karte ho to apne maa baap ko manao chahe thoda wait karna pade.
badon ke ashirwad ke bagiar duniya ki saari khushyiaan bemani hoti hai.
pyaar apki takat hona chahiye kamjori nahi.

sumitsehrawat
May 16th, 2008, 10:05 PM
And, what about thousands of those "men" who are involved in bride trade? I am not sure how much affluence these men themselves live in. Forget love puv...brides are traded from places like Jharkhand, Orrisa, Bengal...etc etc. A girl such bought is forced to live with man('men' in some cases) already with 2-3-4-5-6 (God knows what number) kids after being paid for(starting from Rs1000). Scarcity of women in THE state is termed as an excuse and is well accepted. Scarcity?? Don't they themselves practice female foeticide??

Talking about Jasbir-Sunita case, I am literally dumbfounded. Talking of them and their parents, to me no one seems to be right and no one seems to be wrong. But jaan se maarna...still...pcchhhh:(!!...I mean c'mon...you can't kill anyone only on the pretense of "samaaj me muh dikhane layak nahi choda".

Honour killing???? C'mon gimme a break from such double standards.

Thanks...!!

sunitahooda
May 16th, 2008, 11:31 PM
Yudhvir...i've already raised this question the other way round:)as i said its nice to write/suggest/agree/disagree....but IMPOSSIBLE to follow the path
I just wanna tweak this question.....

How many of us would favour our jat daughter/sister/bua/Grand daughter to marry in our Gotra/our village or may be with her cusion (she has every right to follow her heart...)

I dont know but i think there is something called INCEST. :confused::confused::confused:

yudhvirmor
May 16th, 2008, 11:52 PM
Yudhvir...i've already raised this question the other way round:)as i said its nice to write/suggest/agree/disagree....but IMPOSSIBLE to follow the path


yeah.. wahi baat hai ji "Jis Tan lage, Woh hee Jane.."
Bhasanbaji karne main kya jata hai.. Har koi Liberal hai par jab apna bacha homework nahin karta toh, uske thapad hee lagte hain..... baki mere ko bhi pasand nahin hai bechon par pressure dalnaa :mad::mad::mad:

ravichaudhary
May 17th, 2008, 01:39 AM
In these matters, everyone will have an opinion, usually strong ones.

There is no honour in killing. The act of killing is a sign of weakness in the killer and those who sanction it.

The matter is a tragedy, when a human beings life is lost and the effect on one’s family, near and dear ones is unimaginable. There is then tendency to allocate blame, on the family, the village community, even the victims.

In our Jat culture, there have been historically very strict rules about marriage, both the mothers and fathers, at the least, Goth being avoided. The dadi's goth was also avoided. Marriage with the same village was also avoided.

The purpose was clear, to keep gene lines, widespread, and to avoid inter cousin marriage.

Is this to say that no case was this tradition broken! Probably was, but the then the strictures were quite strict, one being that those who broken these rules were ostracized from the village community.


Did liaisons between people in the same village occur, one must expect yes, but they would be surreptitious, and when they came to light the strictures were serious too.

Now the village community is breaking down. the panchayats are ineffective. The younger generation does not carry the same respect for their elders , they did in earlier times.

In our modern context our problem becomes, how do we address the problem?

Today society is not the same as it was 50 or 100 years ago, society is much more mobile, and not interdependent.

The old traditions are breaking down, so is marriage within the same village, but into different goths acceptable or not?

When one looks at a village excess of violence, one has to also understand the daily conditions in a village. The anonymity of a city does not exist, and everything that goes on, is a raw engagement, with everything being common knowledge. The family or person is living in the glare of open sight, and all actions are in full sight, and criticized.

In this situation, people lose their temper, and anger takes over. A case like this will cause feeling of insult, and hot headed emotions will override a calmer brain.

Is there a solution? One would guess not, - hot headedness will lead to anger and violence and killing, which is a crime.

At the same time we should keep in mind that these are isolated cases, certainly not representative of the norm.



Ravi Chaudhary

vijay
May 17th, 2008, 02:15 AM
I remember an incident in my village where two teenager of our community were involved. Same Gottra, same Village, same Panna. They were two young to realise any thing. They ran away from home but where the two 15-16 year old could go. There end looked like a suicide or was made to look like a suicide. Believe me , the tragic end was a big relief to the whole village.


I remember an incident one and half year back where two brothers used to live in adjacent farm houses near Villege/town Bhattu ( Fatehabad District in Haryana ) and their wives were sisters too. One brother's son had an affair with another brother's daughter. Tense situtaion forced them to elope from their homes. The family sttriked back .... caught them and both brothers decided to kill their kids at first hand.


The Real tragedy : Father of the male kid killed his son mercilessly with the axe into pieces. Father of the female also had an axe and when he tried to kill her ....... he simply couldn't.

She is still alive.

One brother killed his son for the sake of ******** and feeling decepted when other didn't accomplished the task which was promised.

You wise people now decide that who was wrong and why ?

And above all ....... was that relationship acceptable ?

ygulia
May 17th, 2008, 04:51 AM
I remember an incident one and half year back where two brothers used to live in adjacent farm houses near Villege/town Bhattu ( Fatehabad District in Haryana ) and their wives were sisters too. One brother's son had an affair with another brother's daughter. Tense situtaion forced them to elope from their homes. The family sttriked back .... caught them and both brothers decided to kill their kids at first hand.


The Real tragedy : Father of the male kid killed his son mercilessly with the axe into pieces. Father of the female also had an axe and when he tried to kill her ....... he simply couldn't.

She is still alive.

One brother killed his son for the sake of ******** and feeling decepted when other didn't accomplished the task which was promised.

You wise people now decide that who was wrong and why ?

And above all ....... was that relationship acceptable ?


Both are wrong.
They did not bring up their children nicely. They did not observe/notice the actions of their kids while they were growing. They only realised it when things went out of control. This relationship is not acceptable in our society and their association is even illegal in the eyes of law.
Killing was not a solution for this. They would have disowned their kids and let the society also know about it. If they had been living together even after taking steps as mentioned earlier then they could be charged under CPC.
The marriage within gotra can not be stoped but marriage between brother/sister and half borther/sister, or any other relation by blood or even adopted brother/sister can not take place under Hindu Marriage Act.

It is my personal view that we should always avoid the gotra of self and mother in marriages. The children should be taught about it from the begining. We, JATS, are very backward in providing social values and sex education to our kids. These so called panchayats of khap etc. what they do for the good of the society? Nothing, they just assemble on such occasions for political mileage and rather create more problems for the people. They never do nice things for the upliftment of the community. The most unfortunate things I observe that educated people are also behind these socially uneducated people who are GOD FATHER of these panchayats.

raj2rif
May 17th, 2008, 09:53 AM
I wanna ask you al ----- how many of you would favour a jat grl marrying in muslim community or to lower castes?

Dear Ms. Praggya,

Excellent question. However instead of answering your question, I would like to ask you a question itself.

If you have to choose one man out of the two: whom will you choose:

1. First person is a muslim of the calibre of our Ex President
2. Second person is a Jat who is a serial killer or a criminal.

The reason I am asking you this question is that in the present day scenario, the quality of the person is more important than the caste itself.

However if both the person are of the same calibre then obviously the choice would go to the one who belongs to our community.

Further, while you may be willing to marry (if not yet married already) a person chosen by your parents, there are people who would like to choose their own soulmate. There is nothing wrong in any approach.

The wrong is killing some one. What was the sin of the young couple? If the girl was a widow, what action the parents and the so called society had taken to remarry her?

Killing just can't be justified.

jitendershooda
May 17th, 2008, 02:52 PM
The wrong is killing some one. What was the sin of the young couple? If the girl was a widow, what action the parents and the so called society had taken to remarry her?

Killing just can't be justified.

I dont think Uncle ji that girl was a widow ... she was a divorcee and perhaps becse even after marriage they were involved .... just to keep this to your info.

navingulia
May 17th, 2008, 06:34 PM
1. To each one, his own. But if possible please dont kill.
2. I am not justifying or unjustifying any one. I am only saying 'who am I to justify/unjustify anyone else's act?'

ranjitjat
May 17th, 2008, 10:29 PM
No honour in Killing. The name given is by Media.
Gang Killing, Dowry death-sex crime,rape and murders
are crime against humanity.- this is disgrace.
Do Not kill your own blood, your family

Haryana’s dishonour
Black spot of the face of Jatsamaj and India
Honour killings are a blot on the country

THE sickening regularity with which honour killings continue unabated in Haryana is a matter of shame and disgrace. The manner in which a Jat family killed their daughter, 20-year-old Sunita, and her lover Jasbir in Balla village in Karnal district needs to be condemned in the strongest possible terms. In a modern society, wedded to liberal values and democratic ethos, boys and girls falling in love cannot be prevented from doing so. While falling in love is not a crime, killing a couple is the most heinous crime. Television visuals showing Sunita’s parents and villagers justifying the murders speak volumes about the insensitivity of the people concerned. They have fixed death as the price for defying social codes based on caste and community affiliations. This is a challenge to the administration by a society that is least bothered about the established system of governance and the rule of law. Honour killings can be checked only if the culprits are given the severest punishment.

Even though such incidents are on the rise in Haryana, Punjab and Uttar Pradesh, the state governments have done little to check the menace. Surprisingly, no such category of crime exists in government records. Such crimes are mostly classified under the category of general crimes. Moreover, most cases go unreported. Even otherwise, FIRs are not filed and postmortem not conducted. The rate of acquittals is also very high in such cases. Even when couples attempt marriage under the Special Marriage Act, as in Uttar Pradesh, most applications are rejected on grounds of procedural lapses.

Political parties in most states have failed to challenge the fatwas issued by caste panchayats. These outfits are an anathema and must be banned because their decisions militate against constitutional rights. There is need for policy intervention at various levels, including a commitment by all political parties to uphold the right to choose one’s own spouse. Relevant changes in the laws to help courts take suo motu notice of honour killings and take action against the culprits have become imperative.

saranrabar
May 19th, 2008, 02:23 AM
Hummmm.... Its so very true!! :)

Lil offtopic, I find ur name lil strange, how do ya spell it?

Ok, now lets get back to the topic!...
Hummmm.... Its so very true!! :)

Lil offtopic, I find ur name lil strange, how do ya spell it?

Ok, now lets get back to the topic!...

Quote:
Originally Posted by saranrabar http://www.jatland.com/forums/images/kirsch/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?p=169582#post169582)
"All Desirable things in life are either banned, illegal, expensive, fattening or married to someone else!"


__________________
"All Desirable things in life are either banned, illegal, expensive, fattening or married to someone else!" ~ जीत ताखर

With all due respect, I should have referenced properly from where I lifted the nice quotation of yours. Accept my apology for the careless omission.

I wanted to resist answering your “lil off topic”, but may be it is a good deed to go on and respond to it? So, for the “strange name spelling”, I am aware of what you may want to allude to. Probably you wish to refer to the husband of Apsarash? The next time you go to Sikar, Rajastan, you may want to pay a small attention to what variety of “roman character” spellings are used for various gotra by the spectrum between the highly educated concerned with spellings and the modest illiterate member of the most modest village who even do not know what spelling means. Do the same amongst all Indian diaspora. Further, you may also want to police or make fun of the spellings of all cow-pens, not only Jats but include Rajputs and Gurjars for good measure.

Having said that, please entertain us with your thoughtful posts about the main subject. Thanks.

deepshi
May 19th, 2008, 04:34 PM
didnt go thru all of the post-but tempted to comment ..
guys...LIVE N LET LIVE..its a short life to be small!

wel,there r some things of concern-bilogically i mean, for not marryin in relationships!

but rest is all immaterial
all those friggin "heads of society" shud better cover up their acts first..
will write more later...

watch out for this space;)

addy
May 19th, 2008, 08:24 PM
Can even a single male parpatrator resposible for this most gruesome and inhuman act keep a hand on his heart and claim that he never oggled at the opposite sex irrespective of the cast, creed or colour..???
You bet, NONE & NEVER..!!

..who are these people??..Just a b@#$%y bunch of self proclaimed thekedaars of the society whose only claim to (de)fame is to be involved in such ghastardly acts in the garb of carrying the flag of the so called Kaum ki Ijjat..We are better left without them....:mad:

vijay
May 20th, 2008, 02:03 AM
With all due respect, I should have referenced properly from where I lifted the nice quotation of yours. Accept my apology for the careless omission.

I wanted to resist answering your “lil off topic”, but may be it is a good deed to go on and respond to it? So, for the “strange name spelling”, I am aware of what you may want to allude to. Probably you wish to refer to the husband of Apsarash? The next time you go to Sikar, Rajastan, you may want to pay a small attention to what variety of “roman character” spellings are used for various gotra by the spectrum between the highly educated concerned with spellings and the modest illiterate member of the most modest village who even do not know what spelling means. Do the same amongst all Indian diaspora. Further, you may also want to police or make fun of the spellings of all cow-pens, not only Jats but include Rajputs and Gurjars for good measure.

Having said that, please entertain us with your thoughtful posts about the main subject. Thanks.

Just like you i tried hard to resist myself from commenting here but at last i convinced myself that it's not that bad to respond here :) And the places you mentioned .... like Sikar ... Rajasthan ... provoked me further.

I just liked the way you responded towards the people who just pay attention towards the fact that who is posting instead of what is being posted.

All said .... for gud or bad :)

Maniisha
May 20th, 2008, 12:54 PM
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2008/20080510/main2.htm

Honour Killing
Family strangles daughter, lover in Haryana


Balla (Karnal), May 9
In yet another incident of honour killing in Haryana, a Jat family allegedly strangled its daughter, who was pregnant, and a local youth from the same community to death early this morning.
..........

The police said for the past six months both had taken shelter at the residence of Jasbir’s sister Neelam in Machhroli village near Panipat.

Karnal district police chief A.S. Chawla confirmed that the girl’s family was involved in this heinous crime. “A case of murder and attempt to destroy evidence has been registered against 29 persons and a few have been rounded up for interrogation,” he said.

The honor killings as the name says is not justified act of the so called civilized society. I think we should honor our parents, but if some one fails to follow that duty then they should be simply left off without any bother about them. Here everyone is born individually so they also have got the right to lead their own life so it is really a barbarian act if you say you can kill others for the sake of your respect and prestige. I think people involved in such acts should be severely punished so that they don't dare to do that again with any one else.

naveenbazad
May 20th, 2008, 07:36 PM
i think Manisha comments sums all the things ....
so when any body is parents amongst us then we shd not deal in that severe way and this propaganda shd be carried further on and all those who have time they can tell others also .. provided they r able to listen to u

whoever wants to write plz read all above threads and u can find ur things said above

cooljat
May 20th, 2008, 11:03 PM
It carves nothing but SMILE [:)] on my face and I feel pity for the prof. ! ;):p

Sorry for goin offtopic again...but from now on not again! :cool:

Rock on
Jit



I just liked the way you responded towards the people who just pay attention towards the fact that who is posting instead of what is being posted.
All said .... for gud or bad :)

raj_rathee
May 21st, 2008, 11:54 AM
Funny thing is we ourselves contribute to polarization of our society
and establishment of its 'de facto standards' along various lines, and then feign shock when some extreme steps like this are taken.

Anyone here who is remotely tuned in to our society knows very well how we react to such issues around caste/tribe, infidelity and "izzat-aabroo" of our women and the like. I mean heck, if folks here had any control they'd probably hang us beef eaters for going against their ideas of 'right' and 'normal'. Imagine now having our girls 'mess around' or go against the percieved family 'izzat/honor'!

I am sure you all can imagine what goes on in the community...the taunts,
the comments, the lifelong stigma attached to the family and the dimmed
prospects for other family members. Whether you like it or not, the truth
is that 'honour' really is at stake here. That is the ground reality.
I'll contend here that if you actually go to the village or that local community
where these events happen, people will firmly back and support such
actions to 'save family honor'. Such cases aren't all that alien to us. There
are plenty more where this came from.

We can keep up with this 'holier than thou' venting here...but if we
hope to change we'll all need to eat some beef...if you know what I mean. :eek:

pnauhwar21
May 21st, 2008, 12:45 PM
We can keep up with this 'holier than thou' venting here...but if we
hope to change we'll all need to eat some beef...if you know what I mean. :eek:

Or we can kill the beef eaters to save our honour!! Practically though either way nothing will change..it will just be another headline and more humans will take birth with different thinking, different mind repeating same mistakes in every generation n every yug..this is the crux of life as I have understood :rolleyes:

jitendershooda
May 21st, 2008, 06:09 PM
http://in.jagran.yahoo.com/news/local/delhi/4_3_4463267_1.html

पश्चिमी दिल्ली, जागरण संवाददाता : उतरप्रदेश के बड़ौत गांव से तीन माह से लापता प्रेमी जोड़े की हत्या के आरोप में प्रेमिका के जीजा संजय को द्वारका पुलिस ने गिरफ्तार कर लिया है। प्रेमिका के चाचा देवेंद्र ने भी दोनों की हत्या में संजय का साथ दिया था। घटना के बाद से देवेंद्र फरार है व पुलिस उसकी तलाश कर रही है।
द्वारका सेक्टर 16 के समीप से जा रहे नजफगढ़ नाले में 13 मई की सुबह एक बोरी में राजकुमार और गीता (20) की लाश मिली थी। दोनों उत्तर प्रदेश के बागपत बड़ौत गांव के निवासी थे। पुलिस टीम को जांच के दौरान लड़के के परिजनों से जानकारी मिली कि तीन महीने पहले दोनों शादी के मकसद से घर से भाग गए थे। गीता के परिवार वालों ने शादी पर आपत्ति जताई थी व राजकुमार के घर वाले भी दोनों के एक ही गोत्र के होने पर शादी करने को तैयार नहीं हुए थे। कुछ दिनों बाद गीता के परिवार वालों ने उन्हें खोज लिया व यह कहकर घर बुलाया कि दोनों की शादी करवा देंगे। घर पहुंचने पर गीता के जीजा संजय और चाचा देवेंद्र ने दोनों की पीट-पीटकर हत्या कर दी और शव को बोरे में डालकर नजफगढ़ नाले में फेंक दिया। द्वारका थाना पुलिस ने आरोपी संजय को गिरफ्तार कर लिया है। जबकि देवेंद्र फिलहाल पुलिस गिरफ्त से फरार है। पुलिस गीता के परिवार वालों की भी मामले में संलिप्त होने की जांच रही है।

brahmtewatia
May 21st, 2008, 06:20 PM
"To err is human, to forgive is Divine"
a JAT would interpret it as...
"To err is human, to forgive is not my policy"

For sure nobody would accept the acts of the boy and girl in our society. At the same time nobody would even accept the heinous crime of their killings. Remember, no one is above the law.


Or we can kill the beef eaters to save our honour!! Practically though either way nothing will change..it will just be another headline and more humans will take birth with different thinking, different mind repeating same mistakes in every generation n every yug..this is the crux of life as I have understood :rolleyes:

Well said Prashant Nauhwar...thts a reality !!!

crsnadar
May 23rd, 2008, 01:36 AM
No body takes such extreme dicision of killing their kids just for some pride. They are not fool.

There would definitely be something wrong about sameGOTRA marriages.

Either, Firstly the two must have better understanding of Society & Culture
or
if the fools don't have, then at least they must have power to fight against the world.

rocker88
May 23rd, 2008, 03:37 PM
Killing is not the solution....
Education & strong bonds with your children will help..

brahmtewatia
May 23rd, 2008, 03:41 PM
शाबाश... चलो फिर से रामायण गाते हैं :D:rock

jitendershooda
May 23rd, 2008, 06:16 PM
http://www.bhaskar.com/2008/05/20/0805201006_lovers_surrendered.html

चरखी दादरी. गांव तिवाला से एक माह पूर्व फरार हुए एक प्रेमी युगल ने सोमवार को न्यायालय में आत्मसमर्पण कर दिया। न्यायालय ने लड़की को नारी निकेतन भेज दिया, वहीं युवक को रिमांड पर पुलिस को सौंप दिया।
गांव तिवाला के राजाराम नामक व्यक्ति ने पुलिस में दी शिकायत में गांव के ही सुनील नामक युवक पर उसकी नाबालिग लड़की को बहला फुसलाकर भगाने का आरोप लगाया था। पुलिस ने 15 अप्रैल को युवक के खिलाफ मामला दर्ज करके प्रेमी युगल की तलाश शुरू कर दी थी।
प्रेमी युगल ने सोमवार को न्यायाधीश आरके मेहता की अदालत में आत्मसमर्पण कर दिया। लड़की ने न्यायालय में दिए बयान में परिजनों के साथ नहीं जाने की बात कही, जिस पर लड़की को नारी निकेतन करनाल भेजने का आदेश दिया। वही युवक सुनील को पांच दिन के रिमांड पर सदर पुलिस को सौंप दिया। प्रेमी युगल के मिलने से पुलिस ने राहत की सांस ली है।

ritu
May 24th, 2008, 01:17 AM
father killed his daughter to save his honour or daughters honour is not clear
http://www.hindustantimes.com/StoryPage/StoryPage.aspx?id=6524366d-fd21-48c7-92f7-392edf387a74&ParentID=2b6bfecb-727e-4300-8fdd-79fb2a2d6a0a&&Headline=Honour+killing+a+possibility%3a+Police

spdeshwal
May 24th, 2008, 08:23 AM
Ritu ji, I read in one of the news paper that Rajesh Talwar, father of the girl was himself involved in an illicit relation with a women and the servant was blackmailing him. Taking advantage of that the servant developed relationship with the girl. He first killed the servant on terrace and than his daughter. His wife helped him in committing this heinous crime.

ranjitjat
May 24th, 2008, 09:04 PM
This is full story of other double murder-double honour killing.
Mahaghor Kalyug.


Arushi murder case
Father arrested


Noida, May 23
The Noida police today arrested dental surgeon Dr Rajesh Talwar, who lives in L-32 in Sector 25, Jal Vayu Vihar, Noida, for allegedly murdering his 14-year-old comely daughter Arushi and domestic help Hem Raj on the night of May 15 because they knew about his extra-marital affair and the victims themselves shared a close relationship. Talwar was later remanded to judicial custody for 14 days.

There have been reports that Nupur, wife of Talwar, also a dentist, and his doctor colleague Anita Durrani have been detained.

Addressing a press conference in the Noida police control room, IG, Police Range, Gurdarshan Singh said Dr Rajesh Talwar and Dr Nupur Talwar, the parents of Arushi, were taken to police station today, where Dr Rajesh Talwar was formally arrested for the twin murders on the basis of evidence, including the “strenuous cover-up” attempts by the dentist. Since the day of Arushi’s murder, the Talwars had been behaving in a curious way. “In a case like this, where there are no eyewitnesses, the crime has to be proved on the basis of circumstantial evidence,” the IG said.

On the morning of May 16, Dr Talwar had first called and informed some of his neighbours and friends about the murder of his daughter. It was around 7 am the same day that he informed the police.

The IG, who was accompanied by DIG, Meerut Range, P.C. Meena and Noida SSP A. Satish Ganesh at the press conference, said Dr Rajesh was having an extra marital affair. His daughter and domestic help Hem Raj were aware of his affair. Hem Raj had often talked about it to his friends in the colony and outside, which Dr Talwar did not like. Arushi had been opposing the affair of her father. Hem Raj had often told his friends that his life was in danger.

It seems Arushi and Hem Raj often used to discuss the affair of Dr Talwar and this over the time had brought the two close to each other, which Dr Talwar did not like. The police did not rule out the involvement of Arushi’s mother, Dr Nupur Talwar, in the sordid crime.

Dr Rajesh Talwar had gone out at 9-30 pm on May 15 and when he returned around 11 pm, he found Arushi and Hemraj very “close to each other”. IG Gurdarshan Singh said it was an “objectionable condition” and not a compromising position, though. This had apparently offended Dr Talwar, who took Hem Raj to the terrace on the pretext of talking to him and killed him. He washed his hands with the cooler water, came down and had a few pegs of whisky. Then he killed his daughter in the same manner as he murdered Hem Raj — first hitting her on the head with a heavy object, possibly a hammer, and than slitting her throat with a knife.

At 6 am the next day, Dr Rajesh called some friends and neighbours and discussed the matter with them and apparently decided as to what to tell the police. The police was informed around 7 am. The IG said from the very beginning there had been certain facts that had baffled the police. The couple were not prompt in informing the police. And when Dr Talwar went to the police station and lodged an FIR naming Hem Raj as the accused, he told the police in an emotional way to “hurry up, go after Hem Raj and nab him, else he would flee”.

Another reason for suspecting the Talwars was that they chose to dump Arushi’s mattress on neighbour’s terrace. When the policemen enquired about the terrace, he angrily told them it was just a terrace and they should not waste their time there unnecessarily. Since the same stairs were serving two flats, Dr Talwar took the blood-soaked mattress from Arushi’s bedroom and dumped it at the terrace of the neighbours, because on his own house terrace the body of Hem Raj was lying.

The IG said it was impossible that a man, who goes to bed at 11 pm, would not be disturbed if he heard some noise in the night. Talwar’s flat had a three-tier security — wooden door, bed room door and a lobby door. No killer could come from outside. At 12 pm, Dr Talwar had talked to a friend on phone and by 1 pm, the time of murder, the IG said he was sound asleep. The distance between the rooms of Dr Talwar and Arushi, where they slept, was not more that 6 ft and even if some body else had killed the girl, the parents not hearing any noise or commotion at all would be unbelieving.

“Talwar could not have been in sound sleep when the murder took place as he was talking on phone till 12 midnight. The area is peaceful and there is no traffic. So the slightest activity should have woken them up. It is not possible that a murder takes place in the room right next to theirs and they did not hear anything”, the IG said.

Third, no outsider could close the stairs door and lock it from outside which was opened by the maid in the morning after Dr Nupur Talwar had thrown the keys out.

Fourth, suspicion were also raised because efforts were made to hid Hem Raj’s body. “The lid of the cooler was put on the body so that nobody could spot it and the door to the terrace was locked. Any killer who could have come would not bother to close the door and lock it,” the IG said.

IG Gurdarshan Singh said the weapon of murder had not been recovered. “We shall take the accused on remand and find out the weapon and other details.” He said the police would keep the media informed of the further developments in the case.

dr_gulia
May 25th, 2008, 09:40 AM
I am joining the issue now only. But it is really unfortunate for the society especially Jats. The act of killing in the name of honour is henious and it may be atamasha for others including media. Think of the family and its victim. Why the people change with time, let love blossom, To lOve some one is not crime even if it happens to be with in same Gotra or village. Ask Any One including Bujurg( elderlY) with do they treat all young women ( girls and newly wed) with the due respect: I really doubt for the majority???. Who or the Panchayat is to decide about the private life of the two consenting adult. Looks the Taus dont have better thing to do...... Our society is already burdened with so many socual evils ... like infanticide, lack of education especially vocational, dowry, poverty.... Why dont we educate our youth in modern education.... Like English Speaking>>> so that they join mainstream... there are opportunities in Retail Call Centre>>>. Look for Sun, Dont Try to Talbanise the society..... Kya ab se pehle even in village extra pre maritial affair nahin hote the. although I am not subscruiing that but we must not get into private life of others. LIVE And LET OTHERS LIVE

prashantacmet
May 25th, 2008, 06:19 PM
I am joining the issue now only. But it is really unfortunate for the society especially Jats. The act of killing in the name of honour is henious and it may be atamasha for others including media. Think of the family and its victim. Why the people change with time, let love blossom, To lOve some one is not crime even if it happens to be with in same Gotra or village. Ask Any One including Bujurg( elderlY) with do they treat all young women ( girls and newly wed) with the due respect: I really doubt for the majority???. Who or the Panchayat is to decide about the private life of the two consenting adult. Looks the Taus dont have better thing to do...... Our society is already burdened with so many socual evils ... like infanticide, lack of education especially vocational, dowry, poverty.... Why dont we educate our youth in modern education.... Like English Speaking>>> so that they join mainstream... there are opportunities in Retail Call Centre>>>. Look for Sun, Dont Try to Talbanise the society..... Kya ab se pehle even in village extra pre maritial affair nahin hote the. although I am not subscruiing that but we must not get into private life of others. LIVE And LET OTHERS LIVE

OK sir...let us spare all restrictions..let us flourish the love....u are right..what is this gotra, caste...all crap.....who are the elders to impose such social norms on us...whether a person marry to a girl/boy of its own village or gotra..or his/her cousin or his/her real sister/brother too...it all individual affair, elders/parents have nothing to do with it..these idiots buddhhe should be hanged or shot dead.....hain na sir ji....kitne uttam vichar hai aapke....aap jaisse logon ki iss samaaj ko sakht jaroorat hai.....kaha hai aape charan...aap jarror jaat samaaj main revolution laayenge.....arree sabhi jatlanders kuch seekho inse.....:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

jitendershooda
June 11th, 2008, 09:02 PM
सोनीपत. गन्नौर के नमस्ते चौक के सुनील (25) ने अपनी प्रेमिका ऊषा (14) के साथ सल्फास निगल लिया। इसके बाद फोन पर सुनील ने इसकी सूचना अपने भाई को दी। परिजन दोनों को रात 2.10 बजे सोनीपत अस्पताल ले गए, जहां डॉक्टरों ने ऊषा को मृत घोषित कर दिया, जबकि सुनील की तबीयत में निरंतर सुधार हो रहा है। पोस्टमार्टम के बाद ऊषा का शव परिजनों को सौंप दिया गया।
तीन भाइयों में सबसे छोटा सुनील बिजली मैकेनिक है। गांव के ही कुम्हार कन्हैया की छोटी बेटी ऊषा से उसका प्रेम प्रसंग चल रहा था। रात को वह बिना किसी को बताए घर से कहीं चली गई। सुनील की सूचना पर बड़ा भाई जयभगवान परिजनों के साथ खेतों की ओर भागे, जहां सुनील और ऊषा बेसुध पड़े थे। उन्होंने ऊषा के परिजनों को भी सूचना दी।
जयभगवान का कहना है कि दोनों के प्रेम प्रसंग की जानकारी उसे नहीं थी। दोनों ने सल्फास क्यों खाया, इसका खुलासा नहीं हो सका है। ऊषा की मां विमला ने बताया कि वह ऊषा की हरकतों से परेशान थी। सोमवार को ताले में बंद होने के बावजूद भी वह बाहर कैसे निकल गई। विमला के बयान पर पुलिस ने सुनील के खिलाफ ऊषा को धोखे से जहरीला पदार्थ खाने का मामला दर्ज किया है।

Ek aur Gaon Gaon prem prasang .... manne itne sare case dekh ke nue lage se

1) ya to yo prem rog eebe ghana badh gya hai ....
2) Ya pher agar pahele bhi ye tha to log sirf svadon tak seemit rahete they aur aaj walo mein fairness hai usko aage tak le jane ki ....

Cant say.

ranjitjat
June 12th, 2008, 12:09 AM
http://www.bhaskar.com/2008/05/20/0805201006_lovers_surrendered.html

चरखी दादरी. गांव तिवाला से एक माह पूर्व फरार हुए एक प्रेमी युगल ने सोमवार को न्यायालय में आत्मसमर्पण कर दिया। न्यायालय ने लड़की को नारी निकेतन भेज दिया, वहीं युवक को रिमांड पर पुलिस को सौंप दिया।
गांव तिवाला के राजाराम नामक व्यक्ति ने पुलिस में दी शिकायत में गांव के ही सुनील नामक युवक पर उसकी नाबालिग लड़की को बहला फुसलाकर भगाने का आरोप लगाया था। पुलिस ने 15 अप्रैल को युवक के खिलाफ मामला दर्ज करके प्रेमी युगल की तलाश शुरू कर दी थी।
प्रेमी युगल ने सोमवार को न्यायाधीश आरके मेहता की अदालत में आत्मसमर्पण कर दिया। लड़की ने न्यायालय में दिए बयान में परिजनों के साथ नहीं जाने की बात कही, जिस पर लड़की को नारी निकेतन करनाल भेजने का आदेश दिया। वही युवक सुनील को पांच दिन के रिमांड पर सदर पुलिस को सौंप दिया। प्रेमी युगल के मिलने से पुलिस ने राहत की सांस ली है।

dear Jitnder
yah loveriya ki maliriya ki tarah
naye bimari chale hae.

gaon ky gaon aur Gotar ki
Gotar mae shadi 20 yrs pahle
koe soch bhi nahi sakta tha.
Abhi family values kam ho gaye

Maan- Maryada nahi rahi.

not far from this village Tiwala.
last year ya 2006 mae

aak bahut hi daradnak ghatna huye.
8 class mae padhne wali 2 sisters ny.
Gaon ky padosi ladke ko Kulhadi sy
kat dala- reason - usne Gaon ki gaon mae
shadi karne ya bhagne sy inkar kar diya.

3 young life ka dukhad aanat.
dono ladkiya abhi Bhiwani jail mae han
Jailers ki havas ki sikar ban rahi han.
sari umar crime ki jindgi sahan karne hogi.
daily yah ghatna ho rahe han.
samaj koe lesson nahi lae raha hae
freedom with family values
is the need of the hour

jitendershooda
June 12th, 2008, 02:34 PM
dear Jitnder
yah loveriya ki maliriya ki tarah
naye bimari chale hae.

gaon ky gaon aur Gotar ki
Gotar mae shadi 20 yrs pahle
koe soch bhi nahi sakta tha.
Abhi family values kam ho gaye

Maan- Maryada nahi rahi.


3 young life ka dukhad aanat.
dono ladkiya abhi Bhiwani jail mae han
Jailers ki havas ki sikar ban rahi han.
sari umar crime ki jindgi sahan karne hogi.
daily yah ghatna ho rahe han.
samaj koe lesson nahi lae raha hae
freedom with family values
is the need of the hour

Dharampal ji, Acha likhya hai aapne.

raka
June 12th, 2008, 03:06 PM
ek misaal sain ak "goti bhai baki sab ashnai" par eb to iss nai piddi n aapne gotar m bi ashnai bana di.gaam ki gaam m ishq kare sain, jib us chhori ka bayaah ho ja sain to uske susral m jana par ja to ure uski sansu n mausi ka neg de sain ar us chhori n bebey ka,yo to kasuta rewaj aa gaya bahan bana ka .
mare gaam ka chhora raju ek chamar ki chhori galey ishq kare karta, kuchh din pichhey uss chamar ki chhori ka bayaah ho gaya. ek din m aur wo chhora raju bus stand p khare thhe us chhore n wa chamari bus m baithhi dikh gi, wo uske dhore ja k seat p baithh gaya , ittne m uss chamari ka bateu aa gaya, chamari boli bhai raju seat chhodiye tere jijaji aa gaye. eb raju chhota sa muuhh le k tale uttar aaya, mane badi hansi aayi makha aaja jijaji k saaley, bebey ta mil aaya k.uss chhore ka bool nahi patya.

ysjabp
June 12th, 2008, 05:36 PM
I am joining the issue now only. But it is really unfortunate for the society especially Jats. The act of killing in the name of honour is henious and it may be atamasha for others including media. Think of the family and its victim. Why the people change with time, let love blossom, To lOve some one is not crime even if it happens to be with in same Gotra or village. Ask Any One including Bujurg( elderlY) with do they treat all young women ( girls and newly wed) with the due respect: I really doubt for the majority???. Who or the Panchayat is to decide about the private life of the two consenting adult. Looks the Taus dont have better thing to do...... Our society is already burdened with so many socual evils ... like infanticide, lack of education especially vocational, dowry, poverty.... Why dont we educate our youth in modern education.... Like English Speaking>>> so that they join mainstream... there are opportunities in Retail Call Centre>>>. Look for Sun, Dont Try to Talbanise the society..... Kya ab se pehle even in village extra pre maritial affair nahin hote the. although I am not subscruiing that but we must not get into private life of others. LIVE And LET OTHERS LIVE

Aapke kahne ka matlab ki hum log vapas JUNGLE YUG KI TARAF LAUT JAYE
HAMARE PURVAJO NE YE PRATHA ISLIYE SHURU KI THI KI SAMAJ ME VYABHICHAR NA PHILE. AUR AAP CHAHTE HE KI SUB KHULA KHELO KOI MRYADA SHARM LAAJ NAHI.

dkumars
June 12th, 2008, 06:41 PM
I am joining the issue now only. But it is really unfortunate for the society especially Jats. The act of killing in the name of honour is henious and it may be atamasha for others including media. Think of the family and its victim. Why the people change with time, let love blossom, To lOve some one is not crime even if it happens to be with in same Gotra or village. Ask Any One including Bujurg( elderlY) with do they treat all young women ( girls and newly wed) with the due respect: I really doubt for the majority???. Who or the Panchayat is to decide about the private life of the two consenting adult. Looks the Taus dont have better thing to do...... Our society is already burdened with so many socual evils ... like infanticide, lack of education especially vocational, dowry, poverty.... Why dont we educate our youth in modern education.... Like English Speaking>>> so that they join mainstream... there are opportunities in Retail Call Centre>>>. Look for Sun, Dont Try to Talbanise the society..... Kya ab se pehle even in village extra pre maritial affair nahin hote the. although I am not subscruiing that but we must not get into private life of others. LIVE And LET OTHERS LIVE


Afsoos aapki post ko samjha nahi gaya, shayad. Dev bhai saahb... Jisne maarne hai we maarenge jisne bachaane hai we bachaavenge. Chaalen do isnei jyukar chaale hai. Jisne jo karna hai kare e ga.
Waise mein naa support mein hoon na against. Likhte achha hai aap :)

Ek aur information... South india mein ladki ki shaadi uske sagge mama se kar dete hai .. pehle jyada thi abb kam ho gayi hai... shayad woh loh ****** honge... Jat hi ek samjhdaar koum hai auro ki toh bass .....
Musalmaano mein bhi aisi shaadiya hoti hai ... scientifically bhi dekhe toh bahut raaz kiya hai yaha india mein .. matlab sharirik disorders and all m talking abt. Waise abb log unko bhi *** kehenge.

Best dharam : Hindu
Best Jaati : Jat
Best country : Opportunity nahi milli toh india milli toh dikhaave ke liye india.

mukeshkumar007
June 13th, 2008, 12:43 PM
सोनीपत. गन्नौर के नमस्ते चौक के सुनील (25) ने अपनी प्रेमिका ऊषा (14) के साथ सल्फास निगल लिया। इसके बाद फोन पर सुनील ने इसकी सूचना अपने भाई को दी। परिजन दोनों को रात 2.10 बजे सोनीपत अस्पताल ले गए, जहां डॉक्टरों ने ऊषा को मृत घोषित कर दिया, जबकि सुनील की तबीयत में निरंतर सुधार हो रहा है। पोस्टमार्टम के बाद ऊषा का शव परिजनों को सौंप दिया गया।
तीन भाइयों में सबसे छोटा सुनील बिजली मैकेनिक है। गांव के ही कुम्हार कन्हैया की छोटी बेटी ऊषा से उसका प्रेम प्रसंग चल रहा था। रात को वह बिना किसी को बताए घर से कहीं चली गई। सुनील की सूचना पर बड़ा भाई जयभगवान परिजनों के साथ खेतों की ओर भागे, जहां सुनील और ऊषा बेसुध पड़े थे। उन्होंने ऊषा के परिजनों को भी सूचना दी।
जयभगवान का कहना है कि दोनों के प्रेम प्रसंग की जानकारी उसे नहीं थी। दोनों ने सल्फास क्यों खाया, इसका खुलासा नहीं हो सका है। ऊषा की मां विमला ने बताया कि वह ऊषा की हरकतों से परेशान थी। सोमवार को ताले में बंद होने के बावजूद भी वह बाहर कैसे निकल गई। विमला के बयान पर पुलिस ने सुनील के खिलाफ ऊषा को धोखे से जहरीला पदार्थ खाने का मामला दर्ज किया है।

.

Mahesh Bhatt Imran Hasmi ke sath ek aur film banan ki sochrya hai.. lakin keh reha tha ki kehani nai milri use !! Bhaishab usne yo thread padan ka nyoota de do ek be :D