PDA

View Full Version : Do we actually need NCR (National Capital Region)



skadian123
August 1st, 2008, 10:33 PM
NCR (National Capital Region) is a term which is awidely used today especially in and around Delhi.

Through the medium of this thread would like to discuss the relevance and importance of these (NCR and NCT) with specific reference to the interests of the local communities of these areas especially the Jats.

The genesis of the National Capital Region lies in the recommendations of the first Master Plan for Delhi (MPD) notified in 1962 wherein, a broad area consisting of the Union Territory of Delhi and a few ring towns around it was conceived for being developed as a metropolitan region to reduce the population pressure on Delhi.


The unprecedented growth of population especially during the post independence years and the consequent haphazard developments had been putting severe pressures on the infrastructure of Delhi. Therefore, it was suggested through various planning exercises beginning from 1956, that serious consideration should be given for a planned decentralization to outer areas and even outside the Delhi Region. The Draft Master Plan for Delhi (1960) had reiterated this idea and the final Master Plan for Delhi (MPD-1962) for the perspective year 1981 recognized the need for planning Delhi in its regional context. The Master Plan had not only defined the composition of the National Capital Region but had also recommended the setting up of a Statutory National Capital Region Planning Board and development of the region in accordance with a Regional Plan.

skadian123
August 1st, 2008, 10:34 PM
The composition of NCR which includes large chunks of land of the states, Rajasthan, UP and Haryana (being the biggest land contributor to the NCR) is as follows:

skadian123
August 1st, 2008, 10:54 PM
NCT Delhi 1,483 sq km
Haryana 13,413 sq km
Rajasthan 4,493 sq km
Uttar Pradesh 10,853 sq km.
Total 30,242 sq km.

My question to one and all here is Do we (local communities) actually require the NCR. Are we not being used as a dustbin by the Central/Delhi government to put all the extra and unwanted population load on us. There are people amongst us who cite the reason for agreeing with the concept of NCR as 'Development'. Haryana earlier also with agriculture being the prime occupation of its people topped the list of High Per Capita Income states. To this I would like to ask - why not development for the local communities only without the influx of outside population. Let us not forget that all the citizens of the country have a right over the National Capital which they cannot claim over Haryana - which is very much in line with the concept of Domicile.


If much of our state which as it is, is smaller than Rajasthan and UP comes under the NCR what are we left with. The very purpose why the people of this state fought for statehood in the 1960's gets defeated. We wanted a separate state to secure our unique culture, heritage and to meet the aspirations of the local communities. It would not be wrong to comment that the HUMONGOUS/LARGE SCALE influx of outsiders into our state is another form of 'Ethnic Cleansing' where the local population is being turned into a minority stakeholder. Our land is being used to build homes, offices, factories for outsiders. Some so called forward looking people would counter this by the oft repeated argument- it is the fault of the local communities to not keep ahead in terms of education and awareness. My only suggestion here would be to stop playing the blame game and blaming the community. Instead, the need of the hour is to safeguard whatever little land and other resources we (the community) are left with.

We will not serve our land on a platter to outsiders. We have a separate and unique identity just like the Maharashtrians and the Bengalis. By agreeing to give away our key towns like Jhajjar, Rohtak, Panipat, Sonipat etc, of course besides Gurgaon and Faridabad to the NCR, we will lose not only our land but also our very identity which is so close to our hearts. It is this very identity that binds us together as a community and it is this very reason why we are members of Jatland and not some Bihariland or Bengaliland.

The shape of the things to come can be gauged from the recent demand of the CM of Delhi demanding that the entire NCR should come under the jurisdiction of the Delhi High Court. I came across a few people who said it would be convenient for the people. My answer to this would be why can't we in that case have High Court benches in Rohtak if convenience of the people is the focus area.

Everything said and done, our state politicians have sold out our state to the Central Government since the time of inception of the NCR. It is upto us to correct this past wrong at least till the time, time permits us because very soon the entire 'small' state of Haryana will be 'Greater Delhi' ruled by a Bihari CM with outside population dominating in every sphere of life...

shweta123
August 2nd, 2008, 11:11 AM
If all the citizens keep exercising their so called right over the National Capital and all the states refrain the influx of outside population, then how long do you think this can go without hampering the normal ways of life? Do you know what it means practically?

It’s a normal thing now to see all the Delhi roads are jam packed, many of the residents facing the problem of acute water shortages, sewage & drainage chaos, rents for accommodations shooting up each day and bla bla ……… Delhi has loads of tribulations and issues to cater to owing to over burden on its resources, and in this wake of events if what you opine is implemented then surely Delhi will come to a standstill soon. Come on ! How can one close the eyes to the national interest and at the same time be ready to take a share of the national bread in case you find it tasty at any point of time!

Its okay that the States must ensure their residents’ wellbeing but it should not be at the cost of denying a helping hand to the already overburdened Capital. In this era of globalization and mitigating of the boundary lines, its not at all doable to turn the backs when it comes to sharing the burden of development.

Its agreeable that our country is suffering from the consequences of an unplanned and uneven development spree, but this kind of thinking will make the scene more morbid.

sumitsehrawat
August 2nd, 2008, 03:06 PM
Sunil, just need to ask you one thing... Do you want Delhi/Haryana/Rajasthan etc etc to be separate 'countries'?

skadian123
August 2nd, 2008, 08:42 PM
First of all would like to thank Shweta and Sumit for posting their replies to the thread.

Shweta, you rightly said that if all the states start thinking of restricting entry, things would be morbid. No doubt about it. However, the point remains, are we not being over patriotic by serving our land on a platter to the outsiders whose numbers are increasing at an alarming pace in the NCR especially Haryana. Like all states, even we have limited resources in terms of land, business opportunities, jobs etc. If this influx is uncontrolled and unplanned, the locals would not be left with many options even to exist. Is it necessary that the majority of the migratory population has to be settled in and around Delhi. Why does not the government create opportunities on a wider scale in tier 2/3 towns and cities of states like MP, Bihar, Chhatisgarh, etc. There is a capacity to which a land can withstand the burden of population pressure. Developing NCR may be a temporary solution but certainly not a permanent one. Today Delhi is over congested, tomorrow with such large scale migration continuing, NCR especially Haryana is going to be over-burdened. What next??

Thinking about the country is good, but as they rightly say, charity begins at home. If we don't care for our state and its people, please don't expect the Biharis or Bengalis to come from outside and care for our local aspirations/rights. It is already a question of now or never and if we still donot wake up to the reality, the 'now' from the 'now or never' will disappear forever.

Sumit, Haryana/Rajasthan and UP are not separate countries, but states with communities having a rich past and a bright future (people's aspirations). We would be destroying both, the past and the future if we do not stop this wide-scale and haphazard influx that is taking place at present. We need not stop inter-state movement of people completely, but yes there needs to be a system of checks and control so that the local communities are not swamped and the limited opportunities (taking into consideration their educational background and awareness) available go to them, they being the sons of the soil.

We do feel proud to be Indians but at the same time lets not ignore our state, the very land where we and our forefathers have/have had roots.

The trees that grow the tallest, have the deepest roots...

dkumars
August 2nd, 2008, 08:52 PM
First of all would like to thank Shweta and Sumit for posting their replies to the thread.

Shweta, you rightly said that if all the states start thinking of restricting entry, things would be morbid. No doubt about it. However, the point remains, are we not being over patriotic by serving our land on a platter to the outsiders whose numbers are increasing at an alarming pace in the NCR especially Haryana. Like all states, even we have limited resources in terms of land, business opportunities, jobs etc. If this influx is uncontrolled and unplanned, the locals would not be left with many options even to exist. Is it necessary that the majority of the migratory population has to be settled in and around Delhi. Why does not the government create opportunities on a wider scale in tier 2/3 towns and cities of states like MP, Bihar, Chhatisgarh, etc. There is a capacity to which a land can withstand the burden of population pressure. Developing NCR may be a temporary solution but certainly not a permanent one. Today Delhi is over congested, tomorrow with such large scale migration continuing, NCR especially Haryana is going to be over-burdened. What next??

Thinking about the country is good, but as they rightly say, charity begins at home. If we don't care for our state and its people, please don't expect the Biharis or Bengalis to come from outside and care for our local aspirations/rights. It is already a question of now or never and if we still donot wake up to the reality, the 'now' from the 'now or never' will disappear forever.

Sumit, Haryana/Rajasthan and UP are not separate countries, but states with communities having a rich past and a bright future (people's aspirations). We would be destroying both, the past and the future if we do not stop this wide-scale and haphazard influx that is taking place at present. We need not stop inter-state movement of people completely, but yes there needs to be a system of checks and control so that the local communities are not swamped and the limited opportunities (taking into consideration their educational background and awareness) available go to them, they being the sons of the soil.

We do feel proud to be Indians but at the same time lets not ignore our state, the very land where we and our forefathers have/have had roots.

The trees that grow the tallest, have the deepest roots...


Hi,

I stay in Bangalore and thousands and lakhs of ppl like me in Karnataka and other states. So, what sy abt us ? Are karnataka and Maharastra and other states not overburdened ? By this rule they shud kick all of us and send back to Haryana. Is this fair as per u ?

:)

narenderkharb
August 3rd, 2008, 10:42 AM
Nice posts ,Sunil .

Seeing plight of Jats in outer Delhi which once was a Jat territory ,we must look future scenario which is looming large over horizon.

skadian123
August 3rd, 2008, 10:24 PM
Thanks for your reply Narenderji.

Well DK thanks for your reply too. The points raised by you are pertinent, however, as any one can make out without much effort, the influx in towns like Mumbai/Pune and Bangalore cannot be equated with the swamping of the NCR.

Haryana is a much smaller state than Maharashtra and Karnataka and cannot afford to let go off its key towns like Rohtak, Panipat, Sonipat etc. Well, Faridabad and Gurgaon have all but disappeared from the 'on ground' map of Haryana. People and companies have even started writing Delhi as state in the addresses to be used for Faridabad and Gurgaon. Same is the case with the Jat belt in western UP with Meerut, Baraut, Baghpat etc, coming under the NCR to ease the population pressure of Delhi.

In the case of Karnataka, the influx that is happening is only restricted to the cities especially Bangalore and that too the migrants are high skilled professionals working with IT companies and other MNCs. Above that, Bangalore will still remain a part of Karnataka and its people will always come within the domicile of Karnataka which is certainly not going to be the case with National Capital Region.

Now lets take the case of Maharashtra, Mumbai in particular. As mentioned earlier, any land resource has a limit to which it can bear the burden of population pressure. Mumbai has been termed as a decaying city by some, as a major part of the city's infrastructure is in shambles with not much upgradation or modification happening over the years which was required to keep pace with the ever increasing population pressure. The Mumbaikars and Maharashtrians started feeling the pinch of the fierce competition posed by outsiders for the limited resouces and opportunities including job opportunities. They have raised their voice in a concerted effort. If Maharashtrians would not have supported Raj Thackeray in his opposition to outsiders, he would have been behind bars for a long time to come considering the amount of violence that took place. Though violence in any form needs to be shunned, we need to understand the reason behind the anti-outsider feeling prevailing among Maharashtrians. In fact most of us would be aware of the incident when all the Bihari candidates sitting for the Railway Recruitment Board exam in Mumbai/Maharashtra were 'Kicked out' of the exam. Its a different story altogether that the exam was rescheduled. The reason for this incident was that in a previous RRB exam in Maharashtra, out of say 180 seats more than 150 went to non- Maharashtrians primarily Biharis. The Maharashtrians were pretty upset with the fact that the Biharis take all the RRB seats in Bihar and then come to Maharashtra and take away the seats meant for Maharashtrians. In fact thats what is happening in all the spheres putting undue pressure on everything including, housing, sanitation, water supply, education, jobs etc.

However, the Maharashtrians and Kannadigas still have the consolation that their territories are going to remain with them, not going to some National Capital Region. You would be aware that teaching of Kannada and Marathi in schools in Karnataka and Maharashtra respectively is compulsory. Statewise census of factory and establishment workers is mandatory in many states where the labour inspector demands to know how many locals have been given jobs in their state, which alongwith other social security measures for locals is painfully missing in the case of Haryana. In the case of Haryana, the son of the soil case would soon ease to exist when the soil would not be Haryanvi any longer.

DK, I can understand your concern which is justified from your point of view, you working in Bangalore. But for people like me the interest of my community and my state is paramount and much above individual interests. Everything in moderation is acceptable to all, but when it happens in excess like in the case of NCR, it becomes an eyesoar.

dkumars
August 4th, 2008, 12:09 AM
Thanks for your reply Narenderji.

Well DK thanks for your reply too. The points raised by you are pertinent, however, as any one can make out without much effort, the influx in towns like Mumbai/Pune and Bangalore cannot be equated with the swamping of the NCR.

Haryana is a much smaller state than Maharashtra and Karnataka and cannot afford to let go off its key towns like Rohtak, Panipat, Sonipat etc. Well, Faridabad and Gurgaon have all but disappeared from the 'on ground' map of Haryana. People and companies have even started writing Delhi as state in the addresses to be used for Faridabad and Gurgaon. Same is the case with the Jat belt in western UP with Meerut, Baraut, Baghpat etc, coming under the NCR to ease the population pressure of Delhi.

In the case of Karnataka, the influx that is happening is only restricted to the cities especially Bangalore and that too the migrants are high skilled professionals working with IT companies and other MNCs. Above that, Bangalore will still remain a part of Karnataka and its people will always come within the domicile of Karnataka which is certainly not going to be the case with National Capital Region. ... Brother Sunil one more thing to add, here i heard and experienced local ppls hatred where they wear T shirts with captions: Go back, Bangalore is full; Bangalore is overburdened, stay away; Bangl cant efford any more, and lot more. U can se the hatred by their behavior also in some cases. So, i feel they are also correct at their part if we talk abt Haryana.

Now lets take the case of Maharashtra, Mumbai in particular. As mentioned earlier, any land resource has a limit to which it can bear the burden of population pressure. Mumbai has been termed as a decaying city by some, as a major part of the city's infrastructure is in shambles with not much upgradation or modification happening over the years which was required to keep pace with the ever increasing population pressure. The Mumbaikars and Maharashtrians started feeling the pinch of the fierce competition posed by outsiders for the limited resouces and opportunities including job opportunities. They have raised their voice in a concerted effort. If Maharashtrians would not have supported Raj Thackeray in his opposition to outsiders, he would have been behind bars for a long time to come considering the amount of violence that took place. Though violence in any form needs to be shunned, we need to understand the reason behind the anti-outsider feeling prevailing among Maharashtrians. In fact most of us would be aware of the incident when all the Bihari candidates sitting for the Railway Recruitment Board exam in Mumbai/Maharashtra were 'Kicked out' of the exam. Its a different story altogether that the exam was rescheduled. The reason for this incident was that in a previous RRB exam in Maharashtra, out of say 180 seats more than 150 went to non- Maharashtrians primarily Biharis. The Maharashtrians were pretty upset with the fact that the Biharis take all the RRB seats in Bihar and then come to Maharashtra and take away the seats meant for Maharashtrians. In fact thats what is happening in all the spheres putting undue pressure on everything including, housing, sanitation, water supply, education, jobs etc.

However, the Maharashtrians and Kannadigas still have the consolation that their territories are going to remain with them, not going to some National Capital Region. You would be aware that teaching of Kannada and Marathi in schools in Karnataka and Maharashtra respectively is compulsory. Statewise census of factory and establishment workers is mandatory in many states where the labour inspector demands to know how many locals have been given jobs in their state, which alongwith other social security measures for locals is painfully missing in the case of Haryana. In the case of Haryana, the son of the soil case would soon ease to exist when the soil would not be Haryanvi any longer.

DK, I can understand your concern which is justified from your point of view, you working in Bangalore. But for people like me the interest of my community and my state is paramount and much above individual interests. Everything in moderation is acceptable to all, but when it happens in excess like in the case of NCR, it becomes an eyesoar.


Sunil, globalisation is the term which allows us to mix up with everyone and everywhere. We cant resist this change or we have to think of all states and countries as well. Just saying Haryana is a small state is not enough reason to court. Almost same is the case with other states as well.

Adding to the blue above... as far as culture and tradition is concerned I say, here in Bangalore majority is AP guys then Tamils and then north indians and then Kannadigas in minority. So, i feel by this thought their concern is more imp than ours. Secondly, in some thread( may be in Why Rohtak stand tall) i read that although Rohtak is not under NCR but still Jats popullation is quite less in percentage. Punjabis are having a big count there. So, this is also a threat to our culture and tradition. Hope u got what i want to convey.

Sum total, i am disagreed with this proposal. But i wud like to be a part of the discussion.

shweta123
August 4th, 2008, 12:13 PM
One thing that everyone will agree to is that it isnt possible for any state to survive completely on its own.

Mankind is not born to live in boundaries ! It is us who make some boundaries to facilitate our existence. Demarcations made by us lead us to situations where we can never be self-reliant. Its natural to look beyond the boundaries & seek help. Therefore, we have no other option left other than co exist by enjoying our inter & intra dependencies.

As Sunil mentioned, I dont think we can live gracefully for long caring for the communal or regional goals. We will have to open our hands wide and embrace the whole country as one, sooner or later.

I dont say that your concern for unjustified burden on resources owing to the residents of a particular nearby state is unjustified, but we will have to combat this situation, but we cant avoid it all together ! Prudent policies need to be there and surely there must be a balance between the fruits & pains of such co-existence, but again I wish to say we can balance such situation but cant avoid it.

Nishantrathi82
August 4th, 2008, 01:08 PM
NCR (National Capital Region) is a term which is awidely used today especially in and around Delhi.

Through the medium of this thread would like to discuss the relevance and importance of these (NCR and NCT) with specific reference to the interests of the local communities of these areas especially the Jats.

The genesis of the National Capital Region lies in the recommendations of the first Master Plan for Delhi (MPD) notified in 1962 wherein, a broad area consisting of the Union Territory of Delhi and a few ring towns around it was conceived for being developed as a metropolitan region to reduce the population pressure on Delhi.


The unprecedented growth of population especially during the post independence years and the consequent haphazard developments had been putting severe pressures on the infrastructure of Delhi. Therefore, it was suggested through various planning exercises beginning from 1956, that serious consideration should be given for a planned decentralization to outer areas and even outside the Delhi Region. The Draft Master Plan for Delhi (1960) had reiterated this idea and the final Master Plan for Delhi (MPD-1962) for the perspective year 1981 recognized the need for planning Delhi in its regional context. The Master Plan had not only defined the composition of the National Capital Region but had also recommended the setting up of a Statutory National Capital Region Planning Board and development of the region in accordance with a Regional Plan.


Sounds like Raj Thakrey speaks about Mumbai(Maharashtra):p
Hmmmmm but still u have a good point, major problem is not the people of our country may be the problem is because of lots of Bangladeshi's residing in NCR, even i can see that the land from ghaziabad towards meerut it's the one of the most fertile land of the country but our government officials continously allocating this land to the builders which will effect our crops may be in some next year.
But because of being neighbour cities of Delhi this NCR region like Gurgaon, noida, ghaziabad, faridabad is developing in a great ways and that's a positive thing for us.

skadian123
August 4th, 2008, 10:50 PM
Well, Nishant the cause for which Raj Thackeray raised his voice is very much justified and is on expected lines for any member of a self-respecting and uprighteous community. Though the means adopted by him to bring home the point were certainly not correct. Unfortunately, for our community, development just means selling away the land of their forefathers to outsiders, buy cars, expensive clothes and jewellery and visit the malls that come up on their 'once upon a time' land. What really takes a backseat in all this process is the DEVELOPMENT OF THE MIND/INTELLECT which is the actual development.

I am really taken aback at times to come across views of my own community members who in their eagerness to become cosmopolitan don't see the imminent and all too visible grave dangers it poses to the very existence of our community. By checking the unabated influx, one is not advocating the building of a 'Berlin Wall', but to honour the aspirations of the local people. As mentioned earlier, everything in moderation is acceptable but such large scale migration is not. Hence, it is not surprising to see the Maharashtrians and Kannadigas and to some extent even theTamils rightfully raising their voices against outsiders.

Nothing can be more unfortunate for our community than the fact that we have wasted and still waste our time in getting into the details thereby missing the big picture which is that our community is on the path to self destruction by subscribing to the views of becoming radically cosmopolitan and patriotic. Its ironic to note that Jatland unlike now, will only and actually be a virtual place on the net for all Jats with no land resources left under their control.

There are no boundaries to be created, but encouragement should be given to local people through whatever means to have access to quality education, decent housing, entrepreneurial opportunities, substantial land holdings. The majority of the above mentioned actions come under the domain of governmental responsibility. Instead what the government is doing is exactly the opposite. It is selling the land at breakneck speed to outsiders as if there is no tomorrow.

Yes, Ghaziabad, Faridabad, Gurgaon are developing, but for whom..... The very outsiders for whom the government (Central/Delhi/Haryana) devised the gameplan of NCR. These governments knew that taking away the land of the ignorant and gullible farmers forcibly would not be possible. So it dangled the carrot of 'Development' in front of these innocent and gullible peasant folk who dreamed of a better future for them and their children. But what actually transpired, we all know... how far have the Jats of Delhi reached in this race of development. Living in closely confined walls of congested and dingy urban villages, they have to a great extent reconciled to their fate and their not so prudent actions (of selling their land to outsiders). Had there been any other community strategically located in and around Delhi, it would have done wonders for itself...and that too without selling off its land, making the most of its resources.

Even now, not everything is lost. Leaving the exceptions aside, majority of the community members whom I have come across feel that the Jats of Delhi have got a raw deal from outsiders by selling off their land in haste to make a quick buck.

Lets not repeat our past mistakes because the community that doesnot learn from its past mistakes is doomed...

dkumars
August 4th, 2008, 11:37 PM
Well, Nishant the cause for which Raj Thackeray raised his voice is very much justified and is on expected lines for any member of a self-respecting and uprighteous community. Though the means adopted by him to bring home the point were certainly not correct. Unfortunately, for our community, development just means selling away the land of their forefathers to outsiders, buy cars, expensive clothes and jewellery and visit the malls that come up on their 'once upon a time' land. What really takes a backseat in all this process is the DEVELOPMENT OF THE MIND/INTELLECT which is the actual development.

I am really taken aback at times to come across views of my own community members who in their eagerness to become cosmopolitan don't see the imminent and all too visible grave dangers it poses to the very existence of our community. By checking the unabated influx, one is not advocating the building of a 'Berlin Wall', but to honour the aspirations of the local people. As mentioned earlier, everything in moderation is acceptable but such large scale migration is not. Hence, it is not surprising to see the Maharashtrians and Kannadigas and to some extent even theTamils rightfully raising their voices against outsiders.

Nothing can be more unfortunate for our community than the fact that we have wasted and still waste our time in getting into the details thereby missing the big picture which is that our community is on the path to self destruction by subscribing to the views of becoming radically cosmopolitan and patriotic. Its ironic to note that Jatland unlike now, will only and actually be a virtual place on the net for all Jats with no land resources left under their control.

There are no boundaries to be created, but encouragement should be given to local people through whatever means to have access to quality education, decent housing, entrepreneurial opportunities, substantial land holdings. The majority of the above mentioned actions come under the domain of governmental responsibility. Instead what the government is doing is exactly the opposite. It is selling the land at breakneck speed to outsiders as if there is no tomorrow.

Yes, Ghaziabad, Faridabad, Gurgaon are developing, but for whom..... The very outsiders for whom the government (Central/Delhi/Haryana) devised the gameplan of NCR. These governments knew that taking away the land of the ignorant and gullible farmers forcibly would not be possible. So it dangled the carrot of 'Development' in front of these innocent and gullible peasant folk who dreamed of a better future for them and their children. But what actually transpired, we all know... how far have the Jats of Delhi reached in this race of development. Living in closely confined walls of congested and dingy urban villages, they have to a great extent reconciled to their fate and their not so prudent actions (of selling their land to outsiders). Had there been any other community strategically located in and around Delhi, it would have done wonders for itself...and that too without selling off its land, making the most of its resources.

Even now, not everything is lost. Leaving the exceptions aside, majority of the community members whom I have come across feel that the Jats of Delhi have got a raw deal from outsiders by selling off their land in haste to make a quick buck.

Lets not repeat our past mistakes because the community that doesnot learn from its past mistakes is doomed...


Sunil, could u please tell the solution and measures which we shud take to avoid such a situation ?

bhavnasingh20
August 5th, 2008, 10:34 AM
Well, Nishant the cause for which Raj Thackeray raised his voice is very much justified and is on expected lines for any member of a self-respecting and uprighteous community. Though the means adopted by him to bring home the point were certainly not correct. Unfortunately, for our community, development just means selling away the land of their forefathers to outsiders, buy cars, expensive clothes and jewellery and visit the malls that come up on their 'once upon a time' land. What really takes a backseat in all this process is the DEVELOPMENT OF THE MIND/INTELLECT which is the actual development.

I am really taken aback at times to come across views of my own community members who in their eagerness to become cosmopolitan don't see the imminent and all too visible grave dangers it poses to the very existence of our community. By checking the unabated influx, one is not advocating the building of a 'Berlin Wall', but to honour the aspirations of the local people. As mentioned earlier, everything in moderation is acceptable but such large scale migration is not. Hence, it is not surprising to see the Maharashtrians and Kannadigas and to some extent even theTamils rightfully raising their voices against outsiders.

Nothing can be more unfortunate for our community than the fact that we have wasted and still waste our time in getting into the details thereby missing the big picture which is that our community is on the path to self destruction by subscribing to the views of becoming radically cosmopolitan and patriotic. Its ironic to note that Jatland unlike now, will only and actually be a virtual place on the net for all Jats with no land resources left under their control.

There are no boundaries to be created, but encouragement should be given to local people through whatever means to have access to quality education, decent housing, entrepreneurial opportunities, substantial land holdings. The majority of the above mentioned actions come under the domain of governmental responsibility. Instead what the government is doing is exactly the opposite. It is selling the land at breakneck speed to outsiders as if there is no tomorrow.

Yes, Ghaziabad, Faridabad, Gurgaon are developing, but for whom..... The very outsiders for whom the government (Central/Delhi/Haryana) devised the gameplan of NCR. These governments knew that taking away the land of the ignorant and gullible farmers forcibly would not be possible. So it dangled the carrot of 'Development' in front of these innocent and gullible peasant folk who dreamed of a better future for them and their children. But what actually transpired, we all know... how far have the Jats of Delhi reached in this race of development. Living in closely confined walls of congested and dingy urban villages, they have to a great extent reconciled to their fate and their not so prudent actions (of selling their land to outsiders). Had there been any other community strategically located in and around Delhi, it would have done wonders for itself...and that too without selling off its land, making the most of its resources.

Even now, not everything is lost. Leaving the exceptions aside, majority of the community members whom I have come across feel that the Jats of Delhi have got a raw deal from outsiders by selling off their land in haste to make a quick buck.

Lets not repeat our past mistakes because the community that doesnot learn from its past mistakes is doomed...


I dont agree with you at all...when country is one then we should behave as one....the states have been divided just so to make it easier to manage that much land with respect to law and order etc. isliye states nahin banayi thi ki ek sect yahan rahegi aur ek wahan...

i belong to rajasthan but hav never lived there...mein to bachpan se delhi mein hi hoon....so shud i start telling ppl tht m frm del n not frm rajasthan or shud i go back to tht state whr i hav never lived n is alien for me?
n waise bhi when m in a free and democratic country then i hav as much right as the next delhi wala to stay here and do what i want...within the realms of law......
warna to fir countries hi bana do alag alag....states ka koi use nahin...
n raj thackery is a big loser...thts it....jo insaan mehnat karne wala hai woh paise kama lega....chahe mumbai mein ho ya delhi mein...
jab US ne kaha tha ki humne unke jobs le liye tab sab kyun india ke support mein khade hue the...tab to koi nahin bola ki haan US sahi hai unki naukri wapas kar do...
n BPO sector is growing at a rapid rate.....
n have u looked for a job based on its geographic location or based on the profile and money u r getting???
work towards the development of the country...sab states ki halat apne aap sudhar jaayegi.....

skadian123
August 5th, 2008, 10:49 PM
Thanks to everyone for posting their valuable comments and viewpoint on the topic of this thread.

One point that I have observed from the replies is that most of the supporters of the NCR concept are people who have stayed or are at present staying out of their native places. They extrapolate their own personal circumstances to the concept of NCR in order to justify unchecked movement of people across states. Well, there's nothing wrong in doing that - after all if we oppose NCR, then at least morally, we lose the right of staying say in Bangalore/Mumbai.

What happens when there is no space left even in the NCR. Where will the Delhi/Central Government look towards??? Then they will include Punjab into the NCR. And when that too gets congested, they will move into Himachal Pradesh and finally into J&K. What a way to development. No open spaces left, all concrete jungles till the northern tip of the country - what a sight it will be??? In the process what will happen is Many C.R. Parks (heavily inhabited by only Bengalis), Hari Nagar/Tilak Nagar (heavily inhabited by Sardars) will come up on the very land which once belonged to the Jats. All communities like the Bengalis of C.R. Park, Sardars of Tilak Nagar, Biharis of East Delhi are closely knit communities for whom the interest of their community is of paramount importance. By being community conscious, they are no less patriotic than the Jats. Even they are Indians. And here we have Jats (with all due respect to their viewpoint as we all have a right to have one) merrily singing the tune of radical cosmopolitanism. Being educated and forward looking does not mean you forget your roots and hand over your land in the name of development to outsiders on a platter.

We forget the fact that major wars have been fought in the past all across the world for the ownership of land and many more will be fought in the future. Yet, here we are happy seeing many C.R. Parks and Tilak Nagars coming up in our very own Haryana with the government aquiring land and selling it over to the outsiders at nominal rates. I would be really indebted if any of the pro-development specialist on this forum can visit and survey the sectors and posh colonies in Gurgaon/Faridabad and tell us the proportion of Jats who own houses there. Negligible. Yet we are happy with the so called development - because at least we are able to visit the malls in the evening to hang out.

What Laloo said to the Japanese is going to be true for Haryana - Give me Japan for a day, I will make it another Bihar. Haryana will be a Bihar soon - the very Bihar that I am sure no Pro-NCR member would like to go to for work leaving alone settling down. Inter-state migration should not and cannot be stopped completely but at the same time it can be controlled and checked in the interest of local communities.

dkumars
August 6th, 2008, 01:55 AM
Thanks to everyone for posting their valuable comments and viewpoint on the topic of this thread.

One point that I have observed from the replies is that most of the supporters of the NCR concept are people who have stayed or are at present staying out of their native places. They extrapolate their own personal circumstances to the concept of NCR in order to justify unchecked movement of people across states. Well, there's nothing wrong in doing that - after all if we oppose NCR, then at least morally, we lose the right of staying say in Bangalore/Mumbai.

What happens when there is no space left even in the NCR. Where will the Delhi/Central Government look towards??? Then they will include Punjab into the NCR. And when that too gets congested, they will move into Himachal Pradesh and finally into J&K. What a way to development. No open spaces left, all concrete jungles till the northern tip of the country - what a sight it will be??? In the process what will happen is Many C.R. Parks (heavily inhabited by only Bengalis), Hari Nagar/Tilak Nagar (heavily inhabited by Sardars) will come up on the very land which once belonged to the Jats. All communities like the Bengalis of C.R. Park, Sardars of Tilak Nagar, Biharis of East Delhi are closely knit communities for whom the interest of their community is of paramount importance. By being community conscious, they are no less patriotic than the Jats. Even they are Indians. And here we have Jats (with all due respect to their viewpoint as we all have a right to have one) merrily singing the tune of radical cosmopolitanism. Being educated and forward looking does not mean you forget your roots and hand over your land in the name of development to outsiders on a platter.

We forget the fact that major wars have been fought in the past all across the world for the ownership of land and many more will be fought in the future. Yet, here we are happy seeing many C.R. Parks and Tilak Nagars coming up in our very own Haryana with the government aquiring land and selling it over to the outsiders at nominal rates.

I would be really indebted if any of the pro-development specialist on this forum can visit and survey the sectors and posh colonies in Gurgaon/Faridabad and tell us the proportion of Jats who own houses there. Negligible. Yet we are happy with the so called development - because at least we are able to visit the malls in the evening to hang out.

What Laloo said to the Japanese is going to be true for Haryana - Give me Japan for a day, I will make it another Bihar. Haryana will be a Bihar soon - the very Bihar that I am sure no Pro-NCR member would like to go to for work leaving alone settling down. Inter-state migration should not and cannot be stopped completely but at the same time it can be controlled and checked in the interest of local communities.


Bhai i asked u for a practical solution. Do u have a solution also or u raised this question to gt a solution?

After that i want to know ur intntions also. I mean what do u expect the conclusion of this thread as well as the steps to save our own Haryana ?

ygulia
August 6th, 2008, 06:02 AM
Do we know why jats of Haryana are backwards in comparison to jats of Punjab? We can find the answer for it in this thread. I am sure most of us know it too but some people do not understand it as it is evident from this thread. People want to live like a frog in a well. Haryanvi and punjabi,s have stoped working in their fields and now who is doing those jobs either Bihari's or people from Eastern U.P. Above all, India is a democratic country and as per constitution every citizen has a right to live any where in the country.

bhavnasingh20
August 6th, 2008, 11:01 AM
Bhai i asked u for a practical solution. Do u have a solution also or u raised this question to gt a solution?

After that i want to know ur intntions also. I mean what do u expect the conclusion of this thread as well as the steps to save our own Haryana ?


I completely agree with DK n even i am waiting to hear ur reply to this post kadian ji

brahmtewatia
August 6th, 2008, 12:17 PM
bhai sunil,

my rqst to u, pls. take it in a gud spirit...u'll hardly find a single taker for yr. idea(s) in this thread. i admire yr. luv towards haryana nd its culture + yr. writing skills :) ...but, pls. save yr. energy...u owe a lot to JL...remember...

"u cannot change the past, but u can ruin a perfectly gud present, by worrying abt the future" :)

samay ko kisne roka hai, aur kaun ise rok paayega...no need to b nostalgic abt yr. attachment to haryana or being a JAT...nxt do-teen generations mein sab-kuchh to vaise bhi khatam ho jaana hai...u wont find any remains of sumthin' called culture, customs, traditions or moral values. blame it on our ambitions, development or for tht matter our incapability, helplessness, population or politicians <<< all these r just reasons...the main culprit is TIME...no one can stand against TIME.

pnauhwar21
August 6th, 2008, 02:12 PM
Hi Sunil,

I would like to start the discussion on this topic with some questions. Hope you will answer them with complete truth.

I see from your profile that you are in Gurgaon. If you don't mind, can you tell if you are working in some private company there opened by outsiders or have your own traditional farming that you are supporting?

Also, please inform whom you consider as outsiders? A company owned by some Non-Jat/Non-Haryanvi? Do you believe that those companies employ only Biharis/Bengalis/Sardars whom you consider outsiders? You also said "I would be really indebted if any of the pro-development specialist on this forum can visit and survey the sectors and posh colonies in Gurgaon/Faridabad and tell us the proportion of Jats who own houses there. Negligible." How do you know that proportion is negligible..did you do any such survey? As far I know, atleast in private companies being opened by so called outsiders (read Americans, Ambanis, etc), no one asks your caste first while calling for the jobs. If you are educated and fit the job profile you will be as eligible as a bengali/punjabi/baniya/ (until our great politicians bring reservation when you will be more eligible being an OBC)

As for maintaining our culture, traditional jobs - I believe you mean our traditional living style, our way of earning livelihood (farming), our language, etc. Can you tell how much of this culture are you maintaining yourself or intend to do? Were you born in a farming family in gurgaon? If not, then why did you or your parents moved out of traditional villages to city/NCR?

Since you are marking all those supporting NCR or 1 country 1 world concept as Radical Cosmopolitans, it will be good if you can prove allegiance to your views first.

In the end - what would you like? Close all private companies in Gurgaon and giver farmers their land back for farming? Would that be a better solution in your view? And would that help in claiming back the rich cultural heritage of Haryana?

Nishantrathi82
August 6th, 2008, 03:06 PM
Hi Sunil,

I would like to start the discussion on this topic with some questions. Hope you will answer them with complete truth.

I see from your profile that you are in Gurgaon. If you don't mind, can you tell if you are working in some private company there opened by outsiders or have your own traditional farming that you are supporting?

Also, please inform whom you consider as outsiders? A company owned by some Non-Jat/Non-Haryanvi? Do you believe that those companies employ only Biharis/Bengalis/Sardars whom you consider outsiders? You also said "I would be really indebted if any of the pro-development specialist on this forum can visit and survey the sectors and posh colonies in Gurgaon/Faridabad and tell us the proportion of Jats who own houses there. Negligible." How do you know that proportion is negligible..did you do any such survey? As far I know, atleast in private companies being opened by so called outsiders (read Americans, Ambanis, etc), no one asks your caste first while calling for the jobs. If you are educated and fit the job profile you will be as eligible as a bengali/punjabi/baniya/ (until our great politicians bring reservation when you will be more eligible being an OBC)

As for maintaining our culture, traditional jobs - I believe you mean our traditional living style, our way of earning livelihood (farming), our language, etc. Can you tell how much of this culture are you maintaining yourself or intend to do? Were you born in a farming family in gurgaon? If not, then why did you or your parents moved out of traditional villages to city/NCR?

Since you are marking all those supporting NCR or 1 country 1 world concept as Radical Cosmopolitans, it will be good if you can prove allegiance to your views first.

In the end - what would you like? Close all private companies in Gurgaon and giver farmers their land back for farming? Would that be a better solution in your view? And would that help in claiming back the rich cultural heritage of Haryana?



Hmmmm All the questions sounds valid and one side u compare ur country with US and question's the devlopment of our country and on other side if it happens you point out the causes of the development. And this Gurgaon plays a very important role who give us the third Trillionier of the country and luckly he is the JAT Mr. K.P.Singh:). And if you want development you have to sacrifise in some ways. And this is not the development of NCR only this is the development for our country and its People.

brahmtewatia
August 6th, 2008, 03:44 PM
Hmmmm All the questions sounds valid and one side u compare ur country with US and question's the devlopment of our country and on other side if it happens you point out the causes of the development. And this Gurgaon plays a very important role who give us the third Trillionier of the country and luckly he is the JAT Mr. K.P.Singh :). And if you want development you have to sacrifise in some ways. And this is not the development of NCR only this is the development for our country and its People.

more about the uncle...frm Jatland Wiki...here's the link
http://www.jatland.com/home/Kushal_Pal_Singh_Tewatia

p.s. = this link is for those who advocated me to make tewatialand :rolleyes::cool:

skadian123
August 6th, 2008, 10:43 PM
Well, the solutions lie in one of my earlier replies. The problem is of such proportions that it elicits a multi-pronged strategy and plan of action. In brief, as I pointed out earlier, the control and check mechanisms come within the government domain. The state governments need to make available to the local population quality education, housing, work, entrepreneural opportunities. At the same time, NGOs and other social welfare organisations need to join hands to uplift the downtrodden section of the local populations so that even they can contribute to the productivity of the state instead of inviting outsiders for the same. Besides these of course, there need to be state legislations requiring the employment of locals in the factories and offices in the respective Haryana/UP/Rajasthan regions of the NCR and the same needs to be strictly enforced.

I think somewhere we have got a little personal here as to where was I born, what is the culture at my home, where to I work, etc., etc. I don't think it necessary to answer to these questions. Opposing the NCR is not going to benefit me personally in anyway. Its just that I didn't want to see a future for my community in NCR (Haryana/Western UP) which is similar to that of the local population of Delhi who now live in close walled villages surrounded by the posh colonies of non-Jats. What we ignore now will hit our senses hard, but I guess we still have some time for that. The only thing left to do for the community it seems though unfortunately is to wait and watch its own slow but steady disappearance. We were never bound together by a written script, written history, etc. Whatever left will also soon vanish - lets wait and watch as time is the best narrator of things and events to happen.

Brahmji, I accept your suggestion wholeheartedly. I guess this is not the forum for these issues. We are happy and comfortable in our todays after all who's seen tomorrow. There is no need to put in efforts to change tomorrow as tomorrow will unfold itself. Would not be writting any further on any issues facing the Jat community at least on this forum. Sadly, lets wait and watch the things unfurl which certainly don't seem to be in the interest of the community. After all, we are not Gujjars and we don't have a Col. Bainsla or for that matter even a Medha Patekar or a Bahuguna...

sandeepkadian05
August 6th, 2008, 11:06 PM
Sunil Bhai, If not your views atleast i admire your passion... But think of it this way, Haven't Gurgaon or Faridabad benefitted from the expansion?? And haven't the benefits outweighed the costs incurred???? The civic amenietes, standard of education, hospitals, employment opportunities, standard of living haven't they all improved???

I once had a very interesting talk with a shop owner in sadar bazaar- Gurgaon when i was working in Gurgaon. This gave me some idea about the feelings of the locals. Reported word to word.. It was a very clody day and i was sitting at a confectionary where i used to waste my lunch hour...

Myself- Uncle ji lagta hai aaj to baarish hogi...

Shopowner- Nahin hogi beta, nahin hogi..

Myself- Uncleji itna yakeen kyon hai aapko? Baadal to dekho...

Shopowner- Beta yahan ke sab jaaton ne apni jameen in companies ko bech kar jo paap kiya hai, uske liye ram kabhi Gurgaon ko maaf nahin karega...

Though it did rain eventually and continues to do so in Gurgaon, The exchange left me a bit puzzled... Did the locals sell their land willingly or it was govt takeover.. I do not know, can someone tell me??

narenderkharb
August 8th, 2008, 10:33 PM
Jattan nu Jamin Maa ton baddh Payari Hai....

Baddhi Company di .Haddpan di Tayyari aee,,,eeanha nal raal gayi centre di sarkar hai...

Babbu Jatt da massage for community ..


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcvuwWTI21Q&feature=related


Ps Sardar means Choudhary

anrtish
August 10th, 2008, 01:11 AM
Nice posts ,Sunil .

Seeing plight of Jats in outer Delhi which once was a Jat territory ,we must look future scenario which is looming large over horizon.

i hope jats will again be eliminated from this land as they earlier were done from sindh. no one will believe again that krisna was born in a low sudra jat family of sindh. there upon used to be a big state like sindh where it included gujrat, maharashtra, sindh,....dominated by balhara jats...