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Samarkadian
August 13th, 2008, 05:41 AM
In the ordinary course of nature thousands upon thousands are born every day, but he alone is truly born whose birth leads to the elevation of his race. --- Ch. Chottu Ram.

These lines from the legendary and visionary Jat which is signature line of a respected member , inspired me to start this thread. Many times while going through ancient, medieval and modern history; I pondered ~~WHY nature has been generous to this very race to gift some specific gene which are crown of human behaviour. It is very much rhetorical to understand that in past, natural calamities, invasions and other social conventions led Jats to rise and rise in a fashion to conquer impossible humane feats. In the last century, with the invention of electronic and other means of media, jats has started coming in limelight in various fields. Though they are enjoying and had enjoyed social rapport as socially upper caste( caste is purely Portuguese induced term because they arrived before the Britishers who later followed the same term to divide and rule the various section of society).It is evident in rural areas that Jats dominate in a fashion that political parties frame, reframe their policies to please jat voters but that is a different issue altogether here.

If not overall but a lot of , with the opening of markets during the times of Globalization, rural charm is on decline in festivals, social meetings, culture interests.We must not forget that European reniassance was initiated with enriching cultural endeavours by writers, musicians firstly.There is a wave of insecurity among race due to the shrinking of resources. That we all observe when poor Bengalis fought to death for their land in Singur , our Jats were eager to sign the deal.~~ WHY the sons of soil are facing such a problem?~~ Please, put your opinions not only based on economical reasons but also on social and cultural terms.

Secondly, the decline of (almost degraded) of role-modelship. It is pathetic to know that example of Mallika Sherawat is given nationally about characteristic of the race. And that too in a willingly stupid way.

It can be seen from another point of view, this is the severe lack of a role model in representing the Jats or not respecting/following which already are standing. Since religiously we are not same stage like Sikhs, Muslims. This makes this UNITY a mamooth challenge. Also we are not facing a bigger challenge like Sikhs in 1984. Reservation too sound more of a path filled with roses of pity.Pity is the cup of tea for weaks.Brave and confidenced always achieve on the basis of their free will and dogged determination.Choice is clear.One is a way which leads to dignity, honour and quite characterstical to Jats another is of confused, dependent and of mediocre.

One of our members asked WHAT Yadavs have lost by taking this reservation. I say that in pure desi words-rees karo to kam se kam apne se uper aala ki. My answer and question here is to look in to the ultra-minority of Parsis. WHAT provoked them to be the luminaries on the sky of India? We can solve most of queries regarding reservation issue, provided we see their uprising rather than socially down Yadavs if taken them as caste.

So WHAT do you people think about issues, agendas, visions to stand together? What should be the consolidated structure of a common enduring roof.

Most of you will be going to say about education for uprising. But WHAT kind of education? Education system too is Lord McClay's mind's product of making us a slave. Education or lack of it hardly matters when induced a zeal to be successful.

Let us diagnose some of our infected parts honestly, with candid acceptance and enthusiastically cure them. It is a responsibility awaiting. Firstly applying to self, then in surrounding enviornment through harmonious approach . Yes!! one can definitely do that. Humans have that spirit and Jats in a way are brave human fighters. There is always a time to do anything.

PS: Put your views in good deliberated form so that it becomes a place to notice a single input. Healthy discussion can make aware many coming members and present as well. A controlled aggression towards subject would be really appreciable.

Thanks.
:)

anilsinghd
August 16th, 2008, 06:11 PM
Thanks mate for giving the Section a head start. :)

Here are my view on the topic :


Not long ago , infact to be precise in around early 2006 , I really was not aware of any Jats that have been into successful professional fields. Coming from a modest rural background and my own lack of going out and seeing the world did not help. Infact I was never aware of anything called IITs when I finished my class 10th studies and it was one of my uncle ( my father's friend ( not a Jat )) who lured me into vying for that. But as I joined internet on Orkut and Jatland , the overwhelming number of Jat people working as technocrats , managers , engineers , scientists and in media and all other fields made me wonder in awwe.


With regards to you point of everyone wanting to move away from traditional work of agriculture , I believe we should aptly name this phenomenon as "Race to Globalisation" , which I believe is not the best strategy. Can only quote one of the dohas : " Dheere dheere re mana , dheere sab kuch hoye ; maali seenche so ghada , ritu aaye fal hoye ". We must imbibe in ourselves that no work is superior and each one is important in what he/she is doing. Only that will lead to a development path which is holistic and is not skewed to any particular sphere of life. Your point of a social and cultural awakening is something I think is the urgent need , it is time to realise that we move not only physically but mentally into 21st century and responsiblity of parents/future parets /elders becomes even more important to imbibe in the people ethics and noble qualities. Tradition/Culture is something I believe is not rebuilt in different ages but only enhances/improved with minor modifications.


With regards to your role model thing , I guess this is very individual specific , I am not denying the needs of leaders but we must not base ourselves on orders/action points of one particular group/person , but rather try and being social/cultural/personal/ professional entrepreneurs ourselves. Small ventures can later be big , but big ideas ( not implemented ) are nowhere as compared to small ventures as well. We must not wait for opportunities ( if they are not existent ) at a very big , macro level , but rather in the meantime create opportunities at micro level. :) Let us be role models and inspirations for each other , each one teaching/learning from the other.


With regards to Education system , I really dont find a lot of fault ( and that is justified in presence of an proved alternative ) with the current systems , may be one thing that needs be changed is the delivery mechanism and the intake mechanism as well.
On the delivery part :: Rote learning should be discouraged while inquisitiveness , thinking , analytical abilitiy and innovation is one thing that should be encouraged. People must be asked to implement ideas in which they believe rather than doing things which have been successful or are in popularity. WE should be forward looking rather than chasing the past. Ofcourse we all must posess memory to learn from the past but we cannot naiively assume that history repeats itself because over the period of time , everyone learns from their mistakes and it is quite probable that similar mistakes are not repeated but newer ones are created , so rather than just finding cures for the past , we must think proactively on what can go wrong in future.

On the intake part , of course we must take things that strike to ourselves more serious than others but surely that does not mean we forget everything else. Extreme learning/behaviour is something that can lead to a disconnect between popular goals and self-goals. Other arts/trades /school of thoughts must also be respected and we must try and have a basic understanding of the same. If i have to remember a course I liked and remember most , it would be a course of Science and Humanism rather than those hard core maths courses. It taught me a lot about life.
We must try and remember that we must try and excel not only professionally but personally and socially /culturally as well.
In that case to connect life and mathematics , I would say that the best graph of two competing life parts is tha straight line passing through origin and having a slope of 1. It represents the balance between those competing variables , it is that balance that holds the beauty of life and it is that balance that we all must strive for. :)

This individual vision should lead to the development of individual in sync with the family / caste / society / nation , all levels of development. :)

sanjeev_balyan
August 18th, 2008, 10:41 PM
Very nice , best topic as welcome thread to the sec by Samar
My view
Education :- Not so bad and same time We cant change much to the education system. Main thing I have noticed is awareness about the educational system. I belong to a extremely rural area in district Muzaffarnagar UP. You go to any inter college and ask about IIT // NDA // Medical // IIM. You ill be shocked about the response. Golden aim of Jat boys in these schools is to become the Delhi police ka SIPAHI. Second option is constable in other police / para military /armed forces. Good talent is being wasted due to non availability of good guidance. This the Jat society reputation, u cant believe that most demanded Jat grooms are Delhi police constable. ( I want excuse from all constable from Delhi police or other forces , my aim is not to degrade u or defame u.) I want to convey the point that mind set has to be changed. at least, hidden talent in our Jat community has to be guided properly. The Jatlanders and this site can do wonders in this area.
Traditional job : This community cant survive on agriculture. A good sign is noticed now a days to opt other fields as well. Jats are dominating very high in every field. We lack unity and groups here, to boost the upcoming youth. In rural area, success of any Jat boy / girl is not taken in good spirit by the local community, why he / she ??? Our community is really facing the absence of a Good leader to overcome these low mentality.

pscil
September 18th, 2008, 12:36 PM
Tarphu karma jus viranga taru kate mare na jaise
Sadhan kare vichar heen mun, shubd hova na kaise

Due to his karmas man becomes like a young warrior who lies bleeding to death on the battlefield. This reason for this is that the lower or baser mind concentrates only on material gratification, so why should it not lead to depression and pain.
When a man is young he is like the seasonal river, which gushes with exuberance and makes a great noise only for it to dry up, like in old age, when the rains stop. The man who realizes this has known the permanent from the temporary.
Management is all about going from facts to theory and never vice versa. It is like the Indian thought which is based on the inductive logic which goes from the particular to the general, unlike the western thought which is based on deductive logic in which you go from the general to the particular.

The greatest reason for our slavery has been that our strength, compassion and love, which has led to building stable families and our deep philosophy, has also led to forgiving and forgetting very easily. We have never really punished the perpetuators of the most heinous crimes in our history. Our strength has thus become our weakness. Too much of misapplied goodness is counterproductive. One should first analyze, who he is applying his good intentions to.
I do not know the key to success but I can tell you the key to failure and that is trying to please everyone.

rinkusheoran
September 19th, 2008, 11:10 AM
Thanks Samar for starting this thread :)

'It is a fine thing to have ability, but the ability to find ability of the others is the true test'.

Regarding your point that everybody is moving away from traditional work of agriculture, you may call it RACE TO GLOBALISATION as Anil said or other way to look at this is that we dont have resources, land holding is reducing with years and at most of the places its dependent on rain, so you cant survive on agriculture, you have to look for others options. So, they are bound to move away from this and in doing so where they should go and what they should do we need the leader or role models who can give them inspiration to do something that they want achieve in their lives. We need role models(likes of Ch. Chhoturam) for them, be it from some different race or some celebrity who can inspire them and we need people who can guide them in their pursuit .

I dont think anything is wrong is aspiring to become a constable in police or paramilitary or army, My father was in Crpf and because of that i was able to reach where i'm today , i never aspired to become a constable( reason being i was provided a good education by taking me out of village, which changed my thinking and attitude towards life without forgetting about my roots where i belong to) even though i belong to a very rural background where you get power only for eight hours and there are hardly any faculty in school even if few are there they dont know how to teach?

I ll tell you one anecdote, i was talking to one of acquaintance who is a Jat working with a MNC, a postgraduate and very affluent and some point i asked him about the gotra of his mother and grand mother much to the chagrin of mine and others present there he was not aware of his mother and grandmother gotra, this is not one of incident but story of many jats.
Here comes the role of education, what kind of education
As one of you rightly said we need practical education that can imbibe the values and inculcate in them the values that we have inherited from generation to generation but now days we are loosing them somewhere, we should not let this happen to us.
we need to tell our generation about the challenges our ancestors have faced , about the sacrifices they have made, about the struggle they made in giving us what we have today.

Regarding the Mallika Sehrawat from my point she does not represent our race but one of individual who belongs to this race and i dont see anything wrong in what she is doing, she is pursuing a career what half ( may be more than that) of girls of this country aspire to be. The people who are maligning her are nothing but the pure hypocrites, they dont not utter a word when other actress are doing that but when any jat girl do that they just try to obloquy that girl. its sheer traducement nothing more than that. This is the tricks of these brahmans and baniyas to malign our race in one way or others.

What is need " Ideas are of no use if they are in mind, they are only of use when they are put into actions", so we need to put our ideas into action for the upliftment of our race and ourselves.

Samarkadian
October 2nd, 2008, 01:50 AM
Tarphu karma jus viranga taru kate mare na jaise
Sadhan kare vichar heen mun, shubd hova na kaise

Due to his karmas man becomes like a young warrior who lies bleeding to death on the battlefield. This reason for this is that the lower or baser mind concentrates only on material gratification, so why should it not lead to depression and pain.

When a man is young he is like the seasonal river, which gushes with exuberance and makes a great noise only for it to dry up, like in old age, when the rains stop. The man who realizes this has known the permanent from the temporary.
Management is all about going from facts to theory and never vice versa. It is like the Indian thought which is based on the inductive logic which goes from the particular to the general, unlike the western thought which is based on deductive logic in which you go from the general to the particular.

The greatest reason for our slavery has been that our strength, compassion and love, which has led to building stable families and our deep philosophy, has also led to forgiving and forgetting very easily. We have never really punished the perpetuators of the most heinous crimes in our history. Our strength has thus become our weakness. Too much of misapplied goodness is counterproductive. One should first analyze, who he is applying his good intentions to.

I do not know the key to success but I can tell you the key to failure and that is trying to please everyone.

This is one of the best post I have read on site which explains philosophicaly many things related to the ways of living.Every youngster who visits this section should go through this post for personal and professional gain.

Like Sanjeev Said, Jatlanders and this site can do wonders , I do have always believed in this thing.But once again I would like to raise one point 'reason' or 'need' to be united. Like I mentioned in first post, different religious sect have their own roof to stand together in any crisis. Jats as such do not have any roof where we can call people. So this makes this task more challenging.This site gives a strong database of educated and experienced.
jats.But again question arises why should Jat be together? Like at the time of Kargil the whole country was united and wanted to contribute in any possible manner to the country.There are already many issues which are needed to be addressesd seriously.One of them is Female Foeticide in Haryana and Among Jat population.Many news channels have proudly shown documentaries over this critical male to female ratio in jats and buying of brides from southern and eastern states..This tag really seems to push us in medevivial times.

Can any one from us come forward to really diagnose the actual reason for such a down trodden mentality prevailing among ethnic brave people?

I also welcome female members to discuss this issue in detail.

anilsinghd
October 3rd, 2008, 09:41 PM
I would in this post of mine touch upon some of the previous posts by others and try and put forward my views ( substantiation at some point and disagreement at others).


1) I do agree with Rinku about Mallika. She is just being a professional. Whatever she does is with herself. Imagine someone selling those crappy mortgages to investors , that was professional but unethical in that sense!
Everyone does his/her job , let them be!
Rather than finger pointing at others , we should try and analyse ourselves! :)

2) About the incident Rinku mentioned that the guy did not know his mother and grandmother gotras. This is what I call a curse(coule be worse in future?)on the educated section of our community. Loosing touch with the base is worse that can happen. We are the elite , the so called cream , If we forget our roots , neglect the responsibility we have , forget what we owe to our society at large , who else will? We all must appreciate that social responsibility is a duty , it should not be a leisure/time paas / low priority thing. It should be taken more seriously. Reminded of a quote from an IITian who was a topper some 15 years back and opted for social service : He said " The social sector needs INTELLIGNET people ".

I am not trying to create a hype around ourselves , but stating the fact , We do have the mind , and the contacts and the resources to do something good. At least we dont have so much to worry about what would we be eating in the next meal! :)

3) Parvir's point of we being too forgiving /forgetting was something that I could not comprehend a lot , so more clarifications from him would help me. On face value I would say that the same thing has kept us from breaking down totally. We still have regards for values , ethics , family , culture and perhaps the fire within us to do good. Perhaps the reason why we are discussing at all as well!
Though i reiterate that I did not get him completely! :)

I strongly agree to him that trying to please everyone is the worst we can think of /implement. Too much of democracy is destructive. Not everybody is a leader , most are followers , and always revolution/change first hand finds a resistance , which breaks down in long term.

4) Samar's point of female foeticide , well mate , its a bubble (is not it ?), it will burst , though as with all bubbles it will pain! I have this wild interest of correlating everything with life , is not this something like a housing bubble we just saw go burst in US , the leverage bubble , the ballooning profits , the so called smart I-Bankers ( MBA's and MS's and PHD's ) , the ever growing risk appetite? Nothing can survive indefinitely. Ofcourse it will burst some time and would cause pain at large till the correction takes place and then things would be normal! :)
Though for sure we must try and counter it so as to minimise the pain , Education , the "buzz" word is the key! We have discussed Education in previous posts , so I leave it there! :)

5) I would like to draw the role of Editors on this section. Rinku's post was a real nice one but I found one line as maligning "tricks of these brahmans and baniyas to malign our race in one way or others"!
We must try and not write/think on these lines not only because we should be diplomatic but because this is an absolute waste of energy! Finger pointing , cribbing , blame game is no solution. And while being in this globalised world , we must not be very caste specific , Ofcourse we can do positive discrimination for our caste and which I guess every one does , we do positive discrimination among our siblings , parents , family , friends , then at caste level , then at village level , then at much bigger levels and then probably it ends at country level!
Yes that is justified but this practice should not propogate negative discrimination for other caste/races.

Also this brings forward that perhaps the Editor do not go through the post fully and with care! :)

6) This leadership thing pops up again in our discussion , I would say I do not deny the importance and the positive aftereffects of a great leader but in the absense, let us think small. Let us be small social/cultural/financial entreprenuers ourselves , that would create engines of growth in our working areas. Think of ideas to help the villages , try and draw work plans in remote places!

7) Use of Site : I reiterate that such social platforms can be levered greatly to produce mammoth project plans/resources , people from such diverse backgrounds / knowledge can be of great help in thinking things from all perspectives and of course can generate one hell of resources.
The only thing that we need to do is to utilize things in proper way , a leadership , a credibility in what we think/plan ( Again I say that there ain't any need of a big master plan , a small initiative can be later turned into a big one :) )! Without taking names , I would say I am a part of a initiative that started off Orkut and people do have a feeling that Orkut is very less authentic than a paltform such as Jatland! We are at least making differences in lives of two dozen students , that is better than nothing , is not it ? We can do similar things in our villages , a collective effort from the people that have credibility , our senior members , our Admins is what we all need.
And there are opportunities to substantiate the already going efforts of Jan Jagriti led by Navin. Being in position we find oursleves , we are expected not only to transfer resources by ourselves ( This is the place where people restrict their imagination and start straying and then loose it completely!) , We are engines to transfer resources , There is no dearth of resources to exploit , it is just that they should reach where they ought to be!
A very small initiative by ourselves generated more than 50 k by our own contributions ( JL Support fund ) , Imagine if everyone of us does a fundraiser with the people that we associate personally / professionally/socially!
Not only we can work for the actual social works , we can plan cultural /social upliftment , do campaigns , implement our ideas! :)

PS: I am just citing financial examples to give a realistic view , we can do similar efforts in terms of getting human resources and other intellectual resources etc.

=============

That is all for today , happy to discuss personally / on forum. Please be free to criticise ,
Critics are my best friends!
( Nindak niyare raakhiye , aangan kuti chavaaye , bin paani saabun bina , nirmal kade suhaaye! :) ).


Regards,
Anil

pscil
October 19th, 2008, 07:09 PM
Hello Anil let me clarify what I meant for forgetting and forgiving. There is a saying that you should not be that sweet that people drink you up nor than bitter that people spit you out. You need moderation.

Our history of the last 800 years has been one of domination and slavery. We are today also the slaves of our environment with all the evils that continue to dominate us. All this has been possible because we never learnt from history. Those who do not learn from history commit the same mistakes, which their ancestors committed. What is required is first to conqueror the self, because most jat organizations are today dominated by people seeking office rather than service to the community. We are like the rajput kings who fought amongst themselves, while the mugals slowly divided and conquered them. We need a pan India jat movement and vision, the seeds of the revolution need to be sown now.

What is really required is to set up a model with the best practices and standards and then replicate it on a larger scale. We are wallowing in ignorance and darkness as a community. Those who have seen the light now need to take it to our less fortunate brothers.

poonamchaudhary
October 22nd, 2008, 10:06 AM
Upliftment of jats lies in education and awareness.It is the only remedy of the problem of backwardness. Let we be positive and acknowledge that education is spreading its roots though slowly. But then changes do not occur overnight.Let it take its own course and do not be pessimistic in the meantime. The question than arises as to what kind of education is required and Wether the present education system sufficient?.

>Yes this education system has its own drawbacks.But i beg to differ from the statement that this education system is making us slaves.

Why cant we get over the colonial hangover??

We are no more being colonised by anyone and todays realities are different from the times of British rule.Equations have changed and we have to change our thinking accordingly.Only then will we be able to keep pace with this fast changing world.
Political movement,education & awrenes are required if we wish to change our present condition. Theremust be some effective leaders to represent the community and its problems. ButI give more weightage to education.Education is the tool which can bring about more stabilising and long term positive changes. Acheivement of a well educated community will be half the battle won.


Political representation should be goal oriented rather than be there just for sake of flaunting in the name of community. Letme make it more clear...we had leaders and perhaps still have them but they largely failed to bring about the desired changes. They ended up as being mere a show off of our false jat ego. Iam apologetic if anybody's inflated ego is hurt. But let be honest and acknowledge that our jat ego is at times so pronounced that we become blind to other points of views.


In the end i will only say that we have no dearth of talent and will power. The world lies there before us to be conquered.Lets do it.

Samarkadian
October 31st, 2008, 01:47 AM
The question than arises as to what kind of education is required and Wether the present education system sufficient?.

>Yes this education system has its own drawbacks.But i beg to differ from the statement that this education system is making us slaves.

Why cant we get over the colonial hangover??

We are no more being colonised by anyone and todays realities are different from the times of British rule.Equations have changed and we have to change our thinking accordingly.Only then will we be able to keep pace with this fast changing world.
Political movement,education & awrenes are required if we wish to change our present condition. Theremust be some effective leaders to represent the community and its problems. ButI give more weightage to education.Education is the tool which can bring about more stabilising and long term positive changes. Acheivement of a well educated community will be half the battle won.


Political representation should be goal oriented rather than be there just for sake of flaunting in the name of community. Letme make it more clear...we had leaders and perhaps still have them but they largely failed to bring about the desired changes. They ended up as being mere a show off of our false jat ego. Iam apologetic if anybody's inflated ego is hurt. But let be honest and acknowledge that our jat ego is at times so pronounced that we become blind to other points of views.



Poonam, present education system, if you take in the light of being literiate and possesion of a degree is partly successful but failed in providing desired direction to the society. Yes! it has produced the same things what once Lord Mclay had thought over.Failure of this system is significantly visible when you see the number of 'successful' degree holders ratio. Morever, education system should be capable to imbibe basic awareness about a citizen's role in country's development. Today any school going kid must be knowing about latest video games or next Harry Potter series but hardly have any idea about Panchtantra. A Jat or non-jat both have failed here, they may have degree of certain professional or simple education but they cant be said literate enough.What was Authentic Indian education system? All we read and study has its roots from British era. I would be glad if anyone can throw some light. Rabinder Nath Tagore's Shanti Niketan was a great move to produce aware citizens but the success of it has not been replicated anywhere.Though field is empty and virgin to explore to create such an institute from where future resposible citizen/leaders can be produced.It would require the like minded crazy people who wish to work full time for such a work.

No!! We are not getting over colonial hangover. Everything even in daily chores is related with colonial hangover. World as a whole is turning in to one culture which is 'Western Culture'.Correct me If I'm wrong here. Civilization in the present times is not existing anymore.

Political movement !! I would like to re-phrase it to the 'Mass Movement' but again question arises amind party politics scenario, do we really have such mass- leaders who tends to show such vision. ? Neither at National level nor at Regional one just in archives and that too filled with dust.

Yes! when we talk of Jats, obvious thing come in mind is 'Sarv-khap' Panchyayats which are supposed to be oldest system of Jats.In Modern times, sad to say, this has been degraded to the base. They could have ignite the mass movement but leaders their seems to be from alien land.They would smoke tobacco of lakh's worth but wont reach at any conclusion. I can guess they all do have sheer desire to be recognised politically and this is hall mark of downfall.This Khap Panchayt system is alone capable to change things as they have their reach to roots but either they are illusioned or delusioned because reservation is the only issue they can maximamlly visionise.This indicated towards a brink where either they would be thrown from this oldest sangh or this system would loose the significance which has already started in last three or more decades.

Yes! We HAD leaders like of Sir Chottu Ram and Ch Bansilal, Ch Sahib Singh Verma. Rest contemporary are merely politicians or party workers.I would not be agreed with your EGO thing of Jats. I would tag it insecurity shield in changing times.

Being hopeful and pessimistic is a good virtue but sometime it may make one hopeless.




2) About the incident Rinku mentioned that the guy did not know his mother and grandmother gotras. This is what I call a curse(coule be worse in future?)on the educated section of our community. Loosing touch with the base is worse that can happen. We are the elite , the so called cream , If we forget our roots , neglect the responsibility we have , forget what we owe to our society at large , who else will? We all must appreciate that social responsibility is a duty , it should not be a leisure/time paas / low priority thing. It should be taken more seriously. Reminded of a quote from an IITian who was a topper some 15 years back and opted for social service : He said " The social sector needs INTELLIGNET people ".





4) Samar's point of female foeticide , well mate , its a bubble (is not it ?), it will burst , though as with all bubbles it will pain! I have this wild interest of correlating everything with life , is not this something like a housing bubble we just saw go burst in US , the leverage bubble

6) Let us be small social/cultural/financial entreprenuers ourselves , that would create engines of growth in our working areas. Think of ideas to help the villages , try and draw work plans in remote places!

7) Use of Site : Without taking names , I would say I am a part of a initiative




Anil,

We are not elite yet. Eliteness doesnt come with ignorance at all. It comes with richness in every aspect.Social responsiblity!! yes! Rightly said, but how many of us really THINK that Bhagat Singh should be( should not be!) from our own home? How many Jat mothers do support this crazy idea? Social responsiblity is a full time career not even a job.Either one is in it or one is just pretending to be a social servant.

Yes!! Social sector needs intelligent folks but you forget to mention one word Strong minded Intelligent people other wise Intelligent people tends to write good speeches and selling them online or so.Intelligent people who possess nerves of steel because moronic crowd would tend to easily belittle the efforts of intelligent folks initially.Simply intelligent people's intellect may find it useless to waste time over partly animals crowd of human.


US financial has already bursted and my guess , to an extent beyond repair.
More important example is their messed society.Here in terms of female foeticide, they have more than 51% single mothers. What does it indicate? A Developed culture or degraded one? What is the use of education which just talks of liberty but at every corner you are under scrutiny by CCTVs.

Point 6 of your post really talk some sense about enterprenurship.May be you have some idea of three things you have mentioned: i.e

Social

Cultural

Financial.

I would really love to read any significant plan/vision you or anyone you have for above ENTERPRENEURSHIP term. If not, we can start it from here.

Use of site: Yes Navin and you have taken a Herculian task in hand because you have conscience to comprehend about giving back. How many members have really supported you morally first. Navin bhai is living example of inspiration to all of us but how many JATs of this site who frequently sing the songs of Jat n blah blah have contributed in any capacity towards these noble causes. Most of the people wouldnt mind killing time on sensational thread but hardly on ground.Here , I would say that you can only improve or motivate people who wants to. Strength is the answer.Some is inherited, some of it would be gained as life's boat would keep on moving.

poonamchaudhary
October 31st, 2008, 07:18 PM
If we discuss the drawbacks of our education system, there are many and believe me they are here to stay at least in the near future. The reason is that we ourselves promote it. I will cite some examples...many people feel it a matter of pride when their little children recite english rhymes rather than poems of any hindi poet. Look at the matrimonial ads and a phrase that you will generally find there is "convent educated".It is so silly..but is there. Do you think with such attitude we will be able to reform our education system?

I have my doubts. The problem is not language or medium of instruction rather its the way of thinking. There are so many biases and prejudices in our society such as preference of science over arts, english over hindi, convent schools over govt. run schools and so on. What happens as a result of these prejudices is that the thing we are prejudiced against lags behind. Development when occurs should occur in all the aspects. It should take care of all and everything.

Another disease in our education system is mindless reservations and quotas. Deserving candidates suffer as a result of it and become disillusioned and many undeserving and less meritorious students get the seats. There can be other ways of ensuring the percolation of education down to every strata of society instead of these reservations which have become mere instruments for political parties to garner votes. This much for education system.

Corruption and degradation of values are infesting our society today. People have become more materialistic and individualistic in the present times. Most of them want to fulfill their own selfish ends rather than working for betterment of society. I will give my own example here...i hear of my grandfathers(i didnt see them) who were big landlords and worked for poor people,stood by them and helped them in every possible ways. They were the "pradhan" of village panchayat and did what the head of a panchayat should do. But today the scenario has completely changed and those altruistic motives are missing. Today i hear that most of the people fight the panchayat elections with the motive of misappropriation of funds that are given for village development. This is the extent to which our values have degraded and this is the extent to which corruption has spreaded in the system.

If i am asked to come up with answers to these problems...i can only say that we should start at our own level. Let each one of us pledge to become a better human being, cling to our values and free our minds from narrow,mindless prejudices. And then it will become inconsequential whether we are following a western culture or an oriental culture. Good human beings can exist in any culture.

anilsinghd
November 8th, 2008, 08:24 PM
Satisfying to see new faces each time when reading the thread! :)

Poonam in other thread mentioned about little participation , but I am sure she will appreciate that the quality ain't missing. And some more time on the site can probably make her realize on the "why" of things! :)

Meanwhile happy to see her problem and then moving towards solution approach which is very essential as dwelling around the problems with a negative mindset does not achieve anything!

Also whole heartedly agreed with her Each one do little ! kind of approach to move towards a better society. That is for sure the bare minimum!

Perhaps the "waht can we do more ? " would be answerd subsequently in the post of mine and/or in the course of discussion.


Samar , what needs to be done on the education front has already been discussed by me in the first post of mine in the thread , I do not have to add anything to that , a creative approach to education is the way going forward.
I kind of disagree with you when you are a bit harsh on the move to a "Western Culture". I would rather put it as the confluence of the cultures and now it comes to be seen who has the major influence ? If we are strong enough , we should be able to retain more of "ours" than adopt "theirs". :) Should not we ? ( Seems like it is in consonance with your Strong , steel nerved personality ).

Good to see that word "Mass - Movement " from you , else I would have coined it. That is the "should be " way! Being my optimistic self and also understanding the reality that it ain't coming frm the political leaders , I would say it would come from the people! :) This won't be routine kind of , it would be different! The discontent in the "elite" and their disillusionment would lead it! Entreprenurial activities will pick up going forward , take my word ( yeah , that is not typical mathematician , but ! )

You mentioned about insecurity , i add resistance to change as well , being a behaviourist , I would say it is difficult for the older section to change their thinking because they have been practising the same for ages now!

I would not disagree with you when you said we are not elite , but rather say that my intent was hidden and probably deserved an explanation/characterisation of the elite I was referreing to ! You did it excellently ! Yo da man! :)
Some time back I picked up this one liner ( I am not sure I r ead it somewhere or I created it :confused:) : Ignorance is not lack of knowledge , it is the lack of culture. If you read my post again with this in hindsight you will realise we two converge , dont we ?!


Vision/Ideas of the entrepreneurship in Social/Cultural/Financial sectors , well I have plans ( forged by the confluence of thoughts of self and a couple more like minded people ). I would wish to disclose them near the conclusion of the discussion , so as to gather new ideas as well from people! An initial line of thinking could be to mobilise all those willing people , lets discuss how ? :)

A very simple suggestion would be to mobilise the members here itself to some real ground work and/or asking them to do the same with others. Each one if can others to be involved , we can form geat chains. There is no dearth of willingness , it is just that one has to inculcate enough enthusiasm. Navin's help would be the first step , I am trying my best to do that , it would in itself be a big project to get people to be assocaited with the cause. Yes , I know of the efforts of the past and their results , but then I also know this : " Karat karat abhyaas ke jadmati hot sujaan , rasri aavat jaat te , sil par parat nisaan! "

Try , try and try again! :)

poonamchaudhary
November 11th, 2008, 12:05 AM
[quote=anilsinghd;187217]Satisfying to see new faces each time when reading the thread! :)

Poonam in other thread mentioned about little participation , but I am sure she will appreciate that the quality ain't missing. And some more time on the site can probably make her realize on the "why" of things! :)

Meanwhile happy to see her problem and then moving towards solution approach which is very essential as dwelling around the problems with a negative mindset does not achieve anything!

Also whole heartedly agreed with her Each one do little ! kind of approach to move towards a better society. That is for sure the bare minimum!

Yes Anil i do appreciate that quality is not missing here in these threads. And i am on my way to know the "why" of things here.:) Anyways your analysis of the problems and quick jump onto the solutions is appreciable. Good to see someone who is ever ready to come up with new ideas and take plunge to implement them as well. I myself would like to come up with new ideas and solutions but after some time.

As of now i will only dwell on a few points...in order to march in the right direction to bring difference to the society, the first step is understanding the problems that we face. We need to understand the "what" and "why" of the problems. We must try to find out the nature of the problems before us and their root cause. For this volunteers from different fields must come ahead and it would be good if they are led by people who are achievers in their own fields. When intellectuals and renowned people will club together a knowledge base will be created which is essential in chalking out plans for the future.

After this comes the step of spreading awareness among the people which can be done by the volunteers. Majority of people are still living in villages and are not much aware about the changes taking place in the world/society. An informed public is a power in itself and so this spreading of awareness becomes very important. Various means can be employed for this like media, NGOs and grassroot level institutions such as village panchayats.

After this comes mass mobilization about which Anil too has discussed. And mass mobilisation should be easy in a community like of jats which is still quiet united. Anil has emphasized that a movement of people is better than any political movement...very true but some kind of political leadership is essential and i will add that politics in itself is not a negative term. Some bad examples do not mean that the entire system is faulty. A political representation is essential because to attain some ends we need to depend upon the political machinery too. We simply cannot do away with it.

In the end i would say that action speaks louder than words and so the only way to do something is only to do.

annch
November 16th, 2008, 05:53 AM
Samar ji,
#WHY the sons of soil are facing such a problem?
-Issues: with the agricultural sector
1)Decreasing Land Holdings that are not good enough for sustenance, leave aside generating wealth.
2)Growing debt
3) Poor Land reform policies, and the short sighted Debt Relief and waiver Policies of the government.
-Issues: with the mindset
1) Prefer to sell land and make quick money in the short run.
2) An average person in a village does not think of an alternate source of income after the sale of land.
3) Source of recreation for these nouveau rich in the villages - Liquor Stalls. (Even Prohibition in Haryana could not stop these from flourishing)
-Issues: with our Politics. ( I have deliberately used the word-Politics and not "Political System")
It would be utopia when it became by the people, of the people and for the people.

Solution:
1) You said it, UNITY, a unity of spirit, direction and vision, a unity of purpose, a unity of efforts, and most of all a UNITY that would transcend personal/materialistic gains. I guess we are all waiting for that tipping scale when a crisis would unite us. Otherwise UNITY is a woolly mammoth.

2) Education: I agree with you. Education or lack of it does not impact our intentions and sense of purpose. People who had the sense of purpose have still reached where they wanted to be, may be later than sooner, but they have. It is not lack of education, but may be lack of involvement of "educated people" in the endevors for social, cultural, and economic upliftment that makes Vision for Jats a "Movement in awaiting".

3) Integration of rural and urban economies. A case study of Punjab's Green Revolution or Gujrat's White revolution are the best examples of this. Also, many of the farmers in Punjab have diversified into processing besides producing fruits and vegetables. They are also supplying vegetables to the MNCs (e.g tomatoes to Hienz Ketchup, potatoes to Mcdonald, etc), etc etc...

If I consider myself "son/ daughter of the soil", then I have to go back to my grass roots, where it all began, in the Villages. Thats why my emphasis was on our villages/ agriculture .Thank you

Regards,



In the ordinary course of nature thousands upon thousands are born every day, but he alone is truly born whose birth leads to the elevation of his race. --- Ch. Chottu Ram.

These lines from the legendary and visionary Jat which is signature line of a respected member , inspired me to start this thread. Many times while
Thanks.
:)

dr_gulia
November 29th, 2008, 05:49 PM
1. Understand that there is problem, landholding is shrinking ( as posted eralier).
2. There are large number of unemployed youths. We need to utilise them, provide them the necessary skills. Our political leaders or society should expose them to vocational training. Teach them English. Train them for the skills that we get them jobs like in retail, call centre ( not joking---- we can work hard to smoothen the Haryanavi accent):rock
3. Educate our girls, that will improve the family and most importantly next generation
4. We have to lend helping each other, use positive discrimination for the fellow Jats
5. keep up our values i.e liberal attitude, honesty, hard working, simplicity ( if it is still left)
6. Make concoius efforts to keep our youth to stay away from booze, drugs etc
7. Lastly regarding Malika Sehrawat;;;;;; hats off to her, at least she is not pretending like others. She knows her job and confident and honest about it

pscil
December 6th, 2008, 06:36 PM
Man is a product of his environment but people who achieve greatness transcend their environment. It is always mind over matter as in the Indian philosophy, compared to matter over mind of the western culture. Today the domination of the western culture with its consumerist behavior is the root cause of evils that are retarding the cultural renaissance of our society. We have become weak and timid and mindless robots. Nothing moves us not even an incident like mumbai massacare.We has to control our environment and not be controlled by it. Because if you let circumstances control you, you sooner or later no longer have a mind of your own.

To start a movement for the jats, the first step we need to take is to set up an organization in a structured way that could be the starting point. We could then follow the Plan do check action (PDCA) cycle to achieve our objectives. We need to put up a time frame and proper measurements for the progress of the organization. Otherwise we can keep indulging in armchair discussions, till the cows come home.

I have seen young brilliant boys and girls with a vision and maybe they can plug into the experiences of people like us who are not so young. The idea in short is to set objectives and consistently meet those objectives, within a time frame. So who will bell the cat?

sampuran
December 6th, 2008, 10:34 PM
Samar Bhai RamRam.

After a long time a relevant and serious discussion in the forum.

I could not agree any more with your thoughts. There are two prominent problem areas. First is education, as you have pointed out yourself. Having inherited a system designed by British to produce people with low calibre (intellectual assimilation and will power) we didn't do much to change. In fact, it has been effectively ruined. Thats the state of govt schools. Private ones are money minting factories. But there are institutions like J Krishnamurthy schools, Aurobindo Ashram, etc that aim to produce wholesome human beings and not just professionals. Unfortunately, DAV movement itself has lost the moral compass.
The following article is for people who'd like to know exact ills of our education.

The intellectual scene in Post-independence India:A speech of S. Gurumurthy given to IIT Chennai
http://psenthilraja.wordpress.com/2008/09/02/the-intellectual-scene-in-post-independence-india/#more-135

Second problem is leaderhip. One can only speculate what would have happened had Gandhi not asked Patel to forgo the post of PM for Nehru Or had Bose been alive. Barring two shades of brilliance, i.e. Shahstri and Rao, we have not had even mediocre leadership. Ch Charan Singh stayed for too short a time to make any long term effect. Indira lost whatever she earned because of Emergency. Today one just wonders whether we have reached the nadir or this abyss is deeper !

We need leadership at every level, from family to panna to village to society. Political leadership is really bad.

If Jats have to progress as a community, there is no short cut. Reservations may make short term sense or help some limited no of people, but can one community progress when this issue is pulling the whole country itself backwards ?

Urgent need is to inculcate the sense of self-pride and citizenship. Either we stand together OR invite collective doom.





Tarphu karma jus viranga taru kate mare na jaise
Sadhan kare vichar heen mun, shubd hova na kaise

Due to his karmas man becomes like a young warrior who lies bleeding to death on the battlefield. This reason for this is that the lower or baser mind concentrates only on material gratification, so why should it not lead to depression and pain.
When a man is young he is like the seasonal river, which gushes with exuberance and makes a great noise only for it to dry up, like in old age, when the rains stop. The man who realizes this has known the permanent from the temporary.
Management is all about going from facts to theory and never vice versa. It is like the Indian thought which is based on the inductive logic which goes from the particular to the general, unlike the western thought which is based on deductive logic in which you go from the general to the particular.

The greatest reason for our slavery has been that our strength, compassion and love, which has led to building stable families and our deep philosophy, has also led to forgiving and forgetting very easily. We have never really punished the perpetuators of the most heinous crimes in our history. Our strength has thus become our weakness. Too much of misapplied goodness is counterproductive. One should first analyze, who he is applying his good intentions to.
I do not know the key to success but I can tell you the key to failure and that is trying to please everyone.

Parvir ji very noble and clear thoughts !

When strengths become dogma, they become liability. In Mahabharat, repeatedly, Bhishm and Dronacharya failed to grow out of their own 'pratigyas' and we had the bloody war. Any of them could have called Dhritrashtr and Duryodhan's bluff, but civility and dharam came in the way. Our fore-fathers failed to realise the different nature of threat that Islam and British (Christianity) posed. They still played by rules, whereas the adversaries had no compunctions. But our ancestors still kept fighting and survived.

We won't.

pscil
December 8th, 2008, 02:42 AM
Dear Sampuranji

If we won't survive then we don't have the right to exist anyway. But if we have to survive what we need is self confidence, which comes only from setting up concrete and clear objectives and consistently meeting them. Time as usual is the important determinant what you can achieve today may not be possible tomorrow. Lets us also look at the unified theory of matter, now advocated by people like Stephen Hawkins but clearly illustrated by Yog Vasistha.
Vasistha is an ancient scripture narrated by sage Vasistha to Rama. A unique and an extremely profound discourse, that provides innumerable insights and secrets to the inner world of consciousness. It covers all the topics that relate to the spiritual study of a seeker.
This scripture is a must read for anyone trying to understand the concepts of consciousness, creation of the world, the multiple universes in this world, our perception of world, dissolution of the world and the liberation of this soul.
Yoga Vasistha propounds that everything from the blade of grass to the universes is all but consciousness alone. There is nothing else but consciousness. It expounds the non-dual approach to this creation.
Just as the blue sky is an optical illusion this entire world and the creation is but such an optical illusion. When the illusion ends in the mind, the world and its miseries too end. The self is the seer of all, the self is the perceiver of all and the self is the experiencer of all. And that self is only one. There is no two; there is no subject, seer and the object. It is all one.
Another oft repeated verse in the text is that of Kakathaliya (coincidence). The story of how a crow alights on a coconut tree and that very moment the ripe coconut falls on the ground. The two events are apparently related, yet the crow never intended the coconut to fall nor did the coconut fall because the crow sat on the tree. The intellect mistakes the two events as related, though in reality they are not.
All of creation is the play of consciousness. As an unenlightened person may have a desire for action, and then perceives himself doing action, the two are unrelated as the crow and the coconut. Consciousness is the actor, the action, the process and the witness of action.

pscil
December 12th, 2008, 12:37 PM
All Mediterranean religions are based on the concept of duality, since they emerge in an antagonistic setting and their philosophy is guided by this antagonism. Compare this to the Indian thought, which has developed in a more serene setting of the Indian environment. While the Mediterranean thoughts lead to duality and conflict, domination and conquest; the Indian thought leads to universal brotherhood; it is based on harmony not conflict. Let us examine the concept of these fundamentals in the Yog Vasistha and Being and nothingness of Jean Paul Sartre.
We begin with the unified theory of matter, now advocated by people like Stephen Hawkins but clearly illustrated by Yog Vasistha. This scripture is a must read for anyone trying to understand the concepts of consciousness, creation of the world, the multiple universes in this world, our perception of world, dissolution of the world and the liberation of the human being.
Yoga Vasistha propounds that everything from the blade of grass to the universe is all but consciousness alone. There is nothing else but consciousness. It expounds the non-dual approach to this creation.
Just as the blue sky is an optical illusion this entire world and the creation is but such an optical illusion. When the illusion ends in the mind, the world and its miseries too end. The self is the seer of all, the self is the perceiver of all and the self is the experiencer of all. And that self is only one. There is no two; there is no subject, seer and the object. It is all one. This is completely opposite to the dualistic notion of Rene Descartes in which mind and body are treated as distinct. Cogito ergo sum (I Think; therefore I am)
Another oft repeated verse in the text is that of Kakathaliya (coincidence). The story of how a crow alights on a coconut tree and that very moment the ripe coconut falls on the ground. The two events are apparently related, yet the crow never intended the coconut to fall nor did the coconut fall because the crow sat on the tree. The intellect mistakes the two events as related, though in reality they are not.
All of creation is the play of consciousness. As an unenlightened person may have a desire for action, and then perceives himself doing action, the two are unrelated as the crow and the coconut. Consciousness is the actor, the action, the process and the witness of action.

Sartre's existentialist understanding of what it is to be human can be summarized in his view that the “underlying motivation for action is to be found in the nature of consciousness which is a desire for being”. It is up to each agent to exercise his freedom in such a way that he does not lose sight of his existence as a facticity, as well as a free human being. In so doing, he will come to understand more about the original choice which his whole life represents, and thus about the values that are thereby projected. Such an understanding is only obtained through living this particular life and avoiding the pitfalls of strategies of self-deceit. This authentic option for human life represents the realization of a universal in the singularity of a human life. In other words the non duality of matter or the unified theory of matter.

kapdal
December 22nd, 2008, 09:36 PM
I am new to the forum (probably quite old, but have not been active). This is the first thread I have gone through. Several interesting view points, but I think the discussion has become too abstract. What vision are we aiming at: social, political or economic? Or an all encompassing one? Some members seem to be dismayed with cultural/social degeneration of our caste (because of 'western' education amongst other things) while some are more worried about the economic underdevelopment. My observation is that any form of economic development would lead to social changes. And not everyone would be happy with that (as can be observed here). The difference needs to be appreciated. It is a utopian thought to 'preserve' our great culture (through a different pattern of education or other such remedies suggested here), while also dealing with socio-economic problems like literacy, sex-ratio, dependence on agriculture, etc. I don't think it can be achieved- I don't think that it should be the priority anyways. The socio-economic problems are 'development' issues and if we take pragmatic steps to solve them (which I believe we should), there would be social changes that some people would not be happy with.

We are talking about unity and mass movement, but to what aim? Even if I discount the sheer improbability of a mass movement, one has to think that a movement without an aim can spectacularly backfire. In Indian context, I can think of only 2 popular mass movements in the last century- one for freedom and one by JP, and both had clear aims. The latter actually did misfire eventually once emergency was removed and the new government turned out to be worse. Even a smaller movement has a great risk of providing cannon fodder, if one thinks of gujjar/naxal type movements. They start with lofty aims, but degenerate into sheer nonsense.

In any case, I don't think the situation is too desperate to demand a revolution. There are several things that can be improved, there always would be. Fully agree with some of the points made on making education available to more people. Of course, there are problems in the 'education system', but clearly the bigger issue is that even that flawed system is not available to the masses. You may find several faults with the private schools, but at least the quality of education is much better than what's available to the masses. That's the reason why the more educationally oriented parents in towns like Rohtak, Bhiwani, Sonepat, etc. send their children to private schools. As atleast their kids have a chance to compete after that. What chance do kids from government schools have- there would always be some occasional success stories, but they would always be rare. Fortunately, our caste is itself realizing the importance of education, even people in villages want their kids to get good education, the problem is that they don't have access to it. To an extent, that takes away the importance of raising awareness on the issue (though for girl child I think it still can't be over emphasised), however the problem of quality education at affordable price is massive. I think if anyone takes any steps to remedy this, at howsoever small a level, it is an achievement that can not be over appreciated. There are several other things that can and should be done- like building roads, creating good alternatives to agriulture, providing good health care and sanitation, but none of these are specific to our caste, and have to be tackled at the level of the state. What we can and must do is to demand more from our elected representatives, and vote for the best person (or the less worse one).

One issue that is definitely specific to our caste is the sex ratio, something we should all be ashamed of. The extent to which the want of a male child in our society goes is obnoxious. I have seen it personally, amongst all sorts of people, the urban as well as the rural, the educated as well as the illiterate. We must oppose it, whereever we see it.

And lastly, for god's sake, let's not ask for reservations. It would do no good to us, make us weaker (imagine a lion that doesn't have to hunt and is fed on dead chicken) and would be a blot on our society.

deepika
December 31st, 2008, 03:42 PM
Every movement starts from one individual and is followed by the rest.So now its my turn to be a part of this wonderful discussion :)The success,growth and development of a team,group or say community depends on the degree of determination and ability each individual has to put his or her best towards it.It doesn't matter how we feel abt certain things but what we do actually to make a difference to it.And ofcourse it all depends especially on youth crowd.But the problem is that most of us dont think of welfare of humankind but we are running blindly behind our own ambitions in life.Not many of us are willing to leave layer of selfishness that we have.I remember a few years back i heared of some proposal which required all MBBS freshers to work in villages for one year.But it was condemned(but i think Bengal Govt has made it mandatory).Young crowd is not willing to work in rural areas but want to work in cities and abroad to make big bucks.I wont give someone elses' example when mine is there.Once i decided of teaching orphans but after a few days i stopped even thinking abt it.And i am sure its the case with most of us we are willing to bring some change but then we dont really focuss on that one to make things happen.Some of us might feel bad about child marriage,female feticide,corrupt system,bad political system and a lot more issues but we do nothing about it.We all are being ignorant as we keep thinking that"I alone can't bring a change".I strongly believe that we all need to change our vision.We can actually do wonders if we put our energy and efforts in the right direction.


[QUOTE=Samarkadian;177748]In the ordinary course of nature thousands upon thousands are born every day, but he alone is truly born whose birth leads to the elevation of his race. --- Ch. Chottu Ram.

navingulia
February 2nd, 2009, 09:46 AM
Dear Friends,
my observation and understanding-
Jats are more bound to their genes and genetic behavioral compulsions than others. (impulsive, irritability, undiplomatic, hard work, tough conditions bring out the best in them)
The reason for above can be traced their profession over the generations in history has been farming and war.
The scenario is changing today. The vast energy that has got programmed into their genes due to sweat and toil of centuries, now needs to be channelised in a more academic/intellectual/sophisticated manner.
Through generations Jat has stood as a single strong entity. He had his own land, his own food that he produced, self reliant. But now he needs to understand the advantage of the greater common good rather than individual benefits.
The points Jats need to learn:-
1. Unity - its advantage. In unity every one's views cant be implemented but everyone should pool in the energy for common good.
2. A decision taken as impulse or in an excited state of anger/irritation can never be correct. Only a calm mind can take correct decisions. Anger and hate is a waste of precious energy and time.
3. Communicaton - right words, decent language, efficient communication.
4. Presentation - you should be able to present yourself well. other person will gauge you by what you present and not by what you are.
5. Mutual appreciation and encouragement does wonders. Leg pulling might seem fun and impulse may guide you to leg pulling, it can never get positive results. Criticism can never encourage, appreciation always encourages.
6. Make yourself worthy of appreciation.
7. React in perspective and need based, dont over react. Respond less, work more.
8. pulling other person down is an urge but a better option is to work hard and try to do better.
9. jats shouldnt feel proud and possessive about rude way of talking. learning to be a gentleman is education.

Thanks
navin gulia

deepakchoudhry
February 2nd, 2009, 02:10 PM
People always complain but noone wants to act.

On this website itself....

1) There are role models
2) There are leaders
3) There are exceptional individuals

Lot of good work is happening, please support them first.

The problem is in the system not in the individual, Change the system.

pscil
February 16th, 2009, 09:31 PM
Let us examine then, the Western term "Philo-sophy" and its Eastern equivalent in the classical language of India, Sanskrit; and even at the outset we meet with fundamental contrasts. For the Greek term philo-sophia means literally "love of sophia" of human reason, measure, of judgment and discrimination. On the other hand, the Sanskrit term for philosophy is anu-iksiki, the "survey of, literally the look along (anu), all things/' which means "along all existent facts." Thus contemplation of reality, not discrimination in a rational order, is the cardinal aimof Indian Philosophy, the Sanskrit name of which means no more than synopsis, comprehensive view and receptive contemplation. Further evidence of the profound gulf between East and West is provided by another fundamental philosophical term. Our word "system" (systema) is literally "putting together," in a rational order. It was Aristotle, the founder and organizer of Western exact science, a post-Sophistic scholar and the first great genuinely Western Philosopher, who invented the goal of unity and of final liberation from the fiction of isolated existence. And thus India's conclusion is not cogito ergo sum but: In spite of my reasoning I exist just as do all other accidental manifestations of the primeval unity. Everything is rooted in static Reality, that vast reservoir from which all emerges and in which everything will be finally immersed, thus relapsing into immanent and genuine unity.

We shall thus discover how unequal were the respective contributions of East and West to each of these domains. Each subject is differently valued in the Occident and the Orient, and has therefore been developed with greater or less success. The West has, for example, and with excellent results, concentrated on the exact sciences Physics, Astronomy and Mathematics, together with social problems; India, on the other hand, has made more valuable contributions to Metaphysics. In short, the West has elaborated the best systematic framework of thought, while India's natural task is to keep this framework sufficiently elastic to embrace all possibilities of
thought, equally those already realized and those not yet foreseen.

Indian arithmetic similarly has its own special complexion, the concept of zero being due not to abstract mathematical deduction, but to empirical observations of polarity in Nature and their application to Ontology and Metaphysics: zero then implying no definite size, or the non-dimensional and the all-dimensional. Accordingly the mathematicians (e.g. Bhaskaracarya) identify Sunya (zero) with Nirvana.

Doubtful instrument, his reasoning mind, Man continues to use it to increase the accuracy and efficiency of his technical methods, overstraining his brain in restless search for still farther-reaching discoveries. Leisure is no longer left for solitude devoted to fruitful meditation and humble expectation of divine intuition; but it was only the quiet of a culture, knowing no time restrictions, that could give birth to India's intuitive vision.

Summing up, then, in the West two strangely contradictory attempts to overcome the moral, political and economic dilemma of the present day predominate: on the one hand, an exaggerated
rationalism; on the other, an equally exaggerated and forced emotionalism assuming the guise of political, religious, scientific and artistic movements; Direr's dictum, therefore, is still valid for the West: "Art is hidden in Nature; snatch it from her grasp and it is yours.

Both alike, however, are inevitable developments, and perhaps the final consequences, of the primal anthropological idea, even though they may also be reactions from this. But in no event will the changeable West ever return to an undisturbed harmony with any earthly cosmos. For India's collectivism and non-individualism, her relativity of values and sense of infinity, are all naturally antipathetic to the spasmodic actions and reactions of the West. Any apparent rapprochement, therefore, really removes both types of culture further apart, and increasingly reveals their inherently different tendencies. In the West the antitheses are never harmonized, but simply indicate painful attempts to terminate transient struggles. The exaggeration of both mechanical production and emotional stresses constitutes a contrast which is not recognized by Nature herself. We seem driven to conclude, therefore, that the divergent lines of West and East belong to wholly different planes, so that even if they sometimes appear to converge, still they will never meet.

ARVINDJANGU
May 25th, 2009, 02:39 PM
भाई समर आज हमारी कौम के लोग उस महान आदमी की शिक्षाओ को भूल कर बहुत बड़ी भूल कर रहे हैं | मैंने चौ.छोटूराम जी ओहल्याण के बारे काफी पढा हैं | उनको जो समझ लेगा उसे किसी और शिक्षा की जरुरत नहीं |
जाट एक भोली भाल्ली जज्बाती कौम हैं | हम अक्सर कहते हैं के "हनुमान जाट था ( था भी, बाना गोत्री जाट था , हमारे इतिहासकार यह सिद्ध भी कर चुके हैं ) क्योंकि घराली किसे की , आग लगाईं किसे न | इसा काम एक जाट ऐ कर सके स " | बीराणी आफत एक जाट ऐ मौल ले सके स और किसे के बस की बात कोणी ,या बात सही भी स क्योकि जाट किसे दुसरे का गम नहीं देख सकता , बाहर से जितना कठोर भीतर से उतना ही कोमल होता हैं जाट |
जाट पहले खेती पर निर्भर थे | अब भी 75-80 % जाट खेती ही करते हैं | जाट केवल हल या तलवार चलाना जनता था , पर अब हमारी नई पिड्डी शहरों की तरफ निकल रही हैं | शहरों में जाटों की यह तीसरी या चौथी पिड्डी हैं , इस से पहले सबके पूर्वज गाँव में रहते थे और खेती ही करते थे | यह सब रहबर-ऐ-आज़म चौ. छोटूराम जी व दानवीर सेठ चौ.छाजुराम जी लाम्बा के प्रयासों की बदौलत हैं | इन दोनों ने अपनी कौम के दुःख तकलीफ को बड़ी गहराई से नजदीकी से देखा व सहा हैं | इन दोनों ने जाट शिक्षण संस्थाओ का निर्माण करवाया ताकि जाट पढ़ लिख कर शहरों में नौकरियों में ऊँचे पदों पर जा सके |जिसका नतीजा हैं आज शहरों में 20-25 % जाट अच्छी नौकरियों में हैं या अपना व्यापार कर रहे हैं | परन्तु शहर में आने के बाद ज्यादातर जाट अपने तक ही सिमित हैं , वो अपने गाँव में रहने वाले भाइयों को कोसते हैं के गाँव में रहने वाले कुछ सीखना नहीं चाहते | अगर हम ऐसे नुक्स निकल कर अपने भाइयों को कोसते रहेंगे तो हम अपनी कौम के लिए कुछ नहीं कर सकते | अगर यही बात सोच कर चौ.छोटूराम जी अपनी कौम के लिए संघर्ष करना छोड़ देते तो क्या हम यहाँ तक पहुच पाते | उस वक़्त के जाट तो अब वालों से कही ज्यादा अनाड़ी व बोलने में अक्खड़ थे | दूसरी एक कहावत हैं के ' जाटडा काटडा अपने न मारया करे स " | हमारी उठ बैठ रिश्तेदारियां जाटों में हैं तो हम व्यापार में साझेदार अपने किसे रिश्तेदार या आरे प्यारे को बनाते हैं | जब कभी वो दोखा देता हैं या आँख दिखता हैं तो हमे बुरा लगता हैं | दूसरा दोखा दे तो इतना नहीं लगता जितना अपना देता हैं यह सव्भाविक हैं अपनों का गम ज्यादा होता हैं | दूसरी जाति का जाट के साथ कभी व्यापार नहीं करेगा क्योंकि वो लोग जाटों से शारीरिक मानसिक रूप में दबते हैं | जाट को आँख नहीं दिखा सकते | और एक जाट दुसरे जाट का बराबरिया हो स मन में आते ही श्यामी हो ले स | परन्तु जाट मन का साफ़ हो स | आपने पहले गाँव में देख्या होगा के ब्याह में रुस्सा मनाई बहुत होया करती थी ईब भी हो स पर रुसन का नजरियाँ बदल गया | पहले ब्याह में नीचे बैठ के जीम्या करते थे , गड़ी (घी डालने के लिए ) ठाठिया ( लड्डू पूरी डालने के लिए ) मुख्य बर्तन होया करते थे जिमाने के लिए | ( पहले खुद काम किया करते थे , कढाई चड़ने से पहले पूरी गली व परिवार को इकठा करके जिमेदारिया बांटी जाती थी ,आजकल वेटर सिस्टम चल पड्या ,खडा खाना हो गया ) जिसको गड़ी व ठाठिये की चौधर मिल जाती थी वो अपने आप को बड़ा चौधरी मानता था | जिसको यह चौधर नहीं मिलती थी तो उसका पूरा परिवार रूस जाया करता था | परन्तु जब कभी कुन्भे का किसे दुसरे के साथ लठ भाज ज्या स तो सब से पहले वो रूठ्ननिया ऐ लठ ठावेगा अक माहरे भैया साथ रोला , इस्सी बावली कौम स लड्डू कोणी खा लठ खा लेंगे | यह जाट का सवभाव हैं |
सन् 1945 में चौ.छोटूराम जी के देहांत के बाद सुदा पिलान लोट गई मतलब जिस कौम को खरी खोटी सुना कर जागते रहते थे उनके जाते ही एक दम से उनकी शिक्षाओ को भूल गए | चौ.साहब ने उमर लगा दी इस कौम को जगाने में और इनने कुछ ही दिन लगाये वापिस सोवण म | आज जाट शहर में जाने के बाद अपनों को भूल जाता हैं | गाँव में आना जाना बंद कर देते हैं के गाँव में जाने से उनके बालक बिगड़ जायेंगे | पडया लिख्या के साथ साथ कड्या लिख्या भी होना जरुरी स | पढाई वा करो जो अपने गाँव , गुहांड, कौम के लोगो के काम आ सके , हम दो हमारे दो के लिए पढाई करी तो क्या करी | अगर चौ.साहब पढाई के बाद अपने परिवार की सोचते तो क्या आज हमारी कौम इस लायक बनती ? हमारी सबसे बड़ी मुरखता यही हैं की हम उस महान आदमी की शिक्षाओ को भूल रहे हैं | कुछ लोग कहते हैं की वो वक़्त ओर था , वक़्त अब भी वैसा ही हैं बस नजरिया बदला हैं |
चौ.साहब की वो शिक्षाये जो हम भूल रहे हैं :-

(1). "हमे धार्मिक तौर पर कभी भी कट्टर व रुडीवादी नहीं होना चाहिए "|
जाटों को आज हिन्दू मुस्लिम सिख आदि कई हिस्सों में बाँट रखा हैं | चौ.साहब ने सब जाटों को इकठा किया | पंजाब के जाटों को सिख पंथ ले रहा , पश्चिमी पंजाब के जाटों को मुस्लिम धर्म ले रहा और हरयाणा के जाटों को आर्य समाज | हरियाणा में चौ.साहब ने सबसे पहले आर्यों को दो हिस्सों में बांटा एक जाट आर्ये और दूसरा गैर जाट आर्ये क्योकि आर्य समाज में वैदिक धर्म होता हैं कोई जाति पाती नहीं सब क्षत्रिये होते हैं | जब जाति ही नहीं होगी तो जाट कहा होगा |
1947 में जाटों ने आपस में अपनों का खून बहाया और बदले सांपो को यहाँ जगह दे दी | फिर 1984 में जाट जाट से लड़ा | सिख धर्म में 64% जाट हैं और खत्री सिर्फ 0.9% हैं | लड़ता सिख जाट हैं नाम पूरी सिख कोम होता हैं | आज दिल्ली की गद्दी पर खत्री सिख बैठा रखा हैं ( जो सिर्फ 0.9% हैं ) जो आज तक कभी जनता में नहीं गया | पंजाब के जाटों को यह कहकर गुमराह कर रखा हैं के सिख को प्रधानमंत्री बना रखा हैं अगर सिख को ही प्रधानमंत्री बनाना हैं तो किसे सिख जाट को क्यों नहीं ( जो 64% हैं )| यह सिर्फ इसलिए हैं की आज जाट धर्म के पार्टी कट्टर होता जा रहा हैं और अपने पराये की पिछान भूल रहा हैं | संत जरनैल सिंह भिन्द्रेवाला (बरार गोत्री जाट ) व मेजर जनरल सुभेग सिंह भंगु ने लाला जगत नारायण और इंदिरा गाँधी की नीतियों से दुखी होकर सिखों को भड़काना शुरू कर दिया था | जिसकी बदौलत ऑपरेशन ब्लू स्टार करना पड़ा था | इस ऑपरेशन के लिए मेजर जनरल कुलदीप सिंह बरार को नियुक्त किया गया | मतलब के दोनों तरफ जाट मरनेवाला भी और मारनेवाला भी | अगर किसे सिख को ही भेजना था तो 1971 की लडाई का सेनापति अरोरा साहब या उसकी बिरादरी के किसी सिख को क्यों नहीं भेजा ? क्योकि इंदिरा रानी जानती थी के एक बिगडे हुए जाट को एक जाट ही काबू कर सकता हैं | ऐसे कई उदाहरण हैं जिसमे जाट ने जाट को धर्म के नाम पर मारा , जाट का धर्म के नाम पर इस्तेमाल किया | जाट जब तक ऐसे धर्म के नाम पर लड़ते रहेंगे तब तक इनका कुछ नही हो सकता |

(2). " जाटों तुम संतोषी मत रहो , मैं तुम्हे कर्म से झुन्झता हुए देखना चाहता हु ताकि तुम अपने हक के लिए लड़ सको "|
आज हम दिल्ली की सरकार में एक जाट को मंत्री बनाने के लिए तरस रहे हैं , जबकि दिल्ली के चारों के तरफ जाट बसते हैं | हम सिर्फ हरयाणा पंजाब में जाट मुख्यमंत्री बनाने मात्र से संतोष कर लेते हैं डरते हैं की कही लोग यह न कह दे जातिवाद की बात करते हैं | लोकसभा में 62 सीट ऐसी हैं जो जाट बाहुल्ये हैं और करीब 28 सीटो पर जाट वोट निर्णायक वोट हैं | इतनी सीट होने पर भी हम दिल्ली की गद्दी से दूर हैं | पहले मै सोचता था के देश का प्रधानमंत्री ब्राह्मण इसलिए बनता हैं के इनकी आबादी ज्यादा हैं जबकि ब्राह्मण देश में सिर्फ 3% हैं और जहाँ जाट 4% (हिन्दू, सिख बिश्नोई मुल्ला जाट मिलाकर ) हैं | जाटों को मिलकर दिल्ली की कुर्सी के लिए जद्दो जहद करनी चाहिए , इन ब्राह्मणों को हमसे मंत्रालय की मांग करनी चाहिए , जबकि हो रहा हैं इसका उल्टा | यही हाल राजस्थान का हैं वहां भी जाटों (हिन्दू , बिश्नोई , सिख जाटों की आबादी मिलकर ) की आबादी राजपूत व ओरों से ज्यादा हैं , आजतक जाट वहां अपना मुख्यमंत्री नहीं बना सकते | इस लोकसभा में भी 23 में से 9 जाट सांसद जीत कर आये हैं |
समर भाई आपने आरक्षण के विषये में कहा हैं की हमे अपने से ऊपर वाले की रिष करनी चाहिये | आपको शायद पता होगा की देश के आजाद होने के बाद जब यह आरक्षण समिति बनाई थी तो उसमे कौल ब्राह्मण ने अपनी कौम ब्राह्मणों को भी आरक्षण कोटे में डलवाया था , यह शुक्र हैं उन ब्राह्मणों का जिन्होंने इसका विरोध किया और ब्राह्मणों को इस आरक्षण से बाहर निकलवाया नहीं तो आज सोच लो क्या हाल होता | उस कौल ब्राह्मण ने अपने खुद के राज्ये को देश से अलग रखा धारा ३७० लगवा दी जिससे कोई बाहर का वह जा कर उनका हक न छीन सके | हम भोले जाट इन लोगो की यह सियासत समझ नहीं सके | हम बात ग्लोबलाइजेशन की बात करते रह जाते हैं और यह लोग माल चाट कर जाते हैं | जाटों ने भी उस वक़्त आरक्षण का विरोध किया था | क्योकि दिमाग में बैठा दी थी के छोटे हो जाओगे , ब्राह्मणों एक तरफ तो जाट को शुद्र कहते हैं दूसरी तरफ जब आरक्षण की बात आती हैं तो जाटों को क्षत्रिये मानते हैं |

(3). "दुश्मन को पहचानना और बोलना सीख लो "|
हमारे कुछ लोग पढ़ लिख जरुर गए हैं पर उनको अभी भी दुश्मन की पहचान करनी नही आई हैं | दुश्मन अपने लोग नही हैं इनको कोसना छोडो | हमारे असली दुश्मन तो धर्म के ठेकेदार हैं जो हमारा इस्तेमाल करते हैं और बाद में हमको ही बदनाम करते हैं के जाट जाटगर्दी करते हैं जातिवाद करते हैं | हरयाणा में जाट मुख्यमंत्री बनता है तो यह लोग दुषप्रचार करते हैं के अब सारे जाट नौकरी लगेंगे | जबकि हकीक़त कुछ और हैं :-
जाति जनसँख्या ( % में ) राजपत्रित अधिकारी
जाट 32 17.82
ब्राह्मण 7 11.76
पंजाबी अरोरा\खत्री 11 26.71
बिश्नोई 0.7 0.88
अगरवाल व्यापारी 5 12.54
मेव 2 0


अगर जाट ऐसे ही सोते रहे तो आगे इससे भी बुरा हाल होगा |
चौ.छोटूराम जी के बारे स्कूल कॉलेज में एक छोटी सी जीवनी पढा कर संतोष कर लिया जाता हैं , यदि कौम को उठाना हैं तो चौ.साहब की सोच को समझना होगा | .........................contd...

ARVINDJANGU
May 25th, 2009, 02:40 PM
पूर्व प्रधानमंत्री चौ.चरण सिंह जी तेवतिया ने कहा था के " देश के विकास का रास्ता ,देश के गाँव की गलियों से होकर गुजरता हैं " | इसका मतलब यह नही के गाँव की गलियां सीमेंट की बनाने से गाँव का विकास हो जायेगा | गाँव का असल विकास उनको बेहतर शिक्षा , बेहतर हस्पताल , सवच्छ पानी खेती के लिए नई तकनिकी के यंत्र , फैसल के अच्छे दाम, यातायात की सुविधा आदि आदि | हमारे सभी नेतागण राजपत्रित अधिकारी इन्ही गाँव से सम्बन्ध रखते हैं पर पता नही बाद में यह लोग इन बातो को कैसे भूल जाते हैं | सभी पैसे के पीछे अपनी जिमेदारियों को भूल जाते हैं | किसे नेता या अधिकारी की औलाद इन सरकारी स्कूल में नही पढ़ती , जहाँ अब भी नीचे ज़मीन पर बैठ के पढना पड़ता हैं | बीमार होने पर अपोलो जैसे हस्पतालों में इलाज करवाते हैं न के गाँव की सरकारी डिस्पेंसरी में जहाँ डॉक्टर के नाम पर एक फार्मासिस्ट मिलता हैं | हम सब के माँ बाप भाई बहिन इन महकमों में नौकरी करते हैं , पर इन बातों पर कितना अमल करते हैं | जिस दिन अपने काम के प्रति ईमानदार हो जायेंगे , अपने लोगो को कोसना छोड़ देंगे उस दिन अपनी कौम खुद बुलंद हो जायेगी |

ARVINDJANGU
June 2nd, 2009, 08:39 PM
जाति ----------------------------------जनसँख्या ( % में ) ---------------------------राजपत्रित अधिकारी
जाट -----------------------32% ---------------------------17.82%
ब्राह्मण ----------------------7% ----------------------------11.76%
पंजाबी अरोरा\खत्री -------------11% -------------------------- 26.71%
बिश्नोई ---------------------0.7% ---------------------------0.88%
अगरवाल व्यापारी ------------- 5 % ---------------------------12.54 %
मेव ------------------------2% ----------------------------- 0 %

poonamchaudhary
June 9th, 2009, 07:40 PM
Vision for jats - a very thought provoking topic is this ! Any movement that starts has at its base a vision without which it is meaningless. Vision is the soul of any movement and the movement that lacks vision falls flat on the ground sooner or later. Any movement that is started is started with a goal towards the attainment of which it strives. What is the goal for us jats? what is the vision that we have for our future? It needs to be clear and manifest in the begining before sounding the bugle of movement. So isnt it necessary for us to discuss the vision that we individuals have when we think of our future as a community?


When I think of a jat movement then the image of our villages comes to my mind and I feel that it's the upliftment of those brethrens that is required. As other members have also been saying in their posts, it is the work at the grass root level that needs attention. Above all it is the problems that lie there which need amendments. Still there is a large chunk of people who live and die in those rural depths where the light of education and awareness has still not reached. For me, as I have written before as well, it is the education of the community that should be the vision and the goal. And all other problems that are there will gradually disappear on their own. Educated and better informed people can solve the problems successfully. Let us first focus on education. The light of education must reach there and it is to be ensured by us who are informed people of our community.

pscil
July 22nd, 2009, 09:58 PM
There are two kinds of times namely Psychological time and chronological time or clock time. Most disease of the human body including the breakdown of the immune system and rapid ageing are caused because we live in the psychological time. This time is the burden of our past pains and sorrows and the fear and anxiety of the future. It is also called the sufferings of a conditioned mind. This conditioned mind prevents us from living in the now and fully focused on our work because it lives in the past or the future. clock time is time which helps us to learn from our past and plan our future this is helpful for us.

Psychological time leads to increase the density of the cells in the human body and makes the senses gross; remember each cell in the human body is sending 3 trillion messages per second. The increase in density leads to unconsciousness, just like the unconsciousness of a stone where the atomic vibration is low compared to most living human beings where the vibration is high and therefore the energy level is also high. Lot of people are also at the same level of vibration as stones due to their conditioned minds, which cannot think beyond space and time. Your body is made up of 100% space, look at an atom most of it is space; therefore the infinity of space is within you. The now which is the eternal moment is also within you as it is the only thing you can control through your actions. Therefore both infinity and eternity are within you. Jesus says “ the kingdom of god is within you”

This unconsciousness is what has led to human beings killing 100 million people in the 20Th century. This unconsciousness like that of a stone comes because people are established only in the mind and not in consciousness. Remember you are not the mind but only the being which is consciousness.

The mind is judgmental and breaks down the world into duality. It is like what Descartes says about the mind “ I think therefore I am” reducing the human being to only the mind is very limited way of looking at the world.

We have to become the unmind by going beyond the mind which is limited in time and space. This conditioning of the mind is what we need to remove to create a new order of humanity that will be luminous, spiritual and conscious unlike the mechanized robots of human beings which kill for religion and all the rubbish that goes with it. No wonder India is and will always be the spiritual capital of the world.

The Gita says “do your karma; which can be done only in the present but do not get attached to the rewards because reward is always in the future. Action takes place only in the now whether it is the now of the past, present or future.

cooljat
July 26th, 2009, 04:02 PM
Bhaisaab,

You explained and summed it up really well. If we try to implement the points you've described here then for sure we'll become invincible.

I, myself has noted Jats being self reliant always excel in every sphere of their own. Without any help they just rely on sheer hard work, iron will and determination but when it comes to progress as whole community they fail miserably. Reason being their Lion instinct, they walk alone and just can't tolerate any sort of leadership, in general. But time is changing rapidly. We should start to learn the importance of UNITY. They day we unite, we'll triumph everywhere.

Other very important point is EDUCATION, indeed it is arguably most important requirement for our community. Educating doesn't mean merely making them academic literate but to GET RID OF their orthodox thinking and other rusty customs like not sending girls to school, not allow ladies to work, fake choudharypana, and most imp curse female foeticide.

I believe these very points are not difficult to implement, we just need to make our stiff mentality little flexible. And being positive I feel the day is not that far. :)

Thanks!

Jit



Dear Friends,
my observation and understanding-
Jats are more bound to their genes and genetic behavioral compulsions than others. (impulsive, irritability, undiplomatic, hard work, tough conditions bring out the best in them)
The reason for above can be traced their profession over the generations in history has been farming and war.
The scenario is changing today. The vast energy that has got programmed into their genes due to sweat and toil of centuries, now needs to be channelised in a more academic/intellectual/sophisticated manner.
Through generations Jat has stood as a single strong entity. He had his own land, his own food that he produced, self reliant. But now he needs to understand the advantage of the greater common good rather than individual benefits.
The points Jats need to learn:-
1. Unity - its advantage. In unity every one's views cant be implemented but everyone should pool in the energy for common good.
2. A decision taken as impulse or in an excited state of anger/irritation can never be correct. Only a calm mind can take correct decisions. Anger and hate is a waste of precious energy and time.
3. Communicaton - right words, decent language, efficient communication.
4. Presentation - you should be able to present yourself well. other person will gauge you by what you present and not by what you are.
5. Mutual appreciation and encouragement does wonders. Leg pulling might seem fun and impulse may guide you to leg pulling, it can never get positive results. Criticism can never encourage, appreciation always encourages.
6. Make yourself worthy of appreciation.
7. React in perspective and need based, dont over react. Respond less, work more.
8. pulling other person down is an urge but a better option is to work hard and try to do better.
9. jats shouldnt feel proud and possessive about rude way of talking. learning to be a gentleman is education.

Thanks
navin gulia

Anjalis
September 9th, 2009, 10:47 AM
अगर हम एक हो जायेंगे तो ९० % समस्याओं का समाधान तो अपने आप ही हो जायेगा.
ऐसा नहीं है की हम में बदलाव नहीं आ रहा है , हमारी सोच में काफी बदलाव तो आने लगा है .
इस सब में औरतें काफी महतवपूर्ण भूमिका निभा सकती हैं , बशर्ते उन्हें भी मौका दिया जाये .

pscil
October 1st, 2009, 02:53 AM
The progress or evolution of human civilization is from the subconscious to conscious to the super conscious state. The brilliance of the western mind reaches the conscious state and from there goes into regression or a prerational stage like Wordsworth describing the child as the father of man or the nobel savage of Rousseau.

It also goes oscillates between the scientific materialism of Karl Marx where matter dominates the mind to Saussure and Wittgenstein in which the world view becomes textual and contextual or simply put the mind dominates the material objective reality to the extent that objective reality is denied. This is what Michel Foucault calls the terrorism of post modernism.

There is no peaceful coexistence of subject and object or mind and matter. The main reason for this is that the western mind does not have a practice like yoga in which the purush (man) and prakarati (nature) can be in harmony, one in which opposites can be reconciled in unity. A practice in which the conscious can lead to the superconscious or a practice in which the differentiation can be integrated. This is the brilliance of the Indian mind, which we do not find in the reductive deductive and dissociative philosophy of the west.

Khatkar
October 4th, 2009, 01:49 PM
RACE TO GLOBALIZATION :In the continuation to JAT AWAKENING I'll say that while persisting with our agriculture profession & " RACE TO GLOBALIZATION " , we could steer the way by making AGRICULTURE profession as globalized.

Monday The Crest edition of Times of India let something to be known about Indian farmers who have been doing agriculture on lakhs of hectares of land outside the india though they are not JAT.I really embarrassed or humiliated after reading that article , for which we are known ( Obviously as an agriculturist) , we are not in the same race of agriculture globalization.Why???.Now for what we count???

People from India ( Not a Jat ) , who have no inherent farmers attributes , are doing agriculture in the countries like Eutohpia ,South african Countries etc.. I think this is my answer to question raised for shrinking agriculture land areas.

EDUCATION : as pointed out by Jangu bhai , that those JATS are leaving in cities , they have no will to help the child of their relatives those are living in the same villages ( Whatsoever be the reason ).Dreams buried in the same villages due lack of resources. Efforts made by Ch. Chotu Ram are stillstanding , where he leftout.

Once Dr. A.P.J. Abdul kalam azad told in his speech that in Israel & Philis teen , there are almost everyday war b/w these two countries , but next morning in the news paper what I saw that there was no negative news of any bloody war.

I request to every JL that put yours ideas into action in the real world for the uplift of JAT community.

One strength I noticed on Jatland.com ( Joined a month ago ,come to know about from my colleague who is JAT , but not yet joined th jatland.com) that our community or Jatlanders are intellectual, rational , visionary & leaders.Than what & why to wait??

singhvp
March 2nd, 2010, 09:30 PM
"
poonamchaudhary;212880]Vision for jats - a very thought provoking topic is this ! Any movement that starts has at its base a vision without which it is meaningless. [QUOTE]The light of education must reach there and it is to be ensured by us who are informed people of our community."

Topic seems to be very romantic and thought provoking raised and discussed by well meaning people. But the question is who will be the torch bearer of this movement. While sitting in our cozy drawing rooms in India or abroad, accomplishment of any movement aimed at upliftment of the hapless brothers in rural areas is not feasible. Lack of quality education as highlighted by some of the members is not a Jat specific problem, it is a general problem prevailing in the rural areas which can be addressed by by the State only. So the crucial question is who runs or administers the State. A common man irrespective of his/her caste does not have a direct stake in transacting the State Business. The onus lies on the MLAs/MPs representing you in the Legislative Assemblies/Parliament. Unfortunately, most of them are opportunists and ditch the gullible voters and conveniently forget their promises made before election. They have taken you for granted as they are from your community and the only "Khandani Jats" who are ordained to rule for generations to come. Therefore, the myth need to be busted that only a few Jat families who have been at the helm of political affairs in Jat heartland ( Haryana, UP, Rajasthan) are the only alternatives. At the first opportunity, these leaders need to be replaced with suitable and capable candidates from humble background who are familiar with the basic problems of villagers and have a tenacity of purpose and a strong character. (You all know the clans running the roost in the above-said three states, I do not want to name the same to avoid any unnecessary controversy). So please do not get carried away by the reputation the forefathers of these dishonest contemporary Jat leaders were enjoying. (Inki sat peedhiyon ka theka nahin le rakha hamne). Please wake up and make others awake to root out the corrupt politicians proclaiming to be the saviours and "Thekedars" of Jat community. Meanwhile we may continue our individual efforts also to help our extended family members, relatives and fellow community members in getting quality education for their wards as this is only key to success. The lofty ideals of socialism, naxalism or any other radical mass movement will meet only brutal State force and will prove to be cannon fodder as observed by one distinguished member(Kapil Dalal). Incidentally, I may mention that there is a total disconnect between so called "Padhe Likhe" and affluent Jats and the poor farmers living in villages. Unfortunately, majority of Jats who have been able to carve a niche for themselves in certain fields viz. business, education, civil services, or Defence forces, tend to be snobbish, and dissociate themselves from the have nots of the community and prefer not to socialise with them.

HPMalikDaboda
April 26th, 2010, 03:27 PM
I have gone through the views expressed by many eminent persons in this discussion. Though our past has been glorious yet the challenge before us our present and future. Our future will be determined by the acts performed by us in the present. I think that the two most important issues on which we should focus are first education to all boys and girls of our caste. The education should be focused to be achieved in the best possible way available by utilizing the optimum use of our available resources. The education may be in a Govt. school, or in a private public school, or in a convent because any one form of schooling is not possible everywhere. We should try to give technical/expert education to our youth so that they achieve the level of excellence in a field. In short, the focus should be to make optimum use of available facilities in the form of school, college, university etc. The awareness of availability of opportunity is also of prime importance in this regard. The second focus should be on employment of our working force. No job is inferior. However, one should strive to climb the ladder by using his intelligence and knowledge. We find lot of youth wasting their time and energy in such a way that they do not make any contribution for themselves, their family or the society. If our work force is engaged on jobs which are beneficial not only for them or their families but also for our society then we will find in a short span of time that the status of our society will substantially improve.

ssindhu
June 17th, 2010, 07:15 PM
This is one of the best post I have read on site which explains philosophicaly many things related to the ways of living.Every youngster who visits this section should go through this post for personal and professional gain.

Like Sanjeev Said, Jatlanders and this site can do wonders , I do have always believed in this thing.But once again I would like to raise one point 'reason' or 'need' to be united. Like I mentioned in first post, different religious sect have their own roof to stand together in any crisis. Jats as such do not have any roof where we can call people. So this makes this task more challenging.This site gives a strong database of educated and experienced.
jats.But again question arises why should Jat be together? Like at the time of Kargil the whole country was united and wanted to contribute in any possible manner to the country.There are already many issues which are needed to be addressesd seriously.One of them is Female Foeticide in Haryana and Among Jat population.Many news channels have proudly shown documentaries over this critical male to female ratio in jats and buying of brides from southern and eastern states..This tag really seems to push us in medevivial times.

Can any one from us come forward to really diagnose the actual reason for such a down trodden mentality prevailing among ethnic brave people?

I also welcome female members to discuss this issue in detail.

agree that thsi site has brought us together. but problem is the platform remains a virtuality and we don't come together in reality. many of us here are so called frends. but how many times we have come together to help each other, even in individual capacity. do we support each other morally or in any other mean when needed?

as far as reason to come together is concerned, i must repeat and modify anil's point a little. let's start with micro causes macros issues will get solved automatically. the realtionship is as simple as relation between micro and macro economy.

as far as female foeticide is concerned, i don't see education and exposure therein making much difference to typical jat mindset of many males here. many are eduacted but not evolved. many play to the gallery taht they treat women with equality, but the wise here know it's all sham. males can answer it better than females.

ssindhu
June 17th, 2010, 10:44 PM
This is one of the best post I have read on site which explains philosophicaly many things related to the ways of living.Every youngster who visits this section should go through this post for personal and professional gain.

Like Sanjeev Said, Jatlanders and this site can do wonders , I do have always believed in this thing.But once again I would like to raise one point 'reason' or 'need' to be united. Like I mentioned in first post, different religious sect have their own roof to stand together in any crisis. Jats as such do not have any roof where we can call people. So this makes this task more challenging.and wanted to contribute in any possible manner to the country.There are already many issues which are needed to be addrThis site gives a strong database of educated and experienced.
jats.But again question arises why should Jat be together? Like at the time of Kargil the whole country was united essesd seriously.One of them is Female Foeticide in Haryana and Among Jat population.Many news channels have proudly shown documentaries over this critical male to female ratio in jats and buying of brides from southern and eastern states..This tag really seems to push us in medevivial times.

Can any one from us come forward to really diagnose the actual reason for such a down trodden mentality prevailing among ethnic brave people?

I also welcome female members to discuss this issue in detail.

first we need to fix the too much regulation on this site. anyways

yes thsi site has given us a great platform. but the problem is the unity remains only virtual and doesn't seem to become a reality. it can be best understood through asking ourselves that many of us here are so called friends but how many times we have stood by each other in needy hours? that's what i meant by virtual associationa nad real association. if we don't help us each other for small causes in individual capacity, you think we can unite for big cause?
here i will modify anil's point a bit that let's start at micro and issue at macro level will automatically resolve.it's like the relationship between micro and macro economy.

as far as reason to unite is concerned, we have many. we are a less evolved community, lets' admit that. we keep discussing many reasons from social to moral to economical in various threads. but what is imporatnt is how to go about that? taking anil's athought a little beyond think of micro to macro.

as far as female foeticide is concerned, we women are tired of speaking our plight. it would be interesting to read men's view on this, though many here play to the gallery.

kapdal
June 18th, 2010, 03:47 PM
as far as female foeticide is concerned, we women are tired of speaking our plight. it would be interesting to read men's view on this, though many here play to the gallery.



as far as female foeticide is concerned, i don't see education and exposure therein making much difference to typical jat mindset of many males here. many are eduacted but not evolved. many play to the gallery taht they treat women with equality, but the wise here know it's all sham. males can answer it better than females.

I don't see any logic in these statements. You are suggesting that males solely are responsible for female foeticide. Usually, the maximum desire for a male child is present in the females of the family. They go to any extent from prescribing rituals to Baba's magic potions to obtain a male child. So do you realistically feel that the families that do practise foeticide have silent women victims who are oppressed into submission by the male patriarchs? Let's get real please- we are not making an arty-farty movie here. I think the mother would in all likelihood be unhappy on foeticide (though even this need not be gospel truth, lots of women abort unwanted foetuses). But the other women in the family are equally responsible for the crime, if not more. So representing the issue via a feminist angle and attributing it to the usual male Jat attitude is going to be counterproductive. The issue affects the whole society, neither men nor women can pass the buck to each other.

spdeshwal
July 3rd, 2010, 04:26 PM
हमारे सपनो के आधुनिक जाट समाज की प्राप्ति के लिए एक जनांदोलन और उसकी परिकल्पना से सराबोर सम्पादकीय में जो प्रशन समर भाई के मन में उठे होंगे, वैसे ही विचार , वैसे ही प्रशन
आप सभी के मन में भी, कभी न कभी जाट समाज की उन्नति को लेकर उठे होंगे!
या यूँ कहिये , एक 'आदर्श जाट समाज' का निर्माण कैसे हो, इस प्रशन ने आपके अन्तःकरण को कभी न कभी किसी ने किसी रूप में अवश्य झझकोर होगा!
कैसे एक अनुशाषित , मर्यादित, प्रगतिशील, आधुनिक व् समृद्धशाली जाट समाज का निर्माण हो !
साधारणतया, जाट समाज के लोगों की पहचान साफगोई, निडरता व् मेहनतकश वर्ग के रूप में होती है !
फिर क्यों हमारा समाज उन्नति के उस शिखर को नहीं छू सका, जिसकी हमारे लोगों को दरकार भी है और क्षमता भी!

मेरे विचार से, सबसे बड़ी खामी हमारे वयवहार में 'अनुशाशन' का आभाव है ! हमारे लोग अनुशाशित कतई भी नहीं हैं!
मुझे कभी २ ऐसा लगता है की अनुशाशन हमारी (जाट) सभ्यता में ही नहीं है !
अब प्रशन ये उठता है की अनुशाशन का सभ्यता से क्या लेना देना ?
थोड़े चिंतन के बाद उत्तर मुझे कुछ संकेत स्वयं ही मिल गया ! यह तथ्य हमारे स्वाभाव में ही निहित है की हम दुसरे के विचारों से सहमत भी नहीं होते और दुसरे के विचारों की सरहाना भी नहीं करते !
इस बात का खुलासा में अपने बेटे सिद्धार्थ और मेरे वयवहार की तुलना से ही कर सकता हूँ ! वह कहीं ज्यादा शहनशील व् दूसरों की भावनाओं का ख्याल रखनेवाला है ! उधाहरण के तौर पर, गाडी चलाते वक्त , सामने वाले को रास्ता देना व् लेन बदलने वाले को सम्मान देना ! में अक्सर जल्दबाजी दिखाता हूँ , थोड़ी आकर्मकता भी दिखता हूँ !कभी २ क्रोधवश नियम का उल्लंघन भी करता हूँ ! इस सब के बावजूद अपने पक्ष को ही सही मान उस पर अड्डा रहना जैसे मुझे विरासत में मिला हो ! मेरे विचार से मेरे बेटे के वयवहार व् स्वाभाव में ये परिवर्तन यूरोपियन मूल के लोगों के प्रभाव में आने से हुआ है ! मेरा दृढ विस्वाश है की हमारा ये अखड़ व् उद्ग्विन स्वाभाव वांशिक है, जन्मजात है ! हम ठोस निर्णय लेने में जल्दबाजी तो दिखाते हैं , भावनाओं के बहाव बहकते हैं ! चालाक लोग, खासकर राजनीतिज्ञ इसका फायदा उठाते हैं !

आधुनिक परिपेक्ष्य में, हमारे लोगों को मेहनत के साथ २ अनुशाषित होने की बहुत जरूरत है !
छोटी २ बातों पर रोड जाम कर अपने गैर जिमेदाराना वयवहार अनुशाशान्हीनता का परिचायक है !
रोड जाम कर अपनी बात मनवाने का तरीका सबसे ज्यादा जाट बेल्ट में ही अपनाया जाता है !

क्रमश:

spdeshwal
July 9th, 2010, 06:02 AM
मेरे उपरोक्त कथन के संधर्भ में, हम यही तर्क देते हैं की सरकार और प्रशाशन को चेताने का और कोई तरीका ही नहीं होता लोगों के पास !
लेकिन ऐसा करते समय हम केवल भावनात्मक विचार करते हैं, न कि मानसिक विचार ! क्योंकि इस तरह के निर्णय , आमतोर पर प्रभावित पार्टी की बजाय, दुसरे लोग लेते हैं !
वो दुसरे लोग आमतोर पर किसी ने किसी राजनितीक पार्टी के कार्यकर्त्ता होते हैं ! मेरा ये कथन की हम भावनात्मक विचार , खासकर हम जाटों पर लागू होता है ! दरअसल , ज्यादातर हम विचार करते ही नहीं , बस बहाव में बह जाते हैं ! पिछले दिनों हमने देखा, कैसे हमारे लोग टिकैत जी के समर्थन में लामबंध हो गए थे ! सवाल यह नहीं है कि मायावती ने ओवर रिएक्ट किया , या प्रशाशन ने चापलूसी की इंतहा दिखाई, बल्कि हमारे जाट नेता का वयवहार गैजिमेदाराना था ! उनके स्तर के व्यक्ति को बहुत सोच समझ कर बयाँ देना चाहिए ! किसी सार्वजानिक सभा में इस तरह का बयां न केवल एक ओछी हरकत थी बल्कि बहुत बड़ी अनुशाशनहीनता ! समाज कि कितनी उर्जा का ह्रास हुआ इसका अंदाजा भी नहीं लगाया जा सकता !अगर हमारे नेता इस तरह कि गैजिमेदारी का परिचय देंगे तब , कार्यकर्ताओं और आम जनता तक क्या सन्देश जायेगा ! कैसे आदर्श स्थापित कर रहे हैं हम, हमारी नई पीढी के लिए ! एसे कितने ही उदाहरण मिल जायेंगे, हमने जहाँ तनिक भी मानसिक विचार नहीं किया गया कि हमारे छुटभैया नेताओं से प्रेरित इस तरह के बंद और जाम, अपने ही लोगों के लिए कितने कष्टकारक हो जाते हैं ! कितनी उर्जा का नाश हुआ, वह अलग ! कारण बहुत बड़े नहीं होते ! गावं का झोटा गुम हो गया, पुलिस ढूंढ़ नहीं सकी, हाइवे जाम !!
कुछ दिन पहले सगोत्र विहाह के मामले में भी हमारे लोगों ने सामूहिक तोर पर भावनात्मक विचार से वशीभूत , घोर अनुशाशनहीनता ही नहीं दिखाई बल्कि एक जघन्य अपराध कर डाला ! सामूहिक तोर पर इस तरह का आचरण केवल निंदनीय ही नहीं बल्कि गोत्र भाईचारे कि मूल भावना के भी प्रतिकूल है ,सतप्रतिशत नकारात्मक है! इस सारे घटनाक्रम में जहाँ लड़के और लड़की ने विचार और कर्म कि अनुशाशान्हीनता दिखाई लेकिन समाज ने एक कदम आगे बढते हुए वचन कि अनुशाशान्हीनता दिखा, इसे हवा दी और वह कुकृत्य कर सामूहिक कर्म कि अनुशाशान्हीनता दीखाई ! वह हमारे समाज कि बहुत बड़ी कमजोरी भी है कि यह घटनाक्रम किस अंजाम तक पहुंचा ! एक प्रगतिशील समाज के लिए वह घटना शर्मनाक ही नहीं निंदनीय भी थी ! इसका कोई और हल निकल आता ! कोई और हल निकालना हमारे प्रबुद्ध समाज कि नैतिक जिमेदारी थी , जिसे हमारा समाज निभा नहीं सका ! सबसे बड़ी पीड़ादायक सचाई यही है कि हमारी खाप वयवस्था के रहनुमाओं ने सार्वजनिक तौर पर इसकी भत्सर्ना नहीं कि , जिस कारण इस भावना को बल मिलता है कि हमारी खाप , पारवारिक प्रतिष्ठा के लिए कि गई इन जघन्य हत्याओं को प्रेरित करते हैं ! दरअसल खुछ खाप नेताओं ने इसकी खुल्ली वकालत कर पूरी खाप प्रणाली को कटघरे में खड़ा कर दिया है !
कुछ भाई बहनों ने अपने लेखन में आधुनिक, सकारत्मक और कारगर शिक्षा को समाज के नव निर्माण हेतु जनांदोलन कि सबसे बड़ी जरुरत बताया ! इसमें कोई अतिश्योक्ति नहीं कि नियमित व् प्रचलित आधुनिक शिक्षा जो हमें हमारे विद्यालयों और विश्वविद्यालयों में मिलती है, उसका निजी व् सार्जनिक जीवन में उन्नति करने के लिए बड़ा महत्व है ! लेकिन उस से भी महत्वपूर्ण है सकारत्मक दृष्टिकोण का सृजन होना ! सर्व प्रथम सकारात्मक दृष्टिकोण रूपी बीज पारवारिक परिवेश में ही रोपित होता है, तदोपरांत सामाजिक परिवेश में इसका पोषण होता है, इसका विशर्जन होता है, दूसरों को प्रभावित करता है !
वस्तुत:उन्नतिशील व् सकारत्मक दृष्टिकोण , मौलिक शिक्षा का प्रतिफल है , जो हमें पारवारिक परिवेश में, माता पिता व् अन्य परिवार जनों के सानिध्य में मिलना शुरू होता है, जिस हम अच्छे संस्कार मिलना भी कह्देते हैं ! दरअसल इन संस्कारों कि नीव माँ के गर्भ में ही पड़नी शुरू हो जाती है ! अतः, गर्भवती महिलाओं के लिए अति महतवपूर्ण है कि वे हमेशा सकारात्मक सोचने का प्रयत्न करें !
किसी भी तरह कि नियमित, आधुनिक शिक्षा तब तक लाभकारी नहीं हो सकती जबतक हम संकुचित व् अदूरदर्शी नजरिया अपनाएंगे ! मूल प्रशन है कि, शिकिषित होने से क्या अभिप्राय है हमारे सामने हमने क्या लक्ष्य निर्धारित किये हैं ! क्या हमारे लक्ष्य हम तक ही सिमित हैं या परिवार का , समाज का हित भी साधा गया है लक्ष्य निर्धारण में !
इस तरह कि सोच का निर्माण एक अनुशाषित पारवारिक माहोल में ही हो सकता है ! जहाँ माता-पिता, पुत्र- पुत्री के लिए अच्छे आदर्श स्थापित करते हैं , जो दूसरों के भी प्रेरणाश्रोत बनते हैं ! संकड़ों व्यवसायिक शिखा केंद्र खुलने और हज़ारों उच्च शिकिशित समाज में बढ़ने से कितना समग्र विकाश देखने को मिला है ! वही पुरानी समस्या एक नए रूप में ! पुरानी अव्यवस्था कि भीड़ में एक और रेला !

दीपिका जी ने बिल्कुल सही कहा, आन्दोलन स्वयं से शुरू होता है, परिवार से शुरू होता है ! पहले स्वयं को जागृत करें , फिर औरों को जगाने के लिए प्रभात फेरी लगाएं ! वयक्तिक तोर पर अपनी सोच को आंदोलित करें ! प्राकृतिक नियमो से स्वयं छेड़छाड़ न करें और न ही अपने संपर्क में रहने वालों को करने दें! कम से कम मूक रह कर सहमति न दें ! लिंगभेद एवं भूर्ण हत्या प्रकृति के नियमो के खिलाफ भी हैं और पाप भी ! भ्रूण को पोषण करने वाली मां कि भी स्वतः ही हत्या होती है, बार बार होती है ! यह प्रक्रति के खिलाफ एवं एक सभ्य समाज के समक्ष अनुशाशनहीनता कि इन्तहा है ! किसी भी सामाजिक चेतना व् जनांदोलन के लक्ष्य निर्धारण में लिंग भेद एवं भ्रूण हत्या का समूल नाश के प्रति वचनबधता का होना ही एक समग्र क्रांति कि प्रतिबधता को दर्शाएगी ! अतः हमारे समाज के हर जिमेदार नागरिक को निजी तोर पर प्रण लेने और सच्चे पर्यास कि आवशयकता है !

क्रमश .........

कोई रास्ता लंम्बा नहीं, अगर सहयात्री अच्छे हों !..एक तुर्की कहावत !