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sumeetmalik
September 4th, 2008, 12:19 AM
Jats although have proved themselves again and again in various fields but still they are perceived mistakenly. The stereotype is of no nonsense, simple friend for life who believes in hard work. Now there is nothing wrong with it but trouble arises when we get typecast. It’s similar to a good actor’s dilemma; type cast gets him work but doesn’t allow him to show his brilliance. He knows there is much more potential in him than the world knows. Hence an actor avoids it at all costs before selling out. Or if he is Shahrukh Khan, he manages to market his stereotype well.

Part of the stereotype is convenience. It serves other communities/races well if a good Jat officer is taken as a Punjabi. The officer also doesn’t bother much to shout from the top of the roof that he is a Jat. And probably with right reasons. Mending that public view is another topic of discussion. A long and perhaps a more controversial one.

However, here we are talking about bettering our social and communication skills that will not just improve the image of Jats but their careers and lives as well.

It’s no hidden thing that although Jat Models have drop-dead looks but they fail to transition into acting smoothly because of their social and communication skills. They do not know how to network and to confidently deliver a line. This story gets repeated everyday in Mumbai.

In a recent example of Olympic Bronze Medalist Vijender Singh talking to TV, I saw that he was struggling with his English. And I doubt he was asked by the reporter to speak in English since there were other athletes speaking in their respective mother tongues. Although part of his interview is adorable (stereotypical hard working village lad from a poor family), we should also realize that if he can articulate his passion well, he would be perceived as a bigger hero.

Also, an athlete like Vijender has an exceptional talent that can overshadow the lacuna in his communication skills. But the Jats who don’t have an exceptional talent, what do they do? Obviously there is a purpose to their lives on this planet. How do they articulate and communicate that.

I think the answer is simple and it is so obvious that we fail to recognize it. All it takes is a dialogue. Yet it’s not easy. Connecting with people on a genuine level and still being your true self takes a lot of courage. Like so many other people I have also been socio-phobic, put my head down and worked my ass off thinking that it will work my career and life out.
However, I have not been completely right in thinking that I can be an island. So sooner we lose the inhibition to connect with as many different people, the better.

Now you would ask that how is connecting with people helping you out. So many Jat guys in fact have told me that networking is such a dirty word. When you have a genuine dialogue with a person, the other person tries his might’s best to help you attain your best. Call it God’s will or whatever, it is a basic human nature to be understood and understand. If there is any connection between two people, it’s because of that. And since man is a social animal, a lot of his life is determined by his social skills.

I have seen magical things happen to me as I am opening to people. Things that I desire happen on their own. Connecting with people outside of the communities will also change the perception of Jats. People will finally get to understand us and we in turn will understand ourselves better. Also when you open up, a whole new world of possibilities open up for you.

The purpose of this thread is to thus talk about some very practical tips that have worked for you as a Jat or lets say as an individual in the society. Since most of you are extremely successful in your own fields, I have a feeling you are good at your social and communication skills.

I know I have played the Jat card to get things done and sometimes I have deliberately stayed away from it. Lets talk about all of it and try to build up something that can be used by all of us.

Waiting to hear from you guys.

deepshi
September 4th, 2008, 05:25 AM
Tips: Just be urself...people know when u r a fake..n its a BIIIG turn-off..
I detest pretentious guys...

n feel proud to be wot u r,,believe in urself n trust me, people will believe/look up to u..u entice them with ur genuineness and of course highlight the qualities JATs specially have...like confidence, sense of humour, wits and naive disposition..

P.S: M a social leper..a social wreck..:D,, not that I lack confidence,, but just that I feel awkward n stuck
n others come to my rescue:p
But like you ,when i started to open up,,i feel mixing up with others is not thaaat bad!! just needs some of ur time...

ygulia
September 4th, 2008, 06:00 AM
Sumeet you are right. In case of Vijender Kumar, he has got the opportunity and it is the right time to encash it. He should now invest some money in grooming himself and developing communication skills. If he does that then he can make lot of money. He needs to hire a proper consultant to advise on such matters. But unfortunately majority of jats considers such spending as useless.

brahmtewatia
September 4th, 2008, 09:05 PM
JAT’s in today’s world… In my attempt to come face-off with the reality, I gather above post in my perspective as follows:

JAT’s being successful … Here I can quote numerous examples of JAT’s, who are doing well and have been greatly acknowledged irrespective of being stereotype or type-cast. Well that's beyond the subject and I won’t talk about it any further.

JAT’s lacking in communication skills … YES that’s very much true !!! in fact this happens to be an area where we need to open up, more specifically our outlook and horizons. Having said so, please make no mistakes, because this is an area where JAT’s cannot do wonders overnight. Very simply the only solution that I can foresee is education and exposure to the world outside. We are definitely moving towards it and it’s just a matter of time when you’ll find JAT’s standing at par with any brand-shots of a specific community.

Sumeet stressed the necessity of connecting to people outside your community… very true, and I agree 100% !!! At the same time, it must be acknowledged that he says so because he got the opportunity to do so… I mean meeting new people… visiting different places, as part of his job profile (…I guess). The fact however remains, that not everybody gets that chance.

So now, how shall we go about it… taking this point of view a bit further socially and adding more to what many would call as stereotype rhetoric… I would say that where ever we are, where ever we go and whatever we do, we must try to strengthen JAT identity and JAT unity by fostering sustainable and community based connections among other communities. I firmly believe, this can be achieved through parallel social service initiatives, dialogue, and leadership training. It is time for us to explore a world in which JAT’s everywhere and anywhere can work together and contribute to one another. We as a community should be able to cooperate more cordially, thereby adding mutually to the greater goal of facilitating and enhancing the JAT experience. This eventually would switch people's understanding of how JAT’s worldwide can move forward and achieve greater cohesiveness as a people and/or as a community.

Easy said then done !!! but that’s what I believe. ;):cool:

On the personal front, I must confess honestly without mincing my words that there have been instances, where I wish, I would have told the world (… I mean the people around me) that YES here I am… a JAT true to his character, :cool: but I failed often times because I couldn’t express myself in my local language, when it was required MOST. :o This is contrary to the example of Vijender quoted above by Sumeet. I wish any Boswell of JAT community… may be his coach or some senior educated member in his family should have briefed/guided him in simple words, about the media that he is going to embrace, on his return from Beijing. I guess he should have simply adhered to his local language, with inclusion of his local dialect as well. There wasn't any need for him to use ungrezi at all… He surely has done our JAT community proud… as rightly said by Sumeet above… he would have done us more proud if he had articulated his passion well, indeed he would have been perceived as a bigger hero.

From my personal experience, I would say that an educated JAT is a class apart. He is very predominantly distinguished where ever he goes and whatever he does… more such creatures are in the development stage… ;) watch out JAT-WORLD after 10 years from now... as of now I only wish there should have been some one called Barkha Jat (Barkha Dutt) on a predominant Indian news channel, to be our brand ambassador... for rest, please check my SIGNATURES. :D

jogindersejwal
September 5th, 2008, 12:34 PM
well sumit bhai ur right but after some time we definitly done miracle..:o
भाई हमारी कमजोरी अंग्रेजी में चेप दी चलो में इसकी हिन्दी कर दूँ

जाट का भाग्य हे की वो Delhi के आस पास के प्रान्तों में रहता हे, यदि वो सुदूर प्रान्तों का रहने वाला होता तो इस से भी बुरा हाल हो ! यह एक शर्मीली जात हे जहा इसका अपना समुदाय हे वहां ये शेर हे एक बड़ी ताकत हे , हाँ जब भी इसे मोका मिला हे जाट ने साबित किया हे कुछ बन कर जाट का नाम रोशन किया हे !

आप सभी जानते हो ख़ुद देखते भी हो घर से दूर अपने को जाट बताने के बाद सामने वाले का जाट के प्रति नजरिया ही बदल जाता है, जितने भी जाट कामयाब हुए वो सब अपनी सोची समझी से किसने जाट को आगे बढाया हे !
अभी जाट ने घर से निकलना शुरू किया हे, वो सिख रहा हे, सिखने के बाद देखना इसमे बुलंद होंसले तो हे ही कमी केवल बोलने की ही हे ! जब सिख जाएगा या जो सिख गए है , मुझे नही लगता जाट कभी रुकेगा \ रुकेंगे
बस मेरे विचार से एक बार निकल कर संभलने की जरुरत हे

आज का जाट विद्यालय में कंप्यूटर व् लप टॉप प्रयोग कर रहा हे , जब यह हमारी व् आपकी तरह मार्केट में आएगा तो छा जाएगा और हमें ये सब लिखने की जरुरत नही होगी हम जाट और आगे की सोचेंगे !

मेहनत के साथ साथ जाट अगर स्मार्ट भी रहे तो इसमे चार चाँद लगने वाली बात हे
आओ हम सब मिल कर एक नए जाट समाज का निर्माण करे , जहाँ भी जाट मिले कम से कम उसे सही मार्गदर्सन जरुर दे विशेष कर बच्चों को !
Jai Jat :rock

anilsinghd
September 5th, 2008, 06:17 PM
Excellent topic Sumeet and I appreicate that you covered the problem as well as few of the solution steps in one single post of yours.

I agree to Brahm's view that in this sitution specific instance of Vijender , he would have been much better off to speak in Hindi , What are news channel translators for , they get paid for that , right ?

Buiding on that I would say that a two pronged approach would help a lot.


1. Confidence in whatever we have.
2. Building on 1) and Adding new things to our reportoire.

IF we guys speak Jat-ish lanugage , what's the harm , everywhere in the world people speak local dialects and all , and we must always keep in mind that knowing English ain't everything in life. Personal Experince , most of germans are not at all effecive communicators in English , but they dont lack any confidence , infact are prudent about their language.

An Effective communication is not a good communication in English and realising that is perhaps the first step to go about things. :) We must be able to communicate what we exactly feel and think , thats utmost important before attempting to make it in English.

I also understand that in this competitive world and coming up of all MNC's and the culture that is practised there , it is of importance to know the English as an language and also know some social skills.

I would cite none other than mine example in that:
Till 2005 ( my 3rd year at IIT ) , I was the usual stammerer when it came to talking with people in English language and even otherwise , in a sense afraid of people , avoiding discussions , avoiding groups of people.
In fact situation was of the order that I used to think for at least a couple of minutes , dwell on it a lot before even attempting to ask the proffessor any question. Such was the level of diffidency ( if that's the right word ? ) , that was embedded in me.

Cometh the 4th year and a bit of relaxation of the taxing studies , I tried to broaden my links and horizons and some of you would not believe if I say that coming online and interacting with people helped me a lot. From a Jat community on orkut and a lot of interactions there ( 4-5 hours on daily basis ) , I gained in confidence. People did appreciate my soft and simple humour , my thoughts and views , that made me gain the confidence to do the next step : Approach people.
That changed my life , Interacting with people is probably the best one can do to gain social skills and get over the barriers that are in everyone's mind. Not only you know how other people behave ( rational at times and very irrational at others ) but you also know how you yourself fare in certain situations.

Today I have total self confidence in approaching people , I guess I have good speaking skills ( writing skills were always OK!). Pretty comofortable in my company's global office with 40 people of 12 different countries.

And as the author of the thread has already said , these are very important.
:)

Probably I would envision a thread after the conclusion of this one in which people can really help each other ( something similar to the Interview tips by DK ) to gain these very important tools of success. :)


Cheers,
Anil

Rmandaura
September 5th, 2008, 07:59 PM
Sumeet you have aptly described the importance and need for socialising and communicating by jats in today's world. Jat by nature is introvert but once that barrier is broken jats can also be very articulate in putting across their point of view. As Anil Dalal has described how he would stammer in 2005 and now is comfortable in dealing with persons from all across the world. It is just a matter of stepping out and wonderful things will happen.

Way back in 1964 when we entered our Engineering College we were completly lost. We were 5/6 Jats in our class and seriously took up the challenge, came out of our shells and saw that it was not at all difficult.
It is just a mental block,start communicating in whatever way you feel comfortable improvement will come naturally. Jat by nature is very honest, hardworking, truthful and confident but lacks in communication skills and once it is aquired no one can hold a jat back. I am new to Jatland and boys I am delighted to see your concern for your fellow jats. Brahm is right that educated jat is a class apart and 10 years hence see the ********, there wil be no dearth of Brand Ambassoders.

And Deeepshi keep it up and start mixing up, there are no boudaries.
Joginder bhai jat boys are not only using computer and laptop in colleges but their parents are also using laptops in homes, so the World be ready JAT has arrived.

sumeetmalik
September 11th, 2008, 09:57 AM
Thanks guys for all your inputs. There are some common threads that have emerged out of the discussion to be an effective Jat in today's society.

Being yourself is first. We all know we cannot lie to ourselves; Maybe for a while but truth catches up sooner or later. And when it does it gets ugly. Another very important factor to keep in mind is that you have no control over how you are perceived by the other person. You can use grooming, superior and confident communication skills (as stressed by others) to be generally likeable and agreeable. But if you are putting on an act to be liked then it is a big mistake. You don't want those people in your life. Whenever I go out and meet the 'fakes' which now I can tell in a few minutes, I try to politely get out of the conversation and move on to other people. There have been so many instances that I have ignored their friends request over social networking sites. The point I am trying to make is there is no real connection if you or the other person is not being himself/herself.

Another thing that comes up again and is confidence. What is it really? Try to think of the few moments in your life that you have been truly happy to have your life, your being. How you felt at that time is what confidence is. Next time you are interacting, think about it.

Nobody, I repeat nobody owns you and your actions as an adult. In the west, adults are on their own much sooner than Indian kids, so I will give you 21-25 years. After that you cannot blame your life on anyone else. Life is a series of cause and effects (we might not know all) triggered by our actions and the sooner we owe up to it, the better.

Another thing that came up is introversion. Like Mr. Dahiya said, come out of it. There is no bigger joy in this world than a true expression. Go on and tell that girl that you like her laugh (genuine compliments only!) and tell her a good Sundu or Tau joke to make her laugh again. Go and tell your mother that how much you really appreciate the small things she does for you still, and spoils you.... You must realize that whatever and however beautiful thoughts and ideas that you might have, they won't be appreciated until you put them out there. Sure it's a bit tough in the beginning since you are being vulnerable but soon you will realize that so is the person you are interacting with. After all he or she is human as well (I suppose!).

Once again thanks for all your inputs. Keep them coming and as I pleaded in the editorial thread, keep them as 'clean' as possible. There are some other very important points that I would like to touch to keep growing as effective communicators and social beings.

amans
September 18th, 2008, 01:26 AM
This thread makes the discussion very simplistic.

Bhai loogoon outside confidence does not tell what kind of person you are dealing with. I stayed for 10 days with a professor who was Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. He watched porn while his wife and daughters aged 6 and 7 just went to sleep in next room. I walked 3 miles to eat as he won't let me eat at times. I asked him to help me move to my room in Univesrity but he made threatning gestures and refused.

He is one of the founders of a jat association in US.

My own relatives told me to shut up about him as they wanted to use him. Yes sir and madam they said the exact words.

Looking outside you will be duped and think he is friendly and not "fake".
He has a good reputation in the University.
See him outside and he is all smiley, friendly, easy going.


Even one of his own (18 year old at that time) relatives who stayed with him for a short time tried to give his "real photo" to his uncle but his uncle would not believe him.


One has to stay and be dependent on a person for a short time to get the real picture (may be).

Bhaiiyoon hamare yahhan par kabhie kabhie aadmi ke umar aur usee kya phayaada ho sakta hae uske position ke base par dekh kar uska character dekha jaata hae.

sumeetmalik
September 22nd, 2008, 05:05 AM
Thanks Aman. Although we like the discussion to be simple but in no way simplistic. So here are few more thoughts on the topic. Starting off where you left.

You are quite right in saying that we weigh the people by their age and in what way they can be helpful to us. In fact, Jat being a relatively closely tied community, it is much more prevalent. A simple example would be the awe we bestow upon politicians. I read about the auto rickshaws with 'Hooda Express' stickers behind them in one of the threads.

I myself have come across a senior (a daughter married off) well placed Jat who would screw anything that moves. And I came across him because of family ties so that I could get some help in career. I was naive at that time to believe the person as my hero. After all he had everything. However, as you said as you get to know people more, you get to know the greyer areas. And I realized that since I had made him such a hero, the more he fell in my eyes.

The point is that people are complex (with even more complex sex lives). Yet you need to trust them to move forward. And along the way you hope that your judgment about people gets better.
In the other Editorial thread, Parvir Singh Dalal, wrote something beautiful and relevant and I am quoting him here.

‘The greatest reason for our slavery has been that our strength, compassion and love, which has led to building stable families and our deep philosophy, has also led to forgiving and forgetting very easily. We have never really punished the perpetuators of the most heinous crimes in our history. Our strength has thus become our weakness. Too much of misapplied goodness is counterproductive. One should first analyze, who he is applying his good intentions to.
I do not know the key to success but I can tell you the key to failure and that is trying to please everyone.’


So there is no point in losing compassion or not believing in heroes if we have been disappointed in the past (I have met some great people here on Jatland and come across some real asses too. I am sure everyone has had that journey.)

Compassion, after all keeps us fluid. And that is what I think it’s about. To be a successful Jat in today’s society, you have to be compassionate. If confidence is outer cover, compassion is inner material. You can’t fake it. That is all by the way from Leadership and Org. Behavior 101:-p.

praveerdhaka
October 1st, 2008, 02:41 PM
dear sumit i have only read your last comment, and you have come out as a very mature person. your comments on your hero were heartbreaking. although u have your reasons for them, everyone has flaws and they should not become an excuse to tarnish their image. after all i feel your expectations were more on the selfish side.

remember people can come out with similar comments for u in future.
yours praveer

sumeetmalik
October 3rd, 2008, 12:18 AM
Thanks Praveer for calling me out on that one. I didn't take enough time to explain the whole story.

No doubt, I met this gentleman for solely selfish reasons in the hope that I can get in touch with some influential industry people. And I got all the help in the world from him. Now being a normal grateful person, I extended all the little help I could to him. Soon he trusted me well and I was always a phone call away for some of his small tasks. Meanwhile I could learn immensely just by being around him since he was such a great leader and communicator. He was an epitome of almost all the good visible qualities of a Jat. Tall, proud, compassionate towards people. I absorbed as much as I can. I mostly look for inspiration and this man could inspire me with his attitude. You get the drift.

I almost gave him the status of my Grandfather (Ch. Raj Singh Dalal), who was the greatest Jat I have come across personally. He was a man who didn't have an ugly side. At least I couldn't see it in the sixteen years of my life that he was around.

So this gentleman one day asks me for something that I have to draw a line and say no to him. And before not committing to him, I had a sensible discussion with my then girlfriend. And she was the one who thought the man was completely right in his request and that I shouldn't call him a fallen hero.

In hindsight, I took away two things from that episode. One morals and ethics are different. I was mixing them up at that stage in my life and being judgmental. Like I said I was naive at that time.

Secondly, like Pravir Singh Dalal also said, our greatest strength is also our greatest weakness. Passion can be strength if articulated well. Jats are passionate people. But if you don't know how to handle it, then it results in a conflict. This story also gets repeated everyday on Jatland in so many threads. It happened with me then.

In fact, I wanted to discuss a little about it quoting from one of my favorite writer Hugh Mcleod.

‘Every media's greatest strength is also its greatest weakness. Every form of media is a set of fundamental compromises; one is not "higher" than the other. A painting doesn't do much; it just sits there on a wall. That's the best and worst thing about it. Film combines sound, movement, photography, music, acting. That's the best and worst thing about it. Prose just uses words arranged in linear form to get its point across. That's the best and worst thing about it etc.’

Similarly speaking, non-verbal signs is also a medium. Some people are naturals at it while some acquire it. The good thing is that it gets better with learning and age.

Hope I have explained a bit about the difference between judging well and being judgmental.

And Praveer, don’t just read my last post. Read the thread and happily join the discussion. I think we are at a great point now where we have already talked about the obvious. The discussion from here will only get more interesting!

brahmtewatia
October 3rd, 2008, 04:32 PM
We all are judgmental to a certain extent and that's human. And yet, while it is in our nature to be judgmental, I don’t think it’s always useful to us. We look down on others, as if we are so much better… and that creates division between people. It takes more time and effort to really get to know a person before judging him/her. I’m not sure if we can totally override our preconceptions, which play a great role and at times can be deceptive. It is very easy to jump to conclusions about people based strictly on how they look, the fact is we all do it even though we don’t like to admit it.

I think we must try to quieten our preconceptions while we delve deeper. The outlook of a person shouldn’t matter nor should their age, sex, weight, or what clothes they wear. There are many interesting, smart, and valuable people that don’t fit into the stereotype mold that our society has created. It is up to us to decide how we will judge people and that's where your personal experience can be instrumental in making your judgment. After South Africa got independence, in early 90's, I've come across some locals who have amassed a fortune over a short period of time and are filthy rich. Its no joke, as I say this to you... if you are a person whom looks matter a lot, then for this guy, whom you would think twice even to throw a penny... you'll get shock of your life when you see him/her coming out from a Merck CL or BMW 7 series. looks, indeed can be very deceptive.

A judgment formed on basis of reasonable deliberation might actually help in timely recognition and correction of problems. Being judgmental, though, ought to be coupled with grace. Accept it when you made a wrong judgment and learn from it. In my brief experience at JATland, I remember very precisely the times where I was forced to be judgmental (off course for very obvious reasons) but realized very soon as to where I need to draw a line. Many thanks to some good advises which I got while interacting with some fellow and senior members.

some people have this natural tendency of judging people at very early stage, oftentimes as good as in their first meeting. I must confess that I am very poor in judging people, as such I have to rely on thumb rules which I have created/learned over a period of time, honestly speaking it has helped me a lot as I am never taken by surprise, and if I do, then its always me to be blamed.

anilsinghd
October 3rd, 2008, 08:35 PM
Hi All,

Sorry for a bit off ! Ofcourse sitting in these markets , you dont get much time , but I sure was following each and every post! :)

Happy to see new faces joining in not only on this thread but otherwise as well.

Infact once I thought of writing and main focus would have been that we must not let ourselves be case specific , but then I read Sumeet's first post twice and the message that "some practical tips" stopped me to comment! We can take these situation specific posts as case studies.

I would try to be example based in my this post.

Regarding knowing people/judging people , and specially if that you are doing professionally , I would advise against extreme behaviour. What I intend to put across is the message that dont be too pessimistic and at the same time , dont be too optimistic about how they behave. I have always advocated that ;human behaviour is something very complex and one cannot generalise on at least this! One has to be person specific , individualistic approach should do more good.

What for a start? Absorb! Try and be neutral , dont assume , start with scratch. Find out more about him before taking liberties. I have found some very very nice people ( foreigners ) on job , who are very helpful and you can approach them personally. Also have come across some very shrewd guys who would not let an iota of opportunity to let you in their personal lives. Office over and you are a stranger. So you got to filter.

Another thing that I would like to generalise ( Ooops! Did i say I am an individualistic approach follower above? :)) , never take liberties against Indians settled abroad or who come across your life in professional set up.
Barring exceptions , they are least helpful ( or at least you would percieve them that way!) Reason : Well ofcourse being the intelligent strata some are arrogant and also they being Indian you try for a bit too much than what professionally is feasible! :) So its not their fault , it's yours if you are being too assumptive about them!

Let me take an example: A senior colleague (Indian) has come into a new role in our organisation and by coincidence I am his resource. Now on emails he was sounding so arrogant but in person he is soft guy and did tell me on why and how of things ? He was being true to himself , helped me understand my role , helped me in justifying the crap work that I was doing for him :D! Good that I did not assumed too much about him , because once I tried to reach him personally and he was being rude and harsh and I realised at once that I have to be professional and cannot assume ( though the hypothesis was a strong one , not only he is an Indian , he comes from the same Institute as I am , so a senior as well)!

=============================

Bottom Line : Be very stable , emotionally strong , controlled in a professional set up!


PS: Come up with substantiation and/or critic of what I am saying. Ofcourse may be personally on my visitor message/email so as to discuss and also at the same maintaining the sanctity of the Editorial Section.


Regards,
Anil

praveerdhaka
October 4th, 2008, 04:15 PM
dear sumeet excuse for not going through the whole thread. reading the theread i got the perception that the main topic is "how to cultivate good communication skills?" the discussion also revolves around the necessity of cultivating this skill.
their have been digressions when members have expressed the apprehension that
the necessity of this skill is overemphasised.
then their is the spatial discussion where we veer off the point and human personality
is discussed in the context that everything is not what it seems.
the most fruitful are the contributions by bramh p tewatia and anil dalal.
whereas one warns us not to assume things by peoples apppearence, the other
advises us to filter people and then let them enter your lives.

these two contributions can definitely help in building good social skills.
dear sumeet your greatest quality is that you recommend moderation.
we need to give space to people before pronouncing judgment on them.

dear friend since you are from media and i from literature we both know that truth comes in different colors. people just pickup the one they have been conditioned to all their lives.

all the participants and especially mr dalal believes that the realisation of us being unique pieces of creation goes a long way to improve our personality.

somerset maugham's novel 'Moon and Sixpence' has almost explained version of this discussion. personality is something very difficult to explain and typecast.

yours

Praveer

sumeetmalik
October 9th, 2008, 12:56 PM
Thanks Praveer, Brahm and Anil. Bhram thanks for sharing your experiences about not judging the book looking just at the cover; Anil you are quite right in your assessment about Indians settled abroad. Last year, this young Indian couple that has been settled for a while in US, told me that they see fellow Indians with most skepticism when they are approached for a friendship. So it is wise to take it slowly in those relationships.

I love this discussion as I am learning a lot. I being me, love to philosophize a bit and get into storytelling. But I will try to get to the point as soon as I can. So bear with me.

Also no doubt we need to balance between the abstract and real in this discussion. Since we are dealing with Human nature, the discussion will get a bit abstract. So please do not hesitate to share personal experiences (to the point you are comfortable) if it helps the discussion since the ultimate aim is to build something for other members.

One more thing, we wouldn't be able to build a rich discussion without different points of views. So please do not hesitate to criticize any IDEA.

In fact, this is the key to greater social and communication skills. Ideas. The most important work lesson that I acquired in Media is that ideas are what need to be judged in a professional environment. This might hold true in your personal life as well if you are too cerebral. This will save you from all professional and most personal fights. Just remember to never criticize people but criticize the idea. And I mean look at both the positive and negative sides of it. This will eliminate the ego i.e. the person will not take it personally and you will come across as a person who can speak his/her mind and be liked generally.

Of course petty mentality will prevail at times and some people will take the remarks personally but donít get swayed by it, as the people who matter to you will understand.

And lastly, it will make the end result of the project/task you are working on better.

brahmtewatia
October 10th, 2008, 12:49 PM
When I first went through the title post, I was a bit confused as to what exactly is the line of discussion? This thread being in our newly started 'Editorial Section', I ensured myself to be very specific by reading all posts several times, before stamping my 1st post. In order to be specific and not deviating from the line of discussion, honestly speaking I was initially, a bit nervous too. The reasons were very obvious, since a lot has been talked in our other forums about the topic getting derailed. Also, I immediately realized my folly, when Sumeet requested not to use SMS type language in this section, which otherwise I enjoy writing.

Many thanks Praveer and Sumeet for the words of appreciation. I myself feel more comfortable after above summarization by Praveer, where-in he has talked about the digressions and has very explicitly picked them up without going through the entire thread. Digressions are a bit obvious if we are talking on subjects like these. Its like a group of thoughts which are revolving around but ultimately converging on the main line of discussion. I guess, Sumeet has already explained this in his above post, the reasons for the discussion to get a bit abstract.

I may be a bit off-topic, but I guess I have communicated what I want to say and that is the subject we are talking off !!! ;)

choudharyneelam
October 11th, 2008, 01:16 PM
Interesting interaction going on :)

Here's a little thought from my side.

Jats today are striving to make the best and creating an indispensable identity of their own. And as discussed by the members, eminently required thing is to socialize more and more. They(Jaats) being very shy/introvert by nature, restricted in approach, sometimes make it difficult for themselves to bring out their basic instincts and thus affects directly to their personality.

But with the expanision of knowledge and opportunities, many have attained high and created a better image for the entire community, which earlier was not regarded like that. Communication and social skills are still on the process of development among many, but that's fine as learning takes place till death.

As taken the example of Vijender Singh, I agree that he was not feeling comfortable and pleasing enough while talking with media, as it might be for the first time that he was insisted to make use of this commonly used language, English. Some of you didn't appreciated that much, but I feel that what all he experienced or we observed, happened something bright for his future. At that time he felt a little hesitant and must be very confused to present himself in front of many, using his words in broken language but that might given him a thought to learn this as another language.

It can't be denied that he made the whole community proud by his best performance and it would be more pleasing when we'll all watch again this young lad with greater achievements including a fluency of english words spoken with full confidence and charm- quality which is very much inherent in all Jats.

But, mannerism needs to be filtered/ refined. This will add more to the personality.

Just because of mannerism, still I find people have bad notions for us. A little narration of the same due to which I felt like that. While commuting to our college alongwith my other friends in cab, one among us belonging to Aggarwal community most of the time behaved like bratty and all the absurd kind language/words she made use of, which I always observed quietly but others were annoyed by that(not only in cab but also in college). And then another girl commented, 'Priya(name changed here), Neelam sitting here is Jat, but by behaviour you look more of that kind'. Though they used very appreciable words for me which I didn't mentioned to shorten the statement, but even after hearing beautiful words for myself I was little disappointed to know that what sort of image is being created by Jaat people in the society.

piyush83
October 11th, 2008, 09:08 PM
I experienced a similar incident to the 1 neelam ji mentioned, i overheard one girl say "u know that Akanksha she is jat..." I felt so pissed off i told the girl that Im also jat and gave her a speech about what proud and successful, hardworking beautiful people we are and ended by calling her cow. A lot of the pandits seem to think we are a lower class or something, I never knew until that day. This was an indian probably brahmin girl from queenstown, south africa. I suspect she's one of those jealous, insecure type of girls who cannot appreciate a good person, as I know Akanksha, she's also from queenstown, and is a very decent, intelligent and pretty girl plus she's jat.
Jats are amazing people, and people try to put us down many times cos they cannot accept the fact that we're better people than them.

pscil
October 18th, 2008, 06:16 PM
Pahan puje hari mile tu mey puje pahar
isse tu chaki bhali pise khaya sansar

Kabir in the above lines would really have descibed the jats, who are by nature simple and practical folks. Swami dayanand said in his book satyatrpraksh that he saw the seeds of revolution only in one community in India and that was the jats. Jats by nature are simple and straight forward and complicated. What you see is what you get

We however have our shortcomings. I have heard a saying of the banias " the day the jat stop loosing his temper, and the muslim learns maths that day will be the end of us". Not to generalize but be as specific and focused as i can possibly be. We need be more in control of our emotions. To understand emotions is one thing but to be emotional is a very negative trait, which leads to loss of valuable time and resources.

We need to develop sambhav through the practise of vishad yog. doing our karm without attachment to the result of our actions. And lastly never trust anyone, till you have tried him over and over through a great length of time. People are hardly what they appear to be. Make yourself strong because it is easier to conqueror the world than to conqueror yourself.

devdahiya
October 19th, 2008, 01:32 PM
1) wood always floats irrespective of volume of water...so is the talent(irrespective of the cast or creed)....provided it is dry.
2) Honesty and devotion have no parallels.
3) Human beings are blessed with tremendous virtues and those who recognize them and use them for the good of self and society..will have a special place on this planet
4) Sustainability of core qualities while accommodating rapid changes taking place around us decides the future of an individual and a group.
5) The group who sacrifices most for the cause of the very group will lead always.
6) Respect for humanity and a feeling of co-existence with fellow human beings is the key to progress.
7) Patience is the other key which leads to maturity.

sumeetmalik
October 24th, 2008, 12:23 AM
Thanks Neelam and Piyush. As we better our Social and Communication skills, we will be taken as who we really are and not just our 'Mollad and Theth' stereotype. This has to happen as I think we are approaching the tipping point of change.

Thanks Pravir, for your thoughts on being emotional and understanding emotions. You put it so simply and yet its so powerful. Will you elaborate a little more on it?

As I understand, there is nothing wrong with being emotional. People at large listen to their heart while doing anything. Lets take anger as an emotion since Jats are supposed to be losing their temper. There is an upside of anger if we know how to channelize it. The world around us is not ideal and we are bound to get angry sometimes. However when you change the world with that anger, then its a good thing. That anger is constructive. Is that what you mean by the control of emotions?

Finally thanks Dev Kaka for joining the discussion. You always have something original and meaningful to add. You have made so many points in those fifty words of yours that it took me a week to assimilate and take this discussion a bit further. Will you also elaborate a bit on them? You can write anything relevant that you might have written before. Since this is a serious thread that will be visible longer, your words would also be more helpful here.

brahmtewatia
October 24th, 2008, 01:38 PM
I too, tend to differ on what Parvir has said in his following lines :
"To understand emotions is one thing but to be emotional is a very negative trait, which leads to loss of valuable time and resources".

Being emotional is a very personal trait of an individuality and I wont call it negative. I can agree partially that YES it may lead to loss of valuable time and resources, but again it all matters on your take and how you go about it. But then, it also very precisely defines an individual.

We are the best creation of god, because our emotions are known to be highly intense and purest in the circle of life. Popular line of thought says... that you are on the brink of disaster, if you happen to take important professional and social decisions on emotional grounds. This line of thought also highlights that feelings introduce biases into decision making which compromise its soundness.

I would rather disagree on the aforesaid dictum and would say that a good decision-making arises from being able to have intense emotions and to regulate them at the same time <<< (please note this is important). In my opinion individuals who better understood what was going on with their feelings (which at times can be highly intense) during decision making and thus reported them in a more specific and differentiated fashion are more successful. In fact emotions improve decision making by such varied means as boosting attention and memory, enhancing the ability to establish priorities, or sharpening such cognitive faculties as creativity or analysis.

On a personal note I feel that emotional people are usually more aggressive, that obviously includes majority JAT's, me no exception here. However if they can have a sense of reasoning, and can do a proper timely retrospection, i guess they present a different image all together. In short "know thyself" would seem a useful dictum in today's scenario, very obviously in all aspects of life.

Again, from Parvir's previous post :
"Make yourself strong because it is easier to conqueror the world than to conqueror yourself".

beautifully said... giving a personal touch from my perspective, I would like to add from my signatures - "Be yourself, everyone else is already taken".

poonamchaudhary
October 24th, 2008, 07:17 PM
First of all i agree with Mr. Tewatia's views that being emotional is not a negative trait. Emotions are not bad in themselves and still many people are suspicious of emotions of any kind.I dont understand why. If emotions are to be called bad at all than its their excess and not emotions themselves. Excess of everything is bad.On the other hand a person devoid of emotions can hardly be called human. So lets celebrate our emotions and flaunt them too. Again Mr Tewatia emphasised that emotions need to be channelised in order to take the right decisions. Very well said but not just for the sake of decision making, channelisation of emotions should be made a way of life. I would rather call it harmonisation or the state of equilibrium where reason and emotion are in perfect balance. Trouble starts when this harmony/equilibrium is disturbed in favour of either side. Life is where harmony is and beyond it there is only chaos. And it is true for each and every aspect of life and life itself.This equilibrium is the same thing what Pravir called as "sambhav".

As far as mannerisms and behaviour of jats is concerned, it has its own beauty because its honest and true. When we embark on the journey of image makeover and try to project ourselves in a certain way we tend to be a bit dishonest in the process. By this i dont mean that we should not try to improve ourselves. On the contrary we should but lets improve ourselves in a way that we dont lose our identity in the process.

anilsinghd
October 25th, 2008, 12:43 AM
There are a few points I would like to mention in order to make the thread navigate in the right direction! :)

In the very first post the author has clearly stated that the purpose of the thread is to give some valuable practical tips and suggestion , so please try and stick to it whenever possible. We must be looking to converge , compile and implement! Culminate as well i guess! :)


I truly appreciate the quality of the posts here but let us understand that the yardsticks for each are not the same. And also please do not take the words , but rather try and follow the thoughts. Reading Pravir , Brahm and Jyoti , i did not find any contradiction, though Brahm and Jyoti has written that they tend of disagree with Pravir on the issue of emotions.
Brahm has used the term "regulate" and Jyoti used channelization as a tool and excess as a criterion to categorize emotions!
Also it would be great to contemplate more on each and every line to truly understand the hidden views i believe. The line Parvir says : We need be more in control of our emotions automatically indicates the existence of emotions and same is affirmed by Brahm and Jyoti on need to regulate/channelize that.

And all three have directly and indirectly stated that decisions should not be based on the state when one is filled up with emotions. If you ask me , I believe we have different faculties , emotions , brain , senses to name a few and it is very much possible that we are high on one and my "law of averages" forces me to conclude that we would be low on the other at that time. So if we are high on emotions , we are bound to be low on the visionary power.
And after all equanimity is a quality to possess.

So before this thread gets diluted , may I request the author to duly go through each post and try and summarize the discussion/views of the worthy members! :)

devdahiya
October 25th, 2008, 04:46 PM
First of all i agree with Mr. Tewatia's views that being emotional is not a negative trait. Emotions are not bad in themselves and still many people are suspicious of emotions of any kind.I dont understand why. If emotions are to be called bad at all than its their excess and not emotions themselves. Excess of everything is bad.On the other hand a person devoid of emotions can hardly be called human. So lets celebrate our emotions and flaunt them too. Again Mr Tewatia emphasised that emotions need to be channelised in order to take the right decisions. Very well said but not just for the sake of decision making, channelisation of emotions should be made a way of life. I would rather call it harmonisation or the state of equilibrium where reason and emotion are in perfect balance. Trouble starts when this harmony/equilibrium is disturbed in favour of either side. Life is where harmony is and beyond it there is only chaos. And it is true for each and every aspect of life and life itself.This equilibrium is the same thing what Pravir called as "sambhav".

As far as mannerisms and behaviour of jats is concerned, it has its own beauty because its honest and true. When we embark on the journey of image makeover and try to project ourselves in a certain way we tend to be a bit dishonest in the process. By this i dont mean that we should not try to improve ourselves. On the contrary we should but lets improve ourselves in a way that we dont lose our identity in the process.





Good observation this from Poonam.Brahm too has tried to explain it very well and so have all other members in their own good way.


As Sumeet has asked me to explain it in little more details and I have some leisure at my disposal today, I will try make a serious effort in looking at THE JATS in present times with due regards to ever flowing vocal jat emotions out here.

The all important & foremost difference between human beings and all other living beings is the superior brain God has given to human beings which gets better and better with education be it academics or practical learning, provided the learning is constant and progressive to excel as a human being...Unfortunately that desire to LEARN AND IMPROVE CONSTANTLY is not visible in majority of Jats.

We tend to satisfy easily and quickly saying...Bhatera hogya...mauj lyo......This attitude leaves much to desire and shows us in poor light as life demands constant solid efforts towards affluent/dignified existence.


We are the people who seldom learn from our past mistakes and draw better lessons.....in fact we are very poor at that.


We are governed by a false sense of pride of which no body is a taker...we tend to blow too much of our own trumpets...Bad real bad.Let others judge us for our quality and do the talking.


We are only leaders but no body out of us is a follower which is a stalk contradiction of Napoleon's formula of true leadership whichI quote,"...Only good followers can turn into quality leaders as they only know as to how it feels to be a subordinate.'...unquote.



To be contd Please........

poonamchaudhary
October 26th, 2008, 03:45 PM
I thought Idont have much to say on this topic but Dev's saying that we have a "false sense of pride" has set me thinking again. Jats do have this false sense of pride and prestige and they are carrying this bag and baggage for ages.Many of them are dragging many decadent customs and are blind to the changing realities. The problem is that Jats are still too rigid to change and this rigidness comes from the attitude of "what I think is the only truth". Elders still try to force their own thinking on the younger generation .

Yes I am pained to say that we still have a rigid patriarchal set up where men call the shots and women have to silently follow their diktats. We say we are a democratic community but look at the Jat households and you will find an authoritarianism in most of them. Look at the villages where it is more pronounced and you will see that for men its a matter of pride to dominate over women. Many senseless practices are thrust upon all in the name of traditions. And still we come across as the most boastful of communities. Come on!! we seriously need to introspect. In the end I would only wish... May the reason prevail!!

sumeetmalik
November 3rd, 2008, 08:44 PM
Taking the discussion forward a bit. Thanks Dev Kaka for your stress on learning and progressing in life. Now I understand your last post a little better. Will look forward to the continuation.

Poonam, you are right in your rant against typical Jat attitudes and households. However, we are hopefully all learners here which shows from the active participation and readings of the discussion.

To be a successful social being and a communicator, one has to be a life long learner. A very practical tip is curiosity. If you are curious about people, things, life and learning, you will be most successful socially. In fact, curiosity can make you start a conversation with a complete stranger. The other important thing is the power of observation. If you are a good observer you can tune into how and what the person is feeling and just mirror that.

I must say I have made some friends like that. Or even if you don't end up being friends, you connected with a person. You learnt something new to satisfy your curiosity and made some new observations for future.

Jats are known to speak their mind and not be cunning with their words. This can come as a shock to many people and probably that's why we have been stereotyped as rude and crass. However as people get to know us better they realize the true innocent nature of us.

The idea is to keep that nature alive; the child in us alive. Not turn cynical because of the pre-conceived notions of the society. It will have a different view after meeting us. Ultimately the simple nature of ours is the true charm. So turn it on!

P. S. - Will look forward to some more from you guys. This has been a very healthy and fruitful discussion. If there are no more major contributions, we will conclude it.

devdahiya
November 4th, 2008, 08:45 PM
If we talk of present times Jats in certain pockets have realized their folly of KEEPING THEMSELVES ISOLATED FROM REST OF THE SOCIETY(and they are doing well) by looking down on other communities (A DEADLY DISEASE)....Like...arre ow thei chamaar sei ( leave him alone..he is a schedule cast),Ow twi baniya sei,ow tei telli sei,ow tei gujjar sei,ow tei lalchi sei,ow tei chor sei etc-2.....this attitude of jats kept them in their cocoon there by alienating them from the mainstream where there were deep sources of learning as to why a person or group of people behave in a particular manner and what are the good things JATS could learn from these diverse fraternity and evolve and adopt a much more progressive strategy which could have put them on top in today's world as they are very hard working and sincere people but unfortunately that was not to be that way and net result is that we are really pathetic inspite of the fact that we had no problems with roti-kapdda and makaan since very inception in comparison to other groups who could not muster proper food for centuries and remained dependent on casts like JATS and did menial things but today those people have moved on leaving us behind.And unfortunate part is that we are still not learning our lessons correctly.


Then we have a stupid notion that body size and bad mouth can scare this world and put the whole humanity to submission.We are very poor at appreciating others but front runners in slashing the wrists of our own people and that of all others.Even so called educated Jats take great pride in condemning and using insulting words to people just because they like to do it and many of us join these jokers to draw maximum sadistic pleasures out of such downgrading gimmicks.There is no other group more negative than our cast on this front and this is the second largest reason of our failure.




TO BE CONTD.............

poonamchaudhary
November 4th, 2008, 10:10 PM
Why is the discussion going on so slow here... so many jat members and so little to say over a topic that is entirely about ourselves...very surprising!!! This is one section where serious and fruitful discussion goes..and this section registers so little response compared to other sections. Though i am new on this site but this is what i have felt.

Sumeet has accepted the patriarchal mindset present in jats about which i was talking. When i wrote it i was prepared for a criticism from the male members. I am happy that young generation like sumeet is not only open but understanding. It is this attitude which will take us places. Knowing and being aware of the loopholes is the first step towards their plugging. Once we have taken that step the goal does not remain too far.

Jats or non jats learning is important for all and its a panacea for all the ailments of not just one community but society as a whole. Jats are progressing today and there is no field where they have not registered their presence. Good for us!

I will back up sumeet's saying and will add that we must keep our basic identity intact and then improve. The honesty of nature, innocence of heart and clarity of mind that is present in us jats must be preserved and other unwanted traits like brashness and egoism must be moderated to a bearable level if not gotten rid of completely.

sumeetmalik
November 7th, 2008, 01:25 AM
Thanks Dev Kaka and Poonam. And thank you Anil! Sorry I missed to mention last time that you explained the concept of equanimity in communication really well. Your example of Law of Averages is excellent.

As the discussion has progressed, we have come up with some new insights into how Jats have and are interacting with the rest of the world. Dev Kaka, you have brought up some really good reasons of why we are as we are. And I believe you have some more!

Since we are also exploring solutions here, I wonder what is the solution to this Jat attitude problems. The first one of isolation can definitely be countered with interaction outside of Jats. However, again it applies to only those Jats who are willing to learn and change. I have my extended family for example and they don't want themselves or the next generation to leave Rohtak at any cost. Not for education or for making a living or even for a long trip just to broaden one's horizon. Its not that they dont want to progress but they want it within their small world. 'Chaudhar' is what I hear all the time.

Also education alone is not the solution. My Grandmother although hardly 6th Grade Pass, is very modern in her thoughts. And has been for a long time. My mother tells me that she was the first to adopt to Gas Stove while all others resisted in the joint household decades ago. So its not just the wisedom one acquires with age.

So what is it then? Anyone?

brahmtewatia
November 7th, 2008, 01:32 PM
Talking about attitude problem among JAT's, which happens to be our ancestral gift... in my opinion this trait of our's should be harnessed in the best possible manner and for the best possible outcome. It is nice to keep this attitude, let me rather call it "Jatitude"... however, what is important is "how to control this "Jatitude" ? Everybody keeps attitude, but then what is so special about this "Jatitude"? Well, in majority of us it is like an uncontrolled nuclear chain reaction. I don't have to tell you as to what an uncontrolled nuclear chain reaction (Jatitude) can do to harm our interests and identity. It's a great untapped energy that only needs to be harnessed in a controlled way... believe me, if we can harness this Jatitude in a controlled way, the results can be amazing and unbelievable.

A simple reasoning that comes to my mind straightaway on how to have control on this Jatitude is to "know thyself". This has been elaborated by me in my previous post and honestly speaking, I have applied successfully (or trying to...) in my real life. A proper and timely introspection of our own self can take us a long way.

Let me quote you an example out of my life... in a recent initiative taken by one of our worthy member on the thread - A New initiative for JATland (http://www.jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25797)... I initially thought as to why should I become a member, instead I should rather become a judge !!! :cool: (he he he) but the realization didn't eluded me for long, as I realized that it's the contribution towards the community which matters, rather than my "Jatitude". So I am now a worthy member in that proposed group.

But again, easy said then done... but that should be the mantra for all JAT's. There is a great need for us JAT's to come out of our inhibitions and be an extrovert. We don't have to wait for things to happen, instead we should try to make them happen. Doing is the only way of getting things done. I always dream big and have never let my dreams die because life without dreams is like a broken winged bird that cannot fly. Let's take this initiative and never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the Ark... professionals on the other hand built the Titanic. I always play to win, and I am never afraid of losing... oops that's too personal, but I guess any one out here can take a leaf out of my book. :)

Winston Churchill once said, "Attitude is a little thing that makes a big difference"... William James captured the point aptly by saying "The greatest discovery of my generation is that a human being can alter his life by altering his attitudes". I'll conclude my post with a quote from Oscar Wilde... "We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." Changing our attitudes and thought processes are catalysts that will aid in any transformation... and that's the CALL OF THE DAY.

In the last, without adopting a holier than thou stance, all i can say is repeat the off-repeated cliche... Attitude (Jatitude) does help determine Altitude ! :cool:

poonamchaudhary
November 8th, 2008, 05:22 PM
Talking about attitude problem among JAT's, which happens to be our ancestral gift... in my opinion this trait of our's should be harnessed in the best possible manner and for the best possible outcome. It is nice to keep this attitude, let me rather call it "Jatitude"... however, what is important is "how to control this "Jatitude" ? Everybody keeps attitude, but then what is so special about this "Jatitude"? Well, in majority of us it is like an uncontrolled nuclear chain reaction. I don't have to tell you as to what an uncontrolled nuclear chain reaction (Jatitude) can do to harm our interests and identity. It's a great untapped energy that only needs to be harnessed in a controlled way... believe me, if we can harness this Jatitude in a controlled way, the results can be amazing and unbelievable.

A simple reasoning that comes to my mind straightaway on how to have control on this Jatitude is to "know thyself". This has been elaborated by me in my previous post and honestly speaking, I have applied successfully (or trying to...) in my real life. A proper and timely introspection of our own self can take us a long way.

Let me quote you an example out of my life... in a recent initiative taken by one of our worthy member on the thread - A New initiative for JATland (http://www.jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25797)... I initially thought as to why should I become a member, instead I should rather become a judge !!! :cool: (he he he) but the realization didn't eluded me for long, as I realized that it's the contribution towards the community which matters, rather than my "Jatitude". So I am now a worthy member in that proposed group.

But again, easy said then done... but that should be the mantra for all JAT's. There is a great need for us JAT's to come out of our inhibitions and be an extrovert. We don't have to wait for things to happen, instead we should try to make them happen. Doing is the only way of getting things done. I always dream big and have never let my dreams die because life without dreams is like a broken winged bird that cannot fly. Let's take this initiative and never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the Ark... professionals on the other hand built the Titanic. I always play to win, and I am never afraid of losing... oops that's too personal, but I guess any one out here can take a leaf out of my book. :)

Winston Churchill once said, "Attitude is a little thing that makes a big difference"... William James captured the point aptly by saying "The greatest discovery of my generation is that a human being can alter his life by altering his attitudes". I'll conclude my post with a quote from Oscar Wilde... "We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." Changing our attitudes and thought processes are catalysts that will aid in any transformation... and that's the CALL OF THE DAY.

In the last, without adopting a holier than thou stance, all i can say is repeat the off-repeated cliche... Attitude (Jatitude) does help determine Altitude ! :cool:
Amazingly inspiring piece of discourse!!! Three cheers to you sir! "Jatitude" could not have been made more interesting than this. Perhaps nothing more remains to be said about the attitude of jats..i mean jatitude (interesting term!)after this.

Everything is ultimately just a matter of attitude. Its how you see the world that determines how you act. It is said "If you can't change your fate,change your attitude". It sounds so simple but believe me its not that simple when it comes to change the age old beliefs and patterns of thinking. Transformation is a painful processes through which one has to pass in order to reach the "renaissance", the revival of spirit which leads to awakening. An awakened being is one who is most adjusted with the world and the most peaceful with himself. All these problems of communalism and terrorism that have infested our world will disappear themselves when people inhabiting the world are awakened beings. How to attain this awakened state? Mr Tewatia has given the answer...

KNOW THYSELF

anilsinghd
November 8th, 2008, 07:53 PM
This post of mine is in reply to two "bizz" words , one from Sumit ( We are exploring solutions ) and the other from Brahm ( Controlled Jattitude).

Brahm has this knack of picking up words and phrases before me , and he aptly chose the word "harness" for the Jattitude ( or Attitude of Jats).

His personal example of the "New Initiative at JL " was something that first got me to be really pissed off and then calm back myself , ofcourse driven by his reactions.

Exploring the solutions of how to harness the controlled Jattidue , I would put my points in conjunction with a few quotes that i read ( inspired by the habit of substantiation by Brahm with quotes ).


START : It might be confused with youthful exuberance but I call it a start. One has to start a novel idea , a suggestion , a initiative! Do it sooner than later. Ofcourse proper planning and implementation feasibility analysis is of paramount importance but they must be done with "deliberate haste" ( I liked the term Obama used in his first news conference after the win in presedential election ).
Quote:
Thomas Alva Edison (http://www.wisdomquotes.com/002450.html):

Opportunity is missed by most because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work.


Small : is good! Time and again authors of the posts in this thread have conveyed that Jats have considered some tasks too small for themseleves! This sounds like hilarious to me , there is nothing called small! We must start entrepreneurial activities in social /economic/ cultural front without even thinking of these as small or something!
Demosthenes (http://www.wisdomquotes.com/000386.html):

Small opportunities are often the beginning of great enterprises.


Do : more , ask yourself more and ask others more ! Push yourself , push others to get that lil extra out of each. Diversify yourself , thus hedging your life against boredom. Meet out N number of people with M number of varied interests. Do small and little things but lots of them.
Ella Williams (http://www.wisdomquotes.com/002629.html):

Bite off more than you can chew, then chew it.


Transition : from a worker to a leader , dont think of starting off as the leader because it is very much possible that you can show everyone the ideal / most efficient way of doing things and then people can easily repeat it N number of times. Leadership is not about just having those qualities , it might be necessary condition but might not be sufficient, I believe you have to make the followers realise as well that you are the leader and that comes only through showing them how to do things! Remember not everybody is a leader and has those skills to go about things , they do need to be shown things which they just have to copy!

James A. Froude (http://www.wisdomquotes.com/000387.html):
You cannot dream yourself into a character; you must hammer and forge yourself one.


Don't be afraid of criticism , loosing. Have faith! Change as Poonam said does not come naturally , it has to have a resistance , its all but human to resist any kind of change! Be ready to explain , be ready to adapt , be individualistic rather than a generalist , understand uniqueness in characters of people! :)
James Yorke (http://www.wisdomquotes.com/003121.html):

The most successful people are those who are good at plan B.

annch
November 12th, 2008, 06:09 AM
Hi,
It was quite interesting to go through the posts, thanks to everyone in this forum for such insightful thoughts.
Just a comment- how will we remember Vijender Singh in the years to come? For his attitude (jattitude), the fighter spirit et all or his inability to converse in English?
I am proud to be a Jat, in fact too proud. I admire the fighting spirit, not against people but against circumstances. I admire the honesty and straight forwardness, not to hurt but to behold righteousness. Every time I have heard about transparency, ethics and Corporate Declaratives, it reminds me of Jattitude.
And what we do not learn Herbert Spencer's survival of the fittest would force us to consider. And a Jattitude gives us an edge over others in our attitude of "Who says it cannot be done, dare a Jat and he/she, :), will"....

sunit
December 12th, 2008, 01:53 AM
i wont write much about this topic or in internet terms thread, i think language is a medium of communication rather than a mode of communication, i personally believe that whether its hindi, english or any other language what is more important is that you are able to communicate your ideas. so, even if it is haryanvi(although i am rajasthani) i would be really proud of it, and wont shy away from using my lingua.
JAT MAHAN

devikajakhar
March 10th, 2009, 02:36 AM
Sumeet bhai,

You've hit the nail on the head. Our community's inability to interact with the outside world is quite evident in my aim to help Indian Women's Wrestling Team- all of whom are from our Jat Community.

It took a Tamil Iyer Mr. Venkat.Krishnan of Mumbai to establish contact with each one of them - Geetika, Sonika, Neha rathi etc and on their behalf communicate with the sports Ministry, the International federation of Wrestling and finally with me. Using me as a Medium, he tries to communicate with the enitre Haryanvi Jat Community through our excellent forum - www.jatland.com (http://www.jatland.com).

We need to open up with other communities of our country. Thru Chat when I asked Mr. Venkat, how did he manage to establish ties with us Haryanvi Jats, his reply was, "ńs a Mumbaikar travelling by train everyday, I interact with people from all parts of our country. We mumbaikars appeal to the Human heart, which is the same in every Human being". It is this attitude which has helped South Indians and Gujarathis succeed all over the world and survive in every circumstance.

What hampers us Haryanvi Jats is our Clannish Racial Pride in our Fair Skin, Bravery, Strong Handsome Physique and our fighting prowess. This makes us look like NAZIS OF INDIA and making other communities despise us.

One good step is to establish friendship with people of other communities. I would even go to the extent of suggesting that we Haryanvi Jats Marry people from other communities!

With Warm Regards,
Devika

sachinb
March 10th, 2009, 03:56 PM
There is no need of going to that extent, why it is required suppose a Jat marries a non jat and that marriage fails then? So many marriages fails,

As per you other communities are having reasonably good relations with different communities, do they believe in inter-cast marriage or that is happening because they are marrying in other casts, Sorry, all the castes have same reservations about inter-cast marriage



One good step is to establish friendship with people of other communities. I would even go to the extent of suggesting that we Haryanvi Jats Marry people from other communities!

With Warm Regards,
Devika

ajayrohtak
March 18th, 2009, 10:46 PM
Well all Castes are great in themselves but for me Jats are different from other castes.To secure the future of our coming generation we need to refurbish the mindset of our people who are still very innocent in terms of social and economic awarness.There is no doubt that things are changing which is heartening to see but still majority of Our JAT GIRLS are not getting the desired freedom which they deserve.

rakeshdhaka
April 3rd, 2009, 04:33 PM
Aaj se 25 saal pahle doondane se X class paas ladki milti thi.Oor aaj normally graduate too karwate hi hain.
Pahle nazaria tha ki paanchvi choori paadli chithi baanchni aagi.Lekin samaye ke saath samaz aaraha hai ki ladkiyoon ko bhi paadana chahie.
Ab matrimonial colomn main bhi dhekho to lagta hain ki nazaria badal raha hai jo bahut hi aachi baat hai.
Thanks.

Regards,
Rakesh Dhaka
:tamatar:tamatar

ajaylamba
April 7th, 2009, 12:46 PM
Sumit bhai you have raised a very geniune concern.. as it is affecting mainly the JAT youth.. Being isolated from other communities and living as introverts is a danger to our swift progress. However, JAT-attitude is able to compromise these short-comings in us and if used in controlled manner (I agree whole heartedly with Brahm ji) can totally change how we are looking at opportunities in life. But Anil ji I was expecting more than quotations from your side.

For some of us to make a difference in life it takes a little incident while for others a big loss. But inspite of all this, many have taken the burden to bring about a small change in others life. Devika ji you gave a very good example of such a person. But I disagree that for the sake of communicating with others we marry in their communities.

Dhakaji & Ajay mallik ji I agree in the past the JAT parents were not concerned about Girl education. But today, if you research a little, you will realise that JAT parents are spending more w.r.t. education of their children, when compared with other communities. Even in poor families, JAT girls are educated, though only for the sake of getting a better groom for them. As a result we boys get offers of marriage to over-educated Girls (Most of my Graduate friends are married to Post-Grads Girls...). The only concern remains that though the JAT girls are Highly educated will they be able to use their skills after marriage.(I would like my spouse to choose what she would like to do professionally) But mostly the girls are left to be over-qualified House-wives for the rest of their life after marriage.

ravichaudhary
April 21st, 2009, 03:37 AM
S Even in poor families, JAT girls are educated, though only for the sake of getting a better groom for them. As a result we boys get offers of marriage to over-educated Girls (Most of my Graduate friends are married to Post-Grads Girls...). The only concern remains that though the JAT girls are Highly educated will they be able to use their skills after marriage.(I would like my spouse to choose what she would like to do professionally) But mostly the girls are left to be over-qualified House-wives for the rest of their life after marriage.

Higher education is not simply to get a job.

The lady of the house, in our increasing nuclear families, has to juggle the responsibilities of the

1) the husband, the children , their schooling, the inlaws, the parents, the realtives

2) The house- food, cooking

All in all quite a task, for the lady has to be a 'superwoman' to achieve even part of these tasks successfully.

On top of this she has to also find, and keep a job.

There is nothing wrong with girls working professionally. Indeed it is desirable,- a broader exposure to the world, which can only benefit the family.

Then there is the question of a girl being more educated than the husband, and being a over qualified housewife.

There is no such a thing as an over educated housewife. Education can only benefit the family, as education grows and develops the mind, and there are no limits to education and learning.

We must separate education from 1) income earning 2) bringing up the family

Ravi Chaudhary

Ambijat
July 9th, 2009, 10:35 PM
"What hampers us Haryanvi Jats is our Clannish Racial Pride in our Fair Skin, Bravery, Strong Handsome Physique and our fighting prowess. This makes us look like NAZIS OF INDIA and making other communities despise us."

Please please as if this is the last wish remaining to be fulfilled, the Jats as Nazis. Mind such usage. This is how exactly others want us to behave. Dont create a trap for yourself with such identities as Nazi.

Ambijat
July 9th, 2009, 10:39 PM
Lets not get narcissistic about Jattitude. The best way is to demystify it by self-criticism. Our inability to give a political and social change after ch. Charan Singh shows how weak we are in terms of caste and class consciousness.

tejsd
September 14th, 2009, 09:15 PM
Dear all,
A nice discussion and on an important subject. Having studied and worked outside the 'Jatland' area, I fully appriciate the problem. It is there in a big way and hampers the growth of future generations.
Better communication skills make you a better member of any Forum or discussion. If you cannot put across your point of view, how can you give your opinion? How can you be heard and appreciated.
But most rural Jats lack that .We may give it any term like 'Jattitude' or 'Introvert' etc but the fact is that it there because of our lack of confidence in our self. A Vijender may speak any language and people will listen to him as they would listen to former President Abdul Kalam (with all his southern accent).Either you excel in your field or gain confidence through any other mean.
One way is to ensure that English in our villages is taught in English only and not in Hindi. Second way is to spread this awareness through NGOs specially raised for this. But the most important and most effective way to counter our complex is through, awareness of ourselves. Our youth need to know the good qualities of our culture, background and what the community stands for. Besides our rustic outlook to life we have tell the outside world why we are superior to others. Small things like our widow marriage system as compared to some other communities where they leave their widows to fend for themselves in a strange land. How we respect our elders even while sitting on a Kot/charpoy, where the eldest sits towards the head of the charpoy. Why we do not marry within the same Gotra or the fact that Jats worship their ancestors like many advanced races. The list is endless, if we document these. Isnít our food like 'rabdi' more healthy ,fat free and innovative ? It can act as a dinner as well as breakfast with changing quality and taste, after fermentation
overnight. Lets see the goodness in our culture and make people aware .The job is with the educated and the intellectuals.Lets do it .

karan
October 8th, 2009, 02:48 AM
"What hampers us Haryanvi Jats is our Clannish Racial Pride in our Fair Skin, Bravery, Strong Handsome Physique and our fighting prowess

Hey now, where is this coming from. Jat Men and Women are more handsome than anyone else, our fighting prowess is not up for debate it has been settled once for all in the annals of history, we are stronger than other losers in India. Here are examples...
1. Virendar Sehwag--before he came on the scene no Indian Batsman has ever scored 300 in any country, this soorma did so in pakistan our nemesis. he single handidly holds the record of scoring 300 in 278 balls. He is one of the three batsman in the world to have scored 300 twice. When he steps on the field, other teams give him the respect and they know from offset there is a very good chance they will lose this match to India
2. It was Jat wrestlers, shooter and boxers who made this nation proud and showed the way for other to follow that we do not go to olympics to participate but to compete and win.
3. It was men like Yuvraj Singh who socred 6x6 balls one of the few in world to accomplish this feat
list keeps on going on...
As far as our looks are concerned, ask some Jat men of their conquest in western countries. Our genetics are sturdier and healthier than many other races, communities of Bharat.

Fateh
November 3rd, 2009, 06:19 PM
Karan, I fully agree with you. The problem is jat is like Hanuman who does not know his strength. There is requirement of knowing self & exploiting good qualities & improving on weaknesses. regards

Shibani
December 5th, 2010, 08:58 AM
Some answers to.......How far we (JATS) have come. Although some contributors of the thread are missing in action now but I can't stop myself from recognizing the starter of the thread and members well informed contributions to the same.

vdhillon
December 5th, 2010, 12:37 PM
A great thread, I just chanced upon, quickly perused from start to the end, found most contributors to be of my kind of people in terms of kind of dogma-free people I would like to have a civilized mutually-learning dialogue, have added most of you as a friend. Thanks to all of you. I also noticed that most of you are engaging in a rewarding discussion in a respectful manner, without wasting time in fake niceties or being too apologetic about disagreement. I like this about you guys, to the point, no BS, yet respectful and no one-up manship so far.

I believe this discussion about 'Jats in today's world' can be broadly categorized in 3 areas and we cna pursue all three in parallel though they influence each other.
I will highlight those broad areas and will attempt to quickly high level review the discussion thus far (I do not claim to be comprehensive or accurate in the review).

CATEGORIES: JAT's IN TODAY's WORLD
A. Meta Level (abstract thoughts, almost philosophical ideas): bare touched upon
Things have been barely touched upon at meta level (what is a jat) but not yet explored in details. I suggest to explore the following as well:
A.2 Fundamental Question About My Identity: We human use various associations to define our identity. Association with clan, caste, religion, region, language, family, race, nationality, elite educational or other types of clubs, etc. Different people give different weightage to these factors that define our identity. For some clan/caste association has a higher weightage than (say) nationality or religion. For example: jats who converted to Islam under force (preserve caste and life over religion) vs their next door neighbors who chose to fight and die instead of convert (preserve religious & honor over life). I am not making any value judgement. Example is purely for demonstration. We must discuss at meta level (generalized for most jats) as to what it means to be jat and how does this jat identity fits into other factors that impact our definition of personal identity.

A.2 Who Am I: What it means to be Jat, contemporary definition of being a Jat - AS IS Definition (the way we are, who we are) and TO BE definition (the way we want to be)

[I]A.3 Where I want to go?: Where do we want to see jats to go? 'To Be' definition of being Jat.


[B]B.3 Macro Level (jats within the context of the world): briefly discussed, yet to be explored



C. Micro level (introspection, harnessing jattitude, channeling emotions, gaining communication skills and confidence): primary focus of posts so far.

vdhillon
December 5th, 2010, 02:10 PM
Nice thread, good discussion, impressed with most contributors, way to go.


To understand 'Jat's in todays's world' comprehensively, I propose to simultaneously discussed this on various levels as categorized below:

A. Meta level (abstract and philospophical level). - not discussed so far in this thread
A.1. Sense of Identity - Who Am I? and How does being Jat means to my comprehensive identity.
We use various associations to define our comprehensive identity. Those associations include family, clan/caste, religion, race, nationality, language, elite institutes/clubs (educational institutes, etc) etc. Different people attribute different weightage to these association. For example, for some preserving caste and life is more important (jats forced to convert to islam) vs preserving religion even at the cost of life (jats who chose to fight muslim invaders and die rather than convert). We need to contemplate which one is relatively more important. We can have all of these associations simultaneously, but need to introspect which one I am willing to let go in order to gain in some other areas (e.g. peace, progression, etc) without loosing sense of identity while retaining inner peace, harmony and happiness with oneself (not just ppl and wider society around us)

A.2. What is the essence of Jat
Having discussed the concept of 'Comprehensive Identity and relative weightage of various factors', lets now zero in on 'the essence of Jat'. What is the definition of contemporary jat. Dogmatically hanging on to antiquated false bravado in the name of preserving culture vs retaining good aspect, moderenising and making those good aspects relevant to evolving world order.

B. Macro level: How do we integrate with the wider world - slightly touched upon in this thread
We need to look at how do we integrate with the wider worldin rapidly urbanizing Jat hinterland and shrinking globalizing world. If we do not moderanize, adopt cosmopolitan and flexible attitude while retaining our customs, we will increasingly find ourselves unable to integrate with other communities and we will become irrelevant compared to newly empowered (via votes, awareness, moderenization) communities. We must adopt pro-change, reformist, brave (to face taboos and dogmas) attitude. Only a handful number of people provide though leadership that leads to significant change e.g. Swami Dayanand Saraswati, Ch Chottu Ram, Ch Chajju Ram (they bravely championed taboo subjects of they era e.g. women's eductation, egalitarian, shun casteism, etc). Do we want to create consensus first (wont work) or do we come up with progressive though leadership first and then act as champions of that progress, however small, even within our immediate area of influence. Many of jats online on this site are role models (of success, progression, mentors to other who wish to make switch from rural to urban life style) to scores of their relatives.
"Should we pretend to conform to bad customs when we go back to our agrarian rural roots (jaisa desh waisa bhesh) or do we have enough courage to start making them aware (in as subtle, culturally sensitive, gradual manner) and use our position as a mentor to drive the change."

C. Micro level - Changes At Individual level - "Me" the Jat as Agent of Change - main focus of most posts thus far
before we start changing otehr aroudn us, we need ot change ourselves, our 'Attitude' or 'JATTitude' first. A positive, progressive, flexible 'JATTitude' whereby we are embarking on contoneous journey of introspection, self analysis and proactively scouring our deepest drakest corners to see what biases and dogmas do we hold and how can we make ourselves more aware (I differentiate academic education from 'awareness'). Many posters have argued, change is constant, change starts from ME, they have provided tips, anecdotes, etc. I Agree with most.

I have tried to provide a overall frame work for discussion and linkages between various categories. Your views. Kimme bawli baat keh di ho toh maafi.

Cheers!
Vishal