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skadian123
April 10th, 2009, 11:01 PM
Through the medium of this thread, I request all fellow Jatlanders to vote for Jat candidates irrespective of their political party affiliation in the forthcoming parliamentary elections.

In fact, all the political parties would in turn, out of political compulsion be forced to field Jat candidates from the constituencies when they know that Jats would only vote for fellow Jat candidates.

Besides voting for Jat candidates, we need to ensure that there is Jat voter turnout to the maximum extent possible.

Let's forget our differences and vote for Jat candidates and stop non-Jat candidates taking advantage of Jat-Jat tussle/differences especially parties like Haryana Janhit Congress and BSP which have explicit/clear anti-Jat agenda.

Hope that Jat candidates are also fielded by all major political parties from Ambala, Karnal, Kurukshetra and other non-Jat majority seats of Haryana in future.

vijay
April 10th, 2009, 11:17 PM
Sunil,

I appreciate your concern about the Jat community. Are you sure that this would help Jat community substantially ? I have some doubts.

If we ( read Jats ) vote for only jat candidates then every party will declare a Jat candidate where Jat Voters are decisive and hence jats votes would be distributed drastically among them. I don't wonder if some Jats would choose to fight from BSP type parties when they fail to get tickets from the major parties.

End of the day, the overall situation likely to remain the same. :)

Paddy
April 11th, 2009, 02:07 AM
Bhai Sunil's advice can be taken on case to case basis. There are areas where only one jat candidate is nominated. The bad part is that many jats don't vote him because he is not from the party, which they are supporting. We (jats) should be united on this issue to prove our power.

skadian123
April 11th, 2009, 09:05 AM
Vijay,

My contention is that compelling parties to field Jat candidates will be a win-win situation for Jats anyways.

When all the parties field Jat candidates, the seat in any case goes to a Jat candidate whichever political outfit he belongs to. So, in case BJP, Congress, BSP, INLD, HJC, etc., all field Jat candidates keeping the sensitivities of Jats in mind, anyone from these above mentioned parties wins is a Jat and the seat remains within the community. It would certainly not be a win-win scenario when the Jat electorate have no choice but to vote for an outsider because no political party would have fielded a Jat candidate.

It is really sad to note that Congress has fielded Mahabal Mishra (an outsider sometimes referred to as Purvanchali) from West Delhi which has a sizeable portion of outer Delhi under it after the post delimitation exercise. We need to make our voice heard and that can only happen when we can ensure that all political parties field only Jat candidates from Jat majority areas, otherwise these political parties will keep doing 'Parvesh Verma' acts in all Jat dominated areas.

Let us as a community be proactive instead of being passive. Nobody can and nobody should take the aspirations of our community for granted. As said earlier, let's make the right noises at the right places and of course at the right time.

mukeshkumar007
April 11th, 2009, 01:08 PM
Totally confused!! Really didn't get what message u ppl are trying to convey through this thread?

vijay
April 11th, 2009, 01:24 PM
Sunil and Pradeep,

I agree with you on the issue of unity among Jats and a collective efforts of using our strength in a specfic way to influence the State or National politics.

I am not a pessimist, but we usually see the at the top political levels Jats hardly think about their community fellows and are more prone to gain political advantages over other jat politicians on their personal agendas. The views about benefitting the community take a back seat and polishing some other people's shoes for personal gains becomes their primary motto.

Anyways, that is my personal opinion and i hope that jat leaders would start thinking about the benefits of the Jat Community.

skdeswal
April 11th, 2009, 01:28 PM
Vote only JAT not only in Haryana Pl in All over the world
Through the medium of this thread, I request all fellow Jatlanders to vote for Jat candidates irrespective of their political party affiliation in the forthcoming parliamentary elections.

In fact, all the political parties would in turn, out of political compulsion be forced to field Jat candidates from the constituencies when they know that Jats would only vote for fellow Jat candidates.

Besides voting for Jat candidates, we need to ensure that there is Jat voter turnout to the maximum extent possible.

Let's forget our differences and vote for Jat candidates and stop non-Jat candidates taking advantage of Jat-Jat tussle/differences especially parties like Haryana Janhit Congress and BSP which have explicit/clear anti-Jat agenda.

Hope that Jat candidates are also fielded by all major political parties from Ambala, Karnal, Kurukshetra and other non-Jat majority seats of Haryana in future.

piush_tomar
April 11th, 2009, 02:43 PM
Friend,

Why should I vote to Jat candidate.Here is a true story of our Lok sabha area- Baghpat.
Now here is the point and proof me wrong:

As many as 56 MPs - among them former prime minister H.D. Deve Gowda,Mr. Ajit Singh(MP Baghpat), actor-politicians Dharmendra and Govinda - did not ask a single question during their five-year term, statistics reveal.The study was conducted by PRS Legislative Research, an independent research initiative, and included both starred and unstarred questions in parliament till December 2008. The 14th Lok Sabha ended last month.
Rashtriya Lok Dal president Ajit Singh had 43 per cent attendance. The vocal advocate of separate 'Harit Pradesh' state, did not ask any question during his term. His protege and RLD MP from Kairana, Anuradha Chaudhary also had a low attendance of 33 per cent.
Mr Ajit Singh did;nt ask any question for the people of baghpat..so why should I vote him.Ajit singh have been enjoying on Jat vote since last 20-30 years and did nothing.
would he not able to ask question in Parliament on given issues:

1)Were there no farmersí interest issues to be raised in parliament?
2)Were there no unemployment issues of the area to be raised in the parliament?
3)Were there no development issues relating to industrialization of area to be raised in parliament?
4)Were there no infrastruture issues as roads, power, irrigation, railways etc. to be raised in parliament?

Because of Mr. Ajit Singh our Baghpat Jat community unfamiliar about whats going on in the other part of india.Situation is like "Ke HUM ky akarey ..hamra to rakhwala sirf yahi hey jo Jaton ke barey mein sochta hey" but story is some thing different and people are not aware of it.They are grab in JAAL. How many of people are aware of above data as I mentioned. This is all available on Parliament website. Nobody knows it. He bought the press here. Top goons are his friend.
He can change alliance from one party to another but we will not change our candidate. You have seen all those news in media. But We Jat community specially from Baghpat will kill our present , future but will vote him only coz HE IS A JAT..

trueblueindian
April 11th, 2009, 04:47 PM
Rashtriya Lok Dal president Ajit Singh had 43 per cent attendance. The vocal advocate of separate 'Harit Pradesh' state, did not ask any question during his term. His protege and RLD MP from Kairana, Anuradha Chaudhary also had a low attendance of 33 per cent.
Mr Ajit Singh did;nt ask any question for the people of baghpat..so why should I vote him.Ajit singh have been enjoying on Jat vote since last 20-30 years and did nothing.
would he not able to ask question in Parliament on given issues:

1)Were there no farmersí interest issues to be raised in parliament?
2)Were there no unemployment issues of the area to be raised in the parliament?
3)Were there no development issues relating to industrialization of area to be raised in parliament?
4)Were there no infrastruture issues as roads, power, irrigation, railways etc. to be raised in parliament?

.

donnoua ka katthhey rehevan ka interest khatam hovega tae kimmey pardesh arr jattan ka bhi bhala hovan ki ummid sei apar you interest khatam hove konya

----------

back to topic from the reasoning expressed by some members above it seems that voting for a JAT candidate makes best sense

rameshlakra
April 11th, 2009, 05:17 PM
I think a candidate's performance and credential are most important and he should be voted irrespective of the party he belongs to. Blanket vote for someone being jat will probably do more harm to the society then any good. A Muslim candidate who does maximum for his community and something for other is even better than a Jat who does nothing for all. Corruption free and competency level should be rewarded irrespective of caste, religion and party.

Regards,

dkumars
April 11th, 2009, 05:50 PM
I think a candidate's performance and credential are most important and he should be voted irrespective of the party he belongs to. Blanket vote for someone being jat will probably do more harm to the society then any good. A Muslim candidate who does maximum for his community and something for other is even better than a Jat who does nothing for all. Corruption free and competency level should be rewarded irrespective of caste, religion and party.

Regards,
:rock:rock:rock:rock:rock:rock:rock:rock:rock:rock

skadian123
April 11th, 2009, 10:02 PM
Thanks all for putting in your valuable views and opinions on this thread.

It seems that we have digressed a bit from the topic and the content contained therein. There are two separate issues which it seems have got mixed up here in some of the replies.

First, Jat candidates need to be fielded by all the political parties especially in Jat majority seats keeping in mind the sensitivities of Jat community.

Second, the electorate would still have choice of choosing a candidate based on his qualifications/experience/ideology and the policies/promises of his party. The only difference would be that instead of having to chose from amongst non-Jat candidates, the electorate would still have the choice of choosing but from amongst suitable Jat candidates.

By stating that fielding of only Jat candidates would not be interest of the community, do we mean to imply that a) there are no suitable Jat candidates or b) there is non-availability of sufficient number of suitably qualified/experienced Jat candidates or c) that Jats are so incapable that they need people from outside to come and stand up in elections in Jat majority areas.

To return to the issue raised by Piyush Tomar, I unequivocally appreciate the concern put forward by him pertaining to the non-performance and subsequent non-fulfillment of the local population's aspirations by the elected representative. In this context, I ask the question again, Are Jats so incapable that they don't have suitable leaders/candidates to officially manage the affairs of their own community. Not voting is in no way a solution. In case the people are not satisfied with Ch. Ajit Singh, why not the other political parties field more suitable Jat candidates as an alternative? Would having a Non-Jat representative in place of Ch. Ajit Singh be a solution to the problem?

I again take the example of Yadavs here. They are one community who make it a point to vote en masse for the Yadav candidates irrespective of the political party. Same is the case for other communities. Why can't we as a community compel major political parties to field only SUITABLE but JAT candidates and then choose from amongst those candidates instead of inviting outsiders lest we undoubtedly have NO faith at all in the capabilities of fellow Jats.

A community which does not respect itself and has no faith in its capabilities cannot and should not expect much from others...

jitender_singh
April 12th, 2009, 08:27 PM
Same is the case with gujjar community...
faridabad se 2-3 gujjar khade hain election main par vote saare avtar bhadana ko hi padenge..
karan dalal ne bhi koshish ki teh ticket lene ki..
hooda ne uska patta katwa diya.. same case virender singh ka raha sonipat se..


Thanks all for putting in your valuable views and opinions on this thread.

It seems that we have digressed a bit from the topic and the content contained therein. There are two separate issues which it seems have got mixed up here in some of the replies.

First, Jat candidates need to be fielded by all the political parties especially in Jat majority seats keeping in mind the sensitivities of Jat community.

Second, the electorate would still have choice of choosing a candidate based on his qualifications/experience/ideology and the policies/promises of his party. The only difference would be that instead of having to chose from amongst non-Jat candidates, the electorate would still have the choice of choosing but from amongst suitable Jat candidates.

By stating that fielding of only Jat candidates would not be interest of the community, do we mean to imply that a) there are no suitable Jat candidates or b) there is non-availability of sufficient number of suitably qualified/experienced Jat candidates or c) that Jats are so incapable that they need people from outside to come and stand up in elections in Jat majority areas.

To return to the issue raised by Piyush Tomar, I unequivocally appreciate the concern put forward by him pertaining to the non-performance and subsequent non-fulfillment of the local population's aspirations by the elected representative. In this context, I ask the question again, Are Jats so incapable that they don't have suitable leaders/candidates to officially manage the affairs of their own community. Not voting is in no way a solution. In case the people are not satisfied with Ch. Ajit Singh, why not the other political parties field more suitable Jat candidates as an alternative? Would having a Non-Jat representative in place of Ch. Ajit Singh be a solution to the problem?

I again take the example of Yadavs here. They are one community who make it a point to vote en masse for the Yadav candidates irrespective of the political party. Same is the case for other communities. Why can't we as a community compel major political parties to field only SUITABLE but JAT candidates and then choose from amongst those candidates instead of inviting outsiders lest we undoubtedly have NO faith at all in the capabilities of fellow Jats.

A community which does not respect itself and has no faith in its capabilities cannot and should not expect much from others...

anilsangwan
April 13th, 2009, 12:22 PM
Theek topic uthaaya..... in Rohtak, there are all Jat candidates fighting from INLD, HJC and Congress.. ..... ek ek aadmi ki 3-3 vote bannwaa dyo.... ek Bhai Nafe Singh ki.... ek Dipender ki ...er Ek Krishan Moorti Hooda ki.... :)

trueblueindian
April 13th, 2009, 12:55 PM
I think a candidate's performance and credential are most important and he should be voted irrespective of the party he belongs to. Blanket vote for someone being jat will probably do more harm to the society then any good. A Muslim candidate who does maximum for his community and something for other is even better than a Jat who does nothing for all. Corruption free and competency level should be rewarded irrespective of caste, religion and party.

Regards,

ramesh in an ideal enviornment you seem to be quite correct, where the performance and image of candidate has to be the yard stick, but sadly lets accept the fact that the kind of political standards we are facing today, if we look around politics is more of a profession then serving and in that case why shall we not give an opportunity to our own people, that is my point of view on this

jeetvikram
April 13th, 2009, 08:08 PM
hi to all jaats and jaatnis
plsleave all ur work and dp vote for any jaat standing in these elections irrespective of their patries thy stand frm, u see only whn we have reprents, in the high house caqn thy say wht we want and what our comunity wants if we just keep fighting among ourselves others will always rule us, wake up and grap this oppurtunint and see wht the whole comm has done has for mayawati she rules up for the forth tme and the are all dreaming to see her in 7 racecourse road, THE PM OF INDIA..............

prashantacmet
April 14th, 2009, 01:03 PM
Friend,

Why should I vote to Jat candidate.Here is a true story of our Lok sabha area- Baghpat.
Now here is the point and proof me wrong:

As many as 56 MPs - among them former prime minister H.D. Deve Gowda,Mr. Ajit Singh(MP Baghpat), actor-politicians Dharmendra and Govinda - did not ask a single question during their five-year term, statistics reveal.The study was conducted by PRS Legislative Research, an independent research initiative, and included both starred and unstarred questions in parliament till December 2008. The 14th Lok Sabha ended last month.
Rashtriya Lok Dal president Ajit Singh had 43 per cent attendance. The vocal advocate of separate 'Harit Pradesh' state, did not ask any question during his term. His protege and RLD MP from Kairana, Anuradha Chaudhary also had a low attendance of 33 per cent.
Mr Ajit Singh did;nt ask any question for the people of baghpat..so why should I vote him.Ajit singh have been enjoying on Jat vote since last 20-30 years and did nothing.
would he not able to ask question in Parliament on given issues:

1)Were there no farmersí interest issues to be raised in parliament?
2)Were there no unemployment issues of the area to be raised in the parliament?
3)Were there no development issues relating to industrialization of area to be raised in parliament?
4)Were there no infrastruture issues as roads, power, irrigation, railways etc. to be raised in parliament?

Because of Mr. Ajit Singh our Baghpat Jat community unfamiliar about whats going on in the other part of india.Situation is like "Ke HUM ky akarey ..hamra to rakhwala sirf yahi hey jo Jaton ke barey mein sochta hey" but story is some thing different and people are not aware of it.They are grab in JAAL. How many of people are aware of above data as I mentioned. This is all available on Parliament website. Nobody knows it. He bought the press here. Top goons are his friend.
He can change alliance from one party to another but we will not change our candidate. You have seen all those news in media. But We Jat community specially from Baghpat will kill our present , future but will vote him only coz HE IS A JAT..


Hmmm... I know once u ppl voted for Somval shastri:rolleyes:...and u ppl got all the recognition, respects, development and probabaly he also flooded the parliament with his questions...hain na piyush bhai;)...BTW , this time your "sompal" has moved on to congress.......are u not with him in the election campaign!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

brahmtewatia
April 14th, 2009, 03:54 PM
let me call the coterie of our current day politicians as "चोरों की जमात". in fact coterie may not be the proper word as it represents only a small fraction of people... anyways, if i have to chose my candidate from this "चोरों की जमात" i wud go all out for a JAT candidate.

i concur with mr. sunil kadian on condition, as specified above. let the "win-win" situation prevail... beda garak to hindustaan ka hona hi hai. ;)


Through the medium of this thread, I request all fellow Jatlanders to vote for Jat candidates irrespective of their political party affiliation in the forthcoming parliamentary elections.


My contention is that compelling parties to field Jat candidates will be a win-win situation for Jats anyways.

piush_tomar
April 14th, 2009, 04:30 PM
Hmmm... I know once u ppl voted for Somval shastri:rolleyes:...and u ppl got all the recognition, respects, development and probabaly he also flooded the parliament with his questions...hain na piyush bhai;)...BTW , this time your "sompal" has moved on to congress.......are u not with him in the election campaign!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Prashant,

Dont you know sompal shastri who gave "Kisan Credit card" and a Agriculture university in Meerut when he defeated This Big ASSS..if u are from Baghpat than tell me what he did for Baghpat...Not asking a single question in Lok sabha on any issue related with Baghpat people, is nothing for you..but ask the person who is not having job,agriculture but vote this ASS just coz of Jat pride..Sompal is not Jat?

deep123
April 14th, 2009, 05:41 PM
Bhai Candidate ko dekho ... if the candidate is good than Vote for him otherwise there is not point voting a JAT if he is useless like AJEET Singh.

anilsangwan
April 14th, 2009, 05:54 PM
Absolutely bro. I concur with you,.... They rock !!


Bhai Candidate ko dekho ... if the candidate is good than Vote for him otherwise there is not point voting a JAT if he is useless like AJEET Singh.

kapdal
April 14th, 2009, 06:06 PM
Voting just for a Jat irrespective of his intention/antecedents is a great idea. But I have an even better idea. Let's go the full hog. Let's secede from India and create a new country called Jatistan or Jatbhoomi or something like that. It would be a homeland for Jats. All elected representatives would be Jats as all candidates would be Jats! Won't it be just awesome!! All our problems would just vanish immediately! Obviously we'd have some minorities for diversity's sake but more importantly to do stuff that we don't want to do like picking our garbage (and let's just give these unworthy souls a couple of seats obviously nominated by the JAT PM/President just to show the world that we are fair). Rest we can do everything on our own.

Yeah yeah, I know it is not an original idea. Before anyone calls me copy-cat, let me acknowledge that the above awesome idea is inspired by the highly successful Islamic Republic of Pakistan. But what the heck, let's go for it!

cooljat
April 14th, 2009, 10:31 PM
Bhai Baat mein Namak hai teri !! ;) lekin bhai yahan likhne aur kursi pe bethe rehne se KRANTI nahi aati ! :rolleyes:

Be Rebelic ... aur Aag laga do jo bhi beech mein aaye ! :D


Voting just for a Jat irrespective of his intention/antecedents is a great idea. But I have an even better idea. Let's go the full hog. Let's secede from India and create a new country called Jatistan or Jatbhoomi or something like that. It would be a homeland for Jats. All elected representatives would be Jats as all candidates would be Jats! Won't it be just awesome!! All our problems would just vanish immediately! Obviously we'd have some minorities for diversity's sake but more importantly to do stuff that we don't want to do like picking our garbage (and let's just give these unworthy souls a couple of seats obviously nominated by the JAT PM/President just to show the world that we are fair). Rest we can do everything on our own.

Yeah yeah, I know it is not an original idea. Before anyone calls me copy-cat, let me acknowledge that the above awesome idea is inspired by the highly successful Islamic Republic of Pakistan. But what the heck, let's go for it!

bishanleo2001
April 15th, 2009, 08:37 AM
But bhaisahb there is a old saying " that you should keep all the bad people at same place and let the good people to spread all over the world ,so that bad people would'nt able to spread their bad habits to other but the good people can spread their good habits to all over the world, so that they can make world a better place to live"
so now in which category we all Jat people are gonna be :confused:


But I have an even better idea. Let's go the full hog. Let's secede from India and create a new country called Jatistan or Jatbhoomi or something like that. It would be a homeland for Jats. All elected representatives would be Jats as all candidates would be Jats! Won't it be just awesome!!
Yeah yeah, I know it is not an original idea. Before anyone calls me copy-cat, let me acknowledge that the above awesome idea is inspired by the highly successful Islamic Republic of Pakistan. But what the heck, let's go for it!

But I guess thats not a bad idea though, aur aapke "Jatistan" ke liye jagah bhee Kasmir main dilwa denge,apas main roj rolla hote hee roj pakistan main jhanda uthaye bade rehnge (Ladai apni hogi pitega padoshi)

Bhaisahb hum jaato ne aise hee pade rehn do, hamari waise hee sidhi shadhi maullad kaum hai, ek be agar aapne Jatistan banwa bhee diya te ye crooked poltician ude bhee Gauthras(Gaut) ke hisab se reservation managn lagenge, err pher to minority bhee chaudhary chamar n chaudhary bhangi howegi

kam te kam abb sukhi chaudhary kee dhonns main tame to kaat rahe hain, kyun iss chaudhrahat kee bhee maati pitwao ho

Nishantrathi82
April 15th, 2009, 09:30 AM
Guys i don't know whether i m correct or not but yesterday i was watching NDTV and they were showing that Mayawati is going to win 41 seats in UP if that will happen itss going to be difficult to keep her away from PM seat. So pls pls guys cast ur vote and it should be against her.

spsu
April 15th, 2009, 11:11 AM
i agree with piush & we should further strengthen with root cause Jat means jattha " we are the son & daughter who have broken all dogma at the time when nobody dare & all cast revolutionary join that jattha & called jats so, we need not confined our self with confined sentiments we should bote to the right people like us he may or may not have level of jat but he is really a jat by karma.


Friend,

Why should I vote to Jat candidate.Here is a true story of our Lok sabha area- Baghpat.
Now here is the point and proof me wrong:

As many as 56 MPs - among them former prime minister H.D. Deve Gowda,Mr. Ajit Singh(MP Baghpat), actor-politicians Dharmendra and Govinda - did not ask a single question during their five-year term, statistics reveal.The study was conducted by PRS Legislative Research, an independent research initiative, and included both starred and unstarred questions in parliament till December 2008. The 14th Lok Sabha ended last month.
Rashtriya Lok Dal president Ajit Singh had 43 per cent attendance. The vocal advocate of separate 'Harit Pradesh' state, did not ask any question during his term. His protege and RLD MP from Kairana, Anuradha Chaudhary also had a low attendance of 33 per cent.
Mr Ajit Singh did;nt ask any question for the people of baghpat..so why should I vote him.Ajit singh have been enjoying on Jat vote since last 20-30 years and did nothing.
would he not able to ask question in Parliament on given issues:

1)Were there no farmersí interest issues to be raised in parliament?
2)Were there no unemployment issues of the area to be raised in the parliament?
3)Were there no development issues relating to industrialization of area to be raised in parliament?
4)Were there no infrastruture issues as roads, power, irrigation, railways etc. to be raised in parliament?

Because of Mr. Ajit Singh our Baghpat Jat community unfamiliar about whats going on in the other part of india.Situation is like "Ke HUM ky akarey ..hamra to rakhwala sirf yahi hey jo Jaton ke barey mein sochta hey" but story is some thing different and people are not aware of it.They are grab in JAAL. How many of people are aware of above data as I mentioned. This is all available on Parliament website. Nobody knows it. He bought the press here. Top goons are his friend.
He can change alliance from one party to another but we will not change our candidate. You have seen all those news in media. But We Jat community specially from Baghpat will kill our present , future but will vote him only coz HE IS A JAT..

brahmtewatia
April 15th, 2009, 12:44 PM
Let's secede from India and create a new country called Jatistan or Jatbhoomi or something like that. It would be a homeland for Jats. All elected representatives would be Jats as all candidates would be Jats! Won't it be just awesome!! All our problems would just vanish immediately! Obviously we'd have some minorities for diversity's sake but more importantly to do stuff that we don't want to do like picking our garbage (and let's just give these unworthy souls a couple of seats obviously nominated by the JAT PM/President just to show the world that we are fair). Rest we can do everything on our own.

we'll hire work force frm neighboring चमार'istaan and/or दलित'istaan. let जाट'istaan be only for JAT's. i'll issue easy J1/J2/J3 visas nd mayawati will be given honorary PR (permanent residence) status. :D;):D

kapdal
April 15th, 2009, 04:21 PM
we'll hire work force frm neighboring चमार'istaan and/or दलित'istaan. let जाट'istaan be only for JAT's. i'll issue easy J1/J2/J3 visas nd mayawati will be given honorary PR (permanent residence) status. :D;):D

Given the high profile and high paying nature of the sh*t cleaning job, I am sure you'd attract a lot of talent from the neighbouring countries. But we need to think this through- after all this is a dream project. What all would be acceptable- bihari labour for farmlands, lalas for shops, etc. etc.? We don't want too many of these people- otherwise they will start demanding more rights.

kapdal
April 15th, 2009, 04:23 PM
Bhaisahb hum jaato ne aise hee pade rehn do, hamari waise hee sidhi shadhi maullad kaum hai, ek be agar aapne Jatistan banwa bhee diya te ye crooked poltician ude bhee Gauthras(Gaut) ke hisab se reservation managn lagenge, err pher to minority bhee chaudhary chamar n chaudhary bhangi howegi



Bishan bhai, don't take everything at face value. Zara bhawnaon ko bhi samjho....:)

brahmtewatia
April 15th, 2009, 04:31 PM
Given the high profile and high paying nature of the sh*t cleaning job, I am sure you'd attract a lot of talent from the neighbouring countries. But we need to think this through- after all this is a dream project. What all would be acceptable- bihari labour for farmlands, lalas for shops, etc. etc.? We don't want too many of these people- otherwise they will start demanding more rights.

kapil, if i'm not wrong, more than 90% of expats are involved in various emirates (especially dubai) doing every shyt jobs. i n'vr heard anyone crying for their rights... nd as far as hi profile nd paying nature of the shyt cleaning job is concerned it all depends on mayawati as to how she'll shape up दलित'istaan. :D

btw kapil, you are forgetting my stance on the thread, pls hav a look again ;):) aap bhi bhaisahab, bhavnaaon ko samjho :D

let me call the coterie of our current day politicians as "चोरों की जमात". in fact coterie may not be the proper word as it represents only a small fraction of people... anyways, if i have to chose my candidate from this "चोरों की जमात" i wud go all out for a JAT candidate.

i concur with mr. sunil kadian on condition, as specified above. let the "win-win" situation prevail... beda garak to hindustaan ka hona hi hai. ;)

kapdal
April 15th, 2009, 05:59 PM
kapil, if i'm not wrong, more than 90% of expats are involved in various emirates (especially dubai) doing every shyt jobs. i n'vr heard anyone crying for their rights... nd as far as hi profile nd paying nature of the shyt cleaning job is concerned it all depends on mayawati as to how she'll shape up दलित'istaan. :D

btw kapil, you are forgetting my stance on the thread, pls hav a look again ;):) aap bhi bhaisahab, bhavnaaon ko samjho :D


I had read your stance, but didn't understand it. I'd like to think that we are on the same page, but I am not 100% sure...:). Given the confusion that has been created, let me clarify my stand. I was being sarcastic (I thought it was obvious but reading Bishan bhai's reply it was not).

I don't think voting for Jat candidates irrespective of looking at their antecedents/intentions is the right thing to do. Caste based politics is a sad reality. And we are all affected by it as well as a part of it, more or less. Contrary to popular thinking, I don't think it is because of illiteracy. Lack of education is surely a catalyst, but not the "determining" reason. I have seen caste factors at play in student politics even at IITs/IIMs which are supposedly the beacons of education.

Anyways, as much as I understand that it is a reality, I think it is still ridiculous to blindly vote for Jat candidates. Idealistically, we should vote for the best (or the least worse) candidate. If someone is honest and works for development and welfare, you'd automatically benefit. But let's leave ideals out for a while and get selfish for a second. Still, blindly voting for a Jat candidate won't make sense. I'll give a small example. Let's say I live in a colony with 40% Brahmins and 10% Jats. There are 10 such colonies in the constituency. Some of them are Jat majority. The Brahmin candidate comes to my colony and says that you guys vote for me, I'll make sure you get road, electricity and water supply. The Jat candidate doesn't bother and makes similar promises in Jat majority areas. Now, I might vote for him, but would he care 2 hoots about my colony if elected? The example can be extended on bigger scales. Now before anyone with "holier than thou" approach gets agitated about my selfish approach, let me agree that it is a narrow minded way of looking at it. But that's THE point. Caste politics is all about narrow-mindedness and looking at your self-interest and this strategy fails even there. The "blind voting for Jat candidates" strategy fails in these two extreme and offsetting cases- the selfish approach as well as the idealistic approach. So what's the point?

Let me also look at another approach used by the supporters of this strategy- "Jaton ka patan ho raha hai. Our political power is on decline, etc. etc. Hence we must unite even if the candidate in question is a known thug.". I think that is utter nonsense. This approach is used by all politicians and especially those who have no other qualities to show for to create a fear psychosis in the minds of various communities to create vote banks. The pitfalls of falling for this kind of politics are plainly obvious. No work gets done. Or it gets done when money changes hands. Yes, some more Jat boys get preference during police recruitment. Then, they harass the "aam junta" to recover the money they paid to get the job. The "aam junta" includes Jats as well. So everyone is worse off: lose-lose approach. Politicians with similar approach get alternating shots at power. People get frustrated with one and choose another one with the same approach. And then we complain that there are no good candidates, politicians are corrupt, etc. etc.

cooljat
April 15th, 2009, 06:34 PM
Thumbs up, 3 Cheers n Salutations to you Bro for sucha sane n sensible reply. Couldn't agree more with your rational n pragmatic viewpoint here, couldn't agree more seriously !

I hope this post enlightens the misguided literate illiterate janta of India n I wish they elect the suitable govt. Amen !


Rock on
Jit




I don't think voting for Jat candidates irrespective of looking at their antecedents/intentions is the right thing to do. Caste based politics is a sad reality. And we are all affected by it as well as a part of it, more or less. Contrary to popular thinking, I don't think it is because of illiteracy. Lack of education is surely a catalyst, but not the "determining" reason. I have seen caste factors at play in student politics even at IITs/IIMs which are supposedly the beacons of education.

Anyways, as much as I understand that it is a reality, I think it is still ridiculous to blindly vote for Jat candidates. Idealistically, we should vote for the best (or the least worse) candidate. If someone is honest and works for development and welfare, you'd automatically benefit. But let's leave ideals out for a while and get selfish for a second. Still, blindly voting for a Jat candidate won't make sense. I'll give a small example. Let's say I live in a colony with 40% Brahmins and 10% Jats. There are 10 such colonies in the constituency. Some of them are Jat majority. The Brahmin candidate comes to my colony and says that you guys vote for me, I'll make sure you get road, electricity and water supply. The Jat candidate doesn't bother and makes similar promises in Jat majority areas. Now, I might vote for him, but would he care 2 hoots about my colony if elected? The example can be extended on bigger scales. Now before anyone with "holier than thou" approach gets agitated about my selfish approach, let me agree that it is a narrow minded way of looking at it. But that's THE point. Caste politics is all about narrow-mindedness and looking at your self-interest and this strategy fails even there. The "blind voting for Jat candidates" strategy fails in these two extreme and offsetting cases- the selfish approach as well as the idealistic approach. So what's the point?

Let me also look at another approach used by the supporters of this strategy- "Jaton ka patan ho raha hai. Our political power is on decline, etc. etc. Hence we must unite even if the candidate in question is a known thug.". I think that is utter nonsense. This approach is used by all politicians and especially those who have no other qualities to show for to create a fear psychosis in the minds of various communities to create vote banks. The pitfalls of falling for this kind of politics are plainly obvious. No work gets done. Or it gets done when money changes hands. Yes, some more Jat boys get preference during police recruitment. Then, they harass the "aam junta" to recover the money they paid to get the job. The "aam junta" includes Jats as well. So everyone is worse off: lose-lose approach. Politicians with similar approach get alternating shots at power. People get frustrated with one and choose another one with the same approach. And then we complain that there are no good candidates, politicians are corrupt, etc. etc.

brahmtewatia
April 15th, 2009, 06:42 PM
I had read your stance, but didn't understand it. I'd like to think that we are on the same page, but I am not 100% sure...:). Given the confusion that has been created, let me clarify my stand. I was being sarcastic (I thought it was obvious but reading Bishan bhai's reply it was not).

ahahaha kapil... aap bhi na bhavnaao ke saath khilwaad kar rahe ho. :D i've been sarcastic right frm the word go. hwever, i got a bit serious on one of yr post, wch carried no smileys... forcing me to think tht you too are getting serious. :)

aur rahi baat bishan bhai ki to bhai maine to bishan bhai se do haath pehle hi doosre thread par jod liye the. he also took my sarcasm vry seriously on that thread... nd here again he took yr post very seriously. though i appreciate tht he gave a very nice explanation. :)

skadian123
April 15th, 2009, 07:48 PM
During the series of replies and further replies, it seems we have lost track of the central theme and that is:

VOTE FOR FELLOW JAT CANDIDATES IRRESPECTIVE OF THE POLITICAL PARTIES (BUT NOT IRRESPECTIVE OF ANTECENDENTS/INTENTIONS)

Some of the fellow members have taken great pains in explaining that voting for Jat candidates is a lose-lose situation. I still have not received replies to the questions raised by me earlier and which are restated as follows:

a) Do Jats have no suitable candidates to have them as their elected representatives?
b) Do Jats not have sufficient number of suitable candidates?
c) Why cannot we have the best of the lot JAT candidates stand up for their community and the only choice to be made should be from amongst the best Jat contestants.
d) Are Jats so incompetent/incapable that they need people from outside to stand up for them and their rights?

If thinking about your community and its interests is a sign of narrow mindedness, then I and you should not be members of this website, rather it would be better if we are members of some NATIONAL INTEGRATION website. We are proud to be Indians, but at the same time we care for our community which again consists of proud Indians.

It would be much appreciated if we do not quote things out of context and contribute productively to the central theme of the thread.

kapdal
April 16th, 2009, 01:11 AM
During the series of replies and further replies, it seems we have lost track of the central theme and that is:

VOTE FOR FELLOW JAT CANDIDATES IRRESPECTIVE OF THE POLITICAL PARTIES (BUT NOT IRRESPECTIVE OF ANTECENDENTS/INTENTIONS)

Some of the fellow members have taken great pains in explaining that voting for Jat candidates is a lose-lose situation. I still have not received replies to the questions raised by me earlier and which are restated as follows:

a) Do Jats have no suitable candidates to have them as their elected representatives?
b) Do Jats not have sufficient number of suitable candidates?
c) Why cannot we have the best of the lot JAT candidates stand up for their community and the only choice to be made should be from amongst the best Jat contestants.
d) Are Jats so incompetent/incapable that they need people from outside to stand up for them and their rights?

If thinking about your community and its interests is a sign of narrow mindedness, then I and you should not be members of this website, rather it would be better if we are members of some NATIONAL INTEGRATION website. We are proud to be Indians, but at the same time we care for our community which again consists of proud Indians.

It would be much appreciated if we do not quote things out of context and contribute productively to the central theme of the thread.

Sunil,

First things first. It is good to know that you were not asking to vote for Jat candidates irrespective of antecedents/intentions. I agree that you never said that. But you had also not put a qualifier that the candidate in question should have some basic minimum qualities. The spirit of the post appeared to be asking Jats to vote just on the basis of caste and nothing else. This is what I don't agree with. Nevertheless, if you are not arguing about that, it is all for better.

Having said that, I would still argue against most of what you are saying. The four rhetorical questions you have posed seem to give an impression that there are some places where ONLY Jats are there and outsiders are being forced on them. It is plain obvious that that is factually incorrect. India doesn't have a system of communal electorates where each community elects its representatives. So the question whether Jats have no suitable candidates to have as their elected representatives is wrong in itself. When I vote, I vote to elect an Outer Delhi Rep. to the Indian parliment. And not some local Jat rep. to a Jat parliament. Jats are not living in isolation. You gave examples of South Delhi and West Delhi initially. Jats are only one of the various dominant forces there and not the only factor. Plus, it is not as if that the problems I face as a West Delhi voter are different from those faced by my Yadav neighbour next door. If he is going to vote for only a Yadav irrespective of anything else, then he is an idiot. I don't want to follow his example and make the situation worse. Finally and most importantly (since you stressed on irrespective of party factor), these are national elections and so you have to take that into account. If you think that one govt. was an absolute failure and made India absolutely worse off, then what sense is there in voting for the same party just because its candidate was a Jat? You are voting to elect a government in which you have no trust- that is like conning yourself.

As far as I am concerned, these questions are a symbol of an "US" vs. "THEM" ideology, that is not only needless but also counter-productive. I am sorry if my sarcastic take on Jatistan hurt you, but to be honest I meant it. That is where this ideology ends. And one Pakistan is enough evidence of the utter failure of this approach. Working for your community's interests is definitely NOT a sign of narrow-mindedness. But I don't know how voting for your caste irrespective of other factors helps anyone apart from the guy you are voting for. And I am sure I don't need to tell you that there are hundreds of other ways of helping the community. Moreover, someone who works for the community doesn't even have to go and ask for its vote on the basis of caste, he gets not only his community's votes but others' as well because of the good image created by his good work- case in point, Tau Devi Lal.

To end it, I'd request you also not to mis-quote. I don't think anyone here has said that voting for a Jat is a lose-lose scenario. I think all of us here including myself would be naturally inclined to vote for a good Jat candidate (even if someone else is better). The problem is with voting for a bad one.

skadian123
April 16th, 2009, 03:47 PM
Karan,

I would not like to get into a duel with you here because unlike a few people here, that certainly is not the reason for me to be member of Jatland.

The cetral theme of this thread, to reiterate, is that keeping the sensitivities of the Jat electorate, all major political parties should field Competent (which was implied in the initial/previous posts and was not taken note of) Jat candidates from Jat majority areas and that we get to chose the most competent leader from amongst all the Jat candidates.

I have full faith in my community and the competencies/capabilities of its members and based on that, I will vote for Jat candidates. In case it is felt by some that being overly cosmopolitan means by voting for outsiders over Jats would solve their problems, they should go ahead and do that.

The questions raised by me are in fact tough questions put forward to all the pro-cosmopolitans. In case replies are not available for them, they better be left unanswered instead of calling these questions rhetorical.

There is in fact no law so far which reserves certain seats for Jat candidates. The thread by no means seeks any official reservation for Jats, rather touches upon the idea of the parties pro-actively fielding suitable Jat candidates. All the ideas of being an overly cosmopolitan state/region sound good on paper and may be good, but certainly not for my community which has been over the years, losing its ground.

Safeguarding the interests of your community does not in any way mean fighting with other communities as thought by some. You can be a good citizen by pro-actively playing a constructive role in the upliftment of your community as well as your nation.

kapdal
April 16th, 2009, 04:59 PM
Karan,

I would not like to get into a duel with you here because unlike a few people here, that certainly is not the reason for me to be member of Jatland.

The cetral theme of this thread, to reiterate, is that keeping the sensitivities of the Jat electorate, all major political parties should field Competent (which was implied in the initial/previous posts and was not taken note of) Jat candidates from Jat majority areas and that we get to chose the most competent leader from amongst all the Jat candidates.

I have full faith in my community and the competencies/capabilities of its members and based on that, I will vote for Jat candidates. In case it is felt by some that being overly cosmopolitan means by voting for outsiders over Jats would solve their problems, they should go ahead and do that.

The questions raised by me are in fact tough questions put forward to all the pro-cosmopolitans. In case replies are not available for them, they better be left unanswered instead of calling these questions rhetorical.

There is in fact no law so far which reserves certain seats for Jat candidates. The thread by no means seeks any official reservation for Jats, rather touches upon the idea of the parties pro-actively fielding suitable Jat candidates. All the ideas of being an overly cosmopolitan state/region sound good on paper and may be good, but certainly not for my community which has been over the years, losing its ground.

Safeguarding the interests of your community does not in any way mean fighting with other communities as thought by some. You can be a good citizen by pro-actively playing a constructive role in the upliftment of your community as well as your nation.

Sunil,

Sorry to say but I don't think you had paid attention to what was being written. First of all, you even got my name wrong. It is Kapil and not Karan. Rest of your post seems to be a rather feeble attempt at taking potshots (I wonder why). What makes you think I am here to indulge in a duel with you or anyone else? You think what you wrote is in the interests of the community. I don't think so. Atleast have a heart for a difference of opinion.

And I actually answered the questions posed by you. Instead of looking at the replies, you are trying to brand me as a pro-cosmopolitan! I don't even know whether to feel offended as I am not sure what you meant by it :)!! What did I say on any of my posts that has anything to do with cosmopolity (not sure if that is a word)!? Sorry to say, but I find it a very ridiculous way of debating- to ignore the points raised by someone and play to the gallery by making some pointless personal remark. You have not looked into any of the arguments given by me (lack of majority of Jats in West/South Delhi, question of national political context, "US" vs "Them". etc. etc.). Not sure why you devoted one para on clarifying that you are not seeking reservation of seats for Jat candidates- I know you are not. I think you confused it with my comments on communal electorates. To clarify, communal electorates are different from reservations. In communal electorates, all the seats are divided between various communities. And then only the members of those communities vote to select their own representatives. This is different from reservation, where only the candidates have to be from a particular community, but the electorate includes everybody. The reason for mentioning communal electorate was elaborated in the previous post- when you ask "Do Jats have no suitable candidates to have them as their elected representatives?", it is akin to communal electorate, as it assumes Jats are electing their own representatives. While actually everyone in that constituency is electing a representative, many of who happen to be Jats just as many are dalits, yadavs, brahmins, etc.

Why you continue to misrepresent the opposite side of the debate (despite my request in the last post) is beyond me. What makes you think that I am arguing to vote for outsiders above Jats with nothing to that effect said by me, is beyond me. On the contrary, I actually said this in my last post: "I think all of us here including myself would be naturally inclined to vote for a good Jat candidate (even if someone else is better). The problem is with voting for a bad one."

Finally, I think you have qualified your post significantly so much so that I don't see much wrong with the content part of the last post (I am of course ignoring the nonsensical rhetorical statements on cosmopolity, safeguarding the interests, blah blah). I think this was quite reasonable from you: "all major political parties should field Competent (which was implied in the initial/previous posts and was not taken note of) Jat candidates from Jat majority areas and that we get to chose the most competent leader from amongst all the Jat candidates." I would be surprised if this is not happening already. Do you have any examples where this is not happening- please give the % of Jats and other communities with source. You mentioned West Delhi earlier- Far from majority, Jats there are 8.57% only, less than each of Sikhs, Punjabis, Brahmins and OBCs. Source:
http://epaper.timesofindia.com/Default/Scripting/ArticleWin.asp?From=Archive&Source=Page&Skin=TOI&BaseHref=CAP/2009/03/06&PageLabel=4&EntityId=Ar00400&ViewMode=HTML&GZ=T

Rest, no hard feelings...over and out...:)

skadian123
April 16th, 2009, 05:36 PM
Kapil,

In case you also agree with the point "all major political parties should field Competent Jat candidates from Jat majority areas and that we get to chose the most competent leader from amongst all the Jat candidates.", I see no point in continuing with this ping pong happening back and forth which I actually don't believe in. I have never believed in taking potshots at anyone in any of my posts unlike others who are too brazenly direct and at times even use satire to put across their views. I never call any part of anyone's post as rhetoric or non-sensical and would not do so even in future despite the kind of replies as evidently received in response to this thread because that would very much defeat the purpose of constructive discussion/deliberation.

Being cosmopolitan is certainly not an abuse or does not show anyone in wrong light. It signifies that cross section of the society which would like to have a heterogenous mix of castes, linguists, races, etc., in a given area. We cannot officially bar people from outside Haryana for example from entering Haryana, however we can pro-actively ensure that the first right to any opportunity to higher offices goes to the sons of the soil. We need not have communal electorates as so nicely explained by you nor for that matter reservations.

My state Haryana was carved out of the then Punjab taking into consideration the aspirations of the local people including Jats and other communities. I see no point in giving away the very land, resources and other opportunities to outsiders when we obtained a separate state after so much of a struggle. Having said that, we are still proud Indians and would like to contribute in the process of nation building but doing so while safeguarding the interests of our community/local population.

Finally, since you too believe in voting for the most suitable of Jat candidates, this post may be treated as my last reply to your previous post.

brahmtewatia
April 17th, 2009, 12:47 PM
sunil, w/o going too much into the intricacies tht have already been discussed at large... i wud like to appreciate yr feelings nd concern for JAT community, wch you have elaborated at length, in many of yr posts/threads. having said so, i personally feel tht the perfect scenario tht you have in mind, can only be possible if reservations are removed completely from the main-line of governance. a more rationale idea wud be to propagate sumthing like united state of india or like provincial representation as tht in canada, where every province have their own defined set of laws nd other governance modalities (pardon my ignorance here) in tht way, every state will then have a bigger say to govern their internal affairs nd tht also includes the quota of giving preference nd thereby providing more domiciliary recognition to the residents of a particular state.

say for example... keep 33% reservation for the residents of a particular state, irrespective of caste, colour or creed nd including every NDMC+J (naai, dhobi, mochi nd chamaar) + JAT's.

p.s. : no smiley's here, otherwise sunil phir se naaraaz ho jayega.

kapdal
April 17th, 2009, 03:15 PM
Sunil,

I quoted the exact pieces from your post that I found nonsensical/rhetorical. And I stick to my views given that you never bothered to reply to my points. You are free to criticise any part of my post that you found nonsensical. I'd love to know and reply why I think otherwise. I think it is much better than just attributing qualities like "pro-cosmopolitan" to people (instead of posts) without any logic and worse by misquoting/misrepresenting them (I now know that you didn't mean to be abusive and I actually take it as a compliment. For a change it is nice to be called something "pseud and hi-fi" and not a brazen, direct Jat that I am more used to :D. Still, it is beyond me why you'd call me that when none of my points were arguing about it).

Some of my outstanding questions to you if you care about a rational debate:

1. If Jats vote for Jat candidates irrespective of political parties, should they ignore the national context or bigger picture completely? Specific situation: West Delhi with 9% Jats. Assume CPI(M)/BSP fields a Jat candidate, neither BJP nor Congress do so. Now I think both CPI(M) and BSP are the worst possible and never want them to be a part of the govt. at center. Should I still vote for them? Would that not be a self-con job?

2. Political parties already field Jat candidates in Jat majority areas as one can see in Haryana. What about places like South Delhi and West Delhi (which you quoted earlier)- where Jats are not in majority? What should be the strategy there?

3. On the new sons-of-the-soils funda that you gave. There are several Jats in all sorts of positions (including high level) in both public and private sector all across India. What if all states start using this son-of-the-soil approach and these people lose their jobs because of that? Not sure till what extreme you favor it, but in principle the same ideology is used by Raj Thackeray. The principle is that native people should get preference for local jobs. If we apply that principle (and I hope we are arguing for a nuanced approach here), on what grounds would we oppose someone like Raj Thackeray who is also arguing for preference for Marathis in Mumbai? (I am taking pains to clarify here that I understand you have not (yet) argued for a violent approach like Raj. And I would like to believe that you believe in national unity unlike him. But when these "movements" for sons-of-the-soils start, it is quite hard to maintain a nuanced approach).

Would love to hear from you on these or anything else that I have actually said.

Regards,
Kapil

navdeepbudhwar
April 17th, 2009, 09:26 PM
haan ji jaroor ....i willl vote for jat candidate

rocky0036
April 17th, 2009, 09:32 PM
haan ji jaroor ....i willl vote for jat candidate
jo candidate desh ki sava karege us vote do


desh ko tarki ko casto main bato

ek jut hoke hi desh unti kar sakta hai

jai hind jai bharat jai hindustan

jai hindustani

heri hindustani ka saman karo na ki sirf jaato ka

skadian123
April 17th, 2009, 11:00 PM
No further Comments on any of your replies. You go ahead and enjoy your mud slinging game. However, would much appreciate if you could do so on some other thread.



Sunil,

I quoted the exact pieces from your post that I found nonsensical/rhetorical. And I stick to my views given that you never bothered to reply to my points. You are free to criticise any part of my post that you found nonsensical. I'd love to know and reply why I think otherwise. I think it is much better than just attributing qualities like "pro-cosmopolitan" to people (instead of posts) without any logic and worse by misquoting/misrepresenting them (I now know that you didn't mean to be abusive and I actually take it as a compliment. For a change it is nice to be called something "pseud and hi-fi" and not a brazen, direct Jat that I am more used to :D. Still, it is beyond me why you'd call me that when none of my points were arguing about it).

Some of my outstanding questions to you if you care about a rational debate:

1. If Jats vote for Jat candidates irrespective of political parties, should they ignore the national context or bigger picture completely? Specific situation: West Delhi with 9% Jats. Assume CPI(M)/BSP fields a Jat candidate, neither BJP nor Congress do so. Now I think both CPI(M) and BSP are the worst possible and never want them to be a part of the govt. at center. Should I still vote for them? Would that not be a self-con job?

2. Political parties already field Jat candidates in Jat majority areas as one can see in Haryana. What about places like South Delhi and West Delhi (which you quoted earlier)- where Jats are not in majority? What should be the strategy there?

3. On the new sons-of-the-soils funda that you gave. There are several Jats in all sorts of positions (including high level) in both public and private sector all across India. What if all states start using this son-of-the-soil approach and these people lose their jobs because of that? Not sure till what extreme you favor it, but in principle the same ideology is used by Raj Thackeray. The principle is that native people should get preference for local jobs. If we apply that principle (and I hope we are arguing for a nuanced approach here), on what grounds would we oppose someone like Raj Thackeray who is also arguing for preference for Marathis in Mumbai? (I am taking pains to clarify here that I understand you have not (yet) argued for a violent approach like Raj. And I would like to believe that you believe in national unity unlike him. But when these "movements" for sons-of-the-soils start, it is quite hard to maintain a nuanced approach).

Would love to hear from you on these or anything else that I have actually said.

Regards,
Kapil

skadian123
April 17th, 2009, 11:25 PM
Brahm,

Well, yes the models as outlined by you can very much be considered for India considering the level of success (or more appropriately, the failure)that we have had so far of the political setup. Considering the fact that it's been just a little over 60 years since independence and the level to which our political system has fallen to, it's time for us to look for alternatives.

As far as smileys are concerned, please go ahead and make full use of them as I am sure your wallet is full of them...:)


sunil, w/o going too much into the intricacies tht have already been discussed at large... i wud like to appreciate yr feelings nd concern for JAT community, wch you have elaborated at length, in many of yr posts/threads. having said so, i personally feel tht the perfect scenario tht you have in mind, can only be possible if reservations are removed completely from the main-line of governance. a more rationale idea wud be to propagate sumthing like united state of india or like provincial representation as tht in canada, where every province have their own defined set of laws nd other governance modalities (pardon my ignorance here) in tht way, every state will then have a bigger say to govern their internal affairs nd tht also includes the quota of giving preference nd thereby providing more domiciliary recognition to the residents of a particular state.

say for example... keep 33% reservation for the residents of a particular state, irrespective of caste, colour or creed nd including every NDMC+J (naai, dhobi, mochi nd chamaar) + JAT's.

p.s. : no smiley's here, otherwise sunil phir se naaraaz ho jayega.

kapdal
April 17th, 2009, 11:45 PM
No further Comments on any of your replies. You go ahead and enjoy your mud slinging game. However, would much appreciate if you could do so on some other thread.

I spent quite a bit of time framing my arguments that you have convemiently brushed off as mud slinging. Mud slinging is actually quite easy and can be achieved by 2 lines. I also left 3 questions for you. If you really care about what you were writing, I hope you would go through them and think about them. I might be a cheap mud slinger, but trust me those questions are very important to your topic. I wish some one else you have a liking for says the same thing or tries to look at these. Anyways, have a nice weekend...

skadian123
April 18th, 2009, 07:26 AM
No Comments again. Silence is always better than arguing just for the sake of arguing.


I spent quite a bit of time framing my arguments that you have convemiently brushed off as mud slinging. Mud slinging is actually quite easy and can be achieved by 2 lines. I also left 3 questions for you. If you really care about what you were writing, I hope you would go through them and think about them. I might be a cheap mud slinger, but trust me those questions are very important to your topic. I wish some one else you have a liking for says the same thing or tries to look at these. Anyways, have a nice weekend...

abhishekahlawat
April 18th, 2009, 10:19 AM
:rock:rock:rock:rock:rock:rock:rock:rock:rock:rock

JUST CAST YOUR VOTE AND DONT VOTE FOR CASTE. In my opinion vote should be given to person on the basis of his capabilities and how much he can give to our country and not only on the basis of caste.
Dont Forget JATS are from India and if India gets developed Jats are part of that but if a JAT politician dont think about India and do only for community what we will do with caste devlopment without country developing.
RRESPECT YOUR COUNTRY AS A WHOLE AND NOT ONLY JATS. CASTE IS ON THE BASIS OF CULTURE AND IT SHOULD NOT COME IN WAY OF NATION DEVELOPMENT .
I THINK WE SHOULD DISCOURAGE CASTE POLITICS AND NOT PROMOTE IT.
I WILL VOTE FOR A DESERVING CANDIDATE AND IF SOME JAT PERSON IS CORRUPT WILL NOT SUPPORT HIM IN ANYWAY.

abhishekahlawat
April 18th, 2009, 11:06 AM
Sunil,

I quoted the exact pieces from your post that I found nonsensical/rhetorical. And I stick to my views given that you never bothered to reply to my points. You are free to criticise any part of my post that you found nonsensical. I'd love to know and reply why I think otherwise. I think it is much better than just attributing qualities like "pro-cosmopolitan" to people (instead of posts) without any logic and worse by misquoting/misrepresenting them (I now know that you didn't mean to be abusive and I actually take it as a compliment. For a change it is nice to be called something "pseud and hi-fi" and not a brazen, direct Jat that I am more used to :D. Still, it is beyond me why you'd call me that when none of my points were arguing about it).

Some of my outstanding questions to you if you care about a rational debate:

1. If Jats vote for Jat candidates irrespective of political parties, should they ignore the national context or bigger picture completely? Specific situation: West Delhi with 9% Jats. Assume CPI(M)/BSP fields a Jat candidate, neither BJP nor Congress do so. Now I think both CPI(M) and BSP are the worst possible and never want them to be a part of the govt. at center. Should I still vote for them? Would that not be a self-con job?

2. Political parties already field Jat candidates in Jat majority areas as one can see in Haryana. What about places like South Delhi and West Delhi (which you quoted earlier)- where Jats are not in majority? What should be the strategy there?

3. On the new sons-of-the-soils funda that you gave. There are several Jats in all sorts of positions (including high level) in both public and private sector all across India. What if all states start using this son-of-the-soil approach and these people lose their jobs because of that? Not sure till what extreme you favor it, but in principle the same ideology is used by Raj Thackeray. The principle is that native people should get preference for local jobs. If we apply that principle (and I hope we are arguing for a nuanced approach here), on what grounds would we oppose someone like Raj Thackeray who is also arguing for preference for Marathis in Mumbai? (I am taking pains to clarify here that I understand you have not (yet) argued for a violent approach like Raj. And I would like to believe that you believe in national unity unlike him. But when these "movements" for sons-of-the-soils start, it is quite hard to maintain a nuanced approach).

Would love to hear from you on these or anything else that I have actually said.

Regards,
Kapil
KAPIL,
Seriously I have become a big fan of yours and sure if India and Jat ahve people like People like Sunil will change in times to come and will start thinking about the country

Cheers

skadian123
April 18th, 2009, 04:42 PM
I thank fellow members for putting in their valuable comments on this thread.

In fact, most of us concur with the point that Suitable Jat candidates should be fielded from the constituencies and that the voters should vote for the most competent among them.

I only hope that in future posts/replies on similar threads, the members comment only on the topic of the thread with their valuable inputs/contributions.

poonamchaudhary
April 19th, 2009, 09:37 AM
Voting for the right person is an important and a very responsible task which determines what kind of people are going to govern our country. Its a very important and determining step in the whole democratic process. So what I think is that we should forget about caste, community, religion etc. and vote for the person who is truly competent to lead and govern irrespective of his/her caste or religion.

rocky0036
April 19th, 2009, 10:59 AM
Voting for the right person is an important and a very responsible task which determines what kind of people are going to govern our country. Its a very important and determining step in the whole democratic process. So what I think is that we should forget about caste, community, religion etc. and vote for the person who is truly competent to lead and govern irrespective of his/her caste or religion.
very good thought:cool:

dvnehra
April 19th, 2009, 11:17 PM
Haryanvi jats have to unite to get their rights just like rajasthani jats

ARVINDJANGU
April 19th, 2009, 11:38 PM
through the medium of this thread, i request all fellow jatlanders to vote for jat candidates irrespective of their political party affiliation in the forthcoming parliamentary elections.

In fact, all the political parties would in turn, out of political compulsion be forced to field jat candidates from the constituencies when they know that jats would only vote for fellow jat candidates.

Besides voting for jat candidates, we need to ensure that there is jat voter turnout to the maximum extent possible.

let's forget our differences and vote for jat candidates and stop non-jat candidates taking advantage of jat-jat tussle/differences especially parties like haryana janhit congress and bsp which have explicit/clear anti-jat agenda.

hope that jat candidates are also fielded by all major political parties from ambala, karnal, kurukshetra and other non-jat majority seats of haryana in future.

भाई आपकी सलाह बिलकुल दुरुस्त हैं , पर जब सारे ही उमीदवार जाट हो जब क्या करे .......
खैर यह तो अलग बात हैं की जाट को वोट दे , आजकल हमारे ही जाट नेता अपनी ही कौम के लोगो को बरगला रहे हैं .|
कुछ दिन पहले तक कुछ लोग चौ .रणबीर हूड्डा को रहबरे आज़म चौ.छोटू राम जी ओहल्याण से बड़ा दर्शाने पर आमादा थे , उनका कहना हैं के भाखरा बाँध जिसको यह कांग्रेसी नहरू का सपना बताते हैं को चौ.रणबीर हूड्डा ने बनवाया था जबकि हकीक़त यह हैं के इसकी नींव चौ.छोटूराम ने रखी थी जिसका वहा आज भी प्रमाण मिल जायेगा , परन्तु इन् हाजरी मारा ने जाती पाती ता किम्मे लेना देना कोणी होता अक ताहरे इस दुस प्रचार त कोम पर के असर पड़े स | ठीक हैं चौ.रणबीर हूड्डा जी एक महान हस्ती थे , पर उस महान आदमी का नाम यूँ तो न मिटाओ , आज जिसकी बदौलत हम सब इस मुकाम पर पहुचे हैं |
अब एक महाश्ये जी की और सुनो , मैं भी इन् महाश्ये जी का समर्थक हु पर इब सारी हाँ क्यूकर भर दयूं | काल तारीख १८ को कुरुक्षेत्र में nda की रैली थी , रैली में चौ. ओमप्रकाश चौटाला ने अपने भाषण के आखिर में कोई मिसाल दी जिसमे उन्होंने कहा " राजपूत के घर जन्मे श्री राम " , इब हमारे इन् प्यारे नेता जी न कुण बतावे के श्री राम जी ने किसे राजपूत के नहीं जाट के घर जनम लिया था , यह सारी बातें हमारे कई बड़े इतिहासकार , कैप्टेन दिलीप सिंह अहलावत , भीम सिंह जी दहिया जैसे लोग प्रमाणित कर चुकें हैं | पर इन् वोट खातिर यह नेता हमारे इतिहास ने भी बेचन न तैयार स | इनने कोई बतानिया हो के हरियाणा में ३३% जाट स , इनने गल्ले लगा ल्यो या कुतेड आपेह काबू आ जागी | इन् जैसे जाट नेताओ के कारण ही तो हरियाणा में आज कुलदीप बिश्नोई , मायावती जैसे लोग खुलेआम भाषण में कहते हैं के हमे हरयाणा में गैर जाट मुख्येमंत्री चाहिए | हमारी कोम के कई जयचंद इन दोनों के साथ मिले हुवे हैं और इन् दोनों को जाट हितेषी भी बता रहें हैं |

vairesatendra
April 20th, 2009, 05:10 PM
Hi Jat Folks,

I can understand that caste is a very sensitive issue and I am in favour of casting our votes to a Jat candidate at least in Jat dominated areas, but this time these are General Elections and we must think about our country first. We as Indians must try to put forward a government which rules atleast for 5 years and we must make efforts to increase the percentage of voting(even above 60%). More percentage of polling will help to provide a clear mandate for a single national party which in turn will help in making good policies for the country because in a coalition government, more or less the policies remain same irrespective of NDA or UPA at the centre. Only 3% policies changes.

Better in this General Elections, think for the country before casting (or wasting) your vote and vote in more numbers. However we can use our vote for Jat candidates in state Assembly Polls.

kuldeeppunia25
April 20th, 2009, 06:19 PM
भाई आपकी सलाह बिलकुल दुरुस्त हैं , पर जब सारे ही उमीदवार जाट हो जब क्या करे .......
खैर यह तो अलग बात हैं की जाट को वोट दे , आजकल हमारे ही जाट नेता अपनी ही कौम के लोगो को बरगला रहे हैं .|
कुछ दिन पहले तक कुछ लोग चौ .रणबीर हूड्डा को रहबरे आज़म चौ.छोटू राम जी ओहल्याण से बड़ा दर्शाने पर आमादा थे , उनका कहना हैं के भाखरा बाँध जिसको यह कांग्रेसी नहरू का सपना बताते हैं को चौ.रणबीर हूड्डा ने बनवाया था जबकि हकीक़त यह हैं के इसकी नींव चौ.छोटूराम ने रखी थी जिसका वहा आज भी प्रमाण मिल जायेगा , परन्तु इन् हाजरी मारा ने जाती पाती ता किम्मे लेना देना कोणी होता अक ताहरे इस दुस प्रचार त कोम पर के असर पड़े स | ठीक हैं चौ.रणबीर हूड्डा जी एक महान हस्ती थे , पर उस महान आदमी का नाम यूँ तो न मिटाओ , आज जिसकी बदौलत हम सब इस मुकाम पर पहुचे हैं |
अब एक महाश्ये जी की और सुनो , मैं भी इन् महाश्ये जी का समर्थक हु पर इब सारी हाँ क्यूकर भर दयूं | काल तारीख १८ को कुरुक्षेत्र में nda की रैली थी , रैली में चौ. ओमप्रकाश चौटाला ने अपने भाषण के आखिर में कोई मिसाल दी जिसमे उन्होंने कहा " राजपूत के घर जन्मे श्री राम " , इब हमारे इन् प्यारे नेता जी न कुण बतावे के श्री राम जी ने किसे राजपूत के नहीं जाट के घर जनम लिया था , यह सारी बातें हमारे कई बड़े इतिहासकार , कैप्टेन दिलीप सिंह अहलावत , भीम सिंह जी दहिया जैसे लोग प्रमाणित कर चुकें हैं | पर इन् वोट खातिर यह नेता हमारे इतिहास ने भी बेचन न तैयार स | इनने कोई बतानिया हो के हरियाणा में ३३% जाट स , इनने गल्ले लगा ल्यो या कुतेड आपेह काबू आ जागी | इन् जैसे जाट नेताओ के कारण ही तो हरियाणा में आज कुलदीप बिश्नोई , मायावती जैसे लोग खुलेआम भाषण में कहते हैं के हमे हरयाणा में गैर जाट मुख्येमंत्री चाहिए | हमारी कोम के कई जयचंद इन दोनों के साथ मिले हुवे हैं और इन् दोनों को जाट हितेषी भी बता रहें हैं |

bhai mane teri baat jama bdhiya lagyi tane achi jankari dike is khajniti ke baare me bhai jutya ro ...........

Bhupinder
April 21st, 2009, 11:33 PM
Does any one can post Jat leaders list? Does any one know how many Jat leaders in battle field of 2009 election?

piush_tomar
April 22nd, 2009, 08:42 AM
http://in.jagran.yahoo.com/news/local/uttarpradesh/4_1_5411828.html

अजित सिंह की सभा पर पुलिस की कड़ी नजर
Apr 22, 02:02 am

बागपत। किरठल में होने वाली रालोद अध्यक्ष चौधरी अजित सिंह की सभा का आयोजक कुख्यात धर्मेन्द्र किरठल के बनने का मामला सामने आने के बाद से पुलिस ने इस पर कड़ी नजरें गड़ाई हुई है। सभा के दौरान वहां पीएसी के अलावा भारी पुलिस बल तैनात रहेगा।

किरठल में आज (बुधवार) को चौधरी अजित सिंह की चुनावी सभा का आयोजन होना है। इस सभा का आयोजन अलीगढ़ जेल में बंद कुख्यात धर्मेन्द्र किरठल द्वारा कराये जाने का मामला सामने आया है। एसपी डीके राय ने बताया कि चुनावी सभा के आयोजक बदमाशों के बनने पर चुनावों की शांति व्यवस्था बिगड़ने का खतरा पैदा हो जाता है। सभा से शांति व्यवस्था को किसी तरह का खतरा पैदा नहीं हो, इसके लिए भारी पुलिस का इंतजाम कर दिया गया है। एसपी ने बताया कि किरठल में होने वाली इस सभा के दौरान एएसपी महेन्द्र पाल सिंह, सीओ बड़ौत विनीत भटनागर, चार थानों के एसओ व पीएसी के अलावा भारी पुलिस बल वहां तैनात रहेगा। उनके अनुसार किसी भी बदमाश को सभा के आसपास नहीं आने दिया जायेगा। वहीं खुफिया विभाग भी इस मामले को लेकर काफी सक्रिय है और सभा से संबंधित सूचनाएं जुटाने में लगा हुआ है।

उधर, किरठल में होने वाली इस चुनावी सभा का आयोजन अलीगढ़ जेल में बंद कुख्यात धर्मेन्द्र किरठल द्वारा कराये जाने का मामला सामने आने के बाद एसपी डीके राय ने इसकी जांच एएसपी महेन्द्र पाल सिंह को सौंपी थी। एएसपी मंगलवार को किरठल पहुंचे और इसके बारे में लोगों से पूछताछ की गई। सूत्रों के अनुसार लोगों पहले तो इस बारे में कुछ बोलने से इंकार कर दिया, लेकिन बाद इससे जुड़ी कुछ महत्वपूर्ण बातें एएसपी को पता चली। एएसपी का कहना है कि जांच पूरी होने के बाद ही कोई फैसला लिया जायेगा। इस दौरान सभा में किसी तरह का व्यवधान पैदा नहीं किया जायेगा।

SHOULD ANY CIVILIZED , EDUCATED JAT CAN VOTE HIM?

sachinb
April 22nd, 2009, 03:26 PM
jyaada kuchh nahi bas itnaa hi ....."Jat Ekta Jindabaad":rock

anilsangwan
April 22nd, 2009, 03:29 PM
Jindabaad bhai Jindaabad.... Jat Ekta Jindabaad !!!! Sh Ramesh Kumar Jinddaaabad!!




jyaada kuchh nahi bas itnaa hi ....."Jat Ekta Jindabaad":rock

vairesatendra
April 22nd, 2009, 04:39 PM
Hi Friends,

As most of us might be aware that this time in Lok Sabha elections 2009, we have only one JAT candidate from Delhi. Ramesh Kumar(Sajjan Kumar's brother), the congress candidate from South Delhi is only JAT candidate from Delhi.

Ramesh Kumar is contesting against Ramesh Bidhuri and Kanwar Singh Tanwar(Both Gurjars) from BJP and BSP respectively.

Thus I would appeal to all the South Delhiites to vote in favour of Congress's Jat candidate, Mr. Ramesh Kumar on May 7th, 2009 and make at least one JAT MP from Delhi.

sachinb
April 23rd, 2009, 11:26 AM
Chinta naa kar bhai saari vote Ch. Ramesh Kumar ke jaangi.......

Jat Ekta Jindabaad......Ch. Sajjan Kumar Jindabaad:rock:rock


Hi Friends,

As most of us might be aware that this time in Lok Sabha elections 2009, we have only one JAT candidate from Delhi. Ramesh Kumar(Sajjan Kumar's brother), the congress candidate from South Delhi is only JAT candidate from Delhi.

Ramesh Kumar is contesting against Ramesh Bidhuri and Kanwar Singh Tanwar(Both Gurjars) from BJP and BSP respectively.

Thus I would appeal to all the South Delhiites to vote in favour of Congress's Jat candidate, Mr. Ramesh Kumar on May 7th, 2009 and make at least one JAT MP from Delhi.

anilsangwan
April 23rd, 2009, 01:29 PM
Delhi waalo..... Ramesh Kumar ji ki jeet Sajjan kumar ji ki Jeet hogi...... Itni voton se jeeta dyo inn ko ki Rahul bhi Amethi se itni voton se naa jeeta ho !!! Party-baaji se upper ooth ka Ramesh ji ka smarthan karo !!! Jo log BJP waale hain...woh bhi smarthan karo !!!

Jat Ekta Jindabaad......Ch. Sajjan Kumar Jindabaad!!!


Chinta naa kar bhai saari vote Ch. Ramesh Kumar ke jaangi.......

Jat Ekta Jindabaad......Ch. Sajjan Kumar Jindabaad:rock:rock

sonidahi
May 3rd, 2009, 12:51 AM
Qualities should matter more than anything else. Honesty, committment, down to Earth approach etc

piush_tomar
May 6th, 2009, 10:54 AM
Is Ajit losing the Baghpat plot?
FOR THE YOUTH, AJIT’S FATHER CHARAN SINGH DOES NOT INSPIRE LOYALTY — THEY DON’T REMEMBER HIM. MOREOVER, THE RLD CHIEF’S TIE-UP WITH THE BJP IS ALSO ALIENATING HIS CONSTITUENCY’S MUSLIMS
S.Raju
Chaprauli (Baghpat)
5, May, 2009Hindustan times
IN THIS Jat-dominated constituency, the divide is clear.
The older generation still reveres Chaudhury Charan Singh, and is prepared to vote blindly for his son, Rashtriya Lok Dal chief Ajit Singh, 70, who is contesting the seat once more. To the young, Charan Singh is not even a memory.
They are full of complaints against Ajit Singh.
Baghpat lies in Delhi’s backyard, barely 40 km east. “But there are hardly any developmental activities or industries here,” said Harpal Singh, 24, of Malakpur village.
The land is fertile and wellirrigated, yielding bumper crops of wheat and sugarcane, but that does not fulfill the rising aspirations of Baghpat’s youth.
“Land holdings are getting smaller and smaller due to fragmentation,” said Devendra Kumar Arya, Independent candidate. “If there are three or four brothers, and all have their own families, they cannot all live off the land.” Charan Singh, fomer prime minister, the architect of land reforms in Uttar Pradesh, con tested and won the Baghpat seat three times from 1977.
Taking over from his father, Ajit Singh has won the same seat five times, and lost it once.
There is a second problem too this time — Ajit Singh’s tie up with the BJP. How have the 3.5 lakh Muslim voters of Baghpat taken it? The RLD’s MLA from Baghpat, himself a Muslim, Kokab Hamid, is reluctant to discuss the matter. “We are trying to explain that it was an electoral compulsion,” a close aide of Hamid said.
Thus Ajit’s two main opponents, Sompal Shastri of the Congress and Mukesh Pandit of the Bahujan Samaj Party are both hopeful.
Shastri was the man — then contesting on a BJP ticket — who defeated Ajit in the 1998 poll, the only time Ajit met this fate. About Pandit, BSP workers admit he is a local strongman, and insist such a candidate was necessary to give Baghpat’s Dalits the courage to come out and vote against the Jat backed Ajit Singh.

rocky0036
May 6th, 2009, 11:49 AM
Qualities should matter more than anything else. Honesty, committment, down to Earth approach etc
yes its better think but there are all same person in political parties
:mad: