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View Full Version : Again a Gotra-Marriage Row!!



Samarkadian
July 17th, 2009, 11:08 AM
Panipat, July 16

Turning down the divorce proposal put up by the Barah Khap panchayat to end the marriage of Ravinder Gehlout and Shilpa, a khap panchayat held at girl’s native village Siwah today stated that they would not let anybody destroy the girl’s life.

A delegation of the Barah Khap today arrived at Siwah to get the consent of Shilpa’s parents for a mutual divorce. However, after prolonged discussions, the proposal was turned down by the girl’s side.

Today’s khap was organised at the house of Labh Singh Kadyan. Arguing over the issue raised by the khap from Ravinder’s village, locals stated that the boy’s family knew that the girl belonged to the Kadyan gotra and they should have first sought permission from their village before marrying their son with Shilpa.

They stated that the girl was not at fault therefore why should the girl become a victim. They maintained that once divorced, it would become very difficult for the girl to spend the rest of her life unmarried or get remarried.

They said either the boy’s family should convince their village to accept the Kadyan girl as their daughter-in-law or they should leave the village. However, there was no point of giving divorce to the girl after months of marriage, maintained the girl’s side.

Meanwhile, a member of the delegation from Ravinder’s village stated that the boy’s family had kept them in the dark and told them that they had managed to persuade the girl’s family for a mutual divorce, following which they had come here.

It was later decided that a final decision in this regard would be taken at the next khap panchayat, which would be held at Beri village in Rohtak district.

According to a report from Jhajjar, the Kadyan Barha khap panchayat delivered yet another verdict ordering the boy’s family to leave the village by Sunday.

The khap from the boy’s village had been maintaining that the marriage of Ravinder and Shilpa was against social norms. It had even issued a notice to the boy’s family to dispose of their property in the village and leave within 72 hours if the marriage was not dissolved.

Ravinder’s father Rohtash, son of Risal Singh, along with other members of the family had reportedly sought police protection and legal action against 18 residents of their village and some members of the khap panchayat committee following the khap verdict.


http://www.tribuneindia.com/2009/20090717/haryana.htm#1


================================================== ======
Guys,

It seems that in recent times Gotra row over marriage doesnt seem to stop and everytime it arises question needed to be answered in a retrospective way of customs without going berserk over the existing system.It is very hard to avoid these incidents just by saying them ancient mindless tradition of marriage.However, how do all of you feel/think about this system,be honest?
I would want historians and pro-khap supporters to come up and have their say in a constructive way. It would be good if someone come up better guidelines about these not-so-good rows every now and then. Simply criticising would not do any favour to anyone.

Few questions:- 1. Is it the fault of a common [jat] man to be unaware of the ''bhaichara'' among Gotras? How it could be streamlined from the Khap leadership.

2. If such case arises, is there any supreme body to handle these matters in clear and concise manner? If not, then how n when it would be formed?

3.Functionality of Khap system, Why, often is significant to Marriage Gotra row instead of other social upliftment issues? What could be done and most importantly, How?

anilsangwan
July 17th, 2009, 11:13 AM
http://www.jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27057

nareshkadyan7
July 17th, 2009, 05:15 PM
Criminal proceedings against khap office bearers.....

anilsangwan
July 17th, 2009, 05:23 PM
criminal proceedings against khap office bearers.....


रोचक !!!..... देखो कानून खाप के सामने झुकता है या फिर खाप कानून के सामने...

kapdal
July 17th, 2009, 05:30 PM
kaunsa gotra bhida hai? maan ka, daadi ka ya general bhaichara? Yeh to poore family support ke saath karr rahe the...to panchayat ko bera hona chaahiye tha...pehle kisi ne roka tha inhain?

vikasgahlot
July 20th, 2009, 02:00 PM
panchyat is taking wrong decision at dharana. please help to gahlot family. kadiyan gotra ki ladki talao gaon ( district jhajjar) main bhayi gayi hai, aur wo bhi gahlot gotra main. uska bhi ghar tudwao. agar ravinder galt hai to. samaj ke tekhedaro se gahlot family ki help karo, jago jatoo jago

mhundpuriamann
July 20th, 2009, 05:33 PM
what is complete story brother ! kaun hai ye rabinder kya ho gyaa ?

raka
July 21st, 2009, 10:12 AM
panchyat is taking wrong decision at dharana. please help to gahlot family. kadiyan gotra ki ladki talao gaon ( district jhajjar) main bhayi gayi hai, aur wo bhi gahlot gotra main. uska bhi ghar tudwao. agar ravinder galt hai to. samaj ke tekhedaro se gahlot family ki help karo, jago jatoo jago
talaa gaam kadiyano ka khera nahi hain.

avesh
July 21st, 2009, 12:21 PM
सप्ताह भर से चल रहे ढ़राणा गोत्र विवाद के मामले में पुलिस प्रशासन की लापरवाही व अदूरदर्शिता के चलते स्थिति आज पूरी तरह विस्फोटक बन गई। गांव दूबलधन में कादियान खाप से जुड़े लोगों ने बैठक कर लाठियों व पत्थरों से लैस होकर पीड़ित परिवार पर हमला बोल दिया। पीड़ित परिवार के मकान के पास खाप से जुड़े लोगों व पुलिसकर्मियों में जमकर पत्थरबाजी व लाठियां चली। पत्थरबाजी में पीड़ित परिवार के मोहल्ले के लोग भी परिवार के पक्ष में उतर आए। पुलिस ने आंसू गैस व हवाई फायर के साथ लाठी चार्ज कर भीड़ को तितर-बितर किया। घटना में बेरी के नायब तहसीलदार सहित 8 पुलिसकर्मी भी घायल हो गए। स्थिति पूरी तरह तनावपूर्ण बनी हुई है। समाचार लिखे जाने तक गांव ढ़राणा व दूबलधन में पंचायत जारी थी। घटना की सूचना मिलते ही आई.जी वी.कामराजा, रोहतक के एसएसपी अनिल कुमार के साथ बेरी थाने में पहुंचे और थाने में ही बैठकर पल-पल की जानकारी लेते रहे। स्थिति के पूरी तरह नियंत्रण में होने के बाद उन्होंने गांव ढ़राणा का भी दौरा किया। पिछले सप्ताह भर से एक तरह से नजरबंदी में जी रहे पीड़ित परिवार के लोगों ने सायं के समय भय के चलते गांव छोड़ने का निर्णय कर लिया था लेकिन गांव के अनेक लोगों व खाप से जुड़े कुछ आधुनिक सोच रखने वाले बुद्धिजीवी लोगों के आग्रह पर उन्होंने पलायन के लिए बांधा गया सामान वापिस रख दिया। इससे पूर्व गत दिवस बेरी में हुई पंचायत में लिए गए निर्णय के अनुसार ढ़राणा कूच को लेकर आज सुबह लगभग 10 बजे बेरी के राजकीय कन्या वरिष्ठ माध्यमिक विद्यालय में खाप की महापंचायत का आयोजन किया गया। इसके लिए बाकायदा खाप से जुड़े सभी गांवों में लाउडस्पीकर के माध्यम से खाप की इज्जात के नाम पर भाग लेने का आह्वान किया गया। लगभग एक घंटे चली महापंचायत में गांव ढ़राणा में पहुंचकर पीड़ित परिवारों पर हमला बोलकर जबरदस्ती उन्हे गांव से खदेड़ने का निर्णय लिया गया। महापंचायत से मीडिया को भी दूर रखा गया। निर्णय के अनुसार खाप से जुड़े लोग ट्रैक्टरों व अन्य वाहनों में लाठियों व पत्थरों आदि से लैस होकर गांव ढ़राणा की ओर चल पड़े। रास्ते में मीडिया कर्मियों पर हमला कर पुलिस के हर अवरोध को आसानी से पार करते हुए भीड़ गांव ढ़राणा में पहुंच गई, जहां पीड़ित परिवार के मकान के पास जब पुलिस ने उन्हे रोकने की कोशिश की तो भीड़ ने पत्थरों व लाठियों से हमला बोल दिया। जिसके बाद पीड़ित परिवार के मोहल्ले के अनेक परिवारों के सदस्य भी अपने मकानों की छत पर चढ़ गए और उन्होंने भी खाप के लोगों पर पथराव शुरू कर दिया। लगभग आधे घंटे हुई पत्थरबाजी, हवाई फायर, आंसू गैस के गोले व लाठी चार्ज के बाद पुलिस भीड़ को तितर-बितर करने में कामयाब हो गई। प्रशासन की ओर से भारी पुलिस बल मौके पर बुला लिया गया। इतना ही नहीं रिजर्व पुलिस बल को भी बुला लिया गया था जो देर सायं गांव में पहुंच गया था। प्रशासन ने पूरी तरह तनावपूर्ण चल रहे माहौल के बीच शांति व्यवस्था बनाए रखने के लिए धारा 144 लागू कर दी है।

raka
July 21st, 2009, 02:16 PM
हमारे देश के नॉर्थ-ईस्ट राज्यों में उनका अपना अलग से मैरिज़ एक्ट हैं जबकि हमारे ऊपर 1956 में दक्षिण भारत के अयेंगेर (ब्रह्मण) साहब के अध्यक्षता में बने मैरिज़ एक्ट को थोप रखा हैं | दक्षिण भारत में हिन्दू अपने मामा बुआ , अपने खुद के गोत्र की लड़की से शादी कर सकता हैं जबकि हमारे यहाँ हम तीन गोत्र टालते हैं , इन तीन गोत्र की लड़कियों को अपनी बहन मानते हैं | दक्षिण भारत के हिन्दुओ व उतरी भारत के हिन्दुओ के रीति रिवाजो में रात दिन का अंतर हैं | जब तक कानून ऐसी शादियों को मान्यता देता रहेगा तब तक ऐसी शादिया होती रहेंगी और फिर वही खून खराबा पंचायती झगड़े होते रहेंगे | इसलिए इस प्रकार के विवाह रोकने के लिए कानून में संसोधन जरुरी हैं | हमारी आजकल की नई पीढ़ी के कुछ लोगो का मानना हैं की अब हम 21 वी सदी में आ गए हैं , 21 सदी में आने का मतलब यह नहीं के अब हमारी बहन बहन नहीं रही |

kapdal
July 21st, 2009, 02:24 PM
Paanch thread chaloo ho rakhe hain is mudde pe...but ek point kisi mein bhi nahin aaya hai...kisi ko pata hai kaunsa gotra bhida hai? Kadyan gahlot bhaichara hai kya? Ya fir maan/dadi ka gotra bhida hai?

jitendershooda
July 21st, 2009, 02:43 PM
Paanch thread chaloo ho rakhe hain is mudde pe...but ek point kisi mein bhi nahin aaya hai...kisi ko pata hai kaunsa gotra bhida hai? Kadyan gahlot bhaichara hai kya? Ya fir maan/dadi ka gotra bhida hai?

:) Kapil bhai ...

Dharana gaon mein dono gotr hein - Kadian and Gahlawat.

And they have an understanding that neither Kadians will marry in gahlawat gotr and neither vice versa.

In this issue, the boy is Gahlawat from Dharana who married Kadian girl of Sihwa village near to panipat.

So this is the real issue.

brainspeak
July 21st, 2009, 03:17 PM
:) Kapil bhai ...

Dharana gaon mein dono gotr hein - Kadian and Gahlawat.

And they have an understanding that neither Kadians will marry in gahlawat gotr and neither vice versa.

In this issue, the boy is Gahlawat from Dharana who married Kadian girl of Sihwa village near to panipat.

So this is the real issue.

bhai jitender,

gotra talna to samaj aaya...lekin yeh bhaichare wale chakkar mein to exception honi chaiye...yeh jabardasti ka mudda hai...

ravinderjeet
July 21st, 2009, 03:26 PM
iss maamley main marey vichaar se ,ladkaa aur ladki kee jindgi kheraab ker ke khaap panchayat galat ker rahi hey .galti ladkey walon ne kari hey, bhaaichaara kaa sidhaant tod ke.ismey kisi kaa nuksaan naa ho isliye ladkaa aur ladki ko 20-25 saal ke liyea kahin baaher rahaney ki ijaajat de deni chaahiye.aur ravinder ke parivaar per jurmaana ker ke chod denaa beheter hogaa ,taaki aagey koi duubaara asi galti naa karey.aur saamajik niyem bhi naa tootey.

kapdal
July 21st, 2009, 03:39 PM
:) Kapil bhai ...

Dharana gaon mein dono gotr hein - Kadian and Gahlawat.

And they have an understanding that neither Kadians will marry in gahlawat gotr and neither vice versa.

In this issue, the boy is Gahlawat from Dharana who married Kadian girl of Sihwa village near to panipat.

So this is the real issue.

Thanks jitu for the clarification. Another question- is this understanding shared by Kadian and Gahlawats in other villages also? (Aise cases dekhe hain maine ki ek gaon mein donon gotra hon to aur gaon ke log bhi maan ne lagte hain bhaichaare ko, khaaskar jab bada gaon ho to).

Par yeh baat to sabko clear hogi. Aur in logon ne bhaag ke shaadi bhi nahin ki. To rishta pakka hone pe ya roke ke time Panchayat waale so rahe the?

brainspeak
July 21st, 2009, 04:15 PM
Thanks jitu for the clarification. Another question- is this understanding shared by Kadian and Gahlawats in other villages also? (Aise cases dekhe hain maine ki ek gaon mein donon gotra hon to aur gaon ke log bhi maan ne lagte hain bhaichaare ko, khaaskar jab bada gaon ho to).

Par yeh baat to sabko clear hogi. Aur in logon ne bhaag ke shaadi bhi nahin ki. To rishta pakka hone pe ya roke ke time Panchayat waale so rahe the?

it has been reported in indian express tht -->> the guy had been living in delhi with his aunt...nd here he fell in love with this girl shilpa (whose cousin is married to ravinder's cousin)...the guy's family knew abt the bhaichara thing but guy was lattoo over the girl nd went ahead with the marriage nd started staying in delhi....this news abt the bhaichara in gotra was leaked only recently, hence the brawl...
but according to me this bhaichaara thing is total crap!!...there is no bhaichaara left nowadays in the villages nd some anitsocial elemnts (which r present in every village) stir up such issues..

@ravinderjeet : a very practical solution suggested by you...

jitendershooda
July 21st, 2009, 05:26 PM
Thanks jitu for the clarification. Another question- is this understanding shared by Kadian and Gahlawats in other villages also? (Aise cases dekhe hain maine ki ek gaon mein donon gotra hon to aur gaon ke log bhi maan ne lagte hain bhaichaare ko, khaaskar jab bada gaon ho to).

Par yeh baat to sabko clear hogi. Aur in logon ne bhaag ke shaadi bhi nahin ki. To rishta pakka hone pe ya roke ke time Panchayat waale so rahe the?

I think NO in this particular case. Means there is no global bhaichara between these two. Its only in this village because of both gotras residing together.

In the second part Kamal, I think you are giving clean chit to the couple even though knowingly they did this.

One thing is clear, one cant solve or leave these kind of issues just by saying few statements. These regulations have been made few decades/centuries ego ... Looking at present scenerio they are changing too like they have left nani's gotra and now dadi's. Also some of the bhaichara is also diluting.

But here there must be strong involvement of educated and govt. to arrange panchayats at larger level. These issues should be discussed in depth and some resolutions should be there. Legal aspects should also be taken care of and like Rakka said if required there must be some amendements according to our reeti-rivajs.

Itni asamtaen hote hue hum ek lathi se poore desh ki janta ko nahi hank sakte. Ek taraf to Gandhi ji ke panchayati raj ki achaiyon ki duhai dete hein aur iss terah ke mamlon mein uneh illetrate kahe ke peeche hat jate hein.

These kind of issues are ambushed only when they arouse and left with bitterness among several locals. If govt conducts panchayati elections then why not there is any contribution at panchayat level only to solve these .... pahele gaon ki, phir bahre ki, phir kae khap ki ... kuch to time delay solve karta issue aur kuch discussions.

What I feel for this issue is that the boy and girl should not be allowed in village. Rest they can give some monitory punishment to parents .... and this money should be used directly in some social work at village itself like education etc.
Also this issue doesnt rest here instead discussions must carry on to reach some conclusion to avoid in future.

Samarkadian
July 21st, 2009, 05:48 PM
ढराणा गोत्र विवाद में गहलोत परिवारों को गांव से निकालने पर अड़ी कादियान खाप ने सोमवार को भी गांव के स्कूल में डेरा जमाए रखा। हालांकि गहलोत खाप व अन्य के दबाव में पंचायत रोहतास के भाइयों को गांव में ही रहने देने को राजी हो गई। पंचायत रोहतास के परिवार को गांव छोड़ने व उसके भाइयों पर 21-21 हजार रुपये का जुर्माना लगाने पर सहमत हो गई, लेकिन रोहतास ने किसी कीमत पर गांव छोड़ने से इनकार कर दिया। रोहतास ने पुलिस व प्रशासन पर जानबूझकर ढिलाई बरतने के आरोप लगाए।
दूसरी ओर, पुलिस व प्रशासन के आला अधिकारी दिनभर पंचायत के मान-मनव्वल में जुटे रहे। अब गहलोत खाप भी बीच-बचाव में उतर आई है। गहलोत खाप के प्रधान जगदीश मितराऊ भी अन्य मौजिज लोगों के साथ काफी देर तक पंचायत में मौजूद रहे और मामले को सुलझाने की अपील की, लेकिन परिवारों के निष्कासन के अलावा कोई भी बात सुनने को तैयार नहीं खाप प्रतिनिधि अपने फैसले पर अड़े रहे।

http://www4.jagran.com/main.aspx?edate=7/21/2009&editioncode=9&pageno=1#

Important thing to notice in these incidents is silence acquired by otherwise overactive Jat Politicians both in power and opposition.

dahiya1683
July 21st, 2009, 06:02 PM
Panchayat ko is tarah law and order apne haath me ni lena chahiye... Unhe samajhdari se kaam lena chahiye... Time badal gaya hai.. isliye thoda bahut to panchayto ko bhi apna behaviour badlna chahiye... .....

Lekin Avesh, ye to batao ki Ye Kadian or Gahlot ka chakkar kaise pada... ye same gotr to hai ni jo itna bawal mach gya... Kadia or gahlot me to shaadi ho sakti hai.. In dono gotr me to bhaichara bhi ni hai, fir shaadi pe itna rola kaise mach gya....

guliayaj100
July 21st, 2009, 06:09 PM
Bhaichara maintain karna bahut jaroori hai. Ise case me samasya ya ho jya sai ke gaam ki lugai aaseervad dete time usne beti mane ak bahu. ib to chore chori ke gaam me entry ban honi chahiye. pariwar pae thoda fine karna chahiye. gaam te bahar kaddhan ki baat to galat hai or divorce ki baat te aur bi galat hai.

kapdal
July 21st, 2009, 08:53 PM
I think NO in this particular case. Means there is no global bhaichara between these two. Its only in this village because of both gotras residing together.

In the second part Kamal, I think you are giving clean chit to the couple even though knowingly they did this.

One thing is clear, one cant solve or leave these kind of issues just by saying few statements. These regulations have been made few decades/centuries ego ... Looking at present scenerio they are changing too like they have left nani's gotra and now dadi's. Also some of the bhaichara is also diluting.

But here there must be strong involvement of educated and govt. to arrange panchayats at larger level. These issues should be discussed in depth and some resolutions should be there. Legal aspects should also be taken care of and like Rakka said if required there must be some amendements according to our reeti-rivajs.

Itni asamtaen hote hue hum ek lathi se poore desh ki janta ko nahi hank sakte. Ek taraf to Gandhi ji ke panchayati raj ki achaiyon ki duhai dete hein aur iss terah ke mamlon mein uneh illetrate kahe ke peeche hat jate hein.

These kind of issues are ambushed only when they arouse and left with bitterness among several locals. If govt conducts panchayati elections then why not there is any contribution at panchayat level only to solve these .... pahele gaon ki, phir bahre ki, phir kae khap ki ... kuch to time delay solve karta issue aur kuch discussions.

What I feel for this issue is that the boy and girl should not be allowed in village. Rest they can give some monitory punishment to parents .... and this money should be used directly in some social work at village itself like education etc.
Also this issue doesnt rest here instead discussions must carry on to reach some conclusion to avoid in future.

Jitu, I am not giving anyone clean chit. Don't you think it is a genuine question what the panchayat was doing when the marriage was being planned? Or did the families do this without inviting or telling anyone else in the village? Main isliye yeh point bol raha hoon ki gaon main bahut characters aise bhi hote hain jinhain rolla karne main swad aata hai. Ki karr len do shaadi, hum uske baad dekh lenge. That kind of attitude is also not helpful. So it is important to know if Panchayat had let them known its opposition from the beginning or they were roused into action by some elements keen to cause ruckus. I don't know the answer.

Another issue I see with this sort of bhaichara is its effects when people change villages or when villages become towns. Abhi sab teen gotra chhodte hain- apna, maan aur daadi ka. Kuchh log specific bhaichara maante hain. Dalal, deswal, maan aur sehwag bhaichara maante hain, jabki hamaare gaon mein yeh gotra nahin hai. Par agar kal ko hamaare gaon mein 4 naye gotra aa jaayenge, to fir woh bhi maanne lagenge? Aur jin logon ki shaadi pehle hi un gotron mein ho rakhi hain, unka kya hoga? Aise gaon hain, jahaan log idhar udhar se zameen khareed ke base hain- jaise ki kalanaur. Isi tarah to shahar ke ek mohalle mein 10 gotra mil jaayenge, to sabka bhaichara ho jaayega? Bhaichara makes sense when it comes from a common ancestry, and not because of people settling at new places. Just to be clear, mujhe nahin pata ki kadian aur gahlawats ke bhaichare ka kya kaaran hai. Shayad bahut time se yeh maante hon. I am making a general point.

harish24
July 21st, 2009, 09:08 PM
I think most of Jatlander understand the problem. It has become a issue of conflict between two major Jat Khaps, the administration can do nothing in it.Pehli bat to ki ladka aur ladki 3 months se sath rah rahe hai to ab to unko Bhai Behan banana will not be possible- easy solution yehi hai ki unko 10-20 sal ke liye gaon se bahar nikal dena chahiye and some fine on the father of the boy, i think that will be enough at this stage. Kadian aur Gehlawat ke bhich me koi Universal Sumjhota nahi hai is type ka Sirf village to village level par hai to woh dono Boy ang girl gam me nahi rahenge. In my opinion Kadian khap kuchh jayada hi hard hai us time kahan gaye the ye Choudhary jab Vivah ka band bajj raha tha. Baki I will request to the new generations to understand our social Network , it is not possible in our society a marriage between boy and girl of the same village or same gotra of other village, it is possible only in films not in realty.Young generation should understand the hard fact otherwise honour killings in Western UP and Haryana will keep on going.:confused:

dndeswal
July 22nd, 2009, 07:28 AM
Panchayat ko is tarah law and order apne haath me ni lena chahiye... Unhe samajhdari se kaam lena chahiye... Time badal gaya hai.. isliye thoda bahut to panchayto ko bhi apna behaviour badlna chahiye... .....

Lekin Avesh, ye to batao ki Ye Kadian or Gahlot ka chakkar kaise pada... ye same gotr to hai ni jo itna bawal mach gya... Kadia or gahlot me to shaadi ho sakti hai.. In dono gotr me to bhaichara bhi ni hai, fir shaadi pe itna rola kaise mach gya....

क्या "law & order" यानि नये-नये कानून बनाते वक्त सरकार को भी समझदारी से काम नहीं लेना चाहिये ? सामाजिक मामलों में सरकारें काफी दखलंदाजी कर रही हैं और इससे गावों में सामाजिक समस्यायें पैदा हो रही हैं । बहुत पहले हरयाणा में कानून बना दिया गया था जिसके मुताबिक लड़की को पिता की सम्पत्ति में बराबर हिस्सा मिलता है । अगर किसी के पास लड़का नहीं है तो उसके मरने की बाद जायदाद लड़की को मिल जाती है । वह ब्याही लड़की दूसरे गांव से अपने पति और बाल बच्चों के साथ अपने पिता के गांव में रहने लगती है । इसलिए आजकल एक-एक गांव में कई-कई गोत्र हो गए हैं जबकि पहले एक-दो गोत्र ही होते थे । सरकारें नए-नए कानून तो पास कर देती हैं पर उनके लागू होने पर कितनी सामाजिक समस्यायें पैदा होंगी, इस पर कोई ध्यान नहीं देता ।

काद्याण और गहलावत गोत्र में शादी तो हो सकती है क्योंकि ये दोनों अलग-अलग गोत्र हैं । पर मामला सिर्फ गोत्र का नहीं, उस गांव का भी है । ढ़राणा काद्याण गोत्र का गाँव है पर उस गांव में कुछ गहलावत गोत्र के परिवार भी हैं जो शायद बाद में वहां बस गए होंगे । इस नाते उस गांव में रहने वाले गहलावत परिवार में किसी काद्याण गोत्र की लड़की नहीं ब्याही जा सकती, उस गांव में रहने वाले गहलावत परिवारों को काद्याण गोत्र के साथ "भाईचारा" निभाना चाहिये । अगर ऐसा रिश्ता हो जाये तो, पंचायत के नियमानुसार, इसका एक ही तरीका है कि वह परिवार उस गांव को छोड़कर कहीं और रहने लग जाये । काद्याण पंचायत ने भी यही फैसला किया है । पर आजकल घर और जमीन को छोड़कर कौन जाना चाहता है ? यही हो रहा है । सिर्फ पुलिस के डंडे से यह समस्या नहीं सुलझाई जा सकती । खाप पंचायतें सामाजिक ताने-बाने को बरकरार रखने के लिए फैसले करती हैं, उनका किसी व्यक्ति या परिवार से कोई बैर नहीं है ।

अब यह मत कहना कि शहरों में तो एक ही मोहल्ले में कितने ही गोत्र वाले रहते हैं, उनमें ऐसा झगड़ा नहीं होता, फिर गांव में ऐसा क्यों नहीं है ?

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arvind1069
July 22nd, 2009, 08:42 AM
[काद्याण और गहलावत गोत्र में शादी तो हो सकती है क्योंकि ये दोनों अलग-अलग गोत्र हैं । पर मामला सिर्फ गोत्र का नहीं, उस गांव का भी है । ढ़राणा काद्याण गोत्र का गाँव है पर उस गांव में कुछ गहलावत गोत्र के परिवार भी हैं जो शायद बाद में वहां बस गए होंगे । इस नाते उस गांव में रहने वाले गहलावत परिवार में किसी काद्याण गोत्र की लड़की नहीं ब्याही जा सकती, उस गांव में रहने वाले गहलावत परिवारों को काद्याण गोत्र के साथ "भाईचारा" निभाना चाहिये । [/QUOTE]

पर लड़का लड़की तो अलग अलग गाँव से हैं,
मेरे गाँव मैं पुनिया, अन्टाल, मान गोत्र के जाट हैं, और मैं चहल हूँ , क्या मतलब ये हुआ की मैं इन गोत्र मैं विवाह नहीं कर सकता ? इसमें तो कोई logic नहीं है
खाप का व्यवहार इस मामले मैं मूर्खतापूरण है

dndeswal
July 22nd, 2009, 09:55 AM
पर लड़का लड़की तो अलग अलग गाँव से हैं,
मेरे गाँव मैं पुनिया, अन्टाल, मान गोत्र के जाट हैं, और मैं चहल हूँ , क्या मतलब ये हुआ की मैं इन गोत्र मैं विवाह नहीं कर सकता ? इसमें तो कोई logic नहीं है
खाप का व्यवहार इस मामले मैं मूर्खतापूरण है

अलग-अलग गांवों से हैं तो क्या हुआ? एक काद्याण गांव की लड़की दूसरे काद्याण गांव की बहू कैसे हो सकती है?

हां, आप इन गोत्रों में विवाह तो कर सकते हैं, पर ऐसा करके आप उस गांव में रह सकते हैं या नहीं, इसका फैसला गांव वालों पर निर्भर करता है । अगर गांव में इस पर आपत्ति होती है तो खाप पंचायत बीच-बचाव करती है । गांव से बाहर शहर में रहना चाहो तो पंचायत को कोई मतलब नहीं ।

पंचायत एक आदमी से नहीं बनती, इसमें कम से कम पांच आदमी तो होते ही हैं । खाप पंचायत का फैसला तो सैंकड़ों आदमी करते हैं । एक आदमी का दिया हुआ फैसला मूर्खतापूर्ण हो सकता है, पर पंचायत का नहीं ।

.

jitendershooda
July 22nd, 2009, 10:13 AM
Jitu, I am not giving anyone clean chit. Don't you think it is a genuine question what the panchayat was doing when the marriage was being planned? Or did the families do this without inviting or telling anyone else in the village? I don't know the answer.

Another issue I see with this sort of bhaichara is its effects when people change villages or when villages become towns. Abhi sab teen gotra chhodte hain- apna, maan aur daadi ka. Kuchh log specific bhaichara maante hain. Dalal, deswal, maan aur sehwag bhaichara maante hain, jabki hamaare gaon mein yeh gotra nahin hai.

Very valid points Kapil, Ab Nani ka jaise nahi chodte waise hi ab Kae jegah Dadi ka bhi lene lage hein. I have heard that in some panchayat they have relaxed marriages in some bhaichara gotras also if they are not in that village. I had placed a matrimonial ad on JL for one of my friend and that time I have talks with a few who were ready to leave grand mothers gotr too.

So its time calling to relax the social rules so that more and more people are willing to follow and what I feel is things are happening and they needs to be paced to solve/discuss prehand and somewhere according to the law and if required they can go ahead and have some state article added to defend logical social norms like marriage in same village and gotr which is now allowed by our law.

Par agar kal ko hamaare gaon mein 4 naye gotra aa jaayenge, to fir woh bhi maanne lagenge?

Kae gaon hein aise bhi .... unmein ye hota hai ki jo wahan aake base hein wo log us gaon ke gotr ki nahi byahte but that village gotr can take rista of the incomers gotr. Its practical thing that now-a-days due to land acquirement people reach different villages and get settled. So it will be very hard to leave all of them.

Aur jin logon ki shaadi pehle hi un gotron mein ho rakhi hain, unka kya hoga?

No issues then ... bataeu bhi dekhe hein baste apne sasuradiya ki jameen mein je chore na hon te

Aise gaon hain, jahaan log idhar udhar se zameen khareed ke base hain- jaise ki kalanaur. Isi tarah to shahar ke ek mohalle mein 10 gotra mil jaayenge, to sabka bhaichara ho jaayega?

Not at all. Haan these things should be discussed if only not marrying within the same village can be implemented looking at the size of village. If it is like kalanaur then its kasba and it will be hard to prevent even within same kasba. As you put forward one of our JL members itself was in love with their village/kasba girl and they married recently (silently); the boy family was not from that village basically but took land there. Now living happily in city.

Bhaichara makes sense when it comes from a common ancestry, and not because of people settling at new places.

You are right bhai. And I feel in most of the cases even panchayats have maintained the same logic. Like in gochi ... Small number of Hooda's and Ahlawat are there .... here also they have some understanding of what they can leave and what not.

Just to be clear, mujhe nahin pata ki kadian aur gahlawats ke bhaichare ka kya kaaran hai.

I think there is no global bhaichara in these two gotras but because they are living in the same village for many decades, Any one from that village or area can clear the scene whether the Gahlawats are some bateau's/Chori's aulad or what. And it is reasonable to have this bhaichara if the Gahlawats are decendents of some Kadian's Daughter who have come to that village in past being no brother to the lady.

Shayad bahut time se yeh maante hon. I am making a general point.

Kapil,

I also dont know whether the boys family did it silently or they invited the villagers in their marriage and barat. But looking at the scene it seems that boy's marriage happened silently and villagers came to know about this later on as they are claiming that boy is residing with his sister for 15-20 years and he has been adopted by her. So looking at the boy's family backfoot reasonings it seems they hiden facts from villagers. Rest any member from that area can bring some light.

I have watching news and the boys family has left village though they are said to have gone to look some ill relative.

anilsangwan
July 22nd, 2009, 10:34 AM
पंचायत के ये मौजिज आदमी जो समाज के ठेकेदार बन के दिखाया करें ... इन में तें बहुत से तो वोह होया करें जिन की अपने घर में इ कोए बूझ न होती हो.... टेम पे रोटी न मिल्या करे वोह....
एर फेर पंचायत में बैठ की... मूछा पे मरोड़ी लगा की ये पंचाती उस आदमी ने दबाया करे अपने फैसले तें ...जो थोडा सा कमजोर हो.... ठाडा आदमी तो इनके मुँह पे मारे..... बोदे आदमी ने दबावन का फैसला कर की ये पंचायती अपने आप में बहुत बड़ी उपलब्धि मान्य करें..... फेर न्यू क्या करें आक मेंने फलानी पंचायत का फैसला करवाया....

नहीं तो इसे भी लोग सें जिन ने अपनी "सीधी रिश्तेदारी" में इ ब्याह कर लिया ........जो की सामाजिक तौर पे मान्य नहीं हो सकता ............. लेकिन वोह powerful एर politically active लोग सें ... उन तें कुछ भी कह्वन की हिम्मत न होती इन पंचायतिया में...बेरा स आक घिट्वे में लठ दे देगा....आर बाहर क्यों जाओ.... कादियान में इ देख ल्यो इसे उदाहरण .... ...

avesh
July 22nd, 2009, 10:59 AM
पीड़ित परिवारों ने छोड़ा गांव (http://in.jagran.yahoo.com/news/local/haryana/4_6_5641973.html)


ढराणा गोत्र विवाद मामले में आज आखिरकार कादियान बारहा खाप ने एक बार प्रशासन, कानून व देश के संविधान को ठेगा दिखा दिया। परम्परा व खाप के सम्मान के नाम पर खाप ने सुनाए अपने तुगलकी फरमान को एक बार लागू करने की जिद पूरी कर ली है। इसे प्रशासन का दबाव कहा जाए या खाप का दबाव कि पीड़ित परिवार अपने गांव छोड़ने का कारण अपनी मर्जी से किसी रिश्तेदारी में हालचाल पूछने के लिए जाना बता रहा है। कुछ इसी तरह का बयान कार्यकारी जिला उपायुक्त डॉ. साकेत कुमार ने भी दिया है। उनके अनुसार भी पीड़ित परिवार अपनी किसी रिश्तेदारी में किसी बीमार का हालचाल पूछने के लिए गए है और उन्हे पूरी पुलिस सुरक्षा दी हुई है। मामले का पटाक्षेप लगभग हो गया है, जिसे बुधवार को अमलीजामा पहना दिया जाएगा। आज खाप के दबाव के आगे झुकते हुए ढराणा के पूर्व सरपंच रिसाल सिंह व उनके बेटों रोहतास, वेदप्रकाश व नसीब सिंह ने परिवार सहित गांव छोड़ने का निर्णय ले लिया। खाप के सम्मान को बचाने की खातिर एक रात के लिए गांव छोड़ने के निर्णय के बाद पूरे परिवार को पुलिस सुरक्षा के बीच उनकी रिश्तेदारी में ले जाया गया। जहां झज्जार थाना प्रभारी एम.हुसैन व सीआईए निरीक्षक सतपाल सिंह की देखरेख में पुलिस टीम उनकी सुरक्षा में तैनात है। सूत्रों के अनुसार समझौते के तहत बुधवार को पीड़ित परिवार की ओर से मामले पर पुनर्विचार की अपील की जाएगी। जिसके बाद गांव दूबलधन में दोनों पक्षों की बैठक कर रिसाल सिंह व उसके पुत्रों के परिवारों को गांव में आबाद रहने की इजाजत खाप की ओर से दे दी जाएगी, लेकिन गोत्र विवाद का कारण बने रविन्द्र व शिल्पा का आजीवन गांव में प्रवेश निषेध कर दिया जाएगा। आज चले घटनाक्रम के अनुसार गांव के राजकीय उच्च विद्यालय में धरना दे रहे कादियान खाप के लोगों की पंचायत का आयोजन किया गया। इस दौरान रोहतक रेज के आई.जी वी.कामराजा भी गांव में ही लगभग ढाई घंटे तक मौजूद रहे और सुरक्षा व्यवस्था का जायजा लेते हुए मौके पर मौजूद पुलिस अधिकारियों को दिशा निर्देश दिए। पंचायत में खाप से जुड़े वरिष्ठ कांग्रेसी नेता बलवंत बेरी, ढराणा के सरपंच जयबीर सिंह, चिमनी के पूर्व सरपंच हरिसिंह व कुलदीप बेरी ने पीड़ित परिवार से मामले को लेकर बातचीत करने की अपील की। जिसकी मंजूरी मिलने के बाद चारों व्यक्तियों ने पीड़ित परिवार के लोगों से बातचीत कर मामले का समाधान करने में सहयोग की अपील की। पीड़ित परिवार से मिलकर आने के बाद चारों व्यक्तियों ने पंचायत में बताया कि रिसाल सिंह व उसके परिवार ने गांव छोड़ने के फरमान को मान लिया है। वहीं दूसरी ओर पीड़ित परिवारों के सदस्य रोहतास व नसीब सिंह ने बताया कि मामले को लेकर बुधवार को गांव दूबलधन में दोनों पक्षों की बैठक की जाएगी जिसमें ही कोई निर्णय लिया जा सकेगा। उन्होंने बताया कि वे इस बैठक के निर्णय को स्वीकार करने के लिए तैयार है। परिवार सहित गांव छोड़ने का कारण पूछे जाने पर उन्होंने बताया कि वे अपने किसी रिश्तेदार के बीमार होने पर उसका हालचाल जानने के लिए जा रहे है। कुछ ऐसा ही बयान प्रशासन के अधिकारियों ने भी दिया है। लेकिन मामले से पूरी तरह स्पष्ट है कि पेचीदा होते मामले को अंजाम तक पहुंचाने के लिए प्रशासन भी जुट गया था और इसी कड़ी में खाप की इज्जात की दुहाई देते हुए पूरे परिवार को एक बार गांव छोड़ने के लिए राजी कर लिया गया है। फिलहाल नजरे बुधवार की बैठक पर टिकी है, जिसमें मामले का पटाक्षेप होने की पूरी संभावना है। वहीं दूसरी ओर गांव में मौजूद भारी पुलिस बल में आज सायं पीड़ित परिवारों के गांव छोड़ने के बाद काफी कटौती कर दी गई। हालांकि सुरक्षा की दृष्टि से पीड़ित परिवारों के मकान के आसपास अब भी काफी संख्या में पुलिसकर्मी मौजूद थे।

vikasgahlot
July 22nd, 2009, 02:32 PM
[QUOTE=dndeswal; 217923]
With reference to your thread, i totally agree with you that bhaichara must be maintained by the villagers living a village of different gortas. This social norm must be followed by all the gotras strictly. But bhaichara was destroyed by kadiyans of dharana village, because, they have already married their daughter in gahlawat gorta in village talao (district jhajjar), as stated by gahlawat's of dharana village in a news channel. Perhaps this fact is not in your knowledge. Now panchyat is doing totally injustice with gahlawat family of the dharana village being in minority. That’s totally unconsitutional according to social and legal norms.

vikasgahlot
July 22nd, 2009, 02:34 PM
[QUOTE=dndeswal;217939]
[QUOTE=dndeswal; 217923]
With reference to your thread, i totally agree with you that bhaichara must be maintained by the villagers living a village of different gortas. This social norm must be followed by all the gotras strictly. But bhaichara was destroyed by kadiyans of dharana village, because, they have already married their daughter in gahlawat gorta in village talao (district jhajjar), as stated by gahlawat's of dharana village in a news channel. Perhaps this fact is not in your knowledge. Now panchyat is doing totally injustice with gahlawat family of the dharana village being in minority. That’s totally unconsitutional according to social and legal norms.

rajesh00
July 22nd, 2009, 03:54 PM
This is most unfortunate thing.Gahlawat pariwar ko Kadian gotra ki izzat ka dhyan rakhte huwe iss shadi se parhez karna chahiye tha.Agar issi trah saari samajik manaytaon ka gala ghontt diya tou ek din Behen-bhai bhi shadi karne lag jyainge....aur wo sithhati baddi dukhdai hogi.Free for all culture agar panapti hei tou VYABHICHAAR tou badhhega hi.I do not know whether we can stop this for long but it is bad.Jahan maryada nahi wahan sharam nahi aur jahan sharam nahin waha shanti nahi.

rajesh00
July 22nd, 2009, 03:55 PM
[QUOTE=dndeswal;217939]
[QUOTE=dndeswal; 217923]
With reference to your thread, i totally agree with you that bhaichara must be maintained by the villagers living a village of different gortas. This social norm must be followed by all the gotras strictly. But bhaichara was destroyed by kadiyans of dharana village, because, they have already married their daughter in gahlawat gorta in village talao (district jhajjar), as stated by gahlawat's of dharana village in a news channel. Perhaps this fact is not in your knowledge.Now panchyat is doing totally injustice with gahlawat family of the dharana village being in minority. That’s totally unconsitutional according to social and legal norms.


Vikas ji,

Sab kuchh constitution se nahi chalta bhai.

malikdeepak1
July 22nd, 2009, 04:53 PM
Bhai sab kuch aapki vichardhaara k upar nirbhar karta h.
kuch Padhe likhe log aaj bhi in sab baaton ko support karte h or kuch inka virodh karte h. jaisa ki vikasji ne kaha ki kadiyano ne gahlot me ladki byah rakhi h to unko ab bolne ka haq nahi banta.. Kuch log aapko har gaon me mil jayenge jo apni thothi rajneethi chamkaane k liye baki logo ko uksaate rahte h.

dahiya1683
July 22nd, 2009, 05:50 PM
क्या "law & order" यानि नये-नये कानून बनाते वक्त सरकार को भी समझदारी से काम नहीं लेना चाहिये ? सामाजिक मामलों में सरकारें काफी दखलंदाजी कर रही हैं और इससे गावों में सामाजिक समस्यायें पैदा हो रही हैं । बहुत पहले हरयाणा में कानून बना दिया गया था जिसके मुताबिक लड़की को पिता की सम्पत्ति में बराबर हिस्सा मिलता है । अगर किसी के पास लड़का नहीं है तो उसके मरने की बाद जायदाद लड़की को मिल जाती है । वह ब्याही लड़की दूसरे गांव से अपने पति और बाल बच्चों के साथ अपने पिता के गांव में रहने लगती है । इसलिए आजकल एक-एक गांव में कई-कई गोत्र हो गए हैं जबकि पहले एक-दो गोत्र ही होते थे । सरकारें नए-नए कानून तो पास कर देती हैं पर उनके लागू होने पर कितनी सामाजिक समस्यायें पैदा होंगी, इस पर कोई ध्यान नहीं देता ।

काद्याण और गहलावत गोत्र में शादी तो हो सकती है क्योंकि ये दोनों अलग-अलग गोत्र हैं । पर मामला सिर्फ गोत्र का नहीं, उस गांव का भी है । ढ़राणा काद्याण गोत्र का गाँव है पर उस गांव में कुछ गहलावत गोत्र के परिवार भी हैं जो शायद बाद में वहां बस गए होंगे । इस नाते उस गांव में रहने वाले गहलावत परिवार में किसी काद्याण गोत्र की लड़की नहीं ब्याही जा सकती, उस गांव में रहने वाले गहलावत परिवारों को काद्याण गोत्र के साथ "भाईचारा" निभाना चाहिये । अगर ऐसा रिश्ता हो जाये तो, पंचायत के नियमानुसार, इसका एक ही तरीका है कि वह परिवार उस गांव को छोड़कर कहीं और रहने लग जाये । काद्याण पंचायत ने भी यही फैसला किया है । पर आजकल घर और जमीन को छोड़कर कौन जाना चाहता है ? यही हो रहा है । सिर्फ पुलिस के डंडे से यह समस्या नहीं सुलझाई जा सकती । खाप पंचायतें सामाजिक ताने-बाने को बरकरार रखने के लिए फैसले करती हैं, उनका किसी व्यक्ति या परिवार से कोई बैर नहीं है ।

अब यह मत कहना कि शहरों में तो एक ही मोहल्ले में कितने ही गोत्र वाले रहते हैं, उनमें ऐसा झगड़ा नहीं होता, फिर गांव में ऐसा क्यों नहीं है ?

.






Thanks for updating me Uncle Ji... Is tarah ke samajik vivad panchayto me hi niptaye ja sakte hain.... But media unnecessarypanchayto ko badnaam bhi kar deta hai... Jaise is mamle me media ka kahna hai ki panchayto ka tanashahi or talibani faisla.... But yahan to mamla court or panchayat ke beech vivad ka aa gaya hai... Beacuse court is marriage ko approval deta hai....

vikasgahlot
July 22nd, 2009, 07:07 PM
[QUOTE=rajesh00;217977][QUOTE=vikasgahlot;217969][QUOTE=dndeswal;217939]



Vikas ji,

Sab kuchh constitution se nahi chalta bhai.




dear sir i totally agree with you.Sab kuchh constitution se nahi chalta bhai. par bhaichara pehle kadiyana gotra ke logo ne he toda hai. unhone saari samajik manaytaon ka gala ghontte hue pehle apni ladki ki shadi gahlawat gorta main village talao (district jhajjar) mai ki thi.jo ki samajik maryadao ka ulanghan tha. wo ladki jo talao gaon mai bhayi gayi hai wo gahlawato ko tau, chaha kahe gi ya dewar, jeth ka nata le gi. ab is bare mai apni pratikriya awash de.apna shayad mera poora artical nahi padha. please use dhyanporvak doobara se padhe. aur phir jawab de. abhi gahlawat gotra sirf ghatiya politics ka shikar hai. jiski lathi uski bhans. kyoki wo parivar wahan minority main hai. aur kadiyan majority main. hinsa ka rasta tayag kar uska shanti se niptara ho sakta hai.

Samarkadian
July 23rd, 2009, 10:12 AM
Old adage , What comes around goes around, seems to be true in this incident. A couple of years back Gehlot Khap was instrumental in illfamous case of declairing Aashish-Darshna as Brother and Sister even after a kid was born out of their marriage. It was an incident of Vill- Joundhi( Distt. Jhajjar). This time they are victim. No matter who wins out of these Gotra rows two souls somewhere are always at loosing end.

All through the thread various members have discussed it very well. Kapil, Jitender, Deswal ji have given important points.It was not the first one and sadly, not the last one. Its not the injustice which pains but infact the justice done. One family has left the village but it has left few questions for all of us to think, feel, realise and look inside.

I would like to reproduce the questions raised in the first post for a healthy and smooth discussion.

Few questions:- 1. Is it the fault of a common [jat] man to be unaware of the ''bhaichara'' among Gotras? How it could be streamlined from the Khap leadership.

2. If such case arises, is there any supreme body to handle these matters in clear and concise manner? If not, then how n when it would be formed?

3.Functionality of Khap system, Why, often is significant to Marriage Gotra row instead of other social upliftment issues? What could be done and most importantly, How?

4.Senior members of the site or historians can tell us about the frequent occurance of such incidents. What was the frequency in their times like 2-3 decades back? Why these are frequent in last one decade?

arvind1069
July 23rd, 2009, 01:00 PM
what is the basis and authenticity of khaap system.
is it according to vedas or manu smriti or any other hindu religious scripture?
if not then they should be declared antisocial. they have no right to decide who is going to live in the village or not.

ravinderjeet
July 23rd, 2009, 03:19 PM
arvind ji this khaap system is only in jats and it is the oldest form of democarecy in this world.khaap leads to elect gana and gana leads to elect ganapati for 5 years(ganpati was equal to maharaja).i request JL members to study more about our social taanaa baanaa and riti rivaaj.you will find scintific reason behind that.and thease tradations are thousends of years old.we must claim that democarecy was started by jats.panchyaayt soch samaj ker uchit faislaa legi.i suggested some points in this thread earlier also.
:rockkaanoon se smaaj nahi bantaa, smaaj kaanoon banaata hey.

rakeshsehrawat
July 23rd, 2009, 03:30 PM
पंचायत के ये मौजिज आदमी जो समाज के ठेकेदार बन के दिखाया करें ... इन में तें बहुत से तो वोह होया करें जिन की अपने घर में इ कोए बूझ न होती हो.... टेम पे रोटी न मिल्या करे वोह....
एर फेर पंचायत में बैठ की... मूछा पे मरोड़ी लगा की ये पंचाती उस आदमी ने दबाया करे अपने फैसले तें ...जो थोडा सा कमजोर हो.... ठाडा आदमी तो इनके मुँह पे मारे..... बोदे आदमी ने दबावन का फैसला कर की ये पंचायती अपने आप में बहुत बड़ी उपलब्धि मान्य करें..... फेर न्यू क्या करें आक मेंने फलानी पंचायत का फैसला करवाया....

नहीं तो इसे भी लोग सें जिन ने अपनी "सीधी रिश्तेदारी" में इ ब्याह कर लिया ........जो की सामाजिक तौर पे मान्य नहीं हो सकता ............. लेकिन वोह powerful एर politically active लोग सें ... उन तें कुछ भी कह्वन की हिम्मत न होती इन पंचायतिया में...बेरा स आक घिट्वे में लठ दे देगा....आर बाहर क्यों जाओ.... कादियान में इ देख ल्यो इसे उदाहरण .... ...

अनिल जी आप झोझू से ही हैं और झोझू हरियाणा में ही है आप अगर गाँव के विषय में कुछ जानते तो सायद ऐसा नहीं कहते !
पंचायत के फैंसले गलत नहीं होते अगर आपको लगता है की पंचायत गलत फैंसला करती है तो मेरी आपसे गुजारिश है की एक बार पंचायत में जरूर बैठें ! पंचायत में झूठ बोलने की जगह नहीं होती और ना ही वहां आमिर गरीब का फरक होता है ! मुझे कई बार हैरानी होती है की पंचायत के खिलाफ बोलने वाले वो होते हैं जिन्हें ना ही पंचायत की कार्य प्रणाली पता है ना ही ये ज्ञान है की सर्वखाप पंचायत के सदस्य कौन हैं ! आपके ज्ञान के लिए बता देता हूँ की सर्वखाप के सदस्य आज़ादी के पहले से चुने हुए हैं वो लोग शायद आज किसी पद जैसे पञ्च सरपंच पे ना बैठे हों या कोई बहुत बड़ी हस्ती ना हों ! पर समाज में वो लोग भले लोगो में गिने जाते हैं ! दूसरी बात पंचायत में किसी को बोलने से मना नहीं किया जाता और वहां लिया गया फैंसला एक आदमी का नहीं होता सब मिलके सच्चाई जान कर ही फैंसला लेते हैं ! गाँव में अगर दो मुख्य गोत्र हैं तो एक गोत्र वाले को दुसरे का गोत्र छोड़ना होता है ! ये कानून आज नहीं बना है क्योंकि अगर उस गाँव का इतिहास उठा के देखे तो या तो एक गोत्र वाले ने दुसरे को शरण दी है या दोनों ने मिलके वो गाँव बसाया है ! उसे ही भाईचारा बोला जाता है ! अगर आप कभी गाँव से किसी दुसरे गाँव में बारात में गए हो तो आपने भी अपने गाँव की उस गाँव में बियाही गयी लड़कियों के घर जाके उने पैसे दिए होंगे ! उस समय आप सिर्फ आपने गाँव की लड़किया देखते हैं ना की वो किस गोत्र परिवार या जाती से है ! भाईचारा धीरे धीरे ख़तम होता जा रहा है और में जाटलैंड को उसी भाईचारे को बनाये रखने की पहल मानता हूँ ! बाकी आपकी अपनी सोच है लेकिन मेरी एक ही गुजारिश है की पंचायत के फैंसले पर उंगली उठाने से पहले एक बार उसमे जा के देखे की वो क्या है ! और पंचायत की ताकत क्या है ये आप कंडेला और महम में देख चुके हैं !

anilsangwan
July 23rd, 2009, 04:13 PM
ओ भाई मेरे....... डट माडा सा... घणा बड़ा पैरा लिख गया तू तावल में...

भाई ... में भाईचारे आली बात तें बिलकुल सहमत सु.... और अच्छी तरह आर गाम में रह क पढ़या सु . अच्छी तरह से समझता हूँ की जिस गाम में २ गोत्र हो क्यूकर आर किस ढाल की आंट लाग्या करें..... लेकिन इसका मतलब ये नहीं की कुछ लोग अपनी राजनीति के चक्कर में किसी क परिवार ने उजाड़ दयो..... और भी घने इ रास्ते हों सें .... .... उनके घर आलयं की सोच... खेती करण के रहे न .... के करेंगे... एर क कमावेन्गे ..... गाम छोड़ना इतना आसन न होता.....सिर्फ छोरा छोरी ने गाम तें काढ देते..... जिब वो छोरा छोरी गाम में न रहते तो अपने आप मुद्दा ख़तम था.... लेकिन फेर एक केस के चक्कर में आगे तक की नसीयत ने पक्की लकीर बनावन क्कर में हों सें...
आर या बात तो मान ले .... गरीब आर कमजोर आदमी क लठ दिया करे या पँचात.... तेने झोझू का नाम लिया स न.... ले एक दो उद्दाहरण दे दयून तेने मेरे.... गाम क... जमा साचे किसी ने बूझ लिए
१. . .. गाम के एक ठाडे नमबरदार का घर स्कूल क धोरे स..... उस का एक छोरा अपना घर चिनन लाग रा था.. स्कूल की जमीन भी अपने घर में मिला ली ...... गाम के मौजिज लोगा ने बेर पाट्या..... एकठे हो क उसके घर की और चाल पडे.... छोरे ने दूर तें इ देख लिए आक ५-७ खंडवे आले बाधू आवें सें.... ईंट का खोरा ठा की बोल्या .... कोए भी आ जागा पंचाती तो माथे में खोरा टांग दयूनगा ..... सारे उल्टे.... आर आज तक उसका घर स्कूल की ज़मीन पे स .... किसी ने चूँ भी न करी..... नहीं तो कोए आम आदमी होता आर गलती तें भी वोह स्कूल की जगह में एक दो फुट फालतू चिन लेता तो उसके लठ दे देते ये पंचाती...
२. दूसरा किस्सा ले... मेरे इ गाम का..... एक आदमी था शराबी ... मर गया.... छोटे छोटे बालक छोड़ की.... दो साल पाछे घर आली भी राम ने प्यारी हुयी...... छोरा था १५-१६ साल का...... गाम के ठाडे लोगा ने भुला लिया .... एर सात सौ रुपये दे की उसकी ज़मीन के सात प्लाट अपने नाम करवा लिए..... एक एक प्लाट होगा पांच सात लाख का....... गाम ने रोला मचाया ... पँचात हुयी.... बेर स पहली बात के कही गाम क मौजिज आदमी ने ? ..... आक भाई इनकी तो रजिस्ट्री हो री स.... कुछ न हो सकता ..... बेरा था आक यो बालक क कर सके स .....हो गया फैसला .. गए प्लाट !
तो भाई... हो सके स की सारी पँचात एक जीसी न हो.... आर सारे पंचाती एक से ना हों.... पर मेरा अनुभव इसा इ रह्या स...... मेने यह पंचाती खूब फद्दु पाटते देखे सें ...... इस कदियन गहलोत आले मामले में संतुलित फैसला तो यही होता जो और मेम्बेर्स ने सुझाया है.... छोरे ने आवन पे पाबंधी लगा देते.... घर आले भी उज्जड क्यों कर दिए....


अनिल जी आप झोझू से ही हैं और झोझू हरियाणा में ही है आप अगर गाँव के विषय में कुछ जानते तो सायद ऐसा नहीं कहते !

brainspeak
July 23rd, 2009, 04:30 PM
arvind ji this khaap system is only in jats and it is the oldest form of democarecy in this world.khaap leads to elect gana and gana leads to elect ganapati for 5 years(ganpati was equal to maharaja).i request JL members to study more about our social taanaa baanaa and riti rivaaj.you will find scintific reason behind that.and thease tradations are thousends of years old.we must claim that democarecy was started by jats.panchyaayt soch samaj ker uchit faislaa legi.i suggested some points in this thread earlier also.
:rockkaanoon se smaaj nahi bantaa, smaaj kaanoon banaata hey.


ravinder ji aapke anusar parjatantra jaton ki den hai...iss mudee pe kafi bahash ki ja sakti hai lekin phir bhi mein aapki baat mann leta hun...aapne jo doosre pehlu saamne rakhe hain woh bhi kafi santulit hain....lekin mera sirf ek hi sawal hai ki yeh khap/khap-panchayat tabhi kyun active hoti hain jab koi shadi ek hi gotra/bhaichaara mein ho jati hai??...baaki samay mein yeh log kya karte hain??..kya ho chuki shadi tudwana hi khap ka ekmatra lakshya rah gaya hai??...

aapke anusar khap ki suruat isliye hui kyunki log saamajik roop se surakshit rahein, samaj mein anusashan bana rahe aur arajakta na faile...aur pehle sayad khap yeh kaam karti bhi thi....lekin aaj ke smaya mein jab itni saamajik buraiyaan jaise - dahej pratha, sharaabkhori, nasili dawaon ka sevan aadi ; aarthik samasyan - lagatar ghati kheti ki paidawar, badti mehngai, shikhsha ka abhav aur shikshit yuvkon ko naukri ki kami...ityadi...

kya kisi khap ne inmein se kisi ek bhi cheez ke liye apni awaz buland ki hai?? bilkul nahin!!...aur iska karan hai in buraiyon ko khatam karna ek kranti lane ke barabar hai aur usmein lagta hai jor!!!..jor koi laga ke razi hai nahin...kinhi 2 parivaron ko ujadne mein kya jata hai...poora gaam gher ke khada ho jao...darke maare woh bechare apne aap chale jayenge...kahan ki bahaduri hai aur kya iska natiza nikla??

suruat ho sakta hai vyagyanik sidhantonn ke basis pe ki gaye ho...kintu aaj ki jo prasthiyaan hain usmein khap system na hi to vyagyanik hai,na hi samvadhanik hai aur na hi prajatantra ko aage badata hai...

sanjaymalik
July 23rd, 2009, 04:40 PM
arvind ji this khaap system is only in jats and it is the oldest form of democarecy in this world.khaap leads to elect gana and gana leads to elect ganapati for 5 years(ganpati was equal to maharaja).i request JL members to study more about our social taanaa baanaa and riti rivaaj.you will find scintific reason behind that.and thease tradations are thousends of years old.we must claim that democarecy was started by jats.panchyaayt soch samaj ker uchit faislaa legi.i suggested some points in this thread earlier also.
:rockkaanoon se smaaj nahi bantaa, smaaj kaanoon banaata hey.

Hi,
this is very much right but to some extent although i am agree that 'kaanoon se smaaj nahi bantaa, smaaj kaanoon banaata hey" but is not neccessay that panchayat always take right decision with rational and resaoning as in a no. of cases panchayat has taken very reduculous decision like the case of Jondhi village when Panchayat asked to became brother & sister to a husband and wife. Although it is neccessary that there should be mutual under standing between the resident of a village of different gotra not to marry within that gotra but if incidently done then punishment should not be so harras.

malikdeepak1
July 23rd, 2009, 04:47 PM
Kuldeep ji aapne ekdum sahi vichar prastut kiye hai. Panchayat logon k liye hoti h na ki log panchayat k liye. Bhiachara agar tuta h to us ladke ko gaon me mat aan do. uske maa-baap k b kyu lath maro ho. Or ye baat bilkul sahi baith-ti aaj k time ki "jiski lathi uski bhains".. Aaj k time me koi panchayat nahi rah li jisme kuch prabhutav sampan logo ka ek-adhikar na ho. Log panch-sarpanch chunte h par unko hi jinse wo darte h. Bhtere sarpanch dekhe h humne b jo gaon k vikas k liye aayi rakam ko apne ghar-kunbe me istemaal kar gaye. Asli kaam ho h panchayt ka Gaon ka VIKAS. Par aaj kal sab apni ochi rajneeti chamkaan me laag rhe h.

rakeshsehrawat
July 23rd, 2009, 04:54 PM
Old adage , What comes around goes around, seems to be true in this incident. A couple of years back Gehlot Khap was instrumental in illfamous case of declairing Aashish-Darshna as Brother and Sister even after a kid was born out of their marriage. It was an incident of Vill- Joundhi( Distt. Jhajjar). This time they are victim. No matter who wins out of these Gotra rows two souls somewhere are always at loosing end.

All through the thread various members have discussed it very well. Kapil, Jitender, Deswal ji have given important points.It was not the first one and sadly, not the last one. Its not the injustice which pains but infact the justice done. One family has left the village but it has left few questions for all of us to think, feel, realise and look inside.

I would like to reproduce the questions raised in the first post for a healthy and smooth discussion.

Few questions:- 1. Is it the fault of a common [jat] man to be unaware of the ''bhaichara'' among Gotras? How it could be streamlined from the Khap leadership.

2. If such case arises, is there any supreme body to handle these matters in clear and concise manner? If not, then how n when it would be formed?

3.Functionality of Khap system, Why, often is significant to Marriage Gotra row instead of other social upliftment issues? What could be done and most importantly, How?

4.Senior members of the site or historians can tell us about the frequent occurance of such incidents. What was the frequency in their times like 2-3 decades back? Why these are frequent in last one decade?

Samar jab guthi seedhe tarike se na sulajhti ho to reverse engineering karni chahiye
tere last sawal ka jawab
Pehle log barat le ke biyahne jaate the doosre gaon mein jake budhe there apne purane ristedaro se milte ya apne purane dosto se (fauji bhaichara)
unse un logo ki aachi dosti hoti aur wahan aisi baatein khul ke samne aa jati thee. aaj log chand paise bachane ke chakkar mein barat nahi le jate mein nahi kehta ki le ke jao balki ye ek aacha system hai lekin log apne parivar ya bujurgo se rista karne se pehle salah bhi nahi karte. log sochte hain ki koi bhanji na maar de isliye chunni odha ke lana ya god mein biyah ka system chalu ho gaya. so is tarah ke cases bhi frequent ho gaye

Gaon ki panchayat ne saadi mein DJ bajana daru par rok jaise nirnay liye hain kuch gaon ki panchayat majboot na hone ki wajah se abhi bhi dj wagarah pe partibandh nahi hai. Ye panchayat hi hai jisne sadiyo se widhwa vivah ko haryana mein manyata de rakhi hai.(palle lana hope you got it) recently also panchayat is trying for jat reservation (ib poonch pakad ke na baith jaiye jahan discuss karna hai wahin karenge)

Sarvakhap panchayat supreme body hai agar gotra ki panchayat ka fainsla galat lagta hai to aadmi sarvakhap panchayat ko fainsle ke liye amantrit kar sakta hai aur apni baat uske aage rakh sakta hai.

Agar aadmi ko apne gaon ke gotra bhi nahi pata to use gaon chod dena chahiye. Saadi biyah mein bujurgo se salah lete waqt ye dailog kaise yaad aa jata hai pada rehan de ne budhe ne isne ke bera hai. Saadi mein ghar parivar(kunbe) ke 5-7 budhe bitha ke pooch lena chahiye ki kya falane gaon ya gotra mein saadi kar sakte hain. Us time to log ye sochte hain ki humse samajhdar koi nahi hai samne walo ne motorcycle dene ki baat kahi hai agar barat ka kharcha nahi karwaya to . baad mein bhugatne ke liye guhandi aayenge kya.

lage hatho anil ji ke sawal ka jawab bhi
anil ji aapki panchayat kamjor hai to aapko hak nahi mil jata khap aur sarvakhap panchayat ko kamjor kehne ka.
agar sarvakhap ka jat arakshan ka mamla sulajh gaya to sayad aapko bhi panchayat ki takat ka andaja ho jaye
dhanyawad

anilsangwan
July 23rd, 2009, 04:57 PM
Samar jab guthi seedhe tarike se na sulajhti ho to reverse engineering karni chahiye
tere last sawal ka jawab
Pehle log barat le ke biyahne jaate the doosre gaon mein jake budhe there apne purane ristedaro se milte ya apne purane dosto se (fauji bhaichara)
unse un logo ki aachi dosti hoti aur wahan aisi baatein khul ke samne aa jati thee. aaj log chand paise bachane ke chakkar mein barat nahi le jate mein nahi kehta ki le ke jao balki ye ek aacha system hai lekin log apne parivar ya bujurgo se rista karne se pehle salah bhi nahi karte. log sochte hain ki koi bhanji na maar de isliye chunni odha ke lana ya god mein biyah ka system chalu ho gaya. so is tarah ke cases bhi frequent ho gaye

Gaon ki panchayat ne saadi mein DJ bajana daru par rok jaise nirnay liye hain kuch gaon ki panchayat majboot na hone ki wajah se abhi bhi dj wagarah pe partibandh nahi hai. Ye panchayat hi hai jisne sadiyo se widhwa vivah ko haryana mein manyata de rakhi hai.(palle lana hope you got it) recently also panchayat is trying for jat reservation (ib poonch pakad ke na baith jaiye jahan discuss karna hai wahin karenge)

Sarvakhap panchayat supreme body hai agar gotra ki panchayat ka fainsla galat lagta hai to aadmi sarvakhap panchayat ko fainsle ke liye amantrit kar sakta hai aur apni baat uske aage rakh sakta hai.

Agar aadmi ko apne gaon ke gotra bhi nahi pata to use gaon chod dena chahiye. Saadi biyah mein bujurgo se salah lete waqt ye dailog kaise yaad aa jata hai pada rehan de ne budhe ne isne ke bera hai. Saadi mein ghar parivar(kunbe) ke 5-7 budhe bitha ke pooch lena chahiye ki kya falane gaon ya gotra mein saadi kar sakte hain. Us time to log ye sochte hain ki humse samajhdar koi nahi hai samne walo ne motorcycle dene ki baat kahi hai agar barat ka kharcha nahi karwaya to . baad mein bhugatne ke liye guhandi aayenge kya.

lage hatho anil ji ke sawal ka jawab bhi
anil ji aapki panchayat kamjor hai to aapko hak nahi mil jata khap aur sarvakhap panchayat ko kamjor kehne ka.
agar sarvakhap ka jat arakshan ka mamla sulajh gaya to sayad aapko bhi panchayat ki takat ka andaja ho jaye
dhanyawad

Kaka menne kit kisey panchaati ki moochh paadi sein... mein to nyu e bataun sun aak jitney menne dekhey sein ...ghankharey fuddu laagey..... ghar tein faaltu ......... ho sake s mera tajurba isa e rahya ho....

Panchaayat ka vajood hai....aur hona bhi chahiye.... lekin fer panchaayaton ki aise fuddu pancho se bachakar bhi rakhna chahiye.....jaroori nahi ki har panchaayat ka faisla sahi ho.... kyunki kuchh aise log apne swarth ya fir jhoothi shaan ke liye galat faisley lete hain..........

arvind1069
July 24th, 2009, 08:56 AM
khaap gaon k vikaas par to dhyaan deti nahi, smajaik buraion ko door karti nahi. bas ek kaam karna aata hai inko aur vo hai logon ke ghar ujadna. actually ye sab belle log hai, jinke paas koi kaam dhaam nahi hai aur na hi koi inko bada shastriye gyaan hai. kehne ko jat arya samaj ki shikshaon main astha rakhte hai, par follow karte nahi. jo dusht paramparain inke purkhe chalate the, ye log unhi kurition ko aage badhane ka kaam kar rahe hai. jaruri nahi k har parampara theek ho. kuch paramparaon samay ki jaruraton k anusaar apne time main theek thi, par ab vo sardard ban chuki hai.
dahej prathe, female foeticide, gaon ki saaf safai, etc k baare main to kabhi ye khaap baat karte nahi. bas is se shadi na karo, us se shadi na karo, yehi aata hai in khapon ko. jahan zor chalta hai vahin chalate hai.

annch
July 24th, 2009, 09:18 AM
Man lynched as per directives of a khap panchayat...for marrying outside caste and in the neighbouring village....
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/NEWS/India/Man-lynched-for-marrying-outside-caste/articleshow/4814045.cms

avesh
July 24th, 2009, 09:22 AM
पीड़ित परिवारों द्वारा तीन दिन पूर्व गांव से पलायन किए जाने के बाद ढराणा गोत्र विवाद के मामले में अपने तुगलकी फरमान पर अमल होने का दावा करते हुए अपनी पीठ ठोंक रही कादियान बारहा खाप पीड़ित परिवारों को रियायत देने के मूड में नजर नहीं आ रही है। पीड़ित परिवारों द्वारा खाप के सामने गांव में बसने की इजाजत के लिए की गई अपील को लेकर वीरवार को हुई खाप की कार्यकारिणी की बैठक में अपीलनामे की भाषा पर एतराज जताते हुए उसे खारिज कर दिया। हालांकि मामले को लेकर बीच-बचाव का रास्ता तलाशने में जुटे लोगों ने पीड़ित परिवार को दो दिन में खाप को कुछ नरम फैसले पर मनाने का आश्वासन दिया है। वहीं दूसरी ओर नरवाना उपमंडल के गांव सिंहवाल में इसी तरह के मामले में ग्रामीणों द्वारा की गई युवक की हत्या के बाद जहां पीड़ित परिवार सहम सा गया है, वहीं प्रशासन भी पीड़ित परिवारों की सुरक्षा को लेकर पूरी तरह चौकन्ना हो गया है। दो दिन पूर्व पीड़ित परिवार के गांव पलायन के समय मिले सुलह संकेतों से कम हुए तनाव के बाद पीड़ित परिवार द्वारा हाईकोर्ट की शरण लिए जाने से मामले में एक बार फिर मोड़ आ गया है। हाईकोर्ट में मामला जाने के बाद जहां खाप से जुड़े लोगों ने आगामी रणनीति पर विचार विमर्श शुरू कर दिया है, वहीं अब तक कबीलाई संस्कृति जैसे फरमान सुनाने वाले लोगों को ढिलाई दे रहा प्रशासन भी मामले को लेकर रणनीति बनाने में जुट गया है। पीड़ित परिवारों की ओर से मामले को लेकर उन्हे माफी देने व रविन्द्र व शिल्पा के अलावा अन्य सदस्यों को गांव में बसने देने की इजाजत के लिए की गई अपील पर वीरवार को कैप्टन राज सिंह की अध्यक्षता में विवाद को लेकर बनाई गई कार्यकारिणी की हुई बैठक में एक मत से अपील को खारिज कर दिया गया। अपील के खारिज करने का कारण भाषा शैली को बताया गया है। कैप्टन राज सिंह के अनुसार अपील में खाप की ओर से शांति प्रस्ताव दिए जाने का जिक्र किया गया है, लेकिन खाप की ओर से किसी भी व्यक्ति ने इस प्रकार का कोई भी प्रस्ताव उन परिवारों के सामने नहीं रखा था। उन्होंने अपील खारिज करने का एक अन्य कारण रविन्द्र व शिल्पा की शादी को लेकर पूरी तरह गलती को स्वीकार नहीं करना भी बताया है। गांव दुजाना में पिछले तीन दिनों से अपने रिश्तेदार के घर पुलिस सुरक्षा में रहने को मजबूर पीड़ित परिवारों ने अपील खारिज किए जाने के बाद आखिरकार पूरी तरह कानून का सहारा लेने का निर्णय लिया है। पीड़ित परिवार के सदस्यों के अनुसार वे अब भी रविन्द्र व शिल्पा को ताउम्र गांव से बाहर रखने के फैसले को मानने के लिए तैयार हैं, बशर्ते खाप परिवार के अन्य लोगों को गांव में शांति से गुजर-बसर करने के लिए तैयार हो जाए। इसे खाप के लोगों के बहुमत को देखते हुए खाप का दबाव ही कहा जा सकता है कि पीड़ित परिवार अपने कलेजे के टुकड़े को पूरी जिंदगी अपने से दूर रखने के लिए भी सहमत है। लेकिन परम्पराओं के नाम पर रुढि़वादिता में जी रही खाप पंचायतें झुकने को तैयार नहीं दिखाई दे रही है।

Ambijat
July 24th, 2009, 04:07 PM
Yehoo! We have these Talibans here too! the Indian variant rolling their diktats. What a pride, one would seek from it.

vikasgahlot
July 24th, 2009, 04:55 PM
Today Shilpa & Ravinder were interviewed by zee news. Shilpa ne bataya ki gahlawat gotra ki 3 ladkiya dharana gaon main kadiyan ke ghar bahu banker aayi huin hain. Usne khap panchayat se poocha ki wo 3 ladkiya gahlawato ki bahu hongi ya betyia. Iske atirikt kadiyano ne bhi apni ladkiyo ki shadi gahlawato main kar rakhi hain. Panchayat ne 21000 hazar ka fine lagaya. Shilpa ne poocha kya wo 21000 hazar rupee lekar use apni bête se bahu maan lenge. Ravinder ne bataya ki ye sub kisi dr.raghubir kadiyan ke ishare par ho raha hain.

malikdeepak1
July 24th, 2009, 07:41 PM
Who is this guy?

Raghubir kadiyan ji jhajjar k kise halke ka MLA h (I think so. Correct me if I'm wrong)

vikasgahlot
July 24th, 2009, 09:15 PM
Raghubir kadiyan ji jhajjar k kise halke ka MLA h (I think so. Correct me if I'm wrong)
Raghubir kadiyan is speaker of haryana vidhan sabha. he is M.L.A from beri constituency( district jhajjar) of congress party. And village falls dharana is beri constituency

nitindev
July 25th, 2009, 08:48 AM
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/NEWS/India/Honour-over-love-Over-100-killed-every-yr/articleshow/4818395.cms

I am at the loss of words to express my grief, embarrassment and anger at such inhuman acts taking place in the heart of our very own “Jatland”. I question myself and the whole jat community that “are we really different from Taliban” when such inhuman acts are not rarity anymore in our community. Coming direct to the point I am wondering what can be done to discourage such abominable acts which are infesting our community. I can understand that there can be difference in opinions on the issue of same gotra marriage but I can safely assume that there cannot be any difference on the opinion that killings, harassment or any criminal act is not at all acceptable as the jat’s way of dealing with cultural issues. We are not Talibans and self imposed cultural policemen.

As Jats we are not to marry within our own gotras, and I believe that it is a personal choice to make. If we are to discourage such acts within our community then there can be better ways to deal with this rather than degrading our community. May be we can discourage such people by denying them the priviliges of being jats, perhaps an exile can we awarded to such people to stop them from setting such examples, but certainly disrespecting humanity cannot be even the last option. This is not the jats way. I would like to tell these pseudo jats that strength lies in restraining, not in reacting. I want to reach out to people and would like to counter this Talibanization and stop taking the law in our own hands in the name of religion and culture. I would really appreciate the opinions of people on how to stop this criminalization of Jat community. Shall we reach out to Panchayats or have public gatherings? I would also like to mention that this discussion should not be limited to debates or discussions alone, actions need to be taken and we need to take responsibility of this. I volunteer to compile the discussion on the matter and execute the plausible solutions.

richi
July 25th, 2009, 09:03 AM
VERY GOOD NITIN ..u wrote it well ..i too think that way, action that too a radical one is required now.I hv even found it very disgusting when instead of answering to the questions asked in a thread or simply replying to the topic in a disciplined way jatlanders start fighting with each other ,start to become brash ,try to show their supremacy over the other fellow jatlander , egos start clashing nd then participating in the discussions seem such a boredom !

Here ,by entering into discussions or replying we don't get any prolific outcome.It's like discussing in vain nd to no effect...

VJ
July 25th, 2009, 09:30 AM
Bhaisahab aapne ne sahi baat kahi sai....

Galti sab teh ho jaya kare.....arrr us chore nai bhi kari sai......parr galti kare pe jaan teh marna ya teh koi baat na sai.....

or bhi tarike the saza den ke.....gam teh likad dete......bahiskar kar dete.....or kuch kar dete ....par yu jaan teh marna yo katti galat tha.....



arrr is teh bhi bhundi baat or sun loooo....

akbhar me aa rahi sai.....is chore ki bahu.....jisne len tai yu gaya tha arrr mara gaya.....wa nu kawe sai.....mere tai neend ki goli khawa diya karta yooo.....arrr mai nashe me raha karti......arrr mainne kuch nahi beraa :mad:


ib ke kar sake........
bechara bhai.....muft me mara gaya........


par dekhe kad tai....nue howega....
galti pe saza milni chaiye ....maut na deni chaiye.....issa koi usne khoon na kara tha....

rakeshsehrawat
July 25th, 2009, 10:04 AM
Ek baat samajh nahi aati ki logo ko jato ke banaye gaye samaj aur uske kanoone se bahut tagdi allergy hai hum ye kyun kar rahe hain wo kyun kar rahe hain? koi pooche caste kya hai to seena fula ke kehte hain ki hum jat hain.
Jat apne kanoono ko man-ne wale mane jate hain. Azadi se pehle azadi ke baad faujiyo mein jato ki takkat ka loha mana jata hai. Ye sab isliye hai ki humare khoon mein purity hai . Gotra aur gaon ki sab ladkiya hum behan mante hain aur aaj ka samaj use nahi man-na chahta. apni behan se saadi karne wale ko kya kaha jata hai sayad sab jante hain aur ham wo nahi hain.

malikdeepak1
July 25th, 2009, 10:07 AM
akbhar me aa rahi sai.....is chore ki bahu.....jisne len tai yu gaya tha arrr mara gaya.....wa nu kawe sai.....mere tai neend ki goli khawa diya karta yooo.....arrr mai nashe me raha karti......arrr mainne kuch nahi beraa :mad:


...

Fer to nu b kahni chaiye thi chori ne bhai k wo chora uska kidnap karke le ja rhya tha.. Apni marji te gayi jibe to uski gal byah karya. Nahi to wa us dhore phochi kyukar.. koi bujho us chori te ya baat.. Fer bera patega usne.. Wo to mar gya bichara.. mare paache bhi uske upar keechad uchala ja rha h.. ya uste b bhundi baat hon laag rhi h..:mad:

rajesh00
July 25th, 2009, 10:35 AM
Fact of the matter is that these young people forget the very basics of social norms and on the name of love do something so radical which has far reaching consequences for the colse society like ours.It is totally unacceptable marrying in own Gotra.Agar yahi hoga tou Gaon mein hi behen bhai shadi karne lggeinge aur iss samajj ki jo thodi bahut maryada bachi hei uska bi banttadhhar ho jayega.Some ethics and norms are always required to be followed ruthlessly if a society has to stay disciplined.Every one wants freedom but that absolute freedom can be available in jungle only.

Lekin kisi ki jaan lena bilkul galat baat hei.People must see reason.Kisi ko kisi ki jaan lene ka hak nahin hei.Inn bachchon ko samjhana chahiye tha aur courts ko bi samajik manyataon ko dhyan mein rakh kar hi directions deni chahiyein.Sirf isko talibaan se jodd kar dekhna aur apne samaaj ko redicule karna bewakuufffi hei.Sarvakhap jo fainssle leti hei wo aam samajj kehak mein hi hein....chahe wo kathhor bhi ho.

VJ
July 25th, 2009, 11:20 AM
bade bhaiyooo......maine nu na kahi sai ke ...chora thik tha.....arrr aapne gotra me byah sahi sai.......mainnne nu kahi sai.....ke kisi bhi galti ki saza maut na hoti............or bhi tarike howe sai....saza den ke.....


arr jo ye ghane kaanon ki baat kara kare ne.....ye kanoon bhi jib tai e sai....jab tak baat dusre ke upar hai.....jib baat apne ghar me aawe sai na....ye kaanon dhare ke dhare reh jya sai.....

koi ma arr koi babu aapne bete ne marwa ke raji na hota......

Arrr kise ka katal kare teh koi JAT na bana karta.......

malikdeepak1
July 25th, 2009, 11:30 AM
Arrr kise ka katal kare teh koi JAT na bana karta.......

Bhai VJ teri baat 16 aane sahi h. Aadmi marne h to paashaan yug me chale jao.

jagmohan
July 25th, 2009, 12:35 PM
Dear All,

Whenever an incident like this takes place, as a JAT (hopefully considering myself educated too and having little knowledge of our history and culture), I can’t help it but I have extreme conflicting thoughts, each one of them right in their own way. One thought is obviously that, that no one has the right to take away a life like this, whatever the provocation. The other conflicting thought in a liberal me is that even after trying to give every logical reason, I can’t agree with the same gotra marriage. No, whatever the circumstances, same gotra marriage cannot not be accepted. Why? Because that’s our belief and beliefs don’t need the stamp of approval by anyone other than the elders of the community and our past history. Each community follows their customs and traditions and so do we. We don’t question others and don’t give them the right to question ours.

Ignorance of such traditions by the next generation can’t be used as an excuse to indulge in same gotra marriage, even unknowingly. Communities elsewhere in the world pride themselves in their exclusive traditions. Why should we be apologetic? Let those communities who marry with in their gotra do so. When we have no problem in that, why should they question our beliefs? Tomorrow, if the Supreme Court rules that there is nothing wrong in same gotra marriage, do you expect JATS to say “Thank you, lordship, we will change our traditions and culture”. I think there will be a revolt.

The next question is how to deal with exceptions? My personal view is no different than other worthy members. The boy and girl could have been thrown out of the village. The parents too should be left alone. This is not the last time this has happened. These incidents are unfortunate and should not have happened in the first place.

My fear is different. The communities that have traditionally been always against us have already started calling us ‘Taliban’. Their game plan is simple. JATS have already been divided by them into two nations. They have also started buying our lands. Now they want to term us Taliban and may be ban us from these lands. It is high time JAT politicians show some guts and announce it loud and clear that this is our tradition. Failing to do so and any delay in showing a united front will lead to incalculable harm to us. That day is not far off when there will be a turmoil in society. Ar bhai, jis din JAT chhidd gya, te RAM bhi beech mein na aawe… Ar manne issa laage se ak JAT ke chhidden ke din aan ne hore sein…

Best regards,

JS Malik

vanshika23
July 25th, 2009, 01:05 PM
Not to speak of jats but the entire hindu community belive that sagothra mariage is the marriage in the same family.probably, no body knows, how was it started and why was it started but eventually, it has been transformed into a family prestige issue. So, in the family’s name, its costs everything, your life too, coz in our hindu families being dead is better than being disgraced.therefore, honor killings and brutal violence are the results of the harm done to the so called izzat.I,personaly believe that,Violence or homicide of any sort is illegal and inhuman. But simultaneously, I disagree that this practice of sagothra prohibition stands merely on old traditions. Its not customary because apart from superstitions we have some scientific reasons as well, enough to give a strong stand to our traditional values in the modern market. Same gothra people are genetically related to one another (since they once belonged to the same lineage).The consummation of such kind of marriages in same lineage intend to distort the progenial genetics. Very distant related marriages( sixth or seventh generation ) may not show a considerable genetic distortion but it will not breed a refined and quality progeny too. This is because they have a common ancestor from whom they received their genes and therefore have a chance of carrying the same harmful, faulty recessive gene copies. The main concern is the possibility that a child will inherit two identical copies of a faulty gene containing a recessive mutation, resulting in a genetic condition.
So nitin, don’t have a shallow look on our traditional values and practices.Its not about restraining and reacting.Its about right and wrong. I agree that it’s a matter of choice but when we make wrong choices our parents intend to rectify them. The killings involved are undoubtly exploitation to humanity. This violence should be prohibited either by laws or revolutions but getting changed into some other caste or comparing jats with talibans doesnt make good sense. It is not a solution but a sheer adamance to stand against something whether its gud or bad. Because if you think it’s a matter of choice then honor killing may be their choice.So, you are bringing choice against choice.Hence nitin, You are just complicating the issue rather than solving it.And one more thing there is no ground to have jats compared with talibans as jats have always been very liberal and active in any revolution .You had better sense the matter deeply before you project your views

ravinderjeet
July 25th, 2009, 01:31 PM
very good Neha. in this thread ,earlier i also mentioned that there are scintific reasons behind this and you elobrated that perfactely.jats are most libarel community in this world. and the people who are calling us taalibani are old eanemy of our society.col. jagmohanji ne sahi baat pakadi hey.the media and govt contoled by thease jat ke dushman.

nitindev
July 25th, 2009, 04:20 PM
Thanks Richa for expressing your concern and support.

Vijay bhaisahab, aapne bahut hee manjhi hui aur sahi baat kahi hai, jab apne par aati hai tab hee ahesaas hota hai and thanks for sharing the updates.

Rakesh - I wonder jaato ne jaan lene ka kanoon kab banaya. aazadi aur itihaas ke jitne bhi kisse hain, bahut debatable hai aur usme sab jaatiyo ka loha maana jaata tha. hume aaj mein rehena chahiye.

rajesh - chaliye aapne itna to maana ki jaan lena bahut galat tha. Aur agar kutch galat hai to uska sudhar badi galti se nahi ho sakta. Samaaj ka banttadhar, unn bacho ne itna nahi kiya jitna samaj ke thekedaaro ne kiya. Jo apne gair kanooni kanoon khud banate hain, shayad unhi ko hee talibaan kehete hain.

Jagmohan Sir - no one is questioning the matter of same gotra here but issue here is the heinous manner in which our community addressed the so called cultural offence. And I am sorry but I was not able to understand the point you were trying to make in your last para. I would also like to mention that contrasting such heinous actions with talibanism is just to address the disrespect towards humanity. it is purely symbolic.

Neha - Thanks for sharing the info in your first para, but that is out of the scope of discussion. It is not about justification of gotra or non gotra marriage, it is about punishing the cultural culprits through extreme measures, in talibanic ways. In some other genetic forum i would love to express my opinions on the genetic mixing and evolution. Your second para is illogically distasteful. You mean to say that if i make a choice to harm others then I am justified?

Ravinder - Just want to say that jats are not liberal, on the contrary we are one of the most conservative society. These honor killings clearly demonstrate the fact. Just by having some blind belief, doesnt not mean that it is correct. And I am not trying to change the belief here, but to not to insult jats and humanity in the name of culture.

rakeshsehrawat
July 25th, 2009, 04:32 PM
Thanks Richa for expressing your concern and support.

Vijay bhaisahab, aapne bahut hee manjhi hui aur sahi baat kahi hai, jab apne par aati hai tab hee ahesaas hota hai and thanks for sharing the updates.

Rakesh - I wonder jaato ne jaan lene ka kanoon kab banaya. aazadi aur itihaas ke jitne bhi kisse hain, bahut debatable hai aur usme sab jaatiyo ka loha maana jaata tha. hume aaj mein rehena chahiye.

rajesh - chaliye aapne itna to maana ki jaan lena bahut galat tha. Aur agar kutch galat hai to uska sudhar badi galti se nahi ho sakta. Samaaj ka banttadhar, unn bacho ne itna nahi kiya jitna samaj ke thekedaaro ne kiya. Jo apne gair kanooni kanoon khud banate hain, shayad unhi ko hee talibaan kehete hain.

Jagmohan Sir - no one is questioning the matter of same gotra here but issue here is the heinous manner in which our community addressed the so called cultural offence. And I am sorry but I was not able to understand the point you were trying to make in your last para. I would also like to mention that contrasting such heinous actions with talibanism is just to address the disrespect towards humanity. it is purely symbolic.

Neha - Thanks for sharing the info in your first para, but that is out of the scope of discussion. It is not about justification of gotra or non gotra marriage, it is about punishing the cultural culprits through extreme measures, in talibanic ways. In some other genetic forum i would love to express my opinions on the genetic mixing and evolution. Your second para is illogically distasteful. You mean to say that if i make a choice to harm others then I am justified?

Ravinder - Just want to say that jats are not liberal, on the contrary we are one of the most conservative society. These honor killings clearly demonstrate the fact. Just by having some blind belief, doesnt not mean that it is correct. And I am not trying to change the belief here, but to not to insult jats and humanity in the name of culture.
Dear Nitin
I don't know why are you so restless.
Do you know whole history of your village?
Do you know something about brotherhood of gotras?
Do you know why and when this rule was made?
Do you know anything about jats?
Be liberal and marry your cousin or let your sister do that .
Some system was made and it was not on blind faith it got some reasons behind it. Every girl and boy of same village and same gotra are brother and sisters. Not even the girls of our mother's gotra is our sister but girls from our grandmother's gotra is also our sister. This is our culture.
We are not muslims we are not christians.
Do you know what is the meaning of advanced?
Learn advanced techniques and do something better for society . How can you say that this all traditions are bad?
Have you done anything for your country? society? Humankind?
We are not saying that we don't want to get educated. We are getting educated. We are improving our shortcomings. But that doesn't give us any right to sleep with our sisters.
If that is advancement then we congratulate you for being advanced. And we aare very happy that we are not that advanced

nitindev
July 25th, 2009, 04:42 PM
This is exactly what Richa tried to point out earlier in her response, that people over here tend to sway away from topic and give it a different direction, egoistic one. you are inviting me to get into a personal war of words with you based on your personal statements towards me, but I really dont have the time to waste on non-productive discussions here. If you can't stick to the scope of the discussion here then please feel free to start a new thread.

arvind1069
July 25th, 2009, 04:49 PM
Dear Nitin
I don't know why are you so restless.
Do you know whole history of your village?
Do you know something about brotherhood of gotras?
Do you know why and when this rule was made?
Do you know anything about jats?
Be liberal and marry your cousin or let your sister do that .
Some system was made and it was not on blind faith it got some reasons behind it. Every girl and boy of same village and same gotra are brother and sisters. Not even the girls of our mother's gotra is our sister but girls from our grandmother's gotra is also our sister. This is our culture.
We are not muslims we are not christians.
Do you know what is the meaning of advanced?
Learn advanced techniques and do something better for society . How can you say that this all traditions are bad?
Have you done anything for your country? society? Humankind?
We are not saying that we don't want to get educated. We are getting educated. We are improving our shortcomings. But that doesn't give us any right to sleep with our sisters.
If that is advancement then we congratulate you for being advanced. And we aare very happy that we are not that advanced

u r deviating from the topic mate. nitin is not in favour of same gotra marriage. he is just raising his concern against the killing. its a harsh punishment and non justifiable. hum kab keh rahe hai ki same gotra main marriage honi chahiye ya apni cousins k sath honi chahiye.
but tell me if if it was ur brother or sister killed by these khaap punishments, what wud ur reaction b? would u still b justifying them? nahi na....bas baat yahi khatam ho jaati hai

rakeshsehrawat
July 25th, 2009, 04:53 PM
u r deviating from the topic mate. nitin is not in favour of same gotra marriage. he is just raising his concern against the killing. its a harsh punishment and non justifiable. hum kab keh rahe hai ki same gotra main marriage honi chahiye ya apni cousins k sath honi chahiye.
but tell me if if it was ur brother or sister killed by these khaap punishments, what wud ur reaction b? would u still b justifying them? nahi na....bas baat yahi khatam ho jaati hai

If My brother or sister had done that i would have killed him/her with my own hands.

arvind1069
July 25th, 2009, 05:05 PM
If My brother or sister had done that i would have killed him/her with my own hands.
so u mean to say that KILLING IS THE APPROPRIATE PUNISHMENT FOR MARRYING IN SAME GOTRA?
OR SOME OTHER FORM OF PUNISHMENT IS FINE?

crsnadar
July 25th, 2009, 05:51 PM
I personally think that..this matter should have been left to their families themselve.
Their families could have handled it the way they want.
They also have the equal knowledge of society as anybody has & they have the right also.

singhabhimanyu
July 25th, 2009, 10:10 PM
i hope u're never tested to take back ur words.

If My brother or sister had done that i would have killed him/her with my own hands.

sidchhikara
July 26th, 2009, 01:47 AM
If My brother or sister had done that i would have killed him/her with my own hands.

Would you then drink their blood?
Hey if you kill them, you might as well use the meat to make tikkas.
Dude, get a grip on your hate. You sound like a psychopath.

sandeepnain77
July 26th, 2009, 10:55 AM
Jaago brother. Kaun si sadi mein jee rahe ho. Dunia bahut aage pahuch chuki hai, aur hum log abhi bhi puraane ghise pite kabile wale riri rivajon mein uljhe hue haain. Apne aaspas najar dodao aur dekho dunia kahan hai. Do tarah se sukhi reh sakte ho ya to dunia ko apne tarike se chalo ya apne aap ko dunia ke tarike se mold kar lo. Pehle wala kaam impossible hai to dusra tarika dopt kar lo. Come onnnn. Jagooooooooooooooooooooo.

jitendershooda
July 27th, 2009, 11:44 AM
Tomorrow, if the Supreme Court rules that there is nothing wrong in same gotra marriage, do you expect JATS to say “Thank you, lordship, we will change our traditions and culture”. I think there will be a revolt.


Jagmohan Ji,

I think its already there. SC finds nothing wrong in same gotra marriage too.

Killing is not the solution. These are social norms and a person violating must be cut apart socially and not physically. Also we need panchayat's to be held time to time and come up with concrete realisation as to what needs to carry on forward and what needs to be shed off or made optional in terms of these social norms. It is hard to obey all of the rules that we had in past and so society needs timely overhaulling.

I found Politicians talking only for votes and nobody has been come out with strong words. Though I heard Deepender talking of understanding the social norms but we need peacetime efforts to raise such concerns. We can understand that they dont want themselves to be read wrong and loose votes but I think peacetime state sponsored panchayats under legal supervision could have made them hero in society. They should try this.

According to me ... the following should be covered by law either by making JAT act for haryana or so....

Must
1) Cant marry same gotr
2) Cant marry mother's gotr
3) Cant marry in the same village

These should be covered by law for we Jats. Duniya to humari aachi cheejen apna rahi hai ... hum apni aachi rivajon ko hi khone par amada hein. Like one have told that in UK first cousin marriages among muslims have been discouraged due to increase in retardation cases.

Optional
4) Shouldnt marry the other gotr residing in the same village if there is some bhai chara in that village among those gotra's. Like Kapil have said how to make it clear whether bhaichara is there or not .... needs discussion ....

Also if some bhaichara was there and they marry ... then the couple should leave the village and not the parents.

It is going harder and harder to follow these bhaichara things ... e.g. Loharehdi, jhesorkhedi ... have bhaichara with Kharhar ... they cant marry in kharhar but can in other rahtee's .... they cant marry in Deeghal but can marry in other ahlawats .... similarly man, sehwag, deshwal, dalal ....

So social norms should be relaxed to make them more attractive to follow and not too much strong that one start hating them.

Ek taraf to hum bihar se leke aa rahe hein ... doosri taraf hum in bhaicharon mein phanse hue hein ... wa kum te kum jatni to se ...

VPannu
July 27th, 2009, 12:27 PM
If My brother or sister had done that i would have killed him/her with my own hands.
wah wah..kyaa khoob kahi. maan gaye mughal-e-aazam. kasuuti ae baat kah di tanne :tamatar

nitindev
July 27th, 2009, 02:06 PM
wah wah..kyaa khoob kahi. Maan gaye mughal-e-aazam. Kasuuti ae baat kah di tanne :tamatar


lol..........

arvind1069
July 28th, 2009, 08:40 AM
Jagmohan Ji,

I think its already there. SC finds nothing wrong in same gotra marriage too.

Killing is not the solution. These are social norms and a person violating must be cut apart socially and not physically. Also we need panchayat's to be held time to time and come up with concrete realisation as to what needs to carry on forward and what needs to be shed off or made optional in terms of these social norms. It is hard to obey all of the rules that we had in past and so society needs timely overhaulling.

I found Politicians talking only for votes and nobody has been come out with strong words. Though I heard Deepender talking of understanding the social norms but we need peacetime efforts to raise such concerns. We can understand that they dont want themselves to be read wrong and loose votes but I think peacetime state sponsored panchayats under legal supervision could have made them hero in society. They should try this.

According to me ... the following should be covered by law either by making JAT act for haryana or so....

Must
1) Cant marry same gotr
2) Cant marry mother's gotr
3) Cant marry in the same village

These should be covered by law for we Jats. Duniya to humari aachi cheejen apna rahi hai ... hum apni aachi rivajon ko hi khone par amada hein. Like one have told that in UK first cousin marriages among muslims have been discouraged due to increase in retardation cases.

Optional
4) Shouldnt marry the other gotr residing in the same village if there is some bhai chara in that village among those gotra's. Like Kapil have said how to make it clear whether bhaichara is there or not .... needs discussion ....

Also if some bhaichara was there and they marry ... then the couple should leave the village and not the parents.

It is going harder and harder to follow these bhaichara things ... e.g. Loharehdi, jhesorkhedi ... have bhaichara with Kharhar ... they cant marry in kharhar but can in other rahtee's .... they cant marry in Deeghal but can marry in other ahlawats .... similarly man, sehwag, deshwal, dalal ....

So social norms should be relaxed to make them more attractive to follow and not too much strong that one start hating them.

Ek taraf to hum bihar se leke aa rahe hein ... doosri taraf hum in bhaicharon mein phanse hue hein ... wa kum te kum jatni to se ...

i agree with u. i think the 4th point should not be there in jat act, not even optional. ajkal ladki milna itna kathin ho gaya hai, to is bhaichaare wale rule ko relax kar dena chahiye. aur is rule k kaaran kisi ke personal rights ki bali nahi deni chahiye. yaar agar kisi ko kisi se pyaar ho jaaye aur vo sirf isliye shaadi na kar payen ki unke gotra main so called "bhaichara' hai, to aap hi aochiye unke upar kitni buri beetegi. aur bhaichaare wala kanoon sirf samajik hai, usme blood purity par b koi asar nahi parta, to isliye is rule ko to khatam ki kar dena chahiye. baki rule 1,2,3 theek hai
so let these rules be simple and easy to follow.

Ambijat
July 28th, 2009, 11:19 AM
The views expressed by Jat "intellectuals" in defence of the endogamy is an eye opener for they certainly would not be seen the same as by the Jats of Rajasthan (there is no khap system there) or MP or even Gujrat. This makes Jats of Haryana (esp. in the periphery of Delhi) a particular exclusive group that follows certain norms of exogamy. Their definition of brother and sister is far far extensive than the sociological kinship definition which stops at the first order cousins.
Territorial brotherhood and blood relations defined in terms of territoriality makes these particular set of Jats already an exclusive group that is vulnerable to some features which reveal endogamous origins of this kind of exogamy. One simple evidence is the poor diversity index of Jat gotras in these regions. This itself points at the crises of territorial and blood endogamy and exogamy.
The question here is not to bring down somebody's honour at this instance. The real issue is that how this localised community can outward orient oneself so that this situation can be addressed.
So far as the Talibanisation is concerned. The fact originates from the lot of material resources devoted to muscle power and there by coercing the organs of community to follow the diktats. The time is not far when there is going to be internal unrest over these issues as the death at one instance might symbolise the establishment of an order, at the same brings revulsion into innovating a challenge against the aggression over the freedom of the rest of the others.

drssrana2003
August 1st, 2009, 07:09 PM
1. Yes there is need for awareness about marriage matters. Even our villagelife is become individualistic. Social interaction is on the decline. The village republics of yester years are in a dillema. The official Panchayts have only the assigned concerns i.e.activities under the law. The traditional Panchayats though not extinct, are in limbo in most places. They get activated only in times of a social crisis, especially concerning matrimony.
2. As far as socially unacceptable actions are concerned ,it is the traditional Panchayat which should decide. In case of disagrement the higher level of panchayat (sarvakhap) should decide. Divorce is not the ideal solution. Change of place of residence is the least tricky solution. As long as the villages are not fragmented and made part of city life the Bhaichara norms would have to be followed. People not living in villages will not be able to appreciate the situation.The gap between the jats and the rest of the world shall remain till the former live in villages seeking a harmonious life governed by kinship norms. Otherwise it would be worse than death.
3. Other issues are not so crucial for the day to day life in a village as these touch individuals. Matrimony and land alienation are the two issues which touch village life vitally. The Khap panchayats have to struggle hard indeed.
s.s.rana

VPS77
August 2nd, 2009, 12:16 PM
Sangwan sahab , jo log same gotra mea shadi ki tarafdari kar rahe hea ya media is cheese ko uchal rahi hei , unhe gotra system ka pata hi nahi hea . hamarea gaon me kahavat hea dunia me 1.5 biradari hea ak JAT or 1/2 brahman , baki ka koi hisab nahi .

mea jat land ke madham se sab jats ko bolna chahta hun ki is genetics difference se hi hum jats sab se alag he . hamari antamology sareshte hi . jis prakar ak hi prakar ke bar bar beez ropne se uski growth kharab hoti hea , usi prakr humen anamology par bhi lagu hoti hea .

rana1
August 2nd, 2009, 12:43 PM
bhaiooo ravinder mere mama ki buaa ka ladka h or unke ghar walle gaam chodne ke baad abhi mere mama ke ghar gaam dujana m h weha per bhi ab unki surkhsya ke leye her gate p police walee khade h chinta ki koi baat nahi h sadi huee thi jab gaam ke sare aadmi bhi sadi m gaye the we jab kuch na bole eb bhai baat poltics ki h ravinder ka father pahle gaam ka sarpanch tha or ya sari ladai sarpanchi ki h rr es baar bhi usne sarpachi ka election ladna tha r uska ka palda bhari tha es baar ja tai ya sari baat hui h es te beyah ka t bus bahana h behyaa hoii bhi kai mahine ho leye rr gaam ke we sare admi behyaa m ja re the jo eb behyaa n tudwaw h r waise bhi ravinder t uski buaa n good le rakhya h es karan uska t gout bhi badal ga bhai ya sari sarpanchi ki ladai s

guliayaj100
August 2nd, 2009, 07:27 PM
yaar agar kisi ko kisi se pyaar ho jaaye aur vo sirf isliye shaadi na kar payen ki unke gotra main so called "bhaichara' hai, to aap hi aochiye unke upar kitni buri beetegi. aur bhaichaare wala kanoon sirf samajik hai, usme blood purity par b koi asar nahi parta, to isliye is rule ko to khatam ki kar dena chahiye. baki rule 1,2,3 theek hai
so let these rules be simple and easy to follow.

bhai arvind
Agar pyar hi sabse upar hai to kisi ko apne gotra ki ladki se pyar ho jaye to unko bhi shaadi kar leni chahiye , aapke hisab se?

dilpatsingh
August 3rd, 2009, 11:50 PM
ye got ke chakraan mein kitne balkaan ke byaah hote hote reh gaye...

unless you try it how do you know it is baaad.. maan. There should develop some new understanding on this ridiculous old custom. Even the supreme court has allowed same got marriages.

poonam
August 4th, 2009, 04:27 AM
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/NEWS/India/Honour-over-love-Over-100-killed-every-yr/articleshow/4818395.cms

I am at the loss of words to express my grief, embarrassment and anger at such inhuman acts taking place in the heart of our very own “Jatland”.. .

I share your sentiments Nitin. Unfortunately, Jats take pride in these barbaric acts.
Same gotra or different (love marriages, for instance), if it goes against their wishes the end result is anybody’s guess. I feel sorry for us and genuinely wonder when are we gonna rise above all this sham.

vijayran007
August 4th, 2009, 04:49 AM
Ram Ram bhai

I have some Confucian will you plz help me out I like a girl her gotra is Narwal (नरवाल) and my gotra is Vijayran (विजयरण) her Mother gotra is Sansanwal (सन्सनवाल) and my Mother gotra is Malik (मलिक) but there is one problem my grandmother gotra is also Sansanwal (सन्सनवाल) but both of them are from different villages so is it possible that we both can marry as I don’t know about this all so I will like to take suggestion from all of you that what should I do …………………

Thanks your help will be appreciated….

rana1
August 4th, 2009, 06:41 AM
Ram Ram bhai

I have some Confucian will you plz help me out I like a girl her gotra is Narwal (नरवाल) and my gotra is Vijayran (विजयरण) her Mother gotra is Sansanwal (सन्सनवाल) and my Mother gotra is Malik (मलिक) but there is one problem my grandmother gotra is also Sansanwal (सन्सनवाल) but both of them are from different villages so is it possible that we both can marry as I don’t know about this all so I will like to take suggestion from all of you that what should I do …………………

Thanks your help will be appreciated….
ram ram bhai tere is chinta ha solution khaap panchayet n kuch mahine pahle ker deya h bhai pahle hamari sadiyoo m 3 sername bachaye jate the father, mother (mama) grandmother. per hamari sadiyo m bar bar problem ke chalte ab khaap panchayet n sabhi ko keha h ki wo apna 3 gotre yani ki grandmother ka sername apni sadiyo m chod sakte h agar koi chodna chahey to panchayet ki taraf se koi problem nahi ho gi ha bhai agar apki famli or apki girl friend ki famli ko koi problem nahi h to app ki maried m kissi ko koi problem nahi ho sakti ha baki ye sab aap per h ki jo panchayet n neya kanoon lagu kiya h us per aap ka viswas h ya nahi

jitendershooda
August 4th, 2009, 02:22 PM
http://www.punjabkesari.in/Details.aspx?id=11228&boxid=28521332

vijayran007
August 5th, 2009, 04:08 AM
Thanks for your help

arvind1069
August 5th, 2009, 08:38 AM
bhai arvind
Agar pyar hi sabse upar hai to kisi ko apne gotra ki ladki se pyar ho jaye to unko bhi shaadi kar leni chahiye , aapke hisab se?

maine pyaar ko sabse upar to nahi kaha, par pyaar roorhivaad se to upar hi hai. agar koi aisa karna chahta hai to unhe rokne ke liye unki jaan lena theek nahi hai. unka samajik bahishkaar kar dena chahiye. unhe gaon se bahar nikaal dena chahiye. isme pyaaar ko b haani nahi hogi aur samajik system b theek rahega.

malikdeepak1
August 5th, 2009, 04:53 PM
maine pyaar ko sabse upar to nahi kaha, par pyaar roorhivaad se to upar hi hai. agar koi aisa karna chahta hai to unhe rokne ke liye unki jaan lena theek nahi hai. unka samajik bahishkaar kar dena chahiye. unhe gaon se bahar nikaal dena chahiye. isme pyaaar ko b haani nahi hogi aur samajik system b theek rahega.

sab gaam chhod chhod bhaaj jyange bhai nu to.. gaam me fer panchayti e rah jaange :rock

lrburdak
August 6th, 2009, 09:00 AM
1. Yes there is need for awareness about marriage matters. Even our villagelife is become individualistic. Social interaction is on the decline. .....
s.s.rana
****************************************
Welcome Rana Saheb on the Jatland !!!

Jatland will be highly enriched with your knowledge and experience.

Regards,

vicky84
August 6th, 2009, 05:41 PM
Interview with victim's family and gram panchayat delegates.



http://www.bbc.co.uk/hindi/multimedia/2009/08/090804_honourkillings_audio_as.shtml

vicky84
August 6th, 2009, 05:54 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/hindi/india/2009/08/090805_video_shyam_skj.shtml

jitendershooda
August 7th, 2009, 01:35 PM
What do you feel this is personal step or influenced by the panchayats? What the khaps can do in this regard?

______________
2 killed for ‘honour’ in Haryana

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2009/20090807/main4.htm

Anil (22) and Rani (17) of Balhamba village, about 25 km from here, could not have imagined a punishment harsher than this for their “relationship” that was not acceptable to their families.

After being reportedly caught in a compromising position by the girl’s kin, the couple was brutally executed last night for saving the family honour.
According to police sources, Anil was called to the house of the girl late last night and was hacked to death after a heated argument over his alleged affair with Rani. While the boy was killed and his body dumped outside the village, the girl was strangulated and her last rites were performed early in the morning. The body of Anil was noticed by a kin early today.
SSP Anil Kumar Rao said the accused included the girl’s parents, uncles and brothers. They have been arrested and reportedly have confessed to their crime.
The SSP said: “The girl was alone in the house while some function was being held at the boy’s residence. Late at night, the boy went to the girl’s house but was spotted by the girl’s uncle. The family has admitted to have murdered the duo.”
A case had been registered on the complaint of Rajbir, father of the boy, against the girl’s family. A forensic team took bone samples of the girl from the cremation ground. Anil’s body was handed over to the police after a post-mortem examination.

spdeshwal
August 8th, 2009, 05:13 AM
बुधं शरणम गच्छामि !


खाप पंचायत की इस घोषणा के बाद कि, हम जाट हिन्दू नहीं, बल्कि बोद्ध हैं , क्या में ये आशा कर सकता हूँ कि खाप पंचायते और उनकी वयवस्था में विश्वास रखने वाले जाट बुद्ध के बताये करूणा और इंसानियत के पहलु को, इस तरह कि कठिन घड़ियों में, अपने वयवहार में उज्जागर करेंगे और अपने मान सम्मान के नाम पर हत्या जैसे घृणित कृत्य अंजाम नहीं देंगे !
इस अति कठिन दौर से गुजर रहे रविंदर, शिल्पा और उनके परिवार के लिए मेरी यही प्रार्थना और सन्देश है :

जब दुःख कि घडियां आयें, सच पर झूठ विजय पाए !
इस निर्मल पावन मन पर, जब कलंक के फन छायें !
अन्यायों कि आंधी से, काप उठे जब तेरे बोल !
तब मानव तू मुख से बोल ...
बुधं शरणम गच्छामि ! (Film Angulimaal)



बुधं शरणम गच्छामि !

rakeshsehrawat
August 8th, 2009, 09:05 AM
Panchayat Fansi/hatya ke fainsle bhi deti hai?

Mujhe nahi pata tha aap logo ne mujhe bata diya dhanyawad.

Gotra vivad ya gaon mein hi saadi jaisi baato pe gaon chodne ya rista todne ke fainsle hi sune the maine.
You guys are confusing Honour Killing and Panchayat's decision

Honour killing is done by family itself.
Ye bihar nahi haryana hai aur jin logo ne panchayat siraf filmo mein dekhi hai ya media (TV Newspaper) ki aankho se dekhi hai unse gujarish hai ki kam se kam ek baar jaroor dekh ke aayein. Itne bade fainsle aankh mund ke nahi liye jate aur wahan aapse kahin jyada budhiman padhe likhe aur samajhdar log baithe hain.

spdeshwal
August 8th, 2009, 10:09 AM
Rakesh Bhai

I was born and brought up in village and spent all my life keeping in touch with my village folks. I have witnessed some Khap Punchayat, Barah, Athgama, punchayats. I am very well aware of their functioning. I have seen your Chaubisee Punchayat closely. I have seen them playing like puppets in the hands of their Akkas. I don't want to name them.

In most cases of honor killings, parents and family members commit the crime but under the pressure and some cases even the support of these punchayts?

What happened to Vedpal in Sighwal village of jind . Was it possible to murder him without the help of Punchayt and their supporters.

What do you think the delegates of these punchayats would openly order these sinful acts ?

Do these punchayats instruct their supporters, not to take law in their hand?
If you feel that these punchayats have any obligation to maintain the order in the society then it is their bloody duty to ensure that these kind of happenings get severest of condemation.

There are several other social evils that these self styled crusaders should fight for! I don't have to list them.

If these khap punchayats have some credibility and feel any pain for the Samaj than first thing they should do is to condemn and discourage these kind of senseless killings! I would specially expect this kind of reaction from delegates like Jat Historian Shri Beniwal.

Cheers!

vicky84
August 8th, 2009, 10:54 AM
law is a rule of conduct established and enforced by the authority, legislation, or custom of a given community,state, or nation.

If custom of a given community does not allow a marriage in same gotra, then why law is not ammended accordingly.
and if panchayats are not able to ammend a law, then what they are trying to prove.

Head of panchayat Raj singh's opinion over gotra marriage:"humari parampra ye kehti hai ki jis gotra ka kheda ho us gotra ke andar ussi gotra ki ladki bhayi hui nahi aa sakti"
I am completely agree with this statement.

In the second part of his opinion: "kanoon apni jagah hai aur samaj ke niyam aur kaydae apni jagah hain" Such an ambiguous statment is a real cause of such issues.

Samarkadian
August 10th, 2009, 12:51 PM
Finaly, it took the intervention of Sarv Khap Mahapanchyat to seal the final 'agreeable' verdict of Kadian-Gehlot Gotra Marriage row.

===> ढराणा गोत्र विवाद को लेकर बेरी के राजकीय वरिष्ठ विद्यालय में रविवार को आयोजित सर्व खाप महापंचायत ने रविंद्र को अपनी पत्नी शिल्पा के साथ आजीवन और उसके पिता रोहताश गहलोत को तीन माह के लिए ढराणा गांव से बाहर रहने का फैसला सुना दिया।
साथ ही रोहताश के भाइयों नसीब व वेदप्रकाश और कादियान बाहुल्य गांव में अपनी बेटी का रिश्ता करने वाले शिल्पा के पिता वेदप्रकाश निवासी सिवाह (पानीपत) के परिवार पर भी महापंचायत ने एक-एक कौड़ी का जुर्माना लगाने तथा किसी भी पक्ष द्वारा फैसला न माने जाने पर जातीय बहिष्कार का निर्णय भी किया। उधर महापंचायत के फैसले को मानते हुए देर शाम रोहतास ने अपने परिवार के साथ गांव छोड़ा <<<

It looks quite sympathatic to the Boy's family[Girl as well] from Media's point of popular view. Many members here must not know that former Sarpanch of Dharana Risal Singh [Grandfather of Boy] was key person in deciding the illfamous case of Aashish -Darshna in Village Joundhi. He had declaring the couple as Brother and sister. Karmas came back and bite his butt when his own grandson was fixed in a row. Gehlot Khap was even against this family on main issues. It was interesting to hear interview of Darshna who is victim of Risal's verdict that Why is he not following now the rules and regulations? Its funny and foolish to know that being a Sarpanch and involvement with Gotra cases, he was quiet. But it points something towards greed. The girl family at Siwah owns land at GT road which is almost of Crores. So like an old adage says:- Duniya mein Jhagde ke teen hi karan hote hain ; Jar, Joru aur Jamin.

During all this mess no Jat politician was interested in any statement. Lately Chautala tried to bump in with the same 'talibani model of Khaps but in end became politicaly correct out of Majboori. Meanwhile, few NGOs run by defaulters Jats[ Jatni infact] find this row as a mean to come in limelight like this :-

>>>>किसी दंपति को गांव से निकाल देने या फिर तलाक कराकर भाई बहन बनने पर मजबूर करने जैसे तुगलकी फरमान जारी करने वाली स्वयंभू पंचायतों व खापों के खिलाफ कड़ी कानूनी कार्रवाई होनी चाहिए।
रविवार को सेक्टर एक स्थित जाट धर्मशाला में आयोजित नागरिक सम्मेलन में यह आम राय उभरी। जनवादी महिला संगठन सहित कई बड़े-बडे़ संगठनों ने प्रेमी युगलों की सरेआम हत्याएं और इन मामलों में पुलिस की उदासीनता को निंदनीय करार देते हुए कहा कि ऐसे मामलों में प्रदेश सरकार को तुरंत हस्तक्षेप करनी चाहिए। वक्ताओं ने ढराणा, सिंहवाल और महम में हुई घटनाओं को दुर्भाग्यपूर्ण बताया व कानूनी कार्रवाई की मांग की। हरियाणा प्रशासनिक सुधार समिति के सदस्य डीआर चौधरी ने कहा कि युवक-युवतियों को सरेआम जान से मार देना और गोत्र विवाद के नाम पर पूरे परिवार को गांव के निकाल देना और उसकी संपत्ति पर कब्जा कर लेना गुंडाराज का ही सबूत है। जिस समाज में ठहराव आ जाता है, समझ लो वह समाज सड़ जाता है। जनवादी महिला समिति की राज्य अध्यक्षा जगमति सांगवान ने कहा कि जातिवादी खाप पंचायतें संविधान को ताक पर रख समाज की छवि को कलंकित कर रही हैं। सुप्रीम कोर्ट के एडवोकेट कीर्ति सिंह ने कहा कि इस मुद्दे पर विशेष कानून की जरूरत है। <<<<

Its true that concept of society is integrate people on every level. Society's backbone is on the basis not to leave an individual alone. Samaj aadmi ko akela hone se bachane ke liye hai na ki use akela karne ke liye. Since universaly nothing is perfect so people commit certain passionate mistakes and society extrude them to realize but since it is not tribal times but it is also not insensitive robotic era, so a moderate punishment is apt. Such issues should be sort out as soon as possible as they surface out else the existence of Khap system would be like a Peepal Tree on the wall of a house which would be appear as danger to home.

Some posters appeared to come in favour of Love and blah blah. I thought to bring out an excerpt on ''unconditional-Modern'' love by Ayan Rand :-

'To love is to value. The man who tells you that it is possible to value without values, to love those whom you appraise as worthless, is the man who tells you that it is possible to grow rich by consuming without producing and that paper money is as valuable as gold . . . . When it comes to love, the highest of emotions, you permit them to shriek at you accusingly that you are a moral delinquent if you’re incapable of feeling causeless love. When a man feels fear without reason, you call him to the attention of a psychiatrist; you are not so careful to protect the meaning, the nature and the dignity of love.

Love is the expression of one’s values, the greatest reward you can earn for the moral qualities you have achieved in your character and person, the emotional price paid by one man for the joy he receives from the virtues of another. Your morality demands that you divorce your love from values and hand it down to any vagrant, not as response to his worth, but as response to his need, not as reward, but as alms, not as a payment for virtues, but as a blank check on vices. Your morality tells you that the purpose of love is to set you free of the bonds of morality, that love is superior to moral judgment, that true love transcends, forgives and survives every manner of evil in its object, and the greater the love the greater the depravity it permits to the loved. To love a man for his virtues is paltry and human, it tells you; to love him for his flaws is divine.'




By the way, Khap's declaration of Jat as Non-Hindu sect, is purely defensive and self-defeating approach to few joker's[ Lungiwala Chidambaram and like him] mindless comments over Khap.

jitendershooda
August 10th, 2009, 01:14 PM
If any of the members were present there, please share their views about that panchayat.....
________________________
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2009/20090810/main4.htm

Pandemonium and violence marked the “sarva khap” meeting here today. The four-hour meeting on the campus of a government school was an unruly affair with “volunteers” beating up speakers who dared to differ with the prevailing view. They also assaulted a photo-journalist and broke his camera while he was taking pictures of the chaotic scenes at the meeting.

There were barely half a dozen policemen to control the situation. It is not clear if the organisers had sought any permission for the meeting, that too in a government school, but the administration seemed hardly prepared to handle the congregation of 2,000-odd people. As a result, one of the policemen present was also assaulted and later lodged a complaint with the DSP. The administration made no arrangement to record the proceedings of the khap and no action was taken against the volunteers till Sunday evening even after the photo-journalist was hospitalised.
One of the speakers, Jagdish Singh, was manhandled and assaulted by the “volunteers” when he dared to speak against the Kadian khap’s decision to disallow the wedding of Ravinder Gehlout with Shilpa Kadian. When he suggested that the marriage should be accepted, pandemonium broke out and he was dragged down from the stage and manhandled.
A small group of people seemed to be in control and the rest were passive onlookers. Nobody protested against the unruly behaviour of the volunteers. Nobody expressed any regret over the sorry spectacle and nobody intervened when the volunteers went on the rampage.
Most of the people sitting on the dais were elder citizens, but 55-year-old Subhash Dahiya was “elected” to preside over the meeting, which came as a surprise to old-timers. Women were, of course, conspicuous by their absence. And although as many as 53 khaps were represented, not more than six were allowed to express their “views”. It was billed as the mother of all meetings to decide the fate of one Gehlout family in Jhajjar which had allegedly done the unthinkable and accepted the marriage of one of their boys with a girl belonging to a Kadian family from Panipat. Both the boy and the girl , moreover, grew up in Delhi and continue to live there.

kusumdhochak
August 10th, 2009, 02:06 PM
What right does anyone have to harm some one who has not harmed anyone.
What good do these societies and panchayats do to people? over and above that they won't even let people live the way they want, the way that gives them happiness and fulfillment.
A person goes and marries someone he/she loves and is compatible with. If you don't like it, don't talk to them. But how can anyone justify making their and thier family's life difficult. It's outrightly criminal. Such people should in fact be given strict punishment. People have their roots, livelihood and so many other things connected to their birth/home place/village. How can someone order them to leave everything and displace them. This is violation of basic human rights. Who gives us the rights to play dons? how can we support such things.
If you hear the bbc program on link given by Atish, it says around 90% of such cases happen in Haryana, Punjab and Western UP. So many people are being murdered. All those of us who support such views are kind of partly responsible for these murders.
And one more thing, such things are not followed in rest of the India and I don't see that all those parts of India/ world are cultureless/insensitive or anything. In fact I find many other parts far more culturely rich, better family structures, better educated and disciplined. So what exactly have we gained by trying to stick at such things which are even leadind to criminal acts like murders and human right viloations.
Why don't our panchayats sit and take decisions on trying to save family structures, speading peace and love, saving our folk music and other heritage or trying better agricultral methods, doing something to save the environment, trying to better the horrible education system in government schools (which is depriving so many children from quality life) and the list is unending. I haven't seen any 52 panchayats meetings on such important issues..
Meaningless and criminal waste of time is all I feel about this whole thing...

VivekGathwala
August 10th, 2009, 07:08 PM
2 अगस्त को झज्जर में ढराना गौत्र विवाद के चलते सर्व खाप पंचायत का आयोजन किया गया | इस पंचायत में हमारे बड़े भाई नरेंदर जी खरब व भारती जी सिन्धु ने भी सिरकत की | सर्व खाप पंचायत में कई आवश्यक फैसले लिए गए | पंचायत द्वारा लिए गए फैसले :-
1) कादयान खाप को तन - मन - धन से सहयोग का वचन |
2) हिन्दू कोड में परिवर्तन के लिए न्यायलय तथा सरकार के सामने जाना होगा |
3) जाट समाज के जो लोग गोत्र प्रथा का विरोध कर रहे हैं उन्हें चेतावनी देनी होगी कि वे इस दुष्प्रचार को बंद करे नहीं तो समाज उनके विरूद्व प्रतिबन्ध लगाने पर विचार करेगा |
4) दुसरे समाज के लोग विशेषकर शाहनी जैसे खत्री जाति के व्यक्ति जो मानवधिकारों के बहाने हमारे समाज को तोड़ने का षड़यंत्र कर रहे हैं उनके समाज के खिलाफ जाट समाज को सख्त फैसले लेने होंगे |
5) मीडिया जाट पंचायतो को तालीबानी कह रहा हैं और हमारे समाज के भाई - बहन बच्चों को प्रेमी युगल कहकर उनकी हत्या करवा रहा हैं जो इसके लिए जिम्मेवार हैं | मीडिया एक तरफी बात का प्रचार न करे | जाटों कि गोत्र प्रथा को पुर्णतः समझ कर ही अपना प्रचार करे अन्यथा जाट कौम ने भी मीडिया के विरोध में कोई फैसला लेना होगा |
6) भांजी का मामला छोड़ दिया जाये |
7) पूर्ण मुदे का निचौड़ हैं कि हिन्दू कोड में गौत्र प्रावधान न होने पर हिन्दू जाटों को छोड़ दुसरे 80 करोड़ हिन्दुओ को हिन्दू कोड से कोई शिकायत नहीं तो साफ़ अर्थ हैं कि हिन्दू जाट हिन्दू नहीं हैं | वह आर्य हैं और उसकी संस्कृति और धर्म वैदिक हैं |

VivekGathwala
August 10th, 2009, 07:10 PM
Gotra Row
Khap panchayat gets Jats’ support
Ravinder Saini
Jhajjar, August 3
In a significant development in the ongoing row over the Kadyan Barha khap panchayat’s verdict to expel the Gehlout family from Dharana village here for alleged “violation” of social norms by marrying Ravinder Gehlout with a girl of Kadyan gotra, a large group of persons belonging to the Jat community have not only decided to support the stand of the khap panchayat, but also prepared a 10-point agenda for placing it at the Sarva khap panchayat meeting scheduled to be held on August 9 in Beri town here to take decisive steps regarding the controversy.
A decision to this effect was taken at a meeting held under the joint meeting of Om Prakash Dhankhar and Hawa Singh Sangwan here yesterday.
The meeting also decided to move the government as well as courts for getting amendments in the Hindu Marriage Act done besides warning the other communities against attempts to create division among the Jat community on the pretext of the human rights.
Jats, who attended the meeting, also maintained that they were ready to give all sorts of sacrifices to save the gotra custom, as it was an age-old system based on the principles of science.
Meanwhile, people belonging to the Gehlout gotra at Kheri Saadh village in Rohtak district have launched a campaign to mobilise the Gehlout khap members to come to the rescue of the affected family.
At a meeting held in the village, the villagers decided to convene a meeting of the Gehlout clan on Wednesday to take stock of the situation and evolve strategy to extend help to the affected Gehlout family.
The indefinite dharna by the Kadyan Barha khap members on the outskirts of Dharana village is on since Thursday.
The police is also deployed in the village and near the dharna venue to prevent any untoward incident.
The Gehlout family has also been living in Dharana village under heavy security cover after a week-long “exile” from the village bowing to the verdict of the khap panchayat.

VivekGathwala
August 10th, 2009, 07:22 PM
महापंचायत ने निकाला रास्ता
राजेश कुमार, झज्जर ढराणा गोत्र विवाद को लेकर बेरी के राजकीय वरिष्ठ विद्यालय में रविवार को आयोजित सर्व खाप महापंचायत ने रविंद्र को अपनी पत्नी शिल्पा के साथ आजीवन और उसके पिता रोहताश गहलोत को तीन माह के लिए ढराणा गांव से बाहर रहने का फैसला सुना दिया। साथ ही रोहताश के भाइयों नसीब व वेदप्रकाश और कादियान बाहुल्य गांव में अपनी बेटी का रिश्ता करने वाले शिल्पा के पिता वेदप्रकाश निवासी सिवाह (पानीपत) के परिवार पर भी महापंचायत ने एक-एक कौड़ी का जुर्माना लगाने तथा किसी भी पक्ष द्वारा फैसला न माने जाने पर जातीय बहिष्कार का निर्णय भी किया। उधर महापंचायत के फैसले को मानते हुए देर शाम रोहतास ने अपने परिवार के साथ गांव छोड़


महापंचायत ने निकाला.. दिया। वे तीन माह बाद गांव लौटेंगे। इसके साथ ही गहलोत परिवार द्वारा अपने सभी मुकदमों को वापस लेने का फैसला भी दिया गया है। कादियान खाप के बुलावे पर बेरी के राजकीय वरिष्ठ माध्यमिक विद्यालय में रविवार को आयोजित सर्वखाप महापंचायत की अध्यक्षता दहिया खाप को दिए जाने पर दहिया खाप के प्रधान सुभाष दहिया ने महापंचायत की अध्यक्षता की। वहीं सर्वखाप महापंचायत में कवरेज के लिए पहुंचे पत्रकारों और पुलिसकर्मियों के साथ मारपीट भी हुई और एक छायाकार के कैमरे को क्षतिग्रस्त कर दिया गया। गौरतलब है कि गांव ढराणा निवासी रोहतास गहलोत के पुत्र रविंद्र द्वारा कादियान गोत्र की लड़की शिल्पा के साथ शादी करने से भड़की कादियान खाप ने रविवार को सर्व खाप पंचायत बुलाई थी। महापंचायत में 50 से अधिक खापों व जाट समाज के संगठनों के सैकड़ों प्रतिनिधियों के अलावा कादियान खाप से जुड़े लगभग तीन हजार लोगों ने भाग लिया। सर्वखाप महापंचायत में दिन भर चली जिरह के दौरान कई बार नौबत टकराव तक आ गई, जिसके चलते कादियान खाप से जुड़े लोगों ने अन्य खापों के कई प्रतिनिधियों के साथ मारपीट भी की। हालांकि बुजुर्गो व मौजिज लोगों के बीच-बचाव के बाद पंचायत की कार्रवाई सुचारु हो पाई। महापंचायत की कार्रवाई आरंभ होते ही सभी खापों से एक-एक प्रतिनिधियों की कमेटी बनाई गई और कमेटी के निर्णय को मानने पर सहमति भी हुई। कमेटी के प्रतिनिधियों द्वारा फैसला सुनाते ही कादियान खाप से जुड़े सैकड़ों व्यक्ति भड़क गए और फैसले को न मानते हुए मारपीट पर उतारू हो गए। महापंचायत के मद्देनजर जिला प्रशासन ने गहलोत परिवार की सुरक्षा के कड़े इंतजाम भी कर दिए थे। मामले की गंभीरता को देखते हुए जिला प्रशासन के आला अधिकारियों ने भी गांव ढराणा का दौरा किया। महापंचायत में दिल्ली, राजस्थान, उत्तर प्रदेश आदि प्रदेशों से आए प्रतिनिधियों के अलावा अहलावत 27 खाप के जय सिंह, कथूरा बारह से भले राम, गुलिया खाप से सतबीर, दहिया खाप के सचिव रणजीत सिंह, गहलावत के जगदीश मितराऊ आदि प्रतिनिधि भी मौजूद थे। कादियान बारहा खाप की अगुवाई कर रहे राज सिंह कादियान ने सर्वखाप महापंचायत के फैसले को माने जाने की बात कहते हुए सोमवार को एक बार फिर फैसले की समीक्षा के लिए धरनास्थल पर पंचायत करने की बात कही। फैसले के बावजूद धरनास्थल पर खाप से जुड़े लगभग चार दर्जन व्यक्ति मौजूद रहे। महापंचायत में वक्ताओं द्वारा जब-जब भी दोनों पक्षों की बात सुनकर फैसला दिए जाने की बात कही गई तो कादियान खाप से जुड़े व्यक्ति भड़कते नजर आए। इतना ही नहीं फैसले के विरोध में कादियान खाप के लोगों द्वारा किए गए हमले में अहलावत खाप के जगदीप अहलावत, गहलावत खाप के वीरेंद्र एडवोकेट, गांव सिवाना के दिनेश आदि को भी चोट पहुंची। अहलावत खाप के जगदीप अहलावत को जब एक गाड़ी में वहां से निकालने की कोशिश की जा रही थी तो उसे मारने पर उतारू भीड़ से उसे बचाने के दौरान पुलिस विभाग के एसआई पोहप सिंह व सिपाही राजबीर के साथ भी लोगों ने मारपीट की। हिंदू विवाह कानून है सभी विवादों की जड़ : विभिन्न खापों के प्रतिनिधियों ने हिंदू विवाह कानून में मौजूद खामियों को गोत्र विवाद का प्रमुख कारण बताया। अखिल भारतीय जाट महासभा के सचिव युद्धवीर सिंह ने कहा कि सामाजिक मूल्यों की परंपरा को बचाए रखना है तो समाज को एकजुट होकर हिंदू विवाह कानून में बदलाव के लिए संघर्ष करना होगा। कादमा बारह हवेली के प्रधान ने कहा कि जब तक सरकार बिल में संशोधन नहीं करती है सभी खापों के प्रबुद्ध लोगों की कमेटी का गठन कर नियम निर्धारित किए जाएं, जिनसे सभी खापों को अवगत कराया जाए।

VivekGathwala
August 10th, 2009, 07:30 PM
रही बात हत्या की तो जो आदमी खानदानी हो स , उसकी छोरी इसा काम कर दे तो उसके लिए मरने जैसा हो जाता हैं इस लिए वो लोग हत्या करते हैं | नहीं तो अपने औलाद ने मार के कोई राजी कोनी हो | यहाँ जो लोग ऐसी बात कर रहे हैं वो लोग खानदानी नहीं लगते क्योंकि जो खानदानी होगा उसके खून में उबाल जरुर आएगा |

kusumdhochak
August 10th, 2009, 09:18 PM
Khandan murder karne sikhaya karein!!! ya baat tai manne aaj tak bera e na tha!!!

And those who say that this parampara of jats is based on scientific facts, how will then one justify not allowing marriage of Kadyans and gehlawats.. they cannot be genetically connected. And as far as the scientific fact is concerned, people can always convince kids about its harms and dissuade them from marrying within cousins.That won't need such harsh steps to implement. Moreover it is believed (scientifically) that possibility of genetics problems becomes almost zero after 3-4 generations, how do we argue on that basis that in such large villages, (or even for different villages with same gotra) marriages are disallowed on the basis of science. I seriously don't believe that all these panchayats are taking these decisions very scientifically.

rsdalal
August 11th, 2009, 08:19 AM
At last a very reasonable and responsible solution by panchayat.

arvind1069
August 11th, 2009, 12:39 PM
रही बात हत्या की तो जो आदमी खानदानी हो स , उसकी छोरी इसा काम कर दे तो उसके लिए मरने जैसा हो जाता हैं इस लिए वो लोग हत्या करते हैं | नहीं तो अपने औलाद ने मार के कोई राजी कोनी हो | यहाँ जो लोग ऐसी बात कर रहे हैं वो लोग खानदानी नहीं लगते क्योंकि जो खानदानी होगा उसके खून में उबाल जरुर आएगा |

agar itne hi khaandaani hote hai to aatamhatya kyun nahi kar lete. doosre ki hatya kyun karte hai?......ye log khaandaani nahi ego se bhare log hote hai. doosre ko maarne ka haq unhe nahi hai, haan khud ko jaroooor maar sakte hai khushi se

RavinderSura
August 11th, 2009, 12:41 PM
agar itne hi khaandaani hote hai to aatamhatya kyun nahi kar lete. doosre ki hatya kyun karte hai?......ye log khaandaani nahi ego se bhare log hote hai. doosre ko maarne ka haq unhe nahi hai, haan khud ko jaroooor maar sakte hai khushi se
yo to gottar ka rola s jat to unn a rola ho kise gailya to bhi manas maar diya kare ;)

arvind1069
August 11th, 2009, 12:53 PM
Originally posted by AATISH MOHAN [Head of panchayat Raj singh's opinion over gotra marriage:"humari parampra ye kehti hai ki jis gotra ka kheda ho us gotra ke andar ussi gotra ki ladki bhayi hui nahi aa sakti"
I am completely agree with this statement.

ये जरूरी नहीं की सब परम्पराएँ मानव कल्याण के लिए हो. कुछ परम्पराएँ कुरितिअन भी होती है . आदमी को परम्परे का अंधाधुन्द पालन नहीं करना चाहिए, उसे अपने विवेक से सोचना चाहिए की ये परंपरा समाज के कल्याण , हित के लिए है या नहीं, या हम लोग सिर्फ इसे एक भोझ की तरह उठे रहे हैं
कुछ १००-२०० s साल पहले बनी परम्पराओं को तो हम छाती से चिपका कर बैठे है और पुरातन सत्य सनातन वैदिक परम्पराओं को हमने छोड़ दिया है. जिनको आप परंपरा कह रहे है ये ४००-५०० साल से ज्यादा पुराणी नहीं है और हो सकता है वो उस समय के लिए ठीक हो , पर अब उनका अन्धानुकरण ठीक नहीं , परंपरा , कानून समाज कल्याण के लिए है, समाज या मनुष्ये इनके लिए नहीं है.
सब कार्ये धर्मानुसार , यथायोग्ये विचार करके करने चाहिए , न की बस परंपरा के पालन के लिए
जो भी समाज के हित मैं हो उसी को एक नयी परंपरा बना लेना चाहिए , और पुराणी को छोड़ देना चाहिए
वेद् मैं लिखा है की अपने पिता के गोत्र मैं और माँ के कुल की ६ generations मैं विवाह नहीं करना चाहिए ,, इस से ऊपर आपको क्या प्रामाण और परंपरा चाहिए ?
khaap की परंपरा वेद् की परंपरा से तो ऊपर नहीं है न भाई

arvind1069
August 11th, 2009, 01:07 PM
2
7) पूर्ण मुदे का निचौड़ हैं कि हिन्दू कोड में गौत्र प्रावधान न होने पर हिन्दू जाटों को छोड़ दुसरे 80 करोड़ हिन्दुओ को हिन्दू कोड से कोई शिकायत नहीं तो साफ़ अर्थ हैं कि हिन्दू जाट हिन्दू नहीं हैं | वह आर्य हैं और उसकी संस्कृति और धर्म वैदिक हैं |

अगर जाट का धर्म वैदिक आर्य है तो फिर ये खाप उसका पालन क्यूँ नहीं कर रही .
वेद् मैं तो केवल इतना लिखा है की पिता के गोत्र मैं और माँ के कुल की ६ generations मैं विवाह नहीं करना चाहिए .
ये भाईचारे वाली बात कही भी नहीं लिखी गयी ,
खाप नेतो इस नियम को बहोत पेचीदा बना दिया है, उसमे उल जलूल नियम जोड़कर उसे भानुमती का पिटारा बना दिया
एक सीधा सा नियम वेद् मैं दिया गया है, उसे वैसे ही क्यूँ नहीं रहने देते भाई ?
पर अगर ऐसा न करें तो ये खाप अपनी घटिया राजनीती कैसे खेलेंगी ,

anilsangwan
August 11th, 2009, 03:44 PM
पर अगर ऐसा न करें तो ये खाप अपनी घटिया राजनीती कैसे खेलेंगी ,


saachi baat ..... Asli mudda yoh hai..... !!!!!

anilsangwan
August 11th, 2009, 03:45 PM
yo to gottar ka rola s jat to unn a rola ho kise gailya to bhi manas maar diya kare ;)

Ravinder theek kahi bhai :) :) :) :) :)

vicky84
August 11th, 2009, 04:18 PM
yo to gottar ka rola s jat to unn a rola ho kise gailya to bhi manas maar diya kare ;)


Makha pherr ghane e logg munnai us bhiyani aali court main bhi dikhya karein....Haande hain paan nai pitate...

NKharub
August 13th, 2009, 10:05 AM
http://in.jagran.yahoo.com/news/local/haryana/4_6_5701281.html

परम्पराओं को दरकिनार कर होने वाली शादियों(खासतौर पर जाट समाज से जुड़ी) से होने वाले विवादों व ऑनर-किलिंग की बढ़ती घटनाओं को देखते हुए इनकी रोकथाम के लिए केन्द्रीय गृह मंत्री द्वारा कानून बनाए जाने की घोषणा के बाद जाट समुदाय से जुड़ी खापों व संगठनों ने हिन्दू मैरिज एक्ट को निशाने पर लेते हुए परम्पराओं को बचाए रखने के लिए उसमें संशोधन करवाने की खातिर मुहिम छेड़ने का निर्णय ले लिया है। सदियों से चली आ रही परम्पराओं को कायम रखने के लिए जहां पूरे समुदाय को अभियान चलाकर एकजुट करते हुए संघर्ष किया जाएगा, वहीं ऐतिहासिक तथ्यों को जुटाकर दिल्ली उच्च न्यायालय में एक्ट में संशोधन के लिए याचिका भी डाली जाएगी। इस संबंध में रणनीति तैयार करने व उसे अमलीजामा पहनाने के लिए 23 अगस्त को दिल्ली के एक पंचतारा होटल में जाट समाज के लेखकों व बुद्धिजीवियों के अलावा लगभग 3 दर्जन विभिन्न जाट संगठनों के पदाधिकारियों का जमावड़ा लगेगा, जिसमें सिर्फ इसी विषय को लेकर गहन मंथन किया जाएगा। जाट तख्त के महासचिव डॉ. ओमप्रकाश धनखड़ ने पूरे मामले की पुष्टि करते हुए बताया कि 23 अगस्त की बैठक में रणनीति तैयार करने के बाद तथ्यों के साथ मीडिया को भी जाट समाज की समृद्ध परम्पराओं व उनके वैज्ञानिक आधार के साथ अवगत कराया जाएगा। इतना ही नहीं सामाजिक मामलों में विशेष रुचि लेने वाले एडवोकेट चन्द्र सिंह दलाल द्वारा भी हिन्दू मैरिज एक्ट में संशोधन के लिए तैयार की जाने वाली रणनीति पर कार्य शुरू कर दिया गया है और उन्होंने भी सितम्बर माह में रोहतक की छोटूराम धर्मशाला में विभिन्न खापों व जाट संगठनों के प्रतिनिधियों तथा समाज से जुड़े बुद्धिजीवी वर्ग के लोगों की एक महापंचायत आयोजित करने का निर्णय लिया है। महापंचायत की तिथि भी शीघ्र ही विचार विमर्श के बाद निर्धारित कर दी जाएगी। डॉ. धनखड़, पूर्व कमांडर हवा सिंह सांगवान, अखिल भारतीय जाट महासभा के सचिव युद्धबीर सिंह आदि जाट संगठनों के पदाधिकारियों के अनुसार जाट समाज की परम्पराओं को हिन्दू मैरिज एक्ट में स्थान नहीं दिया गया, क्योंकि इस बिल को बनाते समय उनके समाज से जुड़ा कोई भी व्यक्ति शामिल नहीं किया गया था। इतना ही नहीं विभिन्न जाट संगठनों के प्रतिनिधि जाटों को हिन्दू न मानते हुए मूल रूप से आर्य बताते हुए वैदिक धर्म के अनुयायी मानते है और मुख्य रूप से इसी को आधार मानते हुए मैरिज एक्ट में बदलाव चाहते है। इतना ही नहीं अपनी परम्पराओं के संबंध में ऐतिहासिक तथ्यों सहित वैज्ञानिक तथ्यों का भी हवाला दे रहे है। दरअसल परम्पराओं के टूटने से आहत होने के अलावा विवादों के चलते कानूनी दांव-पेंचों में उलझने से होने वाली परेशानियों के चलते ही जाट समुदाय के लोगों ने इस परेशानी की जड़ हिन्दू मैरिज एक्ट को ही माना है। इस संबंध में डॉ. धनखड़ का कहना है कि संविधान निर्माण के समय हर क्षेत्र के जाति व धर्म के आधार पर उनकी परम्पराओं को तो शामिल कर लिया गया लेकिन पश्चिमी उत्तर प्रदेश व राजस्थान के कुछ हिस्से के अलावा पूरे हरियाणा राज्य में बसने वाली जाट बेल्ट की परम्पराओं को संविधान में स्थान नहीं दिया गया और कानून के पक्ष में होने के चलते ही अनेक युगल परम्पराओं को तोड़ने का दम-खम दिखा रहे है।
----------------

Samarkadian
August 13th, 2009, 11:02 AM
http://in.jagran.yahoo.com/news/local/haryana/4_6_5701281.html

इतना ही नहीं विभिन्न जाट संगठनों के प्रतिनिधि जाटों को हिन्दू न मानते हुए मूल रूप से आर्य बताते हुए वैदिक धर्म के अनुयायी मानते है और मुख्य रूप से इसी को आधार मानते हुए मैरिज एक्ट में बदलाव चाहते है।
----------------

PS: Ravi Ji, Laxman Ji, Dnd Ji, Narender Kharab Ji,

Since this is official statement of various representatives including Historians.

My point is:-

1)Shall we stop considering Scythian, Indo-Scythian origion of Jats ? So shall we re-consider what has been written in Jatland Wiki about Scythian?

2) Is Statement in Red true factualy, historicaly , scientificaly and established?

Please be precise and decisive.

yudhvirmor
August 13th, 2009, 11:33 AM
Police is thinking to setup safe houses for these lovers...

For eg. Chora chori gaam main teh baaje. .Sehr main jaa ke rehan laag gaye (Safe house main Police walon ke nigrani main) ..Mama har bhi ek ke gaam main ar Chacha-Bua bhi usse Gaam main..

Gajab ke scheme hai police ke..

On the serious note, We need a brain storming session to resolve this issue because there are almost 10-15 cases coming per month and something has to be changed..
Read the full story below:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/news/india/Haryana-cops-to-set-up-safe-houses-for-runaway-lovers/articleshow/4887806.cms

hoodarajesh
August 13th, 2009, 01:32 PM
2 अगस्त को झज्जर में ढराना गौत्र विवाद के चलते |
7) पूर्ण मुदे का निचौड़ हैं कि हिन्दू कोड में गौत्र प्रावधान न होने पर हिन्दू जाटों को छोड़ दुसरे 80 करोड़ हिन्दुओ को हिन्दू कोड से कोई शिकायत नहीं तो साफ़ अर्थ हैं कि हिन्दू जाट हिन्दू नहीं हैं | वह आर्य हैं और उसकी संस्कृति और धर्म वैदिक हैं |

क्यों बाकी हिन्दुवों में भी एसे ही गोत्र बचाते है क्या . गुज्जरों में भी
एसे ही गोत्र खाप का कायदा चलता है . पंडितो में भी गाँव
या आस पास के गाँव में रिश्ते नही होते . फरक सिर्फ इतना है
की जाट ये सामाजिक बंधन तोड़ने वालो को दंड दे देते है .
और बाकि हिन्दू चुपचाप बैठ जाते है

narenderkharb
August 13th, 2009, 05:01 PM
http://in.jagran.yahoo.com/news/local/haryana/4_6_5701281.html

परम्पराओं की खातिर

झज्जार।
परम्पराओं को दरकिनार कर होने वाली शादियों(खासतौर पर जाट समाज से जुड़ी) से होने वाले विवादों व ऑनर-किलिंग की बढ़ती घटनाओं को देखते हुए इनकी रोकथाम के लिए केन्द्रीय गृह मंत्री द्वारा कानून बनाए जाने की घोषणा के बाद जाट समुदाय से जुड़ी खापों व संगठनों ने हिन्दू मैरिज एक्ट को निशाने पर लेते हुए परम्पराओं को बचाए रखने के लिए उसमें संशोधन करवाने की खातिर मुहिम छेड़ने का निर्णय ले लिया है। सदियों से चली आ रही परम्पराओं को कायम रखने के लिए जहां पूरे समुदाय को अभियान चलाकर एकजुट करते हुए संघर्ष किया जाएगा, वहीं ऐतिहासिक तथ्यों को जुटाकर दिल्ली उच्च न्यायालय में एक्ट में संशोधन के लिए याचिका भी डाली जाएगी। इस संबंध में रणनीति तैयार करने व उसे अमलीजामा पहनाने के लिए 23 अगस्त को दिल्ली के एक पंचतारा होटल में जाट समाज के लेखकों व बुद्धिजीवियों के अलावा लगभग 3 दर्जन विभिन्न जाट संगठनों के पदाधिकारियों का जमावड़ा लगेगा, जिसमें सिर्फ इसी विषय को लेकर गहन मंथन किया जाएगा। जाट तख्त के महासचिव डॉ. ओमप्रकाश धनखड़ ने पूरे मामले की पुष्टि करते हुए बताया कि 23 अगस्त की बैठक में रणनीति तैयार करने के बाद तथ्यों के साथ मीडिया को भी जाट समाज की समृद्ध परम्पराओं व उनके वैज्ञानिक आधार के साथ अवगत कराया जाएगा। इतना ही नहीं सामाजिक मामलों में विशेष रुचि लेने वाले एडवोकेट चन्द्र सिंह दलाल द्वारा भी हिन्दू मैरिज एक्ट में संशोधन के लिए तैयार की जाने वाली रणनीति पर कार्य शुरू कर दिया गया है और उन्होंने भी सितम्बर माह में रोहतक की छोटूराम धर्मशाला में विभिन्न खापों व जाट संगठनों के प्रतिनिधियों तथा समाज से जुड़े बुद्धिजीवी वर्ग के लोगों की एक महापंचायत आयोजित करने का निर्णय लिया है। महापंचायत की तिथि भी शीघ्र ही विचार विमर्श के बाद निर्धारित कर दी जाएगी। डॉ. धनखड़, पूर्व कमांडर हवा सिंह सांगवान, अखिल भारतीय जाट महासभा के सचिव युद्धबीर सिंह आदि जाट संगठनों के पदाधिकारियों के अनुसार जाट समाज की परम्पराओं को हिन्दू मैरिज एक्ट में स्थान नहीं दिया गया, क्योंकि इस बिल को बनाते समय उनके समाज से जुड़ा कोई भी व्यक्ति शामिल नहीं किया गया था। इतना ही नहीं विभिन्न जाट संगठनों के प्रतिनिधि जाटों को हिन्दू न मानते हुए मूल रूप से आर्य बताते हुए वैदिक धर्म के अनुयायी मानते है और मुख्य रूप से इसी को आधार मानते हुए मैरिज एक्ट में बदलाव चाहते है। इतना ही नहीं अपनी परम्पराओं के संबंध में ऐतिहासिक तथ्यों सहित वैज्ञानिक तथ्यों का भी हवाला दे रहे है। दरअसल परम्पराओं के टूटने से आहत होने के अलावा विवादों के चलते कानूनी दांव-पेंचों में उलझने से होने वाली परेशानियों के चलते ही जाट समुदाय के लोगों ने इस परेशानी की जड़ हिन्दू मैरिज एक्ट को ही माना है। इस संबंध में डॉ. धनखड़ का कहना है कि संविधान निर्माण के समय हर क्षेत्र के जाति व धर्म के आधार पर उनकी परम्पराओं को तो शामिल कर लिया गया लेकिन पश्चिमी उत्तर प्रदेश व राजस्थान के कुछ हिस्से के अलावा पूरे हरियाणा राज्य में बसने वाली जाट बेल्ट की परम्पराओं को संविधान में स्थान नहीं दिया गया और कानून के पक्ष में होने के चलते ही अनेक युगल परम्पराओं को तोड़ने का दम-खम दिखा रहे है।

narenderkharb
August 13th, 2009, 05:07 PM
Aryans were a branch of Scythians.



PS: Ravi Ji, Laxman Ji, Dnd Ji, Narender Kharab Ji,

Since this is official statement of various representatives including Historians.

My point is:-

1)Shall we stop considering Scythian, Indo-Scythian origion of Jats ? So shall we re-consider what has been written in Jatland Wiki about Scythian?

2) Is Statement in Red true factualy, historicaly , scientificaly and established?

Please be precise and decisive.

kusumdhochak
August 13th, 2009, 07:12 PM
Many of us think that not letting this couple live in the village is very reasonable. Well I don't think so. Everyone has right to live in his/her village. If someone doesn't like that, don't keep contact with them.
For example, I would not want any one to tell me to leave my village If I believe that I haven't done anything wrong and so does the law. I don't want to be at mercy of someone for even having the right to stay at my birthplace.

Also since so much is going about socially unacceptable marriages, I was wondering what do the panchayats do to people who do intercaste love marriages. Are those people also thrown out of villages?

narenderkharb
August 14th, 2009, 11:10 AM
Our Trust worthy Policemen on the job.

Haryana cops to set up safe houses for runaway lovers
Deepender Deswal, TNN 13 August 2009,



ROHTAK: Blamed for inaction in stopping honour killings by khap (caste) panchayats, Haryana police have hit upon a new idea of setting up secure homes for runaway couples. With senior cops seriously brainstorming over the new plan, an eloping couple may no longer have to go into hiding. A safe place will then shelter them at the nearest town from their village.

Concerned over disturbing episodes of couples being butchered for falling in love, ADGP (law and order) V N Rai said the number of youngsters approaching courts and police was growing. ‘‘With over a dozen such cases being reported each month, we are considering creation of homes where young couples will feel secure,’’ Rai said. The ADGP also promised to take other necessary steps to check such incidents in rural areas, where in the name of khap justice, young couples are being evicted, threatened and even killed.

‘‘After reviewing social and legal aspects in a meeting attended by DGP, IGs and SPs, certain guidelines have been evolved to tackle the menace,’’ he said.

Citing three judgments made by the Supreme Court and high courts forest training khap panchayats, Rai said: ‘‘The police will follow court directives in letter and spirit. It has been decided to hold SPs accountable for ensuring protection to couples after informing the courts concerned.’’

According to an 11-point note prepared by officials in the meeting, the cases will be centrally monitored through coordination by DIG (law and order). It also states that a couple, if major, shall be facilitated to record their versions before a judicial magistrate and security cover will continue even after a protected couple leaves the jurisdiction of concerned SHO, who will be under obligation to convey their status to the next police station.

It also promises to follow trials vigorously for maximum conviction by depending more upon scientific evidence instead of oral statements, provide protection to witnesses and make khap leaders who give illegal calls for tormenting, evicting and killing victims liable for crime.

raka
August 14th, 2009, 04:53 PM
Our Trust worthy Policemen on the job.

Haryana cops to set up safe houses for runaway lovers
Deepender Deswal, TNN 13 August 2009,
.
bhaisaab yo kaam to badiya ho gya eb ghaar bhi sarkar gailya de degi aur gunman bhi ,na ta kama ke len m haanga lagta , bhaisaaab par ya scheme late aai apna time to jaa liya eb k faayada ;)

ranjitjat
August 14th, 2009, 09:01 PM
JIN JATOO NY APNI BAHIN-BETI KI
RESPECT-MARYADA KY LIYE
VEDESI-MUSALMANO SY KITNE YUDH LADE
PADMANI KI LAAJ KO BACHAYA
BHURA-BADAL BANKAR
JAMAL FATTA BAN KAR
YUDH MAE KURWANI DE.
KALANAUR KY KOLE KO TODA.
UN KY SUHAG KI RAKSHA
2-2 PAISE KI PULISIYE KARGY.
GHAR GHAR MAE CHAND MOHMAND
AUR FIZA PADA HONGI
AUR UNKA MUKLAWA- HONEY MOON
POLICE KI SURAKHSA MAE HOGA
YA POLICEYE KARGY- JASE ROHTAK
AUR DUSARE POLICE STATION MAE
HUWA HAE- HOTA RAHA HAE-
HOTA RAHEGA- SHARM KI BAT HAE.
hINDU MARRIAGE ACT KO BADLO.
SARAVKHAP PANCHAYAT KO
DUBARA SY ACTIVE KARO.
3 GOTRA MARYADA AUR
JAT BHAICHARA KO JIWAT RAKO.
HAMARI CULTURE MAHAN HAE
YAH SABHI APNE FUTURE GENERATION
KO SAMJHO KI JAT GANRAJ- PARIVARVAD
GOTRA SYSTEM-PANCHAYAT- KHAP
SARAVKHAP- GAUN RAM KAYA HAE
AAJ KA PARJATANTAR-
PANCHAYATI RAJ HI HAE
LOK RAJ LOK LAAJ SY CHALTA HAE.
STOP HONOUR KILLING
STOP MARRIAGE IN SAME GOTRA
SAME VILLAGE- SAME KHAP
STOP DOWRY- STOP WIFE BURNING
STOP SAME SEX MARRIAGE AS WELL.
READ HISTORY OF SARAVKHAP
MARTYRS AND FREEDOM FIGHTERS
WRITTEN BY
DHARMPAL SINGH DUDEE

narenderkharb
August 14th, 2009, 09:34 PM
AUR UNKA MUKLAWA- HONEY MOON
POLICE KI SURAKHSA MAE HOGA
YA POLICEYE KARGY- JASE ROHTAK
AUR DUSARE POLICE STATION MAE
HUWA HAE- HOTA RAHA HAE-
HOTA RAHEGA-

That is the only worry in entire scheme.

Fateh
October 9th, 2009, 03:44 PM
Marriage is the very foundation of civil society. The relation once formed, the law & the society step in and hold the parties to various obligations & liabilities. It is an institution in the maintenance of which the public is deeply interested because it is the foundation of the family & of society without which there should be neither civillisation nor progress. No doubt, marriage is a voluntary union of one man with one woman to the exclusion of all others. Alien it is not to law, in public and social interest to enact compulsive conditions for such a union. Under the act, marriage is both a contract & sanskaraThe Hindu marriage act is a compromise of customs and manners of marriage in different communities in different parts of the country.The marriage under the code has a religious,spiritual & secular significance.. It creates mutual rights and obligations and confirms status.

Sources of Hindu Law:- Shruti, ( dharam sastras) Smriti (commentries) & costoms. While drafting the Hindu marriage Act some limits have to be prescribedto pervent incestuous marriages and that is why rules in confirmity with the principle of exogamy and eugenics which were all the bases of ancient rules which prohibited marriages between persons belonging to the same gotra or the the same priwara.
Custom & usage:- signify any rule/practice which having been continuously and unifrmly obsered for a long time has obtained the force of law in any local area, tribe, community, group or family, provided the rule/practice is reasonable, certain and not oppose to public policy.

Conditions for a Hindu marriage:-
1) Neither party has a spouse liing at the time of the marriage. or
2) At the time of the marriage neither party is incapable of giving a valid consent to it in consequence of unsoundness of mind or suffering from mental disorder of such a kind or to such an extent as to be unfit for marriage and the procreation of children or has been subject to recurrent attacks of insanty or
3) the bridegroom has comleted 21 & the bride has comleted 18 years of age. or
4) The parties are not with in the degree of prohibited relationship proided the custom or usage governing each of them permits marriage between two. or
5) The parties are not sapindas of each other unless the custom or usage governing each of them permits of a marriage between the two. see next post of mine please

Fateh
October 9th, 2009, 04:43 PM
PART-2 Please read my post on khanp panchayats and Indian judicial system.

PART 3
RIght of every body is there to marry as per his choice but right is always accompanied by the duty/obligation. while enjoying/ taking your right you cannot disturb/harm/pervent/take away some body else right also you have to remain with in the legal and social limits as laid down. Child, insane & person having living spouse also has right/desire to marry but are they allowed, tommarow somebody can say that he/she donnot want use cloths, will people permit such act, tommarow there might be a case where brother & sister want to have their right of this nature, will anybody allow such incident. All our rights and actions do have some legal, social or physical limits which evry one must accept to enjoy his/her rights. If evry body starts enjoying his/her rights without considering others rights than certainly there will be total cofusion , no peace or social order,no discipline, no work, no progress, etc I donnot want to take more time of all, I request every body to think peacefully on the topic again, khanp panchayats are for good of the society & the yougth also, they are part of our calture, people managing khanps are our people & i am sure 99.9% they are not responsible for any killing. Why the law makers have put some ristriction marriage? why not free for all.Khanp panchayat system, religion, judicial system, customs, etc are always started for the good of the society & individuals in the society, however, their functioning may at times be unsuitable to some, human factor is always there. There is a requirement of batter understanding & improvement in the functioning of these panchayats. Regards

rsdalal
October 28th, 2009, 07:15 AM
One more bad news,

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2009/20091028/main6.htm

Another murder over gotra row
Sandeep Yadav
Tribune News Service

New Delhi, October 27
A man was killed by family members of the girl he dared to marry despite being from the same “gotra” and same village, thus defying the khap panchayat order. The couple that lived in the Samalkha area of Haryana had come to visit a friend in the Narela area of Delhi on Diwali night when the incident took place. The matter was reported to the police by the wife of the deceased. The police has managed to arrest four persons from Delhi and Haryana in connection with the case.

According to the police, Virender Singh (24) of Mahara village in Sonepat district of Haryana was murdered by family members of his wife Shikha (name changed) in connivance with two other persons of their village. The incident took place at Sandeep’s house at Narela and later the body was dumped in a canal in the Sonepat area.

“We have arrested four persons, including Shikha’s brother Pawan, in connection with the case. The body has been recovered and the Maruti van used in the crime confiscated,” said DCP Katiyar.

Those arrested have been identified as Daya Singh, Inderjeet and Sandeep, all belonging to Mahara village. According to the DCP, the reason behind the killing was a love affair and marriage by Shikha and Virender with both belonging to the same “gotra”. The DCP said Shikha was also raped by Sandeep and Inderjeet after they ensured that Virender was dead.

According to information, Virender and Shikha, fell in love with each other during school days.

“In 2006, they ran away from their village. A case of kidnapping was lodged against Virender, who was later sent to jail. While Virender was in jail, Shikha was forcibly married to another man, who maltreated her. Shikha left her matrimonial home and started living with Virender in the Samaipur Badli area of Delhi. Later, they got married at Chandigarh. Then they shifted to Samalkha, Haryana, and started living together there,” DCP Katiyar said.

malikdeepak1
October 28th, 2009, 02:54 PM
One more bad news,

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2009/20091028/main6.htm

Another murder over gotra row


Koe ek thodi hai ji?

http://aajtak.intoday.in/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=20496&Itemid=1&sectionid=13&secid=0

Laage raho nu e. Haryane ki shaan me chaand aur sitaare badhte ja rahe hai!

raka
October 29th, 2009, 08:25 PM
Kaal ke akhbaar me is Khabar pe likh rakhya tha ak "juthi ijjat ki khatir " to eb koi en ta nyu bhujaniya ho ke ye akhbaar aalle saachi ijjat Kyaa n maane s ..........

mann123
October 30th, 2009, 08:40 AM
Susre yeh jhangi came from pakistan in ke hode to same gaam bhee kar let thee aur same gotar main bhee. Inka e raaj chalega aage to bhai yeah to same law against same gotra ne bhee oppose kar denge.

There is a law a man can not marry a man and vice versa. Why can't we have a law prohibiting marriage in same gotra? They can justify this even scientifically.

yogeshkalher
November 10th, 2009, 02:30 PM
Kaal ke akhbaar me is Khabar pe likh rakhya tha ak "juthi ijjat ki khatir " to eb koi en ta nyu bhujaniya ho ke ye akhbaar aalle saachi ijjat Kyaa n maane s ..........

Ghankhre akhbaar aale editor panjabi, baniye aur in bargi soch aale paye jan s. in panjabiyan ka koi kalcher to ha nahin, ijjat n ye jante nahin. yeh ladte hain paise khater, Jat ladte hain "ijjat" khater. Jat jis chij n bachan ke laag rahen hain ya inke samajh m na aati.:rock:rock

kusumdhochak
November 19th, 2009, 05:30 PM
lots of people here use very derogatory words for other communities which is very sad...

well, why point to other communities, there are several people here who also believe that all this ijjat business is jhooth and i supprt them. stop blaming others.

rajesh00
November 20th, 2009, 06:49 AM
Females in Jat families remained supressed always.No body took them seriously as regards to their dreams,aspirations,their dignity and so on.They were only told to shut up and walk keeping their heads down.Our girls have been made to carry a very low self esteem and thus have faced the crisis of confidence always barring a few exceptions(from progressive families).Ofcourse marriage in own gotra is bad and young people should desist from that in the larger interest of the society but i firmly believe that Girls and their feelings as regards to her decisions must be respected and honoured.We are in 21 century and JAT mentality is the thing of past.If we wish to move forward then TAKIYANUSHI ideas and rogue thinking must be curbed,Be progressive and move with the times can do the trick.There is nothing so proud in being loud mouth and snobs.

sanjaymalik
November 20th, 2009, 09:12 AM
Dear, progress does'nt means that we forgot our social values, culture, norms, we should also be well aware of all these things. at least we are living in a society.We should educate our children, fellow people that such kind of marriages are not acceptable, not socially even scientifically also .i am also not in favour of honor killing. But there is need to impleament law( little bit in Haryana) which forbid marraige in the same gotra, same villages.

VirJ
November 20th, 2009, 09:27 AM
Dear, progress does'nt means that we forgot our social values, culture, norms, we should also be well aware of all these things. at least we are living in a society.We should educate our children, fellow people that such kind of marriages are not acceptable, not socially even scientifically also .i am also not in favour of honor killing. But there is need to impleament law( little bit in Haryana) which forbid marraige in the same gotra, same villages.


Hi Mate,

I think you didn't read my post carefully!

I am not asking you to forget something. Let me ask you one simple thing.

Say A is from village khadagpur and loves a girl B from village daulatpur. They are dating each other for a few years. Now don't tell me this doesn't happen in haryana or other jatland. He love that girl so much that he can't think of living without her and she feel the same. At present they are in a metro city but when they went back they were told they can't marry because Nani's gotra or something clash. Opppss love doesn't match Gorta !! What should A do? Care for a society(who hardly cares for him) and marry someone else. Thus ruining three lives or should shun this society and marry B and live happily thereafter? I am sure science has nothing to do here and we don't need an Einstein to answer this.

I am still to see when the Jat society will say dowry should be banned and kill or punish those who seek dowry or those who mis-treat the innocent bahu.

sanjaymalik
November 20th, 2009, 10:34 AM
Hi Mate,

I think you didn't read my post carefully!

I am not asking you to forget something. Let me ask you one simple thing.

Say A is from village khadagpur and loves a girl B from village daulatpur. They are dating each other for a few years. Now don't tell me this doesn't happen in haryana or other jatland. He love that girl so much that he can't think of living without her and she feel the same. At present they are in a metro city but when they went back they were told they can't marry because Nani's gotra or something clash. Opppss love doesn't match Gorta !! What should A do? Care for a society(who hardly cares for him) and marry someone else. Thus ruining three lives or should shun this society and marry B and live happily thereafter? I am sure science has nothing to do here and we don't need an Einstein to answer this.

I am still to see when the Jat society will say dowry should be banned and kill or punish those who seek dowry or those who mis-treat the innocent bahu.

Yes Dear might be possible that i didn't read your post carefully but see extract from your post" If two person love each other let them marry and live happily even if they are from same village or gotra or whatever(as long as it doesn't fall under incest relationship)".
Now please also see your present example is also different from what you had said.
I also would like to tell you that Nani's gotra is exempted during marriage.Even in such cases grand mother's or mothers gotra have never been in dispute. It has been only a matter of same gotra or same village .As far as regarding so much love that they can't leave without each other, I think adaptation is the basic nature of human being, if both are mature then they can understand it easly. I have already said that i m not in favour of honor killing, but still got married then they should not be allowed to live in the same village

Jat society is always saying the dowry should be banned. it is less prevailed in our jat society as campare to others. jats never made any demand for dowry and now a days no one is so innocent.

VirJ
November 20th, 2009, 11:04 AM
Yes Dear might be possible that i didn't read your post carefully but see extract from your post" If two person love each other let them marry and live happily even if they are from same village or gotra or whatever(as long as it doesn't fall under incest relationship)".
Now please also see your present example is also different from what you had said.
I also would like to tell you that Nani's gotra is exempted during marriage.Even in such cases grand mother's or mothers gotra have never been in dispute. It has been only a matter of same gotra or same village .As far as regarding so much love that they can't leave without each other, I think adaptation is the basic nature of human being, if both are mature then they can understand it easly. I have already said that i m not in favour of honor killing, but still got married then they should not be allowed to live in the same village

Jat society is always saying the dowry should be banned. it is less prevailed in our jat society as campare to others. jats never made any demand for dowry and now a days no one is so innocent.


Hi Friend,

I pick up nani's gotra just an example as this was an issue in one of the posts. It can be dadi's gorta or can be same village or can be nearby village or can be same gorta as long as its not an incest relationship. The question still remain the same. But you answered as I expected. You say as long as they leave the village jat society has no problem with them? Is that what you want to say?
I just want to know why we can't allow them to live in the same village but have no problem if they live in nearby village?


Also what does this mean "As far as regarding so much love that they can't leave without each other, I think adaptation is the basic nature of human being, if both are mature then they can understand it easly".

You mean to say A shouldn't marry B?? if yes, than y only individual has to adept why not society sometimes adept as per individual need?

Also you say jat never made any demand for dowry appears very naive to me? I bet they do!! ;). I know lot of marriages are decided on how much can they give us? which car? blah blah. You might be different but how can you say on behalf of whole community when everyone knows that it does exist. Go to any marriage so that you can see dowry exchange!!

The first thing often they ask after the marriage is " Bahu to thik he are nu bata kitne ek de diye"

Again this is not directed at you dost but at our society in general. Also I know there are a few who are against dowry and other social evils but trust me only a few.

sanjaymalik
November 20th, 2009, 12:14 PM
Hi Friend,

I pick up nani's gotra just an example as this was an issue in one of the posts. It can be dadi's gorta or can be same village or can be nearby village or can be same gorta as long as its not an incest relationship. The question still remain the same. But you answered as I expected. You say as long as they leave the village jat society has no problem with them? Is that what you want to say?
I just want to know why we can't allow them to live in the same village but have no problem if they live in nearby village?


Also what does this mean "As far as regarding so much love that they can't leave without each other, I think adaptation is the basic nature of human being, if both are mature then they can understand it easly".

You mean to say A shouldn't marry B?? if yes, than y only individual has to adept why not society sometimes adept as per individual need?

Also you say jat never made any demand for dowry appears very naive to me? I bet they do!! ;). I know lot of marriages are decided on how much can they give us? which car? blah blah. You might be different but how can you say on behalf of whole community when everyone knows that it does exist. Go to any marriage so that you can see dowry exchange!!

The first thing often they ask after the marriage is " Bahu to thik he are nu bata kitne ek de diye"

Again this is not directed at you dost but at our society in general. Also I know there are a few who are against dowry and other social evils but trust me only a few.

Do you think that neaby villagers will allow them to live in their village. No there is no room for such couples in country side or dehat ,they must move to metros where their love grows, because only in metro people can accept them not in villages.

on the point of chage in society it would be difficult to change huge no. of peoples then a single person these are based on value, social norms tat keeps peoples intact. it would be better to change individual himself if he is against the law of land.

Execption are always there, there are many families those do not accept and demand dowry.

VirJ
November 20th, 2009, 12:58 PM
Execption are always there, there are many families those do not accept and demand dowry.


And regarding dowry, I think its still a huge problem and main reason behind baby girl's killing. What does other people in the forum think?

SANDEEP5
November 20th, 2009, 03:15 PM
And regarding dowry, I think its still a huge problem and main reason behind baby girl's killing. What does other people in the forum think?



Bhai sahab ghoom phir ke ek hi baat aa jaati hai -
"Dusra Bhagat singh to paida ho jaaye lekin hamare ghar me nahi ho, padosiyon ke yahan ho"

No one want to change these traditions. Agar koi apni ladki ki shaadi karta hai to apne ladke ki shaadi me saari kasar puri karna chahta hai ki jitni dowery di hai uski double wo apne ladke ki shaadi me vasool le.

Santoshi mata ka vrat to rakh lenge par apne ghar me ladki ho iske liye nahi balki ladka ho jaye iske liye...............

ravinderjeet
November 20th, 2009, 03:48 PM
kuyon khaam khaa kheechan laagrey ho ,sab ne baraa se key honaa chaahiye er ke naa.jo saamajik maan maryaadaa naa maantaa eebb wo apney baalkaa ke time sub kuchh maanjaa se.

rajesh00
November 20th, 2009, 03:49 PM
Chahe kharbooja chakku pe girre ya chakku kharbuje pe...katna tou kharbuje ko hi hei."It is Women who has suffered and is suffering in the end".Men are immune to social traditions and their applications.The theme is always women and that is dangerous precedence.It must change and sooner the better.

sanjaymalik
November 20th, 2009, 04:43 PM
they can live only in metros b'coz of cosmopolitan culture, where no one knows who is our next door neighbour, even if something happened wrong then no will ask what happened. No one will dispute their identity or gotra.

or what are the source of law?, these customs, social norms are the main source of law at least hindu law. Hindu law is based on customs. hence not be married with in the same gotra or same village are our custums and it is our duty to be preserved them by following such custom. and abstain from such marraiges.

sanjaymalik
November 20th, 2009, 05:28 PM
i am strongly against dowry and marraige between the same gotra and same village even gohand , what i have said above is only in that case if due to immaturity or out of passion couples get married, then they should not be given punishment like death.
"Like bhramins, punjabis, maharastrain and many others"

Ho sorry then if you want to adopt the culture of these peoples as you have exampled.

rajesh00
November 20th, 2009, 07:50 PM
रोचक !!!..... देखो कानून खाप के सामने झुकता है या फिर खाप कानून के सामने...



What is this khap?

ravinderjeet
November 21st, 2009, 07:45 PM
bhai jab tanney khaap kaa koni beraa er jat custom kaa bhi koni beraa pher kuion khaam khaa iss site nu bhaandan laagrayaa se.

rsdalal
November 23rd, 2009, 05:50 AM
I think it is other way around, Majority supports Khap view that is why administration does not take any action, or politicians does not say any thing, in this regard.
Khap rules are democratically made rules accepetd by majority of people. I do not understand why people bend to live in the same villege if they can not abide by law of land. Khap is just asking if you can not abide leave the villege. They are not comming after anybody. Media just potrays wrong picture of a very true democratic system in place from ages.

jitendershooda
December 7th, 2009, 10:54 AM
Now it comes in Yadav's too. The same Panchayat again in action. Hope the media will take a note of it and make the necessary corrections in mentioning Jats only. Its the traditions of this area (irrespective of caste) fighting with changing youth.
__________________________________________________ ______
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2009/20091207/haryana.htm#10

Gotra Trouble again
Village elders seek to undo the knot
Nawal Kishore Rastogi
Rewari, December 6
Agitated village elders held a panchayat at Manethi village, 25 km from here, today to devise a way to seek the dissolution of the marriage of village youth Sunil Yadav (22) to village girl Sarla Yadav (21).
Sheotaj Yadav, husband of woman sarpanch Suman Yadav, former sarpanch Ganga Dutt, Dr Kailash Yadav, nambardars Mahipal and Mahabir Singh, panch Harish Narain and other prominent residents participated in the panchayat, which was also attended by Sunil’s father.
A hefty police force was present at the venue to ward off trouble.
Meanwhile, following a complaint faxed by the girl to the DGP, appropriate police protection has been provided to the couple’s families in the village.
Simultaneously, the couple has shifted to Delhi where they are living in hiding.
The village has been tense eversince Sarla Yadav, a constable in the Delhi Police, and Sunil Yadav, a property dealer, tied the knot at an Arya Samaj Mandir at Jamna Bazaar in Delhi on November 13. A senior police official said if the villagers persisted in their ways, legal action would be initiated against them.

Samarkadian
February 4th, 2010, 01:10 PM
Something in a terrible mess nowadays. Especialy people marrying with Gotra issues and then Khap Panchyats coming with a danda of punitive judgement. Saga is continous, sadly. Before jumping in to conclusion, just notice that this is not prevalent with Jats only. Last week 3 cases poped up. One of them is from Dhanak community while another two are from Jats.

http://in.jagran.yahoo.com/epaper/index.php?location=8&edition=2010-02-04#



कविता ने उन लोगों की गिरफ्तारी और सजा दिलाने की भी मांग की, जिन्होंने उसे उसके पति से अलग रहने का फरमान सुनाया है। इस मौके पर उसके साथ उसका भाई संदीप, संजय, कृष्ण कुमार के अलावा जनवादी महिला समिति की राज्य अध्यक्ष जगमति सांगवान व संगठन की अन्य सदस्य भी मौजूद थी। एसपी ने शिकायत सुनने के बाद उसे सुरक्षा मुहैया करवाने व पुनर्वास का आश्वासन दिया। उन्होंने कहा कि पीडि़त परिवार को सम्मानपूर्वक फिर से गांव में स्थापित किया जाएगा। यह भी सुनिश्चित किया जाएगा कि उन्हें किसी तरह की परेशानी न हो। जनवादी महिला समिति ने कविता को पूरा समर्थन देने व उसके कंधे से कंधा मिलाकर पंचायती फरमान के खिलाफ लड़ने की घोषणा की है। समिति की राज्य अध्यक्ष जगमति सांगवान ने बताया कि कविता की लड़ाई में समिति उसके साथ रहेगी। इस मौके कविता खाप पंचायत पर जमकर बरसी। उसने पंचायत पर सवालों की बौछार की और पंचायत की कार्यप्रणाली को कटघरे में खड़ा किया। एसपी कार्यालय के बाहर हुई बातचीत में कविता ने कहा कि यह कहां का और कैसा फैसला है कि पति-पत्नी को भाई-बहन बनाया जा रहा है। यह फैसला सुनाने वाली पंचायत सतीश से उसकी शादी होने के समय कहां थी। शादी समारोह में शामिल होने वाले बाराती व पंचायती उस समय कहां थे, जो आज उन्हें भाई-बहन बता रहे हैं। पीडि़त ने पंचायत के इस फैसले को सरासर गलत करार देते हुए अमानवीय बताया। कविता ने कहा कि उनका क्या कसूर है जो शादी के दो साल बाद पंचायत उन्हें अलग करने पर आमादा है। उनके दस माह के मासूम रौनक का क्या कसूर है जो उसके पिता से अलग करने का फरमान सुनाया गया है। कविता ने पंचायत पर सवाल दागते हुए कहा कि क्या पंचायत के पास इस बात का जवाब है कि वह अपने बेटे को कैसे पढ़ाएगी। स्कूल में उसके पिता का नाम क्या लिखवाएगी। पंचायत ने अपने फैसले ने मासूम के भविष्य के बारे में एक बार भी नहीं सोचा। पंचायत ने मासूम रौनक के होश संभालने से पहले ही उससे पिता का प्यार छीन लिया है।


बेरवाल-बैनीवाल खाप को भी फैसले पर मलालमहम (रोहतक), संस : सतीश व कविता के ढाई साल के वैवाहिक जीवन के बाद खेड़ी-महम की पंचायत द्वारा पति पत्नी से भाई बहन बनाने के फैसले पर प्रदेश स्तरीय बेरवाल-बैनीवाल खाप के मौजिज लोगों ने भी अफसोस जताया। दोनों खाप के प्रमुखों ने सतीश व कविता के साथ न्याय करने के लिए शुक्रवार को महम में खाप प्रतिनिधियों की मीटिंग बुलाई बैनीवाल गोत्र की कविता व बेरवाल गोत्र के सतीश के बीच पति पत्नी के रिश्ते को भाई बहन के रूप देने के बाद आ रही तीखी प्रतिक्रिया पर गौर करते हुए बुधवार को बेरवाल खाप के प्रधान शमशेर सोरखी व बैनीवाल ... खाप के प्रधान डा. वेदपाल जींद महम शहर पहुंचे और फैसले पर अफसोस जताया। दोनों खाप प्रधानों ने माना कि ढाई साल के बाद सतीश व कविता के साथ सामाजिक फैसला करने में खेड़ी-महम पंचायत द्वारा जल्द बाजी की गई है। बैनीवाल खाप के प्रधान डा. वेदपाल जीन्द व बेरवाल खाप के प्रधान शमशेर सिंह ने बताया कि कविता-सतीश को लेकर दोनों खापों के मौजिज व्यक्ति शुक्रवार को महम शहर में एकत्रित होंगे। जिसमें सतीश-कविता को सामाजिक दंड देने वाली खेड़ी-महम पंचायत की 21 सदस्यीय कमेटी से विचार विमर्श किया जाएगा।


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फरमाणा मूल रूप से सहारण-मंदेरणा गोत्र बहुल्य गांव है। गांव में बूरा गोत्र के भी सैकड़ों परिवार हैं। सहारण व बूरा गोत्र के बीच भाई चारे के कारण एक दूसरे के गोत्र में विवाह वर्जित है। बताया जा रहा है कि समुन्दर सहारण ने गत एक नवंबर को विधिवत रूप में मांग भराई की रस्म के साथ अपनी बेटी का रिश्ता बूरा गोत्र के नवीन से तय किया था। लेकिन शादी की यह बात गत दिवस सामने आते ही गांव में बवाल शुरू हो गया। बूरा गोत्र के मौजिज लोगों ने समुन्दर के घर जाकर इस रिश्ते पर एतराज जताया और रिश्ते को तोड़ने की अपील की। लेकिन समुन्दर ने सभी रस्म पूरी होने सहित शादी का दिन बेहद नजदीक होने की वजह से रिश्ता तोड़ने में असमर्थता जताई। बुधवार शाम को बूरा गोत्र के लोगों ने गांव की मुख्य चौपाल में मेजर बीर सिंह की अध्यक्षता में पंचायत बुलाई। पंचायत ने अन्य किसी फैसले से पूर्व समुन्दर सिंह से रिश्ता तोड़ने की अपील की और बूरा-सहारण गोत्र के भाईचारे का वास्ता दिया। लेकिन समुन्दर ने रिश्ता तोड़ने से साफ मना कर दिया। आखिरकार पंचायत ने सर्व सम्मति से समुन्दर की लड़की की शादी नवीन से किसी भी सूरत में नहीं होने देने का फरमान सुनाया। तय हुआ कि पंचायत बृहस्पतिवार को गांव बूढ़ा खेड़ा जाकर नवीन के परिजनों से बूरा व सहारण गोत्र के आपसी भाईचारे का हवाला देते हुए गांव बारात नहीं लाने का अनुरोध करेगी। इसके बावजूद यदि नवीन बारात लेकर आएगा या समुन्दर लड़की की शादी कहीं दूसरे स्थान पर जाकर नवीन के ही साथ करने का प्रयास करेगा तो पंचायत ऐसा किसी भी सूरत में नहीं होने देगी। चाहे पंचायत को समुन्दर के घर पर पहरा ही बैठना पड़े। पंचायत में गांव की छत्तीस बिरादरी के सैकड़ों मौजिज व्यक्ति शामिल हुए। पुलिस उप अधीक्षक राम अवतार ने कहा कि फरमाणा में भी उठे गोत्र प्रकरण की उन्हें कोई जानकारी नहीं है। यदि कोई शिकायत आई तो परिवार को सुरक्षा दी जाएगी। अपनों ने किया बखेड़ा : अपनी लाडली की डोली सजाने को आतुर समुन्दर सिंह ने बताया कि उसने बड़े बुजुर्ग से बातचीत करने के बाद बेटी की शादी बूरा गोत्र में तय की थी। लेकिन तीन सप्ताह पूर्व पारिवारिक घटना क्रम के चलते उसके नजदीकी परिजनों ने गोत्र के नाम पर बखेड़ा खड़ा कर दिया। उसके परिवार की एक महिला व पुरुष इसके लिए सबसे ज्यादा जिम्मेदार हैं। समुन्दर ने कहा कि यदि पंचायत को मर्यादाओं की इतनी ही चिंता है तो वह उसकी बेटी के लिए योग्य वर तथा नवीन के लिए वधू ला दे, पंचायत की शर्ते मान ली जाएगी।

kusumdhochak
February 4th, 2010, 07:13 PM
A few things:
1) Passing such rules as leave the village/ break the marriage etc are not ever going to solve this problem and will just end up ruining/ending some lives which is by no means something that can be ignored.
2) The problem of same village marriages is not going to be a big happening/problem anytime soon. And it can be limited very easily by just making the kids aware of the culture. Although one can not very logically say why shouldn't such marriages be allowed because in big enough villages, many families are not connected for several generations back. But still people may choose to agree to some kind of customs and sometimes may not, which doesn't seem very probable atleast rightnow.
3) Not allowing marriages in a different village which has same gotra is something which we really should now give up for the sake of betterment of society as there is no way of logically defending it and it is not doing any good to anyone and there is no reason for any fear as there are societies which don't have such rules and are happy, prosperous, civilized, educated without suffering any harms. There have been many instances in history when several of cusoms and beliefs had to be changed according to the need of time and logic (for example purda which is again a custom doing no good to anyone (quite a lot of harm though) and cannot be continued just for the sake of customs).

4) Regarding love marriages, which people think should be broken because of the gotra problems..
Love marriages are not at all easy to make and it is generally very very difficult to find someone whom you feel you love and can take a decision to spend whole life togther. There are so many people who would like find that person but their surroundings won't have such people. And those lucky ones who are able to find one, please let them live happily. They won't get that chance again. Otherwise why would people want to stick to the people they love despite so much harassment coming from all sides.

Samarkadian
February 6th, 2010, 11:21 PM
Its good to know for the first time that Khap Panchyat has corrected the foolish mistake of announcing conteroversial gotra marriage couples as brother-sister. I am at peace and glad that small kid would spend his life with both of his parents .

http://in.jagran.yahoo.com/epaper/index.php?location=8&edition=2010-02-06#


पति-पत्नी को भाई-बहन बनाने के अटपटे निर्णय लेकर चौतरफा किरकिरी का सामना कर रही खेड़ी-महम पंचायत शुक्रवार को अपना फरमान कुछ हद तक बदलने को राजी हो गई। सतीश व कविता को पति-पत्नी के तौर पर रहने की इजाजत तो दे दी, लेकिन यह दंपति अपने गांव में नहीं रह सकेगा। पंचायत ने सतीश के पिता से हुई बदसलूकी के लिए भी माफी मांगी है। ये फैसले शुक्रवार को हुई बैनीवाल और बेरवाल खाप की पंचायत में किए गए। असल में ये फैसले तो दोनों खापों ने लिए और मुहर लगाई खेड़ी-महम की पंचायत ने। बताते चलें कि इसी पंचायत ने 30 जनवरी को सतीश और कविता को पति-पत्नी का रिश्ता तोड़कर भाई-बहन बनने का हुक्म दिया था। सतीश के पिता को जूता मुंह में लेकर माफी मांगनी पड़ी थी।

annch
February 7th, 2010, 02:14 AM
Finally....:)
The khap panchayat corrected its own verdict? Did the panches provide apology to Satishs' father in the same way as they had made him do?

Its good to know for the first time that Khap Panchyat has corrected the foolish mistake of announcing conteroversial gotra marriage couples as brother-sister. I am at peace and glad that small kid would spend his life with both of his parents .

http://in.jagran.yahoo.com/epaper/index.php?location=8&edition=2010-02-06#


पति-पत्नी को भाई-बहन बनाने के अटपटे निर्णय लेकर चौतरफा किरकिरी का सामना कर रही खेड़ी-महम पंचायत शुक्रवार को अपना फरमान कुछ हद तक बदलने को राजी हो गई। सतीश व कविता को पति-पत्नी के तौर पर रहने की इजाजत तो दे दी, लेकिन यह दंपति अपने गांव में नहीं रह सकेगा। पंचायत ने सतीश के पिता से हुई बदसलूकी के लिए भी माफी मांगी है। ये फैसले शुक्रवार को हुई बैनीवाल और बेरवाल खाप की पंचायत में किए गए। असल में ये फैसले तो दोनों खापों ने लिए और मुहर लगाई खेड़ी-महम की पंचायत ने। बताते चलें कि इसी पंचायत ने 30 जनवरी को सतीश और कविता को पति-पत्नी का रिश्ता तोड़कर भाई-बहन बनने का हुक्म दिया था। सतीश के पिता को जूता मुंह में लेकर माफी मांगनी पड़ी थी।