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View Full Version : These NEW "Internet Trolls" on dear ol' Jatland!



shailendra
August 4th, 2009, 11:20 PM
Okay the object of this thread/post was is to cover the utter sadness of a typical 'Internet troll' and how we may well have a few of those here itself .... (more so recently) soiling the sanctity of the platform that is Jatland.

For those who are new to this term 'Internet Trolls'; Usually, a troll is nothing more than a passing nuisance, :mad: but, as this thread will show, they can be a worry (stalkers). However, it is almost invariably an inadequate individual who can be safely ignored.

By this post hopefully we can define their activity, and help with early recognition; because let's face it - once imbedded, trolls can take up residence, and, like athlete's foot, can be difficult to shift. This would maybe come in handy to manage these very sad thirteen year olds that have gone loose on their Mom's computer. ;):rolleyes::cool:

What Is A Troll?

The term derives from "trolling", a style of fishing which involves trailing bait through a likely spot hoping for a bite. The troll posts a message, often in response to an honest question, that is intended to upset, disrupt or simply insult the group. :boxing

In Internet slang, a troll is "someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional or disciplinary response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion!" :mad:

Usually, it will fail, as the troll rarely bothers to match the tone or style of the group, and usually its ignorance shows.

Why do trolls do it?

It is believed that most trolls are sad people, living their lonely lives vicariously through those they see as strong and successful.
Disrupting a stable newsgroup gives the illusion of power, just as for a few, stalking a strong person allows them to think they are strong, too.

For trolls, any response is 'recognition'; they are unable to distinguish between irritation and admiration; their ego grows directly in proportion to the response, regardless of the form or content of that response. (we know of one here that ...'never gets it'!) :D

Remember that trolls are cowards; :D they'll usually post just enough to get an argument going, then sit back and count the responses (Yes, you all know that's what they do and there's enough stuff around recently that proves that!).

How can troll posts be recognised?

No Imagination - Most are frighteningly obvious; sexist comments on women, blasphemy on religious groups .. I kid you not.
Pedantic in the Extreme - Many trolls' preparation is so thorough, that while they waste time, they appear so ludicrous from the start that they elicit sympathetic mail - the danger is that once the group takes sides, the damage is done.
False Identity - Because they are cowards, trolls virtually never write over their own name, and often reveal their trolliness (and lack of imagination) in the chosen ID. As so many folk these days use false ID, this is not a strong indicator on its own!
Crossposting - Any post that is crossposted to several groups should be viewed as suspicious, particularly if unrelated or of opposing perspective. Why would someone do that?
Off-topic posting - Often genuine errors, but, if from an 'outsider' they deserve matter-of-fact response; if genuine, a brief apposite response is simply netiquette; if it's a troll post, you have denied it its reward.
Repetition of a question or statement is either a troll - or a pedant; either way, treatment as a troll is effective.
Missing The Point - Trolls rarely answer a direct question - they cannot, if asked to justify their twaddle - so they develop a fine line in missing the point.
Thick or Sad - Trolls are usually sad, lonely folk, with few social skills; they rarely make what most people would consider intelligent conversation. However, they frequently have an obsession with their IQ and feel the need to tell everyone. This is so frequent, that it is diagnostic! Somewhere on the web there must be an Intelligence Test for Trolls - rigged to always say "above 150"

Who is at risk?
Any newsgroup, bulletin board, forum or chatroom can attract trolls, but they don't have the brains to attack nuclear physicists, and they are drawn to the quick response where sex, religion and race are found; so politics and close-knit community forums (like Jatland) are easy prey.

When Should You Be Concerned?
Usually, no, though fractured funny bones and occasional waves of nausea have been reported.

When a troll become persistent and personal, you may need to consider the possibility that it has fermented into an Internet Stalker - equally pathetic, if not more so - but sometimes requiring weedkiller.(we should also watch out for other 'imaginative' loonies too - some like-minded similarily idiotic folks can be 'suspicious'!)

What should a Moderator do???
The key to a successful forum is the moderator; and the key to troll eradication is probably a low key affair. I am sure they believe in waiting till something doesn't gets really nasty to take the action (poor folks; they have been accused of being quick on the gun lots of time before, and one can understand their delimma :(); but guys please; if intervention is required, act quickly, quietly and effectively. There are two rules for moderators that they ignore at their own peril:

You loyalty is to the Jatland forum, no member is above that
So moderators ...please remember that whatever a troll does, you can undo much more quickly before it starts making the regular members and especially the women members start shunning the Jatland Site!!! :o

...and in conclusion I guess one doesn't need to emphasize why taking a bit of your time to read this post is a very important post for all members here:
Remember folks; Trolls can be costly in several ways. A troll can disrupt the discussion on a newsgroup, disseminate bad advice, and damage the feeling of trust in the close knit internet community like ours.

[ps. Furthermore there are harmful side-effects too; in a group that has become sensitized to trolling — where the rate of deception is high — many honestly naïve questions may be quickly rejected as trollings. This can be quite off-putting to the new user who upon venturing a first posting is immediately bombarded with angry accusations. Even if the accusation is unfounded, being branded a troll is quite damaging to one's online reputation]...

So let's all shun, ignore, and stay away from being slyly instigated by these trolls and when nothing else... and if needed; raise our collective voices to ask moderators to step-up effectively against these 'troll cowards' and have them thrown out from our dear Jatland site!...

shailendra
August 6th, 2009, 08:08 PM
...well, seems the moderators have been taking a bit of positive actions on these 'trolls'... good for em'...

...and then I still feel the post is a must read for all of us against getting unduly involved with such miscreants in the future:
The best medicine is ignore, avoid their posts (or responding to them; remember that's what they are looking for), and/or getting into a no-win slinging match with them.... because like someone had mentioned on one of the posts 'first they will pull you dooooowwwwn to their 'level', and then win by experience!' :D

shailendra
August 6th, 2009, 09:04 PM
Though this is a very-very old cartoon....
but thought would be highly appropriate here! ;)

VJ
August 6th, 2009, 09:43 PM
Shailendra bhaisahab....indeed an eye opener for me :eek: ........and an informative one also....

But ...again...another awesome post by you ;).....

Now it seems to me....sometime i also act like a troll :rolleyes:(not exactly...as mentioned :D) .....and its kinda sad but i have got guts to admit...what i am....good or bad...whatever......

But a big applaud to you....for such a good article.....hopefully everybody is going to learn something from this ( as i did)...:)

cuz.....there is a troll, deep inside, in everyone :D....and whenever its gets an oppoutunity.....it control our mind.....and intentionally or unintentionally we do what we dont want to do....:(

And ..all the points...as mentioned by you to check these trolls.....i am completely in favour...

And to create a healty enviroment ....these trolls need to be terminate.....:boxing

And this one by me...for myself......i am gonna try my best ..to avoid being a troll next time around.....:cool:

Again...a very good post Sir.....:rock ....

dahiyarules
August 6th, 2009, 11:04 PM
'Internet Trolls'; can be safely ignored.



Thats what I have been doing. for me these idiots don't even exist.

anilsinghd
August 6th, 2009, 11:51 PM
Exactly right Shail! Patience is a virtue! :)

jitendershooda
August 7th, 2009, 11:35 AM
You are very Right Shailender. Also I was able to read and understand it completly your post today :) (english was of my level .. he he)
ha ha ha ... cartoon is superb as usual. Ghane ee ise honge khoon phookaniye ispe baith ke ... kaiyan ne to personal dushmani paal li hade batla batla aachi bhundi ... er ghane ee recognised members bhi iss troll ne badha rahe hein with their false ids.

malikdeepak1
August 7th, 2009, 02:57 PM
Though this is a very-very old cartoon....
but thought would be highly appropriate here! ;)

तोड़ पाड़ दिया भाई कार्टून का तो.. हा हा हा हा हा हा .. मेरा तो हान्स हान्स के पेट दूख लिया जमा | :D :rock:rock:rock:rock

brahmtewatia
August 7th, 2009, 03:47 PM
communication is meant to affect things like "beliefs" nd "knowledge"... nd people engaging in communication always hv goals regarding tht communication. even if it is harmful to discuss or criticize these goals often times going meta in a communication... this can never negate their existence.

tht's why we have both "manslaughter" and "murder" on the books.

thot !!! how to differentiate btwn a "mollad" and/or a "troll" ?... are they two facets of the same coin ???

shailendra
August 7th, 2009, 10:06 PM
I wanted to clarify a few bits here… and also in order for this ‘Trolling’ be NOT confused as related with ‘general arguments’ or 'disagreements'! [We all know that could be just a misunderstanding between the individuals and usually gets sorted out between the two without too much heartburn for the site and/or (in the larger picture) for any other site-members to have to jump in! ;)]

BUT look, by this thread I simply want us to NOT be blinded or confused by that (an entirely dissimilar) issue and 'miss' recognizing the REAL trolls sometimes....

Troll as specified would simply be that singular individual who (rather than generally agreeing to disagree) deliberately looks for trouble and/or creating one, uses instigating words, phrases to start an argument! (“Refugee hai kae!?!” or maybe even nonsensical and silly poetry that tries to disrespect everyone and/or use the most controversial subjects like race, patriotism and sexism to get an opportunity to start a disturbance!)

Then please know the person is ‘fishing’ for it and is that typical ‘Troll’ defined at the start of the thread!
These are the very same sort of individuals who do not get it (or feign to ‘not get it’) and the more people align up against them on a thread (albeit them trying with funny/humorous, angry, or sometimes simply irritated words) the more it makes the person charged up and happy about the situation! :cool:
(If observed carefully one can instantly see their instant glee in the follow-up posts...)

[Here I would also like to point out those spineless third-party ‘trolls’ too, that would do nothing themselves but use words or encouragement instigating further war of words between any two individuals by saying things to the affect of, “Buss ab dekho wo chup nahee baithega!” etc. etc. Isae-isae 'bhaand' bhi ude mil jaangae!]

We need to be careful against both types!

Let’s simply isolate and force these non-entities out by providing no response to their pathetic tries to start an argumentative dialogue!
Simply do not post there, or respond to them, or get pulled into a one-o-one conversation and rather simply just move on…

JUST KNOW by doing just that... that thread [(or their singular post(s)] would simply die a natural death therein!

poonam
August 8th, 2009, 03:25 AM
We need to be careful against both types!



Got it... Thx..:D



seriously...I would just ignore 'em....

annch
August 8th, 2009, 07:54 AM
Shailendra,
Awesome cartoon, as always...:)...and thanks for highlighting the issue.
Don't you think JL already has a way to deal with this issue? Trolls can/do create nuisance. Several members, besides mods, do check behaviour of trolls- some via humor, others with more curt posts, or by reporting these objectionable posts that ultimately results in a ban on the rogue member.
Can we give these trolls an element of doubt? There may be a method in the madness of the trolls. They may be raising genuine concern that they are not able to elucidate well with their limited language skills.
On similar lines as what Brahm and others have suggested, would it not help to stick to "point" of the discussion and not "writer" of the discussion?
Regards,

annch
August 8th, 2009, 07:56 AM
Brahm,
The mighty spirit of Troll does not even spare the sophisticate!
Regards,



thot !!! how to differentiate btwn a "mollad" and/or a "troll" ?... are they two facets of the same coin ???

VJ
August 8th, 2009, 09:29 AM
uses instigating words, phrases to start an argument! (“Refugee hai kae!?!” or maybe even nonsensical and silly poetry that tries to disrespect everyone

[Here I would also like to point out those spineless third-party ‘trolls’ too, that would do nothing themselves but use words or encouragement instigating further war of words between any two individuals by saying things to the affect of, “Buss ab dekho wo chup nahee baithega!” etc. etc. Isae-isae 'bhaand' bhi ude mil jaangae!]




Thanks for elaborating :)

brahmtewatia
August 8th, 2009, 04:19 PM
hmm great ideas emerging (con's)... trolling continues on next page, to talk about the pro's.

brahmtewatia
August 8th, 2009, 04:20 PM
i’m not trying to undermine the efforts of author shail (… appreciated in all earnestness), nd it’s also not my intention to exaggerate the issue just for the heck of it. having said tht, i still feel the the word “troll” is too big a definition for a portal like JATland… or in other words, we can say tht JL is not tht worth a portal to invite these “trolls” every now nd then. although i’m not as senior a member, as many out here, but still i can say with confidence tht incidences of a “troll” fishing at JL are very rare nd might be one off.

while it is understood tht only the psychics among us will know what is in the mind of any given author (troll), it is possible to derive to an acceptable approximation what kind of intent is at work, given sufficient material nd interaction. well in the recent case, its for sure the intents were clear nd he was indeed a “troll”. as I say this, pls don’t forget tht in other cases (more common than trolling), the miscreant can be some old “भटकती आत्मा” with fake id trying to sort out old pending issues or a “मोलड”. the fact, however remains tht we can't nuke everybody tht we don't like, so we must find ways to live with them.... nd as mentioned by anju above, the members have their own way(s) to sort them out… tht to me is the bottom-line.

may be pulling the wings off the flies has lost its charm… the point of contention tht i’m trying to bring out is tht you can derive something worth out of a total nonsensical musing(s)… or else the portal becomes dull nd monotonous. lets take the example of recent thread wch had the presence of a “troll”… I guess almost everybody rebuked the utter nonsensical idea but there were folks who enjoyed the thread as great timepass… including me, though my outburst was nowhere irascible or out of frustration but was intended to add a bit of humor. there were others who were amazed by the imagination of the idea nd carved out a very nice post. mr. khraab said it to be the most beatoofool post (<<< thts his words) nd supported it whole heartedly… though in humour (???). किसी ने टमाटर मारे, और किसी ने उसे रेहडी आगे सरकाने के लिए कहा. he even got the उपाधि of sdo sahab, stalin, gorbachev etc etc. some even went ahead to get the idea even patented… c’mon folks what else you can get out of a “time pass thread”… very obviously it was 1000 times better than the political blabbering tht dominated JL for several months.

brahmtewatia
August 8th, 2009, 04:21 PM
न्यू हडे घने हाँ मेंबर ट्रोल तै कम हैं के.

brahmtewatia
August 8th, 2009, 04:51 PM
Brahm,
The mighty spirit of Troll does not even spare the sophisticate!
Regards,ahahaha lucky escape... turkmenistan was formed before he cud have taken a t(r)oll on me.

shailendra
August 8th, 2009, 10:39 PM
i’m not trying to undermine the efforts of author shail (… appreciated in all earnestness)

We can't nuke everybody tht we don't like, so we must find ways to live with them.... nd as mentioned by anju above, the members have their own way(s) to sort them out… tht to me is the bottom-line.

… the point of contention tht i’m trying to bring out is tht you can derive something worth out of a total nonsensical musing(s)…

lets take the example of recent thread wch had the presence of a “troll”… I guess almost everybody rebuked the utter nonsensical idea but there were folks who enjoyed the thread as great timepass… including me

Inputs are always welcome of course, Brahm! ;)

You seemed to have missed that I am ALSO encouraging folks to 'avoid', 'ignore' and 'move on'....:D
[and ahhhh well,...I guess also try and derive 'any' worth out of a total nonsensical musing(s) at their own peril too!!!… :D]

I wasn't making an effort to somehow hand out licenses to simply identify people or folks one doesn't like and then have them somehow 'nuked' (whatever that means in this scenario- after all not all are moderators here!) by any stretch of the imagination- but more on the lines to recognize and be aware of those ones that are obviously spoiling for a fight/argument and always on PURPOSE in a clearly recognizable way!

Okay chalo to use the same example that you mentioned for clarity purposes; Some folks (including you, like you mentioned) must have enjoyed the premise of the thread - and I personally didn't have any problems with the main theme itself - but what was atrocious and I really took exception to was the author's way of baiting every small, big and sundry that didn't happened to like his crazy idea with an immediate, 'Refugee hai kae?" or similar sort of comments and in that very deranged manner... and of course everyone has their level of sensitivity as to what they allow someone to tell them on a public site or not; (I BTW have zero tolerance myself when it comes to that) and agreed didn't have it flung at me directly or anything; BUT after reading thru sincerely felt that the individual for example clearly fell under a typical 'troll' category!... [and unless I am mistaken it seems that he has been sorted out already and accordingly too!:rolleyes:]

So anyways, and like I said it was not directed at me (or even you I think) but we cannot be bystanders all the time too, can we?...think of the poor folks (our fellow members) who clearly got it first hand and didn't deserve that sort of disrespect (and remember most likely a lot of new, young-members can easily get cowered right off the site by such blatant confrontation and troll-like baiting, which could most likely be said to border almost on harassment!)

I immediately felt the need to start this thread as this sort of attitude(s) have suddenly started to threaten the peace of the site and are contrary to what I think Jatland has been and we, I for one (who've been members for a long time here) felt (misguided or not, u can decide) responsibilty that there's a potential problem here especially with that sort of an attitude, and maybe can somehow in some way show support to the 'abused' :rolleyes: fellow members and hopefully stop the harassment by discouraging the elements and empowering the genuine folks who have their hearts in the right place, to please try and completely avoid responding, ignore if baited and simply move on!

...and yes, if that way any such particular thread dies in the process, then so be it!!! Good riddance!!!....

amans
August 9th, 2009, 02:22 AM
communication is meant to affect things like "beliefs" nd "knowledge"... nd people engaging in communication always hv goals regarding tht communication. even if it is harmful to discuss or criticize these goals often times going meta in a communication... this can never negate their existence.

tht's why we have both "manslaughter" and "murder" on the books.

thot !!! how to differentiate btwn a "mollad" and/or a "troll" ?... are they two facets of the same coin ???

I agree. No one has right to set an agenda for jatland as it belongs to all jats. Who is o decide what is a bad post and what is a good post? If you don't like a post, don't reply.

akshaymalik84
August 9th, 2009, 01:00 PM
I hope every forum at JL is an open forum.
In a loose sense, an open forum is any space in which people may exchange information and ideas. The term is also used to refer to a specific meeting or event. An open forum is intended to be a venue in which people can gather to find out about a specific issue, reach a resolution on a controversial subject, or interact with members of their communities. Often, officials and representatives (Moderators) are present at an open forum to answer questions from the public, facilitate the discussion, and provide information which people may find valuable or useful.
The idea of the open forum is very important in social sites, since it allows members an opportunity to speak out about things which concern them. An open forum also allows users to have influence in their communities, by giving them a vote in major community decisions. An open forum may offer members an opportunity to vote on proposed development, allocate community values and funds or participate in their communities in other ways.

Although an open forum is intended to be a space in which free speech is exercised, there are restraints. People are expected to behave politely, although they are welcome to disagree with each other. Violent words or actions are not condoned in an open forum. If the author of a forum or any participant feels offended by any comment by other user he has right to complain it to authorities. Or can simply avoid the person. As a general rule, the open forum must be open to everyone, regardless as to gender, creed, or economic status or the level of thinking or knowledge.

Everyone has their own purpose to visit Jatland.We can not define others.

kapdal
August 10th, 2009, 05:09 PM
but what was atrocious and I really took exception to was the author's way of baiting every small, big and sundry that didn't happened to like his crazy idea with an immediate, 'Refugee hai kae?" or similar sort of comments and in that very deranged manner... and of course everyone has their level of sensitivity as to what they allow someone to tell them on a public site or not; (I BTW have zero tolerance myself when it comes to that)

Shailendra,

Agree that everyone has their threshold. Also agree that "Refugee hai ke" is quite an unacceptable comment. But what about your post #63 on this page?
http://www.jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27882&page=5

Well yeah, comparatively speaking, that guy expressed himself in a rather unsophisticated way (though one must acknowledge that that is the usual Jat way); nevertheless I see both cases as making unwarranted personal comments. One surely can't brand one as sense of humor and the other as a deranged comment without coming across as a hypocrite. And look, the point is not to say that you are equally guilty. As Brahm said on his thread on civilized discussion, everyone has an off day. The point is that we can't always rely on moderators/rules (formal or informal) to ensure a healthy atmosphere. We would all be better served if everyone speaks on the contents of a post rather than making personal comments. Once your threshold is crossed, it is difficult to ignore and then a tit for tat ensues.

I would also stick my neck out and say that in terms of "Value at Risk" a greater danger to JL comes from the senior members rather than these "trolls". Simply because senior members have much higher capactity to cause damage. It is quite obvious when someone is trolling. You can simply ignore the person and his threads or complain to the moderators. Or show visual opposition. Which is what lots of people did in the case of this guy. No one thinks twice about replying back to a new entity. But how many people are keen to show their opposition when a respected, senior member with some fan following indulges in unacceptable behavior? In your case, though I did get some PMs saying how it was in bad taste, etc., not a single person said on the thread that it was objectionable. And I don't blame them- it is quite natural. Whatever time I have spent here, I have seen quite a few cases where a relatively new member has been almost hounded out by the active/old members who also tend to gang up. Who would a troll gang up with? And I am sure these old members have contributed a lot to the site in terms of their participation. But the danger to the site (and to themselves by extension) is of them treating it like their "territory" where everyone needs their acceptance. In that light, I'd be happier for JL to be an "open forum" where members, new and old alike, have their say with freedom and responsibility, rather than relying on policing or any set of formal/informal rules.

Regards,
Kapil

PS: As you can see with regards-rugards and other such efforts, I am definitely not spoiling for a fight on purpose...:)

shailendra
August 10th, 2009, 11:11 PM
Good that some posts EVEN on this thread itself prove the theory that how important it is that one be able to DIFFERNTIATE between those one-on-one arguments/discussions/disagreements of two mature individuals VERSUS that other real danger (actually being discussed here), against some ‘Troll’ disrupting the sanctity of a site!

and to directly quote myself again from earlier:
"I wanted to clarify a few bits here… and also in order for this ‘Trolling’ be NOT confused as related with ‘general arguments’ or 'disagreements'! [We all know that could be just a misunderstanding between the individuals and usually gets sorted out between the two without too much heartburn for the site and/or (in the larger picture) for any other site-members to have to jump in! ]"

One recognizable point raised by the post is that maybe senior members here could well be playing truant too at times; but then again the fact that they have a track record here, have contributed so often, are respected for their views (have a ‘fan’ following, whatever that means – not by the number of posts or years spent here, mind you, but for the content of their posts and inputs!) and tying in with the main argument under the topic; can hardly be confused with ‘someone out to create diversersion/disruption on the site’ like a ‘Troll’.

So- still think ‘trolls’ are a huge nuisance to us all (even including all that are posting here and maybe quite agreeably, not so ruffled by the need to shun, avoid and regulate these ‘characters’)!

The rest of the above post, do I really need to respond??? (or should I follow the self preached adage of avoid, ignore and move on!) Mind you no smilies here this time from me; I am NOT trying to dilute the seriousness of my statement [and/or be a bit humorous simply to lighten the mood]

That trying to pamper anyone licking their ol’ wounds, or trying to politely correct them calling their own PMing friends ‘backboneless’, or reacting to accusations of hypocrisy (when they themselves preach for understanding/accepting a deviant when wouldn’t ever be remotely likened as one) is for another thread or another time maybe (even if) and in any case I personally dislike using that usual mongoloid lame of an excuse ‘I am a Jat too; so I shall be aggressively defiant in each of my responses, duh!’ to be automatically licensed for retaliation …as I think there is much to be said about proving to the other castes (that accuse us of the same) that we can be refined JATS too!

So while not naively requiring mental support by PM's but the needed intelligence to stay mum and rather continue on with a thread… hoping and praying in the meantime that we all can stop being cry-babies, mature/grow-up and move on without having to unnecessarily go looking for sympathy on open-wounds and/or spill dirty linen in almost every new thread we author, even elsewhere!

ps. In any case, going back to the main theme of the thread- I feel learning to at least recognize a troll (and also his abused ‘prey’) is actually pretty valuable because if not then one can make quite an ass of oneself by inadvertently jumping into an argument between two folks; wherein one obviously trying to defend himself from a troll by throwing back an ‘agreeably sneaky’ (if quite well timed, I must say) query, “Tell me what is a ‘Dalal’?” [obviously trying to tie-in/refer to that universally understood meaning of the word by most and more importantly in order to shut up the ‘deranged’ guy in this particular case] is corrected out of 'loyalty', rather than be defended…
...But then ah well, we all here are those typical 'aggressive Jats' that need to retaliate on everything after all, aren’t we?

…and we all live and learn!

sidchhikara
August 11th, 2009, 01:03 AM
Few characteristics of trolls.
Age: 18-25
Membership status: Very new

How it ends: If they troll for more than a week... it means they are not interested in staying on JL, otherwise they stop in a day or two.

There will always be new members who will come in and troll a little bit ... there is nothing we can do about it. There is a little troll in all of us.

kapdal
August 11th, 2009, 04:49 AM
Good that some posts EVEN on this thread itself prove the theory that how important it is that one be able to DIFFERNTIATE between those one-on-one arguments/discussions/disagreements of two mature individuals VERSUS that other real danger (actually being discussed here), against some ‘Troll’ disrupting the sanctity of a site!

and to directly quote myself again from earlier:
"I wanted to clarify a few bits here… and also in order for this ‘Trolling’ be NOT confused as related with ‘general arguments’ or 'disagreements'! [We all know that could be just a misunderstanding between the individuals and usually gets sorted out between the two without too much heartburn for the site and/or (in the larger picture) for any other site-members to have to jump in! ]"

One recognizable point raised by the post is that maybe senior members here could well be playing truant too at times; but then again the fact that they have a track record here, have contributed so often, are respected for their views (have a ‘fan’ following, whatever that means – not by the number of posts or years spent here, mind you, but for the content of their posts and inputs!) and tying in with the main argument under the topic; can hardly be confused with ‘someone out to create diversersion/disruption on the site’ like a ‘Troll’.

So- still think ‘trolls’ are a huge nuisance to us all (even including all that are posting here and maybe quite agreeably, not so ruffled by the need to shun, avoid and regulate these ‘characters’)!

The rest of the above post, do I really need to respond??? (or should I follow the self preached adage of avoid, ignore and move on!) Mind you no smilies here this time from me; I am NOT trying to dilute the seriousness of my statement [and/or be a bit humorous simply to lighten the mood]

That trying to pamper anyone licking their ol’ wounds, or trying to politely correct them calling their own PMing friends ‘backboneless’, or reacting to accusations of hypocrisy (when they themselves preach for understanding/accepting a deviant when wouldn’t ever be remotely likened as one) is for another thread or another time maybe (even if) and in any case I personally dislike using that usual mongoloid lame of an excuse ‘I am a Jat too; so I shall be aggressively defiant in each of my responses, duh!’ to be automatically licensed for retaliation …as I think there is much to be said about proving to the other castes (that accuse us of the same) that we can be refined JATS too!

So while not naively requiring mental support by PM's but the needed intelligence to stay mum and rather continue on with a thread… hoping and praying in the meantime that we all can stop being cry-babies, mature/grow-up and move on without having to unnecessarily go looking for sympathy on open-wounds and/or spill dirty linen in almost every new thread we author, even elsewhere!

ps. In any case, going back to the main theme of the thread- I feel learning to at least recognize a troll (and also his abused ‘prey’) is actually pretty valuable because if not then one can make quite an ass of oneself by inadvertently jumping into an argument between two folks; wherein one obviously trying to defend himself from a troll by throwing back an ‘agreeably sneaky’ (if quite well timed, I must say) query, “Tell me what is a ‘Dalal’?” [obviously trying to tie-in/refer to that universally understood meaning of the word by most and more importantly in order to shut up the ‘deranged’ guy in this particular case] is corrected out of 'loyalty', rather than be defended…
...But then ah well, we all here are those typical 'aggressive Jats' that need to retaliate on everything after all, aren’t we?

…and we all live and learn!

Firstly, let me say that there is no argument that trolling is NOT a nuisance. It is. Since you had pretty much put down everything under the sun on trolls here, I guess other members (including myself) are just trying to give alternate views. The reason I posted what I posted was not to lick old wounds or the other associated fictitious reasons given by you, but just to contextualise the risk posed by trolls versus those posed by old/active members. As you and other members have suggested here, there are several ways of dealing with trolls. In fact, they are dealt with as well, and whatever online forums I have seen, JL would score above average in terms of dealing with trolls. As pointed by some other members, it is one of the by-products of having an open forum. The point I was making was that given their relatively new status and lack of any public support, their capacity to cause damage is very low. On the other hand, unacceptable behavior by old/active members is the proverbial elephant in the room that no one wants to look at. The mention of the PMs (getting something is very different from requiring it) was to highlight this lack of will in confronting a truant senior member rather than your derived reasoning about the strength of someone's spinal chord.

The presence of experience, credentials and popular support doesn't guarantee right behavior, but ensures that the seniors are not held accountable when the behavior is wrong. The recognition of this point is not to deny the due respect to senior members, but only to qualify it. The example given by me was to show that how an offensive behavior from a troll can be similar in content to offensive behavior by a senior member. The latter is only more harmful (Think of an analogy- what theft would hurt a neighbourhood more- by some outsider thief or by a member of the neighbourhood?). And I'd like to stress that this was only an example, the phenomenon itself is quite rampant. I won't be shocked if someone pulls out a similar unprovoked, offensive behavior on my part (disappointed with myself, yes, but not shocked).

I completely disagree with the "Dalal" example you gave vis-a-vis dealing with trolling. Are you saying that it is okay to shut up a deranged troll by acting in an even more deranged manner than him? I am on board with the ignore, avoid and move on approach, but surely not for this. Moreover, the individual on who the question was directed, Ajit Singh Dalal, doesn't deserve the troll tag at all. These guys were indulging in some leg pulling on a time pass thread, where one called Manish Rana as Manisha and the other asked him the origin of Dalal surname. Certainly not exemplary behavior, but hardly deserving a troll tag. Which brings me to my next point- how many actual trolls there really are on JL, thinking right now, I can classify at most 3 people as trolls. Which only reinforces for me the need to stress on objectionable behavior by normal members, rather than focus on trolls. As far as my intervention on the "Dalal" point was concerned, it was not based on "loyalty" (if it helps, I have had significant disagreements with Ajit Dalal on record here and my mother being a Rana didn't help either). I intervened as I felt like pouring cold water on a kiddish fight by giving a factual reply with a straight face to a rhetorical question. It was my belief that a real jat won't go too far in making fun of another jat's surname, not on a public forum at least. I would like to believe that it worked as that argument died there- you may like to believe that I acted like an ass. No stress!

I'd definitely follow the adage preached by you and ignore the rest of the stuff you came up with as a response to my post. I saw it on the other thread that it is pointless clarifying your position when the other party just wants to play to the gallery by attributing fictitious arguments to you. (Hitting back though was a natural instinct- NOT arguing it is right/wrong, just saying it comes naturally probably BECAUSE of being a Jat. Quite different from- "I am a Jat too, so I shall hit back.")

PS: I have made my point regarding the need to contextualise a nuisance like trolling with respect to a problem that I perceive to be much more serious and much more rampant. I have elaborated on this on another thread. I won't argue further if you started this thread purely to discuss trolling and perceive my intervention as pointless/ill-intentioned. If that is the case, I am sorry. You may also get the posts deleted if you want.

shailendra
August 11th, 2009, 10:07 AM
...Okay look Kapil; your inputs (or anyone’s elses like I had said, here or anywhere on my posts on the site) are always most welcome!!! remember the thread may have just been started by me... but don't think I am not glad that it helps identify more such possible alternatives and such....

Trust me when I say the 'unacceptable behavior' you apparently seem to continually find more serious and offensive than some deranged (and-now-banned) troll's blatant sinister baiting about refugees and such; (I mean come on, Jats actually don't really use that style of speech) is in all agreement - really a downrightfully shameful act! ...and I confess I completely feel for ya bud, and at the same time categorically deny any personal gain by involvement and rather feel jaroor ismae kisi videshi takaton ka haath tha!... :mad:

Jokes apart; look, something like that is usually hurtful/harmful to no one else sensibilities except maybe the two folks (usually) involved therein at most; forget the site as a whole, cause even it's other members (the incidental PM's aside) frankly don't give a hoot on prescribing how thick one's hide needs to be... if anything their popcorn and beers are simply to enjoy the ongoing mudslinging!
So news-flash --- one's gotta simply self-heal and if nothing else - probably learn to take it a bit more sportingly next time!...more so especially if you yourself have been around for a while (and apparently play some real thought-provoking poker elsewhere to be tough enough! ;))! and in all fairness probably fully understand most of the regular players here and their ribbings anyways!!!...

Also truth be told; I was sincerely hoping not have to myself bring up my almost immediate, albeit sheepish - acceptance (of what I had then agreed) was an 'uncalled-for' quip, and the 'peace-offering' cartoon thereafter! But frankly it does sadden me that you seemed to have completely overlooked even remotely considering that part to then mutually forgive, forget, and move on; not only then ...but continually since!!! :confused:... If I didn't know better I would think it is usually only with the more 'reasonably inclined' folks that one feels the urge to try and prove a thing or two about one-upmanship! [cause I somehow fail to see you carrying such a 'oh-my-gosh-it-is-reeeealy-a-looong' grudge with some 'troll' here!?! (see? Uh,... also trying to stay on-theme too, ol' chap!) :D]

Okay so listen; let bygones be bygones, trust me I too have been there and done that on the 'receiving end' (Remember? not new on Jatland!:cool:) and it's frankly not really worth the heartburn, at least not this long; now lets 'un-flog' the dead horse, bury the hatchet and all that... so we can now amiably move on after this and I for one can surely hope that you would feel encouraged enough to respond freely on all my future 'excitingly wonderful', playing-to-the-gallery posts, all over again!!! [and oh yes of course, you shall definitely be duly getting my 'fan-form' by PM later!] ;)

...and Let's pledge to stay 'Troll-free'!!! :D

brahmtewatia
August 11th, 2009, 01:53 PM
... but just to contextualise the risk posed by trolls versus those posed by old/active members.

... and whatever online forums I have seen, JL would score above average in terms of dealing with trolls.

... The point I was making was that given their relatively new status and lack of any public support, their capacity to cause damage is very low. On the other hand, unacceptable behavior by old/active members is the proverbial elephant in the room that no one wants to look at.

... The presence of experience, credentials and popular support doesn't guarantee right behavior, but ensures that the seniors are not held accountable when the behavior is wrong.


Okay so listen; (1) let bygones be bygones, trust me I too have been there and done that on the 'receiving end' (Remember? not new on Jatland!:cool:) (2) and it's frankly not really worth the heartburn, at least not this long; (3) now lets 'un-flog' the dead horse, (4) bury the hatchet and all that... so (5) we can now amiably move on after this and I for (6) one can surely hope that you would feel encouraged enough to respond freely on all my future
...
...and Let's pledge to stay 'Troll-free'!!! :D

in all the meaning(s) that one can comprehend <<< tht's my answer to abv highlighted RED... i mean Troll-Free atmosphere.

the vicious circle of arguments nd counter-arguments + explanations can n'vr STOP... you have yr own defined chances to pick up sarcasm frm evry single (reply) post tht you reply nd make it a reason to reply back further... remember yr perceptions are yr own with yr COPYRIGHT stamp on it.

i request both respected sr. members shail nd kapil to stop it once for all. JATland deserves a lot from you... "let the good sense prevail" nd i am sure no one among you is devoid of that.

p.s. : ... nd i'll carry on to derive my "worth" out frm a total non-sensical musing(s)... at my peril (... as long as i n'joy nd is TROLL-FREE)

brahmtewatia
August 11th, 2009, 02:06 PM
remember e=mc2 was interpreted in so many ways. the issue's are higher nd stakes paramount when 2 sensible souls collide... afterall we all JAT's travel with the speed of light nd while doing so, lets not go back in time nd prove einstein correct... its more fun to defy n 'ol ruling dictum/theory.

p.s. : ... guess m not trolling.

shailendra
August 11th, 2009, 10:53 PM
[FONT=Century Gothic][COLOR=#0000ff]p.s. : ... nd i'll carry on to derive my "worth" out frm a total non-sensical musing(s)... at my peril (... as long as i n'joy nd is TROLL-FREE)

... :D! 'At your own peril' is right!... but more importantly as long as we can recognize the elements and deal with them in some way or forms, (either our own, or collectively as a forum,... and/or also as pointed out thru other creative reasonings and posts here)!

Baki kripya apni sabhee 'blogging' ki jaankariyon kae liye kripya call karein 1-800-JATLAND ('Troll'-free number!) J/K ;)

brahmtewatia
August 12th, 2009, 06:14 PM
... but more importantly as long as we can recognize the elements and deal with them in some way or forms, (either our own, or collectively as a forum,... and/or also as pointed out thru other creative reasonings and posts here)!
... peace finally returned to planet JATland nd everybody strated living peacefully hereafter... pledging to make JL - a "troll"-free planet in all the conceived meaning(s) of the word.

brahmtewatia
August 12th, 2009, 06:15 PM
"space... the final frontier". these are the voyages of the JATship enterprise. its n'vr ending mission: to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life and new trolls, to boldly go where no man has ever gone before.

... this is captain b. prakashit tewatia, while thanking captain spock (leonard nimoy) nd dr. mccoy (deforest kelly)... [err shail nd kapil] taking you off frm JATland enterprise to another expedition to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life forms and new trolls nd.................... the saga continues till a new troll hits JATship enterprise.

brahmtewatia
February 26th, 2010, 03:26 PM
... taking you off frm JATland enterprise to another expedition to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life forms and new trolls nd.................... the saga continues till a new troll hits JATship enterprise.
i thank moderators for opening this thread. it conveyed a meaning nd had opinion(s) of many worthy members.

i've collected few quotes of members on the subject... which says it all ! cos, here we hit again with more or less the same problem... well, you guessed it right, this time we are talking of... Bhaand’s


communication is meant to affect things like "beliefs" nd "knowledge"... nd people engaging in communication always hv goals regarding tht communication. even if it is harmful to discuss or criticize these goals often times going meta in a communication... this can never negate their existence.

tht's why we have both "manslaughter" and "murder" on the books.

thot !!! how to differentiate btwn a "mollad" and/or a "troll" ?... are they two facets of the same coin ???



Look, the important thing to observe here is that some folks are simply like ‘Bhaand’s’ (after trolls:D)….apna ‘Dhol’ sa liye kisi bhi (read : all) threads pae post kare ja sein, phaer koi respond kare bhi ka na……………………
Aer phaer eeb India ki unnati kae liye ennae koi “uzephull” kaam karan ka phokatt time milta bhi ho to kyunkarr!?!... Saara din to ude beet ja hai… (girtae hue baalan mein saande ka tael la bhait ja hein computer dhore, doosrae bhatkae hue logan nae uksa-uksa kae baaniye ki dhaal mazaa lein khatir!!!)...


Few characteristics of trolls.
Age: 18-25
Membership status: Very new


Thats what I have been doing. for me these idiots don't even exist.

Brahm,
The mighty spirit of Troll does not even spare the sophisticate!
Regards,

while it is understood tht only the psychics among us will know what is in the mind of any given author (troll), it is possible to derive to an acceptable approximation what kind of intent is at work, given sufficient material nd interaction. well in the recent case, its for sure the intents were clear nd he was indeed a “troll”. as I say this, pls don’t forget tht in other cases (more common than trolling), the miscreant can be some old “भटकती आत्मा” with fake id trying to sort out old pending issues or a “मोलड”.

brahmtewatia
February 26th, 2010, 06:15 PM
Think before making any loose comments. It is a site where we want to carry out an intellectual discussion on the different subjects. I only hope a good sense prevails; and I am not beaten by people because of their EXPERIENCE.col sir,

my apologies again to drag you on this thread as well. please appreciate my reasoning as i've a point to convey and it makes sense that i do so on this thread.

in my brief stay at JATland, i would like to broadly classify members in two categories...

1. those who have time and nothing to lose.
2. those who don't have time, but everything to lose.

those in category 1, in my opinion are called as bhaands.

you are the one who lie in category 2 and trust my words, i also strive hard to see myself in category 2.

i appreciate all your sincere and untiring efforts to make this portal worth its dignity. do you know, why i see a fear (दहशत) in your above post... its because of those, whom i've categorized in category 1 above.

you are not one such person, who can resort to few gestures that can take care of these 'bhaands'... i can do that ! but still (of recently) i realized a bit of handicap in me, cos of my advancements towards category 2. i guess, i cannot go to those extreme limits that will put myself in category 1 as well... hence my (controlled) outburst on that thread. there is a famous JAT saying... "when everything fails... लट्ठ prevails".

also, please appreciate that it wasn't any ego issue for me over there. my 1st post on that thread (duly supported by sid chhikara) was just a reminder to folks who hop from one extreme to another within a flick of a second. refer post >>> post # 135 (http://www.jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?29554-India-giving-us-stiff-competition-Obama&p=240843&viewfull=1#post240843)... all that happened afterwards is history... i was not the one, who started the issue... instead, i was the one who was dragged in the issue. please dont hold me culprit for that... cos i really care for few persons, and of their opinion for me.

its because of those outlined in category 1, that many other senior and sensible members refrain from posting anything on this portal.

... pardon me, if i've spoken anything out of my shoes.

shailendra
February 26th, 2010, 09:56 PM
Why should any thread, this great valuable site or anything related to discussion between fellow jats here be derailed and hijacked by any irresponsible, uncouth, illiterate ....and 'Bhaand' or Troll like elements??? WHY?...:mad:

Why do the more respected, intelligent and well meaning senior members here forced to then immediately implore with a, “stay on topic”, “please don’t get ‘personal’, “let not ego’s come in-between for the sanctity of the site”…each and every time some new a$$(s) starts crapping all over the place with some deep rooted frustration, some illogical point to prove (thrust down the throat of other members) and with a huge chip on their inferiority complex of shoulders??? WHY?... :confused:

There is only one possible way (as also outlined in this thread about trolls before): lets’ recognize such elements, point them for who they are (which becomes instantly visible anyways, one can mark them for their constant, insistent, 'always-on-similar-lines' kind of baiting tactics)… and immediately alienate them without responding to their obvious baiting, vicious postings that may be (in recent cases) either be about their own sick mentality on sleaze porn and/or some deep-rooted jealousy targeted at a certain fellow populace, community, or people…and more importantly to also be able to see and identify the Narad-muni like bhaand qualities in certain folks that immediately come support such useless talks by adding their own (sic) laugh similes and thereby exposing the fox-like sly behavior with nothing useful to contribute [other than evilly snapping back on personal terms when called on their own game (as was again visible recently)]…

It has been amply demonstrated in full in more than one “popular” (or should I say ‘unpopular’) threads by now…and come on folks, it does not take rocket science to spot such (above mentioned) individuals…
...On an ending note on this particular post; I would like to humbly thank all such members who had the guts to call out on such unacceptable behavior, also thanks to the ones that have been unfortunately bitten and baited into such viciousness (please keep patience and move on…simply discard, alienate them!) and tried to push back against such unfair tactics, ….and lastly maybe thanks also to the ones that did not give a flying hoot what these uncouth individuals had to say and kept on trucking with equal vigor and energy in their (sometimes very funny) superlative posts without getting derailed into a direct confrontation with these trolls… I can literally put names for each of these above mentioned groups and great worthy members[/B]… ah well, but then you my fellow Jatlanders already you know who you are… so take a bow and keep at it!] :o

Finally: [I]Bhaands are the new Trolls here and we would always continue to get new ones, (that just comes with the territory on such internet sites :rolleyes:) … BUT then the spirit of Jatland and its long attached list of great and valuable members and awesome discussions are ample proof and testimony enough that such uncouth individuals would die a natural blogging death once they have no more deadly venom and unfriendly ideas to spew and would soon be relegated to the unknown internet obituaries; wherein a few months from now no Jatlander would even remember who they were or whether really such useless characters that had nothing to contribute for the unity of Jats, ever really trolled these pages!!!... :)

singhvp
March 1st, 2010, 01:13 PM
A lot of acrimonious polemics has already taken place involving this thread with some members calling others "uncouth", rustic aur na janee kya kya........... The tone and tenor of some of the members seems to be very autocratic giving an impression as if the site is not a social/community forum. It is ather a private territory with a big notice board " Tresspassers will be prosecuted". Are Bhai instead of flaunting your craftsmanship in prose, you people come forward with some progressive and positive ideas for welfare of the community. Try to be accommodating and magnanimous. Let people express themselves. If you do not find anything useful, just ignore. So calm down folks. Try to be positive humble and magnanimous. things will come on the right track automatically. Jo nadaan Bhai thhoda bahut esa vaisa likh deten hain unko samjhao pyar se. Do not take your "Jeli" out.

brahmtewatia
March 1st, 2010, 02:41 PM
singh sahab you are new to this portal.

you got no idea, as to what extent these trolls can go. i've witnessed the most filthiest of language on this portal, that you cant even guess in your wildest of imagination. all these write-ups on this thread is not someone's craftmanship or something out of illusion... it has come from real experience.

also, you've got no idea, to the sort of nuisance and havoc these trolls can create for moderators. we earlier discussed about trolls and now the (lesser harmlful though...) annoying bhaands... making poop jokes to get attention, often getting uglier by making themselves feel less puny by taking a bite out of your ankle.

the worse comes when their arguments start becoming ad hominem (playing the man not the ball)... and that's where the problem comes. it’s human nature to admire authority, but it’s also human nature to resent it. if you stand out and speak with confidence, you become a target.

... nd then there are those, who dont want themselves get beaten by some idiot's experience. but, would cry 'foul' and try to shower wisdom on others and claim to carry the baton for the community. but, have no actions to back up their claim to be the preachers of whats right and >>> whats now ?... these are the one's, when having the opportunity to help someone... they backed-off (sic).

but, will pop up every now and then to give folks their pearls of wisdom. look, there is no one trying to get an upper hand on anyone else. its just an issue of who's being real and who's being a fake on this forum !!!

i dont blame you, for your exuberance towards this community and this portal... a very typical for a new member. so, mr. v.p. singh of sidhanwa (bhiwani) now in kuala lumpur... please control your emotions. dont get judgmental nd calm down, take a deep breath, hold on !... and release it slowly... and i'll follow you for that matter.
v
v
v
calm down, take a deep breath, hold on !... and release it slowly !

singhvp
March 1st, 2010, 08:43 PM
Hi Braham,

I had a cursory glance on a few posts here and there and found lot of bickering on trivial issues. Anyway, I condemn those who use filthy and unchaste language on this forum, especially targetting fellow members. One may have different opinion on a particular subject but a minimum decency level should be maintained in one's reactions.

shailendra
March 2nd, 2010, 03:29 AM
Trust me when I say that I have been there before… publicly accused of trying to make a right by doing (on the baiting first) another wrong! Frankly, doesn’t make a flying * of a difference what any jaywalking :rolleyes:“Raja Harishchandra’s of the site” think really, I mean long as it gets the job done… you see have been blessed with a straight sort of backbone and I sure like to use it to ‘step-up’ to the plate whenever needed…

I am told it’s quite safe and easy to sit back and quote a “just ignore” to someone totally (sane) else and ask them to be humble, accommodating and magnanimous… that too sadly under a (temporary, mind you) existing uncomfortable cloud created by trolls posing as bhai-members; who can be quite easily spotted spewing blind hatred on every thread and making it a personal vendetta (when openly called on their bluff) and/or worse still - using veiled (staying just under the unacceptable radar) puns and baiting words towards the more well meaning members that may be trying their best to discuss patiently with such individuals and share thoughts in the most polite and neutral manner… (nope, don’t get me wrong – not one of such folks… can’t say I am one blessed with such politeness by any stretch of the imagination!)… So then, did that majority and their well meaning posts miss such keenly preaching eyesight? :confused:

Hmmm, but then…why am I also not really surprised to see folks NOT getting their own hands wet by maybe trying some similar patiently educating words and ‘samjhaoing pyar se’ those very same “nadaan Bhai’s jo thhoda bahut esa vaisa likh deten hain”, eh???… [the answer to that lies in the query itself… no one actually wants to take on the runaway ‘dirty’ boars (read bhaands) directly by the horns; it’s finally left to some of us that are not shy to call a spade a spade…obviously also the one’s that can be trusted to then listen to such ‘preaching’ reasoning, right?]

Lastly I wonder if one who’s new to this; only read some last few posts or actually spent quality time on the site and painstakingly picked the way thru some very choice accusatory “common-vein” threads before deciding to act like a ‘Johnny come lately’?.. yup, it figures…(doubt it); and on that note, here’s a lil’ secret…if these here posts are considered ‘craftsmanship of prose’ then one should really read some of the more ‘refined’ ones splattered elsewhere, also by yours truly, meant to hit right where it hurt such bhaands…. tell ya – sensitive ears would have practically gone red to burst!!! ;):D

…but then I am sure now we all can go back to safely and eagerly await some useful progressive and positive ideas for the welfare of the community…which, who knows- might also save this social/community forum from the privately owning autocratic folks that readily prosecute uncouth trespassers :rolleyes:… Peace out!…and oh by the way, welcome to Jatland!

annch
March 2nd, 2010, 09:38 PM
Down with the Trolls!!!

Definitely, this should happen. But it does not, it's the nature of the beast, like any other free forum. To quote 2 scenarios-

1) A troll in the guise of anonymity writes filth. He is reported to the moderators. He gets banned. But no, the troll does not give up that easily.He creates another identity, returns on JL, mends his ways for some time, discovers "Bhai Log" and support. But then, a different name does not give him a different thought process. He falters and again writes something objectionable.He is reported and banned again. Our troll is a very determined person, he again creates a new fake identity.And the process continues till the troll exhausts his IP address options....

2) A troll counters an established member. May be the troll made a point, may be not. And soon, some Bhai log who have an axe to grind with the established member join in the arguement, not because they have a point to make, but because they get a chance to be against the established member.And a troll becomes an "anti-establishment hero".

So, the trolling goes on.....

I would not place Bhaands in the same category as Trolls. Most of us, with real identities, follow self-moderation. Even the people who are "bhaand-ing", follow self-moderation, provided they have created a real identity. The problem we face is that one mans' nuisance can be another mans' recreation.

There should be zero tolerance policy for trashy Trolls. It would be nice if a CLEAR clause is added to the policies of the site when a new member joins that- "Information about the Troll would be shared with the agrieved party".

Regards

kapdal
March 3rd, 2010, 07:33 AM
Down with the Trolls!!!

Definitely, this should happen. But it does not, it's the nature of the beast, like any other free forum. To quote 2 scenarios-

1) A troll in the guise of anonymity writes filth. He is reported to the moderators. He gets banned. But no, the troll does not give up that easily.He creates another identity, returns on JL, mends his ways for some time, discovers "Bhai Log" and support. But then, a different name does not give him a different thought process. He falters and again writes something objectionable.He is reported and banned again. Our troll is a very determined person, he again creates a new fake identity.And the process continues till the troll exhausts his IP address options....

2) A troll counters an established member. May be the troll made a point, may be not. And soon, some Bhai log who have an axe to grind with the established member join in the arguement, not because they have a point to make, but because they get a chance to be against the established member.And a troll becomes an "anti-establishment hero".

So, the trolling goes on.....

I would not place Bhaands in the same category as Trolls. Most of us, with real identities, follow self-moderation. Even the people who are "bhaand-ing", follow self-moderation, provided they have created a real identity. The problem we face is that one mans' nuisance can be another mans' recreation.

There should be zero tolerance policy for trashy Trolls. It would be nice if a CLEAR clause is added to the policies of the site when a new member joins that- "Information about the Troll would be shared with the agrieved party".

Regards

Nice, Anju! I like the way you made your point subtly with a careful attempt not to bruise any egos...;). Nevertheless, most points well made. For me the summary of your post is that we will never have a one-size-fits-all forum that pleases everyone.

"The problem we face is that one mans' nuisance can be another mans' recreation."- this was very well said. I have one of my own- One man's bhaand is another man's Aristotle.

For me, quality of JL discussions is equal to sum total of its members' maturity quotients. I look forward to a time when people indulge in free-spirited and lively arguments without getting personal and without classifying the opposition as friend/enemy (My observation is that many people start from this point. If it is a friend, then keep mum even if you disagree. And vice-versa if it is someone you have an axe-to-grind against).

annch
March 3rd, 2010, 08:50 AM
Thanks Kapil.

I had an encounter with the worst of the trolls on JL, and he is still trolling here. I was also at the receiving end of "bhaand-ing". In both the instances, the only way that cut the crap was what Shailendra and Brahm did and have written in their posts- call spade a spade and show no mercy. "Laaton ke bhoot, baaton se nahin maante"- types. It gives me confidence to express my views freely, not fearing some egoistical retribution from a troll/bhaand, knowing that there are fellow JL members who would not hesitate to speak a language understood by trolls/ bhaands if need be.

For hardcore trolls/ bhaands, we do need what Shailendra and Brahm have suggested.

I have had arguements/ debates/ disagreement/ discussion with Shailendra, Anil, Brahm, Sunil, Sid, Sumit, Jit, Jitender, Anils, you and so many others on JL without any hard feelings. And, I continue to do so not because of any friendship or a safety net but because we all believe in healthy debates and even agree to disagree. In comparison, trolls/ bhaands become immaterial, and may be that's what makes me immune to crap and still enjoy JL.

Regards

vijay
March 4th, 2010, 10:41 PM
Arguments and disarguments hardly matters here as wolves( refined version of bhaands) don't have any personal indetifications apart from their certain actions/reactions.

JL used to have these 'creatures' in past, facing a lot NOW and would be a pain in the future too but lets not get distracted from the aim that 'why we are here'.

Bang on the craps (Bhaands) and move ahead !

kapdal
March 7th, 2010, 05:06 AM
Thanks Kapil.

I had an encounter with the worst of the trolls on JL, and he is still trolling here. I was also at the receiving end of "bhaand-ing". In both the instances, the only way that cut the crap was what Shailendra and Brahm did and have written in their posts- call spade a spade and show no mercy. "Laaton ke bhoot, baaton se nahin maante"- types. It gives me confidence to express my views freely, not fearing some egoistical retribution from a troll/bhaand, knowing that there are fellow JL members who would not hesitate to speak a language understood by trolls/ bhaands if need be.

For hardcore trolls/ bhaands, we do need what Shailendra and Brahm have suggested.

I have had arguements/ debates/ disagreement/ discussion with Shailendra, Anil, Brahm, Sunil, Sid, Sumit, Jit, Jitender, Anils, you and so many others on JL without any hard feelings. And, I continue to do so not because of any friendship or a safety net but because we all believe in healthy debates and even agree to disagree. In comparison, trolls/ bhaands become immaterial, and may be that's what makes me immune to crap and still enjoy JL.

Regards

Yeah I don't agree with this much. To me atleast, this is conveying a totally different message than what you were saying in your last post. Maybe you can tell me how you give a "laat" to a "laaton ke bhoot" on an online forum. All I am capable of seeing is "baat" on JL, maybe you have been sending some ICBLs (Inter continental ballistic laats) across the world with some success...:)

annch
March 7th, 2010, 05:35 AM
Arreee....we had agreed that one size does not fit all.....and my second post was in support of treatment for just one type- the trashy trolls....giving them "baat ki laat"....:)
How I wish I had infrared homing ICBLS for these creepy crappy trolls!!!!


Yeah I don't agree with this much. To me atleast, this is conveying a totally different message than what you were saying in your last post. Maybe you can tell me how you give a "laat" to a "laaton ke bhoot" on an online forum. All I am capable of seeing is "baat" on JL, maybe you have been sending some ICBLs (Inter continental ballistic laats) across the world with some success...:)

singhvp
March 7th, 2010, 03:45 PM
Arreee....we had agreed that one size does not fit all.....and my second post was in support of treatment for just one type- the trashy trolls....giving them "baat ki laat"....:)
How I wish I had infrared homing ICBLS for these creepy crappy trolls!!!!


The forum seems to have become a battleground. I think some mediation is required from moderators. The best way to avoid unwanted remarks by others is to be extra careful in posting your stuff on social sites. Personal remarks should be avoided as far as possible. If you are able to put across your views in a positive manner and without any bias on a common issue pertaining to the community/society, I do not think anybody would target trolls at you. If someone does not agree with you on any particular issue, you should be prepared to face the criticism.

annch
March 7th, 2010, 09:10 PM
Sir, appreciate your advice, thanks. Welcome to utopia!!

The forum seems to have become a battleground. I think some mediation is required from moderators. The best way to avoid unwanted remarks by others is to be extra careful in posting your stuff on social sites. Personal remarks should be avoided as far as possible. If you are able to put across your views in a positive manner and without any bias on a common issue pertaining to the community/society, I do not think anybody would target trolls at you. If someone does not agree with you on any particular issue, you should be prepared to face the criticism.

brahmtewatia
March 10th, 2010, 06:00 PM
... कितने ट्रोल थे ?

सरकार बहुत सारे...

कितने पकडे ?

सरकार फिलहाल 1 (x4).

चल कोई ना... मोगाम्बो >>>>>>>>> (gap) >>>>>>>>> खुस्स हुआ !
v
v
v
http://www.jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?29638-why-innocent-suffers-and-evil-flourish/page2

upendersingh
March 10th, 2010, 07:02 PM
कतई जूत बजवा राख्या सै, तेवतिया साहब आपने. :p:p:p

shailendra
March 11th, 2010, 12:31 AM
... कितने ट्रोल थे ?

सरकार बहुत सारे...

कितने पकडे ?

सरकार फिलहाल 1 (x4).

चल कोई ना... मोगाम्बो >>>>>>>>> (gap) >>>>>>>>> खुस्स हुआ !
v
v
v
http://www.jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?29638-why-innocent-suffers-and-evil-flourish/page2

“Troll-busters”!!! :o

If there's something strange on Jatland,
Who you gonna call?...
Troll-busters!!!

If there's something weird and it don't look good,
Who you gonna call???
...course, Troll-busters!!!

If you're seeing things running through your thread
Who can you call?
Troll-busters!

Some invisible bhaand crapping a 'kaand', :mad:
Oh, who you gonna call?...
Who you gonna call???
Troll-busters!!! ;)

If you're all alone, pick up the phone
And call
Troll-busters! (1-800-Trollfree)
[Who you gonna call?
Troll-busters!]

If you've had your skin crawl cause of a freaky Troll, :p
You'd better call
Troll-busters!

Let me tell you something
Bustin' makes me feel good :cool::rolleyes:

I ain't afraid of no Bhaand!
I ain't afraid of no Troll!

Don't get caught alone, oh no...
Troll-bustttttterrrrs!!!

When one comes through, spoiling for some gore,
Unless you just want some more :rolleyes:
I think you better call
“Troll-busters”!!!
Ow!!!

Who you gonna call???...
“Troll-busters!!!” :p:rolleyes::D

----
ps. ...With all due apology to the famous movie soundtrack from the, "Ghostbusters"...

singhvp
March 11th, 2010, 12:46 AM
Sir, appreciate your advice, thanks. Welcome to utopia!!
Anju ji,

It seems I have offended you by my unsolicited advice and unnecessary remarks. I have realised my mistake. I offer an apology to you in full public view and domain.

annch
March 11th, 2010, 01:42 AM
No Sir, please do not apologise....good advice is always welcome, solicited or unsolicited.
Just that your advice is applicable in ideal situations..:)


Anju ji,

It seems I have offended you by my unsolicited advice and unnecessary remarks. I have realised my mistake. I offer an apology to you in full public view and domain.

brahmtewatia
March 11th, 2010, 12:54 PM
Anju ji,

It seems I have offended you by my unsolicited advice and unnecessary remarks. I have realised my mistake. I offer an apology to you in full public view and domain.

के सिंह साहब... आप भी न्यू ए फंटू हो रे हो... कोई ना माढ़ी सी उक चूक हो भी गी... तो जान दो ना.

किम्मे कोई फांसी तोड़न तै आन ते रहा. इस्सी डीसेन्सी हाडे कोई ना बूझै .

आप भी किम्मे, चाले पाड रे हो. इस्सा व्यवहार करोगे तो जाटलैंड की टी. आर. पी. ख़तम हो ज्यागी

पी. एस. :- टेक ईट ईजी एंड चिल्ल. >>>>>>>> चिल्ल चिल्ल जस्ट चिल्ल चिल्ल.

singhvp
March 11th, 2010, 07:42 PM
के सिंह साहब... आप भी न्यू ए फंटू हो रे हो... कोई ना माढ़ी सी उक चूक हो भी गी... तो जान दो ना.

किम्मे कोई फांसी तोड़न तै आन ते रहा. इस्सी डीसेन्सी हाडे कोई ना बूझै .



आप भी किम्मे, चाले पाड रे हो. इस्सा व्यवहार करोगे तो जाटलैंड की टी. आर. पी. ख़तम हो ज्यागी

पी. एस. :- टेक ईट ईजी एंड चिल्ल. >>>>>>>> चिल्ल चिल्ल जस्ट चिल्ल चिल्ल.

Padh ke hansi aa rahi hai Braham. Your sense of humour is commendable. Yeh Hindi mein likhna maine bhi sikhado bhai badi takleef hoti hai Roman mein likhne mein. Bagri Jat hun naa. Ghanaa computer savvy konya bhai. Seedha Padhra Hun

sunillathwal
March 13th, 2010, 10:28 AM
May be this can help JL (see attached)... :D

vicky84
March 13th, 2010, 12:21 PM
---------------------------

Fateh
October 30th, 2010, 07:45 AM
Bhai shailendra, I APPRECIATE YOUR INTENTION & EFFORTS.
A) Good/bad, right/wrong, useful/useless, etc is subjective, judgement is effected by individual thinking, experience, age, self interest eggo, nature, ability, education level etc in the absence on written authority to guide/help the decision makers & here evry thing cannot be coded also interpretation would be another problem.
B) Remeber, truth is always bitter, also at times the writer may be harsh, bit rude, bit sarcastic etc but his intention may be good, he may be trying to bring a point home or his lack of language/knowledge may offend someone.
C) Jatland belongs to all jats, rules of coduct be decided by all in the interest of all.
D) Though, people are appointed as moderators after seeing their ability/suitability but we cannot rule out baised, subjective & wrong interpertation by them.

Thus, we can lay down some rules, for acts which cannot be tolrated/allowed/ignored regarding use of language, discipline/ behaviour on the forum. Members must be educated, motivated, ignored & if need be , warned privately, warned publically and finally blocked. Moderators need to be fare, transparent, just honest, serious & sincere in their actions. Opportunity must be given to the effected member to putup his defence/point of view. There is requirement of another body/authority above the moderators to look into the actions of moderators & give final decision.Regards