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malikdeepak1
September 15th, 2009, 10:01 AM
It took 11 long years for India to win a tri-series in SriLanka. They won a tri-series way back in 1998 in SL. Long period to wait for but the end result was very heartning. True to their potential both teams played gem of a game. Until Kandambi's dismissal the match was very much balanced. Kudos to Tendulkar and Harbhajan who once again proved their credentials as ture match winners. Sachin's performance was a master act. Fielding though needs hell lot of improvement. We dropped 2 sitters along with 3 missed run out chances.
But All is well that ends well.
My warm wishes to Team India for winning this tri-series after such a long gap. Also I wish Best of Luck for Champions Trophy starting Sep 22nd.
Keep Rocking Team India!!:rock:rock

nd-chora
September 15th, 2009, 10:29 AM
Deepak its nice to win after such a long span.......a genius inning from sachin, really dominate on all bowlers.... harbhajan bowled excellent spell specially the delivery Dilshan bowled..superb bowl.Srilankan approach of chasing is really appreciable...good effort....in the brief a good cricket overall.
But one thing i personally observed dont know it is fact or not, Dravid is not getting the respect and attention from his captain as much he deserve, all time i watched him on the boundary, on the field his body language was diffrent except when he was batting.
and who should come one down Dhoni or raina? Dhoni is a good captain but a big selfish opportunist. He choose his batting order according to his personal comfort.

All the best for champions trophy and heartly congtaes to team india.

malikdeepak1
September 15th, 2009, 11:06 AM
Deepak its nice to win after such a long span.......a genius inning from sachin, really dominate on all bowlers.... harbhajan bowled excellent spell specially the delivery Dilshan bowled..superb bowl.Srilankan approach of chasing is really appreciable...good effort....in the brief a good cricket overall.
But one thing i personally observed dont know it is fact or not, Dravid is not getting the respect and attention from his captain as much he deserve, all time i watched him on the boundary, on the field his body language was diffrent except when he was batting.
and who should come one down Dhoni or raina? Dhoni is a good captain but a big selfish opportunist. He choose his batting order according to his personal comfort.

All the best for champions trophy and heartly congtaes to team india.

Bhai devender tam tam ki baat hai. kade yo dhoni dravid ke niche e khelya karta.. We saw him close in when Bhajji was bowling patroling the slips.Waise us se badhiya slip ka fielder India me koi nahi h.
I don't know if Dhoni is a selfish opportunist or not but he certainly favors some people in the team who should never be there. Take RP's, Rohit Sharma's example. They never do better against a formidable team but always find a place in the team just coz they are close to Mr. Dhoni. You can't always sit on one match performance.
Raina is a brilliant talent agreed, but talent alone can't win you matches. You have to Perform to win. I saw his pathetic fielding yday, converting ones into twos for SL, despite being one of the best among Indian fielders. Every single run counts. At international level you can't relax like that. Had it not been Harbhajan's Heriocs at crucial point of times we would have lost the match.

Coming to No#3, I believe number 3 must be Gambhir once Sehwag and he both comes back. In absence of sehwag, gambhir will open definitely with tendulkar in CT so the all important No#3 is hung like pendulum. Raina can be a good number 3 or promote Y Pathan. He is not getting enough time to show what he is capable of. He is as cruel as Sehwag. He can demolish any attack, glimpses we saw in IPL and ODIs against Australia. if you get only 3-4 overs to bat you have to hit from ball one and thats where he gets out. He is a big talent and waiting for right opportunity. Else he will go into wilderness as many other have gone.

Dhoni is a good captain but "a captain is as good as his team".

kapdal
September 15th, 2009, 03:09 PM
But one thing i personally observed dont know it is fact or not, Dravid is not getting the respect and attention from his captain as much he deserve, all time i watched him on the boundary, on the field his body language was diffrent except when he was batting.
and who should come one down Dhoni or raina? Dhoni is a good captain but a big selfish opportunist. He choose his batting order according to his personal comfort.


Dravid's body language has always been like that, even when he was the captain. You usually seem him with a slight frown, always contemplating something, the sort of look you'd see on an academic's face.

The batting order is chosen according to the situation. Dhoni is the single most dependable batsman in the Indian line up today. If the job is riskfree accumulation of runs, he does it better than anyone else (current average of 50+ at strike rate of 90+). He is doing the role that Bevan used to do for the Aussies once upon a time. It is quite an amazing transformation for a guy who came into limelight because of his dashing style. The bad part is that he seems to have lost the ability to blast the bowlers. Keeping in mind India had collapsed in the last match, it made sense for Dhoni to come one down and provide stability as Sachin was on the other end. Probably, if Sachin had got out, someone else who scored faster may have come- maybe Raina.

If all 3- Sachin Sehwag and Gambhir- play, then I think mostly, Gambhir would come one down with first 2 playing as openers. As these 3 can handle most situations between themselves. Otherwise, it should be horses for courses. It is anyways good to have players who can play different roles.

malikdeepak1
September 15th, 2009, 03:49 PM
It is anyways good to have players who can play different roles.

True! But they need to get opportunities also to prove them. Dhoni definitely knows who can do what, just like Ganguly or may be a step ahead, but he sometimes misses out, don't know why:confused:
He has got such a wonderful team who are world beaters on their day, which he should transform into world beaters any day!!

kapdal
September 15th, 2009, 04:16 PM
True! But they need to get opportunities also to prove them. Dhoni definitely knows who can do what, just like Ganguly or may be a step ahead, but he sometimes misses out, don't know why:confused:
He has got such a wonderful team who are world beaters on their day, which he should transform into world beaters any day!!

Malik bhai, everyone can't get everything right every time. On balance, Dhoni has got it right more than he has got it wrong. As you said, captain is as good as the team. They may not be world beaters on every day (who has been?), but they certainly are more consistent than any Indian team till date.

As for giving opportunities to players, that is why RP Singh and Rohit Sharma have been played. Dhoni once said that he was in favor of giving players an extended runs- 20/25 matches- where they'd be played even if they didn't do well, so that they can play according to match situation and withour pressure. Right now, Raina and Yusuf are being played, even though their latest track record is not very good.

My understanding is that Dhoni plays RP based on situation and his reading of the pitch. The first 2 seamers of choice are Zaheer and Ishant. And then you have Praveen Kumar, RP, Irfan, Nehra, Munaf and Sreesanth. The first 3 (small town boys) all get along really well with Dhoni, but all of them don't get to play all the time. Nehra who once famously abused Dhoni on field (hope that incident has been buried since then), has played all 3 matches here. Rohit, in my opinion, is a special talent. He is technically sounder than most batsmen of his age, and an India without Sachin/Dravid may need him badly. He needs to be groomed. He has not really grabbed the chances he has got- and you can see he is not in this team where there was space because of no Gambhir/Sachin.

malikdeepak1
September 15th, 2009, 04:42 PM
Malik bhai, everyone can't get everything right every time. On balance, Dhoni has got it right more than he has got it wrong. As you said, captain is as good as the team. They may not be world beaters on every day (who has been?), but they certainly are more consistent than any Indian team till date.

As for giving opportunities to players, that is why RP Singh and Rohit Sharma have been played. Dhoni once said that he was in favor of giving players an extended runs- 20/25 matches- where they'd be played even if they didn't do well, so that they can play according to match situation and withour pressure. Right now, Raina and Yusuf are being played, even though their latest track record is not very good.

My understanding is that Dhoni plays RP based on situation and his reading of the pitch. The first 2 seamers of choice are Zaheer and Ishant. And then you have Praveen Kumar, RP, Irfan, Nehra, Munaf and Sreesanth. The first 3 (small town boys) all get along really well with Dhoni, but all of them don't get to play all the time. Nehra who once famously abused Dhoni on field (hope that incident has been buried since then), has played all 3 matches here. Rohit, in my opinion, is a special talent. He is technically sounder than most batsmen of his age, and an India without Sachin/Dravid may need him badly. He needs to be groomed. He has not really grabbed the chances he has got- and you can see he is not in this team where there was space because of no Gambhir/Sachin.

I agree to what you say about Dhoni that he wants to give players more chances. But why India should suffer for their chances. Agreed for 10-12 matches run (I think these much are sufficient to judge a player), but what if they still don't perform even after playing some 50 odd matches(RP). I can't remember anything creditable from RP after World T20 in 2007. he was given chance again in england T20 based on his performance in IPL2, but agin failed to impress on international level.
If Rohit can be dropped why can't his man????
(Remem the controversy when DHONI suggested to step down if RP was not picked??)

My point is that these players don't perform against good teams.

Pathan has shown some glimpses at least whenever he gets fair chance (which he probably has got least among all the players that are in discussion). One player of immense talent that strike my mind is Shikhar Dhawan. brilliant performer at domestic level (just like Rohit) but has not got a chance even..why???? may be politics or hard luck don know but he deserves a go at international level. He has both temperament and technique.

kapdal
September 15th, 2009, 06:06 PM
I agree to what you say about Dhoni that he wants to give players more chances. But why India should suffer for their chances. Agreed for 10-12 matches run (I think these much are sufficient to judge a player), but what if they still don't perform even after playing some 50 odd matches(RP). I can't remember anything creditable from RP after World T20 in 2007. he was given chance again in england T20 based on his performance in IPL2, but agin failed to impress on international level.
If Rohit can be dropped why can't his man????
(Remem the controversy when DHONI suggested to step down if RP was not picked??)

My point is that these players don't perform against good teams.

Pathan has shown some glimpses at least whenever he gets fair chance (which he probably has got least among all the players that are in discussion). One player of immense talent that strike my mind is Shikhar Dhawan. brilliant performer at domestic level (just like Rohit) but has not got a chance even..why???? may be politics or hard luck don know but he deserves a go at international level. He has both temperament and technique.

Bhai, I just checked cricinfo stats. RP has played only 24 of the last 58 matches that India has played in the last 2 years. He has not set the ground on fire, but has done decently on occasions picking up 3 wickets against teams like Australia, England, Pakistan, etc. For sure, he has not been consistent and there is a big scope for improvement. But everytime he has been given a chance, he had to do something to justify his inclusion. He was one of the best bowlers in the 2007 20-20 WC, so you'd expect him to get some chances after that. This time too, as you said, he did well in the IPL. Earlier, I remember he had done well at Ranji level. And then, many times, bowlers like Zaheer, Sreesanth, etc. have been injured. So he may have got to play as cover.

My point is that I don't think Dhoni is the type of guy who would "carry" players good for nothing in the team. He has himself said that the captain has to be a selfish person who picks the players who would do the job for him.

I don't think that 10-15 matches are enough to decide a player's future. There have been players like Gambhir who failed quite a few times and only succeeded in the latest comeback. If I remember correctly, Gambhir also said something to the effect, that earlier he was never made confident about his position in the team, and now the players know that even if they fail in a particular match, it is not the end of the world for them, thus taking off pressure from them.

Giving a player enough chances has been Dhoni's belief and he does it quite consistently. I strongly criticised Dhoni for playing Ravindra Jadeja even after he made a mess of that chase, but one has to admit that he was atleast being consistent. Yusuf is another player I think Dhoni backs fully. One can say that Yusuf disappoints at times with his bowling, but still Dhoni trusts him enough to bring him on as first/second change.

There is definitely politics in selection, but it is more because of the zonal quotas. If anything, coach and captain mitigate that factor. There are quite a few promising players on the domestic scene who have come to limelight because of IPL- like Shikhar Dhawan, Abhishek Nayar, Manoj Pandey, etc.- and who have not got a chance yet. But isn't it better to give an extended run to those who have been picked? Rather than having the earlier system of revolving doors, where players were judged on a couple of matches, shattering their confidence for ever.

anilsinghd
September 15th, 2009, 06:13 PM
Keeping in mind India had collapsed in the last match, it made sense for Dhoni to come one down and provide stability as Sachin was on the other end. .

Chotu ( Gambhir) is the best spin player in the line up i guess , but since he was not there , it made no sense to send Yuvi or Raina against the wily Sanath and the Carrom'er Mendis.

Dhoni coming up at that time was the best bet and I agree with you on this. :)

malikdeepak1
September 16th, 2009, 08:32 AM
Bhai, I just checked cricinfo stats. RP has played only 24 of the last 58 matches that India has played in the last 2 years. He has not set the ground on fire, but has done decently on occasions picking up 3 wickets against teams like Australia, England, Pakistan, etc. For sure, he has not been consistent and there is a big scope for improvement. But everytime he has been given a chance, he had to do something to justify his inclusion. He was one of the best bowlers in the 2007 20-20 WC, so you'd expect him to get some chances after that. This time too, as you said, he did well in the IPL. Earlier, I remember he had done well at Ranji level. And then, many times, bowlers like Zaheer, Sreesanth, etc. have been injured. So he may have got to play as cover.


This is what I intend to say Kapil. He performs well at domestic level but fails to come up to expectations at international level. After getting so many chances he has no other option but to perform. In the Compaq cup concluded recently he failed miserably in all three matches. Kartik failed in 2 matches and Kohli replaced him. Same logic should apply for him also. Hasn't Karthik faired decently for India?? International cricket is all about cut-throat competetion. If you are in the team you have to give more than 100% on field. I never doubted his commitment but performance and commitment have to go hand in hand. You just can't keep on performing below par conitnuosly at international arena. Look how Zaheer changed after being dropped for a year or so. Yuvraj is another great example. Don't you think Ganguly gave these two enough chances? Still they were not performing and got dropped. Zaheer played even when he was having hamstring in Aus. Having captain's confidence does help a lot but Confidence does not come by getting chances it comes by belief. If you are not performing well over a period go take rest and then come again with more energy. Thats what Zak and yuvi did. You have to learn everyday and keep performing. Its like private sector. Either you perform or you go. You don't have third option.

Yusuf is not getting enough chance to bat up the order. so his talent is going waste. Remem he is there in the team for hitting, his bowling is added advantage.

And players ARE getting extended runs at international matches. My point is that if they don't perform well even after so many chances should the selectors not give someone else a chance to prove himself?? If Irfan can be dropped(He was not even in the list of 30 probables for CT:confused:), if Rohit can be dropped then why can't RP?? Don't you think 24 chances are enough in two years to perform at international level?? Some players don't get two even.

For cover Parveen kumar is there who is better swing bowler than RP. They included Dhawal Kulkarni but din gave him chance. If he has to give away runs like this then was Irfan a bad choice???? And you will also agree bro that he can bat much better than RP. And a better fielder as well.

Its a common saying in cricket that don't change the winning combination, but this can't be a reason to keep on carrying the load of a non-performer. You can't always win with 10 against 12.

malikdeepak1
September 16th, 2009, 08:39 AM
Chotu ( Gambhir) is the best spin player in the line up i guess , but since he was not there , it made no sense to send Yuvi or Raina against the wily Sanath and the Carrom'er Mendis.

Dhoni coming up at that time was the best bet and I agree with you on this. :)

Absolutely! Gambhir is the best player of spin in our team. Dhoni did well to come ahead of Yuvraj or Raina. He is more composed than either of two. At that stage India needed to keep wickets intact and Dhoni performed very well coming at #3. Being a final you don't want yourself to be 200 for 5 or 6 in 40 overs. Dhoni ensured that wickets were there till the end so that next batsman bats freely.