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Samarkadian
October 6th, 2009, 02:21 AM
Guys,

Disasterous performance in two major international ICC events World Cup T20 09 and ICC Champions Trophy 09 by Indian criket team under the captaincy of blue eyed boy MS Dhoni of Indian Criket is apparent. I am not counting bi and tri series here. Indian criket team seems full stomach and satisfied and followers scracthing hair. In India, as psyche, we can not afford to loose atleast since a decade or so. I admit Indians fans have become more demanding than ever. But money involved with Indian team playing anywhere nowadays decides the fate of tournaments.

What do you think Indian team is living up to this new opportunity in world criket?

Who's next man in line to wear the cap?

But before that is it time for selectors to look beyond MS Dhoni?


In my opinion, Dhoni should not be the leading in all formats. He has lost his natural game of hitting evidently. He is good for T20. There is need to be decentralisation of captaincy for the healthy performances in upcoming times.

malikdeepak1
October 6th, 2009, 08:41 AM
A common saying "A captain is as good as his team". Akela chana bhaad nahi fod sakta.

True Indian team is faltering at big stage, but all of the blame can't be put on Dhoni alone. Since he is captain he has to be blamed for the loss. But Team selection has a major role in recent defeats in ICC events. Sehwag, Zaheer, Yuvraj are injured, but the sad thing is we don't have bench strength to replace such players. Bowlers let India down. RP, Ishant were totally out of sorts. Even bhajji failed this time around. Jab main strike bowlers hi fail ho jayenge to captain kya karega??

Captain sirf field set kar sakta hai, par uske according bowling bowler ko karni hoti hai. In my opinion more than anything else these three bowlers were main reason for our team's failure in Champions trophy. Look how Australians won it without Michael Clarke, haddin and Bracken, all of them are Best in their fields for Australia. This is coz they have players who can rise to occassion and fil the gap created by injury or selection whatever. Watson opened, he performed! Siddle came in , he performed! Paine came in, he too performed!

Indeed Dhoni is having more burden, he has to keep wickets, captain the side and then batting. But apart from one decision(Jadeja in T20) I can't see any flaw in his captaincy. Agar team perform nahi karegi to Dhoni akela kya karega??

Yahi situation Sachin ke time hoti thi jab wo captain tha. Wo akela kitne match jitwa sakta tha. uski captaincy me kabhi koi player nahi chla. At least Dhoni has got a good team, but he lacks bench strength. More stress should be given on improving domestic circuit to evolve good players.

Baki paise ne in sabka dimag khraab kar rkha hai. Ishant ko saal me 5 crore milte hai. Itna paisa dikhta hai to jo pace bowlers starting me 145 ki speed se ball daalte hai wo 125 pe aake ruk jate hai. Sochte hai ki paisa to mil hi rha hai , kyu bevjah jor lagaya. Attitude also needs a change. Don't shower money on them blindly. BCCI should keep a check on this.

kapdal
October 6th, 2009, 03:52 PM
Baki paise ne in sabka dimag khraab kar rkha hai. Ishant ko saal me 5 crore milte hai. Itna paisa dikhta hai to jo pace bowlers starting me 145 ki speed se ball daalte hai wo 125 pe aake ruk jate hai.

Venkatesh Prasad ka role bhi investigate karna chaahiye. He seems to be the graveyard of all Indian pace bowlers. Sab 140+ pe start karte hain, and then they come down to 125. Prasad is the bowling coach. He is known for nothing else but his humungous variety of slow, slower and slowest bowls. I am sure he is teaching all that jazz to his "students".

vicky84
October 6th, 2009, 03:57 PM
Venkatesh Prasad ka role bhi investigate karna chaahiye. He seems to be the graveyard of all Indian pace bowlers. Sab 140+ pe start karte hain, and then they come down to 125. Prasad is the bowling coach. He is known for nothing else but his humungous variety of slow, slower and slowest bowls. I am sure he is teaching all that jazz to his "students".


Bhai mughe ek time yaad aata hai...jaab Indian team Aus tour pe thi..i think 1999 mei...not able to recall exactly wat year was that..but Parsad se jayda speed Anil Kumble daal raha tha(@124 KMPH)...aur Parsad ki bowling speed thi (120 KMPH)...taab laga ki Parsad team mei kyo hai...

malikdeepak1
October 6th, 2009, 04:19 PM
Venkatesh Prasad ka role bhi investigate karna chaahiye. He seems to be the graveyard of all Indian pace bowlers. Sab 140+ pe start karte hain, and then they come down to 125. Prasad is the bowling coach. He is known for nothing else but his humungous variety of slow, slower and slowest bowls. I am sure he is teaching all that jazz to his "students".

Bilkul hona chaiye bhai kapil. Ar ek ya MRF pace academy band honi chaiye. ya bhi bowler ka satyanaash kar de se.
Ek bar Wasim Akram ne ek interview me kaha tha ki Imran Khan ne us se yahi kaha tha ki jitni tej daal sakte ho ball dalo. need not worry about ur line and length, wo to apne aap aa jayegi dheere dheere. Par speed ek bar gayi to fer ulti nahi aawegi.
Par Bharat aale gugga 1-2 match me to haanga dikhawe se (Munaf started at 145+ but came down drastically to 125, Similarly Ishant started around 143+ but now delivers max of 133), fer fuu bol jya se.

Yu prasaada kime manter maare se laage. Is Ishant ne Aus te aaye pacche ek ber bhi dhung te baal nahi fenk li. :mad:

malikdeepak1
October 6th, 2009, 04:26 PM
Parsad team mei kyo hai...

Bhai fer dusri team aale chakke kiske maare hai je yu nahi hove hai?? :p

Jayasuriya ne bhoot bna rakhya tha iska mar chakkyan :D Sari dhaal ki ball fenk ke dekh li bichare ne, slow, slower, slowest, par koe fayda nahi hoya isne. jaysuriya isne jibe ground te bahar bhej de tha :rock
Poori jindagi me ek suthri ball fenki thi isne, wo Aamir Sohail out karya tha quarter-final me 96 ke world cup me. Fer to nire chakke e marwaye gya:boxing

kapdal
October 6th, 2009, 04:35 PM
Poori jindagi me ek suthri ball fenki thi isne, wo Aamir Sohail out karya tha quarter-final me 96 ke world cup me. Fer to nire chakke e marwaye gya:boxing

Bowl to woh bhi chhakke waali thi (I remember it was very short), par Sohail ki maran maut aa rahi thi...

malikdeepak1
October 6th, 2009, 04:41 PM
Bowl to woh bhi chhakke waali thi (I remember it was very short), par Sohail ki maran maut aa rahi thi...

Par us gindu ne match ka rukh palat diya tha bhai. To suthri me e count kar li mane :D

Nishantrathi82
October 6th, 2009, 05:13 PM
Although i may be bit early on my call but Gambhir may be the best one to replace Dhoni in future.
And no comments of performance :)

sanjeev_balyan
October 6th, 2009, 08:30 PM
Actually format of ICC Champions Trophy was not good, if u loose one match than u r out, the same was happened to India. u see India and SA , the no 1 & 2 of ICC ranking that time, were out from SFs. so blaming the captain is not correct, actually we can’t digest the defeat at any cost, if 2maro the same team wins continuous than everybody will say something else, this is in our blood, be practical, these guys r not super humans.

sunillathwal
October 6th, 2009, 10:34 PM
Actually format of ICC Champions Trophy was not good, if u loose one match than u r out, the same was happened to India. u see India and SA , the no 1 & 2 of ICC ranking that time, were out from SFs. so blaming the captain is not correct, actually we can’t digest the defeat at any cost, if 2maro the same team wins continuous than everybody will say something else, this is in our blood, be practical, these guys r not super humans.


Earlier CT format used to be knock-out.. u lose one match, u are out of championship that day itself.. No??

i like that format better!!
Team who win all of its matches is a true champion team. Teams reaching SF/ QF by permutations & combinations should not be called a winner or champion.
Indian team was not good enough and deservingly crashed out of the CT.
Reg Capt: Dhoni's aura is wanning (for sure) and so is his luck and batting. Dhoni has changed his batting style quite a lot, seeing him bat is a pain..
Lets face it: he doesn't have a good technique.. In last 2 years or so, he is managing to score some runs but big shots (he was known for) are gone.. he defends awkwardly... can NOT accelerates the run rate (in recent times) and so on!! but he is/was managing to score 30-40 runs somehow and team as a whole was doing good.. so nobody actually noticed the 'decline' in his batting (in fact many claimed it is 'adaptation' as per teams' need).

Now some key players are missing (injured), team is not doing good... everything about Dhoni looks vulnerable... Big innings are long due from the skipper.. If his 'rough phase' runs longer coupled with some injury, we might see a new caption !!

Sehwag has already expressed his 'no interest' in Indian captaincy (though after some time he declined this 'no interest' statement); only Yuvraj and Gambhir are other contenders for the post!! Lets see what happens next!!

anilsinghd
October 6th, 2009, 11:01 PM
Bowl to woh bhi chhakke waali thi (I remember it was very short), par Sohail ki maran maut aa rahi thi...

Perhaps too tough on the Prasad , We all remember that "GREAT" ( it indeed was one of the greatest Test innings) by Tendulkar in the Chennai test where we lost by 12 runs eventually after being so close to win it!

What we do not remember is that Prasad actually bowled India to possible-Glory ( getting 6 for 33 , in the process getting Shahid Afridi as well when he was making a mockery of Indian bowlers!) , and to give India a sniff at the target. Pakistan slumped from 4-275 to 286 all out. ( 5 of 6 wickets falling were taken by Prasad).

He was good against Pakistan anywhere specially the WCs.

rocky0036
October 6th, 2009, 11:13 PM
Guys,

Disasterous performance in two major international ICC events World Cup T20 09 and ICC Champions Trophy 09 by Indian criket team under the captaincy of blue eyed boy MS Dhoni of Indian Criket is apparent. I am not counting bi and tri series here. Indian criket team seems full stomach and satisfied and followers scracthing hair. In India, as psyche, we can not afford to loose atleast since a decade or so. I admit Indians fans have become more demanding than ever. But money involved with Indian team playing anywhere nowadays decides the fate of tournaments.

What do you think Indian team is living up to this new opportunity in world criket?

Who's next man in line to wear the cap?

But before that is it time for selectors to look beyond MS Dhoni?


In my opinion, Dhoni should not be the leading in all formats. He has lost his natural game of hitting evidently. He is good for T20. There is need to be decentralisation of captaincy for the healthy performances in upcoming times.
bhai ye tho sabse bada sacch hai ki uska luck usse yha tak le aya

sachin
virnder shewag
v.laxman
rahul
gangualy

bhai in playero ka game majedaar rha hai

kyunki in sab playero main kala naam ki chiz hai
na dhoni ki trha sirf 6 marna ata ho
india ne 50 se jayda match asie hare hai jin main dhoni 2nd batting main notout aya hai or bhi 50+ karke

pata nhi dhoni kis style se khelte hai
muje tho lagta hai uske din gaye

:cool:

anilsinghd
October 6th, 2009, 11:16 PM
On Topic though , Do not feel that there is any change needed. Dhoni had his share of the beginner's luck or "the honeymoon period" , whatever you might like to call it.

He is a shrewd guy and so as per me very much suited for the job , he has arrogance , thats another thing that is needed!

There will be couple of hiccups here and there , law of averages does not spare anyone!
Specially on the Champions trophy , I think he was really hard done , he himself said that he got few balls to play in the whole tournament , but he has himself to blame probably. I watched those 9 balls he played against Pakistan and he was not comfortable , that is bound to happen if you do not play your natural game or if you are under pressure/nervous. I think he has got into a mindset that he can push singles around and then boom boom only at the end , I am not saaying he should hit out , but he should play proper cricket. In most of those 9 balls , he was playing with a pre-defined mindset to nudge a single and to rotate the strike , that is certainly not the way to go! Play the balls on their merit!

Also I felt a bit of bad planning/calculations by the Indian Team. I still cannot justify on why Kohli needed to loft Afridi when you are chasing 303 , you are at 21.3 ovr mark and are 126-2 and Dravid ( who has mroe than 10k ODI runs) is batting at the other end. The only explanation that I can digest is that Dravid asked Kohli to hit out. When you have people like Dhoni ,Raina , Pathan still to come and 5 overs of batting powerplay still to come , you dont need to do that bullshi*t! Fine , if you fancy yourself , want to be heroic , ask you captain or senior player on how about taking a powerplay and then probably your loft will fall safe or tickle over the fence!

Delaying powerplay till the very end is something that most teams have done wrong and India was no exception. When Raina hit Shoiab Malik for 14 in an over and they were slogs(!!) , guess they should have taken the powerplay. SL did a great job about powerplays against NZ and got more than 50-ish in the powerplays and they were able tohave run rate better than SA ( but that did not matter in the end !).

Guess , they need to plug the small holes and we would be good to go and back with the winning ways!

If one Pathan is not worky ,I think India should try the other Pathan , i.e. Irfan.

:)

singhabhimanyu
October 7th, 2009, 12:57 AM
आज बोलिंग कोच परसाद टीम में क्यूँ है? इशांत शर्मा की सपीड अचानचक क्यूकर गिर गी? जिब इशांत का हे परसाद बनाना था ते इरफान पठान नै के बिटोडे फूक राखे थे, बैटिंग तो कर हे लेता.

...taab laga ki parsad team mei kyo hai...

singhabhimanyu
October 7th, 2009, 01:15 AM
okay. jst curious to know how many balls did Dhonaa get to play in T20 cup? whats the explanation to his thunderous (read blunderous if thts some word) performance in tht tournament? leave it. I agree tht against Pak we needed to preserve wickets but then its okay. the team knows best about their approach. if u ask me, Irfan Pathan is irreplaceable in one-dayers. no substitute! leaving him out was a mistake.

... he himself said that he got few balls to play in the whole tournament :)

anilsinghd
October 7th, 2009, 01:28 AM
okay. jst curious to know how many balls did Dhonaa get to play in T20 cup? whats the explanation to his thunderous (read blunderous if thts some word) performance in tht tournament? leave it. I agree tht against Pak we needed to preserve wickets but then its okay. the team knows best about their approach. if u ask me, Irfan Pathan is irreplaceable in one-dayers. no substitute! leaving him out was a mistake.

I did not fully support Dhoni , infact what I said was that it is still not time to sack him but dhoni needs to play his natural game.

he struggled in champions trophy even when he played so less.


anyways ... here are the stats you demanded , jsut for info purposes! :)


run/ball
26/21
14/13
11/23
30/20
5/12

not good , i agree! :)


but the main reason i can find is that he is taking too much stress , he thinks he can stabilise and stay till end and blast everything out of the ground at death ...


remmeber when tendulkar went into his shell , people were talking about his "sansyaas" , but he came back playing his natural game ..

singhabhimanyu
October 7th, 2009, 01:45 AM
I've not said tht u've supported or 've been against Dhoni. i was surprised on dhoni's statement tht he got only 9 balls to play n all tht crap. super-gimpy excuse on Dhoni's part.
another thing, everytime federer loses he says "i did not play my natural game, or I was not at my best". He praises his opponents only when they lose to him. lol! what I feel is this is the most feeble excuse a plyer can ever make. a player always plays his natural game. if Mr xyz hits Mr abc for six 4s in an over and in the next match he's not able to repeat his performance then he cant say like "i didnt play my natural game" or "i was not at my best". this is rubbish. howsoever a player plays under certain conditions is his natural game. even if a swashbuckling batsman is subdued with fear of some superfast express bowler and gets on the defensive then his fear is also natural and very much part of his batting style. Batting is not what with you do with ur bat but also what u do with ur mind. same applies to bowling. even if someone goes into a custodial shell or bursts out of thundering clouds, its all natural. One's game is always natural just tht the performance varies with varying conditions.

note- anil, i dont really mean to offend u but i dont like "natural game" phrase.

I did not fully support Dhoni , infact what I said was that it is still not time to sack him but dhoni needs to play his natural game.

he struggled in champions trophy even when he played so less.


anyways ... here are the stats you demanded , jsut for info purposes! :)


run/ball
26/21
14/13
11/23
30/20
5/12

not good , i agree! :)


but the main reason i can find is that he is taking too much stress , he thinks he can stabilise and stay till end and blast everything out of the ground at death ...


remmeber when tendulkar went into his shell , people were talking about his "sansyaas" , but he came back playing his natural game ..

malikdeepak1
October 7th, 2009, 03:12 PM
One's game is always natural just tht the performance varies with varying conditions.



No Abhimanyu. Natural game is the one which a player plays irrespective of circumstances or varying conditions. Its the one which you have always played without fearing any bowler. Sehwag's natural game is attack whereas Dravid is bit defensive by nature.
If you ask Sehwag to defend he will certainly get out quickly bcoz it doesn't suit his style at all. For me a player should be a blend of Sehwag and Dravid. he should be able to play according to all situations, just like Ponting. He adjusts so quickly according to the situation. You can count Lara too in this category.

For bowlers too same thing applies. Like Parveen Kumar is good when bowl swings. he is hard to get away that time since he is good at swing bowling. But if you give him a flat pitch he will definitely struggle since his natural style is swing bowling which requires bowlers to pitch the bowl up. He will try to bowl line and length deliveries but won't succeed 4 out of 6 times.
The style of batting and bowling comes naturally. Its pure talent. It will take years if you want to change it.

So a player's natural game is what he loves to bat like or bowl like no matter what the conditions are!!

sjakhars
October 7th, 2009, 04:07 PM
I am reproduing my post with Akshay Malik's Quotes here. Its been long known that Dhoni has lost his touch.

http://www.jatland.com/forums/showpost.php?p=213512&postcount=42

"This is what I wanted to say in my earlier post " Dhoni playing safe.."
He is just playing for himself. His batting style has changed completely after he got captaincy.
I think there was no preparation and/or planning for T20 WC from captain's side this time. He was unsure what to do, even he was unsure of playing eleven since the tournament started. He must have played with RP Singh in all matches as he was the top wicket taker in IPL. Jadeja was a wrong choice again in a "do or die" match. Ojha would have been incuded. Pathan was given several chances before and RP was included in this match only. He shoudl have choosen his playing eleven clear from day one.

On the other note, I agree with Jitendra Hooda that I have lost interest in Cricket after that fixing episode. I used to feel very bad whenever India lost but not any more.


Quote:
Originally Posted by akshaymalik84
Jakhar ji,

Dhoni is playing mind games here....whenever there is an opening partenership of around 50-60 runs,he bring himself at no.3...just to show that he can control the team innings.
And whenever 1or 2 wickets goes down early...he stays in the bill to bat at no.5 or 6...to show that he is giving youngsters a chance.....he simply does not want to take blame on himself.

He is in this team for his capatincy and fearless batting(havn,t seen for long time).But in this world cup he failed on all fronts. He lacks tactical knoweledge and does not have good technique to handle fast bowling. Dinesh kartik is a much better WK keeper and batsman than him.....

I am not sure how much part Gary kirsten has played in this poor performance of Indian CRICKET team."




Earlier CT format used to be knock-out.. u lose one match, u are out of championship that day itself.. No??

i like that format better!!
Team who win all of its matches is a true champion team. Teams reaching SF/ QF by permutations & combinations should not be called a winner or champion.
Indian team was not good enough and deservingly crashed out of the CT.
Reg Capt: Dhoni's aura is wanning (for sure) and so is his luck and batting. Dhoni has changed his batting style quite a lot, seeing him bat is a pain..
Lets face it: he doesn't have a good technique.. In last 2 years or so, he is managing to score some runs but big shots (he was known for) are gone.. he defends awkwardly... can NOT accelerates the run rate (in recent times) and so on!! but he is/was managing to score 30-40 runs somehow and team as a whole was doing good.. so nobody actually noticed the 'decline' in his batting (in fact many claimed it is 'adaptation' as per teams' need).

Now some key players are missing (injured), team is not doing good... everything about Dhoni looks vulnerable... Big innings are long due from the skipper.. If his 'rough phase' runs longer coupled with some injury, we might see a new caption !!

Sehwag has already expressed his 'no interest' in Indian captaincy (though after some time he declined this 'no interest' statement); only Yuvraj and Gambhir are other contenders for the post!! Lets see what happens next!!

singhabhimanyu
October 7th, 2009, 06:35 PM
No deepak. i wud say tht any way a player plays is natural. going by the last line in ur post, one can never play naturally.

No Abhimanyu. Natural game is the one which a player plays irrespective of circumstances or varying conditions. Its the one which you have always played without fearing any bowler. Sehwag's natural game is attack whereas Dravid is bit defensive by nature.
If you ask Sehwag to defend he will certainly get out quickly bcoz it doesn't suit his style at all. For me a player should be a blend of Sehwag and Dravid. he should be able to play according to all situations, just like Ponting. He adjusts so quickly according to the situation. You can count Lara too in this category.

For bowlers too same thing applies. Like Parveen Kumar is good when bowl swings. he is hard to get away that time since he is good at swing bowling. But if you give him a flat pitch he will definitely struggle since his natural style is swing bowling which requires bowlers to pitch the bowl up. He will try to bowl line and length deliveries but won't succeed 4 out of 6 times.
The style of batting and bowling comes naturally. Its pure talent. It will take years if you want to change it.

So a player's natural game is what he loves to bat like or bowl like no matter what the conditions are!!

malikdeepak1
October 7th, 2009, 07:08 PM
No deepak. i wud say tht any way a player plays is natural. going by the last line in ur post, one can never play naturally.

Abhimanyu a player is judged by this capability only. I wuld like to give xample of Jayasuriya here. He always plays his natural game, batting first or second doesn't matter for him. He never diverts from his attacking skills. Thats what natural game is. You don't change your game under pressure. Jayasuriya likes to attack and he attacks. At age of 40 he still plays like a young gun.

singhabhimanyu
October 7th, 2009, 07:26 PM
copypasting from post 18 "even if a swashbuckling batsman is subdued with fear of some superfast express bowler and gets on the defensive then his fear is also natural and very much part of his batting style. Batting is not what with you do with ur bat but also what u do with ur mind. same applies to bowling. even if someone goes into a custodial shell or bursts out of thundering clouds, its all natural. One's game is always natural"

What u r saying is "preference", an ardent liking.

note- its my view on being 'natural'.

Abhimanyu a player is judged by this capability only. I wuld like to give xample of Jayasuriya here. He always plays his natural game, batting first or second doesn't matter for him. He never diverts from his attacking skills. Thats what natural game is. You don't change your game under pressure. Jayasuriya likes to attack and he attacks. At age of 40 he still plays like a young gun.

malikdeepak1
October 8th, 2009, 08:22 AM
copypasting from post 18 "even if a swashbuckling batsman is subdued with fear of some superfast express bowler and gets on the defensive then his fear is also natural and very much part of his batting style. Batting is not what with you do with ur bat but also what u do with ur mind. same applies to bowling. even if someone goes into a custodial shell or bursts out of thundering clouds, its all natural. One's game is always natural"

What u r saying is "preference", an ardent liking.

note- its my view on being 'natural'.

Preference is determined by circumstances. If your team is 5 wickets down and still 25 overs are remaining You have to give preference to defensive shots. You will curb down your attacking instincts.
You will not play the way you are always known for. Thats where circumstances prevail over your natural game.
I'll still say that natural game is what you play irrespective of circumstances. You can bowl to Dravid for whole of the day and he will keep on defending, but if you ask him to play briskly and hit boundaries he is surely bound to get out quickly becoz he has to come out of skin to play those attacking shots. And thats where his mental strength becomes feeble and he looses his concentration. He doesn't have that capability to come out blazing at every delivery.

Some players love to be attacking and some are defensive by nature. This thing comes naturally to everyone. Its a God gift. Everyone can't be a Warne or Murali who can spin the ball miles even on a flat track. Thats natural talent. If you will ask Kumble to spin that much he will fail to come up to expectations, coz his nature is to keep the bowl on line and length, not spinning it much.

And one's game can not be natural always. After all we all are humans and tend to get circumspects. Natural game allows you to play freely your shots, whether defensive or attacking. When your team is in trouble and you go down to defensive shots its circumspection, not your natural game.

Everyone has different opinion on different things. Its good to have little discussion to know what others think of.

akshaymalik84
October 8th, 2009, 11:44 AM
क्यूँ दुखी हो रहे सो, वे आप खेल लें गे जिन ने खेलना होगा ......नैचुरल हो चाहे अन नैचुरल .....टीम जीतनी चाहिए बस .
और के सारी हन क्रिकेट की बतलाये जाओ सो .........किसे ने बेरा से हॉकी टीम का कॅप्टन कौन से ???

What do you think Indian team is living up to this new opportunity in world criket?

No India is not living up to standards of world Cricket. We always rely on one player performence. We have poor physical fitness as compare to other teams. Inadequate bench strength.Bowlers are loosing pace and swing.Too many problems.

Who's next man in line to wear the cap?

I won't go with yuvraj, he is too arrogant. Gambhir is too shy. Viru is good option but he is getting old and injury prone. We should look towards new blood like Raina or Rohit sharma.

But before that is it time for selectors to look beyond MS Dhoni?

Yes, this is the right time to look beyond Dhoni. Not much time left for world cup 2011,we should look for his backup. BCCI should give young players more exposure and keep resting the senior players to keep them fit for bigger tournaments.

singhabhimanyu
October 8th, 2009, 11:55 AM
with all due respect, i think otherwise. u r fixating a natural game to liking of a player. what im saying is "capability + preference + mind + settings = natural game". for instance, if Warne has to bowl a flipper all of a sudden according to the circumstances then it is natural of him to do so. generally, balling leg-spinners is his preference over the other magical tricks he has in his fingers. balling genuine leg-spinners is only a part of his natural game.

concluding from the above equation, one's game is always natural.


Preference is determined by circumstances.
And one's game can not be natural always.
Everyone has different opinion on different things. Its good to have little discussion to know what others think of.

malikdeepak1
October 8th, 2009, 12:07 PM
concluding from the above equation, one's game is always natural.

Discussion khatam nahi hoya er tane CONCLUDE bhi kar diya :D:p
sahi se:rock

Samarkadian
October 8th, 2009, 12:35 PM
क्यूँ दुखी हो रहे सो, वे आप खेल लें गे जिन ने खेलना होगा ......नैचुरल हो चाहे अन नैचुरल .....टीम जीतनी चाहिए बस .
और के सारी हन क्रिकेट की बतलाये जाओ सो .........किसे ने बेरा से हॉकी टीम का कॅप्टन कौन से ???

what do you think indian team is living up to this new opportunity in world criket?

no india is not living up to standards of world cricket. We always rely on one player performence. We have poor physical fitness as compare to other teams. Inadequate bench strength.bowlers are loosing pace and swing.too many problems.

who's next man in line to wear the cap?

i won't go with yuvraj, he is too arrogant. Gambhir is too shy. Viru is good option but he is getting old and injury prone. We should look towards new blood like raina or rohit sharma.

but before that is it time for selectors to look beyond ms dhoni?

yes, this is the right time to look beyond dhoni. Not much time left for world cup 2011,we should look for his backup. Bcci should give young players more exposure and keep resting the senior players to keep them fit for bigger tournaments.

अक्षय , भारतीय होकी टीम भारतीय क्रिकेट की तरह दुधारू गाय नहीं है. छह घंटे के खेल में अथाह पैसा आता है बोर्ड के पास. ये सबसे बड़ी विडम्बना है होकी की भी और भारतीय मानसिकता की भी. चाहे भारतीय होकी का कपटेन प्रधान मंत्री स्वयम क्यों न हो हम लोग क्रिकेट को ही तवज्जो देंगे. अब तो गाँव क्या और शहर क्या सब क्रिकेट के मोहपाश में हैं. मेरा चचेरा भाई कहता है की बस एक आई पी ल का मैच खेल लूं फिर देखना. क्रिकेट के लिए अच्छा है ये और बाकी खेलो के लिए शायद अच्छा नहीं. और शायद ऐसी स्थिअती पश्चिम देसों में फुटबॉल, बसेबाल को लेकर है.

कपिल ने सही कहा की परसाद बोलिंग कोच की भूमिका शायद अब निभा चूका है. अब शायद आक्रामक बोलिंग कोच की आवश्यकता है भारतीय टीम को.यही बात फील्डिंग कोच रोबिन सिंह पर लागू होती है. शायद किसी अच्छे दिन वो आशीष नेहरा को कैच थामना और हरभजन सिंह को डाईव करना सिखा ही देंगे .



रोहित शर्मा और सुरेश रैना में अभी भी मैच खेलने की परिपक्वता नहीं है. कप्तानी की बात तो बहुत दूर है.

मेरा मानना ये है की धोनी को ट२० और एक दिवसीय का कप्तान रखा जाये ताकि ज्यादा बोझ न रहे और उसका 'कुदरती' खेल प्रभावित न हो.

२०११ के वर्ल्ड कप के लिए जूनियर लेवल के खिलाडियों का विदेशी दौरा महत्वपूर्ण है. अन्यथा ये नए खिलाडी रास्ट्रीय टीम में सिर्फ पानी पकडाते ही नज़र आयेंगे.

कप्तान के तौर पैर चयनकर्ताओ के पास ज्यादा विकल्प मौजूद नहीं है.सहवाग ने दिल्ली आई पी ल की कप्तानी से मन किया है न की रास्ट्रीय टीम के लिए. इस समय तो सहवाग ही सबसे अच्छा विकल्प नज़र आता है.

मेरे हिसाब से गेंदबाजी में कुछ नए चेहरे जो की आई पी ल में नज़र आये थे उनको मौका दिया जाना चाहिए. वर्ल्ड कप के समय तक भारतीय टीम के पास कम से कम पांच तेज गेंदबाज रिज़र्व में रहने चाहिए. स्पिन विभाग में अमित मिश्र एक अच्छी प्रतिभा है, टेस्ट टीम में हरभजन का अच्छा विकल्प साबित होगा.

हाल के मैच में दूसरा बैटिंग पॉवर प्ले लेने पैर के आप लोगो की क्या राय है? कितने ओवर और कितने विकेट के बाद ये लेना तार्किक तौर पैर फायदेमंद है ?

anilsinghd
October 8th, 2009, 04:38 PM
मेरा मानना ये है की धोनी को ट२० और एक दिवसीय का कप्तान रखा जाये ताकि ज्यादा बोझ न रहे और उसका 'कुदरती' खेल प्रभावित न हो.

२०११ के वर्ल्ड कप के लिए जूनियर लेवल के खिलाडियों का विदेशी दौरा महत्वपूर्ण है. अन्यथा ये नए खिलाडी रास्ट्रीय टीम में सिर्फ पानी पकडाते ही नज़र आयेंगे.

कप्तान के तौर पैर चयनकर्ताओ के पास ज्यादा विकल्प मौजूद नहीं है.सहवाग ने दिल्ली आई पी ल की कप्तानी से मन किया है न की रास्ट्रीय टीम के लिए. इस समय तो सहवाग ही सबसे अच्छा विकल्प नज़र आता है.

मेरे हिसाब से गेंदबाजी में कुछ नए चेहरे जो की आई पी ल में नज़र आये थे उनको मौका दिया जाना चाहिए. वर्ल्ड कप के समय तक भारतीय टीम के पास कम से कम पांच तेज गेंदबाज रिज़र्व में रहने चाहिए. स्पिन विभाग में अमित मिश्र एक अच्छी प्रतिभा है, टेस्ट टीम में हरभजन का अच्छा विकल्प साबित होगा.

हाल के मैच में दूसरा बैटिंग पॉवर प्ले लेने पैर के आप लोगो की क्या राय है? कितने ओवर और कितने विकेट के बाद ये लेना तार्किक तौर पैर फायदेमंद है ?


So much so on the natural game.

For the boiis who are debating this , this is very much subjetive , once can argue for and against at the same time.

My take is this: If tomorrow Sehwag starts playing like Dravid , he is not playing his natural game.
Or if Dravid starts taking aerial route on every 3rd ball he is not playing his natural game.
When players play for a long enough time , there are certain pre-defined notions about him, we all have a image of dhoni where he can hit those magical sixes with 360 degree bat movement ! :)
He is certainly not playing per that , with responsibilities he has cut down on his aggression.


Certainly i do not agree that Dhoni should be removed from captaincy , may be he comes out of this much stronger.

On Mishra , I think he is a talent. I would any day prefer a quality spinner over an ordinary fast bowler. So to me it makes less of sense to keep out Mishra because you need to play 3 fast bowlers. I still do not rate Murali that highly becasue (till the time I used to watch cricket) he was not comfortable bowling within the powerplays. Dharamsena , Jayasurya and others used to come before him to bowl with field up , that is crap to me.
Take Warne , Kumble and a couple of other greats , they can bowl anytime , no harm in even getting them the new bowl.
I guess we need to give Irfan another shot , he will be the t hird medium pacer and the extra batsmen India need. Yususf is not doing justice to his role. What I also do not get is why do you need to give Irfan the new ball and the batsmen thrash him all over and dent his confidence. Get him in with first or second change with cover and then build his confidence.
I would go with Mishra , Bhajji , Pathan and 2 seamers as the bowling power.


On the powerplay , it is a bit tricky , on one hand it does not make sense to delay it till 45 because in the last 5 ovrs you are already slogging. And on the other it does not go well with two batsmen well set , taking off 5-6 an over and then taking powerplay and getting one of them out while trying to slog. Surely there should be some thought that needs to be put into it and the team composition should also be kept in mind.
How about having a batsmen who is given the role of powerplay slogger and specifically given training and practise and mindset for it? Lets say someone like Yuvraj and he is told that do not slog each ball , but with your power and skills , we should be good with 50 off 5! I think powerplay should really be taken tactially , I am sure if India would have taken the powerplay against pakistan just after Raina slogged Malik in that 14 run over , and played normal cricket for 5 overs even managing 35 off 5 , we would have won.
sometime it makes sense to me to take a powerplay and play very normal cricket , no facy shots etc and just get 30 off 5 and take the game 5 overs forward and then judge the situation. Take it this way , powerplay , batting powerplay ( smells like somthing good for the batting team ) --> mean the bowling team is on disadvantge and on defensive , play with their minds , their efforts are down to take the wicket , rather they are looking to control you and the runs , play out 5 overs with 30 and you have got 30 close to the target and 5 overs less , and the same number of wickets and then you can plan accordingly.

Lets take an example:

India were 199/4 after 33 overs against pakistan when Raina slogged Malik.
104 required from 17 with 6 wickets in hand.

Take a batting powerplay.

get 25-30 from 5.(probably the worst case scenario , but lets take that only)

So you need , ~ 75 from 12 , 6 an over and 6 wickets in hand , I think you will fancy a shot at target aith Dravid and Raina at the wicket and Pathan to come.

The trick is that you never know when you can loose a wicket , when there can be on good ball and you are gone. So make the opposition divert their attention and change their plans. Also they are bound to get their good bowlers back now and weaker bowlers will then remain for the last overs , so even if you get out , you tail gets to face the less quality bowlers?


Pheww! So much so for the powerplay planning!

malikdeepak1
October 9th, 2009, 09:17 AM
Certainly i do not agree that Dhoni should be removed from captaincy , may be he comes out of this much stronger.

On Mishra , I think he is a talent. I would any day prefer a quality spinner over an ordinary fast bowler. So to me it makes less of sense to keep out Mishra because you need to play 3 fast bowlers. I still do not rate Murali that highly becasue (till the time I used to watch cricket) he was not comfortable bowling within the powerplays. Dharamsena , Jayasurya and others used to come before him to bowl with field up , that is crap to me.
Take Warne , Kumble and a couple of other greats , they can bowl anytime , no harm in even getting them the new bowl.
I guess we need to give Irfan another shot , he will be the t hird medium pacer and the extra batsmen India need. Yususf is not doing justice to his role. What I also do not get is why do you need to give Irfan the new ball and the batsmen thrash him all over and dent his confidence. Get him in with first or second change with cover and then build his confidence.
I would go with Mishra , Bhajji , Pathan and 2 seamers as the bowling power.



You took my words bro. Totally in agreement with you.

Powerplay is really tricky. But its waste if you take it in last five overs if you are batting first. Batting second will give you an advantage if you need some 40 of last 5 overs.
My take is it should not be taken in last 5 overs. If your set batsman gets out in last ten overs, the next batsman doesn't get enough time to build up momentum. You may loose the hold on situation if this happens. It should be idle to take between 30-38 overs if your team is 2 or 3 wickets down. If you are 5 down by 40th over then delay it to 42nd-43rd over not beyond that. It all depends on what situation you are in.
I remember against england Dhoni took powerplay immediately when Yuvraj came out to bat. It was a bad mistake which costed Yuvi's wicket. A player can not start hitting straight away.
My opinion is not to delay it till the last five overs.

One more thing i would again like to stress is that a player should not be given more than 15 chances at international level at a stretch. 15 continuous chances are sufficeint to judge a player at international level. Wo player FORM me hota hai isiliye team me aata hai. Many players perform at national level but fail at higher levels. Don't keep on carrying these players. They become a burden on team. Kick them once and they will definitely come back strongly if they have metal to reach those levels again like Dada, Zak and Yuvi did.

Samarkadian
October 14th, 2009, 05:32 PM
Timing of Champions League T20 is bad enough due to festival around. It is rarely attractive to masses like it was supposed to. Same is with Salve Challanger Trophy. Too much cricket is bad for everyone's taste. Seems like sponsors want to extract maximum out of T20 format.

malikdeepak1
October 15th, 2009, 04:34 PM
Venkatesh Prasad ka role bhi investigate karna chaahiye. He seems to be the graveyard of all Indian pace bowlers. Sab 140+ pe start karte hain, and then they come down to 125. Prasad is the bowling coach. He is known for nothing else but his humungous variety of slow, slower and slowest bowls. I am sure he is teaching all that jazz to his "students".

Kapil bhai
Yo suthra kaam to kar diya BCCI ne

http://www.cricinfo.com/india/content/current/story/429676.html (http://www.cricinfo.com/india/content/current/story/429676.html) :rock

anilsinghd
October 15th, 2009, 06:43 PM
Rahul Dravid, (http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/content/player/28114.html) brought in to shore up the middle order in bowler-friendly conditions in South Africa, has been dropped for the first two ODIs against Australia, a home series expected to be played on flat tracks.

Since his comeback, he has scored 14, 47, 39, 76 and 4 in five innings; the 39 came in a crucial 95-run opening stand in the final of the tri-series in Sri Lanka.

=============================

This is total nonsense , you cannot treat a senior player like this! Dravid was decent and did his bit andd did not deserve to be dropped , if at all he is dropped now , he did not deserve to be called at all. I thought cricket is a gentlemen's game ?

If any of those *stars* (Gambhir, Dhoni , Kohli, Pathan ) had shown a bit more application and stood by Dravid against Pak in Champions trophy we might have cracked that game !
I just hate this , it is so disappointing. Here is a guy with 11k Test Runs , 11k ODI runs , 38 International centuries and you treat him like this?

Samarkadian
October 16th, 2009, 12:29 PM
Anil, selecton committe now has K.Srikant as head who used to bash selectors over Ganguly- Chappel-Zaheer issue and clearly stood for Ganguly.
In subcontinent they want to make stars out of Rohit, Virat, Jadeja etc but outside they know these boys don't work. They would make good 50s at home and 5s in foreign. Yusuf Pathan is a good talent but his batting order makes him on toes always. Few failures outsed him. Now selection committe wants to have their cake and eat it too when it comes to young and experienced players. This was more of an insult to Dravid than a re-chance to few new faces. What is the use of Ishant, I don't understand. He is a test bowler and I am sure selectors would leave him for nothing after few matches instead of giving hi time to groom in domestic and junior teams. Only Tendulkar seems immune to all this. Selectors know that they can't touch him anyway. Dhoni himself lacks some backbone to show some respect to people like Dravid who helped Indian criket in batting world. This would surely shake Dravid's confidence. In my opinion , Dravid shall keep on playing T20 and say adieu to One Dayers to avoid such a disrespect. It would have been good had they change the captain for initial two one dayers. Dhoni would have come out of comfort zone.

akshaymalik84
December 6th, 2009, 12:22 PM
Lucky Lad lead India to no.1 position in test cricket.

VirJ
December 7th, 2009, 06:48 AM
In my opinion, Dhoni should not be the leading in all formats. He has lost his natural game of hitting evidently. He is good for T20. There is need to be decentralisation of captaincy for the healthy performances in upcoming times.


Dhoni has recently hit 2 test centuries. He is the best finisher in one day game in Indian team probably in the world now. I prefer this changed Dhoni who play more responcibly as a captain should always do. He is technically not so sound but within his limitations he always give the best.

VirJ
December 7th, 2009, 06:52 AM
Regarding Venky, Zaheer has become a better bowler under venky. A good coach doesnt has to be a best player. Just my 2 paise!

akshaymalik84
December 7th, 2009, 07:16 AM
Dhoni has recently hit 2 test centuries. He is the best finisher in one day game in Indian team probably in the world now. I prefer this changed Dhoni who play more responcibly as a captain should always do. He is technically not so sound but within his limitations he always give the best.

Disagree, India would not be out of ICC world T-20 if Dhoni would have played better. Ms Dhoni....30(20) and Y Pathan ...33(17) ...India 150 lost by 3 runs.

3rd ODI b/w Aus and India... Dhoni 6(15)....India lost by 3 run to Aus. .....Sachin played an Epic in that one.

Ist ODI b/w Aus and India...Dhoni 34(46) .....India lost by 4 runs.

He is good but not the best. Best till now is Micheal Bevan.

VirJ
December 7th, 2009, 07:23 AM
He is good but not the best. Best till now is Micheal Bevan.

Michael bevan is retired and I wasnt talking about all time great. I said "IS". You can compare Dhoni with Bevan when he retires. To have an average of more than 50 demands something.

akshaymalik84
December 7th, 2009, 07:30 AM
Michael bevan is retired and I wasnt talking about all time great. I said "IS". You can compare Dhoni with Bevan when he retires. To have an average of more than 50 demands something.

So is Don Bradman but people still compare him with Sachin.

Currently, Mike Hussey is far ahead than Dhoni.

http://cricketnext.in.com/news/dhoni-finds-out-secret-of-husseys-success/44923-32.html

VirJ
December 7th, 2009, 07:53 AM
Ya Hussey comes close in ODI ( he is ahead in test and technically more sound) Initially Hussey was well ahead but if you look at recent performances( last 2 or so) Dhoni is ahead of Hussey. This is debatable thats why I have used " probably" but pesonally I like Morkel more than Hussey.

I think we cant compare a person who is in the middle of his career to the one who has finished. Who knows Dhoni has an avegare of 30 when he reitres or may be he got 90. Again, I said I was comparing the current players people can compare whom they like.