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akshaymalik84
January 7th, 2010, 12:02 PM
Recently a bench of Supreme court including Justices Dalveer Bhandari, A K Patnaik & Solicitor General Gopal Subramaniam said,"When you say it is the world's oldest profession and when you are not able to curb it by laws, why don't you legalise it? You can then monitor the trade, rehabilitate and provide of medical aid to those involved in the trade."

The apex court said legalising sex trade would be a better option to avoid trafficking of women and said nowhere in the world has the trade been curbed by punitive measures. "They (sex trade) have been operating in one way or the other and nowhere in the world have they been able to curb it by legislation. In some cases, they are carried out in a sophisticated manner. So why don't you legalise it?" said the apex court.

What do you guys think how the legalisation of prostitutin will affect our society?

What does legalise really means? Is it about allowing sex trade openly or is it about giving respect to the sex workers?

kapdal
January 7th, 2010, 03:17 PM
Recently a bench of Supreme court including Justices Dalveer Bhandari, A K Patnaik & Solicitor General Gopal Subramaniam said,"When you say it is the world's oldest profession and when you are not able to curb it by laws, why don't you legalise it? You can then monitor the trade, rehabilitate and provide of medical aid to those involved in the trade."

The apex court said legalising sex trade would be a better option to avoid trafficking of women and said nowhere in the world has the trade been curbed by punitive measures. "They (sex trade) have been operating in one way or the other and nowhere in the world have they been able to curb it by legislation. In some cases, they are carried out in a sophisticated manner. So why don't you legalise it?" said the apex court.

What do you guys think how the legalisation of prostitutin will affect our society?

What does legalise really means? Is it about allowing sex trade openly or is it about giving respect to the sex workers?

Yeah, why not.

Legalisation is different from giving respect to the sex workers. It merely prevents their abuse by mafia and police.

What does the term “legalise” actually imply?
It would imply that consensual trade in sexual services between adult citizens is permitted.

Is it same as respect?
No, the govt. can't force anyone to respect anyone else. One can still hold that it is an immoral and disrespectful practice. It would just mean the sex workers can carry out their activities without being harassed by police/mafia. And of course, the law should include restrictions on when and where the activities can be carried out so that neighbourhood brothels don't mushroom everywhere making it "difficult" for other people.

This blog post does a very good job of looking at legal/social respectability issue.
http://acorn.nationalinterest.in/2009/12/15/on-legalising-prostitution/

rajkphogat
January 7th, 2010, 03:41 PM
Recently a bench of Supreme court including Justices Dalveer Bhandari, A K Patnaik & Solicitor General Gopal Subramaniam said,"When you say it is the world's oldest profession and when you are not able to curb it by laws, why don't you legalise it? You can then monitor the trade, rehabilitate and provide of medical aid to those involved in the trade."

The apex court said legalising sex trade would be a better option to avoid trafficking of women and said nowhere in the world has the trade been curbed by punitive measures. "They (sex trade) have been operating in one way or the other and nowhere in the world have they been able to curb it by legislation. In some cases, they are carried out in a sophisticated manner. So why don't you legalise it?" said the apex court.

What do you guys think how the legalisation of prostitutin will affect our society?

What does legalise really means? Is it about allowing sex trade openly or is it about giving respect to the sex workers?


Haan- haan legalise hi nahi corporatise bhi karo taki Sex workers ko poora daam mil sake. fer unka harrasment koye na kare, Ek corporatetive society bhi bana do, er sex worker union bhi.
Fir badi-2 companies Public ltd er pvt ltd is dhandey me utrengi er advt ke throguh unme recruitment hogi. har gali nukkad par in compnies ki branches hongi (Mktg strategy) to increase sale.

Gay etc legalise hone wala hai eb prost. bhi legalise kardyo fer ham poorey angrez ban jangey er maharey balak NRI.

Akki bhai ya kisi post geri tanne. Sex workers ko rehabilitate karan ka/harrasment te bachan ka yo kunsa tarika se bhai.

Bhai kauua chala hans ki chal apni chal bhi bhool gya purani kahawat se

yudhvirmor
January 7th, 2010, 03:43 PM
Recently a bench of Supreme court including Justices Dalveer Bhandari, A K Patnaik & Solicitor General Gopal Subramaniam said,"When you say it is the world's oldest profession and when you are not able to curb it by laws, why don't you legalise it? You can then monitor the trade, rehabilitate and provide of medical aid to those involved in the trade."

The apex court said legalising sex trade would be a better option to avoid trafficking of women and said nowhere in the world has the trade been curbed by punitive measures. "They (sex trade) have been operating in one way or the other and nowhere in the world have they been able to curb it by legislation. In some cases, they are carried out in a sophisticated manner. So why don't you legalise it?" said the apex court.

What do you guys think how the legalisation of prostitutin will affect our society?

What does legalise really means? Is it about allowing sex trade openly or is it about giving respect to the sex workers?

Isn't it legalized in India.. Most of Indian metros have red light areas.. I am sure its legal thats why they are operating.. We all know that it can't be banned so that Govt has to do some amendments in the constitution so that pimps, middleman, brothel owners should be keep out of this trade. I know it may not be pracitcally possible.

kapdal
January 7th, 2010, 03:56 PM
Isn't it legalized in India.. Most of Indian metros have red light areas.. I am sure its legal thats why they are operating.. We all know that it can't be banned so that Govt has to do some amendments in the constitution so that pimps, middleman, brothel owners should be keep out of this trade. I know it may not be pracitcally possible.

It is illegal in India right now. But omnipresent nevertheless. Policiyon aur netaaon ki regular income ka ek aur source.

rajesh00
January 7th, 2010, 04:35 PM
Naturalize it rather than legalize it?

akshaymalik84
January 7th, 2010, 04:36 PM
Yeah, why not.

Legalisation is different from giving respect to the sex workers. It merely prevents their abuse by mafia and police.

What does the term “legalise” actually imply?
It would imply that consensual trade in sexual services between adult citizens is permitted.

Is it same as respect?
No, the govt. can't force anyone to respect anyone else. One can still hold that it is an immoral and disrespectful practice. It would just mean the sex workers can carry out their activities without being harassed by police/mafia. And of course, the law should include restrictions on when and where the activities can be carried out so that neighbourhood brothels don't mushroom everywhere making it "difficult" for other people.

This blog post does a very good job of looking at legal/social respectability issue.
http://acorn.nationalinterest.in/2009/12/15/on-legalising-prostitution/

That means Legalisation will only prevant sex worker from harassment by police/mafia. It wont increase their statu/respect in society. Let us say if india legelise prostitution wouldn't it increase Child prostitution, foreign girls traffiction and more violation against women. Can it be helpful in reducing women/child molestaion?

yudhvirmor
January 7th, 2010, 04:39 PM
Naturalize it rather than legalize it?

More dating sites?
More Budha gardens?
Dating allowance?
Dating holidays like Dandiya nights?

akshaymalik84
January 7th, 2010, 04:41 PM
Naturalize it rather than legalize it?


Rajesh, can you please elaborate the term Naturalisation?

rajesh00
January 7th, 2010, 04:42 PM
More dating sites?
More Budha gardens?
Dating allowance?
Dating holidays like Dandiya nights?

No dear.You could not get it.I will come out with my details later.

rajesh00
January 7th, 2010, 04:44 PM
Sure i will but thoda later.



Rajesh, can you please elaborate the term Naturalisation?

rajkphogat
January 7th, 2010, 05:02 PM
More dating sites?
More Budha gardens?
Dating allowance?
Dating holidays like Dandiya nights?

Nahi bhai

legalise this, no fear of police/ society
Decentralise this no need to go budhha garden, you will find these centres at around ur home.
Instead of allowance companies can give prostitution centre coupons to their employee.

fer natural feeling aawegi andar se................................

Ek chij te se India dhorey Sankriti wa aur bigaad jagi,

Ghani padai bhi aadmi ka dimaag fira de se Wo e hon lag rya se tham log itney padhe likhey balak hoki kis cheez ne support karo so bhai ER KYOO SUPPORT KARO SO , Meri samaj te bahar se.

rajkphogat
January 7th, 2010, 05:04 PM
No dear.You could not get it.I will come out with my details later.

Sure i will but thoda later.

R hindi bata de bhai thodi der me k anrezi me translation kara ki lyawega.

kapdal
January 7th, 2010, 05:16 PM
That means Legalisation will only prevant sex worker from harassment by police/mafia. It wont increase their statu/respect in society. Let us say if india legelise prostitution wouldn't it increase Child prostitution, foreign girls traffiction and more violation against women. Can it be helpful in reducing women/child molestaion?

Question on status/respect is not for the state to answer. It is determined by societal norms.

It should actually help in decreasing child prostitution and trafficking. Because the law would take care of those aspects by making it legal for "consensual adults" only. Right now, since the whole thing is illegal, it pushes everything to "jungle ka kanoon".

Molestation/harassment is a different issue, more a reflection of the society we live in and the respect we have for women.

choudharyneelam
January 7th, 2010, 05:35 PM
What a great idea! Gays' aur lesbians' matters to aasaan kar hi diye aur ab ye naya great idea leke aaye hain. For sure Indian are having a new vision to make India a developed nation. Doesn't matter they copy other countries in other developments or not, doesn't matter they discuss n retain good culture here or not, but for sure they will give the relief to many to breathe openly. Bechare ghut-ghut ke jee rahe logon ko khuli hawa milegi.

Kuchh din baad to ye bhi legal kar denge ki jo bhi govt. officers jaise ki pakde gaye the (I think in Mumbai) with prostitutes wo ghar bhi laa sakenge ek do ko. Unki wives to kuchh kar hi nahin paayengi court mein khadi hoke bhi.

I think beggars should also be given due respect which they are not getting in actual and they should all be permitted to beg. No complaints to administrators of that region, or taking police-wala's help to get them removed from footpaths or disturbing the traffic at red light.

Also, I think eve-teasing should be made legal. Please think over it. As many people desire for that, enjoy it very much. Why govt. is not thinking for those people? Why only for prostitutes? Anyways, feels like they are more lucky. Don't worry, if anybody reading this....then I make u assure that govt. will make something legal for eve-teasers too. Huh!!....pathetic

Live n let other's live is applicable in every sense. No matter, let the values n culture go off.

But one great benefit that I can calculate from this is that no. of rape cases will get reduced. Superb idea!!

yudhvirmor
January 7th, 2010, 06:07 PM
What a great idea! Gays' aur lesbians' matters to aasaan kar hi diye aur ab ye naya great idea leke aaye hain. For sure Indian are having a new vision to make India a developed nation. Doesn't matter they copy other countries in other developments or not, doesn't matter they discuss n retain good culture here or not, but for sure they will give the relief to many to breathe openly. Bechare ghut-ghut ke jee rahe logon ko khuli hawa milegi.

Its not a solution. Its a painful process to abolish this practice slowly and panifully. Its a known fact that complete ban in prostiution is only possible in autocratic countries like Saudi Arabia. If there will demand, there will be supply in any society. All we are talking about is to make it tough for a buyer and also make sure that seller don't suffer.

Kuchh din baad to ye bhi legal kar denge ki jo bhi govt. officers jaise ki pakde gaye the (I think in Mumbai) with prostitutes wo ghar bhi laa sakenge ek do ko. Unki wives to kuchh kar hi nahin paayengi court mein khadi hoke bhi.

Bigamy is illegal as per our constiution. Its lack of awarness that any woman is allowing her husband to do that. Anybody can drag them to court and settle it once for all.

I think beggars should also be given due respect which they are not getting in actual and they should all be permitted to beg. No complaints to administrators of that region, or taking police-wala's help to get them removed from footpaths or disturbing the traffic at red light.

Beggars, prostitues belong to same section of society: Poor and under-privledged.. It's the responsiblity of govt system to rehabilate both of them. However, If some man/woman wants earn his/her livings from Prostiution then they should be allowed but making sure that they are not getting exploited.

Also, I think eve-teasing should be made legal. Please think over it. As many people desire for that, enjoy it very much. Why govt. is not thinking for those people? Why only for prostitutes? Anyways, feels like they are more lucky. Don't worry, if anybody reading this....then I make u assure that govt. will make something legal for eve-teasers too. Huh!!....pathetic

Stats proved that crime against women is more in those countires where prostitution is strictly banned. Its a bitter truth and can't be tackle alone with law. We need broaden approach like sex education, health care services, bringing in family values, cutting down on resources of porn material,

Live n let other's live is applicable in every sense. No matter, let the values n culture go off.

Culture is dynamic entitiy and its bound to change so that it can survive. I think its changed thats why you or I are allowed to discuss these kind of senstive issues.

But one great benefit that I can calculate from this is that no. of rape cases will get reduced. Superb idea!!

Please find my reply in bold..

rajkphogat
January 7th, 2010, 06:10 PM
What a great idea! Gays' aur lesbians' matters to aasaan kar hi diye aur ab ye naya great idea leke aaye hain. For sure Indian are having a new vision to make India a developed nation. Doesn't matter they copy other countries in other developments or not, doesn't matter they discuss n retain good culture here or not, but for sure they will give the relief to many to breathe openly. Bechare ghut-ghut ke jee rahe logon ko khuli hawa milegi.

Kuchh din baad to ye bhi legal kar denge ki jo bhi govt. officers jaise ki pakde gaye the (I think in Mumbai) with prostitutes wo ghar bhi laa sakenge ek do ko. Unki wives to kuchh kar hi nahin paayengi court mein khadi hoke bhi.

I think beggars should also be given due respect which they are not getting in actual and they should all be permitted to beg. No complaints to administrators of that region, or taking police-wala's help to get them removed from footpaths or disturbing the traffic at red light.

Also, I think eve-teasing should be made legal. Please think over it. As many people desire for that, enjoy it very much. Why govt. is not thinking for those people? Why only for prostitutes? Anyways, feels like they are more lucky. Don't worry, if anybody reading this....then I make u assure that govt. will make something legal for eve-teasers too. Huh!!....pathetic

Live n let other's live is applicable in every sense. No matter, let the values n culture go off.

But one great benefit that I can calculate from this is that no. of rape cases will get reduced. Superb idea!!

Nice thoughts Neelam I appriciates it.

I think this thread will not get better post then this one. :rock:rock:rock

kapdal
January 7th, 2010, 06:19 PM
Nahi bhai

legalise this, no fear of police/ society
Decentralise this no need to go budhha garden, you will find these centres at around ur home.
Instead of allowance companies can give prostitution centre coupons to their employee.


Bhai legalise karne aur encourage karne main bahut difference hota hai. Aur police ka darr? Yeh to police ki naak ke neeche kaam karte hain khulle aam. Police aur neta paisa peette hain jama. Ghar ke paas fir bhi possible nahin hoga. Any law would need to have "zoning restrictions", which would restrict the location to existing red light areas.



[B]Ek chij te se India dhorey Sankriti wa aur bigaad jagi,

Bhai yeh sanskriti kahaan jaati hai jab abhi sab khulle aam hota hai? Sanskriti sirf legal karne se bigad jaagi? Agar yeh sanskriti pe dhabba hai to khatam karro jad se. Kai hazaar saal to ho liye isse isi sanskriti mein rehte hue (earliest civilizations' documents mention prostitution).

rajesh00
January 7th, 2010, 06:21 PM
Before we get carried away and pour in our limited horizon here let us discuss the matter in more pragmatic manner and do not get cheap thrills out of a woo con topic and for god's sake do not dump your immaturity here.

What is prostitution: Prostitution is nothing but a sexual meeting grounds of opposite sex where in a female finds it ok to sell her body for a few bucks and men satisfy their lust by paying that money ( Men can be be a bachalor or married)

How Old is the profession: It is as old as the earth

Why it became popular and existed inspite of Social outbursts: Because of the thrills attached,no responsibilities for the act and it sold/sells like a commodity.Pay and carry ( May be AIDS)

Conditions of prostitutes: Less said is better about.No dignity,no respect,harassments and mental agony,terrible desease and no future for self and children if any.Very agonizing old age ofcourse.

Condition of Men Visiting these free lance: No self esteem,Cheating,Habitual loaters and time wasters,Disloyals.Some of them fortunate to find a temporary parteners,Harbingers of great diseases.


Legalize or Naturalize: I feel naturalize by spreading the word through consience planning and execution at all levels basically from Govt side to educate masses about the ill effects of these activities and let the people decide natually as to what is good for them and their families.


After all there are so many other important things in life than the activity of prostitution.Legalization will not help in any way.Rather it will grip the society in many more ways as Neelam brought about.

rajkphogat
January 7th, 2010, 06:22 PM
Please find my reply in bold..

bhai mor,

PFA my queries in NON BOLD

Its not a solution. Its a painful process to abolish this practice slowly and panifully. Its a known fact that complete ban in prostiution is only possible in autocratic countries like Saudi Arabia. If there will demand, there will be supply in any society. All we are talking about is to make it tough for a buyer and also make sure that seller don't suffer.

How this practice will b abolished by this way?? Bhai tu te isis baat kare se janu ek kisaan apni fasal bechta ho mandi me ek bhai aacha bhav mil ja.

Its lack of awarness that any woman is allowing her husband to do that. Anybody can drag them to court and settle it once for all.

Bhai wa kunsi wife se jo ya allow kare se bigamy ne. Raji hoki te koye na kar sake eb kisey k baski e na ho ya balkan kani dekhti ho wa k kare

Beggars, prostitues belong to same section of society: Poor and under-privledged.. It's the responsiblity of govt system to rehabilate both of them. However, If some man/woman wants earn his/her livings from Prostiution then they should be allowed but making sure that they are not getting exploited.

Bhai yo te assan solution se fer govt Tax bbhi daal degi ispey revenue ka bhi fayda par ek baat samaj me naa aayi ispe Income Tax lagega ek Sales Tax.

Stats proved that crime against women is more in those countires where prostitution is strictly banned. Its a bitter truth and can't be tackle alone with law. We need broaden approach like sex education, health care services, bringing in family values, cutting down on resources of porn material,

Bhai As per stats anpadh logga me apni wife se maarpeet bhi kare se to fer maarpeet bhi legal kardyo againts womens

Culture is dynamic entitiy and its bound to change so that it can survive. I think its changed thats why you or I are allowed to discuss these kind of senstive issues.

Rey Change karan ne bhateri kuritiyan se samaj me tanne ya chij payi wa bhi isey tarrikey te.

rajkphogat
January 7th, 2010, 06:27 PM
Bhai legalise karne aur encourage karne main bahut difference hota hai. Aur police ka darr? Yeh to police ki naak ke neeche kaam karte hain khulle aam. Police aur neta paisa peette hain jama. Ghar ke paas fir bhi possible nahin hoga. Any law would need to have "zoning restrictions", which would restrict the location to existing red light areas.

Bhai Legal kar diya te encouragement e hogya. Eb police ki naak k nichhe howe se fer sabkey sir pe howega.


Bhai yeh sanskriti kahaan jaati hai jab abhi sab khulle aam hota hai? Sanskriti sirf legal karne se bigad jaagi? Agar yeh sanskriti pe dhabba hai to khatam karro jad se. Kai hazaar saal to ho liye isse isi sanskriti mein rehte hue (earliest civilizations' documents mention prostitution.)

Bhai khulley aam k howe se prostituion kunsey gaam me howe se bhai manne bhi bata. Jad te khatam karan ka yo kunsa tarika bhai istey te jadd boowen aur gi.

kapdal
January 7th, 2010, 06:32 PM
Very well said, especially this one.


Culture is dynamic entitiy and its bound to change so that it can survive. I think its changed thats why you or I are allowed to discuss these kind of senstive issues. ..

I wonder what Neelamji will think if a "culture" from 50-100 years back was imposed and she was not even allowed to go to school, forget about participating in a debate on prostitution.

kapdal
January 7th, 2010, 06:42 PM
Bhai sahab, yeh thoda zyada ho gaya. Earth is as old as 4,400,000,000 yrs. Atleast let the life begin on earth (2,800,000,000 yr). And the first asexual organisms develop into sexual ones (570,000,000 yrs). Uske baad se hum aapki baat maan lete hain, halanki proper manas 300,000 yr se zyada purana nahin hai...:)



How Old is the profession: It is as old as the earth

ranvijay
January 7th, 2010, 06:44 PM
What a great idea! Gays' aur lesbians' matters to aasaan kar hi diye aur ab ye naya great idea leke aaye hain. For sure Indian are having a new vision to make India a developed nation. Doesn't matter they copy other countries in other developments or not, doesn't matter they discuss n retain good culture here or not, but for sure they will give the relief to many to breathe openly. Bechare ghut-ghut ke jee rahe logon ko khuli hawa milegi.

Kuchh din baad to ye bhi legal kar denge ki jo bhi govt. officers jaise ki pakde gaye the (I think in Mumbai) with prostitutes wo ghar bhi laa sakenge ek do ko. Unki wives to kuchh kar hi nahin paayengi court mein khadi hoke bhi.

I think beggars should also be given due respect which they are not getting in actual and they should all be permitted to beg. No complaints to administrators of that region, or taking police-wala's help to get them removed from footpaths or disturbing the traffic at red light.

Also, I think eve-teasing should be made legal. Please think over it. As many people desire for that, enjoy it very much. Why govt. is not thinking for those people? Why only for prostitutes? Anyways, feels like they are more lucky. Don't worry, if anybody reading this....then I make u assure that govt. will make something legal for eve-teasers too. Huh!!....pathetic

Live n let other's live is applicable in every sense. No matter, let the values n culture go off.

But one great benefit that I can calculate from this is that no. of rape cases will get reduced. Superb idea!!
Neelam have u ever been to a red light area?

How many women u have met who live (rather die) down pathetically down these streets?

Do you hv ny idea what will b the consequences of legalising this system practically? What happens when its legalised?

Jumping onto conclusion without evaluation !

First of all to make it clear, if prostitution is legalised then it DOES NOT mean that u will see such things happening 'ghar ke bagal me' ! There will be set limitations & rules for everything. Red light area exist in every city, iilegally yet openly. Legalising means allowing such things to operate in certain areas, as per stipulated rules which will obviously include rules that will attend to the call of a sex worker who has been forcefully made to get into all this etc etc etc ....... there is a lots more !

akshaymalik84
January 7th, 2010, 06:49 PM
In 1999,Sweden passed a legislation that
a) criminalizes the buying of sex, and
b) decriminalizes the selling of sex.

In just five years Sweden has dramatically reduced the number of its women in prostitution. In the capital city of Stockholm the number of women in street prostitution has been reduced by two thirds, and the number of johns has been reduced by 80%. There are other major Swedish cities where street prostitution has all but disappeared.In addition, the number of foreign women now being trafficked into Sweden for sex is nil. The Swedish government estimates that in the last few years only 200 to 400 women and girls have been annually sex trafficked into Sweden, a figure that's negligible compared to the 15,000 to 17,000 females yearly sex trafficked into neighbouring Finland. No other country, nor any other social experiment, has come anywhere near Sweden's promising results.

http://www.justicewomen.com/cj_sweden.html

rajkphogat
January 7th, 2010, 08:34 PM
Neelam have u ever been to a red light area?

How many women u have met who live (rather die) down pathetically down these streets?

Do you hv ny idea what will b the consequences of legalising this system practically? What happens when its legalised?

Jumping onto conclusion without evaluation !

First of all to make it clear, if prostitution is legalised then it DOES NOT mean that u will see such things happening 'ghar ke bagal me' ! There will be set limitations & rules for everything. Red light area exist in every city, iilegally yet openly. Legalising means allowing such things to operate in certain areas, as per stipulated rules which will obviously include rules that will attend to the call of a sex worker who has been forcefully made to get into all this etc etc etc ....... there is a lots more !

Bhai Ranvijay tu bhot haandrya dikhe se red light area me, Samaj sevak te na se?

Now tell me e thing bhai Is this is the only way to help these sex workers ?

Do you think by legalising this no women will forcibly thrown into flesh tarde?

By legalising this Pimp, brothel owner etc will get a new tool to escape law and harras womens.
one of my freind say by legalising this sex workers will be saved from police harrasment, bhai harras te unne pimp er brothelowner karese er we log kare se jo isi jagah jawe se.

If legalised then So called modern society girls will get a legal source of income to finance their levish lifestyle Wo cheez kyoo bhullo so bhai.

rajkphogat
January 7th, 2010, 08:41 PM
Bhai sahab, yeh thoda zyada ho gaya. Earth is as old as 4,400,000,000 yrs. Atleast let the life begin on earth (2,800,000,000 yr). And the first asexual organisms develop into sexual ones (570,000,000 yrs). Uske baad se hum aapki baat maan lete hain, halanki proper manas 300,000 yr se zyada purana nahin hai...:)


R yo data kit te lyaya bhai thik te se ne kadey kisey aagey bollu er bejti hoja bata diye galat ho te:rock:rock:rock

yudhvirmor
January 7th, 2010, 08:45 PM
Bhai Ranvijay tu bhot haandrya dikhe se red light area me, Samaj sevak te na se?

Now tell me e thing bhai Is this is the only way to help these sex workers ?

Do you think by legalising this no women will forcibly thrown into flesh tarde?

By legalising this Pimp, brothel owner etc will get a new tool to escape law and harras womens.
one of my freind say by legalising this sex workers will be saved from police harrasment, bhai harras te unne pimp er brothelowner karese er we log kare se jo isi jagah jawe se.

If legalised then So called modern society girls will get a legal source of income to finance their levish lifestyle Wo cheez kyoo bhullo so bhai.
Its still there.. Just googe Gurgaon Escorts.. You'll find thousands of ads...I think we need to diffrentiate between Idealism and Practical Options. This thing can't be eradicated in day or two..

1. Improve Education, Heatlh services.
2. Overhaul Police, Adiminstration and Law agencies.
3. Kill evil practices like dowry, Pseudo Self Esteem and Female Foeticide
4. Put sex education as a subject in schools and make sure young minds understand they physiolgogical changes and they should know how to respond to them.
5. The we can think about Legalizing or Banning the prostitution.
We need to cut demand first than we can think of cutting down on supply. Just by banning it or punishing some people won't bring any results..

rajkphogat
January 7th, 2010, 09:01 PM
Its still there.. Just googe Gurgaon Escorts.. You'll find thousands of ads...I think we need to diffrentiate between Idealism and Practical Options. This thing can't be eradicated in day or two..

1. Improve Education, Heatlh services.
2. Overhaul Police, Adiminstration and Law agencies.
3. Kill evil practices like dowry, Pseudo Self Esteem and Female Foeticide
4. Put sex education as a subject in schools and make sure young minds understand they physiolgogical changes and they should know how to respond to them.
5. The we can think about Legalizing or Banning the prostitution.
We need to cut demand first than we can think of cutting down on supply. Just by banning it or punishing some people won't bring any results..

That is the thing bhai which i want to say to you.

Legalising is not solution but a big problem. real thing which govt shuld do are which you told.

for immedite action: try to get sex workers into main stream by giving them some kind of vocational training & rehabilitate them
Get their childrens admitted into local schools.
put brothel owners & associated persons behind bar & sentence them max. punishment.

Par krega kaun hamari govt. to so rahi hai aur hame kisi se kya matlab JL pe 4 line likh do police ko galiyan do idhar udhar copy paste karo aur so jao.

annch
January 7th, 2010, 09:32 PM
There is a docu-movie-"Born into Brothels". The story is of seven children born in the infamous Sonagachi in Calcutta. Intelligent, very talented but still facing strong resistance in their quest for knowledge.
The legalisation would improve the future of these children, who would get some semblance of opportunities and dignity (hopefully from rest of the society)

shailendra
January 7th, 2010, 10:29 PM
You know on a separate note and for what it is worth:
I get reminded of a parallel example - Dharavi is one of the biggest slums in Asia (or is it the world?)...and I, like I am sure quite some more of you, have closely tried to follow the process where such areas have been ear marked for numerous new governmental efforts of redevelopment, of creating and freely providing legal structures rather than illegal encroachments (by going ahead and building new homes, row-houses....apartments....multifamily structures) but somehow the conditions have never....ever....managed to get uplifted; squatters have left such redeveloped areas only to go back and continue from where they had left off..........something to do with how much the process of living in such backward/depressed areas is deeply addled and rooted into the mindset of a regular jhuggi dweller.............

Well, take what you may from that example....that is if one really wants to similarily start comparing some of the other social “problems” like Prostitution (and dare I even mention 377 or ‘Gay Rights’ here again???) and looking deeply into whether if a society like that with the Indian sub-continent sort of mindset would EVER undergo sea changes just by legalizing something that is always such a taboo deep under-belly subject…. (Or lifestyle)!

kapdal
January 7th, 2010, 10:38 PM
There is a docu-movie-"Born into Brothels". The story is of seven children born in the infamous Sonagachi in Calcutta. Intelligent, very talented but still facing strong resistance in their quest for knowledge.
The legalisation would improve the future of these children, who would get some semblance of opportunities and dignity (hopefully from rest of the society)

And in the process, give them a career choice beyond the brothel. Currently, it is almost a compulsion for them. I can imagine that several would want to escape that life. Thus reducing prostitution, atleast the "not by choice" type.

annch
January 8th, 2010, 12:14 AM
Shailendra ji,

I beg to differ slightly with the parallelism.

Like you said, Dharavi is a mindset. Its also a lifestyle that people find easy to maintain when given a choice between squalor and row houses, etc where they would pay for the amenities/facilities. They make a choice that suits them. Whereas prostitution starts as no-choice and ends with no-choices for majority of the women and children.

Regards

You know on a separate note and for what it is worth:
I get reminded of a parallel example - Dharavi is one of the biggest slums in Asia (or is it the world?)...and I, like I am sure quite some more of you, have closely tried to follow the process where such areas have been ear marked for numerous new governmental efforts of redevelopment, of creating and freely providing legal structures rather than illegal encroachments (by going ahead and building new homes, row-houses....apartments....multifamily structures) but somehow the conditions have never....ever....managed to get uplifted; squatters have left such redeveloped areas only to go back and continue from where they had left off..........something to do with how much the process of living in such backward/depressed areas is deeply addled and rooted into the mindset of a regular jhuggi dweller.............

Well, take what you may from that example....that is if one really wants to similarily start comparing some of the other social “problems” like Prostitution (and dare I even mention 377 or ‘Gay Rights’ here again???) and looking deeply into whether if a society like that with the Indian sub-continent sort of mindset would EVER undergo sea changes just by legalizing something that is always such a taboo deep under-belly subject…. (Or lifestyle)!

poonam
January 8th, 2010, 12:20 AM
and looking deeply into whether if a society like that with the Indian sub-continent sort of mindset would EVER undergo sea changes just by legalizing something that is always such a taboo deep under-belly subject…. (Or lifestyle)!

Totally!
Also, the new changing 'modern' mindset is represented only by a minority group (I'm glad to say...or dare I say ...most of us here belong to that group..)...What about the vast (narrow n conventional mind set) group back there...Legalization would earn respect/dignity for the sex workers..I highly doubt that! But yeah..sex workers themselves can feel a lil' better i believe, at par.. job wise with others..paying taxes and all!

annch
January 8th, 2010, 12:21 AM
Taking a cue from other posters on the thread-

Aren't these unfortunate women akin to social workers providing some "solace" to the "troubled" men in the society?

Might as well legalise them, and allow them to atleast make a decent earning, that otherwise goes into the pockets of police/mafia who provide them protection from "legal" repurcussions.......

These service providers to the frustrated men will always be there......so, will be the stigma from the very society that creates it.........legalisation will let these women and their families be compensated with money atleast if nothing else.

poonam
January 8th, 2010, 12:24 AM
And in the process, give them a career choice beyond the brothel. .

What if they start considering brothel as a career option..after legalization!! Food for thought..

poonam
January 8th, 2010, 12:26 AM
Having said that..I'm pro-legalization. Saaf saaf shabdo main..in case...

shailendra
January 8th, 2010, 02:42 AM
Shailendra ji,

I beg to differ slightly with the parallelism.

Like you said, Dharavi is a mindset. Its also a lifestyle that people find easy to maintain when given a choice between squalor and row houses, etc where they would pay for the amenities/facilities. They make a choice that suits them. Whereas prostitution starts as no-choice and ends with no-choices for majority of the women and children.

Regards

Anju-ji (hey, what's with this whole 'ji' thingy??? :p)

...yeah, but don't you see that then "they" (in Dharavi) are ending up choosing something that is taking them back to the squalor? ...and the illegal, the unknown, and the repressed???... or maybe there is more to this that meets the simple eye (legalize/not-legalize) and is in fact a deadly, dirty nexus of the social underbelly that makes all the players in the mix, hooked (tied, chained) to some sort of evil cycle/circle?...

Prostitution too is likely the same "vicious circle" that legalization is not likely to make any inroads into 'sudhaaro-ing' the situation....
And also as to the 'starts as no-choice' thingy.... well, I don't really think the legalization is gonna help much those other folks that live constantly below the poverty line and/or sell their kids for maybe just a better one month of living (read: food).... It has been established for long now that the situation actually needs a bigger picture major change to really make a dent in the lives of these poor, "stuck" women...and their kids who may be aspiring for a better tomorrow.....

If one were to really take the same discussion about Prostitution and add the bigger gorilla in the room like.... health, aids, hygiene, epidemic, diseases, unawareness sort of issues....that I think would probably be the more relevant discussion and something that the concerned NGO's (n' these movies/docu-dramas) are anyways fighting for;..... something more relevant than worrying about givng them a 'legal' -Hey, I got a 'hot' job (no pun intended!) status per say....

kapdal
January 8th, 2010, 05:14 AM
What if they start considering brothel as a career option..after legalization!! Food for thought..

Theoretically, that risk is there. Practically speaking, how many would feel encouraged to do something generally considered unacceptable (to self, family, society, etc.) just because it has been legalised? I admit it would be a non-zero number, but not significant. One has to balance that against the clear choice available to "opt out" to several, who otherwise have no choice. Besides, for those who want to get into this by choice, law is not a big deal anyways. They just pay "tax" to police/authorities and carry on.

rajkphogat
January 8th, 2010, 09:40 AM
What if they start considering brothel as a career option..after legalization!! Food for thought..

Then childrens will hav another career option

Govt will get more Tax revenue

People who do not work can rent their premises for the said purpose.

Jo kaam ab chup kar bach bacha ke hota hai fir organised tarikey se hoga

That will be a win-2 situation for all associated

EB PET BHARGYA POONAM AUR ISEY THOUGHT KHAN NE NA DIYE.

jitendershooda
January 8th, 2010, 09:45 AM
Some people always talk about Indian Culture. So what is Indian Culture should be taken into account. For this issue, what is the history of prostitution in India?

I remember readings that it was during chanakya, Mahatma budh times too. Was it legalised that time or undercover? Looking at ajanta, allora, khajuraho, puri temples it seems that Indian culture was too open than today in those times. And perhaps it was invasion by muslims that brings the difference that we see today.

Isnt that so?

rajkphogat
January 8th, 2010, 09:53 AM
In 1999,Sweden passed a legislation that
a) criminalizes the buying of sex, and
b) decriminalizes the selling of sex.

In just five years Sweden has dramatically reduced the number of its women in prostitution. In the capital city of Stockholm the number of women in street prostitution has been reduced by two thirds, and the number of johns has been reduced by 80%. There are other major Swedish cities where street prostitution has all but disappeared.In addition, the number of foreign women now being trafficked into Sweden for sex is nil. The Swedish government estimates that in the last few years only 200 to 400 women and girls have been annually sex trafficked into Sweden, a figure that's negligible compared to the 15,000 to 17,000 females yearly sex trafficked into neighbouring Finland. No other country, nor any other social experiment, has come anywhere near Sweden's promising results.

http://www.justicewomen.com/cj_sweden.html

Aki Bhai yo sweden na se.

Wahan ki Rishwatkhori er India ki rishwatkhori ne aur compare karley

India me kannon bantey hain kagzo me dafan ho janey k liye, ek aur Act will give Law students ek aur chapter & Court me us kaanon key purpose ki Dhajjiyan udti hain.

sanjaymalik
January 8th, 2010, 09:54 AM
Then childrens will hav another career option

Govt will get more Tax revenue

People who do not work can rent their premises for the said purpose.

Jo kaam ab chup kar bach bacha ke hota hai fir organised tarikey se hoga

That will be a win-2 situation for all associated

EB PET BHARGYA POONAM AUR ISEY THOUGHT KHAN NE NA DIYE.

Certainly it may be in organised manner if legalised it. Every district may get one building like District Sectriate, District Prostitution Officer, Distt Prostitution Medical officer, Prostitution Welfare Offer will be their to take care of all necesacities. Even sujhav avam shikayat petika be found, if u have any grievence.So new vacancy new jobs, new carrier opportunity. Cheer's

jitendershooda
January 8th, 2010, 09:59 AM
Bigamy is illegal as per our constiution. Its lack of awarness that any woman is allowing her husband to do that. Anybody can drag them to court and settle it once for all.


I know few people who have done undercover second marriage though they have not been divorced by first one. Dowry and divorce cases are still pending and looking at the pace of judgement by courts nobody wants to ruin their life that they have got. So they have done second marriage but without any recognition. This is Bigamy.

Though their wives have filed for bigamy but they couldnt proved it yet. In india, law is there but with no affectiveness on the grounds.

One case I wish to share here related to bigamy of rohtak court .... He was in army and filed a case for divorce with his wife on the allegation of bigamy. Now he has to prove this in court. He produced evidence of his holidays when he was posted in J&K and they were like that the baby his wife delivered was proved not related to him. Like wo chutti aya july mein er balak hogya december mein. Rohtak court ne uske khilaf nirnya sunaya kafi saal ke baad. Pher wo gaya chandigarh .... ke bera ke saal uneh lae honge. Justice delayed is then justice denied.

So its hard to prove all these in our indian scenerio but it doesnt mean that they shouldnt do that ... dabav se hi sudhar aaega yahan.

rajkphogat
January 8th, 2010, 10:04 AM
Some people always talk about Indian Culture. So what is Indian Culture should be taken into account. For this issue, what is the history of prostitution in India?

I remember readings that it was during chanakya, Mahatma budh times too. Was it legalised that time or undercover? Looking at ajanta, allora, khajuraho, puri temples it seems that Indian culture was too open than today in those times. And perhaps it was invasion by muslims that brings the difference that we see today.

Isnt that so?


Bhai Hooda ji

Ek baat aur padh lyo e Ajanta er khujraho jis time baney they us time log grasth jiwan chhod ke sadhu sant bana lagrey the purpose of that khujraho was to attract those persons into Grahsth jiwan thats why these photos etc were present in Mandirs.

Hahahahah............... Tanney te purpose e badal diya bhai Mandir banan ka.

rajkphogat
January 8th, 2010, 10:09 AM
Certainly it may be in organised manner if legalised it. Every district may get one building like District Sectriate, District Prostitution Officer, Distt Prostitution Medical officer, Prostitution Welfare Offer will be their to take care of all necesacities. Even sujhav avam shikayat petika be found, if u have any grievence.So new vacancy new jobs, new carrier opportunity. Cheer's


Bhai fer Sales executives bhi bharti hongey unmey equivalen to Sectionn officers

Later on Sex workes k liye nai Admn Services Shru hongi IPRS (Indian Prostitution Services), which will proved to be hot choice among civil services aspirants( at least in case of boys)

hahahhahaha....................................... ...

sanjaymalik
January 8th, 2010, 10:15 AM
its a old aged profession but it has always been fourished undercover only. So it would be better to legalised it with proper implementatin of legislature, rules and processures. By providing proper place or specific area, so that the sexs workers living conditions will be improved. They and thier offspring will be able to get better aminites, social recoginition etc. Befare legalisation need to conduct servey like what kind and where space can be provid to them what will be terms and condition, rules to carry out this old ages profession.

rajkphogat
January 8th, 2010, 10:25 AM
its a old aged profession but it has always been fourished undercover only. So it would be better to legalised it with proper implementatin of legislature, rules and processures. By providing proper place or specific area, so that the sexs workers leaving conditions will be improved. They and thier offspring will be able to get better aminites, social recoginition etc. Befare legalisation need to conduct servey like what kind and where space can be provid to them what will be terms and condition, rules to carry out this old ages profession.

leaving conditions ek living conditions guru

Sati pratha bhot purani thi wa kyoo band karwayi bhai usney bhi nayar kannon bana ki specific area me lagoo karo, Social recog. dyo, alag shamshan ghat banao sati hon thai. Same for Baal Vivah.

Bhai problem Sex workers ki condition na se Prostitution se er usko khatam karney ki bajay usko legal karna te bimaari badana se.

akshaymalik84
January 8th, 2010, 10:47 AM
Some people always talk about Indian Culture. So what is Indian Culture should be taken into account. For this issue, what is the history of prostitution in India?

I remember readings that it was during chanakya, Mahatma budh times too. Was it legalised that time or undercover? Looking at ajanta, allora, khajuraho, puri temples it seems that Indian culture was too open than today in those times. And perhaps it was invasion by muslims that brings the difference that we see today.

Isnt that so?

Jitu bhai, Prostitution is as old as the organised society. Even in Vedas, prostitution is consider as an organised and established institution. Remember Menka caused the downfall of Vishwamitra was sent by Indra. That was also some kind of prostitution. Aryan rulers encourage the system of guest prostitution. They used to present the best available to their friends. Arthasasthra contains rules for prostitutes and their activities and gives an account of how prostitutes should behave and how their lives are ordered. There were even religous prostitutes which were called Devadasi. Prostitution also flourished during the time of Muslims. Aurangazeb was an exception.

choudharyneelam
January 8th, 2010, 11:36 AM
If legalised then So called modern society girls will get a legal source of income to finance their levish lifestyle Wo cheez kyoo bhullo so bhai.

Agreed point.

Ranvijayji main statistics to saath leke chalti nahin lekin aapki baat bhi maan leti hun. Aur aane do ye ek aur naya law with set limitations n rules.....baaki to newspaper bayaan karega. Wait for the legalisation first, n then for the news in TOI, HT or any other gud source of News.

choudharyneelam
January 8th, 2010, 11:38 AM
Some people always talk about Indian Culture. So what is Indian Culture should be taken into account. For this issue, what is the history of prostitution in India?

I remember readings that it was during chanakya, Mahatma budh times too. Was it legalised that time or undercover? Looking at ajanta, allora, khajuraho, puri temples it seems that Indian culture was too open than today in those times. And perhaps it was invasion by muslims that brings the difference that we see today.

Isnt that so?

Sir, you have a point.

cooljat
January 8th, 2010, 12:04 PM
.

I second with you Kapil Bhai. Very valid point indeed.


Yeah, it should be legalized !






Legalisation is different from giving respect to the sex workers. It merely prevents their abuse by mafia and police.

What does the term “legalise” actually imply?
It would imply that consensual trade in sexual services between adult citizens is permitted.

Is it same as respect?
No, the govt. can't force anyone to respect anyone else. One can still hold that it is an immoral and disrespectful practice. It would just mean the sex workers can carry out their activities without being harassed by police/mafia. And of course, the law should include restrictions on when and where the activities can be carried out so that neighbourhood brothels don't mushroom everywhere making it "difficult" for other people.

This blog post does a very good job of looking at legal/social respectability issue.
http://acorn.nationalinterest.in/2009/12/15/on-legalising-prostitution/

choudharyneelam
January 8th, 2010, 12:26 PM
Bigamy is illegal as per our constiution. Its lack of awarness that any woman is allowing her husband to do that. Anybody can drag them to court and settle it once for all.


So true n workable but hota kya hai.....old relationship becomes dull n the new one takes place......Batuknath ne kar dikhaya.....many more are there who are not focussed by media on television.

But one thing I wanna ask u all, laws to bahaut bane hain for women but kitno ko hathiyar bana paa rahi hain mahilaayen.....like I recently read somewhere, if a female is seduced by a man n she by mistake becomes the victim of that then she too can sue the guy who seduced her. Kaun si ladki khul ke saamne aati hai? Poor girl. Laws to bana diye but samaj itna ganda hai ki unn laws ka istemaal karein usse pahle bechari ladki ko galat thehra dete hain. And once a girl lost her virginity she has no option to get marry with other either by disclosing(at her own risk) or by hiding so as to be safe in this bad world protected by the arms of her husband. If husband is gud then her life is ok otherwise she is lost somewhere.

What the govt. was able to do for such girls apart from providing a law? Did it really worked? Why not a man learn to respect virginity? Why not a girl is supported if she commits a mistake? Why not the man admit his mistake? Why it is given the name of mutual of consent? Seducing any innocent lady is a very big crime. Why not it is understood in the right direction n action taken against? Why not?

Can anybody tell me what to do for those ladies who die every moment as she is being insulted/neglected or even when she is asked to put signature on divorce papers when her spouse get to know about her innocent mistake. Though its not completely the fault of guy but she also took part in it but why people forget that she was first seduced by the man of which she was not aware how she is landing into this darkness.

If one does not know about this law then pls make the search on your own. I read it somewhere in some link but now I don't have the same. Sorry for that, otherwise u need not do this lil effort (for those who r making search).

sanjaymalik
January 8th, 2010, 02:53 PM
living conditions ek living conditions guru

Sati pratha bhot purani thi wa kyoo band karwayi bhai usney bhi nayar kannon bana ki specific area me lagoo karo, Social recog. dyo, alag shamshan ghat banao sati hon thai. Same for Baal Vivah.

Bhai problem Sex workers ki condition na se Prostitution se er usko khatam karney ki bajay usko legal karna te bimaari badana se.

Bhai Raj every acts implemented have good as well as bad effects. But i think in case of legalising prosetitution bad effects may be low as campared to good. At least it will create some checks over the trafficing of destituted girls at the age of 10 or 12. and those who visiting to these area are visiting and will also visit whether it will legalized or not but least the condition and earning of those poor womens will increased in decrease income of pimps and police They will be able to get proper recognition.

sanjaymalik
January 8th, 2010, 03:24 PM
So true n workable but hota kya hai.....old relationship becomes dull n the new one takes place......Batuknath ne kar dikhaya.....many more are there who are not focussed by media on television.

But one thing I wanna ask u all, laws to bahaut bane hain for women but kitno ko hathiyar bana paa rahi hain mahilaayen..
Mahilaon ne Dowery Harassment, Section 498A,406, ko pura hathiyar bana rakha, other one Domestic voilence Act ko bana rakha hai, some time number of fake cases.60%.
.like I recently read somewhere, if a female is seduced by a man n she by mistake becomes the victim of that then she too can sue the guy who seduced her.
i don't know whether you are talking about seduction by word or promise or /seduction by intoxication or adminstration of any stupefying or unwholesome substance, she is unable to understand the nature and consequences. if it is seduction by words i.e ist then she is enough able to understand the nature of act she is doing and if in case of 2nd suduction by some substance then setion 376 clause Fifth is there.
Kaun si ladki khul ke saamne aati hai? Poor girl. Laws to bana diye but samaj itna ganda hai ki unn laws ka istemaal karein usse pahle bechari ladki ko galat thehra dete hain. And once a girl lost her virginity she has no option to get marry with other either by disclosing(at her own risk) or by hiding so as to be safe in this bad world protected by the arms of her husband. If husband is gud then her life is ok otherwise she is lost somewhere.

What the govt. was able to do for such girls apart from providing a law? Did it really worked? Why not a man learn to respect virginity? Why not a girl is supported if she commits a mistake? Why not the man admit his mistake? Why it is given the name of mutual of consent? Seducing any innocent lady is a very big crime. Why not it is understood in the right direction n action taken against? Why not?

Can anybody tell me what to do for those ladies who die every moment as she is being insulted/neglected or even when she is asked to put signature on divorce papers when her spouse get to know about her innocent mistake. Though its not completely the fault of guy but she also took part in it but why people forget that she was first seduced by the man of which she was not aware how she is landing into this darkness.

If one does not know about this law then pls make the search on your own. I read it somewhere in some link but now I don't have the same. Sorry for that, otherwise u need not do this lil effort (for those who r making search).

This is patriarchical, male dominated society so break it.

choudharyneelam
January 8th, 2010, 03:57 PM
This is patriarchical, male dominated society so break it.

Hmmmm....thanks for mentioning abt the clause here

kapdal
January 8th, 2010, 03:59 PM
Some people always talk about Indian Culture. So what is Indian Culture should be taken into account. For this issue, what is the history of prostitution in India?

I remember readings that it was during chanakya, Mahatma budh times too. Was it legalised that time or undercover? Looking at ajanta, allora, khajuraho, puri temples it seems that Indian culture was too open than today in those times. And perhaps it was invasion by muslims that brings the difference that we see today.

Isnt that so?

Jitendra, it was not only legalised but state sponsored. Kautilya's Arthashashtra documents it. And do I need to remind that Kautilya was the chancellor of Chandragupta Maurya, who we try to appropriate as a Jat (probably with some merit, but it is a controversial thesis).

Below is an excerpt from a research paper on position of women in that period. And, let me clarify before anyone starts getting feisty, that this is specifically for culture vultures, of "hamaari sanskriti aur sabhyata" types. It is NOT my belief that just because something happened in the past or was part of our culture, then it should continue to remain so with/without merit.

Link:
http://www.asiaticsociety.org.bd/journals/June_2009/contents/Protiti%20shirin.htm

Excerpts:
Prostitution was a state-endorsed activity, and it generated revenues for the state. The prostitute, usually the madam or the head of a brothel and her deputy were given lump sums by the state to establish brothels and to buy jewellery, furniture, etc.
Nonetheless, like the dependent prostitute, the independent one also paid one-sixth of her income as tax to the state. [22] (http://www.asiaticsociety.org.bd/journals/June_2009/contents/Protiti%20shirin.htm#_ftn23)In times of financial trouble for the state, she had to pay extra revenue to the state and the independent ones were obliged to pay half of their income as tax. [23] (http://www.asiaticsociety.org.bd/journals/June_2009/contents/Protiti%20shirin.htm#_ftn24)It was clear that the prostitute’s income was a stable source of state revenue and to generate it, the state encouraged prostitution by direct methods. The courtesan had to possess a wide range of accomplishments ranging from speaking as is evident in the Ramayana [24] (http://www.asiaticsociety.org.bd/journals/June_2009/contents/Protiti%20shirin.htm#_ftn25)to painting to love-making. (http://www.asiaticsociety.org.bd/journals/June_2009/contents/Protiti%20shirin.htm#_ftn26)
To avoid her total exploitation, the Arthashastra granted the prostitute some legal projection. For example, the rape of a prostitute was regarded as a crime.
However, even the common prostitute was granted certain legal rights which would protect her. She was protected from cheating, robbery, abduction, confinement or disfigurement. Moreover, there was special legal care to protect the virginity of a prostitute’s daughter. A man had to pay a fine that was sixteen times higher than the fee of a visit to a prostitute if he deflowered her daughter by choice or by force

yudhvirmor
January 8th, 2010, 04:01 PM
So true n workable but hota kya hai.....old relationship becomes dull n the new one takes place......Batuknath ne kar dikhaya.....many more are there who are not focussed by media on television.

But one thing I wanna ask u all, laws to bahaut bane hain for women but kitno ko hathiyar bana paa rahi hain mahilaayen.....like I recently read somewhere, if a female is seduced by a man n she by mistake becomes the victim of that then she too can sue the guy who seduced her. Kaun si ladki khul ke saamne aati hai? Poor girl. Laws to bana diye but samaj itna ganda hai ki unn laws ka istemaal karein usse pahle bechari ladki ko galat thehra dete hain. And once a girl lost her virginity she has no option to get marry with other either by disclosing(at her own risk) or by hiding so as to be safe in this bad world protected by the arms of her husband. If husband is gud then her life is ok otherwise she is lost somewhere.

What the govt. was able to do for such girls apart from providing a law? Did it really worked? Why not a man learn to respect virginity? Why not a girl is supported if she commits a mistake? Why not the man admit his mistake? Why it is given the name of mutual of consent? Seducing any innocent lady is a very big crime. Why not it is understood in the right direction n action taken against? Why not?

Can anybody tell me what to do for those ladies who die every moment as she is being insulted/neglected or even when she is asked to put signature on divorce papers when her spouse get to know about her innocent mistake. Though its not completely the fault of guy but she also took part in it but why people forget that she was first seduced by the man of which she was not aware how she is landing into this darkness.

If one does not know about this law then pls make the search on your own. I read it somewhere in some link but now I don't have the same. Sorry for that, otherwise u need not do this lil effort (for those who r making search).
I think you are mixing the constitution and social practices. We were discussing if we legalized it or not..
I read it somewhere.. Pain is inevitable and suffering is optional.. So most women opted for suffering...

Lets not distract from the topic, We can't mock around to bring it to every town. We need to address the suffering of those innocent girls, women and their kids. By Legalizing it, It may give them legal shield so that nobody can exploit or harass them.

kapdal
January 8th, 2010, 04:26 PM
like I recently read somewhere, if a female is seduced by a man n she by mistake becomes the victim of that then she too can sue the guy who seduced her.

What the govt. was able to do for such girls apart from providing a law? Did it really worked? Why not a man learn to respect virginity? Why not a girl is supported if she commits a mistake? Why not the man admit his mistake? Why it is given the name of mutual of consent? Seducing any innocent lady is a very big crime. Why not it is understood in the right direction n action taken against? Why not?


Errr...are you serious? Is this really a law? I'd be shocked if it is, unless you meant the circumstances where the girl was a minor or some hanky panky was involved (like a drug, use of force,etc.). If there is mutual consent, then who seduces whom is immaterial. I would rather not get into details given how touchy people get. But here is an analogy. If someone snatches your purse, then it is wrong and law should take care of it. But if you voluntarily give it to someone, why should law or anyone else for that matter, bother?

sanjaymalik
January 8th, 2010, 04:38 PM
Hmmmm....thanks for mentioning abt the clause here
u r talking about which seduction, had not read upper red part.

sanjaymalik
January 8th, 2010, 04:42 PM
I think you are mixing the constitution and social practices. We were discussing if we legalized it or not..
I read it somewhere.. Pain is inevitable and suffering is optional.. So most women opted for suffering...

Lets not distract from the topic, We can't mock around to bring it to every town. We need to address the suffering of those innocent girls, women and their kids. By Legalizing it, It may give them legal shield so that nobody can exploit or harass them.

Dear Mor,
Sorry to interrupt u everytime ur are talking about constitution, constitution does not define all these thing. their are specific legislations like IPC, The Hindu Marriage Act, etc etc which are regulating all these things.

choudharyneelam
January 8th, 2010, 04:45 PM
u r talking about which seduction, had not read upper red part.

m tlking abt that seduction thru which male have illegal sex with the female without any physical force n...............father can sue that male who seduced his daughter to have sex.

What i've read was something different as u told abt the law against seducing. So if there is any member from this broad area of law then pls share this knowledge with us so that we get to know what exactly the law says.

choudharyneelam
January 8th, 2010, 04:48 PM
an analogy. If someone snatches your purse, then it is wrong and law should take care of it. But if you voluntarily give it to someone, why should law or anyone else for that matter, bother?

True it is!

sanjaymalik
January 8th, 2010, 05:02 PM
m tlking abt that seduction thru which male have illegal sex with the female without any physical force n...............father can sue that male who seduced his daughter to have sex.

What i've read was something different as u told abt the law against seducing. So if there is any member from this broad area of law then pls share this knowledge with us so that we get to know what exactly the law says.

ohh you are talking about seduction by words or promises ,about which kapil has written with analogy. if someone is consenting party and enough mature to understand the nature of act then its not offence it concensual in the eye of law and law is always based on facts and circumstances not on emotions. You are talking about social /emotional aspect not the legal.

yes father can sue the male who seduced his daughter to have sex but if someone agaist whom the offence has been commited will not complaint and depose then what can law do for them.

choudharyneelam
January 8th, 2010, 05:03 PM
I think you are mixing the constitution and social practices.
Maybe so, but unable to explain the exact thing what I read as I forget abt the source n after few days when I want to tell people in relation to other thing then I cud not as the exact information is moved away, lost from my hands. Wud care abt it next time.

Till then, if anybody has the exact info. then pls share with us. Wud like to know it in detail.

choudharyneelam
January 8th, 2010, 05:09 PM
You are talking about social /emotional aspect not the legal.

yes father can sue the male who seduced his daughter to have sex but if someone agaist whom the offence has been commited will not complaint and depose then what can law do for them.

Yes, that's why I had talked about the society in my earlier post. Many fathers hesitate to take such step. Anyways, as Yudhvir pointed that topic is getting on another track so better to remain on the main discussion.

yudhvirmor
January 8th, 2010, 06:31 PM
Dear Mor,
Sorry to interrupt u everytime ur are talking about constitution, constitution does not define all these thing. their are specific legislations like IPC, The Hindu Marriage Act, etc etc which are regulating all these things.

But constitution does give framework for IPC. I am trying to say that everybody has right to earn their livings. In our constitution its not defined what are legal/illegal ways to do that. Our IPC and other legislation chapters define these things..

Majority of policy makers and other sensible people want it to be legalized and controlled. Constitution needs to give framework to define what is Illegal trafficking, Adultery, Prostitution, rape, Molestation etc..

Only problem is who'll be vocal to stand for them and make sure they get a fair deal and they become the part of mainstream society.

singhabhimanyu
January 8th, 2010, 07:51 PM
read various views on this thread. i am of the opinion tht legalising it wud only end up increasing the no. of prostitutes. even if legalised.. morally it'd still be looked down upon as a profession. im against the move.
unless thr's an urgent need for our country's unemployment rate to surpass in excellence.. :)

Recently a bench of Supreme court ..
What do you guys think how the legalisation of prostitutin will affect our society?

rajkphogat
January 8th, 2010, 08:03 PM
Shailendra ji,

I beg to differ slightly with the parallelism.

Like you said, Dharavi is a mindset. Its also a lifestyle that people find easy to maintain when given a choice between squalor and row houses, etc where they would pay for the amenities/facilities. They make a choice that suits them. Whereas prostitution starts as no-choice and ends with no-choices for majority of the women and children.

Regards

No Choice Anjoo ek majdoor 200 ki dhiyadi leke ghar jata hai shaam ko to wo kaam kya prostitution se ganda hai.

rajkphogat
January 8th, 2010, 08:09 PM
Bhai Raj every acts implemented have good as well as bad effects. But i think in case of legalising prosetitution bad effects may be low as campared to good. At least it will create some checks over the trafficing of destituted girls at the age of 10 or 12. and those who visiting to these area are visiting and will also visit whether it will legalized or not but least the condition and earning of those poor womens will increased in decrease income of pimps and police They will be able to get proper recognition.

Malik saab Trafficking kaise kam hogi i think reason u want to say is more young girls will get into this.

conditon tab tak nahi sudhar sakti jab tak wo is dhandey me hai.

rajkphogat
January 8th, 2010, 08:16 PM
Jitendra, it was not only legalised but state sponsored. Kautilya's Arthashashtra documents it. And do I need to remind that Kautilya was the chancellor of Chandragupta Maurya, who we try to appropriate as a Jat (probably with some merit, but it is a controversial thesis).

Below is an excerpt from a research paper on position of women in that period. And, let me clarify before anyone starts getting feisty, that this is specifically for culture vultures, of "hamaari sanskriti aur sabhyata" types. It is NOT my belief that just because something happened in the past or was part of our culture, then it should continue to remain so with/without merit.

Link:
http://www.asiaticsociety.org.bd/journals/June_2009/contents/Protiti%20shirin.htm

Excerpts:
Prostitution was a state-endorsed activity, and it generated revenues for the state. The prostitute, usually the madam or the head of a brothel and her deputy were given lump sums by the state to establish brothels and to buy jewellery, furniture, etc.
Nonetheless, like the dependent prostitute, the independent one also paid one-sixth of her income as tax to the state. [22] (http://www.asiaticsociety.org.bd/journals/June_2009/contents/Protiti%20shirin.htm#_ftn23)In times of financial trouble for the state, she had to pay extra revenue to the state and the independent ones were obliged to pay half of their income as tax. [23] (http://www.asiaticsociety.org.bd/journals/June_2009/contents/Protiti%20shirin.htm#_ftn24)It was clear that the prostitute’s income was a stable source of state revenue and to generate it, the state encouraged prostitution by direct methods. The courtesan had to possess a wide range of accomplishments ranging from speaking as is evident in the Ramayana [24] (http://www.asiaticsociety.org.bd/journals/June_2009/contents/Protiti%20shirin.htm#_ftn25)to painting to love-making.
To avoid her total exploitation, the Arthashastra granted the prostitute some legal projection. For example, the rape of a prostitute was regarded as a crime.
However, even the common prostitute was granted certain legal rights which would protect her. She was protected from cheating, robbery, abduction, confinement or disfigurement. Moreover, there was special legal care to protect the virginity of a prostitute’s daughter. A man had to pay a fine that was sixteen times higher than the fee of a visit to a prostitute if he deflowered her daughter by choice or by force

Bhai Dalal saab kisi-2 cheez padhe se bhai,

Er tu k kehna chawe se Govt isko support kare, fer te foreign currency bhi khoob aawe gi

Par nu bata fer isi govt. er pimps, middleman etc. me k fark rahgya.

rajkphogat
January 8th, 2010, 08:18 PM
This is patriarchical, male dominated society so break it.

Bhai Malik saab Section kyoo quote kare se koye case thode hi ladna se Dahej hatya ka?:rock:rock:rock

kapdal
January 8th, 2010, 08:49 PM
Bhai Dalal saab kisi-2 cheez padhe se bhai,

Er tu k kehna chawe se Govt isko support kare, fer te foreign currency bhi khoob aawe gi

Par nu bata fer isi govt. er pimps, middleman etc. me k fark rahgya.

Bhai Raj, baat nyun se ke aade sanskriti ka ghana rolla hon laag raha tha. To "inspired by you", manne nyun sochi ki maadi si "gyaan-prapti" ki jaaye apni "sanskriti aur sabhyata" ke baare mein-



Ek chij te se India dhorey Sankriti wa aur bigaad jagi,


Aur baaki thoda aade si bhi lakhaaiye-



And, let me clarify before anyone starts getting feisty, that this is specifically for culture vultures, of "hamaari sanskriti aur sabhyata" types. It is NOT my belief that just because something happened in the past or was part of our culture, then it should continue to remain so with/without merit.

rajkphogat
January 8th, 2010, 09:04 PM
Bhai Raj, baat nyun se ke aade sanskriti ka ghana rolla hon laag raha tha. To "inspired by you", manne nyun sochi ki maadi si "gyaan-prapti" ki jaaye apni "sanskriti aur sabhyata" ke baare mein-
Aur baaki thoda aade si bhi lakhaaiye-

Bhai Dalal jo bujji usney te batawe koni gyan prapt karan chala gya

er to ki bhi isa gyan laya se

Er bhai tanne e kahi se Jo sadiyon pehley chalta aaya jaroori nahi aagey bhi chaley.:rock:rock:rock

annch
January 8th, 2010, 11:29 PM
Shailendra,

Any Dharavi dweller who is ready to work harder for spending more in maintaining a better life style in a better housing facilities, will do so without any fear of discrimination or stigma of their once being in Dharavi. That would not be the case with a woman who might get a chance to get out or make her children move out of the vicious cycle of prostitution. She/ her family would always be discriminated against, and even more so in her rehabilitated respectable part of society.

Legalisation may not build inroads into status of this section of society. Reiterating from my earlier post, and similar thoughts of other members, legalisation would atleast ensure a better take home/ net salary for the hot job, with guaranteed health and other benefits. :)

Regards

Anju-ji (hey, what's with this whole 'ji' thingy??? :p)

...yeah, but don't you see that then "they" (in Dharavi) are ending up choosing something that is taking them back to the squalor? ...and the illegal, the unknown, and the repressed???... or maybe there is more to this that meets the simple eye (legalize/not-legalize) and is in fact a deadly, dirty nexus of the social underbelly that makes all the players in the mix, hooked (tied, chained) to some sort of evil cycle/circle?...

Prostitution too is likely the same "vicious circle" that legalization is not likely to make any inroads into 'sudhaaro-ing' the situation....
And also as to the 'starts as no-choice' thingy.... well, I don't really think the legalization is gonna help much those other folks that live constantly below the poverty line and/or sell their kids for maybe just a better one month of living (read: food).... It has been established for long now that the situation actually needs a bigger picture major change to really make a dent in the lives of these poor, "stuck" women...and their kids who may be aspiring for a better tomorrow.....

If one were to really take the same discussion about Prostitution and add the bigger gorilla in the room like.... health, aids, hygiene, epidemic, diseases, unawareness sort of issues....that I think would probably be the more relevant discussion and something that the concerned NGO's (n' these movies/docu-dramas) are anyways fighting for;..... something more relevant than worrying about givng them a 'legal' -Hey, I got a 'hot' job (no pun intended!) status per say....

annch
January 9th, 2010, 12:52 AM
Jiss din pataa chal jaata hai ki uss aurat kii pichli zindagi kya thi....toh samaj ke "izzatdaar", usse wahan rehne nahi denge jahan bhi woh 200 ki dhiyadi karti hogii yaa rehti hai......akhir sabko chinta hai kii uska kitna galat asar ho sakta hai unki "society" par.......aur, swad leniye line mein laag jaange.....


No Choice Anjoo ek majdoor 200 ki dhiyadi leke ghar jata hai shaam ko to wo kaam kya prostitution se ganda hai.

upendersingh
January 9th, 2010, 02:11 AM
Prostitution should not be legalized because;
-Legalization of prostitution is a gift to pimps, traffickers and the sex industry.
-Legalization of prostitution and the sex industry promotes sex trafficking.
-Legalization of prostitution does not control the sex industry.It expands it.
-Legalization of prostitution increases clandestine, hidden, illegal and street prostitution.
-Legalization of prostitution and decriminalization of the sex Industry increases child prostitution.
-Legalization of prostitution does not protect the women in prostitution.
-Legalization of prostitution increases the demand for prostitution. It boosts the motivation of men to buy women for sex in a much wider and more permissible range of socially acceptable settings.
-Legalization of prostitution does not promote women's health.
http://blogs.dispatch.co.za/dispatchnow/files/2009/05/prostitution.jpg

yudhvirmor
January 9th, 2010, 04:55 AM
Prostitution should not be legalized because;
-Legalization of prostitution is a gift to pimps, traffickers and the sex industry.
-Legalization of prostitution and the sex industry promotes sex trafficking.
-Legalization of prostitution does not control the sex industry.It expands it.
-Legalization of prostitution increases clandestine, hidden, illegal and street prostitution.
-Legalization of prostitution and decriminalization of the sex Industry increases child prostitution.
-Legalization of prostitution does not protect the women in prostitution.
-Legalization of prostitution increases the demand for prostitution. It boosts the motivation of men to buy women for sex in a much wider and more permissible range of socially acceptable settings.
-Legalization of prostitution does not promote women's health.
http://blogs.dispatch.co.za/dispatchnow/files/2009/05/prostitution.jpg


Bhai aap yeh baat bina Chitar ke bhi likh sakte thee.. Yeh Chitar ki kuch khas jarurat naa thee..

upendersingh
January 9th, 2010, 05:05 AM
Bhai aap yeh baat bina Chitar ke bhi likh sakte thee.. Yeh Chitar ki kuch khas jarurat naa thee..

Thoda-sa post ko attractive aur interesting banaane ke liye aisa kiya. Bhai kya karoo profession (Editor) hi aisa hai. Aadat pad rahi hai article type se likhne ki. Baaki photo koi vulgur thode hi hai.

poonam
January 9th, 2010, 05:09 AM
Thoda-sa post ko attractive aur interesting banaane ke liye aisa kiya..

Lekin kuchh attractive/interesting hua to nahin, sorry to say! Out of place si lagi aapki foto errrrr aapki chipkayi hui foto...

kapdal
January 9th, 2010, 05:36 AM
Thoda-sa post ko attractive aur interesting banaane ke liye aisa kiya. Bhai kya karoo profession (Editor) hi aisa hai. Aadat pad rahi hai article type se likhne ki. Baaki photo koi vulgur thode hi hai.

Bhai TOI mein to na hai editor? Faltoo ki post ke saath bhadakti hui photo lagane ka andaaz to waise hi laga. Baaki, photo ke saath yeh line bhi bahut "attractive aur interesting" thi- Legalisation of prostitution promotes illegal prostitution. Nice!

akshaymalik84
January 9th, 2010, 06:29 PM
Bhai Dalal saab kisi-2 cheez padhe se bhai,

Er tu k kehna chawe se Govt isko support kare, fer te foreign currency bhi khoob aawe gi

Par nu bata fer isi govt. er pimps, middleman etc. me k fark rahgya.


Malik saab Trafficking kaise kam hogi i think reason u want to say is more young girls will get into this.

conditon tab tak nahi sudhar sakti jab tak wo is dhandey me hai.

Legalisation is not about promoting Prostitution by any mean. Its about controlling it and taking women out of it who dont want to do it. Making their social and economical condition better. Legalisation does not mean that a prostitute will open its office in your neighbourhood and spoil Indian culture(which is touching its new lows everyday and night anyway). A cultured man always know that equality is ethical. As far as i understand culture is all about equal development of human being on all fronts regardless of cast and gender. But where is the equality when one expects one class of society to prosper while the other to distress.

Those girls who do it by choice will do it whether you legalise it or not. But legalisation can certainly help forced women. Yes, there could be some negetive effects of legalisation considering imbalance in our society and system. Per Mare piche e swarg dikhya kare.

singhabhimanyu
January 9th, 2010, 08:16 PM
हा हा हा भिघन ;);););););)

Lekin kuchh attractive/interesting hua to nahin, sorry to say! Out of place si lagi aapki foto errrrr aapki chipkayi hui foto...

Thoda-sa post ko attractive aur interesting banaane ke liye aisa kiya.

rajkphogat
January 9th, 2010, 08:48 PM
Jiss din pataa chal jaata hai ki uss aurat kii pichli zindagi kya thi....toh samaj ke "izzatdaar", usse wahan rehne nahi denge jahan bhi woh 200 ki dhiyadi karti hogii yaa rehti hai......akhir sabko chinta hai kii uska kitna galat asar ho sakta hai unki "society" par.......aur, swad leniye line mein laag jaange.....

Filmi batey hain Anjoo,

Aaj ki date aadmi ke apney liye time nahi hai to wo doosro k barey me kya aur kaise jaanega??

& here what u want 2 say that An sex worker is born to b n sex worker & she can't left this profession so she shuld not try.

Asli baat ye hai ki 8 ghantey sir pe topri dhon me hanga laggey and this giv easy money.

rajkphogat
January 9th, 2010, 08:53 PM
Legalisation is not about promoting Prostitution by any mean. Its about controlling it and taking women out of it who dont want to do it. Making their social and economical condition better. Legalisation does not mean that a prostitute will open its office in your neighbourhood and spoil Indian culture(which is touching its new lows everyday and night anyway). A cultured man always know that equality is ethical. As far as i understand culture is all about equal development of human being on all fronts regardless of cast and gender. But where is the equality when one expects one class of society to prosper while the other to distress.

Those girls who do it by choice will do it whether you legalise it or not. But legalisation can certainly help forced women. Yes, there could be some negetive effects of legalisation considering imbalance in our society and system. Per Mare piche e swarg dikhya kare.


Aki tell me a thing how legalisation help women to get out of this now dont tell me It will give recongnition to them "padh padh k thak chuka hoon" Istey nyara koye reason ho te samjhiye.

akshaymalik84
January 9th, 2010, 09:22 PM
Aki tell me a thing how legalisation help women to get out of this now dont tell me It will give recongnition to them "padh padh k thak chuka hoon" Istey nyara koye reason ho te samjhiye.

First understand the meaning of legalisation. It should be, to criminalizes the buying of sex and decriminalizes the selling of sex. There would be certain guidlines to discourage forced prostitution. And most of the women in this profession are forced one not volunteer.

annch
January 9th, 2010, 09:35 PM
Aaj kii date mein bhi kuch "aadmiyon" ke paas time hai doosro ke baare mein sochne ka.....aur phir apni jaankari ko auro mein phelane ka......
Whether it is easy money or not, that's for that woman to decide as she is the one "living" that life.

Please refer to my posts again to see what I have written.

Thanks

Filmi batey hain Anjoo,

Aaj ki date aadmi ke apney liye time nahi hai to wo doosro k barey me kya aur kaise jaanega??

& here what u want 2 say that An sex worker is born to b n sex worker & she can't left this profession so she shuld not try.

Asli baat ye hai ki 8 ghantey sir pe topri dhon me hanga laggey and this giv easy money.

upendersingh
January 9th, 2010, 11:04 PM
Bhai TOI mein to na hai editor? Faltoo ki post ke saath bhadakti hui photo lagane ka andaaz to waise hi laga. Baaki, photo ke saath yeh line bhi bahut "attractive aur interesting" thi- Legalisation of prostitution promotes illegal prostitution. Nice!

Na bhai Kapil, TOI mein na hoon. "Leaglization of prostitution promots illegal prostitution" ka matlab yo tha ki issmein 14-15 saal ki ladkiyon ko bhi dhakel diya jayega unhe jyada umar ki dikhakar aur gharo ke aas-paas, paarko vagarah mein bhi prostitutes clients set karti nazar aayengi jo filhaal nazar nahi aati hai. Prostitution ke legalization ka yo matlab naa hai ki innke liye kuchh kayde-kanoon rah hi nahi jayenge.

kapdal
January 10th, 2010, 12:05 AM
Na bhai Kapil, TOI mein na hoon. "Leaglization of prostitution promots illegal prostitution" ka matlab yo tha ki issmein 14-15 saal ki ladkiyon ko bhi dhakel diya jayega unhe jyada umar ki dikhakar aur gharo ke aas-paas, paarko vagarah mein bhi prostitutes clients set karti nazar aayengi jo filhaal nazar nahi aati hai. Prostitution ke legalization ka yo matlab naa hai ki innke liye kuchh kayde-kanoon rah hi nahi jayenge.

Don't talk from your imagination. Legalization doesn't mean that it becomes a free for all. Take the precedent of any law in any country on this subject. Part of making the law is to protect the minors that are forced into it. And to clearly restrict the areas of operations.

upendersingh
January 10th, 2010, 12:59 AM
Don't talk from your imagination. Legalization doesn't mean that it becomes a free for all. Take the precedent of any law in any country on this subject. Part of making the law is to protect the minors that are forced into it. And to clearly restrict the areas of operations.


Actually my 'imagination' has logics and only logics can prove it a false imagination. You are talking about the countries where you are in these days, but I am talking about the country I am in. Residential areas are not for selling liquors, but in Delhi it is common in each nook and corner. I couldn't get the link but in cricket world cup 2003 in South Africa, there were the herds of prostitutes around stadiums seeking for the clients. Such scenes don't give a good impression of any country. In India leaglization of prostitution will mean much more than the law book.
And you just picked up a single word there 'illegal' from my earlier post, but why didn't you pick up these points;
-Legalization of prostitution doesn't control the sex industry. It expands it.
-Legaliztion of prostitution increases the demand for prostitution. It boosts the motivation of men to buy women for sex in a much wider and more permissible range of socially acceptable settings.
What answers do you have for these points?

Your answers will just be logicless, because you just want to see India follow the western mode of life. Nothing else.

vijay123
January 10th, 2010, 01:46 AM
You yourself are countering your arguments. What you are saying is that even now when it is banned the solicitation happens. Legalization does not meant that it will be allowed in open places like Parks etc. That would still be illegal as it is now.
Do you think there are no prostitutes in India. Here are the nos and I quote

"In 2007, the Ministry of Women and Child Development (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministry_of_Women_and_Child_Development) reported presence of 2.8 million sex workers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_worker) in India, with 35.47 percent of them entering the trade before the age of 18 years [1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_India#cite_note-0)[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_India#cite_note-1). The number of prostitutes has also doubled in the recent decade [3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_India#cite_note-2)."

This is from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_India.

And you think 2.8 million is a small no?? It is more than the population of several countries on this planet. Also 35% of these are under 18.

If legalized, then atlease govt can regulate it better. NGO's can be more helpful, there could be better education for their kids, their health etc. That;s what SC is trying to convey - Either you control it or legalize it. If there are more than a million under age gals in this then that does mean something - It is going on with the help of Police, Mafia nexus.

I dont think SC is happy in recommending legalization but that seems to be out of the frustration in law machinery.

I dont think your thinking that it is going to create a demand for prostitution. Sex is already available everywhere. It is there in terms of ads for massages, in red light areas, in escort services etc. Anyone who need it just have to spend 5-10 mins looking for it whether in news papers or on Internet. Those who are not that tech savvy or paper readers can go to red light areas like GB road in Delhi.


Actually my 'imagination' has logics and only logics can prove it a false imagination. You are talking about the countries where you are in these days, but I am talking about the country I am in. Residential areas are not for selling liquors, but in Delhi it is common in each nook and corner. I couldn't get the link but in cricket world cup 2003 in South Africa, there were the herds of prostitutes around stadiums seeking for the clients. Such scenes don't give a good impression of any country. In India leaglization of prostitution will mean much more than the law book.
And you just picked up a single word there 'illegal' from my earlier post, but why didn't you pick up these points;
-Legalization of prostitution doesn't control the sex industry. It expands it.
-Legaliztion of prostitution increases the demand for prostitution. It boosts the motivation of men to buy women for sex in a much wider and more permissible range of socially acceptable settings.
What answers do you have for these points?

Your answers will just be logicless, because you just want to see India follow the western mode of life. Nothing else.

upendersingh
January 10th, 2010, 02:09 AM
It is illegal then so much prostitutes are in India. If it is legalized, then it can be only imagined what will happen.
Some years back when lottery was allowed in Delhi there are lot of lottery buffs in Delhi, losing their hard earned money on mostly occasions, but when it is banned now there can hardly be found any lottery players.
Government should take some very stern steps to control prostitution. Discourage it, don't encourage.

And my friend some people still hesitate to go to the prostitutes because there may be a danger of police, even on GB road too. If some of your friends has experience of there he will tell you that there is always a fear of police raid, as I have heard.

rajkphogat
January 10th, 2010, 08:46 AM
Aaj kii date mein bhi kuch "aadmiyon" ke paas time hai doosro ke baare mein sochne ka.....aur phir apni jaankari ko auro mein phelane ka......
Whether it is easy money or not, that's for that woman to decide as she is the one "living" that life.

Please refer to my posts again to see what I have written.

Thanks

Sorry Mere pass itna time nahi hai

Agreed on this

Your Most Welcome Madam

rajkphogat
January 10th, 2010, 08:51 AM
First understand the meaning of legalisation. It should be, to criminalizes the buying of sex and decriminalizes the selling of sex. There would be certain guidlines to discourage forced prostitution. And most of the women in this profession are forced one not volunteer.

Aki Bhai yo sweden na se

Like Indian culture can't b adopted by any other country same way this type of things don't work in India because of social difference between two countries.

Hum Purab Hai Wo paschim hain Dono ka mel na milta hai
Ugta hai jo suraj Purab se Paschim me jake Dhalta hai.

:rock:rock:rock

annch
January 10th, 2010, 08:52 AM
I am glad that you understood the point.
Thanks

...................................

rajkphogat
January 10th, 2010, 09:11 AM
Some of my freinds are of opinion that :

Legalisation will give recognition to sex workers

What Recognisition means here : 1. They will b stamped as an prostitutes, seperate areas for them where no good person wants to go, like heep of dump outside the city, Same is already there but how will it help them ????

No underage girl will push into this.

This is an debatable issue No one can say this for sure. how can we say after legalisation nexus between Mafia pimps etc. and Police will break ????????

Sex workers will get more money & saved from harrasment from police.

In today's date every business hav to pay bribe to govt babus & Police, If u are in Producton u hav to pay bribe to excise deptt to get ur material out of factory, if in sales you hav to bribe sales tax tax deptt to file ur return, & aall hav to pay bribe to PF, ESI deptt to take their blesses, Even rikshaw walas, poor road vendors(rehdi waley) in markets hav to bribe policemens. In that scenario of legal buiseness how can we say prostitutes will b saved from Harrasmnt from police????????

Surely they get more money as they will include taxes paid to govt., in charges for their services.

vijay123
January 10th, 2010, 09:12 AM
The need is to view it in different light. The thing is that those who are already in the profession can have better lives with legalization. The escort girls or the high end call gals are anyway not getting impacted by this. It is for the upliftment of those who are in poor conditions in the red light areas.

If you take the example of Lottery then I remember it still being legal in several states and I dont think there is such a hue and cry on that. Going by this logic even liquor should be banned. Ban is not an answer to everything. The prostitution problem is everywhere in the world and there are only a few countries which have this legalized. Take for instance USA, there it is illegal but still they are available easily as in our country. The difference being that they are all kind of call girls / escorts and not exploited by police /mafia. They thrive because law agencies dont that resources to go after them. They spend them in other crimes that people are concerned most. Same is the case in our country. You think policing can eradicate them? No, police dont have even time to solve more serious crimes like theft, how can they take the load of these immoral activity cases? On the other hand they collect big money from these brothel owners and pimps which is easier then raiding them and collecting the evidence / witnesses.


It is illegal then so much prostitutes are in India. If it is legalized, then it can be only imagined what will happen.
Some years back when lottery was allowed in Delhi there are lot of lottery buffs in Delhi, losing their hard earned money on mostly occasions, but when it is banned now there can hardly be found any lottery players.
Government should take some very stern steps to control prostitution. Discourage it, don't encourage.

And my friend some people still hesitate to go to the prostitutes because there may be a danger of police, even on GB road too. If some of your friends has experience of there he will tell you that there is always a fear of police raid, as I have heard.

rajkphogat
January 10th, 2010, 09:13 AM
I am glad that you understood the point.
Thanks

Nahi-2 point samaj me nahi aaya anjoo wo to aise hi likh diya tha

Your most welcome Madam

anjoo No.- 96 padh

rajkphogat
January 10th, 2010, 09:18 AM
The need is to view it in different light. The thing is that those who are already in the profession can have better lives with legalization. The escort girls or the high end call gals are anyway not getting impacted by this. It is for the upliftment of those who are in poor conditions in the red light areas.

If you take the example of Lottery then I remember it still being legal in several states and I dont think there is such a hue and cry on that. Going by this logic even liquor should be banned. Ban is not an answer to everything. The prostitution problem is everywhere in the world and there are only a few countries which have this legalized. Take for instance USA, there it is illegal but still they are available easily as in our country. The difference being that they are all kind of call girls / escorts and not exploited by police /mafia. They thrive because law agencies dont that resources to go after them. They spend them in other crimes that people are concerned most. Same is the case in our country. You think policing can eradicate them? No, police dont have even time to solve more serious crimes like theft, how can they take the load of these immoral activity cases? On the other hand they collect big money from these brothel owners and pimps which is easier then raiding them and collecting the evidence / witnesses.

Fer te chori chakari bhi legal kar deni chahiye police ka kaam aur kam hojaga

Bhai yo amrica na se tham kyoo hod karo so

Matlab we reh us dhandey me bus unhe thoda aaram mil jaye.

jakharanil
January 10th, 2010, 09:21 AM
Prostitution Legalised krne ke essa kya rhe ga jo ilegal bachega... some says ki mugal saasan me ye legal tha....

but now time changing>>> our ethics n culture not allows it....
sab @ kuch ganda h par DHANDA h YEeeeeeee

rajesh00
January 10th, 2010, 12:11 PM
Pehle population control karao.Iss des me kuch na ho sakta.sab kim aisse hi chalega unplanned and uncontrolled.Yaha insaniyat ko gali di jati hei har roj aur politicians and executive khud is khilwad ka hissa hein.sabse badde gaier jimmedar to ye hein.Unmanagable nation hei ye des.Yaha aurat ko aisse hi badtamiji jhelni padegi.She has hardly any choice.She has to face dirty situation every where,be it home,roads,market place or office.there are pimps and idiots every where.Gandagi ke dher hein yaha.

rajkphogat
January 10th, 2010, 03:15 PM
Pehle population control karao.Iss des me kuch na ho sakta.sab kim aisse hi chalega unplanned and uncontrolled.Yaha insaniyat ko gali di jati hei har roj aur politicians and executive khud is khilwad ka hissa hein.sabse badde gaier jimmedar to ye hein.Unmanagable nation hei ye des.Yaha aurat ko aisse hi badtamiji jhelni padegi.She has hardly any choice.She has to face dirty situation every where,be it home,roads,market place or office.there are pimps and idiots every where.Gandagi ke dher hein yaha.

Hahahahah............

Tu kit ka se Amrica ka. Er amrica me k cime against womens na hota???????

Feel proud to b n Indian. Er ab to bhut kuch ho raha hai, RTI hai, RTE, 33% reservation for ladies , 50 % in Muncipality, marrige assistance to girls of poor families etc. etc.. Bus jaroorat hai in cheezo ko use karney walo ki nahi to ye kagaz par hi reh jayengey.

jagmohan
January 10th, 2010, 04:23 PM
Dear All,

Laws and regulations are effective in societies that have a just system in upholding and implementing these for maintenance of law and order in letter and spirit. The need and presence of prostitutes in all societies from times immemorial can’t be negated or even questioned. I don’t know in how many countries prostitution is legalised. I just read somewhere that South Africa is trying to legalise prostitution before the soccer world cup, a direct reference to economic factor.

All those who study sociology argue that having prostitutes in society is a necessity. It has been an argument that if there were no prostitutes in society, then men would even rape their own sisters. I don’t know how far it is true but there are enough deprived souls in society, of all classes and economic dispensations, who need to discharge their frustrations in a brothel.

I don’t think that by legalising it in India we would see a lowering of crime rate against women or a girl child. No brothel can start; leave alone thrive, without the tacit sanction of law enforcing agencies. In fact in cities like Mumbai it is said that more than half the Beer Bars are owned by policemen or their relatives. We all know how the corrupt system thrives in our country.

However, if we were to somehow become law abiding citizens overnight, then legalising it may benefit those who may take it up as a profession. Probably only then, even we can have those cubicles along the road where prostitutes display themselves, as they do in Amsterdam (I haven’t been there but many of my NRI friends tell me). Imagine such legal displays in Gohana, Kharkhoda, Jhajjar, Sunpat and Rohtak.

Best regards,

JS Malik

akshaymalik84
January 10th, 2010, 05:15 PM
Is legalisation of prostitution is a corollary of Women enpowerment?

Some of us thinks.....womens are made only to be wives or prostitutes. You can't and shouldn't do anything to help them. Better leave them on their own.

To hell with that culture and society where a wife is forced to have sex without her will but it is not fine with society that a women earnig her living(legally) by staking her reputation on line.

Someone talked about daily wages, Rs 200 dhiyadi or something.....i would like to ask, if someone pays you more money than your daily wages, would you indulge in sex with any women or men? Kyun easy money hai....why not???(Sadak pe pada hua 100 ka note bhi to apna hi hota hai)........would you do it?......Nah....you have knoweledge/experiance/parents......almost everything to blow you out of this kind of situations........but what if these benefits doesn't exist for you?....."Jinda rahne insaan ka pahla Haq hai"....padha tha kahin baaki pata nahi how many of us are not afraid to die?

One more thing, if women/men are willing to have sex with more than one man/woman....then its ok...ITs not prostitution. Right? But it is called prostitution when one's living depends on it. Strange?.....oh, yes men are exception, they Run this world. Prostitution was a promotion of men in old times, so we got no one to blame.

yudhvirmor
January 11th, 2010, 01:23 AM
Dear All,

Laws and regulations are effective in societies that have a just system in upholding and implementing these for maintenance of law and order in letter and spirit. The need and presence of prostitutes in all societies from times immemorial can’t be negated or even questioned. I don’t know in how many countries prostitution is legalised. I just read somewhere that South Africa is trying to legalise prostitution before the soccer world cup, a direct reference to economic factor.

All those who study sociology argue that having prostitutes in society is a necessity. It has been an argument that if there were no prostitutes in society, then men would even rape their own sisters. I don’t know how far it is true but there are enough deprived souls in society, of all classes and economic dispensations, who need to discharge their frustrations in a brothel.

I don’t think that by legalising it in India we would see a lowering of crime rate against women or a girl child. No brothel can start; leave alone thrive, without the tacit sanction of law enforcing agencies. In fact in cities like Mumbai it is said that more than half the Beer Bars are owned by policemen or their relatives. We all know how the corrupt system thrives in our country.

However, if we were to somehow become law abiding citizens overnight, then legalising it may benefit those who may take it up as a profession. Probably only then, even we can have those cubicles along the road where prostitutes display themselves, as they do in Amsterdam (I haven’t been there but many of my NRI friends tell me). Imagine such legal displays in Gohana, Kharkhoda, Jhajjar, Sunpat and Rohtak.

Best regards,

JS Malik

I can imagine the reaction in Gohana...As we said earlier, Legalization doesn't mean that Govt'll provide subsidy to setup brothels at tehsil level. We all need to make sure that no woman will be forced in prostitution and whoever are already in this gutter (Approx 3.4 million) shouldn't suffer exploitation and abuse from police and pimps..

rajesh00
January 11th, 2010, 08:24 AM
Ar tu rajji ho gya proud indian hoke.laggu kun kreigga bhai in cheza ne.Lathh tha le hadde na hota kuch samjhya.Amrica me aurat ki ya duragti konya hoti bhole ram.





Hahahahah............

Tu kit ka se Amrica ka. Er amrica me k cime against womens na hota???????

Feel proud to b n Indian. Er ab to bhut kuch ho raha hai, RTI hai, RTE, 33% reservation for ladies , 50 % in Muncipality, marrige assistance to girls of poor families etc. etc.. Bus jaroorat hai in cheezo ko use karney walo ki nahi to ye kagaz par hi reh jayengey.

sanjaymalik
January 11th, 2010, 09:37 AM
Is legalisation of prostitution is a corollary of Women enpowerment?

Some of us thinks.....womens are made only to be wives or prostitutes. You can't and shouldn't do anything to help them. Better leave them on their own.

To hell with that culture and society where a wife is forced to have sex without her will but it is not fine with society that a women earnig her living(legally) by staking her reputation on line.

Someone talked about daily wages, Rs 200 dhiyadi or something.....i would like to ask, if someone pays you more money than your daily wages, would you indulge in sex with any women or men? Kyun easy money hai....why not???(Sadak pe pada hua 100 ka note bhi to apna hi hota hai)........would you do it?......Nah....you have knoweledge/experiance/parents......almost everything to blow you out of this kind of situations........but what if these benefits doesn't exist for you?....."Jinda rahne insaan ka pahla Haq hai"....padha tha kahin baaki pata nahi how many of us are not afraid to die?

One more thing, if women/men are willing to have sex with more than one man/woman....then its ok...ITs not prostitution. Right? But it is called prostitution when one's living depends on it. Strange?.....oh, yes men are exception, they Run this world. Prostitution was a promotion of men in old times, so we got no one to blame.

Well ,concur with u.

ranvijay
January 11th, 2010, 06:38 PM
Fer te chori chakari bhi legal kar deni chahiye police ka kaam aur kam hojaga

Bhai yo amrica na se tham kyoo hod karo so

Matlab we reh us dhandey me bus unhe thoda aaram mil jaye.


Phogat ji, tam computer kyo use karo ho, ye Indian culture me mentioned konii hai. AC kad chalaaye the Indian raajao ne? Car, scooter, bijli, machine – sab kuch samay ke saath insaan ke saath jud gaye tab kisi ne nahi kaha (aapne bhi nahi) ki yo amrica na se?

Aap har naye parivartan ko amrica se kyo jodte ho –amrica se ham kati bhi impressed nahi hai aap biraan mat na ho.

ranvijay
January 11th, 2010, 07:06 PM
Some of my freinds are of opinion that :

Legalisation will give recognition to sex workers

What Recognisition means here : 1. They will b stamped as an prostitutes, seperate areas for them where no good person wants to go, like heep of dump outside the city, Same is already there but how will it help them ????

No underage girl will push into this.

This is an debatable issue No one can say this for sure. how can we say after legalisation nexus between Mafia pimps etc. and Police will break ????????

Sex workers will get more money & saved from harrasment from police.

In today's date every business hav to pay bribe to govt babus & Police, If u are in Producton u hav to pay bribe to excise deptt to get ur material out of factory, if in sales you hav to bribe sales tax tax deptt to file ur return, & aall hav to pay bribe to PF, ESI deptt to take their blesses, Even rikshaw walas, poor road vendors(rehdi waley) in markets hav to bribe policemens. In that scenario of legal buiseness how can we say prostitutes will b saved from Harrasmnt from police????????

Surely they get more money as they will include taxes paid to govt., in charges for their services.

No it will not give legalization to them in the form u mentioned, rather they will get legalization in the form that they will not be treated like animals as is done nowadays, they also are human beings and could not be exploited to any extent just because someone has paid to use them. Rape of prostitute – sounds strange but a rape is a rape –a sex worker should have a right to make a choice to what extent to go and when.

Their children will not be automatically dumped into this market and will be given facilities to study and work if they desire.

Not any policemen can come any time and charge them for illegally being involved in these things. Can u deny that such things exist? And if they exist then why should sex workers only bear the burnt of being downgraded citizens? No one discusses abt the person who goes there, but everyone has an eye filled with hatred towards a prostitute. So, why should she be a looser from all aspects? If she is doing something not good, then atleast let her do at her own terms.

And policemen will blackmail someone who is legally doing his job or the one who is illegally doing? And if a policemen is illegally charging someone who is legally doing his job, then that person will have ways open to protest against him.

rajkphogat
January 11th, 2010, 07:28 PM
Bhai Ek thread tha OBC reservation wala Usme kuch mere dost Jaaton ke liye reservation ka virodh kar rahe they kyonki jaat istey niche gir jaangey, Kameen ban jangey, Er is thread me we e balak Prostitution khatam karney ki bajay Prostitution Legal karan ki wakalat karen se.

To iska matlab k se Lugaaiyan k izaat na howti k ya Legal honey k baad ssex workers ki izaat me chaar chand laag jangey???????????

Standard dubley kyoo thodey Mottey kar Bhai..........

sidchhikara
January 11th, 2010, 07:32 PM
Is mein koi bharat sanskriti ki baat naa se.
Prostitution is part of Indian culture ... devdasi etc.
Which culture are you talking about?
These things were part of ancient Indian culture.

This is Indian culture today:
Hypocrisy
Useless religious rituals by fat housewives
child worship
Watching serials on Star/Sony/Zee
Corruption and pride associated with being corrupt .. maa/baap/rishtedaar chhati thook ke kahe sein mahara chhora upar ki kamai kare sei.
Phooti tooti sadken ... gandagi/jaanwar sab jageh ... no bijli paani.
Sexually frustrated young people doing it in the back of the car ... chori chupke ... Police kaa perverted Ramphal always trying to find such couples instead of doing actual police work.
What else ... oh yeah ... false ethnic/religious pride ... mein Jaat hoon, Yadav, gujjar, Sardar, Tamil etc.
Slavery waala attitude
Oh haan ... mobile phone worship ... aur us pe ulte seedhe SMS / callertune set karna.


All the above thing make prostitution look like a noble deed - something .bhisham pitahmeh
would do.

Oh ... and by the way...
My friends/members on this website including me don't indulge in any of the above activities. :):)

akshaymalik84
January 11th, 2010, 08:57 PM
Bhai Ek thread tha OBC reservation wala Usme kuch mere dost Jaaton ke liye reservation ka virodh kar rahe they kyonki jaat istey niche gir jaangey, Kameen ban jangey, Er is thread me we e balak Prostitution khatam karney ki bajay Prostitution Legal karan ki wakalat karen se.

To iska matlab k se Lugaaiyan k izaat na howti k ya Legal honey k baad ssex workers ki izaat me chaar chand laag jangey???????????

Standard dubley kyoo thodey Mottey kar Bhai..........

This is your double standard. You are asking reservation for betterment of jat society but hesitant in accepting the profession of these women. You dont want their betterment. Most of those who supported legalisation never said that Jats will be downgraded(KAMEEN etc.) after getting reservation. They only argued that Jats would not be able to achieve and develop the skills which they normally can do and are doing without reservation.

Prostitute or KAMEEN are not written on any women' or men' face. Who knows you might have had lunch or dinner with a Kameen or may be with a prostitute unintentionally.

karan
January 11th, 2010, 09:13 PM
Best Answer to this discussion IMHO is the song by Gurudutt in movie Pyasa

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34dkJu3LOv8

vijay123
January 11th, 2010, 09:19 PM
Bilkul sahi kah diya bhai ne... ar ya baat to tab hai jab hamare yahan officially 2.6 million or unofficial census ke according 15 million pros already hai. Uskey baad bhi sanskriti ka dhindora peet-te reh. Duniya ab itni choti ho chuki hai ki sari sanskriti aapas mei mil gayee hai. Different countries key urban areas mei koi jyada differences nahi reh gaye hai, differences bas attitude mei hai. Desh mei ek road accident victim hospital tak jaane jaane mei mar jaa hai, Amerika mei emergency reponse wale 5-7 min mei aakar usse jinda rakhne ko pura zor laga de. Baki khaana peena bhi ab to wohi ho gaya. Burger, Pizza, Cola, Fries.... or chains bhi wohi hai - McD, Pizza hut, KFC, Domino's etc etc.


Is mein koi bharat sanskriti ki baat naa se.
Prostitution is part of Indian culture ... devdasi etc.
Which culture are you talking about?
These things were part of ancient Indian culture.

This is Indian culture today:
Hypocrisy
Useless religious rituals by fat housewives
child worship
Watching serials on Star/Sony/Zee
Corruption and pride associated with being corrupt .. maa/baap/rishtedaar chhati thook ke kahe sein mahara chhora upar ki kamai kare sei.
Phooti tooti sadken ... gandagi/jaanwar sab jageh ... no bijli paani.
Sexually frustrated young people doing it in the back of the car ... chori chupke ... Police kaa perverted Ramphal always trying to find such couples instead of doing actual police work.
What else ... oh yeah ... false ethnic/religious pride ... mein Jaat hoon, Yadav, gujjar, Sardar, Tamil etc.
Slavery waala attitude
Oh haan ... mobile phone worship ... aur us pe ulte seedhe SMS / callertune set karna.


All the above thing make prostitution look like a noble deed - something .bhisham pitahmeh
would do.

Oh ... and by the way...
My friends/members on this website including me don't indulge in any of the above activities. :):)

chhillarneha
January 11th, 2010, 10:53 PM
it should definitely be legalised..!!
AIDS would be prevented...
it would give those sex workers some respect in the society...and a source of earning as well...!!
'legalise' doesnot mean 'sex trade'..it would stop any kind of exploitation of the sex workers..

rajkphogat
January 12th, 2010, 10:09 AM
This is your double standard. You are asking reservation for betterment of jat society but hesitant in accepting the profession of these women. You dont want their betterment. Most of those who supported legalisation never said that Jats will be downgraded(KAMEEN etc.) after getting reservation. They only argued that Jats would not be able to achieve and develop the skills which they normally can do and are doing without reservation.

Prostitute or KAMEEN are not written on any women' or men' face. Who knows you might have had lunch or dinner with a Kameen or may be with a prostitute unintentionally.

Mr. Malik

I hav not adopted dubble std.

Do you think If pros. get legalised then their lifes will get better, AIDS could be prevented as they will get full & unbreakable supply of condoms hahaha......,

their childrens will get better education aaj unhe school se kaun nikaal raha hai Primary education is free in govt schools,

They will b saved from police harrasment Achha how ????

They will get recognition- I didn't get meaning of this word Recognition I think all others will know that she is an prostitute so after recognition she will find clients nearby to her house............ but how it will help them

Monirs will be saved from this profession how?????? We hav child labour law I think then that would be applicable to them. Haah

Do you ever think that if someone married with childrens & in his/her neighbourhood an Prostitute is living & all his family members know about her proffession then what would any sensible person like to do?

Do you ever think by legalising it give an legal and easy way to young girls to make money, i am not denying tha it si not there in society but after that situation might b worse then present one.

Living conditions of an prostitute & their childrens can't get betetr untill they r in the same proffession.

Er wo 200 ki dhiyadi wala bhi mein e tha t bhai K galat keh di Aur waise bhi Prostituion to Pros hai Chahe wo Paise k liye kiya jaye ya naukri me promotion k liye...............

Eb tu apni sweden aali na gaan lagjaiyye, China ka Defence budget hamarey budget se more then 10 timmes jayada hai to hum bhi sara paise defence me laga dey Local factors bhe te matter kare se ek nahi kaka.

& If you think OBC reservation is for the betterment of Jat Society then why are u against it ? Think over it dear.

akshaymalik84
January 12th, 2010, 10:54 AM
Mr. Malik

I hav not adopted dubble std.

Do you think If pros. get legalised then their lifes will get better, AIDS could be prevented as they will get full & unbreakable supply of condoms hahaha......,

their childrens will get better education aaj unhe school se kaun nikaal raha hai Primary education is free in govt schools,

They will b saved from police harrasment Achha how ????

They will get recognition- I didn't get meaning of this word Recognition I think all others will know that she is an prostitute so after recognition she will find clients nearby to her house............ but how it will help them

Monirs will be saved from this profession how?????? We hav child labour law I think then that would be applicable to them. Haah

Do you ever think that if someone married with childrens & in his/her neighbourhood an Prostitute is living & all his family members know about her proffession then what would any sensible person like to do?

Do you ever think by legalising it give an legal and easy way to young girls to make money, i am not denying tha it si not there in society but after that situation might b worse then present one.

Living conditions of an prostitute & their childrens can't get betetr untill they r in the same proffession.

Er wo 200 ki dhiyadi wala bhi mein e tha t bhai K galat keh di Aur waise bhi Prostituion to Pros hai Chahe wo Paise k liye kiya jaye ya naukri me promotion k liye...............

Eb tu apni sweden aali na gaan lagjaiyye, China ka Defence budget hamarey budget se more then 10 timmes jayada hai to hum bhi sara paise defence me laga dey Local factors bhe te matter kare se ek nahi kaka.

& If you think OBC reservation is for the betterment of Jat Society then why are u against it ? Think over it dear.

You are asking same questions again and again right from the start and most of us responded to your queries.

पर आड़े ते वाहे बात हो रही से ...कीड़ी का घर कित्त सिक आगे पाछे नीम तले.....

rajkphogat
January 12th, 2010, 11:06 AM
You are asking same questions again and again right from the start and most of us responded to your queries.

पर आड़े ते वाहे बात हो रही से ...कीड़ी का घर कित्त सिक आगे पाछे नीम तले.....

Rey bhai madi motti buddhi se eein marey na samjya eb tai, TERE JITNA TEJ KONI MAIN

Tu kidi Aali dhaal hindi me samja de ek be, fer samajanga.

sanjaymalik
January 12th, 2010, 12:09 PM
Dear Raj please find my comments in red.

Mr. Malik

I hav not adopted dubble std.

Do you think If pros. get legalised then their lifes will get better, AIDS could be prevented as they will get full & unbreakable supply of condoms hahaha......,

Yes they will be saved from the deadly STD's like AIDS by providing proper information and proper supply of condoms and medicians. we are talking that some entactment with regulations and rules and proper guidelines may be implemented.

their childrens will get better education aaj unhe school se kaun nikaal raha hai Primary education is free in govt schools,
Their children can get better education how many of sex worker children are studing right now ,they are refrain form sending them to schools due to social stigma they bears.
They will b saved from police harrasment Achha how ????
No need to live in trumatic conditions and fearing conditions .they no need to pay monthly to police wala's for a profession which has been legally accepted. are you paying for your legally adopted professions. Mere khayal me wo jab we meet wala seen log bhaje hain raid pad gi raid pad gi na honge.

They will get recognition- I didn't get meaning of this word Recognition I think all others will know that she is an prostitute so after recognition she will find clients nearby to her house............ but how it will help them.

Recognition- living with dignity as an human being , like feeling of be part of society, right to profession etc. recognition dos't means to find claints in their nearby area's.

Monirs will be saved from this profession how?????? We hav child labour law I think then that would be applicable to them. Haah
Child labour laws are different from sex trafficing act , child labour law have nothing to do with those minors who used to bring this profession forcibly.

Do you ever think that if someone married with childrens & in his/her neighbourhood an Prostitute is living & all his family members know about her proffession then what would any sensible person like to do?
This is the total mind set of people
Do you ever think by legalising it give an legal and easy way to young girls to make money, i am not denying tha it si not there in society but after that situation might b worse then present one.
Those young girls whose has to make easy money they are making whether it be legalised or not. We are talking those who are woking in brothal.
Living conditions of an prostitute & their childrens can't get betetr untill they r in the same proffession.
We are not saying that they should be in same profession till last there may have some other training programs which provides them some sort of things to do . After some time when they will be able to do better from their earning they will have right to choose some decent work. There may be rules norms regarding all these things.
Er wo 200 ki dhiyadi wala bhi mein e tha t bhai K galat keh di Aur waise bhi Prostituion to Pros hai Chahe wo Paise k liye kiya jaye ya naukri me promotion k liye...............
.

But all things will happened only after proper enactment.

karan
January 12th, 2010, 09:34 PM
Bhai Raj Phogat
Prostituition is illegal in most of USA except Las Vegas and Rhode Island. Now Rhode Island has made it illegal. Better example is European Countries like Germany etc and SE Asian Countries like Thailand, Phillipines.
I have extremly limited knowledge about this profession or its impact, can't speak with authority here. My comment are from health and human service perspective. Any idea that brings good health care to most poor, down trodden, ignored, and outcast group of this nation, I am all in favor of that, simple reason, providing good health care to all citizens pays rich dividend to the nation in long term.
As far as morality, ethics, social norms behind prostituition is concerned--my answer to that is, there is a reason why it is called 'the oldest profession'. In our entire human history we could not remove prostituition by making it illegal, can we try a different approach for atleast 300 years, maybe just maybe we may get different results.
Anything that removes exploitation of one person by another person is noble, it transcends any moral or ethical dilemma, and it is shows the kindness of humanity.

Lets not be a prisoner of our dogma but a trail blazer in our karma--that's what our civilization has always taught us.

poonam
January 12th, 2010, 10:52 PM
Lets not be a prisoner of our dogma but a trail blazer in our karma.

Exactly! Words of wisdom!

rajkphogat
January 13th, 2010, 09:30 AM
Bhai Raj Phogat
Prostituition is of our dogma but a trail blazer in our karma--that's what our civilization has always taught us.


Karan bhai

Is this the only way to control exploitation and r we sure by this exploition will b removed????

Lot of NGO's working with Sex workers in Red light areas, Condoms etc u can find it anywhere through vending machines available in public toilets, in University campuses, govt hospital etc. then why we r not able to control AIDS. these are encouraged to get their childs in schools but do u think after legalisation their childs get betetr treatment in schools & unki izzat badh jayegi. haah

If a person pay money to use the body of another person (in this way) it itself explotation, not only of body but explotation of soul, i don't know what ur defination is bhai.

I hav also not done research on this but only trying to present my views which r diff. then urs.

No one answer me an Quest. which i asked sab gyan ki baat karen sein.

karan
January 13th, 2010, 09:10 PM
Raj
You have very valid point albeit in very abstract way. Most people are saying if you pay for sex it is not different than paying for milk, food etc. Sex is food for physical and psychological hunger. You may deny that or accept it. As far as stopping AIDS is concerned there is no silver bullet that can stop the spread of AIDS, we can only control it from becoming pandemic. Whether condoms control the spread of AIDS or not--jury is still out on that. As far as I know, all condoms are made of latex, and they have microscopic holes in them due to presence of carbon, where as AIDS virus is smaller than holes in latex so virus is able to transmit itself. This is what was taught in my college level biology class 15 yrs ago, they may have found a better technique, I don't know.
Will the children get better treatment in school or not that depends on teachers, school environment, laws and most important of all, society itself has to answer that question. Is Indian Society going to hold an innocent child responsible for the profession of their parents--answer is YES because we are just such hypocrites. We are a society that takes sadistic pleasure in dehumanizing and degrading innocence. There is not a question about "Izzat bhadani or ghatani" the premise behind legalization of prostitution is taking the stigma out of it. Take the enigma out of this equation, let it be a commerce where two consenting adults agree to sell and buy a service based on their mutual needs.
My question is who is the father of these kids born to prostitutes, even though its a commercial transaction the after affect (child born) is both their responsibility--let law find the men responsible and force them to pay child support and give their name for the dignity and respect that innocent child deserves, then we will see how many "Sharmaaydaar" and "Samaj key Rakshak" will stand their ground and be counted as men or they will come with an age old excuse of Indian Lexicon--"they are being framed in it by conspiracy of vested interest".

I have to give you a compliment, you are bringing alot of civilized debate and discussion on this subject. It is indeed my pleasure to be part of discussion with you, please accept my heartiest gratitude

rajkphogat
January 14th, 2010, 09:20 AM
Raj
[QUOTE=karan;237846]Raj
You have very valid point albeit in very abstract way. Most people are saying if you pay for sex it is not different than paying for milk, food etc. Sex is food for physical and psychological hunger. You may deny that or accept it.

bHAI YA TE SAMAJ SAMAJ KI BAAT SE, NU TE BALAK 25-26 SAAL TAI BHI TE REH E SE, SHADI TO USKEY BAAD HO HOTI HAI

As far as stopping AIDS is concerned there is no silver bullet that can stop the spread of AIDS, we can only control it from becoming pandemic. Whether condoms control the spread of AIDS or not--jury is still out on that. As far as I know, all condoms are made of latex, and they have microscopic holes in them due to presence of carbon, where as AIDS virus is smaller than holes in latex so virus is able to transmit itself. This is what was taught in my college level biology class 15 yrs ago, they may have found a better technique, I don't know. BHAI NO IDEA ABUT THAT
Will the children get better treatment in school or not that depends on teachers, school environment, laws and most important of all, society itself has to answer that question. Is Indian Society going to hold an innocent child responsible for the profession of their parents--answer is YES because we are just such hypocrites. We are a society that takes sadistic pleasure in dehumanizing and degrading innocence. There is not a question about "Izzat bhadani or ghatani" the premise behind legalization of prostitution is taking the stigma out of it. Take the enigma out of this equation, let it be a commerce where two consenting adults agree to sell and buy a service based on their mutual needs.

bHAI HYPPOCRASY TE FER BHI REHGI LAW BANANEY SE KUCH NAHI HOTA

My question is who is the father of these kids born to prostitutes, even though its a commercial transaction the after affect (child born) is both their responsibility--let law find the men responsible and force them to pay child support and give their name for the dignity and respect that innocent child deserves, then we will see how many "Sharmaaydaar" and "Samaj key Rakshak" will stand their ground and be counted as men or they will come with an age old excuse of Indian Lexicon--"they are being framed in it by conspiracy of vested interest".

BHAI YA BAAT TE PRACTICAL KONI, AS PER MY KNOWLEDGE DNA TEST COST 1 LACS, KITNEY TEST KARANEY PADENGEY BERA PADAN NEY KUN BAAP SE

I have to give you a compliment, you are bringing alot of civilized debate and discussion on this subject. It is indeed my pleasure to be part of discussion with you, please accept my heartiest gratitude

THANKS AND SAME HERE KARAN BHAI............

karan
January 14th, 2010, 09:19 PM
RajkPhogat Wrote

bHAI HYPPOCRASY TE FER BHI REHGI LAW BANANEY SE KUCH NAHI HOTA
Agree with you on that. Jatlanders and people like you, me can only answer this question on individual basis, in broad sense Society as whole has to answer this question. Unless society decides to free itself from the orthodox traditions and dogma, want to move forward toward more compassion, kindness toward all and practises the noble idea of our vedic teachings that a person should be judged by his virtue not by his lineage, it will remain a pipe dream.

खेर और सुना भाई के हाल सें. तेरा नहीं MSG आया कई दिना ते

prashantacmet
January 15th, 2010, 12:25 AM
http://www.jatland.com/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by karan http://www.jatland.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?p=237846)
Raj
You have very valid point albeit in very abstract way. Most people are saying if you pay for sex it is not different than paying for milk, food etc. Sex is food for physical and psychological hunger. You may deny that or accept it.

bHAI YA TE SAMAJ SAMAJ KI BAAT SE, NU TE BALAK 25-26 SAAL TAI BHI TE REH E SE, SHADI TO USKEY BAAD HO HOTI HAI

hahahaha...............25-26 saal lok baalak kyooker reh ..wo tanne bhi byara hoga Raj......try to accept the truth


As far as stopping AIDS is concerned there is no silver bullet that can stop the spread of AIDS, we can only control it from becoming pandemic. Whether condoms control the spread of AIDS or not--jury is still out on that. As far as I know, all condoms are made of latex, and they have microscopic holes in them due to presence of carbon, where as AIDS virus is smaller than holes in latex so virus is able to transmit itself. This is what was taught in my college level biology class 15 yrs ago, they may have found a better technique, I don't know. BHAI NO IDEA ABUT THAT
Will the children get better treatment in school or not that depends on teachers, school environment, laws and most important of all, society itself has to answer that question. Is Indian Society going to hold an innocent child responsible for the profession of their parents--answer is YES because we are just such hypocrites. We are a society that takes sadistic pleasure in dehumanizing and degrading innocence. There is not a question about "Izzat bhadani or ghatani" the premise behind legalization of prostitution is taking the stigma out of it. Take the enigma out of this equation, let it be a commerce where two consenting adults agree to sell and buy a service based on their mutual needs.

bHAI HYPPOCRASY TE FER BHI REHGI LAW BANANEY SE KUCH NAHI HOTA

My question is who is the father of these kids born to prostitutes, even though its a commercial transaction the after affect (child born) is both their responsibility--let law find the men responsible and force them to pay child support and give their name for the dignity and respect that innocent child deserves, then we will see how many "Sharmaaydaar" and "Samaj key Rakshak" will stand their ground and be counted as men or they will come with an age old excuse of Indian Lexicon--"they are being framed in it by conspiracy of vested interest".

BHAI YA BAAT TE PRACTICAL KONI, AS PER MY KNOWLEDGE DNA TEST COST 1 LACS, KITNEY TEST KARANEY PADENGEY BERA PADAN NEY KUN BAAP SE

I have to give you a compliment, you are bringing alot of civilized debate and discussion on this subject. It is indeed my pleasure to be part of discussion with you, please accept my heartiest gratitude

rajkphogat
January 15th, 2010, 09:35 AM
[QUOTE=prashantacmet;237937]http://www.jatland.com/forums/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by karan http://www.jatland.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?p=237846)
Raj
You have very valid point albeit in very abstract way. Most people are saying if you pay for sex it is not different than paying for milk, food etc. Sex is food for physical and psychological hunger. You may deny that or accept it.

bHAI YA TE SAMAJ SAMAJ KI BAAT SE, NU TE BALAK 25-26 SAAL TAI BHI TE REH E SE, SHADI TO USKEY BAAD HO HOTI HAI

hahahaha...............25-26 saal lok baalak kyooker reh ..wo tanne bhi byara hoga Raj......try to accept the truth

Hahahahha.......................... Bhai baat te sahi se par Prostitute dhorey kitney k jaan se???????

gaganjat
January 16th, 2010, 11:54 PM
either u legalise it or keep it illegal its not gona change wat people think about prostitutes. it is not gona make it a more respectful profession one can be proud of.

baki rahi baat bimari rokne ki ar baki sari cheezo ki. ik baar legal ho gaya to bina license (ya jo bhi cheez hogi record ke liye) prostitution bhi koi bada jurm nahi mana jayega. jise Aids/STDs ho jayegi vo bina license ke kaam karenge.

Prostitution is a grey area and there are so many other things on the priority list like: traffic, roads, commonwealth etc. that no body gives a dam*n about this prostitution thing.

Abhi to desh me drivers license , voter Id card, rashan card, centralised police information system wagah wagarah ka kaam pura nahi hua hai prostitutaaa ke kit Id banne the.

System se kaam kiya jaye to prostitution ko legalise karna bura nahi hai , bas ye na ho kaam adha adhoora chod diya jaye jaisa ki hota raha hai. and yes there should be amendments in the law to keep a check on what happens in these red light areas.

something funny and serious 'legal prostitution se rape cases/ched chad/jawan log paise ke liye jo crime karte hai (seen alot recently young fellows committing crimes to feed their Gfs ) me kami aa sakti hai'

sudeepdular
January 24th, 2010, 02:11 AM
[QUOTE=choudharyneelam;237447]So true n workable but hota kya hai.....old relationship becomes dull n the new one takes place......Batuknath ne kar dikhaya.....many more are there who are not focussed by media on television.

But one thing I wanna ask u all, laws to bahaut bane hain for women but kitno ko hathiyar bana paa rahi hain mahilaayen.....like I recently read somewhere,
if a female is seduced by a man n she by mistake becomes the victim of that then she too can sue the guy who seduced her. Kaun si ladki khul ke saamne aati hai? Poor girl. Laws to bana diye but samaj itna ganda hai ki unn laws ka istemaal karein usse pahle bechari ladki ko galat thehra dete hain. And once a girl lost her virginity she has no option to get marry with other either by disclosing(at her own risk) or by hiding so as to be safe in this bad world protected by the arms of her husband. If husband is gud then her life is ok otherwise she is lost somewhere.

My reply to the bold quotes.
Phir se wo hi sex, virginity, copulation, condoms, ipil etc etc. You all will get me banned this time on speaking on sex. Anyway m glad a girls used this (sex) unspeakable word on JL.I will try expressing my one & half cents (last time two cents tha) in right context without outraging the woman’s modesty.
How a woman is seduced by a man:confused: Like amrish puri who seduced sridevi with his been in Nagina. And sri devi just couldn’t control herself and kept on inclined toward jattadhaari sapera Bharav naath . Though he was not after her virginity but for naagmani. Unfortunatly today’s naagraaj are just after naagin’s virginity and that’s a disturbing trand. Some naagraaj feel betrayed when they find that the naagin they were chasing with so much hope is not virgin at all. Matlab she has lost her virginity with some other naagraj (may be anupam kher) prior to him.
Where is she lost??? See..There are so many intelligent women out there who knows after sleeping with men (probabliy more than one) how to move on in their life. Take suggestion from them.

What the govt. was able to do for such girls apart from providing a law? Did it really worked? Why not a man learn to respect virginity? Why not a girl is supported if she commits a mistake? Why not the man admit his mistake? Why it is given the name of mutual of consent? Seducing any innocent lady is a very big crime. Why not it is understood in the right direction n action taken against? Why not?

Govt does not monitor one’s sexual adventure or experiment done for pleasure. Is virginity needs to be respect or enjoyed? Or both? Yeh every guy want to inaugurate a new establishment cutting the red ribbon (or precisely pink) with their own hand or whatever physical part. Seducing any innocent lady…what is that??? Now that pissed me off completely. ( m joking not pissed off). BTW how big this crime is? Should be measureble to bring this into the scope of legislation. well future’s outcome is always discounted. Ideally woman’s sixth sense precisly tells them which part of body a guy is looking at. Or what he wants from the relationshilp. Give yourself time ladies to know a guy unless you really want to enjoy a fling. It’s not always girls who experence eve teasing, even boys experence that. I haven’t teased girls as much as they have teased me. Once I went to Maharani college in jaipur along with my friend, he was talking to his sister and I was just hanging around, and then I saw a groups of girls out there; sitting on the stairs, staring at me, and when I looked at them they started laughing so grossly as they have seen world’s most funniest person. Initally I thogut Is there something wrong with my attire or posture? But when they started hooting, i really felt good to see how our girls have become so empowered. But they did a mistake by perceving me one kind of jain or johari boy. Now it was my turn, I pick one charming girl among the bunch who was taking the lead of eve teasers. I called up one girl bahan ji type to pass on a chit to her. She gave that chit to that girl. She read and came toward me with her gang like angry wild buffalo. On striking she asked me what do you think of yourself? I looked into her eyes and said....Bond.......James Bond..!. I encouraged them to molest me physically. That’s the only way to end this Male domination in the society & come at par. What would have been the phenomena had the news been read out. – A 20 year old boy was molested by seven girls in college campus. Three girls have been arrested on the charges of sexual assault and four girls are still absconding. Boy is being sent for medical examination. His cloth has been sent to forensic lab. Innocent Boy is rehabilating in “Trauma Center”. The “Akhil bhartiya yuva morcha” has condemed this act. This is the seventh case reported of boy’s molestion in the last two weeks. Thana Bani park circle inspector-Dharpakad singh has assured the agitated activists of purush sangrakshan samiti amid tense atmosphere in the conference that they have some clue about the perpetrators and will nab them soon.
Martin luthar king had once said while addressing American civil movement “I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. I have a dream that one day right there in Alabama little black boys and black girls will be able to join hands with little white boys and white girls as sisters and brothers. I have a dream that one day on the red hills of Georgia, the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slave owners will be able to sit down together at the table of brotherhood.
I have a dream today!
I too have a dream that one day the ladies will eliminate the male domination from the society. And will molest the men psychologically and physically outright. I have a dream that one day woman will be able to roam freely in the midnight alone like men and mom’s will advise their boys never go out in the night as it’s not safe for boys .I have a dream that boys will feel miserable and a sense of deep regret after loosing their virginity to girls. I have a dream that one day in a cocktail party Rupan deol bajaj will pat on the butt of KPS gill. And KPS gill will file the case of molestation.
Yes I have a dream today.

Continued.....

rohitmalik8
January 25th, 2010, 07:02 PM
Is legalisation of prostitution is a corollary of Women enpowerment?

Some of us thinks.....womens are made only to be wives or prostitutes. You can't and shouldn't do anything to help them. Better leave them on their own.

To hell with that culture and society where a wife is forced to have sex without her will but it is not fine with society that a women earnig her living(legally) by staking her reputation on line.

Someone talked about daily wages, Rs 200 dhiyadi or something.....i would like to ask, if someone pays you more money than your daily wages, would you indulge in sex with any women or men? Kyun easy money hai....why not???(Sadak pe pada hua 100 ka note bhi to apna hi hota hai)........would you do it?......Nah....you have knoweledge/experiance/parents......almost everything to blow you out of this kind of situations........but what if these benefits doesn't exist for you?....."Jinda rahne insaan ka pahla Haq hai"....padha tha kahin baaki pata nahi how many of us are not afraid to die?

One more thing, if women/men are willing to have sex with more than one man/woman....then its ok...ITs not prostitution. Right? But it is called prostitution when one's living depends on it. Strange?.....oh, yes men are exception, they Run this world. Prostitution was a promotion of men in old times, so we got no one to blame.

Bhai maar diya choka, last para to gajab hai. vaise I agree with your point of view!!!!!

rohitmalik8
January 25th, 2010, 07:04 PM
Is mein koi bharat sanskriti ki baat naa se.
Prostitution is part of Indian culture ... devdasi etc.
Which culture are you talking about?
These things were part of ancient Indian culture.

This is Indian culture today:
Hypocrisy
Useless religious rituals by fat housewives
child worship
Watching serials on Star/Sony/Zee
Corruption and pride associated with being corrupt .. maa/baap/rishtedaar chhati thook ke kahe sein mahara chhora upar ki kamai kare sei.
Phooti tooti sadken ... gandagi/jaanwar sab jageh ... no bijli paani.
Sexually frustrated young people doing it in the back of the car ... chori chupke ... Police kaa perverted Ramphal always trying to find such couples instead of doing actual police work.
What else ... oh yeah ... false ethnic/religious pride ... mein Jaat hoon, Yadav, gujjar, Sardar, Tamil etc.
Slavery waala attitude
Oh haan ... mobile phone worship ... aur us pe ulte seedhe SMS / callertune set karna.


All the above thing make prostitution look like a noble deed - something .bhisham pitahmeh
would do.

Oh ... and by the way...
My friends/members on this website including me don't indulge in any of the above activities. :):)

Very well said Sid!!!! You have pointed out several problems that we are facing in 1 post.!!!!!! ;)

karan
January 25th, 2010, 11:03 PM
either u legalise it or keep it illegal its not gona change wat people think about prostitutes. it is not gona make it a more respectful profession one can be proud of.
Gagan
We are not talking about pride or disgrace here. It is the tool for survival for someone who couldn't survive otherwise.


baki rahi baat bimari rokne ki ar baki sari cheezo ki. ik baar legal ho gaya to bina license (ya jo bhi cheez hogi record ke liye) prostitution bhi koi bada jurm nahi mana jayega. jise Aids/STDs ho jayegi vo bina license ke kaam karenge.
Like I said, regulation is not about passing judgement but to keep track of how many are involved in this profession, it has more to do with providing timely medical help and stop the spread of disease. Its more about containment than curtailment. Whole idea is if they get AIDS/HIV sequester them, provide them with healthcare.


Prostitution is a grey area and there are so many other things on the priority list like: traffic, roads, commonwealth etc. that no body gives a dam*n about this prostitution thing.
True there are other pressing priorities too, but the fact is tricks will seek out their customers regardless of traffic, roads, bijli, paani availability.


Abhi to desh me drivers license , voter Id card, rashan card, centralised police information system wagah wagarah ka kaam pura nahi hua hai prostitutaaa ke kit Id banne the.
Who said anything about giving prostitutes a separate ID, if anyone wants a driver license all that person has to do is --take a test, pay bribe, get license.


System se kaam kiya jaye to prostitution ko legalise karna bura nahi hai , bas ye na ho kaam adha adhoora chod diya jaye jaisa ki hota raha hai. and yes there should be amendments in the law to keep a check on what happens in these red light areas.
Now you have hit the nail, if system has to work its enforcement and implementation must be thorough. Like you put it the best--'Kaam Adhoora chod diya jaye'--that's where we need a paradigm shift on everything not just this issue


something funny and serious 'legal prostitution se rape cases/ched chad/jawan log paise ke liye jo crime karte hai (seen alot recently young fellows committing crimes to feed their Gfs ) me kami aa sakti hai'
Very valid and great insight. For above I think our Bollywood is more at fault, what ever they show in their movies has impact on young people, since it has audio visual affect on viewers, some people are influenced by it and try to imitate that...as the saying goes, life imitating art.
I have to agree with you, there is no easy solution to this problem and for the country like India habitated by over Billion plus souls. For every suggestion there are Billion critiques. Everybody wants to be heard in this sink hole.

kapdal
January 26th, 2010, 04:00 AM
On striking she asked me what do you think of yourself? I looked into her eyes and said....Bond.......James Bond..!.

"Dular...Sudeep Dular" would have been much more jhakaaas, in my humble opinion...:)

sudeepdular
January 26th, 2010, 04:34 PM
"Dular...Sudeep Dular" would have been much more jhakaaas, in my humble opinion...:)


hahaha..kapil, i was 19 year old then hence did the mistake, as suggested by you above will do the the same if trapped again.:)

rajkphogat
January 26th, 2010, 05:09 PM
But tell me one thing...How can a girl be innocent when she secretly start the affair with a boy without the knowledge of her family and goes to boys room sleeps on his bed or khaat (sarkaelo khatiya jaada lage, jaade me balma pyara lage).Do you ladies knows that guys cant control their lower half. No one is gentleman below the waist . Sometimes i think how many Indian girls are virgin before their marriage.30 %, 50 % or 70%. Well i have no idea about that bt i have one of my dearest male friend on JL who is virgin not because of lack of opportunity bt because of his strong conviction. And he is very COOL about it. He always prefers beer over girls. Why don’t you girls just keep yourself away from falling in pseduo love before marriage? Do you girls listen to your parent’s adivse when they tell u not to be so acquaint with boys, draw a line. If you girls just keep yourself focused toward studies & home affairs, your parents will find a suitable boy for you like vikram seth. You won’t have to write the plight of the girls here. Indian dating scene is horriblely wrong.Most Boys are sexually frustrated here who didn’t have the company of girl’s right from childhood. Hence there is a huge lack of understanding of opposite sex. That leads to the sexual curosity. And curostiy leads to the molestion of the girls. So they percevie the girls as a sex object first and companion second.Our indian girls are also not fully equipped and well aware of dating do’s and don’t’s. in western countires girls knows dating game very well. They know what’s good touch and whats bad touch right from their childhood. They can distinguish whats a good proposal or whats otherwise. They are well educated by their parents or siblings to judge a guy on his intentions. Unlike India where girls are fascinated & overwhelmed by attention. Arey wo ladka teri taraf dekh raha tha…wow…wo to gaya kaam se tere pyar me…aisa maloom nahi wo ek number ka dhurth kamina naagraaj hai jo sirf virginity ko lootna chahata hai mohamad gaznavi ki tarah. Phir gana gaati hain. Pardeshi pardeshi jana nahi, Mujhe choodd ke mujhe chod ke. OH my God (which never ever exised).Jesus christ!!! What is this again innocent pleasureable mistake? Don’t you ladies afraid of one eyed snake. How she was not aware of landing into the darkness. It seems by just loosing virginity girls lands into the loop of darkness. Is it. BTW in todays scenero its hard to find a virgin girl, atleast in metro’s. Khushboo, a tamil actress once landed herself in a trouble when she said "No educated man would expect his (bride) to be a virgin". Kisi ladke ne koi bachpan me experment kar liya ho to jarur laal ribbon katne ko mila hoga…ab to ribbon kata hua hi aata hai…Ab to gaon ki chooriyon bhi masoom nahi rahi..कभी सरसों का खेत चौपट मिलता है बिच में से..तो कभी बाजरे के सीटों में सलवटे दिखायीं देती हैं...फूल हर तरफ मुरझाएं हुए से दीखते हैं ...दबे हुए, कुचले हुए ..कुछ पत्तियां और कोंपले जो फूटी भी नहीं थी, मसली हुए दिखाई दी..प्रेम की दहलीज़ पर कुछ ख्वाबो का खून हुआ है शायद...!

hhahahahhahahah

Rey bhai sudeep

yo k se rey kunse lekhak ki kitaab padh li

Isa k dekh liya tanne jo eb experience generalise kare se.

All rubbish......................

Samarkadian
January 26th, 2010, 06:02 PM
Akshay, news for you from Sirsa.

Atleast for the first time in my knoweledge, Dera Saccha Sauda is in new for good reasons.

सिरसा : न लग्न-मुहूर्त, न लग्न-मंडप ..! न डोली, न बारात ..! न शहनाई और न ही पंडित जी का मंत्रोच्चारण ..! बस, चहुंओर आस्था व विश्वास की अटूट डोर ..। जी, हां यहां बात हो रही है उस ऐतिहासिक पहल की जो निश्चय ही आने वाले दिनों में न केवल समाज को एक दिशा देगी अपितु समाज में व्याप्त काली भ्रांतियों को उजाले में लाएगी। यह पहल सिरसा स्थित डेरा सच्चा सौदा में समाज की मुख्य धारा से कटी व हेय दृष्टि से देखी जाने वाली बदनाम गली की पांच वेश्याओं को परिणय सूत्र में बांधकर की गई है। दरअसल, संत शाह सतनाम के जन्मदिवस पर जब अलग-अलग जगहों से आई पांच वेश्याओं की शादी रचाई गई तो वह पल अलौकिक दृश्य उपस्थित करता रहा। बेशक इस शादी में न तो दूल्हा घोड़ी चढ़ा और न ही दूल्हे के पीछे लंबी-चौड़ी बारात थी। लेकिन जिस स्थल पर वैवाहिक रस्म संपन्न हुई वहां उपस्थित लाखों लोग समाज को नया आयाम देने वाली इस पहल के साक्षी बने। हर कंठ से वर-वधू को आशीष के लिए स्वर फूट रहे थे। हर आंखों में विजयी चमक थी। यह चमक नारकीय जीवन को स्वर्गिक बनाने के प्रयास के फलस्वरूप थी। सच तो यह है कि वेश्या से शुभ देवियां बनीं इन नई गृहस्थिनों की आंखें भी नवजीवन की खुशी में नम हो गई थी। एक शुभ देवी कहती है कि उसे तो आज सारे जहां की खुशी मिल गई। इस शुभ देवी के अनुसार अब वह नई जिंदगी की शुरूआत करेगी। दांपत्य जीवन की खुशियां जितनी शुभ देवियों के चेहरे पर दमक रही थी उतनी ही वर अर्थात भक्त योद्धा के चेहरे पर भी। एक सच यह भी है कि समाज से तिरस्कृत इन वेश्याओं के हाथ थामने वाले भक्त योद्धाओं के परिजनों ने भी बढ़-चढ़कर दिलेरी दिखाई है। इन्हे बदनामी की चादर ओढ़ने वाली शुभ देवी बहू से कोई शिकवा-शिकायत कतई नहीं। ये सहर्ष अपनी बहू को अपना रहे है। समाज को नई दिशा देने की पहल करने वाले डेरा प्रमुख संत गुरमीत राम रहीम सिंह भी अपने प्रयास की उत्तम परिणति से उत्साहित दिखाई दे रहे है। तभी तो वह कहते है कि आगे भी समाज की मुख्य धारा से अलग रहने वाले लोगों को जोड़ने की कोशिशें जारी रहेगी। उनकी राय में वेश्या से शुभ देवी बनी इन मजबूर लड़कियों की शादी एक ब्रह्म विवाह है। समाज शास्त्रियों की राय में भी ऐसी कोशिशें समाज की सोच को परिमार्जित कर सकती है। निश्चित तौर पर डेरा मुखी गुरमीत राम रहीम सिंह की पहल पर आयोजित इस ब्रह्म विवाह समारोह को देखकर परलोक भी प्रभावित हुए बिना नहीं रह सका होगा। बहरहाल, जिस तरह समाज में फैले कुरीतियों के आसमान में छेद करने के लिए तबियत से पत्थर उछाला गया है, इसके दूरगामी परिणाम निश्चय ही परिलक्षित होंगे।

http://in.jagran.yahoo.com/news/local/haryana/4_6_6133587.html

http://news.indiainfo.com/article/100125111131_dera_sacha_sauda_member_to_marry_sex_ workers/789452.html

Rehablitation is thousand times better than legalisation.

akshaymalik84
January 26th, 2010, 06:36 PM
Indeed a good step by Dera Saccha. Best thing is that the financial condition of Male is taken care of and enough intraction period is given to them.

rajkphogat
January 26th, 2010, 08:38 PM
Akshay, news for you from Sirsa.

Atleast for the first time in my knoweledge, Dera Saccha Sauda is in new for good reasons.

सिरसा : न लग्न-मुहूर्त, न लग्न-मंडप ..! न डोली, न बारात ..! न शहनाई और न ही पंडित जी का मंत्रोच्चारण ..! बस, चहुंओर आस्था व विश्वास की अटूट डोर ..। जी, हां यहां बात हो रही है उस ऐतिहासिक पहल की जो निश्चय ही आने वाले दिनों में न केवल समाज को एक दिशा देगी अपितु समाज में व्याप्त काली भ्रांतियों को उजाले में लाएगी। यह पहल सिरसा स्थित डेरा सच्चा सौदा में समाज की मुख्य धारा से कटी व हेय दृष्टि से देखी जाने वाली बदनाम गली की पांच वेश्याओं को परिणय सूत्र में बांधकर की गई है। दरअसल, संत शाह सतनाम के जन्मदिवस पर जब अलग-अलग जगहों से आई पांच वेश्याओं की शादी रचाई गई तो वह पल अलौकिक दृश्य उपस्थित करता रहा। बेशक इस शादी में न तो दूल्हा घोड़ी चढ़ा और न ही दूल्हे के पीछे लंबी-चौड़ी बारात थी। लेकिन जिस स्थल पर वैवाहिक रस्म संपन्न हुई वहां उपस्थित लाखों लोग समाज को नया आयाम देने वाली इस पहल के साक्षी बने। हर कंठ से वर-वधू को आशीष के लिए स्वर फूट रहे थे। हर आंखों में विजयी चमक थी। यह चमक नारकीय जीवन को स्वर्गिक बनाने के प्रयास के फलस्वरूप थी। सच तो यह है कि वेश्या से शुभ देवियां बनीं इन नई गृहस्थिनों की आंखें भी नवजीवन की खुशी में नम हो गई थी। एक शुभ देवी कहती है कि उसे तो आज सारे जहां की खुशी मिल गई। इस शुभ देवी के अनुसार अब वह नई जिंदगी की शुरूआत करेगी। दांपत्य जीवन की खुशियां जितनी शुभ देवियों के चेहरे पर दमक रही थी उतनी ही वर अर्थात भक्त योद्धा के चेहरे पर भी। एक सच यह भी है कि समाज से तिरस्कृत इन वेश्याओं के हाथ थामने वाले भक्त योद्धाओं के परिजनों ने भी बढ़-चढ़कर दिलेरी दिखाई है। इन्हे बदनामी की चादर ओढ़ने वाली शुभ देवी बहू से कोई शिकवा-शिकायत कतई नहीं। ये सहर्ष अपनी बहू को अपना रहे है। समाज को नई दिशा देने की पहल करने वाले डेरा प्रमुख संत गुरमीत राम रहीम सिंह भी अपने प्रयास की उत्तम परिणति से उत्साहित दिखाई दे रहे है। तभी तो वह कहते है कि आगे भी समाज की मुख्य धारा से अलग रहने वाले लोगों को जोड़ने की कोशिशें जारी रहेगी। उनकी राय में वेश्या से शुभ देवी बनी इन मजबूर लड़कियों की शादी एक ब्रह्म विवाह है। समाज शास्त्रियों की राय में भी ऐसी कोशिशें समाज की सोच को परिमार्जित कर सकती है। निश्चित तौर पर डेरा मुखी गुरमीत राम रहीम सिंह की पहल पर आयोजित इस ब्रह्म विवाह समारोह को देखकर परलोक भी प्रभावित हुए बिना नहीं रह सका होगा। बहरहाल, जिस तरह समाज में फैले कुरीतियों के आसमान में छेद करने के लिए तबियत से पत्थर उछाला गया है, इसके दूरगामी परिणाम निश्चय ही परिलक्षित होंगे।

http://in.jagran.yahoo.com/news/local/haryana/4_6_6133587.html

http://news.indiainfo.com/article/100125111131_dera_sacha_sauda_member_to_marry_sex_ workers/789452.html

Rehablitation is thousand times better than legalisation.

This is d best thing done by Ram Rahim.

In our society he dare to think abut this type of bold step ............ its great.

karan
January 26th, 2010, 09:11 PM
Here is a new article published in India Today...Prostituition has taken a turn...don't know for better or for worse but it sure has given opportunity for corrupt officials, politicians, a new venue to make money.

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/site/Story/80283/Cover%20Story/The+new+white+flesh+trade.html

As far as Ram Rahim Dera Saccha Sauda even though his work is commendable for now, we must approach it with caution. Lets wait and see what comes next. It seems to me he is taking a very methodical approach to influence the masses. I hope he sticks to his social goals but I will wait and watch this Dera, and dig a little deeper to see if it is all altruism or ulterior motive. I wouldn't be surprised if some how Pakistani Intelligence is involved into this....

sudeepdular
January 26th, 2010, 11:32 PM
hhahahahhahahah

Rey bhai sudeep

yo k se rey kunse lekhak ki kitaab padh li

Isa k dekh liya tanne jo eb experience generalise kare se.

All rubbish......................

फोगाट...... मैंने लेखक "मस्तराम " के गंदे स्तरहीन सड़क छाप साहित्य पढ़े है जो दिल्ली की सडको पर प्रचुर मात्र में उपलब्ध रहे है.....उसी का ये परिणाम है की मेरे लेखन पर उनका अमिट प्रभाव अभी भी देखा जा सकता है....सबसे बड़ी विडंबना तो यही है की प्रेम चंद और शरत चन्द्र चटोपाधाय की कालजयी रचनाओं को पढने के बाद भी मेरे अन्दर का मस्तराम जाग उठता है..अब जो बुद्धिजीवी वर्ग है वो तो मेरे लेखन से कोई सरोकार नहीं रखते ! लेकिन तुम्हारे जैसे पाठको की आलोचनाओं से ही मेरे स्तरहीन लेखन का स्तर तथा उसकी शेली में सुधार की संभावनाए पैदा होती है. आमूल चुल परिवर्तन का आश्वासन देना तो व्यर्थ रहेगा....एक बात बता यार... तू वो ही है ना जो अपना अमूल्य समय यहाँ चोपाल में व्यतित करता है... मिलता हूँ तेरे से एक दिन वही पर कोने में लेके आछी तरया समझाऊंगा.... खूब जमेगा रंग जब हम तीन मिल बैठेंगे, में, तू और बेग पाईपर...अब ये मत बोलना के बेग पाईपर तेरे Standard की नहीं है.....tu bhi aadmi bada mast hai yaar!

yudhvirmor
January 27th, 2010, 02:22 AM
Here is a new article published in India Today...Prostituition has taken a turn...don't know for better or for worse but it sure has given opportunity for corrupt officials, politicians, a new venue to make money.

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/site/Story/80283/Cover%20Story/The+new+white+flesh+trade.html

As far as Ram Rahim Dera Saccha Sauda even though his work is commendable for now, we must approach it with caution. Lets wait and see what comes next. It seems to me he is taking a very methodical approach to influence the masses. I hope he sticks to his social goals but I will wait and watch this Dera, and dig a little deeper to see if it is all altruism or ulterior motive. I wouldn't be surprised if some how Pakistani Intelligence is involved into this....

Its a typical answer to most of indian issues.... Pakistan kaa hath hai.. yaa koi bahari takaton ki sajis hai...

Most of Punjab is divided because of the Deras.. However, I agree with Karan that its commendable step.

Whether govt legalise it, There must be steps to improve the lives of these poor and exploited women. Law has to be amended to protect them from exploitation by police, pimps and customers.

sanjaymalik
January 27th, 2010, 10:10 AM
Its a typical answer to most of indian issues.... Pakistan kaa hath hai.. yaa koi bahari takaton ki sajis hai...

Most of Punjab is divided because of the Deras.. However, I agree with Karan that its commendable step.

Whether govt legalise it, There must be steps to improve the lives of these poor and exploited women. Law has to be amended to protect them from exploitation by police, pimps and customers.

Mor Bhai this is really true.this is typical Indian Govt style answer like ISI/pakistan ka hath hai. Totally agree with you.

karan
January 27th, 2010, 09:21 PM
dupe..............

karan
January 27th, 2010, 09:33 PM
Its a typical answer to most of indian issues.... Pakistan kaa hath hai.. yaa koi bahari takaton ki sajis hai...

Most of Punjab is divided because of the Deras.. However, I agree with Karan that its commendable step.

Whether govt legalise it, There must be steps to improve the lives of these poor and exploited women. Law has to be amended to protect them from exploitation by police, pimps and customers.

You really have to find and read the dossier on 'Operation Topaz'. I have never been surprised at the presence of Apologists in India.
Rest of the discussion about pakistan is saved for some other thread. Now back to the thread.
It is a big difference at small scale to bring dignity back to some women.

singhvp
March 2nd, 2010, 03:35 PM
Prostitution is a social malaise which need to be rooted out rather than getting social/legal recognition. I qoute a famous Urdu couplet "Duniyan ki har besharmi gurbat (poverty) ki god (lap) mein palti hai, chaklon(brothel) hi mein jakar rukti hai phakon (poverty) se jo raj niklati hai".
As you all must be aware, this profession has been evolving in different forms through different phases of human civilization. The genesis of this problem is primarily deprivation, educational backwardness and social neglect and disparity. (However, exceptions are always there and one may find some well-educated, high profile girls also in this profession known as call girls in common parlance. These may also be called as glorified prostitutes). But majority of girls are forced into sex-trade either by abject poverty or social black-mail or social ostracization. Therefore, these reasons need to be addressed to eradicate this social malaise rather than institutionalising it. There is no denying the fact that in many developed countries this profession has legal sanctity as it has been mush-rooming as a full-fledged industry and a huge source of revenue. . (Places like Amsterdam have become major hubs of sex and drug tourism ). But any legal sanctity to prostitution in India will have only negative ramifications. Ours is a relatively conservative society with orthodox social values entirely different from the western world. The conditions are not yet ripe for such a major reform and the middle class social milieu is not ready to accept it. Let the thin veil remain there to cover this evil. (Kuch baatein parde mein hi achchi lagti hain).
Time will come and this evil will wither away automatically.

anilsinghd
March 2nd, 2010, 06:58 PM
Shailendra ji,

Whereas prostitution starts as no-choice and ends with no-choices for majority of the women and children.



am not so sure here.

it must be something like this :
dZ (change in number of prostitutes after legalisation) = adX (change due to new entrants) - bdY (change due to out goers).

You only touched the out goers based on choice , I am not sure if new entrants component is empty if things are legalised. The rampant business of young girls / college students entering this field for some fast and extra money might take a toll and bloom further ( as now the girls/ladies would not fear being caught and tortured by police /media on their acts), No?

anilsinghd
March 2nd, 2010, 07:01 PM
Aren't these unfortunate women akin to social workers providing some "solace" to the "troubled" men in the society?
.


Found your post a bit funny , not to start men v ladies all over again , but you can also consider the same thing as CHARITY from men, no? You can give fancy adjectives like compassionate , empathy etc etc.

annch
March 2nd, 2010, 07:14 PM
My post was meant to be funny...:)......
CHARITY from men??? The services that they get in return for their "charity" is what- Tax rebate?

Found your post a bit funny , not to start men v ladies all over again , but you can also consider the same thing as CHARITY from men, no? You can give fancy adjectives like compassionate , empathy etc etc.

annch
March 2nd, 2010, 07:31 PM
Guruji, you are right. My arguement on this thread is not whether legalization would impact the numbers, it is that legalization should improve the plight of women and the children born to them.

Yes, there will be women who might make the "choice", my comment was for "majority" of women and children.

am not so sure here.

it must be something like this :
dZ (change in number of prostitutes after legalisation) = adX (change due to new entrants) - bdY (change due to out goers).

You only touched the out goers based on choice , I am not sure if new entrants component is empty if things are legalised. The rampant business of young girls / college students entering this field for some fast and extra money might take a toll and bloom further ( as now the girls/ladies would not fear being caught and tortured by police /media on their acts), No?

anilsinghd
March 2nd, 2010, 08:21 PM
CHARITY from men??? The services that they get in return for their "charity" is what- Tax rebate?

Lets complicate this one. Its CHARITY with lots of compassion and empathy but also not breaking the self-esteem of the charity-taker(thus giving her a false notion of actually taking services in return). Makes more sense?

annch
March 2nd, 2010, 08:24 PM
Yeah, probable when prostitution is legalised.....:D

Lets complicate this one. Its CHARITY with lots of compassion and empathy but also not breaking the self-esteem of the charity-taker(thus giving her a false notion of actually taking services in return). Makes more sense?

anilsinghd
March 2nd, 2010, 08:29 PM
My arguement on this thread is not whether legalization would impact the numbers, it is that legalization should improve the plight of women and the children born to them.


For the most of the two hours that I spent reading up the posts on the thread, I was thinking if you can take the abvoe mentioned decision in isolation? Think you got to make a stand first on whether you favour or not the "prostitution" as a concept. If the answer is NO , you need to actually do an analysis of the change that would be introduced as a part of legalisation. You probably do not want to find yourself in a situation where you actually have turned lives of few destitutes to good BUT you have introduced considerable societal imbalance.
Just to make up an hypothetical example: Suppose the number of ladies entering into this (as a profession (part-time) for easy money) increase a lot. How would that correlate to divorce rate? (I am not sure if there is any correlation but what if it actually does have some positive correlation?). How would that correlate to suicides (of those same females as a result of their frustrations accumualted over time for an act they did by chocie!)?

annch
March 2nd, 2010, 08:41 PM
Now you are stretching it a bit too far, hypothetically.
Suppose a lady enters into this profession for easy money, with her husband being aware of it. Suppose the lady/her husband do not feel any frustration. Suppose with the easy money she earns, her children go to top schools and colleges and become doctors and engineers. And, voila! you see an upliftment of society.



For the most of the two hours that I spent reading up the posts on the thread, I was thinking if you can take the abvoe mentioned decision in isolation? Think you got to make a stand first on whether you favour or not the "prostitution" as a concept. If the answer is NO , you need to actually do an analysis of the change that would be introduced as a part of legalisation. You probably do not want to find yourself in a situation where you actually have turned lives of few destitutes to good BUT you have introduced considerable societal imbalance.
Just to make up an hypothetical example: Suppose the number of ladies entering into this (as a profession (part-time) for easy money) increase a lot. How would that correlate to divorce rate? (I am not sure if there is any correlation but what if it actually does have some positive correlation?). How would that correlate to suicides (of those same females as a result of their frustrations accumualted over time for an act they did by chocie!)?

kapdal
March 3rd, 2010, 07:05 AM
am not so sure here.

it must be something like this :
dZ (change in number of prostitutes after legalisation) = adX (change due to new entrants) - bdY (change due to out goers).

You only touched the out goers based on choice , I am not sure if new entrants component is empty if things are legalised. The rampant business of young girls / college students entering this field for some fast and extra money might take a toll and bloom further ( as now the girls/ladies would not fear being caught and tortured by police /media on their acts), No?

Anil, not sure if you have gone through all the posts. But the "change due to new entrants" part of your equation has been discussed in detail.

First and foremost, legalising has to be understood in context. It doesn't mean that the govt. would now open colleges for teaching prostitution and subsidies would be given to the industry. Why should females feel incentivized to become prostitutes just because it is legal? That is like saying that there are several females who would be happy to become prostitutes, but don't do it because of the law. If that is where our society is- then it is already in deep sh*t out of which there is no escape route. I don't think that is the case. Legalisation doesn't make the industry honorable in front of the society. And prostitutes by choice, anyways, are not deterred by the law in most cases. In the same way as people don't stop taking dowry just because there is a law against it.

Legalisation here is akin to regulation. Saying that OK, let's accept it happens in this area, but it should happen ONLY in this area and not in a residential area (All culture-vultures should be happy from this). That NO ONE below a certain age can be forced into it, etc. etc. Plus, once you accept the reality that it exists, you can take various social upliftment steps, including but not limited to- health (prevent spread of AIDS and STDs), education (to prostitutes' kids thus giving them career alternatives), etc. Plus, you take some burden off an over-worked police force, who feel compelled to harass prostitutes sufficiently enough to have a regular income stream from them. I mean, comeon!! Should THIS be the priority of a police force, while terrorism, murders, rapes, burgleries, etc. are on the up swing? And finally, you provide some basic human rights to some humans (chest-beating dogmatic people may ignore this final point; but can still consider the rest).

And then, run a counterfactual as well. What if you NOT legalise? Do you stop/restrict prostitution? Nopes. Everyone takes a big yawn (we couldn't care less, it doesn't affect us) and status quo continues.

anilsinghd
March 3rd, 2010, 08:08 PM
Replies in between.

Anil, not sure if you have gone through all the posts. But the "change due to new entrants" part of your equation has been discussed in detail.

I am sure I did , might not be 100% attentive to every word but i did.


First and foremost, legalising has to be understood in context. It doesn't mean that the govt. would now open colleges for teaching prostitution and subsidies would be given to the industry.

Understood. You think I am that naive? :(

Why should females feel incentivized to become prostitutes just because it is legal? That is like saying that there are several females who would be happy to become prostitutes, but don't do it because of the law. If that is where our society is- then it is already in deep sh*t out of which there is no escape route. I don't think that is the case.

Okie , so you got me by neck in trying to think of the other side. I am/was not saying incentivized or that females are eager etc. What I say that it will take out the fear factor, no? The risk/reward(am confused to use this word , don't kill me please if you think it's out of context!) relationship will be skewed , no? And that is also true for males. Knowing they cannot be put to jail or caught by police etc , think the animal instincts will take over , no? Agreed with you and you know I am a fan of axiom of choice , but just the case of whether you want to give that choice to people at all or not? Again I am not proposing this set is/will be huge/big , just thought to bring that up for everyone to notice.

Legalisation doesn't make the industry honorable in front of the society. And prostitutes by choice, anyways, are not deterred by the law in most cases. In the same way as people don't stop taking dowry just because there is a law against it.

Agreed completely.

Legalisation here is akin to regulation. Saying that OK, let's accept it happens in this area, but it should happen ONLY in this area and not in a residential area (All culture-vultures should be happy from this). That NO ONE below a certain age can be forced into it, etc. etc. Plus, once you accept the reality that it exists, you can take various social upliftment steps, including but not limited to- health (prevent spread of AIDS and STDs), education (to prostitutes' kids thus giving them career alternatives), etc. Plus, you take some burden off an over-worked police force, who feel compelled to harass prostitutes sufficiently enough to have a regular income stream from them.

You think the police would stop harassing the prostitutes , would they accept the fact that there's no income coming from that area? My take is that they will still do it and with priority.

I mean, comeon!! Should THIS be the priority of a police force, while terrorism, murders, rapes, burgleries, etc. are on the up swing? And finally, you provide some basic human rights to some humans (chest-beating dogmatic people may ignore this final point; but can still consider the rest).


You can still do that , no? anybody who is willing to be out of it , should be out anyways! Children are children after all, legalisation or NOT, no?

And then, run a counterfactual as well. What if you NOT legalise? Do you stop/restrict prostitution? Nopes. Everyone takes a big yawn (we couldn't care less, it doesn't affect us) and status quo continues.

After presenting that other side and being slightly confused on what would fare well , I would still stand by my Axiom of Choice philosophy , so if you ask me to vote , i would say Yes please , go ahead and legalise/regulate.


Hope that helps.