Obc

[bls31]

OBC WHO ARE THEY

I, a retired Brigadier with a post graduate degree in Physics, son of a District magistrate, with brothers all with post graduate degrees. Sister married to an IPS Officer, who retired as DG, siblings all doing well and at top levels in chosen fields, my own children no less. A second generation out of village, proud of my heritage and background one day suddenly I became, to my horror, an OBC, that too with retrospective effect, even my father and grand father and all down the chain.

The real OBC, as I look back was the high- cast `Brahmin Cook`, proud of his sacred thread , the loin- cloth and the undisputed rule on the kitchen , happy with a salary of couple of rupees That was at Gorakhpur during 1937-38,

Till now I was proud of my status and my background but now I am extremely chary and making all efforts to hide my OBC status. bls31

[VPannu]

OBC WHO ARE THEY

I, a retired Brigadier with a post graduate degree in Physics, son of a District magistrate, with brothers all with post graduate degrees. Sister married to an IPS Officer, who retired as DG, siblings all doing well and at top levels in chosen fields, my own children no less. A second generation out of village, proud of my heritage and background one day suddenly I became, to my horror, an OBC, that too with retrospective effect, even my father and grand father and all down the chain.

The real OBC, as I look back was the high- cast `Brahmin Cook`, proud of his sacred thread , the loin- cloth and the undisputed rule on the kitchen , happy with a salary of couple of rupees That was at Gorakhpur during 1937-38,

Till now I was proud of my status and my background but now I am extremely chary and making all efforts to hide my OBC status. bls31
Sir, when I tease a friend of mine from Delhi, about his OBC status. He jokingly says "Or Bade Chaudhary" :) . But now everybody seems to be in this rat race of becoming backward.

[vijay123]

Uncleji,

You are in creamy layer and therefore can't take advantage under OBC :).


OBC WHO ARE THEY

I, a retired Brigadier with a post graduate degree in Physics, son of a District magistrate, with brothers all with post graduate degrees. Sister married to an IPS Officer, who retired as DG, siblings all doing well and at top levels in chosen fields, my own children no less. A second generation out of village, proud of my heritage and background one day suddenly I became, to my horror, an OBC, that too with retrospective effect, even my father and grand father and all down the chain.

The real OBC, as I look back was the high- cast `Brahmin Cook`, proud of his sacred thread , the loin- cloth and the undisputed rule on the kitchen , happy with a salary of couple of rupees That was at Gorakhpur during 1937-38,

Till now I was proud of my status and my background but now I am extremely chary and making all efforts to hide my OBC status. bls31

[bls31]

Only second generation out of village : other cousins , nephews, nieces though had the same opportunity remained part of the skimmed milk. BLS31

[sidchhikara]

Its called perverse incentive.
I don't blame people who are not well off to be interested in reservations - the game is rigged - you will not get anywhere by doing the right thing.
Its like expecting a Wall Street bank like JP Morgan Chase to not sell toxic derivatives when everybody else is doing it.
Just like Wall Street needs regulation, India needs to get rid of caste based reservation all together.
Help can be provided to economically poor people irrespective of caste.

[bls31]

In total agreement to such abbreviation (OBC and like ) are more of a stigma. BLS 31

[upendersingh]

Sir, when I tease a friend of mine from Delhi, about his OBC status. He jokingly says "Or Bade Chaudhary" :) . But now everybody seems to be in this rat race of becoming backward.


बहुत बढ़िया पन्ने. या ही हकीकत सै. एक तू और एक वो भाई आतिश मोहन, दोनों बहुत मीठे जातक हो ऑस्ट्रेलिया में रहने वाले जाटलैंडर्स में.

[brahmtewatia]

reservation, be on any basis is a curse !

at the same time it is a reality... blame it on our politicians.

agar kisi zaruratmand JAT bhai ka is-se bhala hota hai, then i am proud to be called as outwardly backward caste - JAT (though none in my family nd associated family have reaped any benefits nd dont even need so)

i stay 10,000 kms away from my homeland, does any body care here ?... NO !!!. but i'm pleased that someone in my community is being benefited by my status.

i would also like brahmins to be called as obc's some time later. they also deserve that status. in fact, this is the right of every indian to fight for this status.

[Fateh]

Sir, I am really surperised to read your views on OBC, If a post graduate degree holder, from a family holding many degrees by atlist three generations, a high ranking person s/o high status father, if feels & talks like a totally uneducated chaudhary who has nothing with him except eggo, in that case God saves this community. Sir, are all jats like you, does your caste make you great or small or your work. What to talk about OBC even in SC & ST, THERE ARE MANY WHO ARE & THEIR FAMILY MEMBERS ARE MORE educated, more degree holders & from batter back ground but they always try more benifits for their community. Sir, tell me honestly what is wrong in OBC & what is good in word pandit. It is not the caste, the family background, degree or rank which gives you respect but it is your behaviour & your work which always earns respect for you. Please pardon me for my fronk expression, I really never could thought person like you can have such small thinking on the subject. please go around the jat villages in all states & see the condition, the fight for reservation is not for the children of only Brigadier, who feels great in leaving his village, but the strugle is for villagers, for jats whose condition is detoriating day by day. Sir does a person become great by staying in citiy? Anyway sir, I hope there is no politics in your expression. once again, please excuse me for my expression. with warm regards

[bls31]

I having reached the stage where I, thanks for my father providing me the best of education, where I wonder as to why I should also be called an OBC, just because I am a Jat. Incidentally my uncles with same basic education as my father remained happy where the were, picking up jobs near home so they could come back to spend the night in the village, why did they not make efforts to educate their children the way my father did on his limited salary- who rose from a Kanongo to a District Magistrate, step by step, not because he was an OBC but because of his hard work, dedication to duty, honesty integrity and more importantly pride in himself, and why did their children not go for higher studies even when opportunity was there for taking and means were also there. It is a question of Mind Set, a desire to do well and become some thing and respect for self. Let us not use OBC status as a crutch to hide our lack of effort, qualification skills. In any case I would have never liked my children to have taken advantage of the OBC tag as many better off than me have /or may have taken. Reservation never helped any one; it is education and more importantly Soft Skills which will take one ahead in life. I do not know of kids or if you are even married as on date, but please, my advice, if you would like to have , would be to ensure that thy get the best education possible so that they do not need the OBC status to help them progress in life. Best BLS 31

[Fateh]

With due respect, may I submit that I am post graduate of history, political science & Industrial relations & , personnel management. AlSO graduate OF LAW &member of Bar since last 30 years. My wife is MA B Ed, my daughter is gold medlist of M COM & post graduationin mass com & generalism and stood second in university in post graduate diploma of Business management. She passed CPA in Australia with distinction. My son stood secondin in uni in post graduation in Psychology & post graduate diploma in H R D, BOTH CHILDREN WELL SETTLED, my other details & background may not be less, my forfathers & now I am head of my village, I have repersented my state in national volleybal competion, repersented punjab university in inter uni chempionship, I become college president & first Gen secretory of Haryana students union, I am maha sevak { president} of my gotra khap for last about 30 years, after taking pre mature retirement from Army as Lt col, I ,established a coy where about 4000 people are working happily. I am also doing service to ex servicemen as member state sainik board & as member Animal welfare Board of INDIA, THERE ARE MANY MORE TO WRITE BUT i DONOT WANT TO BOTHER YOU MUCH, I must tell you, my wealth is honesty, hard work, sincerity, dedication, morale courage & sacrifice. I am also against any kind of reservation but when it is there, why cannot be for jats. My dear sir does OBC stops you from working hard, does OBC stops you to apply for general seats, do you think people from OBC are not human beings, do you think, yadavas are less than you in any field today being in OBC. dOES obc STOPS YOU TO GET EDUCATION { DONOT TELL ME IT DEMOTIVATES} WE all know how people go up. You are one of the senior most , a guiding star & respected member of this forum, we all or atlist I follow you sincerely thus your statement or views on OBC can demage the strugle badly. Even if you donot need & donnot like , you shouldnot put breaks to the momentom by expressing adverse views. I also donot need reservation but my community needs, not only economically but politically also we are loser if we remain with so called upper castes. Sir I have lot of education degrees more than what I have written above but I donot consider myself as educated person, please note degree doesnot make a person an educated. Request, please re- think on the point of OBC FOR JATS. wITH WARM REGARDS. SIR, you are welcome to discuss the topic pvt if you want regards

[singhvp]

Respected Brigadier Sahab and Fateh Bhai Sahab,

In fact both of you are right in your respective stances. This issue shrouds a dilemma of "to do or not to do". On the one hand there are people like Brigadier who want to maintain their exalted caste tag and; on the other there are poorer peasants who are eagerly waiting to reap the harvest of reservation. Community is divided on this issue. Ideally, all reservations in the name of cast should be scrapped forthwith. Jats are demading because some other castes have been availing it for decades and some of them have already made it to the creamy layer of society leaving the so called upper castes far behind in the race. If the trend continues there will hardly be any caste left outside the ambit of reservation. This is not at all a healthy trend as the stream of benefits continues to flow unfiltered even to those who have already become rich by virtue of this policy. At the most, reservation can be justified to some extent only for economically weaker sections of society and that too for a certain period.

[bls31]

I am also against any kind of reservation but when it is there, why cannot be for jats. It is a me too syndrome.

Other Backward Class (OBC). How it feels to be called Backward . Question is: are Jats backward in their thinking, in education , financially or have they have been oppressed?

What are the issues that justify the Tag OBC . what are the cost benefits for jats 'at large'.If it is all pervasive, who will ensure that the more affluent , better educated , better placed do not reap the benefits leaving the deserving where they are. BLS31

[Fateh]

YES SIR, Jats are backward in all respect what you have mentioned above, why are you forgeting jats from Rajesthan, J &K, MP etc, please come out of four walls of your family, your background, your degrees and your high status, step on ground of reality, you will realise the real condition of jats. Secondly, tell me honestly, are jats batter than yadav/sunars (soni) in any field. If jats donot deserve reservation than do you think muslims & christians who ruled us for such a long period and enjoyed all legal/elegal benifits in the society, need. Why do you call obc as tag. sir, for your information, word jat is used by many high status people like you, as abuse & to indicate uneducated. Sir, why are we so worried about the system of implementation, we shall talk when we get the hounor of OBC. HAVE YOU NOTICED NOW IN THESE DAYS, THERE ARE SEPERATE SEATS FOR OBC WITHIN THE RESERVED SEATS FOR EX-SERVICEMEN. Not only executive, legislate & judiciary is effected by so called the tags. we have to be practical, we have to walk on ground, we have to see the reality. I agree that there shouldnot be any reservation, but is it happening, is it possible in near future. Thus, if the reservation is going to stay, why jats be deprived of some even very little benifits. I sincerely request to all educated, wellof & experienced jats like you to lead the strugle for reservation. With warm regards

[JKundu]

JATs are becoming morally backward for sure if not otherwise.

1. Have seen a JAT woman poisioning milk of an infant.
2. Have seen a JAT woman having affairs with lot-lot many persons and her husband
alongwith her genetic father & several other ladies of household are fully aware.

Still that husband is not asking for Divorce !! ( Child is above 18 now)

Those ladies are praising( might be false) her to get a note of 500 rupees as in tradition of JAT families to give money to specific relative when meet.

Dum hilati hai 500 ke note ke liye!!

So many more things.....will write later..

[brahmtewatia]

gold gold gold !

salutations to you fateh sir... every word of yours is worth framing !


I am also against any kind of reservation but when it is there, why cannot be for jats. My dear sir does OBC stops you from working hard, does OBC stops you to apply for general seats, do you think people from OBC are not human beings, do you think, yadavas are less than you in any field today being in OBC. dOES obc STOPS YOU TO GET EDUCATION { DONOT TELL ME IT DEMOTIVATES} WE all know how people go up. You are one of the senior most , a guiding star & respected member of this forum, we all or atlist I follow you sincerely thus your statement or views on OBC can demage the strugle badly. Even if you donot need & donnot like , you shouldnot put breaks to the momentom by expressing adverse views. I also donot need reservation but my community needs, not only economically but politically also we are loser if we remain with so called upper castes.


YES SIR, Jats are backward in all respect what you have mentioned above, why are you forgeting jats from Rajesthan, J &K, MP etc, please come out of four walls of your family, your background, your degrees and your high status, step on ground of reality, you will realise the real condition of jats.
...
Why do you call obc as tag. sir, for your information, word jat is used by many high status people like you, as abuse & to indicate uneducated. Sir, why are we so worried about the system of implementation, we shall talk when we get the hounor of OBC. HAVE YOU NOTICED NOW IN THESE DAYS, THERE ARE SEPERATE SEATS FOR OBC WITHIN THE RESERVED SEATS FOR EX-SERVICEMEN. Not only executive, legislate & judiciary is effected by so called the tags. we have to be practical, we have to walk on ground, we have to see the reality. I agree that there shouldnot be any reservation, but is it happening, is it possible in near future. Thus, if the reservation is going to stay, why jats be deprived of some even very little benifits. I sincerely request to all educated, wellof & experienced jats like you to lead the strugle for reservation. With warm regards

[bls31]

My impressions are that of the Jats of western UP, You being at the grass root level are better informed about the Jats of the places you have indicated. There must be other similar pockets where jats need not fall in OBC category and in such case the OBC tag need not be Pan India.

In any case these are my personal feelings and I do not profess to be a spokesman of any organized group for and against the OBC Tag for Jats. And yes I am proud to be a Jat but also disappointed for more reasons than one . bls31

[brahmtewatia]

21 OBC definitions. check out this link >>> http://www.all-acronyms.com/OBC

Officer Basic Course
On-board computer
Optical Bar Camera
Optical Bar Code
On-Band Computer
Ontario Building Code
Octal-to-Binary Conversion
Office Broadband Communication
Office of the Bureau Chief
Officer Billet Code
Officers Basic Course
On Board Checkout
Onboard Blackbody Calibrator
On-Board Controller
Optimum bactericidal concentration
Optional, But Cool
Original Broadway Cast
Originating Basic Call
Outside Back Cover
On-Board Checkout
Other Backward Classes

does any one of above says OBC-JAT ???... Answer = NO !!!

[brahmtewatia]

Organization for Bat Conservation
Outline Business Case (UK government procurement)
Oriental Bank of Commerce (India)
Original Broadway Cast
Oriental Bird Club
Ocean Bottom Cable
Original Birth Certificate
Online Booty Call (website)
On Board Credit (cruise industry)
Obscured by Clouds (Pink Floyd album)
Outer Banks Conservationists
Overseas Basing Commission
Optical Bar Camera
One Button Checkup (Norton Utilities)
Online Business Center
Overseas Briefing Center
Outboard Boating Club
Office of Bar Counsel
Open Bible Church
Out of Band Control
Orange Belt Conference
Onslaught Block Constructed (gaming)
Organic and Biochemistry
Overhead Bridge Crane
Operating Budget Committee
Old Boy's Club
Obligations Ã* Bon de Conversion
Officer Billet Code
On-Orbit Calibrator
Oostzaanse Bridge Club (Amsterdam, Netherlands)
Off-Boresight Compensation
Optical Bench Enclosure (NASA)
Open Birth Certificates (adoption)
Ossa Bene Cubent (Latin: The Bones Rest Well, epigraphy)
Oracle Business Component
Oxford and Bermondsey Club (UK)
Organically Bound Chlorine

its a matter of perception where you associate yourself.

[hemanthooda]

I totally agree with Fateh Sir.Not everone is economically & socially better off in our community like Brig Sir.

Reservation is neccessary for our community specially when land holding are decreasing day by day , what will the youth of our community do....Also being in OBC list , it will help out Jat Brothers to get admission in good institutes....

I will never feel embraced if someone calls me OBC...As Vivek right said it is "Or Bade Chaudhry"...See yadavs how they have benefitted from OBC tag , most of them are educated n doing well....We as a Jatlanders must rise above our personal microscopic views for the larger interest of the community...

Regards
Hemant Hooda

[Fateh]

Sir, I also feel you may not have opportunity to see the reality of our community, because you got birth in govt quarter in house of an emplyee of revnue dept where money & respect comes in tons, after schooling or inter college, you went to IMA, BECAME OFFICER,remained away from society and even after retirement, being Brigadier, remained away from main stream of society thus you may really not be knowing about jats of even up. Secondly I donot understand as to why we are afraid of OBC, IF WE ARE GOLD, THAN WE WILL REMAIN GOLD ONLY, NO TAG WILL MAKE US IRON. Ofcourse, if we keep on living on past, background, false eggo & prestise than certainly go down to a lovest place in the society. Thirdly, if jats are so great than why are you so disappointed, your expression itself shows clearly our place. It is good that these are your personal views but sir, your views when comes to public, these matter lot, thus people like you have to be more careful in their expression on such topics. Any way sir, please pardon me for my expression but it is purely within our family & without any malice or disrespect or competition. with warm regards

[jakharanil]

Or Bade Chaudhry +++
Or bachehuye chamar....
JAT is not BC in UP,HR and Punjab.... bt in Raj+ JAT r really backward class....

Lage raho........

[vijay123]

For those who think that Jats image will get lowered down with OBC tag please answer this question?

What is Jat image today?

- Among Jats: Does NOT matter as Jats will always proud to be Jats no matter whether they are in OBC or General or ST.
- Among Non Jats: They dont think highly of Jats. If you think otherwise then you are wrong. They just think Jats as rude, illiterate, hot headed, illogical, always ready to pick up fight at slight provocation. They already think us as backward no matter whether we get included in OBC or not.

Here we frown upon use of any unparliamentary language but enter a jat house in village and you will hear a gali dhee***, beti***, behan*** and all sorts of dirty words every minute. They are just part of conversation and so normally used without consideration for daughters, sisters and other females around. In fact you would hear females also indulging in using those profanities laced sentences as much as menfolk. Now you would say what this has to do with OBC? Nothing but definitely has to do something what outside world thinks of us.

Coming back to OBC tag other hindu castes follow brahmin, khsatriya, vaisya and shudra system. We are obviously not Brahmins, and we are also not considered khsatriya too. Whether you like it or not this is the truth. What we come under in Vaisya category based on our occupation which is primarily farming. So, what are we going to lose if we come under OBC? I would say NOTHING. People from other caste do not look highly of us and they would not downgrade our rating further once we are included in OBC.

Also these categories OBC, General, SC and ST are all govt created. Do you think if govt thinks tomorrow that dhobis are now well to do and should not be provided the benefit of SC and they move them to General, are others going to treat them equal to other castes included in General?

The untouchability is not based on what govt categorize a caste into but is based on ancient beliefs which has nothing to do with what govt labels a particular caste into. See the Gurjars? Some here said that Gurjars and Jats share their origins and they are almost same but still Gurjars are fighting for ST tag; why?

[sidchhikara]

Third World countries are now called Developing countries.
How about Other Developing Castes - ODC.
Such phrasing is used in America all the time to cover up negativity - I call it reality.
So how about using same euphemistic, manufactured language - we as humans like to be deluded after all.

Car dealerships donot sell used cars - they sell pre-owned cars, some of them even call them pre-loved cars - how about that!
Racists and Nazis say that they are not being racists, they are defending their heritage.
Pakistanis call LeT terrorists Freedom fighters.
Corporations call firing people - organisational restructuring.
Handicapped is called differently abled.
Blind person is called sight impaired, deaf - hearing impaired.
Salary hike is called raise and on the other hand not giving raises in a particular year is called deferred merit increase.

So, ODC should fit right in - all the parties will be satisfied with that term.

[Fateh]

Dear Brother Vijay, you are 100% right. To add one small point, I have noticed till early sixtees, Chamars used to consider a jat closure to them & always prefered over yadav/gujar/mali/rodd etc, but now the impression has been reveressed, thus in the society we are loosing friends/ supporters, which is a great loss in democratic system. These OBC castes have gone closure to sc & st, where as earlier jats were considered elder brothers by them includingcastes of present OBC. oN THE OTHER SIDE, WE NEVER GOT RESPECT, SUPPORT, EQUAL SOCIAL PLACE OR CHEERFUL WELCOME FROM SO CALLED UPPER CASTES. Also we donot match their practical intelligence, canning nature, selfishness, sweet dramatic behaviour etc.

[gaganjat]

Wats the big deal its just OBC. Koi mathe pe sticker laga ke thodi ghumta hai 'backward' ka.

Some people make things larger than life. Agar aap apne aako bacward nahi mante ar bahot mahan samajte ho to jaa ke community ke 2-4 backward logo ki madad karo fir apne aapko 'well to do' samajna.

[JKundu]

Wats the big deal its just OBC. Koi mathe pe sticker laga ke thodi ghumta hai 'backward' ka.

Some people make things larger than life. Agar aap apne aako bacward nahi mante ar bahot mahan samajte ho to jaa ke community ke 2-4 backward logo ki madad karo fir apne aapko 'well to do' samajna.

Hum kyun karein madad ve ke lunj hain ?

Subah uthe he babu ne lath le lena chahiye.....then boy will study ...no reservation is required.

[daivischahal]

Dont worry Brigadier Sir.....no one can declare us backward so easily.........let them try..........they tried in delhi......and results are infront of them.........
these people are just making fools of villagers ........those villagers who know nothing about reservations........
and fateh singh ji........after knowing about your family educational history, only one question came to my mind.......DID YOU OR ANY OF YOUR FAMILY MEMBER EVER TRIED TO EDUCATE THE STUDENTS OF ATLEAST YOUR VILLAGE SO THAT LIKE YOUR CHILDREN, HE/SHE CAN ALSO BECAME A GOLD MEDALIST.......
your forefathers, and now you, are the head of your village but did you ever ask the government to provide well qualified teachers to the government school of your village......
and many more questions like that.......
and this is not applicable to you only......it is applicable for every villager who have a good education background.....
the trend is......GET GOOD EDUCATION >>>THEN>>>GOOD JOB>>>THEN RETIREMENT>>>THEN BACK TO VILLAGE(IN SOME CASES)>>>AND IMPRESS THE VILLAGERS WITH YOUR DEGRESS.....
THATS ALL.......

[daivischahal]

one fellow jaatlander said that we,the jaat, are backward because we use abusive language in our houses.......i want to know how reservation will change this.......
kya obc me aane ke baad hum galiyaan deni band kar denge........
if follow this rule then people belonging to schedule tribes and caste should be the best in spoken skills....
but unfortunately its vice-versa......
THE ONLY SOLUTION IS EDUCATION......
atleast follow this :- EACH ONE TEACH ONE.....
and the best, for those who really care for our community........go to villages and join government school......or open your own education institute that provide quality education to students in village at the least possible money.......forget about profit or business......

[raka]

[QUOTE=daivischahal;244162]Dont worry Brigadier Sir.....no one can declare us backward so easily.........let them try..........they tried in delhi......and results are infront of them.........
these people are just making fools of villagers ........those villagers who know nothing about reservations........
QUOTE]
bhai samjhaaiye k ho s ya reservation ?

[rakeshsehrawat]

bhai samjhaaiye k ho s ya reservation ?
Raka ji ya to mere bhi samajh nahi aayee par suna hai iske mile pache Jat Chamar ho jange
Ar Chamar isne leke JAT ho gaye

[raka]

Raka ji ya to mere bhi samajh nahi aayee par suna hai iske mile pache Jat Chamar ho jange
Ar Chamar isne leke JAT ho gaye
achhaa eb samajh aai ye chamar reservation mile pahle jat the? ;-)

[brahmtewatia]

ahahaha !!! chalo koi na bhaisahab, der aaye durust aaye. baat samjh tae aa gi, par unka ke karein jo... anyway leave it.


achhaa eb samajh aai ye chamar reservation mile pahle jat the? ;-)

[raka]

My impressions are that of the Jats of western UP, You being at the grass root level are better informed about the Jats of the places you have indicated. There must be other similar pockets where jats need not fall in OBC category and in such case the OBC tag need not be Pan India.

In any case these are my personal feelings and I do not profess to be a spokesman of any organized group for and against the OBC Tag for Jats. And yes I am proud to be a Jat but also disappointed for more reasons than one . bls31
sir ji yo gumaan aapne ae s aak aapke balkaa n bhi s ......

[JKundu]

Reservation mil ke ke ho ja ga ? Esteem aur loose karenge JAT.

Naukri vah bhi sarkari to milni nah..

Arr mil bhi gayi to ke...

Sahar mein plot bhi na liya ja....makan to rehan do.

Do what these refugees are doing ......dukaan ke daam 80-80 lakh in rohtak!!
Kille ke daam 2.5- 2.5 crore...kar lo....khap panchayat main baith kein.

Arr Agriculture items pain tein sarkaar ki pakad chudva lyon.
Ek bori gheevoon 10,000 -10,000 ki bikkan lag ja gi.........sarkar ke control jate.

[malikdeepak1]

Ek bori gheevoon 10,000 -10,000 ki bikkan lag ja gi.........sarkar ke control jate.

hmm sahi kah hai bhai. Je kissan gehu ki bori 10 hjaar me becehega baniya tayi, to market me wa bori 20 hjaar me bikegi. Jo log kheti nahi karte aur apni naukri ke sahare ghar-grishthi chala rahe hai, unki to bukha maren ki naubat aa jagi bhai.. Sare Jaat bhi jameen nahi le rhe bhai. kise ke ikka-dukka killa se er wo bichara saher me kite driver-conductor/chaprasi laag ke roji-roti kma rhya se. Wo kit te lyaavega itne pise gehu-gehu len khatir??
par chalo koi na. mar len de un ne. Kise ne to fayda hove-e-ga!

[brahmtewatia]

the highlighted underlined text is absolutely true. to majority in delhi, JAT's are considered as rustic DTC drivers or arrogant ठुल्ला's of delhi police (DP). off-recently, after 90's the trend changed when they started looking JAT's as nouveau rich delhites from delhi's urban villages who's exalted status is because of their riches from rental properties... shahpurjat, munirka, lado sarai, nev sarai, katwariya sarai, chiragh dilli nd many other villages are very good examples.

i've experienced myself, when amongst a local group of delhites as to how they glance at me through their squint eyes... न्यू लखावें हैं अक ज्युकर आठ पाँ का जिनावर देख लिया हो. we are still treated as 2nd class citizen when a local JAT, though very sound financially but can't speak in english... takes his siblings for admission to any pvt. school in delhi.

JAT's in delhi have elevated their standards by leaps and bounds. not because of their OBC status, but because of the education which the newer generation had access to... and all this was possible cos of their newly acquired rich status. the progress in future is going to be multi-fold, which is already apparent... take my words for that.

i would like to see the same status of JAT's in haryana, u.p. nd in rajasthan. they just need a beginning and that can be very much enhanced when one member in a family reaps the benefit from OBC tag... the chain will continue further.


For those who think that Jats image will get lowered down with OBC tag please answer this question?

What is Jat image today?

- Among Jats: Does NOT matter as Jats will always proud to be Jats no matter whether they are in OBC or General or ST.
- Among Non Jats: They dont think highly of Jats. If you think otherwise then you are wrong. They just think Jats as rude, illiterate, hot headed, illogical, always ready to pick up fight at slight provocation. They already think us as backward no matter whether we get included in OBC or not.

[Fateh]

[QUOTE=daivischahal;244164]one fellow jaatlander said that we,the jaat, are backward because we use abusive language in our houses.......i want to know how reservation will change this.......
kya obc me aane ke baad hum galiyaan deni band kar denge........
if follow this rule then people belonging to schedule tribes and caste should be the best in spoken skills....
but unfortunately its vice-versa......
THE ONLY SOLUTION IS EDUCATION......
atleast follow this :- EACH ONE TEACH ONE.....
and the best, for those who really care for our community........go to villages and join government school......or open your own education institute that provide quality education to students in village at the least possible money.......forget about profit or business....

..[ Best method of teaching is by self example, please do it than preach, GIVE YOUR BACKGROUD, so that we can also see what a great child has taken birth in a jat family who is questioning his parents/elders. May I request you the great man, please leave me alone, I have no time, no intention, no interest, on , no capebility, no knowledge, no experience, no education, no position, infact I am nothing infront of you, please donot reply my post, these are not worth for you. If you want me to continue on jat forum, grant me this much please.God may gives you all good qualities of a good jat.

[Fateh]

Dont worry Brigadier Sir.....no one can declare us backward so easily.........let them try..........they tried in delhi......and results are infront of them.........
these people are just making fools of villagers ........those villagers who know nothing about reservations........
and fateh singh ji........after knowing about your family educational history, only one question came to my mind.......DID YOU OR ANY OF YOUR FAMILY MEMBER EVER TRIED TO EDUCATE THE STUDENTS OF ATLEAST YOUR VILLAGE SO THAT LIKE YOUR CHILDREN, HE/SHE CAN ALSO BECAME A GOLD MEDALIST.......
your forefathers, and now you, are the head of your village but did you ever ask the government to provide well qualified teachers to the government school of your village......
and many more questions like that.......
and this is not applicable to you only......it is applicable for every villager who have a good education background.....
the trend is......GET GOOD EDUCATION >>>THEN>>>GOOD JOB>>>THEN RETIREMENT>>>THEN BACK TO VILLAGE(IN SOME CASES)>>>AND IMPRESS THE VILLAGERS WITH YOUR DEGRESS.....
THATS ALL.......

Mr Chahal, I can only say that when one doesnot know the matter & when doesnot understand the subject, one should not oppen his mouth, secondlyit will be batter for you to understand your level & than join such discussions. MR great, please excuse me, my level is very low so I am not in a position to give you any time or answer or reply. please pardon me I donot want to have any further communication with you, no reply of this post. thanks

[daivischahal]

Fateh Singh Ji
Please accept my heartiest apologies if i hurt you or misbehaved......i never meant that.......

[daivischahal]

..[ Best method of teaching is by self example, please do it than preach, GIVE YOUR BACKGROUD, so that we can also see what a great child has taken birth in a jat family who is questioning his parents/elders. May I request you the great man, please leave me alone, I have no time, no intention, no interest, on , no capebility, no knowledge, no experience, no education, no position, infact I am nothing infront of you, please donot reply my post, these are not worth for you. If you want me to continue on jat forum, grant me this much please.God may gives you all good qualities of a good jat.

Fateh Singh Ji
first of all i would like to know why we cannot question our elders........then who will answer our queries......
i did not ask anything unreasonable.....but you are not compelled to answer ........
moreover it is also not possible that a senior or elder will always be true and will take the right decision..............
as far as my background is concerned then i have not much to say or show like you........i am even not a gold medalist and never become the become the president of any university........
i only did my B.Tech from a government college(NIT)......that only with 60%.......and after worked for few time with a private company.......and now i am completly unemployed(just preparing some students, not only jaat, from government schools around my village for Engineering Entrance Exams)........so i dont stand anywhere infront of you......thats it.....
but inspite of this, i have a vision for my community.......i dont want to fool my fellow jaats by taking them in any strikes...........
again it could be possible that i dont have much knowledge about reservation as compared to you, but atleast i undersatnd the consequences of reservation that you have never realized......
so please keep enlightened JAATLAND with your thinking......it need experienced member like you...........who are working for their community.......
I apologize in advance if again i hurt you....and this will be my last reply for you.........so dont worry......you will never face question like this......and keep on writting here.......

[Fateh]

Fateh Singh Ji
Please accept my heartiest apologies if i hurt you or misbehaved......i never meant that.......


O K Thanks, regards

[luccky]

Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent

[luccky]

A person's worth in this world is estimated according to the value they put on themselves. Don't think too much on OBC status of JATs, work hard and conquer world like a real warrior !! and plz dont argue 'Live with integrity, respect other people and follow your heart'


Cheers !!!

[luccky]

Jai Ramji ki !!

[kapdal]

JAT's in delhi have elevated their standards by leaps and bounds. not because of their OBC status, but because of the education which the newer generation had access to... and all this was possible cos of their newly acquired rich status. the progress in future is going to be multi-fold, which is already apparent... take my words for that.

i would like to see the same status of JAT's in haryana, u.p. nd in rajasthan. they just need a beginning and that can be very much enhanced when one member in a family reaps the benefit from OBC tag... the chain will continue further.
[/COLOR][/FONT]

Wrong diagnosis leads to wrong treatment. Jats in Delhi first got the wealth, from land acquisition, from rental income, property dealing, etc. Basically from their ownership of land, but not from agriculture. Pursuit of education followed that wealth in most cases. They want their kids to speak in English, to go the best school in town; as these are considered as status symbols. Here, I am not talking about the few enlightened folks who have always pursued education- you can find such people in every state.

[brahmtewatia]

Wrong diagnosis leads to wrong treatment. Jats in Delhi first got the wealth, from land acquisition, from rental income, property dealing, etc. Basically from their ownership of land, but not from agriculture. Pursuit of education followed that wealth in most cases. They want their kids to speak in English, to go the best school in town; as these are considered as status symbols. Here, I am not talking about the few enlightened folks who have always pursued education- you can find such people in every state.
welcum back kapil !

if i am not mistaken, land acquisition by DDA in delhi of villages tht i mentioned in my previous post (namely shahpurjat, munirka, lado sarai, nev sarai, katwariya sarai, chiragh dilli <<< all south delhi villages) took place in seventies. early seventies or late, i don't know. for an acre of land they hardly got 40,000 - 60,000. they applied for further compensation, some lucky ones got another 5-10k, or may be slightly more. this amount was just peanuts and hardly gave any financial worth, which was eventually spent within no time on other worldly affairs.

come early eighties, in all these villages that i mentioned, you could hardly see a double storeyed house. thing started changing in late eighties and early nineties when house rentals became a very profitable income. almost everybody constructed/renovated their houses to accommodate immigrants from outside states. the returns were manifold. further construction flourished in these villages (residential as well as commercial) and there was no looking back.

"pursuit of education followed wealth in most cases" <<< i also said so, in my previous post (refer below).


JAT's in delhi have elevated their standards by leaps and bounds. not because of their OBC status, but because of the education which the newer generation had access to... and all this was possible cos of their newly acquired rich status. the progress in future is going to be multi-fold, which is already apparent... take my words for that.

they sent their kids to english school not because it's a status symbol, instead they realized the worth of education nd had wherewithal to afford so <<< catch this. and even if these are status symbols in your opinion, what it has to do with your wrong diagnosis or treatment ? i hope you don't mean to say that they shouldn't have done so ?

i talked nd mentioned villages of south delhi. now come to the villages in palam/nazafgarh/nangloi belt... villages like barthal, bijwasan, dabri, mundka, amberhai, kirari, karala etc to mention a few. these villages had properties that was not acquired by DDA and they flourished with the gains by getting into property dealing. remember, this boom started only in late eighties and early nineties. prior to that, they too, hardly had anything at their disposal. in late eighties and early nineties a maruti-800 was a coveted possession. the riches started flowing in abundance and there was no looking back in this belt as well. to any one who has knowledge of changing times in delhi... it goes without mentioning that JAT's of south delhi were better off in terms of riches and more importantly EDUCATION.

... cont

[brahmtewatia]

... cont from prev post

when you talk of few enlightened folks, whose pursuit was education then i quote my example. many thanks to my father who himself being an educationist (retired as principal from delhi's sr. sec school) blessed me with the opportunity to study in one of the best schools in delhi/india. also remember here, these enlightened folks that you talked about were hardly few that you can count on your tips. from my village, i can remember very precisely that there were 2 or 3 boys that had access to english school.

now tell me where is the wrong diagnosis ??? for a moment, i'll forget about the treatment until i hear from you. i would appreciate if you can extend your thoughts further, as i inferred very less from your previous post.

please only reply if you feel my above analysis is wrong or flawed off-course vis-a-vis your previous post.

[bls31]

Very recently, I was having lunch with other delegates during the break, in the seminar proceedings, where I had been invited as an independent resource person.

Sitting opposite me was a young, fair, well built, good looking and smart delegate. On query it transpired that he had been sponsored from Haryana. Mistaking him for a Jat from Haryana, innocently I asked “What are you?” ‘Schedule cast” He replied, a bit diffidently. I should have stopped ten and there with no more direct questioning. However, I continued,”What in Schedule cast?” With no manoeuvring space left “Chamar” he replied honestly. Time stood still for some undefined moments, till I made some feeble efforts to retrieve both of us from the awkward situation that my uncalled for curiosity had placed both of us in.

Let’s now replay the scene: with me as an OBC, situated in a similar situation. “What are you, a Sharma / Mishra?” Deceived by my fair(Jat) complexion, I am asked. “OBC” I respond while trying to hide my cast identity. “Oh, but what? On back-foot I respond a bit hesitatingly, “Jat”.

I don’t like it and I do not deserve the ignominy of being tagged an OBC , I would like to proudly declare, in the first instance itself, that I am a JAT.

I am proud of my heritage and I am proud of being a Jat .At time, I mention it even without being asked, and yes I do enjoy and laugh with others on the innumerable jokes about Jats, reminding the gathering of the riposte to Khat by a Teli with Kohlu by the Jat .

Sadly, I do come across at times, in various Sabhas , Manchcs of Jat gatherings, with narrow thinking, still tied to past, refusing to change with time fellow Jats bls31

[rakeshsehrawat]

Very recently, I was having lunch with other delegates during the break, in the seminar proceedings, where I had been invited as an independent resource person.

Sitting opposite me was a young, fair, well built, good looking and smart delegate. On query it transpired that he had been sponsored from Haryana. Mistaking him for a Jat from Haryana, innocently I asked “What are you?” ‘Schedule cast” He replied, a bit diffidently. I should have stopped ten and there with no more direct questioning. However, I continued,”What in Schedule cast?” With no manoeuvring space left “Chamar” he replied honestly. Time stood still for some undefined moments, till I made some feeble efforts to retrieve both of us from the awkward situation that my uncalled for curiosity had placed both of us in.

Let’s now replay the scene: with me as an OBC, situated in a similar situation. “What are you, a Sharma / Mishra?” Deceived by my fair(Jat) complexion, I am asked. “OBC” I respond while trying to hide my cast identity. “Oh, but what? On back-foot I respond a bit hesitatingly, “Jat”.

I don’t like it and I do not deserve the ignominy of being tagged an OBC , I would like to proudly declare, in the first instance itself, that I am a JAT.

I am proud of my heritage and I am proud of being a Jat .At time, I mention it even without being asked, and yes I do enjoy and laugh with others on the innumerable jokes about Jats, reminding the gathering of the riposte to Khat by a Teli with Kohlu by the Jat .

Sadly, I do come across at times, in various Sabhas , Manchcs of Jat gatherings, with narrow thinking, still tied to past, refusing to change with time fellow Jats bls31

I don't want to say anything here but the situation made me to think in other direction.
let's take first situation and take little more time.
A boy came with well built physique and handsome looks holdin tray of drinks in his hand bearing a name plate on chest "Rambir Dahiya".Got indulged in talks with him i came to know that he is a first class postgraduate who tried in many exams but failed reason very simple.Even after getting much more marks then the fellow delegate sitting on the table with Col.

[rakeshsehrawat]

Ek dost hai mera uska interview tha who happened to be asst. manaager at that time.
Sardar ne saari baat karne ke baad kaha "Yaar mein tuhanu paise ta de danga par designation mein tuhanu Sr. Engineer di hi de sakda haan"(I can give you money you asked for but i will give you designation of Sr. engineer not astt. manager"
His reply was" Sir ji pahe dedo phawe sanu khota keh lo" Give me money you can call me donkey also.
Did any of my fellow members cared about caste of DC or judge of your own district?
Never

Manmohan Sardar to hai par sardaro mein bhi jati hai kisi ne poocha ya socha kabhi?
Aadmi ka pad dekha jata hai aur agar yahi hal raha to jato ko chaprasi ka pad bhi milna mushkil ho jayega.
Mehnat kar yahi nara hai sabka. Kitne jat hin jo shehro mein ehte hain aur jo rehte hain unke pass sadhan hain apne parivar ko palne ke.
Ek gaon mein baitha ek kisan jiske pass 3 beegha jameen hai jisme uske parivar ka gujara mushkil hota hai aur jiske bachhe sarkari school mein jate hain usk kya?
Yahan saare buerocrates paak gaye kyonki aap logo ki haisiyat thee ya aapke parivar walo ko mauka mil gaya ki aapko padha likha sake chahe wo aapki jyada jameen ke karan tha ya aapke pitaji ki naukri ke kaaran (*us time reservation nahi thee na to aaj kise delegate bante mein bhi dekhta)


Ye Reservation unke liye nahi hai jo aaj AC mein baith kar computer ka key board tod rahe hain. Ye us kisan ke liye hai jiska gehu aaj lan mein hai ya mandi mein vyapariyo ki baat dekh raha hi ki wo kab bikega jis se uske bachho ke admission honge aur unki kitabe ayengi.

[brahmtewatia]

Let’s now replay the scene: with me as an OBC, situated in a similar situation. “What are you, a Sharma / Mishra?” Deceived by my fair(Jat) complexion, I am asked. “OBC” I respond while trying to hide my cast identity. “Oh, but what? On back-foot I respond a bit hesitatingly, “Jat”.
brig sir,

that's where your perception lies and that's where imo you are wrong. you are too much obsessed with the ignominious tag of OBC... so much, so that you forgot that you are a JAT first and tagged later.

why don't you proudly say that i am a JAT at the very first instance ?

brig sir, take my words here... the guy across you would not dare to question you again by saying "oh o... so you are an OBC?". you have confessed that you are proud to be a JAT, but you are failing to take cognizance of the fact as to what makes you feel proud to be a JAT.


I don’t like it and I do not deserve the ignominy of being tagged an OBC , I would like to proudly declare, in the first instance itself, that I am a JAT.


sir, what stops you from saying JAT at the 1st instance ? again, as reciprocated above... its your obsession with the ignominious tag of OBC that you are failing to accept... totally oblivious of the benefits your brethren will accrue. don't you feel that is so selfish of you ?.

[malikdeepak1]

I am proud of my heritage and I am proud of being a Jat .At time, I mention it even without being asked, and yes I do enjoy and laugh with others on the innumerable jokes about Jats, reminding the gathering of the riposte to Khat by a Teli with Kohlu by the Jat .

Sadly, I do come across at times, in various Sabhas , Manchcs of Jat gatherings, with narrow thinking, still tied to past, refusing to change with time fellow Jats bls31


Brig Sir, everyone is proud to be a Jat here. I can't see any reason behind feeling hesitant or ashamed in taking reservation for the needy. Getting reservation in OBC will help the children of those, who really are backward in terms of their financial status. Gaon me kitne hi Jat aise hai jinke pass Khaane ke liye gehu ugaane ke liye 1 khet bhi nahi hai poora. Dusro ke kheto me hath batwa kar apne khane ka jugaad karte hai wo. Don't you think they need this reservation more than the SCs who are sitting at various top positions, courtsey to reservation? Farm bharna pade se jab kise naukri ka to General ki fees 500 Rs er SC/ST 50 Rs. Jo admi do tam ki roti ka jugad nahi kar pata wo 500 rupiye kit te devega?

Aur recruitment exams me lower aur upper cut off me jyada difference nahi hota sir. Agar reservation ki help se 4-5 number ka fayda milta hai to isme kya burayi hai? Kise gareeb aadmi ka ghar suthri dhaal bus jaga us naukri te. Jo log saadhan-sampann hai unko to waise bhi nahi milega reservation ka fayda OBC me, kyuki wo creamy layer me aa jayenge. Par jisko bhot jarurat hai usko to milne do!!
Jat will always be Jat irrespective of the place or culture he resides with. So please don't mix reservation with emotions/feelings. Please think in terms of practical scenarios that our fellow village people are facing before opposing reservation.

[jitendershooda]

Very recently, I was having lunch with other delegates during the break, in the seminar proceedings, where I had been invited as an independent resource person.

Sitting opposite me was a young, fair, well built, good looking and smart delegate. On query it transpired that he had been sponsored from Haryana. Mistaking him for a Jat from Haryana, innocently I asked “What are you?” ‘Schedule cast” He replied, a bit diffidently. I should have stopped ten and there with no more direct questioning. However, I continued,”What in Schedule cast?” With no manoeuvring space left “Chamar” he replied honestly. Time stood still for some undefined moments, till I made some feeble efforts to retrieve both of us from the awkward situation that my uncalled for curiosity had placed both of us in.

Jitender - Why such casteist conversation in a seminar, Sir? It would have been much better to discuss the things regarding the seminar itself. Why to investigate about caste and creed when we are broad minded? Isnt this shows some kind of narrow mindedness somewhere in our minds?

Present generation doesn't have time for this kind of discrimination, rather they are fighting for their livelihood which is termed as 'Narrow Mindedness'. What does being a Jat and Chamar signifies for? Jat peon and Chamar DC where and how to compare?

This reservation was the BAHANA the politicians got because our elders were of this mindset of Chamar and Jat. (Not only we but these brahmins). You still carry that? Please leave it ... we dont want our future generations to be punished more hardly than us. Chaps come out of Caste thing when it comes out for fake comparisons, fake honourship, fake pride etc etc. Rather think of caste when it comes to improve them like by OBC which is the best diplomatic step in present scenerio.

Let’s now replay the scene: with me as an OBC, situated in a similar situation. “What are you, a Sharma / Mishra?” Deceived by my fair(Jat) complexion, I am asked. “OBC” I respond while trying to hide my cast identity. “Oh, but what? On back-foot I respond a bit hesitatingly, “Jat”.

Jitender - We should come out of this illusioned situation. No color of skin is linked to one caste, section. One of our JL member has been married to a 'Chamar' girl and believe me she is too much pretty. I came to know very late about this thing. She is a doctor by profession. Not only she, her siblings are also in the same profession. YOU KNOW WHY? Her parents also in good govt jobs and have taken advantage of so called 'SC' status at every level ... be it their jobs, their entry level criteria, their promotions, their wards eligibility criteria, their jobs etc etc. And two generations reservation benefits upto that level are sufficient enough to deveive you by their complexion and built. Where are we living sir? Come along with me and I will make you see wards of Jats who are malnutritioned and due to berojgari their so called face value is NULL as compared to wards of DC Gurgaon Mr. Kataria (Chamar - linked to Fool Chand maulana). Chamars are the most benefit getters under SC umbrella.

I don’t like it and I do not deserve the ignominy of being tagged an OBC , I would like to proudly declare, in the first instance itself, that I am a JAT.

Jitender - I am pretty sure you will. But we cant generalise the same thing for all of our fellow Jats.

I am proud of my heritage and I am proud of being a Jat .At time, I mention it even without being asked, and yes I do enjoy and laugh with others on the innumerable jokes about Jats, reminding the gathering of the riposte to Khat by a Teli with Kohlu by the Jat .

Jitender - I never feel much proud in these fake casteist jokes. I feel much proud to find Jats in jobs and doing good rather than being in news for wrong reasons.

A joke in which we proudly anounce Jat to be everything and rest nothing yields nothing to me.

I dont believe in castes. To me every person is equally respectable whether he belongs to any caste, creed, religion, state, profession etc. But I feel problem when I am discriminated whenever I am going to fill in some form for enterance, job, promotion etc etc. WHY I cant compete equally among all candidates in terms of qualification criteria, marks obtained to be in final list, form fees, no of seats. Though the guy sitting next to me have access to all kind of resources I have and may be more than me.


Sadly, I do come across at times, in various Sabhas , Manchcs of Jat gatherings, with narrow thinking, still tied to past, refusing to change with time fellow Jats

Jitender - Its we have to decide which one is narrow thinking and which not, Sir.
bls31

Please find my comments inline, Sir.

[brahmtewatia]

एडमिशन, किताबें, कापीआं तो पाछे आएँगी... पहल्यां उस जाट नै अपनी छोरी का ब्याह ना कराना जो सयानी हो गई है ?

the education then takes back seat... a JAT goes back into time by a decade or a generation.


Ye Reservation unke liye nahi hai jo aaj AC mein baith kar computer ka key board tod rahe hain. Ye us kisan ke liye hai jiska gehu aaj lan mein hai ya mandi mein vyapariyo ki baat dekh raha hi ki wo kab bikega jis se uske bachho ke admission honge aur unki kitabe ayengi.

[raka]

Fateh Singh Ji
first of all i would like to know why we cannot question our elders........then who will answer our queries......
i did not ask anything unreasonable.....but you are not compelled to answer ........
moreover it is also not possible that a senior or elder will always be true and will take the right decision..............
as far as my background is concerned then i have not much to say or show like you........i am even not a gold medalist and never become the become the president of any university........
i only did my B.Tech from a government college(NIT)......that only with 60%.......and after worked for few time with a private company.......and now i am completly unemployed(just preparing some students, not only jaat, from government schools around my village for Engineering Entrance Exams)........so i dont stand anywhere infront of you......thats it.....
but inspite of this, i have a vision for my community.......i dont want to fool my fellow jaats by taking them in any strikes...........
again it could be possible that i dont have much knowledge about reservation as compared to you, but atleast i undersatnd the consequences of reservation that you have never realized......
so please keep enlightened JAATLAND with your thinking......it need experienced member like you...........who are working for their community.......
I apologize in advance if again i hurt you....and this will be my last reply for you.........so dont worry......you will never face question like this......and keep on writting here.......
chhote bhai haamne bhi karwa de realizeeee.......... k bera dokhaa ho ryaa ho mahre ta .......maine pahle bhi kai baar buuj li par taine gyaaan diyaa koni .....haam ochhe ho jyaange kshtripana chala jaaga ya dalil chhod ke aur bata .....

[dkumars]

Ek dost hai mera uska interview tha who happened to be asst. manaager at that time.
Sardar ne saari baat karne ke baad kaha "Yaar mein tuhanu paise ta de danga par designation mein tuhanu Sr. Engineer di hi de sakda haan"(I can give you money you asked for but i will give you designation of Sr. engineer not astt. manager"
His reply was" Sir ji pahe dedo phawe sanu khota keh lo" Give me money you can call me donkey also.
Did any of my fellow members cared about caste of DC or judge of your own district?
Never

Manmohan Sardar to hai par sardaro mein bhi jati hai kisi ne poocha ya socha kabhi?
Aadmi ka pad dekha jata hai aur agar yahi hal raha to jato ko chaprasi ka pad bhi milna mushkil ho jayega.
Mehnat kar yahi nara hai sabka. Kitne jat hin jo shehro mein ehte hain aur jo rehte hain unke pass sadhan hain apne parivar ko palne ke.
Ek gaon mein baitha ek kisan jiske pass 3 beegha jameen hai jisme uske parivar ka gujara mushkil hota hai aur jiske bachhe sarkari school mein jate hain usk kya?
Yahan saare buerocrates paak gaye kyonki aap logo ki haisiyat thee ya aapke parivar walo ko mauka mil gaya ki aapko padha likha sake chahe wo aapki jyada jameen ke karan tha ya aapke pitaji ki naukri ke kaaran (*us time reservation nahi thee na to aaj kise delegate bante mein bhi dekhta)


Ye Reservation unke liye nahi hai jo aaj AC mein baith kar computer ka key board tod rahe hain. Ye us kisan ke liye hai jiska gehu aaj lan mein hai ya mandi mein vyapariyo ki baat dekh raha hi ki wo kab bikega jis se uske bachho ke admission honge aur unki kitabe ayengi.


Sachhai chaap di chorre ... Nice post ... Second ur thoughts.

[dkumars]

Very recently, I was having lunch with other delegates during the break, in the seminar proceedings, where I had been invited as an independent resource person.

Sitting opposite me was a young, fair, well built, good looking and smart delegate. On query it transpired that he had been sponsored from Haryana. Mistaking him for a Jat from Haryana, innocently I asked “What are you?” ‘Schedule cast” He replied, a bit diffidently. I should have stopped ten and there with no more direct questioning. However, I continued,”What in Schedule cast?” With no manoeuvring space left “Chamar” he replied honestly. Time stood still for some undefined moments, till I made some feeble efforts to retrieve both of us from the awkward situation that my uncalled for curiosity had placed both of us in.

Jitender - Why such casteist conversation in a seminar, Sir? It would have been much better to discuss the things regarding the seminar itself. Why to investigate about caste and creed when we are broad minded? Isnt this shows some kind of narrow mindedness somewhere in our minds?

Present generation doesn't have time for this kind of discrimination, rather they are fighting for their livelihood which is termed as 'Narrow Mindedness'. What does being a Jat and Chamar signifies for? Jat peon and Chamar DC where and how to compare?

This reservation was the BAHANA the politicians got because our elders were of this mindset of Chamar and Jat. (Not only we but these brahmins). You still carry that? Please leave it ... we dont want our future generations to be punished more hardly than us. Chaps come out of Caste thing when it comes out for fake comparisons, fake honourship, fake pride etc etc. Rather think of caste when it comes to improve them like by OBC which is the best diplomatic step in present scenerio.

Let’s now replay the scene: with me as an OBC, situated in a similar situation. “What are you, a Sharma / Mishra?” Deceived by my fair(Jat) complexion, I am asked. “OBC” I respond while trying to hide my cast identity. “Oh, but what? On back-foot I respond a bit hesitatingly, “Jat”.

Jitender - We should come out of this illusioned situation. No color of skin is linked to one caste, section. One of our JL member has been married to a 'Chamar' girl and believe me she is too much pretty. I came to know very late about this thing. She is a doctor by profession. Not only she, her siblings are also in the same profession. YOU KNOW WHY? Her parents also in good govt jobs and have taken advantage of so called 'SC' status at every level ... be it their jobs, their entry level criteria, their promotions, their wards eligibility criteria, their jobs etc etc. And two generations reservation benefits upto that level are sufficient enough to deveive you by their complexion and built. Where are we living sir? Come along with me and I will make you see wards of Jats who are malnutritioned and due to berojgari their so called face value is NULL as compared to wards of DC Gurgaon Mr. Kataria (Chamar - linked to Fool Chand maulana). Chamars are the most benefit getters under SC umbrella.

I don’t like it and I do not deserve the ignominy of being tagged an OBC , I would like to proudly declare, in the first instance itself, that I am a JAT.

Jitender - I am pretty sure you will. But we cant generalise the same thing for all of our fellow Jats.

I am proud of my heritage and I am proud of being a Jat .At time, I mention it even without being asked, and yes I do enjoy and laugh with others on the innumerable jokes about Jats, reminding the gathering of the riposte to Khat by a Teli with Kohlu by the Jat .

Jitender - I never feel much proud in these fake casteist jokes. I feel much proud to find Jats in jobs and doing good rather than being in news for wrong reasons.

A joke in which we proudly anounce Jat to be everything and rest nothing yields nothing to me.

I dont believe in castes. To me every person is equally respectable whether he belongs to any caste, creed, religion, state, profession etc. But I feel problem when I am discriminated whenever I am going to fill in some form for enterance, job, promotion etc etc. WHY I cant compete equally among all candidates in terms of qualification criteria, marks obtained to be in final list, form fees, no of seats. Though the guy sitting next to me have access to all kind of resources I have and may be more than me.


Sadly, I do come across at times, in various Sabhas , Manchcs of Jat gatherings, with narrow thinking, still tied to past, refusing to change with time fellow Jats

Jitender - Its we have to decide which one is narrow thinking and which not, Sir.
bls31


Please find my comments inline, Sir.


All ur questions are valid and substantial. If I will write here then will merely copy this post of urs.

[Fateh]

I am very happy & proud to read views of our youg brothrs, they are much more matured, intelligent & practical than we oldies, if we cannot contribute some thing positive & useful, we elders should not ask our youngers to look on the wrong direction. Brigadier sir these boys seems to me 200% right, we must learn from them. I must tell you, even jats from UP donot get the OBC status & even if jats of one state become obc, you will automatically become obc or will you change your caste in that case. Sir, the tree which gives fruits has lot of flexibility where as KIKAR (BABOOL) gives no fruits & no flexity, you can see yourself which tree is batter, similarly a person with good education, good qualities, batter capabilities & a batter personality is always like fruit tree. I would like to remind you again that a person cannot become great or small, good or bad by his caste, colour, bearing but he is always judged & catagrised by his deeds/work. Sir, please donot worry you will remain jat & you will be tagged with majority of jats. regards

[bls31]

Do not be surprised , if it will be the children of the rich and privileged, who have studied in good schools , colleges and whose parents have influence due to their position,who will drive the benefits of the OBC Tag and Not those of the needy. bls31

[bls31]

Sir, please donot worry you will remain jat & you will be tagged with majority of jats.
I agree with you and that is the sad part . BLS 31

[VirJ]

Do not be surprised , if it will be the children of the rich and privileged, who have studied in good schools , colleges and whose parents have influence due to their position,who will drive the benefits of the OBC Tag and Not those of the needy. bls31

Lakhsman Sir, I could be wrong but won't the creamy layer be deprived of the OBC reservation benifit. The below is from Wiki.

The Supreme Court has said the benefit of reservation should not be given to OBC children (SCs, STs, and the unreserved are exempt now) of constitutional functionaries such as the president, judges of the Supreme Court and high courts, employees of central and state bureaucracies above a certain level, public sector employees, members of the armed forces (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armed_forces) and paramilitary (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paramilitary) personnel above the rank of colonel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonel), lawyers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawyer), chartered accountants, doctors (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physician), financial and management consultants, engineers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineer), film artists, and authors. OBC children belonging to any family that earns a total gross annual income( from sources other than salary and agricultural land) of Rs. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_rupee) 4.5 lakh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakh) (450 thousand) (the income ceiling for creamy layer raised from 2.5 lakhs to 4.5 lakhs in October 2008) belong to the creamy layer. (US$ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_dollar) 5,500 in 1993 when the office memo was accepted) and so are also excluded from being categorised as "socially and educationally backward" regardless of their social/educational backwardness

This should apply to SC and ST too. (Just to clarify this is my opinion and not quoted from the above source)

Though you are right to an extent that the poorest will not get the real benefit. Its basically the middle layer who will enjoy the real benefit given that the creamy layer is excluded from it.

[rakeshsehrawat]

Do not be surprised , if it will be the children of the rich and privileged, who have studied in good schools , colleges and whose parents have influence due to their position,who will drive the benefits of the OBC Tag and Not those of the needy. bls31

At least they have to pay less fees for forms, books and dress material. Fees babat to na sochna padega us garib aadmi ne

[ritu]

so well explained......status ki baat bharre hue pet karre se.bhookha pet ne kaam er do roti chahiye.....if obc tag helps some ppl in our jat community in this world of competition i really do not mind being tagged by obc.at least this is the least i can do for the less privileged ones from my community by sharing this tag with them.......
I don't want to say anything here but the situation made me to think in other direction.
let's take first situation and take little more time.
A boy came with well built physique and handsome looks holdin tray of drinks in his hand bearing a name plate on chest "Rambir Dahiya".Got indulged in talks with him i came to know that he is a first class postgraduate who tried in many exams but failed reason very simple.Even after getting much more marks then the fellow delegate sitting on the table with Col.

[upendersingh]

नु तो यहाँ अधिकतर ने कह दिया कि हम जाट हैं और सबसे घटिया हैं और हमें अपने आपको जाट कहते हुए शर्म आने लगी है, लेकिन तर्क कोई नहीं देता कि कैसे घटिया हैं. मैं जाट जाति को सबसे घटिया जाति मानने के लिए तैयार हूँ, लेकिन अपने दिलोदिमाग को क्या तर्क दूं?
कैसे इस दुनिया में कोई अन्य जाति जाटों से बेहतर है?

[VirJ]

welcome Back man

[upendersingh]

welcome Back man

धन्यवाद विपिन भाई, मैं जेल काटकर आया हूँ...हा...हा...हा...

[VirJ]

इब न जाईये जेल में. जाटलैंड सुन्नी होजे हे तेरे बिना

[brahmtewatia]

Do not be surprised , if it will be the children of the rich and privileged, who have studied in good schools , colleges and whose parents have influence due to their position,who will drive the benefits of the OBC Tag and Not those of the needy. bls31


Lakhsman Sir, I could be wrong but won't the creamy layer be deprived of the OBC reservation benifit. The below is from Wiki.

brig sir,

no offense please, but this itself tell volumes of how hollow your understanding is on the subject matter.

[brahmtewatia]

even if the poorest reap 25% of the benefit from OBC... it's still a very big satisfaction to me.


Though you are right to an extent that the poorest will not get the real benefit. Its basically the middle layer who will enjoy the real benefit given that the creamy layer is excluded from it.

[VirJ]

even if the poorest reap 25% of the benefit from OBC... it's still a very big satisfaction to me.

Yes Whatever they get 5% or 25% is better than nothing. Its good even for the middle layer(conductors, bus drivers, clerks, peons, people who have 4-5 kilas or other middle class salaried people) who will get the benefit. This would help some of their kids to become part of the "creamy layer"

[Fateh]

Sir, please donot worry you will remain jat & you will be tagged with majority of jats.
I agree with you and that is the sad part . BLS 31

Sir, is this an excuse for not becoming obc, once we get obc status than we can discuss the implementation part, why are we worried now. and sir, even if some creami children get benifit, what goes from our pocket, are not they jats. sir please make a note in your personal diary in bold lettrs, if this obc status is granted to jats, I am sure, people who are opposing today, they will be in forfront to take benifits of obc. SIR, IF YOU REMEMBER, IN IMA, WE WERE TAUGHT TO BEHAVE & WORK LIKE AN OFFICER, WHY?, OUR ELDERS USE to say that elder must act & behave like a elder, why?, Because it is your work & behaviour which earn you respect & not your degrees, rank, family background, caste or any other such tags. secondly, when there is a vaccancy reserved for ex service man, donot jat exmen apply for the reserved vaccancy, when there is reservation for women in jobs/elected posts why jats ladies apply or contest such reserved seats. Thirdly, when human being got into this form or came to this world, was there any caste, rank, status etc. I hope all were equal than why are you calling yourself superior. My dear sir, origen of caste system itself was based on work, thus if we work like jats even while in obc, we will remain jats otherwise it may be reversed. We should not live false life/ chaudharship but work like chaudhary, progress like chaudhary, behave like chaudhary, should take all possible benifits from Govt & take lead in life. (Education, Educated Behaviour & unity are key factors)

[sanjaymalik]

Do not be surprised , if it will be the children of the rich and privileged, who have studied in good schools , colleges and whose parents have influence due to their position,who will drive the benefits of the OBC Tag and Not those of the needy. bls31
rightly said reservation never reached to those peoples who really deserved for that.the benefit of reservation mostly carved by those who are already in a better position.you can saw in case of SC's and ST's those who are living in village have a little improvement but the real benefits goes to already established.

[singhvp]

even if the poorest reap 25% of the benefit from OBC... it's still a very big satisfaction to me.

I understand your designs Braham. You are trying your best to bring us - the Haryanavi Jats - at par with you. So far, we had a little sense of satisfaction that we have an exalted status in society. Moreover, we used to take a dig on Jat friends and relatives from Delhi and used to pinch them. After reservation, we will be deprived of that privilege. But, I am keeping my opinion reserve on this subject sitting on the fence and watching the stormy exchange of posts.

[singhvp]

Though the reservation might bring relief economically to some needy, it will certainly lower the prestige and self-esteem of the Jat community. But, majority seems to be in favour. Therefore, academic disagreement from a negligible section of community will hardly matter. As there is a precedent (Delhi and Rajasthan) it seems likely that the governments of Haryana and UP will agree sooner or later. Good luck to those who are trying their best to accomplish this task.

[ravinderjeet]

धन्यवाद विपिन भाई, मैं जेल काटकर आया हूँ...हा...हा...हा...
rolaa paayaa kisse aue ne er jail kisse aur ki hoi.

[brahmtewatia]

singh sahab, i've no pre-conceived notions or designs... mine is just a call for the community.

highlighted red answered here >>> दिल को खुश करने के लिए ग़ालिब ये ख़याल अच्छा है I
highlighted blue answered here >>> दिल को खुश करने के लिए ग़ालिब वो ख़याल भी अच्छा था


I understand your designs Braham. You are trying your best to bring us - the Haryanavi Jats - at par with you. So far, we had a little sense of satisfaction that we have an exalted status in society. Moreover, we used to take a dig on Jat friends and relatives from Delhi and used to pinch them. After reservation, we will be deprived of that privilege. But, I am keeping my opinion reserve on this subject sitting on the fence and watching the stormy exchange of posts.

[vijay]

Rajasthan became the first state in India where Jats included in the 'reservation layer' with an OBC tag. Since last 15 years or so, there is no major change in the status in terms of economical, social and administration levels. The people who are already influensive are harvesting the benefits while needy ones are still having the bad times. Some people can say that 15 years is very less time but that's an excuse as we can se people around us who are in reservation layer since last 60+ years and still have the same life.

The Indian political and administrative system is the main reason behind this. The people who gets benefit of it would be getting it forever while the ignorant would be pushed back again and again. So, its better to change the system or educate people to get out of this reservation theory for the goodness. Changing system seems a far fetched possibility in India so the other option seems feasible. The moron leaders don't have courage and will power to cease all type of reservation and design a new useful pattern to uplift the financially backward people ( instead of communities ).

It hardly matters that whether i am in favor of reservation or against it but it is a fact that reservation hardly going to bring any change in the status of Jat people except an OBC Tag.

[yudhvirmor]

Rajasthan became the first state in India where Jats included in the 'reservation layer' with an OBC tag. Since last 15 years or so, there is no major change in the status in terms of economical, social and administration levels. The people who are already influensive are harvesting the benefits while needy ones are still having the bad times. Some people can say that 15 years is very less time but that's an excuse as we can se people around us who are in reservation layer since last 60+ years and still have the same life.

The Indian political and administrative system is the main reason behind this. The people who gets benefit of it would be getting it forever while the ignorant would be pushed back again and again. So, its better to change the system or educate people to get out of this reservation theory for the goodness. Changing system seems a far fetched possibility in India so the other option seems feasible. The moron leaders don't have courage and will power to cease all type of reservation and design a new useful pattern to uplift the financially backward people ( instead of communities ).

It hardly matters that whether i am in favor of reservation or against it but it is a fact that reservation hardly going to bring any change in the status of Jat people except an OBC Tag.

There is no statistical information available for any caste in terms of their social uplift because of reservation. Reservation is a curse of people as society told some poor fellow that you are not normal and you can't be equal to upper caste. Majority of congress leaders were Britishers with brown skin tone. They are still ruling the masses with same policy of DIVIDE AND RULE

[Fateh]

Today majority of population has reservation, in democratic system, it is batter to stay with majority. our equals like yadav, mali, gujjar,rod etc are with reservation. Divide & rule policy is applicable in both the situations. It is inferiority complex, if we consider poor, yes economically may be & there is nothing wrong in that tag.I always said that any kind of reservation is harmful, but since it is there & going to stay, spreading even beyond govt jobs & aducation dept & our equally placed castes are getting the benifits, why not jats. I requested our brothers earlier also that let us work to abolish this system of reservation, but it appears to majority of us that second option may not be easy & possible in near future, thus there is no harm to join the reserved population. BROTHERS MAY I SHARE WITH YOU AGAIN THAT NO TAG CAN LOVER YOUR RESPECT & PRESTISE. SO CALLED LOWER CASTE PEOPLE ARE ALSO HUMAN BEING, INFACT BATTER. pLEASE TAKE YOUR MIND BACK IN THE HISTORY, the so called upper castes (Brahaman, rajputs & Bania or business classes), have always exploited & tortured the so called lower castes. In India, most of hynious crimes were done by Brahaman, directly or indirectly, they only divided the society in various castes, they only created the false impression of of upper/lower caste. In short, these contractors of religion & business castes are main enemies of society not only in our nation but in the entire world, Should we associate our caste with such upper castes & when we also suffered equally with so called lower castes. Do good work, be good human being learn more & more and behave as per learning, your prestise, respect & place in the society will be much batter, also be united, love & respect each other & help each other. regards

[raka]

Rajasthan became the first state in India where Jats included in the 'reservation layer' with an OBC tag. Since last 15 years or so, there is no major change in the status in terms of economical, social and administration levels. The people who are already influensive are harvesting the benefits while needy ones are still having the bad times. Some people can say that 15 years is very less time but that's an excuse as we can se people around us who are in reservation layer since last 60+ years and still have the same life.

The Indian political and administrative system is the main reason behind this. The people who gets benefit of it would be getting it forever while the ignorant would be pushed back again and again. So, its better to change the system or educate people to get out of this reservation theory for the goodness. Changing system seems a far fetched possibility in India so the other option seems feasible. The moron leaders don't have courage and will power to cease all type of reservation and design a new useful pattern to uplift the financially backward people ( instead of communities ).

It hardly matters that whether i am in favor of reservation or against it but it is a fact that reservation hardly going to bring any change in the status of Jat people except an OBC Tag.
koi n bhai ye jo benefit le rahe s ye bhi aapne ae bhai s aarr jo rah gaye unne bhi miljaga sabr raakh , yohe rolla s jat ka pura dharmatma paaka jaa s ....................
bhai wa kahya kare n aak aakhir aali baat pahle kadhe nahi kahni chahiye nahi to fer kitte ka koni rah aadmi ...to bhai pahle le lyaa sa fer aakhir aali baat karange ..............

[bls31]

Earlier I had started a thread ‘What are Jats?’ A cast, community group or as according to my late father, the name is a derivative of Jattha by which possibly they were known in distance past,

What ever Jats may be, with some common traits, they do have major intra as well inter regional differences of characteristics, attitude and way of life.
There are also differences in economic status and social emancipation from region to region. I do not have much idea of Rajasthan Jats, but both Haryan and UP Jats have different views and perceptions of each other. Who is superior to whom? Even in UP, the river Jumna divides the community in the perception of each other.

These differences manifest clearly from the divergent views and opinions being expressed on the Issue of .'Who is OBC' bls31.

[brahmtewatia]

won't say much over here nd not to offend JAT's on either side of the river, but i found this piece of argument totally senseless, esp the last highlighted line on the subject matter. would appreciate if brig sir can elaborate it a bit further (if he feel like)... quoting some valid reasons vis-a-vis the subject only nd not to digress more over the issue.


Earlier I had started a thread ‘What are Jats?’ A cast, community group or as according to my late father, the name is a derivative of Jattha by which possibly they were known in distance past,

What ever Jats may be, with some common traits, they do have major intra as well inter regional differences of characteristics, attitude and way of life.
There are also differences in economic status and social emancipation from region to region. I do not have much idea of Rajasthan Jats, but both Haryan and UP Jats have different views and perceptions of each other. Who is superior to whom? Even in UP, the river Jumna divides the community in the perception of each other.

These differences manifest clearly from the divergent views and opinions being expressed on the Issue of .'Who is OBC' bls31.

[bls31]

I have nothing more to say , there has been good amount of discussion on the subject by Jat friends, both for and against the OBC. bls31

[brahmtewatia]

demand for OBC has nothing to do with JAT's from any particular place or region or state in india. imo it has nothing to do with traits, economic status, region wise superiority/inferiority and/or educational standards among JAT's... its simply "the call of the day" so that our future generation see the better light of new dawn.

make a call to abandon reservation in totality. if you can't do that, then please do not pose any hindrance to JAT's demand for OBC standard, or else the future generation will never forgive us.

[Fateh]

Earlier I had started a thread ‘What are Jats?’ A cast, community group or as according to my late father, the name is a derivative of Jattha by which possibly they were known in distance past,

What ever Jats may be, with some common traits, they do have major intra as well inter regional differences of characteristics, attitude and way of life.
There are also differences in economic status and social emancipation from region to region. I do not have much idea of Rajasthan Jats, but both Haryan and UP Jats have different views and perceptions of each other. Who is superior to whom? Even in UP, the river Jumna divides the community in the perception of each other.

These differences manifest clearly from the divergent views and opinions being expressed on the Issue of .'Who is OBC' bls31.

Sir, please, read again, what have you written, it shows you are only Brigadier, you are neither, jat nor community friend. This forum is to educate & unite jats, but you are very nicely, quitely & claverly dividing jats. I followed your this post properly & from beggening of the post I am surprised on you & your background and your knowledge about community & your views, after your above write up, it has become clear to me that either you are not jat or you are working for some other communities to break the unity of jats and derail the efforts for reservation, as mrs gupta is doing for pakies. My dear sir, did not you realise as to what are you writing and what effect will your writing have on the community and specially the new generation. Had I been Administrator on this forum, certaily, people like you wouldnot have been allowed to continue. Keeping respect to your age, May I request you to stop this canning type anty community operation or leave this forum yourself. OH God, please save this jat community from this kind of duplicate, high status & false degree holders. MY Dear Brigadier, it shows very clearly that you are not even worth human being what to talk about obc. were you not taught in Army that it is obligatory & compulsory to reply the salute/regards given by your subordinates, take example of this post only, I submitted my regards to you after each of my post but you never expressed any love or regards. It appears to me that you are making use of this forum some time for your business of selling books and some time to fulfil the agenda of some castes or some political party. I must tell you very fronkly, You are not at all respecting your age, your defence experiance and jat family where you got birth if at all, Brigadier & my respected jat brothers I am exreemely sorry for my above expression, but it is not possible for me to tolrate any effort against our unity. sorry, sorry and sorry.

[dkumars]

Sir, please, read again, what have you written, it shows you are only Brigadier, you are neither, jat nor community friend. This forum is to educate & unite jats, but you are very nicely, quitely & claverly dividing jats. I followed your this post properly & from beggening of the post I am surprised on you & your background and your knowledge about community & your views, after your above write up, it has become clear to me that either you are not jat or you are working for some other communities to break the unity of jats and derail the efforts for reservation, as mrs gupta is doing for pakies. My dear sir, did not you realise as to what are you writing and what effect will your writing have on the community and specially the new generation. Had I been Administrator on this forum, certaily, people like you wouldnot have been allowed to continue. Keeping respect to your age, May I request you to stop this canning type anty community operation or leave this forum yourself. OH God, please save this jat community from this kind of duplicate, high status & false degree holders. MY Dear Brigadier, it shows very clearly that you are not even worth human being what to talk about obc. were you not taught in Army that it is obligatory & compulsory to reply the salute/regards given by your subordinates, take example of this post only, I submitted my regards to you after each of my post but you never expressed any love or regards. It appears to me that you are making use of this forum some time for your business of selling books and some time to fulfil the agenda of some castes or some political party. I must tell you very fronkly, You are not at all respecting your age, your defence experiance and jat family where you got birth if at all, Brigadier & my respected jat brothers I am exreemely sorry for my above expression, but it is not possible for me to tolrate any effort against our unity. sorry, sorry and sorry.

You are very much elder to me so I do not want to retort the same way what u expressed above for an elder, sane and a person who deserves respect.
He might be wrong or differ in perception but certainly doesn't deserve such slanderous words.

I also follow his posts. I also differ in opinion many a times but can never think even to use such a defamatory language. Also, the new generation is not so fickle minded that anyone can brainwash it. The new generation is smart and wise enough to take and reject views.

We expect some patience and toleration from our elders and wish if the same they can impart to the younger but its very unfortunate that the elders itself set such mean examples.

Same as you, I also could not stop myself expressing all this. I beg a pardon for this which is of no use after writing all this ... but still I hope u will understand and if possible, try to eat ur words.

[ritu]

fateh ji its totally all rt to disagree with someone.i totally understand your frustration on uncle jis quote.but do you really have to be this much harsh,rude and disrespectful
Sir, please, read again, what have you written, it shows you are only Brigadier, you are neither, jat nor community friend. This forum is to educate & unite jats, but you are very nicely, quitely & claverly dividing jats. I followed your this post properly & from beggening of the post I am surprised on you & your background and your knowledge about community & your views, after your above write up, it has become clear to me that either you are not jat or you are working for some other communities to break the unity of jats and derail the efforts for reservation, as mrs gupta is doing for pakies. My dear sir, did not you realise as to what are you writing and what effect will your writing have on the community and specially the new generation. Had I been Administrator on this forum, certaily, people like you wouldnot have been allowed to continue. Keeping respect to your age, May I request you to stop this canning type anty community operation or leave this forum yourself. OH God, please save this jat community from this kind of duplicate, high status & false degree holders. MY Dear Brigadier, it shows very clearly that you are not even worth human being what to talk about obc. were you not taught in Army that it is obligatory & compulsory to reply the salute/regards given by your subordinates, take example of this post only, I submitted my regards to you after each of my post but you never expressed any love or regards. It appears to me that you are making use of this forum some time for your business of selling books and some time to fulfil the agenda of some castes or some political party. I must tell you very fronkly, You are not at all respecting your age, your defence experiance and jat family where you got birth if at all, Brigadier & my respected jat brothers I am exreemely sorry for my above expression, but it is not possible for me to tolrate any effort against our unity. sorry, sorry and sorry.

[ritu]

sir i never expected such a biased comment from yourside .it realy hurts someone like me who is related to both the regions.as an elder of the community your comments should be targeting towards uniting not dividing it.
Earlier I had started a thread ‘What are Jats?’ A cast, community group or as according to my late father, the name is a derivative of Jattha by which possibly they were known in distance past,

What ever Jats may be, with some common traits, they do have major intra as well inter regional differences of characteristics, attitude and way of life.
There are also differences in economic status and social emancipation from region to region. I do not have much idea of Rajasthan Jats, but both Haryan and UP Jats have different views and perceptions of each other. Who is superior to whom? Even in UP, the river Jumna divides the community in the perception of each other.

These differences manifest clearly from the divergent views and opinions being expressed on the Issue of .'Who is OBC' bls31.

[brahmtewatia]

with due respect fateh sir,

i also agree to dev's view that your previous post to brig sir was totally uncalled for. lets please respect an individual's viewpoint and expression of thoughts. i would appreciate if you can withdraw your post, imo it would be a nice gesture and respect to brig sir and this portal JATland, which belongs to all of us.

[Samarkadian]

Sir, please, read again, what have you written, it shows you are only Brigadier, you are neither, jat nor community friend. This forum is to educate & unite jats, but you are very nicely, quitely & claverly dividing jats. I followed your this post properly & from beggening of the post I am surprised on you & your background and your knowledge about community & your views, after your above write up, it has become clear to me that either you are not jat or you are working for some other communities to break the unity of jats and derail the efforts for reservation, as mrs gupta is doing for pakies. My dear sir, did not you realise as to what are you writing and what effect will your writing have on the community and specially the new generation. Had I been Administrator on this forum, certaily, people like you wouldnot have been allowed to continue. Keeping respect to your age, May I request you to stop this canning type anty community operation or leave this forum yourself. OH God, please save this jat community from this kind of duplicate, high status & false degree holders. MY Dear Brigadier, it shows very clearly that you are not even worth human being what to talk about obc. were you not taught in Army that it is obligatory & compulsory to reply the salute/regards given by your subordinates, take example of this post only, I submitted my regards to you after each of my post but you never expressed any love or regards. It appears to me that you are making use of this forum some time for your business of selling books and some time to fulfil the agenda of some castes or some political party. I must tell you very fronkly, You are not at all respecting your age, your defence experiance and jat family where you got birth if at all, Brigadier & my respected jat brothers I am exreemely sorry for my above expression, but it is not possible for me to tolrate any effort against our unity. sorry, sorry and sorry.

Fatah Singh Ji,

Quoting your own post number 45 to infer that how much it is easy to preach. It is surely but practising it requires character strength which is irrespective of age.


My dear Brothers, please excuse me for comments, after the discussion started on the topic, very soon we started commenting on each other rather contributing to the real issue & it is happening on most of the topics. we should avoide this commenting on each other & put our efforts on the real issue. regards

Are you issuing the certificates with the stamp 'The real jat' to whosoever agrees with your views?

Did your expression full of frustation bring any glory of unity to jat ?

Doesn't the divide exist in different geographical areas of jats? It does.

If you support reservation then its your own perorgative. No one has forced you. But also does it give your any right to what you wrote above who isn't interested in your belief.?

For example 100 people of the same status as of Brig Sir here endorses the same views, would you go to declare them non-jats?

And in last, reservation for Haryana Jats is never going to happen.

[singhvp]

Shri Fateh Singh's reply to Brigadier was not in good taste. Every member has a right to express his/her opinion on any subject the way he/she perceives the things. As Samar has also observed, there is definitely a regional divide among Jats and the fact cannot be negated. Brigadier Baliyan has rightly pointed out that there is economic divide which is a reality. It will not be an exaggeration, if I point out another divide i.e. divide between khaps; bigger khaps and smaller khaps. There are so many divides and unity at this moment is a farce. The way Jats behave so egoistically, snobbishly, so rudely and lock horn with each other on this small community site is a glaring example of disintegration. Having said that, I fully support those who talk of Jat unity and appreciate their efforts. Let us hope for the better.

[Fateh]

Fatah Singh Ji,

Quoting your own post number 45 to infer that how much it is easy to preach. It is surely but practising it requires character strength which is irrespective of age.



Are you issuing the certificates with the stamp 'The real jat' to whosoever agrees with your views?

Did your expression full of frustation bring any glory of unity to jat ?

Doesn't the divide exist in different geographical areas of jats? It does.

If you support reservation then its your own perorgative. No one has forced you. But also does it give your any right to what you wrote above who isn't interested in your belief.?

For example 100 people of the same status as of Brig Sir here endorses the same views, would you go to declare them non-jats?

And in last, reservation for Haryana Jats is never going to happen.


My dear he went personal by indirectly telling jats from HARYANA INFERIOR, who gave him authority to give such certificate, why such an elderly person divide the community. WEATHER hARYANA JATS GET RESERVATION OR NOT , DOESNOT MATTER AND i NEVER SAID THAT THEY WILL GET,CERTAINLY THE COMMUNITY WHICH HAS BROTHERS LIKE ME, CANNOT DESERVE ANY BENIFIT FROM GOVT,

[Fateh]

with due respect fateh sir,

i also agree to dev's view that your previous post to brig sir was totally uncalled for. lets please respect an individual's viewpoint and expression of thoughts. i would appreciate if you can withdraw your post, imo it would be a nice gesture and respect to brig sir and this portal JATland, which belongs to all of us.



bROTHER, HOW CAN SUCH A ELDERLY & SENIOR PERSON CAN SAY THAT SO & SO JAT IS INFERIOR, IS he a SUPERIOR JAT, i ALWAYS RESPECTED HIM, HAS HE GAVE ANY EFFECTIon, LOVE OR RESPECT BACK, i AM AGAIN SORRY AND i WITHDRAW MY POST & ALL REMARKS, THE ADMINISTRATOR MAY DO THE NEEDFUL. BUT brigadier should also withdraw his remarks against Haryana jats, regards

[bls31]

It seems there at are two types of Jats . The Blue Blooded , whose views should prevail, either you are with me or you are against me, have license to promulgate their dictates for others to meekly follow, authorized to use harsh language and pass derogatory comments on those dare hold divergent views and the Non Jats like me and the tribe with similar or independent views.

Not withstanding the above I still prefer to remain a JATwho in the perception of some is a
NON JAT

I think enough venom has drenched this thread and time to terminate it over due. BLS 31

[vijay]

It may be a point of debate that whether any sort of discrimination was needed with respect to the topic we are discussing but i don't think that Brigadier's post is offending or suggesting someone as superior or inferior. I don't agree that brigadier have said anything wrong aganist anyone specific.

If we talk about discrmination or diference in point of views then yes it is always there among the jats from different regions. The Jats from Rajasthan, Punjab, Haryana and UP have some differences in language, customs, traditions, social structure and so on. Even Jats from same state have some differences. You will find so many differences in jats from Western and eastern Haryana. Laungane is totally differenet and so is the culture and traditions. Is stating that obvious means division among us ?

Jats of Rajasthan speaks different language, so does that Haryanvi and UP Jats and this language changes again in Punjab. Is stating that can be considered as dividing us?

Even family members have people with different mindset and stating that never falls into the category of dividing the people.


Some people need to grow up and should come out of their preceptions and self assumptions. While some need basic guidelines about how to discuss the issues on a public portal.

[Fateh]

It may be a point of debate that whether any sort of discrimination was needed with respect to the topic we are discussing but i don't think that Brigadier's post is offending or suggesting someone as superior or inferior. I don't agree that brigadier have said anything wrong aganist anyone specific.

If we talk about discrmination or diference in point of views then yes it is always there among the jats from different regions. The Jats from Rajasthan, Punjab, Haryana and UP have some differences in language, customs, traditions, social structure and so on. Even Jats from same state have some differences. You will find so many differences in jats from Western and eastern Haryana. Laungane is totally differenet and so is the culture and traditions. Is stating that obvious means division among us ?

Jats of Rajasthan speaks different language, so does that Haryanvi and UP Jats and this language changes again in Punjab. Is stating that can be considered as dividing us?

Even family members have people with different mindset and stating that never falls into the category of dividing the people.


Some people need to grow up and should come out of their preceptions and self assumptions. While some need basic guidelines about how to discuss the issues on a public portal.



Vijay, if you read his post in question, carefully, you can see the fact., Now you see, even if Iwas wrong, I felt sorry, withdrew my post & words, but you this superior jat niether felt sorry for his part, nor he accepted my appology and on top of all, again he is there with sercastic words, sorry for wasting your time, regards

[Fateh]

Earlier I had started a thread ‘What are Jats?’ A cast, community group or as according to my late father, the name is a derivative of Jattha by which possibly they were known in distance past,

What ever Jats may be, with some common traits, they do have major intra as well inter regional differences of characteristics, attitude and way of life.
There are also differences in economic status and social emancipation from region to region. I do not have much idea of Rajasthan Jats, but both Haryan and UP Jats have different views and perceptions of each other. Who is superior to whom? Even in UP, the river Jumna divides the community in the perception of each other.

These differences manifest clearly from the divergent views and opinions being expressed on the Issue of .'Who is OBC' bls31.

mY DEAR bRIGADIER, I will be very happy being inferior jat & OBC, THANKS

[vijay]

Vijay, if you read his post in question, carefully, you can see the fact., Now you see, even if Iwas wrong, I felt sorry, withdrew my post & words, but you this superior jat niether felt sorry for his part, nor he accepted my appology and on top of all, again he is there with sercastic words, sorry for wasting your time, regards

Fateh Sir,

I have read Brigadier's Post where he talked about some differences among jats from different regions. It's not about dividing jats and neither it is any sort of supermacy theory. It's just about the few differences among Jats from different regions and that's obvious. We all know about it.

Its nice gesture from your side that you withdrawn you post and lets preceed further with respect to the topic we were discussing. I think that's why we are here. :o

Regards

[Fateh]

It seems there at are two types of Jats . The Blue Blooded , whose views should prevail, either you are with me or you are against me, have license to promulgate their dictates for others to meekly follow, authorized to use harsh language and pass derogatory comments on those dare hold divergent views and the Non Jats like me and the tribe with similar or independent views.

Not withstanding the above I still prefer to remain a JATwho in the perception of some is a
NON JAT

I think enough venom has drenched this thread and time to terminate it over due. BLS 31

mY DEAR brigadier, again you are sercastic & not straight, any way I have realised the depth, the level, the effection, the concern for the community, so there is no point of wasting time of superior jats, be happy, I shall not discuss your post infuture, but for God sake donot do drama of jat welwisher, you still want to discuss any topic , welcome privately, I am already feeling bad on spoiling taste of every body, though, you donot have desency of returning regards but I shall follow teaching of my family & Army and extend my warm regards.

[brahmtewatia]

my prakash(it) views...

the issue of OBC/reservation has always been very sensitive amongst us, right from the day one when it came on fore. i remember my initial stance on the matter when i was new to JL nd was unaware of the nuances. i locked horn with anil dalal nd the things went really ugly. almost every time, same has happened with other members as well, this thread being no exception.

i got my lesson nd i'm pretty sure, anil too gained out of it in some way or the other. we now enjoy a very healthy relationship among ourselves to the extent that we have shared 40 pages of VM's (x10 posts/page) and lots of PM messages between us.

an individual introspection is required by every body who came into limelight on this thread... i guess, not a big thing, if you can honestly comprehend the responses to an individual's post from other members.

lets do it, its no harm in admitting our own follies... not for anyone's sake, but at least for our own conscience. i'm sure we all will have our answers. let's stop this blame game nd proceed further.

[Fateh]

my prakash(it) views...

the issue of OBC/reservation has always been very sensitive amongst us, right from the day one when it came on fore. i remember my initial stance on the matter when i was new to JL nd was unaware of the nuances. i locked horn with anil dalal nd the things went really ugly. almost every time, same has happened with other members as well, this thread being no exception.

i got my lesson nd i'm pretty sure, anil too gained out of it in some way or the other. we now enjoy a very healthy relationship among ourselves to the extent that we have shared 40 pages of VM's (x10 posts/page) and lots of PM messages between us.

an individual introspection is required by every body who came into limelight on this thread... i guess, not a big thing, if you can honestly comprehend the responses to an individual's post from other members.

lets do it, its no harm in admitting our own follies... not for anyone's sake, but at least for our own conscience. i'm sure we all will have our answers. let's stop this blame game nd proceed further.


Brahm, I agree with you and you have seen above, I already felt sorry, withdrew my post & words, but what is response from him, I do realise & know well, what is expressed by you, but Brother such maturity is applicable to both sides, tELL ME HONESTLY, THE WAY HE STARTED THIS THREAD WHITH SHOWING OF HIS RANK, DEGREES, STATUS OF FATHER & FAMILY BACKGROUND, WAS IT REQUIREd. Secondly, had such expressions from an uneducated person, I wouldnot have felt so bad. You can again see all his & my posts on the subject, I talked straight with ful respect to him, where as he is sercastic. My dear Brother, read again his post in question & see the meaning of his last line, also when I realised my mistak, appologised & withdrew my post and words, was it correct on his part, to ignore my realisation & appology and again cameup with sercastic expression. Though, it is my mistake, I shouldnot have reacted so soon and in harse words but dear, it is he who initiated the trouble & manged a insult to me where, many youngesters bounced on me & questioned me in all short of manner, I am feeling that he has managed this insult & bad name to me, but still i being inferior jat , being little younger, being colonel, being son of an uneducated parents & being from village, I say sorry to the Brigadier, beg his forgiveness & PROMISE FOR BATTER EXPRESSION IN FUTURE. WITH WARM REGARDS

[dkumars]

Brahm, I agree with you and you have seen above, I already felt sorry, withdrew my post & words, but what is response from him, I do realise & know well, what is expressed by you, but Brother such maturity is applicable to both sides, tELL ME HONESTLY, THE WAY HE STARTED THIS THREAD WHITH SHOWING OF HIS RANK, DEGREES, STATUS OF FATHER & FAMILY BACKGROUND, WAS IT REQUIREd. Secondly, had such expressions from an uneducated person, I wouldnot have felt so bad. You can again see all his & my posts on the subject, I talked straight with ful respect to him, where as he is sercastic. My dear Brother, read again his post in question & see the meaning of his last line, also when I realised my mistak, appologised & withdrew my post and words, was it correct on his part ignore my realisation & appology and again cameup with sercastic expression. Though, it is my mistake, I shouldnot have reacted so soon and in harse words but dear, it is he who initiated the trouble & manged a insult to me where, many youngesters bounced on me & questioned me in all short of manner, I am feeling that he has managed this insult & bad name to me, but still i being inferior jat , being little younger, being colonel, being son of an uneducated parents & being from village, I say sorry to the Brigadier, beg his forgiveness & PROMISE FOR BATTER EXPRESSION IN FUTURE. WITH WARM REGARDS

Bhai saahb, you did a great job indeed. I really appreciate that.
You know, it needs a lot of courage to accept a mistake and only brave ppl can do that. It doesn't depend upon the class, status and education. Trust me it needs real guts to ask for a sorry. And I am sure that you would not even expect something from other parties. Let them do the way they wish.
Again, a big round of applause for you.

[brahmtewatia]

fateh sir... though very less in maturity, compared to many on this portal nd with due respect to all, i reiterate
v
v
v

an individual introspection is required by every body who came into limelight on this thread... i guess, not a big thing, if you can honestly comprehend the responses to an individual's post from other members.

lets do it, its no harm in admitting our own follies... not for anyone's sake, but at least for our own conscience. i'm sure we all will have our answers. let's stop this blame game nd proceed further.

[VirJ]

My dear Brother, read again his post in question & see the meaning of his last line, also when I realised my mistak, appologised & withdrew my post and words, was it correct on his part ignore my realisation & appology and again cameup with sercastic expression. Though, it is my mistake, I shouldnot have reacted so soon and in harse words but dear, it is he who initiated the trouble & manged a insult to me where, many youngesters bounced on me & questioned me in all short of manner, I am feeling that he has managed this insult & bad name to me, but still i being inferior jat , being little younger, being colonel, being son of an uneducated parents & being from village, I say sorry to the Brigadier, beg his forgiveness & PROMISE FOR BATTER EXPRESSION IN FUTURE. WITH WARM REGARDS

Fateh Singh Ji,

I didnt want to jump in and never thought I would but I think you are taking this too seriously ( Dont repent too much. We all have had emotional outburts) . I have read many of your posts and never found anything rude before this post. Most of them were educative. Dont worry too much about this moral police. You said sorry and that finish it. Dont worry too much about what people write. Often this moral police break their own codes.

One more thing if you are giving respect/regards to someone doesnt mean they have to give it back to you.

[annch]

Our Bickering Community for reservation!!!!!

OBC WHO ARE THEY

[Fateh]

Our Bickering Community for reservation!!!!!

Beti I have not understood your meaning, if you compare individually in context of community, Brigadier stand no where, a small example, I am heading my gotra khap for more than last 30 years, I am member of Animal welfare board of India, I am member Rajya Sainik Board of Haryana since last 8 years, Iam head of my village since 88, I had been voice president jat samaj at national level, I got many jat boys enrolled in various services & still doing my best. I got many serious cases settled of our community, I am every day spending some time towards unity & education of jats, kisans, by the way Snce childhood, I am member kisan union, even while in service, I delivered many lecture for kisan, can superior jat do it. I am fully aware how people get higher ranks. Any way beta let me know meaning of your post so that a obc jat can reply doubts of superior jats. with lots of effection.

[Fateh]

Fateh Singh Ji,

I didnt want to jump in and never thought I would but I think you are taking this too seriously ( Dont repent too much. We all have had emotional outburts) . I have read many of your posts and never found anything rude before this post. Most of them were educative. Dont worry too much about this moral police. You said sorry and that finish it. Dont worry too much about what people write. Often this moral police break their own codes.

One more thing if you are giving respect/regards to someone doesnt mean they have to give it back to you.

Brother, thanks, but my problem is that I can tolrate any serious frontal attack, but back stebbing cannot be tolrated. Any way Brother, I shall try my best to learn maximum from this unfortunate happening. regards

[annch]

Fateh Sir, my sincere apologies. My post was not meant to be offensive and was not directed at anyone. With due regards for your work towards our community, let me rephrase- OBC= Our Bickering Community, reservation or no-reservation....since we are always bickering...:).....

[Fateh]

fateh sir... though very less in maturity, compared to many on this portal nd with due respect to all, i reiterate
v
v
v

Brother, I am sorry to perlong, but couldnot help it, I am unable to tolrate mischief of any body & that is the reason, I suffered in life at the hands of chamchas, duplicates & greate beings. regards

[shailendra]

.................................

[Fateh]

Anjoo, no issue at all, thanks, regards

[bls31]

I always believed that no fruitful discussion can take place unless both the pros and con of an issue are addressed.

I started the thread expressing my personal views on the subject of OBC, addressing those who were interested in the topic. It was not an one to one, as being perceived and reacted to by some holding different views.

I have my views: others are welcome to hold there’s it is obvious that there are many who hold identical views and many who do not subscribe to my views..

Unfortunately In the process I have been subjected to uncalfied harshest diatribe and painted in all possible dark colours, even my back ground and family and my late father who was considered as an icon in the region , village and community was not spared .

The reference to my father, associating him with ill-gotten wealth, has been more hurting an reason that I m posting this

‘..come out of four walls of your family, your background, your degrees and your high status,’

.’You are not at all respecting your age, your defence experiance and jat family where you got birth if at all,’

‘If a post graduate degree holder, from a family holding many degrees by atlist three generations, a high ranking person s/o high status father, if feels & talks like a totally uneducated chaudhary who has nothing with him except eggo, in that case God saves this community.’

‘.you got birth in govt quarter in house of an emplyee of revnue dept where money & respect comes in tons’,

Even my birth in the community and authenticity of cast has been challenged

‘you are neither, jat nor community friend. This forum is to educate & unite jats, but you are very nicely, quitely & claverly dividing jats’

‘it has become clear to me that either you are not jat or you are working for some other communities to break the unity of jats and derail the efforts for reservation.

Even the new generation’s ability to understand what is good for them has been questioned, as they are likely to get brain washed by my malicious posts

‘did not you realise as to what are you writing and what effect will your writing have on the community and specially the new generation.

If I am such a bad influence on the community why does not the administrator strike me off from the blog.

. ‘Had I been Administrator on this forum, certaily, people like you wouldnot have been allowed to continue’

Even my training in Army has been questioned

‘were you not taught in Army that it is obligatory & compulsory to reply the salute/regards given by your subordinates,’

Also I have misguided the youngsters

‘it is he who initiated the trouble & manged a insult to me where, many youngesters bounced on me & questioned me in all short of manne’

.

.’if you compare individually in context of community, Brigadier stand no where’

And Yes, I Agree to above. No Questions here. Now, especially on entering the decade of eighty, I do have no aspirations or desire for some exalted status either in the community or any where else.

I have always avoided getting involved in discussion on religion and politics. It appears that even expressing divergent views on community affairs is also taboo.

The Administrator is at liberty to expel me from the blog, if even more than one member feels that my writings have been damaging to the community interests. It is called Black balling. Bls31

[rakeshsehrawat]

I met with a vendor who's owner of a company and doing fine in business and his son is in ninth class. During our conversation we talked about family. After sometime i got to know one thing that is common for us. We had argument with with our fathers on almost same grounds.We concluded the thing like There is time difference between us and our fathers their thinking was different and ours is different and might be we will find same thing between us and our sons.
Father will never understand this time difference.
After reading passage from a senior member came to same conclusion that there is time difference but time had not changed that much that we forgot to respect our elders. My sincere apologies to you sir if i offended you. But my favor for OBC quota for poor jat farmer is still same i want it not for me or my family members but for my brothers who are sweating in sun while i am typing.
Regards
Rakesh

[Fateh]

Every body has heart to feel good or bad, like some, nobody has special teder heart, people have noticed & highlited nicely, though true but not properly expressed lines but why people forget lot of good words putted respectfully. what about calling us inferior, obc, why one is forgetting, that he has forced the blue blooded , uncultured jat into a corner, it is really not at all correct on the people to put Dalda Ghee into fire again inspite of my accepting mistake, feeling sorry & begging pardon, anyway,

Brigadier, if youR son behaves the way I behaved, feels sorry & beg your pardon, what will you do? and that also on first mistake, I am also like your son, kindly take decision like a father, it will be acceptable to me. SIR, I AM SORRY, SORRY, AND SORRY. PLEASE PARDON ME, PARDON & PARDON ME. THIS IS STRAIGHT FROM HEART OF A SIMPLE JAT, YOUR YOUNGER, YOUR OWN BLOOD GOOD OR BAD BUT YOURS. COL FATEH

[jagmohan]

Dear All,

We are like this only. And that is exactly the reason why we can never carry out a meaningful debate on any issue. An old saying is very apt here; two is company, three is crowd and four is a mob. But we believe in; ek Jat Jat, do mauj, teen company and char fauj. I would also like to draw worthy member’s attention to a very old thread about qualities that Jats have or don’t have. Some very important points were discussed there. Sorry, I can’t find the thread.

I may be less educated than other worthy members but I have never been able to understand as to why we get personal at the drop of a hat. There is absolutely no tolerance for other person’s point of view. Why do we make the other person feel like a criminal if we don’t agree to his point of view? Is it so difficult to listen to others point of view that we start commenting on their family, background and what not?

What is the use of having 20 post graduate degrees when an individual can’t tolerate other person’s views, comments, barbs or innuendoes? Our parents underwent hell to be able to give us education and here we are having egos as big as a mountain. It is better to be uneducated and respectful to other’s opinion than being a ‘Know All’ and then behave immaturely. I have been a member of this forum since 2003 and I can’t remember even a single incident when I was disrespectful to any member; elder or younger in besides the point. A real man must enjoy being pitted against those who are better than him. The real test of a person is how you come across to those who are less able than you. “I did this and that� has very little effect in a sane argument. The fact remains that everyone does what he can, depending on the circumstances he finds himself in. I have seen millionaires behave like paupers and paupers give away whatever little they have.

No, I will not make the comment that “because of such incidents, so and so has left this site and gone�. But what kind of an example we are setting by such putrid bickering? As it is we aren’t liked by any other community and then we behave in this manner. Let liberty not be used to become uncivilized.

Regards,

JS Malik

[bls31]

Dear Col ,

This is the only time I am addressing you directly, my earlier posts were addressed to Jats at large.

You have brought the father and son issue . I worshiped my father for what he was and the character and values in life we acquired watching him , otherwise I would not have responded the way I did.

I value your views and you have right to them . as I have to mine.

I have no ill feeling towards you or any one else, as a matter of fact I appreciate the passion with which you hold you convictions. Let bygone be bygone , let us work for the batterment of the community.together, in which ever way we can.

I don't think we should work on the father- son relationship, possibly brother to brother would be more appropriate.

Wishing you all the best in your endeavor.

To make it more personal and intimate instead of bls , I sign off by my name , Lakshman.

[Fateh]

Sir thank you very much, I am relieved, corrected & educated. I can assure you , you may not find me wanted in future. regards